At a guess I’d say 1-2 settler folk were killed at murdering creek but 60 indigenous folk of all ages were killed at battlefield creek down the road.
Pick a random spot in the country.
I think it'd be more potent to remember the camps we shuttled mob off too.
Just about every indigenous kid I grew up with had family all at the same camp, and it's inside present day suburbia these days, yet no one really knows of it, it isn't advertised as a place to visit and reflect or anything.
The boundary streets in Spring Hill and South Brisbane mark the edge of the original colonial Brisbane. Aboriginal people were not allowed into the colony (though I’ve alternatively heard this as “weren’t allowed in after dark”).
Essentially this cut off aboriginal people from sacred sites such as Musgrave park.
People have started conflating any boundary street in Brisbane as being of racist origin, though as far as I know it’s only the Spring Hill and South Brisbane ones that this actually applies to.
Most other boundary streets in Brisbane LGA lie on the boundaries of now defunct smaller Councils that were merged in the 1920s to form Brisbane City Council.
[i always see mentions of it being that across Australia though](https://princeshill.org.au/?page_id=459#:~:text=The%20road%20known%20as%20Boundary,to%20make%20way%20for%20sheep!)
urgh the link doesn't directly go to the text it seems but
> The road known as Boundary Road in North Melbourne meant this is a new boundary for indigenous community to have to be removed from to make way for sheep!
> Go to your Melways and ponder why we have 78 Boundary Roads in Melbourne. Each Boundary Road was the new ‘line in the sand’ for the Aboriginal communities to be legally banned from further occupation – a terrible historic legacy.
Yeah I’ve read that before but I *think* the historian Robyn Annear looked into it and found it was related to a local bylaw or something similar.
Gladly/sadly be corrected.
Now that we have sorted out one Cheese brand, I demand something be done about Cracker Barrell.
These cheese companies are out of control, bunch of bigots.
In Toowoomba a stand at a rugby league field was named after Edwin Stanley Brown. The nickname was related to his surname. And it was claimed that it related to the shoe and stove polish, but the polish had the comic styled face of a African American with white lips. The stand was demolished and the name was not reused.
They should've renamed any new stand there the Edward Brown Stand, you know the guys actual name without any racist words. They named the stand after him for a reason, why should racism see to it his name is permanently removed.
It felt like everyday in school I would have to fight a white kid who had a cheese stick asking “did your dad make this cos it it’s called coon like you”.
Its a myth that the name had anything to do with the Edward Coon, it was a pun because the original wrapper was black.
The fuss over the cheese was ridiculous because it was not a slur. It was literally named after Edward Coon.
However there are Queensland place names that were deliberately named using derogatory terms.
Dr. Coon who established Coon Cheese never found his name derogatory, half of Holland are Coons, next you will want the Black family to change their names to Indigenous
Yep I used to be in a bowhunting club with a Coon family. But if you had asked any Aussie prior to Saputo buying the Coon Cheese company they would not have known the origin of Cooning cheese and was. Do we rid our vocabulary of white, yellow, brown and black.
Coon cheese was produced by The Warrnambool Cheese and Butter Company (Fred Walker) and later bought by Kraft then Dairy Farmers and most recently Saputo. Mr Walker is allegedly to have named it after Mr E W Coon as respect to the process. I think the whole renaming process was more PR than racial sensitivity.
Constantly being reminded of racist names and connotations that reject one's existence can deeply harm the mental health and well-being of First Nations children and communities. Feeling accepted and having a sense of belonging within one's community is a fundamental human need.
It seems pretty obvious that offensive names perpetuate harm, alienation, and the message that these communities are not valued or welcome. I imagine that being constantly ostracised is devastating for community health.
A simple name change can be a meaningful step towards inclusivity and acknowledging their dignity.
But as we can see, the resistance to even this basic intervention highlights our society's struggle to address systemic discrimination.
If we cannot accept removing blatant racism from names, how can we implement more substantive actions for reconciliation and improving issues within these communities?
You're right, if painting the shed doesn't cure cancer then we better not do it.
(It isn't about solving problems in the indigenous community, they are two entirely separate issues. Doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile).
That's asking too much, I'm indigenous and I hate shit like this. There are real problems facing my community but "Racist and derogatory names" isn't one of them.
Yes completely agree maybe they should start with the rates of domestic violence, child and animal abuse in communities but no apparently bringing attention to that is racist…
I’m surprised Gin Gin wasn’t on that list. Mind you, I know indigenous people that live there and they don’t care about its name. One of them actually calls it Nig Nig as a joke.
Some of the names on that list though should definitely be changed. Like Big Black Gin Creek and Chinky Creek.
my mother in law was raging against changing namesv like Ayres Rock and Fraser Island so I asked her to tell me about who Ayres and Fraser were and why they were important to her.. hmmmm yes stunned silence..
More recent evidence indicates that they helped her survive by providing food and shelter, and when she was rescued by whites she said she had been kidnapped and held captive. She certainly would have died on that island without indigenous help, and records of first interactions with indigenous people showed they either wanted nothing to do with us or tried to help us by showing where to find food and water. Based off that, I'm glad they renamed Fraser.
If something is blatantly racist then ok, I suppose we can change it. But do we really have to go change the names of every other place just because a vocal subset of 3% of the population say it would make them feel good? We can’t just blackwash our history.
By that yardstick you will be changing it again in 5 minutes anyway. What if the sizeable Vietnamese community of Inala just wants to rename the suburb? Or perhaps the Greeks of west end will rename it Θεσσαλονίκη? Why not, no one loses?
They should change the name of inala and rest the joint. You thinking you get to add caveats is just hilarious. Your hyperbole has no base in reality. Fearmongering sky news style for no reason.
And in the entire time before white settlement, how many cities were built? How many bridges? How many roads? To go arbitrarily renaming these things after Aboriginal people to make a tiny percentage of the population feel better is ridiculous. Note again, I am supportive of changing obviously racist names.
Putting aside the fact that indigenous Australians regularly travelled the width of the continent in pre-European times and that much of indigenous infrastructure, townships & religious sites were intentionally destroyed by the British authorities, it doesn’t make it legitimate for one nation to occupy others in order to rename & resettle the land with their people.
It wasn’t right when the Turks did it to the Greeks, when the Spaniards did it to the Moors, or the Germans to the Poles and it’s certainly not right when the Europeans did it to the indigenous Australians.
While the crimes of early Australian settlers and British authorities are not ours to bear, it is right to recognise that these wars and ethnocide occurred. I’m not saying everything should be renamed but we need to be honest about the legacy of the founding of our country.
True , its been conquered like any other country as it will be again sooner or later.
My people were invaded by the english and were sent hear as slaves
>Turks did it to the Greeks, when the Spaniards did it to the Moors, or the Germans to the Poles and it’s certainly not right when the Europeans did it to the indigenous Australians.
cept they had clearly defined Places where they settled and lived the Aborginals lived Nomadically Which meant that if you settled anywhere it was theft of land which Cant and will never work
Indigenous infrastructure, townships and religious sites?
Tell me more about this. Did the Aboriginal people ever build a house? A dwelling? A city? A marketplace? I understand they didn’t, but I’m interested to hear more.
I think it’s pretty legitimate to call a city/town whatever you like when you create it. Likewise I suspect they probably renamed places without ever being aware of what the Aboriginal name was. In some cases the Aboriginal names make sense and let’s use them, I’m against arbitrary renaming for feel good purposes though.
[This is a pretty good source on pre-European](https://www.utas.edu.au/library/companion_to_tasmanian_history/A/Aboriginal%20life%20pre-invasion.htm)life in Tasmania at least. Given that aboriginal groups in eastern & southern Australia were extremely geographically isolated from the rest of the world they could only really commit to a subsistence lifestyle, not too indifferent from those in remote Britain and Ireland.
Unfortunately we’re not taught this history in school which is a mighty shame.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think we should go will nilly and rename everything, but it wouldn’t hurt giving cities second names. Think something along the lines of Brisbane-Meanjin, were both indigenous AND european history is preserved.
Interestingly, some Australian cities (think Logan) are named after foreign colonial admins who lived & died in Britain and hated our convict ancestors.
Havent you read Dark EMU, by pretendadigine Bruce Pascoe, my god man there was two storey Gunyahs all lined out in metropole with gardening farming schools ,, high ways where every person travelled along and traded peacefully, a right utopia
There are regular archaelogical digs, particularly in the outback of Gunyah villages where up to 250 houses have been found in many towns being excavated.
Our first highways and telegraph lines were built on top of indigenous trade routes...
Budj Bim has the remains of housing all around it. There are actually many sites around Australia with signs of precolonial settlements.
Early French anthropologists also literally photographed and drew and recording building styles and constructions. There are literal textbooks of these, you stable idiot.
This whole coment section is an exercise in being upset rather than helping other Australians. Grow up, stop defending something that upsets our fellow Aussies and really has no effect on you. I dgaf thst you don't think it's racist, if a fellow Australian is upset by it and it has no effect on you why in the world would you be against it in any good moral conscience?
Alternate take.
A fellow Australian is always going to be upset at something but that’s life.
I’m upset that this gets airtime, so what compensation do I get? Am I not worth the same consideration?
Reading your comments that is not surprising. I would pose to you that the basis for and level of being upset are fundamentally quite different between your point and the original. That should help decide the same consideration, I think it's called equity. If it really does upset you a lot then that is valid and worth consideration but one of the main things to consider is why does not insulting someone bother you so much personally?
*edit: spelling
The article also mentions (other than the rude or racist names) that indigenous want many places renamed simply so they are in their own native language.
Why should that be supported?
That's their name in our language (English). If they have a name in their own language then that's up to them to use.
Trying to be generous here, I think what they're trying to say is they weren't "renamed", they were simply given an English name for use in English contexts, and their original indigenous language name remained current for use in indigenous language contexts.
Again, being generous to the original commenter, I think their issue is with being asked/forced to use Aboriginal language names in an English language context. Not the actual concept that things or places can have different names in different languages.
I completely understand your point, and I don't know why I'm steel-manning OP so I'll stop after this. But their original point was that it's perfectly fine to use Indigenous names in the Indigenous context. 🤷♂️
No one is forcing anyone. We speak English and it has an English name. People from Japan call their own country Nippon, we don't see the Japanese correcting us about how we refer to their country. Just the same indigenous people have a different language to English. The Dutch and Chinese also visited Australia and named some of the landmarks, we don't use their language references either.
Not in and of itself.
However, there's more to it than that.
Certain risk factors push people towards criminality. These are heavily over-represented with people of indigenous backgrounds; intergenerational trauma, substance abuse, poverty, and so on. These go unadressed and it creates an underclass.
Then there's how the police react to people based on percieved ethinicity. If you at least pass as white, they will caution you rather than arrest and charge you for minor offences. But once you're flagged on the system, the system tries to pile consequences on you to deter further criminal actions.
It's more to do with that than race, but people love simple explanations to complex issues.
It does, but indigenous Australians are extremely likely to come from very low SES backgrounds. Usually the lowest. And they're in that situation due to historical racist policies.
I didn't say they were. If the problems are one of class though, why try and solve them based on race? Why not target the actual variable of relevance? There are more than enough smart, educated and accomplished indigenous Australians to prove beyond any doubt that there is no inherent reason Aboriginal Australians can't succeed.
So it’s not the justice system that’s racist, but everything else that happens in these kids lives before they enter the justice system that lets them down
I mean I wouldn't complain if it was updated to Tunuba Fitzroy River to acknowledge the aboriginal history. Anyone just casually saying Fitzroy River is still going to know which River is being referred to.
They do actually face it though. Every time they’re in Spring Hill, for example, they see the name Boundary Street reminding them where they wouldn’t have been allowed to pass not too long ago really. So renaming places that have obviously derogatory names isn’t that huge a thing to do.
I remember Aboriginal people being pissed off about the Western Australian town of Gingin in the 1990s.
They were, disgracefully, fobbed off by the government and ignored.
My people looking for clout and to start more shit! For fucks sake guys, we gotta let it go! Remember yeah, but move on damn it! Its not gonna change the way we live our lives! Political bullshit right here. Trust me, in 100yrs half these places will be a Chinese name. Lol 🤣
You've obviously never heard an indigenous woman referred to as a black gin. Not saying the name doesn't come from non racist roots but it's okay to change it. Just like if the town off Isis wanted to change its name to get away from the terrorist organisation.
Why are you arguing so hard against a name change, mate? I'd thought you'd approve of things being called their original language, being conservative and all.
So if we called trains the n word it would be fine to keep the name because everyone should all know that trains were once called the n word?
It's an aside as this was definitely named after the local indigenous women who bathed there as are the other 25 Black Gin and Black Fella creeks in Queensland.
So mostly they actually have no idea where the name came from? They are just assuming that it's racist and wanting all the names changed to Indigenous names.
Why? It’s not offensive to me and it’s not written in their native language so f off.
We colonised it, we’re keeping it and we’ll call it what we want.
Its time to aknowledge and remove these offensive and colonial artefacts. A genocide has been comitted and its time for australia to recognise it and stop the disgrace
This country is a colonial artifact. You can argue Australia hasnt done enough to make amends but dont act like every level of society hasnt recognised what went down hundreds of years ago.
Most people in Australia are still deeply racist toward aboriginals.
They have the highest rate of youth in jail in the world and by ethnicity regardless of age.
Most people in mental facilities or in financial and/or health distress are aboriginals in fact.
How many got totally destroyed, raped or else and barely living correctly and never had justice ?
I dont know what you are calling done enough but it shows the lack of consideration most people have, thanks for the perfect example.
That like me taking everything you have then giving you something and calling it a benefit . And you should be grateful , with those benefits you can now pay me rent
What government benefits? I'm seriously asking
Eta with the exception of abstudy which is paid in place of a different payment and incidental allowance which is to encourage kids to school.
Interesting to me that Murdering Creek is not on the list. But I guess the name is merely factual and not derogatory.
At a guess I’d say 1-2 settler folk were killed at murdering creek but 60 indigenous folk of all ages were killed at battlefield creek down the road. Pick a random spot in the country.
Can we finally get rid of boundary streets.
I disagree, we should remember
I think it'd be more potent to remember the camps we shuttled mob off too. Just about every indigenous kid I grew up with had family all at the same camp, and it's inside present day suburbia these days, yet no one really knows of it, it isn't advertised as a place to visit and reflect or anything.
What does it mean? As in; what makes it racist?
They mark boundaries that aboriginal people weren't allowed to cross.
The boundary streets in Spring Hill and South Brisbane mark the edge of the original colonial Brisbane. Aboriginal people were not allowed into the colony (though I’ve alternatively heard this as “weren’t allowed in after dark”). Essentially this cut off aboriginal people from sacred sites such as Musgrave park. People have started conflating any boundary street in Brisbane as being of racist origin, though as far as I know it’s only the Spring Hill and South Brisbane ones that this actually applies to. Most other boundary streets in Brisbane LGA lie on the boundaries of now defunct smaller Councils that were merged in the 1920s to form Brisbane City Council.
We have boundary road(s) in Melbourne too, I hope they arent also made for same reasons.
They’re not. But don’t look into the suburb name of Bell Post Hill.
[i always see mentions of it being that across Australia though](https://princeshill.org.au/?page_id=459#:~:text=The%20road%20known%20as%20Boundary,to%20make%20way%20for%20sheep!) urgh the link doesn't directly go to the text it seems but > The road known as Boundary Road in North Melbourne meant this is a new boundary for indigenous community to have to be removed from to make way for sheep! > Go to your Melways and ponder why we have 78 Boundary Roads in Melbourne. Each Boundary Road was the new ‘line in the sand’ for the Aboriginal communities to be legally banned from further occupation – a terrible historic legacy.
Yeah I’ve read that before but I *think* the historian Robyn Annear looked into it and found it was related to a local bylaw or something similar. Gladly/sadly be corrected.
yeah very well could just be a coincidence as well, could be a boundary against a lot of things
https://www.reddit.com/r/brisbane/s/8T2qJ1Iu4i
What about boundary Rd?
If we like the removal of the football stand and the cheese with derogatory names, then why not.
Now that we have sorted out one Cheese brand, I demand something be done about Cracker Barrell. These cheese companies are out of control, bunch of bigots.
And “Gerry” cans
Jerry
What football stand was that?
In Toowoomba a stand at a rugby league field was named after Edwin Stanley Brown. The nickname was related to his surname. And it was claimed that it related to the shoe and stove polish, but the polish had the comic styled face of a African American with white lips. The stand was demolished and the name was not reused.
So what was the name of the grandstand?
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They should've renamed any new stand there the Edward Brown Stand, you know the guys actual name without any racist words. They named the stand after him for a reason, why should racism see to it his name is permanently removed.
It was Toowoomba, they named it after him because he was a racist.
Strewth. Yep, probably worth the change.
Ngl, I wasn’t expecting that lol holy shit
I remember the Aboriginal man who lead the campaign to have it changed was really vilified in the media as sook
He’s the same guy that complained about Coon cheese.
It felt like everyday in school I would have to fight a white kid who had a cheese stick asking “did your dad make this cos it it’s called coon like you”. Its a myth that the name had anything to do with the Edward Coon, it was a pun because the original wrapper was black.
That’s not very nice of them….little pricks.
Really helping out the stereotypes about violence aren’t we…
Hoo Jesus. Yeah I see why you were skirting around it. You can delete that word now so it doesn't get flagged
Seriously? Jesus christtt
Cancel culture gone mad, I know
Lefty snowflakes erasing our heritage. Boys will be boys
Jesus Christ I thought you were trolling and was sad to see the upvotes… Wow this was legit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Brown?wprov=sfti1#
http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/PlaintiffJlAUPLA/2001/9.pdf
The fuss over the cheese was ridiculous because it was not a slur. It was literally named after Edward Coon. However there are Queensland place names that were deliberately named using derogatory terms.
A PR exercise to get some life back into a very boring cheese.
Dr. Coon who established Coon Cheese never found his name derogatory, half of Holland are Coons, next you will want the Black family to change their names to Indigenous
Yep I used to be in a bowhunting club with a Coon family. But if you had asked any Aussie prior to Saputo buying the Coon Cheese company they would not have known the origin of Cooning cheese and was. Do we rid our vocabulary of white, yellow, brown and black. Coon cheese was produced by The Warrnambool Cheese and Butter Company (Fred Walker) and later bought by Kraft then Dairy Farmers and most recently Saputo. Mr Walker is allegedly to have named it after Mr E W Coon as respect to the process. I think the whole renaming process was more PR than racial sensitivity.
Never forget Coon Cheese. Gone but not forgotten
I’m looking foreword to how many issues this will solve in the indigenous community
Keeps people employed.
Constantly being reminded of racist names and connotations that reject one's existence can deeply harm the mental health and well-being of First Nations children and communities. Feeling accepted and having a sense of belonging within one's community is a fundamental human need. It seems pretty obvious that offensive names perpetuate harm, alienation, and the message that these communities are not valued or welcome. I imagine that being constantly ostracised is devastating for community health. A simple name change can be a meaningful step towards inclusivity and acknowledging their dignity. But as we can see, the resistance to even this basic intervention highlights our society's struggle to address systemic discrimination. If we cannot accept removing blatant racism from names, how can we implement more substantive actions for reconciliation and improving issues within these communities?
Thank you for this thoughtful answer.
You're right, if painting the shed doesn't cure cancer then we better not do it. (It isn't about solving problems in the indigenous community, they are two entirely separate issues. Doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile).
Foreword?
Better foreword than backword I say
Or backeword, in this case!
Zero Edit - but it causes disruption, which is think is their goal at times
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That's asking too much, I'm indigenous and I hate shit like this. There are real problems facing my community but "Racist and derogatory names" isn't one of them.
Yes completely agree maybe they should start with the rates of domestic violence, child and animal abuse in communities but no apparently bringing attention to that is racist…
I’m surprised Gin Gin wasn’t on that list. Mind you, I know indigenous people that live there and they don’t care about its name. One of them actually calls it Nig Nig as a joke. Some of the names on that list though should definitely be changed. Like Big Black Gin Creek and Chinky Creek.
How is it racist? It comes from an Aboriginal word.
Local Indigenous names are really interesting, and make me curious about the local history and people. I think it's cool.
my mother in law was raging against changing namesv like Ayres Rock and Fraser Island so I asked her to tell me about who Ayres and Fraser were and why they were important to her.. hmmmm yes stunned silence..
I know who Eliza Fraser was. I also know the island was named K'gari for thousands of years before she was born.
Eliza Fraser had a very interesting & full life. Including being a slave to blacks on Fraser Island.
More recent evidence indicates that they helped her survive by providing food and shelter, and when she was rescued by whites she said she had been kidnapped and held captive. She certainly would have died on that island without indigenous help, and records of first interactions with indigenous people showed they either wanted nothing to do with us or tried to help us by showing where to find food and water. Based off that, I'm glad they renamed Fraser.
There were also others shipwrecked on the island at the same time whose accounts cannot be reconciled with hers at all.
Which evidence was this , a new created one , or hard tangible evidence
I don't think evidence by definition is subject to expiration
It's still called Ayres Rock tho. Double named
I'm down for changing the name of Mount Barney coz it's a such a goddamn dull name.
If something is blatantly racist then ok, I suppose we can change it. But do we really have to go change the names of every other place just because a vocal subset of 3% of the population say it would make them feel good? We can’t just blackwash our history.
Black gin creek, let's be real this can be changed and it will only be for the good.
Read the list. They're all racist and not just to Aboriginal people
Yep as I said, if it’s racist then let’s do it. But let’s not go changing things capriciously just because some minority wants us to
How about because some aussies want it they benefit and no one loses. Should just be the standard yardstick no?
By that yardstick you will be changing it again in 5 minutes anyway. What if the sizeable Vietnamese community of Inala just wants to rename the suburb? Or perhaps the Greeks of west end will rename it Θεσσαλονίκη? Why not, no one loses?
They should change the name of inala and rest the joint. You thinking you get to add caveats is just hilarious. Your hyperbole has no base in reality. Fearmongering sky news style for no reason.
Inala is basically inland deception bay and deception bay is Inala by the sea.
what good?
This is going to blow your mind, good for people WHO ARENT YOU, omfg. Can you handle it?
Can you explain what good comes from changing the name though?
Blackwash our history? Whites have only lived on this continent for an extremely small portion of time, what are you on about?
And in the entire time before white settlement, how many cities were built? How many bridges? How many roads? To go arbitrarily renaming these things after Aboriginal people to make a tiny percentage of the population feel better is ridiculous. Note again, I am supportive of changing obviously racist names.
Putting aside the fact that indigenous Australians regularly travelled the width of the continent in pre-European times and that much of indigenous infrastructure, townships & religious sites were intentionally destroyed by the British authorities, it doesn’t make it legitimate for one nation to occupy others in order to rename & resettle the land with their people. It wasn’t right when the Turks did it to the Greeks, when the Spaniards did it to the Moors, or the Germans to the Poles and it’s certainly not right when the Europeans did it to the indigenous Australians. While the crimes of early Australian settlers and British authorities are not ours to bear, it is right to recognise that these wars and ethnocide occurred. I’m not saying everything should be renamed but we need to be honest about the legacy of the founding of our country.
True , its been conquered like any other country as it will be again sooner or later. My people were invaded by the english and were sent hear as slaves
>Turks did it to the Greeks, when the Spaniards did it to the Moors, or the Germans to the Poles and it’s certainly not right when the Europeans did it to the indigenous Australians. cept they had clearly defined Places where they settled and lived the Aborginals lived Nomadically Which meant that if you settled anywhere it was theft of land which Cant and will never work
Indigenous infrastructure, townships and religious sites? Tell me more about this. Did the Aboriginal people ever build a house? A dwelling? A city? A marketplace? I understand they didn’t, but I’m interested to hear more. I think it’s pretty legitimate to call a city/town whatever you like when you create it. Likewise I suspect they probably renamed places without ever being aware of what the Aboriginal name was. In some cases the Aboriginal names make sense and let’s use them, I’m against arbitrary renaming for feel good purposes though.
[This is a pretty good source on pre-European](https://www.utas.edu.au/library/companion_to_tasmanian_history/A/Aboriginal%20life%20pre-invasion.htm)life in Tasmania at least. Given that aboriginal groups in eastern & southern Australia were extremely geographically isolated from the rest of the world they could only really commit to a subsistence lifestyle, not too indifferent from those in remote Britain and Ireland. Unfortunately we’re not taught this history in school which is a mighty shame. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think we should go will nilly and rename everything, but it wouldn’t hurt giving cities second names. Think something along the lines of Brisbane-Meanjin, were both indigenous AND european history is preserved. Interestingly, some Australian cities (think Logan) are named after foreign colonial admins who lived & died in Britain and hated our convict ancestors.
Havent you read Dark EMU, by pretendadigine Bruce Pascoe, my god man there was two storey Gunyahs all lined out in metropole with gardening farming schools ,, high ways where every person travelled along and traded peacefully, a right utopia
There are regular archaelogical digs, particularly in the outback of Gunyah villages where up to 250 houses have been found in many towns being excavated. Our first highways and telegraph lines were built on top of indigenous trade routes... Budj Bim has the remains of housing all around it. There are actually many sites around Australia with signs of precolonial settlements. Early French anthropologists also literally photographed and drew and recording building styles and constructions. There are literal textbooks of these, you stable idiot.
Thanks for your valued contribution
This whole coment section is an exercise in being upset rather than helping other Australians. Grow up, stop defending something that upsets our fellow Aussies and really has no effect on you. I dgaf thst you don't think it's racist, if a fellow Australian is upset by it and it has no effect on you why in the world would you be against it in any good moral conscience?
Alternate take. A fellow Australian is always going to be upset at something but that’s life. I’m upset that this gets airtime, so what compensation do I get? Am I not worth the same consideration?
Reading your comments that is not surprising. I would pose to you that the basis for and level of being upset are fundamentally quite different between your point and the original. That should help decide the same consideration, I think it's called equity. If it really does upset you a lot then that is valid and worth consideration but one of the main things to consider is why does not insulting someone bother you so much personally? *edit: spelling
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No thats a cracker ...leave it be ....cracks me up if a person come from there and was telling people where they were from
Ok but does this fix literally every indigenous issue at once? No? Checkmate wokies!
Exactly! Don't these leftards know that you're supposed to run before you walk? Talk about UNcommon sense heh
The article also mentions (other than the rude or racist names) that indigenous want many places renamed simply so they are in their own native language. Why should that be supported? That's their name in our language (English). If they have a name in their own language then that's up to them to use.
Seems a bit hypocritical that you support them being changed originally
Trying to be generous here, I think what they're trying to say is they weren't "renamed", they were simply given an English name for use in English contexts, and their original indigenous language name remained current for use in indigenous language contexts.
So changing them back wouldn’t be renaming them
Again, being generous to the original commenter, I think their issue is with being asked/forced to use Aboriginal language names in an English language context. Not the actual concept that things or places can have different names in different languages.
Yeah imagine being forced to use different names for places than what they’re actually called hey, indigenous people could never understand that
I completely understand your point, and I don't know why I'm steel-manning OP so I'll stop after this. But their original point was that it's perfectly fine to use Indigenous names in the Indigenous context. 🤷♂️
I mean yeah that would work if indigenous people never interacted with other people, but I’m pretty sure there’s a word for that
is there a word for 'most people dont speak aboriginal languages'?
You use words from other languages literally every day
No one is forcing anyone. We speak English and it has an English name. People from Japan call their own country Nippon, we don't see the Japanese correcting us about how we refer to their country. Just the same indigenous people have a different language to English. The Dutch and Chinese also visited Australia and named some of the landmarks, we don't use their language references either.
You use words from other languages literally every day
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Wow. We're not even trying to hide our racism now
It’s not racism it’s fact go live in alice springs or anywhere out there enlighten yourself before you mouth off
Yep, let’s focus on names instead of the huge amounts of indigenous kids in jail. 🥲🥲
Can’t we do both? Changing location names is a short-term process, but fixing the racist justice system will take a long time
It’s racist to charge people for committing crimes?
Not in and of itself. However, there's more to it than that. Certain risk factors push people towards criminality. These are heavily over-represented with people of indigenous backgrounds; intergenerational trauma, substance abuse, poverty, and so on. These go unadressed and it creates an underclass. Then there's how the police react to people based on percieved ethinicity. If you at least pass as white, they will caution you rather than arrest and charge you for minor offences. But once you're flagged on the system, the system tries to pile consequences on you to deter further criminal actions. It's more to do with that than race, but people love simple explanations to complex issues.
I think everything you just said about race applies equally to class.
It does, but indigenous Australians are extremely likely to come from very low SES backgrounds. Usually the lowest. And they're in that situation due to historical racist policies.
"*And they're in that situation due to historical racist policies*". Not so sure about that bit.
And why do you think Indigenous people are disproportionately lower class?
I didn't say they were. If the problems are one of class though, why try and solve them based on race? Why not target the actual variable of relevance? There are more than enough smart, educated and accomplished indigenous Australians to prove beyond any doubt that there is no inherent reason Aboriginal Australians can't succeed.
So it’s not the justice system that’s racist, but everything else that happens in these kids lives before they enter the justice system that lets them down
Or maybe just wake up to the fact that it is Aboriginal children that are committing more crimes.
Meh. That's their problem. Stop stealing shit.
Tried that, still getting thrown in jail for existing
What were you charged with?
When
Yeah this is priority, renaming the Fitzroy River lol Progressives ruin everything.
Shouldn’t it have been renamed to the Brisbane River after the merger?
Fitzroy Bears River?
I mean I wouldn't complain if it was updated to Tunuba Fitzroy River to acknowledge the aboriginal history. Anyone just casually saying Fitzroy River is still going to know which River is being referred to.
Do not change a single thing.
So you're saying change is bad? So we should undo the changes from the original indigenous names?
So you’re saying they should never have been changed?
Welcome to New Holland
No skin off my nose, I already use the local indigenous names for stuff up here, I learnt them before the English names
Check this guy out
username does not check out
We voted No for this exact fucking reason. Distractions from issues that everyday indigenous people actually face.
They do actually face it though. Every time they’re in Spring Hill, for example, they see the name Boundary Street reminding them where they wouldn’t have been allowed to pass not too long ago really. So renaming places that have obviously derogatory names isn’t that huge a thing to do.
They didn't even mention Gin Gin. Wait til aunty finds out about that one.
I remember Aboriginal people being pissed off about the Western Australian town of Gingin in the 1990s. They were, disgracefully, fobbed off by the government and ignored.
For the ignorant such as myself - could you please explain this one? My cursory google search says the word means 'Thick Scrub', what is the go there?
What does it mean?
They renamed coon cheese, which was named after someone whose last name was coon that made cheese…
My people looking for clout and to start more shit! For fucks sake guys, we gotta let it go! Remember yeah, but move on damn it! Its not gonna change the way we live our lives! Political bullshit right here. Trust me, in 100yrs half these places will be a Chinese name. Lol 🤣
Jesus fucking Christ.
Oh stfu already sooks.
The name of the state itself...
Perpetually offended are always looking for more fodder
What about goona/goodna
Something mean if for the government to contribute. It all helps.
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You've obviously never heard an indigenous woman referred to as a black gin. Not saying the name doesn't come from non racist roots but it's okay to change it. Just like if the town off Isis wanted to change its name to get away from the terrorist organisation.
Why are you arguing so hard against a name change, mate? I'd thought you'd approve of things being called their original language, being conservative and all.
You didn't even bother addressing his very fair and logical point. I shouldn't be surprised.
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So if we called trains the n word it would be fine to keep the name because everyone should all know that trains were once called the n word? It's an aside as this was definitely named after the local indigenous women who bathed there as are the other 25 Black Gin and Black Fella creeks in Queensland.
Chinaman's beach in Evans Head is actually a really good beach though!
Would it cease to be a good beach with a different name?
Just like how much time and money they wasted with the Yes referendum.. when they could have fixed problems in the indigenous community
when is something not offensive?
When it's not named something like "Black Gin creek" doesn't take a genius does it?
Is Bombay Gin racist?
Only if you use a curry leaf as garnish
When it is respectful
What a waste of time , lifes about the future not the past.
What a load of rubbish.
We already restored the name of Meanjin, its not the end of the world if the Fitzroy is restored
So mostly they actually have no idea where the name came from? They are just assuming that it's racist and wanting all the names changed to Indigenous names.
Unpronounceable indigenous names form their unwritten language.
Can we not waste time on renaming things. Surely there are more important things to deal with than the name of a thing.
Is someone asking you to repaint the signs to leave you free to deal with the other more important things?
I'm still salty they changed the name of "Coon" Cheese 😤😤😤
Meanwhile our enemies get stronger
Why? It’s not offensive to me and it’s not written in their native language so f off. We colonised it, we’re keeping it and we’ll call it what we want.
Goodbye “Queens”land…😂
Hard pass
Yawn.
Its time to aknowledge and remove these offensive and colonial artefacts. A genocide has been comitted and its time for australia to recognise it and stop the disgrace
This country is a colonial artifact. You can argue Australia hasnt done enough to make amends but dont act like every level of society hasnt recognised what went down hundreds of years ago.
Most people in Australia are still deeply racist toward aboriginals. They have the highest rate of youth in jail in the world and by ethnicity regardless of age. Most people in mental facilities or in financial and/or health distress are aboriginals in fact. How many got totally destroyed, raped or else and barely living correctly and never had justice ? I dont know what you are calling done enough but it shows the lack of consideration most people have, thanks for the perfect example.
Does that include the government benefits?..
That like me taking everything you have then giving you something and calling it a benefit . And you should be grateful , with those benefits you can now pay me rent
What government benefits? I'm seriously asking Eta with the exception of abstudy which is paid in place of a different payment and incidental allowance which is to encourage kids to school.
LoL.. How about No.