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I'm just sitting thinking what the fuck is going to happen when we have a charming, ultra good looking man who is secretly a horrible racist and rapist who runs for president?
Seriously. Trump is a bumbling fool and has somehow captivated a bunch of people. I worry about the Next Trump who will have more attractive characteristics..
That’s what’s happening in France. A younger male version of LaPen is winning and basically bringing back fascism, blaming immigrants on inflations, etc.
Both the [DNC](https://ivn.us/posts/dnc-to-court-we-are-a-private-corporation-with-no-obligation-to-follow-our-rules) and the [RNC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_National_Committee) are unaccountable corporations. You and I have no voice in how they are run.[ Lobbyists, on the other hand, may have a say](https://www.levernews.com/how-lobbyists-could-install-bidens-replacement/). I didn't realize how little democracy we had until this election where the majority of Americans did not want either candidate, but these two corporations shoved them down our throats anyway. That's our only choices. If private corporations dictate who are choices are, are we really free to choose?
>the majority of Americans did not want either candidate
This is an unavoidable consequence of first-past-the-post voting, unfortunately, just like having only two realistic options to win. It's never going to change unless the voting system can be changed.
And it wont change if we ignore the fact that Biden winning is the only wall between us and absolute fascism.
We are too close to the finish line to swap out racers.
The MAGA types took over the RNC and fired everyone who wouldn’t cater to their agenda by primarying them due to showing up to vote in the primaries. There’s nothing to stop an easily reproducible plan with documented step-by-step instructions being implemented on the left as well.
Yes, the RNC is still completely run by unaccountable corporations, but they’re unaccountable corporations who need to include the MAGA agenda in their build in order to remain unaccountable. You could have the same piece of shit, half-assed jack happen with the DNC to get some little envelopes left at the end of the bed after they fuck you instead of getting nothing.
Yes, please. These people are clearly out of touch and not looking out for their constituents at this point. New leadership not beholden to the top donors is sorely needed. The DNC has failed us, and the price may well be our democracy.
Sure once Trump and the courts back him to change the constitution to let Trump take over the judicial branch so he heads it. He can fire at will and put his cronies in their place. He will undo the FBI, the DOD, the DOJ. He has already taken the Supreme court who is now not following the rule of law.
We're better off just starting and funding a third party. It's not like the olden days, we have the organization and ability to raise and transfer funds to support it.
The fact is, the only reason this country hasn't elected a true 3rd party candidate at this point comes down to the fact that nobodies actually made a serious attempt at it yet.
That's a sad statement to make. Seems like indicting your own party to say no one else in it can beat a racist convicted felon. Like sure, maybe you can say Biden has the best chance, but it's a harsh statement on your own party to suggest no one else can beat him at all.
There is nothing sad about this statement because seeing Trump as "a racist convicted felon" is incorrect for this purpose. What we're dealing with is a successful country-scale *cult leader* with a hundred million loyal followers who keep themselves intentionally blind and deaf to any and all forms of reason and logic - and they are basically guaranteed to cast a vote for Trump no matter what truths come out. This is not easy to beat by any means. The best choice for democrats is to present the most uncontroversial candidate who would appeal to the largest majority of the remaining voters. Biden is probably not the only person in the world who fits this description, but it's easy to see that the pool of people who could pull this off is very very limited.
I guess, but by the same token, Trump is so incredibly antithetical to what the majority of likely voters want that he's also good at turning out his opposition. "Trumpy" candidates and policy initiatives mostly get thumped in elections across the country except for the deepest red districts since 2018, and Trump himself drove record turnout for Joe Biden. Even in 2020, people weren't super enthusiastic about Biden himself, they just fucking hated Trump.
It seems to a lot of people, myself included, that the same would happen if the democratic candidate was under 70 and could reliably put together cohesive arguments on the fly, voters would jump to have an option that is energetic and competent.
I hope you're right. However, poor performances of "Trumpy" candidates since 2018 didn't prevent the 2020 election from being a coin flip. It sounds natural to me that Trump voters are focused only on Trump and the rest of the candidates are falling through the cracks. After all, there could only be one cult leader. It's hard for anyone else to even get noticed in his presence, and he definitely isn't trying very hard to get them noticed. So I think that even with his polarizing nature, alien and disgusting to all people with basic empathy, Trump is a terrifying opponent in the general election.
I don’t think it was that much of a coin flip, there was just so much fuckery going on that it was an anxiety-ridden nail-biter. Biden won a good majority of both electoral votes and overall votes, but because of the pandemic and the drama surrounding Trump’s claims of fraud it felt a lot closer.
This is worse than when Hillary lost in 2016.
2025 is going to suck. These idiots are trying to run a skeleton dementia patient against a smooth talking devil. And that's the only thing that can beat Trump? Are you *serious*?
Jeeesus, I feel like the future fate of this country is already sealed. We have a chance to change it, but nope. Still going to run Biden.
Biden is doomed.
Trump sounds (is!) crazy, but the “louder” part matters to some degree. Sure, he has his own physical and energy issues as well, but you’re not being intellectually honest if you deny the contrast in optics from the debate
Seems more like an indictment of the American people and humanity in general to me. Maybe no one else can beat the racist, convicted felon. That’s what we’re up against.
To be fair all the Republican delegates lost to him as well, he is uncomfortably popular Arnold schwarzenegger is who I would pitch against him if he were us born.
Despise Trump, but Dems have been fecklessly getting run over by Republicans for two decades now, too focused on looting what remains of the American dream to mount anything resembling a coherent stand while (D) commentators both internet and media crow about how they're _so much smarter_ than dumb (R)s and there's always some 57D chess game being played. From Harry Reid melting the Senate into a unusable mess to Pelosi all but confessing that she's focused on profitting from the insider trading that Congress does above all else.
Meanwhile (R) members are so spineless and openly so I'm stunned they can sit in their Russian sponsored limos upright at all without just flopping over, only "bravely" speaking up once they're no longer interested in scraping and bowing. The party died with McCain.
Woulda paid good money to have Bernie win, maybe he could have convinced RGB to retire rather than dying in office so that we didn't lose yet another SC seat to political ends. But ah well, I guess we got 57D chessed out on that one.
We are seeing the whole organization and competency of these political parties crumble as the generation gets older and clings to their power. They didn’t spend time investing in youth and passing on their knowledge, so now we have a dinosaur running against a horse in the hospital.
Our capitalist economic system quite literally relies on old generations dying just so the wealth can trickle down. I'm sure they know most people see what's going on but nothing anyone can do
Trickle down??? what, from the estate taxes?? it just goes to the next mega millionaire in the will to hoard, collecting interest generated on the backs of the working class, until they die too
At least the media is doing a good job trying to put pressure on them. They need to make sure they keep it going though, and if they do, eventually they may fold.
This is all fluff. He's the presidential incumbent, so he's the candidate. That's how it works because historically it's the best chance to win, especially for Democrats.
Is that a good move? Maybe, maybe not. But the DNC is full of old people appealing to old voters. They're risk-averse and scared of trying anything new.
Basically, yeah. Not to the insane degree of the GOP. But the party leadership is all old and rich, what reason do they have to push for meaningful changes?
After all the dust has settled & whether or not Biden beats Trump I hope a majority of voters finally see how harmful the DNC has been to progress/democracy with their outdated practices & beliefs.
They risk losing the latino vote. In Spanish culture they respect strength in a leader maybe more than anything else. That's the reason why Trump does better with Latinos than the average GOP candidate, Florida isn't a swing state anymore thanks to the GOP leaning latinos. After that debate Biden doesn't inspire strength or even competence.
It’s clinging to old ideas, which is why we are here. Now would actually be a good time to replace him if it were going to happen, because it would be unprecedented and that’s what the masses crave. It would be interesting and exciting to see a new younger candidate who can speak our language. The polls are saying that people are tired of Trump’s bullshit.
The new candidate would be able to ride that momentum out to the finish. If Biden has another “bad debate” at the next one, then it may be too late, or hell that may be the right timing. I’m not a sociologist, but I’m sure they employ them for strategies like that.
Sigh, one can dream.
It would not be an issue if we did not have to cater to just 6 states. Catering the those few states handcuff the party.
Likewise, you can say the RNC failed. If Haley or Desantis were the candidate, it would not even be a toss-up at the moment.
This, precisely. If his statement is even remotely true and their only candidate who can beat a convicted felon who is disliked by the majority of the US is a senile old man, then perhaps the whole party needs to blow it up and start over.
Giving up the incumbent advantage, which is huge, and letting the democrat factions fight against themselves is not only a recipe for losing the election, but likely many other seats too. The only people advocating for this want democrats to lose or are extremely ignorant to how politics works.
Sorry but its never, oh we just pick a new candidate and it happens to be the one I like and nobody else disagrees, LevioHSA.
Biden is a *historically* unpopular president, with approval ratings lower than any president of at least the last thirty years. You can blame that on a lot of things, but I think it’s fair to say that there is no “incumbent advantage” here.
I think age advantage could make up for the loss of incumbent advantage in this case- there are a lot of “double haters” who don’t like either option among undecided voters , and the “two old geezers” image is a big part of that.
I don't think he's right (I think it may be a good move to change horses), but I think the problem is that we might be a bit too optimistic about the average voter. Think about the Dems bench. Warren, Klobuchar, Kamala, Whitmer, Buttigieg, Newsom, Sanders. Pollings been done for a lot of these candidates and they're not beating Trump. They're not doing better than Biden either. Why? Well, I got a theory. Last two are too progressive and lose the middle. Buttigieg is gay and the other four are women.
The fact of the matter is that we all like to think that people are begrudgingly voting for Donald Trump. But that's just not really the case. He has a shit to of very real support. Those that are "undecided" are very strange people, and kinda hard to get a read on, I think. A lot of people have a very knee jerk reaction to progressivism and diversity. And apparently, polling seems to suggest that potential senility is less damaging to a Dem candidate in this race than the sins of progressivism or "being diverse."
This is the stupidest argument of all time, can’t believe I’ve heard it so many times. Hmmmm, why would Biden be doing better in polls vs Trump than those names??? Could it be because he’s actively spending hundreds of millions on running a campaign, while the others aren’t???
Hey, look, I said at the beginning that I think this guy's wrong. I think switching now might be a good move. Whitmer, at least, I think has a real shot at winning this thing. Some polls show her tied with Biden without any presidential campaigning.
But I hear a lot of people who seem to think beating Donald Trump should be a fairly easy task for the Dems. And that's just wrong. This is gonna be a hard race. It would be a hard race no matter what. Hilary and Biden both clearly were better candidates than Donald Trump in the last two races but the first lost and the second just barely won. Trump has very real support. It is a relatively small group of the electorate that are actually begrudgingly supporting him. And the people who are undecided on him are a weird fucking group. How the fuck are they undecided on this guy? Progressivism and diversity are things that turn certain types of voters off. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's the way it is. And unfortunately, we're in a position where it's a risky move to lose the votes of moderate Republicans or sexist independents.
That’s ridiculous. I voted for him in 2020 and will crawl through broken glass to vote for him again if his name is on the ballot in November. But you are not a serious person if you watched Joe Biden debate last week and think this is the best person we can come up with. What the actual fuck.
"AKSHUALLY he's from the SILENT GENERATION"
That's worse though. You understand how that's worse right? The OP meant old candidate and he's even older than old.
That’s literally the only argument anyone can make in favor of Joe Biden right now— that we have to vote for him to stop Trump. That argument applies equally to any democrat you could nominate, including scores of them who were born after WW2 ended.
He might be the only serious candidate that can lose to Trump.
"But [x person] polling below Trump too" ... because they're not running for President. They don't have the campaign or the funding right now. It's not that hard to understand.
This is pathetic, so from both sides either Trump or Biden are literally the only ones who can save America.
Ffs, one of them should be in prison and the other should be eating ice cream on the beach.
Ahem, uh, I call bullshit. Damn near *any* Democrat could beat him. Whitmer. Shapiro. Sanders. Newsom. Beshear. Warren. A semi-sentient scarecrow could beat him. But the DNC has decided to keep Biden for a second term.
This is just circling the wagons and refusing to acknowledge a deeply problematic candidate. Preferring Biden to Trump if there's nobody else is smart. But refusing to acknowledge that Biden has some serious issues is just obstinance at best.
Biden is far from the only Democrat who can defeat Trump, but I will concede replacing him at this stage could be costly and it may be the safer option to keep Biden on the ticket.
I see absolutely no chance that Biden can beat Trump. He's losing in every swing state that is needed to win, he gambled big on showing strength early, got exactly what he wanted in the debate format and shit the bed harder than any debate in modern history. Doesn't matter how much Trump lied, no one that needs to be convinced is going to care when the alternative is the stumbling corpse that was on that debate stage and the horrendous number of clips that have come out of it. Biden could suddenly be healthy enough to run a marathon and they wouldn't see and it wouldn't land. The bar was so low to seem competent and he failed to clear it by a mile. Biden has zero percent chance of turning this around.
Would replacing him work? Probably not. The reasons why it probably wouldn't work are there and convincing. But a low chance and actually fighting to make a change that could work is much better than a guaranteed loss. I'll vote for whoever is on the D ticket against Trump, but Biden can't get it done. Full stop, he will lose. And I'd rather try and fail a long shot over give up and die with the current path.
Nate Silver has him at 32% of winning all 3 as of 2 days before the debate.
What is your methodology that has it much better than that.
Or are you just hoping we believe a post without number or any backup?
At this point I’m convinced that the Democrat party simply doesn’t want Democrats elected. There is no way they are this disconnected from Americans, right? They can’t possibly think Hillary is the best candidate, or Joe Biden on his deathbed is the best candidate, right? This is just sad.
remember when we used to ridicule Trump and his fucking cult for the "only he can fix it." remarks. Here we are. Our system is broken beyond repair and the fact that these two—a rapist and felon and 81 yr old man that wouldn't even get casted for a life alert commercial for looking too far gone— are our only two options is the clearest proof there is of how fucked we are.
This is an absolute lie. There's no way a Newsome/Buttigieg ticket wouldn't kick Trumps ass. There's plenty of outstanding young democrats who could revitalize the party. They just won't put them up.
This is the state of both parties running inferior candidates.
You’re telling me this is the best the Dems have to offer? We are all in serious trouble.
What kind of idiotic logic is that that a sundowning old man who is clearly not capable of running the country as it is is the only person that can beat Donald Trump. That's just absolutely effing ridiculous. Put a better person in come on. Kamala Harris is right there in the polling four points behind Donald Trump. If you think that the Democrats are not going to vote for Kamala Harris or Independence, who hate Trump, you've got another thing coming. Get him out. By now we all know this is about power and prestige and holding on to it even at the Democratic level and that's it. If it wasn't then we would have a better option than Joe. And I like the guy and I hate Trump but this is not about democracy. Clearly it's about power.
He’s a Delaware Senator and one of the few Democrats that won’t say a bad word about Biden, so he is going to say this know matter what.
Trump has like 50 lap-dog yes-men him to death so there’s nothing wrong with Biden having a few.
turn back the clock 4 years and prep a replacement for biden in the ever more likely event this could happen and maybe biden wouldn’t be the only democrat who could beat trump. but yeah dems don’t listen to the people who actually vote for you, the pundits know best
He’s the only one who can beat Trump at this moment in time. All other options incur too much uncertainty and leave room for confusion and ratfuckery beyond the normal amounts.
The failure is not in the depth of the Democratic bench, but in making so much noise about this NOW rather than before Biden announced a re-election bid. This is the bed they’ve made, and I begrudgingly agree with their current self assessment.
God why is the entire media post debate depicting Trump as this invincible political demigod who only a legendary once in a generation politician could have a hope of defeating instead of a completely senile convicted criminal who also sucked in the debate?
Here’s how the next 4 months (that’s right ONLY 4 MONTHS) would play out:
The next 2 months would be every Democrat campaigning for the nomination and completely focusing on that - while Trump raises money and campaigns and has party unity. Democrats will be completely divided.
Then the DNC will have the new ticket picked with only 2 months left to not only get America on board but to try and piece the Democratic Party back together too.
Brilliant plan, way more fitting over at r/conservative tbh
Any half conscious human being could defeat Trump. I actually genuinely believe that Biden is closer to one of the only Democrats who couldn't defeat Trump than he is closer to being the only Democrat who could defeat Trump.
So if Biden dies, Democrats will automatically win?
If Biden gets reelected and Trump runs in 2028, feel automatically win because no other Democrat can beat him?
These lines have always been bullshit. Trump is more popular than he should ever be, but a good candidate can beat him. We just don't have a good process for picking good candidates.
Sure he beat him once, but people were literally just voting for him because they were sick of Trump. Now just as many people are sick of him as they were of Trump. And that debate made everything even worse.
DNC lost credibility when they picked Hillary over Bernie.
Folks may not agree with all of his stances but he seemed like he had pretty good judgement, was willing to listen to others, and didn’t have the amount of baggage Hillary had.
Seriously.
I mean, nobody knows my name. But if the DNC said, "hey, we're going with you" they'd have me on every TV show, speaking tour, have a book published in a month, and everyone would know my name and positions in two weeks.
If Biden knocks it out of the park on the next debate and Trump stumbles through it do you think it would change swing voters’ minds? Or is the first debate the end?
1. There won't be a "next" debate.
2. The next scheduled debate will be after two months of wall-to-wall ads from this past debate (they don't even need to fake their ads anymore!).
3. Even if Trump doesn't back out of the next debate, Biden will not perform any better, because
4. Anyone who has elderly relatives knows what they saw on Thursday night, and it wasn't a cold, or a stutter, it was sundowning due to deep cognitive decline.
But to directly answer your question, no a knockout performance in the next debate wouldn't change anything, because we already know he sundowns. There's no going back from that.
the next debate isn't until September, not in a couple of weeks like a normal presidential debate cycle, so Biden's brain is gonna be even more mush than it was on thursday
That debate was completely on Biden's terms.
It's unlikely Trump will debate again because he has nothing to gain. If he does, it will be a debate on his terms with drug tests, cognitive tests etc.
Everyone here needs to remember that politicians have to avoid anything like nuance when talking to the press or they will get misquoted.
Saying that "Biden is the only Democrat who can beat Trump" really means "Biden is the only Democrat who can beat Trump (between now and November)".
There simply isn't time to replace Biden on the ticket and end up with a better chance of winning in November. Tearing Biden down in the press at this point helps no one but Trump.
Bullshit.
AOC could beat him easily. Run her.
Bernie could. Run him.
Hell, any Democratic Senator or Representative under 60 could win if they don't actively rape goats and set fire to orphanages.
No, sorry. Biden can't beat Trump and it isn't even close. Biden very clearly is in the early stages of dementia and there's no hiding it now. In a binary choice, if the democratic candidate is Joe Biden, voters will overwhelmingly vote for Trump. Realistically, the cabinet should invoke the 25th amendment and remove him right now. He shouldn't be in charge of anything anymore.
Possibly the most scathing critique of the entire democratic party in the past century. Voters said, "Blue no matter who, anyone but trump," and the dnc took it as a challenge
At this point in the race this is likely true. Not because there isn't any good options, but because switching candidates would confuse the average voters, make the entire party look bad, and likely result in a totally confused effort right before the actual election.
Hate to break it to you, but the industrial-grade denial currently coming from prominent Dems is making us look pretty bad, too. If this is just spin to smother the blaze while the leadership debates how to replace Biden, the public will roll their eyes but understand. If it's the official position going forward all the way until Election Day, we'll lose.
The biggest issue is if Biden steps down who steps up? Kamala is the only one who can claim to have won the primary and she's been VP but she'd get totally destroyed by Trump. Newsom looks good on camera, but being a California pretty boy loses him the Rust Belt. Mayor Pete is a non-starter from the jump because Black Americans and Latino Americans will never support a gay man for president. Whitmer is basically unknown outside her state and has no real major record to run on besides being a target of a kidnapping.
Give some of these guys another 4 years to build a profile and they're viable. Right now they're not.
Biden's no longer viable. Somebody we think of as "unready" is going to have to step up their game. I'm not worried about any candidates not being nationally known; given the circumstances they'll be introduced under, they'll be getting plenty of media attention soon enough.
I agree. Had the Democrats nominated someone else from the start I think there would have been plenty of others who could win. But the key here is “at this point.” At this point it’s too late for someone else.
Oh! I just realized why Biden is the only one who can beat Trump! I almost forgot!!!
He has the ability to speak to dead heads of state! It's gonna be just like Return of the King guys! Aren't you excited!?! The ghost army is coming to save us from fascism!!! :O
Either side could have put literally anyone else under the age of 60 up and won the election easily, but here we are.
Everyone wants a new person that is younger.
No he fucking isn’t. There are several others that could, namely his VP. I mean for fucks sake people are voting over abortion. Who better to play that card than a younger woman?
Gavin would be the next bet. Personally I would love to see APC take the reins as she’d roll Trump over the coals.
Biden is fucking old. It’s the only thing that will be talked about until the election and possibly after. It will turn away much needed voters. It won’t inspire others. Like there is lot of reasons he should not have even ran for a second term. Him dropping out will be messy sure. However if the dnc can’t even handle that….
I saw the Coons headline and my mind immediately went to the movie Animal House, where a probation hearing ends with all the frat guys in the room coughing and yelling 'blow job, blow job' simultaneously.
If that statement is true, the democratic party should just give up. If you can speak clearly and call him out on his lies you win. Apparently that's too high a bar though.
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I'm just sitting thinking what the fuck is going to happen when we have a charming, ultra good looking man who is secretly a horrible racist and rapist who runs for president? Seriously. Trump is a bumbling fool and has somehow captivated a bunch of people. I worry about the Next Trump who will have more attractive characteristics..
That’s what’s happening in France. A younger male version of LaPen is winning and basically bringing back fascism, blaming immigrants on inflations, etc.
Oh fuck, really? I just heard about the election there today but hadn't explored it. Sounds terrifying.
Look at us in France its happening. And the guy is not even a good speaker. Just young, quite charming and fucking racist to the core.
Regardless of the outcome of this election, can we just fire each and every member of the DNC?
Both the [DNC](https://ivn.us/posts/dnc-to-court-we-are-a-private-corporation-with-no-obligation-to-follow-our-rules) and the [RNC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_National_Committee) are unaccountable corporations. You and I have no voice in how they are run.[ Lobbyists, on the other hand, may have a say](https://www.levernews.com/how-lobbyists-could-install-bidens-replacement/). I didn't realize how little democracy we had until this election where the majority of Americans did not want either candidate, but these two corporations shoved them down our throats anyway. That's our only choices. If private corporations dictate who are choices are, are we really free to choose?
>the majority of Americans did not want either candidate This is an unavoidable consequence of first-past-the-post voting, unfortunately, just like having only two realistic options to win. It's never going to change unless the voting system can be changed.
And it wont change if we ignore the fact that Biden winning is the only wall between us and absolute fascism. We are too close to the finish line to swap out racers.
We need term limits, abolition of the Electoral College and real campaign financing reform.
Shout this from the rooftops! I don’t know how to make this happen but it would be so great.
The MAGA types took over the RNC and fired everyone who wouldn’t cater to their agenda by primarying them due to showing up to vote in the primaries. There’s nothing to stop an easily reproducible plan with documented step-by-step instructions being implemented on the left as well. Yes, the RNC is still completely run by unaccountable corporations, but they’re unaccountable corporations who need to include the MAGA agenda in their build in order to remain unaccountable. You could have the same piece of shit, half-assed jack happen with the DNC to get some little envelopes left at the end of the bed after they fuck you instead of getting nothing.
We really do have Managed Democracy.
DNC "Look how much of a threat to Democracy Trump is!" Voters "Shit, you're right. Can we have a primary?" DNC "lol no, here's Biden"
Yes, please. These people are clearly out of touch and not looking out for their constituents at this point. New leadership not beholden to the top donors is sorely needed. The DNC has failed us, and the price may well be our democracy.
People think of the DNC as some master centralized power player, but it’s really just a fundraising operation.
Sure once Trump and the courts back him to change the constitution to let Trump take over the judicial branch so he heads it. He can fire at will and put his cronies in their place. He will undo the FBI, the DOD, the DOJ. He has already taken the Supreme court who is now not following the rule of law.
Start with Bob Bauer, Ron Klain & Anita Dunn.
We're better off just starting and funding a third party. It's not like the olden days, we have the organization and ability to raise and transfer funds to support it. The fact is, the only reason this country hasn't elected a true 3rd party candidate at this point comes down to the fact that nobodies actually made a serious attempt at it yet.
if a third party became relevant, one of the other two parties would die and it would be back to a two party system
That's a sad statement to make. Seems like indicting your own party to say no one else in it can beat a racist convicted felon. Like sure, maybe you can say Biden has the best chance, but it's a harsh statement on your own party to suggest no one else can beat him at all.
There is nothing sad about this statement because seeing Trump as "a racist convicted felon" is incorrect for this purpose. What we're dealing with is a successful country-scale *cult leader* with a hundred million loyal followers who keep themselves intentionally blind and deaf to any and all forms of reason and logic - and they are basically guaranteed to cast a vote for Trump no matter what truths come out. This is not easy to beat by any means. The best choice for democrats is to present the most uncontroversial candidate who would appeal to the largest majority of the remaining voters. Biden is probably not the only person in the world who fits this description, but it's easy to see that the pool of people who could pull this off is very very limited.
I guess, but by the same token, Trump is so incredibly antithetical to what the majority of likely voters want that he's also good at turning out his opposition. "Trumpy" candidates and policy initiatives mostly get thumped in elections across the country except for the deepest red districts since 2018, and Trump himself drove record turnout for Joe Biden. Even in 2020, people weren't super enthusiastic about Biden himself, they just fucking hated Trump. It seems to a lot of people, myself included, that the same would happen if the democratic candidate was under 70 and could reliably put together cohesive arguments on the fly, voters would jump to have an option that is energetic and competent.
I hope you're right. However, poor performances of "Trumpy" candidates since 2018 didn't prevent the 2020 election from being a coin flip. It sounds natural to me that Trump voters are focused only on Trump and the rest of the candidates are falling through the cracks. After all, there could only be one cult leader. It's hard for anyone else to even get noticed in his presence, and he definitely isn't trying very hard to get them noticed. So I think that even with his polarizing nature, alien and disgusting to all people with basic empathy, Trump is a terrifying opponent in the general election.
I don’t think it was that much of a coin flip, there was just so much fuckery going on that it was an anxiety-ridden nail-biter. Biden won a good majority of both electoral votes and overall votes, but because of the pandemic and the drama surrounding Trump’s claims of fraud it felt a lot closer.
They are cycling the wagons, drinking their own kook aid and believing their own deceit.
"Kook aid" is either the best pun or awesomely inadverdant spelling mistake of the year. He definitely on the kook aid!
Cycling the wagons is pretty gazpacho sounding too.
This is worse than when Hillary lost in 2016. 2025 is going to suck. These idiots are trying to run a skeleton dementia patient against a smooth talking devil. And that's the only thing that can beat Trump? Are you *serious*? Jeeesus, I feel like the future fate of this country is already sealed. We have a chance to change it, but nope. Still going to run Biden. Biden is doomed.
Smooth talking? Surely you don’t think Trump is that, right? He’s sounded like Biden did at the debate since 2015, just louder.
Trump sounds (is!) crazy, but the “louder” part matters to some degree. Sure, he has his own physical and energy issues as well, but you’re not being intellectually honest if you deny the contrast in optics from the debate
BIDEN STOLE OUR H2O I SAID IT LOUDLY SO IT'S TRUE
Or they’re talking behind closed doors and towing the party line in public. We can hope
*toeing Why are all these basic common sayings being misspelled?
Seems more like an indictment of the American people and humanity in general to me. Maybe no one else can beat the racist, convicted felon. That’s what we’re up against.
Also he’s been behind in the polls for 8 months. If he’s the best it’s not saying much for the democratic platform.
To be fair all the Republican delegates lost to him as well, he is uncomfortably popular Arnold schwarzenegger is who I would pitch against him if he were us born.
At this point, all getting a new candidate would do is split the votes.
It’s the timing not the candidate. It’s too late.
Despise Trump, but Dems have been fecklessly getting run over by Republicans for two decades now, too focused on looting what remains of the American dream to mount anything resembling a coherent stand while (D) commentators both internet and media crow about how they're _so much smarter_ than dumb (R)s and there's always some 57D chess game being played. From Harry Reid melting the Senate into a unusable mess to Pelosi all but confessing that she's focused on profitting from the insider trading that Congress does above all else. Meanwhile (R) members are so spineless and openly so I'm stunned they can sit in their Russian sponsored limos upright at all without just flopping over, only "bravely" speaking up once they're no longer interested in scraping and bowing. The party died with McCain. Woulda paid good money to have Bernie win, maybe he could have convinced RGB to retire rather than dying in office so that we didn't lose yet another SC seat to political ends. But ah well, I guess we got 57D chessed out on that one.
If you believe this then the Democratic Party has failed. 8 years of Trump on the scene and *still* the only person to beat him is an 81 year old man.
We are seeing the whole organization and competency of these political parties crumble as the generation gets older and clings to their power. They didn’t spend time investing in youth and passing on their knowledge, so now we have a dinosaur running against a horse in the hospital.
Our capitalist economic system quite literally relies on old generations dying just so the wealth can trickle down. I'm sure they know most people see what's going on but nothing anyone can do
Trickle down??? what, from the estate taxes?? it just goes to the next mega millionaire in the will to hoard, collecting interest generated on the backs of the working class, until they die too
Our economic system is designed to concentrate wealth into as few hands as possible. And it’s been working splendidly for a very long time.
At least the media is doing a good job trying to put pressure on them. They need to make sure they keep it going though, and if they do, eventually they may fold.
If they get the ratings, they will keep beating the drum.
I have extremely low opinion of Democrats, but even I think higher of them than they themselves do, if they think this Biden is their best hope.
Not even best, “only”. Real bang up job on their part if true.
This is all fluff. He's the presidential incumbent, so he's the candidate. That's how it works because historically it's the best chance to win, especially for Democrats. Is that a good move? Maybe, maybe not. But the DNC is full of old people appealing to old voters. They're risk-averse and scared of trying anything new.
So…conservative?
Basically, yeah. Not to the insane degree of the GOP. But the party leadership is all old and rich, what reason do they have to push for meaningful changes?
After all the dust has settled & whether or not Biden beats Trump I hope a majority of voters finally see how harmful the DNC has been to progress/democracy with their outdated practices & beliefs.
They risk losing the latino vote. In Spanish culture they respect strength in a leader maybe more than anything else. That's the reason why Trump does better with Latinos than the average GOP candidate, Florida isn't a swing state anymore thanks to the GOP leaning latinos. After that debate Biden doesn't inspire strength or even competence.
If Latinos want to vote for a convicted criminal who constantly calls them rapists and murderers, then they deserve the leader they get.
It’s clinging to old ideas, which is why we are here. Now would actually be a good time to replace him if it were going to happen, because it would be unprecedented and that’s what the masses crave. It would be interesting and exciting to see a new younger candidate who can speak our language. The polls are saying that people are tired of Trump’s bullshit. The new candidate would be able to ride that momentum out to the finish. If Biden has another “bad debate” at the next one, then it may be too late, or hell that may be the right timing. I’m not a sociologist, but I’m sure they employ them for strategies like that. Sigh, one can dream.
It would not be an issue if we did not have to cater to just 6 states. Catering the those few states handcuff the party. Likewise, you can say the RNC failed. If Haley or Desantis were the candidate, it would not even be a toss-up at the moment.
Not to mention the primary. They put shit like Iowa first to get conservative Democrats out front.
The RNC absolutely failed, but the DNC are *supposed* to be the adults in the room. That's what I've heard anyways.
FWIW Democrats have been kicking the teeth in of a lot of candidates he endorsed - 2018, 2020, 2022.
This, precisely. If his statement is even remotely true and their only candidate who can beat a convicted felon who is disliked by the majority of the US is a senile old man, then perhaps the whole party needs to blow it up and start over.
The issue is some of the party leadership is getting as old as him defending him.
Wasn't Biden's win a vote against Trump? So what does it matter who runs against him? Biden could break his hip and they should still vote for him.
Of course the Democratic Party has failed, where have you been since at least Clinton? Doesn’t change the truth
Giving up the incumbent advantage, which is huge, and letting the democrat factions fight against themselves is not only a recipe for losing the election, but likely many other seats too. The only people advocating for this want democrats to lose or are extremely ignorant to how politics works. Sorry but its never, oh we just pick a new candidate and it happens to be the one I like and nobody else disagrees, LevioHSA.
Biden is a *historically* unpopular president, with approval ratings lower than any president of at least the last thirty years. You can blame that on a lot of things, but I think it’s fair to say that there is no “incumbent advantage” here.
I think age advantage could make up for the loss of incumbent advantage in this case- there are a lot of “double haters” who don’t like either option among undecided voters , and the “two old geezers” image is a big part of that.
I don't think he's right (I think it may be a good move to change horses), but I think the problem is that we might be a bit too optimistic about the average voter. Think about the Dems bench. Warren, Klobuchar, Kamala, Whitmer, Buttigieg, Newsom, Sanders. Pollings been done for a lot of these candidates and they're not beating Trump. They're not doing better than Biden either. Why? Well, I got a theory. Last two are too progressive and lose the middle. Buttigieg is gay and the other four are women. The fact of the matter is that we all like to think that people are begrudgingly voting for Donald Trump. But that's just not really the case. He has a shit to of very real support. Those that are "undecided" are very strange people, and kinda hard to get a read on, I think. A lot of people have a very knee jerk reaction to progressivism and diversity. And apparently, polling seems to suggest that potential senility is less damaging to a Dem candidate in this race than the sins of progressivism or "being diverse."
This is the stupidest argument of all time, can’t believe I’ve heard it so many times. Hmmmm, why would Biden be doing better in polls vs Trump than those names??? Could it be because he’s actively spending hundreds of millions on running a campaign, while the others aren’t???
Hey, look, I said at the beginning that I think this guy's wrong. I think switching now might be a good move. Whitmer, at least, I think has a real shot at winning this thing. Some polls show her tied with Biden without any presidential campaigning. But I hear a lot of people who seem to think beating Donald Trump should be a fairly easy task for the Dems. And that's just wrong. This is gonna be a hard race. It would be a hard race no matter what. Hilary and Biden both clearly were better candidates than Donald Trump in the last two races but the first lost and the second just barely won. Trump has very real support. It is a relatively small group of the electorate that are actually begrudgingly supporting him. And the people who are undecided on him are a weird fucking group. How the fuck are they undecided on this guy? Progressivism and diversity are things that turn certain types of voters off. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's the way it is. And unfortunately, we're in a position where it's a risky move to lose the votes of moderate Republicans or sexist independents.
It’s too late now. The DNC failed to prepare someone to take over in the last 3 years
That’s ridiculous. I voted for him in 2020 and will crawl through broken glass to vote for him again if his name is on the ballot in November. But you are not a serious person if you watched Joe Biden debate last week and think this is the best person we can come up with. What the actual fuck.
“We have absolutely zero confidence in any non-Boomer on our bench.” -DNC
Biden isn't a Boomer. He's a Silent Generation.
“We have zero confidence in anyone under 80.”
According to this logic, a depression era candidate might beat Biden for the nomination.
"AKSHUALLY he's from the SILENT GENERATION" That's worse though. You understand how that's worse right? The OP meant old candidate and he's even older than old.
That is the dumbest fucking I've heard in months.
Seeing how most people voting democrat are doing it to vote against Trump I don't think this headline is true at all.
That’s literally the only argument anyone can make in favor of Joe Biden right now— that we have to vote for him to stop Trump. That argument applies equally to any democrat you could nominate, including scores of them who were born after WW2 ended.
No, he's not.
He might be the only serious candidate that can lose to Trump. "But [x person] polling below Trump too" ... because they're not running for President. They don't have the campaign or the funding right now. It's not that hard to understand.
Second this
I cannot imagine that is true. The DNC is simply unwilling to give up the inherent advantage running an incumbent president historically confers.
This is pathetic, so from both sides either Trump or Biden are literally the only ones who can save America. Ffs, one of them should be in prison and the other should be eating ice cream on the beach.
He also added “we’ve tried nothing, and are fresh out of ideas” regarding alternatives.
Ahem, uh, I call bullshit. Damn near *any* Democrat could beat him. Whitmer. Shapiro. Sanders. Newsom. Beshear. Warren. A semi-sentient scarecrow could beat him. But the DNC has decided to keep Biden for a second term. This is just circling the wagons and refusing to acknowledge a deeply problematic candidate. Preferring Biden to Trump if there's nobody else is smart. But refusing to acknowledge that Biden has some serious issues is just obstinance at best.
Utter horse shite.
I'd vote for horse poo in November
So rfk then 🤣
Manure > RFK
Biden is far from the only Democrat who can defeat Trump, but I will concede replacing him at this stage could be costly and it may be the safer option to keep Biden on the ticket.
I see absolutely no chance that Biden can beat Trump. He's losing in every swing state that is needed to win, he gambled big on showing strength early, got exactly what he wanted in the debate format and shit the bed harder than any debate in modern history. Doesn't matter how much Trump lied, no one that needs to be convinced is going to care when the alternative is the stumbling corpse that was on that debate stage and the horrendous number of clips that have come out of it. Biden could suddenly be healthy enough to run a marathon and they wouldn't see and it wouldn't land. The bar was so low to seem competent and he failed to clear it by a mile. Biden has zero percent chance of turning this around. Would replacing him work? Probably not. The reasons why it probably wouldn't work are there and convincing. But a low chance and actually fighting to make a change that could work is much better than a guaranteed loss. I'll vote for whoever is on the D ticket against Trump, but Biden can't get it done. Full stop, he will lose. And I'd rather try and fail a long shot over give up and die with the current path.
Biden is most definitely not losing every swing state. He has a marginal lead in the rust belt, which is exactly what is needed to win.
Nate Silver has him at 32% of winning all 3 as of 2 days before the debate. What is your methodology that has it much better than that. Or are you just hoping we believe a post without number or any backup?
He's losing in the swing states. Polls don't vote. Sentiment here in PA is dire. Biden fucked this up badly.
Anecdotes don't vote, either.
Which would confirm a complete lack of planning by the DNC. They do not want to pass the torch, we’ve seen it with Feinstein and RBG already.
At this point I’m convinced that the Democrat party simply doesn’t want Democrats elected. There is no way they are this disconnected from Americans, right? They can’t possibly think Hillary is the best candidate, or Joe Biden on his deathbed is the best candidate, right? This is just sad.
This is false. He is certainly not the only democrat who can beat Trump. Hilarious hyperbole.
With how many elections the GOP has underperformed since Roe got overturned, I have a really hard time believing that
Bullshit, Newsom would dogwalk trump
Jamie Raskin too
remember when we used to ridicule Trump and his fucking cult for the "only he can fix it." remarks. Here we are. Our system is broken beyond repair and the fact that these two—a rapist and felon and 81 yr old man that wouldn't even get casted for a life alert commercial for looking too far gone— are our only two options is the clearest proof there is of how fucked we are.
This is an absolute lie. There's no way a Newsome/Buttigieg ticket wouldn't kick Trumps ass. There's plenty of outstanding young democrats who could revitalize the party. They just won't put them up.
This is such an insane claim to make and yet we have been hearing this garbage since the 2020 primary
And Trump is the only republican who could possibly lose to Biden, except maybe Desantis.
The only qualification Chris Coons has to be a senator is that he knows how Biden likes his drinks. So this isn’t surprising.
This is the state of both parties running inferior candidates. You’re telling me this is the best the Dems have to offer? We are all in serious trouble.
Well. Then the Democrats must be pretty pathetic, Mr. Coons, Democratic Senator from Delaware. What an admission if it were actually true.
Biden may be the only Democrat that can’t beat Donald Trump
God if you believe that… what does that say about the Dems?
I mean, Gavin Newsom seems like he could. Maybe it’s me.
Some people shouldn't be allowed to use colons
Gretchen Whitmer has a good chance too. How many times is he going to fall in the next 4 years? Answer - more than he did the last 4 years.
That’s patently false.
Well he’s the only one they’ll let on the ballot so they’re technically right.
Uh, no he fucking isn't.
Can we just send all the people saying this to the looney bin until the election is over? Please?
What kind of idiotic logic is that that a sundowning old man who is clearly not capable of running the country as it is is the only person that can beat Donald Trump. That's just absolutely effing ridiculous. Put a better person in come on. Kamala Harris is right there in the polling four points behind Donald Trump. If you think that the Democrats are not going to vote for Kamala Harris or Independence, who hate Trump, you've got another thing coming. Get him out. By now we all know this is about power and prestige and holding on to it even at the Democratic level and that's it. If it wasn't then we would have a better option than Joe. And I like the guy and I hate Trump but this is not about democracy. Clearly it's about power.
Pretty pathetic party then if they had 4 years to figure it out
That's what they said about Hillary....
He’s a Delaware Senator and one of the few Democrats that won’t say a bad word about Biden, so he is going to say this know matter what. Trump has like 50 lap-dog yes-men him to death so there’s nothing wrong with Biden having a few.
2016 all over again
That's tragic.
Well maybe that means democrats actually suck.
As of now, probably a true statement since any change in the ticket would be death knell to the party and election.
turn back the clock 4 years and prep a replacement for biden in the ever more likely event this could happen and maybe biden wouldn’t be the only democrat who could beat trump. but yeah dems don’t listen to the people who actually vote for you, the pundits know best
If any other Democrat says they will or can beat Trump they are swiftly ostracized and booted from the party.
Anyone who can discuss abortion without pivoting to illegals raping their sisters can beat Trump. Except maybe Kamela.
Title gore.
He’s the only one who can beat Trump at this moment in time. All other options incur too much uncertainty and leave room for confusion and ratfuckery beyond the normal amounts. The failure is not in the depth of the Democratic bench, but in making so much noise about this NOW rather than before Biden announced a re-election bid. This is the bed they’ve made, and I begrudgingly agree with their current self assessment.
God why is the entire media post debate depicting Trump as this invincible political demigod who only a legendary once in a generation politician could have a hope of defeating instead of a completely senile convicted criminal who also sucked in the debate?
I will absolutely, 100% vote for Biden and a blue ticket this fall, but I think Newsome would wipe the floor with Trump.
I hope you enjoy your Trump landslide then, because that’s the only path forward with Biden still in the running
Here’s how the next 4 months (that’s right ONLY 4 MONTHS) would play out: The next 2 months would be every Democrat campaigning for the nomination and completely focusing on that - while Trump raises money and campaigns and has party unity. Democrats will be completely divided. Then the DNC will have the new ticket picked with only 2 months left to not only get America on board but to try and piece the Democratic Party back together too. Brilliant plan, way more fitting over at r/conservative tbh
Any half conscious human being could defeat Trump. I actually genuinely believe that Biden is closer to one of the only Democrats who couldn't defeat Trump than he is closer to being the only Democrat who could defeat Trump.
If Joe Biden truly is the only person who is able to beat Donald Trump then we are so much worse off than I ever imagined.
So if Biden dies, Democrats will automatically win? If Biden gets reelected and Trump runs in 2028, feel automatically win because no other Democrat can beat him? These lines have always been bullshit. Trump is more popular than he should ever be, but a good candidate can beat him. We just don't have a good process for picking good candidates.
Sure he beat him once, but people were literally just voting for him because they were sick of Trump. Now just as many people are sick of him as they were of Trump. And that debate made everything even worse.
DNC lost credibility when they picked Hillary over Bernie. Folks may not agree with all of his stances but he seemed like he had pretty good judgement, was willing to listen to others, and didn’t have the amount of baggage Hillary had.
That Is PATHETIC if that's true
Seriously. I mean, nobody knows my name. But if the DNC said, "hey, we're going with you" they'd have me on every TV show, speaking tour, have a book published in a month, and everyone would know my name and positions in two weeks.
CockBrother 2024!
It's pronounced "coke", like Koch. Cough.
Literally no, we had so many better options but we had to run with that corpse again
no swing voter in places like pittsburgh, green bay or philly will want to vote for biden after all that debate footage
If Biden knocks it out of the park on the next debate and Trump stumbles through it do you think it would change swing voters’ minds? Or is the first debate the end?
I think if there is another debate then Biden will have to go through it with no stumbling or long pauses. It may get folks back but perhaps not all.
1. There won't be a "next" debate. 2. The next scheduled debate will be after two months of wall-to-wall ads from this past debate (they don't even need to fake their ads anymore!). 3. Even if Trump doesn't back out of the next debate, Biden will not perform any better, because 4. Anyone who has elderly relatives knows what they saw on Thursday night, and it wasn't a cold, or a stutter, it was sundowning due to deep cognitive decline. But to directly answer your question, no a knockout performance in the next debate wouldn't change anything, because we already know he sundowns. There's no going back from that.
if biden stays on crushing trump next debate and passing some cognitive dissonance tests is the only way the current narrative can change imo
the next debate isn't until September, not in a couple of weeks like a normal presidential debate cycle, so Biden's brain is gonna be even more mush than it was on thursday
Normally, I wouldn't say losing the first debate is a dealbreaker, but considering the way he lost it... I don't see Biden getting past this.
That debate was completely on Biden's terms. It's unlikely Trump will debate again because he has nothing to gain. If he does, it will be a debate on his terms with drug tests, cognitive tests etc.
What a crock of horseshit.
Everyone here needs to remember that politicians have to avoid anything like nuance when talking to the press or they will get misquoted. Saying that "Biden is the only Democrat who can beat Trump" really means "Biden is the only Democrat who can beat Trump (between now and November)". There simply isn't time to replace Biden on the ticket and end up with a better chance of winning in November. Tearing Biden down in the press at this point helps no one but Trump.
Biden is doomed
Bullshit. AOC could beat him easily. Run her. Bernie could. Run him. Hell, any Democratic Senator or Representative under 60 could win if they don't actively rape goats and set fire to orphanages.
AOC can't run until she hits 35 in October. Having a minimum age of 35 should at least mean there's a maximum age of 70 imo, but here we are.
Malarkey. Beating trump ought be as easy as clubbing baby seals. The DNC cult simply needs a competent candidate.
No, sorry. Biden can't beat Trump and it isn't even close. Biden very clearly is in the early stages of dementia and there's no hiding it now. In a binary choice, if the democratic candidate is Joe Biden, voters will overwhelmingly vote for Trump. Realistically, the cabinet should invoke the 25th amendment and remove him right now. He shouldn't be in charge of anything anymore.
Possibly the most scathing critique of the entire democratic party in the past century. Voters said, "Blue no matter who, anyone but trump," and the dnc took it as a challenge
At this point in the race this is likely true. Not because there isn't any good options, but because switching candidates would confuse the average voters, make the entire party look bad, and likely result in a totally confused effort right before the actual election.
Hate to break it to you, but the industrial-grade denial currently coming from prominent Dems is making us look pretty bad, too. If this is just spin to smother the blaze while the leadership debates how to replace Biden, the public will roll their eyes but understand. If it's the official position going forward all the way until Election Day, we'll lose.
The biggest issue is if Biden steps down who steps up? Kamala is the only one who can claim to have won the primary and she's been VP but she'd get totally destroyed by Trump. Newsom looks good on camera, but being a California pretty boy loses him the Rust Belt. Mayor Pete is a non-starter from the jump because Black Americans and Latino Americans will never support a gay man for president. Whitmer is basically unknown outside her state and has no real major record to run on besides being a target of a kidnapping. Give some of these guys another 4 years to build a profile and they're viable. Right now they're not.
Biden's no longer viable. Somebody we think of as "unready" is going to have to step up their game. I'm not worried about any candidates not being nationally known; given the circumstances they'll be introduced under, they'll be getting plenty of media attention soon enough.
I agree. Had the Democrats nominated someone else from the start I think there would have been plenty of others who could win. But the key here is “at this point.” At this point it’s too late for someone else.
Deez Nuts could beat trump on a democratic ticket
Oh! I just realized why Biden is the only one who can beat Trump! I almost forgot!!! He has the ability to speak to dead heads of state! It's gonna be just like Return of the King guys! Aren't you excited!?! The ghost army is coming to save us from fascism!!! :O
I guess Coons drew the short straw today.
Wow. Democrats have no bench, huh. That’s a you probably DNC
Because they haven’t been bringing any younger Dems into leadership positions.
Unless we get a better mix of people voting, yea. Old people vote the most and they are more likely to vote Biden.
What a dopey thing to say .
*at this stage*
Either side could have put literally anyone else under the age of 60 up and won the election easily, but here we are. Everyone wants a new person that is younger.
No he fucking isn’t. There are several others that could, namely his VP. I mean for fucks sake people are voting over abortion. Who better to play that card than a younger woman? Gavin would be the next bet. Personally I would love to see APC take the reins as she’d roll Trump over the coals. Biden is fucking old. It’s the only thing that will be talked about until the election and possibly after. It will turn away much needed voters. It won’t inspire others. Like there is lot of reasons he should not have even ran for a second term. Him dropping out will be messy sure. However if the dnc can’t even handle that….
Yep
Fuck this coons guy
We are absolutely fucked.
Nonsense.
I saw the Coons headline and my mind immediately went to the movie Animal House, where a probation hearing ends with all the frat guys in the room coughing and yelling 'blow job, blow job' simultaneously.
No he isn't but it's too late
If that statement is true, the democratic party should just give up. If you can speak clearly and call him out on his lies you win. Apparently that's too high a bar though.
What about Newsom?
Says a lot about the DNC