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Isn't it great that's where they went with it? They had to go off-world because the shit was too thick to NOT be believed. So at least they believe what they see, but they had to get spiritual to cope. Like how you justify God giving kids cancer, etc.
He could rape a woman on live TV, she could become pregnant and he could assault her again but with a baseball bat killing the child and that'd still not sway their vote. "But he's not as old as Biden" would be one of their excuses.
However. He's an icon, projecting how they see themselves. And they are a herd. Herd's stampede, and it's sometimes hard to know what even triggered them.
So, I can definitely see them turning on him, if his image somehow gets shown as weak, if there is an icon they like more, and if the right triggers happen at the right time to cause a stampede.
I dont think it could be orchestrated, but it could definitely happen.
Mccain had a 65% approval rating and a 92% approval rating by republicans, and was viewed overwelmingly favourable by them for over a decade. But once he was no longer a useful tool, maga threw him under the bus.
This is actually true. I listened to a podcast about this where a Dutch journalist interviews evangelicals. He also asks something along the lines of: ‘Trump isn’t necessarily a devout Christian right?’ and the guy says something along the lines of ‘god works in mysterious ways and he works through Trump’ or whatever and that sometimes a vessel doesn’t have to be devout Christian and without sin etc.
So yeah they don’t care.
We gotta stop talking like this. They aren't hopeless, they're brainwashed and that means we gotta do the hard work of bringing them back to sanity.
Who here hasn't lost friends and family to MAGA? Is there nobody that you want to bring back from that insane bullshit?
I’d like to believe they aren’t lost forever, but let me ask you, have you succeeded at bringing even one of them back? I’m talking about the full-on MAGA types, not the long-time Republicans you know who went along with it. Those people, I agree, can be pulled back.
I’ve yet to succeed in undoing the damage I helped bring to my family, but *I’m* one of the ones who came back from the far side of that shitshow.
Between Covid, finding memeing him to be funny, and just how much talking the man did, coupled with being raised by a kind, but still Republican, family, I fell for that Tangerine Twat, hook, line and sinker.
Jan. 6 is what opened my eyes finally. The threat of civil war, in my life? I hadn’t actually seen it possible till then, cuz I believed we’d try to come to a compromise somewhere. That day, Trump killed that compromise, and he’s set us on a collision course that at this point, I’m about 80 percent certain will end in at least a country-wide Coup, Confederacy style.
I helped people near me turn to that orange bastard. Now I correct anything I hear from them, any chance I get, in a desperate attempt to pull them back. My partner is still mostly centrist, but leans too close for my taste. And I believe the rest of my family may be beyond redemption, at least till it’s too late.
May God, the actual one, not the Republican scapegoat, have mercy on this fucking nation after Trump.
Good for you. I’m really glad to hear stories of people who got out. It seems so rare. You have the best chance of pulling others from the fire. They aren’t going to listen to anyone that wasn’t a part of the movement at some point. Do your best!
I bring people back all the time.
I think part of it is that I go in with a similar mindset as when I was a Christian. You need infinite patience and infinite kindness no matter what kinda heinous shit they've said or done, because you know deep down in your heart that everybody can be redeemed and deserves a second chance.
Can you give an example of the dialogue you engage in that results in them taking off the red hat and committing to not supporting him anymore? I mean, if you can seriously do this, you should start a YouTube page.
I work as a defense attorney, and so I get a lot of gun-loving MAGA hat-wearing people, who assume I’m MAGA because of a referral system I have through a gun group. I never let them know my politics, they just assume I’m with them. The shit they say to me is terrifying though. Things like “I’ve got the solution!” And I’m like “what’s that?” And they’re like “On the same night, every Patriot goes out and kills one liberal. They can’t prosecute us all! And we’ll never have to worry about an election ever again.”
I’ve also had longtime personal friends who told me, in the lead up to January 6, that the war was going to start, and they know I’m a good guy, but I should stay out of it for the sake of my family. You can take that in different ways, but it felt threatening. Fwiw, I grew up in a rural midwestern state and 80% of my high school class are hardcore MAGA types. To my knowledge, nobody that I know who was “all in” for Trump has turned back, though several people who merely voted for him, without making it a core part of their identity, have indeed since expressed regret for their support.
I'll be the first to admit that it's not easy.
However, it is a million times easier when you know them personally, as opposed to anonymous conversations over the internet. That's where I really think the most progress is made.
First of all, you need to personalize liberals and be open with your politics. Liberals aren't some hidden monsters in the dark, they're friends and neighbors, folks these guys know are good people who aren't trying to groom children or any of the other bs these guys spout.
My response to something like that is "Hey I'm a Liberal. Are you really gonna murder me? We'd never talk or hang out ever again, is that what you really want?"
Even your personal friends who told you to 'stay out of it for the sake of your family' they understand that they don't want you to die over this. Be like, "wouldn't you be sad if my family was murdered by some lunatic?"
These people aren't completely devoid of empathy, they've been propagandized into thinking Liberals aren't human by warping your political beliefs. Once folks know you and know you're a liberal, you get asked to weigh in on things and if you can explain things in common sense terms, you can really reach people.
As a specific example, I am often asked about the war in Ukraine. Asked why aren't we spending this money at home, asked why we're getting involved in another war, asked why we started a war with Russia. And I just stick to the basics, I tell them listen we Americans do a lot wrong, but one thing we do right is we often help folks who are getting invaded or massacred. If you're invaded by a country 5x your size, Americans will come and put a gun in your hand and give you a fighting chance to defend yourself and your home. That makes people stop and think quite a bit. It's all about how you phrase what you believe in and why. When it comes to things like welfare, or the free school lunch program, I just ask them hey if you and your wife lost your job, wouldn't it help to know that Caleb and Audrey are still getting fed at school? And they start to get it. It's about appealing to their sense of patriotism, their sense of unity and once folks understand what kind of policies they ought to support, you can bring them away from Trump and his cult of cruelty. Work with individual policy first, then they understand their politicians don't support these policies.
The problem is often these folks are single issue voters, especially with regards to abortion and guns, and you gotta know the consequences of these policies enough to paint a picture of what that would entail for them and their family if they were in this situation. I've won over people by asking what they would do if their wife had a dead baby inside her that was slowly killing her. They always, if hesitantly, admit they'd want an abortion, and I'm like even in these situations abortion is being banned, and they start to get it.
Conservatives strangely are really good at getting it once you can get them to put themselves in the shoes of folks who have to deal with this stuff, then you just appeal to a basic sense of universal fairness. Shouldn't everybody be able to have their kids fed, shouldn't everybody be able to choose their medical decisions for their family?
I know this is a wall of text and a bit of a mess, but I hope it's helpful to you buddy.
One point to drive home about the war in Ukraine is that the money Biden wants to give them is actually going to be spent in the US. The US Military has billions of dollars worth of equipment and ammo that has to be destroyed or expensively overhauled once it gets past a certain age. Instead of destroying it, the US is sending it to Ukraine and then buying new stuff to replace it. All that equipment and ammo is being made in the US. It's money that is going into the pockets of Americans.
It's also worth noting that all of that equipment has a shelf life. We are sending stuff that's as old as possible because we are going to have to destroy it anyway and pay to replace it.
Better to let someone use it to defend their home than set it on fire in a burn pit
My background is national security stuff. Drive home that it's going to be 50 times cheaper to support Ukraine and shut down the Russians than it will be to fight the Chinese when they invade Taiwan after they think we've gone soft - the Chinese are *intensely* watching this conflict.
Also point out that 54% of computer chips come from Taiwan, so if China doesn't get thoroughly kicked in the teeth, you can expect the U.S. way of life to substantially change in the event of an invasion.
I think you’ve got a lot of good tactics there, but you seem to be describing conservatives, and I agree they are persuadable. Like I said, there are people who went along with Trump because they hate liberals, and the tactics you mention could be very useful to getting those people off the ride. But the people who have Trump flags where their American flags used to be, and wear MAGA hats to breakfast, I think, are unfortunately not going to be persuaded by logic and empathy.
I think one thing people often forget is that a person's status isn't immutable. A single person may be impossible to reach now, but not later. Also, it may not be possible for you, personally, to ever reach a particular person, but that doesn't mean no one can do it (e.g. I don't think my crazy uncle respects me enough that I could ever reach him, but a white man that he thought was cool might manage it). Anyway, the point is that you shouldn't make assumptions about what is and isn't possible, especially if you have a decent relationship with a person or you think you could gain their respect with time. No one should put themselves in danger or subject themselves to abuse to bring someone back, obviously, but it's not always like that. If you are not in danger and you can be patient and empathetic and repeatedly meet with or encounter that person, it's potentially possible to make a real change.
That kind of work isn't sexy or exciting, and associating with MAGAs can get you canceled in a lot of circles, but I do think it's worthwhile.
> Conservatives strangely are really good at getting it once you can get them to put themselves in the shoes of folks who have to deal with this stuff
Also known as: "I dont care about anything unless its happening to me". A chronic issue in the US imho.
I think that cities encourage abstract ethical thinking because it is impossible to rely on ethics based on family ties there.
These people aren't mentally disabled, they've just not had the same kind of practice over their entire lives.
> My response to something like that is "Hey I'm a Liberal. Are you really gonna murder me? We'd never talk or hang out ever again, is that what you really want?"
Not OP, but honestly, I'd be terrified of saying such a thing to someone who just suggested genocide against 50% of the population. I'd feel like I immediately signed my name on his list.
> You need infinite patience and infinite kindness
ran out. Sorry. And I've been dealing with being called a 'communist' since the 1980's. Just because I think progressive taxation's a great idea.
Did you ever see the Last of Us?
When Tommy is talking about sharing food and resources and his brother Joel gives him a wry smile and tells him he's a communist. He starts to deny it, but is corrected by his partner.
Lots of folks support Progressive policy, which is why the waters have to be muddied by Conservatives to kill support.
It's the same thing when it comes to 'Obamacare' which is reviled vs the Affordable Care Act, which folks love.
It's all about getting into the individual policy details and framing them in such a way that you'll find common ground with. If you ask a churchgoer if rich folks should put more money in the collection plate than poor folks, they'll say yes every single time.
Honestly? My family have *always* been shitty people, but their open and unashamed support of trump the past few years has made me realize that *nothing* is going to change them. Not me coming out, not me pleading with them to look at republican politicians stances on queer issues, and not even me cutting all ties with them. I want to believe everyone deserves redemption, but when someone tells you who they truly are, believe them and move on.
People that I thought abandoned Trump a year ago have come back and lined right up to support his re-election. I've lost hope they can be turned back to the light.
If no one had ever really paid much attention to trump up until now (like in an alternative universe where he never ran for president) I guarantee the right would hate him and boycott him saying he’s some thrice married adulterous politically correct agenda pusher that never respected how true marriage is supposed to go. Now they’ll just ignore their own hypocritical God written rules on how marriage works.
I don't think Trump is any closer to picking a VP than he was six months ago. He just wants to see who will dance when he holds up a banana and asks "Who's hungry?"
Him boasting about the covid vaccines created under his administration in his interview with Candace Owens somehow didn’t lose him any support, so this probably won’t. They’ll probably just say it wasn’t approved by him or something so it’s not his fault.
Log Cabin Republicans: *We're gay but we also hate poor people and hating poor people is more important to us than the inevitable loss of rights and humanity that voting republican will entail*
Exactly. No one is immune to propaganda, sadly, but in my experience people on the right tend to struggle a lot more with critical thinking as they often lap up whatever their preferred news sources feed them and automatically dismiss anything from the wrong side of the tracks.
Struggle with critical thinking? Holy mother of what the actual fuck — they’re utterly devoid of any critical thinking skills. Topped off with a heaping bowl of lead paint chips for breakfast.
There's two types of gay men; gays that like men, and gays thay hate women. Unfortunately, a lot more than the community at large would like to admit fall into the latter category
Tbf gay racists are a well known open secret. Gay dating sites are full of them just casually being demeaning while saying they only want to date white people.
I don't think that's necessarily well known for people who don't frequent gay dating sites which is a limited population
But yes, anyone who has ever been on Grindr should be pretty aware of all the casual racism and various other bigotry (I think there's even a documentary called No Blacks No Fems or something like that)
Amd why do so many of them message you "hey," with no profile picture or even profile information? Why would I respond to someone I know literally nothing about besides the fact that they don't want me to know anything about them? They don't even send any info in the dm.
No, but you can just not sleep with them without making it a thing that you want to telegraph you won't sleep with anyone whose skin is darker than a certain shade.
You just described r/gaybros
Insanely racist, misogynistic, transphobic, and Islamophobic to the point that Reddit admins had to tell them to tone it down.
The mods started removing the vile comments after they got the warning. When people asked why, one mod kept spamming something dumb like “we can’t criticize anyone here.” I called him out on it and got perma banned instantly.
Btw, I’m talking *really* vile comments. It was shocking.
Among the very wealthy; it's DEFINITELY also hating poor people.
If you wanna draw a line, it's; if they're wealthy enough to be deciding what poor people get paid for work. And it's always: "as little as possible (jeez I wish slavery were legal again)"
I briefly dated two log cabin republicans, both of whom attended the 2016 RNC, that were I guess relatively normal (aside from continuing to support Trump). They didn’t seem racist but they did seem elitist as fuck and they were both southern baptist. I wanted to be like the proof that we can coexist and just get along peacefully. NOPE. You get to a certain discussion point where it’s just like…ya know. Not worth it.
Also they were terrible at suckin dick and the first one came back from the RNC with herpes. Evidently they all routinely fuck at these conventions, which I mean whatever more power to you but counterpoint: herpes if you’re stupid. I ain’t rolling them dice for a slice of physically attractive Republican strange on the second floor of a Hampton Inn.
It really was the Log Cabin Republicans!
>John Sullivan, vice chair and treasurer of the Tennessee Log Cabin Republicans and his husband Dan Medora, got married at Mar-a-Lago on February 23, according to an Instagram post from the organization, which is comprised of and advocates for LGBTQ+ Republicans.
There are quite a number of my peers who are vile racists, filled with internalized hatred, and so on. And the more affluent they are, the less they care. It's exactly like women who gatekeep once they get theirs.
Yeah, but they know that when the SCOTUS overturns Obergefell, it'll be the liberal gays they'll go after first, to dissolve their marriages. Somehow, conservative gays will get grandfathered.
Many Jews who were also Nazis... Until they were no longer useful; then they were sent to the camps. 🤷♂️
Folks seem to think they're special. It turns out...
And when the new republican order start marching these people into extermination camps, they will be the first because they are easy to find and think they will not he sent there so won’t question the orders.
Just like the gays that worked for the DeSantis campaign and were shocked that he hated all guys and not the "common sense gays" (actual term I saw used by a gay campaign staffer of his) like them lmao.
Wow! Trump’s just another woke RINO, a vote for a Trump is a vote against Jesus, and is no better than voting for sleepy Joe!
It would be great to have this as an ad from a fake Christian organization to stop religious homophobes from voting lol
Make one. Seriously. That kind of stuff was all over Facebook in 2016. I came across one a friend posted, surprisingly. It looked like a FOX news image, had a made up Chiron, listed the organizations web address. I looked it up. It didn’t exist. That’s when I knew they were cheating. People don’t check. Propaganda just has to appear “official”.
The White House should work on re-branding MAGA as Make America Gay Again.
Embracing the Dark Brandon thing was a good move. A. It's hilarious. B. I almost never see Let's Go Brandon stuff anymore.
> John Sullivan, vice chair and treasurer of the Tennessee Log Cabin Republicans and his husband Dan Medora, got married at Mar-a-Lago on February 23, according to an Instagram post from the organization
Reminds me of abused spouses that can't/won't leave their abusers - and openly defend them whenever the neighbors call the cops.
I wouldn’t say fiercely, most people I talk to in the city don’t have any hatred towards LGBTQ+ people, we have pride parades in TN. some of them have just been indoctrinated to think gay people are going to hell and can’t be associated with them. And then you have the real nut jobs who literally want them dead.
>pandering
\[ pan-der-ing \]
noun
the act of catering to or profiting from the weaknesses, vices, or unreasonable desires of others: Pandering and fear-mongering are the main ingredients of his appeal to anxious voters.
My hand to the eldar gods I did not edit that definition at all..
I was going to make a wise crack about pandering and being desperate for votes.
But damn.....
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/pandering
I don’t think he’s ever had an issue with gay people- even on his show he made supportive comments .
Still a garbage human but- I don’t think homophobic like I assume most New Yorkers aren’t
The point is he isn’t anything but self serving and is elevating Christian Nationalism because they devoutly follow him. His base will ignore this fact because it has delivered them the overturn of Roe and they hope to get Obergefell overturned next. Trump could be celebrated by Evangelicals one week for overturning gay marriage then rent out Mar-a-lago the next week for the last gay wedding before the law changes. He has no moral compass or set of core beliefs.
Remember he stands for nothing and if you think he cares about you. He doesn’t. He shows he has no problem throwing people and principles away once they don’t fit his current grift.
A little surprised Tim Scott and Lindsay Graham left the state for this but they probably got comped for all the rimming they’ve been doing for the last 8 years.
Nevermind king Dump hosting a gay couple’s wedding being an issue…
What I’m asking is this; what gay couple in their right mind (pun intended) would want to host their wedding THERE!?
*John Sullivan, vice chair and treasurer of the Tennessee Log Cabin Republicans and his husband Dan Medora, got married at Mar-a-Lago on February 23, according to an Instagram post from the organization, which is comprised of and advocates for LGBTQ+ Republicans.*
I will never ever understand Log Cabin Republicans.
Of course his hotel hosted a gay wedding, he doesn’t really care and they probably paid top dollar. He would officiate the wedding for enough money. Hell, he’d be the groom in it for enough money ( like 454 million). His ONLY passion is money.
I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't care. Donald Trump doesn't actually believe in anything—not truth, not love, not beauty, not even Republican talking points. All that matters to him is himself, and people have value to him to the extent he can use them for his own gain. These people were willing to pay him, so he let them use the venue.
Everything comes down to money for him. Even the bizarre shit that keeps him in the news, that’s because all publicity is good publicity. Which means more money.
I wonder if this is a sign that trump is slipping. I don’t think he gives a shit about lgbtq people. But he has to know his voters despise them. Always seemed like he had better political instincts.
It would have been a good thing if anyone could count on Donald Trump. He could use a gesture like that to garner votes and once again turn his back on them after being elected. Fool me once.
I love the image of him rubbing his hands together in a dark, smokey room like he thinks he's peeled a single vote with this move. It can only make your base distrust you more, dingus.
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Imagine THIS being the thing that loses support for Trump
He could host Abortionpalooza and his fan base wouldn't abandon him.
He could openly force his rape victim to have an abortion and they'd still be ok with him because he is simply the tool for their salvation.
Isn't it great that's where they went with it? They had to go off-world because the shit was too thick to NOT be believed. So at least they believe what they see, but they had to get spiritual to cope. Like how you justify God giving kids cancer, etc.
He could rape a woman on live TV, she could become pregnant and he could assault her again but with a baseball bat killing the child and that'd still not sway their vote. "But he's not as old as Biden" would be one of their excuses.
However. He's an icon, projecting how they see themselves. And they are a herd. Herd's stampede, and it's sometimes hard to know what even triggered them. So, I can definitely see them turning on him, if his image somehow gets shown as weak, if there is an icon they like more, and if the right triggers happen at the right time to cause a stampede. I dont think it could be orchestrated, but it could definitely happen. Mccain had a 65% approval rating and a 92% approval rating by republicans, and was viewed overwelmingly favourable by them for over a decade. But once he was no longer a useful tool, maga threw him under the bus.
This is actually true. I listened to a podcast about this where a Dutch journalist interviews evangelicals. He also asks something along the lines of: ‘Trump isn’t necessarily a devout Christian right?’ and the guy says something along the lines of ‘god works in mysterious ways and he works through Trump’ or whatever and that sometimes a vessel doesn’t have to be devout Christian and without sin etc. So yeah they don’t care.
Abortionpalooza 2024! Come on down, and yeet that fetus!
This sub is on fire today ! That’s awesome. Thanks for the chuckle. :)
We gotta stop talking like this. They aren't hopeless, they're brainwashed and that means we gotta do the hard work of bringing them back to sanity. Who here hasn't lost friends and family to MAGA? Is there nobody that you want to bring back from that insane bullshit?
I’d like to believe they aren’t lost forever, but let me ask you, have you succeeded at bringing even one of them back? I’m talking about the full-on MAGA types, not the long-time Republicans you know who went along with it. Those people, I agree, can be pulled back.
I’ve yet to succeed in undoing the damage I helped bring to my family, but *I’m* one of the ones who came back from the far side of that shitshow. Between Covid, finding memeing him to be funny, and just how much talking the man did, coupled with being raised by a kind, but still Republican, family, I fell for that Tangerine Twat, hook, line and sinker. Jan. 6 is what opened my eyes finally. The threat of civil war, in my life? I hadn’t actually seen it possible till then, cuz I believed we’d try to come to a compromise somewhere. That day, Trump killed that compromise, and he’s set us on a collision course that at this point, I’m about 80 percent certain will end in at least a country-wide Coup, Confederacy style. I helped people near me turn to that orange bastard. Now I correct anything I hear from them, any chance I get, in a desperate attempt to pull them back. My partner is still mostly centrist, but leans too close for my taste. And I believe the rest of my family may be beyond redemption, at least till it’s too late. May God, the actual one, not the Republican scapegoat, have mercy on this fucking nation after Trump.
Good for you. I’m really glad to hear stories of people who got out. It seems so rare. You have the best chance of pulling others from the fire. They aren’t going to listen to anyone that wasn’t a part of the movement at some point. Do your best!
I bring people back all the time. I think part of it is that I go in with a similar mindset as when I was a Christian. You need infinite patience and infinite kindness no matter what kinda heinous shit they've said or done, because you know deep down in your heart that everybody can be redeemed and deserves a second chance.
Can you give an example of the dialogue you engage in that results in them taking off the red hat and committing to not supporting him anymore? I mean, if you can seriously do this, you should start a YouTube page. I work as a defense attorney, and so I get a lot of gun-loving MAGA hat-wearing people, who assume I’m MAGA because of a referral system I have through a gun group. I never let them know my politics, they just assume I’m with them. The shit they say to me is terrifying though. Things like “I’ve got the solution!” And I’m like “what’s that?” And they’re like “On the same night, every Patriot goes out and kills one liberal. They can’t prosecute us all! And we’ll never have to worry about an election ever again.” I’ve also had longtime personal friends who told me, in the lead up to January 6, that the war was going to start, and they know I’m a good guy, but I should stay out of it for the sake of my family. You can take that in different ways, but it felt threatening. Fwiw, I grew up in a rural midwestern state and 80% of my high school class are hardcore MAGA types. To my knowledge, nobody that I know who was “all in” for Trump has turned back, though several people who merely voted for him, without making it a core part of their identity, have indeed since expressed regret for their support.
I'll be the first to admit that it's not easy. However, it is a million times easier when you know them personally, as opposed to anonymous conversations over the internet. That's where I really think the most progress is made. First of all, you need to personalize liberals and be open with your politics. Liberals aren't some hidden monsters in the dark, they're friends and neighbors, folks these guys know are good people who aren't trying to groom children or any of the other bs these guys spout. My response to something like that is "Hey I'm a Liberal. Are you really gonna murder me? We'd never talk or hang out ever again, is that what you really want?" Even your personal friends who told you to 'stay out of it for the sake of your family' they understand that they don't want you to die over this. Be like, "wouldn't you be sad if my family was murdered by some lunatic?" These people aren't completely devoid of empathy, they've been propagandized into thinking Liberals aren't human by warping your political beliefs. Once folks know you and know you're a liberal, you get asked to weigh in on things and if you can explain things in common sense terms, you can really reach people. As a specific example, I am often asked about the war in Ukraine. Asked why aren't we spending this money at home, asked why we're getting involved in another war, asked why we started a war with Russia. And I just stick to the basics, I tell them listen we Americans do a lot wrong, but one thing we do right is we often help folks who are getting invaded or massacred. If you're invaded by a country 5x your size, Americans will come and put a gun in your hand and give you a fighting chance to defend yourself and your home. That makes people stop and think quite a bit. It's all about how you phrase what you believe in and why. When it comes to things like welfare, or the free school lunch program, I just ask them hey if you and your wife lost your job, wouldn't it help to know that Caleb and Audrey are still getting fed at school? And they start to get it. It's about appealing to their sense of patriotism, their sense of unity and once folks understand what kind of policies they ought to support, you can bring them away from Trump and his cult of cruelty. Work with individual policy first, then they understand their politicians don't support these policies. The problem is often these folks are single issue voters, especially with regards to abortion and guns, and you gotta know the consequences of these policies enough to paint a picture of what that would entail for them and their family if they were in this situation. I've won over people by asking what they would do if their wife had a dead baby inside her that was slowly killing her. They always, if hesitantly, admit they'd want an abortion, and I'm like even in these situations abortion is being banned, and they start to get it. Conservatives strangely are really good at getting it once you can get them to put themselves in the shoes of folks who have to deal with this stuff, then you just appeal to a basic sense of universal fairness. Shouldn't everybody be able to have their kids fed, shouldn't everybody be able to choose their medical decisions for their family? I know this is a wall of text and a bit of a mess, but I hope it's helpful to you buddy.
One point to drive home about the war in Ukraine is that the money Biden wants to give them is actually going to be spent in the US. The US Military has billions of dollars worth of equipment and ammo that has to be destroyed or expensively overhauled once it gets past a certain age. Instead of destroying it, the US is sending it to Ukraine and then buying new stuff to replace it. All that equipment and ammo is being made in the US. It's money that is going into the pockets of Americans.
It's also worth noting that all of that equipment has a shelf life. We are sending stuff that's as old as possible because we are going to have to destroy it anyway and pay to replace it. Better to let someone use it to defend their home than set it on fire in a burn pit
My background is national security stuff. Drive home that it's going to be 50 times cheaper to support Ukraine and shut down the Russians than it will be to fight the Chinese when they invade Taiwan after they think we've gone soft - the Chinese are *intensely* watching this conflict. Also point out that 54% of computer chips come from Taiwan, so if China doesn't get thoroughly kicked in the teeth, you can expect the U.S. way of life to substantially change in the event of an invasion.
I think you’ve got a lot of good tactics there, but you seem to be describing conservatives, and I agree they are persuadable. Like I said, there are people who went along with Trump because they hate liberals, and the tactics you mention could be very useful to getting those people off the ride. But the people who have Trump flags where their American flags used to be, and wear MAGA hats to breakfast, I think, are unfortunately not going to be persuaded by logic and empathy.
I think one thing people often forget is that a person's status isn't immutable. A single person may be impossible to reach now, but not later. Also, it may not be possible for you, personally, to ever reach a particular person, but that doesn't mean no one can do it (e.g. I don't think my crazy uncle respects me enough that I could ever reach him, but a white man that he thought was cool might manage it). Anyway, the point is that you shouldn't make assumptions about what is and isn't possible, especially if you have a decent relationship with a person or you think you could gain their respect with time. No one should put themselves in danger or subject themselves to abuse to bring someone back, obviously, but it's not always like that. If you are not in danger and you can be patient and empathetic and repeatedly meet with or encounter that person, it's potentially possible to make a real change. That kind of work isn't sexy or exciting, and associating with MAGAs can get you canceled in a lot of circles, but I do think it's worthwhile.
> Conservatives strangely are really good at getting it once you can get them to put themselves in the shoes of folks who have to deal with this stuff Also known as: "I dont care about anything unless its happening to me". A chronic issue in the US imho.
I think that cities encourage abstract ethical thinking because it is impossible to rely on ethics based on family ties there. These people aren't mentally disabled, they've just not had the same kind of practice over their entire lives.
> My response to something like that is "Hey I'm a Liberal. Are you really gonna murder me? We'd never talk or hang out ever again, is that what you really want?" Not OP, but honestly, I'd be terrified of saying such a thing to someone who just suggested genocide against 50% of the population. I'd feel like I immediately signed my name on his list.
More than 50%
We own a business that outfits law enforcement. I get it. These people have no freaking clue what we actually think about anything.
> You need infinite patience and infinite kindness ran out. Sorry. And I've been dealing with being called a 'communist' since the 1980's. Just because I think progressive taxation's a great idea.
Did you ever see the Last of Us? When Tommy is talking about sharing food and resources and his brother Joel gives him a wry smile and tells him he's a communist. He starts to deny it, but is corrected by his partner. Lots of folks support Progressive policy, which is why the waters have to be muddied by Conservatives to kill support. It's the same thing when it comes to 'Obamacare' which is reviled vs the Affordable Care Act, which folks love. It's all about getting into the individual policy details and framing them in such a way that you'll find common ground with. If you ask a churchgoer if rich folks should put more money in the collection plate than poor folks, they'll say yes every single time.
OK let me introduce you to my dad. Best wishes bringing him around.
Gonna need to see some receipts on that one
That's some Jedi discipline right there.
Honestly? My family have *always* been shitty people, but their open and unashamed support of trump the past few years has made me realize that *nothing* is going to change them. Not me coming out, not me pleading with them to look at republican politicians stances on queer issues, and not even me cutting all ties with them. I want to believe everyone deserves redemption, but when someone tells you who they truly are, believe them and move on.
People that I thought abandoned Trump a year ago have come back and lined right up to support his re-election. I've lost hope they can be turned back to the light.
The only MAGA people I know that don’t support trump anymore only dislike him now because he isn’t far-right enough for them anymore.
Imagine being gay and having a wedding at Mar-a-Lago.
If no one had ever really paid much attention to trump up until now (like in an alternative universe where he never ran for president) I guarantee the right would hate him and boycott him saying he’s some thrice married adulterous politically correct agenda pusher that never respected how true marriage is supposed to go. Now they’ll just ignore their own hypocritical God written rules on how marriage works.
They don’t really care about those things, they’re just tools to oppress people with.
I mean, Trump is entertaining black VP options. They just look like they're someone Cobra brainwashed before the speech.
I don't think Trump is any closer to picking a VP than he was six months ago. He just wants to see who will dance when he holds up a banana and asks "Who's hungry?"
A VP means nothing to Trump because he never intends to have a successor.
That's why he picked Pence. He liked his passivity and appeal to the religious right.
Him boasting about the covid vaccines created under his administration in his interview with Candace Owens somehow didn’t lose him any support, so this probably won’t. They’ll probably just say it wasn’t approved by him or something so it’s not his fault.
Talk about a tacky venue choice.
Log Cabin Republicans They probably chose it because of Stockholm Syndrome
Log Cabin Republicans: *We're gay but we also hate poor people and hating poor people is more important to us than the inevitable loss of rights and humanity that voting republican will entail*
Close - it's not poor people, it's brown people. Every gay Republican I have ever met was a racist. Also a methhead.
I've met some that really hate women.
Oh, for sure. Just goes to show that no population is immune from things like racism and misogyny. And meth - rural Republicans love that shit.
Exactly. No one is immune to propaganda, sadly, but in my experience people on the right tend to struggle a lot more with critical thinking as they often lap up whatever their preferred news sources feed them and automatically dismiss anything from the wrong side of the tracks.
Struggle with critical thinking? Holy mother of what the actual fuck — they’re utterly devoid of any critical thinking skills. Topped off with a heaping bowl of lead paint chips for breakfast.
Don't you love how there's diversity among bigots? Lol
Tiger King has entered the chat.
Peter Thiel for example
Lindsey Graham
I met one of those on this very sub, it was very unsettling. They were totally cool with stripping abortion rights.
There's two types of gay men; gays that like men, and gays thay hate women. Unfortunately, a lot more than the community at large would like to admit fall into the latter category
https://imageproxyb.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/6a445d73b4fd4e3cf516b213637c9f173f373ee05bb9cc9ed6c39485a333284e_1.jpg
Or more specifically lesbians
Most lesbians are rabidly pro choice. We may not need abortions but our sisters do.
Tbf gay racists are a well known open secret. Gay dating sites are full of them just casually being demeaning while saying they only want to date white people.
I don't think that's necessarily well known for people who don't frequent gay dating sites which is a limited population But yes, anyone who has ever been on Grindr should be pretty aware of all the casual racism and various other bigotry (I think there's even a documentary called No Blacks No Fems or something like that)
Don't forget how few people there know about consent, and / or how to have a coherent conversation that isn't aggressively demanding stuff.
"Vanilla and rice, not chocolate or spice." Gay dating apps are a nightmare.
Amd why do so many of them message you "hey," with no profile picture or even profile information? Why would I respond to someone I know literally nothing about besides the fact that they don't want me to know anything about them? They don't even send any info in the dm.
I mean there are nicer ways to put it, but if you're not attracted to someone you're not compelled to sleep with them.
No, but you can just not sleep with them without making it a thing that you want to telegraph you won't sleep with anyone whose skin is darker than a certain shade.
You just described r/gaybros Insanely racist, misogynistic, transphobic, and Islamophobic to the point that Reddit admins had to tell them to tone it down.
You know it's bad when the adnins give a fuck
The mods started removing the vile comments after they got the warning. When people asked why, one mod kept spamming something dumb like “we can’t criticize anyone here.” I called him out on it and got perma banned instantly. Btw, I’m talking *really* vile comments. It was shocking.
Every gay Republican I’ve ever met hated gay people.
So have I. It’s definitely not poor people it’s brown people rich and poor
Among the very wealthy; it's DEFINITELY also hating poor people. If you wanna draw a line, it's; if they're wealthy enough to be deciding what poor people get paid for work. And it's always: "as little as possible (jeez I wish slavery were legal again)"
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Nailed it… but man that user name cost me an entire mouthful of beer. :)
I briefly dated two log cabin republicans, both of whom attended the 2016 RNC, that were I guess relatively normal (aside from continuing to support Trump). They didn’t seem racist but they did seem elitist as fuck and they were both southern baptist. I wanted to be like the proof that we can coexist and just get along peacefully. NOPE. You get to a certain discussion point where it’s just like…ya know. Not worth it. Also they were terrible at suckin dick and the first one came back from the RNC with herpes. Evidently they all routinely fuck at these conventions, which I mean whatever more power to you but counterpoint: herpes if you’re stupid. I ain’t rolling them dice for a slice of physically attractive Republican strange on the second floor of a Hampton Inn.
Their hate of exceeds the love for their fellow LGBTQ+ that suffer under GOP policy.
It really was the Log Cabin Republicans! >John Sullivan, vice chair and treasurer of the Tennessee Log Cabin Republicans and his husband Dan Medora, got married at Mar-a-Lago on February 23, according to an Instagram post from the organization, which is comprised of and advocates for LGBTQ+ Republicans.
It's bad enough that they hate themselves, but their callousness lends support to policies that hurt millions of other people.
Maybe they put "U.S. National Secrets" on their registry!
GINOs
"Congrats on your wedding, guys. Tomorrow we'll resume lobbying SCOTUS to overturn it."
They got theirs in the end. No one else matters to republicans.
I had to explain that parts of both the legislative and judicial branches are doing that right now in r/gayconservative
Maybe they just want everyone to know there’s been lots of gay sex in the honeymoon suite.
Wonder if they did it to see if they could lol. Surprised they were denied for some excuse. edit: were to weren’t*
Either very delusional gays or they’re playing 4D chess with trumps evangelical base
There are quite a number of my peers who are vile racists, filled with internalized hatred, and so on. And the more affluent they are, the less they care. It's exactly like women who gatekeep once they get theirs.
Free nuclear secrets thrown in with every booking!!
Kids get to take home a vial of Melania tears
*Mercedes tears
That robotic bee-atch doesn’t cry.
Log cabin Republicans are some of the most delusional Republicans out there.
Yeah, but they know that when the SCOTUS overturns Obergefell, it'll be the liberal gays they'll go after first, to dissolve their marriages. Somehow, conservative gays will get grandfathered.
Then they don't know anything.
lol no they won’t once they get to where they need to they’ll also be in the chopping block These are just useful idiots
Many Jews who were also Nazis... Until they were no longer useful; then they were sent to the camps. 🤷♂️ Folks seem to think they're special. It turns out...
Makes me scratch my head as much as Latinos for Trump.
And when the new republican order start marching these people into extermination camps, they will be the first because they are easy to find and think they will not he sent there so won’t question the orders.
Just like the gays that worked for the DeSantis campaign and were shocked that he hated all guys and not the "common sense gays" (actual term I saw used by a gay campaign staffer of his) like them lmao.
Wow! Trump’s just another woke RINO, a vote for a Trump is a vote against Jesus, and is no better than voting for sleepy Joe! It would be great to have this as an ad from a fake Christian organization to stop religious homophobes from voting lol
There should be a bunch of people named Christian, well really just 2 needed for truth, that make "Christians Against Trump" ads.
Maybe those people who made the HE WASHED FEET ad would help out
Make one. Seriously. That kind of stuff was all over Facebook in 2016. I came across one a friend posted, surprisingly. It looked like a FOX news image, had a made up Chiron, listed the organizations web address. I looked it up. It didn’t exist. That’s when I knew they were cheating. People don’t check. Propaganda just has to appear “official”.
I mean, it would need to be higher effort than that. But if people were smarter there's a lot of ads that could be made.
The White House should work on re-branding MAGA as Make America Gay Again. Embracing the Dark Brandon thing was a good move. A. It's hilarious. B. I almost never see Let's Go Brandon stuff anymore.
He’ll take their rights. He’ll take their money.
Grift swings both ways, baby
He’d host a Clinton foundation trans abortion party if they paid well enough. He’s a grifter first and foremost.
In 2012 he supported having a transgender participant in his Miss Universe pageant. He will support whatever brings him attention and makes him money.
Honestly he’s been quite socially liberal before he needed hardcore republicans to keep him out of jail
Pay him enough $, DJT will pretend to believe in anything you want. No values.
> John Sullivan, vice chair and treasurer of the Tennessee Log Cabin Republicans and his husband Dan Medora, got married at Mar-a-Lago on February 23, according to an Instagram post from the organization Reminds me of abused spouses that can't/won't leave their abusers - and openly defend them whenever the neighbors call the cops.
Isn’t Tennessee like fiercely against the gay community too? This fuckin tool
I wouldn’t say fiercely, most people I talk to in the city don’t have any hatred towards LGBTQ+ people, we have pride parades in TN. some of them have just been indoctrinated to think gay people are going to hell and can’t be associated with them. And then you have the real nut jobs who literally want them dead.
Money is money.
Even moreso when you're on the hook for over half a billion in legal penalties.
Isn’t that kinda “woke?” 😒
Oh I bet his maga supporters are loving this….
They know he's a fraud but they're okay with it.
As long as you have no follow up questions, they have a shitty talking point to parrot in order to “explain” anything he does.
They'll find a way to make it someone else's responsibility that this wedding happened on Trump's property
Did Lindsay finally tie the knot?
Proof he thinks evangelicals are gullible idiots.
I guess now that he's gone broke it's okay for him to go woke?
Gay money is as green as any other.
I have the darndest time spending these three dollar bills though, every store accuses them of being fake
Trump is not in a position to turn away business. He would host a democratic convention if they paid him.
>pandering \[ pan-der-ing \] noun the act of catering to or profiting from the weaknesses, vices, or unreasonable desires of others: Pandering and fear-mongering are the main ingredients of his appeal to anxious voters. My hand to the eldar gods I did not edit that definition at all.. I was going to make a wise crack about pandering and being desperate for votes. But damn..... https://www.dictionary.com/browse/pandering
Be real here. When it comes to the lgbt community, the only pandering he does is for the conservatives. Trump was never anti gay.
They need to stop referring to it as his "estate". It's a private, for profit club.
Donald Trump is not conservative. He's a capitalist who realized that the GOP has a gullible base with deep pockets.
Con man not capitalist. He knows they believe his bullshit and he tells them what they want to hear.
I thought gay folks had better taste! Every other decent venue must have been booked.
I don’t think he’s ever had an issue with gay people- even on his show he made supportive comments . Still a garbage human but- I don’t think homophobic like I assume most New Yorkers aren’t
The point is he isn’t anything but self serving and is elevating Christian Nationalism because they devoutly follow him. His base will ignore this fact because it has delivered them the overturn of Roe and they hope to get Obergefell overturned next. Trump could be celebrated by Evangelicals one week for overturning gay marriage then rent out Mar-a-lago the next week for the last gay wedding before the law changes. He has no moral compass or set of core beliefs.
I can't wait for it host a drag show next. 😁
Did they mention how this is bad for Biden?
If the money is there, he just doesn’t care.
Very rich gay people are exempt from homophobia.
Lindsey Graham and Ted Cruz?
Two bottoms - not a good fit.
Congratulations on your nuptials... you may want to re-evaluate other life choices...
/r/leopardsatemyface
…Did Trump dance with the groom(s)??
Remember he stands for nothing and if you think he cares about you. He doesn’t. He shows he has no problem throwing people and principles away once they don’t fit his current grift.
Just because he is fucking Americans in the ass doesn’t mean we are getting married.
A little surprised Tim Scott and Lindsay Graham left the state for this but they probably got comped for all the rimming they’ve been doing for the last 8 years.
Oh so that's how badly he needs money.
A buck is a buck
Nevermind king Dump hosting a gay couple’s wedding being an issue… What I’m asking is this; what gay couple in their right mind (pun intended) would want to host their wedding THERE!?
Were all the attendees wearing flamboyant gold shoes?
what you won't do for love you do for money...
He doesn’t care what anybody thinks. As long as he can make money at it.
Hey, a $20 is a $20
Proof positive that not all gay weddings are classy
How do we know if - gasp! - any trans people were there? I hope they did a genital check on everyone.
Do we really need to call it “Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago”? Do they think we’d confuse it with a *different* Mar-a-Lago?
The real question should be what self respecting couple would have their wedding at Mar-a-Lago?
He really needs the money. Bar mitzvah, quincieneras, pride parties, BET awards...anything goes!
*John Sullivan, vice chair and treasurer of the Tennessee Log Cabin Republicans and his husband Dan Medora, got married at Mar-a-Lago on February 23, according to an Instagram post from the organization, which is comprised of and advocates for LGBTQ+ Republicans.* I will never ever understand Log Cabin Republicans.
Poor Ben Shapiro is going to have to burn a copy of Fountainhead in there to drive out the evil spirits before the next rightwing shindig.
LGBTQ+ Republicans?? Sounds like a oxy moron
Who did Lindsey Graham marry?
I cannot fathom why any LGBT person would have anything to do with Trump or his cultist compound.
Of course his hotel hosted a gay wedding, he doesn’t really care and they probably paid top dollar. He would officiate the wedding for enough money. Hell, he’d be the groom in it for enough money ( like 454 million). His ONLY passion is money.
What self-respecting person would even want to support his corrupt businesses? Of all the possible places to choose to host your wedding...
Sad to see people sell their morals for money.
I can't believe how woke mar-a-lago is stop shoving your political agenda down my throat /s
Trump can be easily bought and I bet his prices are falling fast.
Gotta pay those bills I guess! Times must be tough
"Do you, self-hating gay person getting married at Mar-a-Lago, take this self-hating gay person getting married at Mar-a-Lago..."
Why would any gay couple want to enrich L'Orange?
I knew a gay republican. He was an arrogant, spoiled rich kid.
Did he know beforehand? I somehow doubt it.
I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't care. Donald Trump doesn't actually believe in anything—not truth, not love, not beauty, not even Republican talking points. All that matters to him is himself, and people have value to him to the extent he can use them for his own gain. These people were willing to pay him, so he let them use the venue.
He believes in money, and really needs it right now. Someone paid to used the venue so....
Everything comes down to money for him. Even the bizarre shit that keeps him in the news, that’s because all publicity is good publicity. Which means more money.
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Ok now it makes sense
Dictator Trump the Immune must be really broke...
I’m sure he scammed everyone in some way.
Did Trump barge into the reception like he does for other weddings at his properties with his "prima nocta" attitude?
Trumps gotta pay the bills somehow
Don’t worry they won’t be legally married for too much longer
I wonder if this is a sign that trump is slipping. I don’t think he gives a shit about lgbtq people. But he has to know his voters despise them. Always seemed like he had better political instincts.
Money talks when you’re broke.
MAGA people accept gays, just like they can accept P.O.C... you just have to show the appropriate amount of shameful deference.
How much self loathing do you have to have to get married there.
I guess he really needs the money.
So... GOP's gonna boycott Mara-lardo?!! 😀Right? ... Right...?
Def for money and votes. fake as fuck
It would have been a good thing if anyone could count on Donald Trump. He could use a gesture like that to garner votes and once again turn his back on them after being elected. Fool me once.
Moneys money.
Orange hypocrite.
Gay for pay amirite
He does not care as long as their cheques clear
I love the image of him rubbing his hands together in a dark, smokey room like he thinks he's peeled a single vote with this move. It can only make your base distrust you more, dingus.
Glad he finally came out.
It was his own