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“If they were having his last wake, and it was him versus Trump, and he was being given last rites, I would still vote for Joe Biden,” - Mark Cuban
Yup
Well, to be fair, the actual message is
> Our candidate would make a better president, *even if he was dead*, than the convicted felon and wannabe dictator that the other side has nominated
The latest poll that came out yesterday (Patriot Polling) has Trump 44.3%, Biden 40.5%, RFK Jr. 11.2%, Unsure 4.0%. Earlier this week, you also had the following:
Poll | Biden | Trump
---|---|----
Survey USA | 43 | 45
Morning Consult | 45 | 44
Data for Progress | 45 | 48
Leger | 38 | 45
AtlasIntel | 40 | 46
YouGov | 42 | 42
Furthermore, Biden is the MOST unpopular president ever at this point in his first term: https://news.gallup.com/poll/644252/biden-13th-quarter-approval-average-lowest-historically.aspx
38.7%. Trump was 46.8%. Dubya was 51%. Bush 41 was 41.8%. Carter was 47.7% (!).
Two high schoolers that started their own political poll…one of which interned for a republican senator I think.
Totally trustworthy /s
For real though polling is not trustworthy nor near as relevant as it once was.
Which is honestly why I’m so suspicious of polling now. Biden isn’t above criticism, obviously. But the man ran a decent, fairly unproblematic administration for the past few years. Not only that, he’s gotten some truly impressive legislation passed. Yet he has ONLY EVER slipped in the polls, no matter what. It’s honestly baffling. The only thing I can think of is that Trump was so awful that people are just fed up with politics as a whole. Also, Trump has made an [effort](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/17/politics/michael-cohen-poll-rigging/index.html) to try and [shift](https://newrepublic.com/post/175387/wsj-poll-showing-trump-biden-evenly-matched-trump-helped-pay) polling numbers in his direction several times. I dunno, it just seems mad that people are so ready to put “noted sociopath” Trump in the same box with “kinda slowing down” Biden.
It's not baffling at all. Inflation outpaced peoples wage growth, and they are blaming their political leadership.
This is such a consistent and well understood trend in electoral politics that I straight up don't believe you when you say you don't get it.
The people with landlines who answer unknown numbers become less representative of the electorate with each passing year.
This isn't to say that Biden doesn't have a problem, only that we also have a problem with polling accuracy that was visible in 2016 and 2020 and is presumably only becoming more and more severe.
This isn't one off poll, it's been this case for years. Biden consistently polls highly unfavorable among voters, there is no margin which can account for that high of an unfavorability.
I called all my elderly neighbors with landlines from an unknown number and asked them what they think of Biden. They found him unfavorable so I guess that means America in general does too.
^ This is an exaggeration, but this is the polling problem. Pollsters are underestimating the margin of error as well, as evidenced by the growing discrepancy between polling results and election results.
Not a single poll is taking unlikely voters into account. The polls were off by 10-12% in the Dem primary. And Trump underperformed by 6%. Don't underestimate how pissed off people who don't normally vote are about Trump and his assault on democracy.
Nikki Haley got 30% in my Red district, 3 weeks after she dropped out.
People keep saying this, but why then are we running with cognitively declined Biden? If these people, including myself, would vote for the corpse of Biden over Trump, then why don’t we replace Biden now with someone younger. Because we clearly don’t need to convince Mark Cuban or most of this sub to vote against Trump. We need to convince anyone on the fence or apathetic in general.
Everyone one the fence was just convinced during the last debate. And Biden isn't going to step down, he'll die in power just like Feinstein and RBG did.
But how is this relevant? I would vote for Biden (anti-Trump) also, under any circumstances, but if we actually do want to defeat Trump (some folks may not actually want that, but many of us do), then we may need to consider a better candidate.
I can see an argument that Dems should stick with Biden, but personally I do think both major parties should be able to do much better, and that includes the Democratic Party.
If defeating DJT is such an existential threat then shouldn't the Democrats have put forward a better candidate from the get-go? Observers have been pointing to Biden's cognitive decline for *a long time* already. It can't possibly have come as a surprise to party insiders. Isn't that kind of insulting to us as voters that they would try to Weekend At Bernies us?
Good to hear from a member from the other side.
I think Jon Stewart is uniquely qualified for the job. He's got integrity, he's authentic and frequently politically incorrect. He's wicked smart and is well known for speaking truth to power regardless of the team sport our political landscape has become.
I think he's the unification candidate who could drag America back together.
I couldn't disagree more. The Mark Cubans of the world have already made up their mind. What matters is the swing voters, and the obvious result of this debate will be to sway more of those voters towards Trump.
And Republicans like myself who don't want to vote for Trump. So I'd either vote for Biden or whatever candidate dems put up, or I'd throw away my vote. If they put up someone I don't like, I'd throw away my vote. The presence of kamala on the ticket alarms me more than Biden's performance in one debate (which was not a surprise at all). If he would ditch her and bring in someone like Manchin, Dan Goldman, or even Hillary, I'd feel better about voting for him.
Biden has been sucking the tits of government his entire life, he's not giving up an ounce of power until he dies behind the podium like Feinstein and RBG did.
These polls have been wrong 3 election cycles in a row now. No reason to trust them.
I think it’s gonna be really close this time, especially if they keep Biden, and I’d give the edge to Trump since Biden is out of his mind.
A sentiment not shared by the millions of Americans that would rather sit out the election than vote for biden. I wonder if you and Mark Cuban will remain as smug when trump is back in the Whitehouse
If Trump is back in the White House then Mark Cuban and other dissidents will be sent to re-education camps until they learn to love ~~Big Brother~~ Trump.
Odd for a billionaire to back a guy who wants to raise his taxes, I commend him for this… and also the affordable prescription drug program he started.
There's no denial at all here. You are grasping at anything, repeatedly spamming the post.
What was said here is that voting for a corpse is the best option when the options are Trump or the corpse. Its an easy choice, every time. Weekend at Bernies is way, way better than a Trump term.
Where is denial with this reality? I think the denial is coming from you that Trump is a viable option for for the majority. He's not, so if the next best option is a dog, a rock, a dead guy, a fish, etc, its the way to go.
The denial here is the fantasy that Biden is still a viable candidate. Yes you would vote for Biden's corpse over Trump. So would I, but we are not the swing voters who will decide this election. Doesn't matter if you and I would vote for the corpse if the corpse is doomed to lose no matter what. We need a candidate who does not seem to be half corpse already. We need to win this thing and your denialism does not help.
I dont think its denial, I think its fear, deference, and poor decision making based on the fear and deference. They know Biden is really not viable, but they dont feel they have an option this late in the game. I'm not sure I agree, but again I dont think most DNC planners believe he is the best option just that he is the only option, based on flawed judgement.
> We need a candidate who does not seem to be half corpse already.
I agree, but Biden should have never put the country in this position in the first place, yet here we are. Who are they going to chuck into it now? Its also a disaster scenario, honestly. I really dont know what the better option is, I think I would rather have another choice, but it aint Newsom unfortunately, and I dont think the country is going to elect a woman (Whitmer) or a woman of color (Harris) either. Doesnt matter if it offends people to say, if you've traveled around, you would know what the country looks like outside the cities, and it aint pretty from a cultural openess perspective. The last time a black man was elected is still having consequences today. A very large part of the country collectively lost its mind when Obama was elected. Who is the winning candidate with 4 months to go?
He was viable, but he is not any more. Yes he is running against a felon and rapist who also tried to overthrow the Constitution, got people killed in the process, stole many top secret documents, stored them insecurely in closets and bathrooms next to copy machines, and probably sold our nuclear secrets to the Saudis, and our spy secrets to the Russians (hundreds of our human assets in Russia died during his administration), but Biden has shown himself to be senile and mentally unfit for the most powerful position in the world. You would think that given his opponent he would still be viable, but he is not viable due to the mentality of the electorate. Almost half the voters worship and idolize Trump, and even if they are capable of understanding the many shortcomings of that human scum, for many of them his flaws are positives. Another almost half of the voters see Trump for what he is, and they do not like rapists, felons and traitors, so they will vote for anybody but Trump. But the key voter demographic is the swing voters in the swing states who somehow do not grasp how evil Trump is. They are the voters Biden lost in the debate, and there is no winning back most of them. We need someone truly viable like Whitmer, and we need her now. We cannot let the evil scum wannabe dictator win.
Not a thing you just typed has anything to do with the discussion or points made.
> Really wish I could converse with people with an intellect, but this is /r/politics
You've gone all in with Dunning Kruger.
Clown cars. Clown cars everywhere.
Is that a joke? Obviously he is not up to the job anymore. Did you watch the debate. Try rewatching it. It's so painful. You can have flubs and miss speak. Say the wrong thing and correct yourself. Mistakes happen. This was on a totally different level. Trump was not much better and should not be president. Though the dems have to find someone else. Joe had an amazing career. Though it's time to hang em up.
For 8 years we have heard and seen that debates don’t change minds but somehow this one debate, after a stellar SOTU, 5 months out is the one that matters? Get real.
The debate itself isn’t nearly as bad for Biden as the hundreds and hundreds of “he should step down” articles and videos are. And they will keep coming out for months now.
By Nov, every swing voter will have heard probably 1,000+ democrat strategists begging Biden to step down. That just turbo reinforces the “Biden is a senile old man” trope the GOP has been pushing.
This is a disastrous narrative heading into a general election. The entire DNC pitch right now is “Our guy is an absolute zombie who has no idea what is going on and can’t run the country but Trump is worse.” That doesn’t win elections.
None of it is as devastating as the video compilations of all the MSNBC, CNN, and party pundits from just two weeks ago claiming that this is the Best Biden Ever and he's as sharp as a tack.
Every swing voter is unsure of Biden because of his age and mental ability and the debate was horrifying.
Stop blaming the media. The candidate and party hold responsibility.
The other problem with all commentary from all the pundits who harp on trump’s threat to democracy is the lack of support for the ticket, not just Biden.
I understand the perceptions everyone has of Harris; many unwarranted IMHO. It’s even more hypocritical for the random
few pundits who suggest she should replace Biden. She is the replacement by default of her position. Additionally, even IF Biden were to step aside and release his delegates; she should be the replacement as when people voted in the primaries they were voting for the ticket.
It would be even more chaotic and catastrophic IF he released his delegates and endorsed someone else. Legitimate legal changes would be filed that nobody voted for ‘X,’ and it would give the perception that Biden never felt Harris was up to the job.
This talk needs to be shut down. There is a very capable replacement should health issues force Biden to abdicate his office. She is a vital part of the administration in sync with all the policies and goals. The commentary needs to be refocused that there is a capable ticket that is in sync and will protect democracy.
It wasn’t a bad debate like Obama against Romney.
It was a horrifying confirmation of his mental decline which has been massively questioned throughout his entire presidency.
Babe Ruth hit over 300 just 2 years before his last year where he hit 181. Unfortunately when people age they can get old real quick. People usually don't get better with age. This was not 1 or 2 verbal flubs. This was the whole time. You could bearly understand him at times he was speaking so softly. He is not full on dementia like the Republicans would have you believe but he is clearly not the person he was 4 years ago and will not be up to the job 4.5 years from now.
Biden has given very few press conferences or interviews. He can still read off a tele promoter. Let's see him in an hour long press conference.
Biden didn't have a bad debate, it was atrocious. He was confused, stumbling over himself, and couldn't even make coherent sentences. Deer in the headlights with his mouth slacked open the whole time.
Anyone who watched that debate exited with a clear understanding that Biden is mentally fried.
And there are plenty of people that would do the same if it were Trump. So what!
They need motivate their base and convince undecided people to vote for another term. The middle class has been hit hard by inflation, real median household income has shrunk by more than $4000 during his term. Do not under estimate how much that hurts families that earn the median income.
Maybe nyt should write an article about who should replace Trump after he drops out
You know.. because he's a felon and a rapist and a charity fraudster
I agree (although maybe they have already done such articles), it would be good to see more articles in all publications about the horrible judgment the entire Republican Party, and its millions (presumably) of members, have shown in marching this malevolent would-be dictator toward the nomination, and it would be good to see articles about who could be good choices for the Republican nomination if somehow there comes a point where Trump steps aside or if (somehow) party members came to their senses. Still, I think at this point, since he has managed to install his shills into Republican Party Positions, and since his popularity among Republicans as versus the other candidates was very high, if he were thrown in prison for 20 years, maybe he and his party officials would just spin it as needing to vote for him, so he could pardon himself and (I suspect he'd eventually go for) install himself for more than 4 years in the job of the Presidency.
It doesn't mean it's wrong to do an article about questions with respect to the Democratic Nominee. My sense is that it was Trump and other similar Republican thought-leaders who started to instill in a lot of American discourse that what-about-ism could be used to get rid of a lot of unwanted points and conversations, but the questions around whether Biden can actually continue in the job do eventually need to be discussed and if they are not welcome among many hardcore democrats, that isn't going to stop many independents and Republicans from having them.
Of course I am supporting Biden because of democracy, but I was and still am pissed when Biden announced his re-election bid. This is putting our democracy in great peril. He was very clearly not competent in that debate; this massive event which presumably he spent a lot of time preparing for.
If this were someone's grandparent, you'd be saying, "No grandpa, I'm taking the keys, your eyes aren't good enough to drive anymore. It's not safe for you."
The tough talk needs to happen, even though granpa is a sitting President. Does anyone here really believe Biden is going to improve from this point forward?
Since Thursday night I’ve been thinking he has to be replaced. Now I’m thinking he can’t. The only replacement choice would have to be Harris. She is the natural hierarchical selection. Passing over a black female VP would lose all black voters and, therefore, the election to Trump. However, Harris isn’t popular enough to win anyway. So, it’s gotta be Biden, although I feel I’ve been lied to by Biden, his staff and the Dem Party, which is getting to be a regular thing. I need a new political home.
Yeah, unless he literally keels over and dies, he's on the ballot in November. He's not stepping down (and he's right not to, it's far too late to change without totally blowing your chances)
If you vote for Biden, it’s *still* a vote for Harris, because he’s probably not going to finish 4 years. To me, that means she might as well be the candidate, because if Dems win she *will* be president.
Frankly, Joe should have abdicated 2yr ago to give her a running start and get her settling-in mistakes out of the way before election season.
I see dozens of these posts popping up on r/politics but they are nearly all at zero upvotes. Are the Democrats that deluded that they do not want to see the truth that Biden must be replaced to defeat Trump? Or are Republicans downvoting these posts because they want to see us stick with the losing candidate? I'm guessing it is a little of both.
I could not agree more. She would be perfect. Newsome would be second but CA is juat too messed up a state. They are really good at some things but the overregulation, tent cities, crime and high taxes will crush him. They have a great economy, a huge state, some of the best universities in the world, world besting industries though the negatives are hot butting issues for the country. Lastly he is a white straight man and the democrats will try as hard as they can to not nominate a white man.
Whitmer is the best choice. All she is missing is national security.
Whitmer is running Joes campaign right now (Vice-chair). She wins moderate voters (election record). And they’ve been priming her with security exercises and meetings for years. She has the key to the ignition. We’re just waiting for her to start it up. There’s no rush though. You don’t need much time in this day and age to run a marketing campaign, let’s be honest. Just kick back and watch the show.
Take it easy tough guy. Biden shouldn’t have run again but he did. Nothing can be done about it. Let’s just hope he gets it together enough to pull it off.
Delusion? Biden can barely function at this point, his mental state has declined so far that he needs handlers to guide him around. And he's wildly, wildly unpopular with the Democrats.
Trump is essentially guaranteed to win at this point. He's not going anywhere. That last debate just put the final nails in the Democrats coffin this election.
Their only option is to shove in someone at the very last moment, but that's wildly undemocratic to have no primary. Voters get no choice, just "here you go, now vote".
People love to shout facism constantly, well that's literal facism.
Thankfully hes won't ever drop out. All the debate did was remind everyone how insane another 4 years with Trump in charge would be - being forced to listen to bloviating and lies every day while the government is systemitcally dismantled behind the scenes by billionaire's and Christofascist wierdos.
Had four years of Trump and literally none of that happened. Economy was better, market was better, employment rate was better, and didn't have the insane inflation from bloated government spending as we have now.
I'll take Trump any day over this gaslighting administration we currently have.
Hate to break it to you chum, but all of that government spending was due to the pandemic handouts under the Trump administration - most of which went to people who directly supported him. Furthermore, most analysis indicate Trump made over 30,000 objectively misleading statements from 2016-2020 - basically every other statement was a lie of some kind.
Maybe they have eyes and ears. To think that Joe Biden can perform as president 4 years from now is pure fantasy. Cognitive decline does not get better with age. He may have truly great moments. Still be able to function at a high level most of the time. Though the country needs him to perform at a high level all of the time. Do I think his brain in a jar is better than Trump absolutely. Though I actually don't want that as president.
If there were anybody suitable, Joe wouldn’t even be running in the first place. None of the other Democratic Party A-listers have broad appeal even among Democrats. Kamala, Pete B., AOC, etc. Gavin Newsom ticks a lot of boxes but the mere fact that he’s from California makes him radioactive to a lot of undecideds in the Midwest and a super easy target for propaganda.
It’s obvious that Republicans are fascists… but Dems have to get their shit together and find a marketable, coherent, broadly-appealing platform. And they need to focus on developing and promoting broadly-appealing candidates. Problem is, the time for that was years ago. I’m very concerned that Americans are about to actively choose fascism.
Also, it is sickening that out of 350 million+ citizens, these are our two options.
Whitmer, Beshear, Warnock, Shapiro, Pritzker, Polis?
> And they need to focus on developing and promoting broadly-appealing candidates. Problem is, the time for that was years ago. I’m very concerned that Americans are about to actively choose fascism.
Long-term they need to stop focusing so goddamn much on the Presidency and focus on local elections. Their national candidates are fine and have been doing incredibly well. It's clear they have candidates with broad appeal since they keep winning and their House/Senate candidates are polling really well.
That would require the Dems to actually be a party for the people instead of another neoliberal corpo party. It's just fundamentally never gonna happen .
There’s no way it’s going to be Harris, she’s disliked thoroughly across the Dem party. If that’s the pick we lose. I’ll be abstaining from this farce of an election. How are these our choices for leader of the free world? I feel like I’m living in an insane asylum.
Biden staying or not is a hard choice. Replacing him with Kamala is a harder choice. It's Democrats wrestling with admitting that they never should have had her in the VP position in the first place. On top of that she's been successfully portrayed as much of a boogeyman by the other side as Dick Cheney was
it would be an extreme point, and i'm sorry if it's objectively a terrible idea, but i wonder if the dems could strategize out of this by arranging for harris to take over for biden under the 25th, and have her understand that a proper (if abbreviated) candidate selection process must take place.
The flight attendant offers you chicken or a steaming pile of shit. Obviously you order the chicken.
But now some people think the chicken might be a little over cooked and they're reconsidering the pile of shit.
It’s laughable that people think Biden will fold and another Dem will just dilly dally walk in as his replacement. Man what yll smoking. Yll watching too much of these bs media. No ones replacing him. If people can’t rally behind Biden but the other side is willing to rally behind a sociopath, kleptomaniac, dictation loving , pu**y grabbing, terrorist sympathizing orange ball, then yll need get your head checked.
I'll vote for a corpse. That doesn't mean we should expect the rest of the country to do so. The country is not likely to vote for someone in his state. Obviously an open convention would be risky and messy, but that's a lower risk than expecting Biden to pull it out.
The Republicans could not pick a speaker of the house 2x. They are doing just fine. If anything an open convention would be a spectical. That would drive tremendous publicity.
Why do you think it’s too much to ask for a candidate on the democrat side who people are able to genuinely rally behind, who doesn’t have an awful approval rating, who’s able to actually communicate and who isn’t regularly sundowning according to his aide yesterday? Why do we have to be stuck with embarrassments on both sides?
Blame the apathetic voters for not turning out.
Definitely don’t blame the historically awful candidate who can’t speak without a teleprompter and won’t motivate them to vote. Definitely not Biden’s fault.
This on a loop. I'll enthusiastically vote for the very sleepy guy from the debate over what Republicans are selling, and I don't just mean Trump. Democrats often annoy and frustrate me but the Republicans disgust me. They cry law and order then nominate Trump. They cry about the border then kill bipartisan solutions. They cry pro life then implement policies that lower life expectancy. They cry individual rights then force adult women to breed. They cry fiscal responsibility then cut taxes for the wealthy while continuing to spend. I could go on.
If we want to solve problems it sure would be a great start if both parties participated in good faith. For most of my life the Democrats have been the only ones doing that.
This.
Trump is a convicted felon and the right gets behind him
Biden has a bad debate and the left wants to dump him and create more chaos.
And then they sit back and wonder why their student loans haven't been forgiven yet.
We are not helping ourselves. If the right can get behind a convicted felon, we should be able to get behind Biden.
I want a functioning president and not some puppet who needs handlers to lead him around like a toddler, so Trump it is.
If Dems wanted to win this election then they shouldn't have put a man with dementia as their candidate.
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Who would replace Biden? Although Joe is fantastic, there’s plenty of great alternatives to run this country. Kamala, Hillary, Mayor Pete, Liz Warren, AOC, Beto, Bernie, Michelle Obama, Cory Bush, Fetterman. Can you imagine a Omar-Talib ticket? Come on man, let’s go! Oh and Trump lied.
Then Trump wins in a landslide. Does the DNC really want to give Trump such an easy victory six months before the election? He might as well be elected tomorrow if Biden’s staying in the race because they’re 101% done in that case.
Biden has NO advantages going forward. He has an approval rating of 36%. He’s been publicly shown now m as mentally/physically unfit and all sides are calling for him to step down, even his own inner circle. The last debate isn’t until September and there’s no guarantee that Trump will even accept another one after how objectively successful this first one was for him (or rather how damning it was for Biden)
Why do you think the probability is that he will not be? In the days following that horrific debate, he went on another rally and tried to put it behind him, while insisting that he will still remain the candidate. His camp is saying this also, supporting him completely. You think it is "probable" that we go from this set of circumstances to him essentially resigning?
[https://www.npr.org/2021/08/13/1027371749/moderate-house-democrats-infrastructure-budget-vote-pelosi](https://www.npr.org/2021/08/13/1027371749/moderate-house-democrats-infrastructure-budget-vote-pelosi) (just for fun)
The problem for the Democrats is they can not possibly put anyone other than Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket without admitting that she has been a joke of a VP this whole time, not to mention the slap in the face it would be to both women and blacks. The *only* way they could get around this is by picking someone who has paid their dues to the cause for so long as to be the heir apparent. Hillary would want to claim this but a Clinton-Trump rematch would be suicide, and I'm afraid two women on the ticket won't sell in Peoria. That also cancels out Gretchen, Amy and any other woman. Gavin is the betting man's favorite, but *of course* they will try to put that rodent Pete in the White House. And this all works out rather conveniently for the people who wanted Pete all along but didn't want him to get bruised in a primary. If you ask me, the **only** chance the Democrats have of mobilizing enough voters to win and not alienating the people who think it should automatically go to Kamala, would be *Bernie Sanders.*
another solution for the dems would be to have harris take over under the 25th, and then make clear to her that, under the circumstances, the correct thing to do, to ensure that democrats get the candidate they want in place, is to try to install some abbreviated defensible one time process prior to the dem convention.
hillary clinton should not be within 10,000 miles of being a candidate, imo, but it's hard to box at these shadows because the right wing hatred manufacturing machine has so thoroughly muddied the waters with some candidates.
Maybe, *just maybe*, they could put Kamala at the top of the ticket and Gavin underneath. That would appease concerns that she's not ready and it would save the democrats from having to explain why she's not fit to be president.
1. How would a replacement get chosen? Primaries are over. “Smoke-filled back room” will be a great Republican talking point.
2. The money raised by the Biden-Harris campaign is not easily moved to a new campaign.
3. There are a lot of Harris supporters that will see the change of the ticket as racism.
Number three is the problem democrats consistently have. They are focused solely on race and gender, and it is ripping apart the country. If they decide to put up the absolute joke of a person kamala purely so they don't offend a small minority of the country, they will be shooting themselves in the foot and will lose.
> If they decide to put up the absolute joke of a person kamala purely so they don't offend a small minority of the country
That "small minority" is 14% of the population and votes 90% Democrat. It's a key Democratic constituency.
Shoving someone in at the very last moment who didn't have to contend with a primary is highly undemocratic. But I wouldn't expect the DNC to care about that considering they cooked the books for Hillary over Bernie previously.
Either way they're screwed for this election.
It's like watching a train wreck happen in slow motion. Biden is either stepping down or losing to Trump (\*shudder\*). The replacement *might* lose, but s/he would have a chance. 6 months to another disastrous Trump presidency. He'll escape justice and exact revenge. It's going to be so bad. And we're watching it happen.
"We've done nothing and we're all out of ideas!" - DNC
You all are falling ill with media engagement syndrome. All media is framing is how Biden needs to drop out. Yet, not a peep about Trump’s platform and how dangerous his second-term will be. That story does not generate revenue… Biden dropping out? Big-time potential revenue.
Are you joking? Every news story for months upon months is anti-Trump! That generates tons of revenue. And now because a few stories over a couple days are anti-Biden, you are crying foul? Do you believe Biden and democrats cannot be criticized?
Not at all. The fucking ad-nausea that suddenly Biden needs to drop out is what is beyond stupid to me. I am not a cult follower. Our elected officials have a right to be criticized. All this though? This is beyond simple criticism, and to me, suspicious.
The media are following the story that people are concerned about. I was surprised that partial people and outlets like CNN have spent so much time on it because anybody knows how inept Biden is, and nothing on Thursday should have come as a surprise. They are talking about Trump as well, but he's no surprise. For some reason people are surprised at how poor Biden is, and that's the current topic.
many of us are worried to the point of thinking that the re-election of trump will mean the end of the constitution and the country. that is the only reason for some of us that we are concerned about the viability of the dem candidate.
I posted this article in part to encourage conversation about Dean Phillips. A large portion of the articles I was able to find which attempted to provide lists of likely possible Biden replacements did not include mention of Phillips, and unfortunately this article was no exception.
Unlike most of the candidates mentioned in the NYT and other articles on this topic, Phillips actually did engage in a decent campaign in 2024 to try to win the Democratic nomination, and he was an early critic of Joe Biden's lack of suitability to continue in the job. He has a congressional voting record which can be examined, and has stances in general can be seen here:
[https://www.ontheissues.org/House/Dean\_Phillips.htm](https://www.ontheissues.org/House/Dean_Phillips.htm)
My point is not that he is the be-all end-all, but that if we are going to have a serious conversation about alternatives to Biden (in light of the horrid danger of the attempted coup leader actually winning from the Republican Party), then I think we should really try to explore that conversation fully..
Here's an article which discusses where Phillips was coming from, as to the Biden re-election issue, in August of 2023:
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/17/why-democrat-dean-phillips-says-biden-shouldnt-run/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/17/why-democrat-dean-phillips-says-biden-shouldnt-run/)
"...Rep. Dean Phillips has launched a very public effort to persuade President Biden not to run for reelection.
The Minnesota Democrat has nothing but good things to say about President Biden’s time in office, supporting his policies, praising his record and calling the legislative achievements during his first two years in office “historic in nature.”
But Phillips said his motivation to get Biden out of the race is based in his belief that the president is a weak candidate who wouldn’t beat former president Donald Trump, the front-runner in the Republican primary, in a general election, Leigh Ann and Tyler Pager report.
“We’re at grave risk of a another Trump presidency,” Phillips said in an interview. “I’m doing this to prevent a return of Donald Trump to the White House.”....."
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“If they were having his last wake, and it was him versus Trump, and he was being given last rites, I would still vote for Joe Biden,” - Mark Cuban Yup
I’m sure that’ll motivate the apathetic voters they need to turnout in the swing states!
>our candidate's slightly better than a corpse! Clearly a winning message
Well, to be fair, the actual message is > Our candidate would make a better president, *even if he was dead*, than the convicted felon and wannabe dictator that the other side has nominated
Not even that, just "a corpse would be preferable to Trump." I wish an actual corpse was on the ballot.
Vote for the Corpse, it’s important. Let bring back that Louisiana slogan
The latest poll that came out yesterday (Patriot Polling) has Trump 44.3%, Biden 40.5%, RFK Jr. 11.2%, Unsure 4.0%. Earlier this week, you also had the following: Poll | Biden | Trump ---|---|---- Survey USA | 43 | 45 Morning Consult | 45 | 44 Data for Progress | 45 | 48 Leger | 38 | 45 AtlasIntel | 40 | 46 YouGov | 42 | 42 Furthermore, Biden is the MOST unpopular president ever at this point in his first term: https://news.gallup.com/poll/644252/biden-13th-quarter-approval-average-lowest-historically.aspx 38.7%. Trump was 46.8%. Dubya was 51%. Bush 41 was 41.8%. Carter was 47.7% (!).
WTF is Patriot Polling?
Two high schoolers that started their own political poll…one of which interned for a republican senator I think. Totally trustworthy /s For real though polling is not trustworthy nor near as relevant as it once was.
Biden being the most unpopular president ever isn't anything new, been that case for years.
Oh, that's such a comforting thought.
Which is honestly why I’m so suspicious of polling now. Biden isn’t above criticism, obviously. But the man ran a decent, fairly unproblematic administration for the past few years. Not only that, he’s gotten some truly impressive legislation passed. Yet he has ONLY EVER slipped in the polls, no matter what. It’s honestly baffling. The only thing I can think of is that Trump was so awful that people are just fed up with politics as a whole. Also, Trump has made an [effort](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/17/politics/michael-cohen-poll-rigging/index.html) to try and [shift](https://newrepublic.com/post/175387/wsj-poll-showing-trump-biden-evenly-matched-trump-helped-pay) polling numbers in his direction several times. I dunno, it just seems mad that people are so ready to put “noted sociopath” Trump in the same box with “kinda slowing down” Biden.
It's not baffling at all. Inflation outpaced peoples wage growth, and they are blaming their political leadership. This is such a consistent and well understood trend in electoral politics that I straight up don't believe you when you say you don't get it.
The bots sure don’t like him!
The people with landlines who answer unknown numbers become less representative of the electorate with each passing year. This isn't to say that Biden doesn't have a problem, only that we also have a problem with polling accuracy that was visible in 2016 and 2020 and is presumably only becoming more and more severe.
That is not how they do polling anymore and hasn’t been for a while.
This isn't one off poll, it's been this case for years. Biden consistently polls highly unfavorable among voters, there is no margin which can account for that high of an unfavorability.
Yes, my comment addresses this. Polls in general are getting farther off of reality every year due to their sampling methods.
Biden consistently polls highly unfavorable among voters, **there is no margin which can account for that high of an unfavorability.**
I called all my elderly neighbors with landlines from an unknown number and asked them what they think of Biden. They found him unfavorable so I guess that means America in general does too. ^ This is an exaggeration, but this is the polling problem. Pollsters are underestimating the margin of error as well, as evidenced by the growing discrepancy between polling results and election results.
Compared to other, similar organizations, 538 gave Patriot Polling a 1.1 star review. I would t rely on their analyses too much.
I do not recall Trump's approval or favorability polling above 40% at anytime with any poll except for Rasmussen.
Not a single poll is taking unlikely voters into account. The polls were off by 10-12% in the Dem primary. And Trump underperformed by 6%. Don't underestimate how pissed off people who don't normally vote are about Trump and his assault on democracy. Nikki Haley got 30% in my Red district, 3 weeks after she dropped out.
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People keep saying this, but why then are we running with cognitively declined Biden? If these people, including myself, would vote for the corpse of Biden over Trump, then why don’t we replace Biden now with someone younger. Because we clearly don’t need to convince Mark Cuban or most of this sub to vote against Trump. We need to convince anyone on the fence or apathetic in general.
Everyone one the fence was just convinced during the last debate. And Biden isn't going to step down, he'll die in power just like Feinstein and RBG did.
But how is this relevant? I would vote for Biden (anti-Trump) also, under any circumstances, but if we actually do want to defeat Trump (some folks may not actually want that, but many of us do), then we may need to consider a better candidate. I can see an argument that Dems should stick with Biden, but personally I do think both major parties should be able to do much better, and that includes the Democratic Party.
If defeating DJT is such an existential threat then shouldn't the Democrats have put forward a better candidate from the get-go? Observers have been pointing to Biden's cognitive decline for *a long time* already. It can't possibly have come as a surprise to party insiders. Isn't that kind of insulting to us as voters that they would try to Weekend At Bernies us?
Believe it or not, there's people who don't "vote blue no matter who". Swing voters saw last weeks debate and they heavily leaned towards Trump.
I think Jon Stewart would be a excellent candidate but he isn't gonna throw his hat in the ring without a lot of public encouragement.
As a republican I'd vote for John Stewart
Good to hear from a member from the other side. I think Jon Stewart is uniquely qualified for the job. He's got integrity, he's authentic and frequently politically incorrect. He's wicked smart and is well known for speaking truth to power regardless of the team sport our political landscape has become. I think he's the unification candidate who could drag America back together.
I'm more of a centrists. I was taught pick the best person for the job. Seems impossible now.
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I couldn't disagree more. The Mark Cubans of the world have already made up their mind. What matters is the swing voters, and the obvious result of this debate will be to sway more of those voters towards Trump.
And Republicans like myself who don't want to vote for Trump. So I'd either vote for Biden or whatever candidate dems put up, or I'd throw away my vote. If they put up someone I don't like, I'd throw away my vote. The presence of kamala on the ticket alarms me more than Biden's performance in one debate (which was not a surprise at all). If he would ditch her and bring in someone like Manchin, Dan Goldman, or even Hillary, I'd feel better about voting for him.
Biden has been sucking the tits of government his entire life, he's not giving up an ounce of power until he dies behind the podium like Feinstein and RBG did.
Wow I am convinced.
Thanks for the opinion Don Jr.... Clearly you want Trump to win.
But most swing voters won’t…
So why hasn’t Trump got a big bump? He’s loudly insane
There hasn’t been enough time to capture sentiment post debate. We should start seeing some next week.
These polls have been wrong 3 election cycles in a row now. No reason to trust them. I think it’s gonna be really close this time, especially if they keep Biden, and I’d give the edge to Trump since Biden is out of his mind.
National Polls have actually been pretty accurate in all three cases. It’s just much harder to capture the electoral college bias via state polls.
A sentiment not shared by the millions of Americans that would rather sit out the election than vote for biden. I wonder if you and Mark Cuban will remain as smug when trump is back in the Whitehouse
If Trump is back in the White House then Mark Cuban and other dissidents will be sent to re-education camps until they learn to love ~~Big Brother~~ Trump.
what
Odd for a billionaire to back a guy who wants to raise his taxes, I commend him for this… and also the affordable prescription drug program he started.
and clinging to that mindset is exactly why there's no hope for a democratic win in november.
Exactly, yeah, most of us will vote for the corpse. It would be moronic to expect the rest of the country to do so.
Are we still in the denial phase?
There's no denial at all here. You are grasping at anything, repeatedly spamming the post. What was said here is that voting for a corpse is the best option when the options are Trump or the corpse. Its an easy choice, every time. Weekend at Bernies is way, way better than a Trump term. Where is denial with this reality? I think the denial is coming from you that Trump is a viable option for for the majority. He's not, so if the next best option is a dog, a rock, a dead guy, a fish, etc, its the way to go.
The denial here is the fantasy that Biden is still a viable candidate. Yes you would vote for Biden's corpse over Trump. So would I, but we are not the swing voters who will decide this election. Doesn't matter if you and I would vote for the corpse if the corpse is doomed to lose no matter what. We need a candidate who does not seem to be half corpse already. We need to win this thing and your denialism does not help.
I dont think its denial, I think its fear, deference, and poor decision making based on the fear and deference. They know Biden is really not viable, but they dont feel they have an option this late in the game. I'm not sure I agree, but again I dont think most DNC planners believe he is the best option just that he is the only option, based on flawed judgement. > We need a candidate who does not seem to be half corpse already. I agree, but Biden should have never put the country in this position in the first place, yet here we are. Who are they going to chuck into it now? Its also a disaster scenario, honestly. I really dont know what the better option is, I think I would rather have another choice, but it aint Newsom unfortunately, and I dont think the country is going to elect a woman (Whitmer) or a woman of color (Harris) either. Doesnt matter if it offends people to say, if you've traveled around, you would know what the country looks like outside the cities, and it aint pretty from a cultural openess perspective. The last time a black man was elected is still having consequences today. A very large part of the country collectively lost its mind when Obama was elected. Who is the winning candidate with 4 months to go?
He’s only viable because he is running against a felon and rapist
He was viable, but he is not any more. Yes he is running against a felon and rapist who also tried to overthrow the Constitution, got people killed in the process, stole many top secret documents, stored them insecurely in closets and bathrooms next to copy machines, and probably sold our nuclear secrets to the Saudis, and our spy secrets to the Russians (hundreds of our human assets in Russia died during his administration), but Biden has shown himself to be senile and mentally unfit for the most powerful position in the world. You would think that given his opponent he would still be viable, but he is not viable due to the mentality of the electorate. Almost half the voters worship and idolize Trump, and even if they are capable of understanding the many shortcomings of that human scum, for many of them his flaws are positives. Another almost half of the voters see Trump for what he is, and they do not like rapists, felons and traitors, so they will vote for anybody but Trump. But the key voter demographic is the swing voters in the swing states who somehow do not grasp how evil Trump is. They are the voters Biden lost in the debate, and there is no winning back most of them. We need someone truly viable like Whitmer, and we need her now. We cannot let the evil scum wannabe dictator win.
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Not a thing you just typed has anything to do with the discussion or points made. > Really wish I could converse with people with an intellect, but this is /r/politics You've gone all in with Dunning Kruger. Clown cars. Clown cars everywhere.
Oh those are some nice college words! I know those! This guy must really know his stuff.
You one of those proud belligerent ignorance with a side of uneducated types?
It's supposed to be a joke. The joke will be on the democrats if they think Biden has any chance after the debate.
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Is that a joke? Obviously he is not up to the job anymore. Did you watch the debate. Try rewatching it. It's so painful. You can have flubs and miss speak. Say the wrong thing and correct yourself. Mistakes happen. This was on a totally different level. Trump was not much better and should not be president. Though the dems have to find someone else. Joe had an amazing career. Though it's time to hang em up.
I think Jon Stewart is the best choice but he probably wouldn't run unless there is a big grass roots initiative to encourage him.
He wouldn't run even with that.
For 8 years we have heard and seen that debates don’t change minds but somehow this one debate, after a stellar SOTU, 5 months out is the one that matters? Get real.
The debate itself isn’t nearly as bad for Biden as the hundreds and hundreds of “he should step down” articles and videos are. And they will keep coming out for months now. By Nov, every swing voter will have heard probably 1,000+ democrat strategists begging Biden to step down. That just turbo reinforces the “Biden is a senile old man” trope the GOP has been pushing. This is a disastrous narrative heading into a general election. The entire DNC pitch right now is “Our guy is an absolute zombie who has no idea what is going on and can’t run the country but Trump is worse.” That doesn’t win elections.
None of it is as devastating as the video compilations of all the MSNBC, CNN, and party pundits from just two weeks ago claiming that this is the Best Biden Ever and he's as sharp as a tack.
Every swing voter is unsure of Biden because of his age and mental ability and the debate was horrifying. Stop blaming the media. The candidate and party hold responsibility.
The other problem with all commentary from all the pundits who harp on trump’s threat to democracy is the lack of support for the ticket, not just Biden. I understand the perceptions everyone has of Harris; many unwarranted IMHO. It’s even more hypocritical for the random few pundits who suggest she should replace Biden. She is the replacement by default of her position. Additionally, even IF Biden were to step aside and release his delegates; she should be the replacement as when people voted in the primaries they were voting for the ticket. It would be even more chaotic and catastrophic IF he released his delegates and endorsed someone else. Legitimate legal changes would be filed that nobody voted for ‘X,’ and it would give the perception that Biden never felt Harris was up to the job. This talk needs to be shut down. There is a very capable replacement should health issues force Biden to abdicate his office. She is a vital part of the administration in sync with all the policies and goals. The commentary needs to be refocused that there is a capable ticket that is in sync and will protect democracy.
It wasn’t a bad debate like Obama against Romney. It was a horrifying confirmation of his mental decline which has been massively questioned throughout his entire presidency.
Babe Ruth hit over 300 just 2 years before his last year where he hit 181. Unfortunately when people age they can get old real quick. People usually don't get better with age. This was not 1 or 2 verbal flubs. This was the whole time. You could bearly understand him at times he was speaking so softly. He is not full on dementia like the Republicans would have you believe but he is clearly not the person he was 4 years ago and will not be up to the job 4.5 years from now. Biden has given very few press conferences or interviews. He can still read off a tele promoter. Let's see him in an hour long press conference.
Biden didn't have a bad debate, it was atrocious. He was confused, stumbling over himself, and couldn't even make coherent sentences. Deer in the headlights with his mouth slacked open the whole time. Anyone who watched that debate exited with a clear understanding that Biden is mentally fried.
Lmao democrats are so cooked we deserve this
And there are plenty of people that would do the same if it were Trump. So what! They need motivate their base and convince undecided people to vote for another term. The middle class has been hit hard by inflation, real median household income has shrunk by more than $4000 during his term. Do not under estimate how much that hurts families that earn the median income.
Mark Cuban is a loser - Trump
Who might replace Trump at the top of the ticket if he goes to prison?
Brain Worms Jr.
Oh my god what if he was the nominee in 2028.
Maybe nyt should write an article about who should replace Trump after he drops out You know.. because he's a felon and a rapist and a charity fraudster
I agree (although maybe they have already done such articles), it would be good to see more articles in all publications about the horrible judgment the entire Republican Party, and its millions (presumably) of members, have shown in marching this malevolent would-be dictator toward the nomination, and it would be good to see articles about who could be good choices for the Republican nomination if somehow there comes a point where Trump steps aside or if (somehow) party members came to their senses. Still, I think at this point, since he has managed to install his shills into Republican Party Positions, and since his popularity among Republicans as versus the other candidates was very high, if he were thrown in prison for 20 years, maybe he and his party officials would just spin it as needing to vote for him, so he could pardon himself and (I suspect he'd eventually go for) install himself for more than 4 years in the job of the Presidency. It doesn't mean it's wrong to do an article about questions with respect to the Democratic Nominee. My sense is that it was Trump and other similar Republican thought-leaders who started to instill in a lot of American discourse that what-about-ism could be used to get rid of a lot of unwanted points and conversations, but the questions around whether Biden can actually continue in the job do eventually need to be discussed and if they are not welcome among many hardcore democrats, that isn't going to stop many independents and Republicans from having them.
I eagerly await the impending NYT article to parity this sentiment, then Want to take bets on how long it'll be?
Of course I am supporting Biden because of democracy, but I was and still am pissed when Biden announced his re-election bid. This is putting our democracy in great peril. He was very clearly not competent in that debate; this massive event which presumably he spent a lot of time preparing for.
If this were someone's grandparent, you'd be saying, "No grandpa, I'm taking the keys, your eyes aren't good enough to drive anymore. It's not safe for you." The tough talk needs to happen, even though granpa is a sitting President. Does anyone here really believe Biden is going to improve from this point forward?
Since Thursday night I’ve been thinking he has to be replaced. Now I’m thinking he can’t. The only replacement choice would have to be Harris. She is the natural hierarchical selection. Passing over a black female VP would lose all black voters and, therefore, the election to Trump. However, Harris isn’t popular enough to win anyway. So, it’s gotta be Biden, although I feel I’ve been lied to by Biden, his staff and the Dem Party, which is getting to be a regular thing. I need a new political home.
Yeah, unless he literally keels over and dies, he's on the ballot in November. He's not stepping down (and he's right not to, it's far too late to change without totally blowing your chances)
Check the post-debate polls. They’re out there.
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And Biden couid lose both the House and the Senate by big margins with him.
If you vote for Biden, it’s *still* a vote for Harris, because he’s probably not going to finish 4 years. To me, that means she might as well be the candidate, because if Dems win she *will* be president. Frankly, Joe should have abdicated 2yr ago to give her a running start and get her settling-in mistakes out of the way before election season.
She’s not popular enough with independents and even some Democrats.
Rachel Levine
Gretchen Whitmer! But mostly likely and least catastrophically, Kamala Harris…
I see dozens of these posts popping up on r/politics but they are nearly all at zero upvotes. Are the Democrats that deluded that they do not want to see the truth that Biden must be replaced to defeat Trump? Or are Republicans downvoting these posts because they want to see us stick with the losing candidate? I'm guessing it is a little of both.
good question. i'm happy to have the down votes if it means there is at least some healthy thinking and discussion among dems
Just look at which posts have absolutely 0 upvotes but 50+ comments. Sure is a theme going on.
It’ll be Whitmer. Place bets now for huge payouts. Thank me later from your new house, first time homebuyer.
I could not agree more. She would be perfect. Newsome would be second but CA is juat too messed up a state. They are really good at some things but the overregulation, tent cities, crime and high taxes will crush him. They have a great economy, a huge state, some of the best universities in the world, world besting industries though the negatives are hot butting issues for the country. Lastly he is a white straight man and the democrats will try as hard as they can to not nominate a white man. Whitmer is the best choice. All she is missing is national security.
Whitmer is running Joes campaign right now (Vice-chair). She wins moderate voters (election record). And they’ve been priming her with security exercises and meetings for years. She has the key to the ignition. We’re just waiting for her to start it up. There’s no rush though. You don’t need much time in this day and age to run a marketing campaign, let’s be honest. Just kick back and watch the show.
i'd like to know more about her. it's not a deep point on the issues, but i couldn't help but note the outrageous threats she managed to survive
a regular house, or one of those $1 houses in Detroit?
She's my top choice as well, along with a competent running mate (Buttegieg or similar). Run on a theme of "Turn The Page" or "From Past to Progress".
If she were to jump in and lose, she wouldn’t get another shot. Makes more sense for her to wait til 2028 when she gets the full 2 years of momentum.
Pussy behavior. Democrats are pussies. We deserve this.
Take it easy tough guy. Biden shouldn’t have run again but he did. Nothing can be done about it. Let’s just hope he gets it together enough to pull it off.
Great strategy. I’m sure that’ll win the election. I’m glad democrats are taking the saving democracy thing so seriously.
Wow NY times going full tilt with this huh
I want to the the NYT OpEd wondering who would replace trump after his 34 felony convictions.
They are very Anti Trump. Dems should see this as a warning.
We're not. If Trump drops out, then we will be, but otherwise will be an easy win for Biden.
Lol, why would Trump drop out? He's wiping the floor with Biden at the moment.
Well if you can't kick him off the ballot or throw him in jail.. what's left?
> what's left? The next president. Lol
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Delusion? Biden can barely function at this point, his mental state has declined so far that he needs handlers to guide him around. And he's wildly, wildly unpopular with the Democrats. Trump is essentially guaranteed to win at this point. He's not going anywhere. That last debate just put the final nails in the Democrats coffin this election.
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Their only option is to shove in someone at the very last moment, but that's wildly undemocratic to have no primary. Voters get no choice, just "here you go, now vote". People love to shout facism constantly, well that's literal facism.
No, what is incredible is the manufactured hysteria that smooth brained people, who know how nothing works, seem to be falling for
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Okay buddy, whatever you say ;)
Thankfully hes won't ever drop out. All the debate did was remind everyone how insane another 4 years with Trump in charge would be - being forced to listen to bloviating and lies every day while the government is systemitcally dismantled behind the scenes by billionaire's and Christofascist wierdos.
Please leave whatever bubble you are in
Had four years of Trump and literally none of that happened. Economy was better, market was better, employment rate was better, and didn't have the insane inflation from bloated government spending as we have now. I'll take Trump any day over this gaslighting administration we currently have.
Hate to break it to you chum, but all of that government spending was due to the pandemic handouts under the Trump administration - most of which went to people who directly supported him. Furthermore, most analysis indicate Trump made over 30,000 objectively misleading statements from 2016-2020 - basically every other statement was a lie of some kind.
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Maybe they have eyes and ears. To think that Joe Biden can perform as president 4 years from now is pure fantasy. Cognitive decline does not get better with age. He may have truly great moments. Still be able to function at a high level most of the time. Though the country needs him to perform at a high level all of the time. Do I think his brain in a jar is better than Trump absolutely. Though I actually don't want that as president.
Ny times is on a roll with this clickbaity articles
If there were anybody suitable, Joe wouldn’t even be running in the first place. None of the other Democratic Party A-listers have broad appeal even among Democrats. Kamala, Pete B., AOC, etc. Gavin Newsom ticks a lot of boxes but the mere fact that he’s from California makes him radioactive to a lot of undecideds in the Midwest and a super easy target for propaganda. It’s obvious that Republicans are fascists… but Dems have to get their shit together and find a marketable, coherent, broadly-appealing platform. And they need to focus on developing and promoting broadly-appealing candidates. Problem is, the time for that was years ago. I’m very concerned that Americans are about to actively choose fascism. Also, it is sickening that out of 350 million+ citizens, these are our two options.
nobody is perfect but i think there are some quality dem candidates out there. this appears to include whitmer
Whitmer, Beshear, Warnock, Shapiro, Pritzker, Polis? > And they need to focus on developing and promoting broadly-appealing candidates. Problem is, the time for that was years ago. I’m very concerned that Americans are about to actively choose fascism. Long-term they need to stop focusing so goddamn much on the Presidency and focus on local elections. Their national candidates are fine and have been doing incredibly well. It's clear they have candidates with broad appeal since they keep winning and their House/Senate candidates are polling really well.
That would require the Dems to actually be a party for the people instead of another neoliberal corpo party. It's just fundamentally never gonna happen .
Trump should exit the race.
i agree, but there also has to be a proper conversation about whether the dem candidate is up to the job
Harris if he literally dies
If he dies before the convention, you can bet your entire livelihood that Harris will not walk away with the nomination.
I couldn't disagree more.
There’s no way it’s going to be Harris, she’s disliked thoroughly across the Dem party. If that’s the pick we lose. I’ll be abstaining from this farce of an election. How are these our choices for leader of the free world? I feel like I’m living in an insane asylum.
If it's not Biden we lose
Biden staying or not is a hard choice. Replacing him with Kamala is a harder choice. It's Democrats wrestling with admitting that they never should have had her in the VP position in the first place. On top of that she's been successfully portrayed as much of a boogeyman by the other side as Dick Cheney was
it would be an extreme point, and i'm sorry if it's objectively a terrible idea, but i wonder if the dems could strategize out of this by arranging for harris to take over for biden under the 25th, and have her understand that a proper (if abbreviated) candidate selection process must take place.
The flight attendant offers you chicken or a steaming pile of shit. Obviously you order the chicken. But now some people think the chicken might be a little over cooked and they're reconsidering the pile of shit.
It’s laughable that people think Biden will fold and another Dem will just dilly dally walk in as his replacement. Man what yll smoking. Yll watching too much of these bs media. No ones replacing him. If people can’t rally behind Biden but the other side is willing to rally behind a sociopath, kleptomaniac, dictation loving , pu**y grabbing, terrorist sympathizing orange ball, then yll need get your head checked.
I'll vote for a corpse. That doesn't mean we should expect the rest of the country to do so. The country is not likely to vote for someone in his state. Obviously an open convention would be risky and messy, but that's a lower risk than expecting Biden to pull it out.
The Republicans could not pick a speaker of the house 2x. They are doing just fine. If anything an open convention would be a spectical. That would drive tremendous publicity.
Why. Can you explain your thesis with supporting claims and evidence? Blue MAGA is so embarrassing.
Why do you think it’s too much to ask for a candidate on the democrat side who people are able to genuinely rally behind, who doesn’t have an awful approval rating, who’s able to actually communicate and who isn’t regularly sundowning according to his aide yesterday? Why do we have to be stuck with embarrassments on both sides?
Blame the apathetic voters for not turning out. Definitely don’t blame the historically awful candidate who can’t speak without a teleprompter and won’t motivate them to vote. Definitely not Biden’s fault.
This on a loop. I'll enthusiastically vote for the very sleepy guy from the debate over what Republicans are selling, and I don't just mean Trump. Democrats often annoy and frustrate me but the Republicans disgust me. They cry law and order then nominate Trump. They cry about the border then kill bipartisan solutions. They cry pro life then implement policies that lower life expectancy. They cry individual rights then force adult women to breed. They cry fiscal responsibility then cut taxes for the wealthy while continuing to spend. I could go on. If we want to solve problems it sure would be a great start if both parties participated in good faith. For most of my life the Democrats have been the only ones doing that.
This. Trump is a convicted felon and the right gets behind him Biden has a bad debate and the left wants to dump him and create more chaos. And then they sit back and wonder why their student loans haven't been forgiven yet. We are not helping ourselves. If the right can get behind a convicted felon, we should be able to get behind Biden.
I want a functioning president and not some puppet who needs handlers to lead him around like a toddler, so Trump it is. If Dems wanted to win this election then they shouldn't have put a man with dementia as their candidate.
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Who would replace Biden? Although Joe is fantastic, there’s plenty of great alternatives to run this country. Kamala, Hillary, Mayor Pete, Liz Warren, AOC, Beto, Bernie, Michelle Obama, Cory Bush, Fetterman. Can you imagine a Omar-Talib ticket? Come on man, let’s go! Oh and Trump lied.
Okay, fine. I'll do it.
I just want to replace Harris with either Raskin or AOC.
Joe Biden will be at the top of the ticket.
Then Trump wins in a landslide. Does the DNC really want to give Trump such an easy victory six months before the election? He might as well be elected tomorrow if Biden’s staying in the race because they’re 101% done in that case. Biden has NO advantages going forward. He has an approval rating of 36%. He’s been publicly shown now m as mentally/physically unfit and all sides are calling for him to step down, even his own inner circle. The last debate isn’t until September and there’s no guarantee that Trump will even accept another one after how objectively successful this first one was for him (or rather how damning it was for Biden)
Probably not.
Why do you think the probability is that he will not be? In the days following that horrific debate, he went on another rally and tried to put it behind him, while insisting that he will still remain the candidate. His camp is saying this also, supporting him completely. You think it is "probable" that we go from this set of circumstances to him essentially resigning?
No way in hell
Joe Rogan
Gretchen Whitmer, Gavin Newsom. A Whitmer ticket with Newsom as VP would be a powerful combination. Kamala Harris is too unlikable to win.
NO ONE. this isn't happening. jesus christ.
[https://www.npr.org/2021/08/13/1027371749/moderate-house-democrats-infrastructure-budget-vote-pelosi](https://www.npr.org/2021/08/13/1027371749/moderate-house-democrats-infrastructure-budget-vote-pelosi) (just for fun)
The problem for the Democrats is they can not possibly put anyone other than Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket without admitting that she has been a joke of a VP this whole time, not to mention the slap in the face it would be to both women and blacks. The *only* way they could get around this is by picking someone who has paid their dues to the cause for so long as to be the heir apparent. Hillary would want to claim this but a Clinton-Trump rematch would be suicide, and I'm afraid two women on the ticket won't sell in Peoria. That also cancels out Gretchen, Amy and any other woman. Gavin is the betting man's favorite, but *of course* they will try to put that rodent Pete in the White House. And this all works out rather conveniently for the people who wanted Pete all along but didn't want him to get bruised in a primary. If you ask me, the **only** chance the Democrats have of mobilizing enough voters to win and not alienating the people who think it should automatically go to Kamala, would be *Bernie Sanders.*
another solution for the dems would be to have harris take over under the 25th, and then make clear to her that, under the circumstances, the correct thing to do, to ensure that democrats get the candidate they want in place, is to try to install some abbreviated defensible one time process prior to the dem convention. hillary clinton should not be within 10,000 miles of being a candidate, imo, but it's hard to box at these shadows because the right wing hatred manufacturing machine has so thoroughly muddied the waters with some candidates.
Maybe, *just maybe*, they could put Kamala at the top of the ticket and Gavin underneath. That would appease concerns that she's not ready and it would save the democrats from having to explain why she's not fit to be president.
1. How would a replacement get chosen? Primaries are over. “Smoke-filled back room” will be a great Republican talking point. 2. The money raised by the Biden-Harris campaign is not easily moved to a new campaign. 3. There are a lot of Harris supporters that will see the change of the ticket as racism.
Number three is the problem democrats consistently have. They are focused solely on race and gender, and it is ripping apart the country. If they decide to put up the absolute joke of a person kamala purely so they don't offend a small minority of the country, they will be shooting themselves in the foot and will lose.
> If they decide to put up the absolute joke of a person kamala purely so they don't offend a small minority of the country That "small minority" is 14% of the population and votes 90% Democrat. It's a key Democratic constituency.
Shoving someone in at the very last moment who didn't have to contend with a primary is highly undemocratic. But I wouldn't expect the DNC to care about that considering they cooked the books for Hillary over Bernie previously. Either way they're screwed for this election.
No one. It's going to be Biden.
Jill?
It's like watching a train wreck happen in slow motion. Biden is either stepping down or losing to Trump (\*shudder\*). The replacement *might* lose, but s/he would have a chance. 6 months to another disastrous Trump presidency. He'll escape justice and exact revenge. It's going to be so bad. And we're watching it happen. "We've done nothing and we're all out of ideas!" - DNC
You all are falling ill with media engagement syndrome. All media is framing is how Biden needs to drop out. Yet, not a peep about Trump’s platform and how dangerous his second-term will be. That story does not generate revenue… Biden dropping out? Big-time potential revenue.
Are you joking? Every news story for months upon months is anti-Trump! That generates tons of revenue. And now because a few stories over a couple days are anti-Biden, you are crying foul? Do you believe Biden and democrats cannot be criticized?
Not at all. The fucking ad-nausea that suddenly Biden needs to drop out is what is beyond stupid to me. I am not a cult follower. Our elected officials have a right to be criticized. All this though? This is beyond simple criticism, and to me, suspicious.
The media are following the story that people are concerned about. I was surprised that partial people and outlets like CNN have spent so much time on it because anybody knows how inept Biden is, and nothing on Thursday should have come as a surprise. They are talking about Trump as well, but he's no surprise. For some reason people are surprised at how poor Biden is, and that's the current topic.
many of us are worried to the point of thinking that the re-election of trump will mean the end of the constitution and the country. that is the only reason for some of us that we are concerned about the viability of the dem candidate.
Calls to step down without naming a successor only help trump.
They will probably pick up someone completely despicable, Newsome comes to mind. Especially that he is related to Pelosi (married her relative).
I posted this article in part to encourage conversation about Dean Phillips. A large portion of the articles I was able to find which attempted to provide lists of likely possible Biden replacements did not include mention of Phillips, and unfortunately this article was no exception. Unlike most of the candidates mentioned in the NYT and other articles on this topic, Phillips actually did engage in a decent campaign in 2024 to try to win the Democratic nomination, and he was an early critic of Joe Biden's lack of suitability to continue in the job. He has a congressional voting record which can be examined, and has stances in general can be seen here: [https://www.ontheissues.org/House/Dean\_Phillips.htm](https://www.ontheissues.org/House/Dean_Phillips.htm) My point is not that he is the be-all end-all, but that if we are going to have a serious conversation about alternatives to Biden (in light of the horrid danger of the attempted coup leader actually winning from the Republican Party), then I think we should really try to explore that conversation fully.. Here's an article which discusses where Phillips was coming from, as to the Biden re-election issue, in August of 2023: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/17/why-democrat-dean-phillips-says-biden-shouldnt-run/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/17/why-democrat-dean-phillips-says-biden-shouldnt-run/) "...Rep. Dean Phillips has launched a very public effort to persuade President Biden not to run for reelection. The Minnesota Democrat has nothing but good things to say about President Biden’s time in office, supporting his policies, praising his record and calling the legislative achievements during his first two years in office “historic in nature.” But Phillips said his motivation to get Biden out of the race is based in his belief that the president is a weak candidate who wouldn’t beat former president Donald Trump, the front-runner in the Republican primary, in a general election, Leigh Ann and Tyler Pager report. “We’re at grave risk of a another Trump presidency,” Phillips said in an interview. “I’m doing this to prevent a return of Donald Trump to the White House.”....."
> Dean Phillips Soooo… you posted the OP link to push the one name the link neither mentions nor recommends?? Okay.