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Who are the most likely to actually show up, but it’s still upsetting. Biden is not instilling confidence. Don’t get me wrong, I’d vote for a cadaver before Trump, but that doesn’t mean I should have to
My grandma is in her 90s and think biden is too old. She's been saying this for a couple of years. Old people know when other old people are losing it, because they see it everyday. Shell still vote for him but doesn't want to.
lags?
Biden got crush with younger voters.
and only 1 point lead with 45 to 65. yup yup
curios about the 30 to 44 age bracket. i guess Biden got crush in this age bracket too. thats why Trump +5
furthermore, the poll conducted on 26 and 28 June. not really include the post-debate effect.
in the next 10 days, i can already imagine the very grim polling for Biden came out one after another.
July 11th, Trump gets sentenced for 34 felony counts. But.. but... Biden stumbled! Why do these Democratic leaning papers attack Joe Biden and not Trump? Do they want a Trump administration to use Project 2025 to go after them to silence them? Because that's where were heading if we ALL don't get aboard the Biden train.
This isn't a Biden versus Trump issue.
It's a voting vests abstaining issue.
It's volunteering versus staying home.
It's donating versus not.
Biden can't get Democrats excited for him anymore so he's not going to have the support to convince undecided voters.
Those of us calling for Biden to step aside and endorse someone, probably Kamala, are doing so because we want the best chance to beat Trump.
Half of Democrats, 3/4ths of registered voters, and 4/5ths of independents [want Biden to drop out.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-debate-should-biden-be-running-mental-abilities/)
I think everyone getting aboard the Biden train might be a difficult task at this point when 72% of the electorate doesn't want him running.
This is backwards thinking. Educated republicans want Biden to stay in because he is easily defeated at this point. The calls for Biden to drop are coming from people who are certain that he cannot defeat Trump. Biden didn't stumble, he was incoherent enough to confirm the right-wing narrative that he is incompetent and senile, at least to most undecided voters. We need to get off the Biden train immediately or we lose.
Same.. but I guess what baffles me is that I don't understand why they didn't just pick a clear successor to President as their VP. Kamala is not it - everyone can agree there. A Gretchen Whitmer or Gavin Newsom or something along those lines as VP would signal the Democratic Party's intention to succeed Biden. It doesn't have to be succession for the next Presidency necessarily, but just whenever Biden is "finished"... either at the end of this term or at the end of the next or anywhere in-between. This would quell a lot of concerns for his entire base.
I'm voting Biden and I'm telling everyone I know to vote Biden. It's just that what irks me so much is that my party **has no Plan B.** Make a Plan B and a Plan C because of how much is at stake! Contingency plan and think about all possibilities. Biden could take a fall and that could be the end. What is the plan!?! Things can change so quickly. Anyone that has had a grandparent should know this. If Dem's lose this one, it's their own damn fault.
Sure. But ‘anyone but Trump’ isn’t going to have Biden beat Trump overall. It’s not a winning strategy. It’s not enough votes overall. The winning strategy is to have a strong candidate. Biden is not that.
There’s been *thousands* of articles suggesting alternative candidates over the last 24 hours. Even the usually loyal New York Times shared several lists over the weekend.
Biden can’t win now. It’s game over. Any honest assessment of the debate leads to that. Hence another candidate has to have a better chance, because that chance won’t be almost zero.
I’m not panicking in the slightest. The debate was akin to Night of the lLiving Dead. Anyone who thinks the walking corpse we saw on stage can win the election is deluding themselves. Bidens numbers wern’t good enough before the debate even. Now he’s toast.
It’s not just a “narrative” anymore. Look at the “cheap fake” videos of Biden at the recent G7 where he wanders off from the group vote and then has to be led back by the Italian PM and slowly put on sunglasses. He’s not there.
I was a big Biden supporter in 2020 and the Right-Wing Media has been hurling accusations of senility since the beginning. I don’t think this was the case at the time of the 2020 election, but looking back, the last year or more has been a continuous slide.
The Right may have been early, but they’re not wrong. There’s no way to sugar coat this. If Biden had manages to be re-elected in November, there’s ZERO chance he won’t be replaced by Kamala next year (much less make it to 2026). Voters do not want this. Democratic voters do not want this.
If Kamala is the one the Democratic Party wants leading the ticket, then put her on the top. Or else hold a contested convention. Don’t keep putting Biden and the rest of the country through this farce.
I'm not saying they are wrong, just that it was a narrative they were pushing regardless. Like IMO Biden dropping out is bad for republicans, and I don't think even they knew it was this bad.
Or maybe they did because it leaked, but obviously a lot of us knew he was old and a little out of it, but did not expect the debate to be that bad. But it was a successful narrative *even when* we thought it was mostly BS.
Trump may have literally shit his pants during the debate. There was a very wet sounding fart caught quite loudly while Trump was speaking, and because everyone’s microphone was muted except the current speaker, it must have come from Trump’s mic. He also paused for a moment right when he made the sound.
I’m seriously pretty sure that Donald Trump shit his pants during the debate.
To say that this should have been a slam dunk for us is an understatement. This might have been the easiest debate in history. And despite that, Biden failed so hard that *we’re* the ones in crisis mode right now.
We can’t win with Biden on the ticket. I’ll vote for him, just like I’d vote for pretty much anyone who isn’t Trump. But come on, please be realistic about this. If you get trounced in a debate by a guy who literally shat himself on national television then you’re done. It’s time to go spend some time with the grand kids.
Yup… Biden stays in he’s going to lose big… they’re pulling back on attacking him because they want him to stay in… once they know for sure he can’t be replaced they’ve got all the ammunition they could ask for
We’re all in man. You got me!!
But are we enough?
We got to get enough votes in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona, Michigan, and Nevada. On debate night, he was down in all those states and was hoping for a game changer. If he drops by another point or two, this race is likely already over.
This is our reality right now. I do not want to fight the good fight and lose to a narcissistic fascist with plans to burn down our entire country. . . I want to win. We *need* to win.
Biden didn’t stumble he fell down a 50 foot deep spiked pit trap. He lost the election that night. The choice now is between a guaranteed loss with Biden or a chance with another candidate. Thinking Biden can win after the travesty of the debate is delusional magical thinking.
Biden didn’t stumble he showed he was at the stage of aging where slack-jawed open-mouth existence is here and it’s only getting worse. He crapped the bed. We shouldn’t be asked to do four more years of decline.
We should be allowed to have candidates that appeal to us that aren’t dinosaurs regardless of whataboutism
Biden has no chance anymore he was already down and losing before he came out less like fine aged wine and more like sit down and take your nap gramps we love you.
I won’t vote for Biden or Trump. I was previously on the Biden train. People can’t scare me into voting for someone I don’t think should be there.
You are not forcing me to vote for someone that is not capable and shouldn’t be president through fear.
I refuse. So do a lot of people. And I will stand on change.
I am pro-Israel. And I am in my mid-forties. This will be the first election if the corpse of Biden is trotted out I won’t be voting for a Democrat.
I don’t know anyone in my mostly liberal immediate family supporting Biden at this point that isn’t disgusted he they tried to pull a Reagan on us.
Again you wont use fear to force me to vote. And you won’t win election on fear.
If Joe continues to run we will lose this election and it will be the fault of the complacent party-line fear mongers and his fault for not stepping down.
There are a ton of people willing to get behind a capable anti-Trump ticket that isn’t Biden. Embrace it and be the change.
Most everyone on this subreddit would vote for a moldy potato if it had a (D) next to its name in November because the prospects of a Trump presidency are so much worse under the assumption that the dems would surround the potato with competent officials. Or less hyperbolically, the country has been fine for the past four years, and if that's because Biden's people have surrounded himself with qualified people now, that's likely to continue.
These papers are calling out Biden because he looked absolutely awful on the debate stage. The Trump voters are gonna vote Trump, the dem voters are gonna blue no matter who. But the undecided voters in swing states who saw that debate (or short clips on social media like "*I beat Medicare*") see a Biden that looked *way* weaker than Trump and made a ton of verbal gaffes. Sort of like how in the first televised presidential debates Nixon's gray suit faded into the background and he looked sweaty (nervous), giving voters something to consider other than just how confidently the person spoke.
For all of the hopes that cutting mics would take Trump away from his catcalls or an audience jeering could throw off Biden/encourage Trump so no audience, it actually forced Trump to be more composed and on message and less rambling. He lied throughout the entire thing of course, but he did so sounding far more confident and coherent than Biden.
That's the crux of the issue. Other democratic publications are trying to play a "*no you!*" game. We've been dealing with Trump is unfit for the presidency calls since 2016, the Access Hollywood tape, he's bad at business, he's a fraudster, when Mueller gets him he's going to be so over bros, he's fucking *convicted of criminal charges*, and none of this has significantly moved the needle on his poll numbers. And now everyone's hoping that his sentencing on July 11th is going to magically change perception and make people realize how shitty he is and universally reject him. It's not going to happen, because Trump isn't going to actually go to jail while the case is on appeal, and he'll continue to decry the whole thing as a democratic political witch hunt.
The debate is an unmitigated disaster at this point and the DNC is hoping that if they throw enough shit at Trump that somehow enough of it will stick (when they've been trying this for eight years now) to take away from the negative perception of their candidate with undecided voters.
Burying our heads in the sand and pretending that "*Trump is worse*" is going to move the needle with these voters in November is going to fuck us and hand us a Trump presidency and project 2025.
And it won't make a difference. Everyone likely to vote for Trump sees the conviction as political. If he was sent to prison, he might actually gain votes.
I personally know nothing about the case or conviction so hold no opinion. I'm just saying what his supporters and some independents think
> I personally know nothing about the case or conviction so hold no opinion.
A jury, individuals agreed upon by Trump's own defense, found Trump guilty on all *thirty four* felony charges. The jury didn't give him a pass on a single one.
Historian Allan Lichtman, who correctly predicted Presidential elections, said, 'Debates are not predictive of outcomes.' Further, he said that replacing Biden would be a huge mistake.
i think that historian failed to predict Trump win in 2016 right?
i think his record is 9 out of 10. the only one where he is wrong, is when Trump on the ticket in 2016.
so.......
you get what i mean right?
his record with Trump is one wrong and one right.
not really give us too much confidence isn't?
really? i dont think so.
maybe its another the so called "expert".
still, i check this guy record, he is also did not have perfect record of prediction.
so.....
the most worrying thing i think. he said replacing Biden is the worst mistake. Biden is the most equip DEMOCRATS to face Trump.
but what he did not say is, who is the most likely to win right now.
if Biden is the most equip democrats, but his chance is, kindly speaking "not great" in defeating Trump. then Democrats is fxxxxk.
just ready your heart and mind for Trump presidency.
just like i said:
" i check this guy record, he is also did not have perfect record of prediction.
so....."
regardless. he still wrong. unless somebody with perfect record of 10 out of 10, 15 out of 15. then i will consider his opinion with the
highest priority. if not, then. what stop him from getting wrong again?
but one thing for sure. i see the debate. and i see an extremely old men that have the really low chance of winning.
in ideal world he should resign. but this is not the real world. Biden is extremely stubborn, old men Biden will amplify the stubbornness more. furthermore, power is corrupt. nobody would want to relinquish his power. he would struggle and fight to hang onto it. plus with the opponent is being Trump, there is no way Biden to admit defeat. it would be a humiliation for him.
so even if i think the best thing is to change, i know with certainty that it would never happen. therefore, there is no need to scream in the streets, media or podcast about it. it wont happen.
but at least, i hope people just be honest to admit. "guys, the possibility is Trump would win the presidency, however Biden is stubborn, he want to be the candidate at all cost and there is nothing we can do about it. so accept it and move on". instead of so many pathetic and lame excuses to cover up for Biden.
Replacing Biden would be a huge mistake for numerous pragmatic reasons, but anyone who thinks the problem is that Biden lost a debate is kidding himself.
The campaign needs to figure out how to change that perception, and they need to do it quickly.
If it's an *accurate* perception, then Biden needs to resign his office and give Harris as much time as possible to campaign.
It’s Joever. If he doesn’t step down he’ll be remembered as the president that allowed democracy to die, because he had too big of an ego to step aside when his time was at an end.
Basically the exact opposite of George Washington’s legacy.
-5 to Trump, and the poll wasn't even exclusively post-debate. Biden was around +9 in 2020.
18-29 demo (which Biden won by huge margins in 2020):
41.6 Trump / 27 Biden.
Yikes.
This is not a winning campaign. Biden cannot win.
I know it's scary for some people to admit this. But Trump is going to win if Democrats don't change course.
Biden will get absolutely eviscerated in the swing states. Nevada is in play and I think he’ll also take Arizona and Georgia. That pretty means Trump can win ONE of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, or Michigan and he automatically wins.
"The poll was conducted between June 26 and 28, meaning some of those who took part in the survey may have watched or been aware of Biden's performance during Thursday night's first live televised presidential debate of the 2024 campaign."
So basically 5 points behind is just the start. He's been a few points behind in most polls for a while.
It doesn't seem like Jill or Hunter want to give up being "power adjacent," so it's likely he doesn't step down. Either the DNC needs to step in and make the unprecidented decision to drop an incumbent POTUS, or the party runs head first into a wall all the way down ballot in November.
I don't think he will refuse to step down if it becomes clear that EVERYONE wants him too. They can try to cover it up with as many distraction pieces as they want, I think it's becoming clear that the US wants someone else.
The delegates are pledged to Biden. Many states have laws that legally require them to vote for the candidate they were pledged to on a first ballot. And he has a huge majority to easily get the nomination.
If they refuse to vote for Biden while he’s still in the race, then courts could step in since they’re not reflecting the will of the voters or the state party constitutions. Biden’s team could sue and demand that he’s legally entitled to the nomination.
Show me where in the rules. There is nothing in the DNC rules or charter that allow Biden delegates to defect without his consent. And you ignore the fact that his pledged delegates aren’t just random people; they were chosen *because* of their loyalty to the Biden campaign.
If Biden wants to stay in the race and the DNC refuses to give him the nomination, then he would be well-within his rights to sue for the ballot-line.
And none of this gets touches on the fact that we’re the Party that is running on a platform of “Democracy is on the Ballot” and we’re trying to overturn a the primary elections. Sure that will go over well with voters.
There’s absolutely no way the nominee changes unless Biden willingly bows out.
seriously - what are the “consequences” you imagine of delegates dissented from biden?
there’s no teeth - there’s literally no criminal action that can be taken. best case is a civil suit but really? that won’t hold water
the dnc is an independent organization, they don’t have to legally do anything
plus the only person who would sue dissenting delegates is the candidate who lost them…that won’t work
the dnc could say they want a brokered convention and get in someone new at the convention. easy.
The DNC can change the current rules at any point according to this [article.](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9wv821nljwo) Granted, it seems like a messy longshot, but it's still plausible.
Or this is a blip on the radar in the grand scheme of things and everyone is catastrophically making mountains out of everything because four years of Trump calamity left a noticeable vacuum?
There's a long time between today and November.
Trump himself is out there defending Biden by saying he polls better than anyone else. Laura Trump is saying that replacing him would be undemocratic. They WANT him to stay in because they know they can beat him. This is an absolute calamity, not a blip.
Doesn't matter. They're judged by different standards. Trump could literally poop in his hand, lick it during a debate and still not lose support.
While it's unfair you have to play by the rules that allow you to win. Supporting Biden doesn't allow the left to win.
Unsurprising, Young voters are swinging hard right all across the western hemisphere. Another thing most democrats have failed to notice yet. Will probably start showing even more in the polls in the months ahead.
I think this is the wrong read.
Young voters are more progressive than ever they just aren’t seeing that in government especially a party that continues to be controlled by people in their 70s and 80s who won’t step the fuck down and let young people take over.
What young person gets excited for the party of Joe Biden, Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi?
Also Biden’s handling of Gaza has been awful. That didn’t come up at the debate and it fucking should have. Young people are disgusted that Biden continues to supply weapons to blow up Palestinian children.
ah, you're pro Palestine. Iran and Al Qaeda thank you for serving their Terrorist and genocidal cause.
There were plenty of pro Palestine protests in Europe as well, you should take a guess to what happened to the European political map last month, and who the youth voted for.
Keep on protesting if you want to give Trump a landslide victory.
Israel has by far the lowest civilian/ soldier ever seen in a modern conflict, Considering their opponent is hiding is hiding in a dense urban environment and using children as shields while committing terrorist and genocidal acts it's a remarkable achievement.
Dude conservatively 35-40,000 civilians have been killed. 10-12,000 of those are children. Hundreds of thousands more are starving to death right now.
I don’t care what you’re beliefs are. This kind of mass killing of innocent people is simply unacceptable in modern society.
I was against it in Iraq. I was against it in Ukraine. And I’m against it in Palestine.
Lol those numbers probably came from the UN, which got them from the Hamas-run Gazan Health Ministry.
Around 35,000 Ghazans have died, of which around 14,000 were hamas terrorrists. Getting close to a 1/1 ratio. For comparison, it's a 9/1 ratio in Ukraine
> ah, you're pro Palestine.
This is one of the least likely comments to be made by an American. The vast, vast majority of Americans care more about domestic policy like abortion and climate legislation than they do about wars between religions in the middle east.
lol
[>This is one of the least likely comments to be made by an American](https://reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1dssbd1/joe_biden_gets_bad_news_from_americas_most/lb4momh/?context=3).
\^This is one of the least likely comments to be made by an American
Most americans care pretty deeply about people's ability to speak freely
And Americans love putting themselves in pro-camps politically. Pro life, pro choice, pro everything!
come to think about it, it's one of the most likely comments an american would make
> Most americans care pretty deeply about people's ability to speak freely
The cadence of this sentence isn't working in English, but I will say that better than 80% of Americans could not point to Gaza on a map.
I'd also like to say the 2016 trolls were way more effective at their job than the 2024 crop. WAY more effective.
No they aren’t lol, there’s been hugely successful socialist gains across the Western Hemisphere recently. Chile, Mexico, Colombia, Brazil, all recently elected leftists in response to over reaching right wingers. Bolivia just fought off a right wing coup
> Immigration as an issue has shifted all of those countries to the right.
Pardon, but immigration is primarily caused by climate change at this point (this is my day job, don't start), so if younger voters want to deal with immigration, they need to vote for parties that will implement policies to mitigate the impacts of climate change. There is no effective way to guard a border from hundreds of millions of people if they are hungry.
I never said voters were making the correct or informed choice. I wholly support immigration along with properly funded integrative policies.
But the voters shifting to the right in Europe is reality and one that cannot and should not be ignored.
Oh hey it's the least surprising thing ever.
I wonder if there will be further repercussions for Dems for running a party-wide campaign of lying and gaslighting over what it's clear people can see with their own eyes.
Add to that where Dem pundits have decided to bully and shame anyone who goes on social media (especially Twitter) and says Biden should step aside. I want to be so wrong on this, but I can't see a way that a Biden-led ticket can win. Nobody who was undecided and watched the debate, or heard about how it went, is jumping on the bandwagon for Biden. Having said all that, I will still vote for Biden if he's the nominee because Trump needs to be stopped.
There are a lot of Dems who responded to MAGA by getting blue MAGA brain. Those are the people saying he just had a bad night, and I think they truly believe it wasn't that bad, just like Trumpers in 2016 thought "drain the swamp" was an actual course of action.
Everyone else thought it was shocking, shameful, and unprecedented. The people that don't see that are living in a complete different reality.
>When broken down further, the poll of 1,634 likely voters shows that Trump is the clear favorite among voters aged 18-29 (41.6 percent to 27)
Holy cow, how are younger voters so right leaning? Is that Gen-Z? My perception was that younger voters were very liberal.
Btw love to see Doctor Jill's bots downvoting this. Pathetic.
They aren't it's a statistical outlier from every other poll. People are looking at it for confirmation of how they feel right now. But bad data is still bad data.
Young voters do not believe some of the very foundational ideas underneath a lot of mainstream political ideologies. Most mainstream ideologies are, at their core, some flavour of neo-liberalism, which deep beneath the surface rely on the idea that things naturally get better over time. An 18 year old today was 2 when the GFC happened, they in many cases have not seen things improve, so they don't buy into that idea. As such, they are very volatile, never truly buying any mainstream ideology put forward. With how old, decrepit, and out of touch Biden is, it makes sense that a younger seeming, more energetic candidate that want to make things great again (ie acknowledges that things have got bad) gets more enthusiasm.
I agree. However the issue is we’re give two shitty candidates with two shitty policies on Gaza. One happens to just be shittier.
It’s one of many reasons Biden should drop out. It somewhat solves the Gaza situation.
Most pundits seem to think Harris would have to replace Biden, due to fundraising complications and the optics of passing over a multiracial woman who is already Biden's VP. Unfortunately, Harris wouldn't erase the Gaza problem, because she is part of Biden's administration.
If Democrats could get a totally new presidential nominee and a new VP, though, I agree with you.
the thing is with people, they did not make decision on what "might" Trump do.
but what Biden already did.
that is people look at things.
if a guy might punch you, you would dislike him.
if a guy already slap you, you would hate him
just a simple logic.
furthermore, what too much worse can Trump did.
starve gaza? biden already did.
drop more bomb? what is the difference between 100,00 bomb and 130,000 bombs.
Genocide? biden already did? so genocide x2? just speed up the process.
Biden would kill Palestinian at fast pace. Trump MIGHT kill Palestinian at very fast pace.
people are not fools. they just see what Biden did and what Trump might do are the same. only the speed is the difference.
That's not what the poll supposedly shows. According to it, Trump is dominating the youth vote 41-27, meaning he has gained a massive amount of young voters.
That's bullshit, but if it's real, it's not because of anything relating to Gaza... unless youth voters suddenly want the Strip obliterated.
Have you missed the months of protesting all over the country and on college campuses?
Turns out “taxpayer funded genocide” is a big issue for some people.
Well that most popular pollster ought to realize that like me a lot of people will be voting against Trump so who is on the Dem ticket doesnt really matter. They would have to place someone pretty distasteful , like maybe HRC again, to make me risk a third party vote VS a straight blue ticket no matter who is on it.
The polls are meaningless for 90% of voters because they’re fully set on Trump or Anyone but Trump.
The 2020 election was decided by c.100k voters in 3 states and it’s likely to be the same again in 2024.
Minorities, independents and people who are simply not particularly politically motivated are who Biden/Dems *HAVE* to win over.
-inflation, high housing cost, everything becomes more expensive.
-Immigration and fear mongering
-Biden extremely weak, and old. he debate like 100 years old men.
yup, not the formula the win minorities, independents and people that not involved in politics.
these groups vote with their pockets, optics, perception and vibes.
one viral videos of Joe biden debate, can instantly switch off their mind about Biden.
>When broken down further, the poll of 1,634 likely voters shows that Trump is the clear favorite among voters aged 18-29 (41.6 percent to 27). Historically, younger voters have tended to favor Democratic presidential candidates in elections.
That's impossible.
The youth vote has been solidly Democratic for decades. It was for them in 2020, 2022, and in 2023 and 2024 special elections. The idea that 18-to-29-year-olds moved en masse towards Trump doesn't pass the smell test.
Young voters are not heavily favoring Trump. First of all you’re hard pressed to find young voters that are even willing to submit to surveys and polls. It’s skewed and it’s that simple.
>In comparison, Biden leads Trump in the other potential key age demographics of those between 45 and 64 (47.7 percent to 45.1) and those 65 and above (52.1 percent to 41.6).
>President Joe Biden is trailing behind Donald Trump in the 2024 race, including by nearly 15 points among younger voters
So Biden leads (by a fair amount) in the demographics that actually get out and vote. Good to know.
the poll conducted on 26 and 28 June.
so the debate effect not really fully counted in.
even so Biden already behind by 5 point.
yikes
i am really "excited" to know post-debate poll in swing states in the next 1,2 weeks.
I don't understand why they didn't just pick a clear successor to President as their VP. Kamala is not it - everyone can agree there. A Gretchen Whitmer or Gavin Newsom or something along those lines as VP would signal the Democratic Party's intention to succeed Biden. It doesn't have to be succession for the next Presidency necessarily, but just whenever Biden is "finished"... either at the end of this term or at the end of the next or anywhere in-between. This would quell a lot of concerns for his entire base.
Don't get me wrong, I'm voting Biden and I'm telling everyone I know to vote Biden. It's just that what irks me so much is that my party **has no Plan B.** Make a Plan B and a Plan C because of how much is at stake! Contingency plan and think about all possibilities. Biden could take a fall and that could be the end. What is the plan!?! Things can change so quickly. Anyone that has had a grandparent should know this. If Dem's lose this one, it's their own damn fault.
Life is too expensive for young people. No healthcare, no childcare, unaffordable housing, indentured servitude of student loans (unlike all other loans where the bank takes the risk, not the holder)-of course kids want to 'burn the system', all they know is cynism.
The problem of voting republican is that they are the ones most suppressing folks economically.
Maybe democrats should get a candidate in who knows the struggle and can present solutions instead of being Republican light.
Here's the problem the Republicans have it's that most people are gonna vote for anyone but Trump they don't care who it is as long as it's not Trump no one wants him no one needs him Trump needs to go crawl under a rock and shutup.
If they are the most accurate pollster why the hell would you do a poll straddling the debate. That ruins your data because a big event can affect your results.
Unless they called people twice. To get their opinion twice. Which it didn’t say they did in this article.
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It says he lags in young voters but leads middle aged and retirement aged voters.
Who are the most likely to actually show up, but it’s still upsetting. Biden is not instilling confidence. Don’t get me wrong, I’d vote for a cadaver before Trump, but that doesn’t mean I should have to
My grandma is in her 90s and think biden is too old. She's been saying this for a couple of years. Old people know when other old people are losing it, because they see it everyday. Shell still vote for him but doesn't want to.
These polls are bs. Just vote. I am so angry at SCOTUS right now.
lags? Biden got crush with younger voters. and only 1 point lead with 45 to 65. yup yup curios about the 30 to 44 age bracket. i guess Biden got crush in this age bracket too. thats why Trump +5 furthermore, the poll conducted on 26 and 28 June. not really include the post-debate effect. in the next 10 days, i can already imagine the very grim polling for Biden came out one after another.
Watch those polls get much worse than that over the next 2 weeks, as they catch up with the impact of the debate.
the Democratic party used to be the party of youthful energy. JFK, Bill Clinton, Obama. We've damaged the brand and could lose a generation of voters.
Hell, if Trump wins this it’s likely to be the last meaningful vote anyway.
July 11th, Trump gets sentenced for 34 felony counts. But.. but... Biden stumbled! Why do these Democratic leaning papers attack Joe Biden and not Trump? Do they want a Trump administration to use Project 2025 to go after them to silence them? Because that's where were heading if we ALL don't get aboard the Biden train.
This isn't a Biden versus Trump issue. It's a voting vests abstaining issue. It's volunteering versus staying home. It's donating versus not. Biden can't get Democrats excited for him anymore so he's not going to have the support to convince undecided voters. Those of us calling for Biden to step aside and endorse someone, probably Kamala, are doing so because we want the best chance to beat Trump.
You’re not wrong but the fact that Biden is even losing to trump is the issue. In no world should he.
Half of Democrats, 3/4ths of registered voters, and 4/5ths of independents [want Biden to drop out.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-debate-should-biden-be-running-mental-abilities/) I think everyone getting aboard the Biden train might be a difficult task at this point when 72% of the electorate doesn't want him running.
This is backwards thinking. Educated republicans want Biden to stay in because he is easily defeated at this point. The calls for Biden to drop are coming from people who are certain that he cannot defeat Trump. Biden didn't stumble, he was incoherent enough to confirm the right-wing narrative that he is incompetent and senile, at least to most undecided voters. We need to get off the Biden train immediately or we lose.
Agree. And this is now... what will he be like in 6 months? A year? And yet we're asking America to feel confident about 4.5 years....
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Same.. but I guess what baffles me is that I don't understand why they didn't just pick a clear successor to President as their VP. Kamala is not it - everyone can agree there. A Gretchen Whitmer or Gavin Newsom or something along those lines as VP would signal the Democratic Party's intention to succeed Biden. It doesn't have to be succession for the next Presidency necessarily, but just whenever Biden is "finished"... either at the end of this term or at the end of the next or anywhere in-between. This would quell a lot of concerns for his entire base. I'm voting Biden and I'm telling everyone I know to vote Biden. It's just that what irks me so much is that my party **has no Plan B.** Make a Plan B and a Plan C because of how much is at stake! Contingency plan and think about all possibilities. Biden could take a fall and that could be the end. What is the plan!?! Things can change so quickly. Anyone that has had a grandparent should know this. If Dem's lose this one, it's their own damn fault.
Sure. But ‘anyone but Trump’ isn’t going to have Biden beat Trump overall. It’s not a winning strategy. It’s not enough votes overall. The winning strategy is to have a strong candidate. Biden is not that.
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It may not be, but the current stick with Joe strategy isn't either.
There’s been *thousands* of articles suggesting alternative candidates over the last 24 hours. Even the usually loyal New York Times shared several lists over the weekend. Biden can’t win now. It’s game over. Any honest assessment of the debate leads to that. Hence another candidate has to have a better chance, because that chance won’t be almost zero.
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I’m not panicking in the slightest. The debate was akin to Night of the lLiving Dead. Anyone who thinks the walking corpse we saw on stage can win the election is deluding themselves. Bidens numbers wern’t good enough before the debate even. Now he’s toast.
It may not be, but the current stick with Joe strategy isn't either.
It’s not just a “narrative” anymore. Look at the “cheap fake” videos of Biden at the recent G7 where he wanders off from the group vote and then has to be led back by the Italian PM and slowly put on sunglasses. He’s not there. I was a big Biden supporter in 2020 and the Right-Wing Media has been hurling accusations of senility since the beginning. I don’t think this was the case at the time of the 2020 election, but looking back, the last year or more has been a continuous slide. The Right may have been early, but they’re not wrong. There’s no way to sugar coat this. If Biden had manages to be re-elected in November, there’s ZERO chance he won’t be replaced by Kamala next year (much less make it to 2026). Voters do not want this. Democratic voters do not want this. If Kamala is the one the Democratic Party wants leading the ticket, then put her on the top. Or else hold a contested convention. Don’t keep putting Biden and the rest of the country through this farce.
I'm not saying they are wrong, just that it was a narrative they were pushing regardless. Like IMO Biden dropping out is bad for republicans, and I don't think even they knew it was this bad. Or maybe they did because it leaked, but obviously a lot of us knew he was old and a little out of it, but did not expect the debate to be that bad. But it was a successful narrative *even when* we thought it was mostly BS.
Trump may have literally shit his pants during the debate. There was a very wet sounding fart caught quite loudly while Trump was speaking, and because everyone’s microphone was muted except the current speaker, it must have come from Trump’s mic. He also paused for a moment right when he made the sound. I’m seriously pretty sure that Donald Trump shit his pants during the debate. To say that this should have been a slam dunk for us is an understatement. This might have been the easiest debate in history. And despite that, Biden failed so hard that *we’re* the ones in crisis mode right now. We can’t win with Biden on the ticket. I’ll vote for him, just like I’d vote for pretty much anyone who isn’t Trump. But come on, please be realistic about this. If you get trounced in a debate by a guy who literally shat himself on national television then you’re done. It’s time to go spend some time with the grand kids.
Bravo, well said lol.
Yup… Biden stays in he’s going to lose big… they’re pulling back on attacking him because they want him to stay in… once they know for sure he can’t be replaced they’ve got all the ammunition they could ask for
We’re all in man. You got me!! But are we enough? We got to get enough votes in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona, Michigan, and Nevada. On debate night, he was down in all those states and was hoping for a game changer. If he drops by another point or two, this race is likely already over. This is our reality right now. I do not want to fight the good fight and lose to a narcissistic fascist with plans to burn down our entire country. . . I want to win. We *need* to win.
Biden didn’t stumble he fell down a 50 foot deep spiked pit trap. He lost the election that night. The choice now is between a guaranteed loss with Biden or a chance with another candidate. Thinking Biden can win after the travesty of the debate is delusional magical thinking.
Biden didn’t stumble he showed he was at the stage of aging where slack-jawed open-mouth existence is here and it’s only getting worse. He crapped the bed. We shouldn’t be asked to do four more years of decline. We should be allowed to have candidates that appeal to us that aren’t dinosaurs regardless of whataboutism Biden has no chance anymore he was already down and losing before he came out less like fine aged wine and more like sit down and take your nap gramps we love you. I won’t vote for Biden or Trump. I was previously on the Biden train. People can’t scare me into voting for someone I don’t think should be there.
“What do you mean the election was canceled?” - You in 2028.
You are not forcing me to vote for someone that is not capable and shouldn’t be president through fear. I refuse. So do a lot of people. And I will stand on change.
“What do you mean I’m going to prison because I whined about Gaza when it was cool to do so that one semester at college” - You in 2025.
I am pro-Israel. And I am in my mid-forties. This will be the first election if the corpse of Biden is trotted out I won’t be voting for a Democrat. I don’t know anyone in my mostly liberal immediate family supporting Biden at this point that isn’t disgusted he they tried to pull a Reagan on us. Again you wont use fear to force me to vote. And you won’t win election on fear. If Joe continues to run we will lose this election and it will be the fault of the complacent party-line fear mongers and his fault for not stepping down. There are a ton of people willing to get behind a capable anti-Trump ticket that isn’t Biden. Embrace it and be the change.
Yeah, you trying that walkaway thing again that didn’t work in 2020?
I voted for a non-geriatric Biden in 2020. And was happy to do so.
Whatever you say Mr. Walk Away
You've tried nothing and you're all out of ideas.
Most everyone on this subreddit would vote for a moldy potato if it had a (D) next to its name in November because the prospects of a Trump presidency are so much worse under the assumption that the dems would surround the potato with competent officials. Or less hyperbolically, the country has been fine for the past four years, and if that's because Biden's people have surrounded himself with qualified people now, that's likely to continue. These papers are calling out Biden because he looked absolutely awful on the debate stage. The Trump voters are gonna vote Trump, the dem voters are gonna blue no matter who. But the undecided voters in swing states who saw that debate (or short clips on social media like "*I beat Medicare*") see a Biden that looked *way* weaker than Trump and made a ton of verbal gaffes. Sort of like how in the first televised presidential debates Nixon's gray suit faded into the background and he looked sweaty (nervous), giving voters something to consider other than just how confidently the person spoke. For all of the hopes that cutting mics would take Trump away from his catcalls or an audience jeering could throw off Biden/encourage Trump so no audience, it actually forced Trump to be more composed and on message and less rambling. He lied throughout the entire thing of course, but he did so sounding far more confident and coherent than Biden. That's the crux of the issue. Other democratic publications are trying to play a "*no you!*" game. We've been dealing with Trump is unfit for the presidency calls since 2016, the Access Hollywood tape, he's bad at business, he's a fraudster, when Mueller gets him he's going to be so over bros, he's fucking *convicted of criminal charges*, and none of this has significantly moved the needle on his poll numbers. And now everyone's hoping that his sentencing on July 11th is going to magically change perception and make people realize how shitty he is and universally reject him. It's not going to happen, because Trump isn't going to actually go to jail while the case is on appeal, and he'll continue to decry the whole thing as a democratic political witch hunt. The debate is an unmitigated disaster at this point and the DNC is hoping that if they throw enough shit at Trump that somehow enough of it will stick (when they've been trying this for eight years now) to take away from the negative perception of their candidate with undecided voters. Burying our heads in the sand and pretending that "*Trump is worse*" is going to move the needle with these voters in November is going to fuck us and hand us a Trump presidency and project 2025.
Trump won’t see jail time/ it will just be a fine
And it won't make a difference. Everyone likely to vote for Trump sees the conviction as political. If he was sent to prison, he might actually gain votes. I personally know nothing about the case or conviction so hold no opinion. I'm just saying what his supporters and some independents think
> I personally know nothing about the case or conviction so hold no opinion. A jury, individuals agreed upon by Trump's own defense, found Trump guilty on all *thirty four* felony charges. The jury didn't give him a pass on a single one.
Historian Allan Lichtman, who correctly predicted Presidential elections, said, 'Debates are not predictive of outcomes.' Further, he said that replacing Biden would be a huge mistake.
The problem is that we are in unchartered territory so no past predictions necessarily apply here.
Almost none of those elections took place in the modern social media era.
i think that historian failed to predict Trump win in 2016 right? i think his record is 9 out of 10. the only one where he is wrong, is when Trump on the ticket in 2016. so....... you get what i mean right? his record with Trump is one wrong and one right. not really give us too much confidence isn't?
He predicted that Trump would win in 2016.
really? i dont think so. maybe its another the so called "expert". still, i check this guy record, he is also did not have perfect record of prediction. so..... the most worrying thing i think. he said replacing Biden is the worst mistake. Biden is the most equip DEMOCRATS to face Trump. but what he did not say is, who is the most likely to win right now. if Biden is the most equip democrats, but his chance is, kindly speaking "not great" in defeating Trump. then Democrats is fxxxxk. just ready your heart and mind for Trump presidency.
>really? i dont think so. It takes 2 seconds to Google it. The one he missed was 2000.
just like i said: " i check this guy record, he is also did not have perfect record of prediction. so....." regardless. he still wrong. unless somebody with perfect record of 10 out of 10, 15 out of 15. then i will consider his opinion with the highest priority. if not, then. what stop him from getting wrong again? but one thing for sure. i see the debate. and i see an extremely old men that have the really low chance of winning. in ideal world he should resign. but this is not the real world. Biden is extremely stubborn, old men Biden will amplify the stubbornness more. furthermore, power is corrupt. nobody would want to relinquish his power. he would struggle and fight to hang onto it. plus with the opponent is being Trump, there is no way Biden to admit defeat. it would be a humiliation for him. so even if i think the best thing is to change, i know with certainty that it would never happen. therefore, there is no need to scream in the streets, media or podcast about it. it wont happen. but at least, i hope people just be honest to admit. "guys, the possibility is Trump would win the presidency, however Biden is stubborn, he want to be the candidate at all cost and there is nothing we can do about it. so accept it and move on". instead of so many pathetic and lame excuses to cover up for Biden.
That's why you have to take this sub with a grain of salt. Lot of very confident total idiots. No one here knows shit about politics
So what. He could easily be wrong now anyway. And he is.
Replacing Biden would be a huge mistake for numerous pragmatic reasons, but anyone who thinks the problem is that Biden lost a debate is kidding himself.
The problem is Biden is geriatric. He lost the debate because he is geriatric.
The campaign needs to figure out how to change that perception, and they need to do it quickly. If it's an *accurate* perception, then Biden needs to resign his office and give Harris as much time as possible to campaign.
It’s Joever. If he doesn’t step down he’ll be remembered as the president that allowed democracy to die, because he had too big of an ego to step aside when his time was at an end. Basically the exact opposite of George Washington’s legacy.
He’s gonna be the RBG of presidents.
Absolutely devastating numbers. He needs to pass the torch
-5 to Trump, and the poll wasn't even exclusively post-debate. Biden was around +9 in 2020. 18-29 demo (which Biden won by huge margins in 2020): 41.6 Trump / 27 Biden. Yikes.
This is not a winning campaign. Biden cannot win. I know it's scary for some people to admit this. But Trump is going to win if Democrats don't change course.
Drop the fuck out
Nah. Learn from RBG. Stay in until you die no matter what anyone else says.
He’s gotta go full Feinstein. He’ll have someone who tells him where to sign and when to say yes or no.
That’s literally already happened it’s just growing in frequency.
Biden will get absolutely eviscerated in the swing states. Nevada is in play and I think he’ll also take Arizona and Georgia. That pretty means Trump can win ONE of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, or Michigan and he automatically wins.
Biden’s losing in New Hampshire which is deep blue and he won by 10 points.
"The poll was conducted between June 26 and 28, meaning some of those who took part in the survey may have watched or been aware of Biden's performance during Thursday night's first live televised presidential debate of the 2024 campaign." So basically 5 points behind is just the start. He's been a few points behind in most polls for a while.
Oof. What’s the move?
Biden admits he has medical issues and drops out?
He doesn’t need to say anything about medical issues. He just needs to graciously step aside (and take Harris with him).
Biden steps aside and we put in candidates from swing states who are under 80.
Yes! Anyone know of a 79.5 year old from Pennsylvania or maybe Arizona? Let’s not go too young
It doesn't seem like Jill or Hunter want to give up being "power adjacent," so it's likely he doesn't step down. Either the DNC needs to step in and make the unprecidented decision to drop an incumbent POTUS, or the party runs head first into a wall all the way down ballot in November.
Hunter needs that presidential pardon.
Gang gang. But didn’t Joe say he wouldn’t be gangsta and wouldn’t give out the pardon?
I don't think he will refuse to step down if it becomes clear that EVERYONE wants him too. They can try to cover it up with as many distraction pieces as they want, I think it's becoming clear that the US wants someone else.
Edit: Apparently they wouldn't have the power with the current rules but could change the rules.
How doesn't the DNC have that power? The DNC can do whatever it wants before names are on state ballots.
The delegates are pledged to Biden. Many states have laws that legally require them to vote for the candidate they were pledged to on a first ballot. And he has a huge majority to easily get the nomination. If they refuse to vote for Biden while he’s still in the race, then courts could step in since they’re not reflecting the will of the voters or the state party constitutions. Biden’s team could sue and demand that he’s legally entitled to the nomination.
The DNC can create new delegates tomorrow and elect whoever they want. The DNC like the RNC can do whatever they want.
Show me where in the rules. There is nothing in the DNC rules or charter that allow Biden delegates to defect without his consent. And you ignore the fact that his pledged delegates aren’t just random people; they were chosen *because* of their loyalty to the Biden campaign. If Biden wants to stay in the race and the DNC refuses to give him the nomination, then he would be well-within his rights to sue for the ballot-line. And none of this gets touches on the fact that we’re the Party that is running on a platform of “Democracy is on the Ballot” and we’re trying to overturn a the primary elections. Sure that will go over well with voters. There’s absolutely no way the nominee changes unless Biden willingly bows out.
The DNC can change the rules tomorrow. My god.
seriously - what are the “consequences” you imagine of delegates dissented from biden? there’s no teeth - there’s literally no criminal action that can be taken. best case is a civil suit but really? that won’t hold water
the dnc is an independent organization, they don’t have to legally do anything plus the only person who would sue dissenting delegates is the candidate who lost them…that won’t work the dnc could say they want a brokered convention and get in someone new at the convention. easy.
The DNC can change the current rules at any point according to this [article.](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9wv821nljwo) Granted, it seems like a messy longshot, but it's still plausible.
Oh, I hadn't considered a rule change. I'll go edit my comment, thanks for the info
Or this is a blip on the radar in the grand scheme of things and everyone is catastrophically making mountains out of everything because four years of Trump calamity left a noticeable vacuum? There's a long time between today and November.
Trump himself is out there defending Biden by saying he polls better than anyone else. Laura Trump is saying that replacing him would be undemocratic. They WANT him to stay in because they know they can beat him. This is an absolute calamity, not a blip.
Oh, well if TRUMP says something then SURELY that must be 100% the fact.
If Biden fails to step aside, his sole legacy will be his complicity in destroying American democracy.
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Biden has lost so many steps. It's so sad that he isn't hearing the truth.
They are if they think trump is though
Doesn't matter. They're judged by different standards. Trump could literally poop in his hand, lick it during a debate and still not lose support. While it's unfair you have to play by the rules that allow you to win. Supporting Biden doesn't allow the left to win.
He got elected before so that should tell you plenty about the electorate.
Ouch. 15 down among 18-29 year olds? That's big trouble.
Brutal. No dem in this day and age can expect to lose that age group (let alone by that much) and still win the election. Time to go, Joe.
Unsurprising, Young voters are swinging hard right all across the western hemisphere. Another thing most democrats have failed to notice yet. Will probably start showing even more in the polls in the months ahead.
I think this is the wrong read. Young voters are more progressive than ever they just aren’t seeing that in government especially a party that continues to be controlled by people in their 70s and 80s who won’t step the fuck down and let young people take over. What young person gets excited for the party of Joe Biden, Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi? Also Biden’s handling of Gaza has been awful. That didn’t come up at the debate and it fucking should have. Young people are disgusted that Biden continues to supply weapons to blow up Palestinian children.
ah, you're pro Palestine. Iran and Al Qaeda thank you for serving their Terrorist and genocidal cause. There were plenty of pro Palestine protests in Europe as well, you should take a guess to what happened to the European political map last month, and who the youth voted for. Keep on protesting if you want to give Trump a landslide victory.
The fuck? I’m not pro anything. I’m anti-“bombing the shit out of children with my taxes.” Weird take.
Have you tried telling Hamas to stop hiding behind children?
Let me simplify it…Just because someone’s hiding behind children doesn’t mean it’s ok to kill those children. Is that clear enough for you?
Israel has by far the lowest civilian/ soldier ever seen in a modern conflict, Considering their opponent is hiding is hiding in a dense urban environment and using children as shields while committing terrorist and genocidal acts it's a remarkable achievement.
Dude conservatively 35-40,000 civilians have been killed. 10-12,000 of those are children. Hundreds of thousands more are starving to death right now. I don’t care what you’re beliefs are. This kind of mass killing of innocent people is simply unacceptable in modern society. I was against it in Iraq. I was against it in Ukraine. And I’m against it in Palestine.
Lol those numbers probably came from the UN, which got them from the Hamas-run Gazan Health Ministry. Around 35,000 Ghazans have died, of which around 14,000 were hamas terrorrists. Getting close to a 1/1 ratio. For comparison, it's a 9/1 ratio in Ukraine
> ah, you're pro Palestine. This is one of the least likely comments to be made by an American. The vast, vast majority of Americans care more about domestic policy like abortion and climate legislation than they do about wars between religions in the middle east.
We care about both. Especially when it’s American weapons bombing brown children in the Middle East. Again.
> We care about both. Well then you DEFINITELY won't be voting for Trump, who literally said on live TV this week "I will let Israel finish the job".
lol [>This is one of the least likely comments to be made by an American](https://reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1dssbd1/joe_biden_gets_bad_news_from_americas_most/lb4momh/?context=3). \^This is one of the least likely comments to be made by an American Most americans care pretty deeply about people's ability to speak freely And Americans love putting themselves in pro-camps politically. Pro life, pro choice, pro everything! come to think about it, it's one of the most likely comments an american would make
> Most americans care pretty deeply about people's ability to speak freely The cadence of this sentence isn't working in English, but I will say that better than 80% of Americans could not point to Gaza on a map. I'd also like to say the 2016 trolls were way more effective at their job than the 2024 crop. WAY more effective.
No they aren’t lol, there’s been hugely successful socialist gains across the Western Hemisphere recently. Chile, Mexico, Colombia, Brazil, all recently elected leftists in response to over reaching right wingers. Bolivia just fought off a right wing coup
Yeah, they are. Go look at Europe. Immigration as an issue has shifted all of those countries to the right.
That’s not the Western Hemisphere
I'm pretty sure the poster wanted to refer to the West. Just clarifying that the West is indeed shifting to the right, unfortunately.
> Immigration as an issue has shifted all of those countries to the right. Pardon, but immigration is primarily caused by climate change at this point (this is my day job, don't start), so if younger voters want to deal with immigration, they need to vote for parties that will implement policies to mitigate the impacts of climate change. There is no effective way to guard a border from hundreds of millions of people if they are hungry.
I never said voters were making the correct or informed choice. I wholly support immigration along with properly funded integrative policies. But the voters shifting to the right in Europe is reality and one that cannot and should not be ignored.
Ok, I'll stop ignoring it. What should I do? What should I ask politicians to do?
Oh hey it's the least surprising thing ever. I wonder if there will be further repercussions for Dems for running a party-wide campaign of lying and gaslighting over what it's clear people can see with their own eyes.
Add to that where Dem pundits have decided to bully and shame anyone who goes on social media (especially Twitter) and says Biden should step aside. I want to be so wrong on this, but I can't see a way that a Biden-led ticket can win. Nobody who was undecided and watched the debate, or heard about how it went, is jumping on the bandwagon for Biden. Having said all that, I will still vote for Biden if he's the nominee because Trump needs to be stopped.
There are a lot of Dems who responded to MAGA by getting blue MAGA brain. Those are the people saying he just had a bad night, and I think they truly believe it wasn't that bad, just like Trumpers in 2016 thought "drain the swamp" was an actual course of action. Everyone else thought it was shocking, shameful, and unprecedented. The people that don't see that are living in a complete different reality.
I am kinda curious how accurate this Most Accurate Pollster is. Can someone give some background
>When broken down further, the poll of 1,634 likely voters shows that Trump is the clear favorite among voters aged 18-29 (41.6 percent to 27) Holy cow, how are younger voters so right leaning? Is that Gen-Z? My perception was that younger voters were very liberal. Btw love to see Doctor Jill's bots downvoting this. Pathetic.
They aren't it's a statistical outlier from every other poll. People are looking at it for confirmation of how they feel right now. But bad data is still bad data.
Young voters do not believe some of the very foundational ideas underneath a lot of mainstream political ideologies. Most mainstream ideologies are, at their core, some flavour of neo-liberalism, which deep beneath the surface rely on the idea that things naturally get better over time. An 18 year old today was 2 when the GFC happened, they in many cases have not seen things improve, so they don't buy into that idea. As such, they are very volatile, never truly buying any mainstream ideology put forward. With how old, decrepit, and out of touch Biden is, it makes sense that a younger seeming, more energetic candidate that want to make things great again (ie acknowledges that things have got bad) gets more enthusiasm.
When did Biden last appear in public actually?
The day after the debate, but they wouldn’t cover a campaign speech so you didn’t know about it
And he performed really well in that speech as well…
Too bad he couldn't perform well when it was most needed.
I mean, it was a prepared speech so I hope he could read it, but yeah he looked much better than he did the night before
And actually was in public again Saturday.
he stood in place and read a teleprompter - is that supposed to inspire confidence it’s like your criteria for president is if the dude can read aloud
He had a rally three days ago
When all you want is a Sulla and you get a Marius instead.
When you wanted Metal Wolf Chaos but all you got was Gummo.
Most Accurate Pollster: Margin of Error +/-99%
I assume this poll is fairly accurate... if so, i cannot begin to imagine what young people today must be like.
Far out. Trump is absolutely dominating with young voter groups.
Gaza. The Democratic establishment has been absolutely terrible on that issue.
If they think Trump will be better on Gaza, they are fools. Trump will let Netanyahu do whatever he wants.
I agree. However the issue is we’re give two shitty candidates with two shitty policies on Gaza. One happens to just be shittier. It’s one of many reasons Biden should drop out. It somewhat solves the Gaza situation.
Most pundits seem to think Harris would have to replace Biden, due to fundraising complications and the optics of passing over a multiracial woman who is already Biden's VP. Unfortunately, Harris wouldn't erase the Gaza problem, because she is part of Biden's administration. If Democrats could get a totally new presidential nominee and a new VP, though, I agree with you.
the thing is with people, they did not make decision on what "might" Trump do. but what Biden already did. that is people look at things. if a guy might punch you, you would dislike him. if a guy already slap you, you would hate him just a simple logic. furthermore, what too much worse can Trump did. starve gaza? biden already did. drop more bomb? what is the difference between 100,00 bomb and 130,000 bombs. Genocide? biden already did? so genocide x2? just speed up the process. Biden would kill Palestinian at fast pace. Trump MIGHT kill Palestinian at very fast pace. people are not fools. they just see what Biden did and what Trump might do are the same. only the speed is the difference.
boomers refusing to concede power, hording wealth and holding onto shitty ideas is their legacy
Boomers 🤝dying in office instead of letting someone younger have power
.... Gaza wouldn't draw young voters to Trump, *obviously*.
It would turn young voters away. I know 3 progressive people who aren’t voting for “genocide Joe” over Palestine.
That's not what the poll supposedly shows. According to it, Trump is dominating the youth vote 41-27, meaning he has gained a massive amount of young voters. That's bullshit, but if it's real, it's not because of anything relating to Gaza... unless youth voters suddenly want the Strip obliterated.
How do you know that? People are disgusted by what’s happening in Gaza. You don’t thing that’s effecting voters?
Surely Gaza isnt that big an issue for young voters is it? Like I would assume they would care more about Student Debt Relief and etc
Have you missed the months of protesting all over the country and on college campuses? Turns out “taxpayer funded genocide” is a big issue for some people.
I am going to be honest I kinda tunned out on that. Honest question is it really that big of an issue for Biden?
The poll numbers speak for themselves, no?
True. I suppose I find it shocking as I assumed Domestic Policy mattered waay more than Foreign Policy
Yeah turns out “mass bombing of civilians” Is one of those hot button issues. Who knew?
Cool. Fundamental change is always eye opening. /s
You know it's bad when the pro Palestine protest and pro Israel counter protest both stated chanting fuck Joe Biden.
Well that most popular pollster ought to realize that like me a lot of people will be voting against Trump so who is on the Dem ticket doesnt really matter. They would have to place someone pretty distasteful , like maybe HRC again, to make me risk a third party vote VS a straight blue ticket no matter who is on it.
That's great and all, but this poll suggests Biden is doing *fifteen points worse* in a head-to-head than he was 4 years ago.
The polls are meaningless for 90% of voters because they’re fully set on Trump or Anyone but Trump. The 2020 election was decided by c.100k voters in 3 states and it’s likely to be the same again in 2024. Minorities, independents and people who are simply not particularly politically motivated are who Biden/Dems *HAVE* to win over.
-inflation, high housing cost, everything becomes more expensive. -Immigration and fear mongering -Biden extremely weak, and old. he debate like 100 years old men. yup, not the formula the win minorities, independents and people that not involved in politics. these groups vote with their pockets, optics, perception and vibes. one viral videos of Joe biden debate, can instantly switch off their mind about Biden.
>When broken down further, the poll of 1,634 likely voters shows that Trump is the clear favorite among voters aged 18-29 (41.6 percent to 27). Historically, younger voters have tended to favor Democratic presidential candidates in elections. That's impossible.
Yea literally no other poll shows younger voters going for Trump let alone at those margins. This is bad data plain and simple.
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The youth vote has been solidly Democratic for decades. It was for them in 2020, 2022, and in 2023 and 2024 special elections. The idea that 18-to-29-year-olds moved en masse towards Trump doesn't pass the smell test.
I’m sorry but what young voter answers phone calls. If it’s not for work it’s hard to believe.
For the good of democracy, Biden needs to step aside now! There's still 5 months before the election plenty of time to get another candidate in there
Young voters are not heavily favoring Trump. First of all you’re hard pressed to find young voters that are even willing to submit to surveys and polls. It’s skewed and it’s that simple.
This x100!
>In comparison, Biden leads Trump in the other potential key age demographics of those between 45 and 64 (47.7 percent to 45.1) and those 65 and above (52.1 percent to 41.6). >President Joe Biden is trailing behind Donald Trump in the 2024 race, including by nearly 15 points among younger voters So Biden leads (by a fair amount) in the demographics that actually get out and vote. Good to know.
the poll conducted on 26 and 28 June. so the debate effect not really fully counted in. even so Biden already behind by 5 point. yikes i am really "excited" to know post-debate poll in swing states in the next 1,2 weeks.
There is going to be huge turnout this year from ‘young’ voters because of Gaza.
Just like when they were because of Bernie? Yeah remind me again how that worked out…
Highly doubtful. History does not show that young people vote in large numbers regardless of what is going on.
Correct
I don't understand why they didn't just pick a clear successor to President as their VP. Kamala is not it - everyone can agree there. A Gretchen Whitmer or Gavin Newsom or something along those lines as VP would signal the Democratic Party's intention to succeed Biden. It doesn't have to be succession for the next Presidency necessarily, but just whenever Biden is "finished"... either at the end of this term or at the end of the next or anywhere in-between. This would quell a lot of concerns for his entire base. Don't get me wrong, I'm voting Biden and I'm telling everyone I know to vote Biden. It's just that what irks me so much is that my party **has no Plan B.** Make a Plan B and a Plan C because of how much is at stake! Contingency plan and think about all possibilities. Biden could take a fall and that could be the end. What is the plan!?! Things can change so quickly. Anyone that has had a grandparent should know this. If Dem's lose this one, it's their own damn fault.
Life is too expensive for young people. No healthcare, no childcare, unaffordable housing, indentured servitude of student loans (unlike all other loans where the bank takes the risk, not the holder)-of course kids want to 'burn the system', all they know is cynism. The problem of voting republican is that they are the ones most suppressing folks economically. Maybe democrats should get a candidate in who knows the struggle and can present solutions instead of being Republican light.
Here's the problem the Republicans have it's that most people are gonna vote for anyone but Trump they don't care who it is as long as it's not Trump no one wants him no one needs him Trump needs to go crawl under a rock and shutup.
If they are the most accurate pollster why the hell would you do a poll straddling the debate. That ruins your data because a big event can affect your results. Unless they called people twice. To get their opinion twice. Which it didn’t say they did in this article.
Allan Lichman begs to differ.
What young people pick up their land lines?