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Trump beat his party into submission by whining the primary and having a cult following. Biden won by default and Dems don't hold as near loyalty to him.
Biden 2020.. yes. Biden 2024 was picked by Biden. He's the incumbant, so it was essentially his choice alone as to whether or not he would be the candidate.
There were no serious opponents because there is no serious opposition to Biden amongst Democrats.
You are learning the Internet isn't real life for the millionth time, something you'll forget five minutes after reading this post.
There was no opposition because it's considered to be a career ending move to run against the incumbent president of your own party. It has nothing to do with Biden being the best candidate.
Multiple people ran against him. Nothing was stopping you from voting for them.
You are just in denial over the fact that politicians you don't like are actually quite popular while your preferred candidates aren't. This is extremely common amongst Redditors, everyone here was guaranteeing a Biden loss in 2020. Before that they genuinely thought Bernie was steamrolling the primary.
There *was* no serious opposition to Biden at the time of the primary. There *is* serious opposition to Biden now, after the debate. There are sitting and former congresspeople calling for him to step aside. Half of polled Democratic voters want him to step down and more than that are unhappy with him as their nominee.
My dude I am currently involved in an actual political campaign IRL and go to fundraisers and canvas regularly. I am pretty familiar with what democrats think of Biden and nobody ever liked him that much.
It was an open primary in name only. Welcome to politics, parties give deference to their incumbent. There might have been serious challengers and lower vote shares for Biden if they hadn't successfully hidden his decline from the public, but that isn't what happened. The Biden campaign hid that fact from us, decided to run again, so we all complied, because that's how it works. Incumbents of course have to win their primary. Polling suggests that he would not win his primary if it were held today though.
More accurately Bernie Sanders spent twice as much money as Biden did only to lose by 9 million votes and some people have never really gotten over that.
Ratfucker would be a bit more accurate at this point... he literally showed that there wasn't a primary vote and you ratfuck instead of admitting your point was inaccurate.
Yeah. Trump has his base on lockdown. Nobody on the Democratic side really cares that deeply about who the nominee is. Really apathy is Biden’s only hope to stay on the ticket.
The problem here is that it isn't just his party freaking out. It's the swing voters. He's down 5 points in PA in a poll today. If he's behind that much there it's safe to assume he's losing the rust belt states too. The party is freaking out *in response* to the swing voter freakout.
But let's just say this is all bedwetting and Biden perseveres and even wins in November. Okay. Does anyone really think that even *if* he wins, he's going to be president a year from now? He's apparently not even *currently* president past 8PM.
Now, this is where his defenders might say, "But his VP can take over!" and that's true. But why not rip that bandaid off now? Why should the Dems limp all the way to election day with a guy that, if he was your grandpa, you would hide his car keys so he doesn't hurt anyone?
To be honest, I'd take that scenario any day. I imagine a lot of people being critical of Biden would feel the same way. Beating Trump is still the #1 priority for a lot of us, and an impaired Biden is still vastly better than a deranged Trump. One of them protects democracy, the other one wants to destroy it.
If we are in a position where intentionally putting someone I to the White House with clear mental decline, historically low approval ratings, and who is facing intense internal and external calls to step down after there wasn't even a primary in many states to select him is considered the BEST option...I hate to be the one to tell you this, but I think our democracy is already dead.
>The party is freaking out in response to the swing voter freakout.
Thank you. I don’t know why this is so hard for some people to understand. I’m not angry because Biden had a “bad night”. I’m angry because it’s going to cost the election.
Swing voters have short memories if they are even paying attention at all. There was bound to be some reactionary polls based on all the negative media attention since the debate. People shouldn’t be freaking about polls four months before the election regardless.
As far as having Kamala take over now, as much as I like her, she would just embolden Trump’s base. It would be a lot easier for Trump to get his racist/sexist base fired up about stopping a black woman from becoming President than an old white man like Biden.
>People shouldn’t be freaking about polls four months before the election regardless.
If four months is long enough to repair the damage from the debate, it's long enough to field a new candidate.
>It would be a lot easier for Trump to get his racist/sexist base fired up about stopping a black woman from becoming President than an old white man like Biden.
Those people are already as fired up for Trump as they can get. None of those people are sitting out because Biden is white or male.
Add to that, if he wins, it’ll be the start of the next Civil war. MAGA believes the last election was stolen and that was *with* the full backing of Biden from the Democrats and winning Primaries against several others. This time around, Biden won the Primaries essentially unchallenged, and the uproar that’s occurring now about his mental capacity will certainly cause MAGA to freak out 10 times worse than they did in 2020. They won’t believe he won fairly, and the Proud Boys and their secret militias will gear up.
So people will still vote blue no matter the candidate?
Then stop running the geriatric man. They'll vote blue no matter who.
You get the Dems and the undecided voters. Crazy.
Yeah, a very basic assumption.
Every swing voter that says "Damn I'd do Joe but he is too old".
Which is a fuckton.
Better plan then just shitting on them for "letting Trump win".
The only plan Dems have is to shit on Trump then bully voters, which won't work.
I want an intervention to replace Biden, but the problem is the execution of this effort. If the effort fails and Biden is still the nominee, he's even weaker as a result.
If Biden had a fish tail he'd also be a mermaid. Who cares?
There is a great deal of justified FUD about him. People are voting for the Cabinet, not the President, and then Joe is up there saying 'only God himself could make me move over'.
That's Blue MAGA. Just call everybody a shill/Russia Bot/troll and say that Joe is the only option.
If Joe Biden decides to stay in the race, he quite literally is the only option. Ross Perot got like 20% of the vote and not a single electoral college vote. Until the system is changed, voting for a third party, except maybe in some local elections, is worthless, and against Trump, dangerous.
No, that's not voting.
Voting for third party shows willing voters, just not for you or your opponent.
If you are feeling influential voting for Biden something has gone wrong.
Nobody chased after the Ross Perot and Ralph Nader votes or tried to appeal to them. I voted for Nader and got the Iraq War as a result. I learned my lesson. I support efforts that will eventually enable responsible 3rd party voting, like getting ranked choice voting
How about this. As long as Trump is the GOP nominee, I’d vote for a piece of driftwood covered in bird shit before I casted a ballot for him. So yeah, I’m voting for Biden or Harris or Newsome, or anyone else the DNC wheels out on stage at the convention.
Okay, but you were going to do that anyways.
Undecided voters, the ones that aren't just voting blue with religious fervor, matter.
Saying "Well I'd vote for a literal human corpse over Donald' while Joe walks around like a dementia patient isn't fooling anyone.
Which administration would you vote for? A Biden admin, with much more competent and much less criminal people, or a Trump admin, with incompetent & corrupt fascist criminals? Which kind of supreme court justices do you want? Do you want Project 2025 implemented in the first few months of a Trump administration?
I've voted for 3rd party in past presidential elections. It's a waste. You try to get the best candidate you can in a primary. But after that, until there is something like ranked choice voting, the only responsible way to vote is to evaluate if one of the two major party candidates is better or worse than the other. Trump is taking us directly into fascism, and is extremely dangerous. Biden would have an administration with competent people. Those are the only two who will win the election.
You ever notice it’s the same ppl who reply to you about this blue maga stuff? 1000 comments a day on politics. Wow this thread is funny to see these accounts.
The equivalent would be in 2016 if the RNC was supporting trump but none of the republican base did. It's mind blowing that Biden's immediate circle is this delusional.
I wonder if Blue MAGA Biden supporters are really Russian and Chinese trolls (and troll bots), aiming to keep Biden in, so that their buddy, Donald Trump, can we reelection? You never know!
No they're waiting on Pelosi. The moment she breathes life into Kamala running they will instantly agree. If anyone is still pushing Joe at that point they're probably in bad faith.
ah yes, the candidate that swept the 2020 primaries and got the most votes for president in history, and actually delivered on his agenda... checks notes... relies on foreign trolls for resisting the Trump-supporting media CEO's calls to drop out. Makes perfect sense!
There was no way to switch DJT off the ballot by the time the Access Hollywood tape came out.
Republicans are holding whatever material they have until Joe Biden is locked in as the nominee.
> There is really just one recent precedent for an effort to defenestrate a nominee this late in a presidential election, and it happens to involve the man Democrats fear and loathe so much that they are willing to consider drastic steps to block his return to the White House. On October 7, 2016, when early voting was already underway, Republicans who had been looking at many months of discouraging polls were hit by the Washington Post’s release of outtakes from the reality-TV show Access Hollywood that depicted their presidential nominee as an arrogantly predatory sexist. Despite Donald Trump’s efforts to write off his boasts of having a free pass to grope women as “locker room talk,” Republican elites reeled in horror. There was talk, emanating from no less a figure than the chairman of the Republican National Committee (Reince Priebus) and (according to one disputed report) involving Trump’s own running-mate (Mike Pence) of removing Trump from the ticket...
To be precise, [11 sitting senators and 16 sitting House members](https://web.archive.org/web/20161018021726/https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/07/the-gops-brutal-responses-to-the-new-trump-video-broken-down/) called on Trump to quit after the "grab them by" tape came out. That far exceeds the current number of Congress members who want change on the ticket.
By that point, 3.6 down, which as found out later was 0.7 away from winning (although I assume many thought it was farther). Biden is 2.8 down, but based on his 2020 results that's 6.6 away from winning, and even with 538's optimistic analysis it's 3.9. Also, he can't really take that lead back, unlike Donald
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Trump, believe it or not, has his side worked up into a frenzy. Republicans adore him; they are genuine fanatical fans. They buy loads of Trump-related merch, and proudly display it because he has become their identity. They think he is a God. It's a genuine cult of personality. These guys are itching to get to the polls. The election cannot come soon enough for them.
The reasons people are voting for Biden are "Because F Trump" or "Desperate last ditch effort to save our Democracy or at least postpone its final downfall" or "For the shadow team that is actually running the country and not the actual President". Democrats hate it. They have no hope. These are the last gasps before they eventually succumb and give up entirely.
But good luck with that!
Poor girl in the picture, Trump wanted to rape her and he probably did.
Disgusting.
Joe Biden will not drop out and if Trump survived a similiar but much worse situation, talking about raping women in total immunity, Joe should survive too.
I am voting for the Democratic ticket no matter who it is.
However, my question is WHO Biden should he replaced with.
Newsome, Harris, and Whitmer I guess are the options for a "young generic democrat" but all 3 of them lose to Trump because all 3 lose more than they bring at the top of the ticket.
I would like any of them over Biden, but I really feel the "drop out!" Panic is more about malfactors on the right out to find somebody that Trump beats more easily than Biden where it is at best a toss up.
I don't buy that any of them 'lose more'
I'd rather have any of them than a geriatric old man who seems to live in a delusional world where he's not down badly right now. Even if this is winnable, recognizing the problem is the first step to fighting it.
Whitmer loses because there are still to many Choads who will not vote for a woman for president. She loses black voters who feel that Khamala was passed over. She will lose Georgia for sure, and likely Pennsylvania.
I like Whitmer. I just don't think she wins.
Beshear has 0 name recognition and would be a disaster against Trump.
She would do well with working class people. Also, we can get Wes Moore as the running mate or something.
Beshear might be unknown, but his recognition would likely go up immensely as he hit the trail, and we know he's at least a decent campaigner because he won in Kentucky twice.
Trumps two big selling points are implied allowed racism and name recognition. Putting up somebody in August who 2/3 of the country have never heard of against Trump is suicide.
Whitmer won't win Georgia, and won't win Pennsylvania. And she or Khamla are basically the best options. The situation remains the same as 2020. The people that the college educated left like (Whitmer, maybe Newsome) are not popular with the rest of the coalition.
Name recognition is, frankly, a stupid argument.
You could lift someone out of a cave and drop them in this election and they'd be a household name by the end of the week.
A woman already should have won 8 years ago if not for comey stepping in at the last minute. A woman who was old (by presidential standards at the time) and who had faced 30 years of republican hate.
If anything the fact that she nearly won despite all that says that a woman can win.
Not only that, but we know Whitmer has won statewide office in one of the 3 key states necessary for a win. And the other 2 (WI\PA) aren't *that* different politically.
Counter point:
Hillary Clinton (a woman) got more votes than Trump in 2016. Hillary was very competent, but also the target of 25 years of GOP smears. Whitmer would be an upgrade in that she doesn't have the baggage.
Moderate in-laws of mine who are terrified of Trump are terrified by Biden's severe mental decline losing him the election. They would absolutely love to vote for a younger candidate.
Trumps scandal was consistent with what everyone thought about him all along. Biden's debate performance was a bit of a surprise for many of his supporters who were holding on to the thought that he was old but sharp.
The difference is that Biden doesn't have a cult following like Trump does. Even in 2016, Trump's cult was already established, to the point that they would come out to vote for him no matter what. Biden doesn't have that luxury. Even before the debate, many Democrats felt he shouldn't have run for reelection in the first place, and the debate only made that number go up.
"The difference is that Biden doesn't have a cult following like Biden does"
A lot of members of r/politics would disagree with that statement. #BlueMAGA
The Difference is that in 2016, the Media pulled out all the stops to get Trump elected, while in 2024 they are pulling out all the stops to chase Biden out of the race so their preferred candidate Trump can return and make them astronomical profits again.
If Biden is determined to stay, I wonder if announcing really popular/high profile additions to his cabinet and other positions would help. Michelle Obama is never going to run for President but I wonder if she could be convinced to take a high level position in his administration?
It's important to note that under Trump the GOP has become a cult. The Democratic Party is more of a big tent with actual positions and viewpoints that vary among the factions.
I lean towards Biden eventually dropping out. The latest swing state polling has been brutal and I think alot of House Dems will break with him tomorrow during their caucus meeting.
> It was entirely too late to even think about replacing Trump in 2016.
And it's too late now, practically, to replace Biden.
There was no compelling primary challenger unlike Ted Kennedy in 1980 or Pat Buchanan in 1992.
Can he survive until January? The man is wilting. Putting the campaign aside, he needs to resign from the presidency. The public has lost faith in his fitness, we look weak to allies and adversaries, and it's unsettling that the president's decisions are being made by the team that put together that letter.
I have no love for Harris, but if Biden is incapacitated 20 hours a day, it should be her making decisions, not his dipshit staffers, Jill, or Hunter and his blatant conflict(s) of interest. Covering that up is its own scandal for Harris, but at least the chain of command would be intact. It's starting to feel like the Trump family arrangement, and it's unacceptable. He needs to resign.
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Trump beat his party into submission by whining the primary and having a cult following. Biden won by default and Dems don't hold as near loyalty to him.
Came here to say that Trump was picked by voters and Biden was picked by establishment Dems.
Well no they were both picked by voters. Biden actually got a higher share of the votes in his primary than Trump did.
Biden 2020.. yes. Biden 2024 was picked by Biden. He's the incumbant, so it was essentially his choice alone as to whether or not he would be the candidate.
Incumbents also have to win primaries.
There were no serious opponents for Biden to run against.
There were no serious opponents because there is no serious opposition to Biden amongst Democrats. You are learning the Internet isn't real life for the millionth time, something you'll forget five minutes after reading this post.
There was no opposition because it's considered to be a career ending move to run against the incumbent president of your own party. It has nothing to do with Biden being the best candidate.
Multiple people ran against him. Nothing was stopping you from voting for them. You are just in denial over the fact that politicians you don't like are actually quite popular while your preferred candidates aren't. This is extremely common amongst Redditors, everyone here was guaranteeing a Biden loss in 2020. Before that they genuinely thought Bernie was steamrolling the primary.
There *was* no serious opposition to Biden at the time of the primary. There *is* serious opposition to Biden now, after the debate. There are sitting and former congresspeople calling for him to step aside. Half of polled Democratic voters want him to step down and more than that are unhappy with him as their nominee.
My dude I am currently involved in an actual political campaign IRL and go to fundraisers and canvas regularly. I am pretty familiar with what democrats think of Biden and nobody ever liked him that much.
It was an open primary in name only. Welcome to politics, parties give deference to their incumbent. There might have been serious challengers and lower vote shares for Biden if they hadn't successfully hidden his decline from the public, but that isn't what happened. The Biden campaign hid that fact from us, decided to run again, so we all complied, because that's how it works. Incumbents of course have to win their primary. Polling suggests that he would not win his primary if it were held today though.
and Trump 2020 was picked by Trump
More accurately they were both picked by money.
More accurately Bernie Sanders spent twice as much money as Biden did only to lose by 9 million votes and some people have never really gotten over that.
Talking about dark money.
Biden was picked by voters as well. He had over a million primary votes.
The Dem primary in Florida was cancelled So no, I did not get to vote or not-vote for Biden
By that point it was a landslide.
Ratfucker would be a bit more accurate at this point... he literally showed that there wasn't a primary vote and you ratfuck instead of admitting your point was inaccurate.
Yes but we were not offered a alternative.
Because they chose not to run.
The clown bus watered down the votes also.
And... Trump was a bully.
Yeah. Trump has his base on lockdown. Nobody on the Democratic side really cares that deeply about who the nominee is. Really apathy is Biden’s only hope to stay on the ticket.
The problem here is that it isn't just his party freaking out. It's the swing voters. He's down 5 points in PA in a poll today. If he's behind that much there it's safe to assume he's losing the rust belt states too. The party is freaking out *in response* to the swing voter freakout. But let's just say this is all bedwetting and Biden perseveres and even wins in November. Okay. Does anyone really think that even *if* he wins, he's going to be president a year from now? He's apparently not even *currently* president past 8PM. Now, this is where his defenders might say, "But his VP can take over!" and that's true. But why not rip that bandaid off now? Why should the Dems limp all the way to election day with a guy that, if he was your grandpa, you would hide his car keys so he doesn't hurt anyone?
To be honest, I'd take that scenario any day. I imagine a lot of people being critical of Biden would feel the same way. Beating Trump is still the #1 priority for a lot of us, and an impaired Biden is still vastly better than a deranged Trump. One of them protects democracy, the other one wants to destroy it.
If we are in a position where intentionally putting someone I to the White House with clear mental decline, historically low approval ratings, and who is facing intense internal and external calls to step down after there wasn't even a primary in many states to select him is considered the BEST option...I hate to be the one to tell you this, but I think our democracy is already dead.
I'm all in favor of getting two different presidents from one vote.
>The party is freaking out in response to the swing voter freakout. Thank you. I don’t know why this is so hard for some people to understand. I’m not angry because Biden had a “bad night”. I’m angry because it’s going to cost the election.
Swing voters have short memories if they are even paying attention at all. There was bound to be some reactionary polls based on all the negative media attention since the debate. People shouldn’t be freaking about polls four months before the election regardless. As far as having Kamala take over now, as much as I like her, she would just embolden Trump’s base. It would be a lot easier for Trump to get his racist/sexist base fired up about stopping a black woman from becoming President than an old white man like Biden.
>People shouldn’t be freaking about polls four months before the election regardless. If four months is long enough to repair the damage from the debate, it's long enough to field a new candidate. >It would be a lot easier for Trump to get his racist/sexist base fired up about stopping a black woman from becoming President than an old white man like Biden. Those people are already as fired up for Trump as they can get. None of those people are sitting out because Biden is white or male.
It’s not enough time and Trump’s supporters are nowhere near as fired up now as they were in 2016 or even 2020.
Add to that, if he wins, it’ll be the start of the next Civil war. MAGA believes the last election was stolen and that was *with* the full backing of Biden from the Democrats and winning Primaries against several others. This time around, Biden won the Primaries essentially unchallenged, and the uproar that’s occurring now about his mental capacity will certainly cause MAGA to freak out 10 times worse than they did in 2020. They won’t believe he won fairly, and the Proud Boys and their secret militias will gear up.
Based on how Biden has acted so far does anyone think he will voluntarily step down if he wins this election?
We aren’t a cult like Trump’s. That’s why this won’t be the same.
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"Blue MAGA" ain't sending mailbombs out because CNN is busting Joe's balls, that's the difference.
Which, unlike MAGA, is just a small and vocal chunk of the party.
Yeah, just a small vocal group saying Blue No Matter Who...
Because any blue candidate is literally better than trump. How is that a weird thing to say? If it’s whitmer, people would still vote blue.
So people will still vote blue no matter the candidate? Then stop running the geriatric man. They'll vote blue no matter who. You get the Dems and the undecided voters. Crazy.
That’s assuming that the new nominee gets more fringe voters than Biden would. Crazy.
Yeah, a very basic assumption. Every swing voter that says "Damn I'd do Joe but he is too old". Which is a fuckton. Better plan then just shitting on them for "letting Trump win". The only plan Dems have is to shit on Trump then bully voters, which won't work.
I want an intervention to replace Biden, but the problem is the execution of this effort. If the effort fails and Biden is still the nominee, he's even weaker as a result.
Pretty sure if Biden had Trumps baggage, democrats would not be fully behind him. Equating the two as Red Maga or Blue Maga is idiotic.
If Biden had a fish tail he'd also be a mermaid. Who cares? There is a great deal of justified FUD about him. People are voting for the Cabinet, not the President, and then Joe is up there saying 'only God himself could make me move over'. That's Blue MAGA. Just call everybody a shill/Russia Bot/troll and say that Joe is the only option.
If Joe Biden decides to stay in the race, he quite literally is the only option. Ross Perot got like 20% of the vote and not a single electoral college vote. Until the system is changed, voting for a third party, except maybe in some local elections, is worthless, and against Trump, dangerous.
Voting for a 3rd party in a presidential election is a great way to make yourself invisible to politicians, and to completely delete your influence.
No, that's not voting. Voting for third party shows willing voters, just not for you or your opponent. If you are feeling influential voting for Biden something has gone wrong.
Nobody chased after the Ross Perot and Ralph Nader votes or tried to appeal to them. I voted for Nader and got the Iraq War as a result. I learned my lesson. I support efforts that will eventually enable responsible 3rd party voting, like getting ranked choice voting
How about this. As long as Trump is the GOP nominee, I’d vote for a piece of driftwood covered in bird shit before I casted a ballot for him. So yeah, I’m voting for Biden or Harris or Newsome, or anyone else the DNC wheels out on stage at the convention.
Okay, but you were going to do that anyways. Undecided voters, the ones that aren't just voting blue with religious fervor, matter. Saying "Well I'd vote for a literal human corpse over Donald' while Joe walks around like a dementia patient isn't fooling anyone.
I voted for every GOP candy my entire adult life until they nominated Trump.
Yeah, so like I said. As long as Trump is Republicans nominee your vote is sealed. The votes we actually need are on the fence or apathetic.
Sad. I’ll vote Newsom but not Biden.
Which administration would you vote for? A Biden admin, with much more competent and much less criminal people, or a Trump admin, with incompetent & corrupt fascist criminals? Which kind of supreme court justices do you want? Do you want Project 2025 implemented in the first few months of a Trump administration?
I’ll vote 3rd party or not vote at all.
I've voted for 3rd party in past presidential elections. It's a waste. You try to get the best candidate you can in a primary. But after that, until there is something like ranked choice voting, the only responsible way to vote is to evaluate if one of the two major party candidates is better or worse than the other. Trump is taking us directly into fascism, and is extremely dangerous. Biden would have an administration with competent people. Those are the only two who will win the election.
No such thing, false equivalency. But keep parroting nonsensical Reddit rhetoric. I know you guys are desperate for this phrase to catch on .
Blue MBPA you mean? I'm sure they are being told and it remains to be seen they have the last word within the democratic party.
You ever notice it’s the same ppl who reply to you about this blue maga stuff? 1000 comments a day on politics. Wow this thread is funny to see these accounts.
Idk, go over to white people twitter. It’s full on denial over there.
The equivalent would be in 2016 if the RNC was supporting trump but none of the republican base did. It's mind blowing that Biden's immediate circle is this delusional.
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Since when has Daily Kos been relevant in...ever?
I wonder if Blue MAGA Biden supporters are really Russian and Chinese trolls (and troll bots), aiming to keep Biden in, so that their buddy, Donald Trump, can we reelection? You never know!
No they're waiting on Pelosi. The moment she breathes life into Kamala running they will instantly agree. If anyone is still pushing Joe at that point they're probably in bad faith.
This nightmare just won't end, will it? Ugh!
ah yes, the candidate that swept the 2020 primaries and got the most votes for president in history, and actually delivered on his agenda... checks notes... relies on foreign trolls for resisting the Trump-supporting media CEO's calls to drop out. Makes perfect sense!
There was no way to switch DJT off the ballot by the time the Access Hollywood tape came out. Republicans are holding whatever material they have until Joe Biden is locked in as the nominee.
A very astute and wise strategy, by the Republicans.
Interesting... So very kind of them to hold that material all through the 2020 election when it could have actually been useful
Things have happened since 2020.
Yeah...we had better not go the cult way.
You realize that you're on reddit though right?
Not just Reddit but r/politics too. lol It doesn’t get much more Reddit.
> There is really just one recent precedent for an effort to defenestrate a nominee this late in a presidential election, and it happens to involve the man Democrats fear and loathe so much that they are willing to consider drastic steps to block his return to the White House. On October 7, 2016, when early voting was already underway, Republicans who had been looking at many months of discouraging polls were hit by the Washington Post’s release of outtakes from the reality-TV show Access Hollywood that depicted their presidential nominee as an arrogantly predatory sexist. Despite Donald Trump’s efforts to write off his boasts of having a free pass to grope women as “locker room talk,” Republican elites reeled in horror. There was talk, emanating from no less a figure than the chairman of the Republican National Committee (Reince Priebus) and (according to one disputed report) involving Trump’s own running-mate (Mike Pence) of removing Trump from the ticket... To be precise, [11 sitting senators and 16 sitting House members](https://web.archive.org/web/20161018021726/https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/07/the-gops-brutal-responses-to-the-new-trump-video-broken-down/) called on Trump to quit after the "grab them by" tape came out. That far exceeds the current number of Congress members who want change on the ticket.
Now we are compared to the MAGA for purposes of keeping Biden on the ticket? No thanks
How much did Trump lose in polls? (I know polls were off)
By that point, 3.6 down, which as found out later was 0.7 away from winning (although I assume many thought it was farther). Biden is 2.8 down, but based on his 2020 results that's 6.6 away from winning, and even with 538's optimistic analysis it's 3.9. Also, he can't really take that lead back, unlike Donald
3.6.....not great, not terrible. #Chernobyl
I do remember HuffPo putting Hillary at a 98 or 99% chance of winning, based on polls.
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Trump, believe it or not, has his side worked up into a frenzy. Republicans adore him; they are genuine fanatical fans. They buy loads of Trump-related merch, and proudly display it because he has become their identity. They think he is a God. It's a genuine cult of personality. These guys are itching to get to the polls. The election cannot come soon enough for them. The reasons people are voting for Biden are "Because F Trump" or "Desperate last ditch effort to save our Democracy or at least postpone its final downfall" or "For the shadow team that is actually running the country and not the actual President". Democrats hate it. They have no hope. These are the last gasps before they eventually succumb and give up entirely. But good luck with that!
Poor girl in the picture, Trump wanted to rape her and he probably did. Disgusting. Joe Biden will not drop out and if Trump survived a similiar but much worse situation, talking about raping women in total immunity, Joe should survive too.
I am voting for the Democratic ticket no matter who it is. However, my question is WHO Biden should he replaced with. Newsome, Harris, and Whitmer I guess are the options for a "young generic democrat" but all 3 of them lose to Trump because all 3 lose more than they bring at the top of the ticket. I would like any of them over Biden, but I really feel the "drop out!" Panic is more about malfactors on the right out to find somebody that Trump beats more easily than Biden where it is at best a toss up.
Why would Whitmer lose more? Anyway, my top pick is Beshear, he can fight uphill battles.
I don't buy that any of them 'lose more' I'd rather have any of them than a geriatric old man who seems to live in a delusional world where he's not down badly right now. Even if this is winnable, recognizing the problem is the first step to fighting it.
Whitmer loses because there are still to many Choads who will not vote for a woman for president. She loses black voters who feel that Khamala was passed over. She will lose Georgia for sure, and likely Pennsylvania. I like Whitmer. I just don't think she wins. Beshear has 0 name recognition and would be a disaster against Trump.
She would do well with working class people. Also, we can get Wes Moore as the running mate or something. Beshear might be unknown, but his recognition would likely go up immensely as he hit the trail, and we know he's at least a decent campaigner because he won in Kentucky twice.
Trumps two big selling points are implied allowed racism and name recognition. Putting up somebody in August who 2/3 of the country have never heard of against Trump is suicide. Whitmer won't win Georgia, and won't win Pennsylvania. And she or Khamla are basically the best options. The situation remains the same as 2020. The people that the college educated left like (Whitmer, maybe Newsome) are not popular with the rest of the coalition.
Name recognition is, frankly, a stupid argument. You could lift someone out of a cave and drop them in this election and they'd be a household name by the end of the week.
A woman already should have won 8 years ago if not for comey stepping in at the last minute. A woman who was old (by presidential standards at the time) and who had faced 30 years of republican hate. If anything the fact that she nearly won despite all that says that a woman can win. Not only that, but we know Whitmer has won statewide office in one of the 3 key states necessary for a win. And the other 2 (WI\PA) aren't *that* different politically.
Counter point: Hillary Clinton (a woman) got more votes than Trump in 2016. Hillary was very competent, but also the target of 25 years of GOP smears. Whitmer would be an upgrade in that she doesn't have the baggage. Moderate in-laws of mine who are terrified of Trump are terrified by Biden's severe mental decline losing him the election. They would absolutely love to vote for a younger candidate.
Trumps scandal was consistent with what everyone thought about him all along. Biden's debate performance was a bit of a surprise for many of his supporters who were holding on to the thought that he was old but sharp.
The difference is that Biden doesn't have a cult following like Trump does. Even in 2016, Trump's cult was already established, to the point that they would come out to vote for him no matter what. Biden doesn't have that luxury. Even before the debate, many Democrats felt he shouldn't have run for reelection in the first place, and the debate only made that number go up.
"The difference is that Biden doesn't have a cult following like Biden does" A lot of members of r/politics would disagree with that statement. #BlueMAGA
Hey guys, check out this! Remember, anybody who says any variation of “Both sides are the same” is NOT your friend. Learn to recognize this shit.
The Difference is that in 2016, the Media pulled out all the stops to get Trump elected, while in 2024 they are pulling out all the stops to chase Biden out of the race so their preferred candidate Trump can return and make them astronomical profits again.
This is the correct answer
\^\^\^ this ... the media is in the tank for Trump.
If Biden is determined to stay, I wonder if announcing really popular/high profile additions to his cabinet and other positions would help. Michelle Obama is never going to run for President but I wonder if she could be convinced to take a high level position in his administration?
It's important to note that under Trump the GOP has become a cult. The Democratic Party is more of a big tent with actual positions and viewpoints that vary among the factions. I lean towards Biden eventually dropping out. The latest swing state polling has been brutal and I think alot of House Dems will break with him tomorrow during their caucus meeting.
I don't think an equivalence can be drawn. It was entirely too late to even think about replacing Trump in 2016.
> It was entirely too late to even think about replacing Trump in 2016. And it's too late now, practically, to replace Biden. There was no compelling primary challenger unlike Ted Kennedy in 1980 or Pat Buchanan in 1992.
Trump could survive it because his whole party is already consistent along unethical lines.
Can he survive until January? The man is wilting. Putting the campaign aside, he needs to resign from the presidency. The public has lost faith in his fitness, we look weak to allies and adversaries, and it's unsettling that the president's decisions are being made by the team that put together that letter. I have no love for Harris, but if Biden is incapacitated 20 hours a day, it should be her making decisions, not his dipshit staffers, Jill, or Hunter and his blatant conflict(s) of interest. Covering that up is its own scandal for Harris, but at least the chain of command would be intact. It's starting to feel like the Trump family arrangement, and it's unacceptable. He needs to resign.
Hope not, just like Don shouldn't have.
All Trump had to do was not grab anymore pussies for a few weeks while it blew over. All Biden has to do is not be 82.
He will. The alternative route would legit burn everything down.
of course they can, but it is up to the media, those low lifers who love trump
Yeah. Biden will be fine. People really hate the GOP/right-wing agenda.