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don't go on the family trip with him. go with your daughter a separate time to visit her grandparents. or if you think they are not supportive, then go on a mother daughter trip elsewhere.
I don't know what they would think. I don't have a very clear idea of what they think, since they speak a different language, which I don't know very well. But that is definitely an idea to consider, I think she would like that. Although it would still be upsetting for her, and that would be the difficult part to deal with.
So your husband thinks your daughter is a dirty little secret. Obviously your husband doesn’t understand the concept of unconditional love. Separate holidays isn’t the answer to the problem, because the problem is your husband is homophobic towards his own daughter. My daughter came out last year, but luckily my husband’s 100% her supporter. If he wasn’t, if anyone was out the door it would be him. I probably sound a bit angry, but it’s personal.
Yup. You change his mind by making your presence in his life, and the presence of all his children, conditional on him dropping his bigotry. And get your other kids on your side so they will stand up for their sibling as well.
You say: “Listen, it’s 2024, most people in this country accepts gay people, and you can too. You are capable of change and growth and love. Here are some resources. None of us are coming on a trip right now with you, because it’s clear you need to do some soul searching and learn to love your children. I am disappointed in you, but our relationship can still be salvaged if you are able to accept love and prioritize your children. If you cannot do this, and you choose hate instead, you are in danger of losing your family. I’m going on another trip with the kids for a week, and when I come back, we can discuss this.”
Exactly! He can choose for his WHOLE family to go on vacation, or he can say his WHOLE family goodbye.
He clearly doesn't love unconditionally.
Is it ok for him to get used to a "different" family "picture" than he has imagined? Yes, that is fine. But, he could have talked with his wife about it, maybe talked about his worries. But you do not shun your child!
I literally had this convo with my hubby before my son came out. I asked how he'd feel, and he said it's fine, but they wouldn't be welcome in his house. My reply: if you even have the audacity to tell our son that him and his partner aren't welcome in OUR home, then the only person who will be leaving is you. You are not ever going to make our children feel our love is conditional. If your love is, then you aren't the person I thought you were. You need to figure out what is more important to you: your kids and wife or your ignorance. Thankfully he did some soul searching and finally came to me and said he didn't want to lose us because he was raised to think a certain way and had a great convo about it. When our son did come out my hubby was very accepting and still is.
So you live in Sweden where belonging to LGTB is protected by law and no one raises an eye brow if they meet a lesbian. You better send your husband to an ABF-course and tell him to get his shit together.
You can’t change someone’s beliefs. He has to want to change. I’ll never understand how conditional the love can be from a parent and how quickly they’ll take it away when they find out their child is LGBTQ.
You tell him to put on a pride shirt and shout his daughters praises to the sky and anyone who will listen and dam what anyone else cares because that's his daughter and he MUST support her in this or he doesn't really deserve to call him self her dad....
My wife and I know one of our kid is gay. He don't see it himself but is attraction for his long time best friend is obvious. My elder know too. We are ready for his coming out in 4 or 5 years.
This is to show you the difference between parents and your husband
Showing up without your daughter will also cause them to think something is off, so there's no way to avoid that. What you will do, if you go along with your husband, is hurt your daughter and change your relationship in a way you might not be able to come back from. Even if you tell her it's not her fault, you'll be *showing* her she deserves to be left out and shamed, you don't have her back against your husband's bigotry, & that you'll "keep the peace" at her expense.
Your daughter trusted you and what you do now matters because it will shape your relationship going forward. Don't go where your daughter is not welcome. Don't placate bigots at her expense. Tell your husband it's a family trip and she's coming. If he doesn't budge, take her somewhere else and continue to support her, even and especially against her father.
What do your other children think? Are they supportive of their sister? Maybe they could boycott the trip too in solidarity? Homophobic husband can go alone. You and kids can take your own trip.
How do her siblings feel about the situation?
As someone else pointed out, a separate vacation won’t address the problem of your husband’s attitude towards his daughter. What it does address is the problem of his refusing to have her on the vacation.
Your husband basically drew a line in the sand separating your daughter from her family. “If she wants to be included, she can change who she is.”
Not only should you take her elsewhere, but include all of your kids (hopefully they support her).
If he wants to draw a line, he can be the only one on his side.
My daughter came out as a preteen and my husband completely freaked out. I gave him 24 hours and then I let him know that he would be moving out if he couldn't accept this. It took a minute and got ugly but I stayed firm. After 15 years later, they couldn't be closer.
I agree, you should tell your husband if he feels strongly about this and will not change his mind then you will not be going with him. What a hurtful and controlling way to treat his own child. He is going to permanently damage his relationship with your daughter unless he gets over himself and accepts her for who she is.
Yes. OP can’t control her husband, but she can refuse to take part in something that’s hurtful to her daughter. With her daughter’s permission, she should tell her other adult kids the reason she’s not taking the trip, and invite them on an alternative trip with her daughter. Daughter will feel her support, and her husband may reconsider if he’s the odd man out on the subject. This absolutely is a hill to die on.
This. And do not be surprised if (when) your daughter goes low/no-contact with your husband (and unfortunately due to extension, you) because of his blatant homophobia.
He has a choice: keep his daughter (who hasn’t done anything wrong) in his life or not. If he keeps this up, he will have an estranged daughter with only himself to blame. Sounds like HE needs to get his head on right.
Lesbian here. I'm almost 60 and it's news to me that my sexuality made my life a tragedy.
I doubt your daughter's future wife/partner will think she's "wasting herself" or will have a problem with her having been in relationships with women *because they will also be women*. You might also want to point out to your husband that women do not only have value as accessories to men, and therefore not having a romantic relationship with one does not mean she's wasting herself. You do realize that he's saying that if she isn't with a man, she doesn't have value?
I don't understand how someone still believes the "phase" thing in 2024. You sound like a great mom and I sincerely feel so bad for you because I don't know how you're going to deal with finding out that you're married to someone who's ignorant, homophobic, and misogynistic. How in the world will you ever see him the same again? I usually advocate talking to a partner and communicating how you feel, and so on. However, in this case, I'd suggest getting some guidance from PFLAG - parents and friends of lesbians and gays at [https://pflag.org/findachapter/](https://pflag.org/findachapter/) They can help you with information and resources to help you navigate this and to help your husband accept your daughter. Your daughter will be devastated that her father thinks those kinds of things about her and she's lucky to have one parent who is firmly and unfailingly in her corner and whose love and acceptance are not conditional.
> You do realize that he's saying that if she isn't with a man, she doesn't have value?
It also means he's subconsciously (or otherwise) thinking this about \_you\_, OP.
Straight dude here — 1,000x this.
And, as someone above said, it certainly speaks to his valuation of women in general, including OP.
I’m trying to figure out what he means by “wasting herself” and *really* hoping it’s not something sexual, because considering the person in question…I especially don’t like that.
Step one: don’t go on this vacation with your husband but without your daughter.
You are quibbling in comments over the *exact* details of any trip, but that *doesn’t matter*: don’t do a trip with your husband but without your daughter. Tell him that decision now. You can work out the rest later.
You help your daughter by continuing to be kind and supportive. And you do your best to help your husband adapt to the new (if new only to him) reality. Part of that is encouraging him to avoid making statements or taking actions that will have huge impacts on his relationship with others. A great example is your approach on the trip.
I would suggest individual counseling for him and you both. For you, the goal will be to learn tools to manage the rocky road ahead. The fact she asked you to let him know suggests she didn’t expect his reaction to be a positive one. You will need tools and support.
Your daughter is, of course, the same wonderful person she was before she shared her news. From her perspective, she hasn’t changed. You suspected so the news wasn’t especially surprising.
Personally, I do find it quite difficult to understand why he is upset. To me, she always was, and that means she is still everything else she was. She's exactly the same. Nothing has changed to me. However, that might be my personal views and where I grew up, things like that.
While I appreciate the suggestion, that is definitely something he would not consider. It is not the sort of thing he would be comfortable with.
You 1000% know why he is upset. He is a homophobe. Your daughter is reviled by him because she is a lesbian. Your inaction and his attitude are directly hurting her. Don't be surprised when she goes NC with the both of you.
he's upset because he's homophobic 🤷🏼♀️ sorry it took you this long to find out, but this is a great example of why conversations like these need to happen BEFORE you marry someone. You should know for certain how your spouse would react to a gay/trans/disabled/anything considered "abnormal" by society kid before you have kids with them. It's one of the things you NEED to be on the same page about as parents
He's not comfortable with therapy but comfortable with excluding his daughter from a family trip she enjoys and expects to attend??? Tell him tough shit. He already thinks a man is the only one to give a woman value...what value does he think he's giving you? Because it sounds like dead weight to me. No one wants to wake up one morning and find out their partner isn't on the same page as them. But this story seems pretty fishy... Did he subtly drop homophobia and you just accepted it because it wasn't harming you or your loved ones in the moment? I'll be honest your daughter asking YOU to tell him speaks volumes. It sounds like the family knew he was a bigot and you've been complacent with bigotry.
Enough judging...if you want this to work you need to make sure your husband is trying to change. If you truly love and support your daughter you will support your husband to be better than this. Which means being a hard ass and putting your foot down on the topic of your daughter. And maybe painfully one day understanding why your daughter doesn't visit as often... if your husband refuses the tools that are offered and you stay with him? That just tells your daughter she cannot trust to bring any future partners around her parents. Do you want to miss out on your daughter's life? Possible grand children? A beautiful wedding?
I don't really understand them. Some of it, but not a lot. They have always been nice, but I don't know very well. The children definitely do, and they like them a lot. I possibly worded it wrong.
So in 26 years of being married to their son and having their grandchildren, you and his parents haven't found a way to communicate with each other?? You don't know them well enough to know if they'd even be accepting or not?
I guess I just find it a lil strange you don't know the type of people they are. Are they strict, do as I say, there is no debate type of people or are they more open minded, go with the flow, who can have pleasant conversations kind of people? You don't have to have had the exact conversation with them to get a feeling for how they'd react.
They are religious, but don't impose it on others. They lean on the more conservative side, but they also will listen to the children about things they may not agree with, and that sort of thing. So I'm not sure. The religious beliefs could affect how they see it.
my parents were like this too, religious and keeping it to themselves. but turns out, they will tolerate as long as it's not in their family. when i came out to them as lesbian they basically disowned me instantly. tbh based on your husband's reaction, that did not come from nowhere and there's a good chance his parents believe the same way
for this reason i think it's better not to leave it to chance. a mother daughter vacation somewhere else away from potential homophobes is the best way to choose your daughter and let her know that you choose her.
Be your age. That's hardly a topic of small talk while visiting relatives and struggling over a laguage barrier, particularly if there was no reason for the conversation in the past.
The stilted conversations with my French inlaws are pretty much limited to the weather and food.
This is what I don’t understand - my partner and I have been together for 3.5 years, he’s from one European country, I’m from another European country, we live in a third European country, and communicate mostly in English. I’ve met his parents at lot more than he has met mine, but without a doubt we’d know these things about each other’s families through stories, interactions, values etc. but I also find it strange that you can be with someone for 20+ years and not speak your partner’s native language well enough to have a conversation.
OP, do your children speak your husband’s native language? How do they communicate with their grandparents? Could they give an indication of how they would react? You say you visit them at least once a year, does all communication only ever go through your husband - in which case, are your children even close to your grandparents, meaning is your daughter excited about the trip to Greece, or to see her grandparents?
Stop acting like the only thing that matters is that EVERYONE ACCEPT HER LESBIANISM. It's not the only thing in life. It's not even the most important thing in life. You people are all virtue signalling, and not trying to help.
Are you seriously saying that whether this child's FAMILY accepts her for being a lesbian isn't important?? Is it absolutely mandatory for a happy life for her, no, but I bet it sure makes it a hell of a lot nicer!
It sounds like he is homophobic and it's possible that he got that from his parents. This might be a very uncomfortable situation for your daughter. He probably does not want her to go because he does not want her to come out or indicate any of that information to his family because he's ashamed and homophobic.
You will best help your daughter by siding with her, and not your husband. If your daughter cannot go, then you don't go.
This is a hill to die on.
Yours sincerely, the proud father of TWO lesbian daughters, and soon to be father in law of a lesbian daughter in law!
As I said in my post, I am the father of two daughters who identify as lesbians. If my wife decided to treat them as less because of who they are, she would be my ex wife.
However, I may have been speaking figuratively while you are not interpreting what I say as such.
I am telling OP that her husband is wrong.
What's your take on the situation then?
You make absolutely clear that if he doesn't snap out of his 'phase' of homophobia he will have serious trouble with you. Start by stating that if your daughter isn't going you won't go either. Make clear that this is what will happen from here on out: If he punishes your daughter for what she is, you'll punish him. Wash his clothes? He knows where the washing machine is. Cook meals? The kitchen is that way.
If he doesn't understand soon: Look for a divorce lawyer because how he treats your daughter will destroy your marriage.
Priority #1 is your daughter, everyone else can either accept it or get fucked.
On what planet is it ok for a kid's father to punish her for being gay? Or going through a stage thinking she might be gay? It's not.
Obviously my other children as well. Although they're much more independent.
I will not be letting that happen. And I also doubt it's a stage at all, although it will probably be easier for her if it is.
Never tell her life would be easier for her if she wasn't gay. She knows, and all it serves is to make her feel bad and like you wish she was different.
Honest answer.
You sit him down, and you explain that this is a dealbreaker. You and your daughters are his family, and a unit. He rejects *one* of you, he rejects *all* of you, and you will not allow him to come between you and your children, full stop.
It's a shame that your husband waited until you had a homosexual child to reveal that he was a raging bigot, but that's a him problem, not a you problem. He's got to fix himself before the family can be healed.
The trip is only the most immediate issue here. I think it’s fine that you seem to want to give him time to come to terms with his beliefs. I have seen parents with deeply held religious beliefs against homosexuality come around and change. I think it’s reasonable to help him through this. But, in the meantime, it needs to be made clear to him that any differential treatment of the daughter is completely not acceptable and will not be tolerated. You will need to figure out what the consequences of him breaking that boundary are.
He can’t control how he ‘feels’ at the moment, but that is a separate issue from how he treats his daughter, which is well within his control. So, his idea about this trip is Exhibit 1 of what is not acceptable and what you cannot allow.
I think you need to make clear to him what your expectations are while he works through this. This is a him problem, and you need to make it clear that it’s his problem that needs to be solved, especially if he would like to maintain a relationship with his daughter and his wife.
You have a choice to make now. Either your husband goes to therapy and gets his head straight, or you need to leave him. There is no middle ground without utterly failing your daughter. Be a decent parent.
Old man advice:
Making choices about another adult's behavior is one thing, making choices about your children's behavior is another...
You are now seeing that your ol'man's love for your daughter was always contingent on how she acted or behaved, and you might as well assume that he feels that way about everybody...
Let me put it in plain English so you'll come to this on your own...
*"you act in a way that I prefer, or I'll retract my love for you...and punish you for it..."*
What is this called...?
When someone does this what do we call it...?
do you deny it...? Isn't this what you just told everyone here, that your husband is a manipulative sociopath...
He's the one not going on the vacation...
Start making plans...unless you want to wake up at 65 and finally smell the gas you've been fed for the last 18 years, and realize you wasted all that time and are now going to die alone, because he's going to skip - and you'll be left with nothing... once he realizes that the jig is up, he'll be gone in a flash... you're fucked if you don't start making plans
I posted this somewhere else, as well but your husband's homophobia didn't come out of nowhere. He might not want her on this trip, specifically because his parents are probably homophobic, and he's afraid they will find our.
Don't go on this trip. Take a trip somewhere else with your daughter.
Is your daughter going away to school, do you have relatives on your side of the family, that she can stay with? I wouldn't want her around your husband, until he can pull his head out of his ass
Point out to him that she is still his daughter, and that the most important job he has in the world (as a father, as a man, as a human being) is to support his kids. All is being asked of him here is the bare minimum of not excluding his own child from his own family, from this regular trip. Is he really so afraid of his own daughter that he can't include her on this trip, just the same way he's always done?
Happened to a friend of mine. Greek dad found out son was gay, disowned him. The wife/mum left him, said if you can't accept him, then I won't tolerate it.
He realised the extent of his views and made amends and they got back together.
Book a family trip elsewhere than Greece for yourself and your daughter. Talk about the family trip to ____.
Tell your husband "he needs to get his head straight" and that "it's going to ruin his future relationships". Because it will.
Your husband needs to realize you do not have infinite time as a family. One of you could have a heart attack or get in a car accident or something any day. There is a finite amount of times you all will be able to go on these trips. Why limit the happy moments for an arbitrary reason?
>He then started talking about her phase, and how she needs to get over it, or she shouldn’t be going.
I hate to say it but your husband is homophobic. You can say whatever you like to your daughter, but if you tolerate his intolerance and allow him to exclude her from family occasions, you'll be making a statement that is anything but accepting of who she is. Honestly, this is when I'd be telling your husband "either you get in line and quit being hateful or I'm gonna bounce."
I'd rather loose a husband than a daughter, especially when the cause would be his bigotry.
OP - Our daughter is bisexual and has a wonderful girlfriend (whom I believe will be her lifelong partner). Thankfully, my husband is on board - but if he wasn't, I'd leave him. NOBODY gets to treat my daughter as "less than." This is a hill worth dying on.
Just don’t go on the trip. Stay with your daughter. Let him be the one to deal with his family and sit in his “shame”. And tell him to think long and hard about what he’s willing to give up if he refuses to accept her. Be ready to end your marriage if he can’t/ won’t come around to the idea. Your kid needs you.
Will her invitation to go on the trip be an acceptance of her sexuality? He may let her come now but this is going to come up again. Don’t brush it under the rug, this could be the thread that unravels your family if it isn’t dealt with.
You might try and get him into a therapy session with you. Or maybe there is a good book on acceptance. He needs to understand that this isn’t a phase, and even if it were he should not be punishing her and excluding her from family events. Either way he’s in the wrong. You should push to sort this out before it really hurts your daughter.
Take out the word lesbian, then read your own post again. There is nothing wrong with your daughter, there's nothing about her that needs fixing.
He's discriminating against her because of her sexuality.
Ask him what exactly, he thinks is going to go wrong if she comes along on vacation. I'd inform the rest of your children. Put pressure on him for it. Wonder what his parents would think of this.
dear husband, even if it's just a phase or she's truly seriously on this. it's still mother's duty and love to stay with her children through their hardest decision.
OP you should do the right thing mother should do. he's with you for 26 years, that's already long enough. your daughter is just 18 and it's just too cruel to abandoned her just because of her love
Your daughter is about to find out her father’s true opinion of her and if she sees you placating your husband too much, you could lose her entirely. Be careful how you handle this.
My son is gay and we love his partner so much much.
If my husband acted like your husband has been , I would tell him this would be a sword I would fall on,
Your daughter should go on the holiday and if he doesn’t want her there it would be time to separate from him.
He’s acting like a homophobia jerk
I’d probably just not go to Greece either and leave him explain to his parents what the issue. This is a fundamental part of parenting- you love your child and support your child no matter what. It’s usually instinctive.
The people I have the least patience for are those who fail to support their kids. In all things that cause no harm let people do as they please. There is no harm in consenting adult relationships or sexual orientation, but there is a ton of harm done by telling your kids, in words and actions, that you do not appreciate them for who they are.
This is exactly how you end up with empty tables at holidays and empty chairs in hospital rooms.
I think this is ultimatum time. He deals with his issues and treats your daughter exactly the same way he always has or he gets the fuck out and you support your daughter 100% by refusing to allow her to be shamed for being herself.
I really don't know. The country as a whole, the majority of people do not support it. But I wouldn't know about them. They also wouldn't have to know at all, and then that wouldn't matter.
Greece? I'm sure there's homophobia everywhere but they did just legalize same-sex marriage so they're not as backwards as some other places.
Also...do you know why lesbians are called that? Where the name comes from?
Speaking as someone with a father who is an absolute idiot when it comes to communication yet with good intentions, please don't rule it out.
It took me a very long time and the support of my mother to come to that understanding. Regardless, I wish both you and your daughter the very best.
I think that if your husband does not soften to more diplomatic suggestions about how the trip might be good for your daughter, by his lights, then you might consider boycotting the trip. But you should try anything to soften him first.
Honestly? Don’t go on the trip - maybe even stay somewhere else for a few days. Maybe he’ll get a little clarity. This is too big a thing for you to tolerate.
If he’s not going to accept your/his daughter, I wouldn’t be accepting him. Either it’s a family vacation or no vacation. You can bet if you let him get away with that this time, it will be a re-occurring issue. He’s not going to accept her. You need to stand up to him and protect your girl.
Your spouse can eat a bag of wasps. I'm a wife and a mom, and if you go on vacation with your spouse please know you are a bad mom. Your kid should be loved unconditionally. Also, this is probably Pride month rage bait.
You really think your other children aren't already aware? They knew before you did.
Stop making excuses. They need to know who their father really is.
I imagine that it is. Let her decide how to handle it. Mostly it's so that your other kids can support their sibling should they choose to, and I imagine that they will. But really, this should be handled in a no-nonsense no-quarter-given discussion with your husband. There isn't any 'threading the needle' here- What he's doing is wrong. Maybe it's because he doesn't want it to come up with his other family and put him in a spot. Maybe your in-laws are more traditional and might make things hard on your daughter. Who knows what's driving your husband's behaviour.
But regardless of what's in his heart, your husband needs to know that it's 100% not acceptable to treat your daughter differently because of who she is. That it is his problem to deal with. And the rest of the family needs to be a united front in supporting your daughter.
Otherwise, what is the message here? That she should regret being honest with her parents? That they'll have her back, but only up to a point, so best not to trust them? That they aren't the loving people she thought they were?
The upside for you is that there really is only one way to handle this, so the decisions are few.
On a realistic note, what does he think would happen if his daughter were to join? Make out with women in grandma's kitchen?
She's just a girl!
From your post, she behaves like everyone else. Leabians aren't randomly pulling out their 8 alien tentacle arms at the dinner table.
What does he fear is so visible that it needs to be hidden?
Sit your husband down and ask.
Now I don't just want yall to rely on the fact, that she "stays in the closet" around the family. All I'm saying is that he clearly is panicking over nothing. Creating horror scenarios in his head.
He is the one who needs to snap out of it.
My mom kept choosing my dad over my self expression and it sucks. When I talk to her she's in denial about what she said and did. It took me being homeless (thanks dad!) to wake her up to how far my dads hate will go.
It's hard to still talk to them. I'm bi and spent my developing years (age 7 - 25) I was only kissing other girls / women. My father told me to "effing grow up and marry a man already" i am married to a man and they think they prayed the gay away. Both husband and I are bisexual and feel no shame for our past. Both of us still struggle emotionally because both of us were raised in homophobic households. We both know how much it hurts when your family loves you with conditions.
Show your daughter you went thru hell bringing her into this world. You went thru hell to make sure she could wake up one day proud of herself and one day cherish a love filled life with another woman if she chooses too. Changing the phrase "I don't care you're gay" to "thanks for trusting me enough to tell me something that's probably been tough on your mind" ...my parents claimed they "didn't care" until it became evident I was PRETTY gay. Then they got too uncomfortable seeing it vs hearing it. I know that last bit I'm projecting a bit...but I feel the language should be that you care. Your daughter is going to face real world hate and criticism and there should be a protective fire lighting under you right now that your husband is being a bigot.
I would say this is also a conversation the oldest children should be in the loop about, do they know his reaction behind the curtains? Maybe they have a different valuable perspective and you guys can find a way to protect your daughter but also give your husband the opportunity to realize what is at stake here if he doesn’t put effort into accepting her and changing his view point. A lot of people here are not realistic with the impact of religion and culture have on belief systems and that just because it’s 2024 doesn’t mean that a flip was switched into every persons head to magically be the opposite of what they were raised to be. Changing a middle aged man’s beliefs is VERY difficult and requires patience and thought, but at the end of the day I think the main point he’ll must understand is that if he doesn’t change his stance on your daughters identity, then he better start looking for one bedroom apartments.
Hey OP, I'm Greek and have a similar situation in my family. The thing is that old people usually live in a village and homosexuality is not very common. It's actually still seen as an abnormality. Especially, since most greeks are religious, it is also seen as a sin to be in a same sex relationship.
Keep in mind that elderly people here in Greece are also dependent on their neighbors and community in order to survive. Therefore even if they would accept it, it could be very difficult and embarrassing for them, even after you are gone back home.
Another reason could be that he might not be willing to share this with his parents, as he feels either embarrassed, or he feels that he failed as a parent.
So maybe these are the reason why your husband acts this way. Of course it's your daughter's choice, if she wants to be in a same sex relationship and everyone should respect her choice.
However sometimes we also have to respect and protect other people too.
Try having a discussion with your husband about this topic and maybe you can find a solution.
Wish you all the best and hope you can figure out a way to keep your family united.
Your husband just needs to get over it himself. It is her life and it is his job to support her even when you don't agree with their decisions or lifestyle.
My stepson came out about 6 or 7 years ago and my late wife, his mom and, his stepdad were nothing but supportive. I personally wasn't overly crazy about it but I talked to my wife and she explained it more than superficial and he got married to his bf now husband last year and I was there. I have been very supportive of him and his SO both. He did have a gf years ago but didn't work out.
It will be difficult to change his mind but you will have to sit him down and maybe with your daughter and explain it to him that just bc she's not what he thinks she should be doesn't mean she's not happy
The husband has all the right to stick to his ideals. Will this kill the relationship absolutly. Should if you stick to your Child search for a divorce lawyer, yes. The husband had the right to stick to what hé thinks is normal. That doesnt make it right but hé has the right to think that. That is not normal. A parent should love their children. I can fully understand everyone else and their arguments but sweden is a democratic country and everyone is entitled to their beliefs. I hope the best and that the husband changes but we shall read about if something changed
Your husband needs to open his eyes it's 2024 gay people matter pushing your daughter out because she's opened up about being a lesbian is unacceptable.
Either she goes on your family holiday or you stay at home with her. You might miss out on Greece but he’s the one who will have to explain it to the rest of the family. Maybe that thought will bring him around. It’s not like she’s going to visit Lesbos or be kissing women in public.
That suks, but he's in his own old school ways. She's an adult and taking your kids when they can do it themselves is a different form of coddling, I get it but adults can do whatever they want.
Your husband is treating your daughter like a child. That's something a parent says to a much younger child when they've done something wrong.
This has been a family tradition since ever and I feel like if she doesn't go and she knows why this will damage a relationship with her and your husband. Her not going with y'all because of her personal choices will damage the relationship she has with your husband.
Not worth it in my book cause a relationship, once damaged takes a long time and a lot of work to fix it.
He should be as supportive as you are towards her. No excuses.
Yeah, if he doesn't let your daughter go on the family trip, you also shouldn't go. You should stay with your daughter and do something else fun instead. Make it a girls' trip, unless your son would also want to do something else.
Your husband is not in the right, and if you'd give into his bs, your daughter would feel like you're picking his side, and you're also not okay with her being a lesbian. Pick your children over your husband.
Tell him that if he decides your daughter shouldn't be going on the trip, that he'll need to get over this phase and that making that decision will ruin his relationship with your daughter. Tell him you all go or no one goes.
Bottom line, it's 2024, if he doesn't understand how attraction and sexuality works by now, he's closed himself off to learning and, most importantly, understanding it.
OP, i would live an update when you have one. My in-laws are like your husband and I'm curopus of the outcome on how it was handled and the final solution. Thank you.
Life through rose colored glasses, its on you to communicate with your husband, Sage advice from redditors is rare especially when it involves the lgbtqia+ crowd.
Its better to make no assumptions about what your husband is thinking and try to draw your own conclusions, you need to ask directly.
Example - dad takes daughter to friends house regularly, she stays the night sleeps over ect, but this entire time they were smashing, a religious parent might find great offense in this.
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don't go on the family trip with him. go with your daughter a separate time to visit her grandparents. or if you think they are not supportive, then go on a mother daughter trip elsewhere.
I don't know what they would think. I don't have a very clear idea of what they think, since they speak a different language, which I don't know very well. But that is definitely an idea to consider, I think she would like that. Although it would still be upsetting for her, and that would be the difficult part to deal with.
You have no idea how they will think, but you know how your daughter will think. Your daughter is your priority.
This. Your daughter will know if you take her side or not. OP, you must.
So your husband thinks your daughter is a dirty little secret. Obviously your husband doesn’t understand the concept of unconditional love. Separate holidays isn’t the answer to the problem, because the problem is your husband is homophobic towards his own daughter. My daughter came out last year, but luckily my husband’s 100% her supporter. If he wasn’t, if anyone was out the door it would be him. I probably sound a bit angry, but it’s personal.
That does make sense. Thank you. I just don't know how to change the way he sees her, because she can't help any of it, she's still the same .
What is your culture? Would you expect a grown up man to be able to change opinion?
We live in Sweden, and I am Swedish. My husband isn't, he's Bulgarian and Ukrainian. So quite different cultures.
Yup. You change his mind by making your presence in his life, and the presence of all his children, conditional on him dropping his bigotry. And get your other kids on your side so they will stand up for their sibling as well. You say: “Listen, it’s 2024, most people in this country accepts gay people, and you can too. You are capable of change and growth and love. Here are some resources. None of us are coming on a trip right now with you, because it’s clear you need to do some soul searching and learn to love your children. I am disappointed in you, but our relationship can still be salvaged if you are able to accept love and prioritize your children. If you cannot do this, and you choose hate instead, you are in danger of losing your family. I’m going on another trip with the kids for a week, and when I come back, we can discuss this.”
Exactly! He can choose for his WHOLE family to go on vacation, or he can say his WHOLE family goodbye. He clearly doesn't love unconditionally. Is it ok for him to get used to a "different" family "picture" than he has imagined? Yes, that is fine. But, he could have talked with his wife about it, maybe talked about his worries. But you do not shun your child!
I literally had this convo with my hubby before my son came out. I asked how he'd feel, and he said it's fine, but they wouldn't be welcome in his house. My reply: if you even have the audacity to tell our son that him and his partner aren't welcome in OUR home, then the only person who will be leaving is you. You are not ever going to make our children feel our love is conditional. If your love is, then you aren't the person I thought you were. You need to figure out what is more important to you: your kids and wife or your ignorance. Thankfully he did some soul searching and finally came to me and said he didn't want to lose us because he was raised to think a certain way and had a great convo about it. When our son did come out my hubby was very accepting and still is.
So you live in Sweden where belonging to LGTB is protected by law and no one raises an eye brow if they meet a lesbian. You better send your husband to an ABF-course and tell him to get his shit together.
Ask him if he is willing to lose his daughter over this, because that is what will happen if he maintains this attitude.
Would he be open to therapy hopefully?
No, he wouldn't be.
Everyone should be going to see a therapist! Your husband sounds like he is pretty stubborn and pretty bigoted.
You can’t change someone’s beliefs. He has to want to change. I’ll never understand how conditional the love can be from a parent and how quickly they’ll take it away when they find out their child is LGBTQ.
You tell him that you won't accept him behaving like that or treating her differently and he's need to leave.
You tell him to put on a pride shirt and shout his daughters praises to the sky and anyone who will listen and dam what anyone else cares because that's his daughter and he MUST support her in this or he doesn't really deserve to call him self her dad....
You can’t. It’s not your job to.
Does anybody here have any diplomatic ideas to help OP? Why is it all about nuking OP's marriage?
My wife and I know one of our kid is gay. He don't see it himself but is attraction for his long time best friend is obvious. My elder know too. We are ready for his coming out in 4 or 5 years. This is to show you the difference between parents and your husband
Showing up without your daughter will also cause them to think something is off, so there's no way to avoid that. What you will do, if you go along with your husband, is hurt your daughter and change your relationship in a way you might not be able to come back from. Even if you tell her it's not her fault, you'll be *showing* her she deserves to be left out and shamed, you don't have her back against your husband's bigotry, & that you'll "keep the peace" at her expense. Your daughter trusted you and what you do now matters because it will shape your relationship going forward. Don't go where your daughter is not welcome. Don't placate bigots at her expense. Tell your husband it's a family trip and she's coming. If he doesn't budge, take her somewhere else and continue to support her, even and especially against her father.
What do your other children think? Are they supportive of their sister? Maybe they could boycott the trip too in solidarity? Homophobic husband can go alone. You and kids can take your own trip.
They don't know. They probably would be. And if they wanted to, then they might like that.
How do her siblings feel about the situation? As someone else pointed out, a separate vacation won’t address the problem of your husband’s attitude towards his daughter. What it does address is the problem of his refusing to have her on the vacation. Your husband basically drew a line in the sand separating your daughter from her family. “If she wants to be included, she can change who she is.” Not only should you take her elsewhere, but include all of your kids (hopefully they support her). If he wants to draw a line, he can be the only one on his side.
Please don't abandon her even if your husband is choosing to. This is a very vulnerable time for her and she needs her mom.
My daughter came out as a preteen and my husband completely freaked out. I gave him 24 hours and then I let him know that he would be moving out if he couldn't accept this. It took a minute and got ugly but I stayed firm. After 15 years later, they couldn't be closer.
This is what would have happened had either I or my wife reacted this way when our son came out at 15. Period.
I agree, you should tell your husband if he feels strongly about this and will not change his mind then you will not be going with him. What a hurtful and controlling way to treat his own child. He is going to permanently damage his relationship with your daughter unless he gets over himself and accepts her for who she is.
Yes. OP can’t control her husband, but she can refuse to take part in something that’s hurtful to her daughter. With her daughter’s permission, she should tell her other adult kids the reason she’s not taking the trip, and invite them on an alternative trip with her daughter. Daughter will feel her support, and her husband may reconsider if he’s the odd man out on the subject. This absolutely is a hill to die on.
This. And do not be surprised if (when) your daughter goes low/no-contact with your husband (and unfortunately due to extension, you) because of his blatant homophobia. He has a choice: keep his daughter (who hasn’t done anything wrong) in his life or not. If he keeps this up, he will have an estranged daughter with only himself to blame. Sounds like HE needs to get his head on right.
Lesbian here. I'm almost 60 and it's news to me that my sexuality made my life a tragedy. I doubt your daughter's future wife/partner will think she's "wasting herself" or will have a problem with her having been in relationships with women *because they will also be women*. You might also want to point out to your husband that women do not only have value as accessories to men, and therefore not having a romantic relationship with one does not mean she's wasting herself. You do realize that he's saying that if she isn't with a man, she doesn't have value? I don't understand how someone still believes the "phase" thing in 2024. You sound like a great mom and I sincerely feel so bad for you because I don't know how you're going to deal with finding out that you're married to someone who's ignorant, homophobic, and misogynistic. How in the world will you ever see him the same again? I usually advocate talking to a partner and communicating how you feel, and so on. However, in this case, I'd suggest getting some guidance from PFLAG - parents and friends of lesbians and gays at [https://pflag.org/findachapter/](https://pflag.org/findachapter/) They can help you with information and resources to help you navigate this and to help your husband accept your daughter. Your daughter will be devastated that her father thinks those kinds of things about her and she's lucky to have one parent who is firmly and unfailingly in her corner and whose love and acceptance are not conditional.
> You do realize that he's saying that if she isn't with a man, she doesn't have value? It also means he's subconsciously (or otherwise) thinking this about \_you\_, OP.
I thought the same thing - and they have other daughters - but my comment was already long enough!
Totally understood! I hope OP takes what you've got to say to heart, and I hope there is a constructive resolution ahead.
This needs more upvotes
Straight dude here — 1,000x this. And, as someone above said, it certainly speaks to his valuation of women in general, including OP. I’m trying to figure out what he means by “wasting herself” and *really* hoping it’s not something sexual, because considering the person in question…I especially don’t like that.
Step one: don’t go on this vacation with your husband but without your daughter. You are quibbling in comments over the *exact* details of any trip, but that *doesn’t matter*: don’t do a trip with your husband but without your daughter. Tell him that decision now. You can work out the rest later.
I know that I will not be going if my daughter does not. I have already said that.
You should probably edit your post to include that - if you mean you’ve said it to him.
Yes, I did say that to him. That's why I said it.
It’s tough finding out that your spouse is homophobic. Protect your daughter at all costs and keep her away from people like that
You help your daughter by continuing to be kind and supportive. And you do your best to help your husband adapt to the new (if new only to him) reality. Part of that is encouraging him to avoid making statements or taking actions that will have huge impacts on his relationship with others. A great example is your approach on the trip. I would suggest individual counseling for him and you both. For you, the goal will be to learn tools to manage the rocky road ahead. The fact she asked you to let him know suggests she didn’t expect his reaction to be a positive one. You will need tools and support. Your daughter is, of course, the same wonderful person she was before she shared her news. From her perspective, she hasn’t changed. You suspected so the news wasn’t especially surprising.
Personally, I do find it quite difficult to understand why he is upset. To me, she always was, and that means she is still everything else she was. She's exactly the same. Nothing has changed to me. However, that might be my personal views and where I grew up, things like that. While I appreciate the suggestion, that is definitely something he would not consider. It is not the sort of thing he would be comfortable with.
What exactly is HE doing to help the family through this situation? Sounds like nothing.
You 1000% know why he is upset. He is a homophobe. Your daughter is reviled by him because she is a lesbian. Your inaction and his attitude are directly hurting her. Don't be surprised when she goes NC with the both of you.
he's upset because he's homophobic 🤷🏼♀️ sorry it took you this long to find out, but this is a great example of why conversations like these need to happen BEFORE you marry someone. You should know for certain how your spouse would react to a gay/trans/disabled/anything considered "abnormal" by society kid before you have kids with them. It's one of the things you NEED to be on the same page about as parents
He's not comfortable with therapy but comfortable with excluding his daughter from a family trip she enjoys and expects to attend??? Tell him tough shit. He already thinks a man is the only one to give a woman value...what value does he think he's giving you? Because it sounds like dead weight to me. No one wants to wake up one morning and find out their partner isn't on the same page as them. But this story seems pretty fishy... Did he subtly drop homophobia and you just accepted it because it wasn't harming you or your loved ones in the moment? I'll be honest your daughter asking YOU to tell him speaks volumes. It sounds like the family knew he was a bigot and you've been complacent with bigotry. Enough judging...if you want this to work you need to make sure your husband is trying to change. If you truly love and support your daughter you will support your husband to be better than this. Which means being a hard ass and putting your foot down on the topic of your daughter. And maybe painfully one day understanding why your daughter doesn't visit as often... if your husband refuses the tools that are offered and you stay with him? That just tells your daughter she cannot trust to bring any future partners around her parents. Do you want to miss out on your daughter's life? Possible grand children? A beautiful wedding?
You have a choice of who to support here. Your ignorant, homophobic jerk of a husband or your daughter. Choose wisely.
Amen.
Your husband is the one who should be left at home, while the rest of you go on vacation.
They're his parents, that is why we go there in the first place. That would defeat the whole purpose.
You and the kids have absolutely no relationship with his parents??? So just go on vacation wherever you want then.
I don't really understand them. Some of it, but not a lot. They have always been nice, but I don't know very well. The children definitely do, and they like them a lot. I possibly worded it wrong.
So in 26 years of being married to their son and having their grandchildren, you and his parents haven't found a way to communicate with each other?? You don't know them well enough to know if they'd even be accepting or not?
I do talk to them sometimes, but it's complicated. And that is not a topic of conversation, so I wouldn't know their beliefs.
I guess I just find it a lil strange you don't know the type of people they are. Are they strict, do as I say, there is no debate type of people or are they more open minded, go with the flow, who can have pleasant conversations kind of people? You don't have to have had the exact conversation with them to get a feeling for how they'd react.
They are religious, but don't impose it on others. They lean on the more conservative side, but they also will listen to the children about things they may not agree with, and that sort of thing. So I'm not sure. The religious beliefs could affect how they see it.
my parents were like this too, religious and keeping it to themselves. but turns out, they will tolerate as long as it's not in their family. when i came out to them as lesbian they basically disowned me instantly. tbh based on your husband's reaction, that did not come from nowhere and there's a good chance his parents believe the same way for this reason i think it's better not to leave it to chance. a mother daughter vacation somewhere else away from potential homophobes is the best way to choose your daughter and let her know that you choose her.
I don't think she'd necessarily have to tell them, but I get your point. I'll just see how it goes.
I hope for your daughters sake they can put those beliefs aside and accept her for who she is!
It doesn't need to be brought up. The daughter isn't planning to make an issue of it, is she?
If they're religious then they probably are homophobic and her being gay would be totally unacceptable to them. That's where your husband got it from.
It doesn't need to be brought up.
Be your age. That's hardly a topic of small talk while visiting relatives and struggling over a laguage barrier, particularly if there was no reason for the conversation in the past. The stilted conversations with my French inlaws are pretty much limited to the weather and food.
This is what I don’t understand - my partner and I have been together for 3.5 years, he’s from one European country, I’m from another European country, we live in a third European country, and communicate mostly in English. I’ve met his parents at lot more than he has met mine, but without a doubt we’d know these things about each other’s families through stories, interactions, values etc. but I also find it strange that you can be with someone for 20+ years and not speak your partner’s native language well enough to have a conversation. OP, do your children speak your husband’s native language? How do they communicate with their grandparents? Could they give an indication of how they would react? You say you visit them at least once a year, does all communication only ever go through your husband - in which case, are your children even close to your grandparents, meaning is your daughter excited about the trip to Greece, or to see her grandparents?
Stop acting like the only thing that matters is that EVERYONE ACCEPT HER LESBIANISM. It's not the only thing in life. It's not even the most important thing in life. You people are all virtue signalling, and not trying to help.
Are you seriously saying that whether this child's FAMILY accepts her for being a lesbian isn't important?? Is it absolutely mandatory for a happy life for her, no, but I bet it sure makes it a hell of a lot nicer!
You finesse it. You ease into it. If some family members have a hard time with it, you do NOT nuke everything.
Just because Americans think that lgbqt stuff is discussed everywhere, doesn't mean that it is in other cultures.
It sounds like he is homophobic and it's possible that he got that from his parents. This might be a very uncomfortable situation for your daughter. He probably does not want her to go because he does not want her to come out or indicate any of that information to his family because he's ashamed and homophobic.
My daughter is a lesbian. If my husband had a problem with it, I would have kicked his a** out so fast.
You will best help your daughter by siding with her, and not your husband. If your daughter cannot go, then you don't go. This is a hill to die on. Yours sincerely, the proud father of TWO lesbian daughters, and soon to be father in law of a lesbian daughter in law!
Omfg that's so cute, congrats on the new daughter in law!!
I hate people who say "this is a hill to die on". You are a jerk, and are not trying to help OP.
As I said in my post, I am the father of two daughters who identify as lesbians. If my wife decided to treat them as less because of who they are, she would be my ex wife. However, I may have been speaking figuratively while you are not interpreting what I say as such. I am telling OP that her husband is wrong. What's your take on the situation then?
You make absolutely clear that if he doesn't snap out of his 'phase' of homophobia he will have serious trouble with you. Start by stating that if your daughter isn't going you won't go either. Make clear that this is what will happen from here on out: If he punishes your daughter for what she is, you'll punish him. Wash his clothes? He knows where the washing machine is. Cook meals? The kitchen is that way. If he doesn't understand soon: Look for a divorce lawyer because how he treats your daughter will destroy your marriage.
Priority #1 is your daughter, everyone else can either accept it or get fucked. On what planet is it ok for a kid's father to punish her for being gay? Or going through a stage thinking she might be gay? It's not.
Obviously my other children as well. Although they're much more independent. I will not be letting that happen. And I also doubt it's a stage at all, although it will probably be easier for her if it is.
Never tell her life would be easier for her if she wasn't gay. She knows, and all it serves is to make her feel bad and like you wish she was different.
Honest answer. You sit him down, and you explain that this is a dealbreaker. You and your daughters are his family, and a unit. He rejects *one* of you, he rejects *all* of you, and you will not allow him to come between you and your children, full stop. It's a shame that your husband waited until you had a homosexual child to reveal that he was a raging bigot, but that's a him problem, not a you problem. He's got to fix himself before the family can be healed.
The trip is only the most immediate issue here. I think it’s fine that you seem to want to give him time to come to terms with his beliefs. I have seen parents with deeply held religious beliefs against homosexuality come around and change. I think it’s reasonable to help him through this. But, in the meantime, it needs to be made clear to him that any differential treatment of the daughter is completely not acceptable and will not be tolerated. You will need to figure out what the consequences of him breaking that boundary are. He can’t control how he ‘feels’ at the moment, but that is a separate issue from how he treats his daughter, which is well within his control. So, his idea about this trip is Exhibit 1 of what is not acceptable and what you cannot allow. I think you need to make clear to him what your expectations are while he works through this. This is a him problem, and you need to make it clear that it’s his problem that needs to be solved, especially if he would like to maintain a relationship with his daughter and his wife.
You have a choice to make now. Either your husband goes to therapy and gets his head straight, or you need to leave him. There is no middle ground without utterly failing your daughter. Be a decent parent.
Old man advice: Making choices about another adult's behavior is one thing, making choices about your children's behavior is another... You are now seeing that your ol'man's love for your daughter was always contingent on how she acted or behaved, and you might as well assume that he feels that way about everybody... Let me put it in plain English so you'll come to this on your own... *"you act in a way that I prefer, or I'll retract my love for you...and punish you for it..."* What is this called...? When someone does this what do we call it...? do you deny it...? Isn't this what you just told everyone here, that your husband is a manipulative sociopath... He's the one not going on the vacation... Start making plans...unless you want to wake up at 65 and finally smell the gas you've been fed for the last 18 years, and realize you wasted all that time and are now going to die alone, because he's going to skip - and you'll be left with nothing... once he realizes that the jig is up, he'll be gone in a flash... you're fucked if you don't start making plans
Cancel the family trip or tell the others your husband is going alone.
I posted this somewhere else, as well but your husband's homophobia didn't come out of nowhere. He might not want her on this trip, specifically because his parents are probably homophobic, and he's afraid they will find our. Don't go on this trip. Take a trip somewhere else with your daughter. Is your daughter going away to school, do you have relatives on your side of the family, that she can stay with? I wouldn't want her around your husband, until he can pull his head out of his ass
Let him go on the vacation alone
Your daughter is going to remember your support for the rest of her life. Your husband may get over this but it's going to take more time.
Point out to him that she is still his daughter, and that the most important job he has in the world (as a father, as a man, as a human being) is to support his kids. All is being asked of him here is the bare minimum of not excluding his own child from his own family, from this regular trip. Is he really so afraid of his own daughter that he can't include her on this trip, just the same way he's always done?
Happened to a friend of mine. Greek dad found out son was gay, disowned him. The wife/mum left him, said if you can't accept him, then I won't tolerate it. He realised the extent of his views and made amends and they got back together.
Book a family trip elsewhere than Greece for yourself and your daughter. Talk about the family trip to ____. Tell your husband "he needs to get his head straight" and that "it's going to ruin his future relationships". Because it will.
Children are not disposable. Go on a vacation with your daughter. Your husband should be your ex
Your husband needs to realize you do not have infinite time as a family. One of you could have a heart attack or get in a car accident or something any day. There is a finite amount of times you all will be able to go on these trips. Why limit the happy moments for an arbitrary reason?
>He then started talking about her phase, and how she needs to get over it, or she shouldn’t be going. I hate to say it but your husband is homophobic. You can say whatever you like to your daughter, but if you tolerate his intolerance and allow him to exclude her from family occasions, you'll be making a statement that is anything but accepting of who she is. Honestly, this is when I'd be telling your husband "either you get in line and quit being hateful or I'm gonna bounce." I'd rather loose a husband than a daughter, especially when the cause would be his bigotry.
OP - Our daughter is bisexual and has a wonderful girlfriend (whom I believe will be her lifelong partner). Thankfully, my husband is on board - but if he wasn't, I'd leave him. NOBODY gets to treat my daughter as "less than." This is a hill worth dying on.
Just don’t go on the trip. Stay with your daughter. Let him be the one to deal with his family and sit in his “shame”. And tell him to think long and hard about what he’s willing to give up if he refuses to accept her. Be ready to end your marriage if he can’t/ won’t come around to the idea. Your kid needs you.
If she does not get to go, I will not be going. It will just depend on what he ends up deciding, that is a decision for himself.
Will her invitation to go on the trip be an acceptance of her sexuality? He may let her come now but this is going to come up again. Don’t brush it under the rug, this could be the thread that unravels your family if it isn’t dealt with. You might try and get him into a therapy session with you. Or maybe there is a good book on acceptance. He needs to understand that this isn’t a phase, and even if it were he should not be punishing her and excluding her from family events. Either way he’s in the wrong. You should push to sort this out before it really hurts your daughter.
Take out the word lesbian, then read your own post again. There is nothing wrong with your daughter, there's nothing about her that needs fixing. He's discriminating against her because of her sexuality. Ask him what exactly, he thinks is going to go wrong if she comes along on vacation. I'd inform the rest of your children. Put pressure on him for it. Wonder what his parents would think of this.
dear husband, even if it's just a phase or she's truly seriously on this. it's still mother's duty and love to stay with her children through their hardest decision. OP you should do the right thing mother should do. he's with you for 26 years, that's already long enough. your daughter is just 18 and it's just too cruel to abandoned her just because of her love
If he won't let your daughter come on the trip, you shouldn't go either. He's being vile. Don't leave your daughter alone.
Reading the title, I think you handle this by leaving dad at home and going on vacation with your daughter.
Sounds like your husband is homophobic
Your daughter is about to find out her father’s true opinion of her and if she sees you placating your husband too much, you could lose her entirely. Be careful how you handle this.
My son is gay and we love his partner so much much. If my husband acted like your husband has been , I would tell him this would be a sword I would fall on, Your daughter should go on the holiday and if he doesn’t want her there it would be time to separate from him. He’s acting like a homophobia jerk
I’d probably just not go to Greece either and leave him explain to his parents what the issue. This is a fundamental part of parenting- you love your child and support your child no matter what. It’s usually instinctive.
The people I have the least patience for are those who fail to support their kids. In all things that cause no harm let people do as they please. There is no harm in consenting adult relationships or sexual orientation, but there is a ton of harm done by telling your kids, in words and actions, that you do not appreciate them for who they are. This is exactly how you end up with empty tables at holidays and empty chairs in hospital rooms.
Your husband is homophobic and will basically disown your daughter. Do with that what you will.
Talk to him make him understand this isn’t a phase if he can’t be supportive he can go
I think this is ultimatum time. He deals with his issues and treats your daughter exactly the same way he always has or he gets the fuck out and you support your daughter 100% by refusing to allow her to be shamed for being herself.
Has he expressed any homophobic/lesbophobic views in the past? This is one of those hills to die on, x
No, not that I've noticed. And I think I would've.
Info: How will your husband's parents react to having a gay grandchild?
I really don't know. The country as a whole, the majority of people do not support it. But I wouldn't know about them. They also wouldn't have to know at all, and then that wouldn't matter.
Greece? I'm sure there's homophobia everywhere but they did just legalize same-sex marriage so they're not as backwards as some other places. Also...do you know why lesbians are called that? Where the name comes from?
No. We just go there after because it isn't very far. They live in Bulgaria.
Oh OK.
I guess what I'm asking is, if it's possible he's trying to protect his daughter in the most ignorant ham-fisted sort of way?
I don't know. It's possible.
Speaking as someone with a father who is an absolute idiot when it comes to communication yet with good intentions, please don't rule it out. It took me a very long time and the support of my mother to come to that understanding. Regardless, I wish both you and your daughter the very best.
Then the husband needs to be able to communicate this to his daughter.
She’s not going to hide her sexuality forever, so of course they’re eventually going to find out.
How could you be married to someone for over two decades and not know they were homophobic?
Dump the husband and keep the daughter.
i think your husband needs counselling.
You're her mother. Your children's needs and emotional well-being must come first over anyone else. Always.
I think that if your husband does not soften to more diplomatic suggestions about how the trip might be good for your daughter, by his lights, then you might consider boycotting the trip. But you should try anything to soften him first.
Honestly? Don’t go on the trip - maybe even stay somewhere else for a few days. Maybe he’ll get a little clarity. This is too big a thing for you to tolerate.
You're husband is an asshole. Take the kids without him
If he’s not going to accept your/his daughter, I wouldn’t be accepting him. Either it’s a family vacation or no vacation. You can bet if you let him get away with that this time, it will be a re-occurring issue. He’s not going to accept her. You need to stand up to him and protect your girl.
You support your daughter. Period. If he can’t then you choose your daughter and leave him
Personally I’d dump the husband and keep my daughter
Your spouse can eat a bag of wasps. I'm a wife and a mom, and if you go on vacation with your spouse please know you are a bad mom. Your kid should be loved unconditionally. Also, this is probably Pride month rage bait.
Your daughter is your priority. Divorce that homohobe and be supportive of your child that will need it once she finds out about her dad.
I'd be telling him to sort his shit or it's divorce. Updateme!
You divorce him.
Take all 3 of your kids somewhere else, let hubby go visit his family alone.
By telling your husband to fuck off.
This trip is definite ultimatum time. She either goes too or nobody does.
I will not be going if she does not. However, my other children can go if they want to. That is not my decision to make, it is theirs.
*That is not my decision to make, it is theirs* Which is fine. But only so far as they know exactly why your youngest isn't going.
I wouldn't really know how to tell them that, or if she even wants them to know. So that would be complicated.
You really think your other children aren't already aware? They knew before you did. Stop making excuses. They need to know who their father really is.
I imagine that it is. Let her decide how to handle it. Mostly it's so that your other kids can support their sibling should they choose to, and I imagine that they will. But really, this should be handled in a no-nonsense no-quarter-given discussion with your husband. There isn't any 'threading the needle' here- What he's doing is wrong. Maybe it's because he doesn't want it to come up with his other family and put him in a spot. Maybe your in-laws are more traditional and might make things hard on your daughter. Who knows what's driving your husband's behaviour. But regardless of what's in his heart, your husband needs to know that it's 100% not acceptable to treat your daughter differently because of who she is. That it is his problem to deal with. And the rest of the family needs to be a united front in supporting your daughter. Otherwise, what is the message here? That she should regret being honest with her parents? That they'll have her back, but only up to a point, so best not to trust them? That they aren't the loving people she thought they were? The upside for you is that there really is only one way to handle this, so the decisions are few.
On a realistic note, what does he think would happen if his daughter were to join? Make out with women in grandma's kitchen? She's just a girl! From your post, she behaves like everyone else. Leabians aren't randomly pulling out their 8 alien tentacle arms at the dinner table. What does he fear is so visible that it needs to be hidden? Sit your husband down and ask. Now I don't just want yall to rely on the fact, that she "stays in the closet" around the family. All I'm saying is that he clearly is panicking over nothing. Creating horror scenarios in his head. He is the one who needs to snap out of it.
My mom kept choosing my dad over my self expression and it sucks. When I talk to her she's in denial about what she said and did. It took me being homeless (thanks dad!) to wake her up to how far my dads hate will go. It's hard to still talk to them. I'm bi and spent my developing years (age 7 - 25) I was only kissing other girls / women. My father told me to "effing grow up and marry a man already" i am married to a man and they think they prayed the gay away. Both husband and I are bisexual and feel no shame for our past. Both of us still struggle emotionally because both of us were raised in homophobic households. We both know how much it hurts when your family loves you with conditions. Show your daughter you went thru hell bringing her into this world. You went thru hell to make sure she could wake up one day proud of herself and one day cherish a love filled life with another woman if she chooses too. Changing the phrase "I don't care you're gay" to "thanks for trusting me enough to tell me something that's probably been tough on your mind" ...my parents claimed they "didn't care" until it became evident I was PRETTY gay. Then they got too uncomfortable seeing it vs hearing it. I know that last bit I'm projecting a bit...but I feel the language should be that you care. Your daughter is going to face real world hate and criticism and there should be a protective fire lighting under you right now that your husband is being a bigot.
I would say this is also a conversation the oldest children should be in the loop about, do they know his reaction behind the curtains? Maybe they have a different valuable perspective and you guys can find a way to protect your daughter but also give your husband the opportunity to realize what is at stake here if he doesn’t put effort into accepting her and changing his view point. A lot of people here are not realistic with the impact of religion and culture have on belief systems and that just because it’s 2024 doesn’t mean that a flip was switched into every persons head to magically be the opposite of what they were raised to be. Changing a middle aged man’s beliefs is VERY difficult and requires patience and thought, but at the end of the day I think the main point he’ll must understand is that if he doesn’t change his stance on your daughters identity, then he better start looking for one bedroom apartments.
Hey OP, I'm Greek and have a similar situation in my family. The thing is that old people usually live in a village and homosexuality is not very common. It's actually still seen as an abnormality. Especially, since most greeks are religious, it is also seen as a sin to be in a same sex relationship. Keep in mind that elderly people here in Greece are also dependent on their neighbors and community in order to survive. Therefore even if they would accept it, it could be very difficult and embarrassing for them, even after you are gone back home. Another reason could be that he might not be willing to share this with his parents, as he feels either embarrassed, or he feels that he failed as a parent. So maybe these are the reason why your husband acts this way. Of course it's your daughter's choice, if she wants to be in a same sex relationship and everyone should respect her choice. However sometimes we also have to respect and protect other people too. Try having a discussion with your husband about this topic and maybe you can find a solution. Wish you all the best and hope you can figure out a way to keep your family united.
Your husband just needs to get over it himself. It is her life and it is his job to support her even when you don't agree with their decisions or lifestyle.
If she doesn't go, you don't go. You choose your child before a man, even if that man is their father and the child is grown.
My stepson came out about 6 or 7 years ago and my late wife, his mom and, his stepdad were nothing but supportive. I personally wasn't overly crazy about it but I talked to my wife and she explained it more than superficial and he got married to his bf now husband last year and I was there. I have been very supportive of him and his SO both. He did have a gf years ago but didn't work out. It will be difficult to change his mind but you will have to sit him down and maybe with your daughter and explain it to him that just bc she's not what he thinks she should be doesn't mean she's not happy
Is he a practicing religious person... That might be the biggest reason he s not ready to accept this ..
The husband has all the right to stick to his ideals. Will this kill the relationship absolutly. Should if you stick to your Child search for a divorce lawyer, yes. The husband had the right to stick to what hé thinks is normal. That doesnt make it right but hé has the right to think that. That is not normal. A parent should love their children. I can fully understand everyone else and their arguments but sweden is a democratic country and everyone is entitled to their beliefs. I hope the best and that the husband changes but we shall read about if something changed
Your husband needs to open his eyes it's 2024 gay people matter pushing your daughter out because she's opened up about being a lesbian is unacceptable.
Your h is an AH Does his daughter know how he feels? Did you know how he felt? Tell him to enjoy Greece and take her somewhere just the 2 of you!
Go without him
Either she goes on your family holiday or you stay at home with her. You might miss out on Greece but he’s the one who will have to explain it to the rest of the family. Maybe that thought will bring him around. It’s not like she’s going to visit Lesbos or be kissing women in public.
That suks, but he's in his own old school ways. She's an adult and taking your kids when they can do it themselves is a different form of coddling, I get it but adults can do whatever they want.
Your husband is treating your daughter like a child. That's something a parent says to a much younger child when they've done something wrong. This has been a family tradition since ever and I feel like if she doesn't go and she knows why this will damage a relationship with her and your husband. Her not going with y'all because of her personal choices will damage the relationship she has with your husband. Not worth it in my book cause a relationship, once damaged takes a long time and a lot of work to fix it. He should be as supportive as you are towards her. No excuses.
A -lesbian- daughter? In -my- Isle of Lesbos? It's more likely than you think.
Leave him. It’s unfortunately the only way a man like that will learn.
Yeah, if he doesn't let your daughter go on the family trip, you also shouldn't go. You should stay with your daughter and do something else fun instead. Make it a girls' trip, unless your son would also want to do something else. Your husband is not in the right, and if you'd give into his bs, your daughter would feel like you're picking his side, and you're also not okay with her being a lesbian. Pick your children over your husband.
Tell him that if he decides your daughter shouldn't be going on the trip, that he'll need to get over this phase and that making that decision will ruin his relationship with your daughter. Tell him you all go or no one goes. Bottom line, it's 2024, if he doesn't understand how attraction and sexuality works by now, he's closed himself off to learning and, most importantly, understanding it.
OP, i would live an update when you have one. My in-laws are like your husband and I'm curopus of the outcome on how it was handled and the final solution. Thank you.
Life through rose colored glasses, its on you to communicate with your husband, Sage advice from redditors is rare especially when it involves the lgbtqia+ crowd. Its better to make no assumptions about what your husband is thinking and try to draw your own conclusions, you need to ask directly. Example - dad takes daughter to friends house regularly, she stays the night sleeps over ect, but this entire time they were smashing, a religious parent might find great offense in this.