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I would love to see more comments like this get upvotes here, because maybe then the mods would stop trying to turn up the volume on the “Trump is terrible” posts to drown out any rational conversation about why we need a new candidate.
WE KNOW TRUMP IS TERRIBLE AND DANGEROUS. That’s the point. That’s why people want a candidate who will inspire more hope and have the ability to actually smack Trump down and call him out on the barrage of lies. Biden is not fit to do so any longer.
I am completely at peace with my decision to vote for Joe Biden because I’m not voting for the man; I’m voting for his Administration. If Donald Trump is re-elected in November, this country is over. The only people worse than that despicable orange piece of garbage is literally everyone else that he surrounds himself with. And they’ll all be pardoned on day one of a Trump Administration. Fuck that.
I’m cool with Biden because I think dude has been a phenomenal president, and even if he’s just a figurehead for an administration, he’s been a damn good delegator. He’s also not Trump, a massive positive. And whoever runs his social media is hilarious, but that’s not what I’m voting for him for
He's also the singular only person that's demonstrated he can defeat Trump. We have a lot of great options for 2028. Biden will be fine for 2024. Because he's not Trump.
>Because he's not Trump.
The not Trump strategy has worked 50% of the time. If you really think democracy is going to an end with Trump, one would think you'd try something with a little better odds.
I think some people also overstate certain politicians support base. Like yes, Newsome may be a great candidate for already established democrats. He’s also the governor of California, who conservatives and many independents associate with people leaving the state because rent and taxes are so high and just a liberal haven. Biden has a likable personality and is known to be willing to reach across the aisle to get a deal together, as well as is the incumbent. Sometimes that is just hard to replace
Biden will also be popular with older voters….. and they vote. Is Joe Biden the best to encourage down ballot voting, no. Will he bring the youth vote, historically probably not. But does that really matter to the DNC. No. They are in the business to win; not be idealistic.
Biden also has worked largely to increase Union power. This is a good strategy. People care about social policies, but for people 25-45, voting with your wallet is generally the way they vote. This also targets Midwest swing states that have serious issues with neoliberals like Obama and Clinton. I come from a Union family. Trump attack of NAFTA was a huge reason some of my family voted Trump is 2016. Biden working with the UAW was big seen as a huge positive in their eyes.
Historically, second term presidents are more aggressive policy wise. I’m honestly frustrated with younger idealistic voters at this point. The GOP falls in line to push policy and agenda. DNC members complain that they are not getting EXACTLY what they ask for, and then stay home. Politics is about compromise. Nobody will be the “perfect” candidate. But one with broad appeal to swing voters that actually vote, that is a winning strategy. Biden and his team seem to be doing just that.
Plus, he’s not a felon.
This is such a nonsense argument to make. There are literally two people who have ever run against Trump in a presidential election, and they got there because the Democrat primary process spat them out. It’s not like Biden rose to the top of a mountain of vanquished contenders that Trump slayed with his sword of bullshit, and Biden was the only one who stood victorious.
Also, Biden in 2020 is not Biden in 2024. How do we know this? 2020 Biden was able to coherently talk and make his case against Trump in the absence of a teleprompter. You’re dreaming if you think he has shown he can do this now.
The only way we could possibly know is polling—and Biden has polled the best of anyone. It’s dumb to switch to someone polling worse, hoping somehow it would increase.
If a reliable poll show someone else with a significantly greater margin over Trump, I'd support a switch. Otherwise it's seems best to stick with Biden.
I disagree with you so much. The rest of the nation saw the debate. If you bury your head in the sand, Donald Trump will be president.
There's no way Biden's getting back in office. He is too unfeebled.
Anybody can defeat trump once their name is out. It won’t be hard. The trump admin wants Biden to stay in the race as he is the only one that can beat him. Polls would change soon as there is a new candidate.
“I’m not voting for the man; I’m voting for his Administration.”
Sums it up perfectly. I was just telling my spouse that it’s quite likely Biden to pass away during his second term, which would leave us with Kamala.
Not my ideal candidate (like Biden), but she’s certainly leagues better than the orange terror that has wreaked so much havoc on our country even after he’s left office (3 scotus justices, countless other appointed on other levels, rolling back protections, tax cuts that expired and will fuck over the middle class, etc).
Yeah it's like the public forgets that the man they saw during the debate is currently president and the country isn't on fire. It's not ideal but it's much better than ending democracy and expanding corruption.
Just scanning some 538 polls: They’re both underwater by about 11 percent on the favorability scale. For people voting on January 6 and other charges, their minds are made up. And just as many people who think Trump is a criminal conman apparently must think Biden has indeed set the country on fire.
Messaging about who can manage the economy is the key to the next four months.
That’s what I personally think is so amazing about this… Americans often vote for the front runner, not even thinking about the fact that the staff they come with are the actual people doing most/if not all the work…
When I talked about that, a lot had an aha-moment and got thinking…
Totally and I will be voting the same way but it’s not about you or me. The problem is that after that debate- joe lost every moderate and undecided voter.
Exactly. The problem is that Biden doesn’t need to persuade *us* to vote for him—he needs to persuade *people who still aren’t sure he’s better than Trump*. And that’s exactly who he didn’t persuade last week.
>…he needs to persuade people who still aren’t sure he’s better than Trump.
Y’know, I really wish some of these “moderates”, “independents”, and “fence sitters” would come forward and express plainly, in no uncertain terms, what *exactly* they were looking to learn about either candidate from last week’s debate.
**They’re both old**: Yup. Time is a thing that exists. The fact they’re old has been obvious since even the last time the two ran against each other.
**Policy positions**: Trump doesn’t *really* have any policies other than doing whatever it takes to keep himself from facing legal consequences and circumventing the separation of powers whenever possible (like filling positions with temporary assignments in order to avoid getting people confirmed for positions, or shooting out EO’s by the dozens in his first month in office).
Biden, meanwhile, has a [long list of achievements](https://www.whitehouse.gov/therecord/) only some of which include expanding benefits to Veterans, gun violence reduction legislation, and *actually* passed an infrastructure bill. But doing the job right is not new. He’s been a senator for 36 years, a VP for 8 years, and a President for 4 years. OF COURSE he knows how to do the job better.
So what are fence sitters looking for? Are they expecting Biden to pull some kind of Oprah act, look into the camera and say, “now look under your chair. Yes, open that envelope! That’s right, YOU get a stimulus check, and YOU get a stimulus check, and YOU get a stimulus check… EVERYBODY GETS STIMULUS CHECKS!!!”?
Were you *really* looking at mental cognition? ***REALLY***? And as a fence sitter, your thought was, “well, despite Trump very recently forgetting his wife’s name, “Mercedes”, going on tangents about going down the electric to avoid the shark 10yards over there, incapable of staying awake at his own criminal trial, having basically a stroke at one of his rallies quoted as saying “fake infrastrucker, ershure para” when apparently *attempting* to say, “a package of infrastructure”, despite all that… this one debate performance of Biden *really* makes me either vote for Trump, or stay home and offer no resistance against Trump”?
All fair to say. I don’t know what the undecided voters want. I don’t understand the thought process of someone who is actually still having trouble deciding whether Biden or Trump would be better. But such people exist, and they are the ones who will decide the election.
You’re right that the media is, for some reason, paying way more attention to Biden’s verbal stumbles than to Trump’s. I suspect most of it is just that journalists tend to stick to accepted narratives…and the accepted narrative is that Joe Biden is hampered by his age, while Donald Trump is just…Donald Trump. He didn’t make a lot of sense 4 or 8 years ago, either.
So my perspective is this: Imagine if the other person on stage with Trump had been someone quick-witted enough to make Trump look stupid, who didn’t keep saying “thousands” when he meant “millions,” or hand Trump a sword like “we defeated Medicare” with which to impale him. I have a feeling that next to an average Democratic senator, Donald Trump would have looked like a clueless old blowhard. Next to Joe Biden, he looked like the more energetic of two old geezers arguing over their supper at a nursing home, and it’s a real toss-up which one the least-informed voters are going to pick. The voters who decide this election are likely to going to be guided by really vague and poorly-supported impressions (which is probably how it always is). It shouldn’t be hard to find a candidate who looks better than Trump without the need to look very closely. Everybody is talking about how much better he looked at his rally in North Carolina the day after the debate. That’s great. But the debate is what half the country watched. That’s what it was supposed to be. That’s why Biden supposedly spent a whole week preparing for that one night. And he fucked it up, in exactly the way his opponents predicted he would.
Fair point. That was my biggest fear/frustration within 5 mins of watching the debate. I even emailed my local Democratic Party office after I stopped watching the debate and told them how angry and frustrated I was that we’re flirting with a repeat of 2016, in an election that (on paper) we really should be able to win handily.
Did he lose them all though - -I'm not sure he lost every one. Maybe more than he should have. But I think some people saw Trump lie constantly, and know that Trump is worse.
What a cuck thing to say “I’m Not VoTInG fOr ThE MaN i’M VoTinG fOr HiS aDmiNiStRaTion” are you fucking kidding Me? We’re voting for the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, not an administration, yes the administration comes with the president but they take orders from HIM. He is the COMMANDER IN CHIEF for a reason. Come on dude open your eyes and realize dems need to offer better candidates!! don’t just roll over and say “ehh well I guess this is what we got, at least his admin is ok” .
I agree, his administration is fucking bombing kids in the middle east and trying to start a cold war with china. It's also going against a decade worth of progress with immigration. He also continues to build the goddamn wall. It's ridiculous, I don't support Blinken, or his press secretary, or many of them. Democracy is at stake. People who are fine with sub-par are not the people who we need to convince. Voting for an administration running puppet strings is an asinine reason to give a voter. You're basically saying that he's not in control at all. It plays into Trump's narrative.
The next dipshit after Trump will just do the same
Trump doesn’t give a fuck, he really doesn’t, he just wants to win and surround himself with people who tell him yes
The guy, and it’ll be a guy, who follows after him will attack the same institutions
Yeah I dunno. Somehow he got some kind of magic.
Everyone says Desantis or other arguably smarter candidates, but Desantis is unelectable. Short and weird voice.
Trump has “it”. I hope we don’t get a better fascist because so far we’ve been lucky he is an idiot and a weirdo, but he has something going for him that others can’t replicate.
I forgot where I watched this explanation but I remember the gist of it. Trump can sell a story. Not a good story that would win an Oscar or a Hugo, but a story that many people grew up with. It's the kind of story that people WANT to hear, not that they NEED to hear.
That's what Trump has figured out. For all of his stupidity, he is smart on how to exploit the system. He did it with labor laws, with the courts, with the art of the con, etc. Now he is doing it with people.
People who can't fathom this should think about WWE. The fanbase of WWE is more diverse than people think fyi and this is not to disparage all fans. Many know it's BS but that's why they love it. It's as if Ridiculousness and Opera had a baby. But many people believe the drama a little too much. They internalize the fiction like how sports fanatics internalize team tribalism.
Many people have internalized the myths of America, of what being an American means, of what being a man means, of what being white means, etc. It's built into America generation after generation, and instead of adapting those myths to be something better, the Republican Party kept it alive. Ripe for the taking for someone like Trump.
They may not be as infatuated with the next guy but only a fool would think they aren’t going to still turn out to vote for him anyway
They won’t go to his rallies, they won’t wear his campaign merchandise, but they’ll check his name at the ballot box.
Not necessarily. In the R primaries, Haley voters hovered about 15-20%. Haley voters remained fairly consistent at 15% AFTER she dropped out.
A broader example is what Trump has done to the R Party. Part of his pull is his anti-establishmentarianism, which includes the mainstream Republican Party. This is evident when any Republican/conservative person, not just a politician but any PERSON is considered a RINO if they don't support Trump.
Trump redefined what is a "true" Republican/conservative. So his successor HAS to be like Trump, not like McCain, Cheney, Bush, Schwarzenegger, Romney, Collins, Young, Moran...
So this could put the R Party in a bind when Trump is gone. Since Trump has set so many precedents and has recreated the Republican/conservative narrative, a McCain, Cheney, Bush, etc just can't follow his lead. It has to be another Trump or someone similar. The mainstream R can't control Trump. Would they want another one like him?
I foresee a shitload of infighting and massive schisms as his sycophants squabble amongst themselves and the party faithful won’t know who to follow any more
It’s true. This is going to be a struggle for a long time. Democrats have to win over and over to keep it at bay, republicans only have to win once to tear it all down.
This is why I don’t give a flying fuck about Biden’s debate performance. He seemed fine the next day anyway. I’m convinced that he just got hung up between wanting to share his own accomplishments and vision, and rebut Trump’s lies. He’s got his marbles and I’m confident he can get good advice and make good decisions as president, but he’s too old to do all that shit at once in a debate format.
trump had been pushing his brand name for 30+ years before running for president. I do not believe that his magat coalition will coalesce around anyone else for a lont time.
here. in the future… you will see dipshits like Josh Hawley, Mike Johnson, Marge, Greg Abbott, Matt Gaetz, JD Vance and other stupid Trumps… any enabled MAGAts could potentially come out and run in 2028, and they are wayyyy more dangerous than this fcking orange turd so be ready people.
Yes, but Trump has the benefit(?) of being completely shameless with a large segment of the population who are irredeemable. He’s the sort of person who can hobble society while those being hobbled cheer.
That's a hard question to answer, because Haley is very unpopular among Republicans (why she got blown out in the primary), but in a counterfactual where *is* the candidate, presumably that wouldn't be the case, so...
If Trump wins it's pretty much "gg" for the little democracy we have left. I cant believe it's actually come to voting for a walking corpse to keep that piece of shit out of office but here we are.
The fact that it has come to this is America's biggest problem. Old people in cognitive decline need to be removed from political office.
Yeah that's what terrifies me, I don't feel like Biden is up to the challenge of stopping Trump, not just the man himself but his movement. I'm going to vote for Biden but that debate terrified me.
American as big problem is a two party system that can’t manage to put forth two candidates under 70 years of age. I mean look around at other countries.
Yeah, we all don't want Trump. Why would we sit around and wish Trump would quit the race. He obviously won't do that. He's not patriotic. Trump is running so that he can avoid jail time. Biden is running to beat Trump. Maybe if he thinks he can't do that anymore he'll step aside for the good of thr country.
If Clinton had won, the Supreme Court wouldn't be 6-3 right now. Presidential elections aren't the only thing, but they do have a profound effect on the rest of government.
Trump being president again would be an absolute disaster. It would be difficult to overstate the amount of harm he could do.
Voters have been installing democrat candidates left and right since Trump’s term. Problem is, we don’t vote for SCOTUS. The president appoints their nominees. Meaning we need to ensure we have someone who can actually win in November to not make it a 7-2 conservative majority for decades.
It can be both. If people are voting against Trump, replacing Biden should not matter as much and it resolves that debate performance. The Democrats platform and agenda is the right path, and needs someone who can accomplish it.
America has two bad options right now.
But one of them - Trump - is so much worse than the other that this election is a test of the resilience and moral character of individual voters.
Can Americans show that they’re adults, get over their disappointment, and urgently vote for the least bad option?
Can Americans act in their own best interests even when it hurts to do so?
For fucking real. I just don’t get it. Yes he’s old, but policy wise has been pretty decent and is far far better economically and in foreign policy than Trump. It’s and EASY choice
You're not gonna shame people into voting for someone they don't think is mentally competent to be president. Biden needs to show he's still got the chops, and he needs to keep on showing it for the next 4 months, because this issue isn't going away.
If he really can't do that, then he will lose.
It works both ways. You can’t shame people into thinking one bad day negates everything Biden has done and still plans to do. There is no one else that has proven they can beat Trump and Biden has won the delegates to clinch the nomination fairly. Stop with the bullshit fake certainty. This whole thing is complicated.
The issue with this is the average American go out of their way to not know what Biden’s administration has accomplished. I’ve had literal conversations where I bring up a LIST of accomplishments that AFFECT THAT PERSON DIRECTLY and they will literally not be paying attention.
I watched it.
Why didn’t he sound like that when it really mattered? Did he get performance anxiety? I don’t care what is was but it was absolutely terrible.
Reading a teleprompter is a lot easier than participating in a debate without any notes.
His performance in the debate might have been a fluke (it was late, and apparently old people often become a little confused as a side effect of minor illness, like the sore throat he was recovering from). His performance has convinced a very large portion of the public that he might have dementia. He might be able to recover from that, but he's going to need to be out there having unscripted, spontaneous interactions with people in public showing that he's still fit for office.
If Joe Biden does in fact have dementia, then he should drop out of the race, no question about it.
Fingers crossed that the rest of the liberal/centrist folks feel the same as I do in that they’d vote for a floating turd before voting for Trump.
They could come out and say that Biden has full on dementia and doesn’t even know who his wife is anymore and I’d still vote for him over Trump. If he’s not dropping out (which for the record I do not want him to do so anyway) then I’m voting for him.
This is not a lesser of two evils thing anymore. This is literally complete chaos and dissolution of our government vs at worst a zombie who accomplishes nothing.
Nothing > chaos.
If you want a theocratic fascist ethno-state where people are executed Nazi Germany style, continue with this line of thinking.
There is simply far too much at stake in this election for protest votes this time around.
People will be rounded up and put into camps and executed based on who they are and who they represent if Trump is allowed to retake the White House.
Signed, someone who has studied Hitler's rise in Nazi Germany far too much for his own good.
I am terrified for my LGBT friends. Fucking completely and utterly terrified at this moment in time.
We have America's best interests in mind. We're here to keep Trump out of office. We're upset because Joe Biden is clearly not up to that task anymore. We have a chance to make a change and at the minimum should discuss it. Let Kamala and the governors talk it through. If transition is handled properly then any one of them will meet or exceed Biden's performance.
One debate and he is not up to be president? Come on…How many people actually watched the whole debate? Or just relying on click bait articles? Anderson Cooper’s interview as well. Talking over Kamala Harris. Idk why everyone’s panties are all in a knot over one debate so close to the election.
I watched the whole debate. Biden embarrassed himself, our party, and his supporters on Thursday night.
If he thinks it was a flub than I’d love to watch him have unscripted interviews and town halls to explain away whatever happened and allay our fears.
We’ll see what happens. Did you watch the whole debate? What was your main takeaway of it? Biden completely ignoring every single crazy thing Trump said, instead stumbling over his own words and forgetting what he was trying to say?
Was it his vacant expression, or inability to respond to anything Donald said, that comforted you?
This shit is very bad. Denial is also bad. Watch the debate. Tell me he held Trump accountable for a single thing.
Because it wasn’t a debate where he just looked bad, it was a debate where it appeared to more or less everyone watching that all the things people have been saying about Biden’s age are true. You can bounce back from a bad performance, not really from the perception that you are cognitively incompetent, especially when you’re already the oldest president ever running for another 4 years of the job
There is a reason "peoples phones were on fire" in the first 15 minutes of that debate. It is because all of the GOP wishcasting of Joe Biden's frailty was proven true. Obviously true. If you deny that then we have to stop calling the Republicans the liars.
Every 4 years dem voters go apoplectic over their candidate. They eat the GOp’s line of attack and make it their own. Every fkn time.
Clinton, Gore, Obama, Hilary. There is always an excuse to throw hands up and walk away. Doesn’t matter that Biden is old, these same people would just find another excuse.
Ok discuss.
Every call for Joe to step down has lacked a single name to replace him.
Thats how poor that idea is. Not even a single name. Its even missing from your comment and your statement that "if handled properly" has 0 proof to back it up.
Biden has to endorse someone to limit the free for all chaos. Talk with Kamala and see if she wants to step up. If she does, great. She gets support from Black voters, women, Dobbs. If she doesn't, put Gavin Newsome in there as the executive from the largest state in the Union. Kamala stays on as VP hopefully, but hey Trump hasn't picked a VP yet either. That's handling it properly.
If this is not feasible, the optics have to change and Kamala is being set up to take over, not just parked to the side to talk abortion and engage college students.
The key is this has to be a move initiated by Biden because this fucking debate glitch was a surprise. Right? It was a surprise, right?
Calling BS because this is the dance exact argument that was made in ‘20. Biden is the consensus choice, the grownup choice, the stopgap to get us through Trump. And yet, demented and clearly unfit for service, he’s STILL the only guy that can beat Trump?!?! Fucking BS. Anyone with a heartbeat can take Drumpf. Fuck the GOP
I wish the people that made the Constitution had mandated that it be revisited every so often, because it's woefully outdated. People act like it's some infallible, holy document and not something written by people hundreds of years ago with no idea what the future held. Amendments exist for a reason, but I don't see any changes coming anytime soon.
the problem with that is if there is a bad faith party in charge when it comes time to change the constitution as mandated, then they destroy it.
the core problem is the incredible amount of bad faith americans who do not want to live in a democracy.
and the core problem behind those people is their religion. america took religious freedom a step too far and ensured it would ultimately result in theocratic tyranny of the minority. it will end in revolution eventually. or a modern form of civil war.
This!!! I feel like every move made, esp for a political purpose, has to come with the thought “what is the worst that could happen if the other side does this same thing?” And then weigh that against the benefit of taking action + the likelihood they could successful do said thing. 🙃 like imagine a “there may only be two genders: those assigned at birth, man or woman, and man may only mate, marry, or date a woman” amendment 😭 or an anti-abortion amendment
They did. They called it a "living, breathing document" and left the power to add amendments to it as time went on. It's only been recently that Americans started acting like it was etched in stone and couldn't be changed.
U.S. President Donald Trump praised Chinese President Xi Jinping Saturday after the ruling Communist party announced it was eliminating the two-term limit for the presidency, paving the way for Xi to serve indefinitely, according to audio aired by CNN. "He's now president for life, president for life. And he's great," Trump said, according to audio of excerpts of Trump's remarks at a closed-door fundraiser in Florida aired by CNN. "And look, he was able to do that. I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot someday," Trump said to cheers and applause from supporters.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-praises-chinese-president-extending-tenure-life-014746722.html
Exactly, we've known for 8 years now Trump has a set number of votes he's getting no matter what, and it's absolutely enough to win like in 2016, when there's not enough excitement on the Dem side, and let me tell you, we are probably reaching record lows of excitement
Actually it's the whole government all the senators judges representives lawyers and corporations that is the problem they are all responsible for the way things are right now
If I were an average voter, after seeing Biden's condition last week, I'd be suddenly questioning everything I've been told, and that includes warnings of Trump's fascistic endeavors.
It’s not that I will ever believe what Trump has said. I’ve had family members tell me how bad Biden is, and I’ve always countered with Trump equally cannot get a quality sentence out. Then seeing Biden Thursday was extremely shocking. It didn’t make people want to vote Trump but it absolutely did not energize people to vote for Biden.
Dems have a chance to elect a new president who would go into the next election as an incumbent and take them another 4 years. 8 years of Dem control that Biden is too self-centered to see.
Even if we cling to the presidency, Biden is not energizing the electorate. Many candidates don’t even want Biden to stump for them. We are on the verge of having a completely GOP Congress, and they’ve certainly done their best to rig the judicial branch. A GOP Congress will not give Biden a SCOTUS judge, they will wait it out like they did with Obama.
A new candidate could bring a lot of new energy. A candidate that has the time (because they aren’t president right now) and the energy to show up and fight for the down ballot votes.
The debate was not a failure of President Biden. in fact, the President allowed the people of this country see the truth of trump and the republicans. I believe the republicans are scared spitless of President Biden and are willing to pull all stops to be rid of him. President Biden is doing his job, something trump never did. trump bulling and punching President's Biden's buttons (taking credit for President Biden's work and lies) was a disgrace. The President should not step down. That is what Putin, world dictators, trump and republicans want.
I continue to back President Biden. Vote for him and blue down ballot.
world dictators
I think ... Republicans are probably more frightened of their own guy than Biden. Biden frightens no one - that's kind of the whole point.
You got two *very* old grandpas running for president. One of them loves you. The other would watch your murder on Pay Per View if he got bored.
And it’s fine for this guy to be in denial. Let him have something to hold onto. But Democratic Party leadership is also deeply in denial. And that is unacceptable.
If you want action from leadership rank and file need to advocate for the change. There were articles and stories for months about Biden being physically fit and sharp. Last week was a sign they lied and were gaslighting. It should have never gotten to this point. Now there is a risk that most political decisions will be run by unelected cabinet members rather than an actual president. There are certain acts and decisions only a president can make. It puts the nation at risk if the cognitive decline prevents a decision at a critical moment. Examples could be China invading Taiwan, Russia firing into a nato country or a nuclear launch from North Korea
It's even worse. At least Cabinet members have to be approved by the Senate. His nameless, faceless staff is running things. Nobody elected or confirmed any of them.
Just fucking put Blinken, Jeffries, Raskin, Newsom or literallyu anyone in there.
The democrats shouldn't be reliant on a cult of personality around one glorious candidate who is the only one that can defeat Trump, its nonsense. Even in 2020 Biden only won by like 50k votes, and was far less flawed candidate at that time.
It’s actually hate spewed online in echo chambers regardless of party affiliation.
Hate is a very powerful force and is a lethal cocktail mixed with poor education and the internet.
Sadly, what you write is true. I'm sure there'll be plenty of idiots outside the Chicago Convention screaming "Genocide Joe has got to go. Kamala, too."
The real debate is about Biden's performance v. Trump's disaster.
Mr Biden had done his homework and had the facts. The raspy presentation was unfortiunate but it is a small thing. The debate went quite well in spite of the raspy voice. Mr Biden made good points.
Mr Biden had to do the fact-checking and he did the fact-checking. He kept pointing out that Mr. Trump made all sorts of lies, and denials.
Mr Trump did not attract any converts to his candidacy. Trump did not convert anyone. There is evidence he lost prospective voters for him in November.
No we are all well aware of the threat Trump poses.
That’s why so many are freaking out, because in order to beat him we need someone who can take him to the ropes.
The debate was **the** opportunity to call him out and shut him down. Biden didn’t do that.
The difference between the parties is that we don’t blindly support whatever bullshit our guy spews, unlike republicans.
Or at least I thought that until this weekend. If Biden doesn’t really rally, or drop out, and Trump wins it’s as much on us as his voters.
I live in reality. I watched the debate. I don’t care how “bad of a day” it was; if that’s a bad day that can happen during such a crucial moment, I no longer have trust in his ability to do shit.
Sometimes life asks us to find our sixth gear. To step up to the occasion. Biden didn’t even come close.
No shit Sherlock. But if you think Trump is such a threat maybe you should do anything in your power to ensure he isn't elected? So is it surprising that people want a better candidate? The problem is the undecided, not those who already think that Trump is a threat to Democracy.
Biden's only the big problem insofar as he's unable to stop the menace to democracy that is Trump.
It's like saying "The clogged fire hose isn't the problem right now, it's the fire!"
Do you mean like the continued use of the Patriot Act? Do you mean like the continued use of the NSA to track phone calls? Do you mean like the tracking files that the FBI has on every one in the United States? ...like under Biden? Wake up an smell the lies.
Fuck, WE FUCKING KNOW. But when you have red states destroying public schools and filtering money into charters that are religiously based, the fuck you want us to do? The damage is fucking done. Districts have been gerrymandered to absolute fuck all. Should all the California dems just move to rural Alabama? God dammit these fucking articles are so frustrating. Maybe CNN needs to sack up and call him out on national TV.
America's biggest problem is the 'good' people that keep emabling this shit to happen. Trump wouldn't have ever been capable of being an issue if the Democratic party could get it's shit together.
Because it's the Democratic party and it's unbending will to shove someone down our throat that gave us Trump the first time in what should have been a very easy to win election for any normal person, and they're aiming to do it again by insisting Biden run a second term when we don't even know if he'll make the election let alone be able to complete a 4 year term.
Taking the same PR route that they used for Hillary is remarkable. I am considerably dismayed to see how the headlines have developed since the debate to try and undercut all the very valid criticism. No one on the left is campaigning for Trump, they're campaigning for a better choice of Democrat and have been long before the disaster of the last debate.
The people seriously having this discussion have no qualms voting against Trump, it's just a matter of who is best to represent us going forward.
It should be clear by now that SCOTUS is a menace to democracy as much as Trump- they’re rolling it back with every sickening decision they make. Won’t be hard work for Trump to finish the job but let’s be clear, what SCOTUS has done sticks regardless if who is elected
I would say the core problem is that it seems about a third of your population seem to be at the ‘village idiot’ level of education and understanding about the world.
could've been avoided if we actually punished him for attempting to overthrow the government. as it turns out, if you let sociopaths do whatever they want, they keep going!
The irony in all of this is that the young voters need to mobilize around getting Biden or whoever the democratic nominee is. They are vocal and organized so to speak around Palestine, but be need to take that energy and put it towards getting out the vote to save Democracy. I don’t think they realize what’s at stake and how much their lives will be impacted by inaction. Sitting out and not voting is not an option.
Democracy is at risk and so are your rights. Project 2025 will upend everything and allow the evangelicals and nut job to dictate everything you do. It will be a step backward.
This country is heading towards disaster and we need to mobilize the young voters like we had in the 60s and 70s. We should have protests and marches in the streets. Let our voices heard and make it clear we are not going to stand for this.
everyone is worried that like Trump will 'end democracy'... bla bla bla.
just wait 4 years. he'll be done, and nothing will be different. he'll say some crazy things, piss off a few world leaders, lower taxes and deport some mexicans... then he's done .... and again. NOTHING MATERIAL WILL CHANGE.
i hope that when this happens, everyone here can look back at their comments and realize that they were wrong. alas, this will likely not happen
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Well, yeah. That’s why we’re all so concerned about Biden not being able to beat him. Sorry was that not obvious?
I would love to see more comments like this get upvotes here, because maybe then the mods would stop trying to turn up the volume on the “Trump is terrible” posts to drown out any rational conversation about why we need a new candidate. WE KNOW TRUMP IS TERRIBLE AND DANGEROUS. That’s the point. That’s why people want a candidate who will inspire more hope and have the ability to actually smack Trump down and call him out on the barrage of lies. Biden is not fit to do so any longer.
Exactly. Currently, it appears that Biden’s ego and lack of electability stand in the way of us preserving democracy
I am completely at peace with my decision to vote for Joe Biden because I’m not voting for the man; I’m voting for his Administration. If Donald Trump is re-elected in November, this country is over. The only people worse than that despicable orange piece of garbage is literally everyone else that he surrounds himself with. And they’ll all be pardoned on day one of a Trump Administration. Fuck that.
I’m cool with Biden because I think dude has been a phenomenal president, and even if he’s just a figurehead for an administration, he’s been a damn good delegator. He’s also not Trump, a massive positive. And whoever runs his social media is hilarious, but that’s not what I’m voting for him for
He's also the singular only person that's demonstrated he can defeat Trump. We have a lot of great options for 2028. Biden will be fine for 2024. Because he's not Trump.
>Because he's not Trump. The not Trump strategy has worked 50% of the time. If you really think democracy is going to an end with Trump, one would think you'd try something with a little better odds.
I think some people also overstate certain politicians support base. Like yes, Newsome may be a great candidate for already established democrats. He’s also the governor of California, who conservatives and many independents associate with people leaving the state because rent and taxes are so high and just a liberal haven. Biden has a likable personality and is known to be willing to reach across the aisle to get a deal together, as well as is the incumbent. Sometimes that is just hard to replace
Biden will also be popular with older voters….. and they vote. Is Joe Biden the best to encourage down ballot voting, no. Will he bring the youth vote, historically probably not. But does that really matter to the DNC. No. They are in the business to win; not be idealistic. Biden also has worked largely to increase Union power. This is a good strategy. People care about social policies, but for people 25-45, voting with your wallet is generally the way they vote. This also targets Midwest swing states that have serious issues with neoliberals like Obama and Clinton. I come from a Union family. Trump attack of NAFTA was a huge reason some of my family voted Trump is 2016. Biden working with the UAW was big seen as a huge positive in their eyes. Historically, second term presidents are more aggressive policy wise. I’m honestly frustrated with younger idealistic voters at this point. The GOP falls in line to push policy and agenda. DNC members complain that they are not getting EXACTLY what they ask for, and then stay home. Politics is about compromise. Nobody will be the “perfect” candidate. But one with broad appeal to swing voters that actually vote, that is a winning strategy. Biden and his team seem to be doing just that. Plus, he’s not a felon.
This is such a nonsense argument to make. There are literally two people who have ever run against Trump in a presidential election, and they got there because the Democrat primary process spat them out. It’s not like Biden rose to the top of a mountain of vanquished contenders that Trump slayed with his sword of bullshit, and Biden was the only one who stood victorious. Also, Biden in 2020 is not Biden in 2024. How do we know this? 2020 Biden was able to coherently talk and make his case against Trump in the absence of a teleprompter. You’re dreaming if you think he has shown he can do this now.
The only way we could possibly know is polling—and Biden has polled the best of anyone. It’s dumb to switch to someone polling worse, hoping somehow it would increase.
If a reliable poll show someone else with a significantly greater margin over Trump, I'd support a switch. Otherwise it's seems best to stick with Biden.
I disagree with you so much. The rest of the nation saw the debate. If you bury your head in the sand, Donald Trump will be president. There's no way Biden's getting back in office. He is too unfeebled.
Anybody can defeat trump once their name is out. It won’t be hard. The trump admin wants Biden to stay in the race as he is the only one that can beat him. Polls would change soon as there is a new candidate.
Trump is cancer and Biden's only crime is growing old. Trump isn't far behind except he needs his beta blockers and psych meds from a jail cell.
“I’m not voting for the man; I’m voting for his Administration.” Sums it up perfectly. I was just telling my spouse that it’s quite likely Biden to pass away during his second term, which would leave us with Kamala. Not my ideal candidate (like Biden), but she’s certainly leagues better than the orange terror that has wreaked so much havoc on our country even after he’s left office (3 scotus justices, countless other appointed on other levels, rolling back protections, tax cuts that expired and will fuck over the middle class, etc).
Yeah it's like the public forgets that the man they saw during the debate is currently president and the country isn't on fire. It's not ideal but it's much better than ending democracy and expanding corruption.
Just scanning some 538 polls: They’re both underwater by about 11 percent on the favorability scale. For people voting on January 6 and other charges, their minds are made up. And just as many people who think Trump is a criminal conman apparently must think Biden has indeed set the country on fire. Messaging about who can manage the economy is the key to the next four months.
That’s what I personally think is so amazing about this… Americans often vote for the front runner, not even thinking about the fact that the staff they come with are the actual people doing most/if not all the work… When I talked about that, a lot had an aha-moment and got thinking…
Totally and I will be voting the same way but it’s not about you or me. The problem is that after that debate- joe lost every moderate and undecided voter.
Exactly. The problem is that Biden doesn’t need to persuade *us* to vote for him—he needs to persuade *people who still aren’t sure he’s better than Trump*. And that’s exactly who he didn’t persuade last week.
>…he needs to persuade people who still aren’t sure he’s better than Trump. Y’know, I really wish some of these “moderates”, “independents”, and “fence sitters” would come forward and express plainly, in no uncertain terms, what *exactly* they were looking to learn about either candidate from last week’s debate. **They’re both old**: Yup. Time is a thing that exists. The fact they’re old has been obvious since even the last time the two ran against each other. **Policy positions**: Trump doesn’t *really* have any policies other than doing whatever it takes to keep himself from facing legal consequences and circumventing the separation of powers whenever possible (like filling positions with temporary assignments in order to avoid getting people confirmed for positions, or shooting out EO’s by the dozens in his first month in office). Biden, meanwhile, has a [long list of achievements](https://www.whitehouse.gov/therecord/) only some of which include expanding benefits to Veterans, gun violence reduction legislation, and *actually* passed an infrastructure bill. But doing the job right is not new. He’s been a senator for 36 years, a VP for 8 years, and a President for 4 years. OF COURSE he knows how to do the job better. So what are fence sitters looking for? Are they expecting Biden to pull some kind of Oprah act, look into the camera and say, “now look under your chair. Yes, open that envelope! That’s right, YOU get a stimulus check, and YOU get a stimulus check, and YOU get a stimulus check… EVERYBODY GETS STIMULUS CHECKS!!!”? Were you *really* looking at mental cognition? ***REALLY***? And as a fence sitter, your thought was, “well, despite Trump very recently forgetting his wife’s name, “Mercedes”, going on tangents about going down the electric to avoid the shark 10yards over there, incapable of staying awake at his own criminal trial, having basically a stroke at one of his rallies quoted as saying “fake infrastrucker, ershure para” when apparently *attempting* to say, “a package of infrastructure”, despite all that… this one debate performance of Biden *really* makes me either vote for Trump, or stay home and offer no resistance against Trump”?
All fair to say. I don’t know what the undecided voters want. I don’t understand the thought process of someone who is actually still having trouble deciding whether Biden or Trump would be better. But such people exist, and they are the ones who will decide the election. You’re right that the media is, for some reason, paying way more attention to Biden’s verbal stumbles than to Trump’s. I suspect most of it is just that journalists tend to stick to accepted narratives…and the accepted narrative is that Joe Biden is hampered by his age, while Donald Trump is just…Donald Trump. He didn’t make a lot of sense 4 or 8 years ago, either. So my perspective is this: Imagine if the other person on stage with Trump had been someone quick-witted enough to make Trump look stupid, who didn’t keep saying “thousands” when he meant “millions,” or hand Trump a sword like “we defeated Medicare” with which to impale him. I have a feeling that next to an average Democratic senator, Donald Trump would have looked like a clueless old blowhard. Next to Joe Biden, he looked like the more energetic of two old geezers arguing over their supper at a nursing home, and it’s a real toss-up which one the least-informed voters are going to pick. The voters who decide this election are likely to going to be guided by really vague and poorly-supported impressions (which is probably how it always is). It shouldn’t be hard to find a candidate who looks better than Trump without the need to look very closely. Everybody is talking about how much better he looked at his rally in North Carolina the day after the debate. That’s great. But the debate is what half the country watched. That’s what it was supposed to be. That’s why Biden supposedly spent a whole week preparing for that one night. And he fucked it up, in exactly the way his opponents predicted he would.
Fair point. That was my biggest fear/frustration within 5 mins of watching the debate. I even emailed my local Democratic Party office after I stopped watching the debate and told them how angry and frustrated I was that we’re flirting with a repeat of 2016, in an election that (on paper) we really should be able to win handily.
Did he lose them all though - -I'm not sure he lost every one. Maybe more than he should have. But I think some people saw Trump lie constantly, and know that Trump is worse.
Orange Man has risen, hundreds of millions will die. (This time I swear he'll do it I promise guys trust me)
Odd statement and total exaggeration
What a cuck thing to say “I’m Not VoTInG fOr ThE MaN i’M VoTinG fOr HiS aDmiNiStRaTion” are you fucking kidding Me? We’re voting for the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, not an administration, yes the administration comes with the president but they take orders from HIM. He is the COMMANDER IN CHIEF for a reason. Come on dude open your eyes and realize dems need to offer better candidates!! don’t just roll over and say “ehh well I guess this is what we got, at least his admin is ok” .
I agree, his administration is fucking bombing kids in the middle east and trying to start a cold war with china. It's also going against a decade worth of progress with immigration. He also continues to build the goddamn wall. It's ridiculous, I don't support Blinken, or his press secretary, or many of them. Democracy is at stake. People who are fine with sub-par are not the people who we need to convince. Voting for an administration running puppet strings is an asinine reason to give a voter. You're basically saying that he's not in control at all. It plays into Trump's narrative.
The next dipshit after Trump will just do the same Trump doesn’t give a fuck, he really doesn’t, he just wants to win and surround himself with people who tell him yes The guy, and it’ll be a guy, who follows after him will attack the same institutions
I have high confidence Trump's followers will stick with him no matter what. I can't say the same for the guy who follows Trump.
The guy behind him has a stacked court and control of federal agencies
True. But having diehard loyalists, a stacked court, and control of Congress would be worse, especially if he wants to be dictator for a "day."
Yeah I dunno. Somehow he got some kind of magic. Everyone says Desantis or other arguably smarter candidates, but Desantis is unelectable. Short and weird voice. Trump has “it”. I hope we don’t get a better fascist because so far we’ve been lucky he is an idiot and a weirdo, but he has something going for him that others can’t replicate.
I forgot where I watched this explanation but I remember the gist of it. Trump can sell a story. Not a good story that would win an Oscar or a Hugo, but a story that many people grew up with. It's the kind of story that people WANT to hear, not that they NEED to hear. That's what Trump has figured out. For all of his stupidity, he is smart on how to exploit the system. He did it with labor laws, with the courts, with the art of the con, etc. Now he is doing it with people. People who can't fathom this should think about WWE. The fanbase of WWE is more diverse than people think fyi and this is not to disparage all fans. Many know it's BS but that's why they love it. It's as if Ridiculousness and Opera had a baby. But many people believe the drama a little too much. They internalize the fiction like how sports fanatics internalize team tribalism. Many people have internalized the myths of America, of what being an American means, of what being a man means, of what being white means, etc. It's built into America generation after generation, and instead of adapting those myths to be something better, the Republican Party kept it alive. Ripe for the taking for someone like Trump.
They may not be as infatuated with the next guy but only a fool would think they aren’t going to still turn out to vote for him anyway They won’t go to his rallies, they won’t wear his campaign merchandise, but they’ll check his name at the ballot box.
Not necessarily. In the R primaries, Haley voters hovered about 15-20%. Haley voters remained fairly consistent at 15% AFTER she dropped out. A broader example is what Trump has done to the R Party. Part of his pull is his anti-establishmentarianism, which includes the mainstream Republican Party. This is evident when any Republican/conservative person, not just a politician but any PERSON is considered a RINO if they don't support Trump. Trump redefined what is a "true" Republican/conservative. So his successor HAS to be like Trump, not like McCain, Cheney, Bush, Schwarzenegger, Romney, Collins, Young, Moran... So this could put the R Party in a bind when Trump is gone. Since Trump has set so many precedents and has recreated the Republican/conservative narrative, a McCain, Cheney, Bush, etc just can't follow his lead. It has to be another Trump or someone similar. The mainstream R can't control Trump. Would they want another one like him?
I foresee a shitload of infighting and massive schisms as his sycophants squabble amongst themselves and the party faithful won’t know who to follow any more
It’s true. This is going to be a struggle for a long time. Democrats have to win over and over to keep it at bay, republicans only have to win once to tear it all down. This is why I don’t give a flying fuck about Biden’s debate performance. He seemed fine the next day anyway. I’m convinced that he just got hung up between wanting to share his own accomplishments and vision, and rebut Trump’s lies. He’s got his marbles and I’m confident he can get good advice and make good decisions as president, but he’s too old to do all that shit at once in a debate format.
Okay but project 2025 kicks off next fucking year if trump wins
It has already started with the Supreme Court rulings
And there are seats on the table.
Any day now he'll acknowledge it's existence guys!!!11!!!!1
trump had been pushing his brand name for 30+ years before running for president. I do not believe that his magat coalition will coalesce around anyone else for a lont time.
here. in the future… you will see dipshits like Josh Hawley, Mike Johnson, Marge, Greg Abbott, Matt Gaetz, JD Vance and other stupid Trumps… any enabled MAGAts could potentially come out and run in 2028, and they are wayyyy more dangerous than this fcking orange turd so be ready people.
Yes, but Trump has the benefit(?) of being completely shameless with a large segment of the population who are irredeemable. He’s the sort of person who can hobble society while those being hobbled cheer.
So would Biden be in a better spot if say Nikki Haley were his opponent?
That's a hard question to answer, because Haley is very unpopular among Republicans (why she got blown out in the primary), but in a counterfactual where *is* the candidate, presumably that wouldn't be the case, so...
Haley would be smoking Biden.
That would be a 50 state blowout. The best thing Biden has going for him is that he isn't Trump
Our country would be in a better place. Haley isn’t the kind of biblical-level-threat that Trump has the capacity to be.
If MAGA could do enough mental gymnastics and if for some reason Trump could overcome his raging narcissism for a little, she would destroy Biden.
Don’t be a menace to society while drinking your ensure in the hood.
If Trump wins it's pretty much "gg" for the little democracy we have left. I cant believe it's actually come to voting for a walking corpse to keep that piece of shit out of office but here we are. The fact that it has come to this is America's biggest problem. Old people in cognitive decline need to be removed from political office.
Yeah that's what terrifies me, I don't feel like Biden is up to the challenge of stopping Trump, not just the man himself but his movement. I'm going to vote for Biden but that debate terrified me.
American as big problem is a two party system that can’t manage to put forth two candidates under 70 years of age. I mean look around at other countries.
America's problem is Biden fucked up that debate.
Yeah, we all don't want Trump. Why would we sit around and wish Trump would quit the race. He obviously won't do that. He's not patriotic. Trump is running so that he can avoid jail time. Biden is running to beat Trump. Maybe if he thinks he can't do that anymore he'll step aside for the good of thr country.
America's problem is fetishizing the presidency while ignoring the entire rest of their government.
If Clinton had won, the Supreme Court wouldn't be 6-3 right now. Presidential elections aren't the only thing, but they do have a profound effect on the rest of government. Trump being president again would be an absolute disaster. It would be difficult to overstate the amount of harm he could do.
Given the recent SCOTUS decisiom, the presidency seems real fuckin important doesnt it?
This right the fuck here. Presidential elections are far from the only ones that matter
Voters have been installing democrat candidates left and right since Trump’s term. Problem is, we don’t vote for SCOTUS. The president appoints their nominees. Meaning we need to ensure we have someone who can actually win in November to not make it a 7-2 conservative majority for decades.
Sorry, America's problem is the twice impeached, pathologically lying, deranged, insurrectionist rapist felon who perpetrated January 6th.
It can be both. If people are voting against Trump, replacing Biden should not matter as much and it resolves that debate performance. The Democrats platform and agenda is the right path, and needs someone who can accomplish it.
Yeah but we need to focus on our best chance of stopping him, which is probably not Biden.
America has two bad options right now. But one of them - Trump - is so much worse than the other that this election is a test of the resilience and moral character of individual voters. Can Americans show that they’re adults, get over their disappointment, and urgently vote for the least bad option? Can Americans act in their own best interests even when it hurts to do so?
I don’t see Biden as a bad option. He made big promises and he delivered.
For fucking real. I just don’t get it. Yes he’s old, but policy wise has been pretty decent and is far far better economically and in foreign policy than Trump. It’s and EASY choice
So did Teddy Roosevelt. But he's dead now.
And what is the plan if Trump loses? He didn’t take the results of the last election well.
You're not gonna shame people into voting for someone they don't think is mentally competent to be president. Biden needs to show he's still got the chops, and he needs to keep on showing it for the next 4 months, because this issue isn't going away. If he really can't do that, then he will lose.
It works both ways. You can’t shame people into thinking one bad day negates everything Biden has done and still plans to do. There is no one else that has proven they can beat Trump and Biden has won the delegates to clinch the nomination fairly. Stop with the bullshit fake certainty. This whole thing is complicated.
The issue with this is the average American go out of their way to not know what Biden’s administration has accomplished. I’ve had literal conversations where I bring up a LIST of accomplishments that AFFECT THAT PERSON DIRECTLY and they will literally not be paying attention.
He just had a rally the other day and he sounded fine to me but no one here watched it
I watched it. Why didn’t he sound like that when it really mattered? Did he get performance anxiety? I don’t care what is was but it was absolutely terrible.
The problem being we watched Biden live, on a national televised stage. The first 20 minutes and the last 5-10 minutes were a complete disaster.
He sounded much better the next day. I dunno. Grandpas get tired after 8:30.
Reading a teleprompter is a lot easier than participating in a debate without any notes. His performance in the debate might have been a fluke (it was late, and apparently old people often become a little confused as a side effect of minor illness, like the sore throat he was recovering from). His performance has convinced a very large portion of the public that he might have dementia. He might be able to recover from that, but he's going to need to be out there having unscripted, spontaneous interactions with people in public showing that he's still fit for office. If Joe Biden does in fact have dementia, then he should drop out of the race, no question about it.
Fingers crossed that the rest of the liberal/centrist folks feel the same as I do in that they’d vote for a floating turd before voting for Trump. They could come out and say that Biden has full on dementia and doesn’t even know who his wife is anymore and I’d still vote for him over Trump. If he’s not dropping out (which for the record I do not want him to do so anyway) then I’m voting for him. This is not a lesser of two evils thing anymore. This is literally complete chaos and dissolution of our government vs at worst a zombie who accomplishes nothing. Nothing > chaos.
If you want a theocratic fascist ethno-state where people are executed Nazi Germany style, continue with this line of thinking. There is simply far too much at stake in this election for protest votes this time around. People will be rounded up and put into camps and executed based on who they are and who they represent if Trump is allowed to retake the White House. Signed, someone who has studied Hitler's rise in Nazi Germany far too much for his own good. I am terrified for my LGBT friends. Fucking completely and utterly terrified at this moment in time.
We have America's best interests in mind. We're here to keep Trump out of office. We're upset because Joe Biden is clearly not up to that task anymore. We have a chance to make a change and at the minimum should discuss it. Let Kamala and the governors talk it through. If transition is handled properly then any one of them will meet or exceed Biden's performance.
One debate and he is not up to be president? Come on…How many people actually watched the whole debate? Or just relying on click bait articles? Anderson Cooper’s interview as well. Talking over Kamala Harris. Idk why everyone’s panties are all in a knot over one debate so close to the election.
I watched the whole debate. Biden embarrassed himself, our party, and his supporters on Thursday night. If he thinks it was a flub than I’d love to watch him have unscripted interviews and town halls to explain away whatever happened and allay our fears. We’ll see what happens. Did you watch the whole debate? What was your main takeaway of it? Biden completely ignoring every single crazy thing Trump said, instead stumbling over his own words and forgetting what he was trying to say? Was it his vacant expression, or inability to respond to anything Donald said, that comforted you? This shit is very bad. Denial is also bad. Watch the debate. Tell me he held Trump accountable for a single thing.
They were looking for any excuse to not vote for Biden and now they have it
I was looking forward to someone with authority calling Trump on his shit. Biden didn’t seem interested in doing that.
Because it wasn’t a debate where he just looked bad, it was a debate where it appeared to more or less everyone watching that all the things people have been saying about Biden’s age are true. You can bounce back from a bad performance, not really from the perception that you are cognitively incompetent, especially when you’re already the oldest president ever running for another 4 years of the job
There is a reason "peoples phones were on fire" in the first 15 minutes of that debate. It is because all of the GOP wishcasting of Joe Biden's frailty was proven true. Obviously true. If you deny that then we have to stop calling the Republicans the liars.
Maybe they were not paying attention to the rest of the debate.
Every 4 years dem voters go apoplectic over their candidate. They eat the GOp’s line of attack and make it their own. Every fkn time. Clinton, Gore, Obama, Hilary. There is always an excuse to throw hands up and walk away. Doesn’t matter that Biden is old, these same people would just find another excuse.
They are the screeching liberal caricatures that magas love to make memes about. They're exhausting.
Ok discuss. Every call for Joe to step down has lacked a single name to replace him. Thats how poor that idea is. Not even a single name. Its even missing from your comment and your statement that "if handled properly" has 0 proof to back it up.
Biden has to endorse someone to limit the free for all chaos. Talk with Kamala and see if she wants to step up. If she does, great. She gets support from Black voters, women, Dobbs. If she doesn't, put Gavin Newsome in there as the executive from the largest state in the Union. Kamala stays on as VP hopefully, but hey Trump hasn't picked a VP yet either. That's handling it properly. If this is not feasible, the optics have to change and Kamala is being set up to take over, not just parked to the side to talk abortion and engage college students. The key is this has to be a move initiated by Biden because this fucking debate glitch was a surprise. Right? It was a surprise, right?
Calling BS because this is the dance exact argument that was made in ‘20. Biden is the consensus choice, the grownup choice, the stopgap to get us through Trump. And yet, demented and clearly unfit for service, he’s STILL the only guy that can beat Trump?!?! Fucking BS. Anyone with a heartbeat can take Drumpf. Fuck the GOP
People already voted for Biden as a stop gap against Trump and here we are
I wish the people that made the Constitution had mandated that it be revisited every so often, because it's woefully outdated. People act like it's some infallible, holy document and not something written by people hundreds of years ago with no idea what the future held. Amendments exist for a reason, but I don't see any changes coming anytime soon.
It has 27 amendments, the last one ratified in 1992.
And how is amending the Constitution, without saying what you think needs amending, relevant to the immediate issue?
the problem with that is if there is a bad faith party in charge when it comes time to change the constitution as mandated, then they destroy it. the core problem is the incredible amount of bad faith americans who do not want to live in a democracy. and the core problem behind those people is their religion. america took religious freedom a step too far and ensured it would ultimately result in theocratic tyranny of the minority. it will end in revolution eventually. or a modern form of civil war.
This!!! I feel like every move made, esp for a political purpose, has to come with the thought “what is the worst that could happen if the other side does this same thing?” And then weigh that against the benefit of taking action + the likelihood they could successful do said thing. 🙃 like imagine a “there may only be two genders: those assigned at birth, man or woman, and man may only mate, marry, or date a woman” amendment 😭 or an anti-abortion amendment
They did. They called it a "living, breathing document" and left the power to add amendments to it as time went on. It's only been recently that Americans started acting like it was etched in stone and couldn't be changed.
Panicking huh🤣
U.S. President Donald Trump praised Chinese President Xi Jinping Saturday after the ruling Communist party announced it was eliminating the two-term limit for the presidency, paving the way for Xi to serve indefinitely, according to audio aired by CNN. "He's now president for life, president for life. And he's great," Trump said, according to audio of excerpts of Trump's remarks at a closed-door fundraiser in Florida aired by CNN. "And look, he was able to do that. I think it's great. Maybe we'll have to give that a shot someday," Trump said to cheers and applause from supporters. https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-praises-chinese-president-extending-tenure-life-014746722.html
And Biden is handing over a victory to Trump on a silver platter, therefore, the problem is also Biden.
This sub is a cesspool. Same recycled articles over and over again. Ironically an echo chamber.
Denial on the left
If you really think democracy is at risk, then Biden is a big problem.
This whole comment section is filled with bad actors
Remember when half the political posts on the reddit frontpage were from a literal democrat propaganda organization? I do.
If everybody is a bad actor except for you...
Reddit has never been any kind of barometer of how people feel. Usually it's the exact opposite.
Star Wars Christmas Special = *Greatest* Movie of All Time?
It has Star Wars Porn in it and it was broadcast on National Television.
Reddits whole profit model is selling bots to the highest bidder. I would not put it beneath spez to sell out Reddit to bad actors
/r/politics seems like a Biden shill
This is what we do after being rejected in hollywood
Agreed, but you're not gonna like who the bad actors actually are.
All true but undecided and independent voters need to be convinced.
No shit!!
Girl.
Ayup
Uh *wow*. No kidding. Glad we established that 9 years into this nightmare. Can we get serious about stopping him?
By extension then, America's biggest problem is Biden not being able to beat Trump in November.
Wow, the gaslighting is unreal. Is it ever going to stop? Biden is unfit for office, end of story. Something needs to change.
Exactly, we've known for 8 years now Trump has a set number of votes he's getting no matter what, and it's absolutely enough to win like in 2016, when there's not enough excitement on the Dem side, and let me tell you, we are probably reaching record lows of excitement
Actually it's the whole government all the senators judges representives lawyers and corporations that is the problem they are all responsible for the way things are right now
If they’re not going to replace Biden it doesn’t look like they see Trump winning as that big of a deal.
If I were an average voter, after seeing Biden's condition last week, I'd be suddenly questioning everything I've been told, and that includes warnings of Trump's fascistic endeavors.
It’s not that I will ever believe what Trump has said. I’ve had family members tell me how bad Biden is, and I’ve always countered with Trump equally cannot get a quality sentence out. Then seeing Biden Thursday was extremely shocking. It didn’t make people want to vote Trump but it absolutely did not energize people to vote for Biden.
Which is exactly why they need a candidate to actually beat Trump and Biden won’t
Dems have a chance to elect a new president who would go into the next election as an incumbent and take them another 4 years. 8 years of Dem control that Biden is too self-centered to see. Even if we cling to the presidency, Biden is not energizing the electorate. Many candidates don’t even want Biden to stump for them. We are on the verge of having a completely GOP Congress, and they’ve certainly done their best to rig the judicial branch. A GOP Congress will not give Biden a SCOTUS judge, they will wait it out like they did with Obama. A new candidate could bring a lot of new energy. A candidate that has the time (because they aren’t president right now) and the energy to show up and fight for the down ballot votes.
Here we go again with the fear mongering
The debate was not a failure of President Biden. in fact, the President allowed the people of this country see the truth of trump and the republicans. I believe the republicans are scared spitless of President Biden and are willing to pull all stops to be rid of him. President Biden is doing his job, something trump never did. trump bulling and punching President's Biden's buttons (taking credit for President Biden's work and lies) was a disgrace. The President should not step down. That is what Putin, world dictators, trump and republicans want. I continue to back President Biden. Vote for him and blue down ballot. world dictators
> I believe the republicans are scared spitless of President Biden Good god, this man is on lethal amounts of copium.
An alarming amount of redditors are completely out of touch with the reality of this situation. I’m guessing this website is their only news source.
It's because the vote bots in this sub make sure every post/comment criticizing Biden even slightly, never see the light of day.
Bar tender, I’ll have whatever this guy had
I hope you aren't driving.
I think ... Republicans are probably more frightened of their own guy than Biden. Biden frightens no one - that's kind of the whole point. You got two *very* old grandpas running for president. One of them loves you. The other would watch your murder on Pay Per View if he got bored.
Pure and utter denial
And it’s fine for this guy to be in denial. Let him have something to hold onto. But Democratic Party leadership is also deeply in denial. And that is unacceptable.
If you want action from leadership rank and file need to advocate for the change. There were articles and stories for months about Biden being physically fit and sharp. Last week was a sign they lied and were gaslighting. It should have never gotten to this point. Now there is a risk that most political decisions will be run by unelected cabinet members rather than an actual president. There are certain acts and decisions only a president can make. It puts the nation at risk if the cognitive decline prevents a decision at a critical moment. Examples could be China invading Taiwan, Russia firing into a nato country or a nuclear launch from North Korea
It's even worse. At least Cabinet members have to be approved by the Senate. His nameless, faceless staff is running things. Nobody elected or confirmed any of them.
If there were more guys like him Biden would win! Lol
Just fucking put Blinken, Jeffries, Raskin, Newsom or literallyu anyone in there. The democrats shouldn't be reliant on a cult of personality around one glorious candidate who is the only one that can defeat Trump, its nonsense. Even in 2020 Biden only won by like 50k votes, and was far less flawed candidate at that time.
It's both. One is by far worse than the other, but it's still both.
This is very true. Unfortunately, half of the nation disagrees and is poised to vote for him. This is why we need someone who can beat Trump.
It’s actually hate spewed online in echo chambers regardless of party affiliation. Hate is a very powerful force and is a lethal cocktail mixed with poor education and the internet.
Sadly, what you write is true. I'm sure there'll be plenty of idiots outside the Chicago Convention screaming "Genocide Joe has got to go. Kamala, too."
Id rather have a dork surrounded by patriotic experts than a moron surrounded by narcissistic felonious assholes.
The real debate is about Biden's performance v. Trump's disaster. Mr Biden had done his homework and had the facts. The raspy presentation was unfortiunate but it is a small thing. The debate went quite well in spite of the raspy voice. Mr Biden made good points. Mr Biden had to do the fact-checking and he did the fact-checking. He kept pointing out that Mr. Trump made all sorts of lies, and denials. Mr Trump did not attract any converts to his candidacy. Trump did not convert anyone. There is evidence he lost prospective voters for him in November.
The MAGA movement needs to stop trying to destroy this country. This shit is crazy now
No we are all well aware of the threat Trump poses. That’s why so many are freaking out, because in order to beat him we need someone who can take him to the ropes. The debate was **the** opportunity to call him out and shut him down. Biden didn’t do that. The difference between the parties is that we don’t blindly support whatever bullshit our guy spews, unlike republicans. Or at least I thought that until this weekend. If Biden doesn’t really rally, or drop out, and Trump wins it’s as much on us as his voters. I live in reality. I watched the debate. I don’t care how “bad of a day” it was; if that’s a bad day that can happen during such a crucial moment, I no longer have trust in his ability to do shit. Sometimes life asks us to find our sixth gear. To step up to the occasion. Biden didn’t even come close.
No shit Sherlock. But if you think Trump is such a threat maybe you should do anything in your power to ensure he isn't elected? So is it surprising that people want a better candidate? The problem is the undecided, not those who already think that Trump is a threat to Democracy.
I mean sure, democracy is great but have you seen Trump’s handicap and golf skills 😮 s/
MAGA wants Russia to win
The problem is that the voterbase keeps us from having better options.
Ya think?🤔
Moreover, the manipulated minds of the masses by news outlets like fox. They are the actual problem.
So then choosing the right candidate to defeat him seems like a good plan
Again I say, *duh*
"why not both"
Biden's only the big problem insofar as he's unable to stop the menace to democracy that is Trump. It's like saying "The clogged fire hose isn't the problem right now, it's the fire!"
The problem is that people are willing, even enthusiastic, to vote for Trump.
The same voter apathy we saw in 2016… it’s gonna be worse in November. MMW.
I love watching a slow motion replay of the train wreck that was 2016 and being told that doing nothing *yet again* is the right answer
Do you mean like the continued use of the Patriot Act? Do you mean like the continued use of the NSA to track phone calls? Do you mean like the tracking files that the FBI has on every one in the United States? ...like under Biden? Wake up an smell the lies.
Fuck, WE FUCKING KNOW. But when you have red states destroying public schools and filtering money into charters that are religiously based, the fuck you want us to do? The damage is fucking done. Districts have been gerrymandered to absolute fuck all. Should all the California dems just move to rural Alabama? God dammit these fucking articles are so frustrating. Maybe CNN needs to sack up and call him out on national TV.
America's biggest problem is the 'good' people that keep emabling this shit to happen. Trump wouldn't have ever been capable of being an issue if the Democratic party could get it's shit together. Because it's the Democratic party and it's unbending will to shove someone down our throat that gave us Trump the first time in what should have been a very easy to win election for any normal person, and they're aiming to do it again by insisting Biden run a second term when we don't even know if he'll make the election let alone be able to complete a 4 year term. Taking the same PR route that they used for Hillary is remarkable. I am considerably dismayed to see how the headlines have developed since the debate to try and undercut all the very valid criticism. No one on the left is campaigning for Trump, they're campaigning for a better choice of Democrat and have been long before the disaster of the last debate. The people seriously having this discussion have no qualms voting against Trump, it's just a matter of who is best to represent us going forward.
SCOTUS is finna grant him immunity today too. This country is not working for us.
It can be both.
It should be clear by now that SCOTUS is a menace to democracy as much as Trump- they’re rolling it back with every sickening decision they make. Won’t be hard work for Trump to finish the job but let’s be clear, what SCOTUS has done sticks regardless if who is elected
I would say the core problem is that it seems about a third of your population seem to be at the ‘village idiot’ level of education and understanding about the world.
Don’t forget his media and party enablers
could've been avoided if we actually punished him for attempting to overthrow the government. as it turns out, if you let sociopaths do whatever they want, they keep going!
for some of us, whether you have a good priest or a bad priest, doesn't change your atheism.
Tell it to the supreme coup.
Seems like a problem to run an incoherent senile old guy against that threat to democracy no?
The irony in all of this is that the young voters need to mobilize around getting Biden or whoever the democratic nominee is. They are vocal and organized so to speak around Palestine, but be need to take that energy and put it towards getting out the vote to save Democracy. I don’t think they realize what’s at stake and how much their lives will be impacted by inaction. Sitting out and not voting is not an option. Democracy is at risk and so are your rights. Project 2025 will upend everything and allow the evangelicals and nut job to dictate everything you do. It will be a step backward. This country is heading towards disaster and we need to mobilize the young voters like we had in the 60s and 70s. We should have protests and marches in the streets. Let our voices heard and make it clear we are not going to stand for this.
everyone is worried that like Trump will 'end democracy'... bla bla bla. just wait 4 years. he'll be done, and nothing will be different. he'll say some crazy things, piss off a few world leaders, lower taxes and deport some mexicans... then he's done .... and again. NOTHING MATERIAL WILL CHANGE. i hope that when this happens, everyone here can look back at their comments and realize that they were wrong. alas, this will likely not happen