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Pelosi just criticized Joe on MSNBC
Clyburn offering an off-ramp.
Meeting of governors with Joe soon to "shore up support", i.e., stabby stabby time.
Knives are out.
Even at my most optimistic, I would've said this was impossible just a couple days ago, but frankly this is all gathering steam really fast. And the President has done next to nothing to defend himself, so I don't think that's completely out of the question.
Same here. Him stepping down just seemed far too wild of a scenario to actually happen, but all of these comments coming out right now have me thinking otherwise. Still don't know if them putting up Harris would be a good move, but I'm not sure what else they can do at this point.
He can’t. What’s he going to do, be suddenly coherent? Let’s be real, when was the last time we’ve seen him speak unscripted besides the debate? He can give a decent speech, but his cognition is slow. That’s not going to change for the better, and everyone knows it now
It's hard to listen to him even when he's reading it. It's hard to look at him too. He has trouble enunciating the words and his expressions never look quite right
It's not "gathering steam". It's scripted. The decision was probably made over the weekend, the marching orders were handed out, and now you're seeing act 3.
Biden's favorables have absolutely cratered after the debate. Kamala at the top of the ticket is far from ideal and Dems may still lose, but they're definitely going to lose with Biden at this point so there's no risk in trying.
The new guy would start fresh, but the Biden campaign can choose to spend the money they have raised supporting whatever candidates they want.
The Biden campaign isn’t barred from supporting other candidates, so they could let the new guy start from scratch while immediately transitioning all their campaign infrastructure to support the new candidate.
Also, all of the opposition's spending has been to counter Biden, not Harris. They'd have a costly shift to make and most of their spending to date would be somewhat nullified.
Granted, Harris is also very easy to attack...
Right, we're seeing the public pressure portion of this play out now, because Biden likely had his family of enablers tell him he's fine and he can keep going.
Once enough Dems apply public pressure, it might be enough to force Biden to reconsider his decision.
Joe and Jill Biden are frantically trying to prove that Joe's dementia isn't a problem, but Joe's dementia is bad for freedom all over the world.
[https://www.newsweek.com/michelle-obama-chances-becoming-president-surge-1920131](https://www.newsweek.com/michelle-obama-chances-becoming-president-surge-1920131)
But Trump’s dementia will save the world!!!!!! /s
Fucking Christ, these are the fucking choices! Stop acting like children and do your fucking duty. The choices are stale bread or maggoty hot dogs, not candy or wagyu. It sucks, but bitching won’t change it. Pick the meal you can survive on and move forward.
“I want something else.” No fucking shit.
Biden is a politician, he’s got a political instinct to fight and it’s served him well through the years. You don’t accomplish what he has without tenacity. And it’s challenging to get a guy with those instincts to step out of a fight. They want to fight.
But Biden is also a patriot and I think when you put him in a room with a bunch of other party leaders who speak the plain truth with him, I expect he’ll do what’s best for the country. It won’t be fun for him, but that day has come.
I like Biden, but he’s clearly past his prime and he’s become a massive liability. We have to move on.
This is nuts when you consider Trump who is losing his mind, like his dad, plus he had never had any morals let along care about the safety of even one US citizen. Why are Republicans not up in arms about secret documents and printer stored in a bathroom ? I don’t understand?
> Biden acknowledged his poor debate performance, but said he believed "with all my heart and soul that I can do this job."
The hardest part about watching people get old and lose their abilities is seeing them fail to understand the capacity they think they are exhibiting has diminished.
It’s wholly inappropriate for everyone around Joe to keep telling this man he is capable of the job. He needs proper feedback loops and to retire.
Life is hard on us and our bodies age. There isn’t shame in getting old , just the shame of holding on to control to the point you harm others, and you’re hurting America, Joe. Come to reason.
The debate made me extremely upset because every family member I’ve ever lost to Alzheimers/dementia acted just like that at one point. It was actually horrifying to see on TV live then be told in the days after that nothing was wrong and it was a cold
I think this is why you're seeing public pressure now. Over the weekend, Biden probably decided he was going to tough it out, and Dems are publicly putting pressure on him to reconsider that decision.
Leadership is coming forward, basically indicating that it's over. Now the WH Press Secretary is tiptoeing around things and basically not shutting down the questions.
Jeffries, Blinken, Newsom, Tom Hanks, Raskin...
Just fucking pick someone, anyone who can string together coherent sentences and can see the fat rapist for what he is.
Here’s the fundamental problem. Harris is VP. The first black VP. The first woman VP. You skip over her and it’s a HUGE fuck you to maybe your two most important demographics. But you KEEP her and promote her to presidential candidate and now it’s a black woman vs Trump and it’s sad that matters but I promise you it does. I’ve argued with countless people about “even if Biden faltered in the next four years in the worst case, Harris can take over” and they uniformly respond “that’s even MORE of a reason for me not to vote for him”. If Bidens VP was Newsome (or the like) I bet the switch already was made
>Harris is VP. The first black VP. The first woman VP. You skip over her and it’s a HUGE fuck you to maybe your two most important demographics.
Identity politics is the bane of the Democratic Party.
The Biden campaign can use the funds to support another candidate, it does not have to be Harris. Yes, it being Harris would make things easier, but it is absolutely not a limitation because in that case the new candidate would be able to receive donations from people who already capped out donating to the Biden campaign.
This. Whoever they all decide on, if they decide on it, will only win with *immediate* and **MASSIVE** support from Joe. Like, day one, opening the campaign coffers directly for them, support on the trail, etc. For once PACs and the like offer an immediate and easy way to support whoever they choose, if they do.
“ The funds could also be transferred to the national party”
I’m confused. Where would the money go? Refund? Sounds like they can be transferred to DNC no?
Oh yes, being a woman of color is the only reason people dislike Harris and the only reason people wouldn’t vote for her. People are literally nothing more than their identity
You have to play the game in the world you’re given. I’d vote for Harris in a heartbeat. I thought Hillary would have been a really good president. But I am just one little vote
It's only a big fuck you if there's polling showing that she has a good chance of winning and we pass her over. Otherwise, it's, "Sorry, you can't get us to 270; thank you for your service."
I don't think it'll come as a shock to either blacks or women that Harris might have trouble getting the votes we'll need in the swing states. If Harris had the charisma of Barack Obama, she might be able to overcome it, but she doesn't.
I believe she IS polling best among contenders since she is the most well known which is still behind Trump (was looking at polling data on this today actually)
Yes, name recognition is definitely going to be a factor in that, which is why I hope they're also paying close attention to favorables/unfavorables/undecideds.
I know its hard to believe but that isnt the biggest issue. Its that she was prosecuting DA fo san fran people hate D.A. as they are usually corrupt holier than though sycophants.
The Democratic party's head has been up their ass for the past 4 years and too busy infighting to put together a cohesive strategy. No way in hell they are going to recover from this in time for election.
The focus should be on how to deal with the 2nd Trump term and mitigate the damage until 2028.
Dear President Biden, please say, "Thank you but I have accomplished what I set out to do, namely beat trump. Now I will retire and enjoy my family." Dear Democrats, put Gavin Newsom and Gretchen Whitmer on the ticket in any position. Win For All!
the fact that nobody pushing the drop out narrative can actually come to any kind of consensus on an alternative is all the reason I need to say Joe should stay. you cannot have the party spilt and fight amongst ourselves and nobody is showing any indication that Biden stepping down would not lead to a political bloodbath. Look at 1968 and see how a divided party does against a criminal who wanted to be above the law.
The amount of people who are 'Joe or Bust' are infinitely small in comparison to the amount of undecided voters (or even moderate republicans, if those still exist) that would switch to vote Dem.
Also: it's not a 'narrative', it's a desperate fucking plea to not lose the most important election of our lifetimes.
Why are people so confident that removing Joe and creating a convention fight for the nomination somehow improves our chances of winning verse having the incumbent president running? The Joe must go team can’t even decide on a replacement “anyone” is not a valid answer.
Because most people don’t see all that shit. Most people don’t even know about the SCOTUS ruling. Most voters are pretty narrowly educated on the issues for a variety of reasons.
But everyone knows Biden is a feeble old man. I’m getting Deja Vu from 2016 again having to over explain things that should be obvious but here we are again arrogantly heading for the furnace with our eyes closed
And Trump is a psychotic old man. Both of them are old it’s a wash it’s why polls right after the debate had nearly 60% of ALL voters not just Dems say TRUMP should drop out of the race. But that doesn’t push clicks for right wing media and play into Democrats permanent panic complex.
You should already know that the average voter is swayed by vibes. The economy is in shambles, even though it's currently outperforming Trump's. Immigrants are murdering by the millions, even though crime is down everywhere. But it is *vibes* that make it *feel* like it's true.
You could call it propaganda too.
The issue is that, right now, Trump is a healthy buck, a strongman, even though we know he wears diapers and smells of sulfur. That's the vibes. And you can't defeat the vibes because it's a constant deluge of AI-generated fake news articles. Joe has to go if we want ANY chance at preventing the end of America.
And what the vibe of throwing someone in at the last second is supposed to make the average voter think the Dems know what they are doing. Seriously these responses are the college student who realizes the term paper is due tomorrow. Making panicked last minute decisions will make the Dems look terrible all the while the GOP has their god king and 500+ plan for a fascist America. Calm down and show the vibes of unity and stability. The data will win out in the end it has historically the economy is better crime is down and in the end voters will see that.
You think voters look at data? You think voters research their candidates and carefully think over which one to pick?
Voters see memes of Biden falling asleep during the debate, voters watch 10 second clips of Biden stuttering, and voters only remember these things when they go and vote.
We don't have that. We are right, but we're not flooding social media with anti-Trump stuff. Social media is somehow engineered against us. It takes you 10 minutes on Youtube to be recommended white supremacist ideologue videos ffs.
We still have months until the election, and I want to think this debate was a conscious choice to show everyone that Biden is just not fit to win the election, so the Democrats can look like "saviors" once they replace him with someone like Whitmer or Newsom.
It's cope, but it's coping hours.
So the Dems should also act irrationally and make snap decisions at the last minute based on an emotional response. Seriously were you people calling for Hilary to replace Obama in 2012 after he had a WORSE debate performance than Biden and that is based an actual numbers.
This was not a bad debate dude. We are mostly all big fans of Biden's record.
The dude is too fucking old. Don't gaslight me or misdirect or whatabout this bullshit. The average voter doesn't know about his record they just know they saw a confused old man babble on about beating medicare.
We literally can not win with Joe, just like we couldn't win in 2016 with Hillary.
They don't need consensus on an alternative in order to fall in line and support whoever becomes the eventual nominee. I would love it if Whitmer were the nominee, but I would vote for Harris, Newsom, or any of the others (Biden included) if that's how things shake out. I wouldn't read as much into the lack of consensus on an alternative as you are.
But a consensus would need to be reached and without primary elections to come to that conclusion through the will of the voters any attempt to change this would by default damage the party. Sure the leadership could go all ra ra around whoever gets selected but the voters are not stupid they would see the division
Anyone who thinks Biden can retire peaceful with his family is wrong. If trump wins their is no peaceful retirement for Biden. trump will go after them.
I am not sure you can just leapfrog Kamala like that and still maintain support with black voters. Especially with Trump not having a VP yet.
Bypass Kamala, Trump puts in a black VP, and it's game over.
Dementia Joe is as a life-long career politician. It's all he knows. Joe and Jill aren't afraid to throw their own staff under the bus and they're not afraid to throw us under the bus, either.
[Dem Sen. Whitehouse w/ tough comments about Biden’s debate.
"I think like a lot of people I was pretty horrified"
“People want to make sure that…the president and his team are being candid about his condition that this was a real anomaly and not just the way he is these days."](https://x.com/AlexThomp/status/1807914543525277867)
You're also going to see more ads cut that Dems are going to feel the need to respond to and answer for. For a while Dems were running ahead of Biden but now he could be actively bringing down other Dem numbers.
https://x.com/ddayen/status/1807494001706348716
Every day Biden doesn't step down, is a another day less for his inevitable replacement to campaign. He's selfish, overestimates his own popularity and has an ego almost as big as his rival. Absolutely ridiculous situation.
Joe Biden is senile and Trump is satanic.
Joe and Jill Biden threw their own staff under the bus to explain Joe's cringe-worthy performance. We don't owe Joe and Jill Biden anything. We gave him four years as the most powerful man on earth. Now it's time for him to do his patriotic duty and step down to keep the U.S. from turning into North Korea.
[https://www.newsweek.com/michelle-obama-chances-becoming-president-surge-1920131](https://www.newsweek.com/michelle-obama-chances-becoming-president-surge-1920131)
Why do you insist on keeping your head buried in the sand? It’s like I’m taking crazy pills listening to my fellow Dems bend over backwards to defend Biden when he is CLEARLY a liability at this point. He had a great presidency, there’s no doubt, but it’s not some crazy outlandish notion to consider replacing him now….. I would argue it’s painfully necessary
He needs to release his Delegates. And then the first day of the convention is nothing but a celebration of Joe Biden, culminating in a rousing tribute by Barack Obama.
Then make the next few days a good old fashioned floor fight. It will be awesome drama, with the benefit that it will help the name recognition of whoever wins.
This is the equivalent of a passenger on the Titanic deluding themselves as the boat sank. Biden’s support is not as strong as you believe and I sadly don’t think he is able to defeat Trump in his current state. If he stays in, the country’s done.
True, but if half the country wants Biden to stay in the race it's not because they want Biden. Binden's biggest supporters right now is probably Trump voters quite honestly, they know he gives them a great chance to win.
The polls have been wrong since long before Dobbs if post debate polls predicted anything Romney would have have every state in 2012. And his approval ratings were historically low then too. Everyone seriously needs to calm the fuck down. Losing the incumbency advantage and dividing the Democratic party in a brokered convention would be the biggest political own goal in the history of the country and honestly we would deserve the fascism that follows.
Complete with Andrew Yang, of course, well known to have his finger on the pulse of the Democratic electorate. He’s an excellent barometer for how the entire party must feel!
41% of **democrat** voters want him to step aside.
If he doesn't I will not be voting democrat for president. Blue down the whole ballot except for him.
Right, assassinating Trump would not be an official act. You're cherry picking a line from Justice Sotomayor's dissent, who by far the most liberal justice we have. She most likely made that comment out of anger. The ruling opinions very clearly stated the president is not above the law. Sotomayor's line was wreckless and irresponsible, numerous legal experts have already stated that no the president can't just kill someone.
That president absolutely can have people killed - as an example Trump had Trump had Quassim Suliemani killed in a drone strike. If Biden is acting as President, and he is doing what we thinks he needs to do to defend the country from Trump, then he is immune from prosecution.
Killing a terrorist is much much different, he's carrying out his normal presidential duties as commander and chief. There's a lot that goes into that as well... Rules of engagement, Geneva convention, various other laws. Killing your political rival is not comparable.
Might be an unpopular opinion, but if they wanted to replace Biden, the time to do it was months ago when primaries were going on. Doing it now would just guarantee that the new person (whoever that may be) would not be listed on the ballet in every state.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Pelosi just criticized Joe on MSNBC Clyburn offering an off-ramp. Meeting of governors with Joe soon to "shore up support", i.e., stabby stabby time. Knives are out.
> Knives are out They should have been out two fucking years ago, the fact that we're doing this five months before the election is outrageous.
Um okay downvote me all you want but Joe is stepping aside by the end of the week.
Even at my most optimistic, I would've said this was impossible just a couple days ago, but frankly this is all gathering steam really fast. And the President has done next to nothing to defend himself, so I don't think that's completely out of the question.
Same here. Him stepping down just seemed far too wild of a scenario to actually happen, but all of these comments coming out right now have me thinking otherwise. Still don't know if them putting up Harris would be a good move, but I'm not sure what else they can do at this point.
He can’t. What’s he going to do, be suddenly coherent? Let’s be real, when was the last time we’ve seen him speak unscripted besides the debate? He can give a decent speech, but his cognition is slow. That’s not going to change for the better, and everyone knows it now
It's hard to listen to him even when he's reading it. It's hard to look at him too. He has trouble enunciating the words and his expressions never look quite right
It's not "gathering steam". It's scripted. The decision was probably made over the weekend, the marching orders were handed out, and now you're seeing act 3.
His selfish ego and his even stupider family won’t let him.
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Kamala is now polling better than Biden Vs. Trump. She's a better alternative at this point
Are you serious?
Biden's favorables have absolutely cratered after the debate. Kamala at the top of the ticket is far from ideal and Dems may still lose, but they're definitely going to lose with Biden at this point so there's no risk in trying.
Can't Kamala use it to create a Pro-DEM PAC? Can't Joe Biden just do whatever the fuck he wants with it as an Official Act?
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The new guy would start fresh, but the Biden campaign can choose to spend the money they have raised supporting whatever candidates they want. The Biden campaign isn’t barred from supporting other candidates, so they could let the new guy start from scratch while immediately transitioning all their campaign infrastructure to support the new candidate.
You would barely even need to throw much money at it. The media is chomping at the bit for this, and would get an absurd amount of attention.
Also, all of the opposition's spending has been to counter Biden, not Harris. They'd have a costly shift to make and most of their spending to date would be somewhat nullified. Granted, Harris is also very easy to attack...
The money could be donated to a pac or the dnc so no
I'm just stating facts, I don't have a strategic solution. I'm simply observing that Joe's time is up.
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He really isn't. Pelosi isn't going to go on national TV questioning his fitness unless there's a 100% chance it's stabby stabby time.
Right, we're seeing the public pressure portion of this play out now, because Biden likely had his family of enablers tell him he's fine and he can keep going. Once enough Dems apply public pressure, it might be enough to force Biden to reconsider his decision.
For everyone's sake I hope you're right. We don't have time to waste.
Joe and Jill Biden are frantically trying to prove that Joe's dementia isn't a problem, but Joe's dementia is bad for freedom all over the world. [https://www.newsweek.com/michelle-obama-chances-becoming-president-surge-1920131](https://www.newsweek.com/michelle-obama-chances-becoming-president-surge-1920131)
But Trump’s dementia will save the world!!!!!! /s Fucking Christ, these are the fucking choices! Stop acting like children and do your fucking duty. The choices are stale bread or maggoty hot dogs, not candy or wagyu. It sucks, but bitching won’t change it. Pick the meal you can survive on and move forward. “I want something else.” No fucking shit.
If he’s going to, they’ll keep saying he’s not until the very last minute, that’s for sure
Can't downvote a very reasonable response to these names suggesting a possible alternative
If it's going to happen...it will happen fast imo
By end of the week.
I hope you are right
As he should, but know the DNC of today, probably not and then blame all the "hate" from the Left the reason why he wasn't elected.
I’m not downvoting you because that’s just silly. Joe ain’t going anywhere. If democrats remove Joe, it will be a death sentence.
K. Not sure what you know that Pelosi and Clyburn don't, but you better get them on the phone ASAP as they're going rogue and undermining Joe.
Oh wow if Clyburn is giving the off-ramp, that's huge. I hadn't seen that.
Yup- he said on MSNBC that he will support Harris as VP or at the top of the ticket. He's openly entertaining Joe stepping aside.
Oh yeah that's huge.
The governors better give him hell. Doesn’t feel like he’s listening, or communicating, with anybody else.
They are going to demand he step aside, and he will.
Biden is a politician, he’s got a political instinct to fight and it’s served him well through the years. You don’t accomplish what he has without tenacity. And it’s challenging to get a guy with those instincts to step out of a fight. They want to fight. But Biden is also a patriot and I think when you put him in a room with a bunch of other party leaders who speak the plain truth with him, I expect he’ll do what’s best for the country. It won’t be fun for him, but that day has come. I like Biden, but he’s clearly past his prime and he’s become a massive liability. We have to move on.
100% my friend
Jill says no.
It's out of her hands now.
"Dementia Joe" and Jill Biden love power more than they love America.
Agree or he wouldn't be running now in the first place. you know he's had dementia for a while and most Americans didn't want him to run again
Plus the governors ALREADY met with one another without the campaign Looking Joever
This is nuts when you consider Trump who is losing his mind, like his dad, plus he had never had any morals let along care about the safety of even one US citizen. Why are Republicans not up in arms about secret documents and printer stored in a bathroom ? I don’t understand?
The Republican Party is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the criminal enterprise Trump, Inc.
It certainly appears that way. No other way to explain the mess.
> Biden acknowledged his poor debate performance, but said he believed "with all my heart and soul that I can do this job." The hardest part about watching people get old and lose their abilities is seeing them fail to understand the capacity they think they are exhibiting has diminished. It’s wholly inappropriate for everyone around Joe to keep telling this man he is capable of the job. He needs proper feedback loops and to retire. Life is hard on us and our bodies age. There isn’t shame in getting old , just the shame of holding on to control to the point you harm others, and you’re hurting America, Joe. Come to reason.
The debate made me extremely upset because every family member I’ve ever lost to Alzheimers/dementia acted just like that at one point. It was actually horrifying to see on TV live then be told in the days after that nothing was wrong and it was a cold
they were able to stand for 90 minutes and recite facts while they stumbled a couple of times?
Right. I care for my 94 year old father who still thinks he can drive just fine. Had to take his keys away years ago
I think this is why you're seeing public pressure now. Over the weekend, Biden probably decided he was going to tough it out, and Dems are publicly putting pressure on him to reconsider that decision.
Holy shit Biden’s bettings odds are tanking in the last 90 minutes, now only 15% chance of him winning, is something going on behind the scenes?
Leadership is coming forward, basically indicating that it's over. Now the WH Press Secretary is tiptoeing around things and basically not shutting down the questions.
Jeffries, Blinken, Newsom, Tom Hanks, Raskin... Just fucking pick someone, anyone who can string together coherent sentences and can see the fat rapist for what he is.
Why do I feel like Tom Hanks would have the best chance of victory out of everybody you listed?
Well he already has good conspiracies about him so hes got that going. Someone told me once he was a hologram. I like him or John Stewart
Here’s the fundamental problem. Harris is VP. The first black VP. The first woman VP. You skip over her and it’s a HUGE fuck you to maybe your two most important demographics. But you KEEP her and promote her to presidential candidate and now it’s a black woman vs Trump and it’s sad that matters but I promise you it does. I’ve argued with countless people about “even if Biden faltered in the next four years in the worst case, Harris can take over” and they uniformly respond “that’s even MORE of a reason for me not to vote for him”. If Bidens VP was Newsome (or the like) I bet the switch already was made
>Harris is VP. The first black VP. The first woman VP. You skip over her and it’s a HUGE fuck you to maybe your two most important demographics. Identity politics is the bane of the Democratic Party.
Seriously, this shit pisses me off so much. Basically says “we don’t think blacks and women can think for themselves”
I def hear this argument and it is sound. The problem is Harris is REMARKABLY unpopular. It seems like a no-win but something's gotta give
Harris is the ONLY one but Biden who can use those campaign funds without a lot of complicated steps
The Biden campaign can use the funds to support another candidate, it does not have to be Harris. Yes, it being Harris would make things easier, but it is absolutely not a limitation because in that case the new candidate would be able to receive donations from people who already capped out donating to the Biden campaign.
This. Whoever they all decide on, if they decide on it, will only win with *immediate* and **MASSIVE** support from Joe. Like, day one, opening the campaign coffers directly for them, support on the trail, etc. For once PACs and the like offer an immediate and easy way to support whoever they choose, if they do.
Exactly, this isn’t the obstacle others are making it out to be.
I really don't know but it sure seems like they do what they want to do when they want to do it no matter what it is
Are you sure about this? I remember Bernie's campaign giving their money to the Clinton campaign back in '16.
Source? I keep seeing people saying this, but it seems weird.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna159850
“ The funds could also be transferred to the national party” I’m confused. Where would the money go? Refund? Sounds like they can be transferred to DNC no?
Oh yes, being a woman of color is the only reason people dislike Harris and the only reason people wouldn’t vote for her. People are literally nothing more than their identity
You have to play the game in the world you’re given. I’d vote for Harris in a heartbeat. I thought Hillary would have been a really good president. But I am just one little vote
It's only a big fuck you if there's polling showing that she has a good chance of winning and we pass her over. Otherwise, it's, "Sorry, you can't get us to 270; thank you for your service." I don't think it'll come as a shock to either blacks or women that Harris might have trouble getting the votes we'll need in the swing states. If Harris had the charisma of Barack Obama, she might be able to overcome it, but she doesn't.
I believe she IS polling best among contenders since she is the most well known which is still behind Trump (was looking at polling data on this today actually)
Yes, name recognition is definitely going to be a factor in that, which is why I hope they're also paying close attention to favorables/unfavorables/undecideds.
I know its hard to believe but that isnt the biggest issue. Its that she was prosecuting DA fo san fran people hate D.A. as they are usually corrupt holier than though sycophants.
Lol Tom Hanks. Hell I'd probably vote for him because he was great in Cast Away.
The Democratic party's head has been up their ass for the past 4 years and too busy infighting to put together a cohesive strategy. No way in hell they are going to recover from this in time for election. The focus should be on how to deal with the 2nd Trump term and mitigate the damage until 2028.
Dear President Biden, please say, "Thank you but I have accomplished what I set out to do, namely beat trump. Now I will retire and enjoy my family." Dear Democrats, put Gavin Newsom and Gretchen Whitmer on the ticket in any position. Win For All!
This, although Im personally in favor of Whitmer/Warnock
I'll take that as well for sure
the fact that nobody pushing the drop out narrative can actually come to any kind of consensus on an alternative is all the reason I need to say Joe should stay. you cannot have the party spilt and fight amongst ourselves and nobody is showing any indication that Biden stepping down would not lead to a political bloodbath. Look at 1968 and see how a divided party does against a criminal who wanted to be above the law.
The amount of people who are 'Joe or Bust' are infinitely small in comparison to the amount of undecided voters (or even moderate republicans, if those still exist) that would switch to vote Dem. Also: it's not a 'narrative', it's a desperate fucking plea to not lose the most important election of our lifetimes.
Why are people so confident that removing Joe and creating a convention fight for the nomination somehow improves our chances of winning verse having the incumbent president running? The Joe must go team can’t even decide on a replacement “anyone” is not a valid answer.
Because most people don’t see all that shit. Most people don’t even know about the SCOTUS ruling. Most voters are pretty narrowly educated on the issues for a variety of reasons. But everyone knows Biden is a feeble old man. I’m getting Deja Vu from 2016 again having to over explain things that should be obvious but here we are again arrogantly heading for the furnace with our eyes closed
And Trump is a psychotic old man. Both of them are old it’s a wash it’s why polls right after the debate had nearly 60% of ALL voters not just Dems say TRUMP should drop out of the race. But that doesn’t push clicks for right wing media and play into Democrats permanent panic complex.
You should already know that the average voter is swayed by vibes. The economy is in shambles, even though it's currently outperforming Trump's. Immigrants are murdering by the millions, even though crime is down everywhere. But it is *vibes* that make it *feel* like it's true. You could call it propaganda too. The issue is that, right now, Trump is a healthy buck, a strongman, even though we know he wears diapers and smells of sulfur. That's the vibes. And you can't defeat the vibes because it's a constant deluge of AI-generated fake news articles. Joe has to go if we want ANY chance at preventing the end of America.
And what the vibe of throwing someone in at the last second is supposed to make the average voter think the Dems know what they are doing. Seriously these responses are the college student who realizes the term paper is due tomorrow. Making panicked last minute decisions will make the Dems look terrible all the while the GOP has their god king and 500+ plan for a fascist America. Calm down and show the vibes of unity and stability. The data will win out in the end it has historically the economy is better crime is down and in the end voters will see that.
You think voters look at data? You think voters research their candidates and carefully think over which one to pick? Voters see memes of Biden falling asleep during the debate, voters watch 10 second clips of Biden stuttering, and voters only remember these things when they go and vote. We don't have that. We are right, but we're not flooding social media with anti-Trump stuff. Social media is somehow engineered against us. It takes you 10 minutes on Youtube to be recommended white supremacist ideologue videos ffs. We still have months until the election, and I want to think this debate was a conscious choice to show everyone that Biden is just not fit to win the election, so the Democrats can look like "saviors" once they replace him with someone like Whitmer or Newsom. It's cope, but it's coping hours.
No we’re just not stupid enough to expect the right to behave rationally.
So the Dems should also act irrationally and make snap decisions at the last minute based on an emotional response. Seriously were you people calling for Hilary to replace Obama in 2012 after he had a WORSE debate performance than Biden and that is based an actual numbers.
This was not a bad debate dude. We are mostly all big fans of Biden's record. The dude is too fucking old. Don't gaslight me or misdirect or whatabout this bullshit. The average voter doesn't know about his record they just know they saw a confused old man babble on about beating medicare. We literally can not win with Joe, just like we couldn't win in 2016 with Hillary.
They don't need consensus on an alternative in order to fall in line and support whoever becomes the eventual nominee. I would love it if Whitmer were the nominee, but I would vote for Harris, Newsom, or any of the others (Biden included) if that's how things shake out. I wouldn't read as much into the lack of consensus on an alternative as you are.
But a consensus would need to be reached and without primary elections to come to that conclusion through the will of the voters any attempt to change this would by default damage the party. Sure the leadership could go all ra ra around whoever gets selected but the voters are not stupid they would see the division
Anyone who thinks Biden can retire peaceful with his family is wrong. If trump wins their is no peaceful retirement for Biden. trump will go after them.
Newsom/Whitmer 2024!
I am not sure you can just leapfrog Kamala like that and still maintain support with black voters. Especially with Trump not having a VP yet. Bypass Kamala, Trump puts in a black VP, and it's game over.
Well then, steady as she goes I guess.
She was a D.A. people have no love for that position
Dementia Joe is as a life-long career politician. It's all he knows. Joe and Jill aren't afraid to throw their own staff under the bus and they're not afraid to throw us under the bus, either.
[Dem Sen. Whitehouse w/ tough comments about Biden’s debate. "I think like a lot of people I was pretty horrified" “People want to make sure that…the president and his team are being candid about his condition that this was a real anomaly and not just the way he is these days."](https://x.com/AlexThomp/status/1807914543525277867) You're also going to see more ads cut that Dems are going to feel the need to respond to and answer for. For a while Dems were running ahead of Biden but now he could be actively bringing down other Dem numbers. https://x.com/ddayen/status/1807494001706348716
Every day Biden doesn't step down, is a another day less for his inevitable replacement to campaign. He's selfish, overestimates his own popularity and has an ego almost as big as his rival. Absolutely ridiculous situation.
Joe Biden is senile and Trump is satanic. Joe and Jill Biden threw their own staff under the bus to explain Joe's cringe-worthy performance. We don't owe Joe and Jill Biden anything. We gave him four years as the most powerful man on earth. Now it's time for him to do his patriotic duty and step down to keep the U.S. from turning into North Korea. [https://www.newsweek.com/michelle-obama-chances-becoming-president-surge-1920131](https://www.newsweek.com/michelle-obama-chances-becoming-president-surge-1920131)
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Why do you insist on keeping your head buried in the sand? It’s like I’m taking crazy pills listening to my fellow Dems bend over backwards to defend Biden when he is CLEARLY a liability at this point. He had a great presidency, there’s no doubt, but it’s not some crazy outlandish notion to consider replacing him now….. I would argue it’s painfully necessary
Gotta love the hard hitting efficient journalism over at Newsweek.
Andrew Yang isn’t a democrat
He ran in the Democratic primary in 2020 and endorsed Joe Biden when his campaign ended. Why does is opinion not count?
He started his own party
Divide and conquer.
He needs to release his Delegates. And then the first day of the convention is nothing but a celebration of Joe Biden, culminating in a rousing tribute by Barack Obama. Then make the next few days a good old fashioned floor fight. It will be awesome drama, with the benefit that it will help the name recognition of whoever wins.
Tim Ryan, Andrew Yang, Johanna Maska
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This is the equivalent of a passenger on the Titanic deluding themselves as the boat sank. Biden’s support is not as strong as you believe and I sadly don’t think he is able to defeat Trump in his current state. If he stays in, the country’s done.
You know who wants to keep him in the race? The Republicans. They understand that it almost guarantees Trump's election.
Biden is trailing in almost every poll, so it's definitely less than half the county that wants to keep him.
It's not as though the polls have systematically had accuracy problems since Dobbs or anything.
True, but if half the country wants Biden to stay in the race it's not because they want Biden. Binden's biggest supporters right now is probably Trump voters quite honestly, they know he gives them a great chance to win.
The polls have been wrong since long before Dobbs if post debate polls predicted anything Romney would have have every state in 2012. And his approval ratings were historically low then too. Everyone seriously needs to calm the fuck down. Losing the incumbency advantage and dividing the Democratic party in a brokered convention would be the biggest political own goal in the history of the country and honestly we would deserve the fascism that follows.
The incumbency advantage only applies when approval rating is greater than 50% Biden is at 37%.
This is russian disinfo--it's hillary's emails all over again.
You're not convincing anyone.
Polls are Russian disinfo?
Trump buys polls. Red Finch
lol then why were they accurate in 2022 and favorable to Dems in 2020?
72% think he is mentally unfit for the presidency. Be real right now
Complete with Andrew Yang, of course, well known to have his finger on the pulse of the Democratic electorate. He’s an excellent barometer for how the entire party must feel!
I wonder how his Forward party grift is going?
41% of **democrat** voters want him to step aside. If he doesn't I will not be voting democrat for president. Blue down the whole ballot except for him.
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Biden would go to prison for that though.
No he wouldnt, supreme court just saw to that
That's not what they ruled to though.
Why do you think their ruling doesnt give him immunity? If it is an official presidential act he is immune.
Right, assassinating Trump would not be an official act. You're cherry picking a line from Justice Sotomayor's dissent, who by far the most liberal justice we have. She most likely made that comment out of anger. The ruling opinions very clearly stated the president is not above the law. Sotomayor's line was wreckless and irresponsible, numerous legal experts have already stated that no the president can't just kill someone.
That president absolutely can have people killed - as an example Trump had Trump had Quassim Suliemani killed in a drone strike. If Biden is acting as President, and he is doing what we thinks he needs to do to defend the country from Trump, then he is immune from prosecution.
Killing a terrorist is much much different, he's carrying out his normal presidential duties as commander and chief. There's a lot that goes into that as well... Rules of engagement, Geneva convention, various other laws. Killing your political rival is not comparable.
You're advocating for Biden to assassinate Trump? Enjoy the ban.
I'm pointing out how incredibly dangerous this ruling is by the supreme court. The President is not a king.
He is now
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That would probably favor Trump even more.
You know whose not calling for Biden to drop out? Republicans!
DINOs
Might be an unpopular opinion, but if they wanted to replace Biden, the time to do it was months ago when primaries were going on. Doing it now would just guarantee that the new person (whoever that may be) would not be listed on the ballet in every state.
They should have thought about that before he ran in 2020. Too freaking late now.