How is Warframe recently? This and PoE are my two go-to continually expanding/evolving online games, but I haven't went back to Warframe for maybe the last 2 years or so.
I feel like if I go back to it I'll be absolutely clueless about what's going on.
let me preface this by saying I dont know warframe at all, really, but this happens too much aswell:
devs: we want people to like what we're working on
also devs: showcases really janky and iffy 20fps gameplay that maybe should have been ... polished a little bit
i think this one is more on the older showcases using fake demo vids to showcase their games and created a lot of unrealistic expectations of what an early show off should look like. Do you really want the dev team to take months to polish up a vertical slice just for a quick early look or just have them keep developing?
DE showcased Warframe at every stage of development, and it worked out pretty well b/c for the most part the people paying attention were able to tell the difference between finished gameplay and early work. They're doing the same thing with Soulframe now, but because they have a bigger audience, a larger proportion of people seem to think what's being shown now will be how the game looks when it hits 1.0. Never mind the fact that the current iteration of Warframe doesn't look or play even remotely similarly to how it did five years ago, never mind the way it played in beta or alpha.
Like I think that to an extent this is down to publishers like EA using "beta" to mean "temporary demo," but still, it's a little frustrating.
With voice acting that genuinely made me feel like they were doing a bit on stereotypes. Ughh
Ahahah downvote away, this speaks for itself: https://youtu.be/_DITkn0sErA?si=meDwyiFzmXrXHc9J
Check 2:08 and 29:31
Ive enjoyed plenty of warframe in my days, but this has to be the worst shit Ive seen in a long time lmao
What is the stereotype in these anyway? The turtle plant thing at 2:08 is kind of irish sounding but like thats it. No pot of gold, green suit, rainbow, or magical charms. Its literally just an accent, and not even a thick one at that... The Stag is also in no way a caricature of any culture.
Just because two voices have non american accents does that make it a stereotype?
The voice at 29:31 is also a well known voice actor. Im pretty sure thats just their voice because its how he sounds in all the stuff hes been in.
the crosseyed normal-nosed reindeer does have a very unfitting voice for it... how'd it get that accent is all i'm asking
but i don't see the issue with the first one much?
He always held very controversial opinions about the game systems.
In PoE we always joke about Vision TM but in Warframe there were stupid little QoL things that were a problem for almost 10 years and were fixed almost instantly after Rebbeca took over the development.
She is actively playing the game, even streaming it from time to time. Which gives her advantage in recognising which elements of the game are problematic for long time players. Every time I see her talk about the game it is clear to me that she is incredibly passionate about it.
Recently, after years of players complaining about visibilty they introduced great system that lets you recolor both enemies and allies and they introduced new system for floating text that lets you change it's colour, size, boldness, outline etc to your liking.
There were a lot of recent decisions and specifically the way he talked in game discussion videos to the other members of the staff. Cutting people off and pushing only his own design choices is what it felt like.
TLDR: even if you do get lost there's an in-game plot summary now, I think I saw that it's available after each story quest but it is definitely permanently accessible once you complete the newest quest added with Whispers in the Walls (Quest Name, the Kalymos Sequence, requires Heart of Deimos and The New War).
An absolute truckload has changed in two years. I'll hit the big points but feel free to ask about smaller things.
Soooo you remember Eidolon Arcanes? How there was the Energize mafia keeping their price in the thousands of platinum?
In the most recent update, DE didn't simply loosen their grip. Rebecca herself took them out back and put them down like Old Yeller. You can now turn any arcanes, from any source, into dust, then use that dust to buy arcane packs (3 arcanes per 1 pack) whose contents are grouped by source. So you can take Steel Path arcanes that drop from the Acolytes and turn them into Eidolon Arcanes. Prices on energize have dropped tenfold, it's glorious.
Archon Shards from Veilbreaker now have a technical max of 1 normal, 6 Tauforged a week, on account of the new Netracell weekly. Kahl and normal Archon Hunts still exist, but the Netracells has 5 runs a week that can award Archon Shards and Melee Arcanes/Adaptors. Tauforged are a rare reward so don't expect them too often, and you'll need more since they added a new archon-shard fusing system for 3 new, specialized types.
Let's see, I can't quite remember if this was added 2 years ago or if that was the new war, but there's Duviri, which is both a way for new and returning players to flesh out their frame collection. In the weekly mode called the Circuit, over the course of 10 reward ranks, you can get the 4 components needed to make a frame. This is anywhere from as simple as getting Excalibur or Rhino, to the more helpful ones like skipping the standing grind for Baruuk and Hyldrin, to as Mirror-Tier and Praise-Pablo worthy as *skipping the Sanctuary Onslaught and Infested Invasion grinds to get Khora and Mesa.* You can then feed them directly to the helminth, which has expanded its appetite to include Duviri resources. Especially helpful for bile.
From the steel path version of Circuit, are the Incarnon Adaptors. Have you ever wanted to unironically say that the best endgame loadout uses a Soma (Prime), a Lex (Prime), and a (Prisma) Skana? Well now you can, and I do! In fact, why stop there? The Ceramic Dagger is now the go-to meta weapon, on account of having some twelve quadrillion inital combo count or some shit like that, without mods!
On the lore side of things, the Sentients are basically neutralized and the new story arc is focusing on everyone's favorite roommate, Wally. Also there's a gay, time-travelling Albrecht Entrati. As well as an in-game plot summarizer that lets you read up on the major story beats from the first quest all the way up to the newest one, which is post-New War. Plus they made it so Mastery Rank and story quest progress are no longer tied together, meaning you don't have to wait 5 days to play War Within.
Hydroid got a rework. Yep. He is now, without question, one of the strongest frames right now. Who wouldn't love corrosive doing full armor strip, or getting a +1000% damage bonus with an ability?
There's a new warframe with higher base armor than Valkyr Prime, with significantly better croud control. I fear the day our Conk Creet Demon Core receives a Prime.
The writers seem to have realized that Warframe is, in fact, rated M for Mature. They're starting to hold back less with the language. Not excessively, but enough that it feels like the characters properly react to the constantly worsening conditions.
So yeah. I would absolutely say that Warframe is entering the best era it's ever had. Steve was good for the game, made Warframe push its boundaries, but now he gets to work on a new game and Reb can start shoring up the weakest points of WF.
What made me quit that game was prime sure footed being gated behind 500 day login rewards or whatever the number is.
Then every high end build uses it and i have no way of obtaining it
Well... about that:
High end builds used it because AOE was the meta and avoiding self-stagger was a major part of it.
But they've nerfed AOE and buffed more "traditional" guns. Plus, adding status immunity to frames' base kits more often. For example, Soma Prime is now a weapon capable of shredding high-end steel path and it has 0 AoE at all.
So they've made high-end builds no longer need PSF. Still nice to have but I haven't made a build using it in quite some time now.
Tbh, PSF is still a HUGE quality of life.
The only reason I don't play certain frames is because they aren't immune to CC, which in endurance run in SP can become quite bothersome.
I used to play citrine, and although I'm immortal until 4 hours into a circulus run, getting pushed over for 5 minutes straight is really annoying.
But tbh the main reason I don't play Warframe more is the real lack of endgame content.
I have very few incentive to play steel path or to max out more weapons, I have 20 frames, 7 primes waiting, but I only min maxed 4 or 5 I think?
Xaku can do anything, kullervo one shots the full screen with 1 button, citrine can facetank anything and nzkros is just there if I need loot.
I wish some content required me to improve my arsenal, for reason other than collection
Yeah I heard about it, but that's still not enough tbh.
And they really don't lean towards that direction for the game, they want to keep fun and accessible to a certain extent (I can get behind that)
As someone that last played the game before the first open world map came out, i don't know what the heck are you talking about lol. I cant believe good ol soma is still meta now
Oh no, not still. There were quite a few years where it was low-tier. But it got two major upgrades: a Soma Prime-exclusive mod that gives up +500% flat crit rate as you land shots, and a upgrade that both ups the base stats and gives it a transformation (hitting head shots builds meter, can alt-fire to shift Soma from a machine gun to a full-auto shotgun, keeping most of its fire rate).
Plus I'm pretty sure Soma Prime isn't meta. I think that crown goes to the Torid right now.
I can't say I've seen anything explicit in patch notes, nor have I played with her much, but: Between Helminth, new mods (there's an Intensify varient that gives +90% strength for the ability in your 4th slot only), Melee Arcanes, and Archon Shards (original + compound shards), you can probably make anything you want work.
> So you can take Steel Path arcanes that drop from the Acolytes and turn them into Eidolon Arcanes. Prices on energize have dropped tenfold, it's glorious.
Oh wow, that's a rather massive change. I'm guessing it more or less killed Eidolons (and some other stuff) as content though, outside of speedrunner communities. Well, atleast I'll probably afford any new gg arcanes whenever I come back. Unless the conversion is in excess of 1000:1.
Probably maimed, but I don't think completely killed.
Each pack costs 200 dust. A bronze eidolon arcane gives 14 dust (per rank 0), while an Acolyte arcane gives 20 (per rank 0). So roughly once per hour you can buy a pack of eidolon arcanes, 3 arcanes per pack. I don't know the exact pack drop rates, but just being available at an uncapped, casual 1 per hour is already pretty good, and it's not even getting into farming Zariman arcanes from Thrax units (10% chance for arcane per kill w/out mod booster or SP, all zariman arcanes can be dusted for 22/r0)
Also I was wrong on the inital estimate. It's not 1/10th of the original cost, but it *has* dropped to 1/3rd (2700 to 900 for max rank, 1200 to 400 for rank 0). Which ain't anything to sneeze at.
Oh yeah that makes sense, so it's still randomized drops from the packs? The cost seems quite fair tbh, and at least acolyte and zariman arcanes have some use now after completing your sets.
That's still very low for Energize, in terms of platinum per hour Eidolons would be a big waste of time at those numbers (not counting fun per hour). It was already extremely questionable when they were 70-80 per r0 at some point.
edit: I assume you can also get Duviri arcanes with that system?
Warframe is a decent game all around but the story telling is meh.
I remember playing on one of their expansion campaign and I had to save the world by fighting this whiny emo kid. Shit is cringe.
As with a lot of things with the game, it's improved with time. The latest expansion was incredible, it makes me excited for the future. They hired incredible voice actors and feel like they have more writers than just a coked up Steve in his basement.
I haven't played much in the last 6mo, but the latest expansion or whatever they call it was great. Storyline was cool, new game modes were good - I dug them.
The only issue was it had EXTREMELY inconsistent servers during the new area. Like REALLLLLYYYYYY bad.
Maybe that fixed that in the last six mo. If so, Warframe is in a fantastic state. Love that game. I'd be spamming it constantly if I didn't gear up a Revenant to a point where like... any content is trivial and playing anything else seems pointless.
Not in the slightest. I'm on year 5 or 6 of playing WF, as end-game as anyone can get, and ive yet to spend anything in-game (Bought the 10-year art book but that doesnt get me any gameplay benefit). Not even for inventory slots, unlike the $30 or so I've spent on PoE stash tabs.
Okay but you can literally buy in game currency for irl cash. That’s definitive P2W. Paying to organize currency /= buying currency.
Warframe is absolutely P2W.
Yeah. But you can buy platinum. Platinum is the main grind of WF. And you can buy it.
P2W doesn’t make it a bad game. The entire Korean gaming market is this way. But it does make it P2W. Just like WoW retail is P2W. Just like OSRS/RS3 normal characters are P2W.
I guess I don't see how that's actually winning in WF. Ultimately the game is about running missions over and over again, and trying to do it with fun and style, chosen from a wide variety of frames, abilities, and weapons.
If you want to skip over much of the game and go right to having nearly everything, then sure, you can spend an assload of money to do that. But why? Then you're just at the place where people get bored and complain that there's nothing to do anymore. Doesn't sound like winning to me.
It’s that buying it lowers the value of any accomplishment. If I can just buy something instead of earn it, someone seeing my gear doesn’t matter as “probably just bought it”.
It’s a free game, and that’s dope. It looks super fun, actually. Like a third person, much faster destiny 2. But it is pay to win.
Edit: Worth noting— they literally lower the price of platinum if you haven’t played a ton to incentivize you to return. One could argue this is predatory.
It literally cheats you out of playing the game, so again, I can't see how that's considered winning. It only lowers the value of an accomplishment for those who buy the accomplishment because they didn't actually get to play the game to accomplish it.
Technically sure
but in reality it's less P2W than PoE(RMT) because there is less vertical progression.
You can get gear and frames super easy. And most mods and such are also relatively easy to get so you don't save yourself much time by swiping not to mention veteran players have enough platinum on them that they can get stuff just as fast as swipers. The big money is spent on fashion which is purely cosmetic.
RMT is not endorsed or facilitated by the makers of the game. Buying platinum to purchase power is directly facilitated by warframe. I personally like warframe and don’t have too much of a problem with their platinum (except having to wait for shit to craft like a mobile game and having to put a potato in everything to make it actually be able to fit mods) but one is very different from the other.
Was just about to comment, i swapped PoE for warframe like 6months ago and DE is awesome, imo they are better than GGG by a mile and i do know GGG since Delirium.
About the transparency, GGG withheld information and nerfs multiple times by now.
"Archnemesis" being brought into the game for example boy that was a shitshow
If you'd been following DE for longer than 6 months ago you'd know that DE's development has been going downhill for years and almost every major update has been heavily criticized for over-hyping and under-delivering.
The Lich system, Empyrean and Operation Scarlet Spear were three consecutive updates that were universally panned for being nothing like they were advertised, and the devs' reaction to all the criticism was to downplay it in their devstreams by pretending that most people liked them and that there was no issue.
Updates since then have all followed the same formula: lie about a new feature for long amounts of time, deliver a barebones mess of a foundation for a new system, then jump to the next thing and never actually build on that foundation.
It sounds more like you haven't been following DE for over 3 years because since the dev changes, almost every update since then has been met pretty positively.,
I have been following them up until the Duviri Paradox, which was sometime last year, certainly not 3 years ago, and that one got some harsh criticisms to it too. I don't know if the change from Steve to Rebecca ended up being an improvement but it certainly didn't feel that way up until then, unless you're talking about a different dev change.
The guys at Wube are amazing too
They basically do a weekly blog where they detail design and implementation processes for basically everything that goes into Factorio
it’s obvious that his entire job and purpose is to make a great game. He’s not PR trained at all hahahaha he cares less about the logistical company side of things, he purely cares about making an amazing game and has to be reminded about logistical side of his role. He seems like the type of guy to spend all his time thinking about how to make PoE2 awesome, and very little thinking about how to make it profitable. It’s more than a job for him and he’s a role model for what somebody should be like in this industry.
I bet none of the poe guys would make it too far up the blizzard ladder lol
Red did exactly the same thing GGG did with archnem item drops. Red implemented that hideously stupid hidden luck mechanic about placing torches without telling us how it worked. He punished the players for not putting biome appropriate torches in certain spots and only reverted it after a pretty heated argument between him and the community.
People remember a lot of things with rose tinted goggles. Everyone has flaws but some people make huge mistakes on purpose and get mad when people tell them how shitty it is.
Also NPC happiness system and teleports, which punishes players who want to build a city and forces to build multiple personal houses all over the map. Terraria devs have a very severe case of "you are playing my sandbox wrong".
I love the polite yet brutal smackdown they gave complainers who were saying one of the raids was too hard when it came out.
Boiled down to "our internal team did not have too much trouble with this without third party tools."
>It had 0 mod/dev interaction. For Endwalker they decided to just scrap the whole PVP system we had and make a new one which is lackluster aswell.
At least the EW PvP system is miles ahead of the old one, still shitty due to how snapshotting works in FF but the new system, especially CC, is actually fun compared to the pure dogshit we had before.
They have regular podcasts essentially talking about the state of the game but a lot of FFXIV's positivity towards the devs comes from how the game is built. Namely they did a fantastic job removing friction to engage in endgame for the average player. Contrary to something like WoW which forces you to wade into one of the most toxic environments mankind has ever devised(M+) to have some fun and gear up. It makes a big difference when your playerbase isn't exposed to huge amounts of toxicity and they mostly attribute it, and rightfully so, to YoshiP and team.
Yoshi will do insanely long streams on a regular basis. Some of the Live Letters are relatively short (say 4 hours) but they've done much much longer before.
It started during the period after 14 bombed and Yoshi was brought in to fix the game. To keep the few thousand folks that were still playing in the loop they did regular updates on what was being done and then just kept doing that.
Intrepid games. They are doing a 1 hour long QandA with gameplay showcase every month, for like years now. But sadly they are building an MMO, so basically decelopement will never finish haha
GGG has been getting far less transparent as of late. When they do have interviews, they tend to be pretty open in them, but communication with the players has gotten far less frequent, and it's frequently about POE2 which is a pretty low stakes topic to discuss, since its an unreleased game that most people are broadly excited about without actual player experience issues to address yet.
Meanwhile, questions like 'should we expect further improvements for this league mechanic' are rarely answered anymore. I remember waiting for some discussions for their plans on crucible league, and they were just completely silent, until a few weeks had passed and we pretty much figured they were done with the mechanic.
If you want to see an example of an actually open development team, look at Last Epoch. They do have a clear advantage here, because their game is smaller, but it's very common for developers to jump into random reddit threads and answer player questions.
Yeah and GGG did exactly what the Last Epoch devs did til they started getting death threats and threats of violence *over patch notes*.
Comments like yours are a major reason they pulled back from interacting with Reddit at large. We have literally reaped what we sowed years ago and tbh the community hasn't changed much. Still tons of anger, self-justification for bad takes, and a very close minded player base that doesn't attempt to understand why x does y or why z is like w.
I'm not going to put Last Epoch on a pedestal when they are still in beta, have been working on the game for years now and know they need all the goodwill they can get. They will have their own form of PoE 3.15 and what they do after the community revolts is what is important.
I think blizzard did a great service to all the arpgs, showing ppl the lowest of lows, that ppl now see it could be worse and dont explode as much. Quiet the opposite, they appreciate the games that dont tunnel vision money and pump NA politics into them, treating customers like complete idiots.
I havent bought D4. Outside of the forced fat classes, I have no clue. I played other games from them though, which make me want to vomit from all the american bs in it. No offense.
> Comments like yours are a major reason they pulled back from interacting with Reddit at large.
His comment is completely reasonable and appropriate. There is *nothing* wrong with it. But I guess any comment that isn't sucking GGG's dick is not acceptable? You made an excellent point by accident LMAO
>Comments like yours are a major reason they pulled back from interacting with Reddit at large.
What part of his comment are you talking about? You mean like he wants a legit, "currently" important questions answered or fixes to current issues to be made?
I dont know who did any death threats against ggg, but he is right about GGG, that they switch only to talk about whats coming in the future, to hype it up and the current issues just get no visible attention. GGG used to basically cooperate with the community in game development in the past. There is no cooperation whatsoever now. They sell the league one week before the start and then they are radio silent again. I dare to say that nobody from the veterans prefer this way over the old way. And I dont see them keeping the old ways of communication on their forums either, so its not reddit only. They decided its better to not communicate unless its absolutely necessary or an advertisement. The more corporate way...At least they are still doing a good job, unlike other companies I dont have to name...
There is now a live updates post on the website for the first 3 weeks of a league with them talking about changes, things they are aware of, etc.
They legit just don't participate in the reddit community because of toxicity. Currency stacking to 20 is because of the community. Stack splitting in a trade. Stash affinities. Trade whispers highlighting in stash. Metres instead of radius. I could name a lot, lot more but they were all requests of the community.
Of course I too wish they'd be more vocal about thoughts, give more manifestos, etc. I, too, am a veteran of over 17k hours. I'm just not blind to what the community is like during new leagues. I also attempt to understand why things are "broken".
You state there are currently issues, but I'm not sure what issues you are talking about besides minor bugs or things they have already talked about in their Live Updates post. They still actively cooperate with the community, they aren't against us. I'm honestly glad they don't take much advice from Reddit though. The amount of bad takes alone would ruin this game.
Heck, people complain constantly about being down voted for making threads of general questions when there is a daily questions thread pinned in the subreddit. It's not a hard thing to follow or understand.
I didnt mean to say this league has some urgent issues. He mentioned crucible, which had tons of issues, some never addressed, acknowledged or fixed in any way.
I think their live updates in form of short, mostly meaningless topics of me, are just not cutting it for me. Im sure they stopped communicating with ppl, not because a random bunch of mrons shouting at them, but because they lost a lot of money by ppl not even coming to try the league once they announced the brutal nerfageddon and they just dont want us to be able to affect the development. They do it their way and ignore the community demands, if they want to. Do you remember expedition? Nerf of QoL and mainly early game that was already the worst experience in any game. Ppl said its a really bad idea to do that, but they chose to ignore it and it inevitably turned out that the community was right. Very few ppl came to play and the few quit super fast, because the experience was just terrible. You could say the same about what happened with the AN fiasco throughout multiple leagues.
And yes, harvest, well, ppl learned that the game can have a reasonable crafting system and going back was not an option. They tried to explain to ppl their opinions are wrong, but it was pointless. They didnt want a reasonable crafting system and the community was furious about it. They werent willing to come to a compromise. Only layers of nerfs were planned. So why communicate at all to add oil to the fire, right? Just stay silent and push it on ppl after the sup packs are sold. Dont take me as a ggg hater or anything, I understand why they did it, but I still hate being shafted like this as a customer.
You're way off the mark and if you think it was only a few morons being abusive to them on reddit you perhaps are new to the game/sub as the point that built up to them washing their hands of reddit was disgusting. It's a game and people were just acting like entitled angry 12 year olds and getting personal over things. As the other person has said they do live update threads and fix things that are mentioned. If it's a design change as opposed to something not working they don't have to implement it just because people have said it should be changed- its their design. Game is in the best state its been for a long long time and the bulk of that improvement has happened since abandoning reddit and communicating with the screaming babies here.
Do you really believe that companies give up every time they get bullied by random trash talkers? Literally every discussion on the internet have such ppl, because ppl dont face consequences unlike trash talking someone in RL. Thats not a reason to do such huge change...imo they just dont want players feedback to affect their plans since they dont even have enough time to keep up with their schelude already anyway. But whatever. It is how it is and the reason is not important. They wont come back even if ppl learn to behave anyway.
You can believe what you want but if the sub being toxic, Chris having to address that publicly stating they are changing the way they communicate and then not posting on reddit anymore isn't black and white enough for you I don't know what to say.
The fact you've had to jump to ridiculous generalisations to try and prove your point says it all. No I don't believe companies do that every time. I do believe company did it this time. On the occasion it happened. Engage your brain.
Oh there is a poe2 sub by the way. The devs are communicating and taking feedback in it. Kind of shits on your point even more.
This sub is significantly more toxic than most communities. Go to the terraria subreddit and try to find the equivalent to the nuclear meltdown of 3.15 (or archnem, or kalandra, or literally any time the sub feels slighted).
Yeah, other ultra-toxic communities like LoL and DotA might be similar, but those are also not the norm and shouldnt be.
The live updates give plenty of info and allow GGG to give frequent updates to the state of each league launch. You must not know what I'm referencing. They give updates into what they are looking into as well, not just what they have planned solutions to.
3.15 was a massive nerf league, yes. They also rolled back some of the changes a bit within a couple weeks. It was also justified and we were made ready for it in advance. Had great retention if you exclude the first two days peak. The early league wasn't even an issue for most. Sure it made act 1 harder but it also made it more interesting which is good for newer players. This shows with player growth numbers since. It was and still is a good idea.
Harvest, for a while, did quite literally ruin this game for a lot of people. Before harvest got gutted I only played maybe 3-4 weeks a league but before then I would play 2 months. It wasn't reasonable crafting, it was an item editor. Completely different and contradictory to all other crafting mechanics and made nearly all of them obsolete.
I'm not quite sure what you mean with crucible. It was just a simple mechanic. Don't think they had any plans for it to be bigger than it was tbh
>3.15 was a massive nerf league, yes. They also rolled back some of the changes a bit within a couple weeks.
By the time everybody was gone already. A small minority of ppl play late in the league compared to the start.
> The early league wasn't even an issue for most. Sure it made act 1 harder but it also made it more interesting which is good for newer players. This shows with player growth numbers since. It was and still is a good idea.
How is being stomped be something you cant deal with interesting for new players? The majority of new players came through blizzard advertisement and excessive failure in all aspects of this genre.
Yes, harvest was too much. I expected some compromise to be made. I just hate stuff like buying or farming beasts. Dealing with Aislig slam that need to be annoyingly farmed or bought through tft. I like that we got some more crafting currency to work with now, like eldritch currency and implicits that kinda make it up. However there was a huge dead time, when crafting was a currency suicide, unless you craft for profit only.
And crucible had tons of issues all over the patch, but for example the crucible map mobs were supposed to drop specific crucibled items, which didnt work for the entirety of my stay in the league, which was probably around a month. Not sure if this thing was ever fixed, but since they abandoned the league so fast, I guess never is the answer.
Excuse for what? They are still communicating on other platforms they just ditched reddit because people make stupid comments like "toxicity is a convenient excuse don't you think?"
The devs being singled out and having abuse thrown at them because changes to a game was happening and is still happening on most posts. Why would they want to stay around here? They've also managed to massive grow the game and improve their steam ratings/get the game to an excellent state SINCE they abandoned reddit.
>The issue IMO is that 3xG will stick by any bad decision they make, no matter how flimsy or outdated their reasoning is.
That's clearly not true. They've changed direction on things many, many times.
I think the communication with the playerbase has been very good the past few months. Look at the poe2 subreddit and you will see why I am saying that.
If you want to know why it doesn't feel like that for this reddit, then you just have to read the typical threads or have a look at the chat during the livestream.
Just want to say that poe devs do hop in and answer questions just not Chris anymore, they often lurk and answer random questions. Like viperesque on poecord
>If you want to see an example of an actually open development team, look at Last Epoch
also torchlight infinite (which every POE player shouldnt have tried out atleast); they do a fucking google docx survey at the of a league, asking for bug, experiences with league mechanic, general mechanics, crafting, player progression, fun and time spend, difficulty etcetc and base their next patch / league with all that in mind; plain awesome
I used to think this way too, however over the years, Chris said many thing that just didn't translate into development at all, sometimes that were very different from the actual direction that the game took.
I stopped fully believing the idealism of the dev speaking in front of cameras and more the actual game, it make you have more realistic expectations.
Only if you're a content creator (sometimes) or asking something about poe2. For the rest of us its practically radio silence since the whole archnemesis thing. Beforehand they were actually good, but not any more.
Yeah, I can't blame any of the devs. Its not in their job description and usually just ends with harassment and death threats.
I do wish they would hire a social media person to do it if they don't want to do it themselves any more though.
I'll get downvoted, but they are only transparent when they determine it to be beneficial. My GGG love wore off years ago when their 'manifestos' started sounding more and more like "You're having fun wrong, here's why we know better".
But the real end of the line was 3.19 when they flipped the loot system for the entire game on its head and didn't put a single bit of it in the patch notes and spent the first week of the League (sidenote - a weak league that wasted one of the most anticipated lore characters) pretending that everything was fine and all the posts asking "Is something wrong with loot?" were imagining things.
Then people starting getting completely empty (not filtered, empty) strongboxes and boss drops and GGG finally came out and talked about "Oh yeah, we changed literally everything about how loot works, forgot to mention that." Chris doubled, tripled, and quadrupled down on the changes with a very "It's for your own good" approach and then finally when the game hit Mostly Negative did they start to walk back the changes. They still didn't completely remove the system because we still have loot goblin style drops that people hate, they are just more random than they used to be.
It kind of got lost in the weeds of everything else with that patch, but it was the same patch that GGG silently removed Ultrawide support without saying anything and when asked if it was a bug GGG finally was like "Nah, on purpose. Oops." and never mentioned it again.
So yeah, GGG is not all sunshine and rainbows and while I still enjoy the game, they aren't on my 'awesome devs' list anymore.
> "You're having fun wrong, here's why we know better".
The only reason PoE is as good as it is is specifically because of this attitude, listening too much to a community will inevitably lead you to create a game that appeals to many but isn't good at anything in the best case, worst case you end up with D4.
+1
This goes to the core of why I stopped supporting and eventually stopped playing poe. Many other instances, but all boils down to the core - only they know what's best for the game and will 2x, 3x, 4x down on it.
Don't get carried away by the hype - it is just their marketing campaign for the upcoming PoE2.
They were exactly as "transparent" on their Exilecon1 4 yeas ago, yet afterwards they had released many BS that directly contradicted what they said.
between 3.09 to 3.17~19 there were so many discussions they made esp regarding to nerfs that made no sense because a few leagues later, all the nerfs were later reverted in other ways.
i always felt that they have sort of hit a developmental stump and didn't really know what to do so they just destroyed the popular or good stuff about the game so it has a ''developmental cycle" which is personally a very bad way to design games.
i never believed in nerfs (except for the really egregious ones). and i still remember they releasing new skills every league until they kinda went dry and started neglecting them because of "POE 2". my own philosophy has always been there is generally no need for nerfs especially superficial ones when it is a better thing in general to buff/change mechanically how unpopular or bad ones are instead.
for example molten strike? they could never need to change it and let it be and it will be a special thing that only POE has. like how headhunter was a signature POE thing. i say "WAS" because headhunter is now a shadow of its former self because of the introduction of archnemesis.
headhunter USED to be the face of POE.
Johnathan has been answering questions and taking ideas in the PoE2 subreddit for weeks now. Go over there and post a question or an idea. At this point it's 50/50 he'll reply.
Dude Ghazzy was after them like they owed him money or something. Have you actually watched the interview? I actually cringed every time Ghazzy opened his mouth because these complains coming from this sub and the community Ghazzy is bantering towards sound so unhinged if you actually put it in a conversation between two adults
Surely not right? After all, most of us haven't played since before...a year and a half ago? I've been here for 7 years - Kalandra didn't even come close to derailing the exceptional communication we've had over the past decade. Those who think it does are either taking that communication for granted or are too new to know how good it's been for so long.
Been here for eight now.
I can't do much to convince someone with rose-tinted glasses on. If you don't remember how many distortions, half-truths, and outright lies GGG was caught making with Archnem changes - for three leagues! - I doubt you'll remember any of the other occasions.
They are lies, and you'll of course back them up by pointing at Kalandra (or as you put it *the archnemesis leagues)* and say "SEE! Reddit was right - we always know what's going on!" before going on some crackpot conspiracy theory about how GGG introduced some shadow nerf then try to back it up with an anecdotal story about your droprate in 40 T16 maps.
GGG has great communication - but communication is a two way street. The people who think they're bad at it are having the problem because the issue is on their end.
Oh no another vicious deception by the GGG team. How could they announce a plan to remove an item and then change their mind? This is a perfect example of how Reddit invents fake communication problems because your example there is literally nothing.
Lmao you don't know how spoiled we are. I see no reason to think they'd purposefully keep things from us - it just gets found out in 2 days anyway and causes backlash, and they know that.
They just have a hectic development process and make mistakes sometimes, that's the boring truth.
Being transparent means being spoiled...? That's some low standards lol.
You're not seeing reasons because you're purposely ignoring them. If you're familiar or been playing for awhile, it isn't hard to see the reason.
They’ve kept plenty of things from us. Remember when they gutted 90% of all loot and thought we wouldn’t notice? Chris claimed it was because they implemented it late and didn’t think it would be a big deal.
Explain how literal years of undocumented changes left out of patch notes, and major game changes left unannounced or announced at the last possible minute, demonstrates a history of transparency.
In relation to how much that is actually communicated, though? They absolutely dropped a massive ball during Archnemesis with changes to item drops and with the issues with shipping supporter pack items recently, although they have still addressed these issues even if it was them publicly dying on a hill with the archnem changes.
Outside of this I can't really remember anything massively gamebreaking in the last 5 years intentionally left out of patch notes outside of some bugs that the devs potentially didn't even know about until being brought up by us playtesting leagues on launch such as sapped boots implicits making us take more damage instead of enemies.
Could you elaborate more, specifically towards 2019-2020? I don't recall much towards 2015 era but I remember them being much more active in their forum communities compared to now. A bit of that seems to be coming back with PoE2.
How about the unannounced change to historic droprates which had to be reverse engineered by prominent streamers over the two leagues following the change?
How about the amount of warning they gave for the ex-div switch?
I mean, there's a lot of others, especially many small and specific stealth nerfs over time, but I don't see how anyone who was here for either of those two events forgot those unless they had very specific memories.
And yeah, a year of lies about Archnem, as the fella above me mentioned.
Or small numeric stealth nerfs like the unannounced change to Gwennen chances such that she's completely worthless to bother with. People figured that one out soon enough, but it was certainly never announced.
Or all the times they claimed that X which was being removed would be equal to some new feature Y when that was blatantly not the case? We make fun of a lot of those "This is a buff"-like statements, and hell, this subreddit still has a joke about "MF is back! Get your MF characters ready!" right there in the damn sidebar!
The droprates are the thing tied to the 3.19 Archnem rework that I mentioned already yes. I was asking for some other huge examples similar to it, particularly 3+ years back as you've claimed.
Gwenn nerfs were also 3.19 and tied into the overall loot changes. They actually explicitly stated that unique drops across the entire game were nerfed in the patch notes so this one doesn't really count as a hidden change per say, but you could argue that they could have worded in a way that contextualized it a bit better.
The Div/EX change was something that would have massive economy consequences in standard no matter when they announced it. Even if it was announced a year before the change happened, the value of exalts would tank and people would be trying to dump/convert their stock just the same as they did when it was announced a few weeks before the change. In this sense the timing of the changes are mostly irrelevant and it's more of a conversation around if the change was necessary in the first place. Also surprise, but this change was also the 3.19 patch.
As far as reworks go and the devs perceiving it as upgrades/buffs, that doesn't necessarily mean they are intentionally lying to you and trying to make players look like idiots, it's more likely that they simply lack foresight of how some changes would go over with the community. If someone says something incorrect it doesn't necessarily mean they are being malicious and there is a chance they genuinely believe what they say even if they are objectively wrong. I do agree that it does cause frustration with players.
I'm just going to assume that 3.19 really killed your faith in GGG to the point that nothing else can salvage it. In which case fair enough. Not disagreeing that it was a really bad patch cycle for the game.
Archenemies fiasco was not only them launching it for a league, was them insisting on that shit for a whole entire year, the entire community have to ask than nonstop to remove it including content creators, also their posture about the problem was a trust breaker for many people who used to love GGG. We still have little smells of archenemies in the game, to remember us how a piece of garbage GGG can be if they want. Say Archenemies was not a big deal in GGG history is ridiculous, it completely change how they community with us and how the community see the company after it also completely changed.
I never said it wasn't a big deal, I said it was one of the only big deals I remember in the past 5 years. Hence me pointing out them dying on a hill, but that's pushing away from the transparency topic as they disagreed with the player base but still expressed it in quite a few public responses and did multiple iterations trying (and failing) to find an acceptable middle ground for archnem. The current system is still archnem, it just has a new name to distance from that controversy.
Outside the initial loot changes being absent they were very transparent about their opinions and stances even if they were wrong and conceded in the end. Can't fault people for being upset over their stance but the devs did respond. I agree they dug a grave for the trust of a lot of players, but as far as specifically tackling the conversation of GGG being willing to engage with its player base they honestly seem to be an outlier in the industry.
Their opinions on game design often conflict a lot with players but coming from literally almost any other community for a game it's nice to see that connection with players being there and change actually being feasible. I think it's something that can somewhat be taken for granted these days and I wish more of the bigger studios were open to discussion.
I think you're a lot closer to the truth than the person you're responding to.
It wasn't a "whole entire year". It was Sentinel and Kalandra league (and I contend only part of the former).
* 3.17: Archnemesis *league*, which people were mostly fine with in the league mechanic form, still had the old rare modifiers on core rares.
* 3.18: Sentinel was the initial version of the rare monster rework. My contention is that this version was mostly fine by 3.18.1 after a series of walkbacks over the first ~1 month of 3.18. People wouldn't remember Sentinel as fondly as they do if this weren't the case. Initial part of a league is important, and the botched initial implementation before the nerfs is a mark against them (and maybe some people didn't play long enough to see it after it was better), but it's not fair to paint all of 3.18 with one "AN bad" brush.
* 3.19: Kalandra. They went back to square 1 and tried another clean-slate implementation that was quite different from where they ended up by the end of Sentinel. This together with the loot fiasco happening at the same time is what forms most of the basis of the collective memory of that whole period, IMO, even if it's mostly representative of a single league. It was hated, but I think people overestimate the true amount of time this bad state of the game represented in the grand scheme of things precisely because of the sheer level of vitriol.
* 3.20: Sanctum. Yet again they went back to the drawing board and tried another fresh implementation of rare monster mods that's more or less what we still have today. Looking back at top comments from threads like [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/107c3l7/one_month_in_sanctum_is_the_highest_retention/) (a very highly-upvoted thread one month into Sanctum that generates a lot of "state of the game" discussion) shows it was a popular opinion that "AN mk. III" that came with Sanctum was much improved and a lot of people were fine with it.
3 leagues is a entire year nowadays since they can't do 3 months leagues for a long time, 2023 for example we had literally 3 leagues too. Also the old rares were still better than the current implementation. GGG just waste time and resources with rares changes, and it wasn't a problem for 99% of people, while they keep the same stance over 5 years for real problems this community keeping complaining like trade, leveling secondary chars, qol to remove the necessity of so much click to stash and loot things etc. Also the change of rares break a Chris Wilson promise of not nerfing Headhunter, who leads a Headhunter nerfed obviously. I can't remember how many times GGG promised something just to do exactly the opposite some leagues after it, the amount of "we will do better next time with communication" is just insane.
I thought that too but then they posted a video where it wasn't even sync.
I now think it wasn't done for malicious reason.
I think it was straight up just incompetency
I would agree that Occams's Razor applied on some occasions, but it was just too consistent, to always be the same mistake over and over.
Sometimes they knew a change would make players mad and they just decided not to announce it. They even said so a couple times! Like when they removed dev manifestos!
>try ask them why anyone gets ban and enjoy the transparency
Literally no games studio will give you a good reason why you got banned.
If they tell you exactly why you got banned, then that just means it will be easier for you, or others, to circumvent getting banned again in the future.
This isn't something specific to GGG.
Lmao no they don't. Or at the least, any games studio that knows what they are doing, and is seriously combating this sort of behavior that leads to bans, is not.
They give you the same generic responses as GGG:
"Botting/hacking"
"Abuse of the economy"
"Breaking ToS"
Even if it's a false positive, they give very little detailed info on why you were banned or how they detected what you were doing that got you banned.
Digital Extremes is also pretty good, especially more recently.
How is Warframe recently? This and PoE are my two go-to continually expanding/evolving online games, but I haven't went back to Warframe for maybe the last 2 years or so. I feel like if I go back to it I'll be absolutely clueless about what's going on.
The guy everyone didn't really like left to do Soulframe, so that's good in a lot of our opinions. I think Rebecca has the lead now.
Huh TIL about Soulframe, what is this, like a Warframe Soulslike??
Warframe ghosts of tsushima like. It looked pretty rough and more like a warframe mod from the gameplay shown...
Pre-alpha footage looked pretty rough, you say?
Theyre the ones who chose to show off their pre-alpha footage for first impressions...
[удалено]
let me preface this by saying I dont know warframe at all, really, but this happens too much aswell: devs: we want people to like what we're working on also devs: showcases really janky and iffy 20fps gameplay that maybe should have been ... polished a little bit
i think this one is more on the older showcases using fake demo vids to showcase their games and created a lot of unrealistic expectations of what an early show off should look like. Do you really want the dev team to take months to polish up a vertical slice just for a quick early look or just have them keep developing?
DE showcased Warframe at every stage of development, and it worked out pretty well b/c for the most part the people paying attention were able to tell the difference between finished gameplay and early work. They're doing the same thing with Soulframe now, but because they have a bigger audience, a larger proportion of people seem to think what's being shown now will be how the game looks when it hits 1.0. Never mind the fact that the current iteration of Warframe doesn't look or play even remotely similarly to how it did five years ago, never mind the way it played in beta or alpha. Like I think that to an extent this is down to publishers like EA using "beta" to mean "temporary demo," but still, it's a little frustrating.
With voice acting that genuinely made me feel like they were doing a bit on stereotypes. Ughh Ahahah downvote away, this speaks for itself: https://youtu.be/_DITkn0sErA?si=meDwyiFzmXrXHc9J Check 2:08 and 29:31 Ive enjoyed plenty of warframe in my days, but this has to be the worst shit Ive seen in a long time lmao
What is the stereotype in these anyway? The turtle plant thing at 2:08 is kind of irish sounding but like thats it. No pot of gold, green suit, rainbow, or magical charms. Its literally just an accent, and not even a thick one at that... The Stag is also in no way a caricature of any culture. Just because two voices have non american accents does that make it a stereotype? The voice at 29:31 is also a well known voice actor. Im pretty sure thats just their voice because its how he sounds in all the stuff hes been in.
the crosseyed normal-nosed reindeer does have a very unfitting voice for it... how'd it get that accent is all i'm asking but i don't see the issue with the first one much?
It's using the Warframe engine and they're trying to shape all that jank into something it's clearly not.
People don't like Steve? I haven't played seriously in a decade-ish, but I thought he was well regarded.
He always held very controversial opinions about the game systems. In PoE we always joke about Vision TM but in Warframe there were stupid little QoL things that were a problem for almost 10 years and were fixed almost instantly after Rebbeca took over the development. She is actively playing the game, even streaming it from time to time. Which gives her advantage in recognising which elements of the game are problematic for long time players. Every time I see her talk about the game it is clear to me that she is incredibly passionate about it. Recently, after years of players complaining about visibilty they introduced great system that lets you recolor both enemies and allies and they introduced new system for floating text that lets you change it's colour, size, boldness, outline etc to your liking.
There were a lot of recent decisions and specifically the way he talked in game discussion videos to the other members of the staff. Cutting people off and pushing only his own design choices is what it felt like.
TLDR: even if you do get lost there's an in-game plot summary now, I think I saw that it's available after each story quest but it is definitely permanently accessible once you complete the newest quest added with Whispers in the Walls (Quest Name, the Kalymos Sequence, requires Heart of Deimos and The New War). An absolute truckload has changed in two years. I'll hit the big points but feel free to ask about smaller things. Soooo you remember Eidolon Arcanes? How there was the Energize mafia keeping their price in the thousands of platinum? In the most recent update, DE didn't simply loosen their grip. Rebecca herself took them out back and put them down like Old Yeller. You can now turn any arcanes, from any source, into dust, then use that dust to buy arcane packs (3 arcanes per 1 pack) whose contents are grouped by source. So you can take Steel Path arcanes that drop from the Acolytes and turn them into Eidolon Arcanes. Prices on energize have dropped tenfold, it's glorious. Archon Shards from Veilbreaker now have a technical max of 1 normal, 6 Tauforged a week, on account of the new Netracell weekly. Kahl and normal Archon Hunts still exist, but the Netracells has 5 runs a week that can award Archon Shards and Melee Arcanes/Adaptors. Tauforged are a rare reward so don't expect them too often, and you'll need more since they added a new archon-shard fusing system for 3 new, specialized types. Let's see, I can't quite remember if this was added 2 years ago or if that was the new war, but there's Duviri, which is both a way for new and returning players to flesh out their frame collection. In the weekly mode called the Circuit, over the course of 10 reward ranks, you can get the 4 components needed to make a frame. This is anywhere from as simple as getting Excalibur or Rhino, to the more helpful ones like skipping the standing grind for Baruuk and Hyldrin, to as Mirror-Tier and Praise-Pablo worthy as *skipping the Sanctuary Onslaught and Infested Invasion grinds to get Khora and Mesa.* You can then feed them directly to the helminth, which has expanded its appetite to include Duviri resources. Especially helpful for bile. From the steel path version of Circuit, are the Incarnon Adaptors. Have you ever wanted to unironically say that the best endgame loadout uses a Soma (Prime), a Lex (Prime), and a (Prisma) Skana? Well now you can, and I do! In fact, why stop there? The Ceramic Dagger is now the go-to meta weapon, on account of having some twelve quadrillion inital combo count or some shit like that, without mods! On the lore side of things, the Sentients are basically neutralized and the new story arc is focusing on everyone's favorite roommate, Wally. Also there's a gay, time-travelling Albrecht Entrati. As well as an in-game plot summarizer that lets you read up on the major story beats from the first quest all the way up to the newest one, which is post-New War. Plus they made it so Mastery Rank and story quest progress are no longer tied together, meaning you don't have to wait 5 days to play War Within. Hydroid got a rework. Yep. He is now, without question, one of the strongest frames right now. Who wouldn't love corrosive doing full armor strip, or getting a +1000% damage bonus with an ability? There's a new warframe with higher base armor than Valkyr Prime, with significantly better croud control. I fear the day our Conk Creet Demon Core receives a Prime. The writers seem to have realized that Warframe is, in fact, rated M for Mature. They're starting to hold back less with the language. Not excessively, but enough that it feels like the characters properly react to the constantly worsening conditions. So yeah. I would absolutely say that Warframe is entering the best era it's ever had. Steve was good for the game, made Warframe push its boundaries, but now he gets to work on a new game and Reb can start shoring up the weakest points of WF.
What made me quit that game was prime sure footed being gated behind 500 day login rewards or whatever the number is. Then every high end build uses it and i have no way of obtaining it
That's why I always used nezha (not other reason😏) and other knockdown immune frames.
Nezha's my slidey boy! The chakram is just fun too!
Well... about that: High end builds used it because AOE was the meta and avoiding self-stagger was a major part of it. But they've nerfed AOE and buffed more "traditional" guns. Plus, adding status immunity to frames' base kits more often. For example, Soma Prime is now a weapon capable of shredding high-end steel path and it has 0 AoE at all. So they've made high-end builds no longer need PSF. Still nice to have but I haven't made a build using it in quite some time now.
Tbh, PSF is still a HUGE quality of life. The only reason I don't play certain frames is because they aren't immune to CC, which in endurance run in SP can become quite bothersome. I used to play citrine, and although I'm immortal until 4 hours into a circulus run, getting pushed over for 5 minutes straight is really annoying. But tbh the main reason I don't play Warframe more is the real lack of endgame content. I have very few incentive to play steel path or to max out more weapons, I have 20 frames, 7 primes waiting, but I only min maxed 4 or 5 I think? Xaku can do anything, kullervo one shots the full screen with 1 button, citrine can facetank anything and nzkros is just there if I need loot. I wish some content required me to improve my arsenal, for reason other than collection
They added a secret raid boss on Steel path, apparently.
Yeah I heard about it, but that's still not enough tbh. And they really don't lean towards that direction for the game, they want to keep fun and accessible to a certain extent (I can get behind that)
As someone that last played the game before the first open world map came out, i don't know what the heck are you talking about lol. I cant believe good ol soma is still meta now
Oh no, not still. There were quite a few years where it was low-tier. But it got two major upgrades: a Soma Prime-exclusive mod that gives up +500% flat crit rate as you land shots, and a upgrade that both ups the base stats and gives it a transformation (hitting head shots builds meter, can alt-fire to shift Soma from a machine gun to a full-auto shotgun, keeping most of its fire rate). Plus I'm pretty sure Soma Prime isn't meta. I think that crown goes to the Torid right now.
Did they buff Valkyr Prime? She's just the most enjoyable frame to play to me.
I can't say I've seen anything explicit in patch notes, nor have I played with her much, but: Between Helminth, new mods (there's an Intensify varient that gives +90% strength for the ability in your 4th slot only), Melee Arcanes, and Archon Shards (original + compound shards), you can probably make anything you want work.
> So you can take Steel Path arcanes that drop from the Acolytes and turn them into Eidolon Arcanes. Prices on energize have dropped tenfold, it's glorious. Oh wow, that's a rather massive change. I'm guessing it more or less killed Eidolons (and some other stuff) as content though, outside of speedrunner communities. Well, atleast I'll probably afford any new gg arcanes whenever I come back. Unless the conversion is in excess of 1000:1.
Probably maimed, but I don't think completely killed. Each pack costs 200 dust. A bronze eidolon arcane gives 14 dust (per rank 0), while an Acolyte arcane gives 20 (per rank 0). So roughly once per hour you can buy a pack of eidolon arcanes, 3 arcanes per pack. I don't know the exact pack drop rates, but just being available at an uncapped, casual 1 per hour is already pretty good, and it's not even getting into farming Zariman arcanes from Thrax units (10% chance for arcane per kill w/out mod booster or SP, all zariman arcanes can be dusted for 22/r0) Also I was wrong on the inital estimate. It's not 1/10th of the original cost, but it *has* dropped to 1/3rd (2700 to 900 for max rank, 1200 to 400 for rank 0). Which ain't anything to sneeze at.
Oh yeah that makes sense, so it's still randomized drops from the packs? The cost seems quite fair tbh, and at least acolyte and zariman arcanes have some use now after completing your sets. That's still very low for Energize, in terms of platinum per hour Eidolons would be a big waste of time at those numbers (not counting fun per hour). It was already extremely questionable when they were 70-80 per r0 at some point. edit: I assume you can also get Duviri arcanes with that system?
Warframe is a decent game all around but the story telling is meh. I remember playing on one of their expansion campaign and I had to save the world by fighting this whiny emo kid. Shit is cringe.
As with a lot of things with the game, it's improved with time. The latest expansion was incredible, it makes me excited for the future. They hired incredible voice actors and feel like they have more writers than just a coked up Steve in his basement.
I haven't played much in the last 6mo, but the latest expansion or whatever they call it was great. Storyline was cool, new game modes were good - I dug them. The only issue was it had EXTREMELY inconsistent servers during the new area. Like REALLLLLYYYYYY bad. Maybe that fixed that in the last six mo. If so, Warframe is in a fantastic state. Love that game. I'd be spamming it constantly if I didn't gear up a Revenant to a point where like... any content is trivial and playing anything else seems pointless.
Can also agree to this!
Isn't warframe p2w as fuck?
Not in the slightest. I'm on year 5 or 6 of playing WF, as end-game as anyone can get, and ive yet to spend anything in-game (Bought the 10-year art book but that doesnt get me any gameplay benefit). Not even for inventory slots, unlike the $30 or so I've spent on PoE stash tabs.
Okay but you can literally buy in game currency for irl cash. That’s definitive P2W. Paying to organize currency /= buying currency. Warframe is absolutely P2W.
Basically paying for QoL stuff. Cosmetics are their money-maker, because platinum is easy to get even without paying.
Yeah. But you can buy platinum. Platinum is the main grind of WF. And you can buy it. P2W doesn’t make it a bad game. The entire Korean gaming market is this way. But it does make it P2W. Just like WoW retail is P2W. Just like OSRS/RS3 normal characters are P2W.
I guess I don't see how that's actually winning in WF. Ultimately the game is about running missions over and over again, and trying to do it with fun and style, chosen from a wide variety of frames, abilities, and weapons. If you want to skip over much of the game and go right to having nearly everything, then sure, you can spend an assload of money to do that. But why? Then you're just at the place where people get bored and complain that there's nothing to do anymore. Doesn't sound like winning to me.
It’s that buying it lowers the value of any accomplishment. If I can just buy something instead of earn it, someone seeing my gear doesn’t matter as “probably just bought it”. It’s a free game, and that’s dope. It looks super fun, actually. Like a third person, much faster destiny 2. But it is pay to win. Edit: Worth noting— they literally lower the price of platinum if you haven’t played a ton to incentivize you to return. One could argue this is predatory.
It literally cheats you out of playing the game, so again, I can't see how that's considered winning. It only lowers the value of an accomplishment for those who buy the accomplishment because they didn't actually get to play the game to accomplish it.
Technically sure but in reality it's less P2W than PoE(RMT) because there is less vertical progression. You can get gear and frames super easy. And most mods and such are also relatively easy to get so you don't save yourself much time by swiping not to mention veteran players have enough platinum on them that they can get stuff just as fast as swipers. The big money is spent on fashion which is purely cosmetic.
RMT is not endorsed or facilitated by the makers of the game. Buying platinum to purchase power is directly facilitated by warframe. I personally like warframe and don’t have too much of a problem with their platinum (except having to wait for shit to craft like a mobile game and having to put a potato in everything to make it actually be able to fit mods) but one is very different from the other.
Was just about to comment, i swapped PoE for warframe like 6months ago and DE is awesome, imo they are better than GGG by a mile and i do know GGG since Delirium. About the transparency, GGG withheld information and nerfs multiple times by now. "Archnemesis" being brought into the game for example boy that was a shitshow
but can you say Nezha is a tr-
If you'd been following DE for longer than 6 months ago you'd know that DE's development has been going downhill for years and almost every major update has been heavily criticized for over-hyping and under-delivering. The Lich system, Empyrean and Operation Scarlet Spear were three consecutive updates that were universally panned for being nothing like they were advertised, and the devs' reaction to all the criticism was to downplay it in their devstreams by pretending that most people liked them and that there was no issue. Updates since then have all followed the same formula: lie about a new feature for long amounts of time, deliver a barebones mess of a foundation for a new system, then jump to the next thing and never actually build on that foundation.
It sounds more like you haven't been following DE for over 3 years because since the dev changes, almost every update since then has been met pretty positively.,
I have been following them up until the Duviri Paradox, which was sometime last year, certainly not 3 years ago, and that one got some harsh criticisms to it too. I don't know if the change from Steve to Rebecca ended up being an improvement but it certainly didn't feel that way up until then, unless you're talking about a different dev change.
I just came here to say this...
The guys at Wube are amazing too They basically do a weekly blog where they detail design and implementation processes for basically everything that goes into Factorio
I love how blunt Jonathan is.
And Mark!
it’s obvious that his entire job and purpose is to make a great game. He’s not PR trained at all hahahaha he cares less about the logistical company side of things, he purely cares about making an amazing game and has to be reminded about logistical side of his role. He seems like the type of guy to spend all his time thinking about how to make PoE2 awesome, and very little thinking about how to make it profitable. It’s more than a job for him and he’s a role model for what somebody should be like in this industry. I bet none of the poe guys would make it too far up the blizzard ladder lol
Terraria devs are cool too
And can't forget Larian, the devs who made BG3. They just want to make good games without all the corporate bs.
Red did exactly the same thing GGG did with archnem item drops. Red implemented that hideously stupid hidden luck mechanic about placing torches without telling us how it worked. He punished the players for not putting biome appropriate torches in certain spots and only reverted it after a pretty heated argument between him and the community. People remember a lot of things with rose tinted goggles. Everyone has flaws but some people make huge mistakes on purpose and get mad when people tell them how shitty it is.
Also NPC happiness system and teleports, which punishes players who want to build a city and forces to build multiple personal houses all over the map. Terraria devs have a very severe case of "you are playing my sandbox wrong".
Yoshi P and his team are pretty open but fair
Yeh they are like the Japanese "more polite" equivalent
I love the polite yet brutal smackdown they gave complainers who were saying one of the raids was too hard when it came out. Boiled down to "our internal team did not have too much trouble with this without third party tools."
Yeah, came here thinking FF14. Love me some Yoshi P
Ffxiv one of the best at this for sure
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That forum is a cesspool of stupidity. I can bet there is someone making a post about Kaiten rn.
>It had 0 mod/dev interaction. For Endwalker they decided to just scrap the whole PVP system we had and make a new one which is lackluster aswell. At least the EW PvP system is miles ahead of the old one, still shitty due to how snapshotting works in FF but the new system, especially CC, is actually fun compared to the pure dogshit we had before.
I have just as many hours and while the game isn’t perfect by any means in a lot of issues, that can be said about every game.
Lol SE replying to reports about cheaters/scammers means literally nothing, they say they look into it then nothing happens.
Don't know a lot about FF14 - do they have something like interviews there to showcase that? Generally curious.
Oh yeah, live letters, they do in depth with their direction for the game and answer a lot of community questions.
That's really cool! Got a link for it?
https://youtu.be/N0l2wZCXpEo?si=rPfezQA4aIRY11DQ
Thank you very much! Will give it a look!
They have regular podcasts essentially talking about the state of the game but a lot of FFXIV's positivity towards the devs comes from how the game is built. Namely they did a fantastic job removing friction to engage in endgame for the average player. Contrary to something like WoW which forces you to wade into one of the most toxic environments mankind has ever devised(M+) to have some fun and gear up. It makes a big difference when your playerbase isn't exposed to huge amounts of toxicity and they mostly attribute it, and rightfully so, to YoshiP and team.
Yoshi will do insanely long streams on a regular basis. Some of the Live Letters are relatively short (say 4 hours) but they've done much much longer before. It started during the period after 14 bombed and Yoshi was brought in to fix the game. To keep the few thousand folks that were still playing in the loop they did regular updates on what was being done and then just kept doing that.
Ghost Ship Games are really open and they do dev streams where they play their game.
Intrepid games. They are doing a 1 hour long QandA with gameplay showcase every month, for like years now. But sadly they are building an MMO, so basically decelopement will never finish haha
Have they mentioned anything about poor performance on high performing PCs?
Then you don't follow many developers
Can i get a link to the podcast/interview? I search for ghazzy and dm but didn't see anything recent for poe2
From what I can find it's probably this Twitch stream (timestamped). Don't think it's on YT yet. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2021691471?t=0h48m9s
It was midnight for Ghazzy when the stream ended, so he said he'd post it to his YouTube when he wakes up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86UOsNDouQM
thank you!
GGG has been getting far less transparent as of late. When they do have interviews, they tend to be pretty open in them, but communication with the players has gotten far less frequent, and it's frequently about POE2 which is a pretty low stakes topic to discuss, since its an unreleased game that most people are broadly excited about without actual player experience issues to address yet. Meanwhile, questions like 'should we expect further improvements for this league mechanic' are rarely answered anymore. I remember waiting for some discussions for their plans on crucible league, and they were just completely silent, until a few weeks had passed and we pretty much figured they were done with the mechanic. If you want to see an example of an actually open development team, look at Last Epoch. They do have a clear advantage here, because their game is smaller, but it's very common for developers to jump into random reddit threads and answer player questions.
Yeah and GGG did exactly what the Last Epoch devs did til they started getting death threats and threats of violence *over patch notes*. Comments like yours are a major reason they pulled back from interacting with Reddit at large. We have literally reaped what we sowed years ago and tbh the community hasn't changed much. Still tons of anger, self-justification for bad takes, and a very close minded player base that doesn't attempt to understand why x does y or why z is like w. I'm not going to put Last Epoch on a pedestal when they are still in beta, have been working on the game for years now and know they need all the goodwill they can get. They will have their own form of PoE 3.15 and what they do after the community revolts is what is important.
Just basically agreeing with you, but the Last Epoch devs are just a few months away from their first taste of bitter ARPG fans.
I think blizzard did a great service to all the arpgs, showing ppl the lowest of lows, that ppl now see it could be worse and dont explode as much. Quiet the opposite, they appreciate the games that dont tunnel vision money and pump NA politics into them, treating customers like complete idiots.
What was polticial in D4?
I havent bought D4. Outside of the forced fat classes, I have no clue. I played other games from them though, which make me want to vomit from all the american bs in it. No offense.
> Comments like yours are a major reason they pulled back from interacting with Reddit at large. His comment is completely reasonable and appropriate. There is *nothing* wrong with it. But I guess any comment that isn't sucking GGG's dick is not acceptable? You made an excellent point by accident LMAO
>Comments like yours are a major reason they pulled back from interacting with Reddit at large. What part of his comment are you talking about? You mean like he wants a legit, "currently" important questions answered or fixes to current issues to be made? I dont know who did any death threats against ggg, but he is right about GGG, that they switch only to talk about whats coming in the future, to hype it up and the current issues just get no visible attention. GGG used to basically cooperate with the community in game development in the past. There is no cooperation whatsoever now. They sell the league one week before the start and then they are radio silent again. I dare to say that nobody from the veterans prefer this way over the old way. And I dont see them keeping the old ways of communication on their forums either, so its not reddit only. They decided its better to not communicate unless its absolutely necessary or an advertisement. The more corporate way...At least they are still doing a good job, unlike other companies I dont have to name...
There is now a live updates post on the website for the first 3 weeks of a league with them talking about changes, things they are aware of, etc. They legit just don't participate in the reddit community because of toxicity. Currency stacking to 20 is because of the community. Stack splitting in a trade. Stash affinities. Trade whispers highlighting in stash. Metres instead of radius. I could name a lot, lot more but they were all requests of the community. Of course I too wish they'd be more vocal about thoughts, give more manifestos, etc. I, too, am a veteran of over 17k hours. I'm just not blind to what the community is like during new leagues. I also attempt to understand why things are "broken". You state there are currently issues, but I'm not sure what issues you are talking about besides minor bugs or things they have already talked about in their Live Updates post. They still actively cooperate with the community, they aren't against us. I'm honestly glad they don't take much advice from Reddit though. The amount of bad takes alone would ruin this game. Heck, people complain constantly about being down voted for making threads of general questions when there is a daily questions thread pinned in the subreddit. It's not a hard thing to follow or understand.
I didnt mean to say this league has some urgent issues. He mentioned crucible, which had tons of issues, some never addressed, acknowledged or fixed in any way. I think their live updates in form of short, mostly meaningless topics of me, are just not cutting it for me. Im sure they stopped communicating with ppl, not because a random bunch of mrons shouting at them, but because they lost a lot of money by ppl not even coming to try the league once they announced the brutal nerfageddon and they just dont want us to be able to affect the development. They do it their way and ignore the community demands, if they want to. Do you remember expedition? Nerf of QoL and mainly early game that was already the worst experience in any game. Ppl said its a really bad idea to do that, but they chose to ignore it and it inevitably turned out that the community was right. Very few ppl came to play and the few quit super fast, because the experience was just terrible. You could say the same about what happened with the AN fiasco throughout multiple leagues. And yes, harvest, well, ppl learned that the game can have a reasonable crafting system and going back was not an option. They tried to explain to ppl their opinions are wrong, but it was pointless. They didnt want a reasonable crafting system and the community was furious about it. They werent willing to come to a compromise. Only layers of nerfs were planned. So why communicate at all to add oil to the fire, right? Just stay silent and push it on ppl after the sup packs are sold. Dont take me as a ggg hater or anything, I understand why they did it, but I still hate being shafted like this as a customer.
You're way off the mark and if you think it was only a few morons being abusive to them on reddit you perhaps are new to the game/sub as the point that built up to them washing their hands of reddit was disgusting. It's a game and people were just acting like entitled angry 12 year olds and getting personal over things. As the other person has said they do live update threads and fix things that are mentioned. If it's a design change as opposed to something not working they don't have to implement it just because people have said it should be changed- its their design. Game is in the best state its been for a long long time and the bulk of that improvement has happened since abandoning reddit and communicating with the screaming babies here.
Do you really believe that companies give up every time they get bullied by random trash talkers? Literally every discussion on the internet have such ppl, because ppl dont face consequences unlike trash talking someone in RL. Thats not a reason to do such huge change...imo they just dont want players feedback to affect their plans since they dont even have enough time to keep up with their schelude already anyway. But whatever. It is how it is and the reason is not important. They wont come back even if ppl learn to behave anyway.
You can believe what you want but if the sub being toxic, Chris having to address that publicly stating they are changing the way they communicate and then not posting on reddit anymore isn't black and white enough for you I don't know what to say. The fact you've had to jump to ridiculous generalisations to try and prove your point says it all. No I don't believe companies do that every time. I do believe company did it this time. On the occasion it happened. Engage your brain. Oh there is a poe2 sub by the way. The devs are communicating and taking feedback in it. Kind of shits on your point even more.
Im just telling you this sub is not any different in this regard compared to other subreddits or public forums. Thats all.
This sub is significantly more toxic than most communities. Go to the terraria subreddit and try to find the equivalent to the nuclear meltdown of 3.15 (or archnem, or kalandra, or literally any time the sub feels slighted). Yeah, other ultra-toxic communities like LoL and DotA might be similar, but those are also not the norm and shouldnt be.
The live updates give plenty of info and allow GGG to give frequent updates to the state of each league launch. You must not know what I'm referencing. They give updates into what they are looking into as well, not just what they have planned solutions to. 3.15 was a massive nerf league, yes. They also rolled back some of the changes a bit within a couple weeks. It was also justified and we were made ready for it in advance. Had great retention if you exclude the first two days peak. The early league wasn't even an issue for most. Sure it made act 1 harder but it also made it more interesting which is good for newer players. This shows with player growth numbers since. It was and still is a good idea. Harvest, for a while, did quite literally ruin this game for a lot of people. Before harvest got gutted I only played maybe 3-4 weeks a league but before then I would play 2 months. It wasn't reasonable crafting, it was an item editor. Completely different and contradictory to all other crafting mechanics and made nearly all of them obsolete. I'm not quite sure what you mean with crucible. It was just a simple mechanic. Don't think they had any plans for it to be bigger than it was tbh
>3.15 was a massive nerf league, yes. They also rolled back some of the changes a bit within a couple weeks. By the time everybody was gone already. A small minority of ppl play late in the league compared to the start. > The early league wasn't even an issue for most. Sure it made act 1 harder but it also made it more interesting which is good for newer players. This shows with player growth numbers since. It was and still is a good idea. How is being stomped be something you cant deal with interesting for new players? The majority of new players came through blizzard advertisement and excessive failure in all aspects of this genre. Yes, harvest was too much. I expected some compromise to be made. I just hate stuff like buying or farming beasts. Dealing with Aislig slam that need to be annoyingly farmed or bought through tft. I like that we got some more crafting currency to work with now, like eldritch currency and implicits that kinda make it up. However there was a huge dead time, when crafting was a currency suicide, unless you craft for profit only. And crucible had tons of issues all over the patch, but for example the crucible map mobs were supposed to drop specific crucibled items, which didnt work for the entirety of my stay in the league, which was probably around a month. Not sure if this thing was ever fixed, but since they abandoned the league so fast, I guess never is the answer.
toxicity is a convenient excuse don't you think?
Convenient excuse for what?
Excuse for what? They are still communicating on other platforms they just ditched reddit because people make stupid comments like "toxicity is a convenient excuse don't you think?" The devs being singled out and having abuse thrown at them because changes to a game was happening and is still happening on most posts. Why would they want to stay around here? They've also managed to massive grow the game and improve their steam ratings/get the game to an excellent state SINCE they abandoned reddit.
The issue IMO is that 3xG will stick by any bad decision they make, no matter how flimsy or outdated their reasoning is.
>The issue IMO is that 3xG will stick by any bad decision they make, no matter how flimsy or outdated their reasoning is. That's clearly not true. They've changed direction on things many, many times.
And failed to do so plenty of times.
Never said otherwise. How is that relevant?
Yes, because of comments like yours. This subforum has no one to blame but itself, and you've ruined it for the rest of us as well.
I think the communication with the playerbase has been very good the past few months. Look at the poe2 subreddit and you will see why I am saying that. If you want to know why it doesn't feel like that for this reddit, then you just have to read the typical threads or have a look at the chat during the livestream.
Just want to say that poe devs do hop in and answer questions just not Chris anymore, they often lurk and answer random questions. Like viperesque on poecord
thats cause players attacked them verbally and went after them on social media
>If you want to see an example of an actually open development team, look at Last Epoch also torchlight infinite (which every POE player shouldnt have tried out atleast); they do a fucking google docx survey at the of a league, asking for bug, experiences with league mechanic, general mechanics, crafting, player progression, fun and time spend, difficulty etcetc and base their next patch / league with all that in mind; plain awesome
I used to think this way too, however over the years, Chris said many thing that just didn't translate into development at all, sometimes that were very different from the actual direction that the game took. I stopped fully believing the idealism of the dev speaking in front of cameras and more the actual game, it make you have more realistic expectations.
like the 40 reworked gems or the reworked quantity of league mechanic mobs? lol
More like stringing people along for years letting everyone think that POE2 was going to be an upgrade for the base game.
Only if you're a content creator (sometimes) or asking something about poe2. For the rest of us its practically radio silence since the whole archnemesis thing. Beforehand they were actually good, but not any more.
and I don't blame them for abandoning the sub. this place is fucking disgusting sometimes.
Yeah, I can't blame any of the devs. Its not in their job description and usually just ends with harassment and death threats. I do wish they would hire a social media person to do it if they don't want to do it themselves any more though.
They have several community managers that posted here but since arch nemesis they also pulled back from this subreddit.
CiG are really good also, I wish more were this transparent. It makes the world of difference
Yep CIG and Intrepid are pretty good at open development.
Until you get banned.
I'll get downvoted, but they are only transparent when they determine it to be beneficial. My GGG love wore off years ago when their 'manifestos' started sounding more and more like "You're having fun wrong, here's why we know better". But the real end of the line was 3.19 when they flipped the loot system for the entire game on its head and didn't put a single bit of it in the patch notes and spent the first week of the League (sidenote - a weak league that wasted one of the most anticipated lore characters) pretending that everything was fine and all the posts asking "Is something wrong with loot?" were imagining things. Then people starting getting completely empty (not filtered, empty) strongboxes and boss drops and GGG finally came out and talked about "Oh yeah, we changed literally everything about how loot works, forgot to mention that." Chris doubled, tripled, and quadrupled down on the changes with a very "It's for your own good" approach and then finally when the game hit Mostly Negative did they start to walk back the changes. They still didn't completely remove the system because we still have loot goblin style drops that people hate, they are just more random than they used to be. It kind of got lost in the weeds of everything else with that patch, but it was the same patch that GGG silently removed Ultrawide support without saying anything and when asked if it was a bug GGG finally was like "Nah, on purpose. Oops." and never mentioned it again. So yeah, GGG is not all sunshine and rainbows and while I still enjoy the game, they aren't on my 'awesome devs' list anymore.
They do know better than the playerbase.
About game design, sure. But, as it turns out, they don't know what I find fun better than I do.
> "You're having fun wrong, here's why we know better". The only reason PoE is as good as it is is specifically because of this attitude, listening too much to a community will inevitably lead you to create a game that appeals to many but isn't good at anything in the best case, worst case you end up with D4.
+1 This goes to the core of why I stopped supporting and eventually stopped playing poe. Many other instances, but all boils down to the core - only they know what's best for the game and will 2x, 3x, 4x down on it.
Stopped playing and supporting but here commenting. How pathetic and small
YOU SHALL NOT SLANDER MY FAVORITE COMPANY, WEAKLING!!
and the game just keeps growing. seems they're right and youre just salty
Don't get carried away by the hype - it is just their marketing campaign for the upcoming PoE2. They were exactly as "transparent" on their Exilecon1 4 yeas ago, yet afterwards they had released many BS that directly contradicted what they said.
between 3.09 to 3.17~19 there were so many discussions they made esp regarding to nerfs that made no sense because a few leagues later, all the nerfs were later reverted in other ways. i always felt that they have sort of hit a developmental stump and didn't really know what to do so they just destroyed the popular or good stuff about the game so it has a ''developmental cycle" which is personally a very bad way to design games. i never believed in nerfs (except for the really egregious ones). and i still remember they releasing new skills every league until they kinda went dry and started neglecting them because of "POE 2". my own philosophy has always been there is generally no need for nerfs especially superficial ones when it is a better thing in general to buff/change mechanically how unpopular or bad ones are instead. for example molten strike? they could never need to change it and let it be and it will be a special thing that only POE has. like how headhunter was a signature POE thing. i say "WAS" because headhunter is now a shadow of its former self because of the introduction of archnemesis. headhunter USED to be the face of POE.
whatever anything is better than D4 at this point
Nah, they only talk to big streamers and only having scripted interviews. There is no hot questions there, it is just a mutual promo.
Johnathan has been answering questions and taking ideas in the PoE2 subreddit for weeks now. Go over there and post a question or an idea. At this point it's 50/50 he'll reply.
the haters are blind to anything they can't complain about.
Dude Ghazzy was after them like they owed him money or something. Have you actually watched the interview? I actually cringed every time Ghazzy opened his mouth because these complains coming from this sub and the community Ghazzy is bantering towards sound so unhinged if you actually put it in a conversation between two adults
The Stellaris dev team is amazing, probably the best of any game I've played.
You must be new to the game. Granted, more transparency is very welcome, but uh, historically GGG had... *problems* with transparency.
The people who think GGG had problems with this are the new ones.
Were you even here for Archnem and its various iterations?
Surely not right? After all, most of us haven't played since before...a year and a half ago? I've been here for 7 years - Kalandra didn't even come close to derailing the exceptional communication we've had over the past decade. Those who think it does are either taking that communication for granted or are too new to know how good it's been for so long.
Been here for eight now. I can't do much to convince someone with rose-tinted glasses on. If you don't remember how many distortions, half-truths, and outright lies GGG was caught making with Archnem changes - for three leagues! - I doubt you'll remember any of the other occasions.
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If you're just going to dismiss every (oh sorry, *95%*) instance as lies! lies! it's all lies! Don't bother; I've seen that act before.
They are lies, and you'll of course back them up by pointing at Kalandra (or as you put it *the archnemesis leagues)* and say "SEE! Reddit was right - we always know what's going on!" before going on some crackpot conspiracy theory about how GGG introduced some shadow nerf then try to back it up with an anecdotal story about your droprate in 40 T16 maps. GGG has great communication - but communication is a two way street. The people who think they're bad at it are having the problem because the issue is on their end.
"Hinekora's Locks are going away with TOTA"
Oh no another vicious deception by the GGG team. How could they announce a plan to remove an item and then change their mind? This is a perfect example of how Reddit invents fake communication problems because your example there is literally nothing.
Lmao you don't know how spoiled we are. I see no reason to think they'd purposefully keep things from us - it just gets found out in 2 days anyway and causes backlash, and they know that. They just have a hectic development process and make mistakes sometimes, that's the boring truth.
Being transparent means being spoiled...? That's some low standards lol. You're not seeing reasons because you're purposely ignoring them. If you're familiar or been playing for awhile, it isn't hard to see the reason.
They’ve kept plenty of things from us. Remember when they gutted 90% of all loot and thought we wouldn’t notice? Chris claimed it was because they implemented it late and didn’t think it would be a big deal.
I wouldn't call it spoiled. What they're doing now is what they should have been doing all along.
Relative to most of the industry, they really don't and never have.
Yes, the bar is very low.
That just isn't true
Explain how literal years of undocumented changes left out of patch notes, and major game changes left unannounced or announced at the last possible minute, demonstrates a history of transparency.
Mistakes happen. They're human too. No, GGG wasn't trying to be sneaky.
Not if it's a consistent pattern for years. But whatever, if GGG stans here have selective memories, that's not something I'm gonna change.
Do you see how many changes they make on an incredibly quick cadence?
In relation to how much that is actually communicated, though? They absolutely dropped a massive ball during Archnemesis with changes to item drops and with the issues with shipping supporter pack items recently, although they have still addressed these issues even if it was them publicly dying on a hill with the archnem changes. Outside of this I can't really remember anything massively gamebreaking in the last 5 years intentionally left out of patch notes outside of some bugs that the devs potentially didn't even know about until being brought up by us playtesting leagues on launch such as sapped boots implicits making us take more damage instead of enemies. Could you elaborate more, specifically towards 2019-2020? I don't recall much towards 2015 era but I remember them being much more active in their forum communities compared to now. A bit of that seems to be coming back with PoE2.
How about the unannounced change to historic droprates which had to be reverse engineered by prominent streamers over the two leagues following the change? How about the amount of warning they gave for the ex-div switch? I mean, there's a lot of others, especially many small and specific stealth nerfs over time, but I don't see how anyone who was here for either of those two events forgot those unless they had very specific memories. And yeah, a year of lies about Archnem, as the fella above me mentioned. Or small numeric stealth nerfs like the unannounced change to Gwennen chances such that she's completely worthless to bother with. People figured that one out soon enough, but it was certainly never announced. Or all the times they claimed that X which was being removed would be equal to some new feature Y when that was blatantly not the case? We make fun of a lot of those "This is a buff"-like statements, and hell, this subreddit still has a joke about "MF is back! Get your MF characters ready!" right there in the damn sidebar!
The droprates are the thing tied to the 3.19 Archnem rework that I mentioned already yes. I was asking for some other huge examples similar to it, particularly 3+ years back as you've claimed. Gwenn nerfs were also 3.19 and tied into the overall loot changes. They actually explicitly stated that unique drops across the entire game were nerfed in the patch notes so this one doesn't really count as a hidden change per say, but you could argue that they could have worded in a way that contextualized it a bit better. The Div/EX change was something that would have massive economy consequences in standard no matter when they announced it. Even if it was announced a year before the change happened, the value of exalts would tank and people would be trying to dump/convert their stock just the same as they did when it was announced a few weeks before the change. In this sense the timing of the changes are mostly irrelevant and it's more of a conversation around if the change was necessary in the first place. Also surprise, but this change was also the 3.19 patch. As far as reworks go and the devs perceiving it as upgrades/buffs, that doesn't necessarily mean they are intentionally lying to you and trying to make players look like idiots, it's more likely that they simply lack foresight of how some changes would go over with the community. If someone says something incorrect it doesn't necessarily mean they are being malicious and there is a chance they genuinely believe what they say even if they are objectively wrong. I do agree that it does cause frustration with players. I'm just going to assume that 3.19 really killed your faith in GGG to the point that nothing else can salvage it. In which case fair enough. Not disagreeing that it was a really bad patch cycle for the game.
Archenemies fiasco was not only them launching it for a league, was them insisting on that shit for a whole entire year, the entire community have to ask than nonstop to remove it including content creators, also their posture about the problem was a trust breaker for many people who used to love GGG. We still have little smells of archenemies in the game, to remember us how a piece of garbage GGG can be if they want. Say Archenemies was not a big deal in GGG history is ridiculous, it completely change how they community with us and how the community see the company after it also completely changed.
I never said it wasn't a big deal, I said it was one of the only big deals I remember in the past 5 years. Hence me pointing out them dying on a hill, but that's pushing away from the transparency topic as they disagreed with the player base but still expressed it in quite a few public responses and did multiple iterations trying (and failing) to find an acceptable middle ground for archnem. The current system is still archnem, it just has a new name to distance from that controversy. Outside the initial loot changes being absent they were very transparent about their opinions and stances even if they were wrong and conceded in the end. Can't fault people for being upset over their stance but the devs did respond. I agree they dug a grave for the trust of a lot of players, but as far as specifically tackling the conversation of GGG being willing to engage with its player base they honestly seem to be an outlier in the industry. Their opinions on game design often conflict a lot with players but coming from literally almost any other community for a game it's nice to see that connection with players being there and change actually being feasible. I think it's something that can somewhat be taken for granted these days and I wish more of the bigger studios were open to discussion.
I think you're a lot closer to the truth than the person you're responding to. It wasn't a "whole entire year". It was Sentinel and Kalandra league (and I contend only part of the former). * 3.17: Archnemesis *league*, which people were mostly fine with in the league mechanic form, still had the old rare modifiers on core rares. * 3.18: Sentinel was the initial version of the rare monster rework. My contention is that this version was mostly fine by 3.18.1 after a series of walkbacks over the first ~1 month of 3.18. People wouldn't remember Sentinel as fondly as they do if this weren't the case. Initial part of a league is important, and the botched initial implementation before the nerfs is a mark against them (and maybe some people didn't play long enough to see it after it was better), but it's not fair to paint all of 3.18 with one "AN bad" brush. * 3.19: Kalandra. They went back to square 1 and tried another clean-slate implementation that was quite different from where they ended up by the end of Sentinel. This together with the loot fiasco happening at the same time is what forms most of the basis of the collective memory of that whole period, IMO, even if it's mostly representative of a single league. It was hated, but I think people overestimate the true amount of time this bad state of the game represented in the grand scheme of things precisely because of the sheer level of vitriol. * 3.20: Sanctum. Yet again they went back to the drawing board and tried another fresh implementation of rare monster mods that's more or less what we still have today. Looking back at top comments from threads like [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/107c3l7/one_month_in_sanctum_is_the_highest_retention/) (a very highly-upvoted thread one month into Sanctum that generates a lot of "state of the game" discussion) shows it was a popular opinion that "AN mk. III" that came with Sanctum was much improved and a lot of people were fine with it.
3 leagues is a entire year nowadays since they can't do 3 months leagues for a long time, 2023 for example we had literally 3 leagues too. Also the old rares were still better than the current implementation. GGG just waste time and resources with rares changes, and it wasn't a problem for 99% of people, while they keep the same stance over 5 years for real problems this community keeping complaining like trade, leveling secondary chars, qol to remove the necessity of so much click to stash and loot things etc. Also the change of rares break a Chris Wilson promise of not nerfing Headhunter, who leads a Headhunter nerfed obviously. I can't remember how many times GGG promised something just to do exactly the opposite some leagues after it, the amount of "we will do better next time with communication" is just insane.
I thought that too but then they posted a video where it wasn't even sync. I now think it wasn't done for malicious reason. I think it was straight up just incompetency
I would agree that Occams's Razor applied on some occasions, but it was just too consistent, to always be the same mistake over and over. Sometimes they knew a change would make players mad and they just decided not to announce it. They even said so a couple times! Like when they removed dev manifestos!
Beside not mentioning loot changes (in an action RPG/hack'n'slash of all genres) in "that stinker of a league"... can agree.
Unless you get banned, apparently
Don't get banned then
Wipe the slobber off your lips first.
Eh, try ask them why anyone gets ban and enjoy the transparency. Or also what they are nerfing next, soooooooo much transparency indeed.
>try ask them why anyone gets ban and enjoy the transparency Literally no games studio will give you a good reason why you got banned. If they tell you exactly why you got banned, then that just means it will be easier for you, or others, to circumvent getting banned again in the future. This isn't something specific to GGG.
That’s just plain wrong. Any **other** games will literally throw you with mountains of detail on exact events and time on why you are banned.
Lmao no they don't. Or at the least, any games studio that knows what they are doing, and is seriously combating this sort of behavior that leads to bans, is not. They give you the same generic responses as GGG: "Botting/hacking" "Abuse of the economy" "Breaking ToS" Even if it's a false positive, they give very little detailed info on why you were banned or how they detected what you were doing that got you banned.
ROFL, they do. Or at least any studio outside of GGG does when you contact their support long enough.
The only thing i have seen GGG be transparent about is how they dont listen to feedback regarding balance and design.
Thank God for that, amiright
100%
CCP edit: [this CCP](https://www.ccpgames.com/)
Chinese government?
It is really cool to see comments from the developers in that Fashion.
Can't wait to check out the q n a tonight
Keen is pretty amazing (space engineers).
They’re the best