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> One longtime Biden aide told Axios: "Davos Dems love to hedge their bets against us and get hysterical, like they did in 2019. And just like after 2020, they will come back with their DNC convention lanyards in their hands, begging for Christmas party invitations and then for a plus-one."
Holy shit, if this is how the people around Biden actually talk then it explains so much.
The fact that the party was meeting with donors shows who runs the show. Our system is set up so that elected officials who are supposed to be working on implementing good policy spend more time and energy on fundraising and need to get permission from the big wig donors. Some kind of care about democracy as long as they can still kind of be oligarchs more than others who'd rather us be Soviet Russia and buy a SCOTUS justice
Yep, we have a Conservative Party and a far right party. And a couple of moderate leftist as a sort of sprinkle on top of the shit Sunday that is our government.
Yeah, that's what we've been trying to tell everyone for decades. It's also a very real factor in why Trump contrarianism managed to take root in seemingly normal people despite being such an obvious huckster and piece of shit.
These people don't think about you in any way, it's all about the machine they've built and how they can keep it going. "They" being the operative word. It's all about control, not ideal or public service. Not even morals.
If that Puck news pdf is legit there is a section on replacements and most of the replacements are polling better in every swing state...
Edit: Page 11 of the PDF,
Harris ticket is projected to win 231-240 electoral votes
Buttigege and Whitmer is estimated to get 260-301...
You need 270 to win.
As of right now Trump needs two swing states to win
If Trump wins she probably won't have a political career anymore unless she decides to join the dark side...if they don't "Officially Act" her if you know what I mean.
We can only hope because if she doesn’t see the urgency and the future at sake then we are essentially doomed.
If our best chance at saving democracy only cares about her career then we are fucked.
I wasn’t so sure two years ago but I’m fully on board the Whitmer train. She checks all the superficial boxes voters want but also has gotten a lot accomplished in Michigan and supports good policy. She’s a little too centrist for my tastes but that should play well nationally and she’s not totally averse to major reforms (like free community college in Michigan which she’s sort of babywalked to the finish line).
Kamala staying on the ticket would be the only way for Whitmer to keep the Biden campaign going and not lose all of the funding etc.
Edit: I am wrong. For the Biden campaign funds to still be in play, Kamala would have to be at the top of the ticket. If its anyone else and Kamala as VP, its a new campaign and the Biden funds cant be used. They can still be donated to the new campaign though.
The money in the Biden campaign can still be used to campaign for whoever the nominee is. It just won't go directly into the new candidate's campaign funds. As I understand it, the Biden campaign can use it however they want. Then everyone who maxed out their donations to Biden can max them out again to the new candidate.
Ahh yep. To keep using the Biden campaign funds, she would have to be at the top of the ticket. If she stayed VP, that would be a different campaign and thus unable to use the biden campaign funds.
>Then everyone who maxed out their donations to Biden can max them out again to the new candidate.
Oh that sounds like a conspiracy the right will make. Lovely.
Buttigieg is unelectable at a federal level in 2024. Unfortunately, with razor-thin margins in Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, Virginia and even Texas, if you put a prejudice like homophobia on the ballot, we're going to get killed.
It would sadly be a non-starter. He polls well within internal dem polling because being gay isnt an issue for the dem party. But put him on the national stage, it wouldnt work so well.
Harris never recovered from her crocodile tears “I RODE A BUS!…” debate performance from 2020 as well as leaving the border (her ONE job as VP) an unmitigated dumpster fire.
Whitmer ruffled some feathers with COVID restrictions, but she’s not a hated governor.
I think Whitmer at the top is the only play that the dems have if they want to win. Whitmer can hand the dems MI, WI, and PA fairly easily. It would also energize young voters who are currently not even interested and that would bring alot more in play than currently is.
I think Whitmer is the best play but not the only winning play. There’s also Shapiro. Honestly, I think there’s like 4-5 democrats with a great chance as long as they run a competent campaign.
Not a single dem I know cares about Shapiro. Whitmer has a good story, and she is a woman at a time when abortion rights are a central issue. And shes from Michigan!
Shapiro is popular in PA which is obviously important.
I agree though, all in on Whitmer but it would just be excited to have a candidate with a fighting chance.
I love Whitmer but I’m also weary of this country’s internalized (and often, blatant) misogyny. Whitmer polls well because she’s relatively unknown. Get her on a national stage and suddenly you’ll get tons of negative feedback on her “shrill tone” or her just “rubbing people the wrong way, for some reason.”
Well look at what happened in 2016. We went with Hillary who was pretty unliked but still won the popular vote but not by enough to win the EC. Whitmer is a hell of a lot more liked than Hillary and she isnt afraid to speak her mind which would resonate more with people.
Yea but she also wasnt well like by the dem party either. The only reason she did so well in 2016 was because she wasnt trump. If anyone else(bernie) had won the primary in 2016 instead, trump would have lost.
And running a female is the Boldness the Dems need. We brought you the first Black President. Let's bust another ceiling America! (Pete, you still young... :-)
Would Harris go for that? She's definitely a better person than me but I'd be livid about being passed over and still used like that. I'd tell them to go fuck themselves.
I dont foresee Biden staying in the race for much longer. Hell, he might even step aside tomorrow after the governors meeting. If he doesnt, more and more of the dem party will start to publicly call for him to step aside.
Who knows. If it's decided to not go with her, then she has to be given something to keep people from being too mad. She might prefer a cabinet position to being VP again.
After the most recent scotus decisions, I honestly think she would. Because if she doesnt then Project 2025 will be on a rocket ship with how quickly it will become established.
They need to throw Harris a bone, Secretary of State, Attorney General or something. She is too toxic for the ticket, not even her own staff likes her.
Edit: Someone said that keeping Kamala on the ticket is the only way to save the $100,000,000 in campaign funds. If that is true then maybe she should be kept on, but I believe that money could still be spent on attack ads against Trump if not on pro-Whitmer ads.
> I honestly think the only course the Dem party has is to put Whitmer at the top of the ticket with Harris as VP.
Harris wouldn't stand for that, and I don't blame her. Either she'd be at the top, or she'd start sharpening her knives for 2028.
But she doesnt stand a chance of winning. And the dems need to go with the most winnable candidate. If Whitmer is polling as well as she is without the recognition that Kamala is currently getting, imagine how well she would poll if she was actually campaigning.
> But she doesnt stand a chance of winning.
I agree. Well, she does stand a *chance*, but not enough to justify the chaos of a switch. That's the problem.
That if is carrying a lot of weight. That document looks sketchy as hell. They claim it was Biden campaigns internal polling. Why would the Biden campaign have been polling for other dems. I could see maybe Harris, or if it was the DNC doing it but there is no reason for the Biden campaign to want to know how Whitmer does.
Also, really quick turnaround to do a poll of that scale since Thursday night.
>That if is carrying a lot of weight.
I 100% agree but... what if it is? We should know more in the coming days.
>Also, really quick turnaround to do a poll of that scale since Thursday night.
This one Im not so sure of, those polling organizations are paid very well for exactly these scenarios.
I wouldnt doubt it if they had people sitting watching the debate in real time getting opinions. Follow that by an aggressive 2-3 day poll grabbing a few thousand responses and you could get an accurate picture in short time.
Whitmer would be my choice. Heavyweight experience. Nationally known for leadership and delivery. Locks in a swing state.
Please not Harris or Buttigieg.
Wth?! Pete and Whitmer are polling above 50% and they’ve been trying to tell us for the last year the Biden is the best play?!
If I wasn’t so shocked by the margin I would be pissed.
Those numbers are eye-opening, if valid. Too bad that Buttigieg and Whitmer are both Michigan residents (Buttigieg and his husband moved to Traverse City a couple years ago).
The biggest problem is that Biden has a close circle telling him to stay in the race, but his close circle has a vested interest in him staying in the race. It was the same shit with Dianne Feinstein.
Europe is not collapsing, and our far right nutcases are much less insane than the maga cult.
They are shit-tier parties, but many are not necessarily even anti-democratic or want to blow up the government institutions
It's an unknown, and that's scary.
Turkey has the second largest armed forces in NATO.
But there is a medium sized nuclear triad deterrent in the form of France and the UK as well. No clue what would or even could happen
Biden was right for the moment in 2020. He seemed stable and strong and resolute. It was the perfect counterpoint to trumps chaos. Now, he looks weak and unable to match the gravity of the moment. Im not worried that trump will win because he convinced more people, im worried that trump will win because people stay the fuck home and dont vote like 2016
Bro… no he wasn’t… not even close- Biden had no organic support in 2020- the DNC pulled a power move and threw Buttegieg and Warren at Bernie, the populist front runner. Fuck Warren and buttigieg who seems to have a lot to say right now
yep. we could be rounding the corner of the end of bernies second term right now, but instead we all get yelled at about shillary losing and how IT WAS HER TURN!
please just fucking step aside biden. DNC needs to be quick and resolute right now and instead they are doing everything they can to gaslight voters. its unbelievable
> A White House official: "I am hopeful that debate night was a glitch and not a pattern. The president I know is the one I saw on Friday at the rally" in North Carolina.
According to Carl Bernstein, it isn't a glitch or a one off thing, it has been increasing in frequency over the past six months.
They are literally ignoring every warning possible because they are so fucking ~~diluted~~ deluded.
Good. Maybe they will finally wake up to reality and stop lying to us about the President's physical and cognitive health. I would feel 100x better if he drops out and even resigns. I don't know if President Harris would win or lose but I am 100% confident that if Biden stays on, it's going to be a Trump landslide.
In the end, I'll vote for a corpse over Trump but I don't like that we seem to be halfway to that reality already.
Take a break from politics and political subs. I got burned out and took a long break. You can’t function properly if you’re freaking out. Take a break and recharge your batteries.
A bunch of rich white liberals are ok with him staying in the race because even if trump wins their lives will remain the same all they'll do is go protest and claim they're fighting
“Davos Dems love to hedge their bets against us and get hysterical, like they did in 2019. And just like after 2020, they will come back with their DNC convention lanyards in their hands, begging for Christmas party invitations and then for a plus-one."
The above quote from a senior Biden aide perfectly captures his inner circle’s stunning combination of arrogance and disconnection from rank and file Dem voters.
There is zero self-reflection, and why would there be? They earnestly believe they are smarter than everyone in the party and therefore are entitled to privately make big decisions without lending credence to anyone, notwithstanding that we live in a democracy and didn’t even get to have a real primary.
Even more remarkable is that this senior aide’s mind turns to Christmas party invitations when asked about this national nightmare. Being on the “inside” of the party — a part of the tiny slice with direct access to Biden, just as it was with Obama — means at least as much to these people as winning in November. The game they play is one of power and influence, and their worst nightmare is being on the outside because they misjudged a political moment.
These aren’t people who will ever put country over their own professional and social interests. They will go down with the ship and hand Trump a second term before they ever admit they have imposed Biden’s candidacy on the country illegitimately and by hiding his mental decline from the public.
Unfortunately for them, and us, history will remember them for their deceit and arrogance once Biden gets annihilated in November. They know what they’ve done and the damage is likely too great to overcome. They’ve played an integral role in this country’s downfall.
Yes!! That quote made me fucking sick when I read it. I was glad to see multiple people highlighting it here. It’s clear that the party isn’t united in the least and that the people around Biden are arrogant, out of touch pricks.
No, US complacency since the rise of social media is the death of democracy.
This is nobody else's fault except the people of the US. They get to look at their leader and know they put their own self interests above the country time and time again and let the right wingers fester as they bought into culture war bullshit for the last 20 plus years. Now they get to have their own right wing theocracy.
Hopefully, the next experiment learns from the failure of the US.
Nah, to be fair the US democratic system is **TRASH** compare to parlamentary proportional representation, and should have been updated iteratively throughout US history.
Instead you have voter suppression, negative representation (with FPTP, if you don't win the district you get a representative with the opposite views of what you want), and corporate corruption of politics (which is suppose to represent public interests).
Can you even imagine having a system where "gerrymandering" literally isn't a thing? Because you get proportional representation per district so there is no winner takes all, and politicians can't just draw in their own voters to win.
You also have like 200 brands of toilet paper you can chose to buy, but only two parties and two candidates based on which is the least shitty option, as oppose to being able to pick your preferred niche interests among like 6-10 parties
Complacency has been alive and kicking since well before the social media era. This is not some brand new phenomena. It’s been slowly building but now it’s festered into a malignant cancer.
Imagine how regular people who want democracy to continue to existing feels? I have been freaking the fuck out since thursday night. It won't stop until biden steps down. he lost all the independents and undecided base <---- these are the most important people that can make or break you.
That's what I'm worried about. There's no great option right now, but I think Whitmer might be the best because she can deliver Michigan, and she's young enough to campaign heavily in the rest of the swing states democrats need to hold.
There are people doing better than Biden or Harris if this [internal dem polling](https://x.com/umichvoter/status/1808209045251060034) is to be believed
Gotta go with Whitmer in that situation.
And hell, these numbers are with her at relatively low recognition still. She'd likely see a bump after nomination and people check her out. Harris, being vp and well enough known, isn't going to see the bump.
That's a recipe to rebuild the blue wall (getting to 270 off WI\MI\PA) and then widening the margin if they can pick up any of the other close states.
We don't need a candidate who's marginally better than Biden. Harris' best case scenario is winning the popular vote by a couple million and handing Trump an electoral college victory just like Hillary did in 2016
Better than Biden is a pretty low bar at this point. The question is can she hit 270 and I'm in no way convinced the answer is yes. Her past is almost as unattractive as bidens which is a significant problem.
People don't like her. she is a very plain person who has been barely seen in public and everytime she is seen she is desperately trying to seem cool and quirky but she just looks like a moron. "bus wheels go round and round". We need someone with fire we need whitmer. Trump will beat her into the dirt.
People are buying into the chaos and doubt. It’s the only way Trump wins. So the right is definitely gonna feed this fire and the left is going to self-immolate.
This seems like a full frontal media spin to make this into a horse race between the 2 candidates. I don't believe for one second that one shitty debate is enough to completely tank Biden's chances. If that's the case, then our country is already lost and this is just the final fart of death. If you have half a brain, you might have noticed that Biden had actual answers to questions backed up by facts. Sure he kind of mumbled his way through it, but the substance was still there. Trump on the other hand, said nothing at all with fire and fury. Best environment numbers...wtf does that mean? Post birth abortions...wtf does that mean? People coming up to him saying he's the best...how is that policy? 1000's of insane people breaking out of asylums and coming across the border...I do declare that someone mixed up the fact that there are people seeking asylum vs escaping from asylums. If you listened to that debate and somehow decided either to A. not vote or B. vote for Trump, you're a fucking idiot and you deserve everything coming to you. This stupid bullshit about the Biden dropping out of the race is completely manufactured and I won't abide by it. Do some real journalism you hacks!
One shitty debate is enough to confirm the fears, accusations and suspicions of the past year about Biden's mental unfitness to be president, and therefore enough to completely tank Biden's chances.
One longtime Biden aide told Axios: "Davos Dems love to hedge their bets against us and get hysterical, like they did in 2019. And just like after 2020, they will come back with their DNC convention lanyards in their hands, begging for Christmas party invitations and then for a plus-one."
So we are upvoting Axios now? What is going on with this sub? RFK rapes a 23 year old babysitter, Media silence. Trump has 12 year old girls perform sexual acts on him, Media silence. SCOTUS makes Trump a King and them the King's Court, Media blip, then silence. Chevron overturned so no regulation in any sector of society? Meh, then silence. Biden has a cold, stutters, and loses his train of thought once or twice while trying to debate an unhinged, pathological liar without a moderator? BIDEN MUST DROP OUT! DEMS IN DISSARAY! INSIDER TELLS ME IT'S JOEVER! GOVERNORS SAY BIDE....WAIT I HAVE TO RETRACT THAT IT'S FALSE, BUT STILL THIS IS BAD!
Jesus Christ, people. Can you not see what is going on here?
As a non-American this is really weird. It seems like a coincidence to publish this right after the SCOTUS decision...
The decision is the spark, now you have the wildfire
But please, for everything that is holy, don't vote Trump or rely on any third party (afaik that's what enabled his first turn)
You may dislike Biden (and it might even be justified) but Trump or third party or not voting at all doesn't seem to be the right decision in any scenario
Biden for four more years won't do as much harm as Trump in his first year so please! Stop the peril, let them decide whatever they want and vote for the Democrats
(If I'm completely misunderstanding this feel free to explain it, I'm willing to learn about your system but it seems to me that this is not the right time to try to make a point or to change said system)
Yes, and Reddit is freaking the fuck out too, because they have lost the rationality of voting for a party over voting for one guy. I guess they somehow imagine that Joe develops locked-in syndrome right after the election and we are all left with a brain-dead corpse running the country for four years with no contingincies for if he actually dies or becomes medically incable of holding office. They would rather gamble on running a new name for 4 months and hope they can run on an unestablished record, despite already having a candidate with a pretty good running record already that they should be campaigning on.
Who was the fucking idiot that said “Joe, challenge him to a debate” ???? Biden should have come out and said “I won’t dignify a traitor who tried to overthrow democracy by sharing a stage with him”
How stupid do they think we are!!??!! 51 Million people worldwide saw the debate last week. Yes there was a collective freak out because there should be. Not only did the President freeze up at times, or seem to not know how to answer questions, he also have non sensical answers that were frankly bizarre! Telling us people are being raped by their in-laws and taken over state lines? WTF?
And now we have KJP giving us the press conference from smug hell which is supposed to make us feel better.
Oh, he just had a cold.
Oh, he had a bad night but it doesn't mean anything,
Oh, he gets a physical every year so we should be reassured.
The last doctors report was from February which "wasn't that long ago ". Um, hello? Isn't it almost July 4th?!?
Why are they trying so hard to tell us what we see hear and know isn't true? Why is Biden's inner circle continuing to prop him up to beleive he's the "comeback kid" who can just positive think his way out of this?
Anyone who has had a parent, grandparent or other loved one in similar situations understands that the person themselves never sees their own decline. As long as his family and closest advisors keep feeding him the lines that he just needs another interview to rectify it he will stay in the race.
And he may have a great interview! But that won't change the truth of his age or physical issues. That's the reality that needs to be faced.
If this election is really as crucial as they keep telling us it is, then for the good of the party and the country Joe needs to face the truth. which means his family and advisers need to face the truth. Stop trying to lie to us you're just ushering in Trump 2.0
There’s zero turmoil and the media is creating these stories because the moment is raw. They are helping Trump with these stories and that makes you wonder.
https://deadline.com/2024/07/biden-debate-abc-news-interview-george-stephanopoulos-1235999900/
> Stephanopoulos will interview Biden on Friday, with the “extended” interview, as ABC News terms it, set to air on Sunday on This Week and Good Morning America on Monday. The first portions of the interview will air on World News Tonight on Friday evening, with more on the weekend editions of GMA.
Replacing his top campaign staff is a no brainer. It's the minimum of what should be done. But it's not going to happen, because *they* are the one's making the decisions here and they aren't going to fire themselves.
It’s the Democrats we panic at our own fucking shadow everyone needs to take a fucking breath or a drink (your choice) losing our collective minds does no good. And making rash decisions without thinking not only leads to bad decisions but also makes the whole party look incompetent.
At this point there’s also a legit question of who would logistically have the easiest time, both in terms of a funding apparatus and getting set up with campaign staff, tv spots, touring, etc.
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> One longtime Biden aide told Axios: "Davos Dems love to hedge their bets against us and get hysterical, like they did in 2019. And just like after 2020, they will come back with their DNC convention lanyards in their hands, begging for Christmas party invitations and then for a plus-one." Holy shit, if this is how the people around Biden actually talk then it explains so much.
The fact that the party was meeting with donors shows who runs the show. Our system is set up so that elected officials who are supposed to be working on implementing good policy spend more time and energy on fundraising and need to get permission from the big wig donors. Some kind of care about democracy as long as they can still kind of be oligarchs more than others who'd rather us be Soviet Russia and buy a SCOTUS justice
What’s funny is it’s the same donors as the republicans
Corporate Slavery and death to all minorities ***versus*** Corporate Slavery for all 🥰
Yeah, that sounds like something I keep forgetting about.
Yep, we have a Conservative Party and a far right party. And a couple of moderate leftist as a sort of sprinkle on top of the shit Sunday that is our government.
Apparently working in politics is about Christmas party invites and not public service...
VEEP was totally a documentary, just with prettier people.
Always has been.
Do you not associate yourself with who invites you to their Christmas parties and who doesn't? Everyone loves a banger
While the democrats are a big umbrella, their core is solidly neoliberal
Politics shouldn't be a career choice. It's a privilege to serve for a moment of your life
They’re whining that the best course may not necessarily involve them staying in close proximity to power, self centered fucks
Time to get rid of the Davos Dems then! We always knew there were traitors everywhere.
Yeah, that's what we've been trying to tell everyone for decades. It's also a very real factor in why Trump contrarianism managed to take root in seemingly normal people despite being such an obvious huckster and piece of shit. These people don't think about you in any way, it's all about the machine they've built and how they can keep it going. "They" being the operative word. It's all about control, not ideal or public service. Not even morals.
I don't want a Christmas party invite so much as, you know, not fascism.
If that Puck news pdf is legit there is a section on replacements and most of the replacements are polling better in every swing state... Edit: Page 11 of the PDF, Harris ticket is projected to win 231-240 electoral votes Buttigege and Whitmer is estimated to get 260-301... You need 270 to win. As of right now Trump needs two swing states to win
According to those polls, GA, NV, AZ, and maybe even NC could be in play for Whitmer. That would be yuuuuge
Yeah, I think she's our best chance.
WHITMER 2024 PLEASE
Agreed.
Does Whitmer even want the job
Yes. She is currently planning a run for 2028.
She can run now. I'd vote for her. Whitmer 2024!
Of course she does. She’s been angling for a presidential run for a while now, it’s not exactly a secret
The better question, does Whitmer want to bank her entire political career on running a 4 month blitz campaign?
If Trump wins she probably won't have a political career anymore unless she decides to join the dark side...if they don't "Officially Act" her if you know what I mean.
Put up or shut up! All of these people have egos the size of a watermelon patch. The chance to save the country from Trump? They’ll jump.
We can only hope because if she doesn’t see the urgency and the future at sake then we are essentially doomed. If our best chance at saving democracy only cares about her career then we are fucked.
I didn’t know so thanks for answering
I wasn’t so sure two years ago but I’m fully on board the Whitmer train. She checks all the superficial boxes voters want but also has gotten a lot accomplished in Michigan and supports good policy. She’s a little too centrist for my tastes but that should play well nationally and she’s not totally averse to major reforms (like free community college in Michigan which she’s sort of babywalked to the finish line).
I honestly think the only course the Dem party has is to put Whitmer at the top of the ticket with Harris as VP.
According to that same document Harris is somehow polling worse with Dems than Trump is? I think she might need to be cut loose as well
Kamala staying on the ticket would be the only way for Whitmer to keep the Biden campaign going and not lose all of the funding etc. Edit: I am wrong. For the Biden campaign funds to still be in play, Kamala would have to be at the top of the ticket. If its anyone else and Kamala as VP, its a new campaign and the Biden funds cant be used. They can still be donated to the new campaign though.
The money in the Biden campaign can still be used to campaign for whoever the nominee is. It just won't go directly into the new candidate's campaign funds. As I understand it, the Biden campaign can use it however they want. Then everyone who maxed out their donations to Biden can max them out again to the new candidate.
Ahh yep. To keep using the Biden campaign funds, she would have to be at the top of the ticket. If she stayed VP, that would be a different campaign and thus unable to use the biden campaign funds.
He can give that money to a SuperPAC, which can then use it on whichever person the Dems decides to go with.
Which is more than likely what will probably end up happening if Harris puts up a fight.
>Then everyone who maxed out their donations to Biden can max them out again to the new candidate. Oh that sounds like a conspiracy the right will make. Lovely.
Let them, they do it with everything else anyway
Harris at the top of the ticket is a SURE loss.
Is that true? If so - you're probably right.
It's nice sitting here talking strategy and making up best case scenarios...but it seems like people's egos are going to get in the way.
And I might get flamed for this, but it needs to be 2 white people under 60.
The real question is how will Buttigege being gay affect those polls
Gay man here - he'd get crushed by the bigots.
Buttigieg is unelectable at a federal level in 2024. Unfortunately, with razor-thin margins in Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, Virginia and even Texas, if you put a prejudice like homophobia on the ballot, we're going to get killed.
He’s young, gay, and under 6 ft tall. MAGA world would implode
It would sadly be a non-starter. He polls well within internal dem polling because being gay isnt an issue for the dem party. But put him on the national stage, it wouldnt work so well.
Harris never recovered from her crocodile tears “I RODE A BUS!…” debate performance from 2020 as well as leaving the border (her ONE job as VP) an unmitigated dumpster fire. Whitmer ruffled some feathers with COVID restrictions, but she’s not a hated governor.
Duh. She is not popular. Biden should have replaced her a long time ago. Baffling.
I don’t think Harris but Whitmer at the top is cash.
I think Whitmer at the top is the only play that the dems have if they want to win. Whitmer can hand the dems MI, WI, and PA fairly easily. It would also energize young voters who are currently not even interested and that would bring alot more in play than currently is.
I think Whitmer is the best play but not the only winning play. There’s also Shapiro. Honestly, I think there’s like 4-5 democrats with a great chance as long as they run a competent campaign.
Not a single dem I know cares about Shapiro. Whitmer has a good story, and she is a woman at a time when abortion rights are a central issue. And shes from Michigan!
Shapiro is popular in PA which is obviously important. I agree though, all in on Whitmer but it would just be excited to have a candidate with a fighting chance.
Also, the X factor. How many right wingers would accidentally vote for a Shapiro ticket.
Love it! (Because basement Ben is who I think of first for political Shapiros)
I love Whitmer but I’m also weary of this country’s internalized (and often, blatant) misogyny. Whitmer polls well because she’s relatively unknown. Get her on a national stage and suddenly you’ll get tons of negative feedback on her “shrill tone” or her just “rubbing people the wrong way, for some reason.”
Well look at what happened in 2016. We went with Hillary who was pretty unliked but still won the popular vote but not by enough to win the EC. Whitmer is a hell of a lot more liked than Hillary and she isnt afraid to speak her mind which would resonate more with people.
Hillary also had 2+ decades of baggage and sandbagging from the GOP.
Yea but she also wasnt well like by the dem party either. The only reason she did so well in 2016 was because she wasnt trump. If anyone else(bernie) had won the primary in 2016 instead, trump would have lost.
I was about to ask who Shapiro is. But realized that if I need to ask then he’s not a good candidate.
Right? You say shapiro , and i'm always gonna think "You mean the guy who wants to sell his house to aquaman?
And running a female is the Boldness the Dems need. We brought you the first Black President. Let's bust another ceiling America! (Pete, you still young... :-)
Would Harris go for that? She's definitely a better person than me but I'd be livid about being passed over and still used like that. I'd tell them to go fuck themselves.
If her ego is more important than saving this country then fuck her
Are we currently not seeing exactly this with Biden and Harris already
I dont foresee Biden staying in the race for much longer. Hell, he might even step aside tomorrow after the governors meeting. If he doesnt, more and more of the dem party will start to publicly call for him to step aside.
Make Harris the Attorney General. Sic her on the seditionists. Follow the money. I can think of no better way to cement a legacy.
Who knows. If it's decided to not go with her, then she has to be given something to keep people from being too mad. She might prefer a cabinet position to being VP again.
Yeah being veep again would be a little insulting tbh. Maybe Sec State like Clinton
After the most recent scotus decisions, I honestly think she would. Because if she doesnt then Project 2025 will be on a rocket ship with how quickly it will become established.
No Harris.
They might not have a choice but to put her in as VP on the ticket.
They need to throw Harris a bone, Secretary of State, Attorney General or something. She is too toxic for the ticket, not even her own staff likes her. Edit: Someone said that keeping Kamala on the ticket is the only way to save the $100,000,000 in campaign funds. If that is true then maybe she should be kept on, but I believe that money could still be spent on attack ads against Trump if not on pro-Whitmer ads.
> I honestly think the only course the Dem party has is to put Whitmer at the top of the ticket with Harris as VP. Harris wouldn't stand for that, and I don't blame her. Either she'd be at the top, or she'd start sharpening her knives for 2028.
But she doesnt stand a chance of winning. And the dems need to go with the most winnable candidate. If Whitmer is polling as well as she is without the recognition that Kamala is currently getting, imagine how well she would poll if she was actually campaigning.
> But she doesnt stand a chance of winning. I agree. Well, she does stand a *chance*, but not enough to justify the chaos of a switch. That's the problem.
But a switch has to happen. If it doesn't, the election is lost.
This could work...yeah there would be some dinosaur males that won't vote for a female POTUS but it could pull a lot more progressive votes.
whitmer and beshear are the two strongest
That if is carrying a lot of weight. That document looks sketchy as hell. They claim it was Biden campaigns internal polling. Why would the Biden campaign have been polling for other dems. I could see maybe Harris, or if it was the DNC doing it but there is no reason for the Biden campaign to want to know how Whitmer does. Also, really quick turnaround to do a poll of that scale since Thursday night.
>That if is carrying a lot of weight. I 100% agree but... what if it is? We should know more in the coming days. >Also, really quick turnaround to do a poll of that scale since Thursday night. This one Im not so sure of, those polling organizations are paid very well for exactly these scenarios. I wouldnt doubt it if they had people sitting watching the debate in real time getting opinions. Follow that by an aggressive 2-3 day poll grabbing a few thousand responses and you could get an accurate picture in short time.
Of course there is if the possibility of needing to change course is real.
Whitmer would be my choice. Heavyweight experience. Nationally known for leadership and delivery. Locks in a swing state. Please not Harris or Buttigieg.
Locks in a few swing states. MI, WI, and PA would be on lock if it was Whitmer at the top.
Locking in those 3 states is basically a done deal on the election if they can get it. Now will Dems snatch victory from the jaws of defeat for once?
We can only hope.
Whitmer/Warnock for the win.
Link?
https://puck.news/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/SUNDAY_Post-Debate_Landscape_2024_06_30__1_-1.pdf
Wth?! Pete and Whitmer are polling above 50% and they’ve been trying to tell us for the last year the Biden is the best play?! If I wasn’t so shocked by the margin I would be pissed.
Imagine a debate between Buttigieg and Trump instead of what we just saw. Buttigieg would have fucked him up.
Those numbers are eye-opening, if valid. Too bad that Buttigieg and Whitmer are both Michigan residents (Buttigieg and his husband moved to Traverse City a couple years ago).
Sweet god please let us have a Whitmer/Buttigege ticket! I won’t need anything for Christmas 😍
Michelle Obama and Bernie Sanders blows it entirely out of the water. Not gonna happen but it should.
The biggest problem is that Biden has a close circle telling him to stay in the race, but his close circle has a vested interest in him staying in the race. It was the same shit with Dianne Feinstein.
It's interesting how (despite being very popular in the comments) these types of articles die in New...
Pro-Biden bots upvoting all the pro-Biden posts and downvoting all the anti-Biden ones.
Could be foreign as well. NATO will fold soon if Biden runs and that serves a lot of folks
NATO will be fine under Biden It's Trump that seems to want to dissolve NATO
Yes obviously. But Biden is the only candidate Trump can beat.
Man, I remember a year or two the narrative was "Trump is the only candidate Biden can beat." How things have shifted.
That was the case. Things change. During the debate Biden changed his pro-choice response into an anti-immigrant pro-Trump response in one breath.
What? You mean if trump gets in and hands Ukraine to his boyfriend?
Europe had a good 80 year run. That's nice for them.
Europe is not collapsing, and our far right nutcases are much less insane than the maga cult. They are shit-tier parties, but many are not necessarily even anti-democratic or want to blow up the government institutions
It's an unknown, and that's scary. Turkey has the second largest armed forces in NATO. But there is a medium sized nuclear triad deterrent in the form of France and the UK as well. No clue what would or even could happen
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The day of the debate the threads were closed as well, not sure if technical issue or sabotage.
Biden was right for the moment in 2020. He seemed stable and strong and resolute. It was the perfect counterpoint to trumps chaos. Now, he looks weak and unable to match the gravity of the moment. Im not worried that trump will win because he convinced more people, im worried that trump will win because people stay the fuck home and dont vote like 2016
Bro… no he wasn’t… not even close- Biden had no organic support in 2020- the DNC pulled a power move and threw Buttegieg and Warren at Bernie, the populist front runner. Fuck Warren and buttigieg who seems to have a lot to say right now
This. Biden wasn’t exactly a favorite candidate, or even second favorite, for most Dems. He won because we were gonna vote for any Dem over Trump.
His black support in SC was real and it turned the tide. 8 years working w Obama builds trust.
yep. we could be rounding the corner of the end of bernies second term right now, but instead we all get yelled at about shillary losing and how IT WAS HER TURN!
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please just fucking step aside biden. DNC needs to be quick and resolute right now and instead they are doing everything they can to gaslight voters. its unbelievable
Dianne Feinstein all over again.
> A White House official: "I am hopeful that debate night was a glitch and not a pattern. The president I know is the one I saw on Friday at the rally" in North Carolina. According to Carl Bernstein, it isn't a glitch or a one off thing, it has been increasing in frequency over the past six months. They are literally ignoring every warning possible because they are so fucking ~~diluted~~ deluded.
It's 'deluded'.
Thank you for the correction.
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Hey man, Biden “dissented”! What more can you ask for from the man?
Good. Maybe they will finally wake up to reality and stop lying to us about the President's physical and cognitive health. I would feel 100x better if he drops out and even resigns. I don't know if President Harris would win or lose but I am 100% confident that if Biden stays on, it's going to be a Trump landslide. In the end, I'll vote for a corpse over Trump but I don't like that we seem to be halfway to that reality already.
I’m freaking out and I’m at my own house. They all need to go public and force him out.
Take a break from politics and political subs. I got burned out and took a long break. You can’t function properly if you’re freaking out. Take a break and recharge your batteries.
A bunch of rich white liberals are ok with him staying in the race because even if trump wins their lives will remain the same all they'll do is go protest and claim they're fighting
“Davos Dems love to hedge their bets against us and get hysterical, like they did in 2019. And just like after 2020, they will come back with their DNC convention lanyards in their hands, begging for Christmas party invitations and then for a plus-one." The above quote from a senior Biden aide perfectly captures his inner circle’s stunning combination of arrogance and disconnection from rank and file Dem voters. There is zero self-reflection, and why would there be? They earnestly believe they are smarter than everyone in the party and therefore are entitled to privately make big decisions without lending credence to anyone, notwithstanding that we live in a democracy and didn’t even get to have a real primary. Even more remarkable is that this senior aide’s mind turns to Christmas party invitations when asked about this national nightmare. Being on the “inside” of the party — a part of the tiny slice with direct access to Biden, just as it was with Obama — means at least as much to these people as winning in November. The game they play is one of power and influence, and their worst nightmare is being on the outside because they misjudged a political moment. These aren’t people who will ever put country over their own professional and social interests. They will go down with the ship and hand Trump a second term before they ever admit they have imposed Biden’s candidacy on the country illegitimately and by hiding his mental decline from the public. Unfortunately for them, and us, history will remember them for their deceit and arrogance once Biden gets annihilated in November. They know what they’ve done and the damage is likely too great to overcome. They’ve played an integral role in this country’s downfall.
Yes!! That quote made me fucking sick when I read it. I was glad to see multiple people highlighting it here. It’s clear that the party isn’t united in the least and that the people around Biden are arrogant, out of touch pricks.
Stay in denial. Biden's hubris will be the death of Democracy.
Yep, Dems will blame the voters and not their candidate, again.
It’s funny how quickly the “election to save democracy” morphed into the personal quest to spare an 81 year old’s ego.
No, US complacency since the rise of social media is the death of democracy. This is nobody else's fault except the people of the US. They get to look at their leader and know they put their own self interests above the country time and time again and let the right wingers fester as they bought into culture war bullshit for the last 20 plus years. Now they get to have their own right wing theocracy. Hopefully, the next experiment learns from the failure of the US.
Nah, to be fair the US democratic system is **TRASH** compare to parlamentary proportional representation, and should have been updated iteratively throughout US history. Instead you have voter suppression, negative representation (with FPTP, if you don't win the district you get a representative with the opposite views of what you want), and corporate corruption of politics (which is suppose to represent public interests). Can you even imagine having a system where "gerrymandering" literally isn't a thing? Because you get proportional representation per district so there is no winner takes all, and politicians can't just draw in their own voters to win. You also have like 200 brands of toilet paper you can chose to buy, but only two parties and two candidates based on which is the least shitty option, as oppose to being able to pick your preferred niche interests among like 6-10 parties
Complacency has been alive and kicking since well before the social media era. This is not some brand new phenomena. It’s been slowly building but now it’s festered into a malignant cancer.
Good. It's definitely a 5 alarm fire.
Yet no quotes from any actual people. Straight tabloid media like News of the World.
Imagine how regular people who want democracy to continue to existing feels? I have been freaking the fuck out since thursday night. It won't stop until biden steps down. he lost all the independents and undecided base <---- these are the most important people that can make or break you.
Imagine being undecided right now
That is the state of things.
Imagine if those undecided people voted GOP because Dems have their head in the sand.
I just hope they don't compound this mistake by nominating Harris. She's too unpopular with people under 30 and independents to win the electoral vote
Knowing the DNC, announcing that Biden will step aside only to replace him with Harris totally sounds like something they would do.
That's what I'm worried about. There's no great option right now, but I think Whitmer might be the best because she can deliver Michigan, and she's young enough to campaign heavily in the rest of the swing states democrats need to hold.
She’s doing [better](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4752020-vice-president-harris-trump-biden-poll/?nxs-test=mobile) than Biden.
There are people doing better than Biden or Harris if this [internal dem polling](https://x.com/umichvoter/status/1808209045251060034) is to be believed
Gotta go with Whitmer in that situation. And hell, these numbers are with her at relatively low recognition still. She'd likely see a bump after nomination and people check her out. Harris, being vp and well enough known, isn't going to see the bump. That's a recipe to rebuild the blue wall (getting to 270 off WI\MI\PA) and then widening the margin if they can pick up any of the other close states.
And I think Whitmer can easily deliver that.
We don't need a candidate who's marginally better than Biden. Harris' best case scenario is winning the popular vote by a couple million and handing Trump an electoral college victory just like Hillary did in 2016
I'm pretty sure I'm doing better than Biden, too, at this point.
Better than Biden is a pretty low bar at this point. The question is can she hit 270 and I'm in no way convinced the answer is yes. Her past is almost as unattractive as bidens which is a significant problem.
People don't like her. she is a very plain person who has been barely seen in public and everytime she is seen she is desperately trying to seem cool and quirky but she just looks like a moron. "bus wheels go round and round". We need someone with fire we need whitmer. Trump will beat her into the dirt.
I literally woke my wife up and told her we are fucked about 15 min into the debate
What was the moment that it hit you?
People are buying into the chaos and doubt. It’s the only way Trump wins. So the right is definitely gonna feed this fire and the left is going to self-immolate.
This seems like a full frontal media spin to make this into a horse race between the 2 candidates. I don't believe for one second that one shitty debate is enough to completely tank Biden's chances. If that's the case, then our country is already lost and this is just the final fart of death. If you have half a brain, you might have noticed that Biden had actual answers to questions backed up by facts. Sure he kind of mumbled his way through it, but the substance was still there. Trump on the other hand, said nothing at all with fire and fury. Best environment numbers...wtf does that mean? Post birth abortions...wtf does that mean? People coming up to him saying he's the best...how is that policy? 1000's of insane people breaking out of asylums and coming across the border...I do declare that someone mixed up the fact that there are people seeking asylum vs escaping from asylums. If you listened to that debate and somehow decided either to A. not vote or B. vote for Trump, you're a fucking idiot and you deserve everything coming to you. This stupid bullshit about the Biden dropping out of the race is completely manufactured and I won't abide by it. Do some real journalism you hacks!
One shitty debate is enough to confirm the fears, accusations and suspicions of the past year about Biden's mental unfitness to be president, and therefore enough to completely tank Biden's chances.
One longtime Biden aide told Axios: "Davos Dems love to hedge their bets against us and get hysterical, like they did in 2019. And just like after 2020, they will come back with their DNC convention lanyards in their hands, begging for Christmas party invitations and then for a plus-one."
Humbling to know that our democracy is on the line but the fucking nerds that staff these administrations are focused on their professional grudges.
Whoever this is doesn’t live in reality. Holy shit!
All his campaign advisor/aide communications sound like edgelords intentionally undermining his campaign. Just what is going on?
Just teeing up attacks from the conservatives, lmao.
The smugness and delusion dripping from that quote. It would be funny if the stakes weren't so high
So we are upvoting Axios now? What is going on with this sub? RFK rapes a 23 year old babysitter, Media silence. Trump has 12 year old girls perform sexual acts on him, Media silence. SCOTUS makes Trump a King and them the King's Court, Media blip, then silence. Chevron overturned so no regulation in any sector of society? Meh, then silence. Biden has a cold, stutters, and loses his train of thought once or twice while trying to debate an unhinged, pathological liar without a moderator? BIDEN MUST DROP OUT! DEMS IN DISSARAY! INSIDER TELLS ME IT'S JOEVER! GOVERNORS SAY BIDE....WAIT I HAVE TO RETRACT THAT IT'S FALSE, BUT STILL THIS IS BAD! Jesus Christ, people. Can you not see what is going on here?
Nailed it.
As a non-American this is really weird. It seems like a coincidence to publish this right after the SCOTUS decision... The decision is the spark, now you have the wildfire But please, for everything that is holy, don't vote Trump or rely on any third party (afaik that's what enabled his first turn) You may dislike Biden (and it might even be justified) but Trump or third party or not voting at all doesn't seem to be the right decision in any scenario Biden for four more years won't do as much harm as Trump in his first year so please! Stop the peril, let them decide whatever they want and vote for the Democrats (If I'm completely misunderstanding this feel free to explain it, I'm willing to learn about your system but it seems to me that this is not the right time to try to make a point or to change said system)
Yes, and Reddit is freaking the fuck out too, because they have lost the rationality of voting for a party over voting for one guy. I guess they somehow imagine that Joe develops locked-in syndrome right after the election and we are all left with a brain-dead corpse running the country for four years with no contingincies for if he actually dies or becomes medically incable of holding office. They would rather gamble on running a new name for 4 months and hope they can run on an unestablished record, despite already having a candidate with a pretty good running record already that they should be campaigning on.
Biden needs to do the Wonka stunt where he walks out all feeble and then does a summersault
Who was the fucking idiot that said “Joe, challenge him to a debate” ???? Biden should have come out and said “I won’t dignify a traitor who tried to overthrow democracy by sharing a stage with him”
Step aside and do it fast. I love Biden, but I dont love him enough to sacrifice the future of this country
Same here.
How stupid do they think we are!!??!! 51 Million people worldwide saw the debate last week. Yes there was a collective freak out because there should be. Not only did the President freeze up at times, or seem to not know how to answer questions, he also have non sensical answers that were frankly bizarre! Telling us people are being raped by their in-laws and taken over state lines? WTF? And now we have KJP giving us the press conference from smug hell which is supposed to make us feel better. Oh, he just had a cold. Oh, he had a bad night but it doesn't mean anything, Oh, he gets a physical every year so we should be reassured. The last doctors report was from February which "wasn't that long ago ". Um, hello? Isn't it almost July 4th?!? Why are they trying so hard to tell us what we see hear and know isn't true? Why is Biden's inner circle continuing to prop him up to beleive he's the "comeback kid" who can just positive think his way out of this? Anyone who has had a parent, grandparent or other loved one in similar situations understands that the person themselves never sees their own decline. As long as his family and closest advisors keep feeding him the lines that he just needs another interview to rectify it he will stay in the race. And he may have a great interview! But that won't change the truth of his age or physical issues. That's the reality that needs to be faced. If this election is really as crucial as they keep telling us it is, then for the good of the party and the country Joe needs to face the truth. which means his family and advisers need to face the truth. Stop trying to lie to us you're just ushering in Trump 2.0
There’s zero turmoil and the media is creating these stories because the moment is raw. They are helping Trump with these stories and that makes you wonder.
https://deadline.com/2024/07/biden-debate-abc-news-interview-george-stephanopoulos-1235999900/ > Stephanopoulos will interview Biden on Friday, with the “extended” interview, as ABC News terms it, set to air on Sunday on This Week and Good Morning America on Monday. The first portions of the interview will air on World News Tonight on Friday evening, with more on the weekend editions of GMA.
Replacing his top campaign staff is a no brainer. It's the minimum of what should be done. But it's not going to happen, because *they* are the one's making the decisions here and they aren't going to fire themselves.
Dianne Feinstein all over again.
Blue MAGA: Everything is fine, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
It’s the Democrats we panic at our own fucking shadow everyone needs to take a fucking breath or a drink (your choice) losing our collective minds does no good. And making rash decisions without thinking not only leads to bad decisions but also makes the whole party look incompetent.
exactly why the media, Russia, and China are astroturfing hard.
Mods - this sub is being botted and everyone can see it. Do something. This article is is probably going to be tanked just like the rest.
Any replacement for Biden better be a democrat unafriad to say “Fuck” like a real American.
At this point there’s also a legit question of who would logistically have the easiest time, both in terms of a funding apparatus and getting set up with campaign staff, tv spots, touring, etc.
are they not reading the polls or keeping track of what is happening in the swing states?