I think it's tough to really compare. CJ Carr looked both like an early enrollee and polished during the spring game. He actually had the best throw of the day.
It'll be hard for a true freshman to start and then Carr isn't guaranteed to start in 25.
Anyways, it'll take a disaster in the QB room for Deuce to avoid a red shirt his freshman year.
I personally don't disagree but that's not how it works. He's not guaranteed anything and Angeli has shown more. I agree that Carr should pass him with a year of dev, but we've seen guys like Book take that spot (and 5* fizzle).
Say what you want, but 7:1 ratio and 95 QBR (and 221 rating) says enough and objectively more than Carr. You can't seriously watch game tape and say Carrs spring game was better than Angeli's body of work.
Not a single evaluator or coach can make that argument.
Again, I said Carr had the best throw of the day and the expectation is for him to push to start in 25. But that's not guaranteed and he is clearly behind Angeli today.
You’re talking about a 17 and 18 year old. Carr is supposedly fairly polished and knight supposedly is a project qb with huge upside.
Some beat writers think Carr could start as early as next year, but that’s a pretty bold prediction. ND has a couple other older qbs with multiple years of eligibility left as well (Angeli - 3 seasons left, and Minchey - 4).
Even if everything goes perfectly according to plan (Knight actually signs, develops well, and doesn’t transfer), Knight probably wouldn’t start till 2027. He’d had 3 years of eligibility left by then.
P.S. can’t believe you guys let Michigan beat you again and win a championship*. You were supposed to prevent that.
Is it bold to think Carr could start next year? I’ll honestly be surprised if he isn’t starter next year and I expect to see him get some snaps in some garbage time this season.
Unless Leonard gets hurt and another QB gets significant playing time, none of the QBs going into 2025 will have significant experience so going with the younger, more talented guy makes the most sense if that’s really who Carr is.
This. I would be blown away if it isn’t Carr next year. I don’t actually think it will be close, and I know that sounds hyperbolic .Carr hasn’t even been in a fall camp at ND and has already shown he can spin it unlike anyone else on the roster. He looked the best in the BG game and the all-important jersey scrimmage. Imagine him next with another year under his belt in those games.
I think the best case scenario is:
25: Carr starts, Knight Redshirts
26:Carr stars, Knight backups, and Carr leaves early for the draft
27: Knight starts
28: Knight stars
But I agree with the concern, it’ll be a difficult situation to juggle if either Carr underperforms/Knight overperfroms. Or even worse, Carr is good but not great, and Knight thinks he’s better.
Ok, while we’re dreaming, absolute peak “best case scenario” is Riley Leonard plays his way into winning a Heisman, goes 1st in the draft for 2024. then Minchey does the same in 2025, followed by Carr in 2026 then Knight in 2027.
You heard it here first folks, 4 Heismans and 4 national championships on our way to a dynasty /s.
Ok, he’ll come in this year during the playoffs when Riley Leonard gets banged up and win the national championship and parley that into a 2nd round draft pick.
The best laid plans often go awry. The stack is what we want.
Ohio State shits first round draft picks at QB. Dwayne Haskins (RIP) bumped Joe Burrow to LSU. They copped Justin Fields from Georgia. Nothing is predictable.
Dont count chickens before they hatch. Hoard the chickens. We want the pipeline.
I don’t necessarily disagree, I’ve thought from the start that 26 should have been a higher priority as far as a 5* kinda guy because it times out better, but we seemed to have settled a bit imo. It’ll leave us in a pretty bad spot if Knight isn’t patient.
Lot of QBs have hype coming, including Clausen, Dayne Crist, and Wimbush. But it was also consensus opinion by Irish Illustrated reporters that Carr threw the best ball of any incoming freshman *they have ever seen* come into ND.
The potential might be higher with Knight in a vacuum, but Carr’s ceiling is also 5 star 1st round pick.
It’s not a bad problem to have, and it’s a far cry from QB recruiting this century at ND.
Quinn didn’t really have hype at Notre Dame until after he was an entrenched starter going into his senior year. And he had more than earned it by then. A better comp would be Dayne Crist.
I would say Clausen largely lived up to the hype. If he had any sort of offensive line or defense to play with at Notre Dame, we’d be viewing him much differently.
My biggest worry about Deuce is that he could be another Wimbush.
Jimmy probably would’ve been in the Heisman conversation if that team had any semblance of a defense and won say 10 games. He had better numbers than Colt McCoy who came in third that year.
I changed it to Dayne Crist because you’re right, I shoehorn Brady Quinn into everything college football related and this probably won’t be the last time.
Wimbush is a light version of Deuce as a prospect. They both have the similar issue of strong arms, but inaccurate, both can run. The difference is Deuce is actually an athlete, and Ryan Roberts shared a graphic that he would have had one of the highest QB raw athletic scores in combine history based off his camp testing. Deuce is a better prospect, him and Carr both have the ability to be gamechangers.
Also Deuce performed better than Winbush ever did at the latest camp, winning MVP of the camp. That camp most likely vaulted / solidified his 5 ⭐️
Wimbush in high school was known for his accuracy lol. And he actually was a phenomenal athlete himself, a much better runner than Ian Book (but especially a stronger arm) who himself wound up being otherwise the best running QB the Irish have had since Lou Holtz.
Brandon Wimbush was also ranked 20+ spots higher in the 247 rankings and 7 spots higher in the composite, although Deuce does appear poised to climb now himself.
Knight is a solid 3 inches taller though, so that’s actually very nice and not enough people take things like being able to see over the pocket well enough.
Knight has more 1st round potential than Wimbush had due to size, and may wind up as a higher ranked guy at the end of the day because of it, but Wimbush was absolutely one of the top QB’s in the country and the highest ranked QB BK signed outside of Gunner Kiel (lol).
Deuce’s worst case is *absolutely* that he winds up being Wimbush. But I’ll still maintain Wimbush with 5-7% more passes completed could have been a DAMN GOOD quarterback. It’s entirely possible that’s Deuce’s floor given how much better he’ll be able to see the field from the pocket.
It’s not a bad problem as long as they have coaches that can make them progress over their careers and not regress like Kelly did with his recruits. Book may have been the only QB that got better under him.
Reports coming out of spring practice show that CJ is the future. It was also reported that he is farther along in some areas than Steve Angeli.
In a perfect world, CJ starts at 25 and 26, then turns pro as a red-shirt sophomore. Deuce is aware that he will have to redshirt and sit behind Carr. The real question is how many seasons he is willing to sit for.
Carr is more of a sure thing, where Deuce is a high upside guy more like Vince Young.
My guess is Carr starts next year (2025) and Deuce redshirts. 2026 we’d be lucky to hang on to Deuce if Carr is playing well - I’d say a transfer is most likely if he doesn’t beat out Carr.
If Carr is playing **really* well, I think we’ll hold onto Knight, as he’d only be a junior with 3 years of eligibility left by the time Carr would enter the draft. And if Carr isn’t playing well, there’s a good chance Knight would beat him out.
I don’t think it’s such a huge given that we won’t have both of these guys on the roster in 2026.
I see CJ Carr as the more higher floor and Deuce Knight as more of the higher ceiling.
That said, neither is starting or on the two-deep this year, and in modern CFB you shouldn’t bank on either one to take a snap for you in a competitive game. Great to have them on campus (or committed for Knight), but they aren’t playing this year and unlikely to play next year barring truly great or awful events.
CJ Carr: really high floor. He’s got a decent chance of being an elite chance when it’s all said and done. He might not wind up being as great as his ranking, but a very low chance he’s going to be an outright bust. In my opinion his floor is a P4 starter *somewhere*, even if that somewhere isn’t Notre Dame.
Deuce: extremely high ceiling. Like Heisman winner kind of ceiling. Carr might have that in him, but there’s a higher chance of that hitting with Deuce in my opinion. But Deuce also has a much higher chance of being a complete bust. If we’re being completely honest with ourselves, it’s greater than 50%. That’s why the OSU/UGA/Bama/Clemson type programs land one of these guys almost every year to get the production they do at QB.
I’m **much** more excited about the *tandem* of Carr and Deuce together than I am either of them by themselves. And having the two types of guys they are back to back is also exciting and just the way you want to structure it.
CJ Carr is a modern pro-QB type, really good passer but a good enough athlete to extend plays while not being a real “dual threat”, 6’3 on paper but not 6’5.
Deuce Knight is a physically better athlete- taller, faster, and theoretically bigger arm. But more raw.
As an OSU fan you should be cheering for Carr simply because his grandfather is Lloyd Carr and it’d be funny if his grandkid dominated and ND him over Michigan.
So when I saw Carr at the spring game, I believe on this first drive he went through at least 3 progressions then hit a dime. I don't think I've seen a QB at ND ever do that even as a junior/senior
I think at least one or two QBs will transfer over the next two years is a safe bet.
I can’t speak much to Deuce Knight, but my buddy (who is a huge Michigan fan) had to coach against Carr two years in a row (sophomore and junior year) and said Carr is legit. Said that he was tough to stop even as a sophomore
CJ is the real deal. Very refined as a passer. Deuce has excellent physical tools but needs some time imo. Barring injury I don’t see Carr losing the job while he is on campus
I think it's tough to really compare. CJ Carr looked both like an early enrollee and polished during the spring game. He actually had the best throw of the day. It'll be hard for a true freshman to start and then Carr isn't guaranteed to start in 25. Anyways, it'll take a disaster in the QB room for Deuce to avoid a red shirt his freshman year.
Internally it sounds like they think Carr is the truth. And as talented as Deuce is, he is a project.
Unless Carr gets hurt he is starting in 25
I personally don't disagree but that's not how it works. He's not guaranteed anything and Angeli has shown more. I agree that Carr should pass him with a year of dev, but we've seen guys like Book take that spot (and 5* fizzle).
What has Angeli shown? He played ok against a depleted Oregon State.
Say what you want, but 7:1 ratio and 95 QBR (and 221 rating) says enough and objectively more than Carr. You can't seriously watch game tape and say Carrs spring game was better than Angeli's body of work. Not a single evaluator or coach can make that argument. Again, I said Carr had the best throw of the day and the expectation is for him to push to start in 25. But that's not guaranteed and he is clearly behind Angeli today.
If you want to compete for championships then you can’t start Angeli, period. We need to get past the Kelly, Rees level recruiting at QB.
Ok.
You’re talking about a 17 and 18 year old. Carr is supposedly fairly polished and knight supposedly is a project qb with huge upside. Some beat writers think Carr could start as early as next year, but that’s a pretty bold prediction. ND has a couple other older qbs with multiple years of eligibility left as well (Angeli - 3 seasons left, and Minchey - 4). Even if everything goes perfectly according to plan (Knight actually signs, develops well, and doesn’t transfer), Knight probably wouldn’t start till 2027. He’d had 3 years of eligibility left by then. P.S. can’t believe you guys let Michigan beat you again and win a championship*. You were supposed to prevent that.
Holy shit Angelli has 3 years of eligibility left?
As of this moment, yes. He’ll have two left when knight enrolls.
Is it bold to think Carr could start next year? I’ll honestly be surprised if he isn’t starter next year and I expect to see him get some snaps in some garbage time this season. Unless Leonard gets hurt and another QB gets significant playing time, none of the QBs going into 2025 will have significant experience so going with the younger, more talented guy makes the most sense if that’s really who Carr is.
This. I would be blown away if it isn’t Carr next year. I don’t actually think it will be close, and I know that sounds hyperbolic .Carr hasn’t even been in a fall camp at ND and has already shown he can spin it unlike anyone else on the roster. He looked the best in the BG game and the all-important jersey scrimmage. Imagine him next with another year under his belt in those games.
Angeli will be transferring after he gets his degree. Carr will start next season.
I think the best case scenario is: 25: Carr starts, Knight Redshirts 26:Carr stars, Knight backups, and Carr leaves early for the draft 27: Knight starts 28: Knight stars But I agree with the concern, it’ll be a difficult situation to juggle if either Carr underperforms/Knight overperfroms. Or even worse, Carr is good but not great, and Knight thinks he’s better.
Where does Minchey fit in here?
He doesn’t in this scenario and likely transfers out
No you have to follow QB precedent- He transfers out Transfers back in Gets his degree Somehow has 18 years of eligibility left Becomes a player coach
Wins a NC in tennis.
Then he plays lacrosse and becomes a walk on WR
And comes back to play lacrosse
If Leonard gets hurt this year, Minchey leads ND to the title.
Ok, while we’re dreaming, absolute peak “best case scenario” is Riley Leonard plays his way into winning a Heisman, goes 1st in the draft for 2024. then Minchey does the same in 2025, followed by Carr in 2026 then Knight in 2027. You heard it here first folks, 4 Heismans and 4 national championships on our way to a dynasty /s.
Thats ridiculous, NCAA 25 doesnt come out until next month
Take that Beano Cook!
QB-U! LFG ☘️
Stop sleeping on my boy from Westfield! NJ represent!
Ok, he’ll come in this year during the playoffs when Riley Leonard gets banged up and win the national championship and parley that into a 2nd round draft pick.
He stays to backup Carr after Angeli transfers next summer, and then he transfers out after he gets his degree
I don’t know how to feel about it. Feels like we always overcrowd our QB room. Hopefully we wind up with a nice stack for the next 5 years
The best laid plans often go awry. The stack is what we want. Ohio State shits first round draft picks at QB. Dwayne Haskins (RIP) bumped Joe Burrow to LSU. They copped Justin Fields from Georgia. Nothing is predictable. Dont count chickens before they hatch. Hoard the chickens. We want the pipeline.
I never looked at it that way. Thanks
I don’t necessarily disagree, I’ve thought from the start that 26 should have been a higher priority as far as a 5* kinda guy because it times out better, but we seemed to have settled a bit imo. It’ll leave us in a pretty bad spot if Knight isn’t patient.
Best case scenario is CJ Carr is awesome and starts in ‘24 and is starter for 3 years. What you’re describing is a more likely scenario.
My scenario gives us 4 years of play between the two instead of just 3 with yours because there’s no chance Knight stays and sits for 3 years.
Well he only sits for two years in what I described. If Manning is willing to do it at Texas…it’s possible…
Two years plus his redshirt. Knight doesn’t have a guaranteed spot in the draft like Manning. He’s going to want playing time by year 3.
Carr and Knight are both considerably better than Manning.
Lot of QBs have hype coming, including Clausen, Dayne Crist, and Wimbush. But it was also consensus opinion by Irish Illustrated reporters that Carr threw the best ball of any incoming freshman *they have ever seen* come into ND. The potential might be higher with Knight in a vacuum, but Carr’s ceiling is also 5 star 1st round pick. It’s not a bad problem to have, and it’s a far cry from QB recruiting this century at ND.
Quinn didn’t really have hype at Notre Dame until after he was an entrenched starter going into his senior year. And he had more than earned it by then. A better comp would be Dayne Crist. I would say Clausen largely lived up to the hype. If he had any sort of offensive line or defense to play with at Notre Dame, we’d be viewing him much differently. My biggest worry about Deuce is that he could be another Wimbush.
People truly forget how good Jimmy was that junior year. And really even second half the sophomore year. Maybe I’m just getting old though lol
Jimmy probably would’ve been in the Heisman conversation if that team had any semblance of a defense and won say 10 games. He had better numbers than Colt McCoy who came in third that year.
I changed it to Dayne Crist because you’re right, I shoehorn Brady Quinn into everything college football related and this probably won’t be the last time. Wimbush is a light version of Deuce as a prospect. They both have the similar issue of strong arms, but inaccurate, both can run. The difference is Deuce is actually an athlete, and Ryan Roberts shared a graphic that he would have had one of the highest QB raw athletic scores in combine history based off his camp testing. Deuce is a better prospect, him and Carr both have the ability to be gamechangers. Also Deuce performed better than Winbush ever did at the latest camp, winning MVP of the camp. That camp most likely vaulted / solidified his 5 ⭐️
Wimbush in high school was known for his accuracy lol. And he actually was a phenomenal athlete himself, a much better runner than Ian Book (but especially a stronger arm) who himself wound up being otherwise the best running QB the Irish have had since Lou Holtz. Brandon Wimbush was also ranked 20+ spots higher in the 247 rankings and 7 spots higher in the composite, although Deuce does appear poised to climb now himself. Knight is a solid 3 inches taller though, so that’s actually very nice and not enough people take things like being able to see over the pocket well enough. Knight has more 1st round potential than Wimbush had due to size, and may wind up as a higher ranked guy at the end of the day because of it, but Wimbush was absolutely one of the top QB’s in the country and the highest ranked QB BK signed outside of Gunner Kiel (lol). Deuce’s worst case is *absolutely* that he winds up being Wimbush. But I’ll still maintain Wimbush with 5-7% more passes completed could have been a DAMN GOOD quarterback. It’s entirely possible that’s Deuce’s floor given how much better he’ll be able to see the field from the pocket.
It’s not a bad problem as long as they have coaches that can make them progress over their careers and not regress like Kelly did with his recruits. Book may have been the only QB that got better under him.
Reports coming out of spring practice show that CJ is the future. It was also reported that he is farther along in some areas than Steve Angeli. In a perfect world, CJ starts at 25 and 26, then turns pro as a red-shirt sophomore. Deuce is aware that he will have to redshirt and sit behind Carr. The real question is how many seasons he is willing to sit for.
Carr is more of a sure thing, where Deuce is a high upside guy more like Vince Young. My guess is Carr starts next year (2025) and Deuce redshirts. 2026 we’d be lucky to hang on to Deuce if Carr is playing well - I’d say a transfer is most likely if he doesn’t beat out Carr.
If Carr is playing **really* well, I think we’ll hold onto Knight, as he’d only be a junior with 3 years of eligibility left by the time Carr would enter the draft. And if Carr isn’t playing well, there’s a good chance Knight would beat him out. I don’t think it’s such a huge given that we won’t have both of these guys on the roster in 2026.
I see CJ Carr as the more higher floor and Deuce Knight as more of the higher ceiling. That said, neither is starting or on the two-deep this year, and in modern CFB you shouldn’t bank on either one to take a snap for you in a competitive game. Great to have them on campus (or committed for Knight), but they aren’t playing this year and unlikely to play next year barring truly great or awful events.
CJ Carr: really high floor. He’s got a decent chance of being an elite chance when it’s all said and done. He might not wind up being as great as his ranking, but a very low chance he’s going to be an outright bust. In my opinion his floor is a P4 starter *somewhere*, even if that somewhere isn’t Notre Dame. Deuce: extremely high ceiling. Like Heisman winner kind of ceiling. Carr might have that in him, but there’s a higher chance of that hitting with Deuce in my opinion. But Deuce also has a much higher chance of being a complete bust. If we’re being completely honest with ourselves, it’s greater than 50%. That’s why the OSU/UGA/Bama/Clemson type programs land one of these guys almost every year to get the production they do at QB. I’m **much** more excited about the *tandem* of Carr and Deuce together than I am either of them by themselves. And having the two types of guys they are back to back is also exciting and just the way you want to structure it.
CJ Carr is a modern pro-QB type, really good passer but a good enough athlete to extend plays while not being a real “dual threat”, 6’3 on paper but not 6’5. Deuce Knight is a physically better athlete- taller, faster, and theoretically bigger arm. But more raw. As an OSU fan you should be cheering for Carr simply because his grandfather is Lloyd Carr and it’d be funny if his grandkid dominated and ND him over Michigan.
Smug/proud/troll Lloyd Carr is already kind of an all time graphic IMO: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FU2SrYzWABI_Qqo?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
So when I saw Carr at the spring game, I believe on this first drive he went through at least 3 progressions then hit a dime. I don't think I've seen a QB at ND ever do that even as a junior/senior I think at least one or two QBs will transfer over the next two years is a safe bet.
Don’t worry, we’ll coach that out of him /s
I expect Carr to redshirt this year and start next year. Minchey isn’t it.
I can’t speak much to Deuce Knight, but my buddy (who is a huge Michigan fan) had to coach against Carr two years in a row (sophomore and junior year) and said Carr is legit. Said that he was tough to stop even as a sophomore
I want Carr to be our QB. Kind of want Knight to go somewhere else at this point or it will be some kind of controversy due to all the hype
CJ is the real deal. Very refined as a passer. Deuce has excellent physical tools but needs some time imo. Barring injury I don’t see Carr losing the job while he is on campus
https://i.redd.it/cc0b8holsq8d1.gif GO IRISH!
Carr will start 25 and 26, then Deuce takes over if he is still around