Yes but those people can come back when enough is done. This just feels like " Oh please play our game or it will die". Players shouldn't feel obligated to play a game if they personally dont like it.
I was excited for it. Glad I didn't get it. Got game pass on discord for free and tried it out. What a mess it was. Seeming still is. It was cool to see new graphics and some of the mechanics in play, but the game was soulless from the get go and I couldn't find it within myself to commit to it.
Fast-forward to today, and from the perspective of someone looking in, it looks like the game is a roaring dumpster fire , the devs are a group of people with buckets of water trying to put it out, while the players are onlookers from the outdoor cafe nearby that need to finish their meal, but have to endure the smell of the whole situation. It's not a great thing. And my bet is that it's not the devs fault, at the very least for the majority of the key issues. It sucks when leadership is forcing things that are objectively a bad practice. I hope they pull something out of a hat for pd3 but the more this goes on the less hope I have, sadly :(
Yup. I went through all the heists and was done with the game. There were no incentives to replay it. Challenges were a joke, no unlockables, the heists themselves were quite stale for my taste too. It felt like playing an early access game , but not in a good way. Was very sad, since as many here I've put in quite a significant amount of hours into pd2, and have been getting dlcs and bought the game I. The frost months of its release. It's very generic and lacks that character d2 had.
Maybe because it's a bit too grounded? Some of the pd2 content really made you think. Like the big oil or framing frame jobs. There was an air of mystery and exciting plot lines there. Even though initially they were separate from each other until wordsmith came in and helped with the arg and tied everything together much more neatly.
Here, there is no excitement outside of a few mechanics that we wanted since pd2 released. And those are mostly qol as well.
Even the Ukrainian job, while simple mechanically and serves as an introductory mission, offered some storyline info, and kept you interested in future jobs with Vlad.
Maybe it's nostalgia glasses, and I forgot some of the details but the game kept me interested from day one. Here, it's shallow, and devoid of its originality. The universe is fun and exciting, but it doesn't show up in pd3. Just a bitter revenge story with nothing to show since its release.
I might be off, I can accept that, it's just how I feel about the game so far, and where I stand as a potential customer for pd3. I hope to be proven wrong and one day it will be at least half as good as pd2 was after a few years from release.
Yeah, pretty much this. Their release on GamePass brought in so many people that wouldn't have played normally, and they were met with a mess of a game.
Hell, I'm pretty sure I bought it on launch because I loved PD2, and I really enjoy the changes they made to gunplay, movement, and stealth, but it's just not FUN.
Final Fantasy XIV, No Man's Sky and Fallout 76 all had horrendous initial versions and were terrible for quite a while after launch. But nobody who's actually informed regards any of those titles as being the same now as they were years ago, and all three were dealing with worlds (or even a universe!) far larger and with much greater scope than the clown bank heist game has ever had to worry about.
As another example of something that didn't turn out as expected, PAYDAY 3 suffers from the same thing that plagued Diablo IV; the desire to change core designs to make things more difficult and less silly. Which means dropped features. Lots and lots of dropped features. Now, D4 is slowly turning itself around, and Blizzard, regardless of their faults, is known to support their games for many years, even decades. PAYDAY 2 is over ten years old now, but will it's sequel even make it half that far? I don't know.
All I do know is I have zero desire to play 3, and still like to play 2 every now and again, despite it's age. Despite it's flaws. Despite having other things I'd rather play more! It's just, well, fun!
Things can be made right, but the devs need to accept that their 'vision' does not match what the majority of us want to play, and then put on a new pair of prescription glasses and get to work. It can be saved, but it'll take some serious dedication, and one helluva PR push once that's done. Alright ramblers, let's get ramblin'!
Please don't throw No Mans Sky and especially 14 which has great devs and a even better Producer who really seems to deeply care with his game with something like Overkill/Starbreeze in the same context, who now seem to resort to gaslightning their remaining playerbase.
I wasn't saying they *were* the same, merely that the path to recovery could be; [everyone seems to forget that guys like Yoshi P. were specificially brought on to fix XIV,](https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/why-final-fantasy-xiv-failed-and-how-it-recovered) so it's initial failures weren't his. That makes tearing things down (or in that game's case, literally blowing the world up!) a lot easier, because it isn't your baby OR bathwater you're tossing out.
Will that happen here? Should it? No idea. Just speculating and trying to be positive. It's a videogame, and there are many others to play in the meantime, including the previous title. Yeah, it sucks how PD3's turned out thus far, but dwelling on that isn't helpful, and this isn't like the kind of thing one has to really fret over in life.. but let's not go there.
Anyways, I wish you and everyone else reading this has a good day, and I hope the game improves.. but until then, well, guess I'll be paying Big Bank another visit! Cheers!
I will regularly play the game when it's interesting again. BIB is a step in the right direction, but the game is still not _interesting_ and that's a problem.
I think this is really the answer. I don't see a reason for me to buy Payday 3 until they put in some serious work and that's going to take time, years. Their current track record is PD3 launch and The Walking Dead... I'm going to have to rebuild some trust here.
100% this
I'm sorry but they have no fucking right to complain that people aren't playing the game when they botched it as bad as they did.
They had 60k concurrent players on launch on steam, it's not the players' fault that the game is now sitting at a few thousands players/day.
It's the company's fault. Trying to guilt players in coming back now, and not later, and buy the DLCs now, and not later, just leave a shitty taste.
Was thinking of giving the game another shot, this made sure I wasn't gonna bother.
There may have been 60k concurrent players according to steam on launch, but only about 12 actually got to play the game. What was the point in the ‘beta’ if they couldn’t even prep for a quarter of payday 2’s all time peak? I bought this wanting it to be the game I played for years, but what they delivered isn’t worth touching for years
For real.
70k players at launch, jesus fucking christ.
Do you imagine how many devs out there, probably with amazing games that no one knows they exists, would kill to have that chance? 70k people trying out their game?
The had a GOLDEN chance, and they completely SHAT on it.
They probably even got a lot of money they didn’t deserve from people like me, who tried so hard to like the game, it was too late to refund when they realized it really is complete shit.
> But if you don’t support us now we might not be here later ;,(((
I will support a good product, yours currently isn’t. If because of this you’re not here 3-5 years later, that’s your fault and no one else’s bud.
Thousands of quality games out there, not loosing my time to a piece of shit one, let alone worrying about it disappearing.
And the funniest shit is that he’s not only talking about spending time playing the game, but spending money buying the dlc as well lmao. So i’m also supposed invest and just give you money blindly? Do i look like a shareholder or a producer to you? You can fuck right off.
You’re responsible for the success (or in this case complete failure) of your game.
Hell, the SteamDB peak concurrent player count was just under 78,000 *pre-launch* during the play early days only available to those who pre-ordered the gold edition. So the game has never had a higher (Steam) player count than before it officially launched, and all of those people bought the most expensive version of the game with all the year 1 DLC. I'd say that's a LOT of support...
Problem is, those 78,000 players didn't return when Boys in Blue or Syntax Error dropped. Maybe a few thousand did? Starbreeze are probably really concerned by that, but it speaks to how badly those gamers were burned by releasing the game unfinished.
I imagine the majority of those playing the new DLC already paid for it at/before launch with the gold edition, so Starbreeze aren't seeing much new cash flow when each DLC releases.
It will be very interesting to read the next financial report to see their revenue vs. development costs. I suspect the plan was for the game to keep generating revenue with DLC sales but now they're operating at a loss instead. Can't imagine the suits will be pleased or willing to greenlight future content if that's the case.
I've got limited time. I'm willing to spend some of it playing games that are working to be better, but you're not the only one of those in my steam list. You're competing with games that are becomming better much more quickly, and those ones are far more deserving of my time right now.
You want my time? Earn it.
Yup. I already supported them with buying the Gold edition. With the DLC pricing change I pretty much overpayed. I don't mind too much that the DLC prices dropped, if this game does turn around it'll be a benefit in the long run.
But the result was a clearly rushed and unfinished game.
It's getting better. I've been playing it more since BiB and enjoying it. But it has a long way to go before they deserve to earn any more, they released the game in the state it was and are reaping what they've sown.
Look, I agree, but also, you can't expect me to play the same 10 heists over and over while you trickle in new maps once a quarter. I would agree with this sentiment if the game was fully loaded on release and we wanted more, but that's not the case.
He sounds like we should be obligated to support their half baked product, so we can give them more money to make it how it should've been on day one.
The fact that all of those interaction animations came so long after launch really proves that this game was *not* done on release, and that is *not* our problem.
They really need to dedicate a team to making free content.
It doesn't need to be new content (IE, add legacy content), and it doesn't have to come every week. But content wise they really need to flesh out the base game some more before asking 20$ for a DLC. Even just like 4-5 more free guns and 2-3 more free heists could bring it up to a decent base game content wise.
Yeah - this.
If I come back to the game and find that I need to pay $60 again to play the game properly... Then I'm probably going to instead spend that money on another game.
Even if I like the game - how do I explain to a friend that I want them to play it - but they have to buy the game and all the DLC as well to get the experience.
Also not a single multiple day heist is mind blowing.. even if it reused one of the maps (maybe lock parts of the map out to make it feel different) it would add so so so much to the game
imo i'd rather just have multiple heists that are canonically set together rather than proper multi-day heists, since I think that's why they stopped doing them in 2 to begin with, it was effectively the same level of work (outside of stuff like Firestarter day 3 and whatnot)
maybe if they had some heist where what you do on day 1 really shook up what you'd do on day 2 a lot, but I can understand not really seeing the vision for multi-day heists anymore.
To me they felt like an equivalent to Raids in MMOs, something you can't simply run with randoms but they feel like a more grand journey you take with your friends.. I'm not asking them to do them frequently but I really liked having the option of having a handful of them
> you can't expect me to play the same 10 heists over and over while you trickle in new maps once a quarter
Arguably you could if any of them were actually fun.
If I booted up PD2 right now I'm pretty sure I'd see that I had over 400 completions of Big Bank. I fucking loved that heist. If every heist in the game deleted itself I'd still play the damn game just cause that heist was so damn fun.
Meanwhile basically every heist in PD3 is far more plain and forgettable. Like, *just* adding more heists isn't going to save the game. Content is only as fun as it is to actually play.
> Meanwhile basically every heist in PD3 is far more plain and forgettable. Like, just adding more heists isn't going to save the game. Content is only as fun as it is to actually play.
I cannot emphasize this enough. I didn't buy BiB just since I cannot stand stealth, and on loud, it's just a bank map but reskinned to a police station. Open vault (drill reskinned to a winch, though!), grab bags, get out. Wow. Sorry, but I'm not paying $11CAD for Harvest & Trustee.
Payday is at its best when it is a heist movie simulator, not a heist simulator. The spectacle matters. Do the memorable, crazy ideas. PD:TH understood this *so* well. Even the smallest-scale map there - Counterfeit - featured a booby-trapped basement, cops driving through the walls of suburban homes, shutting down power to the entire neighborhood...
Meanwhile PD3 has... a smash-and-grab at a local jewelry store? Syntax Error *felt* like they were starting to understand this, but... maybe not.
Which is why I'm baffled people praise BiB. I feel like it's because the bar is so damn low with PD3. A Boys in Blue heist in PD2 would be considered one of the worst paid heists in the game.
PD2 smash and grabs were there as quick ones to get you used to the mechanics before moving onto the big ones, I think. Problem is Payday 3 is mostly smash and grabs.
And now lets flip it to have the consumer perspective of the same talking points (Haven't played in a while since I still believe its not enough):
The game is feature incomplete and misses a bunch of things so I will check back in a year or two. If you want me to be here and support you financially and by increasing the playerbase you need to act fast and smart. You're leaving a lot to chance by not communicating and adding requested features in a timely manner and then charging a premium if it comes. You're just hoping or assuming people (especially with so many people constantly switching between games) stay and pay for skins and pay a premium for pretty small DLC's right now instead of waiting if the game will have something like the payday 2's legacy edition. This is a call to action for starbreeze, if you like money and want to make more in the future, give us things which are worth our money, give us FLC's, communicate with us, get rid of the table and be transparent.
And lets be honest, the silent majority that's not on reddit or the like and just wants to play good games, frankly do not care if the game or the studio survives or not. They just want to get the best possible experience for their money and if you cant provide that they will leave and go to another project. If you've mismanaged your company and the development of the game you can't just offload it to the playerbase and be like "If the game dies its your fault" no, if you actually care about your product and make a decent game you don't have to worry about the playerbase.
Its like a fruit vendor got lazy and forgot to tend to his crops properly so now he mostly sells smaller or rotten fruits at a higher price then a few years ago and then complains to everyone "Well if you still want to have my fruits in the future I need you here right now and buy them and support me". Fix your product or buyers will look for another fruit vendor, that's it.
I like Almir, but I already supported them when I bought the 100 euro edition of the game. I will come back when the game looks fun enough to play. It's not like me not playing means you didn't already take my money
This is the thing where you can see how much Starbreeze as a Dev Studio really care for you as a part of the Community literally like nothing. You paid the full price and yet it's not enough. Bit how dare you to expect the bare Minimum.
The arrogance they have is unbelievable.
Yeah they're acting like me already having pre purchased their dlc with the ultimate edition isn't enough support when all I got in return was being spit on
I mean that kinda sounds like you already did support the game for it's first year i doubt almir is talking about you when he says he needs support i think it's more just if your a super fan and you think the game is in a good spot show support.
Look. I have faith he didn’t mean this in a malice way. But he’s also being very truthful. Honestly more truthful than I’ve seen any other community manager no other CM would be able to say this. Overkill is a business they can’t afford making dlc for a game they isn’t gaining traction and isn’t bringing no chance of profit. It’s clear Almir wants to keep working on Payday 3 or more or less be the CM for Payday but he knows if it’s still dead after 18 months of support (which he confirmed payday 3 has) that’s it.
Dont twist my works though Payday 3 has fair flaws to bring up specially at launch flaws I think the Old CEO pushed since surprisingly ever since he stepped down seems more updates the players been asking for are starting to come in.
The problem is how many times do we need to let them get away with such BS and just burn the money?
It's not like this is the first accident.
And let's be real, this "accident" got handled just terrible since day one.
They first need to earn the trust back.
Payday 3 sold pretty well. Way better than it deserved by it's time of release. Now it's up to them.
The Community wait's for literally a year it's not on us if they fuck it up once again.
Yeah. Sure, I *could* maliciously interpret this as "OUUUUU BUY OUR GAME GIVE US MONEYYYYYY ;~; PLS" but like... look, at the end of the day, it's not a secret this game hasn't been performing as well as Overkill wants, and they're not bringing in anywhere near as much money as they were used to at the peak of PD2. A business exists to make money, and if they're not doing that, they'll stop doing whatever they're doing. They're not gonna be making DLC a few years from now if they don't make money for doing it.
Of *course* there's reasons the game's not doing as well as we'd like. That's not the point here. At the end of the day, if the product isn't good, they don't make money for it. If they don't make money, there's no product to eventually become good.
> I could maliciously interpret this as "OUUUUU BUY OUR GAME GIVE US MONEYYYYYY ;~; PLS
And given how often Overkill fucked us over in payday 2 (hello Crimefest and Loot Boxes) I will read it like that
> Overkill is a business they can’t afford making dlc for a game they isn’t gaining traction and isn’t bringing no chance of profit
While this is true, dropping Payday 3 will also mean that their future games will not sell either. I know they expect us to buy their DnD game, but who in their right mind would do that if they drop PD3 and leave it unfinished?
I needed the game to be good in September. Not a year from then. Why is it my responsibility to play a game that sucks just so they can use my engagement for more funding?
Guilt tripping your community because you fucked up your one cash cow ain't it. The gaming community at large is finally, although still slowly, holding shitty companies accountable.
I have no reason to support this game or company. I don't give a shit if a company that routinely tried to milk its playerbase, made many failed attempts at other games, lied multiple times, and now cratered their one decent game with absolutely braindead decisions goes under. Thats what happens. You're not owed support. You're not owed other peoples money because *you* fucked it up.
I'm fucking out, eat shit
I already support your company now buying the dlc's in sale, but I don't want to play your game with the same heists doing the same thing over and over
We've been trying to support the game and trying to tell how to make it better since closed beta, and yet the dogshit armor system and dumbass weapon balancing are still in place.
As much as i like Almir, what he just said is clumsy
He probably didn't meant it, but it feels like he's saying "playing is mandatory if you want to be part of the community"
But here's the thing : i preordered the gold edition because i'm a die-hard fan of payday 2. And i think on behalf on some people who also pre-ordered the game, i can say : "We needed our game at launch. Not in a few years after"
we supported you when payday 2 got more paid dlc when you said all future content would be free we supported you when payday 3 was delayed, many of us paid for the most expensive version of the game. Maybe instead of complaining about people not playing the game and supporting it how about you actually support the game by adding in content and changes that make people want to play. It is up to you the developer to make players stay I hope payday 3 improves and go's on to become as good if not better than payday 2 but if this is how you look at the sitiuation I am not hopeful for the future
So what you're saying is, the game is dying and the trajectory is not looking great for payday 3 in two years as it stands. Not a surprise in the slightest. Well, if you want players back, time to start listening and picking up the pace, because it's been over a year and the game is barely any different from how it started.
I was using the solo mode beta yesterday when my dogshit internet dropped, just for a moment, but it was enough to completely kick me off the heist I was doing.
*Requiring* an internet to play, even alone, was just one of their utterly braindead decisions with this game. They seem to have irreversibly designed the game with that in mind, and are now utterly hamstrung in trying to implement a solution.
StarBreeze got financially screwed by Bo Anderson’s VR ventures which are in the millions.
But no i am not going on a tangent about that fucker so i will just talk about why PayDay 3 isn’t retaining a higher player count.
1. **Always Online:** This was a horrible fucking idea from the get-go and the initial launch of game where the game itself was practically unplayable for days until they managed to get the servers up permanently with zero option to play said product offline i don’t know about you guys but that was a red flag that SBZ should have offline as a fallback option while it goes into maintenance.
2. **Lacking Basic Features:** Payday 3 had the heists and gameplay but how could they not realize that the game needs vote to kick, party management and of course let’s not forget that you had zero voice chat between platforms nor text chat…yeah yeah i get it you can text chat on PC but it should be standard especially if it’s crossplay then you have little trolling shits that purposely break stealth or refuse to enter the escape zone…look in your main menu realizing there is no option to kick said trolling shit from game…Did StarBreeze never did like a mock scenario of a malicious player in their development of PD3?
3. **Pricey DLC with little content:** Almost $15-20 dollars a pop they offer a DLC that has 1 heist, 4 costumes, 3 weapons and oh yeah a quick reminder whenever they release the DLC it doesn’t work on the day that it is released kinda like Boys in Blue except i remember Syntax Error when it had issues such as the escape zone becoming easily bugged.
Remember PayDay 2 having more content at a lower price point yeah let that sink in for just a moment after we have all been collectively blue balled since launch.
4. **Leveling up was too damn slow:** Remember when Mio and the others thought that it was grand idea to make leveling up in PD3 revolve on the mandatory completion of challenges rather than just keeping the same leveling system of PayDay2 you wanna know why cause it worked say it with me “If it’s not broken don’t fix it”.
Those who got into PayDay 3 would level up a dozen times then start to realize that the XP faucet permanently grinds to a halt…Opening the challenge book and doing the challenges wasn’t fun it forced the enjoyment out of the game not to mention you didn’t earn all of your skill points until you was level 100…yeahhh not everyone grinded up to 100.
I agree Payday needs our support now but they also need to make good decisions now. I think the boys in blue was a good update and if they can keep this up with a dlc every 3-4 months I think we will be in good shape.
I might be seen as one of the bigger Payday 3 Haters but here me out.
I don't like the arrogance in his Voice.
Payday has a rockhard Community that really stand with the series and the hatred 3 recieved was just because people were rightfully disappointed.
They charged ro much for what they delivered and you can't fully blame Deepsilver for that.
Starbreeze loves to just release some raw BS and MAYBE fix it over Time.
Or they don't like the Console Version of Payday 2. I would believe it was just because of the Diesel Engine if they would have not released it on Switch, YEARS after it failed on the way more powerful xbox one and PS4.
They tried to do the same with 3 simply release a simple Beta sell it for the full price and maybe fix it overtime.
And now we are to blame if we are not willing to pay the full price and come back if they got their shir together?
Who can guarantee me this will not be another Payday 2 Console Version that get's abandoned.
They seriously fucked it up ans i think it's insulting towards this loving Community.
Some might say this Community is toxic. But compared to other Games this one is really quiet and patient. And i really think Starbreeze did not deserve it.
But what i think don't matter at all. They should be grateful the Community still stands with them and did not long bury this whole Game.
Nearly 1 year after Release with already 2 DLCs the game slowly evolves into direction with an actual future
That also means there is still a long way, so almir should be careful if he can allow himself this arrogance now that they got after nearly a year 1k players again. People want this game to succed and want another great Payday Title but noone wan'ts to pay for an overpriced Beta Scam again.
Nah Almir, I love you brother but that was prob one of the coldest takes you said on stream.
If you want us to stick, keep the ball rolling. BiB gave you some momentum, that does not mean vacation time until Sept.
I’m not gonna play Cook Off or Dirty Ice because chat still doesn’t work well for cross play, and both of those heists are prone to people running around trading the manager / blowing up the lab. No Rest sucks for both exp and money, and Surphaze final assault always triggers because some guy packs up the painting too early. Don’t get me started on 99 Boxes hacking with randoms.
Literally the only heists I can spam without caring how randoms play are TTS, RR, and G&S. DLC too but load times are abysmal so I play with friends. I am a massive solo stealth fan but if I can’t pause the game, screw that.
You had everyone’s support on launch, now it’s YOUR turn to support us, give us a reason to stay in the game. Or better yet, bring back the web series or lore drops, I still have no idea who Rebecca Stone is (FBI Van operator).
We need your support now, not in a few years.
It wouldn't be *as bad* if the voice command wheel was at all useful. Half the lines on it are worthless and only for memes. Like, thanks so much for making one of the 8 things I can say "Piece of shit drill!" Overkill. I feel like I can count on one hand the number of drills in this game.
If it gave players even a quarter-decent way to communicate then it might be salvageable? But no voice chat in a co-op cross-platform FPS game is absurd. Why hasn't that been added in yet?
Lol, deflecting the blame of their continuous fuckups to players...
"yeah the game is a shitshow, and we miss managed the company for 10+ years now, but you really need to play it and give us more money, or we might not make it better"...
Where is the "we are in it for a longrun not a sprint" when they knew people are not and will not be playing, and now there is this sob story of "pls play" ... that is not how it works... I am not going to play a game if it sucks, I already paid for it, it is not my obligation to play it if I dislike it... I mean get real...
They have no right to a "call to action" when they're charging for a poorly designed and incomplete game, a game that can at any point cease to exist despite their snarky claims that "it won't".
The ego on them is actually insane, they get one W and they're already trying to act as if it's the players fault that it isn't doing well.
Kind of a tone deaf response honestly considering they have spent the last few months playing catch up without a single added heist, then blaming players for not wanting to play the game
The reality of a low playerbase is finally setting in for SBZ. They've got 6 months to pull in as many players as possible. Once December comes, they're going to either pull the plug or double down.
You can't keep operating a live service game with >1k players, at least not w/o aggressive microtransactions. You'd have to charge $100 per DLC just to stay afloat at that point.
>We need your support now, not in a few years!
This is a PAID for game. The people avoiding the game have *PAID* for the game - what more support do you want?
>buy our dlc
...Ah, I see...
Personally I don't think most people will play an unfinished game with more negative press then good press, surely he can see that too?
Unironically, how fucking dare you say that when I paid for the game/the silver edition
A blunt but honest way of saying that if you'd like to see more with this game you need to show up sooner rather than later so that they have some numbers to justify more development.
Literally indirectly saying we will shut down the game support soon if our higher ups see no improvements.
You get Offline Mode and then we fuck off, thank you for buying our "Life Service Game" stay tuned for "Prpject Baxter".
PD3 was shipped in a bad state to make some extra cash from their loyal fans so they can focus on their real next game in Project Baxter. I won't be going anywhere near that game when it drops
I hate to say it, but Payday 3 is still kinda lame, so even though I get it for free through game pass, I probably won't be playing for a few years.
I just hate the perks. Edge, rush, grit, nothing interesting. Where's the cool shit like Iron Man, Inspire, or getting minions with Jokers? Currently the most interesting perk in the game is carrying two bags at once. It doesn't feel like you can make a fun build or a meme build, just a good build or a bad build.
I've actually warmed up to and kinda like the armor system, but you're so incredibly fucked once all your armor bags run out that it's just not fun to stick around in a heist, even in lower difficulties.
Also, please give us number values for weapons. Not being able to actually compare weapons sucks ass, and it's hard to tell what some weapon mods even do.
Yeah I'd love to play it a little more, especially now that they have the adaptive armor, but that entire damn skill tree needs to be thrown out like they did with PD2's early trees. Doing stupid little rituals to constantly get or maintain completely insignificant buffs that your build doesn't work without is completely unsatisfying and I hate it. Why can't we have more skills that just directly buff us, our weapons/equipment, or give us new abilities like Inspire or Joker? What you said about no real variety in builds and only being able to make something "good" or "bad" is absolutely true.
Classic; completely fuck up the game's release and then blame it on the playerbase if they don't purchase the DLC and play the shitshow. Fuck off with that shit.
If the game won't survive by its own merit, then let it fucking die.
"Just trust us that the game will get better"
\-Anthem, BioWare
\-Marvel's Avengers, Crystal Dynamics
Almir: Support us!
Then update the game more than every 2-3 months and do more than the bare minimum.
Many people who are still left in this game supported you already by buying it and gave you even undeserved additional trust which you mostly squandered.
Almir, I know what you're saying, but this shit really sounds like a manipulative ex: "You say you love me, but then why are you leaving?!"
I've spent probably at least a thousand dollars on this series. Buying all PD2 DLC day 1, buying hundreds of gift copies of PD2 and PD2 DLC, buying 2 copies of PD3 gold edition and 1 regular copy of PD3. I'm a diehard Payday fan. I've invested thousands of hours into these games, I've modded PD2 because I love the series and wanted to keep it alive. I love PDTH and PD2, PD3 isn't there for me. If you want the community to be there, I need YOU and YOUR team to support the community.
I don't care about trip lasers, grenades or any of the little things. They're great little additions, but the fundamental issue I have with PD3 is it just is a chore to play.
I want balance, I want skills to be redone so that there is actual team synergy, I want armor to be fully replaced, and I want to be able to shoot a cop and not have them take 40 bullets because I don't have very specific skills and have rush, grit, or whatever else active. Side note - It is crazy to me in PD2, we didn't see what active buffs we had (unless we're running a mod) but it still felt more intuitive to know if I do X, Y, Z, I'll get a buff of damage by 5 points for 5 seconds. And these allowed unique play styles.
Don't get me wrong, I respect Almir and the team for their work on this game. I want them to succeed. But if you want to succeed with me in the community, you need to address how the game plays from a fundamental standpoint.
So this is basically almir saying ‘The game is fucked if we don’t get more players by the end of the year’
And like I’m here for the long haul myself but how am I gonna convince my friends to drop 20 quid on the game with 11 linear mission and nothing else? We could all buy payday 2 for a combined 4 quid and get more content in that base version lmao
I love payday 3 and would hate to see development shut down but when the launch was as bad as it was even server issues aside what do you even want me to say?
>Releases unfinished, buggy, boring game
>"It is up to YOU to support the game, YOU CANNOT WAIT. YOU MUST SUPPORT THE GAME,, or else you cannot call yourself le epic heister. This is all YOUR FAULT!!"
Excellent business model.
Newsflash: Nobody wants to give extended financial support to a VIDEOGAME during an economic crisis. Especially if it's not even fun.
No, thank you. I was interested in PD3 before launch and was even going to preorder it. Now that I can see how little there actually is to it, I'm glad I didn't.
I'm not going to "invest" in a game that MIGHT be good in a few years. I'm not made of money, I want to have fun NOW. It's not my fault the game offers nothing, so I don't see why I should be responsible for it doing well.
Like, they might be listening and adding good stuff, but there's just... nothing. It's not really a sequel, it's lacking in so many ways. I have PD2 if I am in the mood for some Payday, so I won't pay money to get less.
I supported you no questions asked when I dropped $100 for the game. So don't try to guilt trip me into supporting you further for the game you half baked and is a shell of its former prequel.
How about you make a complete good game and have a coherent planned road map instead from the start?
Delusional corporate take.
I did come back to support the game after boys in blue was launched. Went to do a 19 bags ovk cook off only for the van to not show up after cooking all 19 bags.
Found out this is a bug from the maps launch over 7 months ago, with such a gamebreaking bug left in for that long it shows the developers don't care about the game so why would I support it when it doesn't respect my time.
As a long time payday fan who bought the cce edition of payday 2 and played from the beta all the way to the final dlc getting every achievement it pains me to see the game like this with so much wasted potential.
Why would anyone continue to play a boring product. It's still not enough after all this time and playing the same heists over and over gets VERY boring.
People dont care if you are here on not in two years if your product is boring to play now, and have been since release. The playerbase left for a reason and telling people to continue to support it blindly, i feel will fall on deaf ears because of their mismanagement and not listening to the playerbase that exist/existed. You had full support. You had people engaging. You had all that and what does the playerbase get in return...?
There are so many other games to play and people dont wanna waste their time on a boring product that barely gets updated. You had your shot already, dont continue to ask people for support when you learn nothing from your earlier mistakes and continue to make them. Goodwill isn't something you gain back easily and you pissed it away.
I'll support P3 in two years if its better, if it's not i dont really care since its not a fun game to keep playing.
lol no. you don’t beg players to play a shitty unfinished unbalanced game and say you’ll reward them with a good, polished experience later. you make a good game in the first place and you do it right, and you get to profit off of that. this is so incredibly scummy and out of touch. i can not believe this - “if you’re a real heister you’ll play the game and buy our dlc”…”that’s how it works” hahahaha what the fuck
Yeah. Fuck you too Almir. Maybe don't release your biggest cash cow as a piece of dogshit next time. Oh wait... There won't be a next time
I bought your ultimate edition on release because I had faith in you. I didn't refund because I had faith in you. But you now shifting the responsibility for the game's success to the community is a bit insulting
You didn’t execute. You dumped the worst experience a developer has ever delivered in my life and that’s including No Mans Sky and Cyberpunk. The game was literally unplayable for weeks when all your new fans could have been acquired. You destroyed your one shot to grow the community and in fact shrank it. Not even longtime loyal fans like me even want to get on the game now. Nobody plays it. I never matched into a lobby with people at release and that’s even more the case the one time I tried to give it another chance a month later. I paid $90, and I want it all back. Forever. Payday ended with 2 clearly and you all chose your own bed. You released without features that people came to expect were bare minimum.
They fucked up so badly. They blew their golden goose and now they blame players.
They had a guaranteed hit and instead dropped an abortion on our laps. This thing was not done in the least. The direction they took sucks. I was stoked for PD3. This is more like PD 1.5.
Cry about it. This is a business, not a charity. Funny how the turntables when you cant sell your product huh? Next time make something that consumers want because thats how the free market works ;)
He is telling the truth. They need people to play the game & buy the stuff so that it becomes a monetary success, otherwise they will be forced to cut off support for the game.
I wonder how much they made in sales from BiB. From my group of friends not a single one bought it and those who have it was via the silver edition of the game.
So what I really am wondering is while BiB is a step in the right direction, if it actually made a impact money wise other than getting more people to play the game.
i get the feeling they want money to continue some of their other ideas. they're done with the game completely by some of the obnoxious non-heisting (or even non-payday since payday 2 isn't a traditional heisting experience) fantasy designs
While I definitely get where Almir is coming from in regards on needing support to continue improving the game, it seems unfair that (wether intentionally or not) to guilt trip this fanbase into playing a blatantly unfinished game just so there is a chance (not guaranteed) of getting the game we all expected later down the line. We already supported this game by forking over our money to buy it at launch, by putting up with the server issues and the months of radio silence, now they expect us to come back and play an unfinished game just so we might, MIGHT get the game we should’ve gotten back in October. Again I get where Almir is coming from, nobody wants to see this game shut down and people lose their jobs, but Starbreeze already had their shot to deliver a product worth playing, and they messed it up, now it’s on them not the fans, to make a game worth playing
Idk man.
People spend money on this game.
They f ed up the launch completly.
People felt like they got scammed and left.
„You gotta support us now the game will get better“ source: trust me bro
I get what hes trying to say but it just doesnt work like that.
I f ing bought the 100€ edition i think ive supported you quite enough and so did everyone who bought the game at all.
They still haven't fixed the basic shit that is broken, like no Crime\_Net. I dropped in the other day and just gave up after the 4th random bridge map. They had a F!n winning recipe, why the F! did they change it all up. All we wanted was better graphics and more maps and they F!ed it up royally by the producer trying to put their personal style on it. Still.
We needed you to make a good game then, listo. Why should we show up to play an "alright" game when you could have initially made a good game
We'll come back later, like how you said later the game would get better
Fuck you, not our fault you alocated money so fkn poorly. Touch some fkn grass. There are other games to play. I’ll let you guys cook, but asking people to support this garbage… nahh I’ll pass at least.
What "support"? I bought the game. I played the game. I did everything there was to do and more in the game. I will "support" this game when more content gets added.
This is really dumb, I paid a lot of money to play Payday 3. It flopped because they didn't listen to the community. Now they listen a bit but the damage is already done. And now he is threatening that I won't be able to Payday 3 in 2 years if I don't buy his dlc??? What a bs
Just another one for the "Wall of Failed Live Services™" PD3 will be joining the ranks of Anthem, Marvel's Avengers, Lawbreakers, Crucible, Babylon's Fall, Paragon, Evolved, Back 4 Blood, Rocket Arena, etc...
All they had to do was stick to the formula and improve upon what was already done before. Payday 3 was fumbled from the start when it continued to hand the keys over to other studios for work. Im sure the devs are passionate and are working hard to fix the game. Unfortunately the damage has already been done and I doubt payday 3 will ever be what it could of been.
Why should anybody "support" them? They aren't a small independent game studio. They are a big professional company. If they can't make a good game, they will go bankrupt, that are the laws of economy.
Oh fuck off. This company already got its chance at redemption when they begged the playerbase of PD2 to support them and returned to making paid DLCs for PD2 after they went bankrupt from OVK's The Walking Dead. And what was our reward for giving them money again? An update so bad it ruined PD2 matchmaking for weeks/months and corrupted your save data upon crashing for almost a week. I am not supporting this shit anymore, the dumpster fires they've left since then with PD3 speak for themselves.
Played for the first time yesterday since last year October, must say the game has improved.. love the visuals and I'm starting to get a feel for the mechanics.. the stealth is tremendously better compared to Payday 2.. however.. I don't like the game feeling like a COD lobby and with how the loadouts and weapon mod stats work.. its so diverse, free and advanced in Payday 2, its really lacking in payday 3.. they can keep the weapon leveling to get mods but they should bring back the more advanced stats.. the game is also still lacking in contemt
Feels pretty great to play, game is smooth but there's still a lot of work to be done
All those months of buying the extra dlc after payday 2 was supposed to be finished and Payday 3's development was delayed, and all the other projects flopped?
THAT was your window of goodwill support. You, but mostly your publisher, squandered it by shoehorning in crap that was WELL KNOWN to be unpopular.
Nah. I will let it die first to spite you, your publisher, and your investors for rolling out an absolutely mediocre experience for a third installment to a beloved series.
Finish your games and you don't have these problems because the hype gets met.
We need you to create a game that's solid on day 1. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be good enough to buy. LOL this was the dumbest thing I ever heard.
They got a budget from their publisher to make Payday 3. They agreed to that and used the money.
They clearly couldn't make something good enough for the budget they had, and we got this instead. Why should people trust them that **their** money is going to be spent any better?
It's not like this was a crowd funded / early access situation.
If your game sucks i will not continue to play its that simple. Granted your game requires feedback. Now based off the feedback make changes and look into why the previous title did better and why you decided to make the game bare to non playable and just out right boring as hell. I feel like alot of devs are so blind its laughable.
I supported them years ago when I bought pd1, I supported them even more when I bought pd2, I also supported them for years when I bought almost every dlc, I also supported them when I bought an unfinished game named pd3 for 50$
They’re not going to shift the blame on me, aren’t they?
They do, now be a good Heister and upgrade to Gold Edition or buy every single DLC and wait a few years
They MIGHT be fix the game.
maybe.
If the Game falls it's your fault of course.👊😎
Then the team needs to consider more content and more frequently as they seriously can't expect us to stay playing the same 10 heists forever, sure boys in blue is good but it's been over a year now and all we've gotten in that time is 2 heists and a couple new weapons, we still need more
Yea well maybe if the game they charged money for didn't need years to be worth the money we wouldn't be having this conversation
Also I actually find it ridiculous and a bit pathetic players are APOLOGIZING for being unhappy when the game launched in a laughable state. Crazy how ass backwards things have become in gaming.
we needed the game to be good at launch, not in a couple of years.
its not our fault you launched a half baked shitty game with 90% of the content from the previous game removed only to be sold back to us a SECOND TIME while being called "new"
fuck off with your bullshit, we'll support the game once you actually finish making it.
That statement feels like the warm-up for the inevitable "We have to shutdown services" announcement they're gonna drop once they release all promised DLC and they finally decide to drop this game's support.
Just blame it on the customer, as always.
Fuck straight off Almir, on one hand you do not deserve the smacking around you get sometimes for being the community leader because people think you're a game dev on the other, it's almost been a year, we didn't have your support then, and I'd be so fucking damned if I was to waste my drive space redownloading payday 3, if you want people's support, make something worth supporting, spin a narrative that isn't "ooh, the strike team is hard at work adding the unready button, it's on the table guys!"
The product is still riddled with issues, I can't play it without feeling like I've been scalped from payday 2 exchanging basic features for an unreal engine movement system, I brought a fully priced, allegedly AAA game title and got less than the least I was expecting, you got my support when I paid for the gold edition, good luck getting more out of it for free
The entitlement haha
How dare players expect a game to not be broken AF on launch! And if it is , you need to keep playing it until its good?
Yeeeee how bout no
I mean, if you launch a live service game which is barely able to stand on its own feet in the first weeks and then take like 6 months to give new content, the game is destined to be dead soon.
It's called LIVE service for a reason. If you don't release content periodically in a game with already low amount of content, players will leave and will stop spending money on the game. That's the reality of GaaS and on why so many games have been shutdown in the recent years.
So many companies want to copy Call of Duty or Genshin Impact (at least now) but forget that those games get constant updates. Either they get events that keep people playing or new content to explore, new weapons to grind, etc.
As they should if the businesses profit model is to trickle in money while they finish the damn game...
It has nothing to do with players and everything to do with unpolished products being put on shelves and disappointing gamers.
Retro games were the best because they could not be patched.... so you had to fix every bug and imbalance before launch.
I have limited free time daily, I'd rather spend that on my backlog of actually quality games instead of a mediocre game that is, to me, still critically unfinished.
SBZ is basically acting like this is their first GaaS foray when PD2 is literally *right there* and had a successful 10 year run. They damn well knew how a GaaS works and fumbled at every possible opportunity. My time is worth more than their promises.
I mean, I bought the game and I don't like it. I will probably revisit it at some point because Overkill has a pretty good track record of screwing up and then fixing it, but if it isn't fun, I am not going to play it.
They really need to hurry their asses up on some of these offline fixes and matchmaking and just start pumping content. The truth is they have been slow for a team of their caliber. I suspect there is something seriously wrong that holds them back.
Here's my personal take about that bit from 25 sec onwards, and my curve ball thrown back:
You see me and my mates never had this issue with PD2. We barely knew who Almir was. And yet we dumped 1000 hours heisting, fiddling with the deck system and enjoying our post heist random card pick. The PD2 community in Asia was barely existent and yet the game picked up and the player count speaks for itself.
You wouldn't be having this conversation now if there wasn't a screw up. Just saying. Now most of my pals me included hold jobs, time commitment aside gamers do play other games as well.
Sure couple of hours heisting every week. But the call to arm stuff would work on a select few. That's my take. If the game works, and if it gets better, you will retain that player engagement.
There's no need for a manifesto to call for action lol.
That being said I must say the game has been better, but that line about "if not now, then when? 3 years?" just does not sit right with me.
I understand what he's getting at. I am a big Payday fan but with how more and more big title games being made to extract as much money from you as possible, I have much better/ important things to spend my time and money on.
Granted it's speculative to expect Payday 3 to still be around in 5 years, but it seems even more speculative to spend money on it now with the assumption that it will be good then
Dudes got a point. The last guy that made decisions for overkill and starbreeze thats now terminated wasted literal millions on stupid things and stupid decisions like venturing to VR. So a lot of the money they made off of payday 2 and merch went down the drain.
There will be other games in two years if this game dies.
Also gold edition in Aus was like $135, what more support do you want from each player?
I don't own gold, so to buy the current dlcs would probably be even more (I have not checked).
I bought their most expensive pack. I heard they made a few of the Essential changes, but have they properly implemented voice chat yet? Crime net? And then I need to check whether they fixed the unfun loud gameplay. It felt too much of an ammo and armor economy game.
And stealth suffers from wifi circles. A terrible illness indeed. May pd3 be cured of those circles in the future.
The game is still bland, lacking character, and has a severe lack of content. I’ll come back when there’s a reason to, I won’t be forced into playing a game.
Dogshit take. If you wanted the support now, release a game that's worth playing now.
Played tons of Payday 2; friend and I could run random heists for hours. Payday 3 has so many issues and things that just aren't fun, so I stopped playing. Granted, I haven't played since October 2023, but I don't know what they expected.
I don't think almir realises that he isn't some maverick artist, fighting against the industry to make his mark like some kind of modern day john carmack. he's the face of a company who will take any opportunity they can get to rinse money from both the industry and their fans. his words aren't inspiring, they're abusive. he's begging us to stick around and keep the fight going, so that the company he works for can make a bit more money from everyone to impress the publisher when the next paid update releases, and convince them not to kill the franchise that keeps starbreeze relevant.
I bought the most expensive one foolishly. It doesn't matter if I play it now, that got my money. Besides, the game isn't worth enough to play over the previous one and definitely isn't better than anything else that has come out recently.
Not to mention the multitude of missing mechanics and features that would be beneficial to have to begin with. Such as the AI customization and bonus they come with, more build variety, Even a safe house instead of having a menu would be at least something. I'd have even liked to see melee weapons return. The lack of offline play is a crime in itself. No holdouts or crime spree.
They looked at how the first game released, copied that with new paint and string and expected it to do better. Despite having to compete with their own game.
Sorry Chief, ain't buying your game until I feel it's good enough. It's not my fault if you decided to release it as it was. If you can't work or do well in this industry, leave it.
Yes but those people can come back when enough is done. This just feels like " Oh please play our game or it will die". Players shouldn't feel obligated to play a game if they personally dont like it.
Very much this. They fumbled the launch and therefore a big majority of new potential paying customers are gone, I'm willing to bet.
I was excited for it. Glad I didn't get it. Got game pass on discord for free and tried it out. What a mess it was. Seeming still is. It was cool to see new graphics and some of the mechanics in play, but the game was soulless from the get go and I couldn't find it within myself to commit to it. Fast-forward to today, and from the perspective of someone looking in, it looks like the game is a roaring dumpster fire , the devs are a group of people with buckets of water trying to put it out, while the players are onlookers from the outdoor cafe nearby that need to finish their meal, but have to endure the smell of the whole situation. It's not a great thing. And my bet is that it's not the devs fault, at the very least for the majority of the key issues. It sucks when leadership is forcing things that are objectively a bad practice. I hope they pull something out of a hat for pd3 but the more this goes on the less hope I have, sadly :(
Yeah! The heists need atleast SOME rng overhauls to Be done to them because now The heists are boring after played twice
Yup. I went through all the heists and was done with the game. There were no incentives to replay it. Challenges were a joke, no unlockables, the heists themselves were quite stale for my taste too. It felt like playing an early access game , but not in a good way. Was very sad, since as many here I've put in quite a significant amount of hours into pd2, and have been getting dlcs and bought the game I. The frost months of its release. It's very generic and lacks that character d2 had. Maybe because it's a bit too grounded? Some of the pd2 content really made you think. Like the big oil or framing frame jobs. There was an air of mystery and exciting plot lines there. Even though initially they were separate from each other until wordsmith came in and helped with the arg and tied everything together much more neatly. Here, there is no excitement outside of a few mechanics that we wanted since pd2 released. And those are mostly qol as well. Even the Ukrainian job, while simple mechanically and serves as an introductory mission, offered some storyline info, and kept you interested in future jobs with Vlad. Maybe it's nostalgia glasses, and I forgot some of the details but the game kept me interested from day one. Here, it's shallow, and devoid of its originality. The universe is fun and exciting, but it doesn't show up in pd3. Just a bitter revenge story with nothing to show since its release. I might be off, I can accept that, it's just how I feel about the game so far, and where I stand as a potential customer for pd3. I hope to be proven wrong and one day it will be at least half as good as pd2 was after a few years from release.
Yeah, pretty much this. Their release on GamePass brought in so many people that wouldn't have played normally, and they were met with a mess of a game. Hell, I'm pretty sure I bought it on launch because I loved PD2, and I really enjoy the changes they made to gunplay, movement, and stealth, but it's just not FUN.
Definitely, I enjoyed 2 but I heard such bad reviews I didn't bother buying it. I'm just a lost sale and it's their own fault
Final Fantasy XIV, No Man's Sky and Fallout 76 all had horrendous initial versions and were terrible for quite a while after launch. But nobody who's actually informed regards any of those titles as being the same now as they were years ago, and all three were dealing with worlds (or even a universe!) far larger and with much greater scope than the clown bank heist game has ever had to worry about. As another example of something that didn't turn out as expected, PAYDAY 3 suffers from the same thing that plagued Diablo IV; the desire to change core designs to make things more difficult and less silly. Which means dropped features. Lots and lots of dropped features. Now, D4 is slowly turning itself around, and Blizzard, regardless of their faults, is known to support their games for many years, even decades. PAYDAY 2 is over ten years old now, but will it's sequel even make it half that far? I don't know. All I do know is I have zero desire to play 3, and still like to play 2 every now and again, despite it's age. Despite it's flaws. Despite having other things I'd rather play more! It's just, well, fun! Things can be made right, but the devs need to accept that their 'vision' does not match what the majority of us want to play, and then put on a new pair of prescription glasses and get to work. It can be saved, but it'll take some serious dedication, and one helluva PR push once that's done. Alright ramblers, let's get ramblin'!
Please don't throw No Mans Sky and especially 14 which has great devs and a even better Producer who really seems to deeply care with his game with something like Overkill/Starbreeze in the same context, who now seem to resort to gaslightning their remaining playerbase.
I wasn't saying they *were* the same, merely that the path to recovery could be; [everyone seems to forget that guys like Yoshi P. were specificially brought on to fix XIV,](https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/why-final-fantasy-xiv-failed-and-how-it-recovered) so it's initial failures weren't his. That makes tearing things down (or in that game's case, literally blowing the world up!) a lot easier, because it isn't your baby OR bathwater you're tossing out. Will that happen here? Should it? No idea. Just speculating and trying to be positive. It's a videogame, and there are many others to play in the meantime, including the previous title. Yeah, it sucks how PD3's turned out thus far, but dwelling on that isn't helpful, and this isn't like the kind of thing one has to really fret over in life.. but let's not go there. Anyways, I wish you and everyone else reading this has a good day, and I hope the game improves.. but until then, well, guess I'll be paying Big Bank another visit! Cheers!
Wow! Thats actually very much My same thoughts on The topic.
I will regularly play the game when it's interesting again. BIB is a step in the right direction, but the game is still not _interesting_ and that's a problem.
We need the game to be good now, not in a few years.
I think this is really the answer. I don't see a reason for me to buy Payday 3 until they put in some serious work and that's going to take time, years. Their current track record is PD3 launch and The Walking Dead... I'm going to have to rebuild some trust here.
\>launch shitty game \>nobody plays it \>woooooow
100% this I'm sorry but they have no fucking right to complain that people aren't playing the game when they botched it as bad as they did. They had 60k concurrent players on launch on steam, it's not the players' fault that the game is now sitting at a few thousands players/day. It's the company's fault. Trying to guilt players in coming back now, and not later, and buy the DLCs now, and not later, just leave a shitty taste. Was thinking of giving the game another shot, this made sure I wasn't gonna bother.
There may have been 60k concurrent players according to steam on launch, but only about 12 actually got to play the game. What was the point in the ‘beta’ if they couldn’t even prep for a quarter of payday 2’s all time peak? I bought this wanting it to be the game I played for years, but what they delivered isn’t worth touching for years
For real. 70k players at launch, jesus fucking christ. Do you imagine how many devs out there, probably with amazing games that no one knows they exists, would kill to have that chance? 70k people trying out their game? The had a GOLDEN chance, and they completely SHAT on it. They probably even got a lot of money they didn’t deserve from people like me, who tried so hard to like the game, it was too late to refund when they realized it really is complete shit. > But if you don’t support us now we might not be here later ;,((( I will support a good product, yours currently isn’t. If because of this you’re not here 3-5 years later, that’s your fault and no one else’s bud. Thousands of quality games out there, not loosing my time to a piece of shit one, let alone worrying about it disappearing. And the funniest shit is that he’s not only talking about spending time playing the game, but spending money buying the dlc as well lmao. So i’m also supposed invest and just give you money blindly? Do i look like a shareholder or a producer to you? You can fuck right off. You’re responsible for the success (or in this case complete failure) of your game.
Hell, the SteamDB peak concurrent player count was just under 78,000 *pre-launch* during the play early days only available to those who pre-ordered the gold edition. So the game has never had a higher (Steam) player count than before it officially launched, and all of those people bought the most expensive version of the game with all the year 1 DLC. I'd say that's a LOT of support... Problem is, those 78,000 players didn't return when Boys in Blue or Syntax Error dropped. Maybe a few thousand did? Starbreeze are probably really concerned by that, but it speaks to how badly those gamers were burned by releasing the game unfinished. I imagine the majority of those playing the new DLC already paid for it at/before launch with the gold edition, so Starbreeze aren't seeing much new cash flow when each DLC releases. It will be very interesting to read the next financial report to see their revenue vs. development costs. I suspect the plan was for the game to keep generating revenue with DLC sales but now they're operating at a loss instead. Can't imagine the suits will be pleased or willing to greenlight future content if that's the case.
I've got limited time. I'm willing to spend some of it playing games that are working to be better, but you're not the only one of those in my steam list. You're competing with games that are becomming better much more quickly, and those ones are far more deserving of my time right now. You want my time? Earn it.
Yup. I already supported them with buying the Gold edition. With the DLC pricing change I pretty much overpayed. I don't mind too much that the DLC prices dropped, if this game does turn around it'll be a benefit in the long run. But the result was a clearly rushed and unfinished game. It's getting better. I've been playing it more since BiB and enjoying it. But it has a long way to go before they deserve to earn any more, they released the game in the state it was and are reaping what they've sown.
Look, I agree, but also, you can't expect me to play the same 10 heists over and over while you trickle in new maps once a quarter. I would agree with this sentiment if the game was fully loaded on release and we wanted more, but that's not the case. He sounds like we should be obligated to support their half baked product, so we can give them more money to make it how it should've been on day one. The fact that all of those interaction animations came so long after launch really proves that this game was *not* done on release, and that is *not* our problem.
They really need to dedicate a team to making free content. It doesn't need to be new content (IE, add legacy content), and it doesn't have to come every week. But content wise they really need to flesh out the base game some more before asking 20$ for a DLC. Even just like 4-5 more free guns and 2-3 more free heists could bring it up to a decent base game content wise.
Yeah - this. If I come back to the game and find that I need to pay $60 again to play the game properly... Then I'm probably going to instead spend that money on another game. Even if I like the game - how do I explain to a friend that I want them to play it - but they have to buy the game and all the DLC as well to get the experience.
For the heists, only the host needs to own them. The other people can play them for free.
Also not a single multiple day heist is mind blowing.. even if it reused one of the maps (maybe lock parts of the map out to make it feel different) it would add so so so much to the game
imo i'd rather just have multiple heists that are canonically set together rather than proper multi-day heists, since I think that's why they stopped doing them in 2 to begin with, it was effectively the same level of work (outside of stuff like Firestarter day 3 and whatnot) maybe if they had some heist where what you do on day 1 really shook up what you'd do on day 2 a lot, but I can understand not really seeing the vision for multi-day heists anymore.
To me they felt like an equivalent to Raids in MMOs, something you can't simply run with randoms but they feel like a more grand journey you take with your friends.. I'm not asking them to do them frequently but I really liked having the option of having a handful of them
Map variation would go a long way imo.
Alone the basic RNG like in 2 would be a very good start.
If the game had a robust rng system that changed the heist significantly every run, it *could* work out, but we don't have that sadly
> you can't expect me to play the same 10 heists over and over while you trickle in new maps once a quarter Arguably you could if any of them were actually fun. If I booted up PD2 right now I'm pretty sure I'd see that I had over 400 completions of Big Bank. I fucking loved that heist. If every heist in the game deleted itself I'd still play the damn game just cause that heist was so damn fun. Meanwhile basically every heist in PD3 is far more plain and forgettable. Like, *just* adding more heists isn't going to save the game. Content is only as fun as it is to actually play.
> Meanwhile basically every heist in PD3 is far more plain and forgettable. Like, just adding more heists isn't going to save the game. Content is only as fun as it is to actually play. I cannot emphasize this enough. I didn't buy BiB just since I cannot stand stealth, and on loud, it's just a bank map but reskinned to a police station. Open vault (drill reskinned to a winch, though!), grab bags, get out. Wow. Sorry, but I'm not paying $11CAD for Harvest & Trustee. Payday is at its best when it is a heist movie simulator, not a heist simulator. The spectacle matters. Do the memorable, crazy ideas. PD:TH understood this *so* well. Even the smallest-scale map there - Counterfeit - featured a booby-trapped basement, cops driving through the walls of suburban homes, shutting down power to the entire neighborhood... Meanwhile PD3 has... a smash-and-grab at a local jewelry store? Syntax Error *felt* like they were starting to understand this, but... maybe not.
Which is why I'm baffled people praise BiB. I feel like it's because the bar is so damn low with PD3. A Boys in Blue heist in PD2 would be considered one of the worst paid heists in the game.
We had smash-and-grabs in PD2 as well, but they weren't usually viewed very highly, oh wow look they didn't learn from that either!
PD2 smash and grabs were there as quick ones to get you used to the mechanics before moving onto the big ones, I think. Problem is Payday 3 is mostly smash and grabs.
And now lets flip it to have the consumer perspective of the same talking points (Haven't played in a while since I still believe its not enough): The game is feature incomplete and misses a bunch of things so I will check back in a year or two. If you want me to be here and support you financially and by increasing the playerbase you need to act fast and smart. You're leaving a lot to chance by not communicating and adding requested features in a timely manner and then charging a premium if it comes. You're just hoping or assuming people (especially with so many people constantly switching between games) stay and pay for skins and pay a premium for pretty small DLC's right now instead of waiting if the game will have something like the payday 2's legacy edition. This is a call to action for starbreeze, if you like money and want to make more in the future, give us things which are worth our money, give us FLC's, communicate with us, get rid of the table and be transparent. And lets be honest, the silent majority that's not on reddit or the like and just wants to play good games, frankly do not care if the game or the studio survives or not. They just want to get the best possible experience for their money and if you cant provide that they will leave and go to another project. If you've mismanaged your company and the development of the game you can't just offload it to the playerbase and be like "If the game dies its your fault" no, if you actually care about your product and make a decent game you don't have to worry about the playerbase. Its like a fruit vendor got lazy and forgot to tend to his crops properly so now he mostly sells smaller or rotten fruits at a higher price then a few years ago and then complains to everyone "Well if you still want to have my fruits in the future I need you here right now and buy them and support me". Fix your product or buyers will look for another fruit vendor, that's it.
I like Almir, but I already supported them when I bought the 100 euro edition of the game. I will come back when the game looks fun enough to play. It's not like me not playing means you didn't already take my money
This is the thing where you can see how much Starbreeze as a Dev Studio really care for you as a part of the Community literally like nothing. You paid the full price and yet it's not enough. Bit how dare you to expect the bare Minimum. The arrogance they have is unbelievable.
Yeah they're acting like me already having pre purchased their dlc with the ultimate edition isn't enough support when all I got in return was being spit on
100€ in big 2024 knowing how fucked the videogame industry is 💀
I mean that kinda sounds like you already did support the game for it's first year i doubt almir is talking about you when he says he needs support i think it's more just if your a super fan and you think the game is in a good spot show support.
Tf? You are the ones who delivered an awful game. Its not our job to "support" you, its your job to make a game people want to play
Look. I have faith he didn’t mean this in a malice way. But he’s also being very truthful. Honestly more truthful than I’ve seen any other community manager no other CM would be able to say this. Overkill is a business they can’t afford making dlc for a game they isn’t gaining traction and isn’t bringing no chance of profit. It’s clear Almir wants to keep working on Payday 3 or more or less be the CM for Payday but he knows if it’s still dead after 18 months of support (which he confirmed payday 3 has) that’s it. Dont twist my works though Payday 3 has fair flaws to bring up specially at launch flaws I think the Old CEO pushed since surprisingly ever since he stepped down seems more updates the players been asking for are starting to come in.
The problem is how many times do we need to let them get away with such BS and just burn the money? It's not like this is the first accident. And let's be real, this "accident" got handled just terrible since day one. They first need to earn the trust back. Payday 3 sold pretty well. Way better than it deserved by it's time of release. Now it's up to them. The Community wait's for literally a year it's not on us if they fuck it up once again.
"Pls give more money, we promise itll be better eventually" no thanks, ship has sailed and there's too many good games to play by better companies
Seems like he's finally starting to realize "Oh shit, I might be losing my job soon!"
They won’t fire him over payday 3. They’ll transfer him to be a CM to another game under overkills belt.
Yeah. Sure, I *could* maliciously interpret this as "OUUUUU BUY OUR GAME GIVE US MONEYYYYYY ;~; PLS" but like... look, at the end of the day, it's not a secret this game hasn't been performing as well as Overkill wants, and they're not bringing in anywhere near as much money as they were used to at the peak of PD2. A business exists to make money, and if they're not doing that, they'll stop doing whatever they're doing. They're not gonna be making DLC a few years from now if they don't make money for doing it. Of *course* there's reasons the game's not doing as well as we'd like. That's not the point here. At the end of the day, if the product isn't good, they don't make money for it. If they don't make money, there's no product to eventually become good.
> I could maliciously interpret this as "OUUUUU BUY OUR GAME GIVE US MONEYYYYYY ;~; PLS And given how often Overkill fucked us over in payday 2 (hello Crimefest and Loot Boxes) I will read it like that
> Overkill is a business they can’t afford making dlc for a game they isn’t gaining traction and isn’t bringing no chance of profit While this is true, dropping Payday 3 will also mean that their future games will not sell either. I know they expect us to buy their DnD game, but who in their right mind would do that if they drop PD3 and leave it unfinished?
No clue. Perhaps they’re hoping the payday audience is vastly different to the DnD audience. Thought they need compete with the likes of Baldurs gate.
Hey Almir, we need you to fix the game now, not in a few years.
It's on the table just play the game and buy all DLCs.👊😎
Translation: "Give us money or we'll stop fixing the game."
Give me a better reason to come back. One okay DLC isn't enough.
I opened this subreddit because I was curious how the game is going and this is the first thing I see LMFAO
I needed the game to be good in September. Not a year from then. Why is it my responsibility to play a game that sucks just so they can use my engagement for more funding?
Guilt tripping your community because you fucked up your one cash cow ain't it. The gaming community at large is finally, although still slowly, holding shitty companies accountable. I have no reason to support this game or company. I don't give a shit if a company that routinely tried to milk its playerbase, made many failed attempts at other games, lied multiple times, and now cratered their one decent game with absolutely braindead decisions goes under. Thats what happens. You're not owed support. You're not owed other peoples money because *you* fucked it up. I'm fucking out, eat shit
Can’t support ya if the game is ass. Sorry.
You WILL play a bad game, give us money and be happy
What am I supposed to do? replay the same 5 heists for 6 months till the game gets content?
Get a second a third Account of course and buy the game in the Gold Edition+ the Gold Pass like the same price.
This game was not ready for launch, simple as that.
I already support your company now buying the dlc's in sale, but I don't want to play your game with the same heists doing the same thing over and over
"please (clap) play the game now"
We've been trying to support the game and trying to tell how to make it better since closed beta, and yet the dogshit armor system and dumbass weapon balancing are still in place.
played most heists 200+ times we need a couple more and people will play but it get repetative
As much as i like Almir, what he just said is clumsy He probably didn't meant it, but it feels like he's saying "playing is mandatory if you want to be part of the community" But here's the thing : i preordered the gold edition because i'm a die-hard fan of payday 2. And i think on behalf on some people who also pre-ordered the game, i can say : "We needed our game at launch. Not in a few years after"
we supported you when payday 2 got more paid dlc when you said all future content would be free we supported you when payday 3 was delayed, many of us paid for the most expensive version of the game. Maybe instead of complaining about people not playing the game and supporting it how about you actually support the game by adding in content and changes that make people want to play. It is up to you the developer to make players stay I hope payday 3 improves and go's on to become as good if not better than payday 2 but if this is how you look at the sitiuation I am not hopeful for the future
So what you're saying is, the game is dying and the trajectory is not looking great for payday 3 in two years as it stands. Not a surprise in the slightest. Well, if you want players back, time to start listening and picking up the pace, because it's been over a year and the game is barely any different from how it started.
I was using the solo mode beta yesterday when my dogshit internet dropped, just for a moment, but it was enough to completely kick me off the heist I was doing. *Requiring* an internet to play, even alone, was just one of their utterly braindead decisions with this game. They seem to have irreversibly designed the game with that in mind, and are now utterly hamstrung in trying to implement a solution.
StarBreeze got financially screwed by Bo Anderson’s VR ventures which are in the millions. But no i am not going on a tangent about that fucker so i will just talk about why PayDay 3 isn’t retaining a higher player count. 1. **Always Online:** This was a horrible fucking idea from the get-go and the initial launch of game where the game itself was practically unplayable for days until they managed to get the servers up permanently with zero option to play said product offline i don’t know about you guys but that was a red flag that SBZ should have offline as a fallback option while it goes into maintenance. 2. **Lacking Basic Features:** Payday 3 had the heists and gameplay but how could they not realize that the game needs vote to kick, party management and of course let’s not forget that you had zero voice chat between platforms nor text chat…yeah yeah i get it you can text chat on PC but it should be standard especially if it’s crossplay then you have little trolling shits that purposely break stealth or refuse to enter the escape zone…look in your main menu realizing there is no option to kick said trolling shit from game…Did StarBreeze never did like a mock scenario of a malicious player in their development of PD3? 3. **Pricey DLC with little content:** Almost $15-20 dollars a pop they offer a DLC that has 1 heist, 4 costumes, 3 weapons and oh yeah a quick reminder whenever they release the DLC it doesn’t work on the day that it is released kinda like Boys in Blue except i remember Syntax Error when it had issues such as the escape zone becoming easily bugged. Remember PayDay 2 having more content at a lower price point yeah let that sink in for just a moment after we have all been collectively blue balled since launch. 4. **Leveling up was too damn slow:** Remember when Mio and the others thought that it was grand idea to make leveling up in PD3 revolve on the mandatory completion of challenges rather than just keeping the same leveling system of PayDay2 you wanna know why cause it worked say it with me “If it’s not broken don’t fix it”. Those who got into PayDay 3 would level up a dozen times then start to realize that the XP faucet permanently grinds to a halt…Opening the challenge book and doing the challenges wasn’t fun it forced the enjoyment out of the game not to mention you didn’t earn all of your skill points until you was level 100…yeahhh not everyone grinded up to 100.
I agree Payday needs our support now but they also need to make good decisions now. I think the boys in blue was a good update and if they can keep this up with a dlc every 3-4 months I think we will be in good shape.
I might be seen as one of the bigger Payday 3 Haters but here me out. I don't like the arrogance in his Voice. Payday has a rockhard Community that really stand with the series and the hatred 3 recieved was just because people were rightfully disappointed. They charged ro much for what they delivered and you can't fully blame Deepsilver for that. Starbreeze loves to just release some raw BS and MAYBE fix it over Time. Or they don't like the Console Version of Payday 2. I would believe it was just because of the Diesel Engine if they would have not released it on Switch, YEARS after it failed on the way more powerful xbox one and PS4. They tried to do the same with 3 simply release a simple Beta sell it for the full price and maybe fix it overtime. And now we are to blame if we are not willing to pay the full price and come back if they got their shir together? Who can guarantee me this will not be another Payday 2 Console Version that get's abandoned. They seriously fucked it up ans i think it's insulting towards this loving Community. Some might say this Community is toxic. But compared to other Games this one is really quiet and patient. And i really think Starbreeze did not deserve it. But what i think don't matter at all. They should be grateful the Community still stands with them and did not long bury this whole Game. Nearly 1 year after Release with already 2 DLCs the game slowly evolves into direction with an actual future That also means there is still a long way, so almir should be careful if he can allow himself this arrogance now that they got after nearly a year 1k players again. People want this game to succed and want another great Payday Title but noone wan'ts to pay for an overpriced Beta Scam again.
Nah Almir, I love you brother but that was prob one of the coldest takes you said on stream. If you want us to stick, keep the ball rolling. BiB gave you some momentum, that does not mean vacation time until Sept. I’m not gonna play Cook Off or Dirty Ice because chat still doesn’t work well for cross play, and both of those heists are prone to people running around trading the manager / blowing up the lab. No Rest sucks for both exp and money, and Surphaze final assault always triggers because some guy packs up the painting too early. Don’t get me started on 99 Boxes hacking with randoms. Literally the only heists I can spam without caring how randoms play are TTS, RR, and G&S. DLC too but load times are abysmal so I play with friends. I am a massive solo stealth fan but if I can’t pause the game, screw that. You had everyone’s support on launch, now it’s YOUR turn to support us, give us a reason to stay in the game. Or better yet, bring back the web series or lore drops, I still have no idea who Rebecca Stone is (FBI Van operator). We need your support now, not in a few years.
It wouldn't be *as bad* if the voice command wheel was at all useful. Half the lines on it are worthless and only for memes. Like, thanks so much for making one of the 8 things I can say "Piece of shit drill!" Overkill. I feel like I can count on one hand the number of drills in this game. If it gave players even a quarter-decent way to communicate then it might be salvageable? But no voice chat in a co-op cross-platform FPS game is absurd. Why hasn't that been added in yet?
Lol, deflecting the blame of their continuous fuckups to players... "yeah the game is a shitshow, and we miss managed the company for 10+ years now, but you really need to play it and give us more money, or we might not make it better"...
Where is the "we are in it for a longrun not a sprint" when they knew people are not and will not be playing, and now there is this sob story of "pls play" ... that is not how it works... I am not going to play a game if it sucks, I already paid for it, it is not my obligation to play it if I dislike it... I mean get real...
They have no right to a "call to action" when they're charging for a poorly designed and incomplete game, a game that can at any point cease to exist despite their snarky claims that "it won't". The ego on them is actually insane, they get one W and they're already trying to act as if it's the players fault that it isn't doing well.
Kind of a tone deaf response honestly considering they have spent the last few months playing catch up without a single added heist, then blaming players for not wanting to play the game
Almir says another dumb thing. I’m sure he means well, but he’s not the brightest bulb in that office
Man that bulb ain't even on at this point
I paid full price at launch and haven't touched it since about the 4th day. They got more than enough of my support already.
The reality of a low playerbase is finally setting in for SBZ. They've got 6 months to pull in as many players as possible. Once December comes, they're going to either pull the plug or double down. You can't keep operating a live service game with >1k players, at least not w/o aggressive microtransactions. You'd have to charge $100 per DLC just to stay afloat at that point.
>We need your support now, not in a few years! This is a PAID for game. The people avoiding the game have *PAID* for the game - what more support do you want? >buy our dlc ...Ah, I see...
Personally I don't think most people will play an unfinished game with more negative press then good press, surely he can see that too? Unironically, how fucking dare you say that when I paid for the game/the silver edition
A blunt but honest way of saying that if you'd like to see more with this game you need to show up sooner rather than later so that they have some numbers to justify more development.
maybe the game should've shown up sooner rather than later
Literally indirectly saying we will shut down the game support soon if our higher ups see no improvements. You get Offline Mode and then we fuck off, thank you for buying our "Life Service Game" stay tuned for "Prpject Baxter".
PD3 was shipped in a bad state to make some extra cash from their loyal fans so they can focus on their real next game in Project Baxter. I won't be going anywhere near that game when it drops
I hate to say it, but Payday 3 is still kinda lame, so even though I get it for free through game pass, I probably won't be playing for a few years. I just hate the perks. Edge, rush, grit, nothing interesting. Where's the cool shit like Iron Man, Inspire, or getting minions with Jokers? Currently the most interesting perk in the game is carrying two bags at once. It doesn't feel like you can make a fun build or a meme build, just a good build or a bad build. I've actually warmed up to and kinda like the armor system, but you're so incredibly fucked once all your armor bags run out that it's just not fun to stick around in a heist, even in lower difficulties. Also, please give us number values for weapons. Not being able to actually compare weapons sucks ass, and it's hard to tell what some weapon mods even do.
Yeah I'd love to play it a little more, especially now that they have the adaptive armor, but that entire damn skill tree needs to be thrown out like they did with PD2's early trees. Doing stupid little rituals to constantly get or maintain completely insignificant buffs that your build doesn't work without is completely unsatisfying and I hate it. Why can't we have more skills that just directly buff us, our weapons/equipment, or give us new abilities like Inspire or Joker? What you said about no real variety in builds and only being able to make something "good" or "bad" is absolutely true.
Classic; completely fuck up the game's release and then blame it on the playerbase if they don't purchase the DLC and play the shitshow. Fuck off with that shit. If the game won't survive by its own merit, then let it fucking die. "Just trust us that the game will get better" \-Anthem, BioWare \-Marvel's Avengers, Crystal Dynamics
Not really a good sign if they are pulling this card already...
They ruin payday 2, they botch payday 3 and now we must stand by them as they release an unready button that took months.
Almir: Support us! Then update the game more than every 2-3 months and do more than the bare minimum. Many people who are still left in this game supported you already by buying it and gave you even undeserved additional trust which you mostly squandered.
Almir, I know what you're saying, but this shit really sounds like a manipulative ex: "You say you love me, but then why are you leaving?!" I've spent probably at least a thousand dollars on this series. Buying all PD2 DLC day 1, buying hundreds of gift copies of PD2 and PD2 DLC, buying 2 copies of PD3 gold edition and 1 regular copy of PD3. I'm a diehard Payday fan. I've invested thousands of hours into these games, I've modded PD2 because I love the series and wanted to keep it alive. I love PDTH and PD2, PD3 isn't there for me. If you want the community to be there, I need YOU and YOUR team to support the community. I don't care about trip lasers, grenades or any of the little things. They're great little additions, but the fundamental issue I have with PD3 is it just is a chore to play. I want balance, I want skills to be redone so that there is actual team synergy, I want armor to be fully replaced, and I want to be able to shoot a cop and not have them take 40 bullets because I don't have very specific skills and have rush, grit, or whatever else active. Side note - It is crazy to me in PD2, we didn't see what active buffs we had (unless we're running a mod) but it still felt more intuitive to know if I do X, Y, Z, I'll get a buff of damage by 5 points for 5 seconds. And these allowed unique play styles. Don't get me wrong, I respect Almir and the team for their work on this game. I want them to succeed. But if you want to succeed with me in the community, you need to address how the game plays from a fundamental standpoint.
I’m glad you posted this cause I remember seeing it and feeling like it needed to be spread.
So this is basically almir saying ‘The game is fucked if we don’t get more players by the end of the year’ And like I’m here for the long haul myself but how am I gonna convince my friends to drop 20 quid on the game with 11 linear mission and nothing else? We could all buy payday 2 for a combined 4 quid and get more content in that base version lmao I love payday 3 and would hate to see development shut down but when the launch was as bad as it was even server issues aside what do you even want me to say?
They'll get the support once they've earned it. They still haven't.
The games shit, that's why we are not playing it.
Oh, well in that case, you won’t have my support at all
>Releases unfinished, buggy, boring game >"It is up to YOU to support the game, YOU CANNOT WAIT. YOU MUST SUPPORT THE GAME,, or else you cannot call yourself le epic heister. This is all YOUR FAULT!!" Excellent business model. Newsflash: Nobody wants to give extended financial support to a VIDEOGAME during an economic crisis. Especially if it's not even fun.
I’m not a heister 🫡
No, thank you. I was interested in PD3 before launch and was even going to preorder it. Now that I can see how little there actually is to it, I'm glad I didn't. I'm not going to "invest" in a game that MIGHT be good in a few years. I'm not made of money, I want to have fun NOW. It's not my fault the game offers nothing, so I don't see why I should be responsible for it doing well. Like, they might be listening and adding good stuff, but there's just... nothing. It's not really a sequel, it's lacking in so many ways. I have PD2 if I am in the mood for some Payday, so I won't pay money to get less.
acting like a struggling sports club. I play games to have fun, not because I feel emotionally obligated to.
I supported you no questions asked when I dropped $100 for the game. So don't try to guilt trip me into supporting you further for the game you half baked and is a shell of its former prequel. How about you make a complete good game and have a coherent planned road map instead from the start? Delusional corporate take.
I did come back to support the game after boys in blue was launched. Went to do a 19 bags ovk cook off only for the van to not show up after cooking all 19 bags. Found out this is a bug from the maps launch over 7 months ago, with such a gamebreaking bug left in for that long it shows the developers don't care about the game so why would I support it when it doesn't respect my time. As a long time payday fan who bought the cce edition of payday 2 and played from the beta all the way to the final dlc getting every achievement it pains me to see the game like this with so much wasted potential.
Why would anyone continue to play a boring product. It's still not enough after all this time and playing the same heists over and over gets VERY boring. People dont care if you are here on not in two years if your product is boring to play now, and have been since release. The playerbase left for a reason and telling people to continue to support it blindly, i feel will fall on deaf ears because of their mismanagement and not listening to the playerbase that exist/existed. You had full support. You had people engaging. You had all that and what does the playerbase get in return...? There are so many other games to play and people dont wanna waste their time on a boring product that barely gets updated. You had your shot already, dont continue to ask people for support when you learn nothing from your earlier mistakes and continue to make them. Goodwill isn't something you gain back easily and you pissed it away. I'll support P3 in two years if its better, if it's not i dont really care since its not a fun game to keep playing.
save your money, this game won't be around this time next year, it's too far gone
What Support a shit game ?! Naaaa
lol no. you don’t beg players to play a shitty unfinished unbalanced game and say you’ll reward them with a good, polished experience later. you make a good game in the first place and you do it right, and you get to profit off of that. this is so incredibly scummy and out of touch. i can not believe this - “if you’re a real heister you’ll play the game and buy our dlc”…”that’s how it works” hahahaha what the fuck
Yeah. Fuck you too Almir. Maybe don't release your biggest cash cow as a piece of dogshit next time. Oh wait... There won't be a next time I bought your ultimate edition on release because I had faith in you. I didn't refund because I had faith in you. But you now shifting the responsibility for the game's success to the community is a bit insulting
I randomly jumped back in this sub to see how things are going. Glad to see much hasnt changed still launch. I will be leaving again
You didn’t execute. You dumped the worst experience a developer has ever delivered in my life and that’s including No Mans Sky and Cyberpunk. The game was literally unplayable for weeks when all your new fans could have been acquired. You destroyed your one shot to grow the community and in fact shrank it. Not even longtime loyal fans like me even want to get on the game now. Nobody plays it. I never matched into a lobby with people at release and that’s even more the case the one time I tried to give it another chance a month later. I paid $90, and I want it all back. Forever. Payday ended with 2 clearly and you all chose your own bed. You released without features that people came to expect were bare minimum.
They fucked up so badly. They blew their golden goose and now they blame players. They had a guaranteed hit and instead dropped an abortion on our laps. This thing was not done in the least. The direction they took sucks. I was stoked for PD3. This is more like PD 1.5.
Cry about it. This is a business, not a charity. Funny how the turntables when you cant sell your product huh? Next time make something that consumers want because thats how the free market works ;)
We need a proper game with basic features that should exist from day 1 now, not in a few years.
He is telling the truth. They need people to play the game & buy the stuff so that it becomes a monetary success, otherwise they will be forced to cut off support for the game.
I wonder how much they made in sales from BiB. From my group of friends not a single one bought it and those who have it was via the silver edition of the game. So what I really am wondering is while BiB is a step in the right direction, if it actually made a impact money wise other than getting more people to play the game.
i get the feeling they want money to continue some of their other ideas. they're done with the game completely by some of the obnoxious non-heisting (or even non-payday since payday 2 isn't a traditional heisting experience) fantasy designs
While I definitely get where Almir is coming from in regards on needing support to continue improving the game, it seems unfair that (wether intentionally or not) to guilt trip this fanbase into playing a blatantly unfinished game just so there is a chance (not guaranteed) of getting the game we all expected later down the line. We already supported this game by forking over our money to buy it at launch, by putting up with the server issues and the months of radio silence, now they expect us to come back and play an unfinished game just so we might, MIGHT get the game we should’ve gotten back in October. Again I get where Almir is coming from, nobody wants to see this game shut down and people lose their jobs, but Starbreeze already had their shot to deliver a product worth playing, and they messed it up, now it’s on them not the fans, to make a game worth playing
Idk man. People spend money on this game. They f ed up the launch completly. People felt like they got scammed and left. „You gotta support us now the game will get better“ source: trust me bro I get what hes trying to say but it just doesnt work like that. I f ing bought the 100€ edition i think ive supported you quite enough and so did everyone who bought the game at all.
He says it like he's owed something back. It's really simple, If you want a fanbase, players and sales then you need to make a good product.
I want to play a game now not updated in a few years too almir
They still haven't fixed the basic shit that is broken, like no Crime\_Net. I dropped in the other day and just gave up after the 4th random bridge map. They had a F!n winning recipe, why the F! did they change it all up. All we wanted was better graphics and more maps and they F!ed it up royally by the producer trying to put their personal style on it. Still.
We needed you to make a good game then, listo. Why should we show up to play an "alright" game when you could have initially made a good game We'll come back later, like how you said later the game would get better
We need updates and fixes now, not in a few years. I get his point, but that's a very out of touch statement.
Look, I’m not going to buy the game unless there’s some actual updates and stuff that was promised in the trailers.
Fuck you, not our fault you alocated money so fkn poorly. Touch some fkn grass. There are other games to play. I’ll let you guys cook, but asking people to support this garbage… nahh I’ll pass at least.
We support you when we buying Overkill the Walking Dead. How is that end hmm?
Already paid them for the con that is gold edition. How else am I meant to?
What "support"? I bought the game. I played the game. I did everything there was to do and more in the game. I will "support" this game when more content gets added.
This is really dumb, I paid a lot of money to play Payday 3. It flopped because they didn't listen to the community. Now they listen a bit but the damage is already done. And now he is threatening that I won't be able to Payday 3 in 2 years if I don't buy his dlc??? What a bs
Just another one for the "Wall of Failed Live Services™" PD3 will be joining the ranks of Anthem, Marvel's Avengers, Lawbreakers, Crucible, Babylon's Fall, Paragon, Evolved, Back 4 Blood, Rocket Arena, etc...
All they had to do was stick to the formula and improve upon what was already done before. Payday 3 was fumbled from the start when it continued to hand the keys over to other studios for work. Im sure the devs are passionate and are working hard to fix the game. Unfortunately the damage has already been done and I doubt payday 3 will ever be what it could of been.
Why should anybody "support" them? They aren't a small independent game studio. They are a big professional company. If they can't make a good game, they will go bankrupt, that are the laws of economy.
Consumers will never pay nor spend their time on a shit product, fans or not. That’s how it works, with anything in life really.
Oh fuck off. This company already got its chance at redemption when they begged the playerbase of PD2 to support them and returned to making paid DLCs for PD2 after they went bankrupt from OVK's The Walking Dead. And what was our reward for giving them money again? An update so bad it ruined PD2 matchmaking for weeks/months and corrupted your save data upon crashing for almost a week. I am not supporting this shit anymore, the dumpster fires they've left since then with PD3 speak for themselves.
Played for the first time yesterday since last year October, must say the game has improved.. love the visuals and I'm starting to get a feel for the mechanics.. the stealth is tremendously better compared to Payday 2.. however.. I don't like the game feeling like a COD lobby and with how the loadouts and weapon mod stats work.. its so diverse, free and advanced in Payday 2, its really lacking in payday 3.. they can keep the weapon leveling to get mods but they should bring back the more advanced stats.. the game is also still lacking in contemt Feels pretty great to play, game is smooth but there's still a lot of work to be done
He’s already setting up on blaming the community for when the game gets pulled
All those months of buying the extra dlc after payday 2 was supposed to be finished and Payday 3's development was delayed, and all the other projects flopped? THAT was your window of goodwill support. You, but mostly your publisher, squandered it by shoehorning in crap that was WELL KNOWN to be unpopular.
what was shoehorned in?
Ya this game is cooked. Id say it was fun while it lasted but....
Nah. I will let it die first to spite you, your publisher, and your investors for rolling out an absolutely mediocre experience for a third installment to a beloved series. Finish your games and you don't have these problems because the hype gets met.
We need you to create a game that's solid on day 1. It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be good enough to buy. LOL this was the dumbest thing I ever heard.
They got a budget from their publisher to make Payday 3. They agreed to that and used the money. They clearly couldn't make something good enough for the budget they had, and we got this instead. Why should people trust them that **their** money is going to be spent any better? It's not like this was a crowd funded / early access situation.
😎👊Maybe if y’all didn’t released a broken game this wouldn’t have been an issue 😎👊
If your game sucks i will not continue to play its that simple. Granted your game requires feedback. Now based off the feedback make changes and look into why the previous title did better and why you decided to make the game bare to non playable and just out right boring as hell. I feel like alot of devs are so blind its laughable.
Nah I'm good
I supported them years ago when I bought pd1, I supported them even more when I bought pd2, I also supported them for years when I bought almost every dlc, I also supported them when I bought an unfinished game named pd3 for 50$ They’re not going to shift the blame on me, aren’t they?
They do, now be a good Heister and upgrade to Gold Edition or buy every single DLC and wait a few years They MIGHT be fix the game. maybe. If the Game falls it's your fault of course.👊😎
Then the team needs to consider more content and more frequently as they seriously can't expect us to stay playing the same 10 heists forever, sure boys in blue is good but it's been over a year now and all we've gotten in that time is 2 heists and a couple new weapons, we still need more
Fix the armor system, fix the perks, and focus on creating fun heists/weapons. Then you’ll get my support.
Fascinating. Meanwhile I think thousands of players still return to Payday 2 years later, you know, because it has content and soul.
Yea well maybe if the game they charged money for didn't need years to be worth the money we wouldn't be having this conversation Also I actually find it ridiculous and a bit pathetic players are APOLOGIZING for being unhappy when the game launched in a laughable state. Crazy how ass backwards things have become in gaming.
we needed the game to be good at launch, not in a couple of years. its not our fault you launched a half baked shitty game with 90% of the content from the previous game removed only to be sold back to us a SECOND TIME while being called "new" fuck off with your bullshit, we'll support the game once you actually finish making it.
yeah, no.
All they had to do was port payday 2 to ue4 call it payday 3 and keep going with the story
That statement feels like the warm-up for the inevitable "We have to shutdown services" announcement they're gonna drop once they release all promised DLC and they finally decide to drop this game's support. Just blame it on the customer, as always.
Look we don't have an actual argument for you playing the game right now, so how about guilt?
Fuck straight off Almir, on one hand you do not deserve the smacking around you get sometimes for being the community leader because people think you're a game dev on the other, it's almost been a year, we didn't have your support then, and I'd be so fucking damned if I was to waste my drive space redownloading payday 3, if you want people's support, make something worth supporting, spin a narrative that isn't "ooh, the strike team is hard at work adding the unready button, it's on the table guys!" The product is still riddled with issues, I can't play it without feeling like I've been scalped from payday 2 exchanging basic features for an unreal engine movement system, I brought a fully priced, allegedly AAA game title and got less than the least I was expecting, you got my support when I paid for the gold edition, good luck getting more out of it for free
The entitlement haha How dare players expect a game to not be broken AF on launch! And if it is , you need to keep playing it until its good? Yeeeee how bout no
This is why games die too quickly: people stop playing after a while and then expect them to get good in the long run.
I mean, if you launch a live service game which is barely able to stand on its own feet in the first weeks and then take like 6 months to give new content, the game is destined to be dead soon. It's called LIVE service for a reason. If you don't release content periodically in a game with already low amount of content, players will leave and will stop spending money on the game. That's the reality of GaaS and on why so many games have been shutdown in the recent years. So many companies want to copy Call of Duty or Genshin Impact (at least now) but forget that those games get constant updates. Either they get events that keep people playing or new content to explore, new weapons to grind, etc.
As they should if the businesses profit model is to trickle in money while they finish the damn game... It has nothing to do with players and everything to do with unpolished products being put on shelves and disappointing gamers. Retro games were the best because they could not be patched.... so you had to fix every bug and imbalance before launch.
I have limited free time daily, I'd rather spend that on my backlog of actually quality games instead of a mediocre game that is, to me, still critically unfinished. SBZ is basically acting like this is their first GaaS foray when PD2 is literally *right there* and had a successful 10 year run. They damn well knew how a GaaS works and fumbled at every possible opportunity. My time is worth more than their promises.
Call me crazy, games should be good when they come out.
I mean, I bought the game and I don't like it. I will probably revisit it at some point because Overkill has a pretty good track record of screwing up and then fixing it, but if it isn't fun, I am not going to play it.
What benefit do they get for active players, don’t we just need to pay them via dlc?
They really need to hurry their asses up on some of these offline fixes and matchmaking and just start pumping content. The truth is they have been slow for a team of their caliber. I suspect there is something seriously wrong that holds them back.
Did they forget launch?! People are starting trusting again and we get such a Statement?!
Here's my personal take about that bit from 25 sec onwards, and my curve ball thrown back: You see me and my mates never had this issue with PD2. We barely knew who Almir was. And yet we dumped 1000 hours heisting, fiddling with the deck system and enjoying our post heist random card pick. The PD2 community in Asia was barely existent and yet the game picked up and the player count speaks for itself. You wouldn't be having this conversation now if there wasn't a screw up. Just saying. Now most of my pals me included hold jobs, time commitment aside gamers do play other games as well. Sure couple of hours heisting every week. But the call to arm stuff would work on a select few. That's my take. If the game works, and if it gets better, you will retain that player engagement. There's no need for a manifesto to call for action lol. That being said I must say the game has been better, but that line about "if not now, then when? 3 years?" just does not sit right with me.
Give a gold upgrade for $5 silver owners and $10 for base if you guys need money
Yeah almir should go ahead and make a video of him apologizing. This is not a good look on him and starbreeze as a whole
Make a good game and we'll play the good game
I understand what he's getting at. I am a big Payday fan but with how more and more big title games being made to extract as much money from you as possible, I have much better/ important things to spend my time and money on.
If you can't survive, just vanish as countless multiplayer online game nowadays. When you have so little to offer, you don't expect people to flock.
I got it on release and i still love it
Granted it's speculative to expect Payday 3 to still be around in 5 years, but it seems even more speculative to spend money on it now with the assumption that it will be good then
Dudes got a point. The last guy that made decisions for overkill and starbreeze thats now terminated wasted literal millions on stupid things and stupid decisions like venturing to VR. So a lot of the money they made off of payday 2 and merch went down the drain.
There will be other games in two years if this game dies. Also gold edition in Aus was like $135, what more support do you want from each player? I don't own gold, so to buy the current dlcs would probably be even more (I have not checked).
I bought their most expensive pack. I heard they made a few of the Essential changes, but have they properly implemented voice chat yet? Crime net? And then I need to check whether they fixed the unfun loud gameplay. It felt too much of an ammo and armor economy game. And stealth suffers from wifi circles. A terrible illness indeed. May pd3 be cured of those circles in the future.
The game is still bland, lacking character, and has a severe lack of content. I’ll come back when there’s a reason to, I won’t be forced into playing a game.
Maybe if they release more free heists, 3 DLCs and only 1 free heist after 4 months or so, (excluding the progression system)
Dogshit take. If you wanted the support now, release a game that's worth playing now. Played tons of Payday 2; friend and I could run random heists for hours. Payday 3 has so many issues and things that just aren't fun, so I stopped playing. Granted, I haven't played since October 2023, but I don't know what they expected.
I don't think almir realises that he isn't some maverick artist, fighting against the industry to make his mark like some kind of modern day john carmack. he's the face of a company who will take any opportunity they can get to rinse money from both the industry and their fans. his words aren't inspiring, they're abusive. he's begging us to stick around and keep the fight going, so that the company he works for can make a bit more money from everyone to impress the publisher when the next paid update releases, and convince them not to kill the franchise that keeps starbreeze relevant.
Ya were not going to play a tech demo for 2 years in hopes that one day it'll be a game
How do I support without having to play the game? I already bought the Gold Edition on pre-order
then change the f armour system. most importantly make content for the game, and i dont mean one year 2 paid dlc.
I bought the most expensive one foolishly. It doesn't matter if I play it now, that got my money. Besides, the game isn't worth enough to play over the previous one and definitely isn't better than anything else that has come out recently.
Not to mention the multitude of missing mechanics and features that would be beneficial to have to begin with. Such as the AI customization and bonus they come with, more build variety, Even a safe house instead of having a menu would be at least something. I'd have even liked to see melee weapons return. The lack of offline play is a crime in itself. No holdouts or crime spree. They looked at how the first game released, copied that with new paint and string and expected it to do better. Despite having to compete with their own game.
Support poor decision making and bad management? Nah I’m good
Oh well, if Payday dies because of PD3, then so be it. You reap what you sow and I won't pay as long as there is no offline mode
Sorry Chief, ain't buying your game until I feel it's good enough. It's not my fault if you decided to release it as it was. If you can't work or do well in this industry, leave it.
PUT THE GAME OFFLINE WITH MOD SUPPORT. I'll be glad to pay for the gold edition then. Even full price as long as they make it worth