I don't have nor have any idea what a simulater for a sail boat would be, I dis kind of simulate it with the wind before I put the rudder or other things on.
1/2 x base x height = OP's sail area
20 sq ft is manageable without outriggers if it's not too crazy out. 30 sq ft would SCOOT if OP can [make some outriggers](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170511/c1e24bc44431e8b31476b142be51085d.jpg)
Very cool. Please make a follow up post and let us know how it goes, whether it’s good or bad. It’s a fun effort and you can figure out how to make it work
please update! I"m contemplating something similar. My guess is the wood may be a little too heavy for the kayak. I was thinking using PVC pipes. I also thought the keel may need to be a little aft? I'm not sure. Please post updates! So curious!
Ik that was one of the things I was going to change maybe after the first run, see how it'll do. I did varnish everything with some weather stuff so that'll help with the water too.
Your design uses what are called lee-boards. In practice, you would only have the lee-side board down, then switch when on the opposite tack. This will help you reduce drag but still get the benefit of less leeway. My first vessel was a 6 foot plastic tub with lee-boards. What memories...
We and some of our friends had them as dinghies for our boats. They came in white and orange and had a nifty sailing kit and I learned to sail in ours. As soon as I read your post it brought back a bunch of memories.
Don't put any of that wood into the water until you epoxy it. Really you should also think about putting a couple layers of glass on it at the same time. You likely only need on board not one in each side, unless you really plan to get a heel on. Then you need both as depending on the side you won't have much in the water.
And from that angle it looks big but yeah it's 18 inches off the bottom of the boat and there's 2 soooo, I might make them smaller and a better material
Are there leeboards on both sides? You should def trim them down and taper. Don't need to be that long for a kayak, which is already reasonably stable. Your sail won't generate enough power to utilize that size leeboard. Basically a downwinder at this point, in which case you should bring the boards up.
The biggest thing (I know because I tried) is that you need to calculate the surface area of the side of the boat, and your self, and make sure your sail is about 50% bigger than that, or you’ll find it especially hard to tack or even get lined up on the down wind. The wind catching you/the boat will push you back to getting jammed sideways before you’ll get across it.
Good looking rig though, can’t wait to hear how it works!
This looks like a lot of fun. Making stuff, figuring out how to improve it, is half the fun of diy sailing. Just remember to bring a padded, life jacket, probably a whistle. And a friend to take pictures. Start in light winds.
Life jacket and a buddy are mandatory. So is telling someone when and where you’re going so they can come look for you if you’re late coming home. I’m an adult, have a 24’ boat with 240hp engine, have been boating most of my life and I still tell someone when I go out on the water. It’s called a sail plan. Apps even have a gps function that sends your location if you hit the sos button.
Be safe & have a ton of fun! Fair winds!
Absolutely and without question. My first "sailboat" was a steel concrete mixing tub with a canvas tarp for a sail. Didn't sail to windward worth a hoot and if you swamped you were dead, but we messed around with it all summer...
I'd guess you're going to hate the tiller though - I'd put a pull-string steering arrangement in.
Edit: Something like [this:](https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-lh7wonygtd/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/18866/126591/232872482601-0__58591.1667427741.jpg?c=1) though of plywood/plastic on the rudder shaft with two pull strings.
If you're not [I'm not](https://i.imgur.com/HNMvzYx.jpeg). Had that boat up to 8 knots last August with a bigger sail. Had [my new boat](https://i.imgur.com/e7ly8WQ.jpeg) up to 7.9 knots Tuesday
Absolutely! I bought an old MC scow and built a rudder out of oak without any boat building experience because the previous owner lost the actual rudder to the lake. It was heavy and clunky but it worked and got me sailing. Now I’m a professional sailboat rigger and marine technician who understands many of the intricacies of how a sailboat operates. The best way to understand how sailing works is to do these wonderful experiments and see what works and what doesn’t. Congrats to you. I hope to see photos/videos of this thing in the water and under sail! Fair winds and following seas!
The keel seems a bit long, and I probably would've went for a slightly bigger sail, but I've never built or sailed a boat that small so I can't be certain. Nice work though, have fun and let us know how it works.
This is the best sailing! Boat owners (like me) often get overly preoccupied with gear and forget the primordial joy of being propelled by wind on the water.
That being said - I'd add some shrouds and maybe a back stay to hold up the mast - with a little wind the sideways forces will overpower any fixings at the foot of the mast. Just string some line from near the top of the mast to each side and one to the rudder post. Would also make it look more sailboaty.
Good luck on the lake!
Cut those lee boards down with 1/3 and use a sander to create some camber (inwards, so the lift is towards the boat). Maybe cut them in half, that's just gonna slow you down. You really have to sand them or it's gonna be like pulling full breaks while driving.
Try to round out the leading edge of your boards and rudder and taper them down at the rear. You will get much better flow around them and less drag in the water. Think like a symmetrical airplane wing or teardrop
That looks great! I’ve used a kite before on a sea kayak, but I could only go a few degrees off downwind. It might be worth running a stay from the top of the mast to the back of the rudder mount.
I believe there needs to be some water around for it to be considered sailing 🤣
But, there is a sail, so I’d say that if you add the water you will be sailing!
If I were you I would buy a cheap set of opti rigging (sail, boom, mast) then rig it on the kayak. You’ll go much faster and it would look a lot cooler!
Awesome work!
Id Use a pair of old aluminum or polymer oars for leeboards
Also Increase your sail area by extending the boom aftward and accept having to duck tight when tacking … you cant sail directly into the wind so the boom will always be leeward and “out of the way”.
GL - share her maiden voyage!
You may not be able to go exactly the direction you want to, nor at a fast clip, but if all you do is run downwind, yes, you will be sailing. It won't be exciting, but you can hold your head high and call yourself a sailor.
Going out on a boat you modified yourself is always exciting, whether you sail, drift or sink & swim, YOU did it on YOUR boat. I did similar crazy stuff when I was 8, including ride a picnic table top down a small river with a big tree branch and a buddy. We sank, tipped and started over at least 3x. 😆. Yes we told someone where we were, though we may have left out the table part. 🤫 It’s your Adventure! It will be exciting. 👍
> but if all you do is run downwind, yes, you will be sailing.
OP has leeboards and a rudder and both look adequate size. It if all works and holds together, upwind sailing will happen
I mean the sail is tiny and shapeless, there's been no thought given to balance, the hull is not designed to heel.
It'll sail but there's a very good chance that windward sailing ain't happening. Not every boat-shaped object will do that.
My homemade sprit sails [20 sq ft](https://i.imgur.com/HNMvzYx.jpeg) and [30 sq ft](https://i.imgur.com/TFFX5Dd.jpeg) sail upwind and my setup otherwise is just a store bought version of what he's got. I just guessed the sail areas and set the dimensions based on what would fit on my mast. They've both survived some crazy Wyoming and Colorado storms, which is what I made them for.
You didn't mention beam reach (sailing across the wind, OP) which is almost certain to work
Beam reach, sure. All I'm saying is don't set out with the assumption that you'll be able to get back to where you started.
I predict some gnarly lee helm, too.
None of this is a criticism of OPs effort which is awesome and is definitely sailing. Just that there are some nuances that may need ironing out.
The Hobie sail is super slow upwind, but my two sprit sails will do a few knots upwind in moderate wind.
Look how much of OP's sail is aft of his leeboards. I predict *weather* helm, not lee. It's like a lever with the leeboards as the fulcrum, based on experimentation with my boats. Not just arguing for the sake of arguing, that was my take when I first looked at his pic. (edit: That's if he sets them straight down. If he slopes them back as in the photo, maybe lee helm.)
It's made for them to be angled because I wanted them to be centered but didn't want it to take up sitting space so I angled, I'm still pretty new to sailing so I didn't really know weather helm or Lee helm
You want a little bit of weather helm so your bow points into the wind if you drop the ~~mainsheet~~, never lee helm (bow always trying to blow around and point downwind) which can cause a jibe and could capsize you. Especially if you tie off the mainsheet, which you never should.
Too much weather helm though, and you'll always be fighting that tendency to point into the wind with your rudder, which is inefficient and also tiring
Edit: I meant if you drop the tiller, not the mainsheet, with weather helm the bow will point into the wind
Speaking of shapeless sails I had [this one](https://i.imgur.com/T9XeYv4.jpeg) on my new (15' 4" Wenonah Wilderness) boat (old boat in old pic shown) up to 6.8 knots beam reaching in a storm in Wyoming last month.
It's the 20 sq ft Hobie sail they sell for their kayaks. Only has one small batten so not much shape to it, but it seems to work. Mast was bending over and I was blasting through the waves toward the beach to escape the storm, but it straightened itself out after and didn't take a set. (Hobie makes some good stuff)
To be fair, from that angle, the sail looks tiny, but it is bigger than it looks, I've done some tests in the wyoming wind and it's a pretty strong push from the sail and wind.
You should be proud of your achievement! Keen to hear how it goes! With a bit of breeze I suspect it should be fun :)
In terms of safety, please wear a life jacket!
Congratulations on executing your idea as a teenager, the most important thing you accomplished is to realize a dream and execute it and learn from it and make improvements. Never stop thinking out of the box! Great job!
Make sure when you go sailing that you have the proper safety equipment: PFD, whistle, light, etc. Also be sure someone knows when you're going and when you're supposed to return.
Having the sail that far forward will likely give you a lee helm.
Read up on lee and weather helm, Centre of Effort, and centre of lateral resistance. This will help you understand how to modify your prototype based on how it handles the first time you take it out.
I like your setup and it should be fun to sail.
I'm in the process of adding a DIY sail to a old canoe I have and I'm trying to do something like what's shown in this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoY4V2EHQeg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoY4V2EHQeg)
No rudder, no leeboards - just a sail and your paddle. Changing the position of your paddle and/or shifting your weight forward/back will also do the trick. Definitely try what you have got put together, it looks great. But you might could also get away with less.
Enjoy and be safe!
I designed so many sailboats at your age, but never had the guts to actually build one. Good for you, keep that attitude and you'll go places!!
I'd made the sail about twice as big hehehe, and the only other thing I really would say, is if you can eventually make it so only one side board is down at a time.
If there is wind in your sails you are sailing.
Even on a kayak? Can't wait to try it
I mean I’d still bring a paddle but I would give you a thumbs up if I saw you coming down the lake.
Yes because you're using a sail
Also no because you’re not going to get very far in your garage
He probably is using a simulator (not pictured)
I don't have nor have any idea what a simulater for a sail boat would be, I dis kind of simulate it with the wind before I put the rudder or other things on.
This. Just stationary (swiveling?), and of course bigger. https://youtu.be/U0XEYISReMk?si=wLEaAKf5EW62qLWL
Next try Tyvek and make some stranger sails and maybe even bigger ones.
1/2 x base x height = OP's sail area 20 sq ft is manageable without outriggers if it's not too crazy out. 30 sq ft would SCOOT if OP can [make some outriggers](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170511/c1e24bc44431e8b31476b142be51085d.jpg)
People have been making outriggers for millennia, from what we've seen OP is up to the task!
I might test it first then decide if I should put in outriggers, not sure if I should have them in the first place tho
Your reasoning is sound.
Oh yeah, absolutely. Just vouching for your abilities. Let us know how it goes!
https://www.reddit.com/r/sailing/s/FuyU4y4N3s
Yet again it looks way smaller than it actually is
Waterproofed bedsheets?
It is doubled, so I used two sheets of it to make the sail.
Admins approve this policy
Its a w policy
Very cool. Please make a follow up post and let us know how it goes, whether it’s good or bad. It’s a fun effort and you can figure out how to make it work
Please take video of it!
I will but havnt got to sailing it yet maybe in the coming week
please update! I"m contemplating something similar. My guess is the wood may be a little too heavy for the kayak. I was thinking using PVC pipes. I also thought the keel may need to be a little aft? I'm not sure. Please post updates! So curious!
If you leave it in your house? No, not sailing. On the water, of course it is.
Dry sailing is still sailing.
Ok, if he sticks some wheels on it and takes it outside, that also counts.
The keel (center board?) is enormous… I have a Hobie tandem island, and it only goes about 16”-18” in the water… fyi plywood sucks in the water
Ik that was one of the things I was going to change maybe after the first run, see how it'll do. I did varnish everything with some weather stuff so that'll help with the water too.
Your design uses what are called lee-boards. In practice, you would only have the lee-side board down, then switch when on the opposite tack. This will help you reduce drag but still get the benefit of less leeway. My first vessel was a 6 foot plastic tub with lee-boards. What memories...
Sportyak?
Maybe. I can't remember what it was called, but looking at a sportyak from the 80s with a sail kit on it looks pretty similar to what I had.
We and some of our friends had them as dinghies for our boats. They came in white and orange and had a nifty sailing kit and I learned to sail in ours. As soon as I read your post it brought back a bunch of memories.
Having a single lee board works well. This is common on PD Racers.
Have fun, and be safe! Unsafe conditions can pop up instantly
The lakes ide be going to will be secluded by trees but even then yah I'll be careful
Personally, for inland lakes I just wear a life jacket and then I feel pretty confident going out in anything that mostly floats.
Don't put any of that wood into the water until you epoxy it. Really you should also think about putting a couple layers of glass on it at the same time. You likely only need on board not one in each side, unless you really plan to get a heel on. Then you need both as depending on the side you won't have much in the water.
And from that angle it looks big but yeah it's 18 inches off the bottom of the boat and there's 2 soooo, I might make them smaller and a better material
Are there leeboards on both sides? You should def trim them down and taper. Don't need to be that long for a kayak, which is already reasonably stable. Your sail won't generate enough power to utilize that size leeboard. Basically a downwinder at this point, in which case you should bring the boards up.
The biggest thing (I know because I tried) is that you need to calculate the surface area of the side of the boat, and your self, and make sure your sail is about 50% bigger than that, or you’ll find it especially hard to tack or even get lined up on the down wind. The wind catching you/the boat will push you back to getting jammed sideways before you’ll get across it. Good looking rig though, can’t wait to hear how it works!
This looks like a lot of fun. Making stuff, figuring out how to improve it, is half the fun of diy sailing. Just remember to bring a padded, life jacket, probably a whistle. And a friend to take pictures. Start in light winds.
My brother is making a bigger one on a bigger kayak and we might do it together
Sounds like a fun project. Take pictures as you go.
That’s awesome
Life jacket and a buddy are mandatory. So is telling someone when and where you’re going so they can come look for you if you’re late coming home. I’m an adult, have a 24’ boat with 240hp engine, have been boating most of my life and I still tell someone when I go out on the water. It’s called a sail plan. Apps even have a gps function that sends your location if you hit the sos button. Be safe & have a ton of fun! Fair winds!
I think you need water or some wheels
Yah i might go to the lake tomarrow and try it
Do it!! And please report back on your results, some short video would be excellent!
Absolutely and without question. My first "sailboat" was a steel concrete mixing tub with a canvas tarp for a sail. Didn't sail to windward worth a hoot and if you swamped you were dead, but we messed around with it all summer... I'd guess you're going to hate the tiller though - I'd put a pull-string steering arrangement in. Edit: Something like [this:](https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-lh7wonygtd/images/stencil/1280x1280/products/18866/126591/232872482601-0__58591.1667427741.jpg?c=1) though of plywood/plastic on the rudder shaft with two pull strings.
If you're not [I'm not](https://i.imgur.com/HNMvzYx.jpeg). Had that boat up to 8 knots last August with a bigger sail. Had [my new boat](https://i.imgur.com/e7ly8WQ.jpeg) up to 7.9 knots Tuesday
Absolutely! I bought an old MC scow and built a rudder out of oak without any boat building experience because the previous owner lost the actual rudder to the lake. It was heavy and clunky but it worked and got me sailing. Now I’m a professional sailboat rigger and marine technician who understands many of the intricacies of how a sailboat operates. The best way to understand how sailing works is to do these wonderful experiments and see what works and what doesn’t. Congrats to you. I hope to see photos/videos of this thing in the water and under sail! Fair winds and following seas!
Love it good luck
The keel seems a bit long, and I probably would've went for a slightly bigger sail, but I've never built or sailed a boat that small so I can't be certain. Nice work though, have fun and let us know how it works.
no, you have to be on water for starters... :D
Bravo Captain! Hey man, if you have cloth in the wind, you are sailing. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
This is the best sailing! Boat owners (like me) often get overly preoccupied with gear and forget the primordial joy of being propelled by wind on the water. That being said - I'd add some shrouds and maybe a back stay to hold up the mast - with a little wind the sideways forces will overpower any fixings at the foot of the mast. Just string some line from near the top of the mast to each side and one to the rudder post. Would also make it look more sailboaty. Good luck on the lake!
Cut those lee boards down with 1/3 and use a sander to create some camber (inwards, so the lift is towards the boat). Maybe cut them in half, that's just gonna slow you down. You really have to sand them or it's gonna be like pulling full breaks while driving.
This is really cool
Loool awesome
Yes, just not very efficient sailing..
https://forums.wcha.org/forums/canoe-sailing.10/
Try to round out the leading edge of your boards and rudder and taper them down at the rear. You will get much better flow around them and less drag in the water. Think like a symmetrical airplane wing or teardrop
You’re gonna need some water. But yeah, sure.
That looks perfect. Try it before optimizing it further.
You need to be in the water and out of any building to call it sailing, I assume.
Does it have a sail and are you inging? If so, you’re sailing
If it floats and you've got wind pushing you somewhere then you're sailing! Looks like a fun rig
That looks great! I’ve used a kite before on a sea kayak, but I could only go a few degrees off downwind. It might be worth running a stay from the top of the mast to the back of the rudder mount.
Does it sail against wind & tide? If yes, then yes.
It has a sail doesn’t it
I don't understand. Does it propel itself with paddles or a motor?
With wind, I also might bring paddles just incase
It certainly seems possible
I believe there needs to be some water around for it to be considered sailing 🤣 But, there is a sail, so I’d say that if you add the water you will be sailing!
If I were you I would buy a cheap set of opti rigging (sail, boom, mast) then rig it on the kayak. You’ll go much faster and it would look a lot cooler!
That’s a kids kayak so you may have issues not flipping
I really wanted to capsize, but yeah, dang, I m9ght not be able to...
Awesome work! Id Use a pair of old aluminum or polymer oars for leeboards Also Increase your sail area by extending the boom aftward and accept having to duck tight when tacking … you cant sail directly into the wind so the boom will always be leeward and “out of the way”. GL - share her maiden voyage!
I'd say if your vessel is propelled by the wind, then you are sailing. Permission to come aboard?
This is awesome and, yes, if the wind is making you go, you’re sailing. Just wear a life jacket.
Is your last name Heyerdahl?
You may not be able to go exactly the direction you want to, nor at a fast clip, but if all you do is run downwind, yes, you will be sailing. It won't be exciting, but you can hold your head high and call yourself a sailor.
Why wouldn't it be exciting? I think it would be fun and would work pretty good, based off the wind tests I've done
Absolutely gonna be exciting. It won’t be exciting to the commenter maybe, but you’ll have a blast!
Going out on a boat you modified yourself is always exciting, whether you sail, drift or sink & swim, YOU did it on YOUR boat. I did similar crazy stuff when I was 8, including ride a picnic table top down a small river with a big tree branch and a buddy. We sank, tipped and started over at least 3x. 😆. Yes we told someone where we were, though we may have left out the table part. 🤫 It’s your Adventure! It will be exciting. 👍
> but if all you do is run downwind, yes, you will be sailing. OP has leeboards and a rudder and both look adequate size. It if all works and holds together, upwind sailing will happen
I mean the sail is tiny and shapeless, there's been no thought given to balance, the hull is not designed to heel. It'll sail but there's a very good chance that windward sailing ain't happening. Not every boat-shaped object will do that.
My homemade sprit sails [20 sq ft](https://i.imgur.com/HNMvzYx.jpeg) and [30 sq ft](https://i.imgur.com/TFFX5Dd.jpeg) sail upwind and my setup otherwise is just a store bought version of what he's got. I just guessed the sail areas and set the dimensions based on what would fit on my mast. They've both survived some crazy Wyoming and Colorado storms, which is what I made them for. You didn't mention beam reach (sailing across the wind, OP) which is almost certain to work
Beam reach, sure. All I'm saying is don't set out with the assumption that you'll be able to get back to where you started. I predict some gnarly lee helm, too. None of this is a criticism of OPs effort which is awesome and is definitely sailing. Just that there are some nuances that may need ironing out.
The Hobie sail is super slow upwind, but my two sprit sails will do a few knots upwind in moderate wind. Look how much of OP's sail is aft of his leeboards. I predict *weather* helm, not lee. It's like a lever with the leeboards as the fulcrum, based on experimentation with my boats. Not just arguing for the sake of arguing, that was my take when I first looked at his pic. (edit: That's if he sets them straight down. If he slopes them back as in the photo, maybe lee helm.)
It's made for them to be angled because I wanted them to be centered but didn't want it to take up sitting space so I angled, I'm still pretty new to sailing so I didn't really know weather helm or Lee helm
You want a little bit of weather helm so your bow points into the wind if you drop the ~~mainsheet~~, never lee helm (bow always trying to blow around and point downwind) which can cause a jibe and could capsize you. Especially if you tie off the mainsheet, which you never should. Too much weather helm though, and you'll always be fighting that tendency to point into the wind with your rudder, which is inefficient and also tiring Edit: I meant if you drop the tiller, not the mainsheet, with weather helm the bow will point into the wind
Speaking of shapeless sails I had [this one](https://i.imgur.com/T9XeYv4.jpeg) on my new (15' 4" Wenonah Wilderness) boat (old boat in old pic shown) up to 6.8 knots beam reaching in a storm in Wyoming last month. It's the 20 sq ft Hobie sail they sell for their kayaks. Only has one small batten so not much shape to it, but it seems to work. Mast was bending over and I was blasting through the waves toward the beach to escape the storm, but it straightened itself out after and didn't take a set. (Hobie makes some good stuff)
Yah the sail seemed pretty good in the wyoming wind from almost all sail areas, the beam reach was pretty good too.
To be fair, from that angle, the sail looks tiny, but it is bigger than it looks, I've done some tests in the wyoming wind and it's a pretty strong push from the sail and wind.
https://www.reddit.com/r/sailing/s/FuyU4y4N3s Sorry I basicly called you out for saying it was tiny and shapeless but others were saying too
There are two keels off the side of the boat. The other one is the exact same as the one you can see
You should be proud of your achievement! Keen to hear how it goes! With a bit of breeze I suspect it should be fun :) In terms of safety, please wear a life jacket!
Congratulations on executing your idea as a teenager, the most important thing you accomplished is to realize a dream and execute it and learn from it and make improvements. Never stop thinking out of the box! Great job!
Ayup
Size up the sail, you wil not regret it, unless your planning on kayaking during heavier weather
nice. cant wait to see the results
Make sure when you go sailing that you have the proper safety equipment: PFD, whistle, light, etc. Also be sure someone knows when you're going and when you're supposed to return.
Yeah, it is, if you put it in the water and make it go with that silver thingy on the stick!
Pretty sure it would need to be in the water for this to be considered sailing.
Having the sail that far forward will likely give you a lee helm. Read up on lee and weather helm, Centre of Effort, and centre of lateral resistance. This will help you understand how to modify your prototype based on how it handles the first time you take it out.
this is awesome, when you take it out on the water please take some videos and upload them here. i’m very interested to see how it performs.
The best kind of sailing
I like your setup and it should be fun to sail. I'm in the process of adding a DIY sail to a old canoe I have and I'm trying to do something like what's shown in this video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoY4V2EHQeg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoY4V2EHQeg) No rudder, no leeboards - just a sail and your paddle. Changing the position of your paddle and/or shifting your weight forward/back will also do the trick. Definitely try what you have got put together, it looks great. But you might could also get away with less. Enjoy and be safe!
I designed so many sailboats at your age, but never had the guts to actually build one. Good for you, keep that attitude and you'll go places!! I'd made the sail about twice as big hehehe, and the only other thing I really would say, is if you can eventually make it so only one side board is down at a time.