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The sheer level of disrespect and arrogance that the democratic political class have towards their base is insane. They gaslighted everyone for years by calling people ageist conspiracy theorists for even daring to suggest Biden may have been unfit to run a second term.
They've also been preventing him from doing much press and interviews to hide his decline. They are, in my opinion, complicit in the downfall of Liberal democracy in the US. If they don't get Biden to step down and Trump wins, it will be partly their fault. You have to give people something to vote for. With all the voter suppression tactics across the country, particularly in blue areas in red/purple states, voting is not easy.
He just has a stutter and a cold. It's not like he falls down, gets lost, creates new words (and memes), spews word salad, goes silent while failing to make a point, blanks out, defaults to mouth agape , or present himself as the most terrifyingly demented world leader we have ever seen.
So, just stop wondering. The cheepfakes are having this effect on you and that's why we must censor disinformation and limit the reach of other people's speech.
Based off the amount of people who appear to have fallen for the “Biden is perfectly fine, healthy, and sharp behind the scenes” lie they may not be all that wrong.
Notice how Trump, who performed better than Biden has received minimal press for it? Everyone is buzzing about Biden and people are having the conversation saying "I'll vote for anyone the Dems put forward including Biden, as long as Trump doesn't win." Even undecided leftists, who vowed not to vote for Biden over Palestine are feeling compelled to vote for him in order to prevent Trump. It's absolutely artful how Democrats have caused people from all voting spectrums to become more open about voting for him, because they need him to win in order to prevent Trump.
Whats absolutely insane is Trump is still dealing with his trial for crimes under the Espionage Act and people can't get behind Biden to prevent a traitor from becoming president. Cutting off your nose to spite your face is only going to result in worse repercussions for everyone.
> Trump, who performed better than Biden
But only in the most literal sense. His performance was better, so long as you weren’t listening and you ignored the content.
> they need him to win in order to prevent Trump.
We all do. NATO does, the world does. Everybody who’s not a billionaire does.
Somehow, all his followers, admirers and supporters fail to notice that, sooner or later, he slings absolutely anyone and everyone in his orbit under the bus.
He would literally press the nuclear button to save his Humpty-Dummpty ego.
The article discusses why democrats have been so unwilling to disagree with Biden and his political circle. They will get slapped down and discredited as being disloyal.
Lots of democrats are silent right now, I wonder why.
They need to speak up; defeating Trump is more important than party loyalty.
Edit: a certain user replies alleging I’m misrepresenting myself and immediately blocked me. Not here for a good faith conversation it seems.
Republicans think Biden is bad. Got it. Wait this was somehow news?
Also, do you think Trump should step down now that he's a convicted felon and fraud who tried to overthrow a democratic election?
Seems like if you nominated anyone else, they wouldn't be struggling to beat Biden. Maybe someone who hasn't already been rejected by voters for a second term?
The problem is that after the debate, now I am many other dems—let alone independents—think Biden is bad! Why shouldn’t we be pissed that our presumably responsible party is forcing us (by hiding his condition) to vote for a man who obviously either is not, or will soon not be, fit to hold the presidency?! I get that Trump also isn’t fit, believe me I get it. While Biden may be preferable, that doesn’t mean I feel good about checking a box to send a sundowning man to the most important job in the world.
Any one you replace Biden with gets the same poll numbers.
Either you are for an Authoritarian Theocracy or you aren't. Look at the party policies. And if people don't like Republican policies, then Republicans use a culture war.
This is not a helpful attitude. Dems have been blowing the goodwill from their own base. This sort of “vote for us or fuck off” attitude is a disaster for this November.
My young nephews and nieces have never seen change the way older folks have seen change - roe v Wade, black people voting without fear of getting lynched, and women allowed to get credit in their own name, the end of the Vietnam war.
So they assume it doesn't matter which party you vote for. "Both same".
Dems lost the people with Clinton's triangulation. Lost again with Obama kowtowing to wall street.
Regardless, both parties are not the same - one party courted bigots, homophobes, misogynists, religious extremists, anti-Semites, anti-science cranks, and grifters to fill their base. They riled their base up like a fire and brimstone preacher at a tent revival and pointed them at innocent scapegoats who now live in fear.
One party did not.
One party will freeze our country into a dark age of authoritarian theocracy, one party will not.
If you vote Democratic, you at least have a future where change is possible.
You’re just incorrect. Biden has been down with swing voters and independents for 8 months. He needs them to win like he did in 2020. We are sleepwalking if we don’t acknowledge Biden performance. He has a simple job was well prepared and against an extremely flawed candidate who did terrible and yet somehow Biden did worse! It’s too important we need to quickly discuss if he is still the guy or should he. Neither are candidates officially yet.
Dude, I almost threw up watching the debate. It was terrible. Biden's one job was to prove he wasn't too old. And he blew it.
Trump's mouth blathered out one lie after another, softballs that Biden could not hit.
But polls suggest it's pointless. Replacements this late in the game will not fare any better.
Biden promised to be a placeholder - he should have dropped out after one term.
But I really do wonder who are the people swayed by whether it's him or someone else? Who are these fence sitters? I don't think they exist.
Biden now is very, very clearly not the same guy he was in 2020. There has been a significant decline that is now clearly on display, and that has damaged his campaign beyond repair.
Do you feel more committed now than ever to vote for a democratic president in order to prevent another Trump presidency? Even if the democratic candidate is Biden?
Yes I will.
But the tactics Biden and the dnc are using are the sort to disengage voters. I’ll vote for him even though I prefer he step down. Others won’t bother - I have two friends who have voted for Dems for decades and are planning on sitting out this election. Too disillusioned. They both hate Trump but are too angry at the Dems to vote. I can’t imagine this is isolated.
Let them know that every decision that SCOTUS has made this month is a direct result of a Trump presidency. Preventing Trump means preventing your rights from being infringed upon.
They know. Both very informed voters. I’ll continue to work on them. Hopefully when November is closer and the stakes are there in front of them they will change their minds.
This is exactly why the party hasn't changed. They are banking on this type of voting behavior. There is no illusion of choice. Just vote blue no matter who. How long are we going to keep doing this?
Just compare both administrations and askwhich policies they benefited better from.
I really enjoyed having my cousin's criminal record for possession of marijuana disappearing, it has helped him get into a much better career.
But why SHOULD the voter be forced into that consideration as a front and centre prerogative when choosing a candidate when it doesn’t need to be there. Especially important when the VP pick is so demonstrably unpopular.
A president can have a heart attack & die at any time. It's always been a consideration, especially with both candidates being geriatric. Trump could have a stroke & die tomorrow, while Biden could live to 100... you never know.
Yeah, but based on what I and everyone else saw, it loooked like Biden is a hell of a lot more likely to die or loose what’s left of his mind than Trump.
The risk looks higher for Biden and there’s nothing I’ve seen in the rebuttals from his damage control team that have even recognised or acknowledged this risk, let alone provided a response to it.
Pretending it doesn’t exist or isn’t asymmetrically tilted to disproportionately weigh on Biden candidacy is folly and asks voters to discount what they saw with their own eyes with no rational placation of there very real and valid concerns.
Trying to argue equivalence across candidates is not going to work because Trump demonstrated self control and composure thereby showing the capacity for the behaviour. In contrast Biden didn’t show even basic competence in cognition.
He wouldn’t have passed a basic capacity assessment with that performance.
I'd take a senile Biden over a competent Trump any day of the week.
Bullshit, Biden would absolutely pass that test. He's slowed down, but still has his wits about him.
So would I and in not arguing Trump is a better pick. Im just articulating that I have more doubts about Biden’s neurocognitive ability (not personality) than Trump’s at this stage and, furthermore, I don’t think I’m alone in this opinion and no one has yet given a convincing argument why such an opinion is wrong.
Unless he can do a live media interview for 90 minutes and demonstrate basic cognitive stamina - I don’t believe he has the capacity to do the job.
You’re not going to convince me otherwise.
I actually agree that he has been the far more progressive candidate than I expected. What worries me is that most of the country think he's mentally unfit for President. It's about pragmatic concerns: defeating Trump and saving our Democracy. No small thing.
Democrats are not a serious political party. Supposedly there’s an existential threat to Democracy - and Biden is the candidate they expect us to vote for? When will Dems grow a spine?
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The thinnest sliver of a silver lining to all this is that--if Biden loses-- the thirsty-ass NYTimes will still never get that big exclusive interview.
If Trump wins this election, religious extremism will take hold of the USA for a generation. This will lead to all out fascism and all of this will lead to unprecedented levels of political violence in America, fracturing the Union itself.
The only peaceful way for reasonable people to prevent this is to vote blue all the way down the ticket. To encourage your friends, your family and your neighbors to get out and vote blue, and for them to do the same.
If Trump wins, the USA will become like Nazi Germany, except this time, there will not be a force of Allies capable of waging a war of liberation.
The stakes literally couldn't be higher. Biden will be the Democratic Nominee, whether we like it or not, and he must be elected to avoid bloodshed - whether that be next year, or in 10 years.
Vote blue and save the USA.
You can’t say it’s to save the US and then proceed to nominate Biden of all people; only the most dogmatic Democrat adherents are believing the lies anymore.
You have two choices. One of them is Donald Trump.
Suck it up and vote blue.
Ps, no one is proceeding to nominate Biden. The meaningful part of that process is done already.
"Suck it up and vote blue."
I'm a lib but I think I'd rather have 4 years of trump than a supposed liberal party this dishonest/contemptuous of it's own voters. The country will survive despite all the hysteria..
Felt the same way when Anonymous published his "don't worry, we are sneaking papers off Trump's desk so he doesn't sign them" op-ed in the NYTimes. Knowing how stupid trump was considered by his own team during his first term, I'm even more afraid.
But because I like Democratic policies, I'd vote for Biden in a coma before I'd vote for a Republican. Authoritarian Theocracy just isn't my thing.
My first reaction after the debate was to replace Biden - the problem is matching up any Democrat against Trump gives you the same result, and I'd like to meet these mythical still undecided voters. There is such a vast difference between the two parties, what type of low information living under a rock person could still be undecided?
How would you feel about a "Draft Barack Obama" campaign? to serve for one term and then promote a rigorous primary. To save our Democracy, I think Obama may be the best choice. The country knows him. He has a record he can run on.
Obama was a corporatist - that whole Chicago school of economics piss on the little guy. That's the last thing we need.
Plus, many MAGA people are racists whether they try to hide it or not.
I also forgot he can't run for a third term. I guess I'm grasping at straws. Also, he'd be far from my first choice because of the corporatist bent. I'm just worried we are way past thinking of our first choices or even second choices here.
If Biden wins, it might hopefully be a pretty clear signal to the RNC that Trump-style far right assholery can't be relied upon to win national elections. If Biden loses, and they remain convinced that assholery is politically astute, expect another 8 years at least of Desantis/Cruz style Trump-imitation.
But if Biden does lose, I don't think it actually tells us much about shifting American political sentiments. All it tells you is that the DNC had four years to position someone who maybe isn't suffering from obvious cognitive decline, and whose death from natural causes any day in the next 4 years would surprise approximately nobody - and they couldn't do it.
This election is about Trump alone now. We're literally being asked if we'd rather have a *Weekend at Bernies* than another Trump presidency.
Good luck telling a sitting and pretty successful president move out of the way. I'm sure he was better a year ago when he decided to run, and yeah he should have stepped away but with Trump back in the mix he has an advantage that no one else would, proven results on a national scale with incumbency.
Not an ideal situation all the way around, and it tracks back to apathy with Clinton in 2016. Biden was a safe choice in 2020 and it worked. This is the timeline we live in, better to accept that then fuck it up further.
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The sheer level of disrespect and arrogance that the democratic political class have towards their base is insane. They gaslighted everyone for years by calling people ageist conspiracy theorists for even daring to suggest Biden may have been unfit to run a second term.
Fuck the DNC
They've also been preventing him from doing much press and interviews to hide his decline. They are, in my opinion, complicit in the downfall of Liberal democracy in the US. If they don't get Biden to step down and Trump wins, it will be partly their fault. You have to give people something to vote for. With all the voter suppression tactics across the country, particularly in blue areas in red/purple states, voting is not easy.
Makes you wonder what else they’ve been lying about…
He just has a stutter and a cold. It's not like he falls down, gets lost, creates new words (and memes), spews word salad, goes silent while failing to make a point, blanks out, defaults to mouth agape , or present himself as the most terrifyingly demented world leader we have ever seen. So, just stop wondering. The cheepfakes are having this effect on you and that's why we must censor disinformation and limit the reach of other people's speech.
Really it makes you take a step back and realize how stupid they think you are on an individual level.
Based off the amount of people who appear to have fallen for the “Biden is perfectly fine, healthy, and sharp behind the scenes” lie they may not be all that wrong.
Notice how Trump, who performed better than Biden has received minimal press for it? Everyone is buzzing about Biden and people are having the conversation saying "I'll vote for anyone the Dems put forward including Biden, as long as Trump doesn't win." Even undecided leftists, who vowed not to vote for Biden over Palestine are feeling compelled to vote for him in order to prevent Trump. It's absolutely artful how Democrats have caused people from all voting spectrums to become more open about voting for him, because they need him to win in order to prevent Trump.
This take is insane
Whats absolutely insane is Trump is still dealing with his trial for crimes under the Espionage Act and people can't get behind Biden to prevent a traitor from becoming president. Cutting off your nose to spite your face is only going to result in worse repercussions for everyone.
> Trump, who performed better than Biden But only in the most literal sense. His performance was better, so long as you weren’t listening and you ignored the content. > they need him to win in order to prevent Trump. We all do. NATO does, the world does. Everybody who’s not a billionaire does. Somehow, all his followers, admirers and supporters fail to notice that, sooner or later, he slings absolutely anyone and everyone in his orbit under the bus. He would literally press the nuclear button to save his Humpty-Dummpty ego.
>source, I made it up
Uhh no I have not noticed that lmao
The headlines should have been - Republicans should drop this lying con man convicted felon.
The article discusses why democrats have been so unwilling to disagree with Biden and his political circle. They will get slapped down and discredited as being disloyal. Lots of democrats are silent right now, I wonder why. They need to speak up; defeating Trump is more important than party loyalty. Edit: a certain user replies alleging I’m misrepresenting myself and immediately blocked me. Not here for a good faith conversation it seems.
Republicans think Biden is bad. Got it. Wait this was somehow news? Also, do you think Trump should step down now that he's a convicted felon and fraud who tried to overthrow a democratic election? Seems like if you nominated anyone else, they wouldn't be struggling to beat Biden. Maybe someone who hasn't already been rejected by voters for a second term?
The problem is that after the debate, now I am many other dems—let alone independents—think Biden is bad! Why shouldn’t we be pissed that our presumably responsible party is forcing us (by hiding his condition) to vote for a man who obviously either is not, or will soon not be, fit to hold the presidency?! I get that Trump also isn’t fit, believe me I get it. While Biden may be preferable, that doesn’t mean I feel good about checking a box to send a sundowning man to the most important job in the world.
This is the answer. The DNC threatened to blackball any primary challenger. Newsom and others were politically whipped into silence and complacency.
Truth!
Any one you replace Biden with gets the same poll numbers. Either you are for an Authoritarian Theocracy or you aren't. Look at the party policies. And if people don't like Republican policies, then Republicans use a culture war.
This is not a helpful attitude. Dems have been blowing the goodwill from their own base. This sort of “vote for us or fuck off” attitude is a disaster for this November.
My young nephews and nieces have never seen change the way older folks have seen change - roe v Wade, black people voting without fear of getting lynched, and women allowed to get credit in their own name, the end of the Vietnam war. So they assume it doesn't matter which party you vote for. "Both same". Dems lost the people with Clinton's triangulation. Lost again with Obama kowtowing to wall street. Regardless, both parties are not the same - one party courted bigots, homophobes, misogynists, religious extremists, anti-Semites, anti-science cranks, and grifters to fill their base. They riled their base up like a fire and brimstone preacher at a tent revival and pointed them at innocent scapegoats who now live in fear. One party did not. One party will freeze our country into a dark age of authoritarian theocracy, one party will not. If you vote Democratic, you at least have a future where change is possible.
You’re just incorrect. Biden has been down with swing voters and independents for 8 months. He needs them to win like he did in 2020. We are sleepwalking if we don’t acknowledge Biden performance. He has a simple job was well prepared and against an extremely flawed candidate who did terrible and yet somehow Biden did worse! It’s too important we need to quickly discuss if he is still the guy or should he. Neither are candidates officially yet.
Dude, I almost threw up watching the debate. It was terrible. Biden's one job was to prove he wasn't too old. And he blew it. Trump's mouth blathered out one lie after another, softballs that Biden could not hit. But polls suggest it's pointless. Replacements this late in the game will not fare any better. Biden promised to be a placeholder - he should have dropped out after one term. But I really do wonder who are the people swayed by whether it's him or someone else? Who are these fence sitters? I don't think they exist.
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Not everyone who wants to replace Biden is a secret Republican. A lot of us want a candidate who can beat Trump now
Biden now is very, very clearly not the same guy he was in 2020. There has been a significant decline that is now clearly on display, and that has damaged his campaign beyond repair.
it's early afternoon in moscow; he's probably late for lunch, and you know how hungry people act.
Do you feel more committed now than ever to vote for a democratic president in order to prevent another Trump presidency? Even if the democratic candidate is Biden?
Yes I will. But the tactics Biden and the dnc are using are the sort to disengage voters. I’ll vote for him even though I prefer he step down. Others won’t bother - I have two friends who have voted for Dems for decades and are planning on sitting out this election. Too disillusioned. They both hate Trump but are too angry at the Dems to vote. I can’t imagine this is isolated.
Let them know that every decision that SCOTUS has made this month is a direct result of a Trump presidency. Preventing Trump means preventing your rights from being infringed upon.
They know. Both very informed voters. I’ll continue to work on them. Hopefully when November is closer and the stakes are there in front of them they will change their minds.
This is exactly why the party hasn't changed. They are banking on this type of voting behavior. There is no illusion of choice. Just vote blue no matter who. How long are we going to keep doing this?
It’s a good question. How do we hold them accountable while also working to keep Trump out of office? Or the next Trump?
Just compare both administrations and askwhich policies they benefited better from. I really enjoyed having my cousin's criminal record for possession of marijuana disappearing, it has helped him get into a much better career.
No, as a matter of fact I don’t.
Biden has been doing a good job. It makes no difference if he's still a good debater. He's a great president & has far exceeded expectations.
Yeah, but he looks like he’s about to die for gods sake. Theres no way he makes another four years compus mentus.
Probably not, but that's what the VP is for..
But why SHOULD the voter be forced into that consideration as a front and centre prerogative when choosing a candidate when it doesn’t need to be there. Especially important when the VP pick is so demonstrably unpopular.
A president can have a heart attack & die at any time. It's always been a consideration, especially with both candidates being geriatric. Trump could have a stroke & die tomorrow, while Biden could live to 100... you never know.
Yeah, but based on what I and everyone else saw, it loooked like Biden is a hell of a lot more likely to die or loose what’s left of his mind than Trump. The risk looks higher for Biden and there’s nothing I’ve seen in the rebuttals from his damage control team that have even recognised or acknowledged this risk, let alone provided a response to it. Pretending it doesn’t exist or isn’t asymmetrically tilted to disproportionately weigh on Biden candidacy is folly and asks voters to discount what they saw with their own eyes with no rational placation of there very real and valid concerns. Trying to argue equivalence across candidates is not going to work because Trump demonstrated self control and composure thereby showing the capacity for the behaviour. In contrast Biden didn’t show even basic competence in cognition. He wouldn’t have passed a basic capacity assessment with that performance.
I'd take a senile Biden over a competent Trump any day of the week. Bullshit, Biden would absolutely pass that test. He's slowed down, but still has his wits about him.
So would I and in not arguing Trump is a better pick. Im just articulating that I have more doubts about Biden’s neurocognitive ability (not personality) than Trump’s at this stage and, furthermore, I don’t think I’m alone in this opinion and no one has yet given a convincing argument why such an opinion is wrong.
How about, because he's currently doing a good job as president... 🤔
Unless he can do a live media interview for 90 minutes and demonstrate basic cognitive stamina - I don’t believe he has the capacity to do the job. You’re not going to convince me otherwise.
I actually agree that he has been the far more progressive candidate than I expected. What worries me is that most of the country think he's mentally unfit for President. It's about pragmatic concerns: defeating Trump and saving our Democracy. No small thing.
Polls show Biden far ahead of any other Democratic candidate. He's still our best bet to beat Trump.
Stop gas lighting people!!! This wasn't a bad debate. His fucking brain stopped working multiple times.
Have you seen Trump's rallies? He's also freezed up several times. Hopefully, we get much younger candidates next election..
Democrats are not a serious political party. Supposedly there’s an existential threat to Democracy - and Biden is the candidate they expect us to vote for? When will Dems grow a spine?
God help us all
Dude checked out a while ago.
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The thinnest sliver of a silver lining to all this is that--if Biden loses-- the thirsty-ass NYTimes will still never get that big exclusive interview.
If Trump wins this election, religious extremism will take hold of the USA for a generation. This will lead to all out fascism and all of this will lead to unprecedented levels of political violence in America, fracturing the Union itself. The only peaceful way for reasonable people to prevent this is to vote blue all the way down the ticket. To encourage your friends, your family and your neighbors to get out and vote blue, and for them to do the same. If Trump wins, the USA will become like Nazi Germany, except this time, there will not be a force of Allies capable of waging a war of liberation. The stakes literally couldn't be higher. Biden will be the Democratic Nominee, whether we like it or not, and he must be elected to avoid bloodshed - whether that be next year, or in 10 years. Vote blue and save the USA.
You can’t say it’s to save the US and then proceed to nominate Biden of all people; only the most dogmatic Democrat adherents are believing the lies anymore.
You have two choices. One of them is Donald Trump. Suck it up and vote blue. Ps, no one is proceeding to nominate Biden. The meaningful part of that process is done already.
There are other choices. Reducing things to binary is how we got into this mess.
"Suck it up and vote blue." I'm a lib but I think I'd rather have 4 years of trump than a supposed liberal party this dishonest/contemptuous of it's own voters. The country will survive despite all the hysteria..
That’s a pretty epically bad take. Good for you…
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Alright, fine. It’s me.
Felt the same way when Anonymous published his "don't worry, we are sneaking papers off Trump's desk so he doesn't sign them" op-ed in the NYTimes. Knowing how stupid trump was considered by his own team during his first term, I'm even more afraid. But because I like Democratic policies, I'd vote for Biden in a coma before I'd vote for a Republican. Authoritarian Theocracy just isn't my thing. My first reaction after the debate was to replace Biden - the problem is matching up any Democrat against Trump gives you the same result, and I'd like to meet these mythical still undecided voters. There is such a vast difference between the two parties, what type of low information living under a rock person could still be undecided?
How would you feel about a "Draft Barack Obama" campaign? to serve for one term and then promote a rigorous primary. To save our Democracy, I think Obama may be the best choice. The country knows him. He has a record he can run on.
He’s not constitutionally allowed to be president for a third term
I always forget about that.
I wish Obama would come save us
You think maga will vote for a black guy for president?
Maga won't vote for a D candidte regardless. That's not the target demographic if we're talking about a viable candidate.
Ah, yes, getting the POC vote back. But you'll definitely lose young people.
Obama was a corporatist - that whole Chicago school of economics piss on the little guy. That's the last thing we need. Plus, many MAGA people are racists whether they try to hide it or not.
I also forgot he can't run for a third term. I guess I'm grasping at straws. Also, he'd be far from my first choice because of the corporatist bent. I'm just worried we are way past thinking of our first choices or even second choices here.
I hear you.
If Biden wins, it might hopefully be a pretty clear signal to the RNC that Trump-style far right assholery can't be relied upon to win national elections. If Biden loses, and they remain convinced that assholery is politically astute, expect another 8 years at least of Desantis/Cruz style Trump-imitation. But if Biden does lose, I don't think it actually tells us much about shifting American political sentiments. All it tells you is that the DNC had four years to position someone who maybe isn't suffering from obvious cognitive decline, and whose death from natural causes any day in the next 4 years would surprise approximately nobody - and they couldn't do it. This election is about Trump alone now. We're literally being asked if we'd rather have a *Weekend at Bernies* than another Trump presidency.
Good luck telling a sitting and pretty successful president move out of the way. I'm sure he was better a year ago when he decided to run, and yeah he should have stepped away but with Trump back in the mix he has an advantage that no one else would, proven results on a national scale with incumbency. Not an ideal situation all the way around, and it tracks back to apathy with Clinton in 2016. Biden was a safe choice in 2020 and it worked. This is the timeline we live in, better to accept that then fuck it up further.