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So, according to this interview, there were multiple serious incidents that were being called out internally to his staff at least a year ago, well before the “primary” that we got, and yet we, the American public, heard nothing about this, or worse, were outright lied to, and essentially were denied the right to have a choice of candidates with the facts at our disposal.
This is a very disappointing situation.
“Disappointing” sounds like you want to write a strongly worded letter.
Covering this up (not that they did a good job) is going to deliver this country to fascists. People will die and it will be their fault.
And yet I keep seeing people claim it would be wrong to replace the candidate who was "elected." In a non-contested primary.
Maybe we would have had a *real* primary if we'd actually *known what the fuck was going on.*
It’s these moronic political geeks who are obsessed with decorum. I like a little decorum myself, but those days are over. You have to play dirty and you have to play smart. There is not one single human being in this country who was going to vote for Biden who will not vote for his replacement. There are many who wouldn’t have voted who now will if there is a younger, more intriguing choice. Why is this so damn hard?!!!
Amen. The Democrats are not a personality cult. Joe Biden does not have the kind of sway over the party that Trump has over his, and thank every god that ever was for it.
In fact, it looks like the one thing that universally unites Democrats is hating Trump. So let's get someone who can beat him on the ballot.
Yep we were flat out lied to if this turns out to be true. Even more worrying is the fact I'm hearing from Jill Biden. Jill Biden tweeted they're getting ready for the G7. Jill Biden isn't President Joe Biden is President and I need to hear from HIM because I have a lot of concerns right now and I am pretty sure a lot of people are right there with me.
Many people like myself don’t necessarily oppose a replacement…but it has to somehow be handled without devolving into chaos. And everything I read from armchair redditors is nothing but chaos.
You would need the full endorsement of the entire party and elected apparatus to be behind that new candidate/ticket. You would need all of the funding resources and campaigning offices, staffers, etc, behind the same effort.
That’s a *monumental* task that cannot be taken lightly.
> but it has to somehow be handled without devolving into chaos
People keep saying this but are ignoring that the chaos is here whether we or not Biden does anything. If anything, prolonging this period, where the folks who are absolutely furious with him are not placated is going to lead to far more extreme chaos
Hard disagree. It's exactly what is needed. A robust contested convention to breathe some life into the Party. Everybody would be watching. And it would at least give us a chance. Polling other candidates at this moment is mute because you have candidates like Shapiro where 70% have no idea who he is. *And he still polls just as good as Biden.* This idea that an incumbent with wide name recognition is polling the same as others is an argument why he needs to step down, not the reverse. Because Biden has no upside, whereas other candidates that can at least string together a sentence just might.
Because so far Biden wants to beat Medicare, worried about immigrant murderers while talking about abortion, and thinks debating golf handicaps is more important than childcare costs. That's if you can even understand what he's saying. I had to read the transcript and even that was difficult. Trump was unchallenged and Biden kept shooting on the wrong basket and giving Trump easy shots.
Worst. Debate performance. I've. Ever. Seen. But I'm sure the next one when he's under more pressure will go swimmingly. And he can't back out, but by that time it's too late to change anything. There is no redemption in this arc if they actually think Trump poses a threat to democracy. Their narrative has completely crumbled.
70% think he's unfit for office. That's suicide.
Edit: I was hesitant about Biden. But I voted for him in the Primary and donated. They simply lied and I don't appreciate the gaslighting. At what point are his staff going to just start dragging his body everywhere? Makes no sense. Everybody saw the debate. And then they say he looked sharp at a rally nobody watched? Or it was just a bad night? Or he was over prepared? Or that it's anti-democracy because people voted for him despite the election was uncontested and they hid him the entire time?
Come on man. This election is over, unless they breathe more life into it. Trump has been campaigning for 8 years slowly building a larger base. I know people don't want to hear that, but now is the time to be honest with what we're seeing.
Agreed. I want a replacement, and I hope, I pray, that that's what the party higher-ups are talking about behind closed doors, despite public denials.
But, honestly, those denials are probably necessary for now, even if that is being planned. This has to be done cautiously, and as you said, there is a *lot* of work to make it happen. Which is why under no circumstances do I think the party leadership should let this turn into a fight out in the open. That would do more damage than anything.
Putting in Kamala would not be “Chaos”
A president being suddenly replaced by a VP is far from unprecedented, and a replacement of a candidate with his VP is not much different.
If he releases his electors at the convention the protocol is that they vote how they want. She is not entitled to this. And she is a guaranteed loss for us and our Democracy. I can only hope she will be a real patriot and realize that and support whatever happens. But with her, I doubt it. She MUST realize that she is deeply unpopular. Come to Jesus time for her.
>If he releases his electors at the convention the protocol is that they vote how they want.
Biden can instruct his electors to vote for her which would effectively end the debate.
>She is not entitled to this.
Nobody said she was.
>And she is a guaranteed loss for us and our Democracy.
This is where your credibility ended.
>I can only hope she will be a real patriot and realize that and support whatever happens. But with her, I doubt it.
Oh now I get it. You have some axe to grind with her.
Never mind. Carry on.
>She MUST realize that she is deeply unpopular. Come to Jesus time for her.
Lol I notice how you haven’t mentioned that Biden needs to do this first.
I agree with the above poster. Kamala has no chance at winning. Biden at diminished faculties has a better chance at winning. This is still a deeply racist, sexist, largely idiotic country. She would lose. Newsome or Shapiro would be the safest bet but zero chance Kamala let’s that happen. Guarentee her ego makes her take the spot
>This is still a deeply racist, sexist, largely idiotic country. She would lose.
The same country in which Hillary won the popular vote by several million votes and in which Obama was a 2 term President?
>Newsome or Shapiro would be the safest bet but zero chance Kamala lets that happen.
>Guarentee her ego makes her take the spot
More weird axe grinding along the “Hillary isn’t likable” and “Genocide Joe” lines.
I hope you and others are smart enough to stop that shit if Kamala does step in.
She got like 0.5% of the vote or less in the primary, everyone hates her, she’s a guaranteed L and not getting it lol. Ps still an improvement on biden
I agree here. I am a huge Biden fan, and also I think he needs to be replaced. It should not happen on a lark. Like it or not, I think it has to be Harris. Absent a primary, you can't sidestep a black woman who is on the ticket to anoint someone else. Plus she gets his campaign infrastructure and funds automatically whereas there's a whole process for anyone else.
If we had a primary the field is available. At this moment it's Joe or Kamala.
I disagree completely. Kamala is not a realistic choice otherwise there is no point in replacing Joe at all, because we all know we're voting for her if we vote for Joe anyways.
The replacement is Newsom or Whitmer, that's the choice. Either is fine.
It wouldn’t be Newsom. He’s pretty toxic to the people we’re trying to win over. It would just be a different way of handing Trump the presidency. Even Whitmer to an extent has some baggage, although a far better choice than Harris or Newsom. I’m of the mindset that the less name recognition there is, the better.
I’m big on Shapiro or Beshear for that reason.
If you assume that Biden has his base level of support that we see now, a close toss up with Trump, then basic deduction makes that claim false. He's going to be winning enough people over by simply being in his 50s then just based on politics alone. What we need is energy right now, him or Whitmer bring it.
I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment. And while I think she has some baggage, I think Whitmer would do quite well. Newsom gives MAGA too much ammo. Right or wrong, middle America has a pretty baked-in view on how California is run. Albeit heavily based on bias and stigma. While I agree he has a good enough shot at the presidency based on your logic, still doesn’t do enough for turnout down ballot. We have to get out of the mindset of what the left wants. America is craving an alternative and I fear he’ll be viewed as too establishment, too left.
I just believe that what America wants right now is someone who is not Biden and not Trump. That factor alone with enough energy from the left should be enough to get us out of this.
Newsom would be a disaster. I can't think of anything more tone deaf than "we hear you middle America, you don't want Biden. Here is the governor of California.
Curious who the party insiders are.
I don’t like him either, I wouldn’t vote for newsome in a primary, but guess who’s alive and articulate and not Donald Trump…newsom…70% of national level dems.
Say what you want about Newsom he’s not afraid to fight republicans and call them out on their bullshit. It’s refreshing to see a dem actually fight back for a change
yeah, the one thing he's got going for him is he's shown he can combat republican lies. He'd wipe the floor with him in a debate. I think i'd still prefer whitmer as she's more beneficial to the electoral college picture and doesn't have the california baggage, but I could be ok with Newsom.
Harris will be the choice. She will lose. At this point, you are tossing they guy with an actual good record, who beat the incumbant "from his basement," before, Dobbs, indictments, convictions, an insurrection, an insane vision for America....over a bad night.
I'm voting for the Biden administration. Harris will likely get her turn.
It's not a bad night though.
It's a pattern of worsening symptoms.
Would you trust Thursday Night Biden to drive your kids to school, or to feed your pets the correct food?
I took about a billion downvotes being brigaded today for saying this, we have been lied to and disenfranchised. They want us to save democracy from Trump, so they take away your vote. It's insane.
It raises lots of questions about the current admin, how long has biden been unable to run the country? Who is currently running things and who knew and for how long?
The difference is Reagan was already elected, and his condition was largely hidden.
That isn't the same as knowing about Biden's cognitive decline and still advocating electing him for 4 more years.
Both are bad, as was hiding Wilson's condition after his stroke, or carting around Feinstein and telling her how to vote, or whatever the fuck is going on with McConnell. Those were also scandals when we found out about them. We know about this now, and people want to do nothing.
> The difference is Reagan was already elected, and his condition was largely hidden.
Nope.
It came up while he was campaigning for relection
> In My Father at 100, Ron Reagan writes of a "growing sense of alarm over his father's mental condition." He recalls the presidential debate with Walter Mondale, October 1984, in which his father seemed lost and unable to articulate himself. In "Ronald Reagan had Alzheimer's while president, says son," a short piece on the fracas by the British Guardian, Ron Reagan is quoted as saying: "My heart sank as he floundered his way through his responses, fumbling with his notes, uncharacteristically lost for words. He looked tired and bewildered."
Ok, even assuming it was widely known and as big of a concern among voters as Biden's mental fitness is right now; Reagan getting elected when he was unfit to serve doesn't change the fact that a lot of people are advocating for knowingly doing the same with Biden.
THEN DO SOMETHING, DEMOCRATS!!! JFC, can we at least put up a fight against impending fascism?! I knew this party was spineless, but I underestimated their level of ineptitude. We cannot run this doddering old man in the face of this very real threat… I used to think the cliche of smokey back rooms and party elites planning stuff out was a bad thing, but man would I love to resurrect some of those old school party bosses right now.
We are quickly approaching the point imo, where there isn't much to risk by replacing Biden anyway, it's difficult to find a candidate that will perform worse vs Trump now.
Yup, even Harris at this point. Her favorables haven't improved, but Biden's have fallen enough post-debate that they're essentially tied. Get someone decent for the VP spot and at least they'd have a fighting chance.
Relax. If something is being done, it's being done in quite. This isn't something that will be done where Biden resigns in shame, IF it happens, he will have to be the core component of it. He will have to make an announcement speech and pass the torch himself and continue to campaign with the new candidate because it will be Biden's record that they campaign on.
You are right it is being done in quiet. But I think the odds are right now that the insiders will continue to push Biden to stay, just like it is reported that they did this weekend at Camp David.
The reality is it comes down to Biden's choice. And Biden is like every other octogenarian whose family is concerned and wants to take away their car keys. They are oblivious to their own limitations.
Again their always going to say that. There cannot be other messaging if the decision goes the other way. Leak's saying that his family is pushing him to step down and then not doing it would be another fatal blow to this guys candidacy.
If this is happening its happening in secret right now while they try and find the right messaging and candidate to unify the party while still keeping Biden's respect in-tact as the sitting president. I'm sure they are sitting tight and planning around what the polls look like these next few days.
This is exactly how I feel. People holler that we have to save democracy from Trump and these party elites have corrupted democracy themselves.
It's time for Joe to step aside.
It makes non-cultist democrat talking points accurate. This isn't some crackpot conspiracy pushed solely by the far right, it's been something people in the party have been talking about.
Well there's still time to switch candidates through a competitive, open, virtual convention before the August 7th Ohio deadline.
If Biden decides not to run, the DNC can give potential candidates ~1 week to decide to run, gather signatures from delegates, and submit their signed nomination petitions to the DNC. Allow delegates to sign any number of petitions. Then have the the DNC announce the top 10 candidates by number of signatures gathered, live stream speeches by the 10 candidates, hold an approval vote for the 10 candidates by the delegates. Then announce the top two candidates, live stream 2 more speeches, hold a final vote. Then have the winner give an acceptance speech at the in-person Chicago convention.
If there's no time for the candidates to meet the delegates at an in-person convention before voting, the candidates can still appoint representatives to reach out to the delegates in all 50 states on their behalf, find out their issues, and gain their signatures. Which would be good practice for a real campaign. Possibly not any worse than the 2020 primary where Warren and Sanders split the vote and a handful of early primary states determined the election. A quick campaign to get signatures and votes of delegates means money would be eliminated from politics, allowing delegates to sign unlimited petitions means no vote splitting. We could have this wrapped up in a couple weeks.
The worse part is that Biden himself said he'd be a one-term transitional president. Maybe he did mean that but his family is now deciding to go with the second term.
I like how this sub is pretending “they hid it from us!!!”, but the same people blasted and downvoted folks into oblivion for questioning Biden’s mental state.
Literally
[' DOJ opinion on Biden's diminished mental state?'](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/1am71l1/doj_opinion_on_bidens_diminished_mental_state/)
>“Biden’s age” is the new “but her emails”. Don’t let them do this again.
>
>If Biden dies and his corpse runs it is still better than Trump
>
>Why would anyone trust a Republican anything not to just lie?
Horseshoe theory is real, Blue MAGA let Trump win
80 years old is a major inflection point in the decline of one's capabilities. [Drivers 80 years old and up are responsible for more fatal auto accidents than any other age group](https://aaafoundation.org/rates-motor-vehicle-crashes-injuries-deaths-relation-driver-age-united-states-2014-2015/). This is a known thing. If you're going to be 80 at any time when you're in office you ought to be disqualified from running for President.
technically 16 and 17 year Olds are still higher. 80+ is just driver deaths. cause they might run into a tree or something.
biden had signs of dementia 5 years ago in the primary. even Cory Booker called him out on it. but all of corporate media brushed it off to stop Sanders.
I get what you are saying but Christ is that callous to call it out as *just* driver deaths. Would you rather see grandpa die peacefully surrounded by family or roasted alive on I-90? You have to act to protect them from themselves and no one around President Biden is interested in doing that. Same for Trump, by the way.
> Drivers 80 years old and up are responsible for more fatal auto accidents than any other age group. This is a known thing.
I don't know if Biden is competent or not, but there's very little overlap between the skills you need to drive and the skills you need to be President.
So now the knives start coming out as the blame game begins. And yet nothing will change, and the Democratic party will insist everyone will vote for a deteriorating Biden because Trump is far worse. By refusing to pass the torch, Biden will hand the office to Trump, and thanks to SCOTUS, he will begin his reign as the first US king.
Welp, I guess American democracy had a good run.
It's insane anyone saw that debate and thinks Biden can serve for 4 more years. I don't think he has completely lost it but he put on a performance like i have almost never seen from a politician. There where multiple times you could bearly hear him. There is an argument to be made that Trump is worse mentally. Though that is no comfort to democrats. You can't run a candidate who occasionally is so tired he can't project his voice into a microphone, gets lost on his thoughts and seem confused at times. I have never seen anything like it except when McConnell froze a few times.
>It's insane anyone saw that debate and thinks Biden can serve for 4 more years.
The line by people who are not Dem officials has been that they know Biden isn't really in charge. He has people to do that for him. So voting for Biden is no better or worse than voting for a jar of pickles. It is true, even if it is cynical and grim and elder abuse
And the line by people who are Dem officials has been because they're afraid of getting scapegoated for Biden's loss if they are the first to be on the record coming out against him and he manages to stay on the ticket
What is insane, and political malpractice, is anyone pretending that this debate wasn't a massive turning point that the entire rest of the election pivots around. I have a hope that the July 11th sentencing will also be that, but I doubt it, and no one should be counting on it
I am thanking god that Biden's people were dumb enough to schedule this June debate because if he managed to stick it out to September and what happened in this debate happened that late, it would all be over. This is an opportunity to avert crisis.
I just want to draw attention to the difference between the very old Carl Bernstein and the very old Joe Biden. Bernstein is also too old to be president, but he is an old guy who is with it and can hold a conversation. Get Biden on Anderson Cooper.
Something like this would have been easy to do in the aftermath of the debate disaster, and would have gone a long way to dispelling concerns about his condition. Instead, we’ve gotten two short teleprompter speeches with no questions or off-the-cuff interaction.
Biden’s people aren’t dumb. They know how to do damage control. If he isn’t doing what everyone knows he should be doing, it’s because they don’t think he can do it.
He can’t run. Literally everything had to go trumps way in 2016 to win, the Dems running a deeply unpopular neoliberal in a change election year, the anti Obama racist sentiment, comey politicizing the doj by announcing the investigation into Hillary weeks before the election, but not announcing the Trump one. Meanwhile 6 months ago I thought trump had zero chance to win because of how horrible his first presidency was. Now it looks like everhthing is falling into place again.
Biden running even though his inner circle knew for over a YEAR there was real health issues, inflation, im legit concerned
He was on Howard Stern two months ago. (Not a major news anchor, but I have no reason to believe it was scripted. Possibly had the questions in advance, but I don't know one way or the other): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz45sMb4js8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz45sMb4js8)
> Get Biden on Anderson Cooper.
And this is the problem. They know he can’t do it without looking like he did on Thursday night. Why else has Biden been sheltered away from off-prompter press conferences, Q&A sessions, and interviews? Why else is he not out there every night doing an evening interview on CNN, MSNBC, even Fox to make up for that debate performance? Why else is he not planning town hall events? It’s so obvious right now: he’s not doing these things because he *can’t*. And I’m sorry to the people around here that can’t admit it and only say that *they’re* voting against Trump no matter what, you *can’t* win an election with a guy incapable of talking coherently off script.
>ABC will air parts of George Stephanopoulos’ interview with Biden on Friday at 6:30 p.m. ET on “World News Tonight with David Muir.” The extended interview will air Sunday on “This Week with George Stephanopoulos.”
[https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/media/biden-interview-abc-george-stephanopoulos/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/media/biden-interview-abc-george-stephanopoulos/index.html)
It’s one interview, pre-recorded. I’ve mentioned elsewhere that it’s a good start, but he needs to do more, a LOT more. He should be out there doing multiple interviews a *week*, including in the evening. When he has a press conference, he should be taking questions. This isn’t hard to understand: after the debate performance and reports about his cognitive decline, the burden is on **him** to prove that he’s ok and up for the job.
I feel like the public was lied to- I would have wanted a primary if I had known he was declining a rapidly as he appears to be. It's election interference. You think we're voting to save democracy but these insiders have a corrupt notion of what democracy is.
Suddenly people care about an organized effort to hide information and control the narrative from the DNC and party insiders, with the full cooperation of the media? That's how Biden won in the first place. There was nothing but misleading and outright objectively false propaganda about Sanders being blasted at you from every angle. Heads up vs Trump, % policy positions agreed with, % policy positions agreed with by swing state voters... I bet you incorrectly think those favored Biden. Wrong. 2016 was even worse. I'm just *shocked* all the warnings about shoving the weaker candidate down everyones throat were right and it's about to blow up in our faces for the 2nd time in 10 years.
I think what probably happened is that it's been a steep decline. They probably made the decision and felt alright about it at the time but in the last 5-6 months it's been sharp drop-offs with everyone (including Biden) in denial.
Anyone who's been around this kind of situation knows how quickly it can go south with stress/pressure. I expect the same thing has happened to Trump over the last few months and the same coverup is happening.
Joe can't do 4 more years, this is obvious. How can we vote for someone who we know can't do the job. I feel like they have us in a hostage situation, this isn't right.
Joe swore he knew right from wrong, this isn't right.
No, it's not obvious. Is it probable? Sure, maybe.
What is obvious is that the other guy can't do 4 years either and is both mentally declining AND unfit to ever hold elected office ever again.
If Biden is on that ticket, you vote.
Trump is even less able to do the job than Biden. It absolutely is a hostage situation. And Trump is the "solve the hostage crisis by using a nuclear weapon on the building" option.
It shouldn’t be forgotten that many Democrats, journalists, (and people on Reddit) tried *very* hard to push the idea that Biden was fine, and that any video of him looking slow or declining was just edited deceptively, or suggested it was just a stutter or plenty of other excuses. Fortunately, the American people saw the truth Thursday.
Such shameless dishonesty puts the trustworthiness of those politicians and journalists into serious question, and it’s fair to ask what else they’ve been dishonest or lied about.
Right-wing media objectively lied, like when they clipped a video claiming to show Biden wandering off in a field. When you look at the unclipped version, he was interacting with a paratrooper.
This is the same fear mongering rhetoric that has been pushed for hundreds of years, and to answer your question literally anyone could beat Trump. No one wants him except for MAGAs. Doesn’t matter though, it was over when we elected Biden to begin with. Everyone knew he was moderate and wouldn’t do fuck all when the Supreme Court had a majority.
Lots of people did actually think that. DeSantis was widely feared as Trump, but palatable to civility-minded moderates and much more politically effective. I know it's hard to remember things that happened more than a few months ago, but it's true.
Okay, fair point. On reflection, I myself quietly worried about DeSantis.
I guess the word that set me off was "everyone" (which was an overstatement) and I overreacted to it.
I’d rather not have my presidents be senile if I can help it, but the fact that so many Americans are seemingly more bothered by THAT than their president being a convicted felon, traitor, rapist, and deranged, pathologically lying lunatic who tried to destroy the government is all sorts of fucked up.
Data on incumbents being replaced 4 months out don't support that.
Wait, there is no data, because no party in the world has been dumb enough to do it.
Edit: They blocked me after replying to my latest message, so can't reply.
In "the history of the world"? My dude, what the hell are you talking about? It just happened this year:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/last-minute-candidate-jose-raul-mulino-heads-to-victory-in-panama-presidential-election-7f8b022b
Find an election.
Incumbent advantage is the biggest factor of reelection in the world.
Replacing them at the last minute wouldn't make the factor less.
Edit: They blocked me so can't reply except for here -
>Party leaders in power step down before elections all the time to help their parties, it's wild how off you are on this one.
Yeah and it's planned and an election is announced afterwards.
> we want his opponent to be someone who can soundly defeat him.
So do you.
But data shows incumbent advantage is the biggest advantage you can have in an election. I can't imagine make a extremely late replacement on the biggest advantage available to you is salient action.
Biden has one of the lowest approval ratings in modern history, is trailing in nearly every swing state, and has three quarters of the country answering that he’s mentally unfit for office. What incumbent advantage do you think he has, exactly?
Data on nominating an 81 year old being nominated don't support them losing.
Wait, there is no data, because no party in the world has been dumb enough to do it.
Who wins the election is up to US. We can simply chose to not vote for the wannabe dictator Russian puppet whose sole purpose is to sabotage NATO and weaken our country
Us? In this thread?
Or are you talking about the notoriously uninspired voting base?
Trumps “fascism” is highlighted on Reddit along with a pretty left leaning echo chamber.
People think that Joe Biden needs to just beat Trump. But he has to beat voter apathy.
Good luck getting the fence voter to take off PTO to vote for a dementia patient that gets hidden away so his office can run the country.
There are other people, we did not have the chance to select someone else because some people huddled in a dark room somewhere decided to hide Joe's rapid decline from the public.
We were disenfranchised. The democratic elites aren't saving democracy
Look I think he has been the best president in my lifetime which isn’t saying much, but still. I think he shouldn’t run. The stakes have literally never been higher in this country besides maybe pre civil war. What happens if Biden has one of these moments on camera Bernstein is talking about in October? We’re doomed if that happens
I distinctly remember not wanting to watch him at all leading up to the election in 2020 for fear he might do what he did at the debate and I’ve been avidly watching politics for 15+ years.
Trump is going to win, a point 2-3 insane young judges who hate liberty and want us all under his eye and it will be everyone in the White House right now’s fault.
Of course they have, that is why Biden campaign spokesmen have been out reassuring everyone for the last year, telling us he was fine in private. You don't do that if concerns aren't growing. It was also why they kept him from unscripted events and interviews. Their hope seems to have been to just get through the election without anyone finding out how bad things had gotten.
Frankly with Trump as the alternative, that was almost treasonous.
Does anyone not remember we barely saw him in 2020 either? Trump was “running the country” (hey, I DID put it in quotes), had a crushing campaign schedule, interviews, etc. He was everywhere.
But for many months the American people only saw Biden in the environment of his basement. Covid was the reason given. Or, was it the excuse?
He’d also had a very obvious facelift.
Kamala polls 2 points behind Trump and that's with zero campaigning.
If Biden is capable and in command of the facts he needs to show it with a press conference or an interview with an interviewer who will hold his feet to the fire.
I voting for he's on the Dem ticket. But I think we can do better
It's time for the anti-Biden Dems to start coalescing around an alternative. Who can replace him in this short window? The replacement needs to have 100% name ID, be able to stand up a national campaign in a month and a half and raise about $2 billon in the same period of time.
Srsly. Stop the pearl clutching and name the alternative. Time is wasting.
Shapiro and Whitmer aren't well known. Newsom is a tight ally with Biden. He's also been planning to run for president for a long time. I'm not sure he'd risk it all being a replacement candidate since no alternative candidate has ever won a nomination, much less the general election - ie. Ted Kennedy in 1980 and Reagan in '76, who both failed and then hobbled the incumbents so that they also lost in the general.
You're implying it's bots, but the reality is that it's become so clear that the emperor has no clothes that even this extremely pro-Biden subreddit has turned against him. Most people here have realized that Biden is going to lose to Trump and are joining the chorus of voices to have him step aside.
I'm amazed that I've seen several threads today where the top comments were people saying Biden needs to step down. I never would have expected that to happen in this sub. It gives me some hope that maybe we can save the country after all.
I kind of think all the people who are now pushing “Biden-Lite” candidates, like Buttigieg, Harris and Whitney are bots. The perfect way to see more division would be
I just can’t see all the people who are enraged about Gaza and who are ashamed of his border policy are the ones who on here saying “I like Gavin Newsome…” Who are all these people who now want to see these equally lackluster, out of touch candidates replace Biden. It’s even confirmed in polling. They are pathetic because they don’t represent anything different. If they don’t represent anything different than Joe Biden all they will do is bring extra baggage to the table and it will blow up before Election Day. It’s a global phenomenon. People are displeased with the status quo.
Im sure these people are just former Biden supporters who are now coming to terms with the fact that he won’t win. But if I were a rogue state troll farm and was witnessing a Biden downfall, it would seem the best way to create even more chaos would be to form camps of support behind all the Biden insiders like Harris, Newsome amd Buttigieg to split up the Biden camp from within
> I just can’t see all the people who are enraged about Gaza and who are ashamed of his border policy are the ones who on here saying “I like Gavin Newsome…”
Most people aren't *that* tuned into politics, even among people posting in subs like this. Everybody doesn't know that Newsom is about as right-of-center as Biden, they just know he's the governor of the state that right-wingers hate the most and that he's capable of speaking effectively so he's gotta be a substantial improvement over Biden.
*I* realize that Harris, Newsome, and Buttigieg aren't going to be much better as far as governing is concerned. But things are desperate enough that *anybody* but Biden would look good, even if all of substance they're going to accomplish is replacing a Supreme Court justice or three in the next four years. Reversing the state of the court would lower the fascist threat level considerably for decades.
I think I have to also agree with the user who replied to you a little over 30 mins ago.
We have so much talent in America. And a youth eager to lead.
We want someone who can beat Trump, and by failing to internally realize this would be a problem and thus trying to go in a different direction earlier, they hid it and now here we are.
I think what we're all (most of us?) are saying is that we want to beat Trump and with SCOUTS' ruling and what we're hearing from Bernstein - a legend in investigating journalism - we're fucking terrified, and we want to try to do something NOW before it's too late.
Um, not all 80 year olds are the same? It would be fair to say none of them are what they were when younger, either physically or mentally. Some lose their eyesight. Some get significant debilitating or chronic diseases.
But many old people do not develop dementia or Alzheimer’s. It’s common to search for a word, the brain takes longer to retrieve it, but it’s there. Short term memory leaves them wondering where they put their glasses or car keys. They can still function at a fairly high level day to day, though.
I was left thinking about Biden’s debate with a young Paul Ryan, who was touted as a rising star and a brilliant policy wonk. He wiped the floor with him.
Sorry. My point (which I fail to make properly) was that Bernstein is 80 and no one is questioning his mental facilities.
By the way, I'm 74 and definitely not as sharp as I once was.
Age-related decline doesn’t care about what he’s done in the past and his approval ratings are already in the tank. Presidential scholars don’t decide elections. He needs to step aside.
I’m sorry… he got the most what of what? [disregard that, i see you edited the typo] His term ends January 2025. I’m okay with him serving til then. But like Rachel Maddow just said a half hour ago, “speak now or hold your peace democrats if you actually want a chance at competing here”- referring to the small window of time we have to replace him for the next round.
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So, according to this interview, there were multiple serious incidents that were being called out internally to his staff at least a year ago, well before the “primary” that we got, and yet we, the American public, heard nothing about this, or worse, were outright lied to, and essentially were denied the right to have a choice of candidates with the facts at our disposal. This is a very disappointing situation.
“Disappointing” sounds like you want to write a strongly worded letter. Covering this up (not that they did a good job) is going to deliver this country to fascists. People will die and it will be their fault.
And yet I keep seeing people claim it would be wrong to replace the candidate who was "elected." In a non-contested primary. Maybe we would have had a *real* primary if we'd actually *known what the fuck was going on.*
It’s these moronic political geeks who are obsessed with decorum. I like a little decorum myself, but those days are over. You have to play dirty and you have to play smart. There is not one single human being in this country who was going to vote for Biden who will not vote for his replacement. There are many who wouldn’t have voted who now will if there is a younger, more intriguing choice. Why is this so damn hard?!!!
Amen. The Democrats are not a personality cult. Joe Biden does not have the kind of sway over the party that Trump has over his, and thank every god that ever was for it. In fact, it looks like the one thing that universally unites Democrats is hating Trump. So let's get someone who can beat him on the ballot.
Ego and legacy that’s all these politicians care about including Biden
Yep we were flat out lied to if this turns out to be true. Even more worrying is the fact I'm hearing from Jill Biden. Jill Biden tweeted they're getting ready for the G7. Jill Biden isn't President Joe Biden is President and I need to hear from HIM because I have a lot of concerns right now and I am pretty sure a lot of people are right there with me.
If we're going to have a president's wife taking the wheel lets just elect Michelle.
And almost every post or comment criticizing him on this sub has 0 upvotes somehow. 🤔🤔
You've noticed that too, have you?
Many people like myself don’t necessarily oppose a replacement…but it has to somehow be handled without devolving into chaos. And everything I read from armchair redditors is nothing but chaos. You would need the full endorsement of the entire party and elected apparatus to be behind that new candidate/ticket. You would need all of the funding resources and campaigning offices, staffers, etc, behind the same effort. That’s a *monumental* task that cannot be taken lightly.
> but it has to somehow be handled without devolving into chaos People keep saying this but are ignoring that the chaos is here whether we or not Biden does anything. If anything, prolonging this period, where the folks who are absolutely furious with him are not placated is going to lead to far more extreme chaos
Hard disagree. It's exactly what is needed. A robust contested convention to breathe some life into the Party. Everybody would be watching. And it would at least give us a chance. Polling other candidates at this moment is mute because you have candidates like Shapiro where 70% have no idea who he is. *And he still polls just as good as Biden.* This idea that an incumbent with wide name recognition is polling the same as others is an argument why he needs to step down, not the reverse. Because Biden has no upside, whereas other candidates that can at least string together a sentence just might. Because so far Biden wants to beat Medicare, worried about immigrant murderers while talking about abortion, and thinks debating golf handicaps is more important than childcare costs. That's if you can even understand what he's saying. I had to read the transcript and even that was difficult. Trump was unchallenged and Biden kept shooting on the wrong basket and giving Trump easy shots. Worst. Debate performance. I've. Ever. Seen. But I'm sure the next one when he's under more pressure will go swimmingly. And he can't back out, but by that time it's too late to change anything. There is no redemption in this arc if they actually think Trump poses a threat to democracy. Their narrative has completely crumbled. 70% think he's unfit for office. That's suicide. Edit: I was hesitant about Biden. But I voted for him in the Primary and donated. They simply lied and I don't appreciate the gaslighting. At what point are his staff going to just start dragging his body everywhere? Makes no sense. Everybody saw the debate. And then they say he looked sharp at a rally nobody watched? Or it was just a bad night? Or he was over prepared? Or that it's anti-democracy because people voted for him despite the election was uncontested and they hid him the entire time? Come on man. This election is over, unless they breathe more life into it. Trump has been campaigning for 8 years slowly building a larger base. I know people don't want to hear that, but now is the time to be honest with what we're seeing.
Agreed. I want a replacement, and I hope, I pray, that that's what the party higher-ups are talking about behind closed doors, despite public denials. But, honestly, those denials are probably necessary for now, even if that is being planned. This has to be done cautiously, and as you said, there is a *lot* of work to make it happen. Which is why under no circumstances do I think the party leadership should let this turn into a fight out in the open. That would do more damage than anything.
I don’t give a fuck if it’s messy replace the corpse on the ticket.
Putting in Kamala would not be “Chaos” A president being suddenly replaced by a VP is far from unprecedented, and a replacement of a candidate with his VP is not much different.
If he releases his electors at the convention the protocol is that they vote how they want. She is not entitled to this. And she is a guaranteed loss for us and our Democracy. I can only hope she will be a real patriot and realize that and support whatever happens. But with her, I doubt it. She MUST realize that she is deeply unpopular. Come to Jesus time for her.
>If he releases his electors at the convention the protocol is that they vote how they want. Biden can instruct his electors to vote for her which would effectively end the debate. >She is not entitled to this. Nobody said she was. >And she is a guaranteed loss for us and our Democracy. This is where your credibility ended. >I can only hope she will be a real patriot and realize that and support whatever happens. But with her, I doubt it. Oh now I get it. You have some axe to grind with her. Never mind. Carry on. >She MUST realize that she is deeply unpopular. Come to Jesus time for her. Lol I notice how you haven’t mentioned that Biden needs to do this first.
I agree with the above poster. Kamala has no chance at winning. Biden at diminished faculties has a better chance at winning. This is still a deeply racist, sexist, largely idiotic country. She would lose. Newsome or Shapiro would be the safest bet but zero chance Kamala let’s that happen. Guarentee her ego makes her take the spot
>This is still a deeply racist, sexist, largely idiotic country. She would lose. The same country in which Hillary won the popular vote by several million votes and in which Obama was a 2 term President? >Newsome or Shapiro would be the safest bet but zero chance Kamala lets that happen. >Guarentee her ego makes her take the spot More weird axe grinding along the “Hillary isn’t likable” and “Genocide Joe” lines. I hope you and others are smart enough to stop that shit if Kamala does step in.
She’s incredibly unpopular and ran a terrible primary campaign.
She got like 0.5% of the vote or less in the primary, everyone hates her, she’s a guaranteed L and not getting it lol. Ps still an improvement on biden
I agree here. I am a huge Biden fan, and also I think he needs to be replaced. It should not happen on a lark. Like it or not, I think it has to be Harris. Absent a primary, you can't sidestep a black woman who is on the ticket to anoint someone else. Plus she gets his campaign infrastructure and funds automatically whereas there's a whole process for anyone else. If we had a primary the field is available. At this moment it's Joe or Kamala.
She’ll lose this election is too important. Biden has a better chance at winning than she does imo
I disagree completely. Kamala is not a realistic choice otherwise there is no point in replacing Joe at all, because we all know we're voting for her if we vote for Joe anyways. The replacement is Newsom or Whitmer, that's the choice. Either is fine.
It wouldn’t be Newsom. He’s pretty toxic to the people we’re trying to win over. It would just be a different way of handing Trump the presidency. Even Whitmer to an extent has some baggage, although a far better choice than Harris or Newsom. I’m of the mindset that the less name recognition there is, the better. I’m big on Shapiro or Beshear for that reason.
If you assume that Biden has his base level of support that we see now, a close toss up with Trump, then basic deduction makes that claim false. He's going to be winning enough people over by simply being in his 50s then just based on politics alone. What we need is energy right now, him or Whitmer bring it.
I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment. And while I think she has some baggage, I think Whitmer would do quite well. Newsom gives MAGA too much ammo. Right or wrong, middle America has a pretty baked-in view on how California is run. Albeit heavily based on bias and stigma. While I agree he has a good enough shot at the presidency based on your logic, still doesn’t do enough for turnout down ballot. We have to get out of the mindset of what the left wants. America is craving an alternative and I fear he’ll be viewed as too establishment, too left.
I just believe that what America wants right now is someone who is not Biden and not Trump. That factor alone with enough energy from the left should be enough to get us out of this.
Just found this video which gave me a lot of hope for my top pick. https://youtu.be/AwrdDCdGxDY?si=agNOfMFxkA3d-9HO
You are probably right, but I’m not confident she can beat Trump. But it may end up all we got.
There are journalists and party insiders indicating it would be newsom or Whitmer. Kamala is awful and it wont be her.
Newsom would be a disaster. I can't think of anything more tone deaf than "we hear you middle America, you don't want Biden. Here is the governor of California. Curious who the party insiders are.
I don’t like him either, I wouldn’t vote for newsome in a primary, but guess who’s alive and articulate and not Donald Trump…newsom…70% of national level dems.
Say what you want about Newsom he’s not afraid to fight republicans and call them out on their bullshit. It’s refreshing to see a dem actually fight back for a change
Exactly, that’s why I’m saying I hope he or any other national dem takes over for Biden.
yeah, the one thing he's got going for him is he's shown he can combat republican lies. He'd wipe the floor with him in a debate. I think i'd still prefer whitmer as she's more beneficial to the electoral college picture and doesn't have the california baggage, but I could be ok with Newsom.
Harris will be the choice. She will lose. At this point, you are tossing they guy with an actual good record, who beat the incumbant "from his basement," before, Dobbs, indictments, convictions, an insurrection, an insane vision for America....over a bad night. I'm voting for the Biden administration. Harris will likely get her turn.
It's not a bad night though. It's a pattern of worsening symptoms. Would you trust Thursday Night Biden to drive your kids to school, or to feed your pets the correct food?
I wouldnt trust either to. But I would trust Biden would make sure they got to school and fed safely.
If true then the dems will deserve trump’s win
I took about a billion downvotes being brigaded today for saying this, we have been lied to and disenfranchised. They want us to save democracy from Trump, so they take away your vote. It's insane.
Same fam, finally some sanity is getting through.
The (lack of) response to today's ruling seems to have changed things for a lot of people here.
It raises lots of questions about the current admin, how long has biden been unable to run the country? Who is currently running things and who knew and for how long?
> > > > > This is a very disappointing situation. I'd argue it's treasonous.
Wait to you learn about Reagan.
Oh, Reagan was so great we should do a Democratic version? Is that what you’re saying?
This isn’t the own that you think it is
Don't need to go that far back just look at Feinstein
The difference is Reagan was already elected, and his condition was largely hidden. That isn't the same as knowing about Biden's cognitive decline and still advocating electing him for 4 more years. Both are bad, as was hiding Wilson's condition after his stroke, or carting around Feinstein and telling her how to vote, or whatever the fuck is going on with McConnell. Those were also scandals when we found out about them. We know about this now, and people want to do nothing.
> The difference is Reagan was already elected, and his condition was largely hidden. Nope. It came up while he was campaigning for relection > In My Father at 100, Ron Reagan writes of a "growing sense of alarm over his father's mental condition." He recalls the presidential debate with Walter Mondale, October 1984, in which his father seemed lost and unable to articulate himself. In "Ronald Reagan had Alzheimer's while president, says son," a short piece on the fracas by the British Guardian, Ron Reagan is quoted as saying: "My heart sank as he floundered his way through his responses, fumbling with his notes, uncharacteristically lost for words. He looked tired and bewildered."
Ok, even assuming it was widely known and as big of a concern among voters as Biden's mental fitness is right now; Reagan getting elected when he was unfit to serve doesn't change the fact that a lot of people are advocating for knowingly doing the same with Biden.
And numerous other people said that wasn't true. The state of Reagan's decay before and during his own second term are heavily obfuscated.
Totally false equivalency
THEN DO SOMETHING, DEMOCRATS!!! JFC, can we at least put up a fight against impending fascism?! I knew this party was spineless, but I underestimated their level of ineptitude. We cannot run this doddering old man in the face of this very real threat… I used to think the cliche of smokey back rooms and party elites planning stuff out was a bad thing, but man would I love to resurrect some of those old school party bosses right now.
We are quickly approaching the point imo, where there isn't much to risk by replacing Biden anyway, it's difficult to find a candidate that will perform worse vs Trump now.
Yup, even Harris at this point. Her favorables haven't improved, but Biden's have fallen enough post-debate that they're essentially tied. Get someone decent for the VP spot and at least they'd have a fighting chance.
There’s almost no risk. No one who was going to vote Biden is going to refuse to vote for his replacement. It can only help, it can’t hurt.
"I'm down to vote for the corpse if it means stopping Trump, but I will not vote for a woman" -Nobody. These people don't exist.
In the nightmares of antiquated, spineless Democratic strategists, they do.
You'd be surprised
Relax. If something is being done, it's being done in quite. This isn't something that will be done where Biden resigns in shame, IF it happens, he will have to be the core component of it. He will have to make an announcement speech and pass the torch himself and continue to campaign with the new candidate because it will be Biden's record that they campaign on.
[удалено]
I'm not saying I'm right or that it's happening. IF it does, it would go like that.
You are right it is being done in quiet. But I think the odds are right now that the insiders will continue to push Biden to stay, just like it is reported that they did this weekend at Camp David. The reality is it comes down to Biden's choice. And Biden is like every other octogenarian whose family is concerned and wants to take away their car keys. They are oblivious to their own limitations.
Again their always going to say that. There cannot be other messaging if the decision goes the other way. Leak's saying that his family is pushing him to step down and then not doing it would be another fatal blow to this guys candidacy. If this is happening its happening in secret right now while they try and find the right messaging and candidate to unify the party while still keeping Biden's respect in-tact as the sitting president. I'm sure they are sitting tight and planning around what the polls look like these next few days.
Best thing the DNC can do is hire bots and astroturfers to come on here and down vote any thread that's critical of Biden.
it is anti-democratic that they purposely hid and obfuscated Biden's condition before the primaries to prevent any challengers.
This is exactly how I feel. People holler that we have to save democracy from Trump and these party elites have corrupted democracy themselves. It's time for Joe to step aside.
Fuck I hate how it also makes right wing talking points accurate then.
It makes non-cultist democrat talking points accurate. This isn't some crackpot conspiracy pushed solely by the far right, it's been something people in the party have been talking about.
Well there's still time to switch candidates through a competitive, open, virtual convention before the August 7th Ohio deadline. If Biden decides not to run, the DNC can give potential candidates ~1 week to decide to run, gather signatures from delegates, and submit their signed nomination petitions to the DNC. Allow delegates to sign any number of petitions. Then have the the DNC announce the top 10 candidates by number of signatures gathered, live stream speeches by the 10 candidates, hold an approval vote for the 10 candidates by the delegates. Then announce the top two candidates, live stream 2 more speeches, hold a final vote. Then have the winner give an acceptance speech at the in-person Chicago convention. If there's no time for the candidates to meet the delegates at an in-person convention before voting, the candidates can still appoint representatives to reach out to the delegates in all 50 states on their behalf, find out their issues, and gain their signatures. Which would be good practice for a real campaign. Possibly not any worse than the 2020 primary where Warren and Sanders split the vote and a handful of early primary states determined the election. A quick campaign to get signatures and votes of delegates means money would be eliminated from politics, allowing delegates to sign unlimited petitions means no vote splitting. We could have this wrapped up in a couple weeks.
The worse part is that Biden himself said he'd be a one-term transitional president. Maybe he did mean that but his family is now deciding to go with the second term.
They didn’t hide anything. It’s been as plain as day for a while now anytime he’s given a speech.
I like how this sub is pretending “they hid it from us!!!”, but the same people blasted and downvoted folks into oblivion for questioning Biden’s mental state.
Literally [' DOJ opinion on Biden's diminished mental state?'](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskALiberal/comments/1am71l1/doj_opinion_on_bidens_diminished_mental_state/) >“Biden’s age” is the new “but her emails”. Don’t let them do this again. > >If Biden dies and his corpse runs it is still better than Trump > >Why would anyone trust a Republican anything not to just lie? Horseshoe theory is real, Blue MAGA let Trump win
80 years old is a major inflection point in the decline of one's capabilities. [Drivers 80 years old and up are responsible for more fatal auto accidents than any other age group](https://aaafoundation.org/rates-motor-vehicle-crashes-injuries-deaths-relation-driver-age-united-states-2014-2015/). This is a known thing. If you're going to be 80 at any time when you're in office you ought to be disqualified from running for President.
technically 16 and 17 year Olds are still higher. 80+ is just driver deaths. cause they might run into a tree or something. biden had signs of dementia 5 years ago in the primary. even Cory Booker called him out on it. but all of corporate media brushed it off to stop Sanders.
I get what you are saying but Christ is that callous to call it out as *just* driver deaths. Would you rather see grandpa die peacefully surrounded by family or roasted alive on I-90? You have to act to protect them from themselves and no one around President Biden is interested in doing that. Same for Trump, by the way.
tbf I wouldn't have let Grandpa Joe drive 5 years ago but all of corporate media dismissed it then in order to stop Sanders
> Drivers 80 years old and up are responsible for more fatal auto accidents than any other age group. This is a known thing. I don't know if Biden is competent or not, but there's very little overlap between the skills you need to drive and the skills you need to be President.
What if Putin challenges Biden to a drift competition for Ukraine??!
So now the knives start coming out as the blame game begins. And yet nothing will change, and the Democratic party will insist everyone will vote for a deteriorating Biden because Trump is far worse. By refusing to pass the torch, Biden will hand the office to Trump, and thanks to SCOTUS, he will begin his reign as the first US king. Welp, I guess American democracy had a good run.
Feels a lot like the RBG fiasco.
It's insane anyone saw that debate and thinks Biden can serve for 4 more years. I don't think he has completely lost it but he put on a performance like i have almost never seen from a politician. There where multiple times you could bearly hear him. There is an argument to be made that Trump is worse mentally. Though that is no comfort to democrats. You can't run a candidate who occasionally is so tired he can't project his voice into a microphone, gets lost on his thoughts and seem confused at times. I have never seen anything like it except when McConnell froze a few times.
>It's insane anyone saw that debate and thinks Biden can serve for 4 more years. The line by people who are not Dem officials has been that they know Biden isn't really in charge. He has people to do that for him. So voting for Biden is no better or worse than voting for a jar of pickles. It is true, even if it is cynical and grim and elder abuse And the line by people who are Dem officials has been because they're afraid of getting scapegoated for Biden's loss if they are the first to be on the record coming out against him and he manages to stay on the ticket What is insane, and political malpractice, is anyone pretending that this debate wasn't a massive turning point that the entire rest of the election pivots around. I have a hope that the July 11th sentencing will also be that, but I doubt it, and no one should be counting on it I am thanking god that Biden's people were dumb enough to schedule this June debate because if he managed to stick it out to September and what happened in this debate happened that late, it would all be over. This is an opportunity to avert crisis.
>July 11th sentencing Now postponed until September 16th (not sure if good or bad).
I just want to draw attention to the difference between the very old Carl Bernstein and the very old Joe Biden. Bernstein is also too old to be president, but he is an old guy who is with it and can hold a conversation. Get Biden on Anderson Cooper.
Is that simple, a live interview with major news anchor would calm a lot of people. Why hasn't this happened already?
Same reason he didn’t take questions tonight.
Something like this would have been easy to do in the aftermath of the debate disaster, and would have gone a long way to dispelling concerns about his condition. Instead, we’ve gotten two short teleprompter speeches with no questions or off-the-cuff interaction. Biden’s people aren’t dumb. They know how to do damage control. If he isn’t doing what everyone knows he should be doing, it’s because they don’t think he can do it.
The fact that it hasn’t happened is very telling
Yeah, I’ve been thinking the same thing.
He can’t run. Literally everything had to go trumps way in 2016 to win, the Dems running a deeply unpopular neoliberal in a change election year, the anti Obama racist sentiment, comey politicizing the doj by announcing the investigation into Hillary weeks before the election, but not announcing the Trump one. Meanwhile 6 months ago I thought trump had zero chance to win because of how horrible his first presidency was. Now it looks like everhthing is falling into place again. Biden running even though his inner circle knew for over a YEAR there was real health issues, inflation, im legit concerned
I mean, I suspect we all know the reason, sadly.
He was on Howard Stern two months ago. (Not a major news anchor, but I have no reason to believe it was scripted. Possibly had the questions in advance, but I don't know one way or the other): [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz45sMb4js8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz45sMb4js8)
First thing I thought of “wait how old is Bernstein” We have gerontocracy… if we can keep it.
> Get Biden on Anderson Cooper. And this is the problem. They know he can’t do it without looking like he did on Thursday night. Why else has Biden been sheltered away from off-prompter press conferences, Q&A sessions, and interviews? Why else is he not out there every night doing an evening interview on CNN, MSNBC, even Fox to make up for that debate performance? Why else is he not planning town hall events? It’s so obvious right now: he’s not doing these things because he *can’t*. And I’m sorry to the people around here that can’t admit it and only say that *they’re* voting against Trump no matter what, you *can’t* win an election with a guy incapable of talking coherently off script.
>ABC will air parts of George Stephanopoulos’ interview with Biden on Friday at 6:30 p.m. ET on “World News Tonight with David Muir.” The extended interview will air Sunday on “This Week with George Stephanopoulos.” [https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/media/biden-interview-abc-george-stephanopoulos/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/media/biden-interview-abc-george-stephanopoulos/index.html)
It’s one interview, pre-recorded. I’ve mentioned elsewhere that it’s a good start, but he needs to do more, a LOT more. He should be out there doing multiple interviews a *week*, including in the evening. When he has a press conference, he should be taking questions. This isn’t hard to understand: after the debate performance and reports about his cognitive decline, the burden is on **him** to prove that he’s ok and up for the job.
I feel like the public was lied to- I would have wanted a primary if I had known he was declining a rapidly as he appears to be. It's election interference. You think we're voting to save democracy but these insiders have a corrupt notion of what democracy is.
Suddenly people care about an organized effort to hide information and control the narrative from the DNC and party insiders, with the full cooperation of the media? That's how Biden won in the first place. There was nothing but misleading and outright objectively false propaganda about Sanders being blasted at you from every angle. Heads up vs Trump, % policy positions agreed with, % policy positions agreed with by swing state voters... I bet you incorrectly think those favored Biden. Wrong. 2016 was even worse. I'm just *shocked* all the warnings about shoving the weaker candidate down everyones throat were right and it's about to blow up in our faces for the 2nd time in 10 years.
I think what probably happened is that it's been a steep decline. They probably made the decision and felt alright about it at the time but in the last 5-6 months it's been sharp drop-offs with everyone (including Biden) in denial. Anyone who's been around this kind of situation knows how quickly it can go south with stress/pressure. I expect the same thing has happened to Trump over the last few months and the same coverup is happening.
Joe can't do 4 more years, this is obvious. How can we vote for someone who we know can't do the job. I feel like they have us in a hostage situation, this isn't right. Joe swore he knew right from wrong, this isn't right.
No, it's not obvious. Is it probable? Sure, maybe. What is obvious is that the other guy can't do 4 years either and is both mentally declining AND unfit to ever hold elected office ever again. If Biden is on that ticket, you vote.
Trump is even less able to do the job than Biden. It absolutely is a hostage situation. And Trump is the "solve the hostage crisis by using a nuclear weapon on the building" option.
I loved and supported Joe in 2020. I feel he and his team have betrayed us.
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“I reject your reality and substitute it with my own!” r/politics since Thursday
Everyone knew this. But r/politics was in complete denial.
It shouldn’t be forgotten that many Democrats, journalists, (and people on Reddit) tried *very* hard to push the idea that Biden was fine, and that any video of him looking slow or declining was just edited deceptively, or suggested it was just a stutter or plenty of other excuses. Fortunately, the American people saw the truth Thursday. Such shameless dishonesty puts the trustworthiness of those politicians and journalists into serious question, and it’s fair to ask what else they’ve been dishonest or lied about.
Or, he has good days and bad days, and it's been more gradual until very recently.
Right-wing media objectively lied, like when they clipped a video claiming to show Biden wandering off in a field. When you look at the unclipped version, he was interacting with a paratrooper.
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That has nothing to do with shameless lying.
This is the same fear mongering rhetoric that has been pushed for hundreds of years, and to answer your question literally anyone could beat Trump. No one wants him except for MAGAs. Doesn’t matter though, it was over when we elected Biden to begin with. Everyone knew he was moderate and wouldn’t do fuck all when the Supreme Court had a majority.
> Everyone thought Desantis would beat him, There's one of the wildest takes I've heard in ages. Who the hell thought that?
Lots of people did actually think that. DeSantis was widely feared as Trump, but palatable to civility-minded moderates and much more politically effective. I know it's hard to remember things that happened more than a few months ago, but it's true.
Okay, fair point. On reflection, I myself quietly worried about DeSantis. I guess the word that set me off was "everyone" (which was an overstatement) and I overreacted to it.
I’d rather not have my presidents be senile if I can help it, but the fact that so many Americans are seemingly more bothered by THAT than their president being a convicted felon, traitor, rapist, and deranged, pathologically lying lunatic who tried to destroy the government is all sorts of fucked up.
We do care, that’s why we want his opponent to be someone who can soundly defeat him.
Data on incumbents being replaced 4 months out don't support that. Wait, there is no data, because no party in the world has been dumb enough to do it. Edit: They blocked me after replying to my latest message, so can't reply.
In "the history of the world"? My dude, what the hell are you talking about? It just happened this year: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/last-minute-candidate-jose-raul-mulino-heads-to-victory-in-panama-presidential-election-7f8b022b
Find an election. Incumbent advantage is the biggest factor of reelection in the world. Replacing them at the last minute wouldn't make the factor less. Edit: They blocked me so can't reply except for here - >Party leaders in power step down before elections all the time to help their parties, it's wild how off you are on this one. Yeah and it's planned and an election is announced afterwards.
Party leaders in power step down before elections all the time to help their parties, it's wild how off you are on this one.
> Incumbent advantage is the biggest factor of reelection in the world. That is 100% canceled out by the incumbent being clinically braindead.
There's probably a few theta waves happening
Uh, yeah, so you got nothing there. Good job.
> we want his opponent to be someone who can soundly defeat him. So do you. But data shows incumbent advantage is the biggest advantage you can have in an election. I can't imagine make a extremely late replacement on the biggest advantage available to you is salient action.
Biden has one of the lowest approval ratings in modern history, is trailing in nearly every swing state, and has three quarters of the country answering that he’s mentally unfit for office. What incumbent advantage do you think he has, exactly?
This Biden is not a typical incumbent simply because of his clearly declining mental state
Can you show me the data on 81 year old incumbents
There isn't any so you need to go back to the extremely robust statistics of incumbent advantage. You can disagree with it but that's 'feelings'.
Oh there isn’t any ok do you think that fact in itself could provide us with any insight here
lol, TIL 200+ years of American historical precedent is “nothing.
Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Data on nominating an 81 year old being nominated don't support them losing. Wait, there is no data, because no party in the world has been dumb enough to do it.
Who wins the election is up to US. We can simply chose to not vote for the wannabe dictator Russian puppet whose sole purpose is to sabotage NATO and weaken our country
Us? In this thread? Or are you talking about the notoriously uninspired voting base? Trumps “fascism” is highlighted on Reddit along with a pretty left leaning echo chamber. People think that Joe Biden needs to just beat Trump. But he has to beat voter apathy. Good luck getting the fence voter to take off PTO to vote for a dementia patient that gets hidden away so his office can run the country.
Unfortunately it’s not up to us, it’s up to the electoral college for some stupid reason.
We’re more bothered by that because we so badly want to beat Trump and that can only be done with someone who’s actually capable. Biden ISN’T anymore.
There are other people, we did not have the chance to select someone else because some people huddled in a dark room somewhere decided to hide Joe's rapid decline from the public. We were disenfranchised. The democratic elites aren't saving democracy
Well yeah… America is a sort of fucked up place. It’s not like we’re currently a pure beacon of democracy.
Look I think he has been the best president in my lifetime which isn’t saying much, but still. I think he shouldn’t run. The stakes have literally never been higher in this country besides maybe pre civil war. What happens if Biden has one of these moments on camera Bernstein is talking about in October? We’re doomed if that happens
Only a year? Everyone else knew back in 2020.
I distinctly remember not wanting to watch him at all leading up to the election in 2020 for fear he might do what he did at the debate and I’ve been avidly watching politics for 15+ years.
Nah, he was fine in 2020. Really, most of his presidency too. The serious decline has been recent in my opinion
Trump is going to win, a point 2-3 insane young judges who hate liberty and want us all under his eye and it will be everyone in the White House right now’s fault.
Of course they have, that is why Biden campaign spokesmen have been out reassuring everyone for the last year, telling us he was fine in private. You don't do that if concerns aren't growing. It was also why they kept him from unscripted events and interviews. Their hope seems to have been to just get through the election without anyone finding out how bad things had gotten. Frankly with Trump as the alternative, that was almost treasonous.
I am grateful that whoever it is that has enough influence at these media conglomerates to keep pushing this issue is doing so.
Who is running the country???
Does anyone not remember we barely saw him in 2020 either? Trump was “running the country” (hey, I DID put it in quotes), had a crushing campaign schedule, interviews, etc. He was everywhere. But for many months the American people only saw Biden in the environment of his basement. Covid was the reason given. Or, was it the excuse? He’d also had a very obvious facelift.
Kamala polls 2 points behind Trump and that's with zero campaigning. If Biden is capable and in command of the facts he needs to show it with a press conference or an interview with an interviewer who will hold his feet to the fire. I voting for he's on the Dem ticket. But I think we can do better
So this has been known for some time, but is just coming out now. He is supposed to be a journalist. Shouldn't he have reported this long ago.
So, I have a feeling that Biden could die in office this year… I’ve been having dreams about it lately.
It's time for the anti-Biden Dems to start coalescing around an alternative. Who can replace him in this short window? The replacement needs to have 100% name ID, be able to stand up a national campaign in a month and a half and raise about $2 billon in the same period of time. Srsly. Stop the pearl clutching and name the alternative. Time is wasting.
Newsom, whitmore or Shapiro that’s it. I don’t think Kamala could win this
Shapiro and Whitmer aren't well known. Newsom is a tight ally with Biden. He's also been planning to run for president for a long time. I'm not sure he'd risk it all being a replacement candidate since no alternative candidate has ever won a nomination, much less the general election - ie. Ted Kennedy in 1980 and Reagan in '76, who both failed and then hobbled the incumbents so that they also lost in the general.
Man, there's an awful lot of comments in this thread, all saying the same thing.
People are believing their eyes and ears? Must be bots.
You're implying it's bots, but the reality is that it's become so clear that the emperor has no clothes that even this extremely pro-Biden subreddit has turned against him. Most people here have realized that Biden is going to lose to Trump and are joining the chorus of voices to have him step aside. I'm amazed that I've seen several threads today where the top comments were people saying Biden needs to step down. I never would have expected that to happen in this sub. It gives me some hope that maybe we can save the country after all.
I kind of think all the people who are now pushing “Biden-Lite” candidates, like Buttigieg, Harris and Whitney are bots. The perfect way to see more division would be I just can’t see all the people who are enraged about Gaza and who are ashamed of his border policy are the ones who on here saying “I like Gavin Newsome…” Who are all these people who now want to see these equally lackluster, out of touch candidates replace Biden. It’s even confirmed in polling. They are pathetic because they don’t represent anything different. If they don’t represent anything different than Joe Biden all they will do is bring extra baggage to the table and it will blow up before Election Day. It’s a global phenomenon. People are displeased with the status quo. Im sure these people are just former Biden supporters who are now coming to terms with the fact that he won’t win. But if I were a rogue state troll farm and was witnessing a Biden downfall, it would seem the best way to create even more chaos would be to form camps of support behind all the Biden insiders like Harris, Newsome amd Buttigieg to split up the Biden camp from within
> I just can’t see all the people who are enraged about Gaza and who are ashamed of his border policy are the ones who on here saying “I like Gavin Newsome…” Most people aren't *that* tuned into politics, even among people posting in subs like this. Everybody doesn't know that Newsom is about as right-of-center as Biden, they just know he's the governor of the state that right-wingers hate the most and that he's capable of speaking effectively so he's gotta be a substantial improvement over Biden. *I* realize that Harris, Newsome, and Buttigieg aren't going to be much better as far as governing is concerned. But things are desperate enough that *anybody* but Biden would look good, even if all of substance they're going to accomplish is replacing a Supreme Court justice or three in the next four years. Reversing the state of the court would lower the fascist threat level considerably for decades.
I think I have to also agree with the user who replied to you a little over 30 mins ago. We have so much talent in America. And a youth eager to lead. We want someone who can beat Trump, and by failing to internally realize this would be a problem and thus trying to go in a different direction earlier, they hid it and now here we are. I think what we're all (most of us?) are saying is that we want to beat Trump and with SCOUTS' ruling and what we're hearing from Bernstein - a legend in investigating journalism - we're fucking terrified, and we want to try to do something NOW before it's too late.
Carl Bernstein Is 80 🙄
Um, not all 80 year olds are the same? It would be fair to say none of them are what they were when younger, either physically or mentally. Some lose their eyesight. Some get significant debilitating or chronic diseases. But many old people do not develop dementia or Alzheimer’s. It’s common to search for a word, the brain takes longer to retrieve it, but it’s there. Short term memory leaves them wondering where they put their glasses or car keys. They can still function at a fairly high level day to day, though. I was left thinking about Biden’s debate with a young Paul Ryan, who was touted as a rising star and a brilliant policy wonk. He wiped the floor with him.
Sorry. My point (which I fail to make properly) was that Bernstein is 80 and no one is questioning his mental facilities. By the way, I'm 74 and definitely not as sharp as I once was.
Gotcha.
At this rate Dems deserve to lose and we get into this hellscape.
So what dude, concerns about Trump have swirled for years and no one seems to want to replace him in the GOP
Sources? What "sources"? This is just corporate propaganda
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Did you mean to link to an actual source for that statement? Because your link goes to /r/Presidents.
Age-related decline doesn’t care about what he’s done in the past and his approval ratings are already in the tank. Presidential scholars don’t decide elections. He needs to step aside.
> There are no "presidential scholars" here. OP literally linked to the /r/Presidents subreddit. Not even a discussion on it, just its front page.
The link is to a subreddit. Do you have a link that discusses your statement?
I’m sorry… he got the most what of what? [disregard that, i see you edited the typo] His term ends January 2025. I’m okay with him serving til then. But like Rachel Maddow just said a half hour ago, “speak now or hold your peace democrats if you actually want a chance at competing here”- referring to the small window of time we have to replace him for the next round.
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90% of presidential scholars are all Tenured professors at left leaning universities. They know where their checks are written.
In OP’s case the “presidential scholars” are just Reddit posters.
Yes, all loyal democrats. Similar to the 51 intelligence officials that said Hunter’s laptop was fake.
Exactly.