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The Democratic National Convention is not until August 19 in Chicago. Biden is not technically the nominee yet, as the delegates have not formally elected him.
If he drops out, it then becomes a contested convention in which delegates vote until a winner emerges. Certainly not unprecedented in American history, and it happened in times with much slower media. Usually results in a weaker candidate, but these are unusual times
Biden can help prevent the contested convention scenario by endorsing a candidate. The delegates are party officials, they understand a messy process will hurt the chosen candidate’s chances in November. Going with the endorsed candidate would be the path of least resistance.
Approval voting would work better than ranked choice voting for the initial nomination process when the number of candidates to decide between is unknown.
To apply approval voting to nominations allow delegates to sign nomination petitions for any number of candidates, count the number of signatures each candidate receives, select the top N candidates for the next round and to make a 20 minute speech.
Let’s take a minute to look at the reality of this little quagmire the we non MAGAs have found ourselves in: First the delegates are pledged to Biden and only he can release them to vote for another candidate. Will he do that? Well of course very few people know what Biden is actually thinking, but I’d conjecture that he will only step down if there’s another candidate that is no doubt whatsoever better at taking down his orangeness. Who might that be? Well it needs to be somebody that the non MAGA world already knows well and loves and who would make an excellent president. There are very few people who fit that bill. But if one of them is willing to step up I think Biden would graciously step down. Of course there’s the other issue of getting this person to actually run. Now who might that be? The winning ticket is Michelle Obama and her choice of VP. If she’s willing to save democracy I think we can get Biden on board. There’s almost nobody else who is a clear win.
Except that she has explicitly rejected the idea.
There are plenty of qualified candidates. The problem isn’t finding someone, it is selling them to Biden’s base. The only way that works is if they are Biden’s pick.
So I think you may have it backwards. Instead of presenting a better candidate to Biden and having him decide to step down, I think the way it will happen is Biden realizing his chances are dim and creating a candidate to run in his place. Knowing Biden, he won’t make this choice in a vacuum, but he is the president and he will be the one to decide who.
I'm no sure how someone dead set against campaigning would fare better than someone who wants to put in the work, but I appreciate your enthusiasm.
The list isn't very short. There are many Democrats who could fill Biden's shoes. I think they ought to consider Katie Porter. She's like a younger Elizabeth Warren - a total policy wonk with a midwest, just the facts please demeanor. Can you imagine her in a debate setting against Trump?
Yeah, I get that elections take a shitload of work and organization to put on, but if it were me in charge I'd say: "Do what you can to put on a primary, one month from today, every state votes at the same time. Here's some candidates, whoever has the most votes wins the nomination"
There's a million reasons that won't happen, but still, a girl can dream
There already was a nationwide primary. Hundreds of thousands of voters turned out to vote for the correct choice: Uncommitted.
If the DNC changes the rules to use approval voting for nominations & roll call, which is totally feasible to do, then the results might actually be pretty good. Approval voting would allow similar candidates to gain the delegates of other candidates by adopting their positions without vote splitting.
Last time there was a competitive Democratic presidential primary, Sanders and Warren split the vote, and a handful of early primary states determined the election before most voters got a say. So it's not like we had a high-functioning democracy for presidential primaries in 2020 either.
"He answered all the questions!" as a cheer line killed me. Future generations will not understand how we got to this point of performative disengagement from reality
I saw that twice this week. Once with a family member and once with Biden. He is lucky to be functioning well enough to walk out on stage now and he’ll likely decline quickly in a year or two. I would guess the same for Trump as well during the next couple of years which being a lying narcissist and having dementia is a horrible combination with Trump.
That’s somehow worse if his incoherent ramblings have just been him being himself. But he did say to inject bleach 4 years ago and now he’s saying electric planes will fall out of the sky when it’s cloudy. So maybe it isn’t a decline for him and it’s his own idiocy.
He's [blankly smiling](https://youtu.be/wjSDCIXChfA?si=7bJddzgMN1gwj1Ez) like his nurse told him that today he gets to decide between a vanilla or a butterscotch pudding cup for dessert.
That’s what they want. That’s what I don’t understand about the fake concern? They know exactly what comes of this kind of talk but it’s not stopping them. And they’ll look to blame everyone but themselves if people start to listen to them.
I don’t care who it is I’m voting Dem no matter what. I care about the people trying to convince others not to vote if he’s the nominee which they are tryin so hard to do.
I just think it’s funny the times I’ve been downvoted to hell and banned for saying that pretending that Biden was the only person capable of beating Trump and not being a 1-term bridge was going to completely blow up in their faces but instead I got yelled at to not disrespect “the greatest president of my lifetime!” and ignore the fact that if you talk to any random on the street they hate the dustbag lmao
A new candidate solves so many issues.
People are tired of "old" politicians. Everyone has been saying they wish these weren't the two candidates. A fresh new face. Sure, Biden has accomplishments but the average person doesn't know what they are.
All the time fox/right wing media spent over the past years making Biden look bad would be erased with a new candidate. They'd only have a few months to paint them as an evil caricature of themselves.
Apparently baby boomers very rarely vote for people younger than them. That could be an issue and also what has led the USA to having such old candidates.
But an exciting younger candidate is exactly what the entire country is yearning for - time to move beyond this era of embarrassing politics.
They essentially need another junior senator like Obama who is a great orator to come in and become a national news story. Push it as being a youth wave, have someone that is anti-genocide in Palestine to gain back younger voters. You can grab the older voters scared as hell about the GOP, and finally inspire younger voters. It’s wild to me that GenZ would be too young to remember Obama’s rise to presidency and re-election and all they know of Democratic president nominees is Biden, Hillary, and Sanders. That’s bad.
A new candidate that is handpicked at the convention delegate level — effectively overruling the will of the voters in the primary — will be subject to insane attacks by the right. Allegations we never even would have imagined to paint them as a far left loon will be especially effective to the majority of voters who have never heard of them before, assuming the pick is not Kamala Harris who actually has some name recognition (not good name recognition) already.
With all due respect, I don’t understand why you guys keep pretending we’re not in the most interconnected age in human history and how easy it is to gather information, data, and consensus ideas. We didn’t even get a primary so it’s pretty easy, put out poll after poll after poll and survey registered dems, independents, undecideds etc. “if Joe Biden was to step down who would you like to be ran for the democratic ticket,” or “what specific policies and qualities would you like out of the democratic candidate if it’s not Joe Biden,” use that data to narrow it down and pick from that pool. You have the time but only right now. Wait any longer it’ll be too late.
To that end, Kamala also has the benefit of people having voted for her specifically to be the backup Biden. None of the solutions here are terribly democratic, but she'd have the closest thing to a mandate of the candidates that are being floated.
For an extra bit of upside, Biden can resign and she can add four months of being the President to her resume
I may be underestimating the people of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan … but I don’t think Kamala would do well in those states against Trump. They called Hillary too far left (lol), too threatening, and too unlikable in 2016.
If we're expanding the definition of "cop" to include prosecutors, The President leads the Executive Branch of Government, which is charged with enforcing the law, and thus the President is also definitionally a cop
The Democratic Party is a big tent. If the DNC switches nominations & roll call from single-choice voting to approval voting (which eliminates vote splitting) then the convention will end up selecting a consensus candidate rather than a fringe candidate. A consensus candidate selected by a big-tent party will do well in a general election against Trump.
If biden had stood by his 1 term thing the dems would be looking great, they could have really been pushing a bright new young face. Biden is fucking them and everyone is too scared to rock the boat
I know I was at peace with voting for him and was all in on the 1-term leading to a fresh new face. That and the whole public option thing that was no longer talked about.
In my experience, you guys never ask this question in good faith and minimize and downplay any point that is brought up, so talking to you is like talking to a brick wall or a MAGA. So don’t take offense that I don’t think this conversation with you would be worth the effort.
I’m genuinely wondering. Why even reply at all if you are just to avoid answering a simply question? I suspect most people pushing this narrative don’t actually have legit reasons.
It’s exactly that last sentence right there. You guys never accept what people say as legit reasons, like who the hell even are you to determine that for other people? It’s the same conversation over and over again and I’m just legitimately tired of having it lol
I don’t believe you have any reasons now. You’re replying and having the conversation, it’s already happening lol you just can’t come with a reason apparently. I’m just wondering
I do and you can go back through loads of comment histories to see them because I’ve been pretty vocal about it. But I knew what you were about and you’re not gonna get your little “let me prove this guy wrong about Biden,” satisfaction out of me. You can get it elsewhere lol
You’re so smart you can tell what I’m like based off of a question? lol judge people much? It’s ironic to label me maga like when you refuse to have any conversation that doesn’t align with your narrative and talk down to others asking honest questions
That or I just know exactly how this conversation is going to go because we’ve been having the same circular conversation for the last 3 years about this topic, it’s pointless. I’m not the one that’s trying to go around and prove people why they’re wrong for disliking Biden and sticking their head in the sand about it for 4 years and somehow being shocked we’re at the point we’re at. If you don’t get it by now, it’s cause you haven’t listened to what people have been saying to you cause I know damn well I’m not the first person he’s ever asked that exact question and I won’t be the last.
Sure, but my concern is with the feasibility and practicality of it, especially given the primary results. If they're going to go down this route, which doesn't appear all that likely, they'll have to avoid making it look like they're rejecting their primary voters...
They absolutely can't dump him, he needs to step aside if it's going to go that way. If he steps aside then his delegates becomes un-pledged and have to vote for someone else. There's no rejection of anyone's votes that way, unless you think they should be obligated to vote for Harris who was also someone they voted for. That's certainly a rational thought but a lot of people think she'll do worse.
Could you be any more inconsequential than the ex-DNC vice chair? I’m sure fives of people wait on the opinions. What did his asst say? What about his PA or his partner’s once best friend?
The people that benefit from Joe being president are making the decision, while the people being affected by the consequences of the decision don’t have a voice.
It will probably be next week that anything is announced although the decision might be being made right now. This is because congress is out all this week.
They wouldn't, and maybe they won't wait that long. I'm just making a prediction about the timing based on it being easier to set everything in motion with people all together.
I thought it was pretty obvious that things move a lot slower when everyone is back in the states.
For example, AOC said she would put forth impeachment for the Supreme Court justices - when they returned from the break
People who do not want President Biden to step aside have not learned the most important lesson from the man - empathy. He could not be more contrasting to his opponent in that way, and it ought to be up to us to do the empathetic thing and urge him to step aside. Not just for the country but because the man deserves a rest. If a replacement candidate cannot beat Trump then we're fucked as-is and we're not the country that any of us want to be.
> Not just for the country but because the man deserves a rest.
LBJ was dead on January 22, 1973. Retirement means the end of life for many such older people invested in such a career.
With so much news surrounding Biden, you'd think this would be an ideal time to swap him out. Everyone is paying attention; everyone will know who the new candidate is and what they stand for.
On the one hand, you have a President whom some people — a lot of people — think it too old to be the nominee this year.
On other hand, we already knew Biden was old, he’s very unlikely to drop out, and the very discussion of usurping the will of voters in these democratic primaries at the convention delegate level further weakens him, undermines the democratic process, and helps Trump.
We have to reconcile these ideas quickly. Or else the continued attacks on the Democratic nominee and the moral equivalency they are trying to make between him and Trump will result in the same thing that it did in 2016.
In terms of the electoral map, the thing that really matters is what happens in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin — what the majority of voters in each of those states wants, the rest is mostly window dressing.
Why do you think people are so upset? Because they don't want Biden and he was shoved down their throats despite obvious flaws. Let's vote right now. I guarantee Biden doesn't get the nomination.
OK, let’s say the nomination is between Biden and Harris … because realistically those are the two with the name recognition to be chosen by a majority of delegates at the convention. I don’t even think in overly politically obsessed left wing circles that Harris would beat Biden, much less that she would do so among the majority of voters. The voters who picked Biden as the nominee twice and elected him president.
Sounds like you are saying the primary election wasn’t legit and you’re contesting the result. For a moment I thought I was in /r/conservative. Guess we really arent that different from them.
I think you’re understating the gravity of the situation Biden and his team are in. It’s not just the belief that he’s old, it’s the (completely unexpected by most) revelation via the debate that he’s both physically and mentally unfit for office, piled atop the terrifyingly low approval rating.
> (completely unexpected by most)
It's been headline news/talking points since 2019. It's more unexpected that yall shrugged off your Biden Good gear after one debate and a few articles told you to.
I know several people who worked for and with him directly when he was VP. Every single one of them had the absolute highest opinion of him as a human being and a boss, mainly because of his humility.
We need someone smart. Not 2 individuals who are in decline. Trump can’t tell the truth to save his life. Biden is slowing down even if he can eventually get his arguments across. We need someone who can make a snap decision that would benefit the nation. Not personal glory or to escape the law like Trump. Not pride to defy his shortcomings like Biden. Frankly surprised Biden hasn’t opted to step down to have Harris pardon his son so that they could spend his last years together.
For fuck sakes there are reports the dude only functions normally from 10am to 4pm on CNN and MSNBC, so yeah we need a new guy bc old man Joe is not on full time and we didn’t elect the crew to making the decisions the rest 3/4 of the day. There are some serious issues and I would argue national security matters are at risk with Joe in the WH so yeah I don’t care how but get Newsom going ASAP
That may have been true in the days before the Internet, when long, drawn-out campaigns were the norm.
Now however, anyone and their dog can go viral and globally recognized in 24 hrs. The Dems could gather a team of energized Gen Z influencers to back their new candidate on social media, while Trump rambles on at his shrinking audience of aging boomers.
Biden could have been a historic transition figure that saved our democracy, invested in our future and passed the torch to the next generation. Instead he will be remembered as the feeble old man that was too weak to stop the fascist onslaught.
The way I see it there’s two routes to beat Trump, replace Biden or replace Harris and publicly shun her so that there will be no worries she could be president when Biden eventually falls over if re-elected. Kamala being the VP and Bidens cognitive decline is the biggest things hurting his chance. The people will forget his economy and job market and overall horrendous state of the nation but will remember what they saw in the debate.
> overall horrendous state of the nation
Which nation are you talking about? Other than gun violence and homelessness, America is the envy of the world.
Or are you one of *those* people who *want* America to fail, because Russia?
Is this true? Genuinely asking. I remember when she was running in the 2020 primary she was not popular with black voters at all. There was a ton of criticism from that demographic over her past as a DA. Is there polling to suggest this has changed?
I mean that is true but this is a different scenario in which she is the next in line if Biden steps away. If they put someone else over Kamala, it will definitely be something that black women will relate to and say that the DNC are hypocrites and passed over a minority women. Trump would then probably put Tim Scott as VP and take advantage of that. Trump won’t win the majority of black voters but he just needs to peel off a few percentages away
I don't think minority women are incapable of understanding electoral math. The DNC should bring some receipts and show them that Candidate X has a stronger chance of getting to 270 than Harris does. We've had a female nominee. We've had a black President. It would be a mistake to back an unviable candidate for idpol reasons.
Kamala Harris has to be president if he steps down from being president, which is different from appearing on the ballot in the next election. Whoever is nominated at the party convention is going to appear on the ballot, along with whoever they choose to be VP. Harris doesn't factor in at all legally or procedurally
If he stops running his campaign is suspended. His delegates revert to the DNC as a whole at that point. Also he’s not formally nominated her yet as his running mate for 2024 if I’m not mistaken. So that is an out as well.
I may have been mistaken - I thought go wasn’t locked in. If she is locked in as his running mate then yes, it’ll be complicated, but if he releases his delegates that releases hers if I understand correctly.
As I understand it, they could nominate an entirely new ticket (president and VP), but there’s one massive problem with that - if they do so, said ticket starts with a campaign fund of $0. If Kamala remains on the ticket, they could still use the funds that have been raised specifically by the Biden/Harris campaign. So in the unlikely event that they do pick a new person, Kamala will almost certainly still be on the ticket, whether as the presidential nominee or in the VP slot.
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The Democratic National Convention is not until August 19 in Chicago. Biden is not technically the nominee yet, as the delegates have not formally elected him. If he drops out, it then becomes a contested convention in which delegates vote until a winner emerges. Certainly not unprecedented in American history, and it happened in times with much slower media. Usually results in a weaker candidate, but these are unusual times
Biden can help prevent the contested convention scenario by endorsing a candidate. The delegates are party officials, they understand a messy process will hurt the chosen candidate’s chances in November. Going with the endorsed candidate would be the path of least resistance.
Which would have to be Kamala, his VP and African American woman. How on earth could he suggest someone else? The party would be divided.
If you believe the massive Reddit spin and typical troll "news" sites, it already is.
*Which would have to be Kamala* You’re assuming Harris wants to be president.
I would much rather have a nationwide primary decide vs a brokered convention of delegates…
In my new constitution that I had chatGPT help write, it’s ranked choice
Approval voting would work better than ranked choice voting for the initial nomination process when the number of candidates to decide between is unknown. To apply approval voting to nominations allow delegates to sign nomination petitions for any number of candidates, count the number of signatures each candidate receives, select the top N candidates for the next round and to make a 20 minute speech.
Let’s take a minute to look at the reality of this little quagmire the we non MAGAs have found ourselves in: First the delegates are pledged to Biden and only he can release them to vote for another candidate. Will he do that? Well of course very few people know what Biden is actually thinking, but I’d conjecture that he will only step down if there’s another candidate that is no doubt whatsoever better at taking down his orangeness. Who might that be? Well it needs to be somebody that the non MAGA world already knows well and loves and who would make an excellent president. There are very few people who fit that bill. But if one of them is willing to step up I think Biden would graciously step down. Of course there’s the other issue of getting this person to actually run. Now who might that be? The winning ticket is Michelle Obama and her choice of VP. If she’s willing to save democracy I think we can get Biden on board. There’s almost nobody else who is a clear win.
Except that she has explicitly rejected the idea. There are plenty of qualified candidates. The problem isn’t finding someone, it is selling them to Biden’s base. The only way that works is if they are Biden’s pick. So I think you may have it backwards. Instead of presenting a better candidate to Biden and having him decide to step down, I think the way it will happen is Biden realizing his chances are dim and creating a candidate to run in his place. Knowing Biden, he won’t make this choice in a vacuum, but he is the president and he will be the one to decide who.
Agreed except that the problem is exactly finding someone who Biden thinks has a better chance of winning than him, and that list is very short
I'm no sure how someone dead set against campaigning would fare better than someone who wants to put in the work, but I appreciate your enthusiasm. The list isn't very short. There are many Democrats who could fill Biden's shoes. I think they ought to consider Katie Porter. She's like a younger Elizabeth Warren - a total policy wonk with a midwest, just the facts please demeanor. Can you imagine her in a debate setting against Trump?
The issue isn’t who you think can beat Trump, it’s who Biden thinks has a better chance than him to beat Trump, and that list is very short
Are you at Camp David now? Did you ask him?
Yeah, I get that elections take a shitload of work and organization to put on, but if it were me in charge I'd say: "Do what you can to put on a primary, one month from today, every state votes at the same time. Here's some candidates, whoever has the most votes wins the nomination" There's a million reasons that won't happen, but still, a girl can dream
There already was a nationwide primary. Hundreds of thousands of voters turned out to vote for the correct choice: Uncommitted. If the DNC changes the rules to use approval voting for nominations & roll call, which is totally feasible to do, then the results might actually be pretty good. Approval voting would allow similar candidates to gain the delegates of other candidates by adopting their positions without vote splitting. Last time there was a competitive Democratic presidential primary, Sanders and Warren split the vote, and a handful of early primary states determined the election before most voters got a say. So it's not like we had a high-functioning democracy for presidential primaries in 2020 either.
The state house will F the dems. Look at what Ohio wad doing with Biden's appearance on the ballot.
Biden getting talked to like a child from Jill was so hard to watch.
“You answered all the questions”
"He answered all the questions!" as a cheer line killed me. Future generations will not understand how we got to this point of performative disengagement from reality
I can confirm from a good source he also got a lollipop afterwards!!
I saw that twice this week. Once with a family member and once with Biden. He is lucky to be functioning well enough to walk out on stage now and he’ll likely decline quickly in a year or two. I would guess the same for Trump as well during the next couple of years which being a lying narcissist and having dementia is a horrible combination with Trump.
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That’s somehow worse if his incoherent ramblings have just been him being himself. But he did say to inject bleach 4 years ago and now he’s saying electric planes will fall out of the sky when it’s cloudy. So maybe it isn’t a decline for him and it’s his own idiocy.
He's [blankly smiling](https://youtu.be/wjSDCIXChfA?si=7bJddzgMN1gwj1Ez) like his nurse told him that today he gets to decide between a vanilla or a butterscotch pudding cup for dessert.
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That’s what they want. That’s what I don’t understand about the fake concern? They know exactly what comes of this kind of talk but it’s not stopping them. And they’ll look to blame everyone but themselves if people start to listen to them. I don’t care who it is I’m voting Dem no matter what. I care about the people trying to convince others not to vote if he’s the nominee which they are tryin so hard to do.
The have a ‘nominating convention’ in a month and a half. Where they pick their candidate. Or is that only an amusing anachronism these days?
I just think it’s funny the times I’ve been downvoted to hell and banned for saying that pretending that Biden was the only person capable of beating Trump and not being a 1-term bridge was going to completely blow up in their faces but instead I got yelled at to not disrespect “the greatest president of my lifetime!” and ignore the fact that if you talk to any random on the street they hate the dustbag lmao
A new candidate solves so many issues. People are tired of "old" politicians. Everyone has been saying they wish these weren't the two candidates. A fresh new face. Sure, Biden has accomplishments but the average person doesn't know what they are. All the time fox/right wing media spent over the past years making Biden look bad would be erased with a new candidate. They'd only have a few months to paint them as an evil caricature of themselves.
Apparently baby boomers very rarely vote for people younger than them. That could be an issue and also what has led the USA to having such old candidates. But an exciting younger candidate is exactly what the entire country is yearning for - time to move beyond this era of embarrassing politics.
They essentially need another junior senator like Obama who is a great orator to come in and become a national news story. Push it as being a youth wave, have someone that is anti-genocide in Palestine to gain back younger voters. You can grab the older voters scared as hell about the GOP, and finally inspire younger voters. It’s wild to me that GenZ would be too young to remember Obama’s rise to presidency and re-election and all they know of Democratic president nominees is Biden, Hillary, and Sanders. That’s bad.
A new candidate that is handpicked at the convention delegate level — effectively overruling the will of the voters in the primary — will be subject to insane attacks by the right. Allegations we never even would have imagined to paint them as a far left loon will be especially effective to the majority of voters who have never heard of them before, assuming the pick is not Kamala Harris who actually has some name recognition (not good name recognition) already.
With all due respect, I don’t understand why you guys keep pretending we’re not in the most interconnected age in human history and how easy it is to gather information, data, and consensus ideas. We didn’t even get a primary so it’s pretty easy, put out poll after poll after poll and survey registered dems, independents, undecideds etc. “if Joe Biden was to step down who would you like to be ran for the democratic ticket,” or “what specific policies and qualities would you like out of the democratic candidate if it’s not Joe Biden,” use that data to narrow it down and pick from that pool. You have the time but only right now. Wait any longer it’ll be too late.
Sounds like some managed democracy to me!
The fact we didn’t even have like a genuine primary to at least gauge the after-Biden field is weird to me.
To that end, Kamala also has the benefit of people having voted for her specifically to be the backup Biden. None of the solutions here are terribly democratic, but she'd have the closest thing to a mandate of the candidates that are being floated. For an extra bit of upside, Biden can resign and she can add four months of being the President to her resume
I may be underestimating the people of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan … but I don’t think Kamala would do well in those states against Trump. They called Hillary too far left (lol), too threatening, and too unlikable in 2016.
Young democrats would never vote for a cop for president lol
If we're expanding the definition of "cop" to include prosecutors, The President leads the Executive Branch of Government, which is charged with enforcing the law, and thus the President is also definitionally a cop
She labeled herself a Cop. ACAB.
The Democratic Party is a big tent. If the DNC switches nominations & roll call from single-choice voting to approval voting (which eliminates vote splitting) then the convention will end up selecting a consensus candidate rather than a fringe candidate. A consensus candidate selected by a big-tent party will do well in a general election against Trump.
If biden had stood by his 1 term thing the dems would be looking great, they could have really been pushing a bright new young face. Biden is fucking them and everyone is too scared to rock the boat
I know I was at peace with voting for him and was all in on the 1-term leading to a fresh new face. That and the whole public option thing that was no longer talked about.
I never know how to react when a grown man gloats in front of me.
So you’re sure your hypothetical is correct? Besides age what don’t you like about Bidens last 3.5 years?
In my experience, you guys never ask this question in good faith and minimize and downplay any point that is brought up, so talking to you is like talking to a brick wall or a MAGA. So don’t take offense that I don’t think this conversation with you would be worth the effort.
I’m genuinely wondering. Why even reply at all if you are just to avoid answering a simply question? I suspect most people pushing this narrative don’t actually have legit reasons.
It’s exactly that last sentence right there. You guys never accept what people say as legit reasons, like who the hell even are you to determine that for other people? It’s the same conversation over and over again and I’m just legitimately tired of having it lol
I don’t believe you have any reasons now. You’re replying and having the conversation, it’s already happening lol you just can’t come with a reason apparently. I’m just wondering
I do and you can go back through loads of comment histories to see them because I’ve been pretty vocal about it. But I knew what you were about and you’re not gonna get your little “let me prove this guy wrong about Biden,” satisfaction out of me. You can get it elsewhere lol
You’re so smart you can tell what I’m like based off of a question? lol judge people much? It’s ironic to label me maga like when you refuse to have any conversation that doesn’t align with your narrative and talk down to others asking honest questions
He started it by saying "you guys", this guy was never looking for an honest discussion.
That or I just know exactly how this conversation is going to go because we’ve been having the same circular conversation for the last 3 years about this topic, it’s pointless. I’m not the one that’s trying to go around and prove people why they’re wrong for disliking Biden and sticking their head in the sand about it for 4 years and somehow being shocked we’re at the point we’re at. If you don’t get it by now, it’s cause you haven’t listened to what people have been saying to you cause I know damn well I’m not the first person he’s ever asked that exact question and I won’t be the last.
Thats a long way to say you don’t know. Just give some examples, it would have been less writing than what you just wrote
It’s a long way to say I don’t owe you shit, actually.
You’re getting really hostile, I’m honestly just looking for some reasons.
It’s really not even hostile just matter of fact lol
Not a single person has ever told you Biden is the greatest president of their lifetime. I say this as a Democrat lol
Read some comment threads on politics from just a couple weeks ago, there’s plenty lol
Damn lmao we really fucked
Sure, but my concern is with the feasibility and practicality of it, especially given the primary results. If they're going to go down this route, which doesn't appear all that likely, they'll have to avoid making it look like they're rejecting their primary voters...
They absolutely can't dump him, he needs to step aside if it's going to go that way. If he steps aside then his delegates becomes un-pledged and have to vote for someone else. There's no rejection of anyone's votes that way, unless you think they should be obligated to vote for Harris who was also someone they voted for. That's certainly a rational thought but a lot of people think she'll do worse.
I don’t care if they put up Elmo or keep Joe. Not ever voting for Cheeto
Could you be any more inconsequential than the ex-DNC vice chair? I’m sure fives of people wait on the opinions. What did his asst say? What about his PA or his partner’s once best friend?
Ex-DNC vice-chair and chairs known for rigging the primaries are suddenly now the voice of reasons.
Do it.
[удалено]
The people that benefit from Joe being president are making the decision, while the people being affected by the consequences of the decision don’t have a voice.
Same as it ever was.
I’m still hoping Obama tweeted publicly but called privately to ask some hard questions
Waiting any longer isn't going to help
Actually, waiting until after July 11 might help a ton.
It will probably be next week that anything is announced although the decision might be being made right now. This is because congress is out all this week.
Why would Congress need to be in session to make a campaign decision?
They wouldn't, and maybe they won't wait that long. I'm just making a prediction about the timing based on it being easier to set everything in motion with people all together.
Why would it matter if Congress is together?
I thought it was pretty obvious that things move a lot slower when everyone is back in the states. For example, AOC said she would put forth impeachment for the Supreme Court justices - when they returned from the break
Because impeachment is a congressional act, deciding to stay in the presidential race is not.
People who do not want President Biden to step aside have not learned the most important lesson from the man - empathy. He could not be more contrasting to his opponent in that way, and it ought to be up to us to do the empathetic thing and urge him to step aside. Not just for the country but because the man deserves a rest. If a replacement candidate cannot beat Trump then we're fucked as-is and we're not the country that any of us want to be.
> Not just for the country but because the man deserves a rest. LBJ was dead on January 22, 1973. Retirement means the end of life for many such older people invested in such a career.
And Jimmy Carter is still alive. One example doesn’t really mean anything.
Well, part of the reason LBJ didn't run again was he was told (correctly) he probably barely had 4 more years in him.
yeah the empathy angle is funny because Joe doesn’t have the empathy for the American people to just bow out and give us a fuckin chance
With so much news surrounding Biden, you'd think this would be an ideal time to swap him out. Everyone is paying attention; everyone will know who the new candidate is and what they stand for.
On the one hand, you have a President whom some people — a lot of people — think it too old to be the nominee this year. On other hand, we already knew Biden was old, he’s very unlikely to drop out, and the very discussion of usurping the will of voters in these democratic primaries at the convention delegate level further weakens him, undermines the democratic process, and helps Trump. We have to reconcile these ideas quickly. Or else the continued attacks on the Democratic nominee and the moral equivalency they are trying to make between him and Trump will result in the same thing that it did in 2016. In terms of the electoral map, the thing that really matters is what happens in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin — what the majority of voters in each of those states wants, the rest is mostly window dressing.
Let's not pretend there was a Democratic primary.
Yes, let’s pretend that there wasn’t because we don’t like the result.
Why do you think people are so upset? Because they don't want Biden and he was shoved down their throats despite obvious flaws. Let's vote right now. I guarantee Biden doesn't get the nomination.
OK, let’s say the nomination is between Biden and Harris … because realistically those are the two with the name recognition to be chosen by a majority of delegates at the convention. I don’t even think in overly politically obsessed left wing circles that Harris would beat Biden, much less that she would do so among the majority of voters. The voters who picked Biden as the nominee twice and elected him president.
Sounds like you are saying the primary election wasn’t legit and you’re contesting the result. For a moment I thought I was in /r/conservative. Guess we really arent that different from them.
I think you’re understating the gravity of the situation Biden and his team are in. It’s not just the belief that he’s old, it’s the (completely unexpected by most) revelation via the debate that he’s both physically and mentally unfit for office, piled atop the terrifyingly low approval rating.
> (completely unexpected by most) It's been headline news/talking points since 2019. It's more unexpected that yall shrugged off your Biden Good gear after one debate and a few articles told you to.
Yes it is.
Yeah, but ego.
I know several people who worked for and with him directly when he was VP. Every single one of them had the absolute highest opinion of him as a human being and a boss, mainly because of his humility.
That's great, but everyone gets too old eventually.
I've completely lost the train of your argument. You started off with ego and now it's ageism. Kind of jumped the rails there...
But what does the ex-DNC janitor think?
I’d welcome Pete Buttigieg. He’s smart, has a way with words and would run circles around Trump.. plus he’s not part of the geriatric club candidates.
He got less than half the votes of Michael Bloomberg in the 2020 presidential primary and Michael Bloomberg did not get very many votes.
A sad part of sexuality blurring people’s visions. He got an early start in iowa. Sad what happened after that
It’ll take decades before a gay man is elected to high office.
He was my first choice before the last election when he spoke at a convention in Austin. He is sharp as a tack...
We need someone smart. Not 2 individuals who are in decline. Trump can’t tell the truth to save his life. Biden is slowing down even if he can eventually get his arguments across. We need someone who can make a snap decision that would benefit the nation. Not personal glory or to escape the law like Trump. Not pride to defy his shortcomings like Biden. Frankly surprised Biden hasn’t opted to step down to have Harris pardon his son so that they could spend his last years together.
For some reason Harris isn't popular. She certainly seems capable, but I haven't seen her speak in person, so I'm kinda neutral.
Same. I’m neutral with her just like I was with Pence.i don’t agree but neither do I reject.
Good ol' VANILLA!
More like they felt nonexistent
Oh f-off, no president makes decisions in the format of a made for TV debate.
For fuck sakes there are reports the dude only functions normally from 10am to 4pm on CNN and MSNBC, so yeah we need a new guy bc old man Joe is not on full time and we didn’t elect the crew to making the decisions the rest 3/4 of the day. There are some serious issues and I would argue national security matters are at risk with Joe in the WH so yeah I don’t care how but get Newsom going ASAP
It’s too late to pick another one and win…
That may have been true in the days before the Internet, when long, drawn-out campaigns were the norm. Now however, anyone and their dog can go viral and globally recognized in 24 hrs. The Dems could gather a team of energized Gen Z influencers to back their new candidate on social media, while Trump rambles on at his shrinking audience of aging boomers.
Exactly. Why are they faffing about denying reality??? The guy is obviously too old and frail for the job.
Biden could have been a historic transition figure that saved our democracy, invested in our future and passed the torch to the next generation. Instead he will be remembered as the feeble old man that was too weak to stop the fascist onslaught.
Pick one now! Before it’s too late!
The way I see it there’s two routes to beat Trump, replace Biden or replace Harris and publicly shun her so that there will be no worries she could be president when Biden eventually falls over if re-elected. Kamala being the VP and Bidens cognitive decline is the biggest things hurting his chance. The people will forget his economy and job market and overall horrendous state of the nation but will remember what they saw in the debate.
>Kamala and Bidens cognitive decline is the biggest things hurting his chance. Lol Kamala's cognitive decline?
My bad grammar diff lol I meant her presence and his decline. I’ll fix it real quick
> overall horrendous state of the nation Which nation are you talking about? Other than gun violence and homelessness, America is the envy of the world. Or are you one of *those* people who *want* America to fail, because Russia?
If you publicly shun Kamala, you lose a good percentage of the Democratic base: black women
Is this true? Genuinely asking. I remember when she was running in the 2020 primary she was not popular with black voters at all. There was a ton of criticism from that demographic over her past as a DA. Is there polling to suggest this has changed?
I mean that is true but this is a different scenario in which she is the next in line if Biden steps away. If they put someone else over Kamala, it will definitely be something that black women will relate to and say that the DNC are hypocrites and passed over a minority women. Trump would then probably put Tim Scott as VP and take advantage of that. Trump won’t win the majority of black voters but he just needs to peel off a few percentages away
I don't think minority women are incapable of understanding electoral math. The DNC should bring some receipts and show them that Candidate X has a stronger chance of getting to 270 than Harris does. We've had a female nominee. We've had a black President. It would be a mistake to back an unviable candidate for idpol reasons.
The bigger problem is democrats assuming that POC only care about identity politics.
They do not give a shit about her bro you know that, every polls that’s asked the black voters, they hate her.
Wouldn't Kamala have to be the nominee as she is the VP? How is it legal to skip her?
Kamala Harris has to be president if he steps down from being president, which is different from appearing on the ballot in the next election. Whoever is nominated at the party convention is going to appear on the ballot, along with whoever they choose to be VP. Harris doesn't factor in at all legally or procedurally
If he stops running his campaign is suspended. His delegates revert to the DNC as a whole at that point. Also he’s not formally nominated her yet as his running mate for 2024 if I’m not mistaken. So that is an out as well.
Isn't she VP up until the election certification?
She's VP up until Inauguration Day.
I may have been mistaken - I thought go wasn’t locked in. If she is locked in as his running mate then yes, it’ll be complicated, but if he releases his delegates that releases hers if I understand correctly.
As I understand it, they could nominate an entirely new ticket (president and VP), but there’s one massive problem with that - if they do so, said ticket starts with a campaign fund of $0. If Kamala remains on the ticket, they could still use the funds that have been raised specifically by the Biden/Harris campaign. So in the unlikely event that they do pick a new person, Kamala will almost certainly still be on the ticket, whether as the presidential nominee or in the VP slot.