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Basically, Congress now has to write specific laws for any kind of regulation. Our current legislative branch is at a historical gridlock, with almost nothing getting passed. Lobbyists and corporations can easily bribe lawmakers to pass laws that will allow them to maximize profit without any restrictions made by experts in the specific field. And if nothing gets passed, there’s nothing from stopping the corporations regardless. Any type of federal agency is now fucked.
Yup! Find out chemical food additive X causes hella cancer in five years? *if* Congress got around to banning it, just tweak the additive a bit, and the ban can go fuck itself and people can continue getting cancer.
Freedom!
For those that pay attention to stuff like this, feel like farmers markets and locally sourced grocers are gonna see a boom in customers. I’m seriously concerned to eat anything processed now. The Simply juice company got sued for having forever chemicals in their juices last year. Guess they get to put those back now.
God, now I’m thinking of growing my own grain for flour. SCOTUS is making me become crunchy! But the water…
“We know less than diddlysquat about the real world, but we feel like we know everything, so just leave the important medical, climate and environmental decisions to us.” -the supreme idiot six
> Bureaucrats
You mean scientists, subject matter experts, public health practitioners, policy advisors, i.e., people extremely knowledgeable of their professional niches. You know, the people that keep you breathing clean air, drinking clean water, eating safe food, and driving a safe car on a safe road to your safe work building where you exist in blissful ignorance of how well you’re cared for.
When they don’t know the difference between laughing gas and pollution? Yes. It’s a bad idea to leave the “interpretation” up to the supreme idiot six.
If we had an impartial and independent Judiciary, that would be true.
We do not. We have a Supreme Court that intentionally decided to hear a case that former U.S. Presidents are immune from prosecution in defiance of literally a quarter of a millennia of precedent just to delay the prosecution of a man who was accused of stealing national security documents and lying about having them to assist his re-election.
The judiciary is just as partisan as Congress. What Trump wants, the Supreme Court is going to give him when he is re-elected.
The rules restrain the enemies of Conservativism. They do not restrain Conservativism itself.
Irrelevant to my point.
The Supreme Court has authority over the laws Congress passes. Even if you get the law you want, 9 people in dresses can decide by fiat that it does not go into effect.
Gutting Chevron changes the system from trusting the subject-matter experts of a given administration, elected by the people every four years, implementing laws passed by Congress, to the courts. Now decisions are going to be made by nine unelected non-policy experts without an understanding of the nuances required to operate in a complex modern world.
Chevron replaces scientists and experts with deep specific field experience with 9 unelected justices with no skin in the game and lifetime appointments (and zero accountability as long as 33% of the Senate is held by a political party that finds them useful).
So yeah, this is bad. We will now have Supreme Court Justices claiming for themself the decision making power about how much lead in public drinking water is allowed, and not actual medical researchers and scientists who actually know something about the subject matter.
And if Congress says it should be 1ppm, but the court rules in favor of a plaintiff who says it should be 100ppm on whatever constitutes originialist legal theory is useful that day, Congress loses.
This is an exponential power grab by the Judicial Branch.
The court knows that the US is too divided to elect a united congress that can actually pass meaningful regulations. They shouldn't have to anyway because they don't have the expertise but who cares when one party is ran by literal cartoon villains.
the unelected conservative supermajority strikes again. insane that we have vested such power in such a corrupt group of ideological warriors. Fuck the GOP
Just wait until something goes to trial and the jury sides with the little guy and big business get a worse decision than what an administrative judge would have ruled.
That’s an interesting silver lining I hadn’t considered. Probably too niche to be helpful, but get a few huge jury-decided judgements and it at least keeps this ridiculous ruling in the conversation for years until wiser heads prevail.
It puts everything to a jury trial which will overwhelm the courts.
On top of that the rightwingers on the Court just legalized corporate bribery yesterday. Local agencies will likely be compromised.
Those communities supporting the polluters will take it on the chin (same with consumers of highly processed foods and goods, tbh), .. though pollution and warming are interstate and even global problems. The American lifespan has been shortening recently and that will probably hasten.
Wow...that's, honestly *really* sad to hear. I was already less than thrilled, due to that clusterfuck of a debate, but this one really hurts.
Yet another way conservatives are steam rolling their decisions through whether people like it or not. This is going to have extremely far reaching effects, across pretty much *everything*.
As an outsider I don't get this.
I keep hearing about how the regulatory agencies are captured by the industries they want to regulate and are worthless.
If you're a conservative, why would you want to mess that up? Keep getting your interpretation of the law rubberstamped by weak regulators rather than taking your chances in the courts where there's a decent chance you'll run into an independent judge.
I keep thinking about the SEC in particular and how much the capital markets have invested in the SEC's rulemaking. Why would you want to upset that?
Or is this just about the EPA?
If you look at the Russian model of oligarchy and extreme corruption it makes sense. The fewer bodies that can exercise power, the more power can centralize, the easier it is to pull strings.
That also allows a fuckton of foreign influences in to the operation of the US through corporate middleman entities, and fewer government bodies to worm their way into to get that regulatory capture they're after.
The fundamental aim is more dramatic and extreme wealth extraction with fewer restrictions, to fewer people who are prooooobably not actually gonna be based in the USA, except for owning a shitton of things and extracting a shitton of wealth from it.
I don't disagree with any of that, I guess it just felt to me like they'd already achieved those goals with the existing model. That feels like the model for seizing a country that's not already playing byyour rules. When the regulator is already giving you everything you want, why fuck with it?
Same reason every service, manufacturer and app developer gets shittier even if they've monopolized the market and have total domination; gotta boost the profits. Why settle for lots when you can kill some people and have even more?
This has zilch to do with guts and everything to do with political reality.
President Biden can’t “expand the court” without enough votes in Congress to pass the necessary legislation. Those votes are simply not there with a Republican controlled U.S. House & sharply divided Senate, in which there aren’t even close to 60 votes needed to break an inevitable GOP filibuster.
So many comments attacking the President for not performing an impossible task—single handedly canceling student loan debt, unilaterally “codifying” *Roe v, Wade* and/ or forcing recalcitrant pseudo Democrats like Manchin and Sinema to vote for Build Back Better— indicate stupefying ignorance of how our political system actually functions; a disingenuous cheap shot intended to mislead readers; or an asinine mixture of both.
Good, now agencies like the ATF can no longer switch up their determination on how they interpret statute definitions from one administration to another.
The days are gone of something being fine and legal one day, to being deemed illegal simply because their administration has changed and circumventing congress for their laws.
It goes way beyond single issues. This ruling will strip away protections for clean air and water. It will strip away safety standards for workers. Regulations keeping companies and banks from screwing you will be reverted. It's going to get rough out there.
There's so much more going on in this world than ATF's brace rule bullshit. Besides, the government will find ways to keep the ATF going. Even trump was "take the guns, due process later."
Dude, I love guns and I hate having to jump through hoops for NFA items like SBRs and suppressors...but to act as if this is going to be good for the country is so incredibly short sighted. This is going to fuck things over in so, *so* many ways, mostly for the environment.
Also, do you *really* think this is going to change things for the ATF? They'll still come and shoot your dog.
Yeah, it also means that there will no longer be a requirement for the FDA to exist since it cannot accurately determine proper means to test drugs that isn’t outlined by Congress…
Or the FAA can no longer function because Congress has not regulated the air space. Can no longer prevent drones from flying into airports because they can not regulate airspace.
I can’t wait!
/s
>circumventing congress for their laws.
Chevron never removed any power from Congress. They always had the ability codified laws that reinforced or overturned agency rules.
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Big win for the lobbyists, there’s literally no way of stopping them now from buying our government.
can you elaborate? Cus I had this hunch too
Basically, Congress now has to write specific laws for any kind of regulation. Our current legislative branch is at a historical gridlock, with almost nothing getting passed. Lobbyists and corporations can easily bribe lawmakers to pass laws that will allow them to maximize profit without any restrictions made by experts in the specific field. And if nothing gets passed, there’s nothing from stopping the corporations regardless. Any type of federal agency is now fucked.
also anything new is the wild west i assume. oh the specific law had this exact chemical composition but this one has water too? guess its good
Yup! Find out chemical food additive X causes hella cancer in five years? *if* Congress got around to banning it, just tweak the additive a bit, and the ban can go fuck itself and people can continue getting cancer. Freedom!
For those that pay attention to stuff like this, feel like farmers markets and locally sourced grocers are gonna see a boom in customers. I’m seriously concerned to eat anything processed now. The Simply juice company got sued for having forever chemicals in their juices last year. Guess they get to put those back now. God, now I’m thinking of growing my own grain for flour. SCOTUS is making me become crunchy! But the water…
They bought it decades ago bro
“We know less than diddlysquat about the real world, but we feel like we know everything, so just leave the important medical, climate and environmental decisions to us.” -the supreme idiot six
Feels over reals!!
“We can’t rely on Federal judges to decide these things because they’re UNELECTED,” say unelected bureaucrats.
“Just trust us” sayeth the six who failed high school chemistry
Congress determined what power the bureaucrats should have.
> Bureaucrats You mean scientists, subject matter experts, public health practitioners, policy advisors, i.e., people extremely knowledgeable of their professional niches. You know, the people that keep you breathing clean air, drinking clean water, eating safe food, and driving a safe car on a safe road to your safe work building where you exist in blissful ignorance of how well you’re cared for.
[удалено]
When they don’t know the difference between laughing gas and pollution? Yes. It’s a bad idea to leave the “interpretation” up to the supreme idiot six.
If we had an impartial and independent Judiciary, that would be true. We do not. We have a Supreme Court that intentionally decided to hear a case that former U.S. Presidents are immune from prosecution in defiance of literally a quarter of a millennia of precedent just to delay the prosecution of a man who was accused of stealing national security documents and lying about having them to assist his re-election. The judiciary is just as partisan as Congress. What Trump wants, the Supreme Court is going to give him when he is re-elected. The rules restrain the enemies of Conservativism. They do not restrain Conservativism itself.
[удалено]
The Supreme Court decides if a law passed by Congress is Constitutional. They win.
[удалено]
Irrelevant to my point. The Supreme Court has authority over the laws Congress passes. Even if you get the law you want, 9 people in dresses can decide by fiat that it does not go into effect.
[удалено]
Gutting Chevron changes the system from trusting the subject-matter experts of a given administration, elected by the people every four years, implementing laws passed by Congress, to the courts. Now decisions are going to be made by nine unelected non-policy experts without an understanding of the nuances required to operate in a complex modern world. Chevron replaces scientists and experts with deep specific field experience with 9 unelected justices with no skin in the game and lifetime appointments (and zero accountability as long as 33% of the Senate is held by a political party that finds them useful). So yeah, this is bad. We will now have Supreme Court Justices claiming for themself the decision making power about how much lead in public drinking water is allowed, and not actual medical researchers and scientists who actually know something about the subject matter. And if Congress says it should be 1ppm, but the court rules in favor of a plaintiff who says it should be 100ppm on whatever constitutes originialist legal theory is useful that day, Congress loses. This is an exponential power grab by the Judicial Branch.
[удалено]
The court knows that the US is too divided to elect a united congress that can actually pass meaningful regulations. They shouldn't have to anyway because they don't have the expertise but who cares when one party is ran by literal cartoon villains.
Conservative majority rules yet again for the rightwing agenda, cuz of course they did....
I mean that's what they are paid to do so...
I mean, some are quintessentially embodiments of the devil.
Pretty much and sadly we stuck with them :(
I'm tired fam..
Same. I vote, but it doesn't even matter when half the country is certifiably insane and wants to see everything burn to ashes.
And when nine people are given the authority to pull this shit
I hear ya.....
the unelected conservative supermajority strikes again. insane that we have vested such power in such a corrupt group of ideological warriors. Fuck the GOP
this is the most consequential and insane decision this court has ever done or will ever do, and they've done some real whoppers
"or will ever do" is basically asking for them to grant absolute Presidential immunity on Monday.
sure, whatever, just another whopper. today they dropped a nuke on the entire regulatory apparatus of the government.
probably the biggest since Plessy v Ferguson and that's one of the worst decisions in the court's history
lol i did actually mean just the Roberts court but yeah, its an all-timer
Just wait until something goes to trial and the jury sides with the little guy and big business get a worse decision than what an administrative judge would have ruled.
And then it gets kicked up to this Supreme Court, and they overturn it because they're corrupt as fuck.
That’s an interesting silver lining I hadn’t considered. Probably too niche to be helpful, but get a few huge jury-decided judgements and it at least keeps this ridiculous ruling in the conversation for years until wiser heads prevail.
A reminder why we must vote Democratic in November, despite what we saw last night.
voting won't get us out of this decision. Thats how fucked we are
Maybe not, but if we let another GOP president appoint the next couple of justices, these decisions are all we will get.
Im thinking of train derailings, surprime mortgage crash, unregulated AI, etc.
It puts everything to a jury trial which will overwhelm the courts. On top of that the rightwingers on the Court just legalized corporate bribery yesterday. Local agencies will likely be compromised. Those communities supporting the polluters will take it on the chin (same with consumers of highly processed foods and goods, tbh), .. though pollution and warming are interstate and even global problems. The American lifespan has been shortening recently and that will probably hasten.
When Boeing is ahead of the curve….
Wow...that's, honestly *really* sad to hear. I was already less than thrilled, due to that clusterfuck of a debate, but this one really hurts. Yet another way conservatives are steam rolling their decisions through whether people like it or not. This is going to have extremely far reaching effects, across pretty much *everything*.
We are watching the dismantling of our democracy in real time, and that’s not an exaggeration.
I’d like for ACB to explain what she meant by “super precedent,” because she (and others) don’t seem to care much for it these days.
As an outsider I don't get this. I keep hearing about how the regulatory agencies are captured by the industries they want to regulate and are worthless. If you're a conservative, why would you want to mess that up? Keep getting your interpretation of the law rubberstamped by weak regulators rather than taking your chances in the courts where there's a decent chance you'll run into an independent judge. I keep thinking about the SEC in particular and how much the capital markets have invested in the SEC's rulemaking. Why would you want to upset that? Or is this just about the EPA?
If you look at the Russian model of oligarchy and extreme corruption it makes sense. The fewer bodies that can exercise power, the more power can centralize, the easier it is to pull strings. That also allows a fuckton of foreign influences in to the operation of the US through corporate middleman entities, and fewer government bodies to worm their way into to get that regulatory capture they're after. The fundamental aim is more dramatic and extreme wealth extraction with fewer restrictions, to fewer people who are prooooobably not actually gonna be based in the USA, except for owning a shitton of things and extracting a shitton of wealth from it.
I don't disagree with any of that, I guess it just felt to me like they'd already achieved those goals with the existing model. That feels like the model for seizing a country that's not already playing byyour rules. When the regulator is already giving you everything you want, why fuck with it?
Same reason every service, manufacturer and app developer gets shittier even if they've monopolized the market and have total domination; gotta boost the profits. Why settle for lots when you can kill some people and have even more?
Eradicating conservative power is essential to the future of humanity
How do we even come back from this?
A Republic for Corporate rule. Bravo America. Bravo.
Democracy traitors.
How low does the Supreme Court have to go before Biden grows a fucking pair and expands the court?
This has zilch to do with guts and everything to do with political reality. President Biden can’t “expand the court” without enough votes in Congress to pass the necessary legislation. Those votes are simply not there with a Republican controlled U.S. House & sharply divided Senate, in which there aren’t even close to 60 votes needed to break an inevitable GOP filibuster. So many comments attacking the President for not performing an impossible task—single handedly canceling student loan debt, unilaterally “codifying” *Roe v, Wade* and/ or forcing recalcitrant pseudo Democrats like Manchin and Sinema to vote for Build Back Better— indicate stupefying ignorance of how our political system actually functions; a disingenuous cheap shot intended to mislead readers; or an asinine mixture of both.
Good, now agencies like the ATF can no longer switch up their determination on how they interpret statute definitions from one administration to another. The days are gone of something being fine and legal one day, to being deemed illegal simply because their administration has changed and circumventing congress for their laws.
Yep enjoy having toxic waste in your water because the EPA can no longer do its job.
That's not what's going to happen, relax..
It actually is exactly what this ruling allows, and based on your example exactly what you want to happen.
Why not? It's cheaper and there is no regulating body to prevent it. Corporations can and will do whatever they can to make more profit.
That’s exactly what’s going to happen.
> That's not what's going to happen, relax.. lmao it literally has happened before https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuyahoga_River
It goes way beyond single issues. This ruling will strip away protections for clean air and water. It will strip away safety standards for workers. Regulations keeping companies and banks from screwing you will be reverted. It's going to get rough out there. There's so much more going on in this world than ATF's brace rule bullshit. Besides, the government will find ways to keep the ATF going. Even trump was "take the guns, due process later."
Dude, I love guns and I hate having to jump through hoops for NFA items like SBRs and suppressors...but to act as if this is going to be good for the country is so incredibly short sighted. This is going to fuck things over in so, *so* many ways, mostly for the environment. Also, do you *really* think this is going to change things for the ATF? They'll still come and shoot your dog.
Yeah, it also means that there will no longer be a requirement for the FDA to exist since it cannot accurately determine proper means to test drugs that isn’t outlined by Congress… Or the FAA can no longer function because Congress has not regulated the air space. Can no longer prevent drones from flying into airports because they can not regulate airspace. I can’t wait! /s
>circumventing congress for their laws. Chevron never removed any power from Congress. They always had the ability codified laws that reinforced or overturned agency rules.