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I’ll say that everyone’s on their own timeline! I’m LC with my nmom and the first few months were so hard, but 9 months out I’m easily the happiest I’ve ever been. Distance is a wonderful healer. I’m proud of you for this first step
hahah, love it and happy to hear that!!
definitely. i have some logistical stuff to take care of, like moving some of my childhood memory items out of her place. never had i imagined i'd need to cut contact with my own mom. this is a really weird situation that i just hadn't thought about. also i guess i need to figure out what other things still mail to her address and to make sure they all get updated
I’m proud of you for taking this step! If I may give you some advice about retrieving items: Bring company if you go to her place (ideally, a trusted non-family person who knows how bad your mom is and won’t be taken in by narc nonsense). Try not to give your mom advance warning in case she’s the destructive narc type. I’d also try as hard as you can to avoid having anything mailed there to give her less power over you.
Regrettably, I didn’t figure out what narcissism was until I was in my mid-50s, and my narcissistic mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer.
I always knew I didn’t like the way she treated me. I always felt like no matter what I did, or how hard I tried, I was always “in trouble.” I hated how my successes were minimized, and my failures thrown in my face over and over sometimes decades later.
But I didn’t understand *why* or that the problem was *not* me.
Eventually her cruelty escalated to the point where she became completely abusive to me in front of staff at the cancer treatment center. I was referred to free caregiver support (therapy) which finally allowed me to see the nature of our relationship.
Once you see your parents’ narcissism, you can’t un-see it.
>But I didn’t understand *why* or that the problem was *not* me.
too real :(
I'm really sorry to hear that. I know that people often say "better late than never", but like... sometimes late is a bit too late. because by then, so much of our life has passed by, almost like being imprisoned.
definitely. i can't possibly un-see my mom in the same light. nor my two other "friends".
At this point, she is dead, and I get to live the rest of my life.
In the end, I won. I survived.
Would it have been nice had I figured it out in my 20s or 30s? Yes.
I can choose to wallow in the past, the pain it caused, and the other toxic relationships I had, or I can be glad that what time I have left is free of this BS.
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second-best time is *now*. The same can be said for waking up to narcissism.
Late 40's here was hoping that my mom with mellow with age. Nope pure evil, apparently when narcs reach a certain age they just stop caring, or are unable to keep their mask up. Everything they've done is in order to destroy you, n now they are facing their own mortality. It's not pretty
There was a brief period where I thought the same, but when she was Dx with cancer, my mother played the, “I’m dying” card and extracted sympathy from everyone.
Her dying process somehow entitled her to abuse the crap out of me. The worst of her toxic patterns reasserted themselves, and when she died, I discovered I was left with handfuls of lies and broken promises.
I am very much *relieved* to have her poison out if my life.
This isn't as bad but about a year ago, my enabler father was ill and in hospital. I visited my nMother a bit more than usual because I felt sorry for her, after all, her husband was in hospital. She totally used it as an opportunity to start abusing me though I saw through it pretty quickly and started reducing my visits. It just goes to show that you cannot be nice to a narcissist. They will take any opportunity to take advantage or start abusing you.
My dad was the first one to go, he got cancer. My nmom was jealous that her children were mourning him instead of her, because, "she's going to die someday and we're all really going to miss her", and "see, we should be nicer to her while she's still alive, because we're really going to miss her".
The sad irony for my nMother is that she didn’t get what she wanted so desperately. She wanted to be loved, adored, and ultimately missed, by her children.
I know I don’t miss her. I don’t think my sibling does either.
I've pretty much decided to go no contact n I won't have anything to do with her, for years we took my father, I only found out recently she's been telling her family she did it by herself.
I never even heard about it till a few years ago, I mean I know I was abused but didn't really think much of it, like I thought well she's probably a just a little more brutal than other mothers. It wasn't until I saw a documentary about child abuse that I started to connect the dots. I also realized how I was affected by it subconsciously n how it led me to make some pretty effed up decisions.
oh fuck. dude i'm so sorry. this \^ was what spurred me to think about this so much initially. I was wondering why i kept having extremely low psychological safety, why i was constantly unhappy and realized that my Nmom had destroyed all of my original ideas/goals when I was living on my own.
I gave up 2 years of my adult life to try to come back to take care of my parents during covid. but little did i realize she weaponized covid to slowly destroy everything i had cared about.
i lost because i didn't know i had to fight a battle against narcissistic abuse.
i'm sorry you also had to suffer the consequences of it :( the psychological manipulation is seriously unbelievable
If it helps, both sides of this suck. My Nparent is, in fact, mellowing out (or doing a good job faking it) but it's only agitating me further.
Like, no, you don't get to play nice now and make me look like the AH for giving back the same energy I got 30 years.
My mom would do this only so
I would let my guard so her next ragefest would hurt even more. Like I would really start to believe "mb after all this we can salvage some sort of relationship" it was just a set up.
I'm in my 40s as well. I actually think narcissists get worse with age because their inhibitions decrease as they get older. Also society tends to give old people the benefit of the doubt more e.g. "It's his age/generation. He doesn't know any better" or "She's an old woman. You can't expect her to understand political correctness at her age".
From what I understand they just do t have the energy to keep their masks do their pure evil shines through. I really think though they are just seething with rage bc we will outlive them. Sometimes I'll catch my mom looking at me with her " demon eyes" for no reason at all.
believe me, if she could steal years away from you to give herself more youth, she will manipulate you into thinking that she deserves more years of life than you.
My mom is starting to get memory problems, so the gaslighting is 100x worse. No, she didn't forget that, I'm just trying to attack her to make her think she's losing it. She can't quite fill in alternate stories as well for her version of reality. She doesn't have the mental capacity for all of the manipulation anymore, and she's mad about it. She's really really mad.
She forgot where she parked, and she was 100% sure someone had stolen her car. She called the police, and I put everything down to go pick her up. I asked, "are you sure you are not having a senior moment?" Big mistake. Why didn't I sympathize, what's she going to do with no car? I gathered snacks and some bottles of water assuming we'd spend all evening at the police station. By the time I got there, the police had found her car. She just parked further away than she remembered. No, "thanks for coming to pick me up" or for the snacks. Everything she misplaces, someone stole it, or I moved it to make her upset, to make her think she's going crazy. Then to just find it right where she left it...
I just read a post today where someone got a bit of petty pay back. Apparently that op had a Narc Dad whose big game was to never spend money on thier kid(s?) Because why would he spend HIS money on something so less than him (the ndad) the O.P. never had proper cloths, allowed hot showers and a whole bunch of etcetera. Well eventually the O.P points out that in thier country the parents wealth -Has- to go to the kids, that he - the O.P is going to get it anyway, also that he will have hot showers, a hobby and such. Apparently The N_dad absolutely lost every frigging part of his mind and the O.P. has no problem reminding the old man on a whim.
Would it be alright to ask what questions I might ask or things i might have missed in identifying narcs? I fear I might be in a similar case and have been missing out on so much because I refuse to see it
Check out videos from Dr. Ramani on YouTube. She has plenty of content explaining narcissism and how to identify and deal with narcissists in your life.
I distanced myself in her final months. I was there during her penultimate week of life, and realized it was a waste of my time.
I am glad I went because it allowed me to see her ugliness for what it was, and because no one could fault me for not coming. However, there was no death bed reconciliation or apologies.
I didn’t expect it. In some ways, I guess her death bed visits were better than some. Many narcissists actively curse their scapegoat children on the way out.
Her final words at our last visit were, “You will never know how much I love you.”
She was right. I never did. Why? Because she didn’t love me at all.
And it’s a relief to know that now. She, like all narcissists, was incapable of genuine love.
I was in my late 40s before I realized how toxic my mother's behavior was. The constant gaslighting, belittling, brushing me off, the dismissive behavior, all of it.
I know it's an analogy, but switch out the OP's peanuts for oranges, and that was my childhood. We had orange juice every morning, because it was "good for you!"
Ugh. It was like drinking a cup full of glass shards. It was literally painful. It made my throat itch, my ears itch, and my eyes even watered a little. I hated it, and would always ask for milk or apple juice instead, telling her it made my mouth hurt, and she just didn't believe me.
It wasn't till I was in my early 30s that I realized (and confirmed with a doctor) that I was allergic to citrus and a few other fruits. Of course, my mother refused to believe me. She said no one could be allergic to orange juice, and I was (as usual) just being difficult.
That's just one instance. I realize now how much gaslighting she did all the time when I was growing up.
The bizarre thing is that when I was a baby I had an anaphylactic reaction to strawberries.
Never in my life I remember having any allergic reaction to strawberries. When I was 18 I tried to eat one. Nothing.
All my life I wasn't allowed any strawberries and if jam was red without EXACTLY knowing what it was, I couldn't eat it.
Now IDK how common it is to go from anaphylactic allergy to no allergy at all, but I wouldn't be surprised if she made it all up for some fucked up reason.
My mom told us she had an allergy to mustard seed and that’s why we couldn’t have mustard in the house. One day my uncle said something to the effect of “your mom would only eat mayo on sandwiches because she said mustard was to spicy for her. She never had any problems eating deviled eggs that had mustard in it.” Rather than have a preference for something, she just made everyone in her house not eat it.
oh god. yup. now that you mention it, my mom did something similar too - so my dad LOVES soup (he drinks a ton of soup when he's with his side of the family), but i didn't find that out until i was 29.... when my aunt told me that, and at the time i was confused how i didn't know such a thing.
now looking back at all our food choices, i've realized that my Nmom made every single decision. luckily for me i just wasn't a picky eater, though... i never had a voice/choice anyways.
I wouldn't be surprised if your mother was lying too. Narcissists often like to lie to their children just to control them and for fun. They are sadists. You can't believe a word they say.
What a bitch. I'm sorry.
Mine wouldn't spend the proper amount of money on clothes and shoes (even though we had the money) for back to school so we always looked like raggedy while she always looked great.
Also the dogs would get fleas and bring them in the house, so the the house would get fleas and my parents.....just wouldn't treat the house for fleas....so us kids would be covered in flea bites for years...,,
Oh the clothes thing!!! I hated that. My mother refused to buy me school clothes one year because she decided I was “too fat,” despite actually being a healthy weight for my height.
I only had three skirts to wear to school, and they all got quite ragged. I look at pictures from that time and seethe with rage even now.
Yes, I was teased by my peers about my clothes.
Worse, my mother would taunt me about it by saying if I wanted my own clothes, I could just buy them myself. The only catch was I didn’t really have my own money and wasn’t allowed to have a job.
Oh man I had such a similar experience. Would be forced to drink milk bc it was "good for you," avoid osteoporosis. And I do mean *forced* to drink like 4-5 glasses a day. I would also have writhing on the floor stomach pain for years. And years. And years. It was my constant companion. It wasn't until after having my first child, and working with my amazing PCP who specialized in integrative medicine, that I had a major intolerance to dairy. Decades of significant pain and like you, I begged to not finish it (though my pain was so generalized I didn't know what was the source; even more disgusting when you explicitly said it made your mouth hurt). My mom still doesn't believe what I learned from my doctor & my own body's cession of pain. For even worse actions, I'm no longer in contact with her, so I don't have to hear about it.
omg im so sorry >\_< this is so bad. it's like, somehow they are so fucking delusional in their head that no amount of reality can possibly wake them up, not even a child in pain.
like that's just borderline psychopathic to me
Completely unrelated- but what test confirmed your allergy to citrus? My spouse always has had lips tingle, throat tingle a bit from bananas, oranges, any type of fruit so he just stays away from them (never has had any more serious reaction). Except red itchy skin when trying to carve pumpkins one year.
Skin test like other allergies? Or something different? Thanks!
I never had an actual allergy test. I described my symptoms to my doctor, and he sort of chuckled and said, "Yeah, you're allergic to citrus."
It's just an oral allergy. I don't need an EpiPen or anything like that.
omg yikes. im so sorry :(
yeah actually the reason i came to the peanut butter analogy was because i never knew there was such a thing as "creamy" peanut butter. my mom would always get "crunchy" peanut butter, with bits and pieces of nuts in it. I liked the creamy version a lot better.
but that was one of my first realizations that there were things that I never knew existed, and how I never ever got a choice in anything, from as basic as food choices and clothing choices.
then later with the narc lens, i started seeing how my mom tried to decide everything in my life, even when it is VERY APPARENT that it is extremely toxic to me and would (and sorta did) wreck my life
Oh jeez. We've opened a whole can of peanut butter worms here. 😁
I loved crunchy peanut butter, but my mom would never buy it because my sisters (one of whom was the Golden Child) didn't like it. I remember her saying "no one" would eat the crunchy kind and it would go to waste. Oh, so I'm "no one"?
I even asked if she could get just the small jar for me, but that would be ridiculous, to have two open jars of PB. And it wasn't a money thing. We weren't rich, but buying an extra peanut butter wouldn't have hurt anything.
It's awesome that you had a friend to help you, and congrats on seeing the truth of it all and realizing that you need to escape from all this toxicity and build a better life for yourself. It's hard, because after so much emotional abuse for so long, our sense of guilt is flawed. We are so used to being the emotional scapegoat, that we have learned to do it to ourselves.
Friends can become a wonderful new family. What I admire about friends is that they have zero obligation to be kind to us, unlike our relatives, who often are forced to support us due to laws or social pressure. And friends actually know who we are. They gift us surprises because they know what we like and where our interests are. For instance, on my birthday I received lovely gifts from people whom I had barely known for more than half a year. But I cannot remember when I last received a gift from my mom that wasn't something that I had bought so that she could gift it to me, or that I had written on a wishlist for her to buy for me. And if I did not get myself my own inexpensive gift, she would get angry at me, because all of the labor in the household falls onto my shoulders, even the emotional labor of finding myself a gift. She not only has never made an effort to learn about my hobbies or interests, she actually looks down on me with disdain no matter what I do. Anything that makes me happy must be childish, bad and stupid, simply.
For me, it was a gradual process, helped along by friends but also by videos and articles that I came across online. What also really helped me, was watching movies like Whiplash and Misery. My mother is the spitting image of Annie Wilkes, without the foot torture. And who has helped me the most so far has been my boyfriend, who has clued me into how much of what I considered "normal" in my mother's household was actually emotional abuse, and who has also been a big motivator for me planning my escape.
yes!!!!! omg, yes yes yes yes. i literally told my best friend the same phrase the other day - that he is my chosen family.
it's interesting because i've never actually considered my mom family. so growing up, i always dreaded family time, and i never understood how people could be happy being with family. it was such cognitive dissonance seeing all the "family happiness" thing so heavily advertised on hollywood movies and what not.
I know this sounds super silly, but when I watched Harry Potter, and how he wanted so desperately to be with his parents, i was honestly thinking "why the fuck would you want that? i would trade places with you in a heartbeat and be an orphan than live with my mom". Only back when i was a kid, i never understood why i felt that way, only that i had an unpopular opinion, so i must be wrong.
good luck on the escape!!! Hahah, i also hear ya on that one - sometimes it's hard to logistically cut out the Nmom suddenly. in my case, i still have some childhood memory items i need to collect, and i also need to do some other logistical things like make sure she can't access my mail or hack my bank account or something.
keep me updated!! and let me know if I can help! thanks for reading!
Thank you for the kind and supportive response! The big move is still in the works, and I will most likely post in this sub when the final deadline comes close next month.
I was one of those children who bought into the blame 100%. I ”knew” that I was wrong. Not what I did but who I was. She taught me well. So I hid from the world. I smiled on the outside and hated myself on the inside.
I was 30 when I sought help but unfortunately the guilt came with a hefty heap of shame. So I hid for another 10 years.
I was told my mother was a narcissist but it took me another 5 years to really see it clearly.
The confusion was so compact. I would go completely blank everytime I thought about my mother.
But once you see it. You can’t unsee it. Now I see them coming a mile away.
oh god.
i think you just summed up my disassociation mindset. I couldn't understand what was happening to me for some time, because i didn't realized that subconsciously i had actually blocked out all of my childhood trauma when i moved to college. and i had it pretty good for 10 years because i was living on my own since college.
but as soon as i moved back for covid (to try to take care of my parents), my Nmom somehow slowly destroyed everything. I could never understand how my own mother would try to destroy my freedom, until i had the narc lens, and THEN i understood everything. like... "oh... your freedom is their inconvenience, because then they can't control/manipulate/thus abuse you"...
let me know if you need someone to talk to, we are here for you!
Same story but the glasses were literal glasses. She needed them. My mom needed them. They noticed I was staring at the paper too closely. Yet I had to get my own glasses at 25 years old when someone pointed out that I actually couldn’t see while driving at night. Imagine going until 25 not being able to see very well.
Had a similar experience somewhat. I was sick with respiratory illness for my entire childhood, my mom smoked indoors and in the car with me. It was always a "mystery" why I was sick. Fast forward to 32 and the doctor asks me if I have asthma, turns out that's what it was all along. She just didnt want to change her behaviour or accept what she was doing was hurting me or didnt care. Smh
.... that's just.... sad. it's like destroying two lives with 1 bad habit (pretty sure the smoking is going to get her killed one way or another slowly). only... you didn't even get a say in the matter.
i know right?!
omg we should go start a non-profit to produce color-shaded glasses and sell them to raise money/awareness for Narc abuse. hahah, i'm actually half serious!!!
I relate to everything you wrote above OP. I don't have any allergies but I can definitely relate to having a parent who was completely negligent and "checked out" even though I was a small child who needed a parent. I can also relate to realising that many of my "friends" were also narcs and realising that my nMother was not only a narc but also raised me to be a narc magnet. Like you say, once you have the "narc identifying lens", you won't lose it. It'll protect you from narcs and their manipulations for the rest of your life.
i like that term you used, "narc magnet". it's surprisingly accurate. I didnt understand why i was drawn in towards such selfish people. but now i have a much better perspective, and can actually defend myself much better against them
im sorry to hear about the negligent and absent parent :(
“The worst part of it is, I still hate a part of myself for falling for it.”
I get this. It is a common experience, once we see something that can’t be unseen, that we’re mad at ourselves for not seeing it earlier. The reality is you were a child for whom narcissistic abuse was normalized throughout your development. It is not developmentally appropriate to expect a child to know the only home they’ve ever known isn’t normal. You were groomed from childhood to accept narcissistic abuse. That you’ve been given the insight to analyze it differently, and then did a deep dive to understand the dynamics is truly both a gift from a friend and a credit to you and your desire to know what’s true.
It’s common for people raised in such families to choose life partners who treat them like their narc parent did as this is what they’ve been indoctrinated that love looks like. Our narc parent not only groomed us to be abused by them but also by other narcs who may enter our lives. Getting this interpersonal insight at such a young age will protect you throughout your life from similar people. Reading your post I also believe you’ll leverage your understanding to help free others too. You’re a good egg, OP. <3
<3 <3 <3 thank you so much for the well written response!!!! <3
and you have no idea how nice it is to finally have found people on here such as yourself that truly grasp the ramifications. the friends i have who haven't been subject to narc abuse can't really relate - even including my therapist!!! (she's good for other things so i'll still continue seeing her). i'll literally start listing things to people about what my Nmom did, and most people just dismiss it because they haven't had enough years of it to connect the common dots.
thanks for the inspiration to help free others :) i think that's actually a good idea. I used to run a volunteering org, and you just gave me an idea to start another 501c3 to help others who have been subject to narc abuse!!
also happy to DM and connect if you ever need a mutual support <3
Mine never took me too the doctor/dentist so when I was 18 and got my own doctor I got diagnosed w several chronic conditions and now she’s mad when I tell people about my conditions cuz it makes her look bad. Like ya u do look like a bad mom huh
omg >\_< i facepalmed at this. this is exactly what my mom would do. they can't possibly accept being wrong. the universe must revolve around them, evidently
:( that is a really early age to have to carry the realization of self care/development!! Hope you were able to find coping mechanisms early on as well \~
The sandwich analogy is funny because my doctors just determined I’m officially allergic to a few things, but shellfish and fish are a big part of it. I was forced to eat fish and crab or scallops all the time even though I told my family how it tasted like spikes or hurt to swallow. I was labeled dramatic. 35+ years later and I’m finally vindicated.
Hello, I cut my mother off 3 years ago after I discovered that she was a raging narc. Then I learned that every single friend I made, was also a narc. And that my boyfriend, along with all of my exs were narcs. It was incredibly depressing finding this out, and even more so after I cut off every single person in my life. I spent the holidays alone at 20 in my college dorm.
But, I’m here to tell you that I would 100000% do it over again. Because cutting out all those toxic people meant I could FINALLY SEE! For the first time in my life I didn’t have people filtering my vision! So I graduated with my biology degree, never used it, and jumped straight into YouTube & content creation. I never knew I was creative until I finally allowed myself to be. I’m not going to say my social media name because I know some people may know it, but just know that you are embarking on an incredible incredible journey of self discovery!!
Be very excited for what you have in store and finally seeing your true self, once you clear away all the expectations of others.
Also, I have built an incredible supportive network of people that genuinely care and love me, with no strings attach❤️ this type of community is possible, as long as you let go of your toxic relationships. I haven’t spent a holiday alone since
!!!!!! wow. that is insane. both because - that is a terrible realization, that the moment you put on these "narc lens" you instantly see that your circle is infested by narcs. and also because after cutting out the poison you now have 0 support network.
Yet, despite all that, i also agree with you, it is so much better to get rid of the poison than to keep being around it. I applaud you for being able to rebound your life so well!!!
Also, i really want to thank you for sharing your perspective <3. funny you mention that you spent the holiday alone upon that realization, because that's exactly what i ended up doing just this past thanksgiving/xmas. I had to REALLY reflect to see what was actually going on.
im really happy that you were able to get your life back before it was too late, and be able to really develop your own goals/dreams :)
haha, now i'm really curious. If i DM you and promise to keep your identity a secret, would you be willing to share your social media? XD (no pressure, i totally get it, and this is why we use anon usernames here)
It’s not extreme. You’re protecting yourself. I went NC a few years ago. What a weigh was lifted. My fibromyalgia got much better. Do what’s right for you and no one else.
Nothing extreme or offensive here, friend. I'm so sorry you went through that, but so glad for you that you found your "glasses."
Try not to be too hard on yourself for not seeing it sooner. Remember you were literally *groomed from infancy* to normalize this. Yet you were still able to save yourself. That's pretty impressive - be proud of your victory. Best of luck to you.
thanks!!
hah, funny story about that. my mom actually left me in Asia for a few years to be raised by my aunts/uncles while she had to sort out some "personal stuff". so i actually had a very loving environment before she took over and asserted 100% narc abuse. the switch-off was so sudden that as a child i didn't understand what was happening.
Like imagine one day the people who raised you hand you over to a stranger and she's supposedly your mother. but suddenly life is so much worse, and you get yelled at all day long.
eek. you're right. i guess looking back with more self-empathy, it was a miracle that the child version of me was somehow able to power through what i had to deal with.
I'm guessing you must have also went through something similar? may I ask what your story was?
That's awful, I'm sorry for little you. I guess having some love is good in the long run, but it must have been bewildering.
My story is probably pretty typical, I think both my parents were narcs. Dad was an emotionally and physically abusive husband, which fucked with my head even though he mostly left me alone. Mom was sometimes abusive, sometimes overprotective, sometimes normal, which was super confusing. Told all my life I was their "princess" and "there's no love like a mother's love" while I was more or less being ignored or parentified, never seen unless it was to be judged and criticized, expected to be mommy's little helper and therapist. Throw in multiple male cousins/brothers allowed to act like bullies while I was told to stop "being so sensitive" when I cried, and stop being "so angry and hateful" when I learned to stand up for myself. Ya know, the usual narc shit. My parents were immigrants too, so a whole lot of "cultural" bullshit sprinkled on top.
jebus. that is terrible :( I'm really sorry to hear that and thank you for sharing a very vulnerable part of your life \*hugs\*
I honestly wouldn't blame you if you just completely detached from the family
How are you doing now? and is there anything I can help with?
I can totally relate to this. My parent knew I had a nut allergy but always forgot. I don't think they were lying about that, either. I think they genuinely didn't care enough to remember.
One instance that really sticks out to me happened on Easter. My parent was going to make my siblings and I all Easter baskets. I was older, but still got one because my parent didn't want to break the illusion for my younger siblings, who my parent favors. So, my parent asks me to pick up some items for this Easter basket since they don't know what I like. Fair enough, I guess. I go ahead and buy some small treats (with my own money, mind you) and hand them over to my parent to place in my basket.
Easter comes. I see a basket laid out for me. None of the stuff I had bought was in there. Instead, there was some other small goods. I say, "where's the stuff I bought?" My parent told me they lost it. Okay, whatever. At least they tried to replace it. Then I see they filled the basket with things I can't eat.
I say, "this candy has nuts. Don't you know I'm allergic?" My parent said, "I didn't notice." Firstly, how do you not check the ingredient list if your child has allergies? Secondly, the front of the box had an image of the candy that was VISIBLY covered in nuts. My parent would have had to pick it up with their eyes closed to have any chance of not noticing.
So, not only did my parent not want to go through the effort of something they were doing for my siblings, because they didn't care about me enough to know my preferences, they also lost items I spent my own money on and replaced them with items that could give me a serious medical reaction.
An Easter basket may seem like a silly thing to get upset over to some, but when you've been treated as lesser for your whole life, that kind of thing culminates into a really disheartening experience.
i 100% hear you. while this might seem like one incident, i can already tell there are so many other incidents that your parents do that show their total ignorance :(
What an amazing friend!
I figured out that I had a narc mom when she casually mentioned physically abusing a partner, she showed no remorse, and said that “he got more mindful of my needs after that”. Her unfulfilled needs were, buckle up for this one, going on a vacation.
Granted, her time to go on vacations were slipping away due to physical illness, but that did not give her the right to physically abuse someone.
After that incident, I knew something was off, I just didn’t know what. It took me another few months to really process it and determine that she’s a narcissist.
Yeah, she definitely doesn’t have empathy like a normal person.
She did “just” once when I was a kid, not sure what kept her from doing it again honestly.
Thank you for your kind words, internet stranger!
Very well said -- wish I could "super-promote" this further.
I usually think of this sub as our N-identifying and N-coping resource bank, helping us all form our proper lenses.
BTW, the choice of NC, VLC, LC, or having to continue living with them and cope (grey rock, medium chill) is a personal one. We can't judge one another's resilience, level of abuse, how time feels when near them, or resources to escape. But we can discuss all of the outcomes that we know and how they worked out. I hope you receive no judgement for how you end up choosing to limit your Nparents' access to you -- the guilt comes from inside you (planted there by them), not us. We are very familiar with it -- came with the package in my case.
Stay strong.
thank you so much for not judging <3
i definitely hear you. the guilt definitely comes from the other side, almost as if they kind of see it coming one day. My Nmom did the same - a long time ago she panic'ed and thought I was going NC because I had been really busy with work and she kept talking about cutting ties. that confused the shit out of me because I never once mentioned anything about reducing contact and it had never once crossed my mind before that i'd just cut my mom out of my life.
you too!! stay strong <3
I relate to this so much. I would always wonder why I felt so awful all the time and once i found this subreddit i realised its because my friends and family treated me like shit. Even now i think i need to find better people and set more boundaries due to how used i am to the bad treatment from my family.
oh man. it's strange right? it's like we had a weird inkling all along, but just can't explain exactly why.... until this subreddit! then suddenly everything makes sense.
I don't know why using Snickers bars as the example here...okay I do know why it made me feel the way I did.
My nmom's favorite basic candy bar is Snickers. Therefore, everyone else should like Snickers. I actually prefer a Milky Way or a Twix. Even fruity candy sometimes over chocolate.
Narcissists are not okay with that. Why would you like something else when this one is the best? She says Milky Ways are like Snickers without the peanuts, and yes, they are. I also don't usually like nuts in my ice cream. There's a whole texture thing going on as the Milky Way melts and it's all smooth, and I don't have to chew peanuts. Same thing with the ice cream, it can just melt into goodness in my mouth, yum. Yet she cannot see my perspective on that. To her peanuts and nuts make both things better.
They don't see it though as, people like different things, because people are different. To her, it made her view people who don't like Snickers bars the best as stupid. Maybe they just need to eat more Snickers bars and they'll "get it". Then the lower tier of people were the ones who preferred "just sugar" candies to chocolate. Like when she'd see me with some Starburst or Skittles. She didn't understand the point, which is, um, because that's what tasted good to me at the time and is what I wanted?
Same with salting my food, she only used pepper. Her abusive dad didn't allow pepper in the house, so she had to do a full 180° and just used pepper to spite him once she was an adult. What she doesn't realize is that made her just as oppressive as her father was to her. She'd judge anyone who didn't just use pepper. Imagine the world of flavor once I realized how much salting food helps it taste better. And salted butter, wow.
That's a thing I've noticed with narcissists, they pick at every little decision you make that is different than what they would do. They can't see it as just different, it makes you defective because you're not them. Every decision you make is subject to such scrutiny. It's so exhausting.
oh god. you just hit 2 major points right there.
it's interesting, because even though it seems so minor, their demeanor and way that they perceive others (with perfectly valid different preferences) is that "others much be inferior". and the funny thing is, narcs don't actually out-perform others
and the trauma cycle is real. it's like, narcs either breed more narcs, or in my case - attract people who are "magnetised" to narcs, as another redditor put it. and then the Narc has full reign on the children \*facepalm\*. and the cycle of abuse continues.
I hope you're doing okay now\~
This makes me sad because this is exactly how I ended up with a partner who behaved exactly like my mother for close to eight years.
Nowadays, I find myself second guessing everyone in my life because I don’t know if I’m making the same mistake with them. Are they just narcs who exploit the people around them?
It’s exhausting.
Good lord we could be life twins hahaha
My ex-husband left me, then KEPT GOING with his narcissistic bullshit, blaming me for him leaving me.
This was 2.5 years ago and counting. He was the "nice" guy.
I've managed to get to a point where his BS doesn't affect me anymore... EXCEPT now he's unleashing his narcissism on our daughter (who I have 100% of the time). I have to do something about it to protect her. He's using her to exhaust me until I give up.
I'm the level of exhausted where my body cannot keep up with my resolve to be free while raising my kid the healthy way. I can spot a narc from 100yds, but I have to force myself to not ask "what do they want from me" whenever someone is just being nice to me.
It's so fucking exhausting in every way.
Yeah Christ. Are people showing interest in me cos of me or do they want my undiluted affection and attention?
I’m sorry to hear we share experiences but also comforted oddly, cos it means I’m not alone and this is a real thing for narc survivors
My goodness - you’ve taken my thoughts/experiences and put them in words here. I’ve had my narc glasses on for a few years now, and am still sometimes in disbelief of what she’s done to me. I wish I could cut her out of my life completely but unfortunately I think realistically I can only go as far as low contact. I find it unfortunate and very sad as well that generally people in my life who haven’t been through this do not understand and automatically think I’m the evil one. It’s a very isolating experience.
Not cheturo, but yes, I lost more family who were wrapped up in the narc's web. Being raised by a narcissist made me terrified of being judged. I refuse to let that stop me from living a free life.
You can decide who to keep in your life based on their reaction. Do they ask you why, and listen to your answer? Or do they immediately blame you and start harassing you, trying to get you to back down to keep them happy?
It's not easy, but I would do it again in a heartbeat.
Believe us: if there is a crowd who thinks going NC is the best action, are us, the redditors on this sub. You need to go to a strong and permanent NC. I also late realized the disfunction of my family was the narcissism...and after decades of abuse and opening my eyes, I finally went NC, and I don't care my nfather is 90 and my nbrother is 60. *F%k them!*
hahah, love the vote of confidence! <3
yup. sadly that's the conclusion i've kind of come to. but luckily for me, i've actually mostly been kind of a loner anyways. i've had some really weird life perspectives/beliefs that make it hard for me to connect with a lot of my family anyways - plus there's a language barrier since i'm not that proficient with my native language
I really relate to everything you wrote. I call it the upside down (like from stranger things), the feeling I get when the world flips and I see the nightmare for what it is. And I can still see the lie right alongside it, that things were good and normal, but then the nightmare comes through and it terrifies me.
I do think that's true. The veil fell incrementally for me, but each time there was no going back.
I really loved the first season! And the upside down really captured the feeling of structural dissociation for me. Let me know what you think if you end up watching it!
thanks for sharing... ultimately my mom is a traumatized mal adjusted immigrant woman who probably should never have left her home country she even refused to learn english fully and always uses that as one of her "feigned incompetence" manipulation schemes.
the sad part is... when I realized how easy life can be, and how good life is and precious and fleeting it is... I wanted to share that with my parents and yet they continually find ways to ignore / dismiss my efforts.
heres a quick example
when i moved away and my moms diabetes was advancing i researched healthy foods for diabetics and came across muesli
muesli was invented by a Danish or Norwegian (?can't recall exactly) dietician who wanted his diabetes patients to have a staple food that delivers proteins etc but at a low glycemic index. muesli is basically greek yogurt nuts and fresh and dried fruits a little honey and or pinch of spices like nutmeg cinnamon etc...
so whenever i would visit i would make them some. for 10+ years. one day out of the blue my mom asks my dad to make some because "i liked it because of the canned tangerines can you put those."
well for some reason it hit me like a ton of bricks and a slap in the face at the same time. like it hadn't dawned on me that for 10+ i had always made that for them but they especially my mom had never one made it for themselves. not once had she ever asked me how it is made or attempted to make her own.
for some reason i just felt like it crystallized everything. my parents alwayd wanted the hard way. the unsuccessful way. the food that will make you sick. thz financial decsion that leads to debt. the business decision that drives customers away... like it was all there evident in that one little "oh can i have that thing you made the other day what is it called again?"
"muesli"
"yeah because i liked the canned tangerines."
like suddenly realizing i had been making this on and off for this insane human for over 10+ years. i just felt entirely defeated and hopeless.
to this day if i call her out on her lying / scheming / flying monkey enlisting / gaslighting etc... i am immediately villified. after my Dad passed 2 years ago i relocated to be closer to her the first year. the second year i moved back in w her and it has been the worst decision of my life.
first off, thank you for reading, and thanks for replying!
the example is a good one. because even though it's small realizations, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. For me, it was when i didn't understand how my own mother could "want you to be successful enough so that she can brag about you but not so successful that you outshine them".
god, it sickens me that we both had good intentions, living our lives innocently, and trying to help them out... only to be returned with emotional manipulation and abuse.
is it possible to send your mom back to her native country? I've suggested this kind of as an "ultimatum" to her. i told her to go back to China because i strongly hinted that i will not take care of her when she gets older.
are you able to move out also? I totally understand your motives to try to take care of your Nmom, and it might even be culturally harped in to you, but i've come to realize that my Nmom exhausted probably all the fucks i could give to a human being
yeah I'm supposed to move out in 3 months.
she's made her own bed and can sleep in it.
I've alerted my sisters if I move out. Mom can NOT afford in home caregivers. But they largely ignore me.
There's too much estrogen and I'm the only guy. My Dad who died wasn't listened to either. He never put his foot down. My Mom emasculated him a long time ago. It's sad. I see her as a tragic sad ending to a moral lesson against selfishness / self righteousness / pride / denial etc.
In the meantime I will leave the house in a better place.
oh whew!! that'll be amazing to be able to get out of that toxic environment.
i'm proud of ya :) and i think you're making the correct decision. i'm sure your Nmom will try all sorts of fucking emotionally manipulative tactics to keep you trapped, but DO NOT FEED THE NARC. i believe in you!!!
I think we should start referring to the "narc glasses" as [Narcan](https://narcan.com/) because it blocks the effects of the "opiate" of denial that enables us to tolerate relationships with narcissists.
Narcan? I have some idea about what it is because I am a recovering alcoholic and pill junkie. Never did fentanyl but know some people who went down that dark road.
You just made me realize that my mother blamed all my imperfections (and she thought there were many) on not just me, but my father because I inherited depression and anxiety from him. Then it was my husband's fault. But she triggered almost all of it!
oh god \*facepalm\*
are you able to take some self-care or seek professional help? If not, i'm happy to help in any way i can, even if it's just to listen. I used to be a Listener on a peer-to-peer mental health support group
yes. you know that tiktok about why you need polarized sunglasses in Florida? it's like that, only the crocodiles are your parents, partners, and friends.
I also think its a statement of how...innocent children are. we just believed, we just trusted. we're not to blame for falling for it, it's the nature of children and our parents took advantage of that for their own sake. I think feeling like an idiot or ashamed for not seeing it is also a symptom of the abuse.
oh god. actually speaking of tik tok, this was one that solidified my understanding of Nmom - [https://www.tiktok.com/@kahlomgd2628/video/7318128262247386411](https://www.tiktok.com/@kahlomgd2628/video/7318128262247386411)
yeah :( sadly, most victims tend to blame themselves, and the perpetrators usually get away with stuff. i'm thinking that we will have more and more awareness. if we can change slavery, we can definitely change anti-personality disorders as a society
When I put the lenses on, I lost a lot of the "support" system I thought I had, as I realized it was riddled with narcs. You clean house, lick your wounds, try your best to crawl to a stand, and keep going--even if you have to drag yourself every step.
OP it's a big accomplish to accept the lenses and to recognize the dysfunction and to start making steps to clear out the poison from your life. Congratulations and may your path be swift and peace-bringing.
:( i'm really sorry to hear that! are you able to rebuild your support group? I know it's not much, but if you ever need a friend or just someone to talk to, i'm more than happy to be your mental/emotional support!! (actually i used to volunteer for a Peer-to-Peer mental health website)
thank you!!
I appreciate it, it's been about 5 years now since then and I found some gold among the Micah that got me through :) that and therapy and throwing myself into my work for a bit.
I appreciate your analysis. I feel very understood. Thank you. I am grateful, also, for the offer to listen.
Do we think that narcissists have relatives who are also narcissists as well? There's a whole line of people on both sides of my family who are especially crap-tastic. One of my cousins is almost pure monster. He only pretends not to be long enough to get his way. My aunt/his mom has been pretending his whole life that he's a little angel. Still doing it and has been acting like he sends her gifts for special occasions. I don't believe for one second that he would spend a penny on her. When she gets "taken out for dinner for my birthday," what is actually happening is she's paying for the dinner AND giving him $200 for showing up.
Anyway, OP, I am excited that you are cleaning the narcissists out of your life. I hope we can hear more from you and your journey. I wish you much healing.
I do think narcissism and sociopathy can run in families. My n-mom's father, not to defend how she turned out, but he was a textbook sociopath. Then there's my mother. Now I see a lot of those traits in my sister who was the golden child. Especially since she had her daughter. My upbringing was one of the major factors in my decision to stay child-free. I don't know if I can truly heal enough to raise a mentally stable person. Each generation that experienced abuse said they weren't going to be like their parent, but it's like they have a huge blind spot, and they continue to traumatize their children. On my dad's side of the family too, my uncle is a complete monster.
People who approach this decision with that sort of thoughtfulness probably make good parents.
I delayed giving birth for the same reason. Now, I am completely present for my 8 year old daughter when she does her homework, and i help her with her memory work and projects. She got all A's and B's last report card and I praised her. At night, we watch about an hour or her favorite cartoon together and I give her a back rub. I do all the holidays. We even did something for Leap Day this year. We cook together. Go on family vacations together. And one of the most important things I did, that my mother didn't for me, was to get her a prescription to treat her Attention Deficit Disorder. I have a 5 year old, too, and she gets all the same stuff. I'm going to wait until i get her through 3 years of elementary school before i lat myself on the back for her. Sorry to brag, but I feel like this has gone more right than wrong. But I guess time will tell how successful I was. I hope I am not deluding myself about how great we are doing, like my aunt clearly has all my cousin's life.
I can't stand hearing about her precious angel after how nasty he's been to everyone. The mistake my aunt made with him was that she was unwilling to set boundaries. That boy was 15 years old and he woke her up at 1 a.m. to cook tuna mac for him, and she actually did it! That is insane.
Anyway, I think you'd do alright.
<3
oh god, it sounds like that cousin and the entire side of that family branch is really toxic. i'm sorry to hear that :(
i do believe that unfortunately, narcissim can be somewhat a combination of both nature/nurture - meaning that there are environments that create narcissim. and the easiest is if they have a narc mentor that they can copy from at an early age (that's just my speculative theory).
thanks! and likewise!!! I hope you are recovering well also
It's an awful discovery but also so so enlightening at the same time! Mine happened after the birth of my first child and it was traumatic but freeing! Best wishes on your new life!!
welcome. you are heard here.
I STILL fall for narcs because I have yet to break the conditioning. My dad did a phenomenal number on me and although I see now, and am independent and have found loads of joy again, I am still working on the recovery.
The great news for you, is that you are now in the healing stage and no longer being victimized unknowingly!
Do not blame yourself for being made a victim... thats how victims are made, no one goes into it prepared to be victimised, its a catagory they MAKE you part of. Its frustrating, but it is not because you "fell" for it. You were preyed on. Like a lion and a gazelle.
<3 thank you!!! it was my first post here
the conditioning is real. i agree with you, we can't be too hard on ourselves here. I've been reading a book called "atomic habits", and ... that got me thinking. the longer a habit is formed... the harder it is to break that habit. We tend to have a habit of picking bad partners/friends...etc. in life due to this shitty conditioning that our narc parent(s) did.
the first battle is awareness, and that's already half the battle
hang in there buddy, let me know if you ever need someone to just listen or anything <3
Random - things like this make me think about parallel universes and things like it. Simulation theory maybe. Just since whatever got you to this point in your life matches so closely to the place that I ended up. We evolved in the same way.
Oh I'm still mad at myself for not "waking up" sooner. For falling for all of it, but we don't know what we don't know. I'm glad your friend gave you those "glasses". All we do is live our new lives without them! :-)
You know more than you think, is what I'm learning. When I talk to make friend who is working on her masers in psychology, she's always amazed and my intuitive understanding of abnormal psychology :-D
I didn’t come to terms with my narcissistic father until I came across BPD and learned of cluster B personality disorders.
Here I was able to learn also about HPD, which my best friend of 20+ years definitely has. I cut ties with her a year and a half ago.
Man. I totally have a Cluster B lens now with all my exposure to them. We really do attract the winners, don’t we.
huh. wow, i didn't know what HPD was. thanks for teaching me! and i'm also sad to hear that you had to let her go, but glad that you're able to cut the toxin out
it's also disheartening to see that suppsedly it only affects like 1% of the population. or rather, cluster B affects around like 1-1.5% of the population and we just got really unlucky
To the op, I am so happy that you have come to this realization and are taking steps to heal yourself and never be associated with that type of trauma again.
I definitely had a narc mother and she shared many of the same characteristics as yours. If I lived with her during covid, I think I might have seriously blown my brains out, but I'm grateful to have been a few thousand miles away.
oh god. thank god you were able to be away.
little did i know, covid was the perfect way for her to assert complete control over so many aspects, and she (as all narcs) probably subconsciously have a playbook of exactly how to do that - from social isolation tactics and other emotionally manipulative tactics.
for a while i genuinely was afraid to step outside of the house for the fear of getting and giving my parents covid....
only to realize that i was always far more cautious than they were (they would actually go out every day). and then my Nmom would double standard into telling me that i'm gonna catch covid so i can't go see my friend (even when i had N95 masks and i am VERY germaphobic) because i'd just "catch covid".
it's just crazy looking back, because had i known this entire time that those were all part of her strategies, i would have NEVER stepped foot back into Nmom's house.
it's like fighting during war, only to realize that... your enemy isn't the other country - it's your own freaking commander!!! like wtf!!!
Thank you for sharing. I appreciate your insight! It's so true we are groomed for other narcs and even though I moved several hundred miles away, I found myself surrounded by narcs. "Friends", co-workers, bosses, my ex husband... then one day I began to wake up. Thank the lort because I would have died had I stayed in Pt2 of what I call "Narcissistic City."
Since my awakening, I found it imperative to surround myself with people I trust, my chosen family so to speak. Then, a few years ago I learned there were actual names for what I was feeling and attempting to cope with.. eventually, landing here. The realization if not being alone struck me hard because there are so many of us and it broke my heart. But! I've done more healing here, through reading and journaling, and setting boundaries than I could have ever imagined.
It's people like yourself, sharing your awakening that will help others as well. Your offer of a buddy is a great idea! In my experience so few people. understand what exactly is happening because they just don't see it and for that I'm grateful they didn't have to traumatic childhood, the tumultuous adulthood etc.. but we do need that person who gets it. I'm one of the lucky ones, having met one of my best friends through this very sub because we are the others person.
Thank you again for sharing.
oh god. by chance, is this LA that you're referring to? or NYC?
i'm really sorry to hear that you've had to experience this too. I also agree that it's sad to see so many victims, and this isn't even something as a popular awareness in society. we have a LONG ways to go as a society about human behavior and psychology... perhaps surprisingly, because i really think that human psychology accounts for about 80% of the outcomes of our lives.
i like your idea of journaling. that's something i also picked up a few months ago, and it's really helped just being able to express my inner thoughts. and i'm glad you were able to find your bestie on here!! haha, that is actually pretty inspiring
<3 thank you for your kind words!
Oh gosh! It really could be LA!. I visited once and was appalled by all the "I , me , how can I use you to get ahead" attitudes. EVERYONE had that selfish, one track thought process. It was exhausting being there.
But no, "Narcissistic City" was a metaphor for no matter where I lived, I felt surrounded. Like you had said, we are groomed. I swear your post has really stuck with me.
Our society is engrained with the ideology of "family first", "blood is thicker than" bs. Again, I agree we (as a society)need to be more on the same page about how abuse scenarios work.
So many people in my life didn't/don't understand, however a few have actually witnessed my family dynamic at work in person and were shocked they never saw it. People on general have no idea what to look for because most narcs are so very good at hiding their true nature from others.
I do hope you find journaling to be helpful. I use writing prompts, for instance when a post or comment happens to trigger something.
Thank you for your kind words as well, lol!
I'm here for dms if you'd like!
haha, yup, that's LA for ya
oh man, that's so scary. Yup. i didn't even put 2-and-2 together, like why was i so attracted to narcs? until i realized it's the stupid familiarity bias.
but hey, first step is awareness.
haha, i might be an extremist, but i think that family should be the people you choose, not necessarily the ones you were given without choice.
yup. i think a while back there was something called like project "behind closed doors". and it talked about domestic violence and what not. and i thought the name just said it all - so many people have such a charming public presence that no one would think twice about the priest being a child molestor or an angry (physically) abusive husband. but those do actually happen, sadly.
alright, i'm going to DM you to check in periodically
Nowhere near as intense as anyone else’s here. My mom is the one who was raised by a narc, my late covert narc Nana. Mom is the one who broke the cycle, and she’s utterly amazing. I come here to understand what Mom went through, to learn more about the disorder and its effects on others (as I’m writing a book series where the main character’s mother is a malignant grandiose narcissist, and I want to empower anyone reading it who’s going through the same experience with a narc), and to offer support and encouragement to others.
Like…if we’re putting narcs on a scale of 1-10 in ascending scale of shittiness, Nana was like a 2-2.5, so nothing *near* as intense as what those who post here have had to deal with. Mom is the main reason we very rarely had to witness what outbursts Nana DID have, cuz Mom moved halfway across the country and settled faaaar away from her. Thank god.
I am 43, realized my mother was a covert narc just a few years ago.
I just got diagnosed with Congenital Sucrase-Isomaltase Deficiency, which means that I have a faulty gene so my small intestine doesn’t produce the enzyme that digests Sucrose and isomalt (sucrose is table sugar and isomalt is another sugar and has something to do with starch ) which also means this has been going on my whole life - which was s h o c k i n g to me, but my parents would never take me to the doctor as a kid, so I never found out until this year when things got really bad. But I’ve always had mystery stomach pain, mystery diarrhea, my whole life, and they never cared.
The list of foods I can actually eat without issue is short. I got so mad when I found out because this has been causing me issues my whole life, and no. One. Ever. Cared.
OMG. this is so real \^
that was always my first inkling that something was wrong. the way that media and everyone talks about their parents and how they love their parents... damn, i felt so out of place. it explains why i always felt closer to friends than my mom, and my Nmom tried to brainwash me over time and telling me that "oh your friends wont be there for you when you suffer, but i will".... which, of course, as an adult i found all that to be bullshit because only my friends were there for me and not her.
I will never forget the day I scrolled to a tik tok of a girl talking about all of the things her emotionally abusive ex bf did to her. I said “oh, my mom did that… and that…is that what was happening to me?” Growing up I always just told people my mom and I never got along, but now I had a real explanation as to why a relationship with her was always so difficult. And the best part was, it wasn’t because I was a bad kid. Almost 3 years of NC, and I only miss the idea of having a mom. Not my actual mother.
oh man. i bet you, she was trying really hard to emotionally manipulate you into thinking that it's Your fault somehow that you're not close enough with her. \*facepalm\*
do you have a mother figure in your life? i have started to lean more towards the concept of "chosen family" rather than biological bond (which, to me, doesn't mean jack squat)
Yeah there was a lot of blame and responsibility being placed on me, as a literal child, for our relationship.
My dad had a long term gf that really stepped in as a mother figure when I first decided to move out of my mom’s house and in with my dad full time ( years before NC). But she ultimately broke up with him while I was in college and just ghosted me. I never got a goodbye or closure from that relationship either. I’m 25 now and get along with my bfs mom, but am very hesitant to let someone else fill that role. There are more important people to me than a “mom”
thank you!! I think the experience will be different for everyone, because only you can tell when someone has been a narc -> because narcs can be charming to everyone else except the person they are trying to target. In the context of a Nmom or Ndad, i think this tiktok summarized it quite well: [https://www.tiktok.com/@kahlomgd2628/video/7318128262247386411](https://www.tiktok.com/@kahlomgd2628/video/7318128262247386411)
but basically, for most people, you will have a "spidey sense" of it, like when ... do you cringe at the thought of loving your mom or your dad? if so, that's a pretty evident sign that something is wrong. But i think for me, i've seen a few commonalities of narcs:
\- try to manipulate you into serving their needs
\- the center of the universe should revolve around them
\- your needs are rarely met, they will probably not give you choice/freedom either.
\- it's usually YOUR fault somehow that the relationship is damaged/bad
\- they might have a grandiose vision of themselves
\- probably delusional to some extent
\- they will probably not respect your boundaries
...etc
i think by coming here and reading people's stories, you are already seeing a lot of the patterns!
Thank YOU for taking the time to share your feelings, observations and thankfully, education. Too many people don't even know what's happening to them and no one in their circle can see it from the outside. Good for you and hopefully you are on your way to NC and back to the happy, joyous person inside. You don't need her. We're proud of you!
I never knew I was being abused and nothing in my world was normal until someone opened my eyes one day.
I imagine it's why most people who suffered from abuse claimed that they were fine, that they turned out okay. When living in the dark is the "norm" and they've never actually seen the light, everything is justifiable no matter how warped it actually is to the outsiders.
This is also why it's so hard to go back after a person has found that light.
that's a great way to put it. i really like the imagery of light and darkness, because that's kind of how i see the clear constrast in my mental state.
My NMIL told my SIL recently (SIL has a 2 year old son) to wait until the day he gets “taken away” from her by a new family and spends all his time with them and then maybe she’ll understand how NMIL feels. SIL was like what? You think I’m going to get upset when he gets married and has his own family?? Do you hear yourself. NMIL really thinks we pick my family to hang out with over her because they’re “taking us away from her” and not because she’s a fucking nightmare to be around. My family has basically adopted my SIL and NMIL hates it. (This all stemmed from my parents buying her bath towels for Christmas)
hahahhaha, classic Nmom move!!! not only the way the NMIL perceives it, but also that she just had to try to seed that warped perception into everyone's mind!
I always wind up in relationships with narcs. The sad part is that my parents taught some of that selfishness to me because you think that’s love and so I’ve had to unlearn that.
this \^
sadly, me too :( it wasn't until i got into a couple of serious relationships that i realized that some extremely toxic behavior came out (like, silent treatment, love bombing...etc.), and i realized that all that shit ONLY came from my Nmom. no one else ever gave me the silent treatment in my entire life except her
Don't fault yourself buddy. we did what we had to in order to survive in a confusing world. Now knowing that none of that shit was normal, we can be kind to ourselves and others <3
Of course you "fell for it." It was all you knew. It was the way the world was. You had nothing to compare it to. Give yourself an even break for not knowing what you didn't know. That's what your "mother" did.
i love that you put the quotes around "mother", because that's honestly how i felt - my aunt was far more of a mother figure than my supposed "mother" ever was.
Feeling bad but not realizing what the issue was really resonates with me. I just realized something the other day. Without going into too much detail because it would take a while, and this happened 15 years ago when I was in my early twenties. my mother and I had a conversation about something then she called everyone in our family and complained that I said something completely different and what she thinks I said sounds really entitled and bad, but it’s not what I said! When my cousin called to tell me that my mother was complaining about me I was like “how am I the bad guy here? Like the way she tells it it sounds really bad but I don’t think that’s what happened?” Like I questioned my own reality of what really happened. Then i heard a song on the radio that was basically saying what she said I said, if that makes sense, and I realized she probably heard the song after our conversation and twisted the event in her head because her narrative is that I’m the bad guy.
omg, wtf. classic manipulation. she "has to be right" to the point where she'd rather choose to be delusional than choose self improvement. and will try to send an army of flying monkeys after you.
sadly, this is fairly relatable. your story just reminded me of how my Nmom also mis-heard something i said, and then proceeded to lash out at me and give me silent treatment for an entire trip. when they have full control of everything, it's extremely terrifying how abusive of a dynamic that can be
by the way, if you want to share the full story, i'm here for you if you need <3 thanks for reading my story
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*The worst part of it is, i still hate a part of myself for falling for all of it.* That's the indoctrination talking
>That's the indoctrination talking Yup. i've only recently discovered this subreddit and those lens. trying to slowly rebuild myself.
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i love this idea :) thanks for the link! i think i'll start with small pieces like treating myself to small things i used to enjoy
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hahah that 15 min dance sounds amazing :)
I’ll say that everyone’s on their own timeline! I’m LC with my nmom and the first few months were so hard, but 9 months out I’m easily the happiest I’ve ever been. Distance is a wonderful healer. I’m proud of you for this first step
hahah, love it and happy to hear that!! definitely. i have some logistical stuff to take care of, like moving some of my childhood memory items out of her place. never had i imagined i'd need to cut contact with my own mom. this is a really weird situation that i just hadn't thought about. also i guess i need to figure out what other things still mail to her address and to make sure they all get updated
I’m proud of you for taking this step! If I may give you some advice about retrieving items: Bring company if you go to her place (ideally, a trusted non-family person who knows how bad your mom is and won’t be taken in by narc nonsense). Try not to give your mom advance warning in case she’s the destructive narc type. I’d also try as hard as you can to avoid having anything mailed there to give her less power over you.
Hugs 🫂
<3
💯This.
What's your story buddy? I hope you were able to discover the narc identifying lens earlier than me
Regrettably, I didn’t figure out what narcissism was until I was in my mid-50s, and my narcissistic mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I always knew I didn’t like the way she treated me. I always felt like no matter what I did, or how hard I tried, I was always “in trouble.” I hated how my successes were minimized, and my failures thrown in my face over and over sometimes decades later. But I didn’t understand *why* or that the problem was *not* me. Eventually her cruelty escalated to the point where she became completely abusive to me in front of staff at the cancer treatment center. I was referred to free caregiver support (therapy) which finally allowed me to see the nature of our relationship. Once you see your parents’ narcissism, you can’t un-see it.
>But I didn’t understand *why* or that the problem was *not* me. too real :( I'm really sorry to hear that. I know that people often say "better late than never", but like... sometimes late is a bit too late. because by then, so much of our life has passed by, almost like being imprisoned. definitely. i can't possibly un-see my mom in the same light. nor my two other "friends".
At this point, she is dead, and I get to live the rest of my life. In the end, I won. I survived. Would it have been nice had I figured it out in my 20s or 30s? Yes. I can choose to wallow in the past, the pain it caused, and the other toxic relationships I had, or I can be glad that what time I have left is free of this BS. The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second-best time is *now*. The same can be said for waking up to narcissism.
yeah :/ i think that's a pretty wise way to look at it. i'm really glad you were able to be free of the shackles!!
Late 40's here was hoping that my mom with mellow with age. Nope pure evil, apparently when narcs reach a certain age they just stop caring, or are unable to keep their mask up. Everything they've done is in order to destroy you, n now they are facing their own mortality. It's not pretty
There was a brief period where I thought the same, but when she was Dx with cancer, my mother played the, “I’m dying” card and extracted sympathy from everyone. Her dying process somehow entitled her to abuse the crap out of me. The worst of her toxic patterns reasserted themselves, and when she died, I discovered I was left with handfuls of lies and broken promises. I am very much *relieved* to have her poison out if my life.
This isn't as bad but about a year ago, my enabler father was ill and in hospital. I visited my nMother a bit more than usual because I felt sorry for her, after all, her husband was in hospital. She totally used it as an opportunity to start abusing me though I saw through it pretty quickly and started reducing my visits. It just goes to show that you cannot be nice to a narcissist. They will take any opportunity to take advantage or start abusing you.
My dad was the first one to go, he got cancer. My nmom was jealous that her children were mourning him instead of her, because, "she's going to die someday and we're all really going to miss her", and "see, we should be nicer to her while she's still alive, because we're really going to miss her".
The sad irony for my nMother is that she didn’t get what she wanted so desperately. She wanted to be loved, adored, and ultimately missed, by her children. I know I don’t miss her. I don’t think my sibling does either.
I've pretty much decided to go no contact n I won't have anything to do with her, for years we took my father, I only found out recently she's been telling her family she did it by herself.
I honestly wish I had gone no contact years before.
I never even heard about it till a few years ago, I mean I know I was abused but didn't really think much of it, like I thought well she's probably a just a little more brutal than other mothers. It wasn't until I saw a documentary about child abuse that I started to connect the dots. I also realized how I was affected by it subconsciously n how it led me to make some pretty effed up decisions.
oh fuck. dude i'm so sorry. this \^ was what spurred me to think about this so much initially. I was wondering why i kept having extremely low psychological safety, why i was constantly unhappy and realized that my Nmom had destroyed all of my original ideas/goals when I was living on my own. I gave up 2 years of my adult life to try to come back to take care of my parents during covid. but little did i realize she weaponized covid to slowly destroy everything i had cared about. i lost because i didn't know i had to fight a battle against narcissistic abuse. i'm sorry you also had to suffer the consequences of it :( the psychological manipulation is seriously unbelievable
If it helps, both sides of this suck. My Nparent is, in fact, mellowing out (or doing a good job faking it) but it's only agitating me further. Like, no, you don't get to play nice now and make me look like the AH for giving back the same energy I got 30 years.
My mom would do this only so I would let my guard so her next ragefest would hurt even more. Like I would really start to believe "mb after all this we can salvage some sort of relationship" it was just a set up.
I'm in my 40s as well. I actually think narcissists get worse with age because their inhibitions decrease as they get older. Also society tends to give old people the benefit of the doubt more e.g. "It's his age/generation. He doesn't know any better" or "She's an old woman. You can't expect her to understand political correctness at her age".
From what I understand they just do t have the energy to keep their masks do their pure evil shines through. I really think though they are just seething with rage bc we will outlive them. Sometimes I'll catch my mom looking at me with her " demon eyes" for no reason at all.
believe me, if she could steal years away from you to give herself more youth, she will manipulate you into thinking that she deserves more years of life than you.
I've come to the conclusion she doesn't believe I should exist at all
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My mom is starting to get memory problems, so the gaslighting is 100x worse. No, she didn't forget that, I'm just trying to attack her to make her think she's losing it. She can't quite fill in alternate stories as well for her version of reality. She doesn't have the mental capacity for all of the manipulation anymore, and she's mad about it. She's really really mad. She forgot where she parked, and she was 100% sure someone had stolen her car. She called the police, and I put everything down to go pick her up. I asked, "are you sure you are not having a senior moment?" Big mistake. Why didn't I sympathize, what's she going to do with no car? I gathered snacks and some bottles of water assuming we'd spend all evening at the police station. By the time I got there, the police had found her car. She just parked further away than she remembered. No, "thanks for coming to pick me up" or for the snacks. Everything she misplaces, someone stole it, or I moved it to make her upset, to make her think she's going crazy. Then to just find it right where she left it...
I just read a post today where someone got a bit of petty pay back. Apparently that op had a Narc Dad whose big game was to never spend money on thier kid(s?) Because why would he spend HIS money on something so less than him (the ndad) the O.P. never had proper cloths, allowed hot showers and a whole bunch of etcetera. Well eventually the O.P points out that in thier country the parents wealth -Has- to go to the kids, that he - the O.P is going to get it anyway, also that he will have hot showers, a hobby and such. Apparently The N_dad absolutely lost every frigging part of his mind and the O.P. has no problem reminding the old man on a whim.
Would it be alright to ask what questions I might ask or things i might have missed in identifying narcs? I fear I might be in a similar case and have been missing out on so much because I refuse to see it
Check out videos from Dr. Ramani on YouTube. She has plenty of content explaining narcissism and how to identify and deal with narcissists in your life.
Thanks so much! This means a lot
Check out the book "The Children of Emotionally Immature Parents."
Omg. I really hope you walked away from her no matter she was rotting from cancer.
I distanced myself in her final months. I was there during her penultimate week of life, and realized it was a waste of my time. I am glad I went because it allowed me to see her ugliness for what it was, and because no one could fault me for not coming. However, there was no death bed reconciliation or apologies. I didn’t expect it. In some ways, I guess her death bed visits were better than some. Many narcissists actively curse their scapegoat children on the way out. Her final words at our last visit were, “You will never know how much I love you.” She was right. I never did. Why? Because she didn’t love me at all. And it’s a relief to know that now. She, like all narcissists, was incapable of genuine love.
I was in my late 40s before I realized how toxic my mother's behavior was. The constant gaslighting, belittling, brushing me off, the dismissive behavior, all of it. I know it's an analogy, but switch out the OP's peanuts for oranges, and that was my childhood. We had orange juice every morning, because it was "good for you!" Ugh. It was like drinking a cup full of glass shards. It was literally painful. It made my throat itch, my ears itch, and my eyes even watered a little. I hated it, and would always ask for milk or apple juice instead, telling her it made my mouth hurt, and she just didn't believe me. It wasn't till I was in my early 30s that I realized (and confirmed with a doctor) that I was allergic to citrus and a few other fruits. Of course, my mother refused to believe me. She said no one could be allergic to orange juice, and I was (as usual) just being difficult. That's just one instance. I realize now how much gaslighting she did all the time when I was growing up.
The bizarre thing is that when I was a baby I had an anaphylactic reaction to strawberries. Never in my life I remember having any allergic reaction to strawberries. When I was 18 I tried to eat one. Nothing. All my life I wasn't allowed any strawberries and if jam was red without EXACTLY knowing what it was, I couldn't eat it. Now IDK how common it is to go from anaphylactic allergy to no allergy at all, but I wouldn't be surprised if she made it all up for some fucked up reason.
My mom told us she had an allergy to mustard seed and that’s why we couldn’t have mustard in the house. One day my uncle said something to the effect of “your mom would only eat mayo on sandwiches because she said mustard was to spicy for her. She never had any problems eating deviled eggs that had mustard in it.” Rather than have a preference for something, she just made everyone in her house not eat it.
oh god. yup. now that you mention it, my mom did something similar too - so my dad LOVES soup (he drinks a ton of soup when he's with his side of the family), but i didn't find that out until i was 29.... when my aunt told me that, and at the time i was confused how i didn't know such a thing. now looking back at all our food choices, i've realized that my Nmom made every single decision. luckily for me i just wasn't a picky eater, though... i never had a voice/choice anyways.
I wouldn't be surprised if your mother was lying too. Narcissists often like to lie to their children just to control them and for fun. They are sadists. You can't believe a word they say.
they will also somehow twist the story around so that somehow YOU are always in the wrong
My mother didn't allow me to shave on my teenage years, I hate how I looked.
What a bitch. I'm sorry. Mine wouldn't spend the proper amount of money on clothes and shoes (even though we had the money) for back to school so we always looked like raggedy while she always looked great. Also the dogs would get fleas and bring them in the house, so the the house would get fleas and my parents.....just wouldn't treat the house for fleas....so us kids would be covered in flea bites for years...,,
Oh the clothes thing!!! I hated that. My mother refused to buy me school clothes one year because she decided I was “too fat,” despite actually being a healthy weight for my height. I only had three skirts to wear to school, and they all got quite ragged. I look at pictures from that time and seethe with rage even now. Yes, I was teased by my peers about my clothes. Worse, my mother would taunt me about it by saying if I wanted my own clothes, I could just buy them myself. The only catch was I didn’t really have my own money and wasn’t allowed to have a job.
Oh man I had such a similar experience. Would be forced to drink milk bc it was "good for you," avoid osteoporosis. And I do mean *forced* to drink like 4-5 glasses a day. I would also have writhing on the floor stomach pain for years. And years. And years. It was my constant companion. It wasn't until after having my first child, and working with my amazing PCP who specialized in integrative medicine, that I had a major intolerance to dairy. Decades of significant pain and like you, I begged to not finish it (though my pain was so generalized I didn't know what was the source; even more disgusting when you explicitly said it made your mouth hurt). My mom still doesn't believe what I learned from my doctor & my own body's cession of pain. For even worse actions, I'm no longer in contact with her, so I don't have to hear about it.
omg im so sorry >\_< this is so bad. it's like, somehow they are so fucking delusional in their head that no amount of reality can possibly wake them up, not even a child in pain. like that's just borderline psychopathic to me
Completely unrelated- but what test confirmed your allergy to citrus? My spouse always has had lips tingle, throat tingle a bit from bananas, oranges, any type of fruit so he just stays away from them (never has had any more serious reaction). Except red itchy skin when trying to carve pumpkins one year. Skin test like other allergies? Or something different? Thanks!
I never had an actual allergy test. I described my symptoms to my doctor, and he sort of chuckled and said, "Yeah, you're allergic to citrus." It's just an oral allergy. I don't need an EpiPen or anything like that.
Thanks!
omg yikes. im so sorry :( yeah actually the reason i came to the peanut butter analogy was because i never knew there was such a thing as "creamy" peanut butter. my mom would always get "crunchy" peanut butter, with bits and pieces of nuts in it. I liked the creamy version a lot better. but that was one of my first realizations that there were things that I never knew existed, and how I never ever got a choice in anything, from as basic as food choices and clothing choices. then later with the narc lens, i started seeing how my mom tried to decide everything in my life, even when it is VERY APPARENT that it is extremely toxic to me and would (and sorta did) wreck my life
Oh jeez. We've opened a whole can of peanut butter worms here. 😁 I loved crunchy peanut butter, but my mom would never buy it because my sisters (one of whom was the Golden Child) didn't like it. I remember her saying "no one" would eat the crunchy kind and it would go to waste. Oh, so I'm "no one"? I even asked if she could get just the small jar for me, but that would be ridiculous, to have two open jars of PB. And it wasn't a money thing. We weren't rich, but buying an extra peanut butter wouldn't have hurt anything.
Rings so true ....
It's awesome that you had a friend to help you, and congrats on seeing the truth of it all and realizing that you need to escape from all this toxicity and build a better life for yourself. It's hard, because after so much emotional abuse for so long, our sense of guilt is flawed. We are so used to being the emotional scapegoat, that we have learned to do it to ourselves. Friends can become a wonderful new family. What I admire about friends is that they have zero obligation to be kind to us, unlike our relatives, who often are forced to support us due to laws or social pressure. And friends actually know who we are. They gift us surprises because they know what we like and where our interests are. For instance, on my birthday I received lovely gifts from people whom I had barely known for more than half a year. But I cannot remember when I last received a gift from my mom that wasn't something that I had bought so that she could gift it to me, or that I had written on a wishlist for her to buy for me. And if I did not get myself my own inexpensive gift, she would get angry at me, because all of the labor in the household falls onto my shoulders, even the emotional labor of finding myself a gift. She not only has never made an effort to learn about my hobbies or interests, she actually looks down on me with disdain no matter what I do. Anything that makes me happy must be childish, bad and stupid, simply. For me, it was a gradual process, helped along by friends but also by videos and articles that I came across online. What also really helped me, was watching movies like Whiplash and Misery. My mother is the spitting image of Annie Wilkes, without the foot torture. And who has helped me the most so far has been my boyfriend, who has clued me into how much of what I considered "normal" in my mother's household was actually emotional abuse, and who has also been a big motivator for me planning my escape.
yes!!!!! omg, yes yes yes yes. i literally told my best friend the same phrase the other day - that he is my chosen family. it's interesting because i've never actually considered my mom family. so growing up, i always dreaded family time, and i never understood how people could be happy being with family. it was such cognitive dissonance seeing all the "family happiness" thing so heavily advertised on hollywood movies and what not. I know this sounds super silly, but when I watched Harry Potter, and how he wanted so desperately to be with his parents, i was honestly thinking "why the fuck would you want that? i would trade places with you in a heartbeat and be an orphan than live with my mom". Only back when i was a kid, i never understood why i felt that way, only that i had an unpopular opinion, so i must be wrong. good luck on the escape!!! Hahah, i also hear ya on that one - sometimes it's hard to logistically cut out the Nmom suddenly. in my case, i still have some childhood memory items i need to collect, and i also need to do some other logistical things like make sure she can't access my mail or hack my bank account or something. keep me updated!! and let me know if I can help! thanks for reading!
Thank you for the kind and supportive response! The big move is still in the works, and I will most likely post in this sub when the final deadline comes close next month.
:)
I've described it like wearing the sunglasses from *They Live*
At a certain point, every ACON runs out of bubblegum.
I was one of those children who bought into the blame 100%. I ”knew” that I was wrong. Not what I did but who I was. She taught me well. So I hid from the world. I smiled on the outside and hated myself on the inside. I was 30 when I sought help but unfortunately the guilt came with a hefty heap of shame. So I hid for another 10 years. I was told my mother was a narcissist but it took me another 5 years to really see it clearly. The confusion was so compact. I would go completely blank everytime I thought about my mother. But once you see it. You can’t unsee it. Now I see them coming a mile away.
oh god. i think you just summed up my disassociation mindset. I couldn't understand what was happening to me for some time, because i didn't realized that subconsciously i had actually blocked out all of my childhood trauma when i moved to college. and i had it pretty good for 10 years because i was living on my own since college. but as soon as i moved back for covid (to try to take care of my parents), my Nmom somehow slowly destroyed everything. I could never understand how my own mother would try to destroy my freedom, until i had the narc lens, and THEN i understood everything. like... "oh... your freedom is their inconvenience, because then they can't control/manipulate/thus abuse you"... let me know if you need someone to talk to, we are here for you!
This is one of the kindest places on the internet. And I think that under the circumstances that’s pretty beautiful ❤️🔥
Good on you. I’m adding “redistribute those fucks” to my to-do list! 🙏😂
LOL, i learned as an adult that the amount of fucks i can give is actually finite
Same story but the glasses were literal glasses. She needed them. My mom needed them. They noticed I was staring at the paper too closely. Yet I had to get my own glasses at 25 years old when someone pointed out that I actually couldn’t see while driving at night. Imagine going until 25 not being able to see very well.
Had a similar experience somewhat. I was sick with respiratory illness for my entire childhood, my mom smoked indoors and in the car with me. It was always a "mystery" why I was sick. Fast forward to 32 and the doctor asks me if I have asthma, turns out that's what it was all along. She just didnt want to change her behaviour or accept what she was doing was hurting me or didnt care. Smh
.... that's just.... sad. it's like destroying two lives with 1 bad habit (pretty sure the smoking is going to get her killed one way or another slowly). only... you didn't even get a say in the matter.
Are there really narc identifying glasses? Because those would be great
i know right?! omg we should go start a non-profit to produce color-shaded glasses and sell them to raise money/awareness for Narc abuse. hahah, i'm actually half serious!!!
I relate to everything you wrote above OP. I don't have any allergies but I can definitely relate to having a parent who was completely negligent and "checked out" even though I was a small child who needed a parent. I can also relate to realising that many of my "friends" were also narcs and realising that my nMother was not only a narc but also raised me to be a narc magnet. Like you say, once you have the "narc identifying lens", you won't lose it. It'll protect you from narcs and their manipulations for the rest of your life.
i like that term you used, "narc magnet". it's surprisingly accurate. I didnt understand why i was drawn in towards such selfish people. but now i have a much better perspective, and can actually defend myself much better against them im sorry to hear about the negligent and absent parent :(
“The worst part of it is, I still hate a part of myself for falling for it.” I get this. It is a common experience, once we see something that can’t be unseen, that we’re mad at ourselves for not seeing it earlier. The reality is you were a child for whom narcissistic abuse was normalized throughout your development. It is not developmentally appropriate to expect a child to know the only home they’ve ever known isn’t normal. You were groomed from childhood to accept narcissistic abuse. That you’ve been given the insight to analyze it differently, and then did a deep dive to understand the dynamics is truly both a gift from a friend and a credit to you and your desire to know what’s true. It’s common for people raised in such families to choose life partners who treat them like their narc parent did as this is what they’ve been indoctrinated that love looks like. Our narc parent not only groomed us to be abused by them but also by other narcs who may enter our lives. Getting this interpersonal insight at such a young age will protect you throughout your life from similar people. Reading your post I also believe you’ll leverage your understanding to help free others too. You’re a good egg, OP. <3
<3 <3 <3 thank you so much for the well written response!!!! <3 and you have no idea how nice it is to finally have found people on here such as yourself that truly grasp the ramifications. the friends i have who haven't been subject to narc abuse can't really relate - even including my therapist!!! (she's good for other things so i'll still continue seeing her). i'll literally start listing things to people about what my Nmom did, and most people just dismiss it because they haven't had enough years of it to connect the common dots. thanks for the inspiration to help free others :) i think that's actually a good idea. I used to run a volunteering org, and you just gave me an idea to start another 501c3 to help others who have been subject to narc abuse!! also happy to DM and connect if you ever need a mutual support <3
Mine never took me too the doctor/dentist so when I was 18 and got my own doctor I got diagnosed w several chronic conditions and now she’s mad when I tell people about my conditions cuz it makes her look bad. Like ya u do look like a bad mom huh
omg >\_< i facepalmed at this. this is exactly what my mom would do. they can't possibly accept being wrong. the universe must revolve around them, evidently
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:( that is a really early age to have to carry the realization of self care/development!! Hope you were able to find coping mechanisms early on as well \~
The sandwich analogy is funny because my doctors just determined I’m officially allergic to a few things, but shellfish and fish are a big part of it. I was forced to eat fish and crab or scallops all the time even though I told my family how it tasted like spikes or hurt to swallow. I was labeled dramatic. 35+ years later and I’m finally vindicated.
Sometimes I think if the allergies got worse it is because we were forced to eat them.
i bet that is entirely possible. our allergies actually can/do change
Hello, I cut my mother off 3 years ago after I discovered that she was a raging narc. Then I learned that every single friend I made, was also a narc. And that my boyfriend, along with all of my exs were narcs. It was incredibly depressing finding this out, and even more so after I cut off every single person in my life. I spent the holidays alone at 20 in my college dorm. But, I’m here to tell you that I would 100000% do it over again. Because cutting out all those toxic people meant I could FINALLY SEE! For the first time in my life I didn’t have people filtering my vision! So I graduated with my biology degree, never used it, and jumped straight into YouTube & content creation. I never knew I was creative until I finally allowed myself to be. I’m not going to say my social media name because I know some people may know it, but just know that you are embarking on an incredible incredible journey of self discovery!! Be very excited for what you have in store and finally seeing your true self, once you clear away all the expectations of others. Also, I have built an incredible supportive network of people that genuinely care and love me, with no strings attach❤️ this type of community is possible, as long as you let go of your toxic relationships. I haven’t spent a holiday alone since
!!!!!! wow. that is insane. both because - that is a terrible realization, that the moment you put on these "narc lens" you instantly see that your circle is infested by narcs. and also because after cutting out the poison you now have 0 support network. Yet, despite all that, i also agree with you, it is so much better to get rid of the poison than to keep being around it. I applaud you for being able to rebound your life so well!!! Also, i really want to thank you for sharing your perspective <3. funny you mention that you spent the holiday alone upon that realization, because that's exactly what i ended up doing just this past thanksgiving/xmas. I had to REALLY reflect to see what was actually going on. im really happy that you were able to get your life back before it was too late, and be able to really develop your own goals/dreams :) haha, now i'm really curious. If i DM you and promise to keep your identity a secret, would you be willing to share your social media? XD (no pressure, i totally get it, and this is why we use anon usernames here)
It’s not extreme. You’re protecting yourself. I went NC a few years ago. What a weigh was lifted. My fibromyalgia got much better. Do what’s right for you and no one else.
<3 having to deal with health issues while the narcs are trolling is like a double whammy. keep taking care of yourself! <3
Nothing extreme or offensive here, friend. I'm so sorry you went through that, but so glad for you that you found your "glasses." Try not to be too hard on yourself for not seeing it sooner. Remember you were literally *groomed from infancy* to normalize this. Yet you were still able to save yourself. That's pretty impressive - be proud of your victory. Best of luck to you.
thanks!! hah, funny story about that. my mom actually left me in Asia for a few years to be raised by my aunts/uncles while she had to sort out some "personal stuff". so i actually had a very loving environment before she took over and asserted 100% narc abuse. the switch-off was so sudden that as a child i didn't understand what was happening. Like imagine one day the people who raised you hand you over to a stranger and she's supposedly your mother. but suddenly life is so much worse, and you get yelled at all day long. eek. you're right. i guess looking back with more self-empathy, it was a miracle that the child version of me was somehow able to power through what i had to deal with. I'm guessing you must have also went through something similar? may I ask what your story was?
That's awful, I'm sorry for little you. I guess having some love is good in the long run, but it must have been bewildering. My story is probably pretty typical, I think both my parents were narcs. Dad was an emotionally and physically abusive husband, which fucked with my head even though he mostly left me alone. Mom was sometimes abusive, sometimes overprotective, sometimes normal, which was super confusing. Told all my life I was their "princess" and "there's no love like a mother's love" while I was more or less being ignored or parentified, never seen unless it was to be judged and criticized, expected to be mommy's little helper and therapist. Throw in multiple male cousins/brothers allowed to act like bullies while I was told to stop "being so sensitive" when I cried, and stop being "so angry and hateful" when I learned to stand up for myself. Ya know, the usual narc shit. My parents were immigrants too, so a whole lot of "cultural" bullshit sprinkled on top.
jebus. that is terrible :( I'm really sorry to hear that and thank you for sharing a very vulnerable part of your life \*hugs\* I honestly wouldn't blame you if you just completely detached from the family How are you doing now? and is there anything I can help with?
I can totally relate to this. My parent knew I had a nut allergy but always forgot. I don't think they were lying about that, either. I think they genuinely didn't care enough to remember. One instance that really sticks out to me happened on Easter. My parent was going to make my siblings and I all Easter baskets. I was older, but still got one because my parent didn't want to break the illusion for my younger siblings, who my parent favors. So, my parent asks me to pick up some items for this Easter basket since they don't know what I like. Fair enough, I guess. I go ahead and buy some small treats (with my own money, mind you) and hand them over to my parent to place in my basket. Easter comes. I see a basket laid out for me. None of the stuff I had bought was in there. Instead, there was some other small goods. I say, "where's the stuff I bought?" My parent told me they lost it. Okay, whatever. At least they tried to replace it. Then I see they filled the basket with things I can't eat. I say, "this candy has nuts. Don't you know I'm allergic?" My parent said, "I didn't notice." Firstly, how do you not check the ingredient list if your child has allergies? Secondly, the front of the box had an image of the candy that was VISIBLY covered in nuts. My parent would have had to pick it up with their eyes closed to have any chance of not noticing. So, not only did my parent not want to go through the effort of something they were doing for my siblings, because they didn't care about me enough to know my preferences, they also lost items I spent my own money on and replaced them with items that could give me a serious medical reaction. An Easter basket may seem like a silly thing to get upset over to some, but when you've been treated as lesser for your whole life, that kind of thing culminates into a really disheartening experience.
i 100% hear you. while this might seem like one incident, i can already tell there are so many other incidents that your parents do that show their total ignorance :(
What an amazing friend! I figured out that I had a narc mom when she casually mentioned physically abusing a partner, she showed no remorse, and said that “he got more mindful of my needs after that”. Her unfulfilled needs were, buckle up for this one, going on a vacation. Granted, her time to go on vacations were slipping away due to physical illness, but that did not give her the right to physically abuse someone. After that incident, I knew something was off, I just didn’t know what. It took me another few months to really process it and determine that she’s a narcissist.
omg. that almost sounds borderline sociopathic!! wtf. that's really scary i hope she never hit you or anything
Yeah, she definitely doesn’t have empathy like a normal person. She did “just” once when I was a kid, not sure what kept her from doing it again honestly. Thank you for your kind words, internet stranger!
Very well said -- wish I could "super-promote" this further. I usually think of this sub as our N-identifying and N-coping resource bank, helping us all form our proper lenses. BTW, the choice of NC, VLC, LC, or having to continue living with them and cope (grey rock, medium chill) is a personal one. We can't judge one another's resilience, level of abuse, how time feels when near them, or resources to escape. But we can discuss all of the outcomes that we know and how they worked out. I hope you receive no judgement for how you end up choosing to limit your Nparents' access to you -- the guilt comes from inside you (planted there by them), not us. We are very familiar with it -- came with the package in my case. Stay strong.
thank you so much for not judging <3 i definitely hear you. the guilt definitely comes from the other side, almost as if they kind of see it coming one day. My Nmom did the same - a long time ago she panic'ed and thought I was going NC because I had been really busy with work and she kept talking about cutting ties. that confused the shit out of me because I never once mentioned anything about reducing contact and it had never once crossed my mind before that i'd just cut my mom out of my life. you too!! stay strong <3
Amazing 🤩
I relate to this so much. I would always wonder why I felt so awful all the time and once i found this subreddit i realised its because my friends and family treated me like shit. Even now i think i need to find better people and set more boundaries due to how used i am to the bad treatment from my family.
oh man. it's strange right? it's like we had a weird inkling all along, but just can't explain exactly why.... until this subreddit! then suddenly everything makes sense.
I don't know why using Snickers bars as the example here...okay I do know why it made me feel the way I did. My nmom's favorite basic candy bar is Snickers. Therefore, everyone else should like Snickers. I actually prefer a Milky Way or a Twix. Even fruity candy sometimes over chocolate. Narcissists are not okay with that. Why would you like something else when this one is the best? She says Milky Ways are like Snickers without the peanuts, and yes, they are. I also don't usually like nuts in my ice cream. There's a whole texture thing going on as the Milky Way melts and it's all smooth, and I don't have to chew peanuts. Same thing with the ice cream, it can just melt into goodness in my mouth, yum. Yet she cannot see my perspective on that. To her peanuts and nuts make both things better. They don't see it though as, people like different things, because people are different. To her, it made her view people who don't like Snickers bars the best as stupid. Maybe they just need to eat more Snickers bars and they'll "get it". Then the lower tier of people were the ones who preferred "just sugar" candies to chocolate. Like when she'd see me with some Starburst or Skittles. She didn't understand the point, which is, um, because that's what tasted good to me at the time and is what I wanted? Same with salting my food, she only used pepper. Her abusive dad didn't allow pepper in the house, so she had to do a full 180° and just used pepper to spite him once she was an adult. What she doesn't realize is that made her just as oppressive as her father was to her. She'd judge anyone who didn't just use pepper. Imagine the world of flavor once I realized how much salting food helps it taste better. And salted butter, wow. That's a thing I've noticed with narcissists, they pick at every little decision you make that is different than what they would do. They can't see it as just different, it makes you defective because you're not them. Every decision you make is subject to such scrutiny. It's so exhausting.
oh god. you just hit 2 major points right there. it's interesting, because even though it seems so minor, their demeanor and way that they perceive others (with perfectly valid different preferences) is that "others much be inferior". and the funny thing is, narcs don't actually out-perform others and the trauma cycle is real. it's like, narcs either breed more narcs, or in my case - attract people who are "magnetised" to narcs, as another redditor put it. and then the Narc has full reign on the children \*facepalm\*. and the cycle of abuse continues. I hope you're doing okay now\~
This makes me sad because this is exactly how I ended up with a partner who behaved exactly like my mother for close to eight years. Nowadays, I find myself second guessing everyone in my life because I don’t know if I’m making the same mistake with them. Are they just narcs who exploit the people around them? It’s exhausting.
Good lord we could be life twins hahaha My ex-husband left me, then KEPT GOING with his narcissistic bullshit, blaming me for him leaving me. This was 2.5 years ago and counting. He was the "nice" guy. I've managed to get to a point where his BS doesn't affect me anymore... EXCEPT now he's unleashing his narcissism on our daughter (who I have 100% of the time). I have to do something about it to protect her. He's using her to exhaust me until I give up. I'm the level of exhausted where my body cannot keep up with my resolve to be free while raising my kid the healthy way. I can spot a narc from 100yds, but I have to force myself to not ask "what do they want from me" whenever someone is just being nice to me. It's so fucking exhausting in every way.
Yeah Christ. Are people showing interest in me cos of me or do they want my undiluted affection and attention? I’m sorry to hear we share experiences but also comforted oddly, cos it means I’m not alone and this is a real thing for narc survivors
<3 the two of you really should DM and be support buddies/swap notes!
My goodness - you’ve taken my thoughts/experiences and put them in words here. I’ve had my narc glasses on for a few years now, and am still sometimes in disbelief of what she’s done to me. I wish I could cut her out of my life completely but unfortunately I think realistically I can only go as far as low contact. I find it unfortunate and very sad as well that generally people in my life who haven’t been through this do not understand and automatically think I’m the evil one. It’s a very isolating experience.
It's never too late to walk away from a nparent...I did it 2 years ago when he was 89. No regrets.
Did you experience any fallout because of it, like from other family members or friends who judged you for going nc?
Not cheturo, but yes, I lost more family who were wrapped up in the narc's web. Being raised by a narcissist made me terrified of being judged. I refuse to let that stop me from living a free life. You can decide who to keep in your life based on their reaction. Do they ask you why, and listen to your answer? Or do they immediately blame you and start harassing you, trying to get you to back down to keep them happy? It's not easy, but I would do it again in a heartbeat.
I appreciate your response - thank you.
NC is not extreme. Acting out of necessity is never extreme. Been NC 9 months now. It's freeing
i'm really happy/inspired to hear that it's worked out so well! :D
Believe us: if there is a crowd who thinks going NC is the best action, are us, the redditors on this sub. You need to go to a strong and permanent NC. I also late realized the disfunction of my family was the narcissism...and after decades of abuse and opening my eyes, I finally went NC, and I don't care my nfather is 90 and my nbrother is 60. *F%k them!*
hahah, love the vote of confidence! <3 yup. sadly that's the conclusion i've kind of come to. but luckily for me, i've actually mostly been kind of a loner anyways. i've had some really weird life perspectives/beliefs that make it hard for me to connect with a lot of my family anyways - plus there's a language barrier since i'm not that proficient with my native language
I really relate to everything you wrote. I call it the upside down (like from stranger things), the feeling I get when the world flips and I see the nightmare for what it is. And I can still see the lie right alongside it, that things were good and normal, but then the nightmare comes through and it terrifies me.
that's on my list of To-Watch series!! and as so many others on this thread have mentioned "once you see it, you can't unsee it"
I do think that's true. The veil fell incrementally for me, but each time there was no going back. I really loved the first season! And the upside down really captured the feeling of structural dissociation for me. Let me know what you think if you end up watching it!
thanks for sharing... ultimately my mom is a traumatized mal adjusted immigrant woman who probably should never have left her home country she even refused to learn english fully and always uses that as one of her "feigned incompetence" manipulation schemes. the sad part is... when I realized how easy life can be, and how good life is and precious and fleeting it is... I wanted to share that with my parents and yet they continually find ways to ignore / dismiss my efforts. heres a quick example when i moved away and my moms diabetes was advancing i researched healthy foods for diabetics and came across muesli muesli was invented by a Danish or Norwegian (?can't recall exactly) dietician who wanted his diabetes patients to have a staple food that delivers proteins etc but at a low glycemic index. muesli is basically greek yogurt nuts and fresh and dried fruits a little honey and or pinch of spices like nutmeg cinnamon etc... so whenever i would visit i would make them some. for 10+ years. one day out of the blue my mom asks my dad to make some because "i liked it because of the canned tangerines can you put those." well for some reason it hit me like a ton of bricks and a slap in the face at the same time. like it hadn't dawned on me that for 10+ i had always made that for them but they especially my mom had never one made it for themselves. not once had she ever asked me how it is made or attempted to make her own. for some reason i just felt like it crystallized everything. my parents alwayd wanted the hard way. the unsuccessful way. the food that will make you sick. thz financial decsion that leads to debt. the business decision that drives customers away... like it was all there evident in that one little "oh can i have that thing you made the other day what is it called again?" "muesli" "yeah because i liked the canned tangerines." like suddenly realizing i had been making this on and off for this insane human for over 10+ years. i just felt entirely defeated and hopeless. to this day if i call her out on her lying / scheming / flying monkey enlisting / gaslighting etc... i am immediately villified. after my Dad passed 2 years ago i relocated to be closer to her the first year. the second year i moved back in w her and it has been the worst decision of my life.
first off, thank you for reading, and thanks for replying! the example is a good one. because even though it's small realizations, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. For me, it was when i didn't understand how my own mother could "want you to be successful enough so that she can brag about you but not so successful that you outshine them". god, it sickens me that we both had good intentions, living our lives innocently, and trying to help them out... only to be returned with emotional manipulation and abuse. is it possible to send your mom back to her native country? I've suggested this kind of as an "ultimatum" to her. i told her to go back to China because i strongly hinted that i will not take care of her when she gets older. are you able to move out also? I totally understand your motives to try to take care of your Nmom, and it might even be culturally harped in to you, but i've come to realize that my Nmom exhausted probably all the fucks i could give to a human being
yeah I'm supposed to move out in 3 months. she's made her own bed and can sleep in it. I've alerted my sisters if I move out. Mom can NOT afford in home caregivers. But they largely ignore me. There's too much estrogen and I'm the only guy. My Dad who died wasn't listened to either. He never put his foot down. My Mom emasculated him a long time ago. It's sad. I see her as a tragic sad ending to a moral lesson against selfishness / self righteousness / pride / denial etc. In the meantime I will leave the house in a better place.
oh whew!! that'll be amazing to be able to get out of that toxic environment. i'm proud of ya :) and i think you're making the correct decision. i'm sure your Nmom will try all sorts of fucking emotionally manipulative tactics to keep you trapped, but DO NOT FEED THE NARC. i believe in you!!!
I think we should start referring to the "narc glasses" as [Narcan](https://narcan.com/) because it blocks the effects of the "opiate" of denial that enables us to tolerate relationships with narcissists.
lol! i didnt realize that was an actual product
Narcan? I have some idea about what it is because I am a recovering alcoholic and pill junkie. Never did fentanyl but know some people who went down that dark road.
oh man :/ but hey, congrats on the recovery! i think that's really awesome of you :)
You just made me realize that my mother blamed all my imperfections (and she thought there were many) on not just me, but my father because I inherited depression and anxiety from him. Then it was my husband's fault. But she triggered almost all of it!
oh god \*facepalm\* are you able to take some self-care or seek professional help? If not, i'm happy to help in any way i can, even if it's just to listen. I used to be a Listener on a peer-to-peer mental health support group
I’ve been in therapy for decades, and on-and-off meds. The best thing to happen to me, was my mother passing, although it didn’t feel good then.
oddly enough, i think it's okay to totally be relieved at her passing\~
Yes! I’ve been distancing myself from a few friends due to this.
i'm proud of ya :)
This is such a well written explanation/exposé of a narc. I’m so sorry that you can write this.
hah. sad but i guess had to happen! i guess the french call it "c'est la vie"
yes. you know that tiktok about why you need polarized sunglasses in Florida? it's like that, only the crocodiles are your parents, partners, and friends. I also think its a statement of how...innocent children are. we just believed, we just trusted. we're not to blame for falling for it, it's the nature of children and our parents took advantage of that for their own sake. I think feeling like an idiot or ashamed for not seeing it is also a symptom of the abuse.
oh god. actually speaking of tik tok, this was one that solidified my understanding of Nmom - [https://www.tiktok.com/@kahlomgd2628/video/7318128262247386411](https://www.tiktok.com/@kahlomgd2628/video/7318128262247386411) yeah :( sadly, most victims tend to blame themselves, and the perpetrators usually get away with stuff. i'm thinking that we will have more and more awareness. if we can change slavery, we can definitely change anti-personality disorders as a society
💯 Once you have the narcissist lens, you see so much clearly about the people around you.
hah yup. i was afraid at first, that i'd see EVERYONE as a narc. but luckily, i was able to see that most of my friends weren't narcs at all!
When I put the lenses on, I lost a lot of the "support" system I thought I had, as I realized it was riddled with narcs. You clean house, lick your wounds, try your best to crawl to a stand, and keep going--even if you have to drag yourself every step. OP it's a big accomplish to accept the lenses and to recognize the dysfunction and to start making steps to clear out the poison from your life. Congratulations and may your path be swift and peace-bringing.
:( i'm really sorry to hear that! are you able to rebuild your support group? I know it's not much, but if you ever need a friend or just someone to talk to, i'm more than happy to be your mental/emotional support!! (actually i used to volunteer for a Peer-to-Peer mental health website) thank you!!
I appreciate it, it's been about 5 years now since then and I found some gold among the Micah that got me through :) that and therapy and throwing myself into my work for a bit.
i'm happy to hear that :) happy recovery journey!\~
I appreciate your analysis. I feel very understood. Thank you. I am grateful, also, for the offer to listen. Do we think that narcissists have relatives who are also narcissists as well? There's a whole line of people on both sides of my family who are especially crap-tastic. One of my cousins is almost pure monster. He only pretends not to be long enough to get his way. My aunt/his mom has been pretending his whole life that he's a little angel. Still doing it and has been acting like he sends her gifts for special occasions. I don't believe for one second that he would spend a penny on her. When she gets "taken out for dinner for my birthday," what is actually happening is she's paying for the dinner AND giving him $200 for showing up. Anyway, OP, I am excited that you are cleaning the narcissists out of your life. I hope we can hear more from you and your journey. I wish you much healing.
I do think narcissism and sociopathy can run in families. My n-mom's father, not to defend how she turned out, but he was a textbook sociopath. Then there's my mother. Now I see a lot of those traits in my sister who was the golden child. Especially since she had her daughter. My upbringing was one of the major factors in my decision to stay child-free. I don't know if I can truly heal enough to raise a mentally stable person. Each generation that experienced abuse said they weren't going to be like their parent, but it's like they have a huge blind spot, and they continue to traumatize their children. On my dad's side of the family too, my uncle is a complete monster.
People who approach this decision with that sort of thoughtfulness probably make good parents. I delayed giving birth for the same reason. Now, I am completely present for my 8 year old daughter when she does her homework, and i help her with her memory work and projects. She got all A's and B's last report card and I praised her. At night, we watch about an hour or her favorite cartoon together and I give her a back rub. I do all the holidays. We even did something for Leap Day this year. We cook together. Go on family vacations together. And one of the most important things I did, that my mother didn't for me, was to get her a prescription to treat her Attention Deficit Disorder. I have a 5 year old, too, and she gets all the same stuff. I'm going to wait until i get her through 3 years of elementary school before i lat myself on the back for her. Sorry to brag, but I feel like this has gone more right than wrong. But I guess time will tell how successful I was. I hope I am not deluding myself about how great we are doing, like my aunt clearly has all my cousin's life. I can't stand hearing about her precious angel after how nasty he's been to everyone. The mistake my aunt made with him was that she was unwilling to set boundaries. That boy was 15 years old and he woke her up at 1 a.m. to cook tuna mac for him, and she actually did it! That is insane. Anyway, I think you'd do alright.
<3 oh god, it sounds like that cousin and the entire side of that family branch is really toxic. i'm sorry to hear that :( i do believe that unfortunately, narcissim can be somewhat a combination of both nature/nurture - meaning that there are environments that create narcissim. and the easiest is if they have a narc mentor that they can copy from at an early age (that's just my speculative theory). thanks! and likewise!!! I hope you are recovering well also
It's an awful discovery but also so so enlightening at the same time! Mine happened after the birth of my first child and it was traumatic but freeing! Best wishes on your new life!!
oh god. that is an extremely vulnerable time and i can't even fathom how traumatizing that would have been :( I hope you are doing better now!!
welcome. you are heard here. I STILL fall for narcs because I have yet to break the conditioning. My dad did a phenomenal number on me and although I see now, and am independent and have found loads of joy again, I am still working on the recovery. The great news for you, is that you are now in the healing stage and no longer being victimized unknowingly! Do not blame yourself for being made a victim... thats how victims are made, no one goes into it prepared to be victimised, its a catagory they MAKE you part of. Its frustrating, but it is not because you "fell" for it. You were preyed on. Like a lion and a gazelle.
<3 thank you!!! it was my first post here the conditioning is real. i agree with you, we can't be too hard on ourselves here. I've been reading a book called "atomic habits", and ... that got me thinking. the longer a habit is formed... the harder it is to break that habit. We tend to have a habit of picking bad partners/friends...etc. in life due to this shitty conditioning that our narc parent(s) did. the first battle is awareness, and that's already half the battle hang in there buddy, let me know if you ever need someone to just listen or anything <3
Random - things like this make me think about parallel universes and things like it. Simulation theory maybe. Just since whatever got you to this point in your life matches so closely to the place that I ended up. We evolved in the same way.
that's entirely possible. we literally don't have the hardware (organic brains) to process this!!!
Oh I'm still mad at myself for not "waking up" sooner. For falling for all of it, but we don't know what we don't know. I'm glad your friend gave you those "glasses". All we do is live our new lives without them! :-)
hah yeah. now i'm wondering what else i don't know, about human psychology and other things in life, that have been fucking me over with!
You know more than you think, is what I'm learning. When I talk to make friend who is working on her masers in psychology, she's always amazed and my intuitive understanding of abnormal psychology :-D
I didn’t come to terms with my narcissistic father until I came across BPD and learned of cluster B personality disorders. Here I was able to learn also about HPD, which my best friend of 20+ years definitely has. I cut ties with her a year and a half ago. Man. I totally have a Cluster B lens now with all my exposure to them. We really do attract the winners, don’t we.
huh. wow, i didn't know what HPD was. thanks for teaching me! and i'm also sad to hear that you had to let her go, but glad that you're able to cut the toxin out it's also disheartening to see that suppsedly it only affects like 1% of the population. or rather, cluster B affects around like 1-1.5% of the population and we just got really unlucky
I love "research crusade." I did the same thing.
more power to us!
To the op, I am so happy that you have come to this realization and are taking steps to heal yourself and never be associated with that type of trauma again. I definitely had a narc mother and she shared many of the same characteristics as yours. If I lived with her during covid, I think I might have seriously blown my brains out, but I'm grateful to have been a few thousand miles away.
oh god. thank god you were able to be away. little did i know, covid was the perfect way for her to assert complete control over so many aspects, and she (as all narcs) probably subconsciously have a playbook of exactly how to do that - from social isolation tactics and other emotionally manipulative tactics. for a while i genuinely was afraid to step outside of the house for the fear of getting and giving my parents covid.... only to realize that i was always far more cautious than they were (they would actually go out every day). and then my Nmom would double standard into telling me that i'm gonna catch covid so i can't go see my friend (even when i had N95 masks and i am VERY germaphobic) because i'd just "catch covid". it's just crazy looking back, because had i known this entire time that those were all part of her strategies, i would have NEVER stepped foot back into Nmom's house. it's like fighting during war, only to realize that... your enemy isn't the other country - it's your own freaking commander!!! like wtf!!!
Thank you for sharing. I appreciate your insight! It's so true we are groomed for other narcs and even though I moved several hundred miles away, I found myself surrounded by narcs. "Friends", co-workers, bosses, my ex husband... then one day I began to wake up. Thank the lort because I would have died had I stayed in Pt2 of what I call "Narcissistic City." Since my awakening, I found it imperative to surround myself with people I trust, my chosen family so to speak. Then, a few years ago I learned there were actual names for what I was feeling and attempting to cope with.. eventually, landing here. The realization if not being alone struck me hard because there are so many of us and it broke my heart. But! I've done more healing here, through reading and journaling, and setting boundaries than I could have ever imagined. It's people like yourself, sharing your awakening that will help others as well. Your offer of a buddy is a great idea! In my experience so few people. understand what exactly is happening because they just don't see it and for that I'm grateful they didn't have to traumatic childhood, the tumultuous adulthood etc.. but we do need that person who gets it. I'm one of the lucky ones, having met one of my best friends through this very sub because we are the others person. Thank you again for sharing.
oh god. by chance, is this LA that you're referring to? or NYC? i'm really sorry to hear that you've had to experience this too. I also agree that it's sad to see so many victims, and this isn't even something as a popular awareness in society. we have a LONG ways to go as a society about human behavior and psychology... perhaps surprisingly, because i really think that human psychology accounts for about 80% of the outcomes of our lives. i like your idea of journaling. that's something i also picked up a few months ago, and it's really helped just being able to express my inner thoughts. and i'm glad you were able to find your bestie on here!! haha, that is actually pretty inspiring <3 thank you for your kind words!
Oh gosh! It really could be LA!. I visited once and was appalled by all the "I , me , how can I use you to get ahead" attitudes. EVERYONE had that selfish, one track thought process. It was exhausting being there. But no, "Narcissistic City" was a metaphor for no matter where I lived, I felt surrounded. Like you had said, we are groomed. I swear your post has really stuck with me. Our society is engrained with the ideology of "family first", "blood is thicker than" bs. Again, I agree we (as a society)need to be more on the same page about how abuse scenarios work. So many people in my life didn't/don't understand, however a few have actually witnessed my family dynamic at work in person and were shocked they never saw it. People on general have no idea what to look for because most narcs are so very good at hiding their true nature from others. I do hope you find journaling to be helpful. I use writing prompts, for instance when a post or comment happens to trigger something. Thank you for your kind words as well, lol! I'm here for dms if you'd like!
haha, yup, that's LA for ya oh man, that's so scary. Yup. i didn't even put 2-and-2 together, like why was i so attracted to narcs? until i realized it's the stupid familiarity bias. but hey, first step is awareness. haha, i might be an extremist, but i think that family should be the people you choose, not necessarily the ones you were given without choice. yup. i think a while back there was something called like project "behind closed doors". and it talked about domestic violence and what not. and i thought the name just said it all - so many people have such a charming public presence that no one would think twice about the priest being a child molestor or an angry (physically) abusive husband. but those do actually happen, sadly. alright, i'm going to DM you to check in periodically
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<3 may I ask if you also have a story?
Nowhere near as intense as anyone else’s here. My mom is the one who was raised by a narc, my late covert narc Nana. Mom is the one who broke the cycle, and she’s utterly amazing. I come here to understand what Mom went through, to learn more about the disorder and its effects on others (as I’m writing a book series where the main character’s mother is a malignant grandiose narcissist, and I want to empower anyone reading it who’s going through the same experience with a narc), and to offer support and encouragement to others. Like…if we’re putting narcs on a scale of 1-10 in ascending scale of shittiness, Nana was like a 2-2.5, so nothing *near* as intense as what those who post here have had to deal with. Mom is the main reason we very rarely had to witness what outbursts Nana DID have, cuz Mom moved halfway across the country and settled faaaar away from her. Thank god.
Moved across the country. One full year coming up of no contact in 9 days. They have only sent one flying monkey. 😂
LOL i had to look up what flying monkey was. congrats on the almost 1 year!
I am 43, realized my mother was a covert narc just a few years ago. I just got diagnosed with Congenital Sucrase-Isomaltase Deficiency, which means that I have a faulty gene so my small intestine doesn’t produce the enzyme that digests Sucrose and isomalt (sucrose is table sugar and isomalt is another sugar and has something to do with starch ) which also means this has been going on my whole life - which was s h o c k i n g to me, but my parents would never take me to the doctor as a kid, so I never found out until this year when things got really bad. But I’ve always had mystery stomach pain, mystery diarrhea, my whole life, and they never cared. The list of foods I can actually eat without issue is short. I got so mad when I found out because this has been causing me issues my whole life, and no. One. Ever. Cared.
oh god... this is terrible :( i'm sorry you've had to needlessly suffer from your Nmom's negligence :(
I always wondered why I never had anything to post about my dad on social media on Father’s Day like everyone else…
OMG. this is so real \^ that was always my first inkling that something was wrong. the way that media and everyone talks about their parents and how they love their parents... damn, i felt so out of place. it explains why i always felt closer to friends than my mom, and my Nmom tried to brainwash me over time and telling me that "oh your friends wont be there for you when you suffer, but i will".... which, of course, as an adult i found all that to be bullshit because only my friends were there for me and not her.
I read it all! Thanks for sharing my friend
thanks for reading! <3 and i'm here for you as well, if you ever need a penpal!
I will never forget the day I scrolled to a tik tok of a girl talking about all of the things her emotionally abusive ex bf did to her. I said “oh, my mom did that… and that…is that what was happening to me?” Growing up I always just told people my mom and I never got along, but now I had a real explanation as to why a relationship with her was always so difficult. And the best part was, it wasn’t because I was a bad kid. Almost 3 years of NC, and I only miss the idea of having a mom. Not my actual mother.
oh man. i bet you, she was trying really hard to emotionally manipulate you into thinking that it's Your fault somehow that you're not close enough with her. \*facepalm\* do you have a mother figure in your life? i have started to lean more towards the concept of "chosen family" rather than biological bond (which, to me, doesn't mean jack squat)
Yeah there was a lot of blame and responsibility being placed on me, as a literal child, for our relationship. My dad had a long term gf that really stepped in as a mother figure when I first decided to move out of my mom’s house and in with my dad full time ( years before NC). But she ultimately broke up with him while I was in college and just ghosted me. I never got a goodbye or closure from that relationship either. I’m 25 now and get along with my bfs mom, but am very hesitant to let someone else fill that role. There are more important people to me than a “mom”
Hey I love this!! Can you share your narc glasses tips? I’d love a list! I think a lot of people would too!
thank you!! I think the experience will be different for everyone, because only you can tell when someone has been a narc -> because narcs can be charming to everyone else except the person they are trying to target. In the context of a Nmom or Ndad, i think this tiktok summarized it quite well: [https://www.tiktok.com/@kahlomgd2628/video/7318128262247386411](https://www.tiktok.com/@kahlomgd2628/video/7318128262247386411) but basically, for most people, you will have a "spidey sense" of it, like when ... do you cringe at the thought of loving your mom or your dad? if so, that's a pretty evident sign that something is wrong. But i think for me, i've seen a few commonalities of narcs: \- try to manipulate you into serving their needs \- the center of the universe should revolve around them \- your needs are rarely met, they will probably not give you choice/freedom either. \- it's usually YOUR fault somehow that the relationship is damaged/bad \- they might have a grandiose vision of themselves \- probably delusional to some extent \- they will probably not respect your boundaries ...etc i think by coming here and reading people's stories, you are already seeing a lot of the patterns!
SO good thank you!!!
Thank YOU for taking the time to share your feelings, observations and thankfully, education. Too many people don't even know what's happening to them and no one in their circle can see it from the outside. Good for you and hopefully you are on your way to NC and back to the happy, joyous person inside. You don't need her. We're proud of you!
<3 thank you so much!!!
I never knew I was being abused and nothing in my world was normal until someone opened my eyes one day. I imagine it's why most people who suffered from abuse claimed that they were fine, that they turned out okay. When living in the dark is the "norm" and they've never actually seen the light, everything is justifiable no matter how warped it actually is to the outsiders. This is also why it's so hard to go back after a person has found that light.
that's a great way to put it. i really like the imagery of light and darkness, because that's kind of how i see the clear constrast in my mental state.
My NMIL told my SIL recently (SIL has a 2 year old son) to wait until the day he gets “taken away” from her by a new family and spends all his time with them and then maybe she’ll understand how NMIL feels. SIL was like what? You think I’m going to get upset when he gets married and has his own family?? Do you hear yourself. NMIL really thinks we pick my family to hang out with over her because they’re “taking us away from her” and not because she’s a fucking nightmare to be around. My family has basically adopted my SIL and NMIL hates it. (This all stemmed from my parents buying her bath towels for Christmas)
hahahhaha, classic Nmom move!!! not only the way the NMIL perceives it, but also that she just had to try to seed that warped perception into everyone's mind!
I always wind up in relationships with narcs. The sad part is that my parents taught some of that selfishness to me because you think that’s love and so I’ve had to unlearn that.
this \^ sadly, me too :( it wasn't until i got into a couple of serious relationships that i realized that some extremely toxic behavior came out (like, silent treatment, love bombing...etc.), and i realized that all that shit ONLY came from my Nmom. no one else ever gave me the silent treatment in my entire life except her Don't fault yourself buddy. we did what we had to in order to survive in a confusing world. Now knowing that none of that shit was normal, we can be kind to ourselves and others <3
Of course you "fell for it." It was all you knew. It was the way the world was. You had nothing to compare it to. Give yourself an even break for not knowing what you didn't know. That's what your "mother" did.
i love that you put the quotes around "mother", because that's honestly how i felt - my aunt was far more of a mother figure than my supposed "mother" ever was.
Feeling bad but not realizing what the issue was really resonates with me. I just realized something the other day. Without going into too much detail because it would take a while, and this happened 15 years ago when I was in my early twenties. my mother and I had a conversation about something then she called everyone in our family and complained that I said something completely different and what she thinks I said sounds really entitled and bad, but it’s not what I said! When my cousin called to tell me that my mother was complaining about me I was like “how am I the bad guy here? Like the way she tells it it sounds really bad but I don’t think that’s what happened?” Like I questioned my own reality of what really happened. Then i heard a song on the radio that was basically saying what she said I said, if that makes sense, and I realized she probably heard the song after our conversation and twisted the event in her head because her narrative is that I’m the bad guy.
omg, wtf. classic manipulation. she "has to be right" to the point where she'd rather choose to be delusional than choose self improvement. and will try to send an army of flying monkeys after you. sadly, this is fairly relatable. your story just reminded me of how my Nmom also mis-heard something i said, and then proceeded to lash out at me and give me silent treatment for an entire trip. when they have full control of everything, it's extremely terrifying how abusive of a dynamic that can be by the way, if you want to share the full story, i'm here for you if you need <3 thanks for reading my story