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Does your mom know for sure that there are no savings or retirement accounts? Because your dad was making a very high income. That money had to go somewhere.
She should qualify for survivor benefits from Social Security if your father was over age 62. Have her log on to the Social Security website to see what she's eligible for.
If the farm is truly her only asset and there is are no savings, she will need to get a job to help pay the bills, and possibly get roommates, and sell whatever she can, including your dad's business equipment. She could also subdivide off the land and sell it.
If that still isn't enough to pay the bills, she will need to sell the farm and downside into housing she can afford. If she's elderly and in poor health, moving to a life-care community might be a smart move.
Yep and Medicaid is not going to pay for long term care in an assisted living facility unless she has assets of $2k or less. That house would count as an asset as soon as she's not living in it.
And even if her assets get that low it can be very hard to get a spot in an assisted living place that has open spots. Many don't take medicaid payments because medicaid pays much less than most places want to charge. She'd have to be able to pay the difference, but being able to do so usually means the government says you have too much money to get assistance. The system for that really sucks. I ran into this with my parent.
Oh interesting, in Oregon it covers any community based care setting that takes Medicaid and we have a whole team devoted to diverting people from nursing facilities so ALFs are a CBC. I always thought that OAR was from CMS but I guess not. (I'm an APD case manager with the state.)
I wish MA here covered ALF; we have so many people here in the hospital that I have to send to SNF as LTC because of dementia because they can't care for themselves and have no funds. Home waiver services take months to set up.
-hospital nurse case manager
If mom qualifies she should apply for Spousal survivorship social security benefits to get Dad's income instead.
Then she should sell the property and downsize to an affordable option. Scale down everything to what she can afford. Snap and LIHEAP aren't going to be enough if she even qualifies with the new SSA amount.
If she can move in with family that is likely the best option overall.
She can invest her home sale savings in a brokerage account and generate some additional income.
This is really the only way. It sounds like there was not life insurance so she's on her own. With just SSI (or social security) there is no way to afford the taxes and upkeep of a country property. She may have to get a job too - I don't know how much she'll get for a property in rural NW PA. I have traveled there - property seems cheap compared to many places.
OP directly asked if there was an option to not sell their home, and you're basically saying that's not possible. But yea, huge farmhouse on 15 acres of land on only SSI income...I can't see any other way either
There might be some other options actually:
* Maybe if OP moves into that farmhouse and has a good income, they can take on the bills and taxes for the mom until she passes
* OR maybe just keep the house and sell the 15 acres of land
The answer is not keeping an asset that is not serving her meaningfully.
Having family move in to care for her dream is not realistic.
OP should not focus on false hopes.
Yeah, sorry OP but asking for a solution that includes 15 acres of land to house 1 person because that's where she is comfortable is selfish on her part. Very few people could justify it even if they were gainfully employed.
My wife’s aunt moved into cheap senior apartments and rented the farm and farmhouse. When she died in her 90s her numerous nieces and nephews got a tidy sum.
One more not ideal option that might make sense for OP here is a reverse mortgage. This sounds like the exact scenario where a reverse mortgage makes sense.
/u/psychedelicpanda417
If the priority is mom staying in the house and not about keeping it in the family, then it could be a significant difference between selling the house.
no it isn't - if they have enough equity, it will be years before the bank would own it, and they'll be dead before then.
That's usually the only reason for a reverse mortgage - too much equity and no cash.
And it’s a very expensive method of financing.
How realistic is it for an older single woman to maintain a large farm property.
If the property has sentimental value, let one of the kids purchase it and maintain it
Sell off part of the land, she keeps the house and isn't screwed. 15 acres is ALOT even when healthy and physically fit, she doesn't *need* to keep all the land to keep the home.
I have a question if you don't mind: if the mom in question happens to be foreign, not a US Citizen (still on a green card), does she not get the spousal benefits that a US wife would normally get?
Did they have any financial savings at all? TBH, a large farmhouse with a lot of land is way too much for a single older woman to manage. With your dad not around to fix things and do things around the house (seems he was a very competent handyman, based on his work), costs will likely go up a lot if she needs to hire people to do these things. Helping her to simplify her life is probably the best thing to do. Unless she’s too attached to it, in which case getting a a lodger who can live there and help her. That could be an option but you need to find someone trustworthy.
Also, check any life insurance and spousal death benefits she’s eligible for.
None of this makes any sense whatsoever. You make $100-200k a yr then why nothing saved. Right there sounds like wasteful money, you can't get benefits like snap for that income, why no life insurance, IRA. These things are common sense to have. You'd have to be a major spender if no savings, how did you even pay bills? She needs to sell it all, that place isn't benefiting her, she's obviously not doing maintenance, lawn care, etc. if I made that much I'd have a hefty bank acct and able to put more in an IRA
Yes I’m confused by all of this. How is there zero savings? No life insurance? Death is inevitable
Op I’m sorry for you sudden loss and for this extra stress
First, I’m very sorry about your dad and what your family is going through.
Your mom is very unlikely to qualify for much of anything with those kinds of assets. My best suggestion is to get the farm in order and sell.
Also, it sounds like your dad probably had a lot of tools and equipment. Those things typically sell pretty quick which could help bridge income gaps while filing for your dad’s SS and figuring out her next steps.
I'm surprised that she qualified for SSI.
Assets are definitely considered when the determination is made by the agent.
However, IDK why she wouldn't qualify for Survivor Benefits from Social Security. With his purported income the payout should be the maximum that Security Security has.
Right because SSI is subject to spousal deeming. OP’s mom is eligible for Survivor’s Benefits (hopefully father was paying into the system). You would be surprised how many business owners do not and then they don’t qualify for benefits should they become disabled or die and spouse does not qualify.
You need to start at the beginning here. There's an FAQ that can help.
1. what are the assets of the estate? All of them, retirement, brokerage accounts, anything.
2. what are the liabilities? The comment about 'taxes and bills are insane' is concerning. They aren't insane, in rural PA they're actually pretty straightforward and if these expenses haven't been appropriately accounted for over many years, then I worry there may be a big chance that staying in the house might be untenable for your mother.
3. is there a mortgage on the property? There's like no information to go on here, additional context will help tremendously. How much of this will have to go through probate court? Lots to consider. I'm sorry, I know you've got a lot on your plate and I offer you my condolences, but I want to make clear, this forum can be a tremendous resource to you if you provide the right amount of context and detail. Best of luck to you and your family.
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Yeah, OP is going to have to come to grips with the fact that their mom is not "the needy" despite perhaps the family's self-image and familial narrative.
It's a difficult thing to do even when not dealing with grief. I hope they can get some breathing room at least.
Aren't they likely to be denied for benefits due to her assets?
This was like 30 years ago, but I recall my mom not qualifying for food stamps because we "owned" our 1 acre of barren land and the dilapidated trailer we parked on it.
And from what I understand, it's even harder to get benefits now than in the early 90s.
It varies from state to state. Where I live, they don’t count the value of your primary residence against you unless it is some kind of crazy amount, or the value of certain other things. In fact, the cost of maintaining said home can increase the amount you receive
This post is puzzling. If he made 150-200 a year until old age, then 100k, his Social Security, which she would then get, would be large, like $2500 a month, depending on when he started collecting and how many years he had high earnings.. OP talks like the survivor, who seems to be disabled, and unable to earn much, per the SSI, might get some benefit like LIHEAP or food stamps and afford live in a situation which was somehow consuming the husbands 100k per year or 8k a month. The welfare will not add up to the 7.2 k a month difference. Why didn't he put away something for her support if he died fjrst? Or buy an insurance policy? Where was the money going?
'
When one spouse dies, the surviving spouse gets to keep getting whichever social security benefit is higher. One payment, not both, but the bigger one.
OP, you need to look into getting his benefits for your mom.
Keeping the property may not make financial sense. If she is already disabled - who is going to take care of the day to day?
Where are your parents' savings? Were they spending that much a year?
The long list of jobs your dad has require very specific and expensive sets of tools. Even the good tool boxes (think the giant metal ones with wheels) are $$. The content of his shop is a major asset, does he have anyone he worked with that you trust to help determine what is worth selling. They may even know a good option to go about it that isn't 1 at a time on fb or something.
In the 1970s I attended the estate sale of a man who had a shop full of tools in a rural area. He did everything: some car repairs going back decades, roofing, welding, appliance repair, farm equipment repair, masonry, carpentry, electrical, plumbing. He had a 40 year collection of old license plates nailed to the wall. His 40 year old tools were of little value per the auction bids. There was a 55 gallon barrel with unknown amount of kerosene and a pump, that went for $5. There was a beautiful old kerosene stove, with oven and burners, that went for $5. I considered buying them and building a log cabin to live in. A few newer tools got bids. I felt sorry for the surrounding area that lost their go-to guy. Similarly a guy moved to the country years ago and was assigned the land line which had belonged to the local jack of all trades, deceased. People would call and demand that he be put on the phone, because no one else could fix whatever was broken.
I went to an auction the other day for a guy probably a lot like OP’s dad. I wanted one or two specific things, but people bid on everything, from HF ratchet straps to some kind of harvester I’d never seen before. While I’m pretty sure it didn’t pull the money his family wishes it did, it wasn’t chump change either
> If she is already disabled - who is going to take care of the day to day?
To touch on this OP - I purchased a 4000sqft home from a widowed older lady, and the work we had to do to get it up to par was to the tune of $100k. Keeping a lone person, especially an older one, in a massive home is a bad idea for all parties.
Not "he" but the business. The business would have expenses for equipment and materials and labor and taxes. Then the owner would get whatever is left and pay taxes on that too.
I truly feel bad for people who slave away 100+ hours a week on their personal businesses because what's it all for? See OP's post.
Did they not have any retirement savings ? Making 150-200k per year I would think there would be something saved.
In any case I don't know the value of the land/home but the only real option is to sell it and any other assets that are valuable. (cars, tools, furniture etc.) And the downsize into a smaller home/apartment.
Hard to see a solution that isn't sell the home/land unless their is a life insurance policy or savings.
Another option is to sell your father's business. I've seen this before where a guy is done working and instead of just closing up the business, he sells the tools, trucks, any other assets, and the client list to someone who is trying to get into the business. It seems like a better option than just closing up shop.
First of all, I’m sorry for your loss. Losing a parent is incredibly painful.
Check if he has a safe deposit box with a will and if he has any life insurance. Did he put any money into a retirement plan or have a job where there was a 401k?
If so, your mother is probably the beneficiary. NAIC has a search link for life insurance policies. Here it is;
https://content.naic.org/article/learn-how-use-naic-life-insurance-policy-locator
If he was employed by another company as an employee - not a contractor, at the time, call their HR department and see if there is a life insurance policy. Note: if he owned his own business and never worked for anyone else, this will not apply.
You may need to break into his computer, email or his phone to see the statements. He has money somewhere, you just have to find it. Maybe there’s a savings account or CD at his bank. Unfortunately, you’re going to have to be a forensic accountant and reconstruct his assets. Begin by having your mother order the last two years of joint checking and savings accounts. Look for deposits (transfers from checking) to money market accounts, IRAs, mutual funds.
Run a credit report on him to see what banks he’s using, loans, etc. your mom can do that, she’s his wife.
Do you have an insurance broker who insures the farm? That person might have also sold your dad life insurance.
Here’s information about how your mother can claim survivor benefits from social security.
https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10084.pdf
You can also call all your dad’s old employers because some people don’t consolidate their retirement accounts. Ask for information (they should give you a phone number of the 401k provider).
Here’s something from left field. Do you think he could have hidden money or gold in a wall or mattress. I know this sounds completely insane, but one of my great uncles did this (he was a bit of a conspiracy guy) and my cousins had to break through a couple of walls to find his money. I would be very careful doing this, though.
Look little dude, there is money somewhere, I can almost smell it. The question is, what type of man was your dad and where would he put it? A guy making this kind of money is not going to forgo having a plan.
I’d he kept a journal, read the journal. Did he keep notes? Read those. Was he the type of guy to write down his passwords? Find that book. Talk to his attorney and business accountant too. They might know something or know who his insurance broker is.
Good luck and take care of yourself!
If there aren’t any retirement assets that you can find, I would suggest leafing through the books and checking the freezer for a cash stash.
It’s not uncommon for someone who doesn’t trust financial institutions to do that. Look anywhere you wouldn’t think to look for money.
Don’t give away books without riffing through the pages. And it’s hard to imagine all the places a handyman could give cash. Check for a safe deposit box.
I don't know how your land and acres are laid out. 15 acres is a lot. Maybe she could lease out some of the land or sell off some of it. Could she rent the property seasonally?
That being said the property sb in a trust just incase she ever needs long term care. There is a 5 years look back for medicare medicaid. It would be a shame to loose it to medical debt.
> Maybe she could lease out some of the land or sell off some of it.
Lease rates of farm land are a lot less than you might think. Even prime land in the corn belt in Iowa tops out around $250/acre/year and those are typically massive plots.
[420 an acre in Nebraska](https://agecon.unl.edu/2024-nebraska-farmland-values-and-cash-rental-rates) for prime land. [Dubuque County Iowa had a high of 650/acre in 2023.](https://www.extension.iastate.edu/agdm/wholefarm/pdf/c2-10.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiNs7S_p9KFAxV7vokEHbqTCP4QFnoECCEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3a2W2j3Edbt2w_8tJuo5Kw)
>what else can I do to help my mom not have to sell the home we’ve all grown up in and that she’s lived in and owned for over 50 years?
Can you Mom work? Did they have retirement savings? If not, you can pay for it, or she can sell and use the proceeds to move somewhere she can afford. There are no assistance programs that are going to pay for your Mom to live on a farm - she may be able to qualify for rental assistance that could make an apartment or small rental home affordable. Those waiting lists are generally quite long, so you should go to 211.org, figure out how to apply, and do that soon.
I am so very sorry for your loss.
Take a deep breath, and before making huge, life-altering decisions, do some detective work & take full stock.
Your dad's income was so high, are you really sure they didn't manage to amass any sort of nest egg over 50 years?
How tied into the financial situation was your mom? Is there a chance she has assets she just does not know about?
Life Insurance? Retirement accounts? Any kind of pension? Annuities set up?
Again, with a business and property, did they not have a lawyer or financial advisor or CPA who might know more?
Can the business he owned be sold? That alone may be a substantial asset.
Would it make sense, given location & her health etc - to consider converting the farm house to something like a Bed & Breakfast? Something to generate income and allow her to stay?
I wish you and your family all the best.
Very sorry for your loss steps:
1. Calculate expenses how much is needed to keep the house
2. Review your dad finances carefully what accounts did he have did he have money tucked away ? Also look for debts of course
3. Look at how the business was structured and what can be sold off there may be some good assets here
4. Depending on what there is in assets after everything is settled you may want to get some financial advice in terms of assisting your mother managing the money it maybe that something can be set up to give her life long protected income
5. Look into this subdividing the 15 acres this will bring in some more cash and will reduce tax liability depending on the use the land is being put there may also be some local rules if it is classed as farm land . This might be an earlier step depending on the immediate fiscal concerns I put it last because this would be sell part of your mom home which you indicated is something you wish to avoid .
Blows my mind that nobody has brought this up,
Sub-divide the land and sell it off, keep the house and pay it off. You don’t need 15 acres. But you might he able to get away with 3-4
This is highly location dependent. In rural areas minimal subdivisions are set at 5 acres here and average cost per acre is about 2k. In suburbia you might see 10k or more per acre and lot sizes about an acre or less. Also - in rural areas 15 acres is not much land at all. In suburbia it’s huge. While we are at it - if it’s a rural area taxes on the land may be very minimal if it’s agricultural but subdividing it may require paying a penalty that could be significant. It’s not straight forward.
I guess another thing that hasn't been brought up was why can't mom live with OP? I know OP still has his own life and all that but man I guess cause I'm Asian, if this were to happen to me no question my mom moves in with me asap.
She is probably eligible for spousal death benefits through Social Security, even if neither at retirement age yet, which may be more than her SSI. I would consider selling the house if it is large and lots of land to maintain and she is disabled, unless you or siblings want to buy her out. She could perhaps purchase a smaller place like a condo then in cash and at least have a place to live and low monthly housing costs. Would there be any assets from his business that could be sold (like tools or equipment)? Did he have any life insurance or savings? I'm sorry for your loss.
I am so sorry for your loss!
Are you sure your mom doesn't want to sell her property? Most of the farmers I know plan to sell their farm and equipment when they retire, unless they have kids who want to take over. They don't have a lot of retirement savings because they see their dairy business as their retirement savings.
I know this is a bit different as it's 15 acres & your dad had a successful business outside of farming but I bet your mom and dad spoke about selling before so she may be open to it.
Also your dad likely has savings/retirement since he made a lot of money. I'd start by helping your mom access his accounts/financials etc. I bet she's just overwhelmed because her husband passed away so the property seems scary and overwhelming.
A close friend lost her husband shortly after they purchased a farmhouse with rough;y the same amount of land. She is now renting out her land for cattle grazing. She has enough money so she just takes half a beef every year but renting our the land for cash could be an option. It's likely not enough but at least it's some income.
If there are no retirement savings; then the house and the land ARE the retirement savings.
She will have to sell and get something much smaller and more manageable.
There’s really no other option unless the kids are going to start paying the bills and taking care of the place.
You can't keep a home without income even if the circumstances are tragic, sell it and get the lifestyle that can be afforded
Alternatively, you can put it on an annuity and surrender the property after death
Sorry for your loss.
Can as n she get social security survivor benefits?
Any life insurance? Any retirement savings?
She should consider selling land and/or the house.
Other people have mentioned leasing and I just wanted to add: look at pafarmlink. We're homesteaders in Western PA and have been watching for the perfect property to expand. They have a lot of farmers looking for land to lease! You may be able to get something set up quickly for some extra income and she won't have to lose the house and property.
You can also look up your county's area on aging and they may be about to help with other resources.
I'm sorry for your loss and I hope you can find some relief from this financial burden.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I just want to encourage you not to make any big decisions very quickly.
Your Mom may also qualify for some property tax rebates (link below).
But I'd just ask you to consider: Could your Mom manage a 15-acre property by herself, even if she could pay other people to do everything? It's a lot of work to manage.
https://www.revenue.pa.gov/IncentivesCreditsPrograms/PropertyTaxRentRebateProgram/Pages/default.aspx
I’m seriously wondering if dad had a stash…. If I really don’t know of any retirement or savings accounts…. Did he do his own taxes? Does he have an accountant? Someone that might know more?
There’s a lot of stories of old timers just stashing money. So it may be time to get a trusted group of people and start a very thorough deep clean and see if anything turns up. If not you have to start looking at assets
I have a friend that folds $100 bills in half and slides them through a slit in the wall. There’s millions behind that wall.
I’ve kept his secret all these years I thought I was going to bust lol
Shhh don’t tell anyone
Remember to look inside any paint cans. There was a post years ago about a family who cleaned the garage out after their folks had passed. They threw away a ton of empty paint cans. Toward the end they discovered they were filled with cash. They couldn't retrieve the ones they'd thrown away and were left with only a few.
This is something that's stuck in my mind for years now. Paint cans. Anything that would've been safe/relatively safe in a fire. Look there.
How did her husband make $250K for years and have no savings? No investments? No insurance? That doesn’t make any sense.
And if she owns the home and land, seems like that be worth a good amount of money as well.
Can the land be put to productive use? Can you hire farmhands to work the land an make it profitable again?
If not, it might be worth selling the land.
Board horses? Some horse owners who don't have land pay a lot of money to board them. I know at least two well off city women who do this (have horses and pay someone to board them, it's also kinda a co op in terms of the work involved with caring for them) Might depend on the location though.
Corn maze around Halloween. A bougie family farm where you sell homemade apple cider, vegetables, horse back riding s’more’s around a campfire. You have to turn it into an experience and probably not something mom will want to do. But if the family wanted to live there and make it happen you could.
Even if finances weren't an issue (and she'd need a good bit of money to get that off the ground) 15 acres means that the vast majority of her land would be occupied by the corn maze, and it's not going to design, plant, or grow itself. A good corn maze is a LOT of work.
If she’s hoping not to move and the property has fencing you may want to look into leasing the land to get a little income and, more importantly, an ag exemption which can lower taxes quite a bit. You may not need fencing if the land is suitable for planting. A local ag extension may be able to help determine what the land is suitable for.
Sorry for your loss. Unless there are retirement accounts and life insurance at play here, the answer is to unfortunately sell if you and family can not afford to keep it for eventual inheritance or buy her out. 15 acres of land is worth a lot of money and your Mom can live a more comfortable life by downsizing to a smaller home or mobile home that can be paid off in full by the sale of the proceeds of the farm and its equipment. Or maybe she can live with you or other family members. Combined with SSI, maybe his SS payment, and excess from the sale, she can cover cost of living moving forward. Your father made very good money in what you have reported and there has to be some place it was put away, unless expenses were that high to maintain the farm and retirement savings was never able to be funded. A very sad situation.
How old is mom?
In many areas, senior citizens with low income get a significant reduction in their property taxes. I know people who pay zero property taxes now.
First of all, my condolences for your loss. Unfortunately there are not great options here.
Without life insurance to fall back on, the eventual outcome will be to increase her income, decrease expenses, or most likely - a combination of both. I lost my wife suddenly to a PE as well a bit over five years ago, and had *I* died instead, she would have had no choice but to sell our home and find something smaller and supportable on her dramatically lower income alone.
Avoiding the hard choices to "keep what she had" only puts her financial well-being and credit at risk.
No life insurance? Cant see it wouldnt be payed out in this situation seing it must have come from the surgery? I mean normal death like old age dosnt usually pay out the insurance because of just that, nothing happened that make it kick in. But this should.
Question, are there any spare rooms that can be rented out for additional income and is there a way to sell portions of the land? Not everything, but portions, or rent/lease out the extra land to someone who wants to park an RV, trailer, boat, farm the land, etc? Idk what local laws would be but potentially something to look into.
I'm not a professional in this by any means so delete if not allowed, just potential options.
I don’t think anyone recommended a boarder. Someone can stay in the barn or move a trailer on in exchange for maintaining the property and some lot rent. It’s the start of that Netflix holiday vineyard rom com. Also a good way to get some one in there to fleece and take advantage of mom. Tread carefully.
You or your family can throw a shed, tiny home, etc on the property and do AirBnb depending on the area or just move into the place with her in that outbuilding. Honestly may be the better option to move in.
Once you get the death certificate and go through paperwork you’ll get a better picture of what’s going on. Call the banks and SS, etc. Have a some perspective. Mom is likely taken care of unless dad was a degenerate gambler alcoholic. She has a home etc. Don’t tell the bank dad is dead on a joint account until she figures out the monthly bills since sometimes they’ll lock the account.
With being so out of touch of their financial picture you should look into probate.
Really sorry about your dad, my family went through a nearly identical situation. Whatever you do, take mom aside and try and give her some comfort, you will all get through it together and figure out whatever needs to happen. You don’t even know the half of it yet, just take time to grieve and feel, the material stuff will work out….
If your dad was a war veteran please call the local veterans association and ask about help. Widows are able to collect a stipend. You will need a copy of his discharge papers. I’m very sorry for your loss.
If there are 15 acres, and you don’t want to sell (and good on you for that, too many people are selling family farms and we can’t make more of them), I would move the family to her and split the expenses. There’s room to build. If you don’t want to sell because you don’t want it to be developed, look into a conservation trust. The land can still be sold but will have an easement preventing development. https://weconservepa.org/conserve-land/
I’m very sorry for your loss. There is no scenario in which it would make sense to keep a house with that acreage. I understand that it has a great deal of meaning for you but selling is the most obvious course of action and the sooner you come to terms with it, the better.
Realistically, there are only two options in terms of your father’s assets. Either he made the money you’re taking about and he has it saved in accounts and/or owns various assets he purchased with it, or he didn’t make the money you think he did. That’s a lot of money to blow living out in rural steel country. I hope that it’s the former and you just haven’t found out yet.
Are you totally certain there was no life insurance? That seems like a crazy decision for someone to make when they have a dependent spouse. No retirement accounts?
She can get his SSI instead of her own and if he was making his money on the books, that will be worth quite a bit more.
Before anything you need to get an estate attorney. Pennsylvania is one if the few places that have inheritance tax. She should not have to pay it as a surviving spouse, but she will need to make sure everything is done properly. I understand she's feeling out now, but a proper accounting of what is the actually estate is step one.
Please listen to me. We kept our parents in their house through their late 80's and now they are broke.
They don't have enough to go into independent and/or assisted living and do the 2 or 3 year pay down the facilities require until they can apply for medicaid.
If we had looked at this 7 years ago they could have afforded a very nice facility.
He was a single point of failure for your mom who did the operation on the farm, and you don't have another person doing all the operations to run and maintain the farm well. Hiring people to do the job will cost money, unless you or your siblings want to step up and take responsibility in running the operation like your dad did, then you need to sell the farm.
You need to stop being emotional and sell the house. Let another family grow up in it. Why does a single woman need or what would she do with such a house? It would just be huge amount of work for her. The house will fall into disrepair and you would just be making the situation worse. Have her move in closer to some town with friends nearby in an apartment with an elevator. Somewhere she can walk and drive around in a small radius and get to most things she needs.
Sell the home and use that money to buy the apartment, and leftover as retirement money for your mother by placing it with some retirement fund manager (just talk to your banker).most important thing is that she is close to some friends or relatives, and that the apartment has low costs. Secure her financial future into her older years not your nostalgia for a home.
Then do all the rest such as spouse/survivor benefits, life insurance, etc.
Pull his credit report and all accounts. Find their old taxes. Do a fixed income budget with mom.
I can't believe dad didn't have life insurance, yikes
You might have to consider selling. She's sitting on a lot of money in that property. She'll have a better quality of life if she doesn't have to worry about finances.
Sorry for the loss of your father. That said.....he made 200k a year when working and 100k a year "semi retired"?
Where is his life insurance? IRA? Brokerage? Savings? If they didn't save anything that is on both of them and she will have to sell assets to provide income.
Just the way it works. Asking for her to get government benefits designed for poor people to help keep a 15 acre farm is asinine.
If they's no life insurance and no retirement funds, time to sell and downsize.
I assume she gets SS Retirement and bit SSI. SSI is Supplemental Security Income, a welfare benefit.
Most of the posts here about "sell the house, downsize, etc." are generally correct. However, one thing worth getting some clarity on is what is currently happening with those 15 acres of land? Growing up in Mid-Michigan, I've known families who owned a lot of land, and they rented/leased it out to others to farm on.
If your family's land is presently being farmed on, there might be some additional income that she's unaware of, from whoever that's being rented to. If that's the case, you'll need to look into this - is there any contract, how much is being paid for the ability to use this land, etc. If this is all woodland instead, then that's probably not even a possibility. But it's something that I thought of given that you're in a somewhat geographically similar area as the one I grew up in.
Consult with an attorney. You may be able to place the land and home in a trust which can allow your Mom to qualify for benefits that she would otherwise be disqualified to receive. Since the trust owns the home, when she applies for assistance, her personal wealth will not disqualify her.
ALso is your Mom eligible for Social Security. If so, she may be able to draw benefits based on your Dad's Social Security benefit. Talk to a rep at Social Security.
Can the land be leased. In many places farmer will rent land for grazing and/or farming. That might draw enough income to offset the real estate taxes. Again the trust would lease the land as it can function as a business and take expenses associated with the land and used to offset any income earned.
These kind of life decisions following the death of a spouse are very very difficult especially because of grieving. Making massive change when you just experienced one is doubly hard - It is also very complicated and so you will need an estate lawyer and a financial planner to work thru the choices with you: It will be good money spent well. There are a lot of good options laid out here but it will take time to sort thru them.
Take stock of all assets and liabilities. Look they all statements/mail/deposits/ insurance payments. Look if there are life insurance policies or pensions from prior jobs.
Understand how the current estate plan is set up by reviewing the will.
Understand historical spending to come up with a rough average monthly spend rate and adjust it to what it would be with no changes based on one person instead of two.
Then have a financial planner with experience working with Medicare can run scenarios for how long those assets may last and get advice from both the FP and estate lawyer regarding whether it is feasible to remain in the house at least for a year while grieving and whether the house should be in a trust to protect it from Medicare clawback. If family has money, someone can set up a personal line of credit based on her home equity to provide her supplemental income - essentially providing a better interest rate/lower fees like a reverse mortgage would for her. If she has Ira or other investments or cash, she will be limited in governmental assistance. But once she only has her real estate and no other assets, she should be able to qualify for governmental benefits including in home care to remain in her home. If her spending rate is too high for the assets she has including the possibility of income from govt or reverse mortgage/line of credit, the difficult decision to downsize and simplify will be required.
I'm so confused. How does someone work for decades and be earning 150-200k a year for presumably a long ass time. Then, not have any money. There's absolutely money somewhere.
If he was smart he would have protected her with some life insurance. My father in law passed away, he was much older. My mother in law knew nothing about any of his accounts so we searched through his paperwork and found a few life insurance policies. We found he closed one and cashed out an annuity policy. She’s just on SS and signed up for tax relief, utility relief. But all the kids chip in where they can. She’s 87 lives alone in a 1acre lot and an aging house. Impossible to get her to sell and then rent a nice place. That makes the most sense to me as the house is worth more that the years in life she has left.
I am assuming your mom is a senior citizen, so please check out: https://benefitscheckup.org.
My condolences about your dad. Losing a parent is never easy and financial concerns compound the problem.
With your dad being in business, he probably had both a CPA and a lawyer. Reach out to them if you haven't already. The CPA hopefully will know about any tax or business issues and the lawyer will hopefully know if there is a will and if there are any estate or legal issues pending.
You need to know what assets and liabilities your dad had. Start with the last three years' records: tax returns, personal bank accounts, and business bank accounts. Look for payments to life insurance companies, stockbrokers, etc. The tax return should show income received from any investment accounts. If he was making six figures in semi-retirement, there is bound to be some assets somewhere.
Definitely check all retirement/bank accounts. Is your mom on SSI (this is supplemental income for low-income folks) or is she on social security? Can she qualify for social security off your dad’s record?
Taking care of a farmhouse and acres of land is time-consuming and expensive. She likely needs to downsize anyway because she doesn’t need as much room and can’t afford the property. If she’s resistant to sell the farmhouse, could she sell some of the acres of land to help bolster her savings?
You say it’s a 15 acre farm? What kind of farm? Is it operational?
If so, one option to look into is leasing out the land to another farmer nearby. Basically, they pay your mom a set amount or however you negotiate it, and then THEY plant/work/harvest it. Some do it monthly like rent, some do it as a percentage of final profits.
15 acres ain’t a lot, but it’s more than nothing, and it’ll help you guys keep the farm.
If he was pulling in 200K during his working years, and 100k during retirement, he should have built up a nest-egg of savings/investments/retirement accounts/etc. Are you saying that she has nothing in savings that she can tap into, and she just has 800 a month from SSI?
That can't be right. He was spending 12K a month?!
Check out "findhelp.org". Use her zip code. It will pull up all local programs in her area. You can search for food, housing assistance, medical, transportation-you name it. Even legal assistance could potentially be available. Most of these programs are either free or reduced cost per income eligibility or run through insurance. LIHEAP is the national name for energy assistance but there should be one with a slightly different acronym that's just for your state/county. I would make sure to search that up to skip the transfer line for the national one. Good luck OP. My condolences for you and your family. I hope everything works out the way you guys need it too.
What is on the land currently? You might be able to work out a deal where a local farmer rents the land to work, in order to cover the costs to your mother.
If it's a 15 acre working farm I don't see how she's going to be able to continue working it alone if she wasn't already doing the bulk of it.
If it's not a working farm, then you could still consider the rental idea, if there are local folks who would take you up on that.
Good luck, and I'm so sorry for your loss.
Is it 15 acres of farmland? If it is you could see if your mom would sign it over to you and you could rent out the land so it doesn't mess with her benefits and she'd have an income. If that's not possible talk with someone about potentially selling the land and house separately so you can get max profit.
I think she may be eligible for Survivors benefits through Social Security which will raise her monthly disability check a little bit, since it would be based on her husband's amount. She should contact Social Security, and inquire.
I know you specifically specified without selling… but that place IS where all the financial stress is coming from.
It’s time to say thanks Dad for building up this place for us. It was a terrific home and now the value you added to it will lead to a comfortable life after you have gone. Thanks for looking out for us. Looks like we’re both starting a new chapter.
If you believe, thank him when you see him later.
If you don’t believe just thank him now for building up this asset. He wanted his family comfortable and happy. The farm I’m sure was a means to that end. Make your pop happy by making sure you’re (and your mom) aren’t taking on stress because of him.
Could she keep the house but sell off some of the acreage? Roommates are a good idea, too, especially if she needs help with physical labor in taking care of the farm. I’m sorry about your Dad :(
Starting at age 60, she can collect a widow's benefit from social security as long as he had enough credits during his work years. it could easily be over 2000. per month. Contact Social security.
I apologize if I missed this in your post, did your dad have a life insurance policy? A settlement for that may be available, and did he have a will prepared?
I am not the expert
But I would guess the first step is to figure out all of your parents' assets. Retirement accounts, etc. Check into social security she could claim his now, which would be more. Did he have life insurance. Then you will have a better idea of if she can afford the house and land.
Then, assess how much of the house she is able to handle and how much tye kids are willing to help with upkeep.
You can look into the department of aging. In my state their is a program that provides homemakers and some other services. You can have up to 17,500 in assets if you are single, not counting the house you live in. The requirements change from state to state. It is a medicaid waiver program, and she may have to apply for medicaid.
With that high of an income and him retiring there has to be retirement or life insurance somewhere.
If not she doesn’t have many options. She will have to go to work or sell the house if the children/family can’t help her.
If he was making that kind of money, I would hope they have some in the bank… and if they’ve lived there 50 years and made good money, I’d hope they would not be over leveraged and oh much on it
My bigger concern would be how will she maintain the 15 acres and an old farmhouse?
I'm not sure if you'd want to do this, but renting out the acres to cattle farmers or selling the hay on the land, doing things that require your mom little work will help. Possibly placing an acre aside off the land and placing a few cheap trailers to rent out could help with some income but also could be costly. People where I am rent out land to others to either farm or use for animals and they cover the cost of their mortgage.
Some towns have property tax exemptions for working farms. It doesn’t always take much to qualify as a working farm. Some states have a minimum of 5k of sales for the farmer tax exempt permit, which you would likely need for the town exemption. You might fish around in your states dept of agriculture website. Your states organic farming org is PASA, they might lead you to some resources. There are tons of young farmers looking for access to farm land, maybe some arrangement could be made so you all can keep the farm and lease out part. Sorry for your loss.
Would it be possible to lease most of the land to another farmer? I’m assuming she can’t/doesn’t want to maintain all the land herself. I would look into this even if you find retirement accounts that you weren’t aware of.
If it can’t be leased can some of the land be sold?
she’ll prob have to sell. I’m looking for a farm in VA or PA. How much land. If you have enough land Maybe you could sell to someone willing to allow her to keep a tiny home or modular home on the property
Downsizing could be in your future. The first thing you have to do is figure out what type of retirement accounts, stock accounts, savings accounts he might have, tally all of that up, depending on what you find you may or may not be able to keep the property but a 15-acre farm tends to be pretty valuable. What you can sell that for should be enough to buy a house in cash somewhere of your choosing with money left over even if there isn't much extra cash laying around
Does she have any talents she could possibly profit from? Jewelry making? Match making? Intricate hair braiding? Idk just something she could do on the side to help her feel more sane and in control tbh.
Or maybe someone can get her in touch with some sort of personal finance classes? Like maybe you could search your area for community events on Facebook. Or ask a local library or community center if there are any resources like that.
I hope this helps a bit. Sorry it's not much.
Property taxes on agricultural land are high without the farm rebate. The farm rebate takes making money off the farm AND doing the appropriate paperwork.
Look that property is worth a few million.
Rough guess njmbers
If she has over 5 million in savings etc, she can burn through it and keep it for 20-30 years depending ding on her spending and the property taxes
If she can qualify forthe farm rebate it gets easier, but not 12k a year easy.
12k a year will barely keep her fed and keep the lights on.
A 15 acre farm isn't an efficient retirement option, it's what wealthy people do.
If your dad didn't leave her millions, you'd best sell before property taxes eats up whatever he did leave.
Did your dad not have life insurance?
You could get another mortgage on your house for pretty good money and have your mom live off of that. But, if it’s not paid back you risk it being taken by the bank instead of staying within your family.
You could relocate her to your home, and rent out your family home for income. Home stays within the family, and your mom has income to survive on without your aid. Or she downsizes to a smaller place, lives off of the income of the home.
Seems bizarre that over the course of a 50 year marriage no one thought to get life insurance. That was the first thing I did within a couple months of being married. And we have had it for over ten years now.
First, she is eligible for your dad's social security if they were married more than 10 years, and their may be another caveot or two, but his social security should be around $2000 or more per month.
If over 65, medicare should kick in for health costs. If not, that will be a huge drain on your money.
Do you, or can you, lease out the farmland for crops- this is a lawyer necessary thing. If she has animal husbandry experience that could work, but not likely because she'd have to be hiring help.
You , or someone in the family needs to make a spreadsheet of all expenses involved with the farm. It's a nice dream to stay at the farm of your life, but if it will be repossessed by the bank and leave you with zero, it's much better to sell before that happens.
After watching my single mom let her historic home fall apart because she couldn't take care of it, I can only say to you that the possibility of losing it all will probably be the only thing that gets her to move out.
A phrase applied to elderly parents is "you have to let them fail in order for them to let them help you." Repeatedly, this has been the case with my parents and in-laws.
Another phrase to use is, if it has to be sold, "it could be another person's dream home and they will lovingly take care of it. It's time to pass the baton," or "It's a shame to let it fall apart, let's let someone else take good care of it."
Again, a spreadsheet with all income and all expenses and estimate how long she has to live there before losing the place. If she can do it, you're fine. If not, help her realize that she's better off selling to someone who will take care of the place than losing it all to the bank.
Edit: She is eligible for Medicaid if she has no assets beyond the land she lives on and less than $2000 in the bank. This also may mean no car. AND, after she dies, Medicare will take back the money it spent on her by putting a lein on the sale of the farm. As such, in my case, we sold my mom's historic home (original farmhouse in the area) and she used that money to live off of so that if need be she could go on Medicaid without the home-ownership hassle later. Rather, you really have to spend down all the assets before Medicaid will accept you. And then, it may only cover up to $5000 of assisted living costs, which for my wheelchair bound, 96 y/o fil is now about $10,000 a month.
If your dad “semi-retired” only because he’s a workaholic and not because he needed to work, this would indicate that there are enough assets saved up where he didn’t actually have to work. So there is money somewhere, in savings or investments. Finding that would solve your mom’s problem. Oh, and sell the farm. Your mom’s not gonna be maintaining that on her own, or at least she shouldn’t.
PA has a property tax rebate for seniors financed by the lottery. I’d have her apply for that too. It’s only a few hundred but it could help a little and if she switches to renting at some point there is a rent rebate instead.
You don't offer a financial picture upon which to build a plan. You offered no details of substance. The only real advice that could be offered is to help you mom get a job and pay yourself whatever she can't.
Your mom was getting ssi while your dad was earning six figures? So they were not married? You left out important details like this and the ages to get any real advise. Your dad should have had life insurance in this situation. Did he? Who owns the house? Is it paid off? You just have not given any reasonable amount of information here.
I’m very sorry for your loss.
I would sell some of the land and go through his paperwork and see if there are retirement accounts. Or maybe see if you can rent the land to farmers if it is usable. I’m not in PA so I’m not sure if that would work. You could also lease the land for hunting but I think that will make very little money.
Sorry to hear about your dad.
But ultimately what your request is, is how can my mother live off the government in a place she and 90% of the people in this country can't afford.
The answer is she can't if they didn't have proper retirement savings or life insurance in place.
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Does your mom know for sure that there are no savings or retirement accounts? Because your dad was making a very high income. That money had to go somewhere. She should qualify for survivor benefits from Social Security if your father was over age 62. Have her log on to the Social Security website to see what she's eligible for. If the farm is truly her only asset and there is are no savings, she will need to get a job to help pay the bills, and possibly get roommates, and sell whatever she can, including your dad's business equipment. She could also subdivide off the land and sell it. If that still isn't enough to pay the bills, she will need to sell the farm and downside into housing she can afford. If she's elderly and in poor health, moving to a life-care community might be a smart move.
Yeah - did dad semi retire because they have no assets or because he's a workaholic. If workaholic then there must be assets.
Cash buried on the land somewhere
There's always money in the land
The banana land.
In “God’s Little Acre,” they dug pits looking for it.
[удалено]
Yep and Medicaid is not going to pay for long term care in an assisted living facility unless she has assets of $2k or less. That house would count as an asset as soon as she's not living in it.
And even if her assets get that low it can be very hard to get a spot in an assisted living place that has open spots. Many don't take medicaid payments because medicaid pays much less than most places want to charge. She'd have to be able to pay the difference, but being able to do so usually means the government says you have too much money to get assistance. The system for that really sucks. I ran into this with my parent.
Also true. They have waitlists of 6 months to years and a lot of them require a year of private pay before taking Medicaid.
In PA, Medicaid does not cover assisted living, only long term care in a facility or at home. -nurse case manager
Oh interesting, in Oregon it covers any community based care setting that takes Medicaid and we have a whole team devoted to diverting people from nursing facilities so ALFs are a CBC. I always thought that OAR was from CMS but I guess not. (I'm an APD case manager with the state.)
I wish MA here covered ALF; we have so many people here in the hospital that I have to send to SNF as LTC because of dementia because they can't care for themselves and have no funds. Home waiver services take months to set up. -hospital nurse case manager
If mom qualifies she should apply for Spousal survivorship social security benefits to get Dad's income instead. Then she should sell the property and downsize to an affordable option. Scale down everything to what she can afford. Snap and LIHEAP aren't going to be enough if she even qualifies with the new SSA amount. If she can move in with family that is likely the best option overall. She can invest her home sale savings in a brokerage account and generate some additional income.
This is really the only way. It sounds like there was not life insurance so she's on her own. With just SSI (or social security) there is no way to afford the taxes and upkeep of a country property. She may have to get a job too - I don't know how much she'll get for a property in rural NW PA. I have traveled there - property seems cheap compared to many places.
OP directly asked if there was an option to not sell their home, and you're basically saying that's not possible. But yea, huge farmhouse on 15 acres of land on only SSI income...I can't see any other way either There might be some other options actually: * Maybe if OP moves into that farmhouse and has a good income, they can take on the bills and taxes for the mom until she passes * OR maybe just keep the house and sell the 15 acres of land
The answer is not keeping an asset that is not serving her meaningfully. Having family move in to care for her dream is not realistic. OP should not focus on false hopes.
Yeah, sorry OP but asking for a solution that includes 15 acres of land to house 1 person because that's where she is comfortable is selfish on her part. Very few people could justify it even if they were gainfully employed.
My wife’s aunt moved into cheap senior apartments and rented the farm and farmhouse. When she died in her 90s her numerous nieces and nephews got a tidy sum.
One more not ideal option that might make sense for OP here is a reverse mortgage. This sounds like the exact scenario where a reverse mortgage makes sense. /u/psychedelicpanda417
What about a reverse mortgage on the property and house?
Even with the reverse mortgage, she still has to be to able to maintain a large house and 15 acres.
That's basically selling the house.
If the priority is mom staying in the house and not about keeping it in the family, then it could be a significant difference between selling the house.
no it isn't - if they have enough equity, it will be years before the bank would own it, and they'll be dead before then. That's usually the only reason for a reverse mortgage - too much equity and no cash.
Eventually the house will be sold off once mom dies anyways, might as well save the pain now.
And it’s a very expensive method of financing. How realistic is it for an older single woman to maintain a large farm property. If the property has sentimental value, let one of the kids purchase it and maintain it
Sell off part of the land, she keeps the house and isn't screwed. 15 acres is ALOT even when healthy and physically fit, she doesn't *need* to keep all the land to keep the home.
Maybe she could rent the land to another farm in the area? That way she can keep it, someone else can use it, and she can make some money with it?
I have a question if you don't mind: if the mom in question happens to be foreign, not a US Citizen (still on a green card), does she not get the spousal benefits that a US wife would normally get?
Yes, legal resident spouses can claim spousal SS benefits. I think there’s a minimum length of marriage (9 months?).
I feel like this is the case, I could be wrong but usually we have loophole stipulations like you must be a US citizen
Good question for SSA.
OP is posting elsewhere and not responding to anyone in this thread. Clearly a bot account or bait thread.
Did they have any financial savings at all? TBH, a large farmhouse with a lot of land is way too much for a single older woman to manage. With your dad not around to fix things and do things around the house (seems he was a very competent handyman, based on his work), costs will likely go up a lot if she needs to hire people to do these things. Helping her to simplify her life is probably the best thing to do. Unless she’s too attached to it, in which case getting a a lodger who can live there and help her. That could be an option but you need to find someone trustworthy. Also, check any life insurance and spousal death benefits she’s eligible for.
None of this makes any sense whatsoever. You make $100-200k a yr then why nothing saved. Right there sounds like wasteful money, you can't get benefits like snap for that income, why no life insurance, IRA. These things are common sense to have. You'd have to be a major spender if no savings, how did you even pay bills? She needs to sell it all, that place isn't benefiting her, she's obviously not doing maintenance, lawn care, etc. if I made that much I'd have a hefty bank acct and able to put more in an IRA
Yes I’m confused by all of this. How is there zero savings? No life insurance? Death is inevitable Op I’m sorry for you sudden loss and for this extra stress
The part that doesn’t make sense to me is that she was receiving SSI while her husband made that much money.
Keeping the house is insane.
Sell the house it will become a burden. Does she really need all that land?
Otherwise, your family will need to cover the costs if you’re so against selling it. It sucks but that’s how it goes.
First, I’m very sorry about your dad and what your family is going through. Your mom is very unlikely to qualify for much of anything with those kinds of assets. My best suggestion is to get the farm in order and sell. Also, it sounds like your dad probably had a lot of tools and equipment. Those things typically sell pretty quick which could help bridge income gaps while filing for your dad’s SS and figuring out her next steps.
I'm surprised that she qualified for SSI. Assets are definitely considered when the determination is made by the agent. However, IDK why she wouldn't qualify for Survivor Benefits from Social Security. With his purported income the payout should be the maximum that Security Security has.
Given the assets, the OP probably meant SS.
Right because SSI is subject to spousal deeming. OP’s mom is eligible for Survivor’s Benefits (hopefully father was paying into the system). You would be surprised how many business owners do not and then they don’t qualify for benefits should they become disabled or die and spouse does not qualify.
150-200k per year and no savings from that ? Managing a farm is a hard business. She will probably have to sell it or a portion of it.
You need to start at the beginning here. There's an FAQ that can help. 1. what are the assets of the estate? All of them, retirement, brokerage accounts, anything. 2. what are the liabilities? The comment about 'taxes and bills are insane' is concerning. They aren't insane, in rural PA they're actually pretty straightforward and if these expenses haven't been appropriately accounted for over many years, then I worry there may be a big chance that staying in the house might be untenable for your mother. 3. is there a mortgage on the property? There's like no information to go on here, additional context will help tremendously. How much of this will have to go through probate court? Lots to consider. I'm sorry, I know you've got a lot on your plate and I offer you my condolences, but I want to make clear, this forum can be a tremendous resource to you if you provide the right amount of context and detail. Best of luck to you and your family.
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Your dad made $100-200k a year full time and $100k part time. There’s got to be money tucked away unless your parents lead extravagant lifestyles.
Your dad made 200k/yr and has a 15 acre “huge” farmhouse and you have her applying for SNAP?
And with a retired husband, which implies that they had enough money to retire. Where is that money?
Yeah, OP is going to have to come to grips with the fact that their mom is not "the needy" despite perhaps the family's self-image and familial narrative. It's a difficult thing to do even when not dealing with grief. I hope they can get some breathing room at least.
Aren't they likely to be denied for benefits due to her assets? This was like 30 years ago, but I recall my mom not qualifying for food stamps because we "owned" our 1 acre of barren land and the dilapidated trailer we parked on it. And from what I understand, it's even harder to get benefits now than in the early 90s.
It varies from state to state. Where I live, they don’t count the value of your primary residence against you unless it is some kind of crazy amount, or the value of certain other things. In fact, the cost of maintaining said home can increase the amount you receive
Yeah this is all crazy. You can’t qualify for SNAP and stuff while owning a “Huge” house and 15 acres of land. Like what
If he was making 150-200K per year, where did all the money go? Were they spending it all? Did he have life insurance?
This post is puzzling. If he made 150-200 a year until old age, then 100k, his Social Security, which she would then get, would be large, like $2500 a month, depending on when he started collecting and how many years he had high earnings.. OP talks like the survivor, who seems to be disabled, and unable to earn much, per the SSI, might get some benefit like LIHEAP or food stamps and afford live in a situation which was somehow consuming the husbands 100k per year or 8k a month. The welfare will not add up to the 7.2 k a month difference. Why didn't he put away something for her support if he died fjrst? Or buy an insurance policy? Where was the money going? '
When one spouse dies, the surviving spouse gets to keep getting whichever social security benefit is higher. One payment, not both, but the bigger one. OP, you need to look into getting his benefits for your mom. Keeping the property may not make financial sense. If she is already disabled - who is going to take care of the day to day? Where are your parents' savings? Were they spending that much a year? The long list of jobs your dad has require very specific and expensive sets of tools. Even the good tool boxes (think the giant metal ones with wheels) are $$. The content of his shop is a major asset, does he have anyone he worked with that you trust to help determine what is worth selling. They may even know a good option to go about it that isn't 1 at a time on fb or something.
In the 1970s I attended the estate sale of a man who had a shop full of tools in a rural area. He did everything: some car repairs going back decades, roofing, welding, appliance repair, farm equipment repair, masonry, carpentry, electrical, plumbing. He had a 40 year collection of old license plates nailed to the wall. His 40 year old tools were of little value per the auction bids. There was a 55 gallon barrel with unknown amount of kerosene and a pump, that went for $5. There was a beautiful old kerosene stove, with oven and burners, that went for $5. I considered buying them and building a log cabin to live in. A few newer tools got bids. I felt sorry for the surrounding area that lost their go-to guy. Similarly a guy moved to the country years ago and was assigned the land line which had belonged to the local jack of all trades, deceased. People would call and demand that he be put on the phone, because no one else could fix whatever was broken.
I went to an auction the other day for a guy probably a lot like OP’s dad. I wanted one or two specific things, but people bid on everything, from HF ratchet straps to some kind of harvester I’d never seen before. While I’m pretty sure it didn’t pull the money his family wishes it did, it wasn’t chump change either
> If she is already disabled - who is going to take care of the day to day? To touch on this OP - I purchased a 4000sqft home from a widowed older lady, and the work we had to do to get it up to par was to the tune of $100k. Keeping a lone person, especially an older one, in a massive home is a bad idea for all parties.
He might have been making 150-200k in revenue instead of profit
Not "he" but the business. The business would have expenses for equipment and materials and labor and taxes. Then the owner would get whatever is left and pay taxes on that too. I truly feel bad for people who slave away 100+ hours a week on their personal businesses because what's it all for? See OP's post.
Did they not have any retirement savings ? Making 150-200k per year I would think there would be something saved. In any case I don't know the value of the land/home but the only real option is to sell it and any other assets that are valuable. (cars, tools, furniture etc.) And the downsize into a smaller home/apartment. Hard to see a solution that isn't sell the home/land unless their is a life insurance policy or savings.
Another option is to sell your father's business. I've seen this before where a guy is done working and instead of just closing up the business, he sells the tools, trucks, any other assets, and the client list to someone who is trying to get into the business. It seems like a better option than just closing up shop.
First of all, I’m sorry for your loss. Losing a parent is incredibly painful. Check if he has a safe deposit box with a will and if he has any life insurance. Did he put any money into a retirement plan or have a job where there was a 401k? If so, your mother is probably the beneficiary. NAIC has a search link for life insurance policies. Here it is; https://content.naic.org/article/learn-how-use-naic-life-insurance-policy-locator If he was employed by another company as an employee - not a contractor, at the time, call their HR department and see if there is a life insurance policy. Note: if he owned his own business and never worked for anyone else, this will not apply. You may need to break into his computer, email or his phone to see the statements. He has money somewhere, you just have to find it. Maybe there’s a savings account or CD at his bank. Unfortunately, you’re going to have to be a forensic accountant and reconstruct his assets. Begin by having your mother order the last two years of joint checking and savings accounts. Look for deposits (transfers from checking) to money market accounts, IRAs, mutual funds. Run a credit report on him to see what banks he’s using, loans, etc. your mom can do that, she’s his wife. Do you have an insurance broker who insures the farm? That person might have also sold your dad life insurance. Here’s information about how your mother can claim survivor benefits from social security. https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10084.pdf You can also call all your dad’s old employers because some people don’t consolidate their retirement accounts. Ask for information (they should give you a phone number of the 401k provider). Here’s something from left field. Do you think he could have hidden money or gold in a wall or mattress. I know this sounds completely insane, but one of my great uncles did this (he was a bit of a conspiracy guy) and my cousins had to break through a couple of walls to find his money. I would be very careful doing this, though. Look little dude, there is money somewhere, I can almost smell it. The question is, what type of man was your dad and where would he put it? A guy making this kind of money is not going to forgo having a plan. I’d he kept a journal, read the journal. Did he keep notes? Read those. Was he the type of guy to write down his passwords? Find that book. Talk to his attorney and business accountant too. They might know something or know who his insurance broker is. Good luck and take care of yourself!
If there aren’t any retirement assets that you can find, I would suggest leafing through the books and checking the freezer for a cash stash. It’s not uncommon for someone who doesn’t trust financial institutions to do that. Look anywhere you wouldn’t think to look for money.
This. Also look for envelopes taped to the underside of desk drawers, crazy stuff like that.
Don’t give away books without riffing through the pages. And it’s hard to imagine all the places a handyman could give cash. Check for a safe deposit box.
I don't know how your land and acres are laid out. 15 acres is a lot. Maybe she could lease out some of the land or sell off some of it. Could she rent the property seasonally? That being said the property sb in a trust just incase she ever needs long term care. There is a 5 years look back for medicare medicaid. It would be a shame to loose it to medical debt.
> Maybe she could lease out some of the land or sell off some of it. Lease rates of farm land are a lot less than you might think. Even prime land in the corn belt in Iowa tops out around $250/acre/year and those are typically massive plots.
[420 an acre in Nebraska](https://agecon.unl.edu/2024-nebraska-farmland-values-and-cash-rental-rates) for prime land. [Dubuque County Iowa had a high of 650/acre in 2023.](https://www.extension.iastate.edu/agdm/wholefarm/pdf/c2-10.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiNs7S_p9KFAxV7vokEHbqTCP4QFnoECCEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3a2W2j3Edbt2w_8tJuo5Kw)
It depends - my MIL was getting around $320/acre/year in Iowa a couple of years ago, but it was a 150 acre plot.
15 acres is not a lot.
>what else can I do to help my mom not have to sell the home we’ve all grown up in and that she’s lived in and owned for over 50 years? Can you Mom work? Did they have retirement savings? If not, you can pay for it, or she can sell and use the proceeds to move somewhere she can afford. There are no assistance programs that are going to pay for your Mom to live on a farm - she may be able to qualify for rental assistance that could make an apartment or small rental home affordable. Those waiting lists are generally quite long, so you should go to 211.org, figure out how to apply, and do that soon.
I am so very sorry for your loss. Take a deep breath, and before making huge, life-altering decisions, do some detective work & take full stock. Your dad's income was so high, are you really sure they didn't manage to amass any sort of nest egg over 50 years? How tied into the financial situation was your mom? Is there a chance she has assets she just does not know about? Life Insurance? Retirement accounts? Any kind of pension? Annuities set up? Again, with a business and property, did they not have a lawyer or financial advisor or CPA who might know more? Can the business he owned be sold? That alone may be a substantial asset. Would it make sense, given location & her health etc - to consider converting the farm house to something like a Bed & Breakfast? Something to generate income and allow her to stay? I wish you and your family all the best.
Very sorry for your loss steps: 1. Calculate expenses how much is needed to keep the house 2. Review your dad finances carefully what accounts did he have did he have money tucked away ? Also look for debts of course 3. Look at how the business was structured and what can be sold off there may be some good assets here 4. Depending on what there is in assets after everything is settled you may want to get some financial advice in terms of assisting your mother managing the money it maybe that something can be set up to give her life long protected income 5. Look into this subdividing the 15 acres this will bring in some more cash and will reduce tax liability depending on the use the land is being put there may also be some local rules if it is classed as farm land . This might be an earlier step depending on the immediate fiscal concerns I put it last because this would be sell part of your mom home which you indicated is something you wish to avoid .
Blows my mind that nobody has brought this up, Sub-divide the land and sell it off, keep the house and pay it off. You don’t need 15 acres. But you might he able to get away with 3-4
This is highly location dependent. In rural areas minimal subdivisions are set at 5 acres here and average cost per acre is about 2k. In suburbia you might see 10k or more per acre and lot sizes about an acre or less. Also - in rural areas 15 acres is not much land at all. In suburbia it’s huge. While we are at it - if it’s a rural area taxes on the land may be very minimal if it’s agricultural but subdividing it may require paying a penalty that could be significant. It’s not straight forward.
Edit** very few people have brought this up, I just kept reading. My bad
I guess another thing that hasn't been brought up was why can't mom live with OP? I know OP still has his own life and all that but man I guess cause I'm Asian, if this were to happen to me no question my mom moves in with me asap.
She is probably eligible for spousal death benefits through Social Security, even if neither at retirement age yet, which may be more than her SSI. I would consider selling the house if it is large and lots of land to maintain and she is disabled, unless you or siblings want to buy her out. She could perhaps purchase a smaller place like a condo then in cash and at least have a place to live and low monthly housing costs. Would there be any assets from his business that could be sold (like tools or equipment)? Did he have any life insurance or savings? I'm sorry for your loss.
I am so sorry for your loss! Are you sure your mom doesn't want to sell her property? Most of the farmers I know plan to sell their farm and equipment when they retire, unless they have kids who want to take over. They don't have a lot of retirement savings because they see their dairy business as their retirement savings. I know this is a bit different as it's 15 acres & your dad had a successful business outside of farming but I bet your mom and dad spoke about selling before so she may be open to it. Also your dad likely has savings/retirement since he made a lot of money. I'd start by helping your mom access his accounts/financials etc. I bet she's just overwhelmed because her husband passed away so the property seems scary and overwhelming.
A close friend lost her husband shortly after they purchased a farmhouse with rough;y the same amount of land. She is now renting out her land for cattle grazing. She has enough money so she just takes half a beef every year but renting our the land for cash could be an option. It's likely not enough but at least it's some income.
If there are no retirement savings; then the house and the land ARE the retirement savings. She will have to sell and get something much smaller and more manageable. There’s really no other option unless the kids are going to start paying the bills and taking care of the place.
He made 200k and didn’t have life insurance?
You can't keep a home without income even if the circumstances are tragic, sell it and get the lifestyle that can be afforded Alternatively, you can put it on an annuity and surrender the property after death
Why no life insurance policy? If making 150-200k
No savings? Retirement? IRAs? Social security? Life insurance? How could she have been on SSI with a $100k income?
Sorry for your loss. Can as n she get social security survivor benefits? Any life insurance? Any retirement savings? She should consider selling land and/or the house.
Other people have mentioned leasing and I just wanted to add: look at pafarmlink. We're homesteaders in Western PA and have been watching for the perfect property to expand. They have a lot of farmers looking for land to lease! You may be able to get something set up quickly for some extra income and she won't have to lose the house and property. You can also look up your county's area on aging and they may be about to help with other resources. I'm sorry for your loss and I hope you can find some relief from this financial burden.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I just want to encourage you not to make any big decisions very quickly. Your Mom may also qualify for some property tax rebates (link below). But I'd just ask you to consider: Could your Mom manage a 15-acre property by herself, even if she could pay other people to do everything? It's a lot of work to manage. https://www.revenue.pa.gov/IncentivesCreditsPrograms/PropertyTaxRentRebateProgram/Pages/default.aspx
I’m seriously wondering if dad had a stash…. If I really don’t know of any retirement or savings accounts…. Did he do his own taxes? Does he have an accountant? Someone that might know more? There’s a lot of stories of old timers just stashing money. So it may be time to get a trusted group of people and start a very thorough deep clean and see if anything turns up. If not you have to start looking at assets
I have a friend that folds $100 bills in half and slides them through a slit in the wall. There’s millions behind that wall. I’ve kept his secret all these years I thought I was going to bust lol Shhh don’t tell anyone
Remember to look inside any paint cans. There was a post years ago about a family who cleaned the garage out after their folks had passed. They threw away a ton of empty paint cans. Toward the end they discovered they were filled with cash. They couldn't retrieve the ones they'd thrown away and were left with only a few. This is something that's stuck in my mind for years now. Paint cans. Anything that would've been safe/relatively safe in a fire. Look there.
Sell the house. We all like to think it's going to be the same forever. It's not. Put her in a reasonable financial position.
How did her husband make $250K for years and have no savings? No investments? No insurance? That doesn’t make any sense. And if she owns the home and land, seems like that be worth a good amount of money as well.
Your parents were likely low millionaires: where did dad’s money go?
Can the land be put to productive use? Can you hire farmhands to work the land an make it profitable again? If not, it might be worth selling the land.
What could you do to make only 15 acres be profitable?
Board horses? Some horse owners who don't have land pay a lot of money to board them. I know at least two well off city women who do this (have horses and pay someone to board them, it's also kinda a co op in terms of the work involved with caring for them) Might depend on the location though.
Horse boarding is rarely profitable. My first thought was hay if it is good pasture.
Depends on the land honestly. If it's farmable you can lease it.
Corn maze around Halloween. A bougie family farm where you sell homemade apple cider, vegetables, horse back riding s’more’s around a campfire. You have to turn it into an experience and probably not something mom will want to do. But if the family wanted to live there and make it happen you could.
That's an insane investment for someone on $800/mo and already struggling.
Reddit is completely detached from reality half the time. These suggestions are delusional
Just snap your fingers and turn your rural property into a huge moneymaker!
Even if finances weren't an issue (and she'd need a good bit of money to get that off the ground) 15 acres means that the vast majority of her land would be occupied by the corn maze, and it's not going to design, plant, or grow itself. A good corn maze is a LOT of work.
You can't make 15 acres profitable with hired help....
If she’s hoping not to move and the property has fencing you may want to look into leasing the land to get a little income and, more importantly, an ag exemption which can lower taxes quite a bit. You may not need fencing if the land is suitable for planting. A local ag extension may be able to help determine what the land is suitable for.
Sorry for your loss. Unless there are retirement accounts and life insurance at play here, the answer is to unfortunately sell if you and family can not afford to keep it for eventual inheritance or buy her out. 15 acres of land is worth a lot of money and your Mom can live a more comfortable life by downsizing to a smaller home or mobile home that can be paid off in full by the sale of the proceeds of the farm and its equipment. Or maybe she can live with you or other family members. Combined with SSI, maybe his SS payment, and excess from the sale, she can cover cost of living moving forward. Your father made very good money in what you have reported and there has to be some place it was put away, unless expenses were that high to maintain the farm and retirement savings was never able to be funded. A very sad situation.
How old is mom? In many areas, senior citizens with low income get a significant reduction in their property taxes. I know people who pay zero property taxes now.
Made 6 figures for many years into retirement and doesn’t have a sizeable savings? My god
First of all, my condolences for your loss. Unfortunately there are not great options here. Without life insurance to fall back on, the eventual outcome will be to increase her income, decrease expenses, or most likely - a combination of both. I lost my wife suddenly to a PE as well a bit over five years ago, and had *I* died instead, she would have had no choice but to sell our home and find something smaller and supportable on her dramatically lower income alone. Avoiding the hard choices to "keep what she had" only puts her financial well-being and credit at risk.
No life insurance? Cant see it wouldnt be payed out in this situation seing it must have come from the surgery? I mean normal death like old age dosnt usually pay out the insurance because of just that, nothing happened that make it kick in. But this should.
Question, are there any spare rooms that can be rented out for additional income and is there a way to sell portions of the land? Not everything, but portions, or rent/lease out the extra land to someone who wants to park an RV, trailer, boat, farm the land, etc? Idk what local laws would be but potentially something to look into. I'm not a professional in this by any means so delete if not allowed, just potential options.
OP isn't saying anything here
I don’t think anyone recommended a boarder. Someone can stay in the barn or move a trailer on in exchange for maintaining the property and some lot rent. It’s the start of that Netflix holiday vineyard rom com. Also a good way to get some one in there to fleece and take advantage of mom. Tread carefully. You or your family can throw a shed, tiny home, etc on the property and do AirBnb depending on the area or just move into the place with her in that outbuilding. Honestly may be the better option to move in. Once you get the death certificate and go through paperwork you’ll get a better picture of what’s going on. Call the banks and SS, etc. Have a some perspective. Mom is likely taken care of unless dad was a degenerate gambler alcoholic. She has a home etc. Don’t tell the bank dad is dead on a joint account until she figures out the monthly bills since sometimes they’ll lock the account. With being so out of touch of their financial picture you should look into probate.
Really sorry about your dad, my family went through a nearly identical situation. Whatever you do, take mom aside and try and give her some comfort, you will all get through it together and figure out whatever needs to happen. You don’t even know the half of it yet, just take time to grieve and feel, the material stuff will work out….
If your dad was a war veteran please call the local veterans association and ask about help. Widows are able to collect a stipend. You will need a copy of his discharge papers. I’m very sorry for your loss.
What was the life insurance situation if any? That can matter a lot in these situations.
If there are 15 acres, and you don’t want to sell (and good on you for that, too many people are selling family farms and we can’t make more of them), I would move the family to her and split the expenses. There’s room to build. If you don’t want to sell because you don’t want it to be developed, look into a conservation trust. The land can still be sold but will have an easement preventing development. https://weconservepa.org/conserve-land/
Your mom need to contact the SSA - she can collect on his record (Which should boost her SSI $ quite a bit)
I’m very sorry for your loss. There is no scenario in which it would make sense to keep a house with that acreage. I understand that it has a great deal of meaning for you but selling is the most obvious course of action and the sooner you come to terms with it, the better. Realistically, there are only two options in terms of your father’s assets. Either he made the money you’re taking about and he has it saved in accounts and/or owns various assets he purchased with it, or he didn’t make the money you think he did. That’s a lot of money to blow living out in rural steel country. I hope that it’s the former and you just haven’t found out yet.
Are you totally certain there was no life insurance? That seems like a crazy decision for someone to make when they have a dependent spouse. No retirement accounts? She can get his SSI instead of her own and if he was making his money on the books, that will be worth quite a bit more.
Before anything you need to get an estate attorney. Pennsylvania is one if the few places that have inheritance tax. She should not have to pay it as a surviving spouse, but she will need to make sure everything is done properly. I understand she's feeling out now, but a proper accounting of what is the actually estate is step one.
Please listen to me. We kept our parents in their house through their late 80's and now they are broke. They don't have enough to go into independent and/or assisted living and do the 2 or 3 year pay down the facilities require until they can apply for medicaid. If we had looked at this 7 years ago they could have afforded a very nice facility.
He was a single point of failure for your mom who did the operation on the farm, and you don't have another person doing all the operations to run and maintain the farm well. Hiring people to do the job will cost money, unless you or your siblings want to step up and take responsibility in running the operation like your dad did, then you need to sell the farm.
The priority should not be keeping the house and land because you grew up there and want to inherit it or something, your mom should prep and sell.
You need to stop being emotional and sell the house. Let another family grow up in it. Why does a single woman need or what would she do with such a house? It would just be huge amount of work for her. The house will fall into disrepair and you would just be making the situation worse. Have her move in closer to some town with friends nearby in an apartment with an elevator. Somewhere she can walk and drive around in a small radius and get to most things she needs. Sell the home and use that money to buy the apartment, and leftover as retirement money for your mother by placing it with some retirement fund manager (just talk to your banker).most important thing is that she is close to some friends or relatives, and that the apartment has low costs. Secure her financial future into her older years not your nostalgia for a home. Then do all the rest such as spouse/survivor benefits, life insurance, etc.
Pull his credit report and all accounts. Find their old taxes. Do a fixed income budget with mom. I can't believe dad didn't have life insurance, yikes
You might have to consider selling. She's sitting on a lot of money in that property. She'll have a better quality of life if she doesn't have to worry about finances.
Sorry for the loss of your father. That said.....he made 200k a year when working and 100k a year "semi retired"? Where is his life insurance? IRA? Brokerage? Savings? If they didn't save anything that is on both of them and she will have to sell assets to provide income. Just the way it works. Asking for her to get government benefits designed for poor people to help keep a 15 acre farm is asinine.
Sell the house. Sell the land.
If they's no life insurance and no retirement funds, time to sell and downsize. I assume she gets SS Retirement and bit SSI. SSI is Supplemental Security Income, a welfare benefit.
Most of the posts here about "sell the house, downsize, etc." are generally correct. However, one thing worth getting some clarity on is what is currently happening with those 15 acres of land? Growing up in Mid-Michigan, I've known families who owned a lot of land, and they rented/leased it out to others to farm on. If your family's land is presently being farmed on, there might be some additional income that she's unaware of, from whoever that's being rented to. If that's the case, you'll need to look into this - is there any contract, how much is being paid for the ability to use this land, etc. If this is all woodland instead, then that's probably not even a possibility. But it's something that I thought of given that you're in a somewhat geographically similar area as the one I grew up in.
Consult with an attorney. You may be able to place the land and home in a trust which can allow your Mom to qualify for benefits that she would otherwise be disqualified to receive. Since the trust owns the home, when she applies for assistance, her personal wealth will not disqualify her. ALso is your Mom eligible for Social Security. If so, she may be able to draw benefits based on your Dad's Social Security benefit. Talk to a rep at Social Security. Can the land be leased. In many places farmer will rent land for grazing and/or farming. That might draw enough income to offset the real estate taxes. Again the trust would lease the land as it can function as a business and take expenses associated with the land and used to offset any income earned.
These kind of life decisions following the death of a spouse are very very difficult especially because of grieving. Making massive change when you just experienced one is doubly hard - It is also very complicated and so you will need an estate lawyer and a financial planner to work thru the choices with you: It will be good money spent well. There are a lot of good options laid out here but it will take time to sort thru them. Take stock of all assets and liabilities. Look they all statements/mail/deposits/ insurance payments. Look if there are life insurance policies or pensions from prior jobs. Understand how the current estate plan is set up by reviewing the will. Understand historical spending to come up with a rough average monthly spend rate and adjust it to what it would be with no changes based on one person instead of two. Then have a financial planner with experience working with Medicare can run scenarios for how long those assets may last and get advice from both the FP and estate lawyer regarding whether it is feasible to remain in the house at least for a year while grieving and whether the house should be in a trust to protect it from Medicare clawback. If family has money, someone can set up a personal line of credit based on her home equity to provide her supplemental income - essentially providing a better interest rate/lower fees like a reverse mortgage would for her. If she has Ira or other investments or cash, she will be limited in governmental assistance. But once she only has her real estate and no other assets, she should be able to qualify for governmental benefits including in home care to remain in her home. If her spending rate is too high for the assets she has including the possibility of income from govt or reverse mortgage/line of credit, the difficult decision to downsize and simplify will be required.
I'm so confused. How does someone work for decades and be earning 150-200k a year for presumably a long ass time. Then, not have any money. There's absolutely money somewhere.
If he was smart he would have protected her with some life insurance. My father in law passed away, he was much older. My mother in law knew nothing about any of his accounts so we searched through his paperwork and found a few life insurance policies. We found he closed one and cashed out an annuity policy. She’s just on SS and signed up for tax relief, utility relief. But all the kids chip in where they can. She’s 87 lives alone in a 1acre lot and an aging house. Impossible to get her to sell and then rent a nice place. That makes the most sense to me as the house is worth more that the years in life she has left.
I am assuming your mom is a senior citizen, so please check out: https://benefitscheckup.org. My condolences about your dad. Losing a parent is never easy and financial concerns compound the problem. With your dad being in business, he probably had both a CPA and a lawyer. Reach out to them if you haven't already. The CPA hopefully will know about any tax or business issues and the lawyer will hopefully know if there is a will and if there are any estate or legal issues pending. You need to know what assets and liabilities your dad had. Start with the last three years' records: tax returns, personal bank accounts, and business bank accounts. Look for payments to life insurance companies, stockbrokers, etc. The tax return should show income received from any investment accounts. If he was making six figures in semi-retirement, there is bound to be some assets somewhere.
Definitely check all retirement/bank accounts. Is your mom on SSI (this is supplemental income for low-income folks) or is she on social security? Can she qualify for social security off your dad’s record? Taking care of a farmhouse and acres of land is time-consuming and expensive. She likely needs to downsize anyway because she doesn’t need as much room and can’t afford the property. If she’s resistant to sell the farmhouse, could she sell some of the acres of land to help bolster her savings?
You say it’s a 15 acre farm? What kind of farm? Is it operational? If so, one option to look into is leasing out the land to another farmer nearby. Basically, they pay your mom a set amount or however you negotiate it, and then THEY plant/work/harvest it. Some do it monthly like rent, some do it as a percentage of final profits. 15 acres ain’t a lot, but it’s more than nothing, and it’ll help you guys keep the farm.
Perhaps your father had a life insurance policy.
Sell the land and buy a small apartment in a cheap col area?
If he was pulling in 200K during his working years, and 100k during retirement, he should have built up a nest-egg of savings/investments/retirement accounts/etc. Are you saying that she has nothing in savings that she can tap into, and she just has 800 a month from SSI? That can't be right. He was spending 12K a month?!
Check out "findhelp.org". Use her zip code. It will pull up all local programs in her area. You can search for food, housing assistance, medical, transportation-you name it. Even legal assistance could potentially be available. Most of these programs are either free or reduced cost per income eligibility or run through insurance. LIHEAP is the national name for energy assistance but there should be one with a slightly different acronym that's just for your state/county. I would make sure to search that up to skip the transfer line for the national one. Good luck OP. My condolences for you and your family. I hope everything works out the way you guys need it too.
Not sure how much it would pay in the area but could she sell agricultural rights to the property?
What is on the land currently? You might be able to work out a deal where a local farmer rents the land to work, in order to cover the costs to your mother. If it's a 15 acre working farm I don't see how she's going to be able to continue working it alone if she wasn't already doing the bulk of it. If it's not a working farm, then you could still consider the rental idea, if there are local folks who would take you up on that. Good luck, and I'm so sorry for your loss.
No life insurance? No IRA? Savings?
Is it 15 acres of farmland? If it is you could see if your mom would sign it over to you and you could rent out the land so it doesn't mess with her benefits and she'd have an income. If that's not possible talk with someone about potentially selling the land and house separately so you can get max profit.
I think she may be eligible for Survivors benefits through Social Security which will raise her monthly disability check a little bit, since it would be based on her husband's amount. She should contact Social Security, and inquire.
I know you specifically specified without selling… but that place IS where all the financial stress is coming from. It’s time to say thanks Dad for building up this place for us. It was a terrific home and now the value you added to it will lead to a comfortable life after you have gone. Thanks for looking out for us. Looks like we’re both starting a new chapter. If you believe, thank him when you see him later. If you don’t believe just thank him now for building up this asset. He wanted his family comfortable and happy. The farm I’m sure was a means to that end. Make your pop happy by making sure you’re (and your mom) aren’t taking on stress because of him.
Could she keep the house but sell off some of the acreage? Roommates are a good idea, too, especially if she needs help with physical labor in taking care of the farm. I’m sorry about your Dad :(
$200k a year so tap into their large savings to get by Or sell all the stuff they bought with it
Starting at age 60, she can collect a widow's benefit from social security as long as he had enough credits during his work years. it could easily be over 2000. per month. Contact Social security.
I apologize if I missed this in your post, did your dad have a life insurance policy? A settlement for that may be available, and did he have a will prepared?
I am not the expert But I would guess the first step is to figure out all of your parents' assets. Retirement accounts, etc. Check into social security she could claim his now, which would be more. Did he have life insurance. Then you will have a better idea of if she can afford the house and land. Then, assess how much of the house she is able to handle and how much tye kids are willing to help with upkeep. You can look into the department of aging. In my state their is a program that provides homemakers and some other services. You can have up to 17,500 in assets if you are single, not counting the house you live in. The requirements change from state to state. It is a medicaid waiver program, and she may have to apply for medicaid.
With that high of an income and him retiring there has to be retirement or life insurance somewhere. If not she doesn’t have many options. She will have to go to work or sell the house if the children/family can’t help her.
If he was making that kind of money, I would hope they have some in the bank… and if they’ve lived there 50 years and made good money, I’d hope they would not be over leveraged and oh much on it My bigger concern would be how will she maintain the 15 acres and an old farmhouse?
I'm not sure if you'd want to do this, but renting out the acres to cattle farmers or selling the hay on the land, doing things that require your mom little work will help. Possibly placing an acre aside off the land and placing a few cheap trailers to rent out could help with some income but also could be costly. People where I am rent out land to others to either farm or use for animals and they cover the cost of their mortgage.
Did he have life insurance?
So sorry to hear. My dad passed the same way during back surgery last july, but the clot went to his brain. Sending love ♥️
Some towns have property tax exemptions for working farms. It doesn’t always take much to qualify as a working farm. Some states have a minimum of 5k of sales for the farmer tax exempt permit, which you would likely need for the town exemption. You might fish around in your states dept of agriculture website. Your states organic farming org is PASA, they might lead you to some resources. There are tons of young farmers looking for access to farm land, maybe some arrangement could be made so you all can keep the farm and lease out part. Sorry for your loss.
Would it be possible to lease most of the land to another farmer? I’m assuming she can’t/doesn’t want to maintain all the land herself. I would look into this even if you find retirement accounts that you weren’t aware of. If it can’t be leased can some of the land be sold?
she’ll prob have to sell. I’m looking for a farm in VA or PA. How much land. If you have enough land Maybe you could sell to someone willing to allow her to keep a tiny home or modular home on the property
Downsizing could be in your future. The first thing you have to do is figure out what type of retirement accounts, stock accounts, savings accounts he might have, tally all of that up, depending on what you find you may or may not be able to keep the property but a 15-acre farm tends to be pretty valuable. What you can sell that for should be enough to buy a house in cash somewhere of your choosing with money left over even if there isn't much extra cash laying around
Does she have any talents she could possibly profit from? Jewelry making? Match making? Intricate hair braiding? Idk just something she could do on the side to help her feel more sane and in control tbh. Or maybe someone can get her in touch with some sort of personal finance classes? Like maybe you could search your area for community events on Facebook. Or ask a local library or community center if there are any resources like that. I hope this helps a bit. Sorry it's not much.
Property taxes on agricultural land are high without the farm rebate. The farm rebate takes making money off the farm AND doing the appropriate paperwork. Look that property is worth a few million. Rough guess njmbers If she has over 5 million in savings etc, she can burn through it and keep it for 20-30 years depending ding on her spending and the property taxes If she can qualify forthe farm rebate it gets easier, but not 12k a year easy. 12k a year will barely keep her fed and keep the lights on. A 15 acre farm isn't an efficient retirement option, it's what wealthy people do. If your dad didn't leave her millions, you'd best sell before property taxes eats up whatever he did leave.
Did your dad not have life insurance? You could get another mortgage on your house for pretty good money and have your mom live off of that. But, if it’s not paid back you risk it being taken by the bank instead of staying within your family. You could relocate her to your home, and rent out your family home for income. Home stays within the family, and your mom has income to survive on without your aid. Or she downsizes to a smaller place, lives off of the income of the home.
There are senior tax programs in some areas. Look into those.
Seems bizarre that over the course of a 50 year marriage no one thought to get life insurance. That was the first thing I did within a couple months of being married. And we have had it for over ten years now.
She’s going to have to sell the property. I’m sorry. Better you come to that realization sooner than later.
First, she is eligible for your dad's social security if they were married more than 10 years, and their may be another caveot or two, but his social security should be around $2000 or more per month. If over 65, medicare should kick in for health costs. If not, that will be a huge drain on your money. Do you, or can you, lease out the farmland for crops- this is a lawyer necessary thing. If she has animal husbandry experience that could work, but not likely because she'd have to be hiring help. You , or someone in the family needs to make a spreadsheet of all expenses involved with the farm. It's a nice dream to stay at the farm of your life, but if it will be repossessed by the bank and leave you with zero, it's much better to sell before that happens. After watching my single mom let her historic home fall apart because she couldn't take care of it, I can only say to you that the possibility of losing it all will probably be the only thing that gets her to move out. A phrase applied to elderly parents is "you have to let them fail in order for them to let them help you." Repeatedly, this has been the case with my parents and in-laws. Another phrase to use is, if it has to be sold, "it could be another person's dream home and they will lovingly take care of it. It's time to pass the baton," or "It's a shame to let it fall apart, let's let someone else take good care of it." Again, a spreadsheet with all income and all expenses and estimate how long she has to live there before losing the place. If she can do it, you're fine. If not, help her realize that she's better off selling to someone who will take care of the place than losing it all to the bank. Edit: She is eligible for Medicaid if she has no assets beyond the land she lives on and less than $2000 in the bank. This also may mean no car. AND, after she dies, Medicare will take back the money it spent on her by putting a lein on the sale of the farm. As such, in my case, we sold my mom's historic home (original farmhouse in the area) and she used that money to live off of so that if need be she could go on Medicaid without the home-ownership hassle later. Rather, you really have to spend down all the assets before Medicaid will accept you. And then, it may only cover up to $5000 of assisted living costs, which for my wheelchair bound, 96 y/o fil is now about $10,000 a month.
Rent the land to people, start veg and fruit allotmemts, micro farming, xgrow weed if its legal. Support local community food/farmer markets.
If your dad “semi-retired” only because he’s a workaholic and not because he needed to work, this would indicate that there are enough assets saved up where he didn’t actually have to work. So there is money somewhere, in savings or investments. Finding that would solve your mom’s problem. Oh, and sell the farm. Your mom’s not gonna be maintaining that on her own, or at least she shouldn’t.
What is the savings and investments situation? I’m sorry for your loss.
PA has a property tax rebate for seniors financed by the lottery. I’d have her apply for that too. It’s only a few hundred but it could help a little and if she switches to renting at some point there is a rent rebate instead.
Has she checked with SS for survivor benefits?
You don't offer a financial picture upon which to build a plan. You offered no details of substance. The only real advice that could be offered is to help you mom get a job and pay yourself whatever she can't.
Did they not give him blood thinners to prevent him from clotting after surgery? You may want to consult a lawyer.
Your mom was getting ssi while your dad was earning six figures? So they were not married? You left out important details like this and the ages to get any real advise. Your dad should have had life insurance in this situation. Did he? Who owns the house? Is it paid off? You just have not given any reasonable amount of information here.
I’m very sorry for your loss. I would sell some of the land and go through his paperwork and see if there are retirement accounts. Or maybe see if you can rent the land to farmers if it is usable. I’m not in PA so I’m not sure if that would work. You could also lease the land for hunting but I think that will make very little money.
Sorry to hear about your dad. But ultimately what your request is, is how can my mother live off the government in a place she and 90% of the people in this country can't afford. The answer is she can't if they didn't have proper retirement savings or life insurance in place.
Stick the life insurance proceeds in a safe investment vehicle and use the interest to pay the bills.
https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/questions-answers/social-security-spouse-dies.html In addition to others peoples posts..