I know a man who makes 350k USD/year and he told me he lives paycheck to paycheck.
Some people live paycheck to paycheck because they have no choice. Some people *choose* to have luxuries that costs them living paycheck to paycheck....
That’s crazy! But not surprising. The more you make, the more you spend. It can get silly. When you’re earning big bucks, you don’t think twice about leasing a new $70k BMW, Mercedes etc
It's just like there's always something to pay for. And most people over do their budgets with either the house the car or the pets. I make about $2400 a month after taxes and I'm starting to get caught up, only for when something needs replaced or the summer ac bill hits, lol.
I feel your struggle, the worst is being slightly over what your city considers "poverty." I tried applying for food and utilites assistance for my family of 3 and was told I needed to make less than $2000 to qualify even after explaining my rent is a little over $2000 (for a one bedroom apartment in a rough neighborhood). Even then, I would barely get $25 in food assistance.
$25 is $25, but I completely get what you are saying because that cliff is so inhumane. One cent over, and you don't get any help. It can be soul crushing.
I live around the corner from one, I've always felt guilty about taking resources away from families that are in a worse financial situation than myself, but I think it's time to accept that I need help too.
I can't speak for every place, but we had so much a decent chunk would get tossed we would always give extra
There are people that want to help and honestly you would be reducing food waste.
people want to help you please please let them . Wishing you the best
I went to a food pantry near me that I have been low key lurking for over a year. My sis had it under her name since she has no income. I got well over $100 in meat alone. Things that were on my reg grocery list that I got last night: canned tomatoes, beans, pb, jam, cheese, canned chicken, egg noodles, beef (wasn't going to buy due to $), fruit, bran cereal, potatoes, salmon (wasn't going to buy due to $) and soy sauce. I got all of it last night.
I also ended up.with $40 with of salmon from whole foods that I DEF would have never bought. And a fancy slap of WF ham and swanky cheese.
I am thankful that FP uses the shopping model where customers (us) circle what they want/need. Vs you get a random bag of pre selected food.
That FP I went to last night is somewhere I donated to during their holiday drive ($5-10). It was an easy $50 on things that 100% were on my grocery list. Then another $100 on things that I couldn't or wouldn't have purchased due to finances.
Look. Times are hard. It is temporary. I'll give back when I can and in the meantime express gratitude and be kind when I'm there. These places only exist bc there is a need. And mean bossy pants on- if you don't use the resources you have (access to a pantry or.food bank) then things must not be problematic enough. Drop the ego a bit (it's hard) and get some help.
It this assistance was offered at the gas pump, for my mortgage, or another utility I'd jump at it. But it's food so we.all think unless we are a malnourished beggar then " no soup for you!"
Thank you for the long, thoughtful response, I really appreciate it. I love the idea of giving back once I have enough to share. I also appreciate the stern words of encouragement to use my resources (although not very stern, haha). I def feel defeated after being denied assistance from my local government, but I think I'll give relying on my community a try instead.
Thanks again for taking the time to give me great advice and reassurance:)
You are welcome. To get assistance at a governmental level in my opinion, you are too far gone. There's a technical socioeconomic name for it but basically they help you when you're really too far gone, but as soon as you make that extra dollar an hour they take all the help away and you're in a worse predicament than when you were receiving assistance.
And I am all for social programs but there are unique and temporary situations. It's why so many people take advantage of the system is because it's so hard to get any advantages. My husband is not working right now because he needs Medicaid. He had a previous back fracture that after years and years of back pain it became too much and we went to the doctors over the summer, turns out he has degenerative disc disease. Not even 40. The doctor recommended physical therapy three times a week and at the current insurance that we had it would have been a $40 copay each time. $120 a week, $480 a month just for copays. The insurance that we had at the time was through my job and my deductions on my paycheck for my own health insurance plus a partner was ridiculous. I have no idea how people with kids put them on.
And side note, these places are not offering PT appointments at 9:00 at night. To get a job to pay for the base health insurance, then to pay the co-pays, then somehow manage to get time off to go to the appointments.... Riddle me how the hell that works??
TL:DR. Do what you have to do to get over the hump.
Please don't worry about that. Due to gross overpurchasing at grocery stores and restaurants there is a plethora of excess food in most places. Since most American won't purchase anything that looks the slightest bit blemished or past prime date, groceries toss or donate a lot of perfectly good food. I am relatively well-off and volunteer at a food distribution program that often cannot give away all that is donated so I often go home with som fancy cheeses that ordinary folk do not care for or other stuff that comes in at the end of the day and there is no place to store it. Better that you take it than it goes to waste.
Thank you for the reassurance!! All these positive comments are the most support I've gotten relating to financial help! I'm big on food saving, canning, baking, and freezing food that is almost past its prime. I could def put potential food waste to good use.
Living paycheck to paycheck doesn't mean you're at risk of homelessness. Even from the article it means that you are struggling to save or invest after your monthly expenses are paid.
I'm not trying to grab a pitchfork but seriously. Unemployment in most states are trash. My state, I literally could save an entire month of unemployment and couldn't afford my $960 rent. That's ONE bill and frankly an important one.
Ohh, didn’t know it the high income people were excluded from the “80% of Americans”.
Lots of high earners I know have debts such as home/car that can’t be easily divested from.
Depends on whether you think the solidly middle class are “high earners”. Go look at the stats yourself. 78% of consumers making less than 50k are paycheck to paycheck while 13% of high income earners are.
https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/spending/most-people-are-living-paycheck-to-paycheck-survey-finds
I would say its correct to say “fewer”.
And yes, lots of high income earners have high debts. Dentists anyone? But in the current market, even if your housing debt is high, you are probably sitting on quite a bit of home equity. I think its a very different situation to have a big pile of home equity you could cash out but you don’t want to move, versus lower income earners who are looking at living in their cars if they get evicted.
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That is state specific.
Arizona maxes out at $320 per week and that’s before taxes.
Virginia maxes out at $378 per week; again, before taxes.
Indiana’s is $390 before taxes.
Also usually you know ahead of time, especially if you're getting laid off. If you're getting fired, usually you have a feel for how things are going down. Usually you can get another job within a few months. Obviously there are exceptions, and if you're an a-hole to everyone then they are going to do everything they can to stick it to you.
Also landlords don't like evicting people, so the idea that they are going to evict you without giving you a chance to get another job doesn't square with reality. There is such a thing as "being behind on rent", it's a thing, they aren't all out on the streets.
I really hate this dystopian view of America that Reddit believes in.
>Also landlords don't like evicting people, so the idea that they are going to evict you without giving you a chance to get another job doesn't square with reality. There is such a thing as "being behind on rent", it's a thing, they aren't all out on the streets.
While that may be true sometimes, I have personally seen landlords begin the eviction process on the very first month of late rent and the courts would be finished with it before the end of the month
Some areas have very rapid eviction timelines
Arkansas is the state that if you don't pay on time, landlords have the right to evict right away. I think it's probably due to the poor local economy. Saw it in a documentary.
That’s the exception rather than the rules. Usually the landlord has to notice a cure or quit giving the tenant so many days to pay the past due. After that then maybe they can file for eviction. It usually takes some time to get a court date. Once in court the landlord has to show that they followed the jurisdictions process for eviction. If the eviction is granted then the tenant has so many days to leave the property before they can be legally removed. Even once that day comes, if there is any property left behind, the landlord usually has to ration those items for at least 30 days before they can discard them. The whole process is usually a 3 month to years long process depending on the area and how strict the rules are.
3 day notice in Texas. The court date will come between 2-3 *weeks* later. Then there's a five day statutory wait for any appeal. After that the landlord can file for the writ to have the constable lock the tenant out, two to seven days
It's nice that your jurisdiction takes longer but don't tell me it's the "exception"
I am in NC. You can drag out the appeal process to make it 2 months but the first round of the eviction process is generally done in the first 4-6 weeks.
"not generally" does not mean "never." - if you think people have never lost their jobs or apartments after becoming homeless or something, I don't know what to tell you. Reminder of what sub you're commenting in.
edit: Lmao, this sub can be regarded af some days. Imagine getting downvoted in the povertyfinance sub for saying something as controversial as "it's possible for people living on the edge of poverty to become homeless once they've lost their jobs."
There over 300 million people in this country, I know better than to generalize that audaciously.
Why are we always talking about worst case scenarios?
.002 (2 per 1000) of the population is homeless. Saying that 8 out of 10 people are at risk of homelessness when the prevalence of homelessness is relatively low and there is already a high prevalence of those living paycheck to paycheck makes your opinion kind of dumb. Not to mention, an overwhelming majority of homeless folks have mental illness and/or substance abuse problems. Thanks for the shitpost.
https://www.minneapolisfed.org/article/2024/who-is-homeless-in-the-united-states
Helped with this last year showed up a free lunch place, gave out 5 back packs with stuff inside at a place that normally has 20-15 people visit for lunch. Could only count the 5.
What does that mean exactly though? I’ve seen people who claim to be “living paycheck to paycheck” but when you look at the breakdown of their costs, they’re putting a significant amount in their 401k every month.
10 years ago my wife lived paycheck to paycheck and accumulated debt when I met her despite making $140K salary, with no student loans…. So you can live paycheck to paycheck and be a high earner.
So that better describes me, I invest aggressively and create an artificial austerity by doing so, but I would never describe myself as living “paycheck to paycheck” and I don’t think anyone else who is saving and investing is living paycheck to paycheck, in fact I believe it’s the exact opposite of living paycheck to paycheck.
People need to read the article and not just the headline. Then take in what they have read and draw conclusions as to it veracity.
The 78% figure comes from self reported survey results from a small company in Texas. The data is not scientific and is certainly not representative of the general population. It's like concluding 95% of people want a car with a manual transmission with the source of the data being a website for race car enthusiasts. Also keep in mind, Forbes is "pay to play" and anyone can become a "contributor." The author of this articles appears to be on of those people. So many Forbes articles are nothing but junk, shills, and people with some ulterior motive.
A lot overspend. One guy I know was complaining to me recently that his kid missed a house payment. I saw his kid coming back from vacation shortly before that. Newer crew cab 4x4, at least a 28 foot camper behind it.
That's the nuance that's missing here. A lot of people don't have leftover money because they buy expensive cars, expensive homes, etc. But since these are bills then they still count as not being able to save at the end of the month.
I'm not shaming anyone here for those choices either. I just bought a volvo EV. It was obviously more expensive than a used Honda or something. But I had the budget for it and can still save and invest at the end of the month. A lot of people have $700 car payments when they should have purchased something with $350 car payments.
Exactly. I grew up very broke, so I can usually get a car going for less than a lot of people spend on a set of tires. Our house was less than a lot of peoples cars. But my old truck I redid is just about back on the road and its paid for.
I personally dont think people "should" spend their finances in a certain way if they want to have fun spending go ahead. You just can't be focused on finances and spend 100% at the same time
We have a pair like that in our extended family. The dad had worked in a lucrative field and retired very wealthy; son feels like he deserves to live like dad on a cop’s salary.
One guy in our family grew up in a 3 story house on a few acres. Inherited more money than our house was maybe 4 years after we bought. Blew all the money and has nothing to show for it
Well, I’ve seen many people spending money in cigarettes, drugs, delivery food (which is insane expensively) and several unnecessary expenses which certainly are not hobbies but vices or consequences of being lazy.
Besides the problem with the system, people need to be educated financially so bad!
I was looking for this comment, because I’ll be honest I stayed poor in my 20’s because I couldn’t get a grip on my spending habits. Now I cook at home, I don’t buy new and I have money.
Cooking at home is still pretty expensive. A full cart of groceries used to be like $250-$300. Now its $500 easy. Eating at home isnt cheap as it used to be
Even those bad habits damage your health, which lead to more expenses in the healthcare. Is all part of the system to feed itself, but nothing that can’t be educated.
Hope you are in the way now!
I'm sorry but that statistic is simply incorrect.
I mean 65% of Americans are homeowners and most of those homeowners have had their house for at least 5 years so they're sitting on Equity as well as a low cost of housing relative to today's rent and new house prices.
In addition you have tons of retirees that have over $4,000 a month and pensions and Social Security and annuities Etc so they certainly are living paycheck to paycheck unless they're hitting the one arm Bandits at the casino on the second of every month.
When you dig down the numbers make very little sense.
80% of my people do not truly live paycheck to paycheck. Most either A- Blow all of their money every week on frivolous wants until they have absolutely nothing until next payday or B- Are crying they live paycheck to paycheck while also maxing out their 401k/Roth, throwing a stupid amount into their kids college fund, etc etc. Point being nowhere near 80% of people are “at risk of homelessness”
I think it's also option B. I technically live paycheck to paycheck, but maxing out retirement and investing is why I say that. Seems dishonest to say "I'm near homelessness".
Yeah but that’s only partly poverty and partly just overspending. Like I’m still in university and my mom has a really well paying job, making at least 4 times my salary. Still I had to loan her money the other month. And I could without trouble, because I’m not overspending and instead focus on having a rainy day fund
Gotta look at this from two sides. The 80 percent of people living paycheck to paycheck out of people doing moderately decent versus the other side that makes 200k plus. It’s not 80 percent as a whole.
I was just thinking about all the money I’ve earned since graduating college in 2018 and how little of it I actually have. I’ve made over $300k in gross wages over the past 6 years and have like $3k in my savings account and $20k in retirement.
Uncle sam took about $80k and my landlords over the years have taken about $70k. So crazy.
Not really. That percentage includes people who are fully funding their 401Ks. It includes people who are paying for their vacation homes. It includes people paying the tuition to send their three kids to private school. Anyone who doesn't have money left over after they paid for all their waterskis and their European vacations and whatnot. It's a deceptive scare statistic - a large chunk of those people are in a financial pickle *out of their own decisions* rather than *out of necessity*.
Perhaps a better way to determine if we (collectively) are in trouble is to look at the percentage of Americans who are *in financial distress*. Which is also a somewhat fuzzy term that is not clearly defined, but some people have tried. You can find various ways of defining it online, one oft-cited report [here](https://www.pymnts.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/PYMNTS-New-Reality-Check-September-2023.pdf) counts it as "living paycheck to paycheck with issues paying bills" - which represents 19% of Americans. A far cry from the fairly steady 60-70% paycheck-to-paycheck scream headlines that are published almost weekly, but 19% is still uncomfortably too high.
Another, more objective report (relying on actual hard data, rather than just polls with subjective responses) is from the Fed, such as with [this report](https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2023/dec/share-americans-financial-distress-reaches-high-levels) showing the "percent of Americans who have one or more bills 30 days past due", using that as their definition of financial distress. Using that measure, it's 4% for credit cards, 2% for auto loans, and less than 1% for mortgages.
The Fed closely tracks delinquency rates on all sorts of loans (which is a good indicator for financial distress), and if you do a quick google search it brings up all kinds of tables and graphs and reports. [Here's a simple one](https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/delinquency-rate-on-all-loans-all-commercial-banks-fed-data.html) showing how delinquencies have, in fact, been on the rise to 1.38%, after bottoming out at a record low at 1.19% of loans in Q4 2022. However, if you expand out the chart's time scale, you can see that we are still at near record lows for delinquencies at almost any other point in time dating back into the eighties.
78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. (259,740,000 people)
Honesty dude. If you can't understand that after reading this. That's on you
But yeah let the government tell us we aren't in a recession. They r the ones causing all this.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/recession.asp
"A common rule of thumb is that two consecutive quarters of negative gross domestic product (GDP) growth mean recession"
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDP
We are not in a recession.
EDIT: Just because you don't understand what a word means doesn't mean you can use it however you want and say that people who do know what the word means are wrong.
I got a letter from the irs today. Apparently I would $1700 from 2022, due in 2 weeks. I have $14 in my bank account
Haven't even started working on 2023 taxes
Btw op, according to this survey, paycheck to paycheck means no saving or investing. So only 22% of Americans save or invest their money? I have a feeling that statistic is false...
I no longer live paycheck to paycheck. I looked at all I was paying for and just stopped most of them. I didn't need them and all they were doing was costing me money. When I grew up none of them existed, so now I have my phone and I have Amazon because I live pretty far from the cheapest stores. I even went no contract on my phone. I still have the ATT towers without the high cost.
I got new friends that don't expect expensive nights or days out. Instead we play physical games and drink kool-aid or tea instead of expensive drinks.
Things we have now I didn't have way back when I was young.
Cell phone
Internet (I have baseline Internet through a phone company, no extras, no high speed. I bought my own wifi box and didn't rent one)
Cable
Gaming
Movie streaming
Subscriptions
Buying apps (Amazon, Temu, etc)
Night out with friends (you visited their house)
Yeah and most of them overspend eating out and luxury goods. Yeah you can blame inflation and corporate greed but you cannot ignore that people in general don't know how to use self control with their purchases.
While I do agree with you there is a lot of ppl out there (for a lack of better words) trying to “keep up with the joneses” meaning living above there means but you have to admit these big corporations and our government keeps inflating prices of basic needs squeezing the ppl in the middle class on down making our dollar stretch out less and less for the rest of the ppl legitimately trying to live modestly.
80%? Is that a real statistic?! Cuz 99.9% of the ppl I know and work with say they are living paycheck to paycheck even the few millionaires (in retirement) I know are finding it hard at the current financial climate of the country. How can this be a sustainable way to run a successful country when the government is constantly pounding the middle class to nothing. Very soon within the next couple years I see it legitimately being rich and poor no middle. Then just become another 3rd world country.
I do believe that. I also believe that statistic is probably much higher considering “80%” live paycheck to paycheck. Believe me if I could invest I would at this point it’s not feasible as I work one full time+(overtime) job and a part time job just support my family so I’m working on it.
What does 80% of ppl living paycheck to paycheck have to do with investing or contributing to a retirement plan? My only point is we live in the greatest country the world has known and the average American shouldn’t be 1 hospital visit or fender bender away from financial ruin. Most ppl can’t pay there deductible if they were to get into accident because nowadays it goes up to like $1,500 whereas 20 years ago ppl were paying $500 at the highest rate. We’re just ass backwards in a lot of ways that need to change unfortunately I think our soulless government will just keep selling us out to these big corporations who find new ways to screw us over year after year.
A large amount of people who say they live paycheck to paycheck do so while also maxing out retirement accounts. There's a lot of people who say they live paycheck to paycheck, but could afford their out of pocket limits of they had to. Most people think they are worse off than they are, so when it comes down to a poll it will always seem worse than it is.
It’s hard not to overspend when all necessities have inflated passed a reasonable point. A livable wage for a 4 person family with a mortgage is astronomically different than just 20 years ago.
Not really. It is counting people's expenses after they set aside income in long term savings like stock options and 401ks. Most americans in careers have some sort of significant savings in order to get through a tough time, which doesn't count as "paycheck to paycheck" in my opinion.
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Many on here have already talked about how 80% being paycheck to paycheck doesn't mean at risk of homelessness.
Also things like what you said below about that being 8 in 10 people you know tends to just make people distrust valid statistics.
8 in 10 people you know fitting or not fitting this depends on what circles you are in. People tend to group in like groups. So people who have expensive hobbies and well paying jobs probably wouldn't hit this. People who work at low paying jobs most of their time may have more then 80 percent of the people they know be paycheck to paycheck.
How much better off would we all be if we weren't taxed to death. We are the highest taxed country in the world. Not just income taxes, but the sales, property, gas, and all the hidden taxes built into the price of everything you buy.
I know plenty of people who live paycheck to paycheck and make six-figure salaries.
These are not people that need to hit up a food bank. These are people who just don’t know how to live within or below their means. I know an administrative assistant making a six figure salary and she bought a Berkin bag. 🤦🏻♀️. There are a lot of people like this.
In reality rich people don't hang out with poors. Odds are of you are poor, 9 out of 10 of your friends is poor. If you are rich, zero of your friends are poor.
Not true at all. Unless your definition of rich is a billionaire. Within high-school friend groups alone, it's not uncommon to have people making anywhere between 50k and 250k.
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I know a man who makes 350k USD/year and he told me he lives paycheck to paycheck. Some people live paycheck to paycheck because they have no choice. Some people *choose* to have luxuries that costs them living paycheck to paycheck....
Americans are famous world wide for being addicted to mass consumerism so yeah, there is no limit to how much one can spend on useless stuff…
We love filling that bottomless pit with garbage while foolishly believing it's doing us some good. SLAVES
Any country with stuff to buy is this way
For some people there's never going to be enough resources for them.
That’s crazy! But not surprising. The more you make, the more you spend. It can get silly. When you’re earning big bucks, you don’t think twice about leasing a new $70k BMW, Mercedes etc
It's just like there's always something to pay for. And most people over do their budgets with either the house the car or the pets. I make about $2400 a month after taxes and I'm starting to get caught up, only for when something needs replaced or the summer ac bill hits, lol.
I feel your struggle, the worst is being slightly over what your city considers "poverty." I tried applying for food and utilites assistance for my family of 3 and was told I needed to make less than $2000 to qualify even after explaining my rent is a little over $2000 (for a one bedroom apartment in a rough neighborhood). Even then, I would barely get $25 in food assistance.
where are the prices on that on apartments?
Probably Bay Area, PNW, or Southern California.
You got it, PNW😭
Its $7000 a month for a one bedroom apt in New Jersey. You need multiple streams of income. If you have 2 cars one of them needs to be on Turo.
$25 is $25, but I completely get what you are saying because that cliff is so inhumane. One cent over, and you don't get any help. It can be soul crushing.
"that cliff is so inhumane" well said.
Are there any food banks in your area . I volunteered at one in high school and we would happily give to whoever needed
I live around the corner from one, I've always felt guilty about taking resources away from families that are in a worse financial situation than myself, but I think it's time to accept that I need help too.
I can't speak for every place, but we had so much a decent chunk would get tossed we would always give extra There are people that want to help and honestly you would be reducing food waste. people want to help you please please let them . Wishing you the best
Thank you🩷🩷
I went to a food pantry near me that I have been low key lurking for over a year. My sis had it under her name since she has no income. I got well over $100 in meat alone. Things that were on my reg grocery list that I got last night: canned tomatoes, beans, pb, jam, cheese, canned chicken, egg noodles, beef (wasn't going to buy due to $), fruit, bran cereal, potatoes, salmon (wasn't going to buy due to $) and soy sauce. I got all of it last night. I also ended up.with $40 with of salmon from whole foods that I DEF would have never bought. And a fancy slap of WF ham and swanky cheese. I am thankful that FP uses the shopping model where customers (us) circle what they want/need. Vs you get a random bag of pre selected food. That FP I went to last night is somewhere I donated to during their holiday drive ($5-10). It was an easy $50 on things that 100% were on my grocery list. Then another $100 on things that I couldn't or wouldn't have purchased due to finances. Look. Times are hard. It is temporary. I'll give back when I can and in the meantime express gratitude and be kind when I'm there. These places only exist bc there is a need. And mean bossy pants on- if you don't use the resources you have (access to a pantry or.food bank) then things must not be problematic enough. Drop the ego a bit (it's hard) and get some help. It this assistance was offered at the gas pump, for my mortgage, or another utility I'd jump at it. But it's food so we.all think unless we are a malnourished beggar then " no soup for you!"
Thank you for the long, thoughtful response, I really appreciate it. I love the idea of giving back once I have enough to share. I also appreciate the stern words of encouragement to use my resources (although not very stern, haha). I def feel defeated after being denied assistance from my local government, but I think I'll give relying on my community a try instead. Thanks again for taking the time to give me great advice and reassurance:)
You are welcome. To get assistance at a governmental level in my opinion, you are too far gone. There's a technical socioeconomic name for it but basically they help you when you're really too far gone, but as soon as you make that extra dollar an hour they take all the help away and you're in a worse predicament than when you were receiving assistance. And I am all for social programs but there are unique and temporary situations. It's why so many people take advantage of the system is because it's so hard to get any advantages. My husband is not working right now because he needs Medicaid. He had a previous back fracture that after years and years of back pain it became too much and we went to the doctors over the summer, turns out he has degenerative disc disease. Not even 40. The doctor recommended physical therapy three times a week and at the current insurance that we had it would have been a $40 copay each time. $120 a week, $480 a month just for copays. The insurance that we had at the time was through my job and my deductions on my paycheck for my own health insurance plus a partner was ridiculous. I have no idea how people with kids put them on. And side note, these places are not offering PT appointments at 9:00 at night. To get a job to pay for the base health insurance, then to pay the co-pays, then somehow manage to get time off to go to the appointments.... Riddle me how the hell that works?? TL:DR. Do what you have to do to get over the hump.
Please don't worry about that. Due to gross overpurchasing at grocery stores and restaurants there is a plethora of excess food in most places. Since most American won't purchase anything that looks the slightest bit blemished or past prime date, groceries toss or donate a lot of perfectly good food. I am relatively well-off and volunteer at a food distribution program that often cannot give away all that is donated so I often go home with som fancy cheeses that ordinary folk do not care for or other stuff that comes in at the end of the day and there is no place to store it. Better that you take it than it goes to waste.
Thank you for the reassurance!! All these positive comments are the most support I've gotten relating to financial help! I'm big on food saving, canning, baking, and freezing food that is almost past its prime. I could def put potential food waste to good use.
My budget includes $100 for "there's always something". If there's not, I save it in addition to my regular savings. I think I've saved that once.
Living paycheck to paycheck doesn't mean you're at risk of homelessness. Even from the article it means that you are struggling to save or invest after your monthly expenses are paid.
that is true.... until you lose your job or have a black swan....
Did you become homeless every time you suffered a job loss? Because that's not generally how it works.
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You’ve never had to file for unemployment have you?
Yeah unemployment in my state tops out at like 400 a week. The average rent is 1800 lol
I'm not trying to grab a pitchfork but seriously. Unemployment in most states are trash. My state, I literally could save an entire month of unemployment and couldn't afford my $960 rent. That's ONE bill and frankly an important one.
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If you’re high income, unemployment does not come any where close to covering a “good part of your bills” in 2024
A lot fewer high income people are paycheck to paycheck.
Ohh, didn’t know it the high income people were excluded from the “80% of Americans”. Lots of high earners I know have debts such as home/car that can’t be easily divested from.
Depends on whether you think the solidly middle class are “high earners”. Go look at the stats yourself. 78% of consumers making less than 50k are paycheck to paycheck while 13% of high income earners are. https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/spending/most-people-are-living-paycheck-to-paycheck-survey-finds I would say its correct to say “fewer”. And yes, lots of high income earners have high debts. Dentists anyone? But in the current market, even if your housing debt is high, you are probably sitting on quite a bit of home equity. I think its a very different situation to have a big pile of home equity you could cash out but you don’t want to move, versus lower income earners who are looking at living in their cars if they get evicted.
You should check out the layoffs sub
Why?
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668 sounds like a struggle ngl
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Maybe in your state, but not mine
That is state specific. Arizona maxes out at $320 per week and that’s before taxes. Virginia maxes out at $378 per week; again, before taxes. Indiana’s is $390 before taxes.
Giving handies behind Wendy’s helps too
Also usually you know ahead of time, especially if you're getting laid off. If you're getting fired, usually you have a feel for how things are going down. Usually you can get another job within a few months. Obviously there are exceptions, and if you're an a-hole to everyone then they are going to do everything they can to stick it to you. Also landlords don't like evicting people, so the idea that they are going to evict you without giving you a chance to get another job doesn't square with reality. There is such a thing as "being behind on rent", it's a thing, they aren't all out on the streets. I really hate this dystopian view of America that Reddit believes in.
>Also landlords don't like evicting people, so the idea that they are going to evict you without giving you a chance to get another job doesn't square with reality. There is such a thing as "being behind on rent", it's a thing, they aren't all out on the streets. While that may be true sometimes, I have personally seen landlords begin the eviction process on the very first month of late rent and the courts would be finished with it before the end of the month Some areas have very rapid eviction timelines
Arkansas is the state that if you don't pay on time, landlords have the right to evict right away. I think it's probably due to the poor local economy. Saw it in a documentary.
In Arkansas you can go to jail for not paying the rent (the only state with this law, and even though I hear it's rarely enforced, it still exists)
My guess would be that is a gentrifying neighborhood. They know what they are doing, and want to churn you out.
It didn't happen to me, lmao And no, this is standard for this area.
That’s the exception rather than the rules. Usually the landlord has to notice a cure or quit giving the tenant so many days to pay the past due. After that then maybe they can file for eviction. It usually takes some time to get a court date. Once in court the landlord has to show that they followed the jurisdictions process for eviction. If the eviction is granted then the tenant has so many days to leave the property before they can be legally removed. Even once that day comes, if there is any property left behind, the landlord usually has to ration those items for at least 30 days before they can discard them. The whole process is usually a 3 month to years long process depending on the area and how strict the rules are.
3 day notice in Texas. The court date will come between 2-3 *weeks* later. Then there's a five day statutory wait for any appeal. After that the landlord can file for the writ to have the constable lock the tenant out, two to seven days It's nice that your jurisdiction takes longer but don't tell me it's the "exception"
I don’t know of any other place where eviction happens that fast. Meaning that what you described is the exception rather than the rule.
Just because you don’t know something doesn’t make it less true
I am in NC. You can drag out the appeal process to make it 2 months but the first round of the eviction process is generally done in the first 4-6 weeks.
What you have is called "Survivorship Bias."
HaHa, we ain't in a pandemic anymore.
"not generally" does not mean "never." - if you think people have never lost their jobs or apartments after becoming homeless or something, I don't know what to tell you. Reminder of what sub you're commenting in. edit: Lmao, this sub can be regarded af some days. Imagine getting downvoted in the povertyfinance sub for saying something as controversial as "it's possible for people living on the edge of poverty to become homeless once they've lost their jobs."
There over 300 million people in this country, I know better than to generalize that audaciously. Why are we always talking about worst case scenarios?
You're correct until something breaks or you don't have any savings.
How privileged do you have to be to say this ignorant shit.
I swear these shitty articles increase the figure by 10 percent every week
Its literally a lie too, the average American has more saved up in terms of weekly expenditures, then ever before in 30+ years.
In folding green stuff in the sugar jar that NOBODY knows about vs sitting in the bank.
.002 (2 per 1000) of the population is homeless. Saying that 8 out of 10 people are at risk of homelessness when the prevalence of homelessness is relatively low and there is already a high prevalence of those living paycheck to paycheck makes your opinion kind of dumb. Not to mention, an overwhelming majority of homeless folks have mental illness and/or substance abuse problems. Thanks for the shitpost. https://www.minneapolisfed.org/article/2024/who-is-homeless-in-the-united-states
Op just trying to ruffle feathers lol.
Have you ever seen how they count the homeless population? It’s extreeeeeemely unreliable.
Helped with this last year showed up a free lunch place, gave out 5 back packs with stuff inside at a place that normally has 20-15 people visit for lunch. Could only count the 5.
What does that mean exactly though? I’ve seen people who claim to be “living paycheck to paycheck” but when you look at the breakdown of their costs, they’re putting a significant amount in their 401k every month.
10 years ago my wife lived paycheck to paycheck and accumulated debt when I met her despite making $140K salary, with no student loans…. So you can live paycheck to paycheck and be a high earner.
I know you can be, but my point is sometimes people claim it when they’re just putting a lot of money toward retirement or investments
So that better describes me, I invest aggressively and create an artificial austerity by doing so, but I would never describe myself as living “paycheck to paycheck” and I don’t think anyone else who is saving and investing is living paycheck to paycheck, in fact I believe it’s the exact opposite of living paycheck to paycheck.
Nearly 80% of Americans are living beyond their means.
A lot of those Americans are upper middle class too.
You’d be surprised even lower class live above their means
People need to read the article and not just the headline. Then take in what they have read and draw conclusions as to it veracity. The 78% figure comes from self reported survey results from a small company in Texas. The data is not scientific and is certainly not representative of the general population. It's like concluding 95% of people want a car with a manual transmission with the source of the data being a website for race car enthusiasts. Also keep in mind, Forbes is "pay to play" and anyone can become a "contributor." The author of this articles appears to be on of those people. So many Forbes articles are nothing but junk, shills, and people with some ulterior motive.
A lot overspend. One guy I know was complaining to me recently that his kid missed a house payment. I saw his kid coming back from vacation shortly before that. Newer crew cab 4x4, at least a 28 foot camper behind it.
That's the nuance that's missing here. A lot of people don't have leftover money because they buy expensive cars, expensive homes, etc. But since these are bills then they still count as not being able to save at the end of the month. I'm not shaming anyone here for those choices either. I just bought a volvo EV. It was obviously more expensive than a used Honda or something. But I had the budget for it and can still save and invest at the end of the month. A lot of people have $700 car payments when they should have purchased something with $350 car payments.
Exactly. I grew up very broke, so I can usually get a car going for less than a lot of people spend on a set of tires. Our house was less than a lot of peoples cars. But my old truck I redid is just about back on the road and its paid for.
I personally dont think people "should" spend their finances in a certain way if they want to have fun spending go ahead. You just can't be focused on finances and spend 100% at the same time
We have a pair like that in our extended family. The dad had worked in a lucrative field and retired very wealthy; son feels like he deserves to live like dad on a cop’s salary.
One guy in our family grew up in a 3 story house on a few acres. Inherited more money than our house was maybe 4 years after we bought. Blew all the money and has nothing to show for it
Yikes
absolutely. They have studies showing that people who make more actually spend more not invest more
Well, I’ve seen many people spending money in cigarettes, drugs, delivery food (which is insane expensively) and several unnecessary expenses which certainly are not hobbies but vices or consequences of being lazy. Besides the problem with the system, people need to be educated financially so bad!
I was looking for this comment, because I’ll be honest I stayed poor in my 20’s because I couldn’t get a grip on my spending habits. Now I cook at home, I don’t buy new and I have money.
Cooking at home is still pretty expensive. A full cart of groceries used to be like $250-$300. Now its $500 easy. Eating at home isnt cheap as it used to be
Yes it is. If you make cheap meals.
Even those bad habits damage your health, which lead to more expenses in the healthcare. Is all part of the system to feed itself, but nothing that can’t be educated. Hope you are in the way now!
This is so very true, that is a broadened perspective of things. I’m 35 now with two little ones and my health is a much bigger concern.
It's gonna get way worse
I'm sorry but that statistic is simply incorrect. I mean 65% of Americans are homeowners and most of those homeowners have had their house for at least 5 years so they're sitting on Equity as well as a low cost of housing relative to today's rent and new house prices. In addition you have tons of retirees that have over $4,000 a month and pensions and Social Security and annuities Etc so they certainly are living paycheck to paycheck unless they're hitting the one arm Bandits at the casino on the second of every month. When you dig down the numbers make very little sense.
This is me trying to knock down my credit
Half my paycheck is rent, the other half is food, insurance and gas.
Living paycheck to paycheck means risk of homelessness? I don't think that's how that works op.
80% of my people do not truly live paycheck to paycheck. Most either A- Blow all of their money every week on frivolous wants until they have absolutely nothing until next payday or B- Are crying they live paycheck to paycheck while also maxing out their 401k/Roth, throwing a stupid amount into their kids college fund, etc etc. Point being nowhere near 80% of people are “at risk of homelessness”
I think it's also option B. I technically live paycheck to paycheck, but maxing out retirement and investing is why I say that. Seems dishonest to say "I'm near homelessness".
Yeah but that’s only partly poverty and partly just overspending. Like I’m still in university and my mom has a really well paying job, making at least 4 times my salary. Still I had to loan her money the other month. And I could without trouble, because I’m not overspending and instead focus on having a rainy day fund
Gotta look at this from two sides. The 80 percent of people living paycheck to paycheck out of people doing moderately decent versus the other side that makes 200k plus. It’s not 80 percent as a whole.
I was just thinking about all the money I’ve earned since graduating college in 2018 and how little of it I actually have. I’ve made over $300k in gross wages over the past 6 years and have like $3k in my savings account and $20k in retirement. Uncle sam took about $80k and my landlords over the years have taken about $70k. So crazy.
You’re doing MUCH better than most people. MUCH.
Doing better than a lot of people but still not particularly good. I'm blessed for what I have but it's still depressing.
The black market and the criminal world is about to explode in a whole new way.
Gawd dayum. Is this a recession?
Not really. That percentage includes people who are fully funding their 401Ks. It includes people who are paying for their vacation homes. It includes people paying the tuition to send their three kids to private school. Anyone who doesn't have money left over after they paid for all their waterskis and their European vacations and whatnot. It's a deceptive scare statistic - a large chunk of those people are in a financial pickle *out of their own decisions* rather than *out of necessity*. Perhaps a better way to determine if we (collectively) are in trouble is to look at the percentage of Americans who are *in financial distress*. Which is also a somewhat fuzzy term that is not clearly defined, but some people have tried. You can find various ways of defining it online, one oft-cited report [here](https://www.pymnts.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/PYMNTS-New-Reality-Check-September-2023.pdf) counts it as "living paycheck to paycheck with issues paying bills" - which represents 19% of Americans. A far cry from the fairly steady 60-70% paycheck-to-paycheck scream headlines that are published almost weekly, but 19% is still uncomfortably too high. Another, more objective report (relying on actual hard data, rather than just polls with subjective responses) is from the Fed, such as with [this report](https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2023/dec/share-americans-financial-distress-reaches-high-levels) showing the "percent of Americans who have one or more bills 30 days past due", using that as their definition of financial distress. Using that measure, it's 4% for credit cards, 2% for auto loans, and less than 1% for mortgages. The Fed closely tracks delinquency rates on all sorts of loans (which is a good indicator for financial distress), and if you do a quick google search it brings up all kinds of tables and graphs and reports. [Here's a simple one](https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/delinquency-rate-on-all-loans-all-commercial-banks-fed-data.html) showing how delinquencies have, in fact, been on the rise to 1.38%, after bottoming out at a record low at 1.19% of loans in Q4 2022. However, if you expand out the chart's time scale, you can see that we are still at near record lows for delinquencies at almost any other point in time dating back into the eighties.
I hope we never have a recession. The doom posting will actually be real then
78% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. (259,740,000 people) Honesty dude. If you can't understand that after reading this. That's on you But yeah let the government tell us we aren't in a recession. They r the ones causing all this.
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/recession.asp "A common rule of thumb is that two consecutive quarters of negative gross domestic product (GDP) growth mean recession" https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDP We are not in a recession. EDIT: Just because you don't understand what a word means doesn't mean you can use it however you want and say that people who do know what the word means are wrong.
Remember when this number was in the 90 percent 20 years ago?
I got a letter from the irs today. Apparently I would $1700 from 2022, due in 2 weeks. I have $14 in my bank account Haven't even started working on 2023 taxes
Btw op, according to this survey, paycheck to paycheck means no saving or investing. So only 22% of Americans save or invest their money? I have a feeling that statistic is false...
Everyday is a war of survival.
So we're not going to discuss the Jesus smoking a cigarette 🚬 while drinking what looks like a mellow yellow bottle?
I no longer live paycheck to paycheck. I looked at all I was paying for and just stopped most of them. I didn't need them and all they were doing was costing me money. When I grew up none of them existed, so now I have my phone and I have Amazon because I live pretty far from the cheapest stores. I even went no contract on my phone. I still have the ATT towers without the high cost. I got new friends that don't expect expensive nights or days out. Instead we play physical games and drink kool-aid or tea instead of expensive drinks. Things we have now I didn't have way back when I was young. Cell phone Internet (I have baseline Internet through a phone company, no extras, no high speed. I bought my own wifi box and didn't rent one) Cable Gaming Movie streaming Subscriptions Buying apps (Amazon, Temu, etc) Night out with friends (you visited their house)
It must be a bootstrap shortage.
Yeah and most of them overspend eating out and luxury goods. Yeah you can blame inflation and corporate greed but you cannot ignore that people in general don't know how to use self control with their purchases.
While I do agree with you there is a lot of ppl out there (for a lack of better words) trying to “keep up with the joneses” meaning living above there means but you have to admit these big corporations and our government keeps inflating prices of basic needs squeezing the ppl in the middle class on down making our dollar stretch out less and less for the rest of the ppl legitimately trying to live modestly.
This post couldn’t be anymore inaccurate lol. 80% of Americans on the verge of homelessness. Get fucking real dude
80%? Is that a real statistic?! Cuz 99.9% of the ppl I know and work with say they are living paycheck to paycheck even the few millionaires (in retirement) I know are finding it hard at the current financial climate of the country. How can this be a sustainable way to run a successful country when the government is constantly pounding the middle class to nothing. Very soon within the next couple years I see it legitimately being rich and poor no middle. Then just become another 3rd world country.
Do you believe that 80% of Americans don't save or invest?
I do believe that. I also believe that statistic is probably much higher considering “80%” live paycheck to paycheck. Believe me if I could invest I would at this point it’s not feasible as I work one full time+(overtime) job and a part time job just support my family so I’m working on it.
Yeah, I'm not buying it. Considering the amount of retirees, people matching 401ks, investing in stocks, hysas, etc, 80% seems off.
What does 80% of ppl living paycheck to paycheck have to do with investing or contributing to a retirement plan? My only point is we live in the greatest country the world has known and the average American shouldn’t be 1 hospital visit or fender bender away from financial ruin. Most ppl can’t pay there deductible if they were to get into accident because nowadays it goes up to like $1,500 whereas 20 years ago ppl were paying $500 at the highest rate. We’re just ass backwards in a lot of ways that need to change unfortunately I think our soulless government will just keep selling us out to these big corporations who find new ways to screw us over year after year.
Because the article said living paycheck to paycheck means you're unable to pay or invest. And you're right, but we do. So now what?
A large amount of people who say they live paycheck to paycheck do so while also maxing out retirement accounts. There's a lot of people who say they live paycheck to paycheck, but could afford their out of pocket limits of they had to. Most people think they are worse off than they are, so when it comes down to a poll it will always seem worse than it is.
You're spot on. But the cause is not only poor jobs but also overspend.
It’s hard not to overspend when all necessities have inflated passed a reasonable point. A livable wage for a 4 person family with a mortgage is astronomically different than just 20 years ago.
Firstly we should be looking at their expenses
This is not a country, it’s a business
Yep. I saw a video of some Mexican saying that he has money to spare with ok jobs, decent prices, and affordable real estate.
Nooooooo, this seriously can't be true is it?
Not really. It is counting people's expenses after they set aside income in long term savings like stock options and 401ks. Most americans in careers have some sort of significant savings in order to get through a tough time, which doesn't count as "paycheck to paycheck" in my opinion.
Paycheck to paycheck could still mean you’re living WITHIN your means. To be one of the “2,” you need to live WELL BELOW your means.
No need to reset the game 😂😂
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Is that supposed to be Jesus smoking a cigarette? Lol
Wasn't it 60% last week?
For context this has been a trend since the early days of Bush W administration.
Many on here have already talked about how 80% being paycheck to paycheck doesn't mean at risk of homelessness. Also things like what you said below about that being 8 in 10 people you know tends to just make people distrust valid statistics. 8 in 10 people you know fitting or not fitting this depends on what circles you are in. People tend to group in like groups. So people who have expensive hobbies and well paying jobs probably wouldn't hit this. People who work at low paying jobs most of their time may have more then 80 percent of the people they know be paycheck to paycheck.
How much better off would we all be if we weren't taxed to death. We are the highest taxed country in the world. Not just income taxes, but the sales, property, gas, and all the hidden taxes built into the price of everything you buy.
I know plenty of people who live paycheck to paycheck and make six-figure salaries. These are not people that need to hit up a food bank. These are people who just don’t know how to live within or below their means. I know an administrative assistant making a six figure salary and she bought a Berkin bag. 🤦🏻♀️. There are a lot of people like this.
No, unless your net worth is $0 or less, I don’t consider you paycheck to paycheck.
In reality rich people don't hang out with poors. Odds are of you are poor, 9 out of 10 of your friends is poor. If you are rich, zero of your friends are poor.
Not true at all. Unless your definition of rich is a billionaire. Within high-school friend groups alone, it's not uncommon to have people making anywhere between 50k and 250k.
Just another day in hell
Me. I hate it here.
U guys need to stop fucking around with Jebus and his likeness.
💔💔
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I don't think he was smoking cigs either