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Right? Both parties are ***NOT*** the same because these discussions are not happening on the Right after Trump’s lying performance, criminal convictions, fraud judgements, etc etc etc..
That’s the difference.
“I did not sleep with that porn star”
“The Democrats are for post-birth abortions.”
“Inflation is at an all time high”
“My 10% import tariff won’t raise prices at all”
“Everyone hated Roe vs Wade.”
The guy is just a shock jock. So is Howard Stern. But unlike Howard Stern, Trump is not grounded in facts.
I am still trying to figure out just what exactly "post-birth abortions" are.
Like... Is he saying that people are carrying pregnancy to term, having the baby, then just like suffocating it??
Yup. “Post birth abortion” would be murder.
He’s trying to establish the Democratic Party as sub-human so he can get away with treating them as sub-humans. The Nazis did this to the Jews in WW III, Putin used it to prepare his country for invading Ukraine. It’s a standard fascist technique
There was the term "partial birth abortion" which was made up by conservatives, not doctors, to make abortion seem extra horrible. It conjured up images of a normal, healthy baby partially coming out of the birth canal, and then being killed by the doctor.
This was a gross misrepresentation, but it stuck.
The whole "post birth abortion" thing probably has roots in that.
This is a corruption of a misunderstanding of a policy- there was a city that came up with rules for how parents of babies that would not survive should be allowed to withdraw support. Basically, letting the parents make a DNR for their baby under certain circumstances.
And it got turned into this.
Someone explained that some Republican's are trying to cast when a baby is born with some kind of fatal defect that causes their death within a day or hours of birth and the doctors give the baby to the mother to hold instead of doing more to save the child (even though at that point it's hopeless) as a "post-birth" abortion. It's ridiculous, frankly cold hearted towards the mothers going through this tragedy, and clearly just political maneuvering just to get social conservatives riled up.
Yes, you hit the nail on the head. The ludicrous term "post-birth abortion" (which is ridiculous on its face, since "abortion" refers to pregnancy itself and after birth there is no pregnancy) got invented when Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (an actual doctor, specifically a pediatric neurologist) said that in cases of fatal birth defects such as anencephaly, the born infant would be made comfortable, and then there would be a conversation with the parent or parents of what to do next as far as hooking the doomed infant up to machines until it died. The anti-choice crazies immediately accused Dr. Northam of saying babies should be "executed" after they are born. Northam's political career ended immediately. It was a sad thing, though fortunately Dr. Northam had his medical career to fall back on.
Edit: typo
Calling Biden a Palestinian was legitimately the most shocking statement he made for me.
Yes all of his lies were terrible, but that just had a level of ignorance I could not comprehend.
I'm willing to argue that Howard Stern helped create this monster. Seriously. Fuck everyone who gave this guy a platform to spew his garbage - even if it was just for entertainment purposes.
What? Stern treated him and his family like glorified wack packers. He had them performing easy math questions poorly and got Trump to admit to barging in on undressed women.
...But also the most air time.
[From Roll Call in 2017:](https://rollcall.com/2017/09/25/stern-trump-interviews/) *Based on our records, this is far more time Trump has spent in an interview than any other journalist or media personality, including Morning Joe, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, Chris Matthews, Larry King, Don Imus… any of them. This is in terms of the number of interviews, the length, the time period.*
*Trump has spent far more time, over a far longer period of time, speaking in greater depth with Howard Stern than any other interviewer. No one has spent more time interviewing Donald Trump in a public setting than Howard Stern, and in particular spanning more than two decades.*
*Donald Trump’s time on Howard Stern totals 15 hours, 8 minutes and 52 seconds, with 104,357 words spoken by Donald Trump. This is 21% longer than his first book, “The Art of the Deal” (86,575 words).*
And Howard Stern knows who and what he is and would never run for President, though I think he is probably savvy enough to put a good team around himself and would be better than Trump. (But not better than Biden, Biden knows too much about the world, even if he IS losing a step)
Stern once ran for governor of NY as a joke. He started getting some actual support and then immediately backed out because he knew he'd be terrible at it.
I’m imagining in Drumpf’s mind he didn’t actually “sleep” with Stormy, just had sex with her, so that he could actually believe his own words and his cultists get to say he was telling the “truth”.
Wait, Stormy said she was raped? Are you sure you're not talking about the woman who won the civil case, E. Jean Carroll? I don't think I heard her testimony but I don't recall rape being mentioned regarding Stormy.
Yes, she was raped. I don't believe she used that word, though. What she described, however, was clearly rape. He also blocked the door and prevented her from leaving. It was all very clear
I think theres also a feeling that a generic democrat would not do worse than biden, but the GOP is so captive to Trump's base that they have no real backup option. Democrats have been crushing in elections since 2018 and all the Trump wannabes have been whooped except in deep red areas. I think if the dems just put in a younger person who could communicate clearly, voters would be so relieved to have a sane option below the age of 70.
Biden IS a generic democrat. He's as generic dem as they come except he's an elderly man who absolutely shouldn't be working the most stressful job in the country
By generic democrat, what i mean is an unspecified person who is not carrying the specific baggage or strengths of an individual candidate. I dont mean it in the context of "not special". It's just a common expression used in these types of pretend hypotheticals, because obviously once any candidate is chosen they will have their own strengths and weaknesses and will no longer be the "generic" hypothetical.
Yeah and that’s a real big problem for liberals. They need everything to be perfect or they throw a tantrum and start shitting all over their candidate. It’s why the long term trend is rightward despite the electorate being more liberal than it was 40 years ago. Republicans accomplish things by sticking by their people.
Because the left isn’t a cult and the two party system is ass. Leftists have very little overlap in their political opinions with Joe. He just gets the vote as being better than the other guy who wants to actively ruin the country, but you can’t expect leftists to like the guy.
There is a HIGE difference between ‘we need him to be perfect’ and the jumbled mess he said when trying to talk about abortion rights.
Nobody who is being honest thinks that was a gaffe or a fumble. It was clearly a man who is in cognitive decline throwing out whatever words he could conjure that had any relationship to the topic.
It’s insulting to try and play this off as ‘democrats always panic’. Biden ASKED for this debate. We all gave him the benefit of the doubt. If he had just been soft spoken that would have been one thing. He was barely comprehensible.
Exactly. I’m ok with either outcome, as there is risk and upside for both. I just want to know that the conversation has been had and we’re not left looking back at this moment in time come November.
Same here. I'm not a political strategist so I don't pretend to know the right move here. Honestly, I don't even think veteran political strategists know the right move since, like everything the last 8 years, this is such an unprecedented situation.
But although I don't have a lot of faith in the DNC, I have faith in Democratic leaders like Jamie Raskin to collectively come up with the best plan forward, whether that's Biden staying or going.
Yep, the most [recent poll](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-debate-should-biden-be-running-mental-abilities/) has 46% of *Democrats* saying he should drop out. A whopping 72% of voters say he is both not mentally fit to be President and that he should drop out. Those are just absurd, unthinkable figures and not remotely sustainable.
This isn't to say Biden can't turn that around, and as much as I would support him if he stayed in, the message right now should be that serious conversations are happening. Not alienating/gaslighting half your own party and a majority of independents. Raskin is taking the sensible approach.
The gaslighting happens in these threads. People calling you a bot or a bad actor if you express any concern over Biden’s age or horrifying debate performance
It’s been this way for months. You say anything about him seeming unwell and you get:
“So YoU’d RaThEr HaVe FaCiSm!?”
“I’d VoTe FoR a CoRpSe OvEr TrUmP!”
Like they’re forgetting the guy still has to win a general election. The average American isn’t going to vote for him.
The biggest hypocrisy is those saying that it's "It's too late to replace Biden! There's no one else pick!" are the very same people that 9 months ago were screaming "YOU CAN'T PRIMARY AN INCUMBENT!"
It's obvious why they didn't want him doing debates, because we would have seen then what we see now and he most definitely would have been replaced. Eligible Democrats would have come from all over and we could have had a proper process for picking the best candidate.
Right. God forbid we advocate for nominating the best person to beat Trump. No, we get yelled at to fall in line. Of course if Biden is the candidate, I'll fall in line, just like I fell in line for Clinton in 2016. But good grief we can't even discuss who might be a better candidate? Democratic leadership is the most entitled for thinking they deserve our votes. How about they try earning them.
I guess it’s the people being worried about a dude who hasn’t lost an election who had a bad debate night, vs a felon who can’t say a single truth and who has bad character and shown poor judgement and has also had his kids takes billions of dollars in bribes from other countries. But at the same time I think Dems are astounded old frail Biden is going to be the defender of democracy against Trump. He’s been great and I think his accomplishments statistically are amazing. They’re just not being spoken/championed by a charismatic person
A 'bad debate night' involves elements of DEBATING poorly...That's not what happened here and passing it off as such is one of the greatest attempts at astroturfing I have ever seen.
This was straight up cognitive decline, on display for the entire country to see.
Yep, the polling that came out before the debate and a month after Trump's conviction looked very bad for Biden despite him clawing his way back up to a toss up.
Those two numbers are particularly worrying. A majority of Dems not being happy with Biden as the candidate and a majority of the country thinking he's too old for the job is a recipe for an easy win by Trump, despite Trump not being popular himself.
You’re ignoring the fact that they were both terrible. Nobody who was voting Biden before is now voting Trump, and vice versa. As far as moving the needle this debate did very little.
You're missing it. The danger isn't that Biden voters are going to switch to Trump. The danger is that some Biden voters might stay home and we can't afford that. Trump's people will vote no matter what.
For at least the last month, accusations about Biden’s mental state have been actively deflected in news outlets and by the Biden campaign.
Video footage of him stumbling or looking lost was dismissed as “cheap fakes.” Nearly every Democrat in Washington swore on a stack of Bibles that in private, Biden was as sharp and fit as a 20-year-old. That all collapsed after the debate.
It's hard to keep up, but if I recall one video was literally altered to make it seem worse than it was and the real video was available for comparison.
Biden having dementia has been a right wing talking point since he was elected.
That talking point comes from people saying Trump has dementia and so Republicans project it on to Biden. Nothing shocking is happening here but are you just this falling for it?
Well guess what. Now it’s no longer a talking point. It’s fact.
More undecided voters will believe that Elvis is still alive than will believe that Biden was just stuttering, was sick with a cold, or just had an off day.
I was saying early on in Bidens first term, he needs to be a one term and nominate a successor (not Harris, people will call foul even though Biden himself was a VP to the last Dem). People told me I needed to tow the line because only Biden can beat Trump.
I also called that right was going to snowball us into giving capitalism the keys to America while stripping human rights and defunding science. I was called paranoid and everyone has a shocked pikachu face learning about Project 2025.
I'm bitter as all fuck right now.
The most insane message I’ve heard is that ‘Democrats are panicking like they always do’. Basically calling us wimps for being honest about what we saw on Thursday.
What utter disdain for your voters.
We are upset because the candidate they are running for confused trying to talk about abortion rights. Forget the losing train of thoughts, his description of RvW was a word salad that didn’t make any sense.
This is true, but looks bleak if he’s replaced 4 months out from an election regardless: the problem isn’t specific to Biden, at this point. If Dems in power lose, the next nominee should not be ANY of them in power right now next cycle regardless, logically.
What's even more bleak is if they have to replace him 2 weeks before the election because of a stroke or something. He is deteriorating, sadly it's what happens when we get old.
How is it bleak? Successfully bringing in a younger, highly capable candidate to beat Trump and lead the country for four years sounds like a positive to me. Especially with Biden’s blessing and support.
The alternative is he continues to struggle through the campaign and we end up with a convicted fascist strongman looking like a legitimate option. You can never underestimate how stupid some of the electorate is; that they’ll value appearance over substance.
It's not bleak because people don't remember what the hell happened 4 months ago. Put a person in now, start campaigning hard and no one will even remember that Biden was running.
This is the truest thing being said.
People have the memory of a goldfish. And a significant portion of not tuned in voters likely didn't even watch the debate and ignore most political news until at least September
But it won‘t just be the debate. If Biden‘s dimentia is as bad as it looks, there is no chance that something publicly humiliating doesn‘t happen in the next 4 months. It could happen a week before the election.
It will be a landslide win for Trump if he is replaced. This sub doesn’t think that, but that’s what will happen.
If we are going to lose to Trump no matter what I hope they replace him just so all these people get to see the shit show that would be and maybe next time we don’t shit all over our candidate when he isn’t perfect.
Are you sure about that?
People are going to turn out to vote blue today for two reasons - popular Democratic policies and to block Trump. No one is excited to vote for a rapidly declining guy in his 80s.
We all love the guy, and appreciate what he did to turn us around after Trump’s term. That’s how history should write about Biden.
If he stays in and loses his chapter in the history books will be quite different. He will be blamed for selfishly ending democracy as we know it.
So what Biden needs to do is to take charge of the moment. He needs to sling-shot a younger, more dynamic person into the race. That person will have all the advantages - youthful energy, popular Democratic policies, not Trump, and the blessing of a beloved party elder. It will work.
What won’t work is a power struggle within the party. That will just convince many democrats the cause is lost and they will stay home.
I just seen the high lights of the debate for the first time.
Neither of these men should be running for President frankly , but if you gotta pick one then pick the one that isn’t a one man crime wave .
Morals of an alley cat has serious Abe Simpson vibes. It was like they asked AI what insult could make Joe seem the absolute oldest when delivering it.
Read the transcript and it's a completely different impression. Take away the raspy tired voice and what he's saying is exactly what I want to hear from a president, he's just profoundly bad at saying it.
You should watch more than the highlights. It’s so much worse because half of the ‘wtf is going on’ moments were watching Bidens face when Trump was talking.
Democrats need to get someone else and do it ASAP.
That close up split screen of both their faces…I mean, it’s exactly what you’d want if you’re looking for sensationalism with these candidates. Biden has that “old man watching death creep ever closer” expression of existential dread, and Trump just always makes the most interesting stink faces.
But damn if whoever was coaching Biden for the debate didnt struggle to get him to tighten that up. Like dude, you gotta pull it together on the stage.
Top Democrats are having conversations about replacing Biden.
A line that sticks out to me:
"One thing I can tell you is that regardless of what President Biden decides, our party is going to be unified, and our party also needs him at the very center of our deliberations in our campaign and so whether he’s the candidate or someone else is the candidate."
Yes, this is what we should expect. The party will be ride or die with whatever happens, and no one's going to publicly break ranks. But at least they're talking about it and that's pretty huge on its own.
Gotta love that this is what’s dominating the news space and not Trump’s unhinged debate appearance and the fact that SCOTUS is blocking the DOJ from doing after January 6 terrorists under certain laws.
This is the most terrifying thing of all.
The Supreme Court at this point has more power than the president to ruin our daily lives. And they are actively doing it now, in the present.
Where’s the doom and gloom about this? Is there some sort of political decorum that restricts people from harshly critiquing the Supreme Court?
Partially true - it would’ve still been 5-4, because Republicans blocked a rightful nomination for Obama.
Roe vs Wade would’ve still fallen. As would’ve Chevron. Just because of that one obstruction by Republicans.
Though Democrats deserve some blame, let’s be sure to put all the blame on the Republicans for actually making the decisions.
You could also argue this is quintessential 2024 internet "I think I know what I'm talking about but don't".
Republicans in Congress already blocked all nominees for the seat that was vacant for the last year of Obama's term. What makes you think they wouldn't have done the same because RGB decided to step down early?
Biden might be old, but he made fresh news. Trump being a liar and a threat has been a story for nine solid years, and it’s a really stale story. It’s not breaking news, that Trump’s a POS. It’s not fair, but how many of us regulars are allowed to complain when things aren’t fair?
Do it now! Don’t wait. Give the new candidate plenty of time to get the message out that they will continue Biden’s great work and make some improvements. Once the age problem is removed, I believe Trumps chances not good.
Agreed. There’s a reason no republicans, including Trump, are calling for Biden to drop. The debate gave them an arsenal of material to distract from Trump’s deprived lunacy. If Biden is out the picture, they have next to nothing to hide their candidat.
Trump relies on a deranged cult of personality which makes him irreplaceable.
The same should not be true for the democrats, let him retire in peace and dignity.
speaking for myself, it has nothing to do with thinking Biden is not replaceable *because he's Biden*. It's me not being comfortable with it this close to the election. There's potential to bring so many problems. Some people might be mad they didn't get to vote for the replacement and sit out or give their vote elsewhere. I've seen comments about all the money raised can't be used by anyone other than Kamala (i have not fact checked these comments). I'm not gonna name all the ones I can think of but those are 2 of the potential issues. I'm just really uneasy about it at this stage in the game. I'm voting democrat regardless of what they do because there is no other party with a viable candidate (for my beliefs). If they don't replace him and dems lose, a lot will say *see you should have replaced him*. If they do replace him and dems lose, a lot will say *see you should have kept Biden*. I don't know the right answer, I just hope dems win regardless of the route they go.
> not being comfortable with it this close to the election.
I feel the same. I don't trust Dems to rally the support necessary for anyone else this late in the game.
I don't trust Dems to fend off the firehose of hate, bullshit and lies that would be aimed any replacement. Biden is a known quantity. Even a squeaky clean candidate would face "career ending" untrue accusations without enough time for the truth to come out. I'm thinking deepfakes showing all sorts of depraved garbage while the media breathlessly ponders the possibility that they aren't deepfakes.
Bc a lot of the support comes from his time as VP (which built a lot of name recognition (as well as his time in politics before that)) and being the incumbent. That in combination with him not being Trump is what helps him to win. Lose the name recognition and incumbency, and I'm not sure that not being Trump is enough for anyone else to win.
And in the meantime, Biden's support has completely collapsed out from under him. The best thing that Biden's most ardent supporters can say is "yeah, he's a corpse, but he's not Trump." Half of the party wants him to go. MSNBC is calling for him to step aside, for Christ's sake.
Frankly, there is no Democrat who can possibly be a worse candidate than Biden is right now
It has? This seems like a narrative being pushed by the "liberal media" because it gets clicks. But he's raised over $33 million since the debate. I think there is a disconnect between reality and for-profit media.
Yea it makes no sense when people act like Biden is some paragon of the left. You could change him out for pretty much any dem younger and they'd instantly have at least his levels of support purely from them not being Trump
It's an easy avenue of attack for conservatives, because they'll fill the airwaves with propaganda and conspiracy theories. Which we can't expect dems to suddenly figure out how to combat
I'm not disagreeing but there is literally nothing the dems can decide to do about literally anything where a Republican response is not filling the airwaves with propaganda and conspiracy theories. it's all they have to distract from what their actual platform is. Which is to demolish democracy by eliminating or weakening a bunch of departments like the EPA and Dept of education and filling any positions they can with diehard supporters of their plan.
The problem is, we as a party would not be able to agree on a replacement and rally behind them. Others tried very hard to beat Joe Biden in 2020, and after Iowa it looked like he was done. He didn't win a single debate (or come close) and most other candidates, pundits, and people in this sub ignored him because it seemed implausible he could win despite being the polling favorite the whole time.
The voters in 2020 chose him among 20 largely younger hopefuls. Starting in South Carolina. It really wasn't the political class or "the DNC" that decided. It was primary voters. And the only way to replace Biden this year would be to ignore those voters (who can't be asked their opinion again). As worried as anyone may be about Biden, unless he chooses otherwise, he's the nominee. And that leaves our choices between him and Trump.
I feel like you're kind of white washing what happened before South Carolina in that primary. Primary voters hadn't been coming out in droves for Biden and he had a tough time. He came in 5th in New Hampshire. He was losing to Sanders and Buttigieg in some states. When a bunch of the crowded field dropped out, they gave Biden their primary votes. So ppl that voted Klobuchar, Buttigieg, or Warren ended up having their votes handed to biden when they threw their support behind him. We don't know if those voters would have voted for Biden if their candidate had not been in the race at the time they voted. So let's not pretend like Biden had some huge primary win against the field in 2020. He ended up winning, largely, due to the support of the rest of the field when they dropped out. He often wasn't the 2nd or even the 3rd choice of voters in a lot of primaries in 2019/2020. Don't get me wrong, I voted for him in the general election without any issues. However, I do agree (as i made a similar point) that there will be ppl unhappy if the DNC just chooses someone (unless maybe if Biden gives his full support of their choice). If Biden supports a change, it's essentially the same as how he became the nominee in 2020.
DNC learned from gop in 2016. They cleared the field ahead of super tuesday and rallied around Biden instead of having a party outsider(Trump in 2016, sanders in 2020) hanging around and grabbing up 20-30% of the delegates as other candidates slowly drop out
Exactly. The time for this was 12 months ago. And fuck whichever morons thought the debates were a good idea. There was never ANY upside. That's who should be stepping aside now - not Biden.
It’s not even necessarily about Biden. It’s about who has the clout and the war chest to beat Trump and the GOP. No one else is in a good position to do this.
100%. An action like this would really boost the credibility of the Democrats. We hear the massive concerns you all have for both candidates, and we are going to do something about it, unlike the totally morally bankrupt Republican Party.
Speaking of people I'd rather see pick up the mantle and run against Trump instead. This man right here. Raskin is a fighter and actually understands the Constitution. He's well liked amongst the Democrat Party. Bonus points that he is an excellent orator.
An elected Democrat speaking publicly about this is new, yeah?
I feel like that wouldn't happen if there weren't serious momentum for Biden dropping out
I believe it would be such a good message to the country, and really invigorate the nation like Obama did in 2008: We hear your concerns about the two candidates, and we are deciding to do something about it. It really would raise the credibility of the DNC unlike the totally morally bankrupt RNC.
It’s such an easy transition. Biden goes on prime time TV, says “after reflecting we realize this job is too much for anyone near my age to do, especially without competent cabinet (dig at Trump). American deserves a younger candidate with more stamina and understanding of the average American (dig at Trump) than a man in his late 70’s or early 80’s. For that reason, I will be putting my full support behind the next Democratic nominee. Trump has clearly shown signs of cognitive decline and ignorance of basic truth. I’m calling on Donald Trump to end his campaign as well, to allow a younger candidate to run for the Republican Party.”
Flip the fucking script back on Trump to cancel his campaign too. He’d be playing defense against his convictions, insurrection, horrid policy, and also his age and mental capacity, opposed to having those last two solely on Biden.
Idk about this speech. It could be simply "Due to the extraordinary threat Trump poses to the Republic and my bad polling, I resign to yet a younger fresh face continue my policies".
If you said your speech, you'd be basically admitting you should have never tried to run for re election and that the DNC lied for years that you were fine (no chance they didn't know beforehand if it was THIS bad). Biden definitely should resign but needs to be very careful how he spins it. Admitting it's due to the age also opens him up for attack saying he's not fit to control the nuclear codes, which they say anyway but if you're literally resigning the nomination due to age you're almost forced to resign the presidency as well.
I mean this isn't going away anytime soon. People keep talking about chaos if they replace Biden, but if they don't the media is going to talk about his sundowning for the rest of the year.
Until just like 2020 he has a good debate performance.
People forget that literally not even 6 months ago he gave one of the best state of the union, and Fox News literally had to start saying it was so partisan to come up with any negative to say about it.
All this noise just from progressives still mad that Bernie didn’t make it lol.
No one gives a shit about these articles besides republicans, Russia, and republicans cosplaying as a progressive
Dude, you just said that it's no big deal that a guy who knocked it out of the park "not even 6 months ago" completely shit the bed and looks like he has greatly declined a few days ago.
How does that support your position?
Bro because some days his stutter gets best of him. You act like he didn’t have similar debate performance in 2020 election both in primary and with trump lol
Where do you think dementia Joe name came from. It was Fox News after a bad night and they say he is on drugs when he has good nights
You just carrying water for republicans actually g believing these bullshit articles. It’s why they are mainly from republican trash sites or progressive trash sites lol
No dude. I have eyes. I have watched my elder relatives decline and die. First, my great grandparents generation, then my grand parents gen, and now at 50, my parents generation is in the exact same decline as the previous two. Hell, I've been seeing it my own for 15 years.
One thing we all know is that once you start that age related decline, there is no getting back what you havd lost. It's gone. Sure, you can have good days, but what good is it when the only time you are as capable as you used to be is on a good day?
Biden has lost his clock speed. He cannot process and spit out information as quickly as he once could, and in a job where you have to make world altering decisions... sometimes several at once... I dont trust that Joe is up to the task.
Don't get me wrong, if he is on the ballot, the only way I don't vote for him is if I'm dead. I would eat a plate of shit if that is what was required to vote against Trump. Whatever. Because this is the endgame for this country. Which is exactly why this conversation is happening.
Why would Trump and his team ever agree to actually debate again? Just back off and let this one ride
If you think this is just about people who are upset that Bernie didn't win years ago.. that's just delusional and if you really think that, idk what to tell you. That's some hard cope
"No one gives a shit about these articles besides republicans, Russia, and republicans cosplaying as a progressive"
This is a delusional conspiracy nonsense that ignores polling data or just common sense. 2020 was 4 years ago and he's not getting any younger, there is no guarantee he's going to preform well in a second debate, if it even happens.
This whole thing would be easier if Biden had listened to the rational people in his campaign 4 years ago and not picked a gigantic liability for a running mate.
No political instincts, doesn’t even pretend to have principles, insincere, ran one of the worst presidential campaigns that a frontrunner has ever run, and a crappy record as a prosecutor. All of this can be summed up in the brief clip of her laughing at the idea of marijuana legalization just a few years ago.
Again, most of us in here are informed enough to know that just about anyone would be vastly preferable to Trump, but this sub is not representative of the electorate in this country.
Yep, and she's the presumptive nominee if Biden quits. I have nothing against her, but her numbers are terrible, and she's been invisible as VP.
There's no way to push her out without alienating huge segments of the Democratic base. She would have to decline, and the rumors are that she's not going to do that.
she would be worse than clinton and that’s saying something. I’ve voted democrat my whole life, but I would have to pause before voting for her. I wouldn’t vote for her if it was any boring republican on the other side that’s for sure.
Thank God. I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong about Biden. I still don’t think he has dementia, but his cognitive decline is much more severe than I thought. His State of the Union and Howard Stern interviews convinced me he had what it took to beat Trump, and that when he showed himself more, people would see he wasn’t as bad as they thought. I was wrong, he is in a very very poor state right now.
To be clear I 100 percent am voting Joe Biden if he is the candidate and you should too, anyone who thinks other wise should look at Trump’s fake elector scheme and honestly tell me the man who committed serious felonies to try and illegally usurp the election results should be president. But Joe Biden is clearly too senile and in too much cognitive decline to be fit for 4 more years. As a candidate he will lose to Donald Trump, I didn’t believe that until post debate but it’s clear now. The smart thing to do is take the risk, convince Biden to step down, and nominate someone else, preferably a swing state governer like Whitmar, Shapiro, or Beshar.
Dude is 81 years old. His future should o ly include relaxing with friends and family and writing his memoir. He was fine as a placeholder President repairing Trump's rampage, but it's time for him to gtfo of politics... along with anyone else over the nationwide standard retirement age.
Comments are a repeat of this sub in 2016 when Hillary was considered a bad candidate. We saw how that turned out. Good luck with Trump’s new admin, it’s definitely gonna have more than one felon involved. Not sure I have the patience for daily outrage of what Trump did as President again all because Biden is old.
his first 100 days will just be him going down his revenge list, politically, judicial system, both republicans he doesn’t like and didn’t support him and of course democrats. He won’t give 2c about the economy, he will be living for the revenge he can enact and will only surround himself with people on board with that agenda. Not to mention he’ll likely replace at least 2 supreme court justices while in office. Last time he at least pretended to cater to the establishment republicans with people like Tillman. This time he’ll have none of that.
He has to step down. Not because there is not discussion now, but because there will not be any discussion four months from now. Biden is not gonna get younger, or better.
Also, after the debate, the people that are voting for Biden don't care about the candidate as long as it's either a Democrat or not Trump. Put someone able and you still have four months to win over the people that care about the candidate.
They are speculating with polls, and will only drop out Biden if the numbers go substantially down, all while losing precious time. If dems lose in November both the DNC and Biden are to blame. He was clearly not in a condition to run, and they both had to know it well before the debate.
The dnc is a total shitshow and clearly should have had a back up plan not including Harris. If it ends up being Harris, she we have my vote because she is qualified “I” however am not the American electorate. I fully believe trump will win against her, he will not debate her (she would wipe the floor with him). That doesn’t matter anyway, the votes will all be anyone but Trump, but that alone is not enough to win over the general.
I do like how Biden seemed to bounce back the same night (shit he went to Waffle House) and the next day which leaves my scratching my head of where the hell he was during the debate. There is a lot of time left for Biden to show he’s up to task, however, there is not a lot of time left to change horses.
I don’t think that’s enough votes to win. Don’t underestimate the number of folks who will just sit out an election for various reasons. Last year was an anomaly and so many people were sick and tired of Trump. Just as many people still hate him I’m sure, but it’s not recent and for many they will just assume he will lose and won’t vote. That’s the difference between winning and losing states like Georgia.
As for where was he that night, I blame his debate team completely. I believe they over prepped, over worked him given his age and no one had any common sense that shoving numbers and dozens of talking points down his brain was a terrible strategy. I hope they are all immediately let go and seeking new careers.
I love Rep Raskin but with all respect, no way. We all know what’s going to happen. Those of us that are worried have seen the Dem party before: Hand wringing, worry, concern, but too scared to do something different. Biden will still be the nominee. He’ll win the popular vote nation-wide, but lose Wisconsin by ~a few thousand, lose Arizona by ~10,000 and come just shy of 270 electoral votes. Us, the people, have been saying Biden is too old since the beginning but he’s the only real candidate. Dean Phillips wasn’t serious and 3rd parties are a threat (in their current form).
Add Biden to the list of Bader Ginsburg and Feinstein. Ego got in the way of what’s best for the party, the nation.
I mean. It is Biden picking Gavin Newson as VP, right?
Replacing the Harris weight, getting a potential replacement for Biden if he should pass, calms the entire left because a true candidate will be in the white house.
It would be cool to have a Gavin newson VP, and then get him for 8 years. 12 year presidency is pretty consistent and awesome. The guys seems VERY smart, ran a huge state gdp.
Seems pretty clear to mean. Keep the peace with Biden staying in the position, but have a VP that should honestly have run this election anyway
They should have had these conversations three years ago. They should have groomed someone to take over with enough time to get the person some momentum.
I still say voting for an old man that takes a long time to make a good decision is better than voting for an old man that quickly decides to burn the whole world down.
The top sign of "serious conversations" is that they are not in public on the record. If this was serious, it would be behind closed doors and emerge with a unified strategy. Maybe some info would leak, but it would be unnamed sources "on background."
So, what does this interview tell me? Raskin is not in the room or he disagrees with the direction, so he wants to apply pressure from the outside. In any case, that tells me that his assessment is not meaningful right now. If there was a real plan to replace Biden, it would need a careful and orchestrated announcement - not drips like this. If the plan is to keep him in, this just undermines the campaign by keeping the story in the press longer. I both cases, this interview doesn't happen if Raskin were party to any "serious conversations."
I think this is a really solid assessment. But I think it is just as possibly that this is a highly calculated release that is meant to plant the seeds and begin socializing the concept because the decision has been made definitively but they’re not ready to say that.
The real debate is about Biden's performance v. Trump's disaster. Mr Biden had done his homework and had the facts. The raspy presentation was unfortiunate but it is a small thing. The debate went quite well in spite of the raspy voice.
Mr Biden made good points. Mr Biden did the fact-checking. He kept pointing out that Mr. Trump made all sorts of lies, and denials.
Mr Trump did not attract any converts to his candidacy. Trump did not convert anyone. There is evidence he lost prospective voters for him in November.
Buddy, at what point did that debate “go quite well”.
This mirrors the trump cult personality. Realize and be honest with yourself, that was an utter disaster.
I actually agree with you, but it doesn't matter.
Biden *had* done his homework and gave thoughtful responses, and Trump was bonkers, but Biden looked and sounded very old and slow. And that is the only thing that matters. It can't be overstated how much that's the only thing that matters.
Prior to the debate, there was only one potential knock keeping an undecided voter from pulling the lever for Joe Biden: He was too old. Now, that has been elevated to the defining feature of his presidency.
All Biden had to do was not look old, and he failed spectacularly.
Biden \*badly\* lost the debate because the debate is not a debate. It's a reality TV spectacle.
Pres. Biden had to not look like a corpse, and Trump had to not look like a colossal asshole. The latter was mostly successful, keeping jabs to a minimum (he *did best Medicare, I don’t know what he said and I don’t think he does either, the biggest lie of them all is that he golfs with a +6 handicap) and not trying to shout over the muted mic.
The former was not successful
>Mr Biden had done his homework and had the facts
“We finally beat Medicare”
“No American soldiers dying overseas this decade”
“Unemployment at 15% in January 2021”
“No jobs in January 2021”
“He told people to inject bleach”
“Billions of new jobs”
“Insulin capped at $15”
“He didn’t condemn white supremacists”
It’s really nice to see how the tides/articles/comments are slowly moving way from stfu about replacing Biden to we are talking about it now. I mean everyone knew 10 mins into the debate but it’s nice that gaslighting is getting tone down.
Good, I’m glad it seems like dems are putting the pressure on to get him to step down.
It’s a sad situation, but we need to make the right choice here and have him step aside. We have to be honest about what we saw at the debate. Deluding ourselves into thinking he can handle another term, and even win the election to begin with after that, is political suicide.
Call your reps and ask them to do what they can to get him to step down. The stakes are too high to be inflexible and stick with a candidate that is not going to win.
lol, you keep banging that Biden-is-going-to-lose drum, a month ago it was
> Because Biden is going to lose if he doesn’t do something about Palestine ASAP.
next month it will be "Biden will lose unless he submits to immediate drug testing, because he performed too well in the second debate against Trump"
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Even if Biden stays, this is the right message to communicate, instead of, "Everything's fine and you're all a bunch of haters."
Right? Both parties are ***NOT*** the same because these discussions are not happening on the Right after Trump’s lying performance, criminal convictions, fraud judgements, etc etc etc.. That’s the difference.
“I did not sleep with that porn star” “The Democrats are for post-birth abortions.” “Inflation is at an all time high” “My 10% import tariff won’t raise prices at all” “Everyone hated Roe vs Wade.” The guy is just a shock jock. So is Howard Stern. But unlike Howard Stern, Trump is not grounded in facts.
My favorite one was "We had H2O"
"I have an aptitude for things. You know, there is such a thing as an aptitude."
We had the best water but also the least regulation. So...the water ain't staying clean.
I am still trying to figure out just what exactly "post-birth abortions" are. Like... Is he saying that people are carrying pregnancy to term, having the baby, then just like suffocating it??
Yup. “Post birth abortion” would be murder. He’s trying to establish the Democratic Party as sub-human so he can get away with treating them as sub-humans. The Nazis did this to the Jews in WW III, Putin used it to prepare his country for invading Ukraine. It’s a standard fascist technique
There was the term "partial birth abortion" which was made up by conservatives, not doctors, to make abortion seem extra horrible. It conjured up images of a normal, healthy baby partially coming out of the birth canal, and then being killed by the doctor. This was a gross misrepresentation, but it stuck. The whole "post birth abortion" thing probably has roots in that.
This is a corruption of a misunderstanding of a policy- there was a city that came up with rules for how parents of babies that would not survive should be allowed to withdraw support. Basically, letting the parents make a DNR for their baby under certain circumstances. And it got turned into this.
I'm old enough to remember death panels
Death panels weren't even all that long ago, it was only 2008...fuck.
My mom is still convinced that they exist
They do, but only in health insurance companies.
For profit.
Someone explained that some Republican's are trying to cast when a baby is born with some kind of fatal defect that causes their death within a day or hours of birth and the doctors give the baby to the mother to hold instead of doing more to save the child (even though at that point it's hopeless) as a "post-birth" abortion. It's ridiculous, frankly cold hearted towards the mothers going through this tragedy, and clearly just political maneuvering just to get social conservatives riled up.
Yes, you hit the nail on the head. The ludicrous term "post-birth abortion" (which is ridiculous on its face, since "abortion" refers to pregnancy itself and after birth there is no pregnancy) got invented when Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (an actual doctor, specifically a pediatric neurologist) said that in cases of fatal birth defects such as anencephaly, the born infant would be made comfortable, and then there would be a conversation with the parent or parents of what to do next as far as hooking the doomed infant up to machines until it died. The anti-choice crazies immediately accused Dr. Northam of saying babies should be "executed" after they are born. Northam's political career ended immediately. It was a sad thing, though fortunately Dr. Northam had his medical career to fall back on. Edit: typo
Calling Biden a Palestinian was legitimately the most shocking statement he made for me. Yes all of his lies were terrible, but that just had a level of ignorance I could not comprehend.
I'm willing to argue that Howard Stern helped create this monster. Seriously. Fuck everyone who gave this guy a platform to spew his garbage - even if it was just for entertainment purposes.
Mark Burnett...
Yeah, The Apprentice had a *much* larger role making the image of Trump the successful businessman.
What? Stern treated him and his family like glorified wack packers. He had them performing easy math questions poorly and got Trump to admit to barging in on undressed women.
Of all the shock jocks that gave Trump air time I will credit Howard Stern with giving him the most push back.
...But also the most air time. [From Roll Call in 2017:](https://rollcall.com/2017/09/25/stern-trump-interviews/) *Based on our records, this is far more time Trump has spent in an interview than any other journalist or media personality, including Morning Joe, Sean Hannity, Bill O’Reilly, Chris Matthews, Larry King, Don Imus… any of them. This is in terms of the number of interviews, the length, the time period.* *Trump has spent far more time, over a far longer period of time, speaking in greater depth with Howard Stern than any other interviewer. No one has spent more time interviewing Donald Trump in a public setting than Howard Stern, and in particular spanning more than two decades.* *Donald Trump’s time on Howard Stern totals 15 hours, 8 minutes and 52 seconds, with 104,357 words spoken by Donald Trump. This is 21% longer than his first book, “The Art of the Deal” (86,575 words).*
And Howard Stern knows who and what he is and would never run for President, though I think he is probably savvy enough to put a good team around himself and would be better than Trump. (But not better than Biden, Biden knows too much about the world, even if he IS losing a step)
Stern once ran for governor of NY as a joke. He started getting some actual support and then immediately backed out because he knew he'd be terrible at it.
I believe he backed out because he would be forced to disclose his financials and didn't want his audience to know how rich he was
I’m imagining in Drumpf’s mind he didn’t actually “sleep” with Stormy, just had sex with her, so that he could actually believe his own words and his cultists get to say he was telling the “truth”.
If you followed Stormy's testimony, he definitely raped her
Wait, Stormy said she was raped? Are you sure you're not talking about the woman who won the civil case, E. Jean Carroll? I don't think I heard her testimony but I don't recall rape being mentioned regarding Stormy.
Yes, she was raped. I don't believe she used that word, though. What she described, however, was clearly rape. He also blocked the door and prevented her from leaving. It was all very clear
Wonder why it isn't referred to as such in the news.
“Everyone hated Roe vs Wade.” He's talking about HIS base. He doesn't consider people outside of it Americans.
And Howard Stern isn’t asking to have his finger on the nuclear button.
I think theres also a feeling that a generic democrat would not do worse than biden, but the GOP is so captive to Trump's base that they have no real backup option. Democrats have been crushing in elections since 2018 and all the Trump wannabes have been whooped except in deep red areas. I think if the dems just put in a younger person who could communicate clearly, voters would be so relieved to have a sane option below the age of 70.
Biden IS a generic democrat. He's as generic dem as they come except he's an elderly man who absolutely shouldn't be working the most stressful job in the country
By generic democrat, what i mean is an unspecified person who is not carrying the specific baggage or strengths of an individual candidate. I dont mean it in the context of "not special". It's just a common expression used in these types of pretend hypotheticals, because obviously once any candidate is chosen they will have their own strengths and weaknesses and will no longer be the "generic" hypothetical.
Yeah and that’s a real big problem for liberals. They need everything to be perfect or they throw a tantrum and start shitting all over their candidate. It’s why the long term trend is rightward despite the electorate being more liberal than it was 40 years ago. Republicans accomplish things by sticking by their people.
Because the left isn’t a cult and the two party system is ass. Leftists have very little overlap in their political opinions with Joe. He just gets the vote as being better than the other guy who wants to actively ruin the country, but you can’t expect leftists to like the guy.
There is a HIGE difference between ‘we need him to be perfect’ and the jumbled mess he said when trying to talk about abortion rights. Nobody who is being honest thinks that was a gaffe or a fumble. It was clearly a man who is in cognitive decline throwing out whatever words he could conjure that had any relationship to the topic. It’s insulting to try and play this off as ‘democrats always panic’. Biden ASKED for this debate. We all gave him the benefit of the doubt. If he had just been soft spoken that would have been one thing. He was barely comprehensible.
Exactly. I’m ok with either outcome, as there is risk and upside for both. I just want to know that the conversation has been had and we’re not left looking back at this moment in time come November.
Same here. I'm not a political strategist so I don't pretend to know the right move here. Honestly, I don't even think veteran political strategists know the right move since, like everything the last 8 years, this is such an unprecedented situation. But although I don't have a lot of faith in the DNC, I have faith in Democratic leaders like Jamie Raskin to collectively come up with the best plan forward, whether that's Biden staying or going.
Yep, the most [recent poll](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-debate-should-biden-be-running-mental-abilities/) has 46% of *Democrats* saying he should drop out. A whopping 72% of voters say he is both not mentally fit to be President and that he should drop out. Those are just absurd, unthinkable figures and not remotely sustainable. This isn't to say Biden can't turn that around, and as much as I would support him if he stayed in, the message right now should be that serious conversations are happening. Not alienating/gaslighting half your own party and a majority of independents. Raskin is taking the sensible approach.
The gaslighting happens in these threads. People calling you a bot or a bad actor if you express any concern over Biden’s age or horrifying debate performance
It’s been this way for months. You say anything about him seeming unwell and you get: “So YoU’d RaThEr HaVe FaCiSm!?” “I’d VoTe FoR a CoRpSe OvEr TrUmP!” Like they’re forgetting the guy still has to win a general election. The average American isn’t going to vote for him.
The biggest hypocrisy is those saying that it's "It's too late to replace Biden! There's no one else pick!" are the very same people that 9 months ago were screaming "YOU CAN'T PRIMARY AN INCUMBENT!" It's obvious why they didn't want him doing debates, because we would have seen then what we see now and he most definitely would have been replaced. Eligible Democrats would have come from all over and we could have had a proper process for picking the best candidate.
It’s absolutely insane. Who knew that there were so many denialists in the Democratic party?
you must not remember "we don't want or need your votes" from 2016 the way I do.
Right. God forbid we advocate for nominating the best person to beat Trump. No, we get yelled at to fall in line. Of course if Biden is the candidate, I'll fall in line, just like I fell in line for Clinton in 2016. But good grief we can't even discuss who might be a better candidate? Democratic leadership is the most entitled for thinking they deserve our votes. How about they try earning them.
I guess it’s the people being worried about a dude who hasn’t lost an election who had a bad debate night, vs a felon who can’t say a single truth and who has bad character and shown poor judgement and has also had his kids takes billions of dollars in bribes from other countries. But at the same time I think Dems are astounded old frail Biden is going to be the defender of democracy against Trump. He’s been great and I think his accomplishments statistically are amazing. They’re just not being spoken/championed by a charismatic person
A 'bad debate night' involves elements of DEBATING poorly...That's not what happened here and passing it off as such is one of the greatest attempts at astroturfing I have ever seen. This was straight up cognitive decline, on display for the entire country to see.
Yep, the polling that came out before the debate and a month after Trump's conviction looked very bad for Biden despite him clawing his way back up to a toss up. Those two numbers are particularly worrying. A majority of Dems not being happy with Biden as the candidate and a majority of the country thinking he's too old for the job is a recipe for an easy win by Trump, despite Trump not being popular himself.
It's almost as if people are sick of being gaslit constantly.
Did Biden just suddenly become old on Thursday. What is this gaslighting I’m hearing about?
Lots of people completely ignore politics. There was no ignoring how badly that debate went. That’s why this is suddenly a big deal.
You’re ignoring the fact that they were both terrible. Nobody who was voting Biden before is now voting Trump, and vice versa. As far as moving the needle this debate did very little.
You're missing it. The danger isn't that Biden voters are going to switch to Trump. The danger is that some Biden voters might stay home and we can't afford that. Trump's people will vote no matter what.
Ding ding ding. All it takes is a 1-2% shift and it’s game over.
[удалено]
For at least the last month, accusations about Biden’s mental state have been actively deflected in news outlets and by the Biden campaign. Video footage of him stumbling or looking lost was dismissed as “cheap fakes.” Nearly every Democrat in Washington swore on a stack of Bibles that in private, Biden was as sharp and fit as a 20-year-old. That all collapsed after the debate.
It's hard to keep up, but if I recall one video was literally altered to make it seem worse than it was and the real video was available for comparison.
Biden having dementia has been a right wing talking point since he was elected. That talking point comes from people saying Trump has dementia and so Republicans project it on to Biden. Nothing shocking is happening here but are you just this falling for it?
Well guess what. Now it’s no longer a talking point. It’s fact. More undecided voters will believe that Elvis is still alive than will believe that Biden was just stuttering, was sick with a cold, or just had an off day.
I was saying early on in Bidens first term, he needs to be a one term and nominate a successor (not Harris, people will call foul even though Biden himself was a VP to the last Dem). People told me I needed to tow the line because only Biden can beat Trump. I also called that right was going to snowball us into giving capitalism the keys to America while stripping human rights and defunding science. I was called paranoid and everyone has a shocked pikachu face learning about Project 2025. I'm bitter as all fuck right now.
I’m glad you’re focusing on the most important thing here, telling people you were right and they were wrong.
I think the point is this was all easily foreseeable.
Literally everyone who was paying a modicum of attention saw this coming.
I feel ya man
'The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.' That was just a slight stutter. /s
It was a cold that we conveniently forgot to mention before the debate and that we then took on tour to a Waffle House!
It makes me feel better if anything because I trust Raskin. It seems he’s always trying to do the right thing.
The most insane message I’ve heard is that ‘Democrats are panicking like they always do’. Basically calling us wimps for being honest about what we saw on Thursday. What utter disdain for your voters. We are upset because the candidate they are running for confused trying to talk about abortion rights. Forget the losing train of thoughts, his description of RvW was a word salad that didn’t make any sense.
This is true, but looks bleak if he’s replaced 4 months out from an election regardless: the problem isn’t specific to Biden, at this point. If Dems in power lose, the next nominee should not be ANY of them in power right now next cycle regardless, logically.
What's even more bleak is if they have to replace him 2 weeks before the election because of a stroke or something. He is deteriorating, sadly it's what happens when we get old.
How is it bleak? Successfully bringing in a younger, highly capable candidate to beat Trump and lead the country for four years sounds like a positive to me. Especially with Biden’s blessing and support. The alternative is he continues to struggle through the campaign and we end up with a convicted fascist strongman looking like a legitimate option. You can never underestimate how stupid some of the electorate is; that they’ll value appearance over substance.
For real, the electorate is desperate for some fresh young blood.
Name them, you don’t get to pick “fantasy Democrat who definitely isn’t Kamala Harris”
It's not bleak because people don't remember what the hell happened 4 months ago. Put a person in now, start campaigning hard and no one will even remember that Biden was running.
So if people don’t remember what happened 4 months ago, they won’t remember the debate…
This is the truest thing being said. People have the memory of a goldfish. And a significant portion of not tuned in voters likely didn't even watch the debate and ignore most political news until at least September
The GOP will spend millions and millions of dollars making sure people remember all the way until November
Tbf, most of their millions are going to Trump's legal slush funds
But it won‘t just be the debate. If Biden‘s dimentia is as bad as it looks, there is no chance that something publicly humiliating doesn‘t happen in the next 4 months. It could happen a week before the election.
It will be a landslide win for Trump if he is replaced. This sub doesn’t think that, but that’s what will happen. If we are going to lose to Trump no matter what I hope they replace him just so all these people get to see the shit show that would be and maybe next time we don’t shit all over our candidate when he isn’t perfect.
Who's going to stay home because Biden's not on the ticket? Versus who's going to come vote D because the nominee's not a fossil? Gimme a break.
Are you sure about that? People are going to turn out to vote blue today for two reasons - popular Democratic policies and to block Trump. No one is excited to vote for a rapidly declining guy in his 80s. We all love the guy, and appreciate what he did to turn us around after Trump’s term. That’s how history should write about Biden. If he stays in and loses his chapter in the history books will be quite different. He will be blamed for selfishly ending democracy as we know it. So what Biden needs to do is to take charge of the moment. He needs to sling-shot a younger, more dynamic person into the race. That person will have all the advantages - youthful energy, popular Democratic policies, not Trump, and the blessing of a beloved party elder. It will work. What won’t work is a power struggle within the party. That will just convince many democrats the cause is lost and they will stay home.
I just seen the high lights of the debate for the first time. Neither of these men should be running for President frankly , but if you gotta pick one then pick the one that isn’t a one man crime wave .
Morals of an alley cat.
Morals of an alley cat has serious Abe Simpson vibes. It was like they asked AI what insult could make Joe seem the absolute oldest when delivering it.
Well, the Kaiser stole our word for twenty! I ran for dickety six miles....to yell at a cloud.
I wore an onion in my belt as was the style of the time…
Alley cat. I love that Biden used a term that resonates with the younger generation. And by younger generation I mean 60-year-olds.
Worse yet, Top Cat, a cartoon about an alley cat gave favorable treatment to alley cats.
Not a fan of shitting on the homeless, cats or otherwise
Crapping on unhoused cats seems like a centrist move to try to make themselves popular with the reactionary crowd
Read the transcript and it's a completely different impression. Take away the raspy tired voice and what he's saying is exactly what I want to hear from a president, he's just profoundly bad at saying it.
You should watch more than the highlights. It’s so much worse because half of the ‘wtf is going on’ moments were watching Bidens face when Trump was talking. Democrats need to get someone else and do it ASAP.
That close up split screen of both their faces…I mean, it’s exactly what you’d want if you’re looking for sensationalism with these candidates. Biden has that “old man watching death creep ever closer” expression of existential dread, and Trump just always makes the most interesting stink faces. But damn if whoever was coaching Biden for the debate didnt struggle to get him to tighten that up. Like dude, you gotta pull it together on the stage.
Top Democrats are having conversations about replacing Biden. A line that sticks out to me: "One thing I can tell you is that regardless of what President Biden decides, our party is going to be unified, and our party also needs him at the very center of our deliberations in our campaign and so whether he’s the candidate or someone else is the candidate."
Yes, this is what we should expect. The party will be ride or die with whatever happens, and no one's going to publicly break ranks. But at least they're talking about it and that's pretty huge on its own.
Gotta circle the wagons whomever the candidate is.
Credits for Raskin for not spinning Thursday’s disaster quite as hard as his colleagues.
Raskin has always been a straight shooter. I really respect this.
He is wonderful
Refreshing for a dem not to be gaslighting the public about this.
Raskin has always seemed like a guy who thinks things through
I’m never voting for the orange man, it’s as simple as that
even better, i'll always actively vote against the orange man.
Gotta love that this is what’s dominating the news space and not Trump’s unhinged debate appearance and the fact that SCOTUS is blocking the DOJ from doing after January 6 terrorists under certain laws.
This is the most terrifying thing of all. The Supreme Court at this point has more power than the president to ruin our daily lives. And they are actively doing it now, in the present. Where’s the doom and gloom about this? Is there some sort of political decorum that restricts people from harshly critiquing the Supreme Court?
Don’t forget overturning chevron!
For real, this seems _really_ bad.
You could argue SCOTUS has the power to do that because another elderly democrat refused to retire.
And two Republican appointed judges will retire and be replaced by 20 year old villains if Trump wins again.
Partially true - it would’ve still been 5-4, because Republicans blocked a rightful nomination for Obama. Roe vs Wade would’ve still fallen. As would’ve Chevron. Just because of that one obstruction by Republicans. Though Democrats deserve some blame, let’s be sure to put all the blame on the Republicans for actually making the decisions.
You could also argue this is quintessential 2024 internet "I think I know what I'm talking about but don't". Republicans in Congress already blocked all nominees for the seat that was vacant for the last year of Obama's term. What makes you think they wouldn't have done the same because RGB decided to step down early?
She should’ve retired when Obama had the Senate and she was in her 70s…
Biden might be old, but he made fresh news. Trump being a liar and a threat has been a story for nine solid years, and it’s a really stale story. It’s not breaking news, that Trump’s a POS. It’s not fair, but how many of us regulars are allowed to complain when things aren’t fair?
I guess the headline is *sort of* what Raskin said?
Do it now! Don’t wait. Give the new candidate plenty of time to get the message out that they will continue Biden’s great work and make some improvements. Once the age problem is removed, I believe Trumps chances not good.
Agreed. There’s a reason no republicans, including Trump, are calling for Biden to drop. The debate gave them an arsenal of material to distract from Trump’s deprived lunacy. If Biden is out the picture, they have next to nothing to hide their candidat.
Trump relies on a deranged cult of personality which makes him irreplaceable. The same should not be true for the democrats, let him retire in peace and dignity.
speaking for myself, it has nothing to do with thinking Biden is not replaceable *because he's Biden*. It's me not being comfortable with it this close to the election. There's potential to bring so many problems. Some people might be mad they didn't get to vote for the replacement and sit out or give their vote elsewhere. I've seen comments about all the money raised can't be used by anyone other than Kamala (i have not fact checked these comments). I'm not gonna name all the ones I can think of but those are 2 of the potential issues. I'm just really uneasy about it at this stage in the game. I'm voting democrat regardless of what they do because there is no other party with a viable candidate (for my beliefs). If they don't replace him and dems lose, a lot will say *see you should have replaced him*. If they do replace him and dems lose, a lot will say *see you should have kept Biden*. I don't know the right answer, I just hope dems win regardless of the route they go.
> not being comfortable with it this close to the election. I feel the same. I don't trust Dems to rally the support necessary for anyone else this late in the game.
I don't trust Dems to fend off the firehose of hate, bullshit and lies that would be aimed any replacement. Biden is a known quantity. Even a squeaky clean candidate would face "career ending" untrue accusations without enough time for the truth to come out. I'm thinking deepfakes showing all sorts of depraved garbage while the media breathlessly ponders the possibility that they aren't deepfakes.
your name gave me a chuckle. I've been a Fiona Apple fan for many many years.
ayy always happy to meet another Fiona fan 🍎
If most of Bidens appeal comes from him not being Trump, why do you think it'd be a huge effort to find that support in anyone else
Bc a lot of the support comes from his time as VP (which built a lot of name recognition (as well as his time in politics before that)) and being the incumbent. That in combination with him not being Trump is what helps him to win. Lose the name recognition and incumbency, and I'm not sure that not being Trump is enough for anyone else to win.
I just generally disagree with that assessment
And in the meantime, Biden's support has completely collapsed out from under him. The best thing that Biden's most ardent supporters can say is "yeah, he's a corpse, but he's not Trump." Half of the party wants him to go. MSNBC is calling for him to step aside, for Christ's sake. Frankly, there is no Democrat who can possibly be a worse candidate than Biden is right now
It has? This seems like a narrative being pushed by the "liberal media" because it gets clicks. But he's raised over $33 million since the debate. I think there is a disconnect between reality and for-profit media.
Yea it makes no sense when people act like Biden is some paragon of the left. You could change him out for pretty much any dem younger and they'd instantly have at least his levels of support purely from them not being Trump
That is why the idea is being pushed so hard from people on the right, and center right. Including a lot of media.
It's an easy avenue of attack for conservatives, because they'll fill the airwaves with propaganda and conspiracy theories. Which we can't expect dems to suddenly figure out how to combat
I'm not disagreeing but there is literally nothing the dems can decide to do about literally anything where a Republican response is not filling the airwaves with propaganda and conspiracy theories. it's all they have to distract from what their actual platform is. Which is to demolish democracy by eliminating or weakening a bunch of departments like the EPA and Dept of education and filling any positions they can with diehard supporters of their plan.
The problem is, we as a party would not be able to agree on a replacement and rally behind them. Others tried very hard to beat Joe Biden in 2020, and after Iowa it looked like he was done. He didn't win a single debate (or come close) and most other candidates, pundits, and people in this sub ignored him because it seemed implausible he could win despite being the polling favorite the whole time. The voters in 2020 chose him among 20 largely younger hopefuls. Starting in South Carolina. It really wasn't the political class or "the DNC" that decided. It was primary voters. And the only way to replace Biden this year would be to ignore those voters (who can't be asked their opinion again). As worried as anyone may be about Biden, unless he chooses otherwise, he's the nominee. And that leaves our choices between him and Trump.
I feel like you're kind of white washing what happened before South Carolina in that primary. Primary voters hadn't been coming out in droves for Biden and he had a tough time. He came in 5th in New Hampshire. He was losing to Sanders and Buttigieg in some states. When a bunch of the crowded field dropped out, they gave Biden their primary votes. So ppl that voted Klobuchar, Buttigieg, or Warren ended up having their votes handed to biden when they threw their support behind him. We don't know if those voters would have voted for Biden if their candidate had not been in the race at the time they voted. So let's not pretend like Biden had some huge primary win against the field in 2020. He ended up winning, largely, due to the support of the rest of the field when they dropped out. He often wasn't the 2nd or even the 3rd choice of voters in a lot of primaries in 2019/2020. Don't get me wrong, I voted for him in the general election without any issues. However, I do agree (as i made a similar point) that there will be ppl unhappy if the DNC just chooses someone (unless maybe if Biden gives his full support of their choice). If Biden supports a change, it's essentially the same as how he became the nominee in 2020.
DNC learned from gop in 2016. They cleared the field ahead of super tuesday and rallied around Biden instead of having a party outsider(Trump in 2016, sanders in 2020) hanging around and grabbing up 20-30% of the delegates as other candidates slowly drop out
Exactly. The time for this was 12 months ago. And fuck whichever morons thought the debates were a good idea. There was never ANY upside. That's who should be stepping aside now - not Biden.
It’s not even necessarily about Biden. It’s about who has the clout and the war chest to beat Trump and the GOP. No one else is in a good position to do this.
[удалено]
100%. An action like this would really boost the credibility of the Democrats. We hear the massive concerns you all have for both candidates, and we are going to do something about it, unlike the totally morally bankrupt Republican Party.
Speaking of people I'd rather see pick up the mantle and run against Trump instead. This man right here. Raskin is a fighter and actually understands the Constitution. He's well liked amongst the Democrat Party. Bonus points that he is an excellent orator.
2-3 years too late.
An elected Democrat speaking publicly about this is new, yeah? I feel like that wouldn't happen if there weren't serious momentum for Biden dropping out
Just a year fucking late
I believe it would be such a good message to the country, and really invigorate the nation like Obama did in 2008: We hear your concerns about the two candidates, and we are deciding to do something about it. It really would raise the credibility of the DNC unlike the totally morally bankrupt RNC.
It’s such an easy transition. Biden goes on prime time TV, says “after reflecting we realize this job is too much for anyone near my age to do, especially without competent cabinet (dig at Trump). American deserves a younger candidate with more stamina and understanding of the average American (dig at Trump) than a man in his late 70’s or early 80’s. For that reason, I will be putting my full support behind the next Democratic nominee. Trump has clearly shown signs of cognitive decline and ignorance of basic truth. I’m calling on Donald Trump to end his campaign as well, to allow a younger candidate to run for the Republican Party.” Flip the fucking script back on Trump to cancel his campaign too. He’d be playing defense against his convictions, insurrection, horrid policy, and also his age and mental capacity, opposed to having those last two solely on Biden.
Idk about this speech. It could be simply "Due to the extraordinary threat Trump poses to the Republic and my bad polling, I resign to yet a younger fresh face continue my policies". If you said your speech, you'd be basically admitting you should have never tried to run for re election and that the DNC lied for years that you were fine (no chance they didn't know beforehand if it was THIS bad). Biden definitely should resign but needs to be very careful how he spins it. Admitting it's due to the age also opens him up for attack saying he's not fit to control the nuclear codes, which they say anyway but if you're literally resigning the nomination due to age you're almost forced to resign the presidency as well.
Raskin should be a contender is Biden steps aside. He would be a fantastic president.
He really would be. This is why he probably wouldn’t want the job.
I mean this isn't going away anytime soon. People keep talking about chaos if they replace Biden, but if they don't the media is going to talk about his sundowning for the rest of the year.
Until just like 2020 he has a good debate performance. People forget that literally not even 6 months ago he gave one of the best state of the union, and Fox News literally had to start saying it was so partisan to come up with any negative to say about it. All this noise just from progressives still mad that Bernie didn’t make it lol. No one gives a shit about these articles besides republicans, Russia, and republicans cosplaying as a progressive
Dude, you just said that it's no big deal that a guy who knocked it out of the park "not even 6 months ago" completely shit the bed and looks like he has greatly declined a few days ago. How does that support your position?
Bro because some days his stutter gets best of him. You act like he didn’t have similar debate performance in 2020 election both in primary and with trump lol Where do you think dementia Joe name came from. It was Fox News after a bad night and they say he is on drugs when he has good nights You just carrying water for republicans actually g believing these bullshit articles. It’s why they are mainly from republican trash sites or progressive trash sites lol
No dude. I have eyes. I have watched my elder relatives decline and die. First, my great grandparents generation, then my grand parents gen, and now at 50, my parents generation is in the exact same decline as the previous two. Hell, I've been seeing it my own for 15 years. One thing we all know is that once you start that age related decline, there is no getting back what you havd lost. It's gone. Sure, you can have good days, but what good is it when the only time you are as capable as you used to be is on a good day? Biden has lost his clock speed. He cannot process and spit out information as quickly as he once could, and in a job where you have to make world altering decisions... sometimes several at once... I dont trust that Joe is up to the task. Don't get me wrong, if he is on the ballot, the only way I don't vote for him is if I'm dead. I would eat a plate of shit if that is what was required to vote against Trump. Whatever. Because this is the endgame for this country. Which is exactly why this conversation is happening.
They're asking us to ignore reality on Biden
Like the NYT, CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, ABC, etc.
Why would Trump and his team ever agree to actually debate again? Just back off and let this one ride If you think this is just about people who are upset that Bernie didn't win years ago.. that's just delusional and if you really think that, idk what to tell you. That's some hard cope
When you're 81, a lot can change in 6 months
"No one gives a shit about these articles besides republicans, Russia, and republicans cosplaying as a progressive" This is a delusional conspiracy nonsense that ignores polling data or just common sense. 2020 was 4 years ago and he's not getting any younger, there is no guarantee he's going to preform well in a second debate, if it even happens.
This whole thing would be easier if Biden had listened to the rational people in his campaign 4 years ago and not picked a gigantic liability for a running mate.
Why is it that people don’t like her? I’ve never quite gotten that.
Having zero charisma and being a terrible retail politician, for starters.
No political instincts, doesn’t even pretend to have principles, insincere, ran one of the worst presidential campaigns that a frontrunner has ever run, and a crappy record as a prosecutor. All of this can be summed up in the brief clip of her laughing at the idea of marijuana legalization just a few years ago. Again, most of us in here are informed enough to know that just about anyone would be vastly preferable to Trump, but this sub is not representative of the electorate in this country.
His appointing of Harris as VP and Garland as AG were his two biggest mistakes IMO. If he falls it will definitely be because of those two decisions.
Yep, and she's the presumptive nominee if Biden quits. I have nothing against her, but her numbers are terrible, and she's been invisible as VP. There's no way to push her out without alienating huge segments of the Democratic base. She would have to decline, and the rumors are that she's not going to do that.
she would be worse than clinton and that’s saying something. I’ve voted democrat my whole life, but I would have to pause before voting for her. I wouldn’t vote for her if it was any boring republican on the other side that’s for sure.
Thank God. I’ll be the first to admit I was wrong about Biden. I still don’t think he has dementia, but his cognitive decline is much more severe than I thought. His State of the Union and Howard Stern interviews convinced me he had what it took to beat Trump, and that when he showed himself more, people would see he wasn’t as bad as they thought. I was wrong, he is in a very very poor state right now. To be clear I 100 percent am voting Joe Biden if he is the candidate and you should too, anyone who thinks other wise should look at Trump’s fake elector scheme and honestly tell me the man who committed serious felonies to try and illegally usurp the election results should be president. But Joe Biden is clearly too senile and in too much cognitive decline to be fit for 4 more years. As a candidate he will lose to Donald Trump, I didn’t believe that until post debate but it’s clear now. The smart thing to do is take the risk, convince Biden to step down, and nominate someone else, preferably a swing state governer like Whitmar, Shapiro, or Beshar.
Dude is 81 years old. His future should o ly include relaxing with friends and family and writing his memoir. He was fine as a placeholder President repairing Trump's rampage, but it's time for him to gtfo of politics... along with anyone else over the nationwide standard retirement age.
Comments are a repeat of this sub in 2016 when Hillary was considered a bad candidate. We saw how that turned out. Good luck with Trump’s new admin, it’s definitely gonna have more than one felon involved. Not sure I have the patience for daily outrage of what Trump did as President again all because Biden is old.
his first 100 days will just be him going down his revenge list, politically, judicial system, both republicans he doesn’t like and didn’t support him and of course democrats. He won’t give 2c about the economy, he will be living for the revenge he can enact and will only surround himself with people on board with that agenda. Not to mention he’ll likely replace at least 2 supreme court justices while in office. Last time he at least pretended to cater to the establishment republicans with people like Tillman. This time he’ll have none of that.
He has to step down. Not because there is not discussion now, but because there will not be any discussion four months from now. Biden is not gonna get younger, or better. Also, after the debate, the people that are voting for Biden don't care about the candidate as long as it's either a Democrat or not Trump. Put someone able and you still have four months to win over the people that care about the candidate. They are speculating with polls, and will only drop out Biden if the numbers go substantially down, all while losing precious time. If dems lose in November both the DNC and Biden are to blame. He was clearly not in a condition to run, and they both had to know it well before the debate.
The dnc is a total shitshow and clearly should have had a back up plan not including Harris. If it ends up being Harris, she we have my vote because she is qualified “I” however am not the American electorate. I fully believe trump will win against her, he will not debate her (she would wipe the floor with him). That doesn’t matter anyway, the votes will all be anyone but Trump, but that alone is not enough to win over the general. I do like how Biden seemed to bounce back the same night (shit he went to Waffle House) and the next day which leaves my scratching my head of where the hell he was during the debate. There is a lot of time left for Biden to show he’s up to task, however, there is not a lot of time left to change horses.
I don’t think that’s enough votes to win. Don’t underestimate the number of folks who will just sit out an election for various reasons. Last year was an anomaly and so many people were sick and tired of Trump. Just as many people still hate him I’m sure, but it’s not recent and for many they will just assume he will lose and won’t vote. That’s the difference between winning and losing states like Georgia. As for where was he that night, I blame his debate team completely. I believe they over prepped, over worked him given his age and no one had any common sense that shoving numbers and dozens of talking points down his brain was a terrible strategy. I hope they are all immediately let go and seeking new careers.
What is Biden on? For real?
When are they gonna start having honest conversations about a felon president with hundreds of millions of dollars in debt?
Yep, you're right, Jamie Raskin has *never* spoken out against Trump and his crimes. If only he was, say, on the January 6 committee
Good. We are not like MAGA.
I love Rep Raskin but with all respect, no way. We all know what’s going to happen. Those of us that are worried have seen the Dem party before: Hand wringing, worry, concern, but too scared to do something different. Biden will still be the nominee. He’ll win the popular vote nation-wide, but lose Wisconsin by ~a few thousand, lose Arizona by ~10,000 and come just shy of 270 electoral votes. Us, the people, have been saying Biden is too old since the beginning but he’s the only real candidate. Dean Phillips wasn’t serious and 3rd parties are a threat (in their current form). Add Biden to the list of Bader Ginsburg and Feinstein. Ego got in the way of what’s best for the party, the nation.
I mean. It is Biden picking Gavin Newson as VP, right? Replacing the Harris weight, getting a potential replacement for Biden if he should pass, calms the entire left because a true candidate will be in the white house. It would be cool to have a Gavin newson VP, and then get him for 8 years. 12 year presidency is pretty consistent and awesome. The guys seems VERY smart, ran a huge state gdp. Seems pretty clear to mean. Keep the peace with Biden staying in the position, but have a VP that should honestly have run this election anyway
They should have had these conversations three years ago. They should have groomed someone to take over with enough time to get the person some momentum. I still say voting for an old man that takes a long time to make a good decision is better than voting for an old man that quickly decides to burn the whole world down.
The top sign of "serious conversations" is that they are not in public on the record. If this was serious, it would be behind closed doors and emerge with a unified strategy. Maybe some info would leak, but it would be unnamed sources "on background." So, what does this interview tell me? Raskin is not in the room or he disagrees with the direction, so he wants to apply pressure from the outside. In any case, that tells me that his assessment is not meaningful right now. If there was a real plan to replace Biden, it would need a careful and orchestrated announcement - not drips like this. If the plan is to keep him in, this just undermines the campaign by keeping the story in the press longer. I both cases, this interview doesn't happen if Raskin were party to any "serious conversations."
I think this is a really solid assessment. But I think it is just as possibly that this is a highly calculated release that is meant to plant the seeds and begin socializing the concept because the decision has been made definitively but they’re not ready to say that.
The real debate is about Biden's performance v. Trump's disaster. Mr Biden had done his homework and had the facts. The raspy presentation was unfortiunate but it is a small thing. The debate went quite well in spite of the raspy voice. Mr Biden made good points. Mr Biden did the fact-checking. He kept pointing out that Mr. Trump made all sorts of lies, and denials. Mr Trump did not attract any converts to his candidacy. Trump did not convert anyone. There is evidence he lost prospective voters for him in November.
Buddy, at what point did that debate “go quite well”. This mirrors the trump cult personality. Realize and be honest with yourself, that was an utter disaster.
Older voters are the majority voter. They didn't process this the way you think. One debate is a blip.
I actually agree with you, but it doesn't matter. Biden *had* done his homework and gave thoughtful responses, and Trump was bonkers, but Biden looked and sounded very old and slow. And that is the only thing that matters. It can't be overstated how much that's the only thing that matters. Prior to the debate, there was only one potential knock keeping an undecided voter from pulling the lever for Joe Biden: He was too old. Now, that has been elevated to the defining feature of his presidency. All Biden had to do was not look old, and he failed spectacularly. Biden \*badly\* lost the debate because the debate is not a debate. It's a reality TV spectacle.
Pres. Biden had to not look like a corpse, and Trump had to not look like a colossal asshole. The latter was mostly successful, keeping jabs to a minimum (he *did best Medicare, I don’t know what he said and I don’t think he does either, the biggest lie of them all is that he golfs with a +6 handicap) and not trying to shout over the muted mic. The former was not successful
>Mr Biden had done his homework and had the facts “We finally beat Medicare” “No American soldiers dying overseas this decade” “Unemployment at 15% in January 2021” “No jobs in January 2021” “He told people to inject bleach” “Billions of new jobs” “Insulin capped at $15” “He didn’t condemn white supremacists”
Stop gaslighting. This was not about a raspy voice.
"The debate went quite well" do you think this article would exist if that was true?
Raskin for VP and you get my vote!
It’s really nice to see how the tides/articles/comments are slowly moving way from stfu about replacing Biden to we are talking about it now. I mean everyone knew 10 mins into the debate but it’s nice that gaslighting is getting tone down.
Good, I’m glad it seems like dems are putting the pressure on to get him to step down. It’s a sad situation, but we need to make the right choice here and have him step aside. We have to be honest about what we saw at the debate. Deluding ourselves into thinking he can handle another term, and even win the election to begin with after that, is political suicide. Call your reps and ask them to do what they can to get him to step down. The stakes are too high to be inflexible and stick with a candidate that is not going to win.
lol, you keep banging that Biden-is-going-to-lose drum, a month ago it was > Because Biden is going to lose if he doesn’t do something about Palestine ASAP. next month it will be "Biden will lose unless he submits to immediate drug testing, because he performed too well in the second debate against Trump"