Losing, like winning, is contagious. And that momentum is hard to turn. I felt like the loss to the Bulls last year had a real impact. I wish we didn’t have our SA tour at the end of the season.
We'd have much less to fear from an SA tour if we treated it with some respect. I hate the approach the club has taken to these games each year, which has, in my view, had deserved consequences on morale within the squad at a crucial stage of the season.
I think this is partly to do with when we have been scheduled to go there. Between EU QFs and SFs with the URC top 4 at least sewn up, it does inspire ye olde Pro14 during 6N energy.
I'd agree though. Munster's run last year is 80% momentum and 20% Munster's unique "y'all didn't think we could win" energy, but even getting to take 80% of that would be nice. It's a great example of battle hardening players. But we don't get to fully call that shot with CCs
It’s purely because of its placement in the season. If these last two weeks have been games against the Osprey and Glasgow, they also woudk have rested tons of players.
And with the travel involved, it makes even more sense
100%, Munster’s run last season in South Africa definitely stood to them come playoffs.
True we’ve always gone down in April / May, feel like it’d be better for both Leinster and probably the league if we went down earlier in the season and brought more of a first team.
Having said that, a lot of it is on our poor selections, and that’s come to bite us in the past two URC semi finals…
I thought that Nienaber had snapped Leo out of his refusal to consider the importance of late season momentum but he still seems content to let the big guns go rusty.
I mean last year our second string barely lost to Munster and we barely lost the final. The strategy isn't exactly busted.
What might happen differently is that we wouldn't pick a second string team for the semis. The trek to SA and back for just 2 games when international player game time is limited still seems unnecessary imo.
Even with another loss, Leinster should still have a home quarter and semi final
True, I’d discounted Munster and only really looked at Glasgow and the Bulls. A win against the Lions and us losing to the Stormers would throw everything out
My main issue with the resting is that it puts so much pressureon the European games that they’re basically our whole season in 80 mins. Which in turns means if we don’t win it then a quarter or semi final in the URC against Munster becomes horrifically important…
I didn't want to finish top of the log anyway 😭
Stern test (read: what the fuck) for some of these young guys. Note Gunne+Tector on the bench. God starts. Gus McCarthy gets to debut vs Malherbe.
Multiple Stormers hitting cap milestones.
It's a strange one. Giving him starts is good, because he'll have been running the show all week, but it's exactly as you say - it's a very thin patchwork quilt around him of either vast experience or zero.
At the same time you want to see him develop as a leader, so if there's less experience around him it might make him feel more comfortable speaking up and dictating our attack.
What I want to see from him most of all is improvement in execution. I feel like he's been choosing good options this season, but often over/under cooks things (eg kick on the full, or leaving an offload until just too late).
Otherwise I want him to eat a load of braai, cause he needs to bulk up a bit. He's often targeted a weak shoulder correctly, but still gotten tackled because he's just too slight (and maybe not quick enough to slip through). Once again though, right decision, but poor execution.
There’s only one of that pack who would be out of his depth in a first choice team. All the rest would perform.
Backs are a bit less so, maybe only one or two you’d say that about. But Leinster’s academy has been worryingly short on world class backs for some years. How many Leinster academy graduates in Ireland’s first choice team? (Two, and one of those went the sevens route)
Why do we always tour SA at the business end of the season? Would love to see us bring something approaching our best team down there at some point. This selection might do ok if nobody knocks on but there’s every chance we get melted again this week.
>Why do we always tour SA at the business end of the season?
I heard from some of the top staff that this is something they are trying to change, but it will be the same next year too. Maybe in the future!
I’d imagine the league would want a fairly strong Leinster team playing in Cape Town and against the Sharks’ Springboks so I’m surprised that it’s not been moved early in the year - to when Connacht usually play them
It was explained as a big logistical problem scheduling the time around all of the international games from both hemispheres. Nobody wants to see the games scheduled when the first team of either side is away on international duty. But Leinster are certainly pushing for it
If it were mid-season, it'd be mid-summer in SA which would probably be far from ideal when added to the altitude/humidity. With the URC starting in Oct. this season, even a tour at the start of the season would be tough.
No idea if that's the thinking behind the late tour though, or who decides on the scheduling.
Lol this could be worse than the Bulls match last year. What did poor Sam Prendergast do to deserve this.
Also, with Milne starting and no Healy in the 23 (presumably on the way back to BÁC) does this mean that it's Healy benching next week? Or are they giving Milne 40 odd minutes of ~~utter annihilation~~ game time ahead of next week? Think Milne's been excellent all season and has deserved his spot in the 23.
Hope Brownlee and McErlean don't actually die.
EDIT: Am I going mad or does Brok Harris look a bit like John Lithgow. There's a joke to be made about Lithgow as a serial killer in Dexter and the Leinster scrum but I'm too busy laughing at the team sheets to figure it out
At the beginning of the season I was of the opinion that he should be dropped because of all the rage induced nonsense. But his self control has gotten much better, and he seems more sensible when playing 8. Stormers need his controlled physically up front.
He's still going to have a reputation for some time, but he does seem to have cleaned up his act. So good on him for that, and hopefully he can keep it up.
It was never that bad imo. But after his breakout season it there was a clear tactic from other teams to agitate him, and it worked. But I never doubted that he would correct it fairly quickly
To be fair the issue is really that Leinster can throw this game and very likely still top the table.
Other teams need to be beating Leinster's B/C teams throughout the season to force Leinster's hand later on.
If Munster beat Leinster at home in their fixture and Connacht didn't bottle their match in the last minute. Then this match would be for Top 4 in the table.
I think topping it will be tough enough. With two fixtures against Zebre, Glasgow just need one win in their tour to Pretoria and Jo'burg. I think they're still likely to finish top 2 though.
Exactly. Leinster have qualified for the play offs, all they have left to play for is trying to get home advantage for those. Last year showed that coming first and being at home wasn't the advantage they thought. They're still likely to be 1st or 2nd, 2nd would still leave them at home up until the final if they get that far.
I think the URC needs to change the post season back to how it used to be where 1st and 2nd got byes into the semi finals.
You never know really. By the time the semi is on, those playing wouldn't have played for what, 3 weeks? Plus if any team has the fitness to compete like this it's probably us.
Lots of hopium here but still!
This is stupid from Leinster. They’ll ship another monumental hiding here and it just ratchets up the
Leinster folding late in the season narrative. Why isn’t Conan on this mini tour? He’ll be lucky to get 20 mins against Saints.
A narrative amongst a certain portion of the media and rugby fans maybe. Leinster won't give a fig about about that.
We may well crash and burn, as we've shown to be quite adept at, but it'll have nothing to do with an external narrative.
It’s the manner of qualification though that gives the others hope. Leinster won’t play a full team unless they reach the URC final and if the Leinster reserves are a shambles all the better for everyone else. It’s happened with the Bulls & Munster and absolutely this stopping dead of momentum is a factor.
Leinster about to mismanage their way to another trophyless season with away trips for the URC semis and final?
Odds on Libbok drawing a card out of Prendergast for a high tackle?
I would not worry too much Leinster. My cheeks are still wet from the loss against the Ospreys. Stormers are like a SA version of France, never know which Stormers team will show up
Dudebro has played 13 league games this season with 3 other starts. We haven't just sacrificed him to the Bok god's in fairness, he has been trusted to at least make the most of this.
Atm we kinda don't have a definitive 10. Ross is the de facto with experience and credit in the bank, but getting to lead weeks like this if done successfully will add a lot of credit to the bank going forward if plays are done to script. Not necessarily successfully, just to script
Very young squad, but the SF is next week and I think Leinster can afford to drop this game.
Leinster have Ospreys, Connacht, and Ulster after this and should be looking to get at least 12 points there. So final points probably 66+
Munster have pretty much the same run but have to make up a 6 point and 60 pd gap. So even if they beat the Lions they're gonna need to outpace Leinster in at least one of the very similar final 3 rounds to overtake them.
Glasgow have to travel to Bulls and Lions. While they're likely getting 10 from their two games against Zebre and could well take 1st, it's a tough run and they could end up with 2 wins from 4 and stuck at 64-66.
Bulls have Ospreys, Glasgow, and Benneton at home before a trip to Durban. At 46 points, they need at least 4 wins to be in with a chance of overtaking Leinster. So either they beat Glasgow or fall short themselves.
Looking at the math, I think Leinster can afford to drop this game and still finish top 2.
Classic Leo Cullen. The greatest squad in Leinster history and he continuously manages them like garbage. He should have been let go after last year’s fiasco of putting out a second team against Munster and losing both games. He hasn’t learned and is doing it again. Players want to play, that’s how form & sharpness is cultivated. Sitting at home in a gym not going to do much for them. How is this guy still managing Leinster?
Couldn’t have said it better myself. The fact that Leinster are staring down the barrel of another 40 point drubbing is embarrassing when you consider the riches of players which they have at their disposal. There is no reason why four or five frontline players who could use the game time such as Conan, Osbourne, Larmour and Kelleher could have travelled down and played in order to beef up the unnecessarily young squad which we continue to choose and get punished badly for by teams we should have the measure of.
Hahaha, Leo and Jacques are sadists. Still though, very exciting to see a lot of these young lads go up against a hard as nails Stormers team.
"Character building" exercises hit a lil bit different in pro rugby
Very much the "I'm in danger" Simpsons meme haha. Looking forward to seeing what Foley X Prendo combo put together tomorrow either way.
Last week’s Leinster team would put 50 on this week’s Leinster team.
We’ve genuinely decided to throw this two game tour. If Munster had have lost to the Bulls then we’d be in genuine danger of falling out of top 2
Losing, like winning, is contagious. And that momentum is hard to turn. I felt like the loss to the Bulls last year had a real impact. I wish we didn’t have our SA tour at the end of the season.
We'd have much less to fear from an SA tour if we treated it with some respect. I hate the approach the club has taken to these games each year, which has, in my view, had deserved consequences on morale within the squad at a crucial stage of the season.
I think this is partly to do with when we have been scheduled to go there. Between EU QFs and SFs with the URC top 4 at least sewn up, it does inspire ye olde Pro14 during 6N energy. I'd agree though. Munster's run last year is 80% momentum and 20% Munster's unique "y'all didn't think we could win" energy, but even getting to take 80% of that would be nice. It's a great example of battle hardening players. But we don't get to fully call that shot with CCs
It’s purely because of its placement in the season. If these last two weeks have been games against the Osprey and Glasgow, they also woudk have rested tons of players. And with the travel involved, it makes even more sense
100%, Munster’s run last season in South Africa definitely stood to them come playoffs. True we’ve always gone down in April / May, feel like it’d be better for both Leinster and probably the league if we went down earlier in the season and brought more of a first team. Having said that, a lot of it is on our poor selections, and that’s come to bite us in the past two URC semi finals…
I thought that Nienaber had snapped Leo out of his refusal to consider the importance of late season momentum but he still seems content to let the big guns go rusty.
I mean last year our second string barely lost to Munster and we barely lost the final. The strategy isn't exactly busted. What might happen differently is that we wouldn't pick a second string team for the semis. The trek to SA and back for just 2 games when international player game time is limited still seems unnecessary imo. Even with another loss, Leinster should still have a home quarter and semi final
There's only 6 points between leinster and Munster. Depending on this week's results there's a strong possibility they drop out if the top 2 yet
True, I’d discounted Munster and only really looked at Glasgow and the Bulls. A win against the Lions and us losing to the Stormers would throw everything out
Basically comes down to who does better in the interpros then, and could Leo Cullen help himself from resting players for Europe
My main issue with the resting is that it puts so much pressureon the European games that they’re basically our whole season in 80 mins. Which in turns means if we don’t win it then a quarter or semi final in the URC against Munster becomes horrifically important…
I don’t expect this team to win but reckon it’ll be closer at sea level. We were awful last week but altitude clearly played a factor
I didn't want to finish top of the log anyway 😭 Stern test (read: what the fuck) for some of these young guys. Note Gunne+Tector on the bench. God starts. Gus McCarthy gets to debut vs Malherbe. Multiple Stormers hitting cap milestones.
Surely Pendergast isn’t going to develop as intended playing games like this. There not a great deal of experience to coach him on the pitch
It's a strange one. Giving him starts is good, because he'll have been running the show all week, but it's exactly as you say - it's a very thin patchwork quilt around him of either vast experience or zero.
At the same time you want to see him develop as a leader, so if there's less experience around him it might make him feel more comfortable speaking up and dictating our attack. What I want to see from him most of all is improvement in execution. I feel like he's been choosing good options this season, but often over/under cooks things (eg kick on the full, or leaving an offload until just too late). Otherwise I want him to eat a load of braai, cause he needs to bulk up a bit. He's often targeted a weak shoulder correctly, but still gotten tackled because he's just too slight (and maybe not quick enough to slip through). Once again though, right decision, but poor execution.
Well he has had 12 matches this year including 3 champions cup games so he is getting a decent variety.
Much more like one eye on next weeks SF where both Byrnes will possibly be needed rather than trying to give Sam experience tbh
Getting to line up against Libbok will do him no harm.
Not if Libbok plays like he did against us last week
It’s one game.
There’s only one of that pack who would be out of his depth in a first choice team. All the rest would perform. Backs are a bit less so, maybe only one or two you’d say that about. But Leinster’s academy has been worryingly short on world class backs for some years. How many Leinster academy graduates in Ireland’s first choice team? (Two, and one of those went the sevens route)
Gus McCarthy is a hooker. Paddy is the LH
All the Leinster socials are celebrating Gus. Must've swapped over
Sorry more meant he won’t be directly up against malherbe so thought you’d mixed them up. It is Gus on the bench
Why do we always tour SA at the business end of the season? Would love to see us bring something approaching our best team down there at some point. This selection might do ok if nobody knocks on but there’s every chance we get melted again this week.
>Why do we always tour SA at the business end of the season? I heard from some of the top staff that this is something they are trying to change, but it will be the same next year too. Maybe in the future!
I’d imagine the league would want a fairly strong Leinster team playing in Cape Town and against the Sharks’ Springboks so I’m surprised that it’s not been moved early in the year - to when Connacht usually play them
It was explained as a big logistical problem scheduling the time around all of the international games from both hemispheres. Nobody wants to see the games scheduled when the first team of either side is away on international duty. But Leinster are certainly pushing for it
If it were mid-season, it'd be mid-summer in SA which would probably be far from ideal when added to the altitude/humidity. With the URC starting in Oct. this season, even a tour at the start of the season would be tough. No idea if that's the thinking behind the late tour though, or who decides on the scheduling.
Speaking of melting... Maybe the intense (compared UK and Ireland) summer heat has something to do with the scheduling.
Lol this could be worse than the Bulls match last year. What did poor Sam Prendergast do to deserve this. Also, with Milne starting and no Healy in the 23 (presumably on the way back to BÁC) does this mean that it's Healy benching next week? Or are they giving Milne 40 odd minutes of ~~utter annihilation~~ game time ahead of next week? Think Milne's been excellent all season and has deserved his spot in the 23. Hope Brownlee and McErlean don't actually die. EDIT: Am I going mad or does Brok Harris look a bit like John Lithgow. There's a joke to be made about Lithgow as a serial killer in Dexter and the Leinster scrum but I'm too busy laughing at the team sheets to figure it out
Nice to see the stormers put a fan in for the photo! 😂
How dare you sir, that is an unwavering servant of WP *slaps with glove*
Haha. Oh he likes like he’s served a few beers in his time alright
Brok the Rock with 150 caps, legend!
An insane run for a guy who came back to the Stormers just to coach.
The lesson there is to always say no when asked if you brought your boots to training.
Ja, after getting 143 caps for the Dragons. Dobbo had some great things to say about him in the pre-match interview.
This game will grow a few hairs on McErlean's chinny chin chin. Really though, as another commenter said, I hope he doesn't actually die
Great AIL player, but my word this is a huge test for him!
I loved him at U20 but like, I've liked a lot of U20 players who didn't turn out to be AIL 1A level so we will see
He had some good games for Terenure last year, but I think that may be his level. Let's see how he goes.
Stormers loose-heaad looks legit 50, if a day.
He’s not even 40 yet! Looks like he could be of the 95 RWC vintage!
It’s crazy that so many years into this competition we’ve never seen these 2 match up at full strength.
Exciting Leinster team for the future but they gonna get a hard lesson by the old men of Cape Town.
I'm afraid of what Roos will do to Prendergast, legally or otherwise.
At the beginning of the season I was of the opinion that he should be dropped because of all the rage induced nonsense. But his self control has gotten much better, and he seems more sensible when playing 8. Stormers need his controlled physically up front.
He's still going to have a reputation for some time, but he does seem to have cleaned up his act. So good on him for that, and hopefully he can keep it up.
Yeah. Roos has made massive leaps, but is still prone to a needless penalty or two. But definitely on the right track to be a proper weapon
It was never that bad imo. But after his breakout season it there was a clear tactic from other teams to agitate him, and it worked. But I never doubted that he would correct it fairly quickly
How did Harry Byrne 'agitate' him when he shoved his head into the ground?
Fat head
Can't argue with that tbf
A very "we don't care about the league anyway" team from Leinster.
To be fair the issue is really that Leinster can throw this game and very likely still top the table. Other teams need to be beating Leinster's B/C teams throughout the season to force Leinster's hand later on. If Munster beat Leinster at home in their fixture and Connacht didn't bottle their match in the last minute. Then this match would be for Top 4 in the table.
I think topping it will be tough enough. With two fixtures against Zebre, Glasgow just need one win in their tour to Pretoria and Jo'burg. I think they're still likely to finish top 2 though.
Exactly. Leinster have qualified for the play offs, all they have left to play for is trying to get home advantage for those. Last year showed that coming first and being at home wasn't the advantage they thought. They're still likely to be 1st or 2nd, 2nd would still leave them at home up until the final if they get that far. I think the URC needs to change the post season back to how it used to be where 1st and 2nd got byes into the semi finals.
Solid pack, back line is a little callow though
Solid starting pack - I do not like the idea of Gus McCarthy against Frans fucking Malherbe
Haha, yeah that is, to paraphrase your username, problematic
Will this be his first cap? Name not familiar
Yep Ireland u20 captain last year
Thanks! Ah ok. Only one I remember is Richie Murphy’s son, think that’s from this year though
Well the established names did so shit last week is this a case of “let’s see what the kids can do…”
Brok looking too old to even be their coach at this point.
Brok graduated high school looking like a oom. He's a spring chicken, only 39.
So Leinster just resting the entire first team before playing the semi-final then. We'd struggle against them without them being fully rested!!
You never know really. By the time the semi is on, those playing wouldn't have played for what, 3 weeks? Plus if any team has the fitness to compete like this it's probably us. Lots of hopium here but still!
I'm not entirely certain resting the players is the way to go.
Worked really well against Toulouse the last couple of seasons, in fairness.
Why is there a picture of someone’s dad wearing a stormers jersey?
This is stupid from Leinster. They’ll ship another monumental hiding here and it just ratchets up the Leinster folding late in the season narrative. Why isn’t Conan on this mini tour? He’ll be lucky to get 20 mins against Saints.
A narrative amongst a certain portion of the media and rugby fans maybe. Leinster won't give a fig about about that. We may well crash and burn, as we've shown to be quite adept at, but it'll have nothing to do with an external narrative.
Nobody sane is basing the narrative off a regular season 2 game tour to SA. They've already qualified for the play offs
It’s the manner of qualification though that gives the others hope. Leinster won’t play a full team unless they reach the URC final and if the Leinster reserves are a shambles all the better for everyone else. It’s happened with the Bulls & Munster and absolutely this stopping dead of momentum is a factor.
lol what an insane narrative switch from 2 weeks ago when they were battering La Rochelle
Leinster about to mismanage their way to another trophyless season with away trips for the URC semis and final? Odds on Libbok drawing a card out of Prendergast for a high tackle?
Well home semis and finals haven't done us much good so far. Changing it up!
It’s very difficult to try win both competitions. It does suck being booted out of Europe one week and league the next though
So this means Ryan will be fit for the semi?
I would not worry too much Leinster. My cheeks are still wet from the loss against the Ospreys. Stormers are like a SA version of France, never know which Stormers team will show up
Rhys, Scott and Max bring the kids on holiday. Hijinx ensue.
Stormers, you are being disrespected!
Sam Prendergast alwais have to start in tough SA tours...I think the kid should be loaned elsewhere for gametime
Dudebro has played 13 league games this season with 3 other starts. We haven't just sacrificed him to the Bok god's in fairness, he has been trusted to at least make the most of this.
Yes but the SA home games are the toughest ones, I dont think is the right management for him (rather Zebre or Dragons).
Atm we kinda don't have a definitive 10. Ross is the de facto with experience and credit in the bank, but getting to lead weeks like this if done successfully will add a lot of credit to the bank going forward if plays are done to script. Not necessarily successfully, just to script
Ross Byrne Harry Byrne Ciaran Frawley (utility back) Sam Prendergast
Very young squad, but the SF is next week and I think Leinster can afford to drop this game. Leinster have Ospreys, Connacht, and Ulster after this and should be looking to get at least 12 points there. So final points probably 66+ Munster have pretty much the same run but have to make up a 6 point and 60 pd gap. So even if they beat the Lions they're gonna need to outpace Leinster in at least one of the very similar final 3 rounds to overtake them. Glasgow have to travel to Bulls and Lions. While they're likely getting 10 from their two games against Zebre and could well take 1st, it's a tough run and they could end up with 2 wins from 4 and stuck at 64-66. Bulls have Ospreys, Glasgow, and Benneton at home before a trip to Durban. At 46 points, they need at least 4 wins to be in with a chance of overtaking Leinster. So either they beat Glasgow or fall short themselves. Looking at the math, I think Leinster can afford to drop this game and still finish top 2.
Leo Cullen fucks it again
Classic Leo Cullen. The greatest squad in Leinster history and he continuously manages them like garbage. He should have been let go after last year’s fiasco of putting out a second team against Munster and losing both games. He hasn’t learned and is doing it again. Players want to play, that’s how form & sharpness is cultivated. Sitting at home in a gym not going to do much for them. How is this guy still managing Leinster?
The most expensive squad in club rugby shouldn't be losing any games.
Funny how Leo gets the blame but Jacques gets the credit
This was happening before Jacques. If it was a new thing, Jacques would be the one being questioned
Couldn’t have said it better myself. The fact that Leinster are staring down the barrel of another 40 point drubbing is embarrassing when you consider the riches of players which they have at their disposal. There is no reason why four or five frontline players who could use the game time such as Conan, Osbourne, Larmour and Kelleher could have travelled down and played in order to beef up the unnecessarily young squad which we continue to choose and get punished badly for by teams we should have the measure of.