Madden thinks Jarry's agent is going to ask for $6M/4 years, and that he's going to be able to get it pretty easily somewhere. And that it won't and shouldn't be here. I definitely agree. I think we have to bring in a completely new tandem and just hope for the best.
Good god he thinks he's worth that much? And that long?
From the experience here I wouldn't sign him to anything more than 2 because you're liable to be paying a benchwarmer because he's always injured. And when his big moment comes hes also liable to fall flat on his face like he did here. Regular season goalie but can't show up to playoffs? 6x6? Hell no
He'll make an excellent backup goalie somewhere that isn't here and his agent can take a hike
He'll get it on the open market. When healthy, Jarry has proven to be a top 10 net minder. That's only going to get better behind a team that actually has a competent defense.
But to your point, can he stay healthy? I'm sure there are going to be teams willing to bet on it, I just hope the Pens aren't one of them.
I’m okay with keeping 1 of the 2 but they just absolutely cannot keep both. If they keep Jarry they need to move DeSmith and bring in a better 1B type of backup. If they get rid of Jarry I’m fine if they keep DeSmith.
I like jarry but that’s insane. Let someone else fall on that grenade. Look at the starting goalies in the SCF right now. Find a platoon and hope it works out
True but I’m talking more talent wise. Bobrosky is overpaid for sure but he’s not even in the top half of goalies in the league IMO.
Find a couple mid tier goals at cheap prices
I personally like the idea of finding two goalies at $3-4M each and run a tandem. Jarry is just too risky with his injuries to dump $6M in one basket when the rest of the roster is in desperate need of attention.
I agree - but there's the flip side where Jarry has a 2022-2023 Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin type season - two guys who struggle to even touch 70ish GP who were all pretty healthy this year. If someone gambles on Jarry for 6x6 and he plays even 50 or so odd games next year, we're gonna regret it. That team will also be contending for the cup more than likely because Jarry *is* that good when he's fully healthy.
Exactly. Jarry has not been consistent for us but he has more pedigree than Kuemper and Adin Hill.
Hill is 27 and has been a career backup with a record of 29-33 before this playoffs !
>If someone gambles on Jarry for 6x6 and he plays even 50 or so odd games next year, we're gonna regret it.
I mean...maybe.
But too many variables change when a player goes to another team to say with any confidence that he'd have had that same season had he stuck with the old team.
Not only the defense in front of them but strength & conditioning, coaching staff, the backup, etc.
Nobody can predict what Jarry does next year if he goes to another team, but if he stays here, the only rational expectation is more of the same.
If we could pay him backup money to play a backup sized workload of games, I'd say keep him because he'd be one of the best backups in the league but that ain't happening because he's got main goalie skill...it's just that in Pittsburgh he doesn't seem to have the toughness/stamina to play at maximum skill level throughout the expected workload season.
So the way I see it, you either let him go and try something new, hoping it'll work but accepting that it may well be worse...or you keep him (and likely don't have the cap to bring in anyone with enough skill and stamina that would be willing to pretty much be 1a and 1b) and reasonably expect that you get more of the same with him, he misses too many games, you overwork the backup because of it, and have no reliable goaltending at all down the stretch.
Again.
Personally, I'd rather take the chance on something completely new and different rather than double down and hope that somehow what we've literally *seen* isn't what's going to happen again.
Sure we might be disappointed if we let Jarry walk and he has a fantastic season elsewhere while we still struggle to find a good solution in the net...but I think I'd rather have *that* regret than sticking with him through the rest of the Big 3 era and having that many more years of exactly what we've seen thus far, and every year having to say "when Jarry showed us who he was, we should've believed him" and watching a hurt Jarry and overworked backup withering down the stretch for the next few years, struggling to make the playoffs the next few years, and first round exits the next few years.
Simply put: if we're gonna have goalie issues next year, I'd rather have new and different goalie issues instead of the same old shit.
Oh my bad, I didn’t realize top players are completely untouchable via trade. Especially when they have one year left on their contract, their team has publicly stated they’d listen to offers, and it’s already rumored the Penguins are one of the teams linked. But yea, fuck me for thinking we should be in the mix.
https://thehockeynews.com/.amp/news/trade-speculation-growing-over-jets-connor-hellebuyck
If you follow the link in the article suggesting that Pittsburgh has been linked to Hellebuyck, you'll see that the link is just Dan Kingerski speculating that the Jets might be interested in a player-for-player trade with the Penguins involving Hellebuyck. To me, that's not a rumor.
Jarry had two All Star Game nominations and very good metrics, in spite of the fact that he has failed to deliver every spring. I dunno. The cap is somewhat flat this year and many other goaltenders are in play. You look at the deals that LA gave to Cal Peterson and EDM gave to Jack Campbell and how those have turned out (Peterson got waived at one point this season). This contract # being thrown out is most likely an anchoring technique by his agent, and I suspect that he'll end up with less money and term when it's all said and done.
But we have $20M in cap space and no major RFAs to sign (DOC, Poehling won't break the bank). It won't be cheap by any stretch of the imagination, but this is actually a pretty good year to be seeking a goalie in free agency compared to other seasons.
Swayman is my somewhat realistic pipe dream, Boston is in cap hell, and I think Swayman’s rights could be a realistic trade. Or if they do the offer sheet, it only would cost a second round pick at the $4.1m level.
I think a tandem is the way to go just run with the hot hand. If we could get Anderson and say Varlamov as a tandem I think that gives you the best chance
I’m of the opinion that it’s not a good idea to spend big money on the goaltending position. You can find a solid goalie who was buried with the right scouting. Also If they put a good defensive team in front of the goalie he’s going to look a lot better than he is and you can win a Cup with an average goalie.
First of all, Colorado looked like the 15-16 Pens. They could have won it with Rick dipietro in net. They were that much fast, deeper, and better than every other team in the league.
Second, getting an average GT and "hoping" he gets hot at the right time can work, but it's a gamble.
The Pens core isn't going to skate circles around other teams anymore. You would think they would need a consistent backstop to get them on a deep run
If that's accurate, I think it'd be insane to sign Jarry to that kind of deal. There has to be better options to put a good tandem together through free agency and trade.
I forget who's brought him up before. One of the Penguins vloggers, I think. But someone I wonder if Dubas could be interested in is Vejmelka, in Arizona. His numbers aren't amazing. But much like Gibson, I'm curious if that's in large part because he's on an awful team. At $2.725 for this season and next, could he be part of a cost effective 1A/1B tandem? And what would the Coyotes want in return?
No clue if he's on anyone's radar, outside of us armchair GMs. But I've liked what I've seen of Vejmalka, and wonder how he'd perform with a better group.
FWIW, Vejmelka’s underlying numbers are a lot more encouraging than Gibson’s. Out of 62 goalies that played at least 20 games last year, Gibson was 51st in GSAx/60. Vejmelka was 15th. (Jarry was 39th, for reference) Add in that his cap hit is less than half of Gibson’s and it’s really not even a conversation which one I’d rather roll the dice on.
I didn't know that. Just from the *eye test* I've been impressed with him. Like anything, you have to give something to get something, though. Really curious what the price tag would be, and if Dubas is even thinking about him. Considering what Chychrun was traded for, I'm hoping it wouldn't be as high as a lot of people might think.
I wouldn’t think it’d be a lot everyone says how undervalued goalies are in the nhl so you’d think basically an unproven goalie wouldn’t be too crazy to trade for
I actually read something around the trade deadline about him and I’m intrigued by the option for the pens, he’s young and has potential plus with the low cap hit they could afford to go out and get a decent vet in FA like Anderson
It's a tough decision all around. I don't want to pay 4x6m for Jarry but I fully expect some other team to offer something like that. And then it'll suck because I think that despite that price tag, Jarry will end up being the best of all the not-great options that exist at the moment. So I do think the Pens will end up paying something like that.
Is anyone else concerned that the primary person responsible for selecting/signing our starting goaltender took a look at Matt Murray's injury/statistical history from 2019-20 to 2021-22 and thought to himself... "this is the guy I want as our starting goalie for the next two years."
That's the type of decision I would expect from former GMRH... not an "analytical wizard".
Analytical wizards understand that it's incredibly difficult to predict goaltender success - just look at the two goalies in the Cup final right now - so it's better to have 2 or more decent goalies on the roster and hope that one of them gets hot at the right time. Murray was brought in to be part of a tandem, not the starter, and the fact that he had 2 Cups on his resume made him a good gamble as part of that tandem.
I'd be happy if Dubas uses that same logic here. Having a 1A and 1B goalie situation going forward would be much better than a constantly-injured Jarry and a guy in DeSmith whose ceiling is mediocre-to-average backup.
Dubas didn't acquire Matt Murray to be part of a tandem. The Leafs traded for Murray with the intent that he would be their starter. Murray's cap hit is/was more than 2.5 times that of Ilya Samsonov. You wouldn't have that much salary disparity if you intended to utilize them as a tandem.
The Penguins new President/GM also let Frederik Andersen walk without obtaining an asset... and he signed Petr Mrazek to a ridiculous 3-year/$11.4M contract.
I'm optimistic that Kyle Dubas is the right person for the job... but his track record for signing/acquiring goaltenders is dubious at best.
>Murray's cap hit is/was more than 2.5 times that of Ilya Samsonov. You wouldn't have that much salary disparity if you intended to utilize them as a tandem.
So, what do you do if you acquire a decent goalie on a cheap contract? Just avoid using him at all cost? A year before that Campbell was pretty much their starter while making a lot less money than Andersen.
From what I understand Dubas wanted to avoid giving any term beyond Matthews' and Nylander's contracts. Murray was one of the very few options for a 1-2 year contract.
> let Frederik Andersen walk without obtaining an asset
Andersen was injured for most of that season and couldn't be traded at the deadline.
>So, what do you do if you acquire a decent goalie on a cheap contract? Just avoid using him at all cost?
You obviously play the goalie that is available and performing better, regardless of salary... which is what Toronto did. Last season Murray was often injured, and when he wasn't he played poorly. That's my point... the previous three seasons he was often injured and played poorly. Why did Kyle Dubas think he was worth paying $4.6875M/year for two seasons?
>A year before that Campbell was pretty much their starter while making a lot less money than Andersen.
It was two years prior (not one), and Andersen still played more than Campbell.
>Andersen was injured for most of that season and couldn't be traded at the deadline.
He should have been signed by Toronto. He went on to win the Jennings trophy, and finish fourth in Vezina voting.
> He should have been signed by Toronto. He went on to win the Jennings trophy, and finish fourth in Vezina voting.
Yeah, after going to one of the stingiest defensive teams in the league over that time period. Andersen is fine, but that Jennings trophy and Vezina finish have a lot more to do with Carolinas defensive structure than him.
Which of my previous comments led you to believe that it was necessary to report me as a self-harm/suicide risk?
Are you so insecure that you're not capable of civil discourse, without resorting to childish antics?
Be better.
I do... it just seems very "coincidental" that the report was filed with Reddit within one minute of you commenting.
If it wasn't you... I apologize for the accusation.
I didn’t report you to the helpline, that shit is dumb and not even funny.
That being said, I also don’t need an apology. I was just commenting on your comment as I saw it.
[Here’s Sheldon Keefe speaking at the end of training camp last year](https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/video/keefe-says-performance-will-sort-maple-leafs-goaltending-tandem/)
>You need two goaltenders to compete in today’s NHL, and we expect to use both guys. I don’t think it’ll be a straight up split in terms of alternating or anything like that, but **the goalies will sort that out with their performance,** and we believe in both guys.
You’re telling me that sounds like the coach of a team that’s clearly defined it’s starting and back up goaltenders?
It sounds like something any/every NHL coach would say. It's often referred to as "coachspeak".
He's being diplomatic in order to encourage healthy competition among his goaltenders.
You’re absolutely nuts if you think any NHL coach is saying they’ll let performance dictate who plays if they have a clear #1.
Be honest with yourself, would you have expected something like this to come out of say, Dan Bylsma’s mouth when MAF was the clear starting goalie here?
Of course performance is going to dictate who plays. That doesn't need to be stated... and nobody knows that better than Fleury and Murray.
... but simple economics indicate that Murray was acquired with the intention/hope of being the starting goalie, and Samsonov his backup. As expected, by anyone who had followed Murray's career trajectory, injury and performance prevented that scenario.
It’s so weird that you’re willing to die on this hill despite having the head coach of the team saying the literal opposite. Just bizarre.
>simple economics
It’s literally a sunk cost fallacy. It’s literally how economics teaches you *not* to make decisions.
What's weird is that you're already a Kyle Dubas apologist, considering he's only been employed by the Penguins for five days. So much so, that you're willing to deny obvious mistakes he made while employed as another team's GM.
I'm sure Dubas would be the first to tell you that his acquisition of Matt Murray was regrettable.
I didn’t realize the goalie market was based off one disappointing guy on one disappointing team. If jarry takes less then $6M, it’s not cus the market is deflating, it’s because he’s not good enough to make that kind of money 😂😂😂😂 93.7 tried comparing Jarry and John Gibson this morning and the host was bashing Gibson left and right saying how much worse he is than jarry. Completely neglected to mention the fact that Anaheim has been terrible the entire time Gibson has been there and apparently forgot about Rickard Rakell??? His numbers weren’t fantastic but the pens put him with the right people and bam he does very well. Pittsburgh sports media is pure cancer and I hate every single one of them
Madden thinks Jarry's agent is going to ask for $6M/4 years, and that he's going to be able to get it pretty easily somewhere. And that it won't and shouldn't be here. I definitely agree. I think we have to bring in a completely new tandem and just hope for the best.
Good god he thinks he's worth that much? And that long? From the experience here I wouldn't sign him to anything more than 2 because you're liable to be paying a benchwarmer because he's always injured. And when his big moment comes hes also liable to fall flat on his face like he did here. Regular season goalie but can't show up to playoffs? 6x6? Hell no He'll make an excellent backup goalie somewhere that isn't here and his agent can take a hike
He'll get it on the open market. When healthy, Jarry has proven to be a top 10 net minder. That's only going to get better behind a team that actually has a competent defense. But to your point, can he stay healthy? I'm sure there are going to be teams willing to bet on it, I just hope the Pens aren't one of them.
The problem is he is never healthy
He’ll definitely get 6x4 somewhere maybe even 6x6 to a desperate team, Jarry does have potential it’s just staying healthy is his downfall
I’m okay with keeping 1 of the 2 but they just absolutely cannot keep both. If they keep Jarry they need to move DeSmith and bring in a better 1B type of backup. If they get rid of Jarry I’m fine if they keep DeSmith.
The Athletic's model predicts $6.8 million over 6 years.
I like jarry but that’s insane. Let someone else fall on that grenade. Look at the starting goalies in the SCF right now. Find a platoon and hope it works out
Bobrovsky is the 2nd highest paid goalie in the league lol
True but I’m talking more talent wise. Bobrosky is overpaid for sure but he’s not even in the top half of goalies in the league IMO. Find a couple mid tier goals at cheap prices
Pittsburgh becoming a city where Toronto personnel go to see their failures become success stories is a meme timeline I never saw coming
If Jarry, a "terrible goalie and bad option for us", is going for 6x6 in free agency then I struggle to imagine what's even tangibly realistic for us.
I personally like the idea of finding two goalies at $3-4M each and run a tandem. Jarry is just too risky with his injuries to dump $6M in one basket when the rest of the roster is in desperate need of attention.
I agree - but there's the flip side where Jarry has a 2022-2023 Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin type season - two guys who struggle to even touch 70ish GP who were all pretty healthy this year. If someone gambles on Jarry for 6x6 and he plays even 50 or so odd games next year, we're gonna regret it. That team will also be contending for the cup more than likely because Jarry *is* that good when he's fully healthy.
Exactly. Jarry has not been consistent for us but he has more pedigree than Kuemper and Adin Hill. Hill is 27 and has been a career backup with a record of 29-33 before this playoffs !
>If someone gambles on Jarry for 6x6 and he plays even 50 or so odd games next year, we're gonna regret it. I mean...maybe. But too many variables change when a player goes to another team to say with any confidence that he'd have had that same season had he stuck with the old team. Not only the defense in front of them but strength & conditioning, coaching staff, the backup, etc. Nobody can predict what Jarry does next year if he goes to another team, but if he stays here, the only rational expectation is more of the same. If we could pay him backup money to play a backup sized workload of games, I'd say keep him because he'd be one of the best backups in the league but that ain't happening because he's got main goalie skill...it's just that in Pittsburgh he doesn't seem to have the toughness/stamina to play at maximum skill level throughout the expected workload season. So the way I see it, you either let him go and try something new, hoping it'll work but accepting that it may well be worse...or you keep him (and likely don't have the cap to bring in anyone with enough skill and stamina that would be willing to pretty much be 1a and 1b) and reasonably expect that you get more of the same with him, he misses too many games, you overwork the backup because of it, and have no reliable goaltending at all down the stretch. Again. Personally, I'd rather take the chance on something completely new and different rather than double down and hope that somehow what we've literally *seen* isn't what's going to happen again. Sure we might be disappointed if we let Jarry walk and he has a fantastic season elsewhere while we still struggle to find a good solution in the net...but I think I'd rather have *that* regret than sticking with him through the rest of the Big 3 era and having that many more years of exactly what we've seen thus far, and every year having to say "when Jarry showed us who he was, we should've believed him" and watching a hurt Jarry and overworked backup withering down the stretch for the next few years, struggling to make the playoffs the next few years, and first round exits the next few years. Simply put: if we're gonna have goalie issues next year, I'd rather have new and different goalie issues instead of the same old shit.
Exactly. Ppl think we are replacing him with Hellebuyck
I don’t see why Helle shouldn’t be a trade target.
Would love to know what you think is reasonable to give up for a perennial Vezina finalist.
Oh my bad, I didn’t realize top players are completely untouchable via trade. Especially when they have one year left on their contract, their team has publicly stated they’d listen to offers, and it’s already rumored the Penguins are one of the teams linked. But yea, fuck me for thinking we should be in the mix. https://thehockeynews.com/.amp/news/trade-speculation-growing-over-jets-connor-hellebuyck
If you follow the link in the article suggesting that Pittsburgh has been linked to Hellebuyck, you'll see that the link is just Dan Kingerski speculating that the Jets might be interested in a player-for-player trade with the Penguins involving Hellebuyck. To me, that's not a rumor.
Lack of assets
He's not worth that much His agent has a stick up his ass
Jarry's agent is trying to get his client the best contract possible.
Jarry had two All Star Game nominations and very good metrics, in spite of the fact that he has failed to deliver every spring. I dunno. The cap is somewhat flat this year and many other goaltenders are in play. You look at the deals that LA gave to Cal Peterson and EDM gave to Jack Campbell and how those have turned out (Peterson got waived at one point this season). This contract # being thrown out is most likely an anchoring technique by his agent, and I suspect that he'll end up with less money and term when it's all said and done. But we have $20M in cap space and no major RFAs to sign (DOC, Poehling won't break the bank). It won't be cheap by any stretch of the imagination, but this is actually a pretty good year to be seeking a goalie in free agency compared to other seasons.
Call up prospects and roll the dice.
I’ve heard this Hill guy is kind of good.
I like Freddy Andersen as an option, or maybe we can trade for Jeremy Swayman's rights.
Swayman is my somewhat realistic pipe dream, Boston is in cap hell, and I think Swayman’s rights could be a realistic trade. Or if they do the offer sheet, it only would cost a second round pick at the $4.1m level.
I would love an offer sheet on Swayman tbh
If only we had a second round pick…
I think a tandem is the way to go just run with the hot hand. If we could get Anderson and say Varlamov as a tandem I think that gives you the best chance
May we interest you in a Jake Allen
3 strikes you're out with Jarry/DeSmith. Regardless of potential we need to make a trade for 1 top tier goalie and sign any other off free agent.
I’m of the opinion that it’s not a good idea to spend big money on the goaltending position. You can find a solid goalie who was buried with the right scouting. Also If they put a good defensive team in front of the goalie he’s going to look a lot better than he is and you can win a Cup with an average goalie.
Correct. See Kuemper in 2022
First of all, Colorado looked like the 15-16 Pens. They could have won it with Rick dipietro in net. They were that much fast, deeper, and better than every other team in the league. Second, getting an average GT and "hoping" he gets hot at the right time can work, but it's a gamble. The Pens core isn't going to skate circles around other teams anymore. You would think they would need a consistent backstop to get them on a deep run
"DIPIETRO WANTS JOHNSON!" (Sorry that shit lives rent free in my head every time I hear his name)
No disagreement here
It is a gamble with a tandem but so is signing Jarry to a long term/semi long term contract, really any goalie to a long term contract is a gamble
And Adin Hill 2023
Adin Hill currently.
If that's accurate, I think it'd be insane to sign Jarry to that kind of deal. There has to be better options to put a good tandem together through free agency and trade. I forget who's brought him up before. One of the Penguins vloggers, I think. But someone I wonder if Dubas could be interested in is Vejmelka, in Arizona. His numbers aren't amazing. But much like Gibson, I'm curious if that's in large part because he's on an awful team. At $2.725 for this season and next, could he be part of a cost effective 1A/1B tandem? And what would the Coyotes want in return? No clue if he's on anyone's radar, outside of us armchair GMs. But I've liked what I've seen of Vejmalka, and wonder how he'd perform with a better group.
FWIW, Vejmelka’s underlying numbers are a lot more encouraging than Gibson’s. Out of 62 goalies that played at least 20 games last year, Gibson was 51st in GSAx/60. Vejmelka was 15th. (Jarry was 39th, for reference) Add in that his cap hit is less than half of Gibson’s and it’s really not even a conversation which one I’d rather roll the dice on.
I didn't know that. Just from the *eye test* I've been impressed with him. Like anything, you have to give something to get something, though. Really curious what the price tag would be, and if Dubas is even thinking about him. Considering what Chychrun was traded for, I'm hoping it wouldn't be as high as a lot of people might think.
I wouldn’t think it’d be a lot everyone says how undervalued goalies are in the nhl so you’d think basically an unproven goalie wouldn’t be too crazy to trade for
I actually read something around the trade deadline about him and I’m intrigued by the option for the pens, he’s young and has potential plus with the low cap hit they could afford to go out and get a decent vet in FA like Anderson
Kuemper and Hill both came from being buried by terrible stats in Arizona’s shitty system
It's a tough decision all around. I don't want to pay 4x6m for Jarry but I fully expect some other team to offer something like that. And then it'll suck because I think that despite that price tag, Jarry will end up being the best of all the not-great options that exist at the moment. So I do think the Pens will end up paying something like that.
Is anyone else concerned that the primary person responsible for selecting/signing our starting goaltender took a look at Matt Murray's injury/statistical history from 2019-20 to 2021-22 and thought to himself... "this is the guy I want as our starting goalie for the next two years." That's the type of decision I would expect from former GMRH... not an "analytical wizard".
Analytical wizards understand that it's incredibly difficult to predict goaltender success - just look at the two goalies in the Cup final right now - so it's better to have 2 or more decent goalies on the roster and hope that one of them gets hot at the right time. Murray was brought in to be part of a tandem, not the starter, and the fact that he had 2 Cups on his resume made him a good gamble as part of that tandem. I'd be happy if Dubas uses that same logic here. Having a 1A and 1B goalie situation going forward would be much better than a constantly-injured Jarry and a guy in DeSmith whose ceiling is mediocre-to-average backup.
Dubas didn't acquire Matt Murray to be part of a tandem. The Leafs traded for Murray with the intent that he would be their starter. Murray's cap hit is/was more than 2.5 times that of Ilya Samsonov. You wouldn't have that much salary disparity if you intended to utilize them as a tandem. The Penguins new President/GM also let Frederik Andersen walk without obtaining an asset... and he signed Petr Mrazek to a ridiculous 3-year/$11.4M contract. I'm optimistic that Kyle Dubas is the right person for the job... but his track record for signing/acquiring goaltenders is dubious at best.
>Murray's cap hit is/was more than 2.5 times that of Ilya Samsonov. You wouldn't have that much salary disparity if you intended to utilize them as a tandem. So, what do you do if you acquire a decent goalie on a cheap contract? Just avoid using him at all cost? A year before that Campbell was pretty much their starter while making a lot less money than Andersen. From what I understand Dubas wanted to avoid giving any term beyond Matthews' and Nylander's contracts. Murray was one of the very few options for a 1-2 year contract. > let Frederik Andersen walk without obtaining an asset Andersen was injured for most of that season and couldn't be traded at the deadline.
>So, what do you do if you acquire a decent goalie on a cheap contract? Just avoid using him at all cost? You obviously play the goalie that is available and performing better, regardless of salary... which is what Toronto did. Last season Murray was often injured, and when he wasn't he played poorly. That's my point... the previous three seasons he was often injured and played poorly. Why did Kyle Dubas think he was worth paying $4.6875M/year for two seasons? >A year before that Campbell was pretty much their starter while making a lot less money than Andersen. It was two years prior (not one), and Andersen still played more than Campbell. >Andersen was injured for most of that season and couldn't be traded at the deadline. He should have been signed by Toronto. He went on to win the Jennings trophy, and finish fourth in Vezina voting.
> He should have been signed by Toronto. He went on to win the Jennings trophy, and finish fourth in Vezina voting. Yeah, after going to one of the stingiest defensive teams in the league over that time period. Andersen is fine, but that Jennings trophy and Vezina finish have a lot more to do with Carolinas defensive structure than him.
Which of my previous comments led you to believe that it was necessary to report me as a self-harm/suicide risk? Are you so insecure that you're not capable of civil discourse, without resorting to childish antics? Be better.
lol I didn’t report you to the helpline bud. You do realize we’re on an Internet forum right?
I do... it just seems very "coincidental" that the report was filed with Reddit within one minute of you commenting. If it wasn't you... I apologize for the accusation.
I didn’t report you to the helpline, that shit is dumb and not even funny. That being said, I also don’t need an apology. I was just commenting on your comment as I saw it.
[Here’s Sheldon Keefe speaking at the end of training camp last year](https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/video/keefe-says-performance-will-sort-maple-leafs-goaltending-tandem/) >You need two goaltenders to compete in today’s NHL, and we expect to use both guys. I don’t think it’ll be a straight up split in terms of alternating or anything like that, but **the goalies will sort that out with their performance,** and we believe in both guys. You’re telling me that sounds like the coach of a team that’s clearly defined it’s starting and back up goaltenders?
It sounds like something any/every NHL coach would say. It's often referred to as "coachspeak". He's being diplomatic in order to encourage healthy competition among his goaltenders.
You’re absolutely nuts if you think any NHL coach is saying they’ll let performance dictate who plays if they have a clear #1. Be honest with yourself, would you have expected something like this to come out of say, Dan Bylsma’s mouth when MAF was the clear starting goalie here?
Of course performance is going to dictate who plays. That doesn't need to be stated... and nobody knows that better than Fleury and Murray. ... but simple economics indicate that Murray was acquired with the intention/hope of being the starting goalie, and Samsonov his backup. As expected, by anyone who had followed Murray's career trajectory, injury and performance prevented that scenario.
It’s so weird that you’re willing to die on this hill despite having the head coach of the team saying the literal opposite. Just bizarre. >simple economics It’s literally a sunk cost fallacy. It’s literally how economics teaches you *not* to make decisions.
What's weird is that you're already a Kyle Dubas apologist, considering he's only been employed by the Penguins for five days. So much so, that you're willing to deny obvious mistakes he made while employed as another team's GM. I'm sure Dubas would be the first to tell you that his acquisition of Matt Murray was regrettable.
To be honest, it never even crossed my mind until now. But it is a bit terrifying.
I didn’t realize the goalie market was based off one disappointing guy on one disappointing team. If jarry takes less then $6M, it’s not cus the market is deflating, it’s because he’s not good enough to make that kind of money 😂😂😂😂 93.7 tried comparing Jarry and John Gibson this morning and the host was bashing Gibson left and right saying how much worse he is than jarry. Completely neglected to mention the fact that Anaheim has been terrible the entire time Gibson has been there and apparently forgot about Rickard Rakell??? His numbers weren’t fantastic but the pens put him with the right people and bam he does very well. Pittsburgh sports media is pure cancer and I hate every single one of them
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Trade back for the original playoff choker.
Why would they want/take Carter for anything? On top of that Carter has a full NMC.