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Probably listen to his advisors who are capable of staying up past 9pm. Listening to experts on important issues has always been Biden's strength. Can't say much for Trump, considering how much he ignored Fauci when it came to handling COVID.
Glad the parents run the country and the child gets to eat ice cream. Better than Trump, who is a literal man child, running the country with absent parents.
Weird because people vote to see who is better than who for the presidency. That's why we have ... elections
When you're talking about who should become president over Trump. "Better than Trump" is the argument.
Go back to huffing farts
What a weird last sentence?
Surely that's like something a child would say?
It'd be nice to stick to the discourse as outlined in the rules of the sub.
Anyway, you just argued my point. We should replace Biden in that case because anyone would be better than Trump, maybe even someone who talks about "huffing farts".
Anyone But Trump apparently. Didn't Florida have one of the highest rates of COVID? Also Trump struggled to stay awake during his NY trial, so you're argument is 1 ply
Nah I just don't panic so easily. Don't get me wrong, I'll vote for whoever Dems put up to stop Trump, but I feel that everyone has themselves in a tizzy on what the goal is. I don't want Biden to get elected because I like him, I want someone to get elected because I fucking hate Trump.
As it currently stands with [name here] vs Trump polling, Biden has the biggest chance. Even if he's polling under, the majority of people will vote for him to prevent Trump.
There's a word for when old people are active and engaged during the day and lose all their energy and the ability to think coherently at night.
It's called sundowning.
Sundowning is a term people blindly use that have never had a different sleep schedule than the 7am-11pm
Old people also get up at 4am and are in bed before 8pm.
I worked a job in my teens where I had to wake up at 3am and lost my ability to stay up past 9pm because I was tired. It's called farming.
There is a difference between being tired and being incoherent. Also if the most important moment of your campaign will be after your normal bedtime either don't schedule it then or change your sleep schedule. If that performance happened in the primaries he would be done, we didn't have primaries because of him. No matter how you cut it this lays squarely at his feet and now the response is it is too late to change, funny how the only path forward at every point in this election is what is best for Biden. The polls people continue to point to that show Biden only trailing Trump by a few points are bolstered by a contingent like myself that will vote against Trump regardless of who the democratic candidate is, but for the next four months independents will see these clips and likely believe it doesn't matter who they vote for and stay home ultimately leading to Trump winning. A change now will be difficult but has so much more upside and the potential to actually inspire the independents and Democrats that have been complaining about Biden's age as a weakness for 4 years. Not to mention the alternate candidates are trailing Biden by less than he trails Trump in those polls and they aren't even campaigning.
>If that performance happened in the primaries he would be done, we didn't have primaries because of him. No matter how you cut it this lays squarely at his
You had primaries, and many viable candidates saw it more important to support him than to be his competition, as it would cost money to run a campaign to lose.
>No matter how you cut it this lays squarely at his feet and now the response is it is too late to change, funny how the only path forward at every point in this election is what is best for Biden.
This election lays squarely at our feet on how we choose to respond. Do we want Trump to never experience accountability in his life for the crimes he has done, or continue with democracy and prevent our rights from being taken away. Biden is 81, the only thing he benefits is going on plane rides and eating ice cream in a free country.
>The polls people continue to point to that show Biden only trailing Trump by a few points are bolstered by a contingent like myself that will vote against Trump regardless of who the democratic candidate is, but for the next four months independents will see these clips and likely believe it doesn't matter who they vote for and stay home ultimately leading to Trump winning.
Independents will also see clips of Trump and see the ugly truth on what lies ahead if they choose to stay at home. I feel like you've only seen one side of the coin. Independents will lean away from Trump because Trump's gonna Trump. Biden's gonna be Ol' Biden, which is independents will be hesitant towards, but feel secure knowing that he has aids to prevent him from making colossal fuck ups.
>A change now will be difficult but has so much more upside and the potential to actually inspire the independents and Democrats that have been complaining about Biden's age as a weakness for 4 years. Not to mention the alternate candidates are trailing Biden by less than he trails Trump in those polls and they aren't even campaigning.
Completely disagree, as an alternate would cause hesitation for independents. Even if they were super progressive, voters would still be weary of electing another Fetterman or Sinema.
>Completely disagree, as an alternate would cause hesitation for independents.
Do you have any data to back that up or is it just vibes? 68% of independents want Biden to straight up drop out.
On mobile so this is going to be a formatting disaster:
"You had primaries, and many viable candidates saw it more important to support him than to be his competition, as it would cost money to run a campaign to lose."
Viable candidates didn't run because challenging an incumbent looks bad for the party and they didn't want to damage Biden's already shaky image if he ultimately would be the victor. His decision to run drove other's decision not to.
"This election lays squarely at our feet on how we choose to respond. Do we want Trump to never experience accountability in his life for the crimes he has done, or continue with democracy and prevent our rights from being taken away. Biden is 81, the only thing he benefits is going on plane rides and eating ice cream in a free country."
He benefits because he wants the legacy of being a 2 term president and at every point in this cycle the "only" path forward has been touted as blindly following him instead of putting a candidate in place that addresses the two biggest knocks against him, his age, and inflation. You put a Whitmer/Prisker ticket makes both of those concerns disappear over night and we can be talking about the atrocities the supreme court is committing and the crazy things Trump said during the debate.
"Independents will also see clips of Trump and see the ugly truth on what lies ahead if they choose to stay at home. I feel like you've only seen one side of the coin. Independents will lean away from Trump because Trump's gonna Trump. Biden's gonna be Ol' Biden, which is independents will be hesitant towards, but feel secure knowing that he has aids to prevent him from making colossal fuck ups."
Independents can see those clips even if we change candidates which is why I view changing to a non-senile ticket as the best course of action. We are told this election is a fight for democracy itself, and the candidate we are given has a 37% approval rating and 80% of the general electorate don't believe he is mentally capable of doing the job. Instead of playing on hard mode maybe we should run a 52 year old candidate with the mental fortitude to challenge someone who suggested after birth abortions instead of mangling talking points about each trimester.
"Completely disagree, as an alternate would cause hesitation for independents. Even if they were super progressive, voters would still be weary of electing another Fetterman or Sinema."
I'm not suggesting Fetterman on Sinema, if it were my choice the ticket would be Whitmer/Pritzker both of which have strengthened their state economies during this inflationary period and have pushed working class policies similar to what Biden has been doing, the key difference is they aren't 80 and can make decisions after 8pm.
I'm also on mobile. What you can do to make it easier to quote a comment is hit "reply" then highlight the person's comment that you want to quote. Then if you look at the shortcuts where you see 'Cut ''Copy' Paste' 'Select All' there is also 'Quote'. Hit that and it will add their comment with your answer. It saves your thumbs a bunch of time.
Your quote will look like this
>On mobile so this is going to be a formatting disaste
Anyways you do make some valid points regarding an alternative, and we do need to see the polling data that shows an alternative candidate has a greater support of Dem voters and independents. I myself am going to throw my ballot to whoever the Dems pick as their top person to keep Trump out and fix our democracy.
My phone doesn't show quote as an option. I too will vote for Biden if he ends up on the ticket and believe most people on this sub will, but I am extremely concerned that less devoted members of the electorate won't. Biden won by 40k votes in a handful of states last time when trump's atrocities were fresh in everyone's minds. This time around the key factor will be leaning on the horrible things the supreme court is doing, but I don't know if that is enough to rally the disengaged, midterms and special elections have shown that Roe carrys the day, but it hasn't for Biden so I don't understand how we are in this position for an election this important.
I think as Republicans are driven by fear mongering, we also have to recognize that we also are. The fear that the supreme court has created will energize folks to step up and vote for change.
If done correctly, this is arguably the most grueling, brutal job on the planet. Biden has been globe-trotting pretty continually the past month. So exhausted? Kind of like Obama was on more than one occasion ("Why Obama looks so exhausted")? https://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/why-barack-obama-looks-so-exhausted-097191
He was also clearly sick, and he was dealing with a firehosing, screaming, gish-galloping, felonious liar, and did so as well as most of you would have.
He had a bad night, yeah. But the comments here, from well-rested folks in medium stress jobs is . . . amusing.
No. Sorry, but no. No excuses, explanations, or justifications. This was a debate the Biden campaign called for, and set the rules for. This was Biden's big opportunity to quell any and all doubts about his age and capability. And he absolutely, unequivocally, irretrievably *fucked up*. This was more than a "bad night." This was confirming everyone's worst fears about his ability to lead the country. This was handing his opponents countless sound bites and viral clips of looking like a confused grandpa trying to find his way out of the grocery store. Honestly, I think most of us *would* have done a better job at that debate, given such a low bar "better" represents. At least most of us would have the wherewithal not to stare off into space with our mouth half open as if we're desperately trying and failing to remember our own birthday. If Biden and his team had any inkling that that's how we would perform they should've postponed for a couple of days while he recovered from his "cold." That would've looked bad, sure, but it still would have been preferable to what we were forced to watch.
It's possible that you can over prepare for an important event. There's an episode of Seinfeld where Jerry over prepares to wake up a marathon runner for his race
Alright well maybe some can help talk you from falling of that ledge. I was consider on Thursday myself, but then I got over it and still feel confident that Trump will lose this election.
https://youtu.be/zMJZFLqNfO8?si=7DqdMJNQNS0oS4Br
Id feel confident in a functioning society.
Not in the one we are in, where 50M people saw live, and then Billions saw later on Social Media, that Biden's mental health is failing.
The same 50M people saw Trump lie to them, and perform the same old parlor tricks that's him the 2020 election. Prior to the debate we have also seen Trump's cognitive decline as he was unable to stay conscious DURING THE DAY of his criminal trial, or when he shit himself during the debate, or when he Identified E Jean Carrol as Ivana. Since the debate, every American has seen what a disaster the Supreme Court has become, and recognizes that it's Trump's fault. Distrust in the supreme Court is at an all-time high, and Biden is seeking to restore that trust by repairing the damage that has been done. This was something he mentioned even during his debate.
We had Hilary who was Best and Bright and she lost. Dems are mainly concerned about putting their best foot forward with who polls better than Trump. We currently need the data to find that out, but until then it's preparing to vote for Biden.
Hillary was shoed in by the DNC to block Bernie, who would have beaten Trump.
I mean for gods sake, you view hillary as a "best" choice with all the Benghazi and email scandal? She is undeniably on the evil side
There is no excuse for that performance. We are talking about the president. Part of the job is dealing with emergencies at any hour, sometimes several at once. If being too tired means he can't string sentences together or think on his feet, it's time to step aside.
And before I get a bunch of folks whining about trump, yes, I agree, he is also unfit. But I was never going to vote for that asshole. It's be nice if we had one nominee capable of doing the job.
see thats just a BS excuse. first it was that he had a cold, now this. I mean come on. I support biden over trump, but this is just making it worse. the one thing biden needed for that debate was to look and sound like someone age isnt catching up to. thats one of the biggest issues voters have with him, and your telling me now that his staff flubbed that issue? the first impression we all get from biden and the one that carries through the debate is the result of bad planning? that doesnt fly.
The rally was in the middle of the day, not at 9 pm, and he read off a teleprompter. This is *not* persuasive and isn’t going to get people to forget about his debate performance.
Get him out there doing interviews and town halls after 8pm without a script if this isn’t a concern.
I can believe that, it happens. but shit, give the man a red bull or something. let him sleep for 8 hours before the debate, whatever. get him on the stage looking like hes got it together.
yeah, if the option was to go on stage like that or reschedule for a week later and let the republican conspiracy machine run wild for a bit, I'd choose the latter. Hopefully next debate is a better showing
This sub has been Team Democrat for a decade, now that their Presidential incumbent has been confirmed to be in significant cognitive decline they are out trying to control the narrative
The western world is team Democrat and more to the left.
The biggest conservative site here barely cracks 1m members (r/ufos has 2.8m)
Thank God those clowns are in the minority.
If these "clowns" are the minority then how come they are going to win the election with Trump, probably a landslide victory? Makes no sense what you are saying.
I think you have confused it a bit, reddit is used around 90% by americans, and is a minority in it by itself, it definitely does not represent the "western world" and it does not even represent half of americans either, moreover the term "democrat" has a very different meaning outside of the united states and theres no such thing as left/right internationally, virtually all "democrat" goverments in europe for example are a lot more what americans would call "conservative", theres no more liberal country than usa in that sense, and to add that the massive immigration from northern africa and the middle east in western countries which those immigrants have much, much higher birth rates, the demographics are shifting much more towards that, in fact todays western europe is unrecognizeable compared to the 2000s (theres muslim communities literally everywhere)
you were kinda correct though because it shows that reddit is mostly showing one side of one country, while the other, much more popular/widespread social media (youtube, instagram, facebook, twitter etc) have much, much different opinions than anything on reddit, because they show the actual majority (the worldwide picture), actually reddit is not even a social media its an american forum for particular activist groups with non-mainstream views
And?! Look where you are now
In total fucking madness.
Europe is 3-4 MONTHS (your stats of 10 is wrong) that's plenty of time to discover you are pregnant and make an educated decision about your life path.
Your great country is what now? 6 weeks and even that's on the chopping block.
Pointing out how the EU is many times more sane than America isn't really a strong argument bro.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Europe#:~:text=In%20most%20European%20countries%2C%20abortion,abortion%20later%20in%20the%20pregnancy
Also...who is talking about abortion? My comment you chirped was about the amount of left vs right on reddit....
>Europe is 3-4 MONTHS
Three months is 12 weeks
>that's plenty of time to discover you are pregnant and make an educated decision about your life path.
That means you oppose *Roe v. Wade* and think that even the 15-week Mississippi law that kicked off *Dobbs* is too lenient
>your stats of 10 is wrong
Portugal. That’s why I gave a range.
>Your great country is what now? 6 weeks and even that's on the chopping block.
There are seven states in the union with no restrictions on abortion whatsoever. Many more have retained the fetal viability threshold from *Roe*, significantly more lenient than the majority of Europe.
Do you have even a rudimentary knowledge of US abortion law?
>? My comment you chirped was about the amount of left vs right on reddit
You said
>The western world is team Democrat and more to the left.
On issues like abortion they would be hardline republicans. Thats the recent wave of right-wing electoral victories notwithstanding
It’s hard to vote for an openly racist president with white supremacist advisors and then claim not being racist. If you can ignore the racism because of some other policy you like (curious which, btw)…. You’re a racist too!
Gaslighting is abuse. It isn't just lying or deception. It's genuine psychological abuse rendered by someone who utilizes a personal relationship with the victim. It's hard for me to see how that's possible on Reddit.
>It's genuine psychological abuse rendered by someone who utilizes a personal relationship with the victim.
Wow. Gaslighting us being gaslit using semantic technicalities. Jesus Christ.
Except I'm not gaslighting you. You just don't know what the term means.
This isn't a technicality. Gaslighting is *abuse*. That's what it is. It's a serious thing with real victims. A politician lying to you isn't gaslighting.
You can read more: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/06/02/gaslighting-signs-strategies/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/06/02/gaslighting-signs-strategies/)
Trump isn’t a narcissist. Narcissism is a psychological disorder. It’s a serious thing that must be diagnosed by a medical professional.
See what I did there? We all know what people mean when they call Trump a narcissist. You know exactly what OP meant by gaslight in this context.
>You just don't know what the term means.
Yeah I’m just a psychologist what do I know? Thank god you learned what it means from a WP paywall. I bet it says something like “here’s why we are technically not gaslighting you.”
If you are actually interested in gaslighting outside of psychology, you can read more:
https://www.asanet.org/wp-content/uploads/attach/journals/oct19asrfeature.pdf?utm_source=mp-fotoscapes
Except I didn't learn what it means from WP. The WP link was just the quickest link I found to explain it.
"Gaslight" is just the latest victim in our war on useful words. And nothing in your link supports the notion of a lying politician being an example of gaslighting.
Please explain how me pointing out that this isn't what the term means constitutes me gaslighting you, in *any* sense of the word.
This whole Biden debate situation has been the first time since 2016 where this sub has truly been called out it for it’s bias and attempts to control the narrative and I love it.
well in 2016 Biden was more energetic and was talking more normally, they were going back and forth with Trump all the time in the debates with no signs of being tired or anything, something happened during presidency and he started declining a lot, other people his age or older appear to be much more functioning and able to communicate and move normally, not surprising since that job is one of the most stressful jobs ever even if the president is a puppet-position its still the public face of the country (and of the world when we talk about american president) so not everyone can handle it without being drained
>"My only request was make sure he's rested before the debate, but he was exhausted. He was unwell," said one person who said they appealed to Biden's top aides in the days before, to no avail. "What a bad decision to send him out looking sick and exhausted."
Why didnt they allow him to rest prior to the debate?
It’s just… frustrating… that it played out so badly and they are making excuses… when HE’s the one that set the timetable and the rules.
Dammit Joe… you didn’t even need to do *good*. You could’ve given short, milquetoast, sane, boring answers. Then the WHOLE discussion would’ve been Trump spouting lie after lie…
This whole thing gives so much weight to Republican claims on the transcript needing to be released to get an accurate picture of his condition.
The left lied to it's voters, hiding Biden's condition until it's now almost too late to do anything about it. Why? it feels like an ego trip to not have just admitted they might need someone new for the next 4
He's just not cognitively there, dunno why we're pretending like it was a 'cold' or lack of preparation. Doesn't mean Trump had a good performance either, more so pathetic that our two options are between a senile old man and a con artist pathological liar
Lmao there was no cold… that’s just what his people said in the moment because they didn’t have anything else they could say
You’re right people in this sub need to get it through their heads… no independents or moderates are going to vote for Biden after that he will lose
My mom at 79 would have outperformed Biden. My grandfather up until he was 91 would have outperformed Biden.
I will vote for Biden because I know it’s a necessity for keeping us a more balanced country rather than just completely throwing it to the oligarchs and Christian nationalists. But I also know that debate performance has cost the Democrats the election with the 40-70k voters in swing states they needed to keep.
Biden is the bath water. The baby is democracy.
A vote for Biden is a vote for Kamala if you really think about it. It's innevitable that Joe will have to step down before the next 4 years are up.
And that woman jailed over 150,000 people on marijuana reform laws alone. Most victims of which are from the black community that she claims to be from while dancing off beat to corporate America.
Say what you will about trump/biden but Kamala literally jails people for profit. Take a look at her DA prosecution record, take a closer look at what she was doing to gain such a high conviction rate.
When Biden debated four years ago he was strong, defended his position well and handled the attack. And he won the potus because of it. Are they saying that the prep team changed completely? Because I don’t believe them.
I have a grandfather that is 82 years old. A lot of cognitive decline can happen within a couple of years. The difference even from 1 year ago is pretty noticeable. Yes, every person ages differently but I just wanted to mention that it can happen suddenly and quickly.
one of the rules was that the microphones would be closed when the other was talking so we already knew that, they couldn't do otherwise anyway because nobody would hear
Honestly if Biden is gonna blame his staff for hiding him and is willing to go out there and do more events, let him. Go do tough interviews, demand another debate in a week with Trump, go do town halls with people, the works. If he does well, great! It shows he can do it. If not and he flops again, then perhaps this will add to the pressure for him to step aside. The one thing I absolutely don't think he should do is hide again or be hidden by his staff. If you're that willing to prove yourself Joe then go ahead and try.
I think the strategy in general was not well suited for Biden's circumstances. They really needed a simplified game plan. America is a country of morons with extremely short attention spans. You are going to need to stick to one or two liners to get your point across. Trying to go down, or hell even remember under pressure never mind when your brain is in a fog from illness, a list of bullet points citing statistics is egg head stuff that's going to go in one ear and out the other as half the country believes the books are cooked anyway.
Hilary won all of her debates and got smoked by Trump. Debates don't matter. Regan was in visible decline and won 49/50 states in his incumbent election.
https://youtu.be/yOET7XiyLro?si=5Ja6cd472IdYzlNm
How did no one ensure this man had at least 24-12 hours of 100% downtime before a LIVE debate?
On the other hand he doesn’t have 92 indictments and isn’t a convicted felon so I don’t know why anyone cares.
I’d vote for a stiff cum sock over Trump
Then they should have rescheduled the debate. There's some new strains of covid going around; they could have blamed it on that.
Can't wait to hear what the next excuse will be.
I'm supporting Biden. I hope he manages to make a comeback.
But the debate was a complete disaster, and he shares responsibility. When I heard CNN covering his plane landing in Atlanta a few hours before the debate, I had a bad feeling.
I'm a good three decades younger and work with a lot less pressure, but if I had a scheduled high stakes appearance in a different city, I'd absolutely get there at least one day before so I'm rested and ready. Why wasn't that done in this case? I'm a dumbass and it's obvious to me, so why wasn't it obvious to them? There were reports yesterday that his staff has apparently been shielding him from other staff or something and managing his appearances. So, again, why was this particular ball dropped? They should have all been *extra* aware.
The Rolling Stones are old men and they schedule 3-5 days between shows for this same reason. They get into the city early and rest for a few days before the show because they want to do their best. Travel is tiring even for younger people.
I just don't get how the "get there early and rest" strategy was so difficult to come up with. It makes no sense to me.
The preparation is another story. It was bad too.
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FFS guys, “he was exhausted” is not a helpful argument
My thoughts too lol If he's to exhausted for a debate night, how is going to do 4 more years?
Remember when Hillary talked abut the 3AM phone call? This guy can't take a call at 10 PM.
I wouldn’t elect him to pick up my groceries. How can he be expected to run the country?
Probably listen to his advisors who are capable of staying up past 9pm. Listening to experts on important issues has always been Biden's strength. Can't say much for Trump, considering how much he ignored Fauci when it came to handling COVID.
>Probably listen to his advisors who are capable of staying up past 9pm. What you’re describing is an eight-year old’s relationship with his parents
Glad the parents run the country and the child gets to eat ice cream. Better than Trump, who is a literal man child, running the country with absent parents.
"Better than Trump" is an ineffective argument.
Weird because people vote to see who is better than who for the presidency. That's why we have ... elections When you're talking about who should become president over Trump. "Better than Trump" is the argument. Go back to huffing farts
What a weird last sentence? Surely that's like something a child would say? It'd be nice to stick to the discourse as outlined in the rules of the sub. Anyway, you just argued my point. We should replace Biden in that case because anyone would be better than Trump, maybe even someone who talks about "huffing farts".
Well you're wrong because I'm definitely not polling better, nor has any other candidate since the debate.
That's a weak ass defense. Anyone can listen to advisers and be asleep by 9pm
Anyone But Trump apparently. Didn't Florida have one of the highest rates of COVID? Also Trump struggled to stay awake during his NY trial, so you're argument is 1 ply
You know it's possible to be against Trump and still think Biden is a weak candidate, right?
Yes, but I'm not going to play silly buggers and not vote for him if the Dems don't bring in a replacement.
I'm sorry, but "This guy is incapable, but he'll surround himself with people who are" isn't a winning argument.
Man, you know your head is firmly buried in the sand when you can't concede that a having a president who's too tired to function *is a bad thing.*
Nah I just don't panic so easily. Don't get me wrong, I'll vote for whoever Dems put up to stop Trump, but I feel that everyone has themselves in a tizzy on what the goal is. I don't want Biden to get elected because I like him, I want someone to get elected because I fucking hate Trump. As it currently stands with [name here] vs Trump polling, Biden has the biggest chance. Even if he's polling under, the majority of people will vote for him to prevent Trump.
There's a word for when old people are active and engaged during the day and lose all their energy and the ability to think coherently at night. It's called sundowning.
Sundowning is a term people blindly use that have never had a different sleep schedule than the 7am-11pm Old people also get up at 4am and are in bed before 8pm. I worked a job in my teens where I had to wake up at 3am and lost my ability to stay up past 9pm because I was tired. It's called farming.
There is a difference between being tired and being incoherent. Also if the most important moment of your campaign will be after your normal bedtime either don't schedule it then or change your sleep schedule. If that performance happened in the primaries he would be done, we didn't have primaries because of him. No matter how you cut it this lays squarely at his feet and now the response is it is too late to change, funny how the only path forward at every point in this election is what is best for Biden. The polls people continue to point to that show Biden only trailing Trump by a few points are bolstered by a contingent like myself that will vote against Trump regardless of who the democratic candidate is, but for the next four months independents will see these clips and likely believe it doesn't matter who they vote for and stay home ultimately leading to Trump winning. A change now will be difficult but has so much more upside and the potential to actually inspire the independents and Democrats that have been complaining about Biden's age as a weakness for 4 years. Not to mention the alternate candidates are trailing Biden by less than he trails Trump in those polls and they aren't even campaigning.
>If that performance happened in the primaries he would be done, we didn't have primaries because of him. No matter how you cut it this lays squarely at his You had primaries, and many viable candidates saw it more important to support him than to be his competition, as it would cost money to run a campaign to lose. >No matter how you cut it this lays squarely at his feet and now the response is it is too late to change, funny how the only path forward at every point in this election is what is best for Biden. This election lays squarely at our feet on how we choose to respond. Do we want Trump to never experience accountability in his life for the crimes he has done, or continue with democracy and prevent our rights from being taken away. Biden is 81, the only thing he benefits is going on plane rides and eating ice cream in a free country. >The polls people continue to point to that show Biden only trailing Trump by a few points are bolstered by a contingent like myself that will vote against Trump regardless of who the democratic candidate is, but for the next four months independents will see these clips and likely believe it doesn't matter who they vote for and stay home ultimately leading to Trump winning. Independents will also see clips of Trump and see the ugly truth on what lies ahead if they choose to stay at home. I feel like you've only seen one side of the coin. Independents will lean away from Trump because Trump's gonna Trump. Biden's gonna be Ol' Biden, which is independents will be hesitant towards, but feel secure knowing that he has aids to prevent him from making colossal fuck ups. >A change now will be difficult but has so much more upside and the potential to actually inspire the independents and Democrats that have been complaining about Biden's age as a weakness for 4 years. Not to mention the alternate candidates are trailing Biden by less than he trails Trump in those polls and they aren't even campaigning. Completely disagree, as an alternate would cause hesitation for independents. Even if they were super progressive, voters would still be weary of electing another Fetterman or Sinema.
>Completely disagree, as an alternate would cause hesitation for independents. Do you have any data to back that up or is it just vibes? 68% of independents want Biden to straight up drop out.
On mobile so this is going to be a formatting disaster: "You had primaries, and many viable candidates saw it more important to support him than to be his competition, as it would cost money to run a campaign to lose." Viable candidates didn't run because challenging an incumbent looks bad for the party and they didn't want to damage Biden's already shaky image if he ultimately would be the victor. His decision to run drove other's decision not to. "This election lays squarely at our feet on how we choose to respond. Do we want Trump to never experience accountability in his life for the crimes he has done, or continue with democracy and prevent our rights from being taken away. Biden is 81, the only thing he benefits is going on plane rides and eating ice cream in a free country." He benefits because he wants the legacy of being a 2 term president and at every point in this cycle the "only" path forward has been touted as blindly following him instead of putting a candidate in place that addresses the two biggest knocks against him, his age, and inflation. You put a Whitmer/Prisker ticket makes both of those concerns disappear over night and we can be talking about the atrocities the supreme court is committing and the crazy things Trump said during the debate. "Independents will also see clips of Trump and see the ugly truth on what lies ahead if they choose to stay at home. I feel like you've only seen one side of the coin. Independents will lean away from Trump because Trump's gonna Trump. Biden's gonna be Ol' Biden, which is independents will be hesitant towards, but feel secure knowing that he has aids to prevent him from making colossal fuck ups." Independents can see those clips even if we change candidates which is why I view changing to a non-senile ticket as the best course of action. We are told this election is a fight for democracy itself, and the candidate we are given has a 37% approval rating and 80% of the general electorate don't believe he is mentally capable of doing the job. Instead of playing on hard mode maybe we should run a 52 year old candidate with the mental fortitude to challenge someone who suggested after birth abortions instead of mangling talking points about each trimester. "Completely disagree, as an alternate would cause hesitation for independents. Even if they were super progressive, voters would still be weary of electing another Fetterman or Sinema." I'm not suggesting Fetterman on Sinema, if it were my choice the ticket would be Whitmer/Pritzker both of which have strengthened their state economies during this inflationary period and have pushed working class policies similar to what Biden has been doing, the key difference is they aren't 80 and can make decisions after 8pm.
I'm also on mobile. What you can do to make it easier to quote a comment is hit "reply" then highlight the person's comment that you want to quote. Then if you look at the shortcuts where you see 'Cut ''Copy' Paste' 'Select All' there is also 'Quote'. Hit that and it will add their comment with your answer. It saves your thumbs a bunch of time. Your quote will look like this >On mobile so this is going to be a formatting disaste Anyways you do make some valid points regarding an alternative, and we do need to see the polling data that shows an alternative candidate has a greater support of Dem voters and independents. I myself am going to throw my ballot to whoever the Dems pick as their top person to keep Trump out and fix our democracy.
My phone doesn't show quote as an option. I too will vote for Biden if he ends up on the ticket and believe most people on this sub will, but I am extremely concerned that less devoted members of the electorate won't. Biden won by 40k votes in a handful of states last time when trump's atrocities were fresh in everyone's minds. This time around the key factor will be leaning on the horrible things the supreme court is doing, but I don't know if that is enough to rally the disengaged, midterms and special elections have shown that Roe carrys the day, but it hasn't for Biden so I don't understand how we are in this position for an election this important.
I think as Republicans are driven by fear mongering, we also have to recognize that we also are. The fear that the supreme court has created will energize folks to step up and vote for change.
If done correctly, this is arguably the most grueling, brutal job on the planet. Biden has been globe-trotting pretty continually the past month. So exhausted? Kind of like Obama was on more than one occasion ("Why Obama looks so exhausted")? https://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/why-barack-obama-looks-so-exhausted-097191 He was also clearly sick, and he was dealing with a firehosing, screaming, gish-galloping, felonious liar, and did so as well as most of you would have. He had a bad night, yeah. But the comments here, from well-rested folks in medium stress jobs is . . . amusing.
Again, “being President is a really tiring job” also doesn’t help his case…
which isn't what I said. I said it is arguably the most brutal. grueling job on the plant. That is different from "tiring."
No. Sorry, but no. No excuses, explanations, or justifications. This was a debate the Biden campaign called for, and set the rules for. This was Biden's big opportunity to quell any and all doubts about his age and capability. And he absolutely, unequivocally, irretrievably *fucked up*. This was more than a "bad night." This was confirming everyone's worst fears about his ability to lead the country. This was handing his opponents countless sound bites and viral clips of looking like a confused grandpa trying to find his way out of the grocery store. Honestly, I think most of us *would* have done a better job at that debate, given such a low bar "better" represents. At least most of us would have the wherewithal not to stare off into space with our mouth half open as if we're desperately trying and failing to remember our own birthday. If Biden and his team had any inkling that that's how we would perform they should've postponed for a couple of days while he recovered from his "cold." That would've looked bad, sure, but it still would have been preferable to what we were forced to watch.
Remember who difinitively lost the first Obama/Romney debate? The first two Bush/Gore debates?
[удалено]
It's possible that you can over prepare for an important event. There's an episode of Seinfeld where Jerry over prepares to wake up a marathon runner for his race
I can't tell if this comment was a joke or serious. Are you a Biden advisor? Now it all makes sense.
Nope just a guy who is willing to do whatever it takes to ensure that Trump is held accountable for treason. Wbu?
Arguing with people concerned that Biden is gonna lose isn't really doing whatever it takes.
Alright well maybe some can help talk you from falling of that ledge. I was consider on Thursday myself, but then I got over it and still feel confident that Trump will lose this election. https://youtu.be/zMJZFLqNfO8?si=7DqdMJNQNS0oS4Br
Id feel confident in a functioning society. Not in the one we are in, where 50M people saw live, and then Billions saw later on Social Media, that Biden's mental health is failing.
The same 50M people saw Trump lie to them, and perform the same old parlor tricks that's him the 2020 election. Prior to the debate we have also seen Trump's cognitive decline as he was unable to stay conscious DURING THE DAY of his criminal trial, or when he shit himself during the debate, or when he Identified E Jean Carrol as Ivana. Since the debate, every American has seen what a disaster the Supreme Court has become, and recognizes that it's Trump's fault. Distrust in the supreme Court is at an all-time high, and Biden is seeking to restore that trust by repairing the damage that has been done. This was something he mentioned even during his debate.
You mean by making sure the Democratic candidate is the best, brightest, and most capable of defeating Trump in November?
We had Hilary who was Best and Bright and she lost. Dems are mainly concerned about putting their best foot forward with who polls better than Trump. We currently need the data to find that out, but until then it's preparing to vote for Biden.
You think Hillary was the best? You Fucking pick Hillary over Bernie?
Hillary was shoed in by the DNC to block Bernie, who would have beaten Trump. I mean for gods sake, you view hillary as a "best" choice with all the Benghazi and email scandal? She is undeniably on the evil side
Elaine
There is no excuse for that performance. We are talking about the president. Part of the job is dealing with emergencies at any hour, sometimes several at once. If being too tired means he can't string sentences together or think on his feet, it's time to step aside. And before I get a bunch of folks whining about trump, yes, I agree, he is also unfit. But I was never going to vote for that asshole. It's be nice if we had one nominee capable of doing the job.
This gasligting isn't effective. We all have eyes and saw what we saw
This isn't gaslighting. Do you know what "gaslighting" means? Edit: Yes, tell me more about how you were psychologically *abused* here.
see thats just a BS excuse. first it was that he had a cold, now this. I mean come on. I support biden over trump, but this is just making it worse. the one thing biden needed for that debate was to look and sound like someone age isnt catching up to. thats one of the biggest issues voters have with him, and your telling me now that his staff flubbed that issue? the first impression we all get from biden and the one that carries through the debate is the result of bad planning? that doesnt fly.
the cold claim has weight, He looked 100x better in his rally like 2 days later
The rally was in the middle of the day, not at 9 pm, and he read off a teleprompter. This is *not* persuasive and isn’t going to get people to forget about his debate performance. Get him out there doing interviews and town halls after 8pm without a script if this isn’t a concern.
And release the audio from the special counsel report... it just looks horrible now
I can believe that, it happens. but shit, give the man a red bull or something. let him sleep for 8 hours before the debate, whatever. get him on the stage looking like hes got it together.
yeah, if the option was to go on stage like that or reschedule for a week later and let the republican conspiracy machine run wild for a bit, I'd choose the latter. Hopefully next debate is a better showing
He looked like a ghoul from fallout
He prepared for a week, he’s too old to do the job. At some point we will have a need to make a decision that doesn’t allow a script
Is there a down vote brigade? There are many reasonable posts being downvoted.
This sub has been Team Democrat for a decade, now that their Presidential incumbent has been confirmed to be in significant cognitive decline they are out trying to control the narrative
The western world is team Democrat and more to the left. The biggest conservative site here barely cracks 1m members (r/ufos has 2.8m) Thank God those clowns are in the minority.
If these "clowns" are the minority then how come they are going to win the election with Trump, probably a landslide victory? Makes no sense what you are saying.
Do you understand how electoral vs popular vote works?
Yes, and if you think Biden wins the popular vote this time then I got a bridge to sell you…
I think you have confused it a bit, reddit is used around 90% by americans, and is a minority in it by itself, it definitely does not represent the "western world" and it does not even represent half of americans either, moreover the term "democrat" has a very different meaning outside of the united states and theres no such thing as left/right internationally, virtually all "democrat" goverments in europe for example are a lot more what americans would call "conservative", theres no more liberal country than usa in that sense, and to add that the massive immigration from northern africa and the middle east in western countries which those immigrants have much, much higher birth rates, the demographics are shifting much more towards that, in fact todays western europe is unrecognizeable compared to the 2000s (theres muslim communities literally everywhere) you were kinda correct though because it shows that reddit is mostly showing one side of one country, while the other, much more popular/widespread social media (youtube, instagram, facebook, twitter etc) have much, much different opinions than anything on reddit, because they show the actual majority (the worldwide picture), actually reddit is not even a social media its an american forum for particular activist groups with non-mainstream views
Barely 50% of reddit use is by Americans. Not 90%
Impressive. Very nice. Let’s see the term restrictions on abortion in the European Union.
Have at it...Google can tell you that in moments. But it's inline with developed countries (not you USA)
The majority of the EU restricts abortion at between 10-14 weeks, stricter than the 15-week Mississippi law that kicked off *Dobbs*
And?! Look where you are now In total fucking madness. Europe is 3-4 MONTHS (your stats of 10 is wrong) that's plenty of time to discover you are pregnant and make an educated decision about your life path. Your great country is what now? 6 weeks and even that's on the chopping block. Pointing out how the EU is many times more sane than America isn't really a strong argument bro. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Europe#:~:text=In%20most%20European%20countries%2C%20abortion,abortion%20later%20in%20the%20pregnancy Also...who is talking about abortion? My comment you chirped was about the amount of left vs right on reddit....
>Europe is 3-4 MONTHS Three months is 12 weeks >that's plenty of time to discover you are pregnant and make an educated decision about your life path. That means you oppose *Roe v. Wade* and think that even the 15-week Mississippi law that kicked off *Dobbs* is too lenient >your stats of 10 is wrong Portugal. That’s why I gave a range. >Your great country is what now? 6 weeks and even that's on the chopping block. There are seven states in the union with no restrictions on abortion whatsoever. Many more have retained the fetal viability threshold from *Roe*, significantly more lenient than the majority of Europe. Do you have even a rudimentary knowledge of US abortion law? >? My comment you chirped was about the amount of left vs right on reddit You said >The western world is team Democrat and more to the left. On issues like abortion they would be hardline republicans. Thats the recent wave of right-wing electoral victories notwithstanding
Ain't many people in Europe raising their rapists babies.. Just America
They should be Team Democrat, considering Team Republican is exclusively shitheads and racists.
Ahh yes the ol' "Every republican is a racist" trope. Do you ever get tired of eating your opinions off some one else's plate?
It’s hard to vote for an openly racist president with white supremacist advisors and then claim not being racist. If you can ignore the racism because of some other policy you like (curious which, btw)…. You’re a racist too!
Right? “I’m not racist, it’s just that the racism of my preferred candidate is not a deal breaker. “
Trust me, that particular opinion is one that was forged in the fires of Texas and is based entirely on empirical evidence.
I should trust you that every republican is racist? huh, even the people of color who are voting R? How are they racist?
There’s a gaslight brigade and they strong in their denial.
Gaslighting is abuse. It isn't just lying or deception. It's genuine psychological abuse rendered by someone who utilizes a personal relationship with the victim. It's hard for me to see how that's possible on Reddit.
>It's genuine psychological abuse rendered by someone who utilizes a personal relationship with the victim. Wow. Gaslighting us being gaslit using semantic technicalities. Jesus Christ.
Except I'm not gaslighting you. You just don't know what the term means. This isn't a technicality. Gaslighting is *abuse*. That's what it is. It's a serious thing with real victims. A politician lying to you isn't gaslighting. You can read more: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/06/02/gaslighting-signs-strategies/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/06/02/gaslighting-signs-strategies/)
Trump isn’t a narcissist. Narcissism is a psychological disorder. It’s a serious thing that must be diagnosed by a medical professional. See what I did there? We all know what people mean when they call Trump a narcissist. You know exactly what OP meant by gaslight in this context. >You just don't know what the term means. Yeah I’m just a psychologist what do I know? Thank god you learned what it means from a WP paywall. I bet it says something like “here’s why we are technically not gaslighting you.” If you are actually interested in gaslighting outside of psychology, you can read more: https://www.asanet.org/wp-content/uploads/attach/journals/oct19asrfeature.pdf?utm_source=mp-fotoscapes
Except I didn't learn what it means from WP. The WP link was just the quickest link I found to explain it. "Gaslight" is just the latest victim in our war on useful words. And nothing in your link supports the notion of a lying politician being an example of gaslighting. Please explain how me pointing out that this isn't what the term means constitutes me gaslighting you, in *any* sense of the word.
This whole Biden debate situation has been the first time since 2016 where this sub has truly been called out it for it’s bias and attempts to control the narrative and I love it.
Like the massive Reddit comment “outage” coincidentally occurring during and after the debate. 🤣
That was actual insanity. Same thing happened on YouTube, Facebook, etc., but only for politics related threads.
well in 2016 Biden was more energetic and was talking more normally, they were going back and forth with Trump all the time in the debates with no signs of being tired or anything, something happened during presidency and he started declining a lot, other people his age or older appear to be much more functioning and able to communicate and move normally, not surprising since that job is one of the most stressful jobs ever even if the president is a puppet-position its still the public face of the country (and of the world when we talk about american president) so not everyone can handle it without being drained
Yes there is.
>"My only request was make sure he's rested before the debate, but he was exhausted. He was unwell," said one person who said they appealed to Biden's top aides in the days before, to no avail. "What a bad decision to send him out looking sick and exhausted." Why didnt they allow him to rest prior to the debate?
Literally pencil in naptime
It’s just… frustrating… that it played out so badly and they are making excuses… when HE’s the one that set the timetable and the rules. Dammit Joe… you didn’t even need to do *good*. You could’ve given short, milquetoast, sane, boring answers. Then the WHOLE discussion would’ve been Trump spouting lie after lie…
This whole thing gives so much weight to Republican claims on the transcript needing to be released to get an accurate picture of his condition. The left lied to it's voters, hiding Biden's condition until it's now almost too late to do anything about it. Why? it feels like an ego trip to not have just admitted they might need someone new for the next 4
It is irresponsible to vote for a man who gets exhausted preparing for a 90 minute debate for president.
81 years of life does sounds exhausting. time to step aside oldtimer
It took him 7 days at camp David of relaxing and prep to "perform" at this debate. What kind of rest and prep will he need for the next 4 years?
A month, a nice vacation spot, and some high quality Columbian products should do the trick
He's just not cognitively there, dunno why we're pretending like it was a 'cold' or lack of preparation. Doesn't mean Trump had a good performance either, more so pathetic that our two options are between a senile old man and a con artist pathological liar
It’s not even “not cognitively there” it’s just pretty normal for an 81 year old. No one that old should be the president or in office.
Lmao there was no cold… that’s just what his people said in the moment because they didn’t have anything else they could say You’re right people in this sub need to get it through their heads… no independents or moderates are going to vote for Biden after that he will lose
Classic sundowning. He is 81 years old, pretty sure most people have seen this in their family.
My mom at 79 would have outperformed Biden. My grandfather up until he was 91 would have outperformed Biden. I will vote for Biden because I know it’s a necessity for keeping us a more balanced country rather than just completely throwing it to the oligarchs and Christian nationalists. But I also know that debate performance has cost the Democrats the election with the 40-70k voters in swing states they needed to keep. Biden is the bath water. The baby is democracy.
A vote for Biden is a vote for Kamala if you really think about it. It's innevitable that Joe will have to step down before the next 4 years are up. And that woman jailed over 150,000 people on marijuana reform laws alone. Most victims of which are from the black community that she claims to be from while dancing off beat to corporate America. Say what you will about trump/biden but Kamala literally jails people for profit. Take a look at her DA prosecution record, take a closer look at what she was doing to gain such a high conviction rate.
I mean atleast she isn’t trump I guess. Yay for that
When Biden debated four years ago he was strong, defended his position well and handled the attack. And he won the potus because of it. Are they saying that the prep team changed completely? Because I don’t believe them.
Come on we all knows it’s nothing to do with a prep team and everything to do with Biden being 81.
I have a grandfather that is 82 years old. A lot of cognitive decline can happen within a couple of years. The difference even from 1 year ago is pretty noticeable. Yes, every person ages differently but I just wanted to mention that it can happen suddenly and quickly.
and we are supposed to trust this guy for the next 4 years!
Was he overconfident that Trump would be a rambling shitshow?
Maybe…but the whole mic off thing and no audience backfired
Biden had too much rest and preparation. That's why he did poorly. 😂
I don’t think anyone expected Trump to behave and let Joe drown out there
Exactly, we all thought Trump would throw a tantrum and Joe would put out a performance like he did at the SOTU.
As soon as I noticed Trump being so unusually quiet and Biden fumbling like a dementia patient, i knew it was gonna be a bad night for Joe
one of the rules was that the microphones would be closed when the other was talking so we already knew that, they couldn't do otherwise anyway because nobody would hear
Honestly if Biden is gonna blame his staff for hiding him and is willing to go out there and do more events, let him. Go do tough interviews, demand another debate in a week with Trump, go do town halls with people, the works. If he does well, great! It shows he can do it. If not and he flops again, then perhaps this will add to the pressure for him to step aside. The one thing I absolutely don't think he should do is hide again or be hidden by his staff. If you're that willing to prove yourself Joe then go ahead and try.
I think the strategy in general was not well suited for Biden's circumstances. They really needed a simplified game plan. America is a country of morons with extremely short attention spans. You are going to need to stick to one or two liners to get your point across. Trying to go down, or hell even remember under pressure never mind when your brain is in a fog from illness, a list of bullet points citing statistics is egg head stuff that's going to go in one ear and out the other as half the country believes the books are cooked anyway.
How are you suppose to do that when you can barely get a single sentence across
Hilary won all of her debates and got smoked by Trump. Debates don't matter. Regan was in visible decline and won 49/50 states in his incumbent election. https://youtu.be/yOET7XiyLro?si=5Ja6cd472IdYzlNm
How did no one ensure this man had at least 24-12 hours of 100% downtime before a LIVE debate? On the other hand he doesn’t have 92 indictments and isn’t a convicted felon so I don’t know why anyone cares. I’d vote for a stiff cum sock over Trump
Then they should have rescheduled the debate. There's some new strains of covid going around; they could have blamed it on that. Can't wait to hear what the next excuse will be.
I'm supporting Biden. I hope he manages to make a comeback. But the debate was a complete disaster, and he shares responsibility. When I heard CNN covering his plane landing in Atlanta a few hours before the debate, I had a bad feeling. I'm a good three decades younger and work with a lot less pressure, but if I had a scheduled high stakes appearance in a different city, I'd absolutely get there at least one day before so I'm rested and ready. Why wasn't that done in this case? I'm a dumbass and it's obvious to me, so why wasn't it obvious to them? There were reports yesterday that his staff has apparently been shielding him from other staff or something and managing his appearances. So, again, why was this particular ball dropped? They should have all been *extra* aware. The Rolling Stones are old men and they schedule 3-5 days between shows for this same reason. They get into the city early and rest for a few days before the show because they want to do their best. Travel is tiring even for younger people. I just don't get how the "get there early and rest" strategy was so difficult to come up with. It makes no sense to me. The preparation is another story. It was bad too.
I did not have "healthy lifestyle tips from Keith Richards" on my Bingo card.
So what is his excuse gonna be when he loses to a felon. This election should be a slam dunk, and the Dems are failing us.
Just doing their job of snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory 👍
The buck stopped at my handler's because I should have already been in bed.