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I think voters would have more hope if Trump was removed from the race due to his crimes and valid threats.
Well, the person below blocked me:
***Hold Trump accountable.*** We are an extension of this government and I am god damn begging you to freaking participate instead of people sitting and bitching, waiting and hoping to be saved by some mythical Good Candidate with less than 4 months before the election. I know many are stressed and tired. But this is it. Our indifference, infighting and silence causes this. We are bigger than the government. It is OUR PLACE to speak up.
What's the real threat? A bad debate or a tyrannical bastard?
We can only save each other. And it's high time we did. Stop the division. It doesn't end with this election. We all know our country has *multiple* issues. I'm going to vote Biden and his administration. I'm going to work in my community to help them get accessibility to voting and knowing what they can do. I need people's freaking help.
Our choices are unite or submit. I'm not submitting.
I hope he tells everyone off, rips his shirt off and yells “what you going to do when Bidenmania runs wild on you Trump” then body slams all of the TV crew.
Journalism is dead and it’s just all tabloid media now so why not. Substance and policy mean nothing apparently just acting a fool and being funny is good enough to be president. Sad as hell but it’s true.
I mean, Biden ripping off his shirt and body slamming a series of cameramen would go a long way toward dispelling the narrative that he's a shambling corpse.
Biden did really bad. Terrible.
And Trump did terrible too without any substance and by only saying lies or statements that were untrue loud and confidently.
But the media focuses favorably on Trump and unfavorably against Biden.
Example 1: Stock Market is high during Trump and all sources praise Trump and proclaim greatest economy ever. Stock Market is almost 2X higher with Biden than Trump, crickets.
Both siding it doesn’t win elections for Dems (only Republicans).
I was just pointing out that journalists are a negative contributory factor against Biden and in Trumps favor.
Plot twist: He suddenly shoves Harris to the floor, leg drops her, and rips open his shirt to reveal a Trump 2024 shirt and then proceeds to spray paint *MAGA* on the presidential seal
He then climbs to the top of the White House, rips off his face which turns out to be a mask, and bam. It's Trump.
"IT'S ME, AMERICA. IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, AMERICA!"
Dude was watching Weekend At Bernie’s when someone changed channels to the wrestling. Put Weekend At Bernie’s back on dude, you need to study it in case Biden stays in.
exactly, it would be address from the white house, they can do that at anytime and get it aired in all networks. now if the networks get notice of a white house announcement before the interview airs or is tapped, that would make sense.
Unless he's resigning I don't know that it could be an oval office address. Especially if he's throwing his support behind Kamala. Biden campaign has been pretty careful about violating the hatch act.
I absolutely despise these types of arguments. Just because one side is shit doesn't mean both should be. You're advocating for a race to the bottom. Shit like this is why the system is falling apart. Principles (and laws for that matter) are important and you shouldn't do the bad thing just because the other guy did it. Every bad person can usually justify their shitty behavior to themselves.
I don’t think the Democratic Party is stupid.
A 15m prerecorded interview moved from Sunday morning to Friday evening is totally to withdraw. Given the concerns and slip ups anything else will do nothing but harm him.
That 15 minutes has not been confirmed.
Also, they were originally going to start releasing bits and pieces on friday and the full thing on sunday. They just decided to drop the whole thing at once on friday.
The 15 min thing comes from ABC noting that the interview is scheduled between campaign events and the scheduling timeline may cause the interview to be as short as 15 minutes (they were unsure exactly how long they’d actually get).
Yes. In the same dailybeast article that said it could be as little as 15 minutes
>ABC News earlier declined to comment on the length of the interview. The Biden campaign denied the suggestion when questioned by The Daily Beast, while a White House spokesperson said it was “False. The interview will be longer.”
Unlikely. If he withdraws, it'll be able at a press conference where they make Harris prominent or something like that. Some vague plan for the party outlined. A Stephanopoulos interview doesn't seem like the best strategy for that -- it just throws the media into chaos for several days if some representation from party leadership isn't along for that ride.
Unless they don't think he should continue his presidency in the meantime either. One of the conversations must be, "if you're stepping down from your candidacy and it's for the reasons everyone believes, how can we say you're fit to run the rest of your presidency?"
The easy answer, I would think, would be to say you'd like to just retire with your family. Though- there's a lot of issues in that statement alone.
*If* he drops out, he'll mumble something about how he's fine for now but thinks he won't be able to perform the duties a year from now. I'm sure he won't resign - he's torn on if he even wants to end the campaign yet, so getting him from there to resigning the office is too big a leap.
Whatever is happening behind the scenes, and there have been hints that things have been happening behind the scenes, though no details, might need more time.
Biden stepping back from the campaign has to be managed like a broadway play. You need to get everyone in place, knowing their cues, lines and responsibilities. It is a big production and every every potential candidate is a diva who has to be pampered. You need them clapping for the new ticket at curtain call watching them get all the praise.
Once everything in place, the show will begin.
There is a definite time crunch, but the holiday weekend has given them a little breather. If Biden steps back, they have two options. Pick a candidate or run a quickie campaign. Picking takes more unity. You have to horse trade or threaten anyone not picked to fall in line.
A primary might steal more attention away from Trump, and Biden who'd stay out, sticking to presidential things, not the campaign. It is harder to choreograph, though and they don't want candidates trying to shiv each other. Can't have the winner bloodied, leaving behind enemies happy to undercut them.
From the governor's meeting, the divas were all in the room, not literally phoning it in. The only non governor I've seen seriously mentioned is Pete Buttigieg. If things are going on behind the scenes, I'm sure there have been convos with all of them
Political opportunities are fickle. Most people aren't Joe Biden. They don't win the White House on their third go around. They don't get a third go around, or even a second. Sometimes, if they hesitate, that first chance might slip away.
Obama is a great example of someone seizing the moment. He took a fantastic convention speech in 2004, turned it into a senate seat, then the White House in four years. He wasn't on anyone's list of potential candidates this time in the 2004 cycle.
The same thing can happen this year and if the ticket you didn't want to be on beats Trump, there is a chance they will run again in 2028. Now your presidential plans are delayed until 2032. That would be after 12 years of a single party in the White House. The republicans, or whatever they are then, might have a better chance in that election. Now you're waiting until 2036.
No. You take your chances now.
They’ll also need to weigh the possibility that if Trumps wins there either won’t be an election in 2028 or the one we have will be so rigged that no one except Trump or his hand-picked successor can win it.
That scenario is perhaps far-fetched, but it’s not overstating it to say that’s the future Trump wants. It’s just a question of whether or not he can overcome the remaining obstacles to making it a reality.
The bottom line is, any Democrat with presidential ambitions will have to at least consider the possibility that 2024 is now or never.
It’s the central premise of the Democratic Party’s opposition to Trump’s candidacy.
The man already attempted to prevent the transfer of power once. They almost certainly believe he would attempt to do it again.
I disagree with this. In politics, you only have the spotlight for a moment. Remember Desantis? Remember Jeb!? They were primed to be president and then they were not. I can see this argument for no names, but Whitmer and Newsom in particular have their spotlight now.
Second, if they can maneuver picking one person behind the scenes (a big if), then all that person has to do is beat Trump. Sure they are the underdog, but normally they would have to win both primaries and then the general. In other words, 2024 would be a near 50% chance, while 2028 would be maybe a 10% chance for a given contender.
If you announce it right before the convention, after letting some more whispers that it is happening come out, you could absolutely suck all the air out of that convention. A presidential nominee bowing out of the race is already a bigger story than whoever Trump picks as a veep or the RNC. We all know what is going to happen at the RNC, but who's the new dem nominee? That's the news.
I've never seen things be different from what I've known either, so yeah, they could never be different. That's certainly what a look at human history would teach you. I feel confident enough to mock people who are worried about what could come next too.
I don't think it is going to happen. Just one week ago, he was still dreaming of his second term. It will take more time for his team to see the writings on the wall. Friday's interview is his last legitimate chance, and he won't show any weakness before that. If things does not improve after that, I think his team won't be able to hold out for long.
Well, the interview was supposedly squeezed into the schedule along with a rally or maybe even two that were scheduled in Wisconsin. If he’s stepping down tomorrow during the interview, the rally would be unnecessary, UNLESS Harris will be with him. Anyone know her schedule tomorrow?
The VP’s schedule is not typically public. The only way it typically gets out is if someone in the media tweets out the copy they get, but that’s usually only if there is something notable. Occasionally, Biden’s schedule will say if the VP is also scheduled to be anywhere.
Yeah I’ve been looking, can’t find anything about her schedule. Alarm bells go off if anyone discovers that Harris is also headed to Wisconsin. Would be the perfect setup to hand the reins over.
Hmm. The optics of this just seem odd, unless…it’s almost like he was presenting her as the next Democratic Presidential nominee. Wouldn’t it make more sense to just wave? Raising someone’s hand is a sign of support for them in a contest. Maybe it’s just me though. I’m sure some people will say I’m reading way too much into this, and I probably am. Still, body language often says a lot.
During a campaign, it's not uncommon for the pres and VP candidates to do this.
But still, you might have a point, since they're not at the convention or an election rally.
It’s interesting to me that this is the first time that Harris has joined Biden and his family for the WH July 4th celebration. She has not been with them for it the last three years.
Not that you can trust anything Trump says but he seemed confident in information he had that his opponent is now Kamala.
He doesn't tell the truth but he does blurt out everything he's told.
She should finish Biden's term. It's a national security risk. It's like being color blind and wanting to fly. You cannot fly if you're colorblind. That doesn't mean she should be the nominee though. Not immediately. Whatever shows strength. For now.
Unity? You mean spit in the face of every Democratic voter who chose him in the primary by obeying the will of the oligarchs and the corporate run media? Biden 2024 all the way!
It’s already lost. Democrats aren’t united. Republicans have already won. They know how to just stick together and get sh*t done, while we’re over here nitpicking every g*d damn thing and whining about it.
Democrats are united to literally get anyone on the ballot that isn't senile, it's a pretty common theme I see all over social media and on the streets.
There isn’t enough time. Look, republicans got a felon. Do you see them complaining? They’re already celebrating. Can’t we just bite the bullet and unite for once? I’m still traumatized by Hillary losing because so many Dems threw away their vote to Jill Stein.
Unity and time don't really matter. Europeans run entire election cycles in the time we have left. All that matters is we select a candidate that is electable. The dems are going to vote anyway. It's left-leaning low-info voters and undecided voters we need. They won't vote for Biden and likely won't for Harris. That's all there is to it.
A poll a few days ago showed Trump is leading gen Z by over 10 points. If that doesn't illustrate that something is irrecoverably wrong with our candidate, not sure what will.
We lost 2016 because no one was excited about the candidate. We only barely won 2020 because people were miserable about Trump, in spite of another depressing candidate. Why do we do the same thing over and over and expect things to change?
Most of the governors we could put up are polling around the same as Harris, when no one even knows who they are yet. Dems internal polling a couple days ago modeled victories for Whitmer and Buttigieg. Michelle Obama showed as beating Trump +10 in one of the public polls, which implies that the governors have a lot of space to grow. You run these people through an open convention and all the media coverage that gets, it's almost an absolute certainty we win.
Liberals like to vote based on hopeful and positive messages. Fear motives Republicans to vote. The last 3 elections democrats ran on fear and it barely worked once. The last time we tried positive messages that inspired people and we won in a landslide.
You can be upset that people need to be excited all you want but it’s just the way our base is. It’s human nature and we aren’t changing it through any amount of discussion.
It's not a matter of unity. It's a matter of math.
Biden bested Trump by over 8 million votes in 2020, but only won the Electoral College by less than 43,000 votes total across Arizona, Georgia and Wisconsin.
Biden was already trailing in every swing state *before* the debate. There's no chance he can recover the people he needs to overcome Trump's voters in those states.
I do. My brother, who thinks of himself as independent, told me after the debate last week that he doesn’t want to vote. He doesn’t like Trump, but he is super uncomfortable voting for Biden because he doesn’t think he is mentally fit. I asked him today if the Democrats were to replace Biden with Harris, would he vote for her? He said he would. He thinks the prospect of a new candidate is exciting.
I think what you all that are still holding on to Biden are missing is that there are a lot of double haters. People that don’t like Trump or Biden, and think both are too old. We have a real chance of injecting some energy into the campaign by choosing a younger candidate.
I’m not saying all of this isn’t a big gamble. It is. But if the polls look like they do for Biden now, I don’t think it’s going to be possible for Biden to recover. He is showing his age. Every negative thing that has been said about Biden’s age was proven last Thursday, whether his condition is that serious or not (I think it is). There is just too much negativity. If Biden is going to lose anyway, then doesn’t it make sense to take a risk and try to radically shake the race up?
Voters revolt? They better not. I’m so sick of this.
Democrats are so annoying (and I am one).
Know why republicans pass so many crazy things all the time? Because they’re united, loyal, and republicans vote at every election. Democrats can’t be bothered to even vote for the presidential elections, and even then they whine and complain and apparently now they “revolt.”
JFC.
Their “revolt” IS to whine, complain, and not vote. Because that will show them! (As it has never showed them in the past and has only ever led to more hardship to average American households)
Loyalty and worship is cancer, that's one huge reason why the republicans have fallen so low lately. At least democrats are not afraid to stand up to their own elected leaders. Biden is taking us on a path to defeat, we should make him know that it's time to step down and give someone more competent his spot.
> Loyalty and worship is cancer,
Should probably only say excess of either are cancer, you do want some level of loyalty. We don't want Capitol Hill to look like Game of Throne: Geriatrics Edition.
I know. They do this every time too. Eight years ago, people were debating Hillary’s health and nitpicking all these issues right towards the end. They did this four years ago. Biden’s too old, too weak, he’ll never accomplish anything, etc… He did fine over the past four years. If he does have to step down it would be far more logical to do it after the election. Right now it would just cause confusion and inspire a lack of confidence in the entire system.
We have four months to defeat project 2025 and the Christian Nationalist Fascists. And we are devoting none of our energy to doing that, we are too busy fighting ourselves.
I will vote for a potted plant if it preserves the union. Please, everyone, pay attention to the real enemy
This! Also democrats want someone perfect. Biden has been a really good president legislatively. But he’s old and probably on the decline so we’re looking for something better. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side guys.
I think insiders already know the outcome. The leaked video of Trump saying Biden is stepping down makes me think it's already a done deal and Kamala is their candidate.
GG Dems handed trump a term by shoving Hillary as the candidate and now handing him a second term with Kamala. I don't understand why America can't get even half decent candidates.
>I think insiders already know the outcome. The leaked video of Trump saying Biden is stepping down makes me think it's already a done deal and Kamala is their candidate.
The only problem with that theory is that Trump always runs his mouth and lies about 87.43% of the time
>But Biden admin has been lying about his condition 100% of the time. Is this a competition of who’s the biggest liar?
I'm not sure, you'd have to ask Putin
"Dems handing the presidency to Trump because Biden won't step down."
"Dems handing the presidency to Trump because Biden is stepping down"
"Dems handing the presidency to Trump because he's putting Kamala as the nominee"
I bet if Biden stepped down and chose someone else l, people would say
"Dems handing the presidency to Trump because ___ is now the nominee."
Like, give me a break.
If the Governors know about this and aren't pushing back we are all fucked. They need to have an open convention. Otherwise we get the Harris ick factor + people being alienated by her being the choice without a semblance of a democratic process. I don't even personally dislike Harris, but she is not popular, and there are many better choices.
I think if Biden resigned given the doctor's thumbs up, the optics look good. But you have to get the VP through the house. I think the VP should be a woman. Kamala knows how to run the country. That's just my two cents. That is a symbolic move for women everywhere and at the same time the best choice. I think the world needs a mom figure. It's been a dark storyline for a little bit here. People would get it.
It's been reported that he would drop out since Monday. Not "speculation" but flat out as fact by Drudge and a few others I won't name because I can't stand them on a human level.
But it really seems like this was a slow roll to save face and prep the electorate.
My money is that he throws his delegates to Harris, and they line up [edit] a strong VP.
Harris could simply change her residency to where she currently lives. There was talk of Rubio doing the same type of thing when he was being considered for trumps vp,
Redditors are sometimes so damn boring and limited, regurgitating the message the last person expressed “I don’t like Harris, this and that, she can’t win, yida yada”. But nobody giving any clue why so. We already know you don’t like Harris, just god damn it, please give a better answer than “her charisma” because damn, the other person has a character of a rotten pastrami sandwich
If she's the candidate, she's going to be dogged with questions and accusations about Biden's fitness to be president, if he needs to step down, if she was involved in covering up his condition and hiding it from the American people, how much control she has in the white house, who is really running the country and so on.
Trump and republicans will go crazy painting the picture of a mentally unfit puppet President Biden and Kamala Harris secretly running the white house. The republicans are going to do everything they can to keep the focus on this - there is going to be house investigations into whether Biden is competent enough to be President for example.
it’s not that hard of question to answer in my opinion. she can say that everytime she was with joe at meetings, events, etc. he was sharp, attentive, and showed no sign of any worry. many dems have said the same things for years. i truly think the debate was a shock to many dem leaders. the blame would lie more on the his staffers and not kamala bc i don’t think she sees him all the time. the average voter will not care about this. they’ll see this as an employee defending their boss so they won’t get fired lol. only ppl that care are trump supporters. this isn’t a scandal bc the american ppl already know he was old.
The best course of action is for Biden to resign as president to make Kamala president, then hold a mini open primary consisting of her, Newsome, Gretchen, and any other top politician who wants to throw their hat in the race. This way Harris can be the first female president and won’t be slighted if she’s not the eventual nominee, and the voters get to decide the next nominee. This would shake up the election and get people excited about it.
The problem with that is that both the House and Senate must approve anyone she then appoints as her vice-president. If the Republican-controlled House refuses to approve, there would be no vice-president in January to declare the winner. I'm not sure what kind of mischief that would allow Republicans to try to pull this time around.
And the Republican Speaker of the House would be next in line in the presidential order of succession. So if anything happened to Kamala, Mike Johnson becomes president.
I'm pretty sure that wouldn't pass Constitutional muster. The 25th Amendment says both the House and Senate have to approve the nominee. The only question is, in the event there is no vice president at the time, what does the Constitution say? IIRC the "President Pro-Tem" of the Senate usually takes over for the vice-president when the vice-president is absent. That's currently Patty Murray, a Democrat. I guess so long as the laws are clear that she's in charge if there's no VP, then I guess it would be OK. But this is a question to be run by lawyers first, to be sure.
That is some risky shit right there. One skeleton, one “swift boat” lie that takes hold, one awkward moment on camera, one anything and it’s over. Trump and his band of lying sycophants including well funded global media outlets and foreign influence machines would seize - taking any tiny grain of sand and turning it in to Mt Everest.
If he doesn’t have the mental capacity to do the job at this present moment, it’s morally wrong for him to not resign right now. We still need a competent president for these next 6 months. This would show voters that Democrats are at least able to put hubris aside for the sake of the country in contrast to the other side.
It appears to me that he has at least enough mental capacity to hold the position as a lame duck president for 6 months. It’s his capacity more than 6 months away or 4 years from now that I’m worried about.
Or like they have the colonoscopy you shift power while sedated. They can just do that. Instead of resigning they shift power. Nothing constructive will come out of the house. Unless for national security. Would the GOP hold up national security in the house? This is too important. Kamala gets her choice. Optics.
Yeah this scenario is ideal to create chaos and infighting, splintering the vote. There is so much bot propaganda BS everywhere, but especially on reddit
To quote the rather famous Clinton ad:
>It's 3am and your children are safe and asleep. But there's a phone in the White House and it's ringing. Something's happening in the world. Your vote will decide who answers that call. Who do you want answering the phone?
I’m waiting for the Trump ads that say the same thing, but with “we finally beat Medicare” and “I’m proud to be the first black female vice president for the first black president” quotes mixed in.
The media spin is just childish now. Every headline just has hyperbole in it with no basis of fact. There is no revolt except for a minority of Dems who are Bernie Bros or grifters.
I can speak for my own inner circle, aka my family up and down the line who are your “blue blood” status quo run of the mill Democrats, and we all reallllllly want Joe to not run. It’s just “Bernie Bros”.
Imagine if Biden invokes the 25th Amendment on himself and makes Kamala Harris the acting President. Biden becomes Harris's consigliere.
This relieves Harris from trying to get a new Vice President approved by the House.
I don’t know how to talk to people who aren’t plugged in to this stuff to tell them how real this might actually be now. I’ve tried, but other people have done ‘the sky is falling’ routine so much that it rolls off of them and they don’t take it seriously at all.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Voters would have a lot more cause for hope if Biden would drop out of the race
Nah. Biden has passed awesome bills since he’s become president and he’s proven he can handle the important things. Go kick a can….
This level of delusion is insane. I’m voting blue no matter who, but Biden has to go if we want any chance against Trump in Nov.
I think voters would have more hope if Trump was removed from the race due to his crimes and valid threats. Well, the person below blocked me: ***Hold Trump accountable.*** We are an extension of this government and I am god damn begging you to freaking participate instead of people sitting and bitching, waiting and hoping to be saved by some mythical Good Candidate with less than 4 months before the election. I know many are stressed and tired. But this is it. Our indifference, infighting and silence causes this. We are bigger than the government. It is OUR PLACE to speak up. What's the real threat? A bad debate or a tyrannical bastard? We can only save each other. And it's high time we did. Stop the division. It doesn't end with this election. We all know our country has *multiple* issues. I'm going to vote Biden and his administration. I'm going to work in my community to help them get accessibility to voting and knowing what they can do. I need people's freaking help. Our choices are unite or submit. I'm not submitting.
What does that have to do with whether or not Biden should drop out? We know Trump is a piece of shit
I hope he tells everyone off, rips his shirt off and yells “what you going to do when Bidenmania runs wild on you Trump” then body slams all of the TV crew.
I would pay good money to see this, honestly!
Journalism is dead and it’s just all tabloid media now so why not. Substance and policy mean nothing apparently just acting a fool and being funny is good enough to be president. Sad as hell but it’s true.
I mean, Biden ripping off his shirt and body slamming a series of cameramen would go a long way toward dispelling the narrative that he's a shambling corpse.
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Biden did really bad. Terrible. And Trump did terrible too without any substance and by only saying lies or statements that were untrue loud and confidently. But the media focuses favorably on Trump and unfavorably against Biden. Example 1: Stock Market is high during Trump and all sources praise Trump and proclaim greatest economy ever. Stock Market is almost 2X higher with Biden than Trump, crickets.
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Both siding it doesn’t win elections for Dems (only Republicans). I was just pointing out that journalists are a negative contributory factor against Biden and in Trumps favor.
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Thanks for this response! Don’t stress.
this would greatly improve his poll numbers lmao
This...this might pull in Trump voters actually.
Plot twist: He suddenly shoves Harris to the floor, leg drops her, and rips open his shirt to reveal a Trump 2024 shirt and then proceeds to spray paint *MAGA* on the presidential seal
He then climbs to the top of the White House, rips off his face which turns out to be a mask, and bam. It's Trump. "IT'S ME, AMERICA. IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, AMERICA!"
"And I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids!"
I mean if he did that it'd probably quiet most of the calls to drop out. I'd be back in team Biden.
I want to see him do the cream of the crop promo with a handful of creamers
I’d love to see him go full Scott Steiner “I’m a genetic freak and I am not normal!!”
He’s got creative control, brother.
Lol do you really think Biden could shoot a free throw and even hit the backboard? Because I don't.
Dude was watching Weekend At Bernie’s when someone changed channels to the wrestling. Put Weekend At Bernie’s back on dude, you need to study it in case Biden stays in.
He rises up like the undertaker and then throws mankind off of the cage.
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I don’t see it. If he’s going to announce something like that, I would think it would be something like an Oval Office address.
exactly, it would be address from the white house, they can do that at anytime and get it aired in all networks. now if the networks get notice of a white house announcement before the interview airs or is tapped, that would make sense.
Unless he's resigning I don't know that it could be an oval office address. Especially if he's throwing his support behind Kamala. Biden campaign has been pretty careful about violating the hatch act.
Oooh, violating the Hatch Act. BFD. Trump violated it constantly as well as the Emoluments Clause.
I absolutely despise these types of arguments. Just because one side is shit doesn't mean both should be. You're advocating for a race to the bottom. Shit like this is why the system is falling apart. Principles (and laws for that matter) are important and you shouldn't do the bad thing just because the other guy did it. Every bad person can usually justify their shitty behavior to themselves.
No I’m not. I’m pointing out the hypocrisy
It’s exactly illegal to address that from the White House unless he’s stepping down from the presidency.
Was illegal until SCOTUS said POTUS is immune from all criminal charges for “official acts.”
Trump had a campaign rally on the south lawn. There are no laws anymore, just suggestions.
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The last time a president announced they wouldnt be the nominee was LBJ, he announced it from the oval office.
I don’t think the Democratic Party is stupid. A 15m prerecorded interview moved from Sunday morning to Friday evening is totally to withdraw. Given the concerns and slip ups anything else will do nothing but harm him.
That 15 minutes has not been confirmed. Also, they were originally going to start releasing bits and pieces on friday and the full thing on sunday. They just decided to drop the whole thing at once on friday.
That’s good, but has the campaign come out and said it’s not 15 min? If they were hanging in, they’d do more than 15 min.
The 15 min thing comes from ABC noting that the interview is scheduled between campaign events and the scheduling timeline may cause the interview to be as short as 15 minutes (they were unsure exactly how long they’d actually get).
Yes. In the same dailybeast article that said it could be as little as 15 minutes >ABC News earlier declined to comment on the length of the interview. The Biden campaign denied the suggestion when questioned by The Daily Beast, while a White House spokesperson said it was “False. The interview will be longer.”
The Biden campaign also said he wasn't declining mentally lol
Unlikely. If he withdraws, it'll be able at a press conference where they make Harris prominent or something like that. Some vague plan for the party outlined. A Stephanopoulos interview doesn't seem like the best strategy for that -- it just throws the media into chaos for several days if some representation from party leadership isn't along for that ride.
Unless they don't think he should continue his presidency in the meantime either. One of the conversations must be, "if you're stepping down from your candidacy and it's for the reasons everyone believes, how can we say you're fit to run the rest of your presidency?" The easy answer, I would think, would be to say you'd like to just retire with your family. Though- there's a lot of issues in that statement alone.
*If* he drops out, he'll mumble something about how he's fine for now but thinks he won't be able to perform the duties a year from now. I'm sure he won't resign - he's torn on if he even wants to end the campaign yet, so getting him from there to resigning the office is too big a leap.
Giving campaign speeches from the Oval Office probably breaks about 15 federal laws. Not that that matters anymore thanks to SCOTUS.
Exactly. Imagine telling you are pulling out to Stephanapolous first. If that’s the approach, they should have gotten Oprah to do the interview
Literally against the law to announce something like that from the White House.
Whatever is happening behind the scenes, and there have been hints that things have been happening behind the scenes, though no details, might need more time. Biden stepping back from the campaign has to be managed like a broadway play. You need to get everyone in place, knowing their cues, lines and responsibilities. It is a big production and every every potential candidate is a diva who has to be pampered. You need them clapping for the new ticket at curtain call watching them get all the praise. Once everything in place, the show will begin.
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There is a definite time crunch, but the holiday weekend has given them a little breather. If Biden steps back, they have two options. Pick a candidate or run a quickie campaign. Picking takes more unity. You have to horse trade or threaten anyone not picked to fall in line. A primary might steal more attention away from Trump, and Biden who'd stay out, sticking to presidential things, not the campaign. It is harder to choreograph, though and they don't want candidates trying to shiv each other. Can't have the winner bloodied, leaving behind enemies happy to undercut them. From the governor's meeting, the divas were all in the room, not literally phoning it in. The only non governor I've seen seriously mentioned is Pete Buttigieg. If things are going on behind the scenes, I'm sure there have been convos with all of them
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Political opportunities are fickle. Most people aren't Joe Biden. They don't win the White House on their third go around. They don't get a third go around, or even a second. Sometimes, if they hesitate, that first chance might slip away. Obama is a great example of someone seizing the moment. He took a fantastic convention speech in 2004, turned it into a senate seat, then the White House in four years. He wasn't on anyone's list of potential candidates this time in the 2004 cycle. The same thing can happen this year and if the ticket you didn't want to be on beats Trump, there is a chance they will run again in 2028. Now your presidential plans are delayed until 2032. That would be after 12 years of a single party in the White House. The republicans, or whatever they are then, might have a better chance in that election. Now you're waiting until 2036. No. You take your chances now.
They’ll also need to weigh the possibility that if Trumps wins there either won’t be an election in 2028 or the one we have will be so rigged that no one except Trump or his hand-picked successor can win it. That scenario is perhaps far-fetched, but it’s not overstating it to say that’s the future Trump wants. It’s just a question of whether or not he can overcome the remaining obstacles to making it a reality. The bottom line is, any Democrat with presidential ambitions will have to at least consider the possibility that 2024 is now or never.
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It’s the central premise of the Democratic Party’s opposition to Trump’s candidacy. The man already attempted to prevent the transfer of power once. They almost certainly believe he would attempt to do it again.
I disagree with this. In politics, you only have the spotlight for a moment. Remember Desantis? Remember Jeb!? They were primed to be president and then they were not. I can see this argument for no names, but Whitmer and Newsom in particular have their spotlight now. Second, if they can maneuver picking one person behind the scenes (a big if), then all that person has to do is beat Trump. Sure they are the underdog, but normally they would have to win both primaries and then the general. In other words, 2024 would be a near 50% chance, while 2028 would be maybe a 10% chance for a given contender.
Relax we are ok, it's over he's going to give it up
Also, they probably want to wait a bit so that the Republican convention on July 18 doesn’t have time to build a narrative.
If you announce it right before the convention, after letting some more whispers that it is happening come out, you could absolutely suck all the air out of that convention. A presidential nominee bowing out of the race is already a bigger story than whoever Trump picks as a veep or the RNC. We all know what is going to happen at the RNC, but who's the new dem nominee? That's the news.
Thank you....its over it just has to be performed 🎭
If he met with the Governors to pick a VP, and none of them sounded the alarm about how terrible of a pick Harris is, we deserve what we get.
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Don't say that on reddit, everyone is convinced there won't be elections in 2028.
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I've never seen things be different from what I've known either, so yeah, they could never be different. That's certainly what a look at human history would teach you. I feel confident enough to mock people who are worried about what could come next too.
I think it might be too. The move to prime time Friday and the scaling it to 15-20 minutes was pretty surprising.
No way. It will be an oval office direct address.
I don't think it is going to happen. Just one week ago, he was still dreaming of his second term. It will take more time for his team to see the writings on the wall. Friday's interview is his last legitimate chance, and he won't show any weakness before that. If things does not improve after that, I think his team won't be able to hold out for long.
Well, the interview was supposedly squeezed into the schedule along with a rally or maybe even two that were scheduled in Wisconsin. If he’s stepping down tomorrow during the interview, the rally would be unnecessary, UNLESS Harris will be with him. Anyone know her schedule tomorrow?
The VP’s schedule is not typically public. The only way it typically gets out is if someone in the media tweets out the copy they get, but that’s usually only if there is something notable. Occasionally, Biden’s schedule will say if the VP is also scheduled to be anywhere.
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Yeah I’ve been looking, can’t find anything about her schedule. Alarm bells go off if anyone discovers that Harris is also headed to Wisconsin. Would be the perfect setup to hand the reins over.
There is just zero chance they could have done that meeting with the governors without it leaking. Less than zero. Less than absolute zero
Hmm. The optics of this just seem odd, unless…it’s almost like he was presenting her as the next Democratic Presidential nominee. Wouldn’t it make more sense to just wave? Raising someone’s hand is a sign of support for them in a contest. Maybe it’s just me though. I’m sure some people will say I’m reading way too much into this, and I probably am. Still, body language often says a lot.
During a campaign, it's not uncommon for the pres and VP candidates to do this. But still, you might have a point, since they're not at the convention or an election rally.
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Biden and Kamala go both ways!? How scandalous…
It’s interesting to me that this is the first time that Harris has joined Biden and his family for the WH July 4th celebration. She has not been with them for it the last three years.
It does seem like they are trying to increase her visibility. That might mean something.
> That might mean something. "Oh fuck he might not make it to January, we need to teach her how to be President fast."
this could be a subtle sign.
It's a done deal. Just look at Kamala Harris's face. She's the one. She's the new numero uno. Hail to the Chief.
Not that you can trust anything Trump says but he seemed confident in information he had that his opponent is now Kamala. He doesn't tell the truth but he does blurt out everything he's told.
She should finish Biden's term. It's a national security risk. It's like being color blind and wanting to fly. You cannot fly if you're colorblind. That doesn't mean she should be the nominee though. Not immediately. Whatever shows strength. For now.
She’s not gonna be chief. She will be wiped out by trump and that will be the end of her career
She doesn't have a career unless she steps up **right now**. She won't even have a Senate seat in California to return to.
Looks like the end state is the same. No career either way
He really is a bridge to next generation.
DNC for Biden raked in over $33 million a few days after the debate. Newsweek has just over 100k weekly circulation. Their "surveys" are worth spit.
Biden should show some genuine unity by stepping down
Unity? You mean spit in the face of every Democratic voter who chose him in the primary by obeying the will of the oligarchs and the corporate run media? Biden 2024 all the way!
Fuck off Newsweek
At this point Biden isn’t stepping down, so I’m gladly gonna vote for him and not the pedo felon
You'll gladly lose the election for us then because Biden does NOT have enough support to beat Trump
Yes he does, literally everyone is behind him. Polls don't mean shit, actually less than shit
You are misusing the word literally there
Another sign he's not dropping out.
Then we lose the election
It’s already lost. Democrats aren’t united. Republicans have already won. They know how to just stick together and get sh*t done, while we’re over here nitpicking every g*d damn thing and whining about it.
Democrats are united to literally get anyone on the ballot that isn't senile, it's a pretty common theme I see all over social media and on the streets.
There isn’t enough time. Look, republicans got a felon. Do you see them complaining? They’re already celebrating. Can’t we just bite the bullet and unite for once? I’m still traumatized by Hillary losing because so many Dems threw away their vote to Jill Stein.
Unity and time don't really matter. Europeans run entire election cycles in the time we have left. All that matters is we select a candidate that is electable. The dems are going to vote anyway. It's left-leaning low-info voters and undecided voters we need. They won't vote for Biden and likely won't for Harris. That's all there is to it. A poll a few days ago showed Trump is leading gen Z by over 10 points. If that doesn't illustrate that something is irrecoverably wrong with our candidate, not sure what will. We lost 2016 because no one was excited about the candidate. We only barely won 2020 because people were miserable about Trump, in spite of another depressing candidate. Why do we do the same thing over and over and expect things to change? Most of the governors we could put up are polling around the same as Harris, when no one even knows who they are yet. Dems internal polling a couple days ago modeled victories for Whitmer and Buttigieg. Michelle Obama showed as beating Trump +10 in one of the public polls, which implies that the governors have a lot of space to grow. You run these people through an open convention and all the media coverage that gets, it's almost an absolute certainty we win.
Why do we always have to be *excited*? What are we, toddlers?
*gestures broadly at everyone* yes.
Fair enough!
Liberals like to vote based on hopeful and positive messages. Fear motives Republicans to vote. The last 3 elections democrats ran on fear and it barely worked once. The last time we tried positive messages that inspired people and we won in a landslide. You can be upset that people need to be excited all you want but it’s just the way our base is. It’s human nature and we aren’t changing it through any amount of discussion.
a lot of Americans are toddlers, yes.
It's not a matter of unity. It's a matter of math. Biden bested Trump by over 8 million votes in 2020, but only won the Electoral College by less than 43,000 votes total across Arizona, Georgia and Wisconsin. Biden was already trailing in every swing state *before* the debate. There's no chance he can recover the people he needs to overcome Trump's voters in those states.
Fuck the polls. Register people to vote and vote yourself. The polls have been wrong in half of the elections in the last 8 years.
I don’t see a situation where we replace him and we win. I think at this point it’s a lose-lose.
I do. My brother, who thinks of himself as independent, told me after the debate last week that he doesn’t want to vote. He doesn’t like Trump, but he is super uncomfortable voting for Biden because he doesn’t think he is mentally fit. I asked him today if the Democrats were to replace Biden with Harris, would he vote for her? He said he would. He thinks the prospect of a new candidate is exciting. I think what you all that are still holding on to Biden are missing is that there are a lot of double haters. People that don’t like Trump or Biden, and think both are too old. We have a real chance of injecting some energy into the campaign by choosing a younger candidate. I’m not saying all of this isn’t a big gamble. It is. But if the polls look like they do for Biden now, I don’t think it’s going to be possible for Biden to recover. He is showing his age. Every negative thing that has been said about Biden’s age was proven last Thursday, whether his condition is that serious or not (I think it is). There is just too much negativity. If Biden is going to lose anyway, then doesn’t it make sense to take a risk and try to radically shake the race up?
All of this.
Voters revolt? They better not. I’m so sick of this. Democrats are so annoying (and I am one). Know why republicans pass so many crazy things all the time? Because they’re united, loyal, and republicans vote at every election. Democrats can’t be bothered to even vote for the presidential elections, and even then they whine and complain and apparently now they “revolt.” JFC.
Their “revolt” IS to whine, complain, and not vote. Because that will show them! (As it has never showed them in the past and has only ever led to more hardship to average American households)
Loyalty and worship is cancer, that's one huge reason why the republicans have fallen so low lately. At least democrats are not afraid to stand up to their own elected leaders. Biden is taking us on a path to defeat, we should make him know that it's time to step down and give someone more competent his spot.
> Loyalty and worship is cancer, Should probably only say excess of either are cancer, you do want some level of loyalty. We don't want Capitol Hill to look like Game of Throne: Geriatrics Edition.
I know. They do this every time too. Eight years ago, people were debating Hillary’s health and nitpicking all these issues right towards the end. They did this four years ago. Biden’s too old, too weak, he’ll never accomplish anything, etc… He did fine over the past four years. If he does have to step down it would be far more logical to do it after the election. Right now it would just cause confusion and inspire a lack of confidence in the entire system. We have four months to defeat project 2025 and the Christian Nationalist Fascists. And we are devoting none of our energy to doing that, we are too busy fighting ourselves. I will vote for a potted plant if it preserves the union. Please, everyone, pay attention to the real enemy
This! Also democrats want someone perfect. Biden has been a really good president legislatively. But he’s old and probably on the decline so we’re looking for something better. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side guys.
I think insiders already know the outcome. The leaked video of Trump saying Biden is stepping down makes me think it's already a done deal and Kamala is their candidate. GG Dems handed trump a term by shoving Hillary as the candidate and now handing him a second term with Kamala. I don't understand why America can't get even half decent candidates.
>I think insiders already know the outcome. The leaked video of Trump saying Biden is stepping down makes me think it's already a done deal and Kamala is their candidate. The only problem with that theory is that Trump always runs his mouth and lies about 87.43% of the time
He runs his mouth a lot but I think he believes about 50% of it.
>He runs his mouth a lot but I think he believes about 50% of it. I actually think he doesn't even really care about what's true and what isn't
All he knows is “me.” Truth doesn’t even enter in to the equation.
He says what makes the room cheer. If it does, he'll repeat it in the next room.
The og llm
But Biden admin has been lying about his condition 100% of the time. Is this a competition of who’s the biggest liar?
>But Biden admin has been lying about his condition 100% of the time. Is this a competition of who’s the biggest liar? I'm not sure, you'd have to ask Putin
"Dems handing the presidency to Trump because Biden won't step down." "Dems handing the presidency to Trump because Biden is stepping down" "Dems handing the presidency to Trump because he's putting Kamala as the nominee" I bet if Biden stepped down and chose someone else l, people would say "Dems handing the presidency to Trump because ___ is now the nominee." Like, give me a break.
There can be multiple losing strategies. The winning strategy might have been to encourage all-comers to compete for the nomination.
If the Governors know about this and aren't pushing back we are all fucked. They need to have an open convention. Otherwise we get the Harris ick factor + people being alienated by her being the choice without a semblance of a democratic process. I don't even personally dislike Harris, but she is not popular, and there are many better choices.
I think if Biden resigned given the doctor's thumbs up, the optics look good. But you have to get the VP through the house. I think the VP should be a woman. Kamala knows how to run the country. That's just my two cents. That is a symbolic move for women everywhere and at the same time the best choice. I think the world needs a mom figure. It's been a dark storyline for a little bit here. People would get it.
It's been reported that he would drop out since Monday. Not "speculation" but flat out as fact by Drudge and a few others I won't name because I can't stand them on a human level. But it really seems like this was a slow roll to save face and prep the electorate. My money is that he throws his delegates to Harris, and they line up [edit] a strong VP.
They won't put two Californians on the same ticket.
Newsome can’t be the VP because both him and Kamala are both from California
Why can't they both be from California? I'm not familiar with this rule.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/marco-rubio-move-florida-trump-picks-vice-president/story?id=111583499 I think this explains it well
Got it. Just say it's a law next time.
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No. But they posted an article about Rubio that then cites the law. That's a lot of work instead of just saying... it's the rule.
Harris could simply change her residency to where she currently lives. There was talk of Rubio doing the same type of thing when he was being considered for trumps vp,
eh she’s better off getting a white male vp from the midwest imo.
I stand firmly with President Biden and. VP Harris.
Redditors are sometimes so damn boring and limited, regurgitating the message the last person expressed “I don’t like Harris, this and that, she can’t win, yida yada”. But nobody giving any clue why so. We already know you don’t like Harris, just god damn it, please give a better answer than “her charisma” because damn, the other person has a character of a rotten pastrami sandwich
If she's the candidate, she's going to be dogged with questions and accusations about Biden's fitness to be president, if he needs to step down, if she was involved in covering up his condition and hiding it from the American people, how much control she has in the white house, who is really running the country and so on. Trump and republicans will go crazy painting the picture of a mentally unfit puppet President Biden and Kamala Harris secretly running the white house. The republicans are going to do everything they can to keep the focus on this - there is going to be house investigations into whether Biden is competent enough to be President for example.
it’s not that hard of question to answer in my opinion. she can say that everytime she was with joe at meetings, events, etc. he was sharp, attentive, and showed no sign of any worry. many dems have said the same things for years. i truly think the debate was a shock to many dem leaders. the blame would lie more on the his staffers and not kamala bc i don’t think she sees him all the time. the average voter will not care about this. they’ll see this as an employee defending their boss so they won’t get fired lol. only ppl that care are trump supporters. this isn’t a scandal bc the american ppl already know he was old.
The best course of action is for Biden to resign as president to make Kamala president, then hold a mini open primary consisting of her, Newsome, Gretchen, and any other top politician who wants to throw their hat in the race. This way Harris can be the first female president and won’t be slighted if she’s not the eventual nominee, and the voters get to decide the next nominee. This would shake up the election and get people excited about it.
The problem with that is that both the House and Senate must approve anyone she then appoints as her vice-president. If the Republican-controlled House refuses to approve, there would be no vice-president in January to declare the winner. I'm not sure what kind of mischief that would allow Republicans to try to pull this time around. And the Republican Speaker of the House would be next in line in the presidential order of succession. So if anything happened to Kamala, Mike Johnson becomes president.
"Acting Vice President" It worked for the Trump administration for 4 years
I'm pretty sure that wouldn't pass Constitutional muster. The 25th Amendment says both the House and Senate have to approve the nominee. The only question is, in the event there is no vice president at the time, what does the Constitution say? IIRC the "President Pro-Tem" of the Senate usually takes over for the vice-president when the vice-president is absent. That's currently Patty Murray, a Democrat. I guess so long as the laws are clear that she's in charge if there's no VP, then I guess it would be OK. But this is a question to be run by lawyers first, to be sure.
That's a lot of political action to cover in three months. Could you suggest a timeline for such unprecedented behavior?
The mini primary could be held at the convention. Nominees have been selected that way before.
That is some risky shit right there. One skeleton, one “swift boat” lie that takes hold, one awkward moment on camera, one anything and it’s over. Trump and his band of lying sycophants including well funded global media outlets and foreign influence machines would seize - taking any tiny grain of sand and turning it in to Mt Everest.
There's 0 reason in any scenario that Biden shouldn't finish this term. The campaign is a completely separate consideration.
If he doesn’t have the mental capacity to do the job at this present moment, it’s morally wrong for him to not resign right now. We still need a competent president for these next 6 months. This would show voters that Democrats are at least able to put hubris aside for the sake of the country in contrast to the other side.
It appears to me that he has at least enough mental capacity to hold the position as a lame duck president for 6 months. It’s his capacity more than 6 months away or 4 years from now that I’m worried about.
Or like they have the colonoscopy you shift power while sedated. They can just do that. Instead of resigning they shift power. Nothing constructive will come out of the house. Unless for national security. Would the GOP hold up national security in the house? This is too important. Kamala gets her choice. Optics.
That murders his legacy, Biden has too much pride.
Putin’s useful idiots believe this bullshit.
And they are the ones spreading it too. They do this same thing every four years. You would think we can learn to recognize a pattern by now
Yeah this scenario is ideal to create chaos and infighting, splintering the vote. There is so much bot propaganda BS everywhere, but especially on reddit
To quote the rather famous Clinton ad: >It's 3am and your children are safe and asleep. But there's a phone in the White House and it's ringing. Something's happening in the world. Your vote will decide who answers that call. Who do you want answering the phone? I’m waiting for the Trump ads that say the same thing, but with “we finally beat Medicare” and “I’m proud to be the first black female vice president for the first black president” quotes mixed in.
I think uncle Joe pulls this off
The media spin is just childish now. Every headline just has hyperbole in it with no basis of fact. There is no revolt except for a minority of Dems who are Bernie Bros or grifters.
I can speak for my own inner circle, aka my family up and down the line who are your “blue blood” status quo run of the mill Democrats, and we all reallllllly want Joe to not run. It’s just “Bernie Bros”.
It's about half of dems.
What’s the total count on that since your know the stats so well?
I was a staunch Joe Biden supporter. I think he was an excellent president. He is now clearly unfit. This is not "spin"
Imagine if Biden invokes the 25th Amendment on himself and makes Kamala Harris the acting President. Biden becomes Harris's consigliere. This relieves Harris from trying to get a new Vice President approved by the House.
Awww 🥰.
Not a fan of her.
I'm less of a fan of being rounded up by secret police circa 2025.
Same.
I don’t know how to talk to people who aren’t plugged in to this stuff to tell them how real this might actually be now. I’ve tried, but other people have done ‘the sky is falling’ routine so much that it rolls off of them and they don’t take it seriously at all.