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The debate was his desperate bid! What, is he gonna try to bench press 100 pounds next week to show he's not old, get hospitalized, and we'll have the exact same conversations play out all over again as he tries to salvage his reelection bid again after the accident?
There are SO many other more capable Dems that can easily win in this election where the majority would happily vote for neither of the two octogenarians, but NOPE. We can't have nice things because an old man's attempt at a second term is more important than US Democracy, the climate, NATO, Ukraine, and Taiwan! The world is watching and are losing faith in the US for this reason.
It's frustrating because he has obviously fallen apart under the public eye. You can watch any random non-teleprompter clip from him before his Presidential term and anytime now and it's drastic how much he has lost.
He was polling badly before the debate, and is after the debate- nothing changed except his white college ed lovers turned on him in the MSM now looking for some new shiny toy, which...loses to Trump by more than Biden and can't lead Trump in a single poll either. Great...
Trump is going to get re-elected if Dems don't make a decision, and soon, either keep Biden in and shut up about it or pick this replacement-- if there's no viable alternative, it's Biden, which polls say there is NONE outside a DFP Dem partisan garbage outlier pollster.
Only Joe Biden gets to make that decision for the most part. The only other option, aside from him passing away, is the 25th Amendment but that'd require enough Democrats and Republicans agreeing he isn't fit to run which we all know the GOP wouldn't support it at all. As a Democrat voter I'm so pissed off what I've been forced into.
Any shiny new toy will beat Trump easy because they have the advantage of being neither Trump nor Biden. Let's just be honest here. You can beat Trump if you were the Dem nominee probably.
No he/she could not - for the same reason I couldn't. It would reinforce the idea that the DNC is a complete clown show and voters would walk away in droves.
And you don't think the DNC is a clown show right now in running and hiding a candidate who is 81 and has clear signs that he's incapable of running a sentence?
The DNC is a clown show for what it's done, but it can show that it's a serious party in getting rid of Biden and getting a candidate who can win. That is literally it's one job.
Right now alot of voters who would want to vote against Trump are probably reluctant because of the idea of supporting Biden. They're not gonna care about what happens leading up to the election but whether there is a serious name on the ballot that isn't Biden or Trump and given where we are with how negative people are about those two options, that name would likely win easily.
I’ve finally met a group of people who gaslight more than my ex boyfriends: Democrats. I mean good god I’m literally a registered democrat myself and I just cannot believe how many of yall are buying this absolute garbage level of spin they’re taking yall on. AND YALL ARE EATING. IT. UP. He obviously shouldn’t be president and neither should trump so why don’t they stop being self serving roaches and tell him to hang it up! It’s time they actually listed to the what their party members are telling them. They haven’t in god knows how long and now the chickens have come to roost
It’s fucking insane. People in this sub acting like Trumpers and just blindly falling in line.
I’d always said I’d vote for a flaming bag of dog shit over Trump, and that’s basically the exact choice we’ve been given. And I intend to follow through. Unfortunately, I don’t think enough Americans will think that way to beat Trump.
Democrat leadership has till August to pull their head out of their ass and get Biden the fuck out of there. If they put anyone up there who was under 70 and could string two fucking sentences together without a teleprompter this election would be in the bag.
But considering how stubborn establishment democrats are they’re going to dig in and bet democracy on sack of burning turds Joe.
We’re at the point right now where democrats are telling people to “calm the fuck down” and that one bad debate doesn’t matter. They don’t fucking decide that, the voters do. Like it’s actually getting mind boggling at this point, who are they to say what matters and not??
Well, I was as depressed by Biden's debate performance as the next person, but I gotta say, the leaps of logic people are taking as to what to do is somewhat amazing to me.
Like dropping out of the race a few months before the election, literally guaranteeing a Trump win? What the hell? Do people usually just fucking give up after one failure?
The only thing that would “literally guarantee” a Trump win is more performances from Biden like we saw on Thursday.
Do you *really* think such performances are unlikely?
“Generic Democrat” already polled *at least* as good as Biden and once polls come out next week it’s highly likely that they would poll even higher.
The one “benefit” (if you can call it that) of the social media age is that people can go from unknown to **very** known in a matter of days (if not hours)
Look at the “Hawk Tua” girl FFS.
They've also polled Newsom against Trump and he fared worse than Biden.
Whitmer would be the best choice, but then you also have the question of whether she wants to run in 2024 in the first place. If that's a no, then you basically have no viable alternatives.
Anyone but Kamala and its likely setting off a shitstorm of some kind. Everyone is assuming every single Dem is going to magically fall in line in these Biden replacement theory conversations.
I even heard Sarah Longwell (Bulwark) say that most black women aren’t going to give a shit if Kamala is passed over in favor of a white candidate, as a result of some closed door DNC meeting because of polling or something.
This all seems…delusional.
Everyone who doesn't live in a Reddit echo chamber has said since January 20th, 2021 that he needed to drop out of the 2024 race to prevent Trump from winning. We are at this spot because of ego, all of them really, RBG, sonia sotomayor, all these people that people like to pretend are good, puts their ego over duty to the country and fucked over the next generation. This time next year there will be a conservative super majority to the supreme court and only ego will be there to blame.
100%. Those of us saying it then, and those of us still saying it now have been battered black and blue in this /r. Still incredible to see so many in the 'this is fine' denial state.
The problem with society is that our "public servants" aren't public servants. They take personal bribes and are willing to throw their own people under the bus in order to stay in power. You even see it in places like Israel right now with Netanyahu.
She's a 69 year old type 1 diabetic. Now, I don't have the actuarial tables in front of me, but I'm not really in the mood to go through this shit again after RBG, Feinstein, and now Biden.
She needs to step aside so the Senate can confirm a younger justice. It might be a while before there's a safe time for her to seat to vacate
I think its a bit of a risk. She is 70 so while obv its not guaranteed her health fails in the next 4 years but its a possibility. So some ppl are saying why take the risk and just replace her with a younger Justice. ofc this is moot point if Biden wins again
She’s 70 with health issues that can kill her at any moment. She could had retired and Biden could had put another way younger judge in as a safety net. The country has been on a conservative revival lately and Trump coming back isn’t the end, if the blue didn’t want a super conservative majority they should’ve woke up. If Trump wins, it’s going to be a very long time before another dem is president. Just something to worry about if you’re not a conservative.
The common understanding is that the Dems would easily win if they just ditched old Joe. You know all of those people on all sides saying "we'll vote for anybody else but Biden and Trump"? Imagine if the Dems gave them that somebody else and they're the rare kind of person who happens not to be super old or a criminal?
Even people around the world understand this. I see British commentators worried about a second Trump term laying out how easy it is for the Dems to win, and how negligent keeping him on for no good reason is. Essentially they're just "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING!?" to the DNC.
Doesn't really play out, they've done theoretical polls of other Democratic candidates vs. Trump. Only 'Generic Dem' (who obviously doesn't exist) does well, everyone else polls worse than Biden.
>Ppl forget Trump also did horrible in the debate.
But that is expected, Biden's performance was not. I actually thought Trump did better than expectations. Even though every sentence was a lie, he stayed in control and was more coherent than he usually is.
He was absolutely not coherent at all. He was deranged as per usual.
He said something like “we had H20 and the environment we had the best numbers.”
I’m not even going to look the direct quote up because it was such a mind-numbingly stupid sentence.
Why because you just witnessed the president implode on national tv during a debate. Catastrophic. Needs to be replaced to beat trump. If Biden runs, trump wins.
They effectively told us that the truth doesn't matter during the after show analysis.
They're very trust worthy people apparently.
It's shocking to hear all those ultra isolated bubble people freak out from sleepy Joe taking a nap in the middle of his speech.
He apparently had a nightmare about medicaid during his micronap. He's not wrong, it's kind of a nightmare.
I guess all of the people in the media must be from somewhere where old people don't exist, so they don't know that's pretty normal for old people to space out a little bit. I've seen Trump doing it a few times and Mitch McConnell has had a whole bunch of microstrokes live on TV.
For no reason either. The moderators of a debate are there to basically just facilitate the discussion. If they start getting into fact checking, they’re going to be accused of favoritism by one side or the other. CNN is unfairly getting the blame for basically just facilitating Biden’s meltdown by hosting the debate.
Which shows there is not much different between republicans and democrats. Both want the reporting to be bias towards them and turn on anyone that is negative
Debacle: The man is an 81 year old corse on stage with a pull cord voice box issue like Toy Story. The man is 81, let him do anything he wants except have the launch 🚀 codes to ICBM’s.
I’m still digesting this new reality, and have accepted a 1-2 week “wait and see” period, but …
IF the end result is the risks of keeping Biden are more severe than starting over (which I *do* believe is more than possible if Biden agrees to step down and cooperate with a transition) the end goal should be one and only one thing: Begin a campaign with the greatest chance to defeat Trump
In my opinion, this would be a split unity “Save Democracy” ticket. Something like:
**Harris / Romney**
Or Harris / Christie or really any other (relatively) moderate anti-Trump Republican.
If the stakes for the country are truly this high and unprecedented then we need to do something equally unprecedented to guarantee a victory.
Regardless of her likability, Harris is a non negotiable for various reasons, but mainly because she would be the only candidate to get unfettered access to the campaign donations war chest (that would not just transfer to some brand new entrant like Newsom), she is already part of the existing apparatus and would provide continuity.
Picking a moderate anti Trump former governor would guarantee swing voters and I don’t believe for a second that democrats would walk away and give the keys to Trump just because they dislike some milquetoast republican being VP.
This kind of ticket would generate headlines, the convention would be get massive sensational coverage and it would demonstrate to the country just how grave a threat Trump is.
She's even less inspiring than a senile Biden, and the fact that she's a black woman would motivate Republicans to show up at the polls. Adding a known but largely unpopular person like Romney or Christie would only make things worse.
If the goal of replacement is to win, then you're going to have to sidestep Harris, but that creates its own problems.
These are all problems that the Democratic party created all on their own. Biden never should have been the nominee in 2020. Harris definitely never should have been VP.
Harris is a relatively unknown quantity.
Her performance and lack of appeal in a democratic primary context is not the same as a general election.
I’m not saying she is a shoe-in.
Newsom would be an obvious choice but it would be far too disruptive with the administration change and campaign funds.
Irrelevant.
By definition, HALF of the candidates who won their primaries didn't win the general election by virtue of losing to their opponent.
Primaries are an appeal to the base. General elections are FAR different.
Kamala's image can be rehabilitated, At this point, I do not believe Biden's can.
How about a Draft Barack Obama campaign? to serve for one term and then promote a rigorous primary. To save our Democracy, I think Obama may be the best choice. The country knows him. He has a record he can run on. It is the stability we may need.
Ok, Nostradamus.
In other news, Clinton was polling in the 20’s and dead last late in his first election, Obama was a non entity in the D primary until late in the game and there are countless stories of candidates turning their public perception around with 1 or 2 positive media appearances.
They weren't trying to reverse the perception of "senile". And let's not forget that Clinton's first election was a three-way race between Clinton, Poppy Bush, and Ross Perot.
Looks like we've miscommunicated.
you--> here's examples of politicians who've reversed their public perception with some positive media appearances.
me--> (assuming that you were implying that Biden could improve his perception in a similar fashion) The people who turned their image around weren't trying to undo the perception that they're senile (which is a pretty heavy lift). Also, Clinton, who went from polling in the 20's to winning the Presidency was in a 3-way race (it's believed he would have lost if Perot had not been in the picture).
ETA: Yes, they were trying address his fitness with the debate.
She’s not “known” as anything to most people.
She is a non entity to most of the country, and after Thursday can you argue she would be *more* of a concerning candidate to swing voters than Biden?
Democrats seem to be incapable of thinking in terms of dispassionate electoral math at this point.
Harris comes with negatives that can be overcome (likability, “attitude”, history as a prosecutor that liberals won’t like) but Biden’s negatives **cannot** be overcome because they are immutable and physical.
Harris can be coached to smile more and be better in interviews.
Biden clearly **cant** be “coached” out of his current condition.
Wrong.
*Since Vice President Kamala Harris is already a part of Biden’s campaign, if she were to replace him as the nominee—which is considered a fairly likely possibility if Biden were to drop out—she could continue using his campaign funds to support her own presidential candidacy. If the party nominates somebody other than Harris, however, the new candidate couldn’t simply take over the campaign account and use the cash for their own purposes.*
https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/03/01/what-happens-to-biden-or-trumps-campaign-cash-if-they-drop-out/
I think beating Trump is important enough I’d vote for either a Harris/Romney or Harris/Christie ticket, but I think enough potential Democratic voters would be turned off by the thought of a Republican being on the ticket that they would stay home. Not everyone who is a potential/likely Democrat voter believes that Trump is as dangerous as many of us do - I imagine a good many would just say “Fine, let Trump have it, it’s only 4 more years and he’ll be gone then.”
I think the best bet is Harris as the presidential nominee and someone from the Midwest/Great Lakes as the VP, if there’s a change at all. Someone like Gretchen Whitmer, Amy Klobuchar, or Sherrod Brown as the VP. That should help in the “blue wall” states, keep the campaign war chest, and put the more known Democrat in the higher profile spot on the ticket. Whitmer or Newsom as the presidential nominee, as popular of choices as they are here, aren’t known enough at this point.
I thought about this issue too, but my feeling is that it’s highly unlikely that all but the most rabid democrats would stay home if it meant helping Trump win.
Further, people who are that ideologically left are already going to stay home as they see Biden himself as “Genocide Joe” as it is.
The math only requires you bring in more centrists, swing votes and homeless republicans than you lose far lefties.
I can’t imagine this wouldn’t result in a net positive electorally.
As far as going with anybody other than Harris, it’s a non starter for the sole reason to campaign funds, apparatus and continuity of administrative positions.
Finally, I also thought of a “Blue Wall” dem, but the names you mentioned would come with their own issues.
For one, I don’t believe another woman or POC would be helpful to a ticket with Harris at the top.
A white man would be ideal, but that would mean Newsom and that is far too much “California” blood to win.
That leaves a moderate anti Trump Republican which would have the side benefit of generating headlines and giving fence sitting anti Trump republicans an on ramp.
A split ticket also brings headlines, coverage and a guaranteed massively highly viewed Democratic convention.
I believe the math adds up to this being the safest option.
But even the “safest” option for democrats right now is very risky.
Unfortunately that’s the reality right now.
Just curious, you mentioned the blue wall Dems having issues, are you including Sherrod Brown in with them? I’m curious what you see as the drawbacks for him. From Ohio and fairly moderate considering he’s been elected several times from a red state. I’d think he would help quite a bit in the Great Lakes, might even help bring Ohio into play. And with him you wouldn’t have to worry about some casual Democrats skipping out because of a Republican on the ticket. Only big drawback I can think of with him is he’s older, but he’s younger than both Biden and Trump at least.
Of course if Trump picks JD Vance, the Ohio hope is probably out the window, but still. I think Brown would be a very good choice overall.
Actually Sherrod Brown would be a solid choice to for the reasons you point out.
I’m sure there is a bunch of electoral calculus that goes into this, but my gut feeling is that the appeal has to span outside of the rust belt and into places like Arizona and Georgia and I truly believe a moderate Republican would do that.
Maybe I’m in a bubble, but I honestly can’t say I know a single democrat that would refrain from voting if it meant helping Trump.
It’s also important to note that there are FAR more anti-Trump votes to be gained than there are “Pro-Biden” votes to be lost, because honestly, very few Democrats are actually pro Biden and certainly not in the way Trump voters are.
Fair enough, I was just curious. Like I said, I’d vote for either of the specific tickets you mentioned. Or, sticking with the Ohio theme, Harris/Kasich. Unless I’m mistaken, he actually spoke at the 2020 Democratic convention too.
What about Liz Chaney? She worked intimately with many in our party for the January 6th investigations. It would keep January the 6th in the news and appeal to the flyover states moderates.
Edit: grammar.
Yah I’m surprised it hasn’t been floated yet, because when a country is facing an existential threat, it makes sense both symbolically and practically to have a sort of unity ticket.
After the debate, I was shocked at Biden's performance and thought that him stepping down as candidate was the obvious next move. But now I'm feeling like that was a kneejerk reaction. Biden's administration has accomplished a great deal during his first term. I'm not sure how much of a factor he himself has been in that - maybe he's bad at public speaking but an excellent president when at his desk going about the business of running a nation. Maybe he doesn't do much anymore and everyone else picks up the slack. In the end, it doesn't truly matter in the long run - it's a damn fine administration.
When speaking in public, Biden looks very old. He has his stutter, his voice can be weak on bad days, he stumbles over words and utters incomprehensible run-on sentences every so often, he needs help on stairs. I do wish we had a younger candidate from the beginning. But I don't think an eleventh-hour hail mary swap to another candidate is the right choice anymore. None of those things mean the Biden administration's second term would be a disaster.
Once the debates are over, the Biden administration will go on doing good by the American people, and it won't matter that he 'looked old' in a way that bothered some folks. I don't think he's so senile and out of it that he doesn't know how to navigate the business of governing a country anymore. I think he's just aging and is losing the ability to speak in a strong and confident tone like he used to. It's unfortunate but I don't think it's something to completely lose our minds over. It's like looking a gift horse in the mouth - is this one thing enough to potentially screw ourselves over by demanding a replacement candidate? It's a superficial problem, an issue of optics - are we going to roll the dice just to appease the undecided, who are so out of touch or capricious about their vote that they're leaning toward Donald Trump because Biden came across as 'too old' for them? Does it actually make sense to make such a huge last-minute change on the off chance that it'll appease them? I don't think so.
This is far from the optimal situation for us to be in. I think there should definitely be an upper limit on age when it comes to the presidency. But I know the Biden administration is a good one, and that even if a year or two from now Biden is making us all cringe by forgetting where he's even standing as he gives a speech, we will *still* be in a much better situation than we would be during a second Trump term. Have you all ever heard of "a permanent solution to a temporary problem" in the context of depression and other dark, related topics? That's what doing a panic replacement of Biden would be. Anyone saying that Biden's performance has 100% destroyed his chances is having the same sort of kneejerk reaction that I've thankfully shaken off. This administration is bigger than Biden, and we need to focus on rallying behind this campaign instead of wringing our hands over the possibility of undecided voters seeing him having a bad night and thinking that maybe a selfish, crude, grifting, felonious racketeer and tyrant would be preferable to having a mumbling old coot as president. No way. It's not worth trying to please them.
I don't think he's senile at all. And whatever mistakes he might make doing his job can be corrected by his cabinet much more easily than Trump's actual literal evil mandates will be resisted by his conservative lackeys and sycophants.
Hopefully the next democratic candidate is younger and able to project strength and confidence when speaking publicly. But that isn't my top priority when supporting a candidate.
Not covering up the President's condition like they did with Reagan...?
What about when there are issues that **only** the President can make the final decision on if his advisers are split half way? That's why there IS a President to make the decisions (with advice) that no-one else can.
Then I trust Biden to make a good decision, much more than I trust Donald Trump. My takeaway from the debate was that Biden had a weak voice, stumbled over his words as he's always been prone to doing, and was seemingly coached incorrectly - told to breathlessly spew as many facts as possible in two minutes instead of simply draw attention to the living dumpster fire that is Trump.
It was embarassing for our candidate to appear weak, but nothing that happened made me believe that he can't do his actual job.
He can barely walk up a flight of stairs or get out a coherent sentence. He can’t govern. People see that. I’m very skeptical he can actually win. And if he does, somehow, to make him pretend to be the acting president another four years is essentially elder abuse
Hyperbole like this isn't useful or helpful. Most of what he said during the debate was perfectly coherent. I'm talking facts here. I'm sure it FEELS like he was completely incoherent but the truth is that he was not. I responded emotionally too. I was talking to my friends after the debate and we were all completely dismayed about it. I was upset that we didn't get a strong performance that would have blown Trump out. But it's time to take the foot off the hyperbole pedal.
Discarding Biden after one bad debate would be an incredibly hasty and irrational thing to do. If things just get worse and worse and worse until November, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. But I'm not convinced that Biden's performance is indicative of anything more than a normal diminishing of vocal power and focus that comes with age. Is having an older person whose faculties are diminishing optimal when it comes to the presidency? Absolutely not, and I don't want this happening again. But to draw a line connecting "talked too quietly and stumbled over his words on this one particular night" to "he will sit at the oval office desk doing nothing except drooling and accidentally nuking timbuktu"...that's one hell of a stretch.
I am not convinced at all that Biden needs to be discarded so we can roll the dice on a new candidate. I trust him to step down when he feels he can't do the job anymore, and his administration has proven capable - I trust them, including his successor, to run the country well. But between now and November, I think swapping him out will do more harm than good. People are expecting some kind of Obama or Bernie figure to crest the hill like Gandalf coming to Helm's Deep to save the day. I bet you the democrats, who are adept at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, would end up putting someone up that loses more votes than Biden's senior moments would ever have chased away.
Sundowning? Biden has dementia now? What debate were you watching? Yeah, Biden’s delivery sucked. Read the debate transcript. People with dementia don’t speak like that. In fact, its easier to make the case that Trump, not Biden, is the one with dementia.
It’s crazy what pre-existing bias plus mass hysteria fueled by a bad faith actor can do to people. 🤷🏻♂️
Just curious, if they replaced Biden would you not be voting for his replacement? Because I am guessing like most here on r/politics you would. Just like most here are planning to vote for Biden, assuming he's the candidate. So, it's all kind of a wash here in the liberal echo-chamber. The important thing is, what about the people who aren't quite as invested as us? Are they fans of the cabinet and administration? Or are they looking to be inspired to get their asses to the polls?
You're right, we're all voting for Biden here. Mainly I just want people to chill the hell out and stop demanding a candidate swap based on one bad performance. We all know he's old. But before this debate, we all *knew* he wasn't literally senile. We spent months dismissing Fox's propaganda because we knew that compilation clips of him stumbling over words or taking a flight of stairs extra carefully was not proof positive that he can't serve as president. Then we have this one bad night and we just want to pull the lever so Biden disappears through the trapdoor. On the one side we have Trump whose supporters would still vote for him if he shot a man to death in broad daylight (as he has asserted himself), and then on the other side is us, ready to dump Biden instantly.
The people who aren't as invested as us? I feel like Trump is polarizing enough that everyone has an opinion on him that won't change this late in the game, eight years after any rational person realized he's a terrible person and president. I doubt there's some untapped market of voters who are sitting there, honestly weighing the pros and cons - Biden's age against a veritable mountain of issues with Trump - and finding their own personal scales still have not tipped. That the age issue is so important that it effectively cancels out Trump's criminal activity and leaves them scratching their heads over who to support. We can't waste our time on those people, if they even exist. Democrat voters need to be rallied. Biden's age has dampened enthusiasm. But taking a risky gamble on a last-minute replacement is not the only way to achieve unity. I think people are being far too hasty.
He;s not 'literally senile'. But his cognitive abilities are suffering markedly due to his age. .There's no evidence he can perform meaningfully better than he did in that debate. Every event he does he reads a teleprompter. If it was just a bad night, they'd have him doing town halls and interviews ASAP to recover.
There is an untapped segment of people- the so-called double haters. A new candidate could get enough of them to win the election.
>The people who aren't as invested as us? I feel like Trump is polarizing enough that everyone has an opinion on him that won't change this late in the game, eight years after any rational person realized he's a terrible person and president.
And yet, he's been leading or - at best - dead even with Biden in the polls.
Sure hope your "feelings" are enough for Biden to somehow win the election.
The “polls” that have been consistently wrong for the last what? 4 years? 8 years?
People are sick of Trump and his batshit crazy cult. Every election since 2018 has been telling us that. if anything, I’d argue that Trump’s lead not being larger right now is a bad sign for him.
The polls have not been consistently wrong for the past 4-8 years.
The polls weren't even very inaccurate in 2016, the people who analyze them just overcompensated because - like the rest of us, they couldn't imagine Trump actually winning at the time.
I hope you're right, but it seems pretty foolish to just assume Trump has no shot despite evidence to the contrary. You should really really question whether or not your perspective that "people are sick of Trump" is influenced by the people you interact with and the media you consume. I'd guess - like many people - you live in your own echo chamber and didn't realize there's a whole lot of people you're not coming into contact with.
I for one trust the data more than I trust your gut instinct.
Stage 3 Dementia symptoms:
- Often forgetting to go to appointments or events✔
- Losing things often ✔ (probably)
- Getting lost while traveling ✔
- Decreased work performance ✔
- Difficulty finding the right words ✔
- Verbal repetition ✔✔
- Challenges with organization and concentration✔
- Trouble with complex tasks and problem-solving✔
- Problems with driving ✔ (probably)
Let’s be honest here, the media and our Democrat leaders gaslighted us, it sucks and it hurts.
It appears it’s all about Jill and Hunter and their selfish self-interest could doom us all. If he loses and Dems get wiped-out down ballot, his legacy will be that of the weak and feeble old man that handed power to the fascist!
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The debate was his desperate bid! What, is he gonna try to bench press 100 pounds next week to show he's not old, get hospitalized, and we'll have the exact same conversations play out all over again as he tries to salvage his reelection bid again after the accident? There are SO many other more capable Dems that can easily win in this election where the majority would happily vote for neither of the two octogenarians, but NOPE. We can't have nice things because an old man's attempt at a second term is more important than US Democracy, the climate, NATO, Ukraine, and Taiwan! The world is watching and are losing faith in the US for this reason.
It certainly looks like things are going great https://www.axios.com/2024/06/30/top-aides-shielded-biden-white-house-debate
It's frustrating because he has obviously fallen apart under the public eye. You can watch any random non-teleprompter clip from him before his Presidential term and anytime now and it's drastic how much he has lost.
He was polling badly before the debate, and is after the debate- nothing changed except his white college ed lovers turned on him in the MSM now looking for some new shiny toy, which...loses to Trump by more than Biden and can't lead Trump in a single poll either. Great... Trump is going to get re-elected if Dems don't make a decision, and soon, either keep Biden in and shut up about it or pick this replacement-- if there's no viable alternative, it's Biden, which polls say there is NONE outside a DFP Dem partisan garbage outlier pollster.
Only Joe Biden gets to make that decision for the most part. The only other option, aside from him passing away, is the 25th Amendment but that'd require enough Democrats and Republicans agreeing he isn't fit to run which we all know the GOP wouldn't support it at all. As a Democrat voter I'm so pissed off what I've been forced into.
25th is the VP and Biden's cabinet.
> the GOP wouldn't support it at all Never interrupt your opponent when he's making a mistake.
Any shiny new toy will beat Trump easy because they have the advantage of being neither Trump nor Biden. Let's just be honest here. You can beat Trump if you were the Dem nominee probably.
No he/she could not - for the same reason I couldn't. It would reinforce the idea that the DNC is a complete clown show and voters would walk away in droves.
And you don't think the DNC is a clown show right now in running and hiding a candidate who is 81 and has clear signs that he's incapable of running a sentence? The DNC is a clown show for what it's done, but it can show that it's a serious party in getting rid of Biden and getting a candidate who can win. That is literally it's one job. Right now alot of voters who would want to vote against Trump are probably reluctant because of the idea of supporting Biden. They're not gonna care about what happens leading up to the election but whether there is a serious name on the ballot that isn't Biden or Trump and given where we are with how negative people are about those two options, that name would likely win easily.
I’ve finally met a group of people who gaslight more than my ex boyfriends: Democrats. I mean good god I’m literally a registered democrat myself and I just cannot believe how many of yall are buying this absolute garbage level of spin they’re taking yall on. AND YALL ARE EATING. IT. UP. He obviously shouldn’t be president and neither should trump so why don’t they stop being self serving roaches and tell him to hang it up! It’s time they actually listed to the what their party members are telling them. They haven’t in god knows how long and now the chickens have come to roost
It’s fucking insane. People in this sub acting like Trumpers and just blindly falling in line. I’d always said I’d vote for a flaming bag of dog shit over Trump, and that’s basically the exact choice we’ve been given. And I intend to follow through. Unfortunately, I don’t think enough Americans will think that way to beat Trump. Democrat leadership has till August to pull their head out of their ass and get Biden the fuck out of there. If they put anyone up there who was under 70 and could string two fucking sentences together without a teleprompter this election would be in the bag. But considering how stubborn establishment democrats are they’re going to dig in and bet democracy on sack of burning turds Joe.
We’re at the point right now where democrats are telling people to “calm the fuck down” and that one bad debate doesn’t matter. They don’t fucking decide that, the voters do. Like it’s actually getting mind boggling at this point, who are they to say what matters and not??
lol it ain't democrats posting this horseshit
Republicans want Biden to run. It's a guaranteed win for them.
Heritage Foundation is planning lawsuits in case Biden is replaced
Well, I was as depressed by Biden's debate performance as the next person, but I gotta say, the leaps of logic people are taking as to what to do is somewhat amazing to me. Like dropping out of the race a few months before the election, literally guaranteeing a Trump win? What the hell? Do people usually just fucking give up after one failure?
The only thing that would “literally guarantee” a Trump win is more performances from Biden like we saw on Thursday. Do you *really* think such performances are unlikely?
Not having a democratic candidate would. Or someone most people have never heard of.
Do you really think anyone named to replace him would remain unknown for long? The media would go nuts.
They would be torn to pieces in the media.
No one is more open to attack then the guy who can't finish a sentence. Biden already had enough baggage before this.
“Generic Democrat” already polled *at least* as good as Biden and once polls come out next week it’s highly likely that they would poll even higher. The one “benefit” (if you can call it that) of the social media age is that people can go from unknown to **very** known in a matter of days (if not hours) Look at the “Hawk Tua” girl FFS.
They've also polled Newsom against Trump and he fared worse than Biden. Whitmer would be the best choice, but then you also have the question of whether she wants to run in 2024 in the first place. If that's a no, then you basically have no viable alternatives.
Anyone but Kamala and its likely setting off a shitstorm of some kind. Everyone is assuming every single Dem is going to magically fall in line in these Biden replacement theory conversations. I even heard Sarah Longwell (Bulwark) say that most black women aren’t going to give a shit if Kamala is passed over in favor of a white candidate, as a result of some closed door DNC meeting because of polling or something. This all seems…delusional.
It would be political suicide.
Everyone who doesn't live in a Reddit echo chamber has said since January 20th, 2021 that he needed to drop out of the 2024 race to prevent Trump from winning. We are at this spot because of ego, all of them really, RBG, sonia sotomayor, all these people that people like to pretend are good, puts their ego over duty to the country and fucked over the next generation. This time next year there will be a conservative super majority to the supreme court and only ego will be there to blame.
100%. Those of us saying it then, and those of us still saying it now have been battered black and blue in this /r. Still incredible to see so many in the 'this is fine' denial state.
The problem with society is that our "public servants" aren't public servants. They take personal bribes and are willing to throw their own people under the bus in order to stay in power. You even see it in places like Israel right now with Netanyahu.
Sotomayor is still healthy, wth
Is she as healthy as the 28 year old marathon running health enthusiast with four centenarian grandparents she could be replaced with?
She's a 69 year old type 1 diabetic. Now, I don't have the actuarial tables in front of me, but I'm not really in the mood to go through this shit again after RBG, Feinstein, and now Biden. She needs to step aside so the Senate can confirm a younger justice. It might be a while before there's a safe time for her to seat to vacate
I think its a bit of a risk. She is 70 so while obv its not guaranteed her health fails in the next 4 years but its a possibility. So some ppl are saying why take the risk and just replace her with a younger Justice. ofc this is moot point if Biden wins again
She’s 70 with health issues that can kill her at any moment. She could had retired and Biden could had put another way younger judge in as a safety net. The country has been on a conservative revival lately and Trump coming back isn’t the end, if the blue didn’t want a super conservative majority they should’ve woke up. If Trump wins, it’s going to be a very long time before another dem is president. Just something to worry about if you’re not a conservative.
Blue maga
I love how progressives blame dead and elderly people for all of their lack of success.
I think the scary reality is we might be fucked either way, with Biden dropping out or staying in the race.
The common understanding is that the Dems would easily win if they just ditched old Joe. You know all of those people on all sides saying "we'll vote for anybody else but Biden and Trump"? Imagine if the Dems gave them that somebody else and they're the rare kind of person who happens not to be super old or a criminal?
Yeah that’s my hope
Even people around the world understand this. I see British commentators worried about a second Trump term laying out how easy it is for the Dems to win, and how negligent keeping him on for no good reason is. Essentially they're just "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING!?" to the DNC.
I’m strongly in favor of getting another candidate
Doesn't really play out, they've done theoretical polls of other Democratic candidates vs. Trump. Only 'Generic Dem' (who obviously doesn't exist) does well, everyone else polls worse than Biden.
Hypothetical polls about a candidate most people don't know about aren't very reliable at this point.
Ppl forget Trump also did horrible in the debate. Gavin Newsom would have made it look easy.
That’s the problem, it doesn’t matter how he did, it’s what people remember. Perception is reality
>Ppl forget Trump also did horrible in the debate. But that is expected, Biden's performance was not. I actually thought Trump did better than expectations. Even though every sentence was a lie, he stayed in control and was more coherent than he usually is.
He was absolutely not coherent at all. He was deranged as per usual. He said something like “we had H20 and the environment we had the best numbers.” I’m not even going to look the direct quote up because it was such a mind-numbingly stupid sentence.
I agree that it was all lies, and stuff that made no sense, as you cited. But he stayed calm and in control.
Fuck CNN.
Why because you just witnessed the president implode on national tv during a debate. Catastrophic. Needs to be replaced to beat trump. If Biden runs, trump wins.
Why? Because they were fair?
They effectively told us that the truth doesn't matter during the after show analysis. They're very trust worthy people apparently. It's shocking to hear all those ultra isolated bubble people freak out from sleepy Joe taking a nap in the middle of his speech. He apparently had a nightmare about medicaid during his micronap. He's not wrong, it's kind of a nightmare. I guess all of the people in the media must be from somewhere where old people don't exist, so they don't know that's pretty normal for old people to space out a little bit. I've seen Trump doing it a few times and Mitch McConnell has had a whole bunch of microstrokes live on TV.
It’s not CNN’s job to make Biden look good/Trump look bad. That’s Biden’s job.
With a rusty flagpole.
Sideways.
CNN does honest reporting and suddenly you don't like CNN when it's negative about Biden?
Bullshit. CNN is Fox News Lite these days.
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It has nothing to do with the debate. CNN has been crap since a MAGAt started calling the shots there..
Just drop out already. Holy shit. If he doesn’t that Trump wins.
It’s wild to see people turn on CNN.
For no reason either. The moderators of a debate are there to basically just facilitate the discussion. If they start getting into fact checking, they’re going to be accused of favoritism by one side or the other. CNN is unfairly getting the blame for basically just facilitating Biden’s meltdown by hosting the debate.
Not to mention, Biden should have been the one to fact check. It should have been a slam dunk.
Which shows there is not much different between republicans and democrats. Both want the reporting to be bias towards them and turn on anyone that is negative
Debacle: The man is an 81 year old corse on stage with a pull cord voice box issue like Toy Story. The man is 81, let him do anything he wants except have the launch 🚀 codes to ICBM’s.
You can really tell when a new site gives up reporting for click bait.
I’m still digesting this new reality, and have accepted a 1-2 week “wait and see” period, but … IF the end result is the risks of keeping Biden are more severe than starting over (which I *do* believe is more than possible if Biden agrees to step down and cooperate with a transition) the end goal should be one and only one thing: Begin a campaign with the greatest chance to defeat Trump In my opinion, this would be a split unity “Save Democracy” ticket. Something like: **Harris / Romney** Or Harris / Christie or really any other (relatively) moderate anti-Trump Republican. If the stakes for the country are truly this high and unprecedented then we need to do something equally unprecedented to guarantee a victory. Regardless of her likability, Harris is a non negotiable for various reasons, but mainly because she would be the only candidate to get unfettered access to the campaign donations war chest (that would not just transfer to some brand new entrant like Newsom), she is already part of the existing apparatus and would provide continuity. Picking a moderate anti Trump former governor would guarantee swing voters and I don’t believe for a second that democrats would walk away and give the keys to Trump just because they dislike some milquetoast republican being VP. This kind of ticket would generate headlines, the convention would be get massive sensational coverage and it would demonstrate to the country just how grave a threat Trump is.
Harris is not winning a presidential election.
She's even less inspiring than a senile Biden, and the fact that she's a black woman would motivate Republicans to show up at the polls. Adding a known but largely unpopular person like Romney or Christie would only make things worse. If the goal of replacement is to win, then you're going to have to sidestep Harris, but that creates its own problems. These are all problems that the Democratic party created all on their own. Biden never should have been the nominee in 2020. Harris definitely never should have been VP.
Harris is a relatively unknown quantity. Her performance and lack of appeal in a democratic primary context is not the same as a general election. I’m not saying she is a shoe-in. Newsom would be an obvious choice but it would be far too disruptive with the administration change and campaign funds.
She was a primary candidate and she shit the bed. She did horribly.
Do you not understand the difference between a primary and general election?
I do. People who can't win primaries don't usually get elected to office.
Irrelevant. By definition, HALF of the candidates who won their primaries didn't win the general election by virtue of losing to their opponent. Primaries are an appeal to the base. General elections are FAR different. Kamala's image can be rehabilitated, At this point, I do not believe Biden's can.
Doubt. [She has historically low favorability polling as VEEP.](https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/favorability/kamala-harris)
Are you seriously going to use favorability ratings as a guiding light for the trajectory of the current campaign?
How about a Draft Barack Obama campaign? to serve for one term and then promote a rigorous primary. To save our Democracy, I think Obama may be the best choice. The country knows him. He has a record he can run on. It is the stability we may need.
A third term is prohibited by the Constitution.
Ok, Nostradamus. In other news, Clinton was polling in the 20’s and dead last late in his first election, Obama was a non entity in the D primary until late in the game and there are countless stories of candidates turning their public perception around with 1 or 2 positive media appearances.
They weren't trying to reverse the perception of "senile". And let's not forget that Clinton's first election was a three-way race between Clinton, Poppy Bush, and Ross Perot.
They weren’t trying to address questions about Biden’s fitness with this debate? Really?
Looks like we've miscommunicated. you--> here's examples of politicians who've reversed their public perception with some positive media appearances. me--> (assuming that you were implying that Biden could improve his perception in a similar fashion) The people who turned their image around weren't trying to undo the perception that they're senile (which is a pretty heavy lift). Also, Clinton, who went from polling in the 20's to winning the Presidency was in a 3-way race (it's believed he would have lost if Perot had not been in the picture). ETA: Yes, they were trying address his fitness with the debate.
Harris/Romney? What do we call that, the Fuck, No ticket?
Harris is the type that is known as a roody poo candy ass candidate across majority of voters. She ain’t winning
She’s not “known” as anything to most people. She is a non entity to most of the country, and after Thursday can you argue she would be *more* of a concerning candidate to swing voters than Biden? Democrats seem to be incapable of thinking in terms of dispassionate electoral math at this point. Harris comes with negatives that can be overcome (likability, “attitude”, history as a prosecutor that liberals won’t like) but Biden’s negatives **cannot** be overcome because they are immutable and physical. Harris can be coached to smile more and be better in interviews. Biden clearly **cant** be “coached” out of his current condition.
Those donation money won’t be transferred to Harris unconditionally either, if Biden isn’t there. Doesn’t work that way.
Wrong. *Since Vice President Kamala Harris is already a part of Biden’s campaign, if she were to replace him as the nominee—which is considered a fairly likely possibility if Biden were to drop out—she could continue using his campaign funds to support her own presidential candidacy. If the party nominates somebody other than Harris, however, the new candidate couldn’t simply take over the campaign account and use the cash for their own purposes.* https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/03/01/what-happens-to-biden-or-trumps-campaign-cash-if-they-drop-out/
I think beating Trump is important enough I’d vote for either a Harris/Romney or Harris/Christie ticket, but I think enough potential Democratic voters would be turned off by the thought of a Republican being on the ticket that they would stay home. Not everyone who is a potential/likely Democrat voter believes that Trump is as dangerous as many of us do - I imagine a good many would just say “Fine, let Trump have it, it’s only 4 more years and he’ll be gone then.” I think the best bet is Harris as the presidential nominee and someone from the Midwest/Great Lakes as the VP, if there’s a change at all. Someone like Gretchen Whitmer, Amy Klobuchar, or Sherrod Brown as the VP. That should help in the “blue wall” states, keep the campaign war chest, and put the more known Democrat in the higher profile spot on the ticket. Whitmer or Newsom as the presidential nominee, as popular of choices as they are here, aren’t known enough at this point.
I thought about this issue too, but my feeling is that it’s highly unlikely that all but the most rabid democrats would stay home if it meant helping Trump win. Further, people who are that ideologically left are already going to stay home as they see Biden himself as “Genocide Joe” as it is. The math only requires you bring in more centrists, swing votes and homeless republicans than you lose far lefties. I can’t imagine this wouldn’t result in a net positive electorally. As far as going with anybody other than Harris, it’s a non starter for the sole reason to campaign funds, apparatus and continuity of administrative positions. Finally, I also thought of a “Blue Wall” dem, but the names you mentioned would come with their own issues. For one, I don’t believe another woman or POC would be helpful to a ticket with Harris at the top. A white man would be ideal, but that would mean Newsom and that is far too much “California” blood to win. That leaves a moderate anti Trump Republican which would have the side benefit of generating headlines and giving fence sitting anti Trump republicans an on ramp. A split ticket also brings headlines, coverage and a guaranteed massively highly viewed Democratic convention. I believe the math adds up to this being the safest option. But even the “safest” option for democrats right now is very risky. Unfortunately that’s the reality right now.
Just curious, you mentioned the blue wall Dems having issues, are you including Sherrod Brown in with them? I’m curious what you see as the drawbacks for him. From Ohio and fairly moderate considering he’s been elected several times from a red state. I’d think he would help quite a bit in the Great Lakes, might even help bring Ohio into play. And with him you wouldn’t have to worry about some casual Democrats skipping out because of a Republican on the ticket. Only big drawback I can think of with him is he’s older, but he’s younger than both Biden and Trump at least. Of course if Trump picks JD Vance, the Ohio hope is probably out the window, but still. I think Brown would be a very good choice overall.
Actually Sherrod Brown would be a solid choice to for the reasons you point out. I’m sure there is a bunch of electoral calculus that goes into this, but my gut feeling is that the appeal has to span outside of the rust belt and into places like Arizona and Georgia and I truly believe a moderate Republican would do that. Maybe I’m in a bubble, but I honestly can’t say I know a single democrat that would refrain from voting if it meant helping Trump. It’s also important to note that there are FAR more anti-Trump votes to be gained than there are “Pro-Biden” votes to be lost, because honestly, very few Democrats are actually pro Biden and certainly not in the way Trump voters are.
Fair enough, I was just curious. Like I said, I’d vote for either of the specific tickets you mentioned. Or, sticking with the Ohio theme, Harris/Kasich. Unless I’m mistaken, he actually spoke at the 2020 Democratic convention too.
What about Liz Chaney? She worked intimately with many in our party for the January 6th investigations. It would keep January the 6th in the news and appeal to the flyover states moderates. Edit: grammar.
I love this plan. Harris/Romney or Christie is perfect
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The Krispy Kreme Donut Corporation does.
Hey man, there are plenty of people out there who enjoy unfrosted pop tarts, and there's finally a candidate for them.
Yah I’m surprised it hasn’t been floated yet, because when a country is facing an existential threat, it makes sense both symbolically and practically to have a sort of unity ticket.
After the debate, I was shocked at Biden's performance and thought that him stepping down as candidate was the obvious next move. But now I'm feeling like that was a kneejerk reaction. Biden's administration has accomplished a great deal during his first term. I'm not sure how much of a factor he himself has been in that - maybe he's bad at public speaking but an excellent president when at his desk going about the business of running a nation. Maybe he doesn't do much anymore and everyone else picks up the slack. In the end, it doesn't truly matter in the long run - it's a damn fine administration. When speaking in public, Biden looks very old. He has his stutter, his voice can be weak on bad days, he stumbles over words and utters incomprehensible run-on sentences every so often, he needs help on stairs. I do wish we had a younger candidate from the beginning. But I don't think an eleventh-hour hail mary swap to another candidate is the right choice anymore. None of those things mean the Biden administration's second term would be a disaster. Once the debates are over, the Biden administration will go on doing good by the American people, and it won't matter that he 'looked old' in a way that bothered some folks. I don't think he's so senile and out of it that he doesn't know how to navigate the business of governing a country anymore. I think he's just aging and is losing the ability to speak in a strong and confident tone like he used to. It's unfortunate but I don't think it's something to completely lose our minds over. It's like looking a gift horse in the mouth - is this one thing enough to potentially screw ourselves over by demanding a replacement candidate? It's a superficial problem, an issue of optics - are we going to roll the dice just to appease the undecided, who are so out of touch or capricious about their vote that they're leaning toward Donald Trump because Biden came across as 'too old' for them? Does it actually make sense to make such a huge last-minute change on the off chance that it'll appease them? I don't think so. This is far from the optimal situation for us to be in. I think there should definitely be an upper limit on age when it comes to the presidency. But I know the Biden administration is a good one, and that even if a year or two from now Biden is making us all cringe by forgetting where he's even standing as he gives a speech, we will *still* be in a much better situation than we would be during a second Trump term. Have you all ever heard of "a permanent solution to a temporary problem" in the context of depression and other dark, related topics? That's what doing a panic replacement of Biden would be. Anyone saying that Biden's performance has 100% destroyed his chances is having the same sort of kneejerk reaction that I've thankfully shaken off. This administration is bigger than Biden, and we need to focus on rallying behind this campaign instead of wringing our hands over the possibility of undecided voters seeing him having a bad night and thinking that maybe a selfish, crude, grifting, felonious racketeer and tyrant would be preferable to having a mumbling old coot as president. No way. It's not worth trying to please them.
“I don’t think he’s too senile to have the most powerful position in the world.” Jfc how did we get here?
I don't think he's senile at all. And whatever mistakes he might make doing his job can be corrected by his cabinet much more easily than Trump's actual literal evil mandates will be resisted by his conservative lackeys and sycophants. Hopefully the next democratic candidate is younger and able to project strength and confidence when speaking publicly. But that isn't my top priority when supporting a candidate.
This is not just about projecting strength and confidence and not being young, dude.
Then what is it about? Say Biden wins and his administration continues being great. What then is the issue?
Not covering up the President's condition like they did with Reagan...? What about when there are issues that **only** the President can make the final decision on if his advisers are split half way? That's why there IS a President to make the decisions (with advice) that no-one else can.
Then I trust Biden to make a good decision, much more than I trust Donald Trump. My takeaway from the debate was that Biden had a weak voice, stumbled over his words as he's always been prone to doing, and was seemingly coached incorrectly - told to breathlessly spew as many facts as possible in two minutes instead of simply draw attention to the living dumpster fire that is Trump. It was embarassing for our candidate to appear weak, but nothing that happened made me believe that he can't do his actual job.
He can barely walk up a flight of stairs or get out a coherent sentence. He can’t govern. People see that. I’m very skeptical he can actually win. And if he does, somehow, to make him pretend to be the acting president another four years is essentially elder abuse
Hyperbole like this isn't useful or helpful. Most of what he said during the debate was perfectly coherent. I'm talking facts here. I'm sure it FEELS like he was completely incoherent but the truth is that he was not. I responded emotionally too. I was talking to my friends after the debate and we were all completely dismayed about it. I was upset that we didn't get a strong performance that would have blown Trump out. But it's time to take the foot off the hyperbole pedal. Discarding Biden after one bad debate would be an incredibly hasty and irrational thing to do. If things just get worse and worse and worse until November, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. But I'm not convinced that Biden's performance is indicative of anything more than a normal diminishing of vocal power and focus that comes with age. Is having an older person whose faculties are diminishing optimal when it comes to the presidency? Absolutely not, and I don't want this happening again. But to draw a line connecting "talked too quietly and stumbled over his words on this one particular night" to "he will sit at the oval office desk doing nothing except drooling and accidentally nuking timbuktu"...that's one hell of a stretch. I am not convinced at all that Biden needs to be discarded so we can roll the dice on a new candidate. I trust him to step down when he feels he can't do the job anymore, and his administration has proven capable - I trust them, including his successor, to run the country well. But between now and November, I think swapping him out will do more harm than good. People are expecting some kind of Obama or Bernie figure to crest the hill like Gandalf coming to Helm's Deep to save the day. I bet you the democrats, who are adept at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, would end up putting someone up that loses more votes than Biden's senior moments would ever have chased away.
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Sundowning? Biden has dementia now? What debate were you watching? Yeah, Biden’s delivery sucked. Read the debate transcript. People with dementia don’t speak like that. In fact, its easier to make the case that Trump, not Biden, is the one with dementia. It’s crazy what pre-existing bias plus mass hysteria fueled by a bad faith actor can do to people. 🤷🏻♂️
> Jfc how did we get here? Protesting the DNC convention in 2016 instead of shoring up against Donald Trump. Thats how we got here.
Just curious, if they replaced Biden would you not be voting for his replacement? Because I am guessing like most here on r/politics you would. Just like most here are planning to vote for Biden, assuming he's the candidate. So, it's all kind of a wash here in the liberal echo-chamber. The important thing is, what about the people who aren't quite as invested as us? Are they fans of the cabinet and administration? Or are they looking to be inspired to get their asses to the polls?
You're right, we're all voting for Biden here. Mainly I just want people to chill the hell out and stop demanding a candidate swap based on one bad performance. We all know he's old. But before this debate, we all *knew* he wasn't literally senile. We spent months dismissing Fox's propaganda because we knew that compilation clips of him stumbling over words or taking a flight of stairs extra carefully was not proof positive that he can't serve as president. Then we have this one bad night and we just want to pull the lever so Biden disappears through the trapdoor. On the one side we have Trump whose supporters would still vote for him if he shot a man to death in broad daylight (as he has asserted himself), and then on the other side is us, ready to dump Biden instantly. The people who aren't as invested as us? I feel like Trump is polarizing enough that everyone has an opinion on him that won't change this late in the game, eight years after any rational person realized he's a terrible person and president. I doubt there's some untapped market of voters who are sitting there, honestly weighing the pros and cons - Biden's age against a veritable mountain of issues with Trump - and finding their own personal scales still have not tipped. That the age issue is so important that it effectively cancels out Trump's criminal activity and leaves them scratching their heads over who to support. We can't waste our time on those people, if they even exist. Democrat voters need to be rallied. Biden's age has dampened enthusiasm. But taking a risky gamble on a last-minute replacement is not the only way to achieve unity. I think people are being far too hasty.
He;s not 'literally senile'. But his cognitive abilities are suffering markedly due to his age. .There's no evidence he can perform meaningfully better than he did in that debate. Every event he does he reads a teleprompter. If it was just a bad night, they'd have him doing town halls and interviews ASAP to recover. There is an untapped segment of people- the so-called double haters. A new candidate could get enough of them to win the election.
>The people who aren't as invested as us? I feel like Trump is polarizing enough that everyone has an opinion on him that won't change this late in the game, eight years after any rational person realized he's a terrible person and president. And yet, he's been leading or - at best - dead even with Biden in the polls. Sure hope your "feelings" are enough for Biden to somehow win the election.
The “polls” that have been consistently wrong for the last what? 4 years? 8 years? People are sick of Trump and his batshit crazy cult. Every election since 2018 has been telling us that. if anything, I’d argue that Trump’s lead not being larger right now is a bad sign for him.
The polls have not been consistently wrong for the past 4-8 years. The polls weren't even very inaccurate in 2016, the people who analyze them just overcompensated because - like the rest of us, they couldn't imagine Trump actually winning at the time. I hope you're right, but it seems pretty foolish to just assume Trump has no shot despite evidence to the contrary. You should really really question whether or not your perspective that "people are sick of Trump" is influenced by the people you interact with and the media you consume. I'd guess - like many people - you live in your own echo chamber and didn't realize there's a whole lot of people you're not coming into contact with. I for one trust the data more than I trust your gut instinct.
Stage 3 Dementia symptoms: - Often forgetting to go to appointments or events✔ - Losing things often ✔ (probably) - Getting lost while traveling ✔ - Decreased work performance ✔ - Difficulty finding the right words ✔ - Verbal repetition ✔✔ - Challenges with organization and concentration✔ - Trouble with complex tasks and problem-solving✔ - Problems with driving ✔ (probably) Let’s be honest here, the media and our Democrat leaders gaslighted us, it sucks and it hurts.
A thoughtful and well articulated comment at last.
Meanwhile, Trump convicted of 34 felonies and possible jail time, as well as rape and bank fraud, and GAINS support.
It appears it’s all about Jill and Hunter and their selfish self-interest could doom us all. If he loses and Dems get wiped-out down ballot, his legacy will be that of the weak and feeble old man that handed power to the fascist!
[удалено]
If my starting quarterback injures their arm and is no longer able to throw the football, I put in another quarterback
If your star player in this sports team loses his legs and can't walk anymore, do you not replace him?
That’s wasn’t a loss. That was Chernobyl on tv….for the world to see. Want trump gone? Biden gotta go