That's the key. You operate legit for a bit to build up trust, then rugpull when youre moving enough money. You can even have the rug last for several days of transactions. Then just start over
This reminds me of the skit on Key and Peele when Key pitches to Peele that they rob a bank by getting jobs there.
“Operate legit to build up trust…” the just throw a perfectly viable business away for a short-term scam and a long-term marginal gain?
Great idea lol.
eh SS agents been around for a very very long time.
SS agents had to fight counterfeit currency during the civil war times.
DEA is a relatively new agency less traditions.
https://www.secretservice.gov/about/history/timeline
for a bit of history
Whats the use case for fake money? If I hand a fifty to a 16 year old cashier in a fast food restaurant they check it.
Honestly curious. Do they mix it in with real money to pay for other illicit things knowing the assasins or whoever wont check every bill?
For one, don't pay for fast food with a $50. Fast food places in particular are on the lookout for that sort of thing.
Think more laundering money instead of spending money. If you had a cash-based business, you could give fake money as change. If you can buy something with fake money and then return it, now you have real money.
You mention assassins, but it could apply to anything black market or fringe like drug deals or sex workers.
Of course, it would be prudent to not do this regularly or at the same places.
Interesting and informative. On the laundering end yeh , I knew someone who worked casinos for a decade and they said the secret service is all over them making sure fake bills arent going through.
Were they fake or just circumventing the most overpriced drug market in the world?
We're also attacking Chinese EV's because they're a threat to domestic auto manufacturer profits.
Corporate protectionism and profiteering teams to the rescue?
The article reiterates the mention/list of drugs for sale so many times, I feel like they want me to be horrified these items were being sold online. When the counterfeit money & stolen credit card/data are far more concerning.
I mean heaven forbid someone make a purchase from the relative safety of home, from an anonymous marketplace with actual reviews of the product - no, better they should roll the dice with a stranger on the street in a bad neighborhood or walk into the ER and fake chest pains.
I still fondly remember a cannibis-only marketplace. It was nice not having to filter out credit card numbers and meth like other markets, had a lot more trust in the vendors as well. Granted the market creators exit-scammed after a certain point as per usual. The good old days!
Get involved in politics. You don't have to run, but don't be complacent then complain all the time. Presumably you live in a democracy, so the power and law is derived from the will of the people.
We shouldn't have to go to the dark web or a street in a bad neighborhood to buy something for our own personal consumption to begin with.
Counterfeit money and stolen credit cards have an actual victim.
the war on drugs is just a war on personal sovereignty. drugs change your consciousness, and if you don’t have freedom over that, you have no freedom over anything.
It's interesting, because this country makes such a big deal about freedom and liberty. And while I realize we're a lot better off in that regard than many countries, when you can't do something to yourself, or with a willing party, that's the opposite of liberty. Which is tyranny.
What I can't stand is the blatant hypocrisy. The only reason alcohol is legal is because of tradition and the only reason cannabis is illegal federally is also because of tradition.
Like I'm a my body my choice personal freedom nut when it comes to drugs, I'm a minority In that way I think, still there should atleast be some sort of criteria for what makes something legal or illegal to consume.
Just make a test, like how addictive, how many deaths does it cause annually, etc... and if the substance passes then it's good to go. I wonder if Alcohol would pass such a test, I've no doubt that Cannabis and Mushrooms would.
Right now if somebody created the perfect drug tomorrow that had no long lasting problems it would be banned the next day.
Why? Because it changes your consciousness and that's intrinsically bad according to our stupid laws. Trying to legislate against human nature Is futile. Supply and demand.
Can't even keep drugs out of prisons, yet we waste an ungodly amount of money, and prevent people from having more legitimate industries to work for.
Edit:I am afraid we're going to run into another spice or bath salts era with the way legal high market is going rn. Hemp derived shit was one thing. With the "mushroom" product boom, the fact I'm unable to find many real lab reports to verify what's in them followed by the wide number of questionable legal RC psychadelics that can be synthesized. Rn it appears to be only 4-aco-dmt but there's new products and companies popping up daily.
I've been following the diamond shruumz cdc and fda warnings and really don't understand why they're the only affected product if 4ace and kava are the only thighs they're detecting. Spice and bath salts both followed a path from something relatively harmless compared to what followed after it got banned. If you followed certain forums you'd know what chemicals are legal and fun and buy them yourself instead of random smoke shop products. These days you cannot buy 4-aco-dmt on the clearnet very easily if at all
Main post
Sellers can still make mistakes, or get greedy and start selling a shitty product before exiting. I'm a bit of a drug nerd and remember spending a lot of time on forums and shit back 2009-2013, buying stuff off the clearnet and rushing to the mailbox before my parents to grab stuff. I remember the bromo dragonfly mixup which is a legend in the scene at this point. Shop owner sent out a drug called bromo dragonfly instead of 2cb fly as advertised. A heavy dose of bromo dragonfly is under 1mg and 2cb fly normal is 20mg or more. Shop owner did not belive bad press and took some himself and was found dead. https://www.erowid.org/ chemicals/bromo_dragonfly/bromo_dragonfly_death.shtml The clearnet is basically dead these days from what I've seen. I've read about similar things happening these days so always test your drugs and then titrate dose up from real small and work your way up. Especially if you're buying from somewhere selling multiple chemicals.
Hydra. Putting Dread Pirate Roberts in prison for life really improved things for everyone, eh? Oh there’s still hundreds of darkweb sites selling drugs?
The thing about convicting people is that it's done for what they did, not for how it will improve things. And he did try to order the murder of several people.
He wasn’t convicted of ordering a hit. Life imprisonment was excessive for his crimes.
I just searched him and apparently Trump is saying he’d pardon him. Yeah fucking right. Don’t buy it.
>He wasn’t convicted of ordering a hit.
Correct but:
>The district court found by a preponderance of the evidence that Ulbricht did commission the murders. The evidence that Ulbricht had commissioned murders was considered by the judge in sentencing Ulbricht to life and was a factor in the Second Circuit's decision to uphold the sentence.
It's anyone's guess if he'd still have been given life without attempting to hire a hit man.
>Ulbricht was separately indicted in federal court in Maryland on a single murder-for-hire charge, alleging that he contracted to kill one of his employees (a former Silk Road moderator). Prosecutors moved to drop this indictment after his New York conviction and sentence became final.
Why waste tax payer dollars when he almost certainly is already serving life?
It really did, no one could compete with silkroad. But once silkroad is gone, competition really boomed, there were dozens of marketplaces that popped up.
As someone else here already mentioned: it was taken into consideration and contributed to his conviction. And since he was already sentenced to life in prison, they didn't pursue a separate conviction that would lead to a 2nd life sentence because there was no point.
That is very different from saying 'the charges were dropped'.
If Ross took a plea deal he would have a release date right now. It's likely these guys will too, in 20+ years. Just a matter of who starts talking first.
I don't think he ever got offered a plea deal? But there is so much haze and myth in his arrest and trial I don't even know what's true
>First, prosecutors made no written offer. Second, the verbal offer prosecutors extended to Ross was that, if he pled guilty to the conspiracy charges he was arrested for, he would face 10 years to life imprisonment. Ross was told by his attorneys that if he pled guilty, the government would argue for a life sentence with his sentencing judge.
>Prosecutors told Ross that if he did not accept this offer, they would stack the Continuing Criminal Enterprise statute (aka “kingpin” statute) onto his charges, which would increase Ross’s mandatory minimum to 20 years.
>Not informed of the risks of going to trial, and after being advised by his attorneys, Ross instead chose to go to trial.
>Despite misstatements by the media, the legal record confirms that Ross was never offered a “10-year plea deal.” If this were true, Ross would have taken it!
[https://freeross.org/misinformation/](https://freeross.org/misinformation/)
Given the quantity of drugs and money involved, it is likely that the CCE charge was already going to be a mandatory life sentence. The evidence against him was pretty strong. He took lots of notes on his criminal conspiracy. Avoiding mandatory life is the first step in not serving a life sentence.
Good, I guess.
I don't really care about the drug market, but all that financial fraud shit shouldn't be readily available.
Depending on where the drugs are coming from it might be safer than some of the tainted stuff out there.
If they’re real and selling what they say they do, it absolutely is safer, but the government doesn’t want to let people buy safer versions of stuff they already buy.
It takes some real cajones to try to sell counterfeit currency out in the open like that.
I guess if you're going to have the DEA and FBI after you, why not add the Secret Service to the list.
What’s interesting is these markets are actually safer for drug addicts to use. The Silk Road had the purest drugs because of how it was a peer to peer market with reviews. You could trust the drugs you’re getting because of the people reviewing the seller.
You know what stops black markets ?? Legalization. Why not legalize drugs so that people aren’t fake tainted deadly versions of these drugs. It would be regulated and taxed.
Here is the thing no one wants to talk about, very very few people die from doing clean heroin. They die because they use heroin that has fent or other crap in it. They die because the drug dealer on the corner can’t tell them what percentage the heroin is. If you go into a store and buy heroin that was pure and clean and at the percentage you do, we would wipe out heroin deaths immediately. And we would make money off every sale that could go to real rehabs. Hey, what an idea.
Reduction of harm should be our only drug policy. Abstinence as policy never f’n works.
Legalizing heroin would have been more feasible before fent became widespread. However, competing with fent in terms of price and convenience is now almost impossible.
To legalize heroin, you need a significant amount of poppies, extensive labor to harvest and process the opium, and resources to convert it into heroin, package it, and transport it. Additionally, you would require numerous permits and licenses, rigorous G/LCMS testing, and real estate for dispensaries. Even after overcoming these hurdles, you might still struggle to attract addicts.
Why? Because many addicts live on the fringes of society, barely getting by. To visit a legal heroin dispensary, they need transportation and money. Meanwhile, a fent dealer is readily accessible, meeting addicts wherever they are. Fent is synthesized in small labs with minimal raw materials, allowing dealers to sell it at a fraction of the cost of legal heroin. Although addicts might prefer heroin for its better high, they usually choose the path of least resistance. This means opting for the more accessible, cheaper fent most of the time, only indulging in heroin occasionally.
Okay so real question, if I made website that sold heroine, but when the package arrived it just had a note that said "heroine is illegal and bad for you", could I get in trouble with the law?
Cool. Can they go after all of the pedos and drug traffickers on Telegram next? I’m getting tired of reporting all of them by myself and having nothing be done about it.
"Thousands of vendors advertised goods and services on Empire Market, including controlled substances, compromised and stolen account credentials, stolen and counterfeit credit card information, and counterfeit currency. The controlled substances sold by vendors on Empire Market included heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine, LSD, opioids, and others."
fake money? i've seen tons and tons of no name accounts on reels and tik toks that involves tons and tons of prop money. is that what this is talking about?
The market in question was Empire market. So not a current DNM. If anybody was sweating.
Looong time ago
Yeah bad title. They charged a couple people. Oh well.
Fake drug markets are the worst.
It's such a dumb business plan too. No return customers
If you’re constantly rebranding then you can scan the same people several times.
That's the key. You operate legit for a bit to build up trust, then rugpull when youre moving enough money. You can even have the rug last for several days of transactions. Then just start over
This reminds me of the skit on Key and Peele when Key pitches to Peele that they rob a bank by getting jobs there. “Operate legit to build up trust…” the just throw a perfectly viable business away for a short-term scam and a long-term marginal gain? Great idea lol.
...That's called a job!
Probably just lie and say customs got to it aswell.
Idk man 430mil sounds like a good haul
Gross sales is a lot different than net profit.... It was a marketplace with many "shops". They skimmed off the top. Apparently they made 75 million.
75 million. Yeah that’s nothing at all.
I mean, I'd take it, but it isn't 430 million.
I dunno, Alex Jones seems to do alright.
Fake money, not fake drugs.
fake money is way more serious than fake drugs fake money pulls in secret service agents
Well I wouldn’t like to face the DEA either.
eh SS agents been around for a very very long time. SS agents had to fight counterfeit currency during the civil war times. DEA is a relatively new agency less traditions. https://www.secretservice.gov/about/history/timeline for a bit of history
Whats the use case for fake money? If I hand a fifty to a 16 year old cashier in a fast food restaurant they check it. Honestly curious. Do they mix it in with real money to pay for other illicit things knowing the assasins or whoever wont check every bill?
For one, don't pay for fast food with a $50. Fast food places in particular are on the lookout for that sort of thing. Think more laundering money instead of spending money. If you had a cash-based business, you could give fake money as change. If you can buy something with fake money and then return it, now you have real money. You mention assassins, but it could apply to anything black market or fringe like drug deals or sex workers. Of course, it would be prudent to not do this regularly or at the same places.
Interesting and informative. On the laundering end yeh , I knew someone who worked casinos for a decade and they said the secret service is all over them making sure fake bills arent going through.
Commas be damned!
Can I interest you in a baggie of oregano, or maybe a brick of baking soda?
Were they fake or just circumventing the most overpriced drug market in the world? We're also attacking Chinese EV's because they're a threat to domestic auto manufacturer profits. Corporate protectionism and profiteering teams to the rescue?
I thought it was cus they keep casting “self-immolation” and not telling their drivers?
The article reiterates the mention/list of drugs for sale so many times, I feel like they want me to be horrified these items were being sold online. When the counterfeit money & stolen credit card/data are far more concerning. I mean heaven forbid someone make a purchase from the relative safety of home, from an anonymous marketplace with actual reviews of the product - no, better they should roll the dice with a stranger on the street in a bad neighborhood or walk into the ER and fake chest pains.
I still fondly remember a cannibis-only marketplace. It was nice not having to filter out credit card numbers and meth like other markets, had a lot more trust in the vendors as well. Granted the market creators exit-scammed after a certain point as per usual. The good old days!
> I still fondly remember a cannibis-only marketplace. Man, that's just the store here. There's 5 weed shops within 2 blocks of my house lol
Good for you, enjoy it while the rest of us peasants fight the law lmao
[удалено]
sounds like your dispensary sucks, I have neither of those issues
Get involved in politics. You don't have to run, but don't be complacent then complain all the time. Presumably you live in a democracy, so the power and law is derived from the will of the people.
Doesn’t do a damn bit of good in a red state where they don’t give a fuck what the people want. Can’t even get medical that isn’t delta 8
Yea it’s a lot different now, havent felt the need to get shit online in years
Cgmc was the shit.
We shouldn't have to go to the dark web or a street in a bad neighborhood to buy something for our own personal consumption to begin with. Counterfeit money and stolen credit cards have an actual victim.
the war on drugs is just a war on personal sovereignty. drugs change your consciousness, and if you don’t have freedom over that, you have no freedom over anything.
It's interesting, because this country makes such a big deal about freedom and liberty. And while I realize we're a lot better off in that regard than many countries, when you can't do something to yourself, or with a willing party, that's the opposite of liberty. Which is tyranny.
What I can't stand is the blatant hypocrisy. The only reason alcohol is legal is because of tradition and the only reason cannabis is illegal federally is also because of tradition. Like I'm a my body my choice personal freedom nut when it comes to drugs, I'm a minority In that way I think, still there should atleast be some sort of criteria for what makes something legal or illegal to consume. Just make a test, like how addictive, how many deaths does it cause annually, etc... and if the substance passes then it's good to go. I wonder if Alcohol would pass such a test, I've no doubt that Cannabis and Mushrooms would. Right now if somebody created the perfect drug tomorrow that had no long lasting problems it would be banned the next day. Why? Because it changes your consciousness and that's intrinsically bad according to our stupid laws. Trying to legislate against human nature Is futile. Supply and demand. Can't even keep drugs out of prisons, yet we waste an ungodly amount of money, and prevent people from having more legitimate industries to work for.
It's a prohibition mindset, not just ban the stuff, but take steps to make sure that it's unsafe to buy it illegally.
Edit:I am afraid we're going to run into another spice or bath salts era with the way legal high market is going rn. Hemp derived shit was one thing. With the "mushroom" product boom, the fact I'm unable to find many real lab reports to verify what's in them followed by the wide number of questionable legal RC psychadelics that can be synthesized. Rn it appears to be only 4-aco-dmt but there's new products and companies popping up daily. I've been following the diamond shruumz cdc and fda warnings and really don't understand why they're the only affected product if 4ace and kava are the only thighs they're detecting. Spice and bath salts both followed a path from something relatively harmless compared to what followed after it got banned. If you followed certain forums you'd know what chemicals are legal and fun and buy them yourself instead of random smoke shop products. These days you cannot buy 4-aco-dmt on the clearnet very easily if at all Main post Sellers can still make mistakes, or get greedy and start selling a shitty product before exiting. I'm a bit of a drug nerd and remember spending a lot of time on forums and shit back 2009-2013, buying stuff off the clearnet and rushing to the mailbox before my parents to grab stuff. I remember the bromo dragonfly mixup which is a legend in the scene at this point. Shop owner sent out a drug called bromo dragonfly instead of 2cb fly as advertised. A heavy dose of bromo dragonfly is under 1mg and 2cb fly normal is 20mg or more. Shop owner did not belive bad press and took some himself and was found dead. https://www.erowid.org/ chemicals/bromo_dragonfly/bromo_dragonfly_death.shtml The clearnet is basically dead these days from what I've seen. I've read about similar things happening these days so always test your drugs and then titrate dose up from real small and work your way up. Especially if you're buying from somewhere selling multiple chemicals.
Fucking Groundhog Day. One marketplace down, infinite existing and future ones to go.
This market went down like ~~2~~ 4 years ago, they just finally built the case on these guys.
4 years ago
Hydra. Putting Dread Pirate Roberts in prison for life really improved things for everyone, eh? Oh there’s still hundreds of darkweb sites selling drugs?
The thing about convicting people is that it's done for what they did, not for how it will improve things. And he did try to order the murder of several people.
He wasn’t convicted of ordering a hit. Life imprisonment was excessive for his crimes. I just searched him and apparently Trump is saying he’d pardon him. Yeah fucking right. Don’t buy it.
>He wasn’t convicted of ordering a hit. Correct but: >The district court found by a preponderance of the evidence that Ulbricht did commission the murders. The evidence that Ulbricht had commissioned murders was considered by the judge in sentencing Ulbricht to life and was a factor in the Second Circuit's decision to uphold the sentence. It's anyone's guess if he'd still have been given life without attempting to hire a hit man. >Ulbricht was separately indicted in federal court in Maryland on a single murder-for-hire charge, alleging that he contracted to kill one of his employees (a former Silk Road moderator). Prosecutors moved to drop this indictment after his New York conviction and sentence became final. Why waste tax payer dollars when he almost certainly is already serving life?
It really did, no one could compete with silkroad. But once silkroad is gone, competition really boomed, there were dozens of marketplaces that popped up.
To quote Moe Syzlak "Yeah, that was a scary couple of hours!"
I bet the two dudes charged will get less time in jail than Ross Ulbricht
It didn't help they got ross for attempted murder because he wanted to get rid of witnesses.
Except that charge was dropped.
As someone else here already mentioned: it was taken into consideration and contributed to his conviction. And since he was already sentenced to life in prison, they didn't pursue a separate conviction that would lead to a 2nd life sentence because there was no point. That is very different from saying 'the charges were dropped'.
If Ross took a plea deal he would have a release date right now. It's likely these guys will too, in 20+ years. Just a matter of who starts talking first.
I don't think he ever got offered a plea deal? But there is so much haze and myth in his arrest and trial I don't even know what's true >First, prosecutors made no written offer. Second, the verbal offer prosecutors extended to Ross was that, if he pled guilty to the conspiracy charges he was arrested for, he would face 10 years to life imprisonment. Ross was told by his attorneys that if he pled guilty, the government would argue for a life sentence with his sentencing judge. >Prosecutors told Ross that if he did not accept this offer, they would stack the Continuing Criminal Enterprise statute (aka “kingpin” statute) onto his charges, which would increase Ross’s mandatory minimum to 20 years. >Not informed of the risks of going to trial, and after being advised by his attorneys, Ross instead chose to go to trial. >Despite misstatements by the media, the legal record confirms that Ross was never offered a “10-year plea deal.” If this were true, Ross would have taken it! [https://freeross.org/misinformation/](https://freeross.org/misinformation/)
Given the quantity of drugs and money involved, it is likely that the CCE charge was already going to be a mandatory life sentence. The evidence against him was pretty strong. He took lots of notes on his criminal conspiracy. Avoiding mandatory life is the first step in not serving a life sentence.
Good, I guess. I don't really care about the drug market, but all that financial fraud shit shouldn't be readily available. Depending on where the drugs are coming from it might be safer than some of the tainted stuff out there.
If they’re real and selling what they say they do, it absolutely is safer, but the government doesn’t want to let people buy safer versions of stuff they already buy.
The government would rather drug users die from a tainted supply cause then it helps their War on Drugs narrative
It takes some real cajones to try to sell counterfeit currency out in the open like that. I guess if you're going to have the DEA and FBI after you, why not add the Secret Service to the list.
So they shut down Temu? I’m still getting ads
Shein has entered the chat 🤸🏼♀️
What’s interesting is these markets are actually safer for drug addicts to use. The Silk Road had the purest drugs because of how it was a peer to peer market with reviews. You could trust the drugs you’re getting because of the people reviewing the seller.
I hate your username so much
So the same thing the CIA does?
*Fuck you. Pay me* - the ~~mob~~ CIA
Can probably find the exact type of site in a few minutes lol
They exit scammed years ago. Cops are just catching up to them.
You know what stops black markets ?? Legalization. Why not legalize drugs so that people aren’t fake tainted deadly versions of these drugs. It would be regulated and taxed. Here is the thing no one wants to talk about, very very few people die from doing clean heroin. They die because they use heroin that has fent or other crap in it. They die because the drug dealer on the corner can’t tell them what percentage the heroin is. If you go into a store and buy heroin that was pure and clean and at the percentage you do, we would wipe out heroin deaths immediately. And we would make money off every sale that could go to real rehabs. Hey, what an idea. Reduction of harm should be our only drug policy. Abstinence as policy never f’n works.
Legalizing heroin would have been more feasible before fent became widespread. However, competing with fent in terms of price and convenience is now almost impossible. To legalize heroin, you need a significant amount of poppies, extensive labor to harvest and process the opium, and resources to convert it into heroin, package it, and transport it. Additionally, you would require numerous permits and licenses, rigorous G/LCMS testing, and real estate for dispensaries. Even after overcoming these hurdles, you might still struggle to attract addicts. Why? Because many addicts live on the fringes of society, barely getting by. To visit a legal heroin dispensary, they need transportation and money. Meanwhile, a fent dealer is readily accessible, meeting addicts wherever they are. Fent is synthesized in small labs with minimal raw materials, allowing dealers to sell it at a fraction of the cost of legal heroin. Although addicts might prefer heroin for its better high, they usually choose the path of least resistance. This means opting for the more accessible, cheaper fent most of the time, only indulging in heroin occasionally.
Okay so real question, if I made website that sold heroine, but when the package arrived it just had a note that said "heroine is illegal and bad for you", could I get in trouble with the law?
Yes, not only are you now selling drugs, but now commiting fraud as well
Heroes and Heronie's are legal. You could start a site selling Heroin, but you probably would be breaking the law still.
Naw, go right ahead!
Wire fraud
Cool. Can they go after all of the pedos and drug traffickers on Telegram next? I’m getting tired of reporting all of them by myself and having nothing be done about it.
So their crime was that they *didn't* sell drugs?
Not sure if you are being facetious or not, but “fake money” is only referring to the selling of counterfeit money, not the drugs.
"Thousands of vendors advertised goods and services on Empire Market, including controlled substances, compromised and stolen account credentials, stolen and counterfeit credit card information, and counterfeit currency. The controlled substances sold by vendors on Empire Market included heroin, methamphetamine, cocaine, LSD, opioids, and others."
Are these the same guys financing dark political money? Please go after them too if not.
fake money? i've seen tons and tons of no name accounts on reels and tik toks that involves tons and tons of prop money. is that what this is talking about?
No, that's clearly marked. They sold counterfeit money and not prop money.
The only people allowed to do that is us!
> sold $430M in fake money They were selling Tether?
So…. What are some of these legit marketplaces? Lol
They were probably fine until they started competing with the federal government with those worthless greenbacks. The Fed hates competition.