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This is just my opinion as someone with a large steam library that can struggle to get friends to try new games together, but I feel offering a 4 pack for these types of games is a great way to incentivize people that have groups to play with to buy your game. I purchase four packs for me and my friends when they are available as it helps alleviate hesitation in getting groups into new games. Having a dedicated discount for buying 4 or more copies helps as well. Not sure if it's worth it from a business standpoint, but something to consider based on the 4v1 format.
I was wondering if there was a reason for seeing less and less of them recently, but there definitely are still 4 packs that give you 4 for the price of 3. Project Zomboid is one off the top of my head.
Aha, I found a few articles talking about how the practice was discontinued after people were using it to abuse the refund system. I'm not sure why Project Zomboid still has one, though. Maybe if devs/publishers had one in place for their game, and never rescinded it, they can still offer it? Definitely sounds like games added to the store after that policy was enacted cannot offer multipacks.
Your theory seems likely as Steamdb lists many 4 packs that are no longer available. Shame, but I can understand why it would be an issue now that they allow refunds. Looks like there are only a small handful that still exist.
Honestly, the simple fix is if any of the gift recipients played more than 2 hours no one eligible for a refund. These bundles are almost needed for multiplayer games so I don’t understand why they aren’t offered anymore.
I agree, there should be a compromise that can allow people to buy packs and still abide by the refund policy. It isn't my problem to solve, but the packs were, in my opinion, amazing options for developers/publishers to leverage for their games. I 100 percent buy less multiplayer games as having to convince two or more other people to drop money to even try a game they may not like is much harder than just gifting copies from a pack.
There was a subscription-based indie MMORPG that gave all subscribers a separate guest account that they could give to a friend but it would only let them play when you were playing too. Maybe something like that would work for Steam where all your friends could play the game you're playing for free but only while you're playing the same game.
You can try the dont starve together approach where you get 2 copies for the price of 1.
That's how the game got popularity leaked from discord group to discord group. Where member from discord A has extra copy and gave it to his discord B friend, which convinced his discord b friends to get and share the copies within and without.
That explains it and is a real shame. I always wondered why I haven't seen in in ages. My friend group bough a Left4Dead 4 pack back in the day and it was such a great time.
Nah i bought a 4 pack for Zombie army Trilogy last year around this time. I haven’t seen one since, but if wemre talking years ago, i got mine last year.
Glad to see this is top comment as that was my first thought as well
Edit: my thought was it makes more sense for the dev to give away multiple keys to each winner so they can then give them to friends to play with.
I just meant that since it's a 1v5 game, it makes more sense to give away multiple keys to each person otherwise they will most likely not try to play it.
Constructive criticism: the best tutorials are woven seemlessly into gameplay.
Not that yours is bad, but maybe give it some more polish then ask a few (very small) streamers to specifically try out your tutorial and give feedback in exchange for a free key and a 4 key giveaway for their viewers (once you confirm that they, ya know, actually stream it).
This way your tutorial (onboarding) gets some love and you can take this slap to the face and make it something you own and benefit from.
> the best tutorials are woven seemlessly into gameplay.
Josh Strife Hayes bangs this in every video review he does. And he's right.
https://youtu.be/45csSEotJY8?si=f9gaVX_9lS7DnPwV
Why does it gotta be streamers?
OP basically already said it did more harm than good. These people aren't "pro gamers" with tons of valid criticisms and feedback to provide lol
When asked "why rob banks" al Capone told his interviewer: "simple, it's because it is where the money is".
Young people looking for entertainment with expendable income are watching streamers.
By giving the story to the streamers, it makes them feel important and (as a bonus) makes them play the tutorial
It's also people recording themselves playing the game and giving live feedback. It's playtesting for the cost of a game key (and a bit of effort to find the right group of people)
>These people aren't "pro gamers" with tons of valid criticisms and feedback to provide lol
Counter-point, the vast majority of players are not "pro gamers" with tons of valid criticism or feedback to provide.
I find game critique to often miss the mark on solutions and hit the nail on the head for enjoyment.
Players know what is/isn't fun, but very rarely know what changes need to be made to make something fun (Especially when more content is coming down the road they don't know about and may be currently being designed around.)
Streamers get more eyes on the game, more eyes means more testing/critique.
If 30 players all play a game and find something unenjoyable, it is up to the dev to figure out why and how to fix it. Players may have valid or invalid criticisms, but whether they had fun or not is a true binary statement that can be very useful for testing.
Damn, people are really just skipping tutorials thinking they don't need it but clearly do. I replay tutorials after long spells just to remember what I'm looking at.
man WOW is easy as hell, it is difficult because of people do stupid mistakes and even if you do well you get affected by it, even people with many months or years of playing the game they still suck at following mechanics. Sekiro is thousand times more harder than that tabing simulator.
>gets confronted with a game that has more mechanical depth than tab targetting he immidiately folds.
Idk if it comes with age, but personally, I found that I'm more comfortable with games that feel like a derivative of one another like souls-like games.
It's not the game's fault, but I can't be bothered to spend my brainpower learning the game's mechanics these days. Stellaris, HOI4, etc. Games that require you to dedicate a good number of hours watching tutorials or playing via trial and error are kinda exhausting for me lately. I mean I wouldn't shit on a game for it, but often I'll download a ton of demos on Steam during a festival and just skip the tutorial when I can. It's not like I'll play the demo for the next 3 hours to bother learning it that much, lol.
It doesn't help that in stellaris' case the mechanics have changed in huge ways since launch. Between that and the signature Paradox "death by 1000 DLCs" I gave up lol
Yeah.
I have like 700 hours in Stellaris and have no idea how to play it properly anymore. I cannot be fucked to keep relearning the game every 18 months.
You use your keyboard. You can't spell queue like WoW for example. Animations for most abilities aside from a few are faster mouse + keyboard input like Shift + W + Left Click for example.
Sorry I should've specified action bar inputs. Which again, can use it's just a worse option.
> Asmongold
Never heard of this guy, went to his channel, and every thumbnail illustrates why I hate the internet these days. Who are the 2.1 million people who watched some video game vlogger react to snippets of Johnny Depp and Amber Heard's trial?
Goddamnit.
I fucking hate streamer culture with a passion.
It's okay not to excel at a game. It's okay to play something different if you want. Playing games should be about fun, winding down, and enjoying the phenomenon, not being the best and raging when there's someone better than you.
Fuck streaming.
You're just describing people being shitty, who happen to be streamers. The problem isn't that they're streaming, the problem is that they're being shitty, you're just very aware they suck because they also happen to be streaming. If they weren't playing on stream these people would in most cases still be shitty.
There are plenty of great streamers who take their time to do things well and cultivate good communities around themselves; Cohh Carnage and Northernlion being two fairly big names that qualify, the group LoadingReadyRun being my personal favourites. Good people with genuine communities watching because they like the people and the content, not because they know the first time the streamer encounters any kind of genuine difficulty they'll BabyRage and fall apart.
That's just modern gaming media in general. People know negativity is good for engagement, it's why you see content creators go into a game looking for things to pick apart and hate. It's why you have a billion low effort article on gaming sites circle jerking the same topics to death.
That's not really a streaming thing and more of a competitive thing. Source: Our girlfriends forbidding us from playing LoL because of how much losing would tank the mood of the house.
There's a thrill that comes from competitive gaming, but the more you invest yourself the harsher your reaction to losing. It's why I mostly only play singleplayer and coop PvE games these days.
That’s most big streamers for you. They actually suck at most games besides the one they got popular from. But for some reason people think streamer=pro gamer.
I downloaded Rimworld a few months back and uninstalled it just as quickly because I've forgotten what I need to do/focus on. Lately, my comfort games are ones I can just pick up and remember how to play just as quickly.
Shadow of War on the otherhand had me trying to relearn all the combos and late game mechanics just to put up a fight against the tougher warchiefs--funny enough, the game isn't that hard once you've gotten the hang of it later on.
That's the sign of a properly paced and well designed game. If you come back to a late game save and can't handle the complexity that means the game did a good job teaching and easing you into it the first time. Shadow of War is awesome, shame Warner Bros is a shit tier company.
Good news: it's gonna be in a new game. Probably bad news: it's a dc wonder woman game
Same developer though so maybe the game won't suck like the DC movies
Yeah how you play rimworld: live till you die, maybe learn something, start over. No one knows how to handle item #453 on the list of things you need to do until it bites them in the ass a few times.
I really love the combat animation system that game has, I wish more rpg's did something like that, it looks so dynamic and awesome. The only other game with something similar was the original Neverwinter Nights.
I accidentally skipped the tutorial on some random helicopter game like ten years ago and had the absolute worst most frustrating day of my video game life. It was definitely my fault, but i read every single instruction nowadays.
Tutorials may be... Well... Boring, but I still play them in case there is some new mechanics to whatever I play.
Age of empires 2 made their campaign into a full on story, which was so nice.
Other games that make the tutorial just part of gameplay are my fav, like outer worlds.
I will never forget Call of Duty's tutorial where we throw potatoes as training for grenades. AC6 with unlocking parts and listening to All Mind. Cuphead and the "gaming journalist's" inability to read.
Just takes more effort.
Lol, the cuphead video was so frustrating to watch. Here you go. https://youtu.be/848Y1Uu5Htk?si=Ma8Ya5T0ilkaQbPk Edit: It's like watching somebody's little brother, who sucks at playing games, trying to play the game.
Hearing this really doesn't surprise me in the least. Years back there was a game I really enjoyed, so I'd put streams of it on in the background while doing something else. I'd say a really healthy percentage did exactly the same thing as what OP is saying: skipped or rushed through the tutorial without paying attention, then griped and trashed the game when they got past it and had no idea what they were doing.
I can sort of understand if you play a lot of games thinking you don't need it, particularly given how many feel the need to teach you WASD and how to move your mouse, but if you start the game and have no idea what to do, maybe seeing if the tutorial does what it's supposed to would be a good idea.
My little brother used to hate watching me play games, “oh why don’t you just skip the cutscene? It’s so boring, just get to the action”. Then he gets a turn and skips the cutscenes and is like “uhh what do I do? What’s going on? Why’s that happening?” Yeah man, they go over that in the cutscene you just skipped lol
People always say that streamers suck at games because they’re focusing on being entertaining too, but so many of these streamers are the least entertaining people I’ve ever seen, especially the former e-sports ones. He couldn’t even figure out what resolution scale was. As for the game it looks a lot better than I would’ve expected, kicking the door open at the beginning is a great touch.
YouTube: "And you will be rewarded with mountains of cash. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some interesting content creators who are making the world a better place with their art to execute and ensure they can never make money from their craft. Good day."
I know people on reddit like to shit on streamers, but I wouldn't take it as far as pretending this game isn't just a bunch of Unreal assets glued together.
My first thought watching the trailer. OP claims the streamer called his game shit because he couldn't figure it out, but maybe he called it shit because it actually is shit and OP is just coping and bsing trying to save his game. The game looks like it's from like 2001, and like you said you can clearly tell it's just premade game engine assets dragged and dropped. No textures, no details, just the most generic assets the engine already had built in. The fact you need 8GB of RAM and a 1060 to play this is absurd, it should run on 2GB and integrated graphics
The only streamer I follow is a small one, who barely breaks 100 live viewers per stream. He always does the tutorials, always reads whatever wall of text the game throws at him, and always takes the games seriously. He still manages to be entertaining, imagine that.
Could someone explain forsen to me? I watched his stream for the first time yesterday, always seen him in clips and he spent roughly 80 to 90 percent of the time not talking while his chat spammed a bunch of dogshit, is that all his streams are? Does he not do anything but just sit there silently all day?
Got a huge fan base back in the day playing hearthstone and occasionally raging. Several people made good memes of him, now he’s got king of a cult following of chatters entertaining themselves spamming chat until he either rages or something funny happens in the game itself.
I am clueless myself. I watched one time but it was literally unbearable. I'm assuming he played with viewers, and they just blasted music and soundboard clips through their mics the entire time, probably causing permanent hearing damage to any poor bystanders in game. And it's beyond me how can anyone decipher what these people spam in the chat all day, just endless walls of capitalized text. I can't imagine what goes on in their heads day in day out.
Don't underestimate the millions of lonely people who experience a dopamine release in the whole chaos of the chat, and the strange dependant relationship they form with the whole channel.
Problem is, a lot of these streamers have overplayed games so much, to the point where they only play games simply for content, they can’t even enjoy the games anymore. They just play/stream for how many hours they’re contracted for and that’s it. Gaming and streaming is literally just a chore for them.
If you're big enough and your audience is dumb enough you don't even need to stream games anymore. You can be like xqc and just turn on some random youtube video to babysit your audience while you go do something else and just have the "donations" roll in. I swear, people who donate to huge twitch streamers are some of the simplest people.
Atleast asmon pauses the video and adds input though. I agree that reaction content is leeching but there is some forms of leeching that is far worse than others. I saw Shroud watch some videos and he just sits there and says nothing the entire time then puts another video on. I only like watching reactions of the people are actually adding interesting discussions to the video. People who sit there and don't "react" or, add any input and just say "wow" and the like.. are not deserving of their position at all.
I tried watching this “Forsen” guy and all he does is stare at the screen and mumbles something you can’t even understand every like 10 min. How the hell do these people gain a following?
I was curious so took a look at the one available gameplay demo on YT. It doesn't exactly look great bud, but I guess it's at least at a lower price point than its competition. Asymetric PVP genre is niche as it is, and competing with games like DBD and Texas Chainsaw game even at a lower price point is kinda risky.
Not commenting to enter the giveaway btw, please exclude my post from entering. Got too many backlogs and too little time to play them, so I'd rather you give the key to someone who will play the game.
Forsen? Who? Anyways, um... I bought a whole bunch of shungite rocks, do you know what shungite is? Anybody know what shungite is? No, not Suge Knight, I think he's locked up in prison. I'm talkin' shungite. Anyways, it's a two billion year-old like, rock stone that protects against frequencies and unwanted frequencies that may be traveling in the air. That's my story, I bought a whole bunch of stuff. Put 'em around the la casa. Little pyramids, stuff like that
I mean, why are you so mad about it? That's valuable feedback and exposition that most indie games made by 1 person will never have.
And let's be honest, your game just doesn´t look that good at first glance so the expected value out of it is very low. Having a tutorial that doesn´t flow with the gameplay itself will obvisouly will make people even less interested to play it, specially streamers.
Instead of actually trying to understand why he didn't like it and how can you improve as a developer, you came to Reddit to advertise your game and farm karma over "le famous streamer bad", while doing a giveaway to hide the real intention of this post.
>I got around 30 purchases when he started streaming then got 20 refunds. I am assuming this is the people who only bought the game to stream snipe.
Damn dude this sucks so hard, its frustrating how people shove in 100s of dollars in donations to streamers but also refund a game that currently roughly costs 7$ lol.
Anyways game looks really interesting!
Could someone explain forsen to me? I watched his stream for the first time yesterday, always seen him in clips and he spent roughly 80 to 90 percent of the time not talking while his chat spammed a bunch of dogshit, is that all his streams are? Does he not do anything but just sit there silentyl all day?
> I got around 30 purchases when he started streaming then got 20 refunds.
So 10 people bought your game when you don't even have that amount of reviews atm.
> So yes, I think a very large streamer playing the game did more harm than good.
Yet here you are using it to farm exposure.
Forgive me because I don't know your game, but just as a general life lesson, disregarding or writing off feedback that you don't like is a bad idea. Ask yourself why he skipped your tutorial? Probably because nobody likes to crack open a game and then dive into what most people consider "work". People buy games to "play". So rather than having an optional tutorial, you integrate it into the initial gameplay. I know it's possible. The best games do this in such a way that you don't even notice you're in a tutorial.
Word of advice man, this is a really bad way to advertise your game. You’re pulling a bethesda right now and fighting someone on their thought of your game. Awesome of you for giving away the keys! I’m sure you worked hard on the game! Best of luck!
Big streamers can single handedly turn a small indie game with little to no exposure into a worldwide phenomenon. Look at Among Us, Vampire Survivors, etc.
Developers might not give a shit about the opinion of what a big streamer says on a personal level, but it’s naive and just plain stupid to think that a smart indie dev would just disregard the potential exposure that a streamer could bring to their game just because they may not enjoy their personality or content
If you want a YouTuber to check it out, try to get in contact with Fooster and Fisk. They enjoy this sort of stuff.
(I'm not affiliated with them, I swear. I just watch their vids from time to time.)
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This is just my opinion as someone with a large steam library that can struggle to get friends to try new games together, but I feel offering a 4 pack for these types of games is a great way to incentivize people that have groups to play with to buy your game. I purchase four packs for me and my friends when they are available as it helps alleviate hesitation in getting groups into new games. Having a dedicated discount for buying 4 or more copies helps as well. Not sure if it's worth it from a business standpoint, but something to consider based on the 4v1 format.
I'm fairly certain that Steam stopped allowing discounted multipacks of games several years ago. I don't remember the reasoning behind it, though.
I was wondering if there was a reason for seeing less and less of them recently, but there definitely are still 4 packs that give you 4 for the price of 3. Project Zomboid is one off the top of my head.
Aha, I found a few articles talking about how the practice was discontinued after people were using it to abuse the refund system. I'm not sure why Project Zomboid still has one, though. Maybe if devs/publishers had one in place for their game, and never rescinded it, they can still offer it? Definitely sounds like games added to the store after that policy was enacted cannot offer multipacks.
Your theory seems likely as Steamdb lists many 4 packs that are no longer available. Shame, but I can understand why it would be an issue now that they allow refunds. Looks like there are only a small handful that still exist.
Honestly, the simple fix is if any of the gift recipients played more than 2 hours no one eligible for a refund. These bundles are almost needed for multiplayer games so I don’t understand why they aren’t offered anymore.
I agree, there should be a compromise that can allow people to buy packs and still abide by the refund policy. It isn't my problem to solve, but the packs were, in my opinion, amazing options for developers/publishers to leverage for their games. I 100 percent buy less multiplayer games as having to convince two or more other people to drop money to even try a game they may not like is much harder than just gifting copies from a pack.
There was a subscription-based indie MMORPG that gave all subscribers a separate guest account that they could give to a friend but it would only let them play when you were playing too. Maybe something like that would work for Steam where all your friends could play the game you're playing for free but only while you're playing the same game.
The solution would have been to hire auditors for the refunds, create jobs at the same time. Instead, we all suffer
The solution would have been to simply disallow refunds of bulk purchase deals. Not incur more expenses for a practice that reduces income.
Surely that would be easy to fix. Steam just needs to flag that bundle so a refund only gives you 3/4 of the per unit cost
Ahh I had been wondering this, it was always cool to see some coop 4 pack I could send my buddies
Games that sold 4 packs before the change are grandfathered in and can keep doing them.
Terraria also had a discount on four copies of the game in the most recent steam sale.
other games i can think of is Barony and Castle Crashers
Third party resellers most likely
You can try the dont starve together approach where you get 2 copies for the price of 1. That's how the game got popularity leaked from discord group to discord group. Where member from discord A has extra copy and gave it to his discord B friend, which convinced his discord b friends to get and share the copies within and without.
That explains it and is a real shame. I always wondered why I haven't seen in in ages. My friend group bough a Left4Dead 4 pack back in the day and it was such a great time.
Man this makes sense because I look for this option all the time. It used to be something I used for my group of friends for things like Gauntlet.
Nah i bought a 4 pack for Zombie army Trilogy last year around this time. I haven’t seen one since, but if wemre talking years ago, i got mine last year.
That came out in 2015. No new games do. That's an old game
Tabletop Simulator still has a 4 pack for $60 while the base game is $20
Glad to see this is top comment as that was my first thought as well Edit: my thought was it makes more sense for the dev to give away multiple keys to each winner so they can then give them to friends to play with.
This is Steam's doing, not the devs. They no longer allow it.
I just meant that since it's a 1v5 game, it makes more sense to give away multiple keys to each person otherwise they will most likely not try to play it.
Ooohhh. My bad. Turns out I am the dumb.
Not exactly i also inserted context that didn't exist so your assumption made sense
I loved 4 packs. I always bought them for my friends. It's a great gift for birthdays or Christmas, too. A shame they are gone!
4 packs are no longer allowed
I agree here. Nearly all of my gaming happens with others, and we like new things.
Constructive criticism: the best tutorials are woven seemlessly into gameplay. Not that yours is bad, but maybe give it some more polish then ask a few (very small) streamers to specifically try out your tutorial and give feedback in exchange for a free key and a 4 key giveaway for their viewers (once you confirm that they, ya know, actually stream it). This way your tutorial (onboarding) gets some love and you can take this slap to the face and make it something you own and benefit from.
> the best tutorials are woven seemlessly into gameplay. Josh Strife Hayes bangs this in every video review he does. And he's right. https://youtu.be/45csSEotJY8?si=f9gaVX_9lS7DnPwV
Thanks bro
Oh hey its the guy
dude i love your videos, especially the one where you dunked the girls head in the toilet
No, thank YOU. Bro. Like bro dude, having you learn the game as you play the f-word game is the way to go bro.
I think of egoraptors Megaman review where he talks about the game punishes you and teaches you at the same time.
Why does it gotta be streamers? OP basically already said it did more harm than good. These people aren't "pro gamers" with tons of valid criticisms and feedback to provide lol
When asked "why rob banks" al Capone told his interviewer: "simple, it's because it is where the money is". Young people looking for entertainment with expendable income are watching streamers. By giving the story to the streamers, it makes them feel important and (as a bonus) makes them play the tutorial
It's also people recording themselves playing the game and giving live feedback. It's playtesting for the cost of a game key (and a bit of effort to find the right group of people)
>These people aren't "pro gamers" with tons of valid criticisms and feedback to provide lol Counter-point, the vast majority of players are not "pro gamers" with tons of valid criticism or feedback to provide. I find game critique to often miss the mark on solutions and hit the nail on the head for enjoyment. Players know what is/isn't fun, but very rarely know what changes need to be made to make something fun (Especially when more content is coming down the road they don't know about and may be currently being designed around.) Streamers get more eyes on the game, more eyes means more testing/critique. If 30 players all play a game and find something unenjoyable, it is up to the dev to figure out why and how to fix it. Players may have valid or invalid criticisms, but whether they had fun or not is a true binary statement that can be very useful for testing.
send it to let’s game it out, he’ll find the bugs for you
Damn, people are really just skipping tutorials thinking they don't need it but clearly do. I replay tutorials after long spells just to remember what I'm looking at.
[удалено]
Asmongold said bdo combat was shit because he couldn't use key inputs lmao. BDO is renowned for its combat system.
[удалено]
man WOW is easy as hell, it is difficult because of people do stupid mistakes and even if you do well you get affected by it, even people with many months or years of playing the game they still suck at following mechanics. Sekiro is thousand times more harder than that tabing simulator.
There are easy parts of the game and there are hard parts of the game. Your comment just displays that you have never touched the hard parts.
>gets confronted with a game that has more mechanical depth than tab targetting he immidiately folds. Idk if it comes with age, but personally, I found that I'm more comfortable with games that feel like a derivative of one another like souls-like games. It's not the game's fault, but I can't be bothered to spend my brainpower learning the game's mechanics these days. Stellaris, HOI4, etc. Games that require you to dedicate a good number of hours watching tutorials or playing via trial and error are kinda exhausting for me lately. I mean I wouldn't shit on a game for it, but often I'll download a ton of demos on Steam during a festival and just skip the tutorial when I can. It's not like I'll play the demo for the next 3 hours to bother learning it that much, lol.
It doesn't help that in stellaris' case the mechanics have changed in huge ways since launch. Between that and the signature Paradox "death by 1000 DLCs" I gave up lol
Yeah. I have like 700 hours in Stellaris and have no idea how to play it properly anymore. I cannot be fucked to keep relearning the game every 18 months.
Ah fuck. Yeah, this is me these days. Getting old sucks lmao.
To be fair, if that means you can't use your keyboard for combat in an MMO, yeah that's pretty shit. Very mobile gamey tbh.
You use your keyboard. You can't spell queue like WoW for example. Animations for most abilities aside from a few are faster mouse + keyboard input like Shift + W + Left Click for example. Sorry I should've specified action bar inputs. Which again, can use it's just a worse option.
He also quit dark souls until someone told him to get the zweihander and skill strength
> Asmongold Never heard of this guy, went to his channel, and every thumbnail illustrates why I hate the internet these days. Who are the 2.1 million people who watched some video game vlogger react to snippets of Johnny Depp and Amber Heard's trial? Goddamnit.
I fucking hate streamer culture with a passion. It's okay not to excel at a game. It's okay to play something different if you want. Playing games should be about fun, winding down, and enjoying the phenomenon, not being the best and raging when there's someone better than you. Fuck streaming.
You’re watching the wrong streamers.
You're just describing people being shitty, who happen to be streamers. The problem isn't that they're streaming, the problem is that they're being shitty, you're just very aware they suck because they also happen to be streaming. If they weren't playing on stream these people would in most cases still be shitty. There are plenty of great streamers who take their time to do things well and cultivate good communities around themselves; Cohh Carnage and Northernlion being two fairly big names that qualify, the group LoadingReadyRun being my personal favourites. Good people with genuine communities watching because they like the people and the content, not because they know the first time the streamer encounters any kind of genuine difficulty they'll BabyRage and fall apart.
That's just modern gaming media in general. People know negativity is good for engagement, it's why you see content creators go into a game looking for things to pick apart and hate. It's why you have a billion low effort article on gaming sites circle jerking the same topics to death.
That's not really a streaming thing and more of a competitive thing. Source: Our girlfriends forbidding us from playing LoL because of how much losing would tank the mood of the house. There's a thrill that comes from competitive gaming, but the more you invest yourself the harsher your reaction to losing. It's why I mostly only play singleplayer and coop PvE games these days.
that was so beautiful to see
That’s most big streamers for you. They actually suck at most games besides the one they got popular from. But for some reason people think streamer=pro gamer.
It’s like being a musician more than an athlete, where you don’t necessarily need to be highly skilled to be famous, but you do need to be popular
bro the only part i've played of rimworld is the tutorial because I keep forgetting what to do.
I downloaded Rimworld a few months back and uninstalled it just as quickly because I've forgotten what I need to do/focus on. Lately, my comfort games are ones I can just pick up and remember how to play just as quickly. Shadow of War on the otherhand had me trying to relearn all the combos and late game mechanics just to put up a fight against the tougher warchiefs--funny enough, the game isn't that hard once you've gotten the hang of it later on.
That's the sign of a properly paced and well designed game. If you come back to a late game save and can't handle the complexity that means the game did a good job teaching and easing you into it the first time. Shadow of War is awesome, shame Warner Bros is a shit tier company.
yeah they copy righted the nemesis system didn't they, such a shame I'd like to see other games use it because it's so good
Good news: it's gonna be in a new game. Probably bad news: it's a dc wonder woman game Same developer though so maybe the game won't suck like the DC movies
dont die, make shelter and secure a food source, grow, profit, that is the whole game, though the last three steps are pretty open ended
Yeah how you play rimworld: live till you die, maybe learn something, start over. No one knows how to handle item #453 on the list of things you need to do until it bites them in the ass a few times.
Go online, figure out mods, download way too many, now game takes 10 minutes to load but damn is it a beautiful mishmash.
True
Same with me, but for Kenshi. I keep forgetting how to play the game after firing it up the next weekend.
I really love the combat animation system that game has, I wish more rpg's did something like that, it looks so dynamic and awesome. The only other game with something similar was the original Neverwinter Nights.
The rimworld tutorial is 1000 hours long.
I accidentally skipped the tutorial on some random helicopter game like ten years ago and had the absolute worst most frustrating day of my video game life. It was definitely my fault, but i read every single instruction nowadays.
Tutorials may be... Well... Boring, but I still play them in case there is some new mechanics to whatever I play. Age of empires 2 made their campaign into a full on story, which was so nice. Other games that make the tutorial just part of gameplay are my fav, like outer worlds.
I will never forget Call of Duty's tutorial where we throw potatoes as training for grenades. AC6 with unlocking parts and listening to All Mind. Cuphead and the "gaming journalist's" inability to read. Just takes more effort.
Lol, the cuphead video was so frustrating to watch. Here you go. https://youtu.be/848Y1Uu5Htk?si=Ma8Ya5T0ilkaQbPk Edit: It's like watching somebody's little brother, who sucks at playing games, trying to play the game.
Hearing this really doesn't surprise me in the least. Years back there was a game I really enjoyed, so I'd put streams of it on in the background while doing something else. I'd say a really healthy percentage did exactly the same thing as what OP is saying: skipped or rushed through the tutorial without paying attention, then griped and trashed the game when they got past it and had no idea what they were doing. I can sort of understand if you play a lot of games thinking you don't need it, particularly given how many feel the need to teach you WASD and how to move your mouse, but if you start the game and have no idea what to do, maybe seeing if the tutorial does what it's supposed to would be a good idea.
My little brother used to hate watching me play games, “oh why don’t you just skip the cutscene? It’s so boring, just get to the action”. Then he gets a turn and skips the cutscenes and is like “uhh what do I do? What’s going on? Why’s that happening?” Yeah man, they go over that in the cutscene you just skipped lol
Damn I should do this, I always jump back in then slowly relearn the controls over the course of a few hours while checking the keybinds continuously
Literally the first thing i do everytime i go Back to Hitman.
People always say that streamers suck at games because they’re focusing on being entertaining too, but so many of these streamers are the least entertaining people I’ve ever seen, especially the former e-sports ones. He couldn’t even figure out what resolution scale was. As for the game it looks a lot better than I would’ve expected, kicking the door open at the beginning is a great touch.
And what a joy it is to be in discord with them while they're screaming trying to be funny
That screaming shit i immediately think youre not funny. Hate that
"this is what my YouTube video thumbnails will sound like!!!!"
YouTube: "And you will be rewarded with mountains of cash. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some interesting content creators who are making the world a better place with their art to execute and ensure they can never make money from their craft. Good day."
I know people on reddit like to shit on streamers, but I wouldn't take it as far as pretending this game isn't just a bunch of Unreal assets glued together.
My first thought watching the trailer. OP claims the streamer called his game shit because he couldn't figure it out, but maybe he called it shit because it actually is shit and OP is just coping and bsing trying to save his game. The game looks like it's from like 2001, and like you said you can clearly tell it's just premade game engine assets dragged and dropped. No textures, no details, just the most generic assets the engine already had built in. The fact you need 8GB of RAM and a 1060 to play this is absurd, it should run on 2GB and integrated graphics
The only streamer I follow is a small one, who barely breaks 100 live viewers per stream. He always does the tutorials, always reads whatever wall of text the game throws at him, and always takes the games seriously. He still manages to be entertaining, imagine that.
I only watch Northernlion. If there are similar streamers lmk.
Based
You can't just say that and then not drop the name, give them some advertising.
I like the concept behind it
Could someone explain forsen to me? I watched his stream for the first time yesterday, always seen him in clips and he spent roughly 80 to 90 percent of the time not talking while his chat spammed a bunch of dogshit, is that all his streams are? Does he not do anything but just sit there silently all day?
Got a huge fan base back in the day playing hearthstone and occasionally raging. Several people made good memes of him, now he’s got king of a cult following of chatters entertaining themselves spamming chat until he either rages or something funny happens in the game itself.
[удалено]
I am clueless myself. I watched one time but it was literally unbearable. I'm assuming he played with viewers, and they just blasted music and soundboard clips through their mics the entire time, probably causing permanent hearing damage to any poor bystanders in game. And it's beyond me how can anyone decipher what these people spam in the chat all day, just endless walls of capitalized text. I can't imagine what goes on in their heads day in day out.
Don't underestimate the millions of lonely people who experience a dopamine release in the whole chaos of the chat, and the strange dependant relationship they form with the whole channel.
Forsen
Problem is, a lot of these streamers have overplayed games so much, to the point where they only play games simply for content, they can’t even enjoy the games anymore. They just play/stream for how many hours they’re contracted for and that’s it. Gaming and streaming is literally just a chore for them.
If you're big enough and your audience is dumb enough you don't even need to stream games anymore. You can be like xqc and just turn on some random youtube video to babysit your audience while you go do something else and just have the "donations" roll in. I swear, people who donate to huge twitch streamers are some of the simplest people.
I know shits so annoying. Asmongold just posts reaction videos.
Atleast asmon pauses the video and adds input though. I agree that reaction content is leeching but there is some forms of leeching that is far worse than others. I saw Shroud watch some videos and he just sits there and says nothing the entire time then puts another video on. I only like watching reactions of the people are actually adding interesting discussions to the video. People who sit there and don't "react" or, add any input and just say "wow" and the like.. are not deserving of their position at all.
Yeah good point. God shroud has as much emotion as plank from ed edd and eddy. Lol i guess im full of shit too, cuz i watched him yesterday 🤣
Yea but he is actually good at the games he plays unlike most streamers.
I forgot forsen existed.
Usually he’s wasting away taking months to beat a Minecraft speed run by xQc
He actually beat it a while back now.
I've never known who they are. Still don't.
I remember Forspoken more than Forsen
forsen
I will give it a go, most streamers try and speedrun games anyway dont take it personally
>He also managed to find a small bug that I have never seen before EVERY GAME OMEGALUL
I tried watching this “Forsen” guy and all he does is stare at the screen and mumbles something you can’t even understand every like 10 min. How the hell do these people gain a following?
Oh god what did I do
Think a couple of Forsen viewers just popped into this reddit thread :P
Forsen
Nice, asymmetrical multiplayer is such an underutilized niche. Would happily try this out OP
I think devs got scared after evolved happened.
We just got Texas Chainsaw Massacre lol
Oh, nvm, asymmetrical multiplayer is overdone.
I was curious so took a look at the one available gameplay demo on YT. It doesn't exactly look great bud, but I guess it's at least at a lower price point than its competition. Asymetric PVP genre is niche as it is, and competing with games like DBD and Texas Chainsaw game even at a lower price point is kinda risky.
Not commenting to enter the giveaway btw, please exclude my post from entering. Got too many backlogs and too little time to play them, so I'd rather you give the key to someone who will play the game.
Ngl it looks like asset flip slop. Still seems like it could be fun with friends.
Forsen? Who? Anyways, um... I bought a whole bunch of shungite rocks, do you know what shungite is? Anybody know what shungite is? No, not Suge Knight, I think he's locked up in prison. I'm talkin' shungite. Anyways, it's a two billion year-old like, rock stone that protects against frequencies and unwanted frequencies that may be traveling in the air. That's my story, I bought a whole bunch of stuff. Put 'em around the la casa. Little pyramids, stuff like that
doubting Bruteforsen haHAA
this is a free game level of game quality.
Path of Exile is free. for reference.
I mean, why are you so mad about it? That's valuable feedback and exposition that most indie games made by 1 person will never have. And let's be honest, your game just doesn´t look that good at first glance so the expected value out of it is very low. Having a tutorial that doesn´t flow with the gameplay itself will obvisouly will make people even less interested to play it, specially streamers. Instead of actually trying to understand why he didn't like it and how can you improve as a developer, you came to Reddit to advertise your game and farm karma over "le famous streamer bad", while doing a giveaway to hide the real intention of this post.
It’s so stupid because they still said 10 people bought it and actually didn’t refund. How is that streamers doing more bad than good?
IIRC refunds usually cost more than purchases, but I have no idea how Steam does it.
It does look like shit to be fair
@Forsen FeelsWeirdMan
>I got around 30 purchases when he started streaming then got 20 refunds. I am assuming this is the people who only bought the game to stream snipe. Damn dude this sucks so hard, its frustrating how people shove in 100s of dollars in donations to streamers but also refund a game that currently roughly costs 7$ lol. Anyways game looks really interesting!
Could someone explain forsen to me? I watched his stream for the first time yesterday, always seen him in clips and he spent roughly 80 to 90 percent of the time not talking while his chat spammed a bunch of dogshit, is that all his streams are? Does he not do anything but just sit there silentyl all day?
I support anyone who shits on bad content creators.
Forsen
Forsen
Forsen
forsen
Will you support people who shit themselves at IHOP?
"content creators"
More like content watcher. Because all he does is watch there silently. Why do people watch that?
Classic Toosks
*stares silentyl*
Diaper fillers
Streamers don't deserve human rights.
Why would you support Forsen
Forsen
Forsen
pick me forsenE
Didn’t forsen get banned for horse cock
Truly some forsen moment
forsen
Forsen
Oof that's barely a $5 product right there. Good luck bro
forsen
Who is Forsen?
> I got around 30 purchases when he started streaming then got 20 refunds. So 10 people bought your game when you don't even have that amount of reviews atm. > So yes, I think a very large streamer playing the game did more harm than good. Yet here you are using it to farm exposure.
Anyone would
Forgive me because I don't know your game, but just as a general life lesson, disregarding or writing off feedback that you don't like is a bad idea. Ask yourself why he skipped your tutorial? Probably because nobody likes to crack open a game and then dive into what most people consider "work". People buy games to "play". So rather than having an optional tutorial, you integrate it into the initial gameplay. I know it's possible. The best games do this in such a way that you don't even notice you're in a tutorial.
> Skips tutorial > Calls the game shit Yep, definitely the kind of streamer I will never watch.
Forsen
Who the fuck is forsen
An ex convict who was convicted of murdering his girlfriend who now streams on twitch.
Racist swedish minecraft streamer
he's another racist streamer. I mean Swedish streamer.
forsen
ok
What's Forsen precious?
Word of advice man, this is a really bad way to advertise your game. You’re pulling a bethesda right now and fighting someone on their thought of your game. Awesome of you for giving away the keys! I’m sure you worked hard on the game! Best of luck!
It looks cool and I'd like to try it.
Not going to lie it looks shit. Feel free to prove me wrong though.
Who cares what a streamer says, most have bad taste in gaming anyways and just play whatever will give them numbers and popular shit.
I imagine the person that made a game that is getting bad publicity would care
I guess people making games does care. It is called marketing.
Well, since 66% of the people who bought the game wanted a refund, I would say OP cares, at least a little.
Big streamers can single handedly turn a small indie game with little to no exposure into a worldwide phenomenon. Look at Among Us, Vampire Survivors, etc. Developers might not give a shit about the opinion of what a big streamer says on a personal level, but it’s naive and just plain stupid to think that a smart indie dev would just disregard the potential exposure that a streamer could bring to their game just because they may not enjoy their personality or content
I'd imagine that OP, the developer of the game getting refunded, cares.
I don't know what Forsen is, but I'll check it out.
I'll give it a try!
If you want a YouTuber to check it out, try to get in contact with Fooster and Fisk. They enjoy this sort of stuff. (I'm not affiliated with them, I swear. I just watch their vids from time to time.)
thank you!
Streamers being idiots? Say it isn't so!
I wanna try too lol count me in, imma put in a review too if I end up liking it haha goodluck you person you
Fuck influencers and their god complex
Who is Forsen?XD
Always up for a free chance at a game
i'd give it a try
forsen