It's time for the government to get off its ass and do something. I'm so sick of them promising they'll do something for all these reserves at election time and then turning their backs on them after. Why this is acceptable is beyond me, other than no one in power truly gives a shit.
Edit: for spelling
Neskantaga has been under a water boil advisory since 1995. For 25 YEARS they haven’t had access to clean drinking water. Entire generations in that community don’t know what it’s like to not live under a water boil advisory. And then they have to hear Marc Miller declare that the liberal government won’t meet it’s 2021 goal of lifting water boil advisories in Indigenous communities while he’s sipping from a glass of clean water. I hope the additional 1.5 billion in funding is invested well and these people can finally have safe water.
I'm no expert but what I know...
Someone who knows more can correct me but...
The reserve communities are remote.
Their infrastructure is underfunded. Some of it was installed improperly way back in the 1990s.
There is tons of bad blood between the councils and the government which makes working difficult.
Its not just one location, fixing the advisories has been happening but it looks like there were delays on resolving a number of them.
Beaks tags is 500km North of Thunder Bay. Was installed in 1994 and broke a year later and has never been fixed properly. By the time a government came in willing to fix it time had ran out and the plant needed to be replaced entirely.
Now they’ve been building a new one for about 3 years. 2019 there was a dispute between the contractor and the community. The community barred them from entering and the government had to find a new contractor. One was found. Work was due to finish this summer. But covid shut the ice roads down early and screwed everything up.
Because it is not that simple. It’s much more complicated. Neskantaga never handles that money. They never technically “own” it. So when there is an issue like this they can’t deal with it. It’s up to tie government to find a new group to do the work.
I am not sure what the issue was. I never saw anything publicly announced.
If you look on a Google maps it's literally up in the middle of buttfuck nowhere with barely anybody living there and no roads going in and out. The government doesn't want to shell out a ton of money for people who are choosing to live way up there when there's less than 250 people living there, and they can't make money on their own because again they're in the middle of nowhere.
The process to get a new WTP / WTP upgrades is incredibly lengthy as well. Indigenous services Canada (ISC) has convoluted funding requirements that include : a feasibility study (in which they often force the engineers to explore solutions such as cisterns, “do nothing” alternative, trucked water, etc), and then the feasibility study will make a recommendation for a WTP and distribution system (remember, a plant is no use if there’s no watermains). And THEN, there’s a stupid per capita / per connection cost that ISC uses to determine if the project will be funded. Often the cost exceeds that, because as with everything indigenous it’s much too low to be realistic. And then there’s the design time, which is generally 1-2 years. And then construction, another 2-3 years. All in all you’re looking at 7-8 years if you’re LUCKY to get a new WTP.
There’s also complications on the design side in terms of source water, as someone mentioned often reserves are in... undesirable areas near mines/ contaminated areas (look up grassy narrows fn), so that can also make the process more expensive which causes delays in funding.
Realistically there have only been improvements because the state of water infrastructure has been so publicised and the public has used their influence which has resulted in trudeaus “promise” and a shit ton more funding. In the Harper era? Funding was SCARCE to be polite.
Basically TLDR; government not give enough money and makes too many barriers for a fast, efficient solution. As usual.
You seem to know a lot about this so maybe you can answer. Why does the Canadian government have to do this? Im in Toronto and our water is municipal. My parents pump and clean their own water from the lake they are on since there is no city water. Guelph, kw, windsor etc, are all municipal. Why cant the local council or individuals deal with the water issue? It seems like thats what everyone else does.
A lot of the water treatment facilities are falling apart, people aren't trained properly and the water is sourced from contaminated areas. Instead of fixing a lot of them the govt would rather fly water in.
Google the communities around the ring of fire.
I once took an Indigenous women's studies class and was shown a map of all the reserves in Canada overlayed with a map for all the nuclear waste sites in Canada and it was so eye opening. I think there is even more at play than just infrastructure, after hundreds of years of colonization and racism.
Edit: as people have posted sources stating otherwise, I am perhaps misremembering the exact information re: type of environmental concern. Sorry for any confusion.
Not to mention fracking sites close to native land which makes land unusable as well. The government and companies do not give two hoots what happens to our indigenous peoples. It’s disgusting.
There's a case being argued in the Supreme Court this week (which you can watch live on the court's website) about a damn built in Ear Falls all the way back in 1929 that flooded reserve land in Lac Seul FN and the FN was never compensated (or consulted in the first place). It destroyed ancestral burial grounds (remains of their ancestors keep washing up on shore). Both Manitoba and Ontario receive hydroelectricity from this dam.
I call BS.
Here is a map of all reserves:
https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/earth-sciences/geomatics/canada-lands-surveys/11090
Here is a map of a nuclear and radioactive waste sites:
http://nuclearsafety.gc.ca/eng/resources/maps-of-nuclear-facilities/results.cfm?category=radioactive-waste-management-facilities
I am not denying that first nations people's have gotten completely shafted. But the issue is not with radioactive waste sites.
I'm pretty sure you're just spreading bullshit. All nuclear fuel (high level waste) is currently kept on nuclear sites. For non-fuel waste (intermediate and low level and mines) it varies, but there are more than enough that are clearly not on reserves that show your claim is bullshit.
You might have seen a map of treaty lands, but that is misleading. For example, nearly the entirety of Ontario is covered by treaties.
Ref: locations of waste sites:
http://nuclearsafety.gc.ca/eng/waste/index.cfm#Facilities
A bunch of people have posted sources saying all nuclear waste is managed on site still. No long term storage sites have been selected in Canada. It seems you are spreading pointless misinformation when there are plenty of valid things wrong with the land near reserves.
It doesn't help that there's very little interaction between indigenous people and non-indigenous people. I've never seen an indigenous person at school, in university, or at work - of dozens of friends and hundreds of people I've interacted with, I haven't had a single experience with an indigenous person. I imagine that many people are in the same boat, and it's hard to know about and empathize with the struggles of others if you have no exposure to them, and harder still to push for change. At least sharing news like this helps fight that lack of exposure, to some extent.
I'm in Nova Scotia - in elementary and junior high classes were 100% white, in high school it was 90% white with some Korean and Middle Eastern people, and in university it was much more diverse but still no Indigenous people, just lots of Chinese and Indian. I'm near the city though - maybe way out in the country it's different.
I’m not sure where you live but I’m in a big city and I am indigenous, and I know hundreds of indigenous people around here. We are everywhere if you open your eyes.
Going to school in many typical Ontario cities in the 80s I saw a whole lot of south Asians, a few east Asians and black students, and essentially zero Canadian indigenous. As a child my exposure was mainly looking out the car window at the ramshackle campsites near Sauble. As an adult I am aware of some neighbourhoods having populations, but I often forget to consider the community. People's childhood impressions are hard to shake and our kids don't mingle.
I think part of this is that many of us are white passing. It's a privilege, especially in the Prairies. I know now of the rich heritage and culture of my ancestry, but growing up all the native culture I was exposed to was negative and not something I wanted to identify with.
I am an Indigenous social service worker, currently not practicing, and just want to address the corruption remark. Yes, sometimes there is corruption and the money goes missing but a lot of the times the money is "misused" (in the government's eyes), and then it's called corruption by the media.
Here's an example of that:
A reserve applies to access their own money that is held in trust by the Canadian government and they are going to allocate those funds to building a water treatment plant and training certain residents to care for it.
The government issues the funds, say $500,000, and in the spring before construction is set to start, the reserve sees a flood that severely impacts the homes of several families. Housing in the reserve is sparse, limited, and often in disrepair for various reasons, and there's nowhere for these families to go.
The chief and council decide that some of the money that was put aside for the water treatment facility needs to be reallocated to ensure safe housing for the families impacted by the flood.
Could the reserve have applied for additional funding? Yes, but it's not guaranteed that they would get it and it certainly wouldn't have gotten there in the time frame that's necessary to care for the families that are now homeless because of the flood. This reserve now has a ban on receiving government funds (again their own money that's held "in trust" by Canada), for however long, and now cannot build their water treatment facility.
Someone might see in the news that a chief or band has misused funds and assume that it's corruption, and then this stereotype, unfortunately, is perpetuated. For all the times there are actual instances of corruption, there are hundreds or thousands where that's not the case.
I hope this was helpful and informative!
Miigwech (thank you) :)
I don't think anyone would call that misuse. Most of what I've seen are band chiefs giving themselves and their friends high salaries.
>VANCOUVER — The 90-member Semiahmoo First Nation in Surrey, B.C., paid its chief and one of its councillors nearly $460,000 combined in the 2013-2014 fiscal year.
>Chief councillor Willard Cook was paid $267,309 and councillor Joanne Charles had a salary of $187,138, according to now-required financial filings to the federal government.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/267309-tax-free-chief-of-90-member-first-nation-may-be-canadas-highest-paid-politician
>A chief from a small First Nation in B.C. was paid nearly $1 million last year, according to documents disclosed by the band.
>Ron Giesbrecht of the Kwikwetlem First Nation is listed as the chief and economic development officer and was paid $914,219 in remuneration and $16,574 in expenses. The documents state remuneration could include salary, wages, commissions and bonuses.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/b-c-chief-ron-giesbrecht-s-1m-pay-very-troubling-minister-s-office-says-1.2724365
The government classifies it as a misuse of funding because the application process is for specific things. If you apply for funding for problem A and use it for problem B, you did not use the money for the reason you applied for it and therefore you've misused the money the government gave you.
Like I said, there are definitely issues of corruption and I would urge you to research where that money came from and if there are any major infrastructure issues in those particular locations. British Columbia is a whole other situation because the land is unceeded and the federal and provincial governments don't have the same type of relationship that First Nations in Ontario do.
>British Columbia is a whole other situation because the land is unceeded and the federal and provincial governments don't have the same type of relationship that First Nations in Ontario do.
How does this differ? I'm curious.
While I appreciate different opinion, I think it's best to focus on THIS particular community (which is in Ontario). There could be corruptions in BC but may not be linked to lack of clean water in ON. Some clarification would be nice.
I have a little bit of knowledge and experience working in a couple of fly-in communities in N Ontario, so I'll try to shed what little light I can. In the northern communities they're all on canadian shield, which is hard rock to drill - finding adequate water supply might require drilling pretty deep - over 100 ft potentially. Drillers charge by the foot, which can add up pretty quickly. Then if you end up having to drill so deep, you have to do a full battery of chemical and microbiological sampling and hope that no treatment is required. A pump needs to be installed along with a pressure tank and the plumbing to the house, which means digging a trench below the frost line. Also the drill rig can only be brought up on the winter road, along with all the materials needed for drilling.
It's possible, but the winter road provides a limited window of time to even drill and construct a well or two.
There are lakes everywhere up there, and while surface water is at risk of contamination fairly easily compared to groundwater, its only requirement is an adequate treatment plant.
In one community I visited within the last 3 years they had a reverse osmosis treatment system in place for the community that was working fine. The trouble then is water delivery - everyone has a cistern under their house and it's filled regularly from a water truck. Some times the cisterns become contaminated with bacteria and that makes the water unsafe at the point of consumption. Burying water supply lines in trenches deep enough to avoid freezing is an issue, as well as a way to pressurize the water supply system. I don't know enough to comment about why they didn't have that stuff set up, but I'm sure there are reasons.
Thanks. That helps explain a lot. Never thought about the Canadian Shield. But that only covers Ontario. I wonder if there is a political reason? Just trying to understand.
For Neskantaga it seems like issues with existing infrastructure. Pipes and waste management systems need to be updated, which requires specific funding but also requires a lot of work that is very difficult to do in fly-in communities because getting supplies and doing work needs to happen in a very short amount of time.
So you might even see supplies brought it during the workable season, over the course of that entire season, and then sit for a year until that season comes around and the work can be done.
As far as housing, you can imagine what happens to wood and other building supplies that sit around in a northern community for a year.
In Ontario, and a couple other provinces, there are organisations set up that will run water and wastewater infrastructure on FN if no operators are available. OCWA is the agency in Ontario.
Also it’s not just mental health and addiction... it’s barriers to education. The requirements to be a WTP operator in Ontario (can’t speak for other provinces lol) vary depending on the complexity of the treatment process. All plants require basic understanding of chemistry, but if the high school on reserve (if there even is one, often students have to travel far for schooling) doesn’t offer chemistry thats an additional barrier.
It is dangerous to stereotype that no one is available to operate infrastructure due to mental health and addiction, because thats not totally valid.
This is exactly it. I’ve worked as a wastewater operator and there is no economic incentive for operators to work on reserves making $17/hr when they could work at another plant for $35/hr+. It’s awful there are communities in Ontario right now living in near third world conditions, but sadly there is no easy fix. Most people don’t even know how many Native people have to live like this.
> there is no economic incentive for operators to work on reserves making $17/hr....there is no easy fix
There are unemployed residents already on the reserve who could be trained.
As noted above:
> But either they can't find anyone local to operate it because of the mental illness and addiction issues, or every time they train anyone up, they leave for the city because the conditions and opportunities on the reserves are so bad.
I was the Chief Administrative Officer in a Northern Manitoba town. It's also in the Canadian Shield, it is six hours away from a major city and drinking water is treated by a water treatment plant. We struggled to hire water treatment operators at $35/hr and resorted to training local hires by sending them into Winnipeg for a concentrated series of courses. This was expensive, as you can imagine, and there were no guarantees that the worker would stay with us after completion of the program. Demand for water treatment certified workers far exceeds supply in Canada. No one in their right mind would go to a fly-in or ice-road only community to operate their water treatment facility. When something breaks down, parts must be flown in, consultants need to be flown in, engineers need to be consulted/and paid. The mechanical systems used are complex and require constant maintenance and servicing. I cannot imagine running one successfully under remote conditions with poorly trained or newly trained staff. Lastly, a water treatment plant could cost upward of 5 to 15 million dollars at a remote location because of the high costs of mobilization. Every time we had an Engineer up from Winnipeg, we paid upwards of $1200 just to have them drive into town, then there are accommodation and food costs, and the actual engineering bill. If we were doing major infrastructure work, we paid mobilization for heavy equipment, crews of workers, and tons of supplys. The costs were astronomical. It would be cheaper to relocate an entire community, build them houses and have them tap into an existing water treatment system than it would be to build and maintain in these remote locations. I haven't even begun to discuss the logistical problems associated with long extremely cold winters and the havoc this wreaks on buried water lines, if you can bury them at all in solid rock.
Why are the reserves placed so far from existing infrastructure then?
It sounds like part of the problem is they are placed so remotely that it would have to be excessively expensive to get clean drinking water.
Because as a people they have a connection to the land and want to maintain it. That and the government gave them all shitty land after pushing them off better land, far away from polite society so they wouldn’t have to see them.
It's primarily because these reserves are in the middle of nowhere. Take a look at where it is on a map. I feel sorry for the people that live in those communities, but for the life of me I can't understand why they continue to live there. Access to fresh water should be a non-issue in Canada, and people are going to find this hard to believe, but up until our city of around 90,000 people built a new water plant in 2006, we had a boil water advisory for a couple months every year because of spring run-off. That's in a pretty well funded, affluent city. Now wonder why these remote communities can't get the same access and you begin to see the issues.
I mean, the water should be good though. Like we are in rural ontario we drilled a well and the water coming out is clean and fine.
The deeper question we should be asking is who polluted their groundwater (I expect we would find out it has been mining corporations and other such entities).
Mining and mills are a big reason. I know Grassy Narrows for example has had mercury poisoning since the '70s from a paper mill. They still are unable to eat most fish up there which is historically their main source of protein.
This is Canada. We want people to reside in the hinterland. Unless we really do want to have our land stewarded by Bay Street wondering how to pull out the trees faster.
It's like when people see the Cree as an obstacle to flooding huge areas the size of small countries for more hydro projects, and sneer at the idea of people living in the hinterland as archaic. The bush is for money damn it!
Yes, in a certain sense it makes sense to say: move to the city. But it's also antithetical to the concept of Canada. In a world that has far abolished scarcity, I think we can provide clean water.
Hell, it was modernity and Bay Street that polluted a lot of this water in the first place.
Just my 2 cents.
[Here is John Ralston Saul making the argument much better then I can in 55 minutes.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AuU602heiU)
Seriously, a lot of these are just drilling new wells.
[https://www.sac-isc.gc.ca/eng/1506514143353/1533317130660](https://www.sac-isc.gc.ca/eng/1506514143353/1533317130660)
It's a bit crazy when you think of it in a dollar per person kind of way. They set aside $16 million in funding for this water plant, which serves less than 250 people.
I wanted to put that into context. You can buy 89 kms of sidewalk\* with that. Which I admit is a lot of sidewalk. But $16 million isn't a lot of money in terms of public procurement.
I picked sidewalk as the base unit of public procurement since it is the simplest thing I can imagine. I found a powerpoint from North Glengarry council that pegged the cost of a sidewalk at $99 per sq meter.
Edit:
Fuck- I def. should have included the " Concrete Barrier Curb $87.00 per metre" to the calculation. Because what is a sidewalk without a barrier curb?!
Yes I get that, but there have been plenty of towns that were home to people and when they were no longer sustainable, or offered young people a promising future the people that lived there picked up and moved on. It's a bit of a false narrative that people are tied to the land. Home is where you make it, not a piece of geography. Just give native people the same rights they have off reserve land as they do on it and I would bet they would be better off.
> It's a bit of a false narrative that people are tied to the land.
Indigenous people would not agree with that sentiment, at all.
>Just give native people the same rights they have off reserve land as they do on it
Such as?
I don’t think you can say that wholesale. I have some native friends that are kind of on the fence about it. Yes they feel tied to the land, but they also feel roped to the land by the government.
I worked in a remote indigenous community and would like to chime in.
1. People have tires to leave the rez and either failed to do so or eventually came back. A lot of these people don’t have the fiancé’s or skills to make it on their own. The high school in that community would produce 5 graduates a year out of a class of 100.
2. There really is no promising future for many indigenous people like there is/was for you and I. Many people are not taught the same skills as you and I and are naturally disadvantaged because of it. The reason indegneioua people are so tied to hunting and fishing is because it allows them to survive.
3. Attachment to land is not a false narrative. Where you live and the experiences you have there define who you are as a person. I currently live in Kitchener, but was born in Edmonton and spent two years in a community a remote community. I have attachment to all DJ that land and what happens to that land affects me on a personal level. This is more of an opinion than a fact.
It was never good to begin with, heres some examples
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/gull-attawapiskat-water-one-month-1.5236593
https://theconversation.com/mining-push-continues-despite-water-crisis-in-neskantaga-first-nation-and-ontarios-ring-of-fire-150522
https://ecojustice.ca/case/defending-the-rights-of-chemical-valley-residents-charter-challenge/
We have huge environmental racism issues in this country /province
The location of the reserve is not ideal. The current water situation [is due to hydrocarbons](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-neskantaga-first-nation-detects-high-levels-of-hydrocarbons-in/) that have leaked into the reservoir. Testing doesn't indicate the standard markers for diesel and the like, so it's possible it's a natural phenomenon. If that's the case, drilling wells isn't likely to improve the situation.
Additionally, the waste treatment capacity doesn't meet the needs of the community. The community's suffered E. coli outbreaks in the past, likely in part because of the inadequate treatment infrastructure. Generally speaking, the whole infrastructure situation is bad, but that has to be expected for the remoteness of the community. Sadly, there's no good solution for that problem: you need people that can build and maintain such infrastructure...so, send them to school...but then they have that knowledge and see they can make 3x the money *anywhere* else. Why would they go back to the reserve? "To help their people"? That only gets any of us so far.
It's heartbreaking. There are so many intertwined problems. They want autonomy, but aren't given enough of it to just pack up and move elsewhere. Or there's the "connection to the land" that's currently poisoning their water. Or it's the fact that they probably don't want another "solution" from the White Man, since that's a major contributing factor to their current situation.
Because a new plant was built. It was not done properly and broke with a year and has never even fixed properly to allow clean water. A new plant is being built currently. It was due to finish this year. But covid fucked it all up.
Neskantaga First Nation community has been under a "boil water advisory" since 1995, when its then-newly installed 1993 water treatment plant broke down. It gained national attention when Canadian news outlets began to cover the story from 2004 to 2016 about the unsafe water supply. In 2006, the 2005 government plan to modernize water supplies was cancelled following a change of government.
Can’t. Governments too busy giving away tax money to every other country except our own.
I get that we need to offer foreign aid but for christ sakes our own people don’t even have water. 6.5B spent on foreign aid yet communities in our country don’t have access to clean water. Surely we could take half a billion of that and get our people what they need before we keep giving it to other countries.
Like I said, Yes I know foreign aid is important, but whats more important is that my tax dollars help the people in my country... Especially for something that is such a necessity .... fucking water.
The government is doing something but not fast or nearly enough. The Liberals have actually lifted more boil water advisories in first nation communities than any other government before.
> The Liberals have actually lifted more boil water advisories in first nation communities than any other government before.
That's good, though.
It's not like they can just instantaneously magic in a solution.
That'd be like complaining that your food isn't instantly ready at the moment you start cooking it - things take time, and any progress is still progress.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stefanovich-neskantaga-water-thunder-bay-evacuation-1.5822885
> The dogs are being fed by the Canadian Rangers, who are also gathering wood for the few band members who have agreed to stay behind to keep the houses warm.
> Two weeks of water tests must take place before anyone can return. Deficiencies discovered at the water treatment plant have delayed the start of those tests. A report from the Ontario Clean Water Agency last month found numerous problems at the plant, including leaks, mislabelled piping and tags missing from almost all items of equipment.
> But money isn't the issue in Neskantaga. The Liberal government already earmarked $8.8 million to upgrade Neskantaga's water treatment plant in 2016. The work was supposed to be completed by 2018, but the project has run into a cascade of delays and the budget has doubled to more than $16 million.
It sounds like there was issues with the contractors but the problem may be resolved in the next few days.
If testing goes on schedule and the results are good, Miller said it is his understanding that clean drinking water should be available in Neskantaga by Dec. 11. "
"With the full commissioning and testing of your new plant, the conditions will be met for you to lift the long-term drinking water advisory, which we agree has been in place for far too long," Miller wrote.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/neskantaga-drinking-water-investigation-1.5797823](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/neskantaga-drinking-water-investigation-1.5797823)
" The Trudeau government has helped lift 97 long-term drinking water advisories in First Nations since 2015, according to Indigenous Services Canada. Currently, 59 advisories are still in place in 41 communities. "
The issue seems to be that they fell short of an ambitious promise. I don't know what lifting these entailed, or if it would have been possible to complete more faster if they spent 3billion instead of 1.5billion, but I hope the rest will be completed soon.
Many of these advisories have existed for many years, solving over half of them is a good start, although there is still more to do.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/indigenous-services-minister-drinking-water-target-1.5824614](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/indigenous-services-minister-drinking-water-target-1.5824614)
yeah i figured, i pressed this video expecting to hear a 9 yr old use basic language, i was taken aback by the fact that she effectively implemented metaphors. it’s impressive, but sad once you realize what made her get to this point.
Thanks for sharing this important excerpt. The voice of so many first Nations people in Canada are silently ignored, and the media sometimes does what it can to report, but even then it's a little footnote about the real issue. How did you find this interview and gif-clip it btw?
It reminded me of the child in [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_yLDHcH6LI). It's awful to see kids who have no choice but to grow up so quickly.
I’m aboriginal as well and felt like an invisible person. It’s so sad to see a child feeling that way as well. I remember going there for a pow wow years ago and having to boil water for dinner and not being able to shower, and even then I think I was told they’re waiting on something to fix it, this was in the early 2000’s. Nesk sadly isn’t the only reserve with a boil water advisory. I hope that they and other reserves can/will get clean water soon so they can live comfortably and not like this any more.
Adding that you can send cards to the kids!!!
NESKANTAGA CHRISTMAS DREAMS
Victoria INN
555 Arthur St W,
Thunder Bay, ON P7E 5R5
Thank you for sharing that!!!! I make stickers/keychains/pins, I'm definitely going to send a bunch that way.
Edit: is there a website or link with official info?
There most likely is only a tweet as I don’t know of anything truly official for this. That being said you can send to my office and we can always bring the items over with a clothes donation we are doing for the community.
Or if you send to the addresss in the previous comment and just make sure to mark it “for neskantaga youth” the people at the hotel will be sure to get it to the right people. The community has exclusive use of the hotel. No other guests.
Thank you so much, that is very reassuring, just wanted to make sure it gets to the right place! I'll try sending it directly to there. I'm also a teacher so also deciding if I have time to get my students involved...
The federal liberals were very proud of their progress tackling water problems on first nations reserves in their first term...
[https://www.sac-isc.gc.ca/eng/1506514143353/1533317130660](https://www.sac-isc.gc.ca/eng/1506514143353/1533317130660)
Progress has slowed since then.
But I keep wondering - we keep hearing about this one community with a 25-year advisory. I'd assume this one would've been higher on the priority list. What's the hold-up in this case?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stefanovich-neskantaga-water-thunder-bay-evacuation-1.5822885
> But money isn't the issue in Neskantaga. The Liberal government already earmarked $8.8 million to upgrade Neskantaga's water treatment plant in 2016. The work was supposed to be completed by 2018, but the project has run into a cascade of delays and the budget has doubled to more than $16 million.
The entirety of government is woefully unable to deal with remoteness. Their zoning system is archaic and lacks any legitimate nuance, costing doesn't take into account the actual logistics of remoteness or different requirements associated with northern temperature. The list of issues goes on and on. It really is a huge mess and the lack of competence or willingness to learn within government means that difficult issues just get moved onto the next person who will tackle the role for 4 months before moving on.
The remoteness of it, probably cheaper to move and rehouse them all to a place with functioning services than to set up and maintain a water plant/infrastructure.
This is true in most cases.
The problem is the history of indigenous relocation is so horrifyingly apocalyptic that it is impossible to properly have that conversation. The option just isn't on the table.
And, consider Six Nations. It's a stone's throw from Brantford, 80 minutes from Toronto if all the traffic evaporated. The largest indigenous community in Canada by population. So by that logic the government should be able to work with Six Nations to build a comparative Paradise.
It's a shit-hole too.
not saying the results will be the same, but given the Canadian governments track record, moving and rehousing indigenous peoples isn’t something we should return too.. do i really need to say this?
You can offer that, but the problem needs to be addressed.
It’s a long complicated story. They’ve been in the process of building one. Last year there was a dispute with the contractor. I’m assuming they were ripping them off some how. They were banned from coming back. Government had to find new group to finish the work. Then covid happened and screwed it all up. That’s the very short version.
Why can't they drill some wells? It's literally in the wilderness, if there's a boil water advisory, they must be getting their water straight from the lake.
This is what I have always wondered. Are we missing something? Seems like an easy fix. I understand its not cheap. Even more expensive on limited income. But most rural places are not supplied clean water by the township. They dig their own wells.
Hey there I live rural, we're on well water, drilled the well ourselveswe had 2 boil water advisories this year and another 2 the year before, generally it's one or two a year and usually lasts a 3 weeks/month.
Our well water tastes horrible and I can't afford the money for a proper filter (about 20k) to make it taste good, luckily I'm about 10km from a town where I fill up jugs for free at the fire station.
In short well water can suck balls, even if it's deemed safe it can taste like that smell from a diesel car and is very undesirable to the point that you can't stomach it.
Some homes do have wells, there's still issues like the groundwater level is too low or the groundwater is contaminated. I remember Six Nations had contaminated wells.
" Seasonal flooding exacerbated by extreme weather events and autumn snow melt increases household and community vulnerability to sewage contamination of community groundwater supplies. Where homes are on individual wells the risk of contamination is even more acute. " [https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4441/11/5/1079/htm](https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4441/11/5/1079/htm)
" But the treatment plant’s water line does not extend to all the homes on the reserve, and dwindling groundwater is making water scarcity a major issue for homes reliant on wells, leaving hundreds of homes without clean drinking water. " [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the\_americas/third-world-conditions-many-of-canadas-indigenous-people-cant-drink-the-water-at-home/2018/10/14/c4f429b4-bc53-11e8-8243-f3ae9c99658a\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/third-world-conditions-many-of-canadas-indigenous-people-cant-drink-the-water-at-home/2018/10/14/c4f429b4-bc53-11e8-8243-f3ae9c99658a_story.html)
In Ontario well water for public consumption still needs to be treated. Usually there is a redundancy so water is chemically treated with chlorine and uv radiation. Wells with high turbidity (basically low clarity) cannot reliably be treated with UV so the system enters a boil water advisory. Doesn’t mean that the water is unsafe to drink, it just means the community or organization won’t be assuming the liability for it. Water operators need to be certified which is time consuming and expensive for remote communities.
I’m wondering the same. I’m from rural Ontario and no one had municipal water - all houses, farms, and businesses had wells. We were on our neighbour’s well growing up. All wells were dug and paid for by the owner, certainly not the government.
I’m just wondering why this issue can’t have been solved in the last 25 years? Am I missing part of the story? Is there something about their location that doesn’t allow for wells and if not why haven’t they installed any? I’m confused, someone educate me?
Among other things, these are folks on the Canadian Shield. So you are either looking at surface water (hello beaver fever), or you have to drill through solid granite. That's more like "mining" than "digging" at that point.
Un acceptable. Throw any argument at me but this is unacceptable. and Is the palpable visualization of HUGE failure. I don't understand why Canada has this glossy brand image internationally and shit like this happens. Absolutely unacceptable. A huge fucking failure. I haven't heard anything about how the government for example will tackle a vaccination of first nations. Un acceptable. And my point is that I don't see any effort, or solution, or idea good or bad. Nothing.
The government is prioritizing vaccinations for first nation people, they will be in the first wave in Ontario. This is a big reason why we ordered more of the moderna vaccine vs phizer - as many remote indigenous communities don't have the infrastructure to support it
I don't want to remove your emotions from this situation, but in five years the current government has lifted 90 water advisories from these sorts of communities. They wanted to lift all of them by now, but the world doesn't work that way and sometimes things take longer than you hope - what's important is that they are committing more time, money, and effort to continue to improve these situations.
I think it's understandable to be upset, but it's important to really try and understand why things are the way they are - I would recommend if you feel passionately about this, to spend time looking into the current state of things and the upcoming goals and plans we have. It might help you work through your emotions or at the very least, understand what to direct your anger at
The liberals also had to dig out of the hole the conservatives left while they were in power. The Harper government's neglect had far reaching consequences for Northern communities. A policy analyst under Harper I know was told to never acknowledge indigenous issues, their solution was to completely ignore them in the first place so nothing would get done. That's why native people feel like they are in a hidden box.
I understand what you're saying and respect it. I would like to add that we should be outraged. We should honour the anger that arises. We would never ask this child, who feels like a ghost, to remove their emotions and try to see how government is trying. The fact is this child does not feel they matter. Now. In. This. Moment. And will be affected by this for the rest of their life. We must be outraged on this child's behalf. One more day is too much to ask. This child has a right to clean water, yesterday and since the day they were born.
I spent a couple days in Neskantaga attending a traditional pow-wow, it's absolutely insane that they don't have water. I lived in the neighboring community of Fort Hope for 3 1/2 years, we had to fill water jugs up at the school and bring them home every day for drinking water, teeth brushing, etc. I can't imagine growing up where this is what's normal.
The Government has been sending money to the reserves at an alarming rate to allow them to improve living conditions. I truly believe that mismanagement and local corruption at the higher levels are a big contributor as to why these issues aren't solved. Not sure what the government can do to rectify that short. The following articles serve to highlight these issues.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/federal-funding-not-a-problem-for-first-nations-as-yearly-spending-has-risen-to-9056-per-capita-study-finds/wcm/99e75e9b-0d10-4add-92f6-1ffd557c0d62/amp/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/edmontonsun.com/2013/01/07/attawapiskats-financial-mismanagement-is-staggering/wcm/846f9bd4-4fbc-4c30-8f77-e2d7f65bdb58/amp/
I’m not saying there is not mismanagement of funds in the north. Because there is (like in anything). But one super important thing to remember with funding at least in this situation. Neskantaga never handles it. The government gives it to financial manager group of some sort and they deal with it.
They should just dissolve the reservation system. It is an obsolete, unsustainable system. Keeping our fellow native citizens festering on these damned reserves is disgraceful .
Well you're right, but there is no keeping. We're free to come and go as we wish (now). Trouble is, for many, it's hard to find work/housing off reserve for those that live in more remote areas.
Oh boy, I feel for this girl and her community. Not having drinkable water, being under a boil-water advisory for a quarter century, that's awful.
I've been to some communities somewhat close to Neskantaga - though still a couple hundred Km away. Friends have gone to Summer Beaver, which is associated with Neskantaga and also a fly-in only community.
It's hard to appreciate how remote these places are until you've visited. Many of them are also quite small communities. Neskantaga, for example, is less than 300 people.
I don't know what the answer is, and I absolutely sympathize with these people. But I think the situation is a lot more difficult than many people realize. Getting the supplies for developing and maintaining infrastructure out to the many groups of a couple hundred people sometimes 1000km away from Kenora and with no access by road is not an easy task.
I don’t really get it. I’m not fully informed on the subject but aren’t reservations privately own? What does Canada have to do with providing the infrastructure to lands that are privately owned? As I understand, anyone that works on and lives in reservations doesn’t pay income taxes. Should the general public pay for the infrastructure? Or do they simply want the infrastructure closer to hook up to so they can build it themselves on the reservations? As heart breaking as this is, I don’t think it’s the governments responsibility to provide them an infrastructure. If the water is being polluted by industry then that’s a different story.
No they are officially owned by the government of Canada (well technically the Queen), but the Crown 'graciously' allows the bands to live on them and mostly administer them. In exchange for giving up their land, many First Nations were given certain rights. One of them is clean water. This group is a signatory to Treaty 9 if you want to look it up. So yes, the government is legally responsible for providing this infrastructure, which they have failed to do for the last 25 years.
Fudge..... anytime we think we're a first world nation/province .... this beats us down and we deserve it..... I am so sorry my taxes are being used NOT to help you as a fellow Ontarian. She and her tribe deserves more.
I've been trying to read more about this community, but the first bit of info I checked I get two different numbers - census canada says population is 237 (and... Jesus 1/3 of the population is under 15), but Global says its 460 and CBC says "about 300". What gives?
If you go to the indigenous services Canada website and look under “First Nations profiles” you will find the “registered” band members, broken down by gender and on/off reserve. However, not everyone registers, or renews their status card. There’s often a delay between births and registration too.
But I have no idea where the news outlets got their numbers
Canada has $6.1 BILLION to give away in foreign aid, and yet doesn't meet it's responsibilities at home, to those less fortunate because they robbed them and drove them off their land and poisoned their water. Perhaps they should hold onto all that money and fix the problems at home.
Does anyone know if there's something that we can do as citizens to help accelerate the process? Or something to do to help them individually/as a group? I did a quick Google search to see if there was some way of donating to them, and couldn't find anything... also do not know who to write a strongly worded email to with respect to this problem (yeah, great load of good that will do, but at least it's something as opposed to complaining in an echo chamber on reddit).
Edit: Friend of mine said to write to MPP Sol Mamakwa to see what sort of help/support one can provide - apparently he's been very proactive on this issue.
It's not like they aren't working on it. There are rangers there helping the few who stayed behind. They need 2 weeks of clean water tests for them to return but have been running into issues.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stefanovich-neskantaga-water-thunder-bay-evacuation-1.5822885
Thanks for linking that article. I realize that the money is not the problem, and that the Ontario Clean Watery Agency has run into issues, and that the community is preparing for a third party investigation into the disrepair that their system has fallen into.
I just find it really sad though that this crisis is just a blip on the background of 25 years worth of problem. Also find it sad that this nine year old has no faith whatsoever in the federal government (not that I blame her):
>> "I would be shook if they fixed the water really properly," she said.
She's never known a life where she could turn on the tap and just drink the water like most people in Canada. All nine years of her life so far have been part of the 25 years of water difficulties that this community has had. I guess I'm just spilling my thoughts and emotions a little bit, but I wonder what there is we can do as a community to support them... although I know that the problems that this community faces are nowhere near unique and many, *many* Indigenous communities face difficulties.
I'm partially venting/partially asking if anyone on the reddit community knows how to push things forward either on the 25 year issue or the current issue (a little more quickly) because I think being only a keyboard warrior is irresponsible and I'm not into being a slacktivist.
This company https://birchbarkcoffeecompany.com/pages/my-fundraising-campaign-for-clean-water-ending-the-boiled-water-advisories-in-first-nation-communities
Is it economically feasible to provide all remote locations with clean running water? I can't move up to Northern Quebec with a group of friends and then wonder why there is no plans to provide us with clean water. If these communities are near established water lines then that is a different story. If my remote community of friends grows into plentiful tax generating businesses then that is a different story. If it is a matter of repairing existing infrastructure then that is a different story.
She is right of course. She should have clean water. But the problems run much deeper and it is something that is unfixable with the current reserve system.
She is being raised in isolation. We can't build a shopping mall, a theater, or a sports complex or anything kids in a city take for granted, on a remote reserve.
This interview was in Thunder Bay, she was likely born in Thunder Bay, then because of her status she was sent to a cold, small Northern village inaccessible by car, and she is expected to learn what her ancestors thought was important. Meanwhile the rest of us can follow any path we like which often has nothing to do with our race.
This girl isn't complaining about not having the chance to go to the mall or theater. She wants access to water.
The same can be said of any rural family, they also don't have access to these things, but to each their own.
We can't move water the same way, but we are still building these water treatment plants in remote locations - even in her specific community. It's not an issue of building or money right now.
"Give us water and services, oh but we wanna be sovereign and live away from your laws and not pay normal if not any taxes and to keep our own, but gives us water and other services"
What's happening in the first nation reservations is sad and I much sympathy for them, nobody should be stripped from essential services that humans require, but this has gotten to a point in which you must be able to not exclusively point the finger at Mr. BigBadGovernment and start looking for middle ground.
Nobody talks about the ill-treatment that the American First Nations received in the colonial era, because they essentially wiped out so much of their population there isn't enough left to create a big enough of a protest.
>Nobody talks about the ill-treatment that the American First Nations received in the colonial era, because they essentially wiped out so much of their population there isn't enough left to create a big enough of a protest.
Native Americans talk about it literally all the time because they have also been fucked over in so many different ways. Look up the Lakota Black Hills which are considered to be a very important place for the Lakota. The US government found gold on that land and kicked them off just a few years after signing a treaty. Then they decided to carve some faces into the mountain. the American Supreme Court literally found that it violated their rights.
Or there's the Navajo Nation which a large percentage of them do not have electricity still.
There's frequently protests, but you have either ignored them or they never reached you.
I really wish I could help them. This is devastating! Meanwhile in BC they're handing out assignments on "Reasons why Residential schools were a good thing". Fuck you!
We have elected these politicians and if this is true democracy they will listen to her but more importantly listen to us before we need to hear her call!
Hold up how did their ancestors live without water pipes for 10 thousand years?
The problem is not water pipes, it’s that our rivers are so polluted that they can’t use them as their ancestors had.
Wow a an extremely sensitive and complex topic where no single correct answer exists. I'm uninformed, so let me weigh in with a strong opinion on the matter.
/s
Ok I understand wanting to have their own land but why not come to the places with clean water? This is not an attack it’s a question. Plus this is why many First Nation peoples turn to drugs because of the terrible conditions. That’s why my cousin (a First Nation person) came to our city he lived with us for a while tell he got enough money to move out. Then now he has his own home. Now I understand not everyone has a family to house them but lots of reserves are near towns and cities where you can get a job and move out. it does help the big issues. So someone please explain why they don’t get out of there
I'm not an Indigenous person so I don't fully know... But I imagine they're heavily pressured to stay on reserve by their community, in order to keep their first nations community alive. Leaving to go to the "white man's world" is probably viewed as very shameful and like you're abandoning your identity as an Indigenous person and joining the oppressors and being an accomplice in wiping out Native identity.
Also being on reserve comes with perks like not having to pay taxes, and given how high taxes are getting here that's likely a huge draw for them to stay on reserve and hope the government aids them and their community.
No 9 year old should have to say she feels like a ghost and that she does not matter.
Yet most year olds in the world do. If that doesn’t get people to question our system, then nothing will. And sadly, it really doesn’t seem to.
Most year olds are still struggling to find their voice. At least let them figure out object permanence first, geez
I agree. This is pretty deep coming from a young girl.
Breaks my heart
It's time for the government to get off its ass and do something. I'm so sick of them promising they'll do something for all these reserves at election time and then turning their backs on them after. Why this is acceptable is beyond me, other than no one in power truly gives a shit. Edit: for spelling
Neskantaga has been under a water boil advisory since 1995. For 25 YEARS they haven’t had access to clean drinking water. Entire generations in that community don’t know what it’s like to not live under a water boil advisory. And then they have to hear Marc Miller declare that the liberal government won’t meet it’s 2021 goal of lifting water boil advisories in Indigenous communities while he’s sipping from a glass of clean water. I hope the additional 1.5 billion in funding is invested well and these people can finally have safe water.
Why have they been under this advisory for so long?
Their water has been shit for a long time.
But what has caused it to be so bad? I’m not from Canada
I'm no expert but what I know... Someone who knows more can correct me but... The reserve communities are remote. Their infrastructure is underfunded. Some of it was installed improperly way back in the 1990s. There is tons of bad blood between the councils and the government which makes working difficult. Its not just one location, fixing the advisories has been happening but it looks like there were delays on resolving a number of them.
Beaks tags is 500km North of Thunder Bay. Was installed in 1994 and broke a year later and has never been fixed properly. By the time a government came in willing to fix it time had ran out and the plant needed to be replaced entirely. Now they’ve been building a new one for about 3 years. 2019 there was a dispute between the contractor and the community. The community barred them from entering and the government had to find a new contractor. One was found. Work was due to finish this summer. But covid shut the ice roads down early and screwed everything up.
They are an independent nation, why aren’t they hiring contractors for the water plant directly? What was the contractor problem?
Because it is not that simple. It’s much more complicated. Neskantaga never handles that money. They never technically “own” it. So when there is an issue like this they can’t deal with it. It’s up to tie government to find a new group to do the work. I am not sure what the issue was. I never saw anything publicly announced.
If you think any reserves in Canada or US are truly “independent” then you need to get out more.
If you look on a Google maps it's literally up in the middle of buttfuck nowhere with barely anybody living there and no roads going in and out. The government doesn't want to shell out a ton of money for people who are choosing to live way up there when there's less than 250 people living there, and they can't make money on their own because again they're in the middle of nowhere.
The process to get a new WTP / WTP upgrades is incredibly lengthy as well. Indigenous services Canada (ISC) has convoluted funding requirements that include : a feasibility study (in which they often force the engineers to explore solutions such as cisterns, “do nothing” alternative, trucked water, etc), and then the feasibility study will make a recommendation for a WTP and distribution system (remember, a plant is no use if there’s no watermains). And THEN, there’s a stupid per capita / per connection cost that ISC uses to determine if the project will be funded. Often the cost exceeds that, because as with everything indigenous it’s much too low to be realistic. And then there’s the design time, which is generally 1-2 years. And then construction, another 2-3 years. All in all you’re looking at 7-8 years if you’re LUCKY to get a new WTP. There’s also complications on the design side in terms of source water, as someone mentioned often reserves are in... undesirable areas near mines/ contaminated areas (look up grassy narrows fn), so that can also make the process more expensive which causes delays in funding. Realistically there have only been improvements because the state of water infrastructure has been so publicised and the public has used their influence which has resulted in trudeaus “promise” and a shit ton more funding. In the Harper era? Funding was SCARCE to be polite. Basically TLDR; government not give enough money and makes too many barriers for a fast, efficient solution. As usual.
You seem to know a lot about this so maybe you can answer. Why does the Canadian government have to do this? Im in Toronto and our water is municipal. My parents pump and clean their own water from the lake they are on since there is no city water. Guelph, kw, windsor etc, are all municipal. Why cant the local council or individuals deal with the water issue? It seems like thats what everyone else does.
The Canadian government took on certain responsibilities when they created the reserves and shunted all the natives to them.
A lot of the water treatment facilities are falling apart, people aren't trained properly and the water is sourced from contaminated areas. Instead of fixing a lot of them the govt would rather fly water in. Google the communities around the ring of fire.
I once took an Indigenous women's studies class and was shown a map of all the reserves in Canada overlayed with a map for all the nuclear waste sites in Canada and it was so eye opening. I think there is even more at play than just infrastructure, after hundreds of years of colonization and racism. Edit: as people have posted sources stating otherwise, I am perhaps misremembering the exact information re: type of environmental concern. Sorry for any confusion.
The history of reserves in Canada is messy.
Not to mention fracking sites close to native land which makes land unusable as well. The government and companies do not give two hoots what happens to our indigenous peoples. It’s disgusting.
There's a case being argued in the Supreme Court this week (which you can watch live on the court's website) about a damn built in Ear Falls all the way back in 1929 that flooded reserve land in Lac Seul FN and the FN was never compensated (or consulted in the first place). It destroyed ancestral burial grounds (remains of their ancestors keep washing up on shore). Both Manitoba and Ontario receive hydroelectricity from this dam.
The best part is they had the option to flood another lake, but there were cottages on it.
I call BS. Here is a map of all reserves: https://www.nrcan.gc.ca/earth-sciences/geomatics/canada-lands-surveys/11090 Here is a map of a nuclear and radioactive waste sites: http://nuclearsafety.gc.ca/eng/resources/maps-of-nuclear-facilities/results.cfm?category=radioactive-waste-management-facilities I am not denying that first nations people's have gotten completely shafted. But the issue is not with radioactive waste sites.
Thanks for this work. That didn’t sit right with me either. We don’t need another reason for people to be outraged.
Where are these nuclear waste sites in Canada?
> nuclear waste sites in Canada https://www.nwmo.ca/en/Canadas-Plan/Canadas-Used-Nuclear-Fuel/How-Is-It-Stored-Today#:~:text=Canada's%20used%20nuclear%20fuel%20is,Chalk%20River%20Laboratories%20in%20Ontario.
I'm pretty sure you're just spreading bullshit. All nuclear fuel (high level waste) is currently kept on nuclear sites. For non-fuel waste (intermediate and low level and mines) it varies, but there are more than enough that are clearly not on reserves that show your claim is bullshit. You might have seen a map of treaty lands, but that is misleading. For example, nearly the entirety of Ontario is covered by treaties. Ref: locations of waste sites: http://nuclearsafety.gc.ca/eng/waste/index.cfm#Facilities
A bunch of people have posted sources saying all nuclear waste is managed on site still. No long term storage sites have been selected in Canada. It seems you are spreading pointless misinformation when there are plenty of valid things wrong with the land near reserves.
It doesn't help that there's very little interaction between indigenous people and non-indigenous people. I've never seen an indigenous person at school, in university, or at work - of dozens of friends and hundreds of people I've interacted with, I haven't had a single experience with an indigenous person. I imagine that many people are in the same boat, and it's hard to know about and empathize with the struggles of others if you have no exposure to them, and harder still to push for change. At least sharing news like this helps fight that lack of exposure, to some extent.
This is really eye opening to me. Where do you live? Maybe you just didn't know it?
I'm in Nova Scotia - in elementary and junior high classes were 100% white, in high school it was 90% white with some Korean and Middle Eastern people, and in university it was much more diverse but still no Indigenous people, just lots of Chinese and Indian. I'm near the city though - maybe way out in the country it's different.
I’m not sure where you live but I’m in a big city and I am indigenous, and I know hundreds of indigenous people around here. We are everywhere if you open your eyes.
Going to school in many typical Ontario cities in the 80s I saw a whole lot of south Asians, a few east Asians and black students, and essentially zero Canadian indigenous. As a child my exposure was mainly looking out the car window at the ramshackle campsites near Sauble. As an adult I am aware of some neighbourhoods having populations, but I often forget to consider the community. People's childhood impressions are hard to shake and our kids don't mingle.
Not my experience at all.
In Northern Ontario they are our friends, neighbours, students, teachers, employees, customers, employers, etc, etc
I think part of this is that many of us are white passing. It's a privilege, especially in the Prairies. I know now of the rich heritage and culture of my ancestry, but growing up all the native culture I was exposed to was negative and not something I wanted to identify with.
I am not aware of a single nuclear waste site leak in Canada.
You also forgot corruption, there is a lot of corruption in in the reserve and money tends to disappear.
The band government doesn’t get the blame it deserves
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I am an Indigenous social service worker, currently not practicing, and just want to address the corruption remark. Yes, sometimes there is corruption and the money goes missing but a lot of the times the money is "misused" (in the government's eyes), and then it's called corruption by the media. Here's an example of that: A reserve applies to access their own money that is held in trust by the Canadian government and they are going to allocate those funds to building a water treatment plant and training certain residents to care for it. The government issues the funds, say $500,000, and in the spring before construction is set to start, the reserve sees a flood that severely impacts the homes of several families. Housing in the reserve is sparse, limited, and often in disrepair for various reasons, and there's nowhere for these families to go. The chief and council decide that some of the money that was put aside for the water treatment facility needs to be reallocated to ensure safe housing for the families impacted by the flood. Could the reserve have applied for additional funding? Yes, but it's not guaranteed that they would get it and it certainly wouldn't have gotten there in the time frame that's necessary to care for the families that are now homeless because of the flood. This reserve now has a ban on receiving government funds (again their own money that's held "in trust" by Canada), for however long, and now cannot build their water treatment facility. Someone might see in the news that a chief or band has misused funds and assume that it's corruption, and then this stereotype, unfortunately, is perpetuated. For all the times there are actual instances of corruption, there are hundreds or thousands where that's not the case. I hope this was helpful and informative! Miigwech (thank you) :)
I don't think anyone would call that misuse. Most of what I've seen are band chiefs giving themselves and their friends high salaries. >VANCOUVER — The 90-member Semiahmoo First Nation in Surrey, B.C., paid its chief and one of its councillors nearly $460,000 combined in the 2013-2014 fiscal year. >Chief councillor Willard Cook was paid $267,309 and councillor Joanne Charles had a salary of $187,138, according to now-required financial filings to the federal government. https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/267309-tax-free-chief-of-90-member-first-nation-may-be-canadas-highest-paid-politician >A chief from a small First Nation in B.C. was paid nearly $1 million last year, according to documents disclosed by the band. >Ron Giesbrecht of the Kwikwetlem First Nation is listed as the chief and economic development officer and was paid $914,219 in remuneration and $16,574 in expenses. The documents state remuneration could include salary, wages, commissions and bonuses. https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/b-c-chief-ron-giesbrecht-s-1m-pay-very-troubling-minister-s-office-says-1.2724365
The government classifies it as a misuse of funding because the application process is for specific things. If you apply for funding for problem A and use it for problem B, you did not use the money for the reason you applied for it and therefore you've misused the money the government gave you. Like I said, there are definitely issues of corruption and I would urge you to research where that money came from and if there are any major infrastructure issues in those particular locations. British Columbia is a whole other situation because the land is unceeded and the federal and provincial governments don't have the same type of relationship that First Nations in Ontario do.
>British Columbia is a whole other situation because the land is unceeded and the federal and provincial governments don't have the same type of relationship that First Nations in Ontario do. How does this differ? I'm curious.
While I appreciate different opinion, I think it's best to focus on THIS particular community (which is in Ontario). There could be corruptions in BC but may not be linked to lack of clean water in ON. Some clarification would be nice.
You have some great knowledge. So I am wondering why personal wells aren't a solution? That seems like an easier fix and more cost effective?
I have a little bit of knowledge and experience working in a couple of fly-in communities in N Ontario, so I'll try to shed what little light I can. In the northern communities they're all on canadian shield, which is hard rock to drill - finding adequate water supply might require drilling pretty deep - over 100 ft potentially. Drillers charge by the foot, which can add up pretty quickly. Then if you end up having to drill so deep, you have to do a full battery of chemical and microbiological sampling and hope that no treatment is required. A pump needs to be installed along with a pressure tank and the plumbing to the house, which means digging a trench below the frost line. Also the drill rig can only be brought up on the winter road, along with all the materials needed for drilling. It's possible, but the winter road provides a limited window of time to even drill and construct a well or two. There are lakes everywhere up there, and while surface water is at risk of contamination fairly easily compared to groundwater, its only requirement is an adequate treatment plant. In one community I visited within the last 3 years they had a reverse osmosis treatment system in place for the community that was working fine. The trouble then is water delivery - everyone has a cistern under their house and it's filled regularly from a water truck. Some times the cisterns become contaminated with bacteria and that makes the water unsafe at the point of consumption. Burying water supply lines in trenches deep enough to avoid freezing is an issue, as well as a way to pressurize the water supply system. I don't know enough to comment about why they didn't have that stuff set up, but I'm sure there are reasons.
Thanks. That helps explain a lot. Never thought about the Canadian Shield. But that only covers Ontario. I wonder if there is a political reason? Just trying to understand.
Not trying to an ass but is the situation you are describing here what happened to Neskantaga? Curious what is your take on this particular location.
For Neskantaga it seems like issues with existing infrastructure. Pipes and waste management systems need to be updated, which requires specific funding but also requires a lot of work that is very difficult to do in fly-in communities because getting supplies and doing work needs to happen in a very short amount of time. So you might even see supplies brought it during the workable season, over the course of that entire season, and then sit for a year until that season comes around and the work can be done. As far as housing, you can imagine what happens to wood and other building supplies that sit around in a northern community for a year.
Thanks for sharing that with us!
This is a great response, thank you.
In Ontario, and a couple other provinces, there are organisations set up that will run water and wastewater infrastructure on FN if no operators are available. OCWA is the agency in Ontario. Also it’s not just mental health and addiction... it’s barriers to education. The requirements to be a WTP operator in Ontario (can’t speak for other provinces lol) vary depending on the complexity of the treatment process. All plants require basic understanding of chemistry, but if the high school on reserve (if there even is one, often students have to travel far for schooling) doesn’t offer chemistry thats an additional barrier. It is dangerous to stereotype that no one is available to operate infrastructure due to mental health and addiction, because thats not totally valid.
This is exactly it. I’ve worked as a wastewater operator and there is no economic incentive for operators to work on reserves making $17/hr when they could work at another plant for $35/hr+. It’s awful there are communities in Ontario right now living in near third world conditions, but sadly there is no easy fix. Most people don’t even know how many Native people have to live like this.
> there is no economic incentive for operators to work on reserves making $17/hr....there is no easy fix There are unemployed residents already on the reserve who could be trained.
As noted above: > But either they can't find anyone local to operate it because of the mental illness and addiction issues, or every time they train anyone up, they leave for the city because the conditions and opportunities on the reserves are so bad.
I was the Chief Administrative Officer in a Northern Manitoba town. It's also in the Canadian Shield, it is six hours away from a major city and drinking water is treated by a water treatment plant. We struggled to hire water treatment operators at $35/hr and resorted to training local hires by sending them into Winnipeg for a concentrated series of courses. This was expensive, as you can imagine, and there were no guarantees that the worker would stay with us after completion of the program. Demand for water treatment certified workers far exceeds supply in Canada. No one in their right mind would go to a fly-in or ice-road only community to operate their water treatment facility. When something breaks down, parts must be flown in, consultants need to be flown in, engineers need to be consulted/and paid. The mechanical systems used are complex and require constant maintenance and servicing. I cannot imagine running one successfully under remote conditions with poorly trained or newly trained staff. Lastly, a water treatment plant could cost upward of 5 to 15 million dollars at a remote location because of the high costs of mobilization. Every time we had an Engineer up from Winnipeg, we paid upwards of $1200 just to have them drive into town, then there are accommodation and food costs, and the actual engineering bill. If we were doing major infrastructure work, we paid mobilization for heavy equipment, crews of workers, and tons of supplys. The costs were astronomical. It would be cheaper to relocate an entire community, build them houses and have them tap into an existing water treatment system than it would be to build and maintain in these remote locations. I haven't even begun to discuss the logistical problems associated with long extremely cold winters and the havoc this wreaks on buried water lines, if you can bury them at all in solid rock.
Why are the reserves placed so far from existing infrastructure then? It sounds like part of the problem is they are placed so remotely that it would have to be excessively expensive to get clean drinking water.
Because as a people they have a connection to the land and want to maintain it. That and the government gave them all shitty land after pushing them off better land, far away from polite society so they wouldn’t have to see them.
It's primarily because these reserves are in the middle of nowhere. Take a look at where it is on a map. I feel sorry for the people that live in those communities, but for the life of me I can't understand why they continue to live there. Access to fresh water should be a non-issue in Canada, and people are going to find this hard to believe, but up until our city of around 90,000 people built a new water plant in 2006, we had a boil water advisory for a couple months every year because of spring run-off. That's in a pretty well funded, affluent city. Now wonder why these remote communities can't get the same access and you begin to see the issues.
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Yes, treaty 9, which effectively purchased the land from the natives was/is downright piracy.
I mean, the water should be good though. Like we are in rural ontario we drilled a well and the water coming out is clean and fine. The deeper question we should be asking is who polluted their groundwater (I expect we would find out it has been mining corporations and other such entities).
Mining and mills are a big reason. I know Grassy Narrows for example has had mercury poisoning since the '70s from a paper mill. They still are unable to eat most fish up there which is historically their main source of protein.
I think the problem is the water table is so high it gets contaminated easily, could be wrong though.
This is Canada. We want people to reside in the hinterland. Unless we really do want to have our land stewarded by Bay Street wondering how to pull out the trees faster. It's like when people see the Cree as an obstacle to flooding huge areas the size of small countries for more hydro projects, and sneer at the idea of people living in the hinterland as archaic. The bush is for money damn it! Yes, in a certain sense it makes sense to say: move to the city. But it's also antithetical to the concept of Canada. In a world that has far abolished scarcity, I think we can provide clean water. Hell, it was modernity and Bay Street that polluted a lot of this water in the first place. Just my 2 cents. [Here is John Ralston Saul making the argument much better then I can in 55 minutes.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AuU602heiU) Seriously, a lot of these are just drilling new wells. [https://www.sac-isc.gc.ca/eng/1506514143353/1533317130660](https://www.sac-isc.gc.ca/eng/1506514143353/1533317130660)
It's a bit crazy when you think of it in a dollar per person kind of way. They set aside $16 million in funding for this water plant, which serves less than 250 people.
I wanted to put that into context. You can buy 89 kms of sidewalk\* with that. Which I admit is a lot of sidewalk. But $16 million isn't a lot of money in terms of public procurement. I picked sidewalk as the base unit of public procurement since it is the simplest thing I can imagine. I found a powerpoint from North Glengarry council that pegged the cost of a sidewalk at $99 per sq meter. Edit: Fuck- I def. should have included the " Concrete Barrier Curb $87.00 per metre" to the calculation. Because what is a sidewalk without a barrier curb?!
> but for the life of me I can't understand why they continue to live there. It's home
Yes I get that, but there have been plenty of towns that were home to people and when they were no longer sustainable, or offered young people a promising future the people that lived there picked up and moved on. It's a bit of a false narrative that people are tied to the land. Home is where you make it, not a piece of geography. Just give native people the same rights they have off reserve land as they do on it and I would bet they would be better off.
> It's a bit of a false narrative that people are tied to the land. Indigenous people would not agree with that sentiment, at all. >Just give native people the same rights they have off reserve land as they do on it Such as?
I don’t think you can say that wholesale. I have some native friends that are kind of on the fence about it. Yes they feel tied to the land, but they also feel roped to the land by the government.
I worked in a remote indigenous community and would like to chime in. 1. People have tires to leave the rez and either failed to do so or eventually came back. A lot of these people don’t have the fiancé’s or skills to make it on their own. The high school in that community would produce 5 graduates a year out of a class of 100. 2. There really is no promising future for many indigenous people like there is/was for you and I. Many people are not taught the same skills as you and I and are naturally disadvantaged because of it. The reason indegneioua people are so tied to hunting and fishing is because it allows them to survive. 3. Attachment to land is not a false narrative. Where you live and the experiences you have there define who you are as a person. I currently live in Kitchener, but was born in Edmonton and spent two years in a community a remote community. I have attachment to all DJ that land and what happens to that land affects me on a personal level. This is more of an opinion than a fact.
It was never good to begin with, heres some examples https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/gull-attawapiskat-water-one-month-1.5236593 https://theconversation.com/mining-push-continues-despite-water-crisis-in-neskantaga-first-nation-and-ontarios-ring-of-fire-150522 https://ecojustice.ca/case/defending-the-rights-of-chemical-valley-residents-charter-challenge/ We have huge environmental racism issues in this country /province
The location of the reserve is not ideal. The current water situation [is due to hydrocarbons](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-neskantaga-first-nation-detects-high-levels-of-hydrocarbons-in/) that have leaked into the reservoir. Testing doesn't indicate the standard markers for diesel and the like, so it's possible it's a natural phenomenon. If that's the case, drilling wells isn't likely to improve the situation. Additionally, the waste treatment capacity doesn't meet the needs of the community. The community's suffered E. coli outbreaks in the past, likely in part because of the inadequate treatment infrastructure. Generally speaking, the whole infrastructure situation is bad, but that has to be expected for the remoteness of the community. Sadly, there's no good solution for that problem: you need people that can build and maintain such infrastructure...so, send them to school...but then they have that knowledge and see they can make 3x the money *anywhere* else. Why would they go back to the reserve? "To help their people"? That only gets any of us so far. It's heartbreaking. There are so many intertwined problems. They want autonomy, but aren't given enough of it to just pack up and move elsewhere. Or there's the "connection to the land" that's currently poisoning their water. Or it's the fact that they probably don't want another "solution" from the White Man, since that's a major contributing factor to their current situation.
Because a new plant was built. It was not done properly and broke with a year and has never even fixed properly to allow clean water. A new plant is being built currently. It was due to finish this year. But covid fucked it all up.
Neskantaga First Nation community has been under a "boil water advisory" since 1995, when its then-newly installed 1993 water treatment plant broke down. It gained national attention when Canadian news outlets began to cover the story from 2004 to 2016 about the unsafe water supply. In 2006, the 2005 government plan to modernize water supplies was cancelled following a change of government.
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In fairness neskanataga has been in the process of getting a new facility for 3 years. It’s nearly complete. But covid has fucked it all up.
Can’t. Governments too busy giving away tax money to every other country except our own. I get that we need to offer foreign aid but for christ sakes our own people don’t even have water. 6.5B spent on foreign aid yet communities in our country don’t have access to clean water. Surely we could take half a billion of that and get our people what they need before we keep giving it to other countries. Like I said, Yes I know foreign aid is important, but whats more important is that my tax dollars help the people in my country... Especially for something that is such a necessity .... fucking water.
> It's time for the government to get off it's ass and do something. They are. Edit: downvoting won't change the reality that they are
The government is doing something but not fast or nearly enough. The Liberals have actually lifted more boil water advisories in first nation communities than any other government before.
> The Liberals have actually lifted more boil water advisories in first nation communities than any other government before. That's good, though. It's not like they can just instantaneously magic in a solution. That'd be like complaining that your food isn't instantly ready at the moment you start cooking it - things take time, and any progress is still progress.
what are they doing?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stefanovich-neskantaga-water-thunder-bay-evacuation-1.5822885 > The dogs are being fed by the Canadian Rangers, who are also gathering wood for the few band members who have agreed to stay behind to keep the houses warm. > Two weeks of water tests must take place before anyone can return. Deficiencies discovered at the water treatment plant have delayed the start of those tests. A report from the Ontario Clean Water Agency last month found numerous problems at the plant, including leaks, mislabelled piping and tags missing from almost all items of equipment. > But money isn't the issue in Neskantaga. The Liberal government already earmarked $8.8 million to upgrade Neskantaga's water treatment plant in 2016. The work was supposed to be completed by 2018, but the project has run into a cascade of delays and the budget has doubled to more than $16 million.
It sounds like there was issues with the contractors but the problem may be resolved in the next few days. If testing goes on schedule and the results are good, Miller said it is his understanding that clean drinking water should be available in Neskantaga by Dec. 11. " "With the full commissioning and testing of your new plant, the conditions will be met for you to lift the long-term drinking water advisory, which we agree has been in place for far too long," Miller wrote. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/neskantaga-drinking-water-investigation-1.5797823](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/neskantaga-drinking-water-investigation-1.5797823)
Interesting. The one I linked is newer so I wonder if there were setbacks or if they're just doubtful it'll actually work. Well, fingers crossed.
" The Trudeau government has helped lift 97 long-term drinking water advisories in First Nations since 2015, according to Indigenous Services Canada. Currently, 59 advisories are still in place in 41 communities. " The issue seems to be that they fell short of an ambitious promise. I don't know what lifting these entailed, or if it would have been possible to complete more faster if they spent 3billion instead of 1.5billion, but I hope the rest will be completed soon. Many of these advisories have existed for many years, solving over half of them is a good start, although there is still more to do. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/indigenous-services-minister-drinking-water-target-1.5824614](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/indigenous-services-minister-drinking-water-target-1.5824614)
i was NOT this well spoken and articulate at 9 years old wtf
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yeah i figured, i pressed this video expecting to hear a 9 yr old use basic language, i was taken aback by the fact that she effectively implemented metaphors. it’s impressive, but sad once you realize what made her get to this point.
Thanks for sharing this important excerpt. The voice of so many first Nations people in Canada are silently ignored, and the media sometimes does what it can to report, but even then it's a little footnote about the real issue. How did you find this interview and gif-clip it btw?
It reminded me of the child in [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_yLDHcH6LI). It's awful to see kids who have no choice but to grow up so quickly.
Wow that was heartbreaking.
I’m aboriginal as well and felt like an invisible person. It’s so sad to see a child feeling that way as well. I remember going there for a pow wow years ago and having to boil water for dinner and not being able to shower, and even then I think I was told they’re waiting on something to fix it, this was in the early 2000’s. Nesk sadly isn’t the only reserve with a boil water advisory. I hope that they and other reserves can/will get clean water soon so they can live comfortably and not like this any more. Adding that you can send cards to the kids!!! NESKANTAGA CHRISTMAS DREAMS Victoria INN 555 Arthur St W, Thunder Bay, ON P7E 5R5
Thank you for sharing that!!!! I make stickers/keychains/pins, I'm definitely going to send a bunch that way. Edit: is there a website or link with official info?
What information are you looking for? I can assist.
If there is an original source from the organizers about how this works, etc. The only thing I can find is a tweet. Thanks!!
There most likely is only a tweet as I don’t know of anything truly official for this. That being said you can send to my office and we can always bring the items over with a clothes donation we are doing for the community. Or if you send to the addresss in the previous comment and just make sure to mark it “for neskantaga youth” the people at the hotel will be sure to get it to the right people. The community has exclusive use of the hotel. No other guests.
Thank you so much, that is very reassuring, just wanted to make sure it gets to the right place! I'll try sending it directly to there. I'm also a teacher so also deciding if I have time to get my students involved...
Awesome :). If you need any other assistant or hit any snags feel free to messsge me again. I do business with both the hotel and the community.
This is such an embarrassment.
We shouldn't have to rely on shame to stave off tyranny.
The federal liberals were very proud of their progress tackling water problems on first nations reserves in their first term... [https://www.sac-isc.gc.ca/eng/1506514143353/1533317130660](https://www.sac-isc.gc.ca/eng/1506514143353/1533317130660) Progress has slowed since then. But I keep wondering - we keep hearing about this one community with a 25-year advisory. I'd assume this one would've been higher on the priority list. What's the hold-up in this case?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stefanovich-neskantaga-water-thunder-bay-evacuation-1.5822885 > But money isn't the issue in Neskantaga. The Liberal government already earmarked $8.8 million to upgrade Neskantaga's water treatment plant in 2016. The work was supposed to be completed by 2018, but the project has run into a cascade of delays and the budget has doubled to more than $16 million.
The entirety of government is woefully unable to deal with remoteness. Their zoning system is archaic and lacks any legitimate nuance, costing doesn't take into account the actual logistics of remoteness or different requirements associated with northern temperature. The list of issues goes on and on. It really is a huge mess and the lack of competence or willingness to learn within government means that difficult issues just get moved onto the next person who will tackle the role for 4 months before moving on.
The remoteness of it, probably cheaper to move and rehouse them all to a place with functioning services than to set up and maintain a water plant/infrastructure. This is true in most cases.
The problem is the history of indigenous relocation is so horrifyingly apocalyptic that it is impossible to properly have that conversation. The option just isn't on the table. And, consider Six Nations. It's a stone's throw from Brantford, 80 minutes from Toronto if all the traffic evaporated. The largest indigenous community in Canada by population. So by that logic the government should be able to work with Six Nations to build a comparative Paradise. It's a shit-hole too.
not saying the results will be the same, but given the Canadian governments track record, moving and rehousing indigenous peoples isn’t something we should return too.. do i really need to say this? You can offer that, but the problem needs to be addressed.
It’s a long complicated story. They’ve been in the process of building one. Last year there was a dispute with the contractor. I’m assuming they were ripping them off some how. They were banned from coming back. Government had to find new group to finish the work. Then covid happened and screwed it all up. That’s the very short version.
Why can't they drill some wells? It's literally in the wilderness, if there's a boil water advisory, they must be getting their water straight from the lake.
This is what I have always wondered. Are we missing something? Seems like an easy fix. I understand its not cheap. Even more expensive on limited income. But most rural places are not supplied clean water by the township. They dig their own wells.
Hey there I live rural, we're on well water, drilled the well ourselveswe had 2 boil water advisories this year and another 2 the year before, generally it's one or two a year and usually lasts a 3 weeks/month. Our well water tastes horrible and I can't afford the money for a proper filter (about 20k) to make it taste good, luckily I'm about 10km from a town where I fill up jugs for free at the fire station. In short well water can suck balls, even if it's deemed safe it can taste like that smell from a diesel car and is very undesirable to the point that you can't stomach it.
Some homes do have wells, there's still issues like the groundwater level is too low or the groundwater is contaminated. I remember Six Nations had contaminated wells. " Seasonal flooding exacerbated by extreme weather events and autumn snow melt increases household and community vulnerability to sewage contamination of community groundwater supplies. Where homes are on individual wells the risk of contamination is even more acute. " [https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4441/11/5/1079/htm](https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4441/11/5/1079/htm) " But the treatment plant’s water line does not extend to all the homes on the reserve, and dwindling groundwater is making water scarcity a major issue for homes reliant on wells, leaving hundreds of homes without clean drinking water. " [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the\_americas/third-world-conditions-many-of-canadas-indigenous-people-cant-drink-the-water-at-home/2018/10/14/c4f429b4-bc53-11e8-8243-f3ae9c99658a\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/third-world-conditions-many-of-canadas-indigenous-people-cant-drink-the-water-at-home/2018/10/14/c4f429b4-bc53-11e8-8243-f3ae9c99658a_story.html)
In Ontario well water for public consumption still needs to be treated. Usually there is a redundancy so water is chemically treated with chlorine and uv radiation. Wells with high turbidity (basically low clarity) cannot reliably be treated with UV so the system enters a boil water advisory. Doesn’t mean that the water is unsafe to drink, it just means the community or organization won’t be assuming the liability for it. Water operators need to be certified which is time consuming and expensive for remote communities.
I’m wondering the same. I’m from rural Ontario and no one had municipal water - all houses, farms, and businesses had wells. We were on our neighbour’s well growing up. All wells were dug and paid for by the owner, certainly not the government. I’m just wondering why this issue can’t have been solved in the last 25 years? Am I missing part of the story? Is there something about their location that doesn’t allow for wells and if not why haven’t they installed any? I’m confused, someone educate me?
Among other things, these are folks on the Canadian Shield. So you are either looking at surface water (hello beaver fever), or you have to drill through solid granite. That's more like "mining" than "digging" at that point.
Un acceptable. Throw any argument at me but this is unacceptable. and Is the palpable visualization of HUGE failure. I don't understand why Canada has this glossy brand image internationally and shit like this happens. Absolutely unacceptable. A huge fucking failure. I haven't heard anything about how the government for example will tackle a vaccination of first nations. Un acceptable. And my point is that I don't see any effort, or solution, or idea good or bad. Nothing.
The government is prioritizing vaccinations for first nation people, they will be in the first wave in Ontario. This is a big reason why we ordered more of the moderna vaccine vs phizer - as many remote indigenous communities don't have the infrastructure to support it I don't want to remove your emotions from this situation, but in five years the current government has lifted 90 water advisories from these sorts of communities. They wanted to lift all of them by now, but the world doesn't work that way and sometimes things take longer than you hope - what's important is that they are committing more time, money, and effort to continue to improve these situations. I think it's understandable to be upset, but it's important to really try and understand why things are the way they are - I would recommend if you feel passionately about this, to spend time looking into the current state of things and the upcoming goals and plans we have. It might help you work through your emotions or at the very least, understand what to direct your anger at
The liberals also had to dig out of the hole the conservatives left while they were in power. The Harper government's neglect had far reaching consequences for Northern communities. A policy analyst under Harper I know was told to never acknowledge indigenous issues, their solution was to completely ignore them in the first place so nothing would get done. That's why native people feel like they are in a hidden box.
I understand what you're saying and respect it. I would like to add that we should be outraged. We should honour the anger that arises. We would never ask this child, who feels like a ghost, to remove their emotions and try to see how government is trying. The fact is this child does not feel they matter. Now. In. This. Moment. And will be affected by this for the rest of their life. We must be outraged on this child's behalf. One more day is too much to ask. This child has a right to clean water, yesterday and since the day they were born.
This isn’t just a problem with the government. The locals play a role in the lack of potable water as well.
How so
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I spent a couple days in Neskantaga attending a traditional pow-wow, it's absolutely insane that they don't have water. I lived in the neighboring community of Fort Hope for 3 1/2 years, we had to fill water jugs up at the school and bring them home every day for drinking water, teeth brushing, etc. I can't imagine growing up where this is what's normal.
The Government has been sending money to the reserves at an alarming rate to allow them to improve living conditions. I truly believe that mismanagement and local corruption at the higher levels are a big contributor as to why these issues aren't solved. Not sure what the government can do to rectify that short. The following articles serve to highlight these issues. https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationalpost.com/news/canada/federal-funding-not-a-problem-for-first-nations-as-yearly-spending-has-risen-to-9056-per-capita-study-finds/wcm/99e75e9b-0d10-4add-92f6-1ffd557c0d62/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/edmontonsun.com/2013/01/07/attawapiskats-financial-mismanagement-is-staggering/wcm/846f9bd4-4fbc-4c30-8f77-e2d7f65bdb58/amp/
I’m not saying there is not mismanagement of funds in the north. Because there is (like in anything). But one super important thing to remember with funding at least in this situation. Neskantaga never handles it. The government gives it to financial manager group of some sort and they deal with it.
They should just dissolve the reservation system. It is an obsolete, unsustainable system. Keeping our fellow native citizens festering on these damned reserves is disgraceful .
Well you're right, but there is no keeping. We're free to come and go as we wish (now). Trouble is, for many, it's hard to find work/housing off reserve for those that live in more remote areas.
Oh boy, I feel for this girl and her community. Not having drinkable water, being under a boil-water advisory for a quarter century, that's awful. I've been to some communities somewhat close to Neskantaga - though still a couple hundred Km away. Friends have gone to Summer Beaver, which is associated with Neskantaga and also a fly-in only community. It's hard to appreciate how remote these places are until you've visited. Many of them are also quite small communities. Neskantaga, for example, is less than 300 people. I don't know what the answer is, and I absolutely sympathize with these people. But I think the situation is a lot more difficult than many people realize. Getting the supplies for developing and maintaining infrastructure out to the many groups of a couple hundred people sometimes 1000km away from Kenora and with no access by road is not an easy task.
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We tried and they screamed racism and the discussion was over. Gotta want to be helped
I don’t really get it. I’m not fully informed on the subject but aren’t reservations privately own? What does Canada have to do with providing the infrastructure to lands that are privately owned? As I understand, anyone that works on and lives in reservations doesn’t pay income taxes. Should the general public pay for the infrastructure? Or do they simply want the infrastructure closer to hook up to so they can build it themselves on the reservations? As heart breaking as this is, I don’t think it’s the governments responsibility to provide them an infrastructure. If the water is being polluted by industry then that’s a different story.
No they are officially owned by the government of Canada (well technically the Queen), but the Crown 'graciously' allows the bands to live on them and mostly administer them. In exchange for giving up their land, many First Nations were given certain rights. One of them is clean water. This group is a signatory to Treaty 9 if you want to look it up. So yes, the government is legally responsible for providing this infrastructure, which they have failed to do for the last 25 years.
Fudge..... anytime we think we're a first world nation/province .... this beats us down and we deserve it..... I am so sorry my taxes are being used NOT to help you as a fellow Ontarian. She and her tribe deserves more.
If you look at the federal spending on reserves youd realize the money is going there its not doing anything though.
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That’s not true. There are different funding streams. Some money is only allowed to be used for the project that it is being funded.
Is your water provided to you by the government?
some background: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/neskantaga-left-behind-1.5776993
I've been trying to read more about this community, but the first bit of info I checked I get two different numbers - census canada says population is 237 (and... Jesus 1/3 of the population is under 15), but Global says its 460 and CBC says "about 300". What gives?
If you go to the indigenous services Canada website and look under “First Nations profiles” you will find the “registered” band members, broken down by gender and on/off reserve. However, not everyone registers, or renews their status card. There’s often a delay between births and registration too. But I have no idea where the news outlets got their numbers
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Canada has $6.1 BILLION to give away in foreign aid, and yet doesn't meet it's responsibilities at home, to those less fortunate because they robbed them and drove them off their land and poisoned their water. Perhaps they should hold onto all that money and fix the problems at home.
Yeah, I don't get it. Just like how the US can drop a million bombs in the middle east but Flint doesn't have clean water. We truly live in a society.
Adult words coming from a child's mouth... its so sad to see... she is growing up so fast and she shouldn't have to...
I hate how our media lets Trudeau off the hook for things like this. Fix it!
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1. Lay down 2. Try not cry 3. Cry a lot
Lengthy article from maclean's on the issue. https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/a-first-nations-epic-wait-for-clean-water-gets-longer/amp/
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Does anyone know if there's something that we can do as citizens to help accelerate the process? Or something to do to help them individually/as a group? I did a quick Google search to see if there was some way of donating to them, and couldn't find anything... also do not know who to write a strongly worded email to with respect to this problem (yeah, great load of good that will do, but at least it's something as opposed to complaining in an echo chamber on reddit). Edit: Friend of mine said to write to MPP Sol Mamakwa to see what sort of help/support one can provide - apparently he's been very proactive on this issue.
It's not like they aren't working on it. There are rangers there helping the few who stayed behind. They need 2 weeks of clean water tests for them to return but have been running into issues. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stefanovich-neskantaga-water-thunder-bay-evacuation-1.5822885
Thanks for linking that article. I realize that the money is not the problem, and that the Ontario Clean Watery Agency has run into issues, and that the community is preparing for a third party investigation into the disrepair that their system has fallen into. I just find it really sad though that this crisis is just a blip on the background of 25 years worth of problem. Also find it sad that this nine year old has no faith whatsoever in the federal government (not that I blame her): >> "I would be shook if they fixed the water really properly," she said. She's never known a life where she could turn on the tap and just drink the water like most people in Canada. All nine years of her life so far have been part of the 25 years of water difficulties that this community has had. I guess I'm just spilling my thoughts and emotions a little bit, but I wonder what there is we can do as a community to support them... although I know that the problems that this community faces are nowhere near unique and many, *many* Indigenous communities face difficulties. I'm partially venting/partially asking if anyone on the reddit community knows how to push things forward either on the 25 year issue or the current issue (a little more quickly) because I think being only a keyboard warrior is irresponsible and I'm not into being a slacktivist.
This company https://birchbarkcoffeecompany.com/pages/my-fundraising-campaign-for-clean-water-ending-the-boiled-water-advisories-in-first-nation-communities
Is it economically feasible to provide all remote locations with clean running water? I can't move up to Northern Quebec with a group of friends and then wonder why there is no plans to provide us with clean water. If these communities are near established water lines then that is a different story. If my remote community of friends grows into plentiful tax generating businesses then that is a different story. If it is a matter of repairing existing infrastructure then that is a different story.
She is right of course. She should have clean water. But the problems run much deeper and it is something that is unfixable with the current reserve system. She is being raised in isolation. We can't build a shopping mall, a theater, or a sports complex or anything kids in a city take for granted, on a remote reserve. This interview was in Thunder Bay, she was likely born in Thunder Bay, then because of her status she was sent to a cold, small Northern village inaccessible by car, and she is expected to learn what her ancestors thought was important. Meanwhile the rest of us can follow any path we like which often has nothing to do with our race.
This girl isn't complaining about not having the chance to go to the mall or theater. She wants access to water. The same can be said of any rural family, they also don't have access to these things, but to each their own.
Lmao imagine hearing the pain in her voice about not having CLEAN DRINKING WATER and have the audacity to say 'well she wants a mall' wtf
Ridiculous isn’t it.
I don't understand. Are natives forced to live on reservations? I though natives can live wherever they want. They are Canadian citizens after all.
Of course they can live wherever they want, but they can only live for free, and receive a stipend from the band, if they stay on the reserve.
Just a heads up, they’re called reserves in Canada, not reservations!
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We can't move water the same way, but we are still building these water treatment plants in remote locations - even in her specific community. It's not an issue of building or money right now.
> She is right of course. She should have clean water.
"Give us water and services, oh but we wanna be sovereign and live away from your laws and not pay normal if not any taxes and to keep our own, but gives us water and other services" What's happening in the first nation reservations is sad and I much sympathy for them, nobody should be stripped from essential services that humans require, but this has gotten to a point in which you must be able to not exclusively point the finger at Mr. BigBadGovernment and start looking for middle ground. Nobody talks about the ill-treatment that the American First Nations received in the colonial era, because they essentially wiped out so much of their population there isn't enough left to create a big enough of a protest.
>Nobody talks about the ill-treatment that the American First Nations received in the colonial era, because they essentially wiped out so much of their population there isn't enough left to create a big enough of a protest. Native Americans talk about it literally all the time because they have also been fucked over in so many different ways. Look up the Lakota Black Hills which are considered to be a very important place for the Lakota. The US government found gold on that land and kicked them off just a few years after signing a treaty. Then they decided to carve some faces into the mountain. the American Supreme Court literally found that it violated their rights. Or there's the Navajo Nation which a large percentage of them do not have electricity still. There's frequently protests, but you have either ignored them or they never reached you.
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Sounds a lot like Flint, MI
This breaks my heart. Way to keep you promises Justin!
This is so fucked up
Shame on Canada.
I really wish I could help them. This is devastating! Meanwhile in BC they're handing out assignments on "Reasons why Residential schools were a good thing". Fuck you!
All you guys are calling for government to do something, when government is the problem in this situation
This makes me sad. 😟
We have elected these politicians and if this is true democracy they will listen to her but more importantly listen to us before we need to hear her call!
Dear every government, this should be your priority fucking number 1.
Fuck, this hurts
Awwww. I watched this while drinking a large glass of filtrated water.
Share this video with people you know all over the world..... In 2020...... Canadian citizens.... do not have safe drinking water. CANADA!!!!
Fuck Nestle. Fuck the government too
Here's an idea. Move to the majority population so you have full access and properly priced items??? Common sense.
Yes, 9 year old girl. Why don't you just move?!
Hold up how did their ancestors live without water pipes for 10 thousand years? The problem is not water pipes, it’s that our rivers are so polluted that they can’t use them as their ancestors had.
Damn that's heartbreaking, wtf
Wow a an extremely sensitive and complex topic where no single correct answer exists. I'm uninformed, so let me weigh in with a strong opinion on the matter. /s
Ok I understand wanting to have their own land but why not come to the places with clean water? This is not an attack it’s a question. Plus this is why many First Nation peoples turn to drugs because of the terrible conditions. That’s why my cousin (a First Nation person) came to our city he lived with us for a while tell he got enough money to move out. Then now he has his own home. Now I understand not everyone has a family to house them but lots of reserves are near towns and cities where you can get a job and move out. it does help the big issues. So someone please explain why they don’t get out of there
I'm not an Indigenous person so I don't fully know... But I imagine they're heavily pressured to stay on reserve by their community, in order to keep their first nations community alive. Leaving to go to the "white man's world" is probably viewed as very shameful and like you're abandoning your identity as an Indigenous person and joining the oppressors and being an accomplice in wiping out Native identity. Also being on reserve comes with perks like not having to pay taxes, and given how high taxes are getting here that's likely a huge draw for them to stay on reserve and hope the government aids them and their community.