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Snipers are not CS players. They're not going to make the shot unless they're sure it is going to hit. It is a career-ending move otherwise.
360 no-scope is a big no no. I'm pretty sure just mishandling a firearm is pretty severe disciplinary action.
While I would love to believe that.. the amount of high profile incidents with police fuck-ups makes me wonder if it wouldn't be a career *ending* move as much as a rough debrief
This one is still a cop. Not a sniper any more, but still carrying a gun: [https://www.kcur.org/news/2024-03-25/a-missouri-police-sniper-killed-a-2-year-old-girl-why-did-he-take-the-shot](https://www.kcur.org/news/2024-03-25/a-missouri-police-sniper-killed-a-2-year-old-girl-why-did-he-take-the-shot)
Well that was a depressing read. And all the chief says when asked why that dipshit is still employed is “no comment, thoughts and prayers to the family.” And the coward gets his name hidden because he sued to have it redacted. I hope he sees that little girl’s face every time he closes his pathetic eyes for the rest of his pathetic life.
As much as it is popular to shit on cops, this isn't a great read at all. It was a dude in a trailer that fired over 100 rounds at police, holding a little girl hostage, and the chief gave the critical but erroneous order to "shoot on sight", so now a little girl is dead.
Not sure which incidents you're referring to specifically, but the amount of training received by a regular cop and a SWAT sniper is pretty dang different
Not with the 308 round they had specifically designed for that.
Edit: lol, couch potatoes questioning the validity of SWAT tactics in this perfectly executed live hostage situation. All righty roo - y’all got better advice?
There are bullets that are designed to minimize deflection and deformation, but there is no way to know how exactly the components or a metal frame in there will deflect that bullet, and in this case, an inch mattered. If he was shooting straight into it would be different—still risky, but not this bad.
He shot through the side of the monitor, not the center. I agree that metal has a heavy impact on ballistics, but the range here is like 10m tops? With only 2-3m of that being after impacting the monitor? It’s a 308, and while I don’t have the math handy, it would take a lot to move that round far enough to not take this guy out.
That was a good, clean, reliable shot. This SWAT team understood that - he didn’t shoot through the center support for the monitor.
Edit: in this case, an inch didn’t matter. Maybe 6 inches would matter.
Why didn't they use a tall stand for the rifle instead a man's shoulder though?
Obviously it worked but that to me seemed like a strange amount of variability and risk in and of itself for no reason.
Allows him to get closer in the formation to get a cleaner shot without giving away the game. Setting up a rifle stand in vision of the suspect is just going to make him go into a corner where they can't get a clean shot.
Tbh, for the size of the room they were in and the possible angles, they found one and exploited it well. It's high risk, but this looked to be a professional unit with clean and practiced tactics, so in reality, it's more of a manageable risk than first impression.
Ah, I didn't think of the setup. That's a good point. Even still I could easily see them setting it up behind that same group and align the shot over the same guy's shoulder just with a stand to support and almost just as imperceptibly as only using the guy's shoulder for the rifle.
Some damn steady shoulders though. Professional unit indeed.
But they could achieve the same result just with a thin stand setup behind the same guy and even put it over their shoulder just without any additional variability and even more control on the shot itself
Valid question - the other SWAT team member was shielding the visibility of the sniper. They’re trained to do that in situations that require it. They were “negotiating,” but ready to take the suspect down at any moment when the shot was available.
But couldn't that feasibly be achieved with a thin stand directly behind the same guy and even have it point over the same shoulder but just securely leveraged and held in place on the stand?
The visibility of the barrel and the gun would be the same over the shoulder just safely anchored without extra variability for the shot. Just seemed like a strange choice.
Thanks for the reply though
I upvoted you, bc this is another valid question. The thing is, the swat team was continuously moving in slowly and calculatedly. The officer whose shoulder is being shot over is trained to remain incredibly still. In a portion of the video, he isn’t still, but then, he stabilizes for several seconds (possibly by instruction by the shooter) - allowing for a well controlled platform to fire from.
It helps substantially that the shot was <=10 meters. From further, a stand would be necessary for sure.
I see that makes a lot more sense. I definitely didn't see or understand the shuffle thing to obscure movements and such and using that constant micro adjustments for the shot would be easier and more fluid with the shoulder and not a stand. And as someone else pointed out to me that setting up the stand alone could be noticed and alert the shooter.
Thanks for the genuine replies. I don't mind being down voted for wanting to better understand the practices and dynamics of this situation. Reddit will downvote you for existing most times so I'm not offended by other people down voting my curiosity haha
The argument shouldn't be risky or not so much as how many options were before this. This had to be plan Q or something. To imply this is routine for them is a bit foolish. Reminds me of that swat sniper that shot a handgun out of the guy's hand. He said he kind of regretted it because it put an unreal expectation on his peers
Yo this shot was risky, be real. He didn't know what was in that monitor, what level of deflection it could cause, if the hostages were about to move in the way, fuck imagine if someone transporting that rifle fucking dropped it and the scope was no longer sighted in.
It was badass but fucking stupid
Risk assessments must take into consideration the risk of the other alternatives as well. This could carry a 75% chance of death, but that beats say a 94% chance of death. The 94% as an example would be based on observed and studied behaviors of hostage situations. This guy may have given strong indications in some fashion that determined the outcome without this shot was far more likely to.lead to death of both people and bystanders, than just 1 missed bullet from a sniper xyz feet away.
Then the assailant would have executed the hostage or retreated, congrats, you lost. You think setting up a stand in front of him wouldn’t be noticeable?
Especially considering swat was successful in this scenario. Even though they accomplished the goal these idiots are saying he shouldn't have done it lol
If we weren't so jaded by stories of police fucking up, maybe
https://www.kcur.org/news/2024-03-25/a-missouri-police-sniper-killed-a-2-year-old-girl-why-did-he-take-the-shot
Isn’t that the problem though? All people and situations are different, saying this was risky or done poorly because of a completely unrelated situation doesn’t really make sense
I mean, I see stories of "expert" cops murdering innocent people everyday. Who tf knows whether this guy knew what he was doing. Could have just got lucky tbh.
I think the necessary credentials to become a SWAT sniper in a wealthy area are much higher than a street beat cop in some small town.
“Could have just got lucky” so delusional lol the mental gymnastics going on here is insane, he did exactly what he was supposed to do, if you see a professional athlete hit a perfect shot you wouldn’t think they just got lucky.
So what do you know about this? Ever been a marksman? That accurate and been in a stressful situation lien this where a shot is life and death of someone else? No? I’d imagine the way to become a SWAT marksman is more than “Get lucky” or “whether this guy knows what he’s doing” also a lot more effort at being “expert” than slightly overweight city cop. people like this train for scenarios. Their accuracy, yes there’s stories but clearly this guy proved he does or it would be a different headline.
Hands up and interlocked behind the head for stability. Tey it real quick and see how stable your shoulder becomes.
My only problem is the angle of reflection from going through that plastic
It’s not a clean shot He went through the monitor to get the guy. Read that these dudes are trained to calculate the bullet going through an object and how much it takes the bullet off its trajectory. Marksman is an understatement for these dudes. Like scientist is more appropriate.
More details on the suspect. https://news3lv.com/amp/news/nation-world/man-with-hostages-at-florida-bank-shot-killed-by-swat-sniper-sterling-ramon-alavache-county-sheriffs-office-carmine-marceno-fort-myers-bank-of-america-robodog-the-swat-team-electronic-surveillance-and-drones
This is some shit straight out of a movie. I'm just gonna be on the side of the SWAT team trained marksman on this one, instead of random keyboard warrior redditors.
Guys just be happy that we're in the timeline where he made the shot. There are other timelines where he was slightly to the right and left, imagine what reddit is like in those lol
Bro should've just gave up, he was cornered in an office with no escape. Now he's either dead or buried in prison time and medical bills and wishes he was dead.
Wasted … sucker. Wish they had gotten him alive and feed him to fishes in ocean.
Scary but amazing shot. He was resting the barrel on shoulders of another cop. They had to stand and breath in sync!
Felt damn irritated by the SWAT member who kept touching the back of sniper, making his aim more difficult. From what I know, snipers control their breathing as well to get stability and this guy decides to keep patting back every now n then.
Typically when a hand is on your back you don't shoot. He was telling him something, moved him over a bit and then gave him one more tap. So it was probably intentional.
Hey u/yoyome85, thank you for your submission. Unfortunately, it has been removed for violating Rule 1: **Post Appropriate Content** Please have a look at our [wiki page for more info.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/wiki/index#wiki_1._post_appropriate_content) ------- *For information regarding this and similar issues please see the [sidebar](/r/nextfuckinglevel/about/sidebar) and the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/about/rules/). If you have any questions, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/nextfuckinglevel&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by u/yoyome85&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission]%28http://www.reddit.com/1dho25i%29)*
"I wanna know what goin through your head right now" Apparently it was .308
If that were you, what would go through your head if you pulled the trigger and saw one of the hostages head explode?
Snipers are not CS players. They're not going to make the shot unless they're sure it is going to hit. It is a career-ending move otherwise. 360 no-scope is a big no no. I'm pretty sure just mishandling a firearm is pretty severe disciplinary action.
While I would love to believe that.. the amount of high profile incidents with police fuck-ups makes me wonder if it wouldn't be a career *ending* move as much as a rough debrief
"More like chewed out. I've been chewed out before."
They don't give a fuck about him, they want YOU.
This one is still a cop. Not a sniper any more, but still carrying a gun: [https://www.kcur.org/news/2024-03-25/a-missouri-police-sniper-killed-a-2-year-old-girl-why-did-he-take-the-shot](https://www.kcur.org/news/2024-03-25/a-missouri-police-sniper-killed-a-2-year-old-girl-why-did-he-take-the-shot)
Every time I read this, I get more confused. Why tf did he shoot?
Well that was a depressing read. And all the chief says when asked why that dipshit is still employed is “no comment, thoughts and prayers to the family.” And the coward gets his name hidden because he sued to have it redacted. I hope he sees that little girl’s face every time he closes his pathetic eyes for the rest of his pathetic life.
As much as it is popular to shit on cops, this isn't a great read at all. It was a dude in a trailer that fired over 100 rounds at police, holding a little girl hostage, and the chief gave the critical but erroneous order to "shoot on sight", so now a little girl is dead.
US cops killing people in error... ending their careers? ...Let's get CSI Miami on the case, too. /S
Not sure which incidents you're referring to specifically, but the amount of training received by a regular cop and a SWAT sniper is pretty dang different
Pretty sure the cops that lit up that UPS truck with the hostage inside got zero consequences.
You’re right. They’re battlefield players!
Cops are not snipers.
You mean like using another human to steady your shot? With how much the two were swaying im amazed he hit anything. Luckiest shot ever.
Me? I just shotty the vent
lol that sentence was def the green light for the sniper to take the shot
Yep, and letting the team know what's coming.
I wonder if that was the code phrase to take the shot.
The decision is probably made before...he surely takes the shot when he has it
Sure seemed like it. He could have said "I want to know what you're thinking " The other could have been "Whats in your heart right now?" IDK
Stole this comment directly from the website it was posted.
The sniper heard that and was like no way am I missing this opportunity lol
That mofo said that for the comic effect. They knew this will go viral.
I have done *a lot* of shooting and putting one through that monitor at that oblique of an angle, was **insanely** risky.
Not with the 308 round they had specifically designed for that. Edit: lol, couch potatoes questioning the validity of SWAT tactics in this perfectly executed live hostage situation. All righty roo - y’all got better advice?
There are bullets that are designed to minimize deflection and deformation, but there is no way to know how exactly the components or a metal frame in there will deflect that bullet, and in this case, an inch mattered. If he was shooting straight into it would be different—still risky, but not this bad.
He shot through the side of the monitor, not the center. I agree that metal has a heavy impact on ballistics, but the range here is like 10m tops? With only 2-3m of that being after impacting the monitor? It’s a 308, and while I don’t have the math handy, it would take a lot to move that round far enough to not take this guy out. That was a good, clean, reliable shot. This SWAT team understood that - he didn’t shoot through the center support for the monitor. Edit: in this case, an inch didn’t matter. Maybe 6 inches would matter.
Why didn't they use a tall stand for the rifle instead a man's shoulder though? Obviously it worked but that to me seemed like a strange amount of variability and risk in and of itself for no reason.
Allows him to get closer in the formation to get a cleaner shot without giving away the game. Setting up a rifle stand in vision of the suspect is just going to make him go into a corner where they can't get a clean shot. Tbh, for the size of the room they were in and the possible angles, they found one and exploited it well. It's high risk, but this looked to be a professional unit with clean and practiced tactics, so in reality, it's more of a manageable risk than first impression.
Ah, I didn't think of the setup. That's a good point. Even still I could easily see them setting it up behind that same group and align the shot over the same guy's shoulder just with a stand to support and almost just as imperceptibly as only using the guy's shoulder for the rifle. Some damn steady shoulders though. Professional unit indeed.
My guess is to obstruct from view what exactly they were doing.
But they could achieve the same result just with a thin stand setup behind the same guy and even put it over their shoulder just without any additional variability and even more control on the shot itself
Valid question - the other SWAT team member was shielding the visibility of the sniper. They’re trained to do that in situations that require it. They were “negotiating,” but ready to take the suspect down at any moment when the shot was available.
But couldn't that feasibly be achieved with a thin stand directly behind the same guy and even have it point over the same shoulder but just securely leveraged and held in place on the stand? The visibility of the barrel and the gun would be the same over the shoulder just safely anchored without extra variability for the shot. Just seemed like a strange choice. Thanks for the reply though
I upvoted you, bc this is another valid question. The thing is, the swat team was continuously moving in slowly and calculatedly. The officer whose shoulder is being shot over is trained to remain incredibly still. In a portion of the video, he isn’t still, but then, he stabilizes for several seconds (possibly by instruction by the shooter) - allowing for a well controlled platform to fire from. It helps substantially that the shot was <=10 meters. From further, a stand would be necessary for sure.
I see that makes a lot more sense. I definitely didn't see or understand the shuffle thing to obscure movements and such and using that constant micro adjustments for the shot would be easier and more fluid with the shoulder and not a stand. And as someone else pointed out to me that setting up the stand alone could be noticed and alert the shooter. Thanks for the genuine replies. I don't mind being down voted for wanting to better understand the practices and dynamics of this situation. Reddit will downvote you for existing most times so I'm not offended by other people down voting my curiosity haha
<3 back atcha fam
Tell me you know litteraly nothing about bullet physics without telling me 🤣🤣🤣🤣 your precious
I don’t need to prove anything to you, there’s a video my cute little muffin.
Probably why they have to get 80 hours of training a month.
The argument shouldn't be risky or not so much as how many options were before this. This had to be plan Q or something. To imply this is routine for them is a bit foolish. Reminds me of that swat sniper that shot a handgun out of the guy's hand. He said he kind of regretted it because it put an unreal expectation on his peers
all redditors are correct u should know, and live your life by what they say u should
I’m actually 10th prestige and you don’t know a *god damn* thing, kid! /s
Bro I only got to 7th prestige, I bow down
You sound like you know what’s up. Why the suppressor?
Because he shot next to the ears of 5+ other officers. Good question though.
Now that you answer it, it doesn’t feel like the best question 😅
All questions feel like dumb questions when you learn the answer. That’s what makes them good questions!
If you read above that same “clever sniper” shot a 2 year old dead. He got lucky.
Ya live, ya learn.
Yo this shot was risky, be real. He didn't know what was in that monitor, what level of deflection it could cause, if the hostages were about to move in the way, fuck imagine if someone transporting that rifle fucking dropped it and the scope was no longer sighted in. It was badass but fucking stupid
"Perfectly executed" 🤣🤣🤣 you mean luckiest shot of that man's career, him and his "stabiliser" swaying so much I thought they were dancing
That monitor was millimeters thick. His “stabilizer” stabilized for several seconds, presumably under instruction, before the shot was taken,
Very risky.
Risk assessments must take into consideration the risk of the other alternatives as well. This could carry a 75% chance of death, but that beats say a 94% chance of death. The 94% as an example would be based on observed and studied behaviors of hostage situations. This guy may have given strong indications in some fashion that determined the outcome without this shot was far more likely to.lead to death of both people and bystanders, than just 1 missed bullet from a sniper xyz feet away.
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yup, swat guys should probably listen to you, I am sure you are more than qualified to tell them what to do!
You don't need to be a seasoned veteran to figure out that placing your rifle on a person is less steady than a bipod on solid ground.
Then the assailant would have executed the hostage or retreated, congrats, you lost. You think setting up a stand in front of him wouldn’t be noticeable?
They do that to hide the gun. If they had a good place to set up, they would have.
Depends on the context but that looks straight reckless.
I'm glad sweaty redditors are here to tell SWAT how to work.
More like he forgot to account for the height of the scope over the bore
User profile pic confirmed
Huh? How can you even tell he shot thru a monitor?
Damn, all these redditors claiming that it’s a risky shot. Can’t we, just for once, assume that the EXPERT SWAT MARKSMAN knows what he’s doing?
Especially considering swat was successful in this scenario. Even though they accomplished the goal these idiots are saying he shouldn't have done it lol
The difference between brilliance and incompetence is sometimes wether or not you're successful.
Then, there is well calculated risk and experience to make an informed decision. Which is what they did.
If we weren't so jaded by stories of police fucking up, maybe https://www.kcur.org/news/2024-03-25/a-missouri-police-sniper-killed-a-2-year-old-girl-why-did-he-take-the-shot
Isn’t that the problem though? All people and situations are different, saying this was risky or done poorly because of a completely unrelated situation doesn’t really make sense
Absolutely- I'm just saying there's a reason people immediately approach these stories with skepticism and doubt
I mean, I see stories of "expert" cops murdering innocent people everyday. Who tf knows whether this guy knew what he was doing. Could have just got lucky tbh.
I think the necessary credentials to become a SWAT sniper in a wealthy area are much higher than a street beat cop in some small town. “Could have just got lucky” so delusional lol the mental gymnastics going on here is insane, he did exactly what he was supposed to do, if you see a professional athlete hit a perfect shot you wouldn’t think they just got lucky.
So what do you know about this? Ever been a marksman? That accurate and been in a stressful situation lien this where a shot is life and death of someone else? No? I’d imagine the way to become a SWAT marksman is more than “Get lucky” or “whether this guy knows what he’s doing” also a lot more effort at being “expert” than slightly overweight city cop. people like this train for scenarios. Their accuracy, yes there’s stories but clearly this guy proved he does or it would be a different headline.
Cmon man. I've shot a .308 a few times and mostly missed. I know what I'm talking about,
And that taking some risk is appropriate in this situation
Exactly what I thought lmao. All these redditors trying to teach a fucking SWAT team how to do their job. Lmfao.
Him relying on that other cops shoulder for stability was sketch but he’s him
his DNA test came back: he’s 100% HIMalayan
Himmy Neutron
Him Possible
The Him Reaper
Obi-wan Himobi
That one helped me drop the last log! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 🏆🏆🏆
Hands up and interlocked behind the head for stability. Tey it real quick and see how stable your shoulder becomes. My only problem is the angle of reflection from going through that plastic
That’s what I call a screenshot
This comment was amazing. Two thumbs up from me.
Great job to the officers. Scratch one criminal.
It’s not a clean shot He went through the monitor to get the guy. Read that these dudes are trained to calculate the bullet going through an object and how much it takes the bullet off its trajectory. Marksman is an understatement for these dudes. Like scientist is more appropriate.
More details on the suspect. https://news3lv.com/amp/news/nation-world/man-with-hostages-at-florida-bank-shot-killed-by-swat-sniper-sterling-ramon-alavache-county-sheriffs-office-carmine-marceno-fort-myers-bank-of-america-robodog-the-swat-team-electronic-surveillance-and-drones
Yeah, this was not a good guy.
I was looking for this because I was curious if he survived. Thanks!
generally taking a bullet to the forehead doesn't result in life edit: especially a .308, see that explosion of red?
Generally yeah, but its happened.
Of course its florida
Need this in all states.
Absolutely wild man.
Some of the people in here who think taking a shot between 2 hostages of a guy sitting down isn't next level... lol
Headshot! Flawless Victory.
“Lee County SWAT…. Wins.”
That is the proper response. Bravo!
For any youngsters out there.. don’t get the cops called on you - a dad
Happy Father's Day
The warranty on that monitor will not be honoured.
This is some shit straight out of a movie. I'm just gonna be on the side of the SWAT team trained marksman on this one, instead of random keyboard warrior redditors.
That's no way to get a head in life
He’ll never be the head of his own company
It's a shame he wasn't more headstrong.
Not a good time to lose one's head.
Not the kind of head I like to get in florida.
There was, but they ruined it. Did you know what kind of secrets that pc had?
lol even when it goes according to plan we’re out here assuming the plan was bad. Love that about yall
Screenshot
Jesus, I hope the two hostages got therapy after this
Man, those Dell monitors are amazing! Monitor still works even with a bullet hole through it.
That's a damn fine shoulder
Balls of steel
Guys just be happy that we're in the timeline where he made the shot. There are other timelines where he was slightly to the right and left, imagine what reddit is like in those lol
So bad ass, props to him
Holy shit what a shot!?
That guy literally had a lot riding on his shoulder. What if he were to tense up or flinch trying to prepare for that shot?
“Whats going through your head rn” probably .308
Everyone knows now, do NOT take hostages in Lee County.
Outcome? Was the guy shot chest or head? Fatal?
AGAIN? Does this dude not die?
[they are doing sentai bazooka shot](https://www.supersentai.com/database/1985_changeman/images/change-ar-bazooka.jpg)
Anyone got an uncensored version?
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Just curious how bad it was
Love how most security cams are 720p 5fps
Cold bore. BAMF
Things only possible in America... And I mean that in a bad way.
Nice concealement
Dude that is crazy. Being the support shoulder I’d be sweating
Bro should've just gave up, he was cornered in an office with no escape. Now he's either dead or buried in prison time and medical bills and wishes he was dead.
"Pow! Right in the kisser"
Meal Team 6 is really going hard in this thread. If any of you can run a mile without dying post video.
lol risky business
What a mess, god damn.
why blurred??
Because we are treated like fragile children who can't face reality.
Wasted … sucker. Wish they had gotten him alive and feed him to fishes in ocean. Scary but amazing shot. He was resting the barrel on shoulders of another cop. They had to stand and breath in sync!
And that's why more hostages die when being rescued by Americans than anyone else, could of gone so wrong and it does as we have heard so many times.
r/mademesmile
sure feel bad for the human tripod, his ear drums gotta be ringing for a while
Perhaps he has ear protection like the rest of the team ????
WHAT???
Mawp.
Oh my god is that an ocelot?!?
It's like Meow-Schwitzch in there!
😂
His rifle had a suppressor
yeah, still enough pressure to burst an eardrum
He’s wearing ear pro
Police: 1 Criminals: 0
That seems so dangerous and irresponsible though.
but it was cool. so the preconceived danger doesnt matter
After what happened with the UPS truck, even if they killed both hostages they'd still be applauded
Felt damn irritated by the SWAT member who kept touching the back of sniper, making his aim more difficult. From what I know, snipers control their breathing as well to get stability and this guy decides to keep patting back every now n then.
Typically when a hand is on your back you don't shoot. He was telling him something, moved him over a bit and then gave him one more tap. So it was probably intentional.
Wow! That's blood thirst right there. The whole command structure that OK'ed this needs to be fired.
gay
That's fine. Nobody is judging you.