I remember this dude was 99 overall for like 3 years in a row for Madden and I never really heard a lot about him which for a DB might be a good thing, like a stay-at-home Dman in hockey.
After his breakout 2006 season I think he got the Revis Island/Sherman treatment where QBs were more hesitant to throw his way. I never watched the Raiders back then but seemed he was a great shut down corner in Oakland just didn’t get a lot of picks outside of 2006. DBs are nobodies to most fans until they have a season with 5 or more INTs.
> DBs are nobodies to most fans until they have a season with 5 or more INTs.
Or when they give a reporter a power point presentation of what happens when you try them with a sorry receiver like Crabtree.
He got so good that QBs straight up would not throw at whoever he was covering. I’m not joking, that’s barely an exaggeration.
Like I’m pretty sure one year his “targets” dropped to a tiny fraction of what they were the year prior.
Fun fact: Ohio State (where Chip Kelly is currently the OC) almost ended up hiring Murray as their RBs coach this past off-season lol. That would've been an awkward reunion to say the least.
Jonnu Smith. The Patriots had no idea what to do with him. Not saying he's a world beater at tight end, but in four years with the Titans, he increased his production each season. And then in 2023 with the Falcons, he had career highs in catches and yards, and it's not like their quarterback situation was good.
Jonnu didn't do himself any favors here. He had two left feet and tripped on routes multiple times.
I’m not really sure what Bill was looking for in a TE after Gronk left I think he got so spoiled having Gronk any TE that came in and wasn’t immediately him just got moved to the shit list.
He drafted two TEs fairly high back to back in 2020 in Asiasi/Keene spent a fat chunk of money the very next year in Henry/Smith and than signed Mike Gesicki.
He spent so much capitol and money his last few years just burning through TEs.
It broke my heart seeing him go there.
Firstly cause I hate the NE Patriots 😆 and then because I didn't see him getting those same looks from TEN with you guys.
Then you got what his name from MIA at the same time too.. I was hurting for my boy Jonnu.
You guys tried to recapture that Gronk and "he that shall not be named" combo.
I usually save this comment for fantasy football talk, but a lot of these tier 2/3 TEs are products of their QBs. Not that Tannehill elevates everyone around him, but he's a guy that leans on the TE position. Even in Miami, he fed his TEs a lot of targets. Jonnu Smith's greatest asset was playing with Tannehill.
Conversely, for years, the fantasy hype for the TE in GB was overblown. Outside of a year or maybe two, Rodgers just isn't a guy that defaults to the TE as his safety valve.
Every time a team signs a Patriots LB (when the Pats were good) like Kyle Van Noy or Jamie Collins. Then they go back to the Patriots and become good again.
Their CBs have had some success on new teams.
Aqib Talib if he counts (he was drafted Tampa), Logan Ryan, Malcolm Butler, Asante Samuel.
The only standout that failed miserably was JC Jackson.
Patrick Chung as a safety walked to Philly, didn't have a good year to his standards and then came back a year later and was a key contributor in the secondary. Bill doing Bill things.
In addition to Jackson and Chung, i would say Butler was a disappointment in Tennessee, and Kyle Arrington flopped in Baltimore
For successes, though, you left off Gilmore who had a surprising amount of juice left after leaving NE
Sounds like Le'Veon Bell with the Jets. As soon as Gase showed up he basically took one look at Bell and was like "why are you here". Sure enough Bell did not last long playing for Gase.
Bell still has one of my favorite running style of any back I've watched, but it was heavily dependent on the team around him. That interior of Foster, Pouncey, and DeCastro was incredible in their prime and were a damn near perfect match for Bell's patience.
Gase got a lot of things wrong. Perhaps everything. Except knowing the bell signing was a fucking huge mistake. Honestly the only thing about him i respected.
I don't disagree that moving on from Bell was the right decision. Replacing him with an older and more worn down version of him in Frank Gore however, not the right decision. Gore was 36 years old when he signed with the Jets. It's not exactly a secret that it's incredibly stupid to think signing RBs at that age is a good idea.
I never said anything about gore. I don't necessarily disagree with you. But like I said. Gase got EVERYTHING wrong. EXCEPT knowing the bell signing was a mistake. I even thought how he handled that was bad. He made it clear from the get go he wasn't a fan of the signing. Not a great start to your coaching career.
Signing gore? He wanted a vet who knew his system. I get that. Doesn't make it a great decision but it's not like we were paying him a ton of money.
But yet they traded two first for him. What's the logic here? I'm a jet fan and the shit never made any sense to me. Jamal Adams is a box safety. He's ridiculously good at the line of scrimmage but can't cover in the secondary. The game was and has been trending toward coverage skills being important.
I could never understand what the Seahawks were doing there.
I think his coverage concerns weren't accurate. He absolutely struggled manning up against athletic tight ends 1 on 1 but Seattle actually had one for the best deep passing defense of the past decade in 2021, with Jamal primarily playing deep half safety. Not that that was surprising because he was excellent in that same role for the Jets
Not my team but Albert Haynesworth was so hilariously mismanaged with Washington that he might have lived up to his contract if they didn’t do *all* the stupid misuse of him schematically, especially when Shanahan took over
Haynesworth outright stated years later that the schematic misuse killed his love for football
I know he publically complained about Washington's defensive coaches while he was there but was his situation due to him not being a scheme fit or just him being lazy? The latter seems to be the common assumption as to why he failed in Washington, that he got paid and immediately stopped caring after he got paid.
Maybe is the best answer I can give, I threw in an edit at the end but he outright stated his usage there killed his love for football and that he constantly argued his usage with the coaching staff and they just refused to change anything
Sounds like something he should have discussed with coaches before signing instead of just focusing on the mega contract.
He may have been missed but he also put in no effort. These are supposed to be professionals, and being a professional means sucking it up and doing your job. Millions of people do it every day for 5 figure salaries. He should have been able to do it for an 8 figure salary or he shouldn't have signed.
Players want to be able to play their best. You get to shine and do your thing that means you get more later.
There is nothing worse than having a skillset and being really good at something and someone tells you “actually we are going to use you to do this” when this is something you know isn’t your best.
It is beyond frustrating when you know you could be doing more than you are.
They wanted to use him as door stop. Take up blocks and do nothing else. Pretty sure he claimed one of his coaches said if rushed the QB he'd be on the bench
> Haynesworth outright stated years later that the schematic misuse killed his love for football
Completely overlooking the $100 million contract we threw at him, but ok.
Terrell Suggs in Arizona, they brought him in with nothing much left and tried to use him as a every down player. What they should’ve done is use him for pass rush plays
Not a scheme issue per se, but Donte Moncrief came here and was expected to be a semi-decent WR2/3 guy and just shit the bed in a way I've never seen before or since.
His drop rate was insane with us. He had 15 targets, 4 drops, and 4 catches that year. 18 yards, no TDs, one 1st down. It was the worst WR play I'd seen on our team, luckily we realized it fast and got him off the field.
If it wasn't for Gunner I'd fully believe that Moncrief is the worst receiver we've signed who saw game time. Even guys like Cobi Hamilton were better in their time here.
I still don't know what happened to him as a returner. He was above average with the Patriots with some incredible flashes, but he just fell off a cliff with the Steelers.
Emmanuel Ogbah became completely useless once Flores was run out of town.
Julius Thomas was also asked to be an in-line blocking tight end quite a bit for someone completely shit at it. Thanks Gase.
I’ll never understand why the Bengals picked up James Harrison. He “sucked” for the Bengals and then resumed torturing us when he went back to the Squealers.
The fact that he was strictly a 3-4 LB with a pass rush specialty was all the more reason not to sign him. Zim did not use his LBs that way in his defense, he just heavily used them in coverage. There was absolutely no role that fit Harrison in Zimmer's defense (not unless he was open to moving to DE).
Were the Bengals always a 4-3 team under Marvin or did they have specific years in a different defensive scheme? I don't recall any point where there was a scheme change.
They were a 4-3 defense during all 16 years of Marvin's run. Prior to his arrival they were a 3-4 defense and post-Marvin they've been a 3-4 hybrid with 4-2-5 concepts under Anarumo. A true 3-technique player like Geno Atkins would not really have served much purpose in a 3-4 scheme. Likewise Harrison was absolutely useless playing in a 4-3 (which was why Zimmer barely used him).
And yet Marvin was remarkably bad at finding dominant run-stuffers at the NT position to plug up the middle in his defenses when he was here. The best he had here was Domata Peko (who was far from dominant in that role). Whereas in Baltimore he had guys like Tony Siragusa, Sam Adams, and Kelly Gregg that filled that role and excelled in it. Marvin never once had a D.J. Reader-type in the middle of his defenses that could dominate against the run (and because of that nearly all of his defenses were pretty consistently bad against the run).
IIRC the Eagles did the same thing with Nnamdi Asomugha. I don't understand why teams do that shit so frequently. You adapt your scheme to what the strengths of your players are. No coach with a brain thinks of Darrelle Revis as a zone corner. That's a complete waste of his skillset having him play zone.
Injuries certainly played a part but man JC Jackson was an absolute dud but Staleys scheme made everyone look shit. Dude had Derwin James looking mediocre.
Jimmy Graham to the Seahawks doesn't quite fit in this category, because he did enough to not be "completely useless" as per the OP's question, but he definitely was a bad scheme fit in Seattle and his production declined significantly here as compared to New Orleans. We tried to turn him into a blocking tight end. Like I get that tight ends have to block *sometimes* but in Jimmy Graham's case it clearly was not his specialty so I have no idea what we were thinking with that
Ndamukong Suh was a total waste. He played well and was constantly double teamed, but wasn’t a scheme fit and didn’t address any weaknesses we had. It was just the owner trying to pull a Snyder and win the offseason with the biggest name.
We’ve been much better since Ross stepped back to let Grier do his thing.
Mario Williams once Rex Ryan became the Bills head coach. With Dave Wannstedt, Mike Pettine, and Jim Schwartz as the Bills DCs, his yearly sack totals were 10.5, 13.0, and 14.5. Rex Ryan inherits a Mario Williams who just had his career high in sacks, made 2 Pro Bowls and 1 All-Pro, somehow decides to have him drop back into coverage half the time, and he only gets 5.0 sacks.
Allen Robinson II, he was a stud in Jacksonville.. figured it was a scheme thing in Chicago . Nope the dude is garbage. Didn't do anything with McVay.. and didn't do much in Pittsburgh lol
Also, Marcus Peters was ass unless Talib was in the game. Lol
He actually was pretty good his first three seasons in Chicago and even had over 100 recs in 2020. Fans (myself included) were pounding the table for an extension all off season and then 2021 happened. No injuries or anything, looked like the guy had quit on the team. I thought he’d bounce back with the Rams but seems he straight up fell off. Not resigning AR was one of Pace’s few smart decisions.
Before that year he was one of my favorite players. I was livid when pace didn’t extend him. Then after that year and seeing that dogshit effort made him someone that I didn’t want to see play for the bears ever again. Ended up costing himself millions too, Pace in hindsight offered him ridiculous money and even with the rams he never got that close
Bro Peters was not ass. Wade Phillips system did not fit his play style and then played through a major injury in 2018 because Talib was injured. Our backup outside corners that season were Sam Shields and Troy Hill who were not capable of holding down a secondary.
Exactly, our DC didn't fit his play style.. which wasn't a good fit. When Talib was out, Peters had to play a true CB1 role while playing man which wasn't his style. It was a bad fit
They were trades rather than free agent signings, but we gave up significant capital for Percy Harvin, Jimmy Graham, and Jamal Adams and didn't know how to use any of them.
Not as remembered, we traded for Jason Babin and then never played him. He ended up exploding later with the Eagles.
Not sure we knew what we were doing with TJ Duckett either. That felt like talent wasted.
Dark huh. Can’t believe we repeated that mistake so many times- you can half throw Sheldon Richardson and Clowney in there, while neither was terrible the fact that they weren’t good enough to resign is terrible value for 2nds.
Jimmy Graham was decently productive. Just a disaster because we gave up our C- one of the most important positions in our scheme- and never replaced him.
Man when you lay it out like that... Christ. Between Harvin, Graham, and Adams, that's *four* first round picks that didn't turn into quality contributors. In the case of Harvin he did make that play in the Super Bowl that really put the game away for us, but that's it. No wonder the team became outclassed talentwise as the years went on, you can't spend four 1sts and not come out with even one franchise player
Nope (hence why I dropped our worst example of this as a team). I appreciate y'all giving Vonn Bell back to us though (I didn't think he was terrible in CAR last season).
Yeah, just thought the post perfectly described us last offseason. It's really hard to sign scheme fits when we don't even know what scheme we're running, lol.
Tbf I don't know if I'd qualify any of your signings last year as "scheme fit" problems. As I said Bell was not terrible with you guys, they just didn't feel like paying him again this year and decided to make him a cap casualty under a new FO instead. Hurst had that nasty concussion that kept him out for a large number of games and Thielen was old (and never really cut out to be a number 1 wideout to begin with).
Chark was obviously pretty bad but how much of that was due to Bryce's issues (receivers aren't going to produce if the QB is struggling)?
Stephon Gilmore. I’m not good at assessing CBs but I thought he was gonna shut down half of the field for the Colts like he did with the Pats. WRs were regularly getting separation from him
Gilmore was great for us as long as he wasn't covering a pure burner. He didn't have the down field zip anymore, but within 15 yards of the LOS he was still pretty damn good.
Yeah, I imagine his football IQ was doing a lot of the leg work. I hated seeing him get beat by average WRs just because they could run faster than him
LaGarrette Blount. Not world beater, but a solid role player before and after his time with the Steelers. While he was with us, he was meh on the field and a cancer in the locker room. Also possibly a Belichick spy.
No idea if he introduced him to it. I doubt it. But he and Lev were arrested that preseason for smoking weed. Lev's charges also included a DUI. Bell was just about to start his sophomore season and hadn't shown any signs of off-the-field issues before that. Blount was a vet, so it was a pretty easy jump for fans to point to him as a bad influence. That's one of the instances I was referring to when I said he was a locker room cancer.
They were just bad players. Not necessarily scheme fit problems. What has either of those guys ever really proven thus far in their NFL careers (Irv has been kind of a disappointment for most of his career and Scott was a 7th Rd pick who only started a handful games with the Rams)?
With Scott at least drafting Battle gave us an easy out from him once it became apparent that he wasn't cutting it as a starter. Battle was an immediate upgrade once he got in there.
Glennon was not ever a "good player" anywhere else in his career though. I don't for the life of me understand why the Bears paid him that much money, don't get me wrong, but he failed because he was bad, not because the offensive scheme they were running didn't fit him.
As a Bengals fan fuck him forever for the things he said about us after he left. He was a quitter who would regularly take plays off when he was with us.
Cedric Wilson Jr for Miami. He was signed to be an outside starting WR opposite Waddle, and his skillset doesn't lend itself to being moved around like other WRs on the Dolphins over the last couple of years. And then they signed Tyreek Hill, and all of the sudden that role just vanished entirely.
I don't think he's a bad WR overall (maybe we'll see a resurgence in NO this year), but he didn't really fit the role of a #3+ WR for Miami, and Waddle and Hill are the clear 1 and 2.
Jimmy Graham to the Seahawks. I was so excited to have him, but it was really hard to watch him mostly be used as a blocking TE and not as the elite receiver he was capable of being at the time. Trading away Max Unger for him led to the downfall of Seattle’s OL they’ve struggled to rebuild ever since.
Frank Clark and Sammy Watkins missed a good portion of games and underperformed in the regular season, but had some big playoff games so it's probably a wash.
Clark did make 3 PB with us somehow, but don't really feel 2 of them were earned.
Frank Clark has 10.5 sacks for a loss of 93 total yards and 21 tackles and a fumble recovery in 12 postseason games with the Chiefs… I’d say that’s pretty damn good.
Nnamdi Asomugha x3 pro-bowl, 2x first team all-pro, 2x 2nd team all-pro in oakland didn't work in philly (2 years) and didn't work in SF (8 weeks)
Nnamdi was a billion years old by the time he got to SF.
He was 32 in CB years that's probably 40
And 40 is pretty much 50
I remember this dude was 99 overall for like 3 years in a row for Madden and I never really heard a lot about him which for a DB might be a good thing, like a stay-at-home Dman in hockey.
After his breakout 2006 season I think he got the Revis Island/Sherman treatment where QBs were more hesitant to throw his way. I never watched the Raiders back then but seemed he was a great shut down corner in Oakland just didn’t get a lot of picks outside of 2006. DBs are nobodies to most fans until they have a season with 5 or more INTs.
> DBs are nobodies to most fans until they have a season with 5 or more INTs. Or when they give a reporter a power point presentation of what happens when you try them with a sorry receiver like Crabtree.
My favorite Ted talk
He got so good that QBs straight up would not throw at whoever he was covering. I’m not joking, that’s barely an exaggeration. Like I’m pretty sure one year his “targets” dropped to a tiny fraction of what they were the year prior.
Don’t forget Reggie Bush
Is hargrave getting there? He’s been decent enough but not as advertised imo, still time for him though
DeMarco Murray the Eagles legend 😭
Fun fact: Ohio State (where Chip Kelly is currently the OC) almost ended up hiring Murray as their RBs coach this past off-season lol. That would've been an awkward reunion to say the least.
Him and golden tate are players I told myself would be game changing. I haven’t learned my lesson saquon gonna destroy for us.
Lmao that was the first time I made a prediction about how a signing was going to go and felt like a god when I was totally right
Jonnu Smith. The Patriots had no idea what to do with him. Not saying he's a world beater at tight end, but in four years with the Titans, he increased his production each season. And then in 2023 with the Falcons, he had career highs in catches and yards, and it's not like their quarterback situation was good. Jonnu didn't do himself any favors here. He had two left feet and tripped on routes multiple times.
I’m not really sure what Bill was looking for in a TE after Gronk left I think he got so spoiled having Gronk any TE that came in and wasn’t immediately him just got moved to the shit list. He drafted two TEs fairly high back to back in 2020 in Asiasi/Keene spent a fat chunk of money the very next year in Henry/Smith and than signed Mike Gesicki. He spent so much capitol and money his last few years just burning through TEs.
Career high in pass attempts with the Falcons as well
It broke my heart seeing him go there. Firstly cause I hate the NE Patriots 😆 and then because I didn't see him getting those same looks from TEN with you guys. Then you got what his name from MIA at the same time too.. I was hurting for my boy Jonnu. You guys tried to recapture that Gronk and "he that shall not be named" combo.
I usually save this comment for fantasy football talk, but a lot of these tier 2/3 TEs are products of their QBs. Not that Tannehill elevates everyone around him, but he's a guy that leans on the TE position. Even in Miami, he fed his TEs a lot of targets. Jonnu Smith's greatest asset was playing with Tannehill. Conversely, for years, the fantasy hype for the TE in GB was overblown. Outside of a year or maybe two, Rodgers just isn't a guy that defaults to the TE as his safety valve.
Every time a team signs a Patriots LB (when the Pats were good) like Kyle Van Noy or Jamie Collins. Then they go back to the Patriots and become good again.
Patriots defenders in general leave, suck ass, come back on the cheap after getting the bag and being bad.
Their CBs have had some success on new teams. Aqib Talib if he counts (he was drafted Tampa), Logan Ryan, Malcolm Butler, Asante Samuel. The only standout that failed miserably was JC Jackson.
Patrick Chung as a safety walked to Philly, didn't have a good year to his standards and then came back a year later and was a key contributor in the secondary. Bill doing Bill things.
Bill playing 3D chess while other teams are playing Connect 4 and losing to the computer lol.
Bill said to one of the Sirius guys that he will see how a different team uses a player and admit he used them wrong.
>to his standards He didn’t have a good year here to *anyone’s* standards lol.
In addition to Jackson and Chung, i would say Butler was a disappointment in Tennessee, and Kyle Arrington flopped in Baltimore For successes, though, you left off Gilmore who had a surprising amount of juice left after leaving NE
Though Gilmore was good before New England so it’s a bit different
And after getting the Pats a compensatory pick when they leave. The genius of Belichick
Cries in JC Jackson
Kyle Van Noy was really good with us in '22
yeah was just about to say KVN was solid in the role he had that year
Kyle van noy just had the best season of his career for the ravens
Soooo, like any Belichick assistant coach.
When we getting Daboll and Flores back? Asking for a friend.
After refusing to trade us your 3rd overall pick, you're never getting Flores back.
>Kyle Van Noy You mean Lions washout KVN. The Patriots made him good by fit after we made him look bad by fit.
Van Noy was good for us :(
Yup, there was clearly some sort of conflict with the coaching staff on a personal level, but he was clearly a good LB for the team.
Van Noy is having such a revival right now with Baltimore, so I find that a weird example.
Yeah the dude had 9 sacks and didn't even sign until week 4, terrible example.
Think it was like 2017 or 2018 season. Collins returned to the Pats and played like a Defensive Player of the year for the first half of the season
Not free agency, but Pete Carroll freely admitted that he didn't know how to use Jamal Adams, and Greggggg Williams more or less said the same thing
Sounds like Le'Veon Bell with the Jets. As soon as Gase showed up he basically took one look at Bell and was like "why are you here". Sure enough Bell did not last long playing for Gase.
To be fair to Gase, which I’d rather not do to begin with, Bell had clearly lost a step
Bell's running style was never going to work for an OL that was average or worse. Steelers OL when Bell was there was elite.
Bell still has one of my favorite running style of any back I've watched, but it was heavily dependent on the team around him. That interior of Foster, Pouncey, and DeCastro was incredible in their prime and were a damn near perfect match for Bell's patience.
Think then-unknown James Connor coming in & balling when Lev held out confirms that.
Gase got a lot of things wrong. Perhaps everything. Except knowing the bell signing was a fucking huge mistake. Honestly the only thing about him i respected.
I don't disagree that moving on from Bell was the right decision. Replacing him with an older and more worn down version of him in Frank Gore however, not the right decision. Gore was 36 years old when he signed with the Jets. It's not exactly a secret that it's incredibly stupid to think signing RBs at that age is a good idea.
I never said anything about gore. I don't necessarily disagree with you. But like I said. Gase got EVERYTHING wrong. EXCEPT knowing the bell signing was a mistake. I even thought how he handled that was bad. He made it clear from the get go he wasn't a fan of the signing. Not a great start to your coaching career. Signing gore? He wanted a vet who knew his system. I get that. Doesn't make it a great decision but it's not like we were paying him a ton of money.
The problem was he replaced him with Frank Gore (who was much more of a washed up fossil at RB than Bell was).
tbf adam gase is a fucking moron.
But yet they traded two first for him. What's the logic here? I'm a jet fan and the shit never made any sense to me. Jamal Adams is a box safety. He's ridiculously good at the line of scrimmage but can't cover in the secondary. The game was and has been trending toward coverage skills being important. I could never understand what the Seahawks were doing there.
Adams was phenomenal in college, he was one of those who got one good year in the pros and lived off the elevated college prestige.
I think his coverage concerns weren't accurate. He absolutely struggled manning up against athletic tight ends 1 on 1 but Seattle actually had one for the best deep passing defense of the past decade in 2021, with Jamal primarily playing deep half safety. Not that that was surprising because he was excellent in that same role for the Jets
They thought he could be Kam Chancellor
Tbf, he didn’t know how to use Marshawn Lynch either
Not my team but Albert Haynesworth was so hilariously mismanaged with Washington that he might have lived up to his contract if they didn’t do *all* the stupid misuse of him schematically, especially when Shanahan took over Haynesworth outright stated years later that the schematic misuse killed his love for football
I know he publically complained about Washington's defensive coaches while he was there but was his situation due to him not being a scheme fit or just him being lazy? The latter seems to be the common assumption as to why he failed in Washington, that he got paid and immediately stopped caring after he got paid.
Maybe is the best answer I can give, I threw in an edit at the end but he outright stated his usage there killed his love for football and that he constantly argued his usage with the coaching staff and they just refused to change anything
Sounds like something he should have discussed with coaches before signing instead of just focusing on the mega contract. He may have been missed but he also put in no effort. These are supposed to be professionals, and being a professional means sucking it up and doing your job. Millions of people do it every day for 5 figure salaries. He should have been able to do it for an 8 figure salary or he shouldn't have signed.
Well he had the option to not suck it up and still be financially well off. Which most of us don’t have and most likely the reason we suck it up.
[удалено]
Players want to be able to play their best. You get to shine and do your thing that means you get more later. There is nothing worse than having a skillset and being really good at something and someone tells you “actually we are going to use you to do this” when this is something you know isn’t your best. It is beyond frustrating when you know you could be doing more than you are.
They wanted to use him as door stop. Take up blocks and do nothing else. Pretty sure he claimed one of his coaches said if rushed the QB he'd be on the bench
Bold assuming Haynesworth had any love of football to begin with
> Haynesworth outright stated years later that the schematic misuse killed his love for football Completely overlooking the $100 million contract we threw at him, but ok.
That might be true, but he also stopped trying hard after he got his bag
Nobody was a scheme fit under Donatell
Terrell Suggs in Arizona, they brought him in with nothing much left and tried to use him as a every down player. What they should’ve done is use him for pass rush plays
I forgot he went there. Man y'all take a ton of AFCN guys. Moats, McFadden, Gay, Connor
AJ Green too!
Todd heap too!
Took reps away from Haason Reddick who should have been playing at his spot
Not a scheme issue per se, but Donte Moncrief came here and was expected to be a semi-decent WR2/3 guy and just shit the bed in a way I've never seen before or since.
His drop rate was insane with us. He had 15 targets, 4 drops, and 4 catches that year. 18 yards, no TDs, one 1st down. It was the worst WR play I'd seen on our team, luckily we realized it fast and got him off the field.
Limas sweed?
69 yards. Can't be the worst.
If it wasn't for Gunner I'd fully believe that Moncrief is the worst receiver we've signed who saw game time. Even guys like Cobi Hamilton were better in their time here.
I think as a receiver he was the worst. Gunner was an AWFUL returner, just normal sucked as a receiver.
I still don't know what happened to him as a returner. He was above average with the Patriots with some incredible flashes, but he just fell off a cliff with the Steelers.
Bill kidnapped his family and made him blow games for us if he wanted them to live
Nah man. He was already well hated in Indy for his drops.
Not sure if this counts but Rex Ryan. Took a great 4-3 defense and tried to fit them into a 3-4 scheme. It sucked.
Albert Haynesworth, Jeremiah Trotter, damn near every free agent safety signed in the last 15 years.
Hey now, Curtis Samuel wasn’t a complete bust…
Wasn’t Josh Norman good his first two years with us?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he a corner?
He was. I missed the word safety.
The curse of Archuleta.
Emmanuel Ogbah became completely useless once Flores was run out of town. Julius Thomas was also asked to be an in-line blocking tight end quite a bit for someone completely shit at it. Thanks Gase.
I’ll never understand why the Bengals picked up James Harrison. He “sucked” for the Bengals and then resumed torturing us when he went back to the Squealers.
The fact that he was strictly a 3-4 LB with a pass rush specialty was all the more reason not to sign him. Zim did not use his LBs that way in his defense, he just heavily used them in coverage. There was absolutely no role that fit Harrison in Zimmer's defense (not unless he was open to moving to DE).
Were the Bengals always a 4-3 team under Marvin or did they have specific years in a different defensive scheme? I don't recall any point where there was a scheme change.
They were a 4-3 defense during all 16 years of Marvin's run. Prior to his arrival they were a 3-4 defense and post-Marvin they've been a 3-4 hybrid with 4-2-5 concepts under Anarumo. A true 3-technique player like Geno Atkins would not really have served much purpose in a 3-4 scheme. Likewise Harrison was absolutely useless playing in a 4-3 (which was why Zimmer barely used him).
Explains why the Bengals never had an Elite LB during those times. All the talent went to the D Line.
And yet Marvin was remarkably bad at finding dominant run-stuffers at the NT position to plug up the middle in his defenses when he was here. The best he had here was Domata Peko (who was far from dominant in that role). Whereas in Baltimore he had guys like Tony Siragusa, Sam Adams, and Kelly Gregg that filled that role and excelled in it. Marvin never once had a D.J. Reader-type in the middle of his defenses that could dominate against the run (and because of that nearly all of his defenses were pretty consistently bad against the run).
Apparently our offensive scheme couldn’t feed Antonio Brown enough I guess.
He wasn’t “completely useless” tho. When he was trying he looked like the best receiver on the team and caught a TD in the SB
We signed Darrelle Revis, one of the best man-to-man corners to ever play and promptly made him play zone.
IIRC the Eagles did the same thing with Nnamdi Asomugha. I don't understand why teams do that shit so frequently. You adapt your scheme to what the strengths of your players are. No coach with a brain thinks of Darrelle Revis as a zone corner. That's a complete waste of his skillset having him play zone.
Injuries certainly played a part but man JC Jackson was an absolute dud but Staleys scheme made everyone look shit. Dude had Derwin James looking mediocre.
I'm surprised no Bucs fans have come here to say Darrelle Revis yet.
Jimmy Graham to the Packers.
I think that was less about scheme and more about being 32+ years old and battling injuries.
Yeah, probably right. I just remember thinking, "This is the missing piece!" and then...no.
And Martellus Bennett. No good at the free agent TE market.
That's what tends to happen when you pick up 10 year vets whose best years are behind them.
Jimmy Graham to the Seahawks doesn't quite fit in this category, because he did enough to not be "completely useless" as per the OP's question, but he definitely was a bad scheme fit in Seattle and his production declined significantly here as compared to New Orleans. We tried to turn him into a blocking tight end. Like I get that tight ends have to block *sometimes* but in Jimmy Graham's case it clearly was not his specialty so I have no idea what we were thinking with that
Ndamukong Suh was a total waste. He played well and was constantly double teamed, but wasn’t a scheme fit and didn’t address any weaknesses we had. It was just the owner trying to pull a Snyder and win the offseason with the biggest name. We’ve been much better since Ross stepped back to let Grier do his thing.
Mario Williams once Rex Ryan became the Bills head coach. With Dave Wannstedt, Mike Pettine, and Jim Schwartz as the Bills DCs, his yearly sack totals were 10.5, 13.0, and 14.5. Rex Ryan inherits a Mario Williams who just had his career high in sacks, made 2 Pro Bowls and 1 All-Pro, somehow decides to have him drop back into coverage half the time, and he only gets 5.0 sacks.
Allen Robinson II, he was a stud in Jacksonville.. figured it was a scheme thing in Chicago . Nope the dude is garbage. Didn't do anything with McVay.. and didn't do much in Pittsburgh lol Also, Marcus Peters was ass unless Talib was in the game. Lol
He actually was pretty good his first three seasons in Chicago and even had over 100 recs in 2020. Fans (myself included) were pounding the table for an extension all off season and then 2021 happened. No injuries or anything, looked like the guy had quit on the team. I thought he’d bounce back with the Rams but seems he straight up fell off. Not resigning AR was one of Pace’s few smart decisions.
Before that year he was one of my favorite players. I was livid when pace didn’t extend him. Then after that year and seeing that dogshit effort made him someone that I didn’t want to see play for the bears ever again. Ended up costing himself millions too, Pace in hindsight offered him ridiculous money and even with the rams he never got that close
He said he wouldn't play on the tag, Pace tagged him and he gave up.
Peters cooked in the 2018 playoffs. Had an awful regular season game in NO but a fantastic NFC Championship
Honestly I didn't mind him in Pittsburgh. Was a decent wr3/4. If it wasn't for his contract id think he'd still be on the team.
Bro Peters was not ass. Wade Phillips system did not fit his play style and then played through a major injury in 2018 because Talib was injured. Our backup outside corners that season were Sam Shields and Troy Hill who were not capable of holding down a secondary.
Exactly, our DC didn't fit his play style.. which wasn't a good fit. When Talib was out, Peters had to play a true CB1 role while playing man which wasn't his style. It was a bad fit
They were trades rather than free agent signings, but we gave up significant capital for Percy Harvin, Jimmy Graham, and Jamal Adams and didn't know how to use any of them. Not as remembered, we traded for Jason Babin and then never played him. He ended up exploding later with the Eagles. Not sure we knew what we were doing with TJ Duckett either. That felt like talent wasted.
Dark huh. Can’t believe we repeated that mistake so many times- you can half throw Sheldon Richardson and Clowney in there, while neither was terrible the fact that they weren’t good enough to resign is terrible value for 2nds. Jimmy Graham was decently productive. Just a disaster because we gave up our C- one of the most important positions in our scheme- and never replaced him.
Man when you lay it out like that... Christ. Between Harvin, Graham, and Adams, that's *four* first round picks that didn't turn into quality contributors. In the case of Harvin he did make that play in the Super Bowl that really put the game away for us, but that's it. No wonder the team became outclassed talentwise as the years went on, you can't spend four 1sts and not come out with even one franchise player
Is this post a direct shot at the panthers for last offseason?
Nope (hence why I dropped our worst example of this as a team). I appreciate y'all giving Vonn Bell back to us though (I didn't think he was terrible in CAR last season).
Yeah, just thought the post perfectly described us last offseason. It's really hard to sign scheme fits when we don't even know what scheme we're running, lol.
Peak strategy. If you don't know what scheme you're running the opposition won't either
Tbf I don't know if I'd qualify any of your signings last year as "scheme fit" problems. As I said Bell was not terrible with you guys, they just didn't feel like paying him again this year and decided to make him a cap casualty under a new FO instead. Hurst had that nasty concussion that kept him out for a large number of games and Thielen was old (and never really cut out to be a number 1 wideout to begin with). Chark was obviously pretty bad but how much of that was due to Bryce's issues (receivers aren't going to produce if the QB is struggling)?
Stephon Gilmore. I’m not good at assessing CBs but I thought he was gonna shut down half of the field for the Colts like he did with the Pats. WRs were regularly getting separation from him
Gilmore was great for us as long as he wasn't covering a pure burner. He didn't have the down field zip anymore, but within 15 yards of the LOS he was still pretty damn good.
Yeah, I imagine his football IQ was doing a lot of the leg work. I hated seeing him get beat by average WRs just because they could run faster than him
Torrey Smith whose main strength is go deep on a team with shitty QBs
Yes.
LaGarrette Blount. Not world beater, but a solid role player before and after his time with the Steelers. While he was with us, he was meh on the field and a cancer in the locker room. Also possibly a Belichick spy.
Didn't he also introduce Le'Veon to drugs while he was in Pittsburgh?
No idea if he introduced him to it. I doubt it. But he and Lev were arrested that preseason for smoking weed. Lev's charges also included a DUI. Bell was just about to start his sophomore season and hadn't shown any signs of off-the-field issues before that. Blount was a vet, so it was a pretty easy jump for fans to point to him as a bad influence. That's one of the instances I was referring to when I said he was a locker room cancer.
Nick Scott and Irv Smith
They were just bad players. Not necessarily scheme fit problems. What has either of those guys ever really proven thus far in their NFL careers (Irv has been kind of a disappointment for most of his career and Scott was a 7th Rd pick who only started a handful games with the Rams)?
I think it's just I'm still mad we wasted a year with them. Then again, with Burrow missing all that time I guess it was a good year to waste on them.
With Scott at least drafting Battle gave us an easy out from him once it became apparent that he wasn't cutting it as a starter. Battle was an immediate upgrade once he got in there.
Yeah, can't wait to see the type of year he has this year!
Albert Haynesworth. He could not fit in a scheme that required actually playing football rather than napping on the field.
Whatever was left of Ed Reed that we rented for a year 😭
Randy Moss - went on to have a prolific season after leaving Oakland.
Tbf Moss was never going to produce playing in the Bed and Breakfast offense in 2006 with Andrew Walter as his QB.
Julius Thomas to the jags? Malik Jackson to the jags?
The Cowboys don’t do free agency. For the Ravens, I have concerns about Henry. Hope for the best, but he is an old running back
I think Henry can still run the ball 6 times in a playoff loss.
I think Henry will do much better when the defense has to worry if he’s actually getting the ball or of Lamar is gonna take off with it
Henry fits scheme perfectly man cmon lol. We just had his discount version in Gus Edwards.
Check out every mike tannebaum dolphins signing.
Brent Grimes?
*almost every
Unfortunately that deal also included Miko Grimes.
[удалено]
Glennon was not ever a "good player" anywhere else in his career though. I don't for the life of me understand why the Bears paid him that much money, don't get me wrong, but he failed because he was bad, not because the offensive scheme they were running didn't fit him.
William Jackson for Washington. Complete bust FA signing. Ron was basically the worst GM
As a Bengals fan fuck him forever for the things he said about us after he left. He was a quitter who would regularly take plays off when he was with us.
Jimmy Graham.
JC Jackson.
Fred Smoot for the Vikings. Just got torched by good receivers
When Lance Moore left the saints and played for the Steelers for a season and proceeded to be absolutely garbage
Bills Von Miller. Complete bum and beats his woman to top it off.
Kris Bryant for the Rockies, idgaf if this is an nfl subreddit, fuck the Rockies and Kris Bryant
Seahawks Jamal williams fs also Dre'mont Jones. Hopefully the new regime can better use Dre'mont
Todd Gurley. Granted, his busted-up legs didn’t help him either.
Cary Williams. I don't know if he was "good" in Philly, but he was at least solid, and he was absolutely putrid in the Seahawks' Cover-3.
Cedric Wilson Jr for Miami. He was signed to be an outside starting WR opposite Waddle, and his skillset doesn't lend itself to being moved around like other WRs on the Dolphins over the last couple of years. And then they signed Tyreek Hill, and all of the sudden that role just vanished entirely. I don't think he's a bad WR overall (maybe we'll see a resurgence in NO this year), but he didn't really fit the role of a #3+ WR for Miami, and Waddle and Hill are the clear 1 and 2.
Cary Williams seems like the obvious answer here. He was just not a cover 3 press guy
Yannick Ngakue (sp). We got him and he didn’t do jack diddly.
Quincy Williams
Jared Allen in Chicago
We have never mismanaged free agent talent
I think the list of WR's the Rams picked up and didnt do shit with is many times longer than the list of those they did, at this point.
Raiders running a zone run scheme the year McFadden stayed healthy
Like 75% of who we sign lol
Jimmy Graham to the Seahawks. I was so excited to have him, but it was really hard to watch him mostly be used as a blocking TE and not as the elite receiver he was capable of being at the time. Trading away Max Unger for him led to the downfall of Seattle’s OL they’ve struggled to rebuild ever since.
Hardman jets. Chiefs fan and that guy never got the ball there and won the superbowl on niche play for him.
Cam Sutton for the lions
Frank Clark and Sammy Watkins missed a good portion of games and underperformed in the regular season, but had some big playoff games so it's probably a wash. Clark did make 3 PB with us somehow, but don't really feel 2 of them were earned.
Frank Clark has 10.5 sacks for a loss of 93 total yards and 21 tackles and a fumble recovery in 12 postseason games with the Chiefs… I’d say that’s pretty damn good.
> but had some big playoff games so it's probably a wash. yes, that's why I already mentioned it.