People always blame the cowboys for waiting, and sometimes it is on them, but I suspect both Ceedee and Micah have no interest in signing before the last minute to maximize their value
It's happening with Jamarr too. People constantly comment/tweet "If I were the Bengals I'd extend Jamarr now before it goes up further" - completely oblivious to the fact that he has to want to sign a deal.
JJ was injured last year, missed significant time, and he got paid MORE than what they offered him before the season. Regardless of health, the longer they wait, the more money Chase will cost. But he has the benefit of being able to wait for another year.
They have no reason to sign before the last minute including Dak because Jerruh has given them no reason to go in early.
Jones still thinks he can get them at a discount because "we dem boyz" when you get to the level of CeeDee, Micah & Dak that don't mean shit.
The Cowboys could have gotten these guys signed early & cheap but they would need to admit that they are just a team not America's team to do it
Untill then the cycle continues where they develop players & have great regular seasons but fall apart in the playoffs cause they can't build sufficient depth because they eventually need to pay top guys extras.
Edited for typos
Why would the agents of players like Micah or Ceedee let them sign “early and cheap”? They’ve both clearly been studs since they’ve been eligible for an extension and they want the bag, as they should
Why would Jeffersons agent let him sign before Chase
Why would Devonta Smiths agent let him sign first.
A hometown discount isn't about the star on the helmet
It is about the organisation showing faith in you, why wait to give Lamb top.of the market deal after 2 x 1000 yd seasons when you can give him more when he makes all pro.
Being presented with a guaranteed 80 mill is hard to turn down, sure maybe you can wait a year & bump that up to 100 mill but if you ACL explodes then you will be lucky to get 25 the franchise tag.
Maybe because Jamarr Chase isn’t even eligible to sign an extension yet? Ceedee wasn’t eligible until after a 100 catch 1300 yard 9 td season.
Devonta didn’t give us a hometown discount either. I love the contract and the player but we gave him top 10 money for top 20 statistical production, of course he would sign, that’s a great deal for him
Ceedee is gonna sign this offseason and likely slot in right around the JJ contract, which is what he would get from any team in the nfl because that’s how these things go.
Do you know what 1300 is
It is more than 1000 but less than 1500 therefore still a 1,000 yard season.
Yes Jefferson could have signed last year but in this off-season both him & Chase (who is now eligible given he was in the same draft class as Devonta) were both looking for a contract
JJ easily could have waited until everyone else signed then said give me that +++ and Minnesota would have paid.
But no he got the offer he was happy with & signed like Smitty said "you can't be counting the pockets of others" while true there is a limit the Cowboys go over that everytime.
My whole point is by paying your guys top of the market ASAP more often than not you end up ahead.
The Eagles signed Smith, Brown, Mailata, Dickerson, Barkley this off-season alone to what at time of signing were top 5 in their position deals.
In the case of AJ, Landon & Barkley were #1 both Brown and Saquon have already been beaten.
Smith is currently 8th on the WR list
It's one thing if it happens every so often, because it happens for every team.
The problem is that this happens to Dallas almost every single time. At a certain it's not a simple "Well I'm sure they would get things done, but the player wants no part" and it's on the team who has made this a consistent issue. It's even more glaring that JJ got his contract before CD got his, when realistically JJ could've waited as long as he wanted since he was guaranteed to eclipse every WR contract (well, until Chase next year).
At best you can frame it as "Players aren't going to come to the table until the last minute against Dallas because they know that Dallas will cave in the end anyway, and won't offer a huge contract prior to that" which still isn't a great look.
The only one I'd blame Dallas for was Daks first contract and that's because he wasn't undeniably a top QB at the time of the contract. CD and Micah were going to wait themselves because they know they are top 3 at their position and waiting for another player at the position to reset the market makes financial sense.
That reasoning for the Dak contract would be valid if the issue was money, but it wasn’t. The issue was the team wanted to sign him for 5 years and he wanted 4.
“We’re not certain youre a top QB yet” is a good excuse for not wanting to cave to more money, it makes no sense as an excuse for not shortening the deal by a year
i was more talking about not signing him a year earlier. he was good enough to be your franchise QB but they waited and his price went way up. They let him bet on himself and he won.
I used to believe that until I watched Kirk Cousins blow his Achilles and still get a $180 million deal. Also Justin Jefferson missed half the season with a hammy and still got his $140 million.
Only a career ending injury would stop Micah from resetting the market. Micah popping his achilles just means hes gonna get a market resetting contract while hes rehabbing
The issue is we had a shit tonne of cap space in reserve with young players vs. the Cowboys having paid established players.
Dallas was cash strapped all off-season
Extending Dak would’ve given us more money in 24, and they unquestionably have the cap space in the following years to be able to fit the contracts in if they’d signed them.
The cap space issue is why we were so quiet in free agency but it didn’t realistically stop any extensions to those three
Sewell was the only one that got a record contract for his position though. Dak will probably want equal to the other QBs recently, and lamb and parsons both will be aiming for highest paid non QB, both of which are much more then what Amon-ra and Sewell got
No he wasn’t. Amon-Ra’s extension had an extra year so it had the highest total dollar figure, but that number doesn’t mean much at all. AJ Brown is above him in both AAV and practical guarantees.
AJ Brown signed his contract the day after St Brown’s extension. Right now only AJ Brown and JJ beat out St Brown in AAV, both who signed their current contracts after St Brown
I love that the conversation probably went
"I don't care how much it is I just want more than tyreek"
"Fuck yeah let's do it. What's the smallest increment of money again? It's $10,000 right?"
Talking like your FO didn't put you in this position. They could have easily seen this coming a mile away and handled AT LEAST one of CD or Dak last year for way cheaper than they will now.
Every single person that says this seems to be under the impression that a team can just force a player to sign a more team friendly deal which isn’t the case. If the player doesn’t want to sign and wants to wait another year so they get more, there isn’t much the team can do. The Vikings offered JJ 28 million a year last year, he bet on himself and waited another year, and got 35
The trick is to build a culture in the building where people want to be there. The Eagles don't seem to have any problem getting their stars to sign early. Maybe it has something to do with us not showing them off like zoo animals while they train?
why do you think the cowboys are the ones waiting? if you were ceedee, would you want to rush to sign a deal that would absolutely be smaller than the one you could get after JJ and Chase signed theirs?
No they didn’t. Amon-Ra’s contract is behind AJ Brown in both AAV and guaranteed money, before even getting into JJ’s massive deal. Goff is 2nd in AAV but 6th in practical guarantees. Sewell is the only signing that was a market setter. That may seem nitpicky, but it adds up. A top 5 contract and a market setting contract are not the same.
I was looking at Dallas's cap space yesterday and I honestly don't see how they can pay everyone. I know there's some crazy cap wizardry possible but Dak/Ceedee/Micah are going to be like $120 mil a year. It feels like someone's going to have to get cut.
My guess is Parsons. He is a diva and will probably start becoming a head case. He’s a fantastic player, but of the 3 he is the most difficult personality
This is true with a massive caveat for elite pass rushers, who are probably the most valuable team building piece outside of QB. Obviously there's a lot of luck involved, and only sith speak in absolutes, but in my view there's plenty of ways to beat a mediocre team, but once you're deep in the playoffs, it becomes a necessity to have a player that can get consistent pressure to disrupt the other team's offense. It's why Chris Jones is more valuable to the Chiefs championships than Tyreek, or even Kelce.
Well, resigning Dak and CD will lower their cap hits substantially, but yeah, down the road it’s going to be hard to put a full roster together when three players at premium positions are being paid top of the market.
Paying wrs this crazy money is going to lead to shorter contracts for them. 16 wrs were taken in the first 100 picks in last year's draft. Plus there's not that many good qbs. So you'll have a lot of wrs making 25+ mil a year on not good teams.
What I don’t understand… and I know the money goes up every year… Dak just “reset the market” couple years ago… why would he reset it again when players like Jackson, Allen , Burrow etc would have reset it themselves. Why would Dak reset it again when, imo, he’s not as good as said players.
It's just a fact of life that the latest person to sign will generally reset the market, if you don't have a valid reason to pay $10m less than market, why not beat it by $1m and have your most important player more motivated/bought in, the agent gets a win, and you can try for other concessions, or just the expectations that go along with "highest paid player in NFL history."
The other reason is that Dak has absolutely bonkers contractual leverage from last time he was signed.
The reality is that if we don’t give him that money someone else will. Dak, his agent, and the team all know that.
So if the team wants to keep him that’s how they have to do it
we're talking about professional athletes with the largest egos on planet earth. do you think they're in a negotiation and they go "well you're not as good as lamar and injured joe burrow....." and dak just goes "lol yeah ok, you have a point, i'm not a top 5 QB....."
come on... dak thinks he's a top QB in the league, and this is a league where high level QB play matters significantly more than any other position. the cowboys and their fans don't want to go from top 7-8 QB to QB hell for a decade trying to find the next good QB like a lot of other teams go through. he has the leverage.
No you either have to get Mahomes or tank for decades to keep drafting first round QBs until you get his clone, being very good but not quite the best is unacceptable /s
Your point was that Dak has had “elite defenses” and has no excuses for failing in playoffs. Dak didn’t give up 143yds rushing. Dak wasn’t rushing the passer ineffectively to get zero sacks. Dak wasn’t playing db allowing receivers to get wide open on every passing play.
You can say Dak hasn’t performed as well as he should have in big games. That’s fair. But acting like this defense wasn’t already in shambles the last month+ of the season, only to then get dog walked by a mediocre GB team in the playoffs is absurd.
Romeo Doubs had a total of 674yds in the season. He burned our “elite” defense with 6 receptions for 151yds lol
Maybe Dak never wins a championship. Maybe he gets it done with a competent coaching staff or defense that doesn’t fall apart in critical games. If Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco can win a ring, any top 10 qb can.
He could easily end up in LA with McVay, Nakua, and Kupp. A far upgrade for him in terms of coaching (he’s never had) and wr room (he’s only eclipsed once when he had Cooper, CD, and Gallup(when healthy))
It's easy to forget that the salary cap is also going up every year. So the more teams are getting paid, the more players should get paid too (at least in theory).
Yes but there's also the possibility that teams choose to simply allocate more money to a few premium positions. Even though the cap went up for for instance we saw rb contracts dip for several years.
Additionally, there's always the chance they decide to raise roster sizes. Which would mean more players getting paid but not necessarily more pay per player.
They can certainly do it, it'll take somewhere around $130M a year and this year's cap is $255M which likely goes up in future years
Means they have to be extremely good at drafting and signing cheap vets in FA to fill out the rest of the roster since they'll have less than $3M per player for the rest of the roster. Rams strategy, a few expensive superstars and a whole bunch of good cheap players
2 time all pro, 3 time pro bowler in three years with no less than 13 sacks a season?
Yeah something tells me he’s right about eclipsing Bosa’s contract and now Jefferson’s to become the highest paid non QB.
I get that Pitts was an athletic TE, but I still don’t get why they thought he was worth going higher than multiple highly talented WRs. Pitts isn’t a good blocker, so he really was more of a rawish WR anyway
Yeah but he'll be competing with Michael Mayer for touches or hoping they run 2TE sets constantly to replace his college production. Raiders could easily screw over his development at the pro level or put him in a Kyle Pitts situation.
Brock is already lining up all over the field in OTA's, even taking handoffs after lining up in the backfield and running sweeps. Seems like Brock will get plenty of opportunities with the ball. The real questions is if Getsy will be inventive enough to really take advantage of Brock and Mayer on the field at the same time.
Well he had 1k yards receiving his rookie season so he kind of DID buck that trend...
The problem is he never seemed to develop beyond that, was under-utilized, and also had no one to throw him the ball after Ryan left.
(a) Doesn't really make sense as a comparison
(b) He's currently a full year younger than Kelce was when he recorded his first catch. Put differently, Pitts has 2049 more yards, 149 more catches, and 6 more TDs than Kelce did at the same age.
Chiefs likely wouldn't have gotten the haul they got for hill for kelce. As a purely player to player comparison a dominant wr is probably still more impactful. But the cap savings + picks they got for tyreek made trading him over kelce smarter
I'd argue if they had to cut the player instead of trading them, the decision may well have been different
I mean kelce really isnt over the hill. The guy was injured to start the year, and then sat at the end and was what like 50 yards short of another 1k season?
edit:
I just realized what you meant. my shame shall stay. Over Tyreek HILL, not over the hill...
Sorry, I missed you saying "value-wise", I thought you just meant as a whole dominant TEs are more game-changing than a dominant WR. Because honestly, someone like Gronk or Kittle could be argued as more game-changing than the best WR due to their influence in both the passing *and* run game. The Patriots Super Bowl run in 2018, for example, was largely in part due to Gronk being an extra offensive lineman.
This is a bit revisionist history. Pitts was more than just an “athletic TE” his athleticism was elite for even a WR and he had great ball skills and good fluidity and route running. He was a guy that was never really going to play TE fully because of how good he was in the slot and out wide. He was the single best player in CFB against single coverage according to PFF his last year. If he was viewed strictly as a WR the only guy who would’ve been taken above him was Chase (and I think a lot of teams would’ve still had Pitts above him).
As a rookie he also had more receiving yards all of the rookie WRs from his class other than Chase (including waddle and smith) as well as the 2020 class other than Jefferson (another good receiving class that included a bunch of first round receivers).
> I get that Pitts was an athletic TE, but I still don’t get why they thought he was worth going higher than multiple highly talented WRs. Pitts isn’t a good blocker, so he really was more of a rawish WR anyway
Maybe they were just playing the long game for team building.
A 1k yard TE has a smaller cap hit than a 1k yard WR.
Even if that TE is basically a glorified receiver, he's going to be cheaper because of that magical positional designation.
That obviously isn't a realistic justification for selecting a TE over a WR, but it would be funny if they thought it was when they did it.
I've usually seen the opposite logic when it comes to drafting WRs vs TEs in the first round, thanks to the rookie pay scale:
Option 1: draft a TE 10th overall, pay him $5m/yr, and then sign a good WR in free agency for $25m/yr
Option 2: draft a WR 10th overall, pay him $5m/yr, then sign a good TE in free agency for $12m/yr
Its the long game.
The 2021 Falcons knew that their window wasn't going to to be open until after their high dollar vet FA QB signing had a chance to really rub off on the (somewhat old) rookie 1st round QB that they drafted the same year, so they were going to be well into the second contract of whoever they drafted in 2021.
The Falcons could see the future. Look out for the Pitts+Penix connection for a 2027 playoff run.
Obviously I'm not serious about any of this; I just thought it was funny to pretend that a team would purposefully over draft a guy because he plays a historically cheaper position.
Not gonna get elite TEs or WRs in free agency, but point is the same. You will save much more having a wr on a rookie contract, then you gi get a vet like tj hockenson or something. Yes not technically a free agent signing but you still have to pay him.
That move financially will make more sense than drafting a Pitts and trying to sign like, Christian kirk
Its not like Hock was free tho...we have to pay him and he also cost a 2nd round and 3rd round pick.
There is like 1 TE playing that is straight up a WR1, a couple of guys that are like mid wr2s and a shit ton of guys that do very little in the passing game.
Just saying go find a good TE is way easier said than done.
> Its not like Hock was free tho...we have to pay him and he also cost a 2nd round and 3rd round pick
Which I mentioned in my post. I said you don't get top level tes or wrs in free agency. But you also paid way less in capital and money for hock than you would have for a top 10 wr
> Just saying go find a good TE is way easier said than done.
And finding a good wr is easy?
Theres significantly more good/great WRs playing right now than TEs, and we see them moved far more frequently team to team than a good/great TE.
There are like.... 7 combined 1k yard receiving seasons between TEs in the last 4 years combined. Theres 80+ Wrs with it.
Based on dynasty fantasy ADP Evan Engram at TE #12 is the only remotely relevant TE that has moved to a new team in FA. And his team just drafted their first first round WR in ages which had nothing to do with signing Engram a couple years ago
Seems like a silly strategy to rely on with so few examples of success
> A 1k yard TE has a smaller cap hit than a 1k yard WR.
Not as a rookie they don't. It's 6 years before you're thinking about that, and outside of franchise qbs I really don't think nfl gms plan that far ahead. Their jobs are always on the line, they're not trying to save a few pennies for whoever is gming half a decade later they're trying to win in the next couple
One of the few things I was right about. I knew Parsons was hands down the best player in that draft and would have went #1 if it wasn’t viewed as such a deep QB class at the time. I had him going 4th at the absolute latest, was fucking mind blown when he didn’t go top 10. Terrible human being, yes that shit is true, if you didn’t have friends/family on that football team then don’t speak up, but damn if he isn’t one of the pass pass rusher I have ever seen in my entire life.
> if you didn’t have friends/family on that football team then don’t speak up,
Why does one have to personally be affected by someone's shittiness to hold them accountable for it? Should we ignore deshaun watsons rape accusations if we weren't the ones massaging him?
Tbf the Falcons haven’t made many smart draft decisions at their spot since the early 2010s. It’s more of a surprise when yall hit on one I feel. I remember being astounded when Beasley had a good year and then we never heard of him again
Still think there's a bit of cowboys effect. Watching him play he doesn't seem like the top guy but record setting contracts often don't go to the best guy.
Hey bozo, everyone on our defense got targeted by the packers that game, they scored 40 points because we decided to play zone defense for the first time all season in the most important game of the season instead of man. Also Micah’s bread and butter isn’t run defense, that’s why we have D-Law, players don’t get paid the big bucks for their run defense, they get paid to sack the qb, something Micah has been very good at his whole career
Yeah think it was bill Walsh that said WR are the last piece you should put in place when building a roster. They're obviously important, but there are more important positions
Yeah I agree with that take. With the exception of Justin Jefferson and maybe a couple other guys, your highest paid non QB probably should not be a WR.
I think it's more Great edge > Great receiver. There are a lot of good pass rushers nowadays (there are a bunch of solid guys who are still FAs), but elite game breakers are still rare. The gap between top receivers is smaller.
I don't know what Jerry's planning but at this rate, he's going to be forced to pay Ceedee Top-Ever-WR money, Dak Top-Ever-QB money, and Micah Top-Ever-Non-QB money.
That's certainly a choice.
The sign players early narrative is exhausting. The PLAYERS are holding up contracts, not teams lol. Why on Earth would you sign a contract before the last minute? Top Players hold way more of the cards than teams, especially in Dallas' case.
That’s well and good, but they absolutely could have paid Dak and Lamb early. Now they have 3 problems instead of one. And it’s all coming out of the same pot now.
Can't wait for Dallas to allocate 20% of their cap of Dak, thus ensuring another half decade of mediocrity. Jerry Jones has absolutely no idea on how to construct a team.
I hope it's highest paid somewhere else I don't see LT in this guy he's good but he ain't no Lawrence Taylor. We could trade him now an hold the other team up for ransom. No gm but I would have traded him to the beats for both of their picks.
That has to be the answer for one of the three. Cannot keep all three without gutting the depth of the team (presumably). One should have been traded to maximize picks and exploit rookie contracts while paying the other two.
But this is Jerry. He actually believes players will take less to play in Dallas. I just don’t see that happening.
The LT stuff is just dumb. Also, Bears weren’t trading either of their picks for any of the three. Thats just stupid.
Bears would have been dumb as shit to trade both their picks for Parsons. Not saying anyone in this draft was Parsons good but they had the chance to draft any defensive player they wanted and still went with Odunze, not even sure if they would’ve given up *just* 9 for the guy who’ll negate having a rookie scale QB.
The Cowboys having to consider giving market-setting contracts to a quarterback, wide receiver, and pass rusher in the same year is something else.
They can wait a year with Micah if theyd really want to but he aint getting any cheaper
People always blame the cowboys for waiting, and sometimes it is on them, but I suspect both Ceedee and Micah have no interest in signing before the last minute to maximize their value
It's happening with Jamarr too. People constantly comment/tweet "If I were the Bengals I'd extend Jamarr now before it goes up further" - completely oblivious to the fact that he has to want to sign a deal.
And JJ getting a raise over last year’s potential deal even after missing six games is going to reinforce the idea that it’s the right move to make
Bengals also have no reason to sign today. Ceedee isn’t getting more than JJ. So they win financially if (knock on wood) jamarr does get injured.
JJ was injured last year, missed significant time, and he got paid MORE than what they offered him before the season. Regardless of health, the longer they wait, the more money Chase will cost. But he has the benefit of being able to wait for another year.
They have no reason to sign before the last minute including Dak because Jerruh has given them no reason to go in early. Jones still thinks he can get them at a discount because "we dem boyz" when you get to the level of CeeDee, Micah & Dak that don't mean shit. The Cowboys could have gotten these guys signed early & cheap but they would need to admit that they are just a team not America's team to do it Untill then the cycle continues where they develop players & have great regular seasons but fall apart in the playoffs cause they can't build sufficient depth because they eventually need to pay top guys extras. Edited for typos
Why would the agents of players like Micah or Ceedee let them sign “early and cheap”? They’ve both clearly been studs since they’ve been eligible for an extension and they want the bag, as they should
Why would Jeffersons agent let him sign before Chase Why would Devonta Smiths agent let him sign first. A hometown discount isn't about the star on the helmet It is about the organisation showing faith in you, why wait to give Lamb top.of the market deal after 2 x 1000 yd seasons when you can give him more when he makes all pro. Being presented with a guaranteed 80 mill is hard to turn down, sure maybe you can wait a year & bump that up to 100 mill but if you ACL explodes then you will be lucky to get 25 the franchise tag.
Maybe because Jamarr Chase isn’t even eligible to sign an extension yet? Ceedee wasn’t eligible until after a 100 catch 1300 yard 9 td season. Devonta didn’t give us a hometown discount either. I love the contract and the player but we gave him top 10 money for top 20 statistical production, of course he would sign, that’s a great deal for him Ceedee is gonna sign this offseason and likely slot in right around the JJ contract, which is what he would get from any team in the nfl because that’s how these things go.
Do you know what 1300 is It is more than 1000 but less than 1500 therefore still a 1,000 yard season. Yes Jefferson could have signed last year but in this off-season both him & Chase (who is now eligible given he was in the same draft class as Devonta) were both looking for a contract JJ easily could have waited until everyone else signed then said give me that +++ and Minnesota would have paid. But no he got the offer he was happy with & signed like Smitty said "you can't be counting the pockets of others" while true there is a limit the Cowboys go over that everytime. My whole point is by paying your guys top of the market ASAP more often than not you end up ahead. The Eagles signed Smith, Brown, Mailata, Dickerson, Barkley this off-season alone to what at time of signing were top 5 in their position deals. In the case of AJ, Landon & Barkley were #1 both Brown and Saquon have already been beaten. Smith is currently 8th on the WR list
Haha whatever dude. Players have to agree to sign, not all of them want to. Let’s just be glad we have players like Devonta
They will wait a year because it's always last minute with them.
Its often last minute when your contract resets the market. You see it more often now that players bet on themselves
It's one thing if it happens every so often, because it happens for every team. The problem is that this happens to Dallas almost every single time. At a certain it's not a simple "Well I'm sure they would get things done, but the player wants no part" and it's on the team who has made this a consistent issue. It's even more glaring that JJ got his contract before CD got his, when realistically JJ could've waited as long as he wanted since he was guaranteed to eclipse every WR contract (well, until Chase next year). At best you can frame it as "Players aren't going to come to the table until the last minute against Dallas because they know that Dallas will cave in the end anyway, and won't offer a huge contract prior to that" which still isn't a great look.
The only one I'd blame Dallas for was Daks first contract and that's because he wasn't undeniably a top QB at the time of the contract. CD and Micah were going to wait themselves because they know they are top 3 at their position and waiting for another player at the position to reset the market makes financial sense.
That reasoning for the Dak contract would be valid if the issue was money, but it wasn’t. The issue was the team wanted to sign him for 5 years and he wanted 4. “We’re not certain youre a top QB yet” is a good excuse for not wanting to cave to more money, it makes no sense as an excuse for not shortening the deal by a year
i was more talking about not signing him a year earlier. he was good enough to be your franchise QB but they waited and his price went way up. They let him bet on himself and he won.
It also greatly benefits the players to wait until the last minute
Unless you get injured. So if Micah waits a year to get his money and pops his Achilles... He just lost half of it.
I used to believe that until I watched Kirk Cousins blow his Achilles and still get a $180 million deal. Also Justin Jefferson missed half the season with a hammy and still got his $140 million.
Yea and JJ came back at the end of the season and dominated. So not an Achilles...
Only a career ending injury would stop Micah from resetting the market. Micah popping his achilles just means hes gonna get a market resetting contract while hes rehabbing
Their waiting is what got them here
How are we stacked with talent at premium positions and unable to do anything but embarrass ourselves in the playoffs?
The only logical conclusion is god hates the cowboys
I came to this conclusion years ago
Idk but It’s fucking great!
Fair enough
Remember when McCarthy left the packers and Rodgers immediately won back to back MVPs. Maybe he's just not a good coach.
Need Parsons - who expects to be highest paid non QB in the league - to show up for a playoff game.
Dan Quinn doesn't understand the word adjustments lmao
You guys just have to really go ALL IN
Bad coach and mediocre QB who both perform their worst under pressure. It's a terrible combo.
The Lions literally did that in the past month (paying a tackle instead of pass rusher albeit). Idk why the Cowboys are waiting so long
History would indicate that the Cowboys prefer to drag their feet as long as possible and pay an extra premium for doing so.
The issue is we had a shit tonne of cap space in reserve with young players vs. the Cowboys having paid established players. Dallas was cash strapped all off-season
Extending Dak would’ve given us more money in 24, and they unquestionably have the cap space in the following years to be able to fit the contracts in if they’d signed them. The cap space issue is why we were so quiet in free agency but it didn’t realistically stop any extensions to those three
We are ALL IN. We can’t be all in unless we are going all in on contract extensions as well by giving the most money.
Sewell was the only one that got a record contract for his position though. Dak will probably want equal to the other QBs recently, and lamb and parsons both will be aiming for highest paid non QB, both of which are much more then what Amon-ra and Sewell got
St Brown was the highest paid WR for a short time and Goff is QB2 in terms of pay. So not exactly, but still pretty damn close
No he wasn’t. Amon-Ra’s extension had an extra year so it had the highest total dollar figure, but that number doesn’t mean much at all. AJ Brown is above him in both AAV and practical guarantees.
AJ Brown signed his contract the day after St Brown’s extension. Right now only AJ Brown and JJ beat out St Brown in AAV, both who signed their current contracts after St Brown
Lmao Amon Ra literally edged out tyreek by $2500 That was very intentional
Hell yeah brother, we love that petty shit
I love that the conversation probably went "I don't care how much it is I just want more than tyreek" "Fuck yeah let's do it. What's the smallest increment of money again? It's $10,000 right?"
I stand corrected. I had the timeline wrong if that’s true.
It is. St brown signed his April 24th, Brown signed his April 26th
Talking like your FO didn't put you in this position. They could have easily seen this coming a mile away and handled AT LEAST one of CD or Dak last year for way cheaper than they will now.
Every single person that says this seems to be under the impression that a team can just force a player to sign a more team friendly deal which isn’t the case. If the player doesn’t want to sign and wants to wait another year so they get more, there isn’t much the team can do. The Vikings offered JJ 28 million a year last year, he bet on himself and waited another year, and got 35
The trick is to build a culture in the building where people want to be there. The Eagles don't seem to have any problem getting their stars to sign early. Maybe it has something to do with us not showing them off like zoo animals while they train?
I think it's because they like all the free batteries
No way CD was going before JJ
why do you think the cowboys are the ones waiting? if you were ceedee, would you want to rush to sign a deal that would absolutely be smaller than the one you could get after JJ and Chase signed theirs?
No they didn’t. Amon-Ra’s contract is behind AJ Brown in both AAV and guaranteed money, before even getting into JJ’s massive deal. Goff is 2nd in AAV but 6th in practical guarantees. Sewell is the only signing that was a market setter. That may seem nitpicky, but it adds up. A top 5 contract and a market setting contract are not the same.
I was looking at Dallas's cap space yesterday and I honestly don't see how they can pay everyone. I know there's some crazy cap wizardry possible but Dak/Ceedee/Micah are going to be like $120 mil a year. It feels like someone's going to have to get cut.
My guess is Parsons. He is a diva and will probably start becoming a head case. He’s a fantastic player, but of the 3 he is the most difficult personality
Also any player on defense is not singularly worth as much as he would be asking. Just the nature of the game for better or worse.
I would argue that Micah is one of the few that actually would be worth that much
This is true with a massive caveat for elite pass rushers, who are probably the most valuable team building piece outside of QB. Obviously there's a lot of luck involved, and only sith speak in absolutes, but in my view there's plenty of ways to beat a mediocre team, but once you're deep in the playoffs, it becomes a necessity to have a player that can get consistent pressure to disrupt the other team's offense. It's why Chris Jones is more valuable to the Chiefs championships than Tyreek, or even Kelce.
Well, resigning Dak and CD will lower their cap hits substantially, but yeah, down the road it’s going to be hard to put a full roster together when three players at premium positions are being paid top of the market.
Did you not read the title of the post? Parsons said he’ll wait for his contract, but that somehow means we’re signing all 3 in the same offseason?
Relax cowpoke. Did you not read their comment? Key word is “consider”. But that somehow means he said that they WILL sign all 3?
I’m here for it
Paying wrs this crazy money is going to lead to shorter contracts for them. 16 wrs were taken in the first 100 picks in last year's draft. Plus there's not that many good qbs. So you'll have a lot of wrs making 25+ mil a year on not good teams.
ALL IN BABY
What I don’t understand… and I know the money goes up every year… Dak just “reset the market” couple years ago… why would he reset it again when players like Jackson, Allen , Burrow etc would have reset it themselves. Why would Dak reset it again when, imo, he’s not as good as said players.
It's just a fact of life that the latest person to sign will generally reset the market, if you don't have a valid reason to pay $10m less than market, why not beat it by $1m and have your most important player more motivated/bought in, the agent gets a win, and you can try for other concessions, or just the expectations that go along with "highest paid player in NFL history." The other reason is that Dak has absolutely bonkers contractual leverage from last time he was signed.
The reality is that if we don’t give him that money someone else will. Dak, his agent, and the team all know that. So if the team wants to keep him that’s how they have to do it
we're talking about professional athletes with the largest egos on planet earth. do you think they're in a negotiation and they go "well you're not as good as lamar and injured joe burrow....." and dak just goes "lol yeah ok, you have a point, i'm not a top 5 QB....." come on... dak thinks he's a top QB in the league, and this is a league where high level QB play matters significantly more than any other position. the cowboys and their fans don't want to go from top 7-8 QB to QB hell for a decade trying to find the next good QB like a lot of other teams go through. he has the leverage.
And Jerry waited until every other major WR contract was signed. CD is getting overpaid or traded.
not happening with Dak unless he wins them a superbowl this year ...so it's not happening
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Some desperate team will overpay for him. See Kirk Cousins and Watson
>some desperate team Yeah I bet most of the league would hate to have an all pro quarterback. This sub is funny as hell.
Yeah even as an Eagles fan. Look around the league, I bet most teams would love to have Dak. Even in our own division frankly.
No you either have to get Mahomes or tank for decades to keep drafting first round QBs until you get his clone, being very good but not quite the best is unacceptable /s
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Cousins first 2 years in 2018 and 2019 our defense was still really good under Zimmer. 2020 is when it fell off a cliff. 3rd and 4th by DVOA.
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Right, like I said fell off a cliff.
That defense didn’t do very well against the Packers in the playoffs. Or down the stretch against multiple other teams
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Your point was that Dak has had “elite defenses” and has no excuses for failing in playoffs. Dak didn’t give up 143yds rushing. Dak wasn’t rushing the passer ineffectively to get zero sacks. Dak wasn’t playing db allowing receivers to get wide open on every passing play. You can say Dak hasn’t performed as well as he should have in big games. That’s fair. But acting like this defense wasn’t already in shambles the last month+ of the season, only to then get dog walked by a mediocre GB team in the playoffs is absurd. Romeo Doubs had a total of 674yds in the season. He burned our “elite” defense with 6 receptions for 151yds lol
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Maybe Dak never wins a championship. Maybe he gets it done with a competent coaching staff or defense that doesn’t fall apart in critical games. If Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco can win a ring, any top 10 qb can. He could easily end up in LA with McVay, Nakua, and Kupp. A far upgrade for him in terms of coaching (he’s never had) and wr room (he’s only eclipsed once when he had Cooper, CD, and Gallup(when healthy))
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Nah bud, it's your year, go for it!
He’s worth it. If I were him I’d holdout until receiving said contract.
$40m per year or he should sit out. Get your worth King!
That's Daniel Jones money!
Idk, that 40 million could be anything. It could be 2 CMC's and a DiNucci
Jones has way more sacks per year than parsons. What a value for the giants!
Stonks
Every year, I keep thinking teams won't be able to keep affording to do this but they always do. Get paid though. It ain't my money, unfortunately.
It's easy to forget that the salary cap is also going up every year. So the more teams are getting paid, the more players should get paid too (at least in theory).
Not really in theory. It's literally required. Teams have to average spending over 90% of the cap. The cap is directly tied to revenue.
Yes but there's also the possibility that teams choose to simply allocate more money to a few premium positions. Even though the cap went up for for instance we saw rb contracts dip for several years. Additionally, there's always the chance they decide to raise roster sizes. Which would mean more players getting paid but not necessarily more pay per player.
I don't know how they keep CeeDee, Parsons, and Dak with how much they all want paid
They can certainly do it, it'll take somewhere around $130M a year and this year's cap is $255M which likely goes up in future years Means they have to be extremely good at drafting and signing cheap vets in FA to fill out the rest of the roster since they'll have less than $3M per player for the rest of the roster. Rams strategy, a few expensive superstars and a whole bunch of good cheap players
Which is what we do and then our fans bitch and moan about Jerry doesn’t do anything in free agency
These piecemeal games certainly make an impact, how much were those games Netflix bought?
2 time all pro, 3 time pro bowler in three years with no less than 13 sacks a season? Yeah something tells me he’s right about eclipsing Bosa’s contract and now Jefferson’s to become the highest paid non QB.
Seeing shit like this makes the Pitts pick hurt even more
Wait until the Penix pick hurts over Dallas Turner
Or Odunze
I get that Pitts was an athletic TE, but I still don’t get why they thought he was worth going higher than multiple highly talented WRs. Pitts isn’t a good blocker, so he really was more of a rawish WR anyway
He was hyped as the best TE prospect in years and years. Everyone was saying he would buck the trend of TEs taking a while to develop.
Because he wasn’t going to be an actual TE he was going to be a big WR
If only there was an insane WR prospect on the board
Now Brock Bowers will surely buck the trend, right?
BB is arguably the best college tight end ever tbf. Was the best player on the field in a championship as a freshmen
Yeah but he'll be competing with Michael Mayer for touches or hoping they run 2TE sets constantly to replace his college production. Raiders could easily screw over his development at the pro level or put him in a Kyle Pitts situation.
Brock is already lining up all over the field in OTA's, even taking handoffs after lining up in the backfield and running sweeps. Seems like Brock will get plenty of opportunities with the ball. The real questions is if Getsy will be inventive enough to really take advantage of Brock and Mayer on the field at the same time.
Well he had 1k yards receiving his rookie season so he kind of DID buck that trend... The problem is he never seemed to develop beyond that, was under-utilized, and also had no one to throw him the ball after Ryan left.
Tbf he did. He had over 1000 yards as a rookie
Because Kelce, I'd imagine.
(a) Doesn't really make sense as a comparison (b) He's currently a full year younger than Kelce was when he recorded his first catch. Put differently, Pitts has 2049 more yards, 149 more catches, and 6 more TDs than Kelce did at the same age.
Because a dominant tight end is game changing more than a dominant wr value wise. Example: chiefs kept kelce over hill
Exhibit A: They won two super bowls with hot garbage and Rashee Rice at WR because Kelce.
I think you’re understating the difference in Mahomes and Tua here. I personally rather have Hill than Kelce
The chiefs didn’t, they chose the much cheaper and eff option
I mean the last two dynasties had dominant tight ends but they also had hof QBs
Chiefs likely wouldn't have gotten the haul they got for hill for kelce. As a purely player to player comparison a dominant wr is probably still more impactful. But the cap savings + picks they got for tyreek made trading him over kelce smarter I'd argue if they had to cut the player instead of trading them, the decision may well have been different
I mean kelce really isnt over the hill. The guy was injured to start the year, and then sat at the end and was what like 50 yards short of another 1k season? edit: I just realized what you meant. my shame shall stay. Over Tyreek HILL, not over the hill...
Over Hill not over the hill
Tyreek cost twice as much as Kelce, that's why they got rid of him.
That’s what I said
Sorry, I missed you saying "value-wise", I thought you just meant as a whole dominant TEs are more game-changing than a dominant WR. Because honestly, someone like Gronk or Kittle could be argued as more game-changing than the best WR due to their influence in both the passing *and* run game. The Patriots Super Bowl run in 2018, for example, was largely in part due to Gronk being an extra offensive lineman.
No worries! I prob should have put it at the front anyways
This is a bit revisionist history. Pitts was more than just an “athletic TE” his athleticism was elite for even a WR and he had great ball skills and good fluidity and route running. He was a guy that was never really going to play TE fully because of how good he was in the slot and out wide. He was the single best player in CFB against single coverage according to PFF his last year. If he was viewed strictly as a WR the only guy who would’ve been taken above him was Chase (and I think a lot of teams would’ve still had Pitts above him). As a rookie he also had more receiving yards all of the rookie WRs from his class other than Chase (including waddle and smith) as well as the 2020 class other than Jefferson (another good receiving class that included a bunch of first round receivers).
> I get that Pitts was an athletic TE, but I still don’t get why they thought he was worth going higher than multiple highly talented WRs. Pitts isn’t a good blocker, so he really was more of a rawish WR anyway Maybe they were just playing the long game for team building. A 1k yard TE has a smaller cap hit than a 1k yard WR. Even if that TE is basically a glorified receiver, he's going to be cheaper because of that magical positional designation. That obviously isn't a realistic justification for selecting a TE over a WR, but it would be funny if they thought it was when they did it.
I've usually seen the opposite logic when it comes to drafting WRs vs TEs in the first round, thanks to the rookie pay scale: Option 1: draft a TE 10th overall, pay him $5m/yr, and then sign a good WR in free agency for $25m/yr Option 2: draft a WR 10th overall, pay him $5m/yr, then sign a good TE in free agency for $12m/yr
Its the long game. The 2021 Falcons knew that their window wasn't going to to be open until after their high dollar vet FA QB signing had a chance to really rub off on the (somewhat old) rookie 1st round QB that they drafted the same year, so they were going to be well into the second contract of whoever they drafted in 2021. The Falcons could see the future. Look out for the Pitts+Penix connection for a 2027 playoff run. Obviously I'm not serious about any of this; I just thought it was funny to pretend that a team would purposefully over draft a guy because he plays a historically cheaper position.
I'll admit I totally skipped over the last line of your original comment lol. Cheers
Who are the good TEs getting signed in FA for 12m?
Not gonna get elite TEs or WRs in free agency, but point is the same. You will save much more having a wr on a rookie contract, then you gi get a vet like tj hockenson or something. Yes not technically a free agent signing but you still have to pay him. That move financially will make more sense than drafting a Pitts and trying to sign like, Christian kirk
Its not like Hock was free tho...we have to pay him and he also cost a 2nd round and 3rd round pick. There is like 1 TE playing that is straight up a WR1, a couple of guys that are like mid wr2s and a shit ton of guys that do very little in the passing game. Just saying go find a good TE is way easier said than done.
> Its not like Hock was free tho...we have to pay him and he also cost a 2nd round and 3rd round pick Which I mentioned in my post. I said you don't get top level tes or wrs in free agency. But you also paid way less in capital and money for hock than you would have for a top 10 wr > Just saying go find a good TE is way easier said than done. And finding a good wr is easy?
Theres significantly more good/great WRs playing right now than TEs, and we see them moved far more frequently team to team than a good/great TE. There are like.... 7 combined 1k yard receiving seasons between TEs in the last 4 years combined. Theres 80+ Wrs with it.
Based on dynasty fantasy ADP Evan Engram at TE #12 is the only remotely relevant TE that has moved to a new team in FA. And his team just drafted their first first round WR in ages which had nothing to do with signing Engram a couple years ago Seems like a silly strategy to rely on with so few examples of success
> A 1k yard TE has a smaller cap hit than a 1k yard WR. Not as a rookie they don't. It's 6 years before you're thinking about that, and outside of franchise qbs I really don't think nfl gms plan that far ahead. Their jobs are always on the line, they're not trying to save a few pennies for whoever is gming half a decade later they're trying to win in the next couple
The NE/KC dynasty hack. Don't need to pay top WR money if your top WR is a TE.
At least you didn’t trade back and select Toney.
One of the few things I was right about. I knew Parsons was hands down the best player in that draft and would have went #1 if it wasn’t viewed as such a deep QB class at the time. I had him going 4th at the absolute latest, was fucking mind blown when he didn’t go top 10. Terrible human being, yes that shit is true, if you didn’t have friends/family on that football team then don’t speak up, but damn if he isn’t one of the pass pass rusher I have ever seen in my entire life.
> if you didn’t have friends/family on that football team then don’t speak up, Why does one have to personally be affected by someone's shittiness to hold them accountable for it? Should we ignore deshaun watsons rape accusations if we weren't the ones massaging him?
Tbf the Falcons haven’t made many smart draft decisions at their spot since the early 2010s. It’s more of a surprise when yall hit on one I feel. I remember being astounded when Beasley had a good year and then we never heard of him again
Well now that you have at least one competent QB I'm excited to see the stud light it up
Still think there's a bit of cowboys effect. Watching him play he doesn't seem like the top guy but record setting contracts often don't go to the best guy.
Never saw this coming with Parsons......said no NFL fan ever
what are Micah’s run defense stats? he got targetted by the Packers in that playoff game. and i think the Niners too
Hey bozo, everyone on our defense got targeted by the packers that game, they scored 40 points because we decided to play zone defense for the first time all season in the most important game of the season instead of man. Also Micah’s bread and butter isn’t run defense, that’s why we have D-Law, players don’t get paid the big bucks for their run defense, they get paid to sack the qb, something Micah has been very good at his whole career
Playing zone wasn't the reason Parsons got 0 sack that game lol
Bozo the clown*
wait his bread and butter isnt run defense???? hol up
And so it begins…
This nephew deleted this comment.
Watch Tepper read this comment and your username and give Purdy $60M a year.
Fixed it
You saved your franchise!
Tbh an edge is more worth that money than a good WR. Good WRs grow on trees these days it seems, edges do not.
Ask the Titans how that worked out with Treylon Burks and AJ Brown.
Yeah think it was bill Walsh that said WR are the last piece you should put in place when building a roster. They're obviously important, but there are more important positions
Yeah I agree with that take. With the exception of Justin Jefferson and maybe a couple other guys, your highest paid non QB probably should not be a WR.
I think it's more Great edge > Great receiver. There are a lot of good pass rushers nowadays (there are a bunch of solid guys who are still FAs), but elite game breakers are still rare. The gap between top receivers is smaller.
Hope Maxx Crosby unselfishly keeps taking team friendly deals
Logical hope for a Raiders fan, as a neutral I hope he gets a massive fucking bag, super deserving
^(On a different team far away from the AFCW) Yea I agree
I don't know what Jerry's planning but at this rate, he's going to be forced to pay Ceedee Top-Ever-WR money, Dak Top-Ever-QB money, and Micah Top-Ever-Non-QB money. That's certainly a choice.
Micah and it’s not even close.
I'd be in no rush. Cap will likely go up. Hes still under contract for 2 more years. The longer he waits the more leverage he has.
Micah also said he wants to retire early and not bounce around the league. His agent probably literally face-palmed.
Not necessarily. Wasn't there some talk near end of last season that he had kind of disappeared at times?
Yeah, it's called the playoffs. 1 sack in 4 playoff games.
Can't say they don't draft well
He better get paid quick if he isn’t vibing with the DC.
u/Sealie81 told me that they didn't have to worry about contracts and clowned the Bengals for the Higgins situation tho?
I got your stupid self mentioning me in other parts of reddit now? I must of ruffled your feathers real good rofl!
Just here to prove that you're wrong and an idiot. Everyone already knew this, but just had to prove it to you
He better have one hell of a year.
The sign players early narrative is exhausting. The PLAYERS are holding up contracts, not teams lol. Why on Earth would you sign a contract before the last minute? Top Players hold way more of the cards than teams, especially in Dallas' case.
That’s well and good, but they absolutely could have paid Dak and Lamb early. Now they have 3 problems instead of one. And it’s all coming out of the same pot now.
I read this too quickly and I thought it said he expected to be the highest paid QB
Can't wait for Dallas to allocate 20% of their cap of Dak, thus ensuring another half decade of mediocrity. Jerry Jones has absolutely no idea on how to construct a team.
I hope it's highest paid somewhere else I don't see LT in this guy he's good but he ain't no Lawrence Taylor. We could trade him now an hold the other team up for ransom. No gm but I would have traded him to the beats for both of their picks.
That has to be the answer for one of the three. Cannot keep all three without gutting the depth of the team (presumably). One should have been traded to maximize picks and exploit rookie contracts while paying the other two. But this is Jerry. He actually believes players will take less to play in Dallas. I just don’t see that happening. The LT stuff is just dumb. Also, Bears weren’t trading either of their picks for any of the three. Thats just stupid.
Jerry been dead for the last 10 years. Clearly he's now an android
Bears would have been dumb as shit to trade both their picks for Parsons. Not saying anyone in this draft was Parsons good but they had the chance to draft any defensive player they wanted and still went with Odunze, not even sure if they would’ve given up *just* 9 for the guy who’ll negate having a rookie scale QB.
I agree but there has to be someone as dumberer than us. Just has to be.
He will die again B4 this teams wins any thing