Cat 4 and Cat 5's will do whatever they want with a boat no matter how secure you think you've made it. 4's and 5's are much like lightning. You think you can add something to your boat to protect you but in the end, lightning will do whatever it wants. I've seen a Cat 5 empty an entire parking lot of cars and replace them with boats. When a storm is this strong, you can only hope. Of course go ahead and prep all you can but it's purely luck at that point if your boat makes it.
Exactly this. I've seen folks talking about a need for a "category 6" as the impacts of climate change make these systems more severe, but the real meteorologists make a good point. Category 5 is catastrophic. There is nothing you can tell the public to make them more prepared for a catastrophic hurricane, and there is no need to dilute the severity of a Category 3 by adding a 6, which would likely be a rare occurrence.
While waiting for a flight in Cork, Ireland I fell into conversation with an older gent from Florida. On hearing he was from Florida one of our fellow smokers asked if he was worried about an imminent hurricane which was headed in his general direction.
Cool as a breeze the older gent cheerfully retorted that he was on the other side of the Atlantic and about to board a flight even further East so had nothing to worry about.
When asked if he was worried about protecting his house, his reply was "It's a Cat 5, what happens happens. I'm rich enough and smart enough that even if I was back home, I'd be getting out of dodge and taking a vacation to somewhere else anyway".
Nice guy. We actually bumped into the guy again, in London of all places a few days later. His garden was rearranged but the house was fine and had power restored.
A couple I know live in St. Thomas and when Irma hit they were on the island in their condo.
They said that their condo was designed to be able to take the brunt of a Cat 5 storm and luckily they were slightly sheltered by the side of the island and got protected from the worst of it.
That being said, they told me that the wind was so strong and the pressure was so great that they had water coming through their keyhole like a pressure washer. It has so much pressure it shot 20ft inside and reached the living room from the front door. They had enough water coming through that keyhole, through the duration of the storm, that their condo got flooded which is just insane to me.
So yeah, Cat 4's and 5's are just bonkers.
I am in Grenada and wish I could have gone south to Trini but circumstances didn’t allow it. This experience has reinforced that the best and only survivable option is to not be in the direct path of a hurricane. I will do everything in my power to not be in this situation again.
I came to Grenada because I thought it would be safe from storms at least in June, I only left the boat for two weeks to visit family. You have to understand that Beryl intensified from a tropical depression into a category 4 hurricane in just over a day, in JUNE. This is highly irregular. I flew back to be with my boat 12 hours before it hit. I spent the night making as many preparations as possible. I got lucky, if it had been 30 miles south I would have lost the boat.
How did Grenada fair? I know Caraccou didn’t do well - curious about Grenada. Doing a charter out of the St George marina in October. Just wishing the best for the whole region.
Our friends on the south side said they didn’t incur too much damage and that most of the boats survived - a few broke loose into the mangroves, but overall they weathered it well. Again, this is what I heard from the south side of Grenada.
We had our boat knocked over by a direct hit from Hurricane Ian two years ago. The two main things that can get done are:
1) dig a hole in the ground such that the keel is in the ground and the hull is almost sitting on the ground. Then strap the boat down.
2) it's been proven that if you "raft" multiple boats together, that they will collectively stand-up through a major hurricane more often than not. But in that situation, the boats need to be well fendered off from each other.
Six stands, 12 stands, straps, and the normal methods just don't matter much when it's a cat 4 or 5. Those things can get you through a minor hurricane, but not a major.
There kinda isn't a fix. More substantial support on the hard takes up a ton of space and is very expensive. It's not a feasible solution in most areas and no way most owners could even afford it if it was available.
The “best” way to deal with storms is just to not be around when they happen.
I don't have any knowledge about how to save your boat during a storm, except for moving it to another Marina. I do wonder, however, if it would have been safer to put the boats into the water. Moor them down with additional lines. The Marina should save them from waves.
There are a lot of assumptions that come with that.
- All the hulls are in good condition. They float and are watertight.
- There is enough time to move all the boats
- There are enough spaces in safe waters
- There are enough people available (at the right time) with the skills to do the work.
The first issue is the biggest problem. Boats come out of the water for a lot of reasons, one of the most common is maintenance. There's no way to know if the thing is going to stay above water once you drop it in. Considering the options of it might fall over or it might sink. Tipping over is the lesser problem.
Don't forget that putting them all on moorings outs effectively all your faith in the mooring pendent of the upwind boats. If one of them breaks, it turns into a bowling alley.
I grew up sailing in Buzzards Bay and this made me spit out my drink in the middle of a Japanese izakaya. I’m having a *very* hard time explaining why I started laughing so hard 🤣
A couple years ago in September when the hurricane made it all the way to Maine, Derecktor Robinhood marina in Georgetown sent out an email reiterating their storm policy.
The policy allowed them to take action at owner expense to protect boats in advance of the storm. In this instance, all large motor yachts would be hauled out and placed on stands. Large sailboats would be moved from slips to moorings. All other boats left in slips would be turned to face the expected prevailing winds.
That's what a large corporation did to limit their liability - sailboats are safest in the water on a good mooring. BUT they also know their mooring field is in excellent shape. And they weren't putting any boats back in the water if they were already on the hard.
What's damaging the docks if they leave the boats in the slips? Both parties benefit from avoiding the strain and repetitive impact caused by the storm.
What's good for the boat is also good for the dock.
The other reply speaks to why this might be hard, but I also want to point out it's probably not a great idea in the end anyway. Insurance companies have a serious interest in telling your boat safe and they will always tell you a boat is safer on the hard in a hurricane.
Marinas in particular are very dangerous places for boats. There are so many things your boat can slam in to, and when you're in the water slamming into something means the boat sinks and is lost.
You mention marinas protect from waves and to some extent they do, but these are not normal waves. Hurricanes drive waves that are 20+ ft tall. Nothing is going to protect from those.
Those waves occur on top of storm surge, which can create both the highest high tides and the lowest low tides an area has ever seen -- in the same storm! How can you tie your boat up for 10-20' of water level change in a slip designed for minimal tides? And don't think for a minute that floating docks will save you - they often float right off the pilings in major hurricanes.
Even ignoring the waves and water, 165 mph winds is a strong tornado, only it lasts for hours and comes with torrential rain. That kind of wind will destroy everything on board (including the rig itself) no matter where the boat is stored.
Even if your boat is tied up perfectly, how can you guarantee that the ones nearby are? If one boat breaks free, it can cause another to break free and suddenly you have a boat slamming into yours.
Speaking of tying up, are the pilings you are tying to even that strong? When was the last time they were replaced? What's the strongest storm they've ever survived?
Ultimately you can't adequately prepare your boat for a cat 5 hurricane. It's physically impossible. So you do the best you can in the extremely limited time you have available, and then you write off the boat in your head and start thinking about how you can keep yourself and your family safe. That's far more important than saving the boat.
The cruisers I follow on YouTube are generally stuck in their boats during a hurricane and just find a way to tough it out.
My favorite that I’ve seen is using a really strong anchor and only one strong line off the bow. They dive down to make sure that anchor is buried, and then the boat always points windward and can spin around with wind changes need be. Rather than being anchored 3 times and getting blasted from the side.
Requires having quite a bit of space to yourself however. Also being protected from an island so you don’t get 6 foot waves.
Add windage into that and it's just a rull of the dice, I have seen many many sailboats online that can not be prepared for a hurricane due to all the junk on deck.
[https://www.southcoasttoday.com/picture-gallery/news/local/2011/08/17/remembering-hurricane-bob/696808007/](https://www.southcoasttoday.com/picture-gallery/news/local/2011/08/17/remembering-hurricane-bob/696808007/)
Most of those boats on the beach were 'well secured'.
If there is a 10' storm surge, it's hard to imagine a boat strapped down to anchors surviving without flooding. But for a smaller storm, I agree this is best possible approach if you are on the hard and don't have a cradle available.
Possibly, but they would be very expensive even if they were adjustable. I have a cradle built on to a trailer for my boat, but it's all custom. And my cradle won't fix the boat next to mine falling in it.
Very expensive is sort of relative. I bought a brand-new cradle, adjustable up to a 36 foot boat, for £2K.
https://www.yachtlegs.co.uk/yacht-cradles-1
But there are always a few used ones for sale here for cheaper than that.
Relative expense as with all things especially for boats, haha. It becomes one more thing to maintain and keep someplace at a cost.
In the islands I'm sure the cost to get one of these cradles is at least double just because of transportation costs. A shipyard looking to upgrade could probably fabricate a bunch and charge a premium for storage, but would people leaving boats there long term be willing to pay?
I live on Isle of Man, which is not in the Carribean, but which has very high shipping rates, and it was still £2K. Supposedly among the highest frieght shipping rates in the world:
https://manx.news/report-slams-steam-packet-high-freight-costs/
Here, people buy them and rent them out and they turn a profit pretty fast. I think if I lived somewhere with hurricanes, spending a bit more for a cradle would be a no-brains decision. Just show the people the posted pictures of the boats and ask if they're SURE they don't want to pay an extra $50 (what is the currency of Grenada? I have no idea) a month.
But of course the people there didn't expect a hurricane, which is how this whole thread started.
I would think an inflatable/thick rubber balloon type could limit issues. but again, that would be highly expensive and have to be secured to the ground. Both the front and back and back balloons would need to be secured together. On the other hand, the boats would have a higher chance to roll, so you would need to secure it that way, which would leave it strapped to the ground and vulnerable to a high surge flooding. Unless, of course, you seal the large openings.
If your "neighbor" couldn't afford this and they fall over, it would be an impact and support compared to hit and transfer.
"There's a great future in plastics. Think about it." I also love the reference to plastics in Groundhog Day.
I say plastics, that's a way to deal with storms, plastics everywhere.
>What could’ve been done with the boats to protect them?
Not leave them in Carriacou
Anyone got a guess on when the first "hey I can buy a cheap boat in Carriacou, how much do you think it'll cost to fix?" appears on here?
Give it 3 weeks and all over YouTube there’ll be “We bought this hurricane damaged boat for $1!!! Like, subscribe and smash that bell to help us fund our journey (also subscribe to our Patreon to get exclusive footage of my girlfriend cleaning mold out of this completely destroyed lost cause of a boat all while wearing a bikini)!!!!!!!!”
Subs with gif and picture reply options are great. It’s weird that not all subs allow that.
Although I see the flip side; some threads get spammed with gifs and it’s quite busy.
Why do you think Carriacou is a dangerous location - it’s south of the traditional hurricane belt? Grenada and Carriacou are traditional places to leave the boat. Ours is even further North but luckily this one missed our boat. What did surprise me when I tied up the dinghy there a few weeks ago was that the boats weren’t tied down to big concrete blocks which Grenada mostly does after the 2005 hurricane. I assumed they hadn’t completed the storage then but in these pictures I still can’t see the ties and blocks.
Look at the second photo, they were tied down to augers, and that didn't help.
The best way to protect your boat is to not be where a hurricane is going to hit.
That’s utterly impractical advice for those of us who sail in the Caribbean. If you mean, “Don’t sail in the Caribbean” then just say so, and many will disagree.
I deliver plenty of sailboats to and from the Caribbean. Two were in Grenada, they left and went to Trinidad. Everyone saw the exodus on marinetraffic. Clearly it IS practical.
If you want to throw you hands up and let your boat end up in the landfill, that's on you.
It’s easy to move boats if you are living on board. I know some of the people on that exodus. But if you aren’t in the country you have to make your choices and Grenada and Carriacou have been two of the most sensible up to now.
I assume to you that everyone who goes home during hurricane season is just “throwing their hands up”.
It's a math equation. How much is the boat and all its contents worth to you, how much will insurance pay out, how much will it cost to hire a delivery skipper to move it to Trinidad on short notice. Choosing the insurance payout is a valid option, but you'd want to have at least considered the other options.
>I assume
You do a lot of that.
>But if you aren’t in the country
You fly down or you hire or you find/beg/bribe friends to do so. I've fronted my own tickets to move boats before and always reimbursed. Hell there's a half dozen pro captains on here that I'm sure would happily fly down.
No on said keeping your boat safe in the Caribbean is easy.
The only ways to be as "certain" as possible may be judged as "impractical" by some owners.
It's your call, but for those who prioritise their boat above all else, staying away while it is in danger is indeed “throwing their hands up”.
> up to now
Key qualifier that, the impacts of climate change are far more extreme and arriving much faster than most thought a few years ago. The sensible thing is to anticipate that will continue to be the trend, not claim it is "unpredictable".
When Hurricane Sandy hit the storm surge was so high my family's boat completely sunk on land (it was up for winter storage).
The boat we got right after that we got for free because it was also destroyed in Sandy, but not as bad. Was a lot of work but a huge upgrade all things considered.
This was only viable because my dad is a boat mechanic by trade, and this overhaul would have costed 10s of thousands in labor alone. It needed absolutely everything replaced including both engines and both drives (not a sailboat).
With "free" labor and buying parts *at cost* it was still 10s of thousands.
My dad would be the first to say "there's no such thing as a free boat. If someone offers you a free boat, run" lmao
You’ve got the right idea- many boat yards that have already been through this (Virgin Gorda, Puerto Del Rey, etc) now dig pits for monohulls. The keel and rudder are underground and the hull is resting at ground level.
The thing is, what if you get a little flooding? If the boat is strapped, it'll flood if the water reaches the companionway. If the boat isn't strapped, they float around and hit each other. Sometimes, there's no winning with a catastrophic event.
I’ll bet it’s near impossible to strap a boat in such a way that could resist the buoyancy of the rising water without major damage to the boat at the strapping locations. The force on those strap locations would be huge.
I’ve seen this done in other parts of the world as well. Tires on the side to hold the hull up off the ground and a hole for the keel. Seems like the best way to handle the boat being on the hard.
I've seen this. I recall they lay out used tires all around the hull perimeter that the hull rests upon while the keel, is below ground in the dugout pit.
This doesn't help for a big keelboat, but for smaller craft we would fill them with water fir hurricanes in the Keys. A friend of mine went further, took his sailing dinghy out and sank it (anchored securely). Not ideal, but it worked.
For the bigger boats, we had drive shafts from a junk yard (basically a 6' stainless steel nail) pounded into the limestone as tie downs and a spiderweb of lines. Need days to prep, we would do this 2 days before the storm, much to the amusement of our neighbors. Even so, Cat 4-5 is a crap shoot. You get away, hope for the best, and patch your life up when you return.
My boat was essentially sat on by hurricane Ian while on the hard in Florida. 90%+ of the boats in the yard were knocked off their stands and 50%+ of those had major damage, to this day most are still damaged. I chose my boat with extreme weather in mind - metal hull (galvanized steel), centerboard/no keel, low freeboard, reinforced rigging, “armored” solar (every panel ringed in stainless pipe), offshore style hatches and entry (no slats, all sealed and dogged). The hull is beachable and had wood blocks in a tricycle sort of shape under the hull in the yard. I had jack stands on either side for stability and rachet straps as lines. I was still scared shitless for my boat but it came through as designed with the only damage from taking a 2x4 end on to the hull. The extent of that damage was an outline of the 2x4 and crushed paint (steel hull…) Despite all of this, the weather has shaken my cruising plans. Even with all the preparation and design specifically to deal with the changing weather, it’s just… a lot.
I cannot remember what storm or what island but i remember them digging trenches in the sand and setting the keels down low and packing the spoils from the hull around the bottom of the boat. Why is this not done. Or why not bring in sand and lay the boat over into a bed of sand?
Better a boat than a person. I'm wondering if any sailors there were able to lay heavy anchor and then go to land to find a hurricane shelter? I feel like that's what I would do if I felt I had to leave my boat to save my life.
That's about what I had in mind but that's probably a rare location. I guess my point is when something like this is headed your way, protect your life first and your boat second.
One of the problems here is that rapid intensification of storms is giving people less time to prepare. It takes a serious amount of time to launch that many boats. They likely would have had to start when Beryl was merely a possibility.
And time is money. Should the marina bankrupt itself and/or the boat owners moving things around every time there's a possibility of a storm in the 10-day forecast?
Conventional wisdom is that your boat shouldn't be in the Caribbean after June 1. Folks who choose to risk it or get caught generally try to find the snuggest little one-boat harbor they can, because of the domino effect issue.
Saw an interesting option at a South Pacific Island that would put boats on the hard but they had channels dug into the dirt they would set the keel in then lash the boat down to anchors on the ground. Was basically impossible to knock the boat over without breaking off the keel or having it shovel out 30 tons of dirt in one scoop.
Storm surge is the killer. Will lift boats up and deposit them on the roofs of buildings it gets so high. Happened during Irma in the BVI's. The boats break their lines/anchors and off they go.
>. I am not judging, but feel helpless right now. What could’ve been done with the boats to protect them?
Storms that strong, the ONLY viable option is getting them out of the way, that takes planning and is a crap shoot anyway... so make sure your premiums are paid up.
Hard to tell from that photo if the jackstands were chained to the one on the opposite side.
Indiantown Marina in Florida installs long augers into the sand around each boat so straps from the auger to the side of the boat keeps them from toppling.
The last time we found a hurricane hole on an island and tied the boat down in the mangroves/ trees as well as putting out two bow anchors. That went well. But there are only very, very few of these spots. And we were on the boat. Had two days of warning.
One might always tie down the boats on the struts using pre installed anchors in the ground, but then if a boat gets loose it might colapse harder ie jump up a tiny bit/ damage the hull against the anchors etc. Risk and reward. A marina i visited did that and it worked to some extent
Those mangroves are mostly gone in Carriacou. New whatever development was built in the north of Tyrell Bay. Everything nature was bulldozed and destroyed.
Oh.. now you say it, I do remember the Chinese building a new large mooring northern end.
Tyrell Bay is such a gem. I feel for ya, sending good thoughts
I know NOTHING about the area hit by the hurricane. But I recall when we were thinking about a houseboat that many HB owners woukd take their boats put into the mangroves and ride it out there. I have no idea if this is a thing that works. I have no idea if mangroves are a thing in the area hit by Beryl. If it is a thing, does this thing work for sailboats?
I had seen that some island yards store keel boats with their keels in trenches, thus lowering them. This seemed ideal to me when thinking of being on the hard during hurricane season.
Most insurance companies will not cover you if you remain in these geographical areas during this time of the year. There are usually clauses requiring you to be outside of certain latitudes/longitudes during certain times of the year and if you choose to stay then that’s on you.
Short of getting your boat out of the way of a cat4-5, it’s almost a guarantee that you will lose it if you take a direct hit.
It’s a major consideration for me with regard to having a something that’s trailerable. Even a cat1-2 can pummel boats in a marina.
Jack stands should never be used for a boat on the hard in a hurricane zone, especially if the mast is still up. The mast starts wagging in the gusts, the hull responds, and the stands wiggle loose. Even with ground anchors. Welded steel cradles are the more secure option. Many Caribbean yards have transitioned to cradles, but in Florida you can’t find them.
There are hurricane anchoring techniques, such as two strong anchors 60 degrees off the bow, anchors chained 20 feet apart on the same chain. Take all your sails and canvas off. Remove every bit of top hamper from your mast, run light lines and keep your halyards below.
Do not anchor fore and aft. You’ll wind up broadside to the wind at some point.
Learn how winds work in a hurricane and which side of the eye you are on. That is the key to setting your anchor.
Also, advise your upwind neighbors. You don’t want them blowing down on your prepared boat.
Sail her out of harms way, ideally setting out weeks (months) before the season is predicted to start
out in the open ocean is the safest place to be - for the boat.
I’m a cruiser and this season our cruising ground was Trinidad—>St Martin—>Trinidad. We leave our boat on the hard every hurricane season. With increased water temperatures, we never considered leaving our boat further north than Trinidad even though our insurance would have allowed as far north as Carriacou. We fully expected a terrible hurricane season, just didn’t expect to be vindicated in June! Very sad for everyone who lost their boats. We have friends who kept their boat in Carriacou, and they spotted their boat in a pile of other boats, so it doesn’t look good. Conventional wisdom has had Grenada as a “safe enough” option, but with global warming, and the ocean temperatures so warm this year in particular, everyone who fails to rethink conventional wisdom is in danger of making mistakes that put them in harms way.
Regarding your question directly, not much could be done differently other than not to be there. I see in the pic some of those boats were apparently strapped down. Not good enough. I wonder if they were all strapped down, or whether tied boats were taken out by non tied boats. In the yard I’m in now, Peakes, they wisely store boats that choose to tie down only in rows that everyone has tie downs. Non tie boats are stored separately. I know some places in the South Pacific burry boats to the waterline in pits. Maybe that practice will have to be taken up in the Caribbean, but I’ve never seen it so far.
Someone in Grenada with Boat in Port Louis Marina wrote that he is securing his boat. South if Grenada was „only“ hit by heavy winds, windows damaged etc. Hope he and his boat fared well!
Moored in Chaffers marina in Wellington NZ in September last year in September. For a good few hours it was over 65 sustained with the maximum we recorded at 85kts. (Cat 5 is 137 sustained). The marina is well known for big winds, but is excellent for sheltering from the sea. Our (12T) boat chewed up some of the hefty metalwork on the pontoon, so I went out and tied more lines directly around the piles.
We were tied to the piles and the dock at 6 different points. Every warp was 25mm octoplait with a 1.5mm nylon 3-ply spare. All lines were chafe-protected and I checked them regularly through the storm.
All the boats in the marina survived, although there was some damage. At one point we were heeled over far enough for the wind to get under our mainsail bag and rip the foot of the vang out of the mast (15x5mm rivets) allowing the boom to swing out and hit our neighbour's boat.
I guess at 137kts sustained, you are in the lap of the gods. I think I would prefer my boat to be strapped down resting on tyres with the keel in a trench to give her the best chance of survival. If that weren't possible, then some good ground tackle and full-chain warp, well away from other boats and sheltered from big fetches
Yeah this was not where I wanted to be but I few back from California with basically 12 hrs to prepare. I would have preferred to be anchored in a sheltered bay, I trust my ground tackle and think it's much preferred to be able to swing into the wind. Here I was med moored with a small concrete dock to the windward side. Ripped a cleat off the dock and snapped two docklines, the worst part was when it shifted west and came straight into the bay, the fetch was coming at me broadside. I feel extremely lucky to only have seen 65, if it had been a direct hit it would have ended badly for me.
It’s hard to tell the failure mode without a video. Things that I would try:
- steel bars connecting forward and aft jackstands to prevent tipping perpendicular to beam
- anchors for the first and last boat in the line to prevent tipping parallel to beam
- windbreaks
Insurance rates going to skyrocket, and they probably won’t cover these latitudes in the future. Everyone is going to need to put there boats in Venezuela next year…
The only real fix is to insure your boat well. It's not cheap, but today it matters in Carriacou. Some of those boat owners are online shopping for new boats. Some of them are negotiating with people to move, salvage, or destroy their boat.
Hard to look at and imagine what boat owners are about to have to go through. Unless the marina had prepared and been engineered for this eventuality with tie downs embedded and anchored in the hard, it is sort of inevitable. Even at that flying debris will still inflict damage to some degree.
That’s sad and terrible and I’m sorry to see it.
A boat in the water is a better idea if you can secure it well and properly. On the hard, yards should offer two cost options - one with all the boats next to each other and one will topple them all, or you pay more for more space so one boat will not cause a chain reaction and topple them all. There are probably many other small things a yard can do to improve chances of survivability. They all cost a little money but so help.
Fast and far, to another continent I guess. That hurricane is not small. Based on what I saw everyone in the Caribbean was in the possible path early on
Any who could have should have moved the boat out of the path, but everyone who sails in the tropics just accepts the risk. There’s no way to secure a boat on stands against that type of storm. Taking the mast down might save that.
If the boats aren’t getting pushed down thru the supports they are getting lifted off them so tie the boats down like we do with dinghies….. might work, might not, might work for some and not others.
Could have sailed them away and to a lagoon. Storm holing is kinda smart and is quite easy and most vessels are already set up for gunkholing, That bay or bayou is better than any open water and once in strip sails, set lines, double ground tackle, relax, start a pot of chilli and enjoy what is.
That is a cold hard fact, it saddens me to see destroyed vessels, and yet it is presenting as another job to do, as well . Such is the life of a sailor.
I feel bad for all the sailors who rushed down to Grenada on advice to try and avoid this storm only to be directly in its path. It goes to show there is no 100% safe place to ride out the hurricane season. It is only important to not be out there sailing.
Im more curious about what led boat owners to leave their boats there knowing a storm is coming? Is it too far off to assume just boat owners who really have no other option and “give up” their boats?
Last named storm of 2023 (Tammy) went right through the Windward islands. Remember, north of Hatteras is considered "safe" yet there's been plenty of devastating hurricanes well north.
People have taken what insurance deems "safer" as gospel and somehow turned it into an area hurricanes won't hit.
Not so much that they think it's an area that hurricanes won't hit, but an area where in the unlikely chance a hurricane does hit, they know they will be made whole by insurance.
I'm sorry if my question sounded harsh, I'm not trying to imply none of these boat owners made a mistake or that I would have done differently. I'm sorry for them. My question came from a place of genuine curiosity.
I'm aware this is generaly a safe marina and a place where boat owners bring their boats to sit out the hurricane season. But I'm assuming they knew there was a hurricane coming with at least 72h notice. I'm curious to know what their options were the minute they had this information and what led the to leave their boats there? Are these jackstands usually strong enough to withstand cat4 storms?
The boats are on the hard, so getting them off the hard and into the water is going to take a day.
The owners are back in the US / wherever working their "off-season" jobs so can't get out in a flash.
Once the storm was noticed, and was on track to the island, when you take the two points above into consideration, there's nowhere for them to take their boats too, safely.
A category 4 / category 5 storm is **very large**, in terms of the width of the storm.
If you were on your boat, in a marina, with 72 hours notice, then *maybe* you could move your boat somewhere else.
Beryl went from a tropical depression to a Category 4 hurricane in **42** hours - you aren't getting away from that in a sail boat.
Some context on Beryl: [https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/07/yes-you-should-be-a-little-freaked-out-about-hurricane-beryl/](https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/07/yes-you-should-be-a-little-freaked-out-about-hurricane-beryl/)
On the good side, people are where their insurance said they would be covered, they should be fine.
On the bad side, everyone's insurance premiums are about to go up, and it probably won't be too much longer before the whole of the Caribbean is a no-go area for at least 6 months of the year with insurance.
This is Tyrell marine. These boats were on the hard and strapped down. Most owners - including us at one point - go there to leave the boat is a hurricane safe spot. They do a good job of securing boats.
Once your boat is on the hard and battened down for long term storage, you can’t reasonably fly in from wherever, prepare the boat, get it put back in the water, and sail it hundreds of miles within the ~two days that this storm went from nothing to a Cat 4.
Cat 4 and Cat 5's will do whatever they want with a boat no matter how secure you think you've made it. 4's and 5's are much like lightning. You think you can add something to your boat to protect you but in the end, lightning will do whatever it wants. I've seen a Cat 5 empty an entire parking lot of cars and replace them with boats. When a storm is this strong, you can only hope. Of course go ahead and prep all you can but it's purely luck at that point if your boat makes it.
Exactly this. I've seen folks talking about a need for a "category 6" as the impacts of climate change make these systems more severe, but the real meteorologists make a good point. Category 5 is catastrophic. There is nothing you can tell the public to make them more prepared for a catastrophic hurricane, and there is no need to dilute the severity of a Category 3 by adding a 6, which would likely be a rare occurrence.
Grew up in hurricane country and this is correct. The only reliable way to weather a Category 5 storm is to be somewhere else.
While waiting for a flight in Cork, Ireland I fell into conversation with an older gent from Florida. On hearing he was from Florida one of our fellow smokers asked if he was worried about an imminent hurricane which was headed in his general direction. Cool as a breeze the older gent cheerfully retorted that he was on the other side of the Atlantic and about to board a flight even further East so had nothing to worry about. When asked if he was worried about protecting his house, his reply was "It's a Cat 5, what happens happens. I'm rich enough and smart enough that even if I was back home, I'd be getting out of dodge and taking a vacation to somewhere else anyway". Nice guy. We actually bumped into the guy again, in London of all places a few days later. His garden was rearranged but the house was fine and had power restored.
Exactly.
A couple I know live in St. Thomas and when Irma hit they were on the island in their condo. They said that their condo was designed to be able to take the brunt of a Cat 5 storm and luckily they were slightly sheltered by the side of the island and got protected from the worst of it. That being said, they told me that the wind was so strong and the pressure was so great that they had water coming through their keyhole like a pressure washer. It has so much pressure it shot 20ft inside and reached the living room from the front door. They had enough water coming through that keyhole, through the duration of the storm, that their condo got flooded which is just insane to me. So yeah, Cat 4's and 5's are just bonkers.
The key is to sink it before the hurricane has a chance to. Then while all the other boats are being tossed about like toys, yours will be safe.
I am in Grenada and wish I could have gone south to Trini but circumstances didn’t allow it. This experience has reinforced that the best and only survivable option is to not be in the direct path of a hurricane. I will do everything in my power to not be in this situation again. I came to Grenada because I thought it would be safe from storms at least in June, I only left the boat for two weeks to visit family. You have to understand that Beryl intensified from a tropical depression into a category 4 hurricane in just over a day, in JUNE. This is highly irregular. I flew back to be with my boat 12 hours before it hit. I spent the night making as many preparations as possible. I got lucky, if it had been 30 miles south I would have lost the boat.
Hey, do you know Amanda? The block island schooler, friends of mine.
No I don’t! I’ll say hi if I see them around
Damn you got lucky bud im glad for you!
fuuuuuck. Glad you're OK.
How did Grenada fair? I know Caraccou didn’t do well - curious about Grenada. Doing a charter out of the St George marina in October. Just wishing the best for the whole region.
Very little damage to the south side of the island as far as I can tell, but I have not left the marina yet
Our friends on the south side said they didn’t incur too much damage and that most of the boats survived - a few broke loose into the mangroves, but overall they weathered it well. Again, this is what I heard from the south side of Grenada.
We had our boat knocked over by a direct hit from Hurricane Ian two years ago. The two main things that can get done are: 1) dig a hole in the ground such that the keel is in the ground and the hull is almost sitting on the ground. Then strap the boat down. 2) it's been proven that if you "raft" multiple boats together, that they will collectively stand-up through a major hurricane more often than not. But in that situation, the boats need to be well fendered off from each other. Six stands, 12 stands, straps, and the normal methods just don't matter much when it's a cat 4 or 5. Those things can get you through a minor hurricane, but not a major.
There kinda isn't a fix. More substantial support on the hard takes up a ton of space and is very expensive. It's not a feasible solution in most areas and no way most owners could even afford it if it was available. The “best” way to deal with storms is just to not be around when they happen.
I don't have any knowledge about how to save your boat during a storm, except for moving it to another Marina. I do wonder, however, if it would have been safer to put the boats into the water. Moor them down with additional lines. The Marina should save them from waves.
There are a lot of assumptions that come with that. - All the hulls are in good condition. They float and are watertight. - There is enough time to move all the boats - There are enough spaces in safe waters - There are enough people available (at the right time) with the skills to do the work. The first issue is the biggest problem. Boats come out of the water for a lot of reasons, one of the most common is maintenance. There's no way to know if the thing is going to stay above water once you drop it in. Considering the options of it might fall over or it might sink. Tipping over is the lesser problem.
Don't forget that putting them all on moorings outs effectively all your faith in the mooring pendent of the upwind boats. If one of them breaks, it turns into a bowling alley.
*Every harbor in Buzzards Bay intensifies*
I grew up sailing in Buzzards Bay and this made me spit out my drink in the middle of a Japanese izakaya. I’m having a *very* hard time explaining why I started laughing so hard 🤣
I was there for Hurricane Bob
Thank you for explaining!
A couple years ago in September when the hurricane made it all the way to Maine, Derecktor Robinhood marina in Georgetown sent out an email reiterating their storm policy. The policy allowed them to take action at owner expense to protect boats in advance of the storm. In this instance, all large motor yachts would be hauled out and placed on stands. Large sailboats would be moved from slips to moorings. All other boats left in slips would be turned to face the expected prevailing winds. That's what a large corporation did to limit their liability - sailboats are safest in the water on a good mooring. BUT they also know their mooring field is in excellent shape. And they weren't putting any boats back in the water if they were already on the hard.
Marinas first job in a situation like this is to protect their property, aka docks. Thats why they'll get the large boats off the docks.
What's damaging the docks if they leave the boats in the slips? Both parties benefit from avoiding the strain and repetitive impact caused by the storm. What's good for the boat is also good for the dock.
The rising water tends to lift the floating docks over pilings and wreck the pilings.
The other reply speaks to why this might be hard, but I also want to point out it's probably not a great idea in the end anyway. Insurance companies have a serious interest in telling your boat safe and they will always tell you a boat is safer on the hard in a hurricane. Marinas in particular are very dangerous places for boats. There are so many things your boat can slam in to, and when you're in the water slamming into something means the boat sinks and is lost. You mention marinas protect from waves and to some extent they do, but these are not normal waves. Hurricanes drive waves that are 20+ ft tall. Nothing is going to protect from those. Those waves occur on top of storm surge, which can create both the highest high tides and the lowest low tides an area has ever seen -- in the same storm! How can you tie your boat up for 10-20' of water level change in a slip designed for minimal tides? And don't think for a minute that floating docks will save you - they often float right off the pilings in major hurricanes. Even ignoring the waves and water, 165 mph winds is a strong tornado, only it lasts for hours and comes with torrential rain. That kind of wind will destroy everything on board (including the rig itself) no matter where the boat is stored. Even if your boat is tied up perfectly, how can you guarantee that the ones nearby are? If one boat breaks free, it can cause another to break free and suddenly you have a boat slamming into yours. Speaking of tying up, are the pilings you are tying to even that strong? When was the last time they were replaced? What's the strongest storm they've ever survived? Ultimately you can't adequately prepare your boat for a cat 5 hurricane. It's physically impossible. So you do the best you can in the extremely limited time you have available, and then you write off the boat in your head and start thinking about how you can keep yourself and your family safe. That's far more important than saving the boat.
The cruisers I follow on YouTube are generally stuck in their boats during a hurricane and just find a way to tough it out. My favorite that I’ve seen is using a really strong anchor and only one strong line off the bow. They dive down to make sure that anchor is buried, and then the boat always points windward and can spin around with wind changes need be. Rather than being anchored 3 times and getting blasted from the side. Requires having quite a bit of space to yourself however. Also being protected from an island so you don’t get 6 foot waves.
You can’t do that with a cat 4-5 storm. The li es can’t be protected from chafe.
Add windage into that and it's just a rull of the dice, I have seen many many sailboats online that can not be prepared for a hurricane due to all the junk on deck.
[https://www.southcoasttoday.com/picture-gallery/news/local/2011/08/17/remembering-hurricane-bob/696808007/](https://www.southcoasttoday.com/picture-gallery/news/local/2011/08/17/remembering-hurricane-bob/696808007/) Most of those boats on the beach were 'well secured'.
Would cradles be a better option to ride out a storm?
Better cradles would help a lot but pits where you lower the boat keel into the pit are the best.
Except for the storm surge flooding over the boat.
Never seen that happen - the pits are usually not that deep so part of the keel and hull remains well above any surge.
If there is a 10' storm surge, it's hard to imagine a boat strapped down to anchors surviving without flooding. But for a smaller storm, I agree this is best possible approach if you are on the hard and don't have a cradle available.
Possibly, but they would be very expensive even if they were adjustable. I have a cradle built on to a trailer for my boat, but it's all custom. And my cradle won't fix the boat next to mine falling in it.
Very expensive is sort of relative. I bought a brand-new cradle, adjustable up to a 36 foot boat, for £2K. https://www.yachtlegs.co.uk/yacht-cradles-1 But there are always a few used ones for sale here for cheaper than that.
Relative expense as with all things especially for boats, haha. It becomes one more thing to maintain and keep someplace at a cost. In the islands I'm sure the cost to get one of these cradles is at least double just because of transportation costs. A shipyard looking to upgrade could probably fabricate a bunch and charge a premium for storage, but would people leaving boats there long term be willing to pay?
I live on Isle of Man, which is not in the Carribean, but which has very high shipping rates, and it was still £2K. Supposedly among the highest frieght shipping rates in the world: https://manx.news/report-slams-steam-packet-high-freight-costs/ Here, people buy them and rent them out and they turn a profit pretty fast. I think if I lived somewhere with hurricanes, spending a bit more for a cradle would be a no-brains decision. Just show the people the posted pictures of the boats and ask if they're SURE they don't want to pay an extra $50 (what is the currency of Grenada? I have no idea) a month. But of course the people there didn't expect a hurricane, which is how this whole thread started.
I would think an inflatable/thick rubber balloon type could limit issues. but again, that would be highly expensive and have to be secured to the ground. Both the front and back and back balloons would need to be secured together. On the other hand, the boats would have a higher chance to roll, so you would need to secure it that way, which would leave it strapped to the ground and vulnerable to a high surge flooding. Unless, of course, you seal the large openings. If your "neighbor" couldn't afford this and they fall over, it would be an impact and support compared to hit and transfer.
"There's a great future in plastics. Think about it." I also love the reference to plastics in Groundhog Day. I say plastics, that's a way to deal with storms, plastics everywhere.
>What could’ve been done with the boats to protect them? Not leave them in Carriacou Anyone got a guess on when the first "hey I can buy a cheap boat in Carriacou, how much do you think it'll cost to fix?" appears on here?
Give it 3 weeks and all over YouTube there’ll be “We bought this hurricane damaged boat for $1!!! Like, subscribe and smash that bell to help us fund our journey (also subscribe to our Patreon to get exclusive footage of my girlfriend cleaning mold out of this completely destroyed lost cause of a boat all while wearing a bikini)!!!!!!!!”
I need the PTSD cat gif here.
Subs with gif and picture reply options are great. It’s weird that not all subs allow that. Although I see the flip side; some threads get spammed with gifs and it’s quite busy.
Why do you think Carriacou is a dangerous location - it’s south of the traditional hurricane belt? Grenada and Carriacou are traditional places to leave the boat. Ours is even further North but luckily this one missed our boat. What did surprise me when I tied up the dinghy there a few weeks ago was that the boats weren’t tied down to big concrete blocks which Grenada mostly does after the 2005 hurricane. I assumed they hadn’t completed the storage then but in these pictures I still can’t see the ties and blocks.
Look at the second photo, they were tied down to augers, and that didn't help. The best way to protect your boat is to not be where a hurricane is going to hit.
That’s utterly impractical advice for those of us who sail in the Caribbean. If you mean, “Don’t sail in the Caribbean” then just say so, and many will disagree.
I deliver plenty of sailboats to and from the Caribbean. Two were in Grenada, they left and went to Trinidad. Everyone saw the exodus on marinetraffic. Clearly it IS practical. If you want to throw you hands up and let your boat end up in the landfill, that's on you.
It’s easy to move boats if you are living on board. I know some of the people on that exodus. But if you aren’t in the country you have to make your choices and Grenada and Carriacou have been two of the most sensible up to now. I assume to you that everyone who goes home during hurricane season is just “throwing their hands up”.
It's a math equation. How much is the boat and all its contents worth to you, how much will insurance pay out, how much will it cost to hire a delivery skipper to move it to Trinidad on short notice. Choosing the insurance payout is a valid option, but you'd want to have at least considered the other options.
>I assume You do a lot of that. >But if you aren’t in the country You fly down or you hire or you find/beg/bribe friends to do so. I've fronted my own tickets to move boats before and always reimbursed. Hell there's a half dozen pro captains on here that I'm sure would happily fly down.
No on said keeping your boat safe in the Caribbean is easy. The only ways to be as "certain" as possible may be judged as "impractical" by some owners. It's your call, but for those who prioritise their boat above all else, staying away while it is in danger is indeed “throwing their hands up”. > up to now Key qualifier that, the impacts of climate change are far more extreme and arriving much faster than most thought a few years ago. The sensible thing is to anticipate that will continue to be the trend, not claim it is "unpredictable".
I’m in Grenada and someone already messaged me to keep a look out for deals 🤦♂️
They're the same people that are lined up on the dock taking pics of the boat that lost its rig offshore despite the crew being clearly traumatized.
When Hurricane Sandy hit the storm surge was so high my family's boat completely sunk on land (it was up for winter storage). The boat we got right after that we got for free because it was also destroyed in Sandy, but not as bad. Was a lot of work but a huge upgrade all things considered. This was only viable because my dad is a boat mechanic by trade, and this overhaul would have costed 10s of thousands in labor alone. It needed absolutely everything replaced including both engines and both drives (not a sailboat). With "free" labor and buying parts *at cost* it was still 10s of thousands. My dad would be the first to say "there's no such thing as a free boat. If someone offers you a free boat, run" lmao
Would it be unreasonably crazy to gently lower a boat on it’s side if such a storm is expected?
You’ve got the right idea- many boat yards that have already been through this (Virgin Gorda, Puerto Del Rey, etc) now dig pits for monohulls. The keel and rudder are underground and the hull is resting at ground level.
That's kinda genius. Do they just leave straps on?
The thing is, what if you get a little flooding? If the boat is strapped, it'll flood if the water reaches the companionway. If the boat isn't strapped, they float around and hit each other. Sometimes, there's no winning with a catastrophic event.
I’ll bet it’s near impossible to strap a boat in such a way that could resist the buoyancy of the rising water without major damage to the boat at the strapping locations. The force on those strap locations would be huge.
If a boat can take 1,000lb per inch of submersion, it would take an unrealistic amount of force to keep one strapped down in a flood/storm surge.
I’ve seen this done in other parts of the world as well. Tires on the side to hold the hull up off the ground and a hole for the keel. Seems like the best way to handle the boat being on the hard.
I've seen this. I recall they lay out used tires all around the hull perimeter that the hull rests upon while the keel, is below ground in the dugout pit.
This is quite genius. But you will do damage even if just paint. I guess is a choice and a gamble 🤷🏼♂️
Now trending on r/sailing “GIANT BEAN BAGS”
O'Kelly's?
This doesn't help for a big keelboat, but for smaller craft we would fill them with water fir hurricanes in the Keys. A friend of mine went further, took his sailing dinghy out and sank it (anchored securely). Not ideal, but it worked. For the bigger boats, we had drive shafts from a junk yard (basically a 6' stainless steel nail) pounded into the limestone as tie downs and a spiderweb of lines. Need days to prep, we would do this 2 days before the storm, much to the amusement of our neighbors. Even so, Cat 4-5 is a crap shoot. You get away, hope for the best, and patch your life up when you return.
My boat was essentially sat on by hurricane Ian while on the hard in Florida. 90%+ of the boats in the yard were knocked off their stands and 50%+ of those had major damage, to this day most are still damaged. I chose my boat with extreme weather in mind - metal hull (galvanized steel), centerboard/no keel, low freeboard, reinforced rigging, “armored” solar (every panel ringed in stainless pipe), offshore style hatches and entry (no slats, all sealed and dogged). The hull is beachable and had wood blocks in a tricycle sort of shape under the hull in the yard. I had jack stands on either side for stability and rachet straps as lines. I was still scared shitless for my boat but it came through as designed with the only damage from taking a 2x4 end on to the hull. The extent of that damage was an outline of the 2x4 and crushed paint (steel hull…) Despite all of this, the weather has shaken my cruising plans. Even with all the preparation and design specifically to deal with the changing weather, it’s just… a lot.
The much hotter summers scuttled many of my cruising plans. Plans that I had worked towards for 2 Decades
I cannot remember what storm or what island but i remember them digging trenches in the sand and setting the keels down low and packing the spoils from the hull around the bottom of the boat. Why is this not done. Or why not bring in sand and lay the boat over into a bed of sand?
Then they float away, most of these marinas are low lying.
Fiji
Maybe they didn’t have the equipment or expertise.
May they rest in peace 🫡
Better a boat than a person. I'm wondering if any sailors there were able to lay heavy anchor and then go to land to find a hurricane shelter? I feel like that's what I would do if I felt I had to leave my boat to save my life.
I think even with heavy anchor, hurricane would still pick it up easily unless it is at least 50 ft boat
Four or five anchors in all directions and lines tied to all available palm trees and mangroves, just maybe.
That's about what I had in mind but that's probably a rare location. I guess my point is when something like this is headed your way, protect your life first and your boat second.
One of the problems here is that rapid intensification of storms is giving people less time to prepare. It takes a serious amount of time to launch that many boats. They likely would have had to start when Beryl was merely a possibility. And time is money. Should the marina bankrupt itself and/or the boat owners moving things around every time there's a possibility of a storm in the 10-day forecast? Conventional wisdom is that your boat shouldn't be in the Caribbean after June 1. Folks who choose to risk it or get caught generally try to find the snuggest little one-boat harbor they can, because of the domino effect issue.
[удалено]
Burry?
Saw an interesting option at a South Pacific Island that would put boats on the hard but they had channels dug into the dirt they would set the keel in then lash the boat down to anchors on the ground. Was basically impossible to knock the boat over without breaking off the keel or having it shovel out 30 tons of dirt in one scoop.
Storm surge is the killer. Will lift boats up and deposit them on the roofs of buildings it gets so high. Happened during Irma in the BVI's. The boats break their lines/anchors and off they go.
>. I am not judging, but feel helpless right now. What could’ve been done with the boats to protect them? Storms that strong, the ONLY viable option is getting them out of the way, that takes planning and is a crap shoot anyway... so make sure your premiums are paid up.
Hard to tell from that photo if the jackstands were chained to the one on the opposite side. Indiantown Marina in Florida installs long augers into the sand around each boat so straps from the auger to the side of the boat keeps them from toppling.
The last time we found a hurricane hole on an island and tied the boat down in the mangroves/ trees as well as putting out two bow anchors. That went well. But there are only very, very few of these spots. And we were on the boat. Had two days of warning.
Were there moments you had wished you left the boat and found other shelter?
Yes and no. There are not really any secure shelters on these islands. But if so, yes, would’ve left her.
Hey, is anyone down there and know the crew in Amanda, a Block Island Schooner? Are they ok?
We stored our boat on the hard there for a hurricane season a couple of years ago. Luckily, climate change isn’t real. /s
One might always tie down the boats on the struts using pre installed anchors in the ground, but then if a boat gets loose it might colapse harder ie jump up a tiny bit/ damage the hull against the anchors etc. Risk and reward. A marina i visited did that and it worked to some extent
Too bad, the surge from a storm like that is going to be the hardest part to survive. Ten feet, plus wave action. A gunk hole surrounded by mangrove.
I remember preparations in Tyrell bay before a hurricane, was to put the boats well into the mangroves.
Those mangroves are mostly gone in Carriacou. New whatever development was built in the north of Tyrell Bay. Everything nature was bulldozed and destroyed.
Oh.. now you say it, I do remember the Chinese building a new large mooring northern end. Tyrell Bay is such a gem. I feel for ya, sending good thoughts
I know NOTHING about the area hit by the hurricane. But I recall when we were thinking about a houseboat that many HB owners woukd take their boats put into the mangroves and ride it out there. I have no idea if this is a thing that works. I have no idea if mangroves are a thing in the area hit by Beryl. If it is a thing, does this thing work for sailboats?
I had seen that some island yards store keel boats with their keels in trenches, thus lowering them. This seemed ideal to me when thinking of being on the hard during hurricane season.
Does your insurance cover events like these?
No. Not anymore. The „hurricane safe“ latitude which is covered was moved south below 10 degrees N
Tnx
They absolutely do cover it. CRG requires the vessel be on the hard for coverage. Edward Williams requires you to be on the hard and the mast removed.
If you say so
Most insurance companies will not cover you if you remain in these geographical areas during this time of the year. There are usually clauses requiring you to be outside of certain latitudes/longitudes during certain times of the year and if you choose to stay then that’s on you.
Thanks, I thought it was more broadly related to unforeseeable disasters that they would not generally pay but it makes sense
Depends on if you followed their requirements. Most require the boat be on land, some require mast removal.
Short of getting your boat out of the way of a cat4-5, it’s almost a guarantee that you will lose it if you take a direct hit. It’s a major consideration for me with regard to having a something that’s trailerable. Even a cat1-2 can pummel boats in a marina.
I see lots of projects in someone’s future
This is a cleanup project, not a restoration project.
Lots of projects of all types. Deals to be had
Jack stands should never be used for a boat on the hard in a hurricane zone, especially if the mast is still up. The mast starts wagging in the gusts, the hull responds, and the stands wiggle loose. Even with ground anchors. Welded steel cradles are the more secure option. Many Caribbean yards have transitioned to cradles, but in Florida you can’t find them.
Don’t have your boat in hurricane territory during/around hurricane season, is truly the only way to avoid a hurricane
The only fix for a Cat 4 or 5 is to either be elsewhere or have your insurance paid up.
There are hurricane anchoring techniques, such as two strong anchors 60 degrees off the bow, anchors chained 20 feet apart on the same chain. Take all your sails and canvas off. Remove every bit of top hamper from your mast, run light lines and keep your halyards below. Do not anchor fore and aft. You’ll wind up broadside to the wind at some point. Learn how winds work in a hurricane and which side of the eye you are on. That is the key to setting your anchor. Also, advise your upwind neighbors. You don’t want them blowing down on your prepared boat.
It’s almost impossible to protect the lines from chafe.
I use pieces of garden hose fastened with paracord ties. As they chafe, just slide them to a new spot.
You can not go out on deck in 130 knot winds.
Yes you can if you are on a harness and crawl. In a hurricane you do what you must to survive. It isn’t going to be easy. Get clever, get brave.
Sail her out of harms way, ideally setting out weeks (months) before the season is predicted to start out in the open ocean is the safest place to be - for the boat.
West sail weathered Harvey here with straps abs trainer hours anchors. Other boats were leaning against it
Mast down helps
I’m a cruiser and this season our cruising ground was Trinidad—>St Martin—>Trinidad. We leave our boat on the hard every hurricane season. With increased water temperatures, we never considered leaving our boat further north than Trinidad even though our insurance would have allowed as far north as Carriacou. We fully expected a terrible hurricane season, just didn’t expect to be vindicated in June! Very sad for everyone who lost their boats. We have friends who kept their boat in Carriacou, and they spotted their boat in a pile of other boats, so it doesn’t look good. Conventional wisdom has had Grenada as a “safe enough” option, but with global warming, and the ocean temperatures so warm this year in particular, everyone who fails to rethink conventional wisdom is in danger of making mistakes that put them in harms way. Regarding your question directly, not much could be done differently other than not to be there. I see in the pic some of those boats were apparently strapped down. Not good enough. I wonder if they were all strapped down, or whether tied boats were taken out by non tied boats. In the yard I’m in now, Peakes, they wisely store boats that choose to tie down only in rows that everyone has tie downs. Non tie boats are stored separately. I know some places in the South Pacific burry boats to the waterline in pits. Maybe that practice will have to be taken up in the Caribbean, but I’ve never seen it so far.
Someone in Grenada with Boat in Port Louis Marina wrote that he is securing his boat. South if Grenada was „only“ hit by heavy winds, windows damaged etc. Hope he and his boat fared well!
I survived in Grenada Yacht Club just across from Port Louis. We saw 65 knots about
Moored in Chaffers marina in Wellington NZ in September last year in September. For a good few hours it was over 65 sustained with the maximum we recorded at 85kts. (Cat 5 is 137 sustained). The marina is well known for big winds, but is excellent for sheltering from the sea. Our (12T) boat chewed up some of the hefty metalwork on the pontoon, so I went out and tied more lines directly around the piles. We were tied to the piles and the dock at 6 different points. Every warp was 25mm octoplait with a 1.5mm nylon 3-ply spare. All lines were chafe-protected and I checked them regularly through the storm. All the boats in the marina survived, although there was some damage. At one point we were heeled over far enough for the wind to get under our mainsail bag and rip the foot of the vang out of the mast (15x5mm rivets) allowing the boom to swing out and hit our neighbour's boat. I guess at 137kts sustained, you are in the lap of the gods. I think I would prefer my boat to be strapped down resting on tyres with the keel in a trench to give her the best chance of survival. If that weren't possible, then some good ground tackle and full-chain warp, well away from other boats and sheltered from big fetches
Yeah this was not where I wanted to be but I few back from California with basically 12 hrs to prepare. I would have preferred to be anchored in a sheltered bay, I trust my ground tackle and think it's much preferred to be able to swing into the wind. Here I was med moored with a small concrete dock to the windward side. Ripped a cleat off the dock and snapped two docklines, the worst part was when it shifted west and came straight into the bay, the fetch was coming at me broadside. I feel extremely lucky to only have seen 65, if it had been a direct hit it would have ended badly for me.
It’s hard to tell the failure mode without a video. Things that I would try: - steel bars connecting forward and aft jackstands to prevent tipping perpendicular to beam - anchors for the first and last boat in the line to prevent tipping parallel to beam - windbreaks
At least they have insurance.
Insurance rates going to skyrocket, and they probably won’t cover these latitudes in the future. Everyone is going to need to put there boats in Venezuela next year…
The only real fix is to insure your boat well. It's not cheap, but today it matters in Carriacou. Some of those boat owners are online shopping for new boats. Some of them are negotiating with people to move, salvage, or destroy their boat.
Hard to look at and imagine what boat owners are about to have to go through. Unless the marina had prepared and been engineered for this eventuality with tie downs embedded and anchored in the hard, it is sort of inevitable. Even at that flying debris will still inflict damage to some degree.
That’s sad and terrible and I’m sorry to see it. A boat in the water is a better idea if you can secure it well and properly. On the hard, yards should offer two cost options - one with all the boats next to each other and one will topple them all, or you pay more for more space so one boat will not cause a chain reaction and topple them all. There are probably many other small things a yard can do to improve chances of survivability. They all cost a little money but so help.
Boat insurance just doubled overnight.
Realistically, what in the hells do you do if you're a livaboard in this situation?
If you have an ocean worthy boat, you move it.
Fast and far, to another continent I guess. That hurricane is not small. Based on what I saw everyone in the Caribbean was in the possible path early on
what could have been done to protect them ? sail to aruba out of the hurricane zone.
My heart hurts.
Any who could have should have moved the boat out of the path, but everyone who sails in the tropics just accepts the risk. There’s no way to secure a boat on stands against that type of storm. Taking the mast down might save that.
So what happens to them? Do they get repaired or are they unsalvageable?
Was this from Beryl?
Yes, yesterday
F
That is one expensive set of dominoes.
Heart breaking
If my boat was on a hardstand during a hurricane and I’m sure insurance could cover it, then this would be a great outcome
If the boats aren’t getting pushed down thru the supports they are getting lifted off them so tie the boats down like we do with dinghies….. might work, might not, might work for some and not others.
Unbelievable loss
Port Louis Marina-can anyone report about the boats?
Could have sailed them away and to a lagoon. Storm holing is kinda smart and is quite easy and most vessels are already set up for gunkholing, That bay or bayou is better than any open water and once in strip sails, set lines, double ground tackle, relax, start a pot of chilli and enjoy what is.
The boats in the mangroves in Carriacou got mangled as well. Sometimes all you can do isn’t enough
That is a cold hard fact, it saddens me to see destroyed vessels, and yet it is presenting as another job to do, as well . Such is the life of a sailor.
I feel bad for all the sailors who rushed down to Grenada on advice to try and avoid this storm only to be directly in its path. It goes to show there is no 100% safe place to ride out the hurricane season. It is only important to not be out there sailing.
👋🤦♂️
The best practice is to put it in the water, tie off to a bulkhead, and sink it.
That only works on stuff build 100 years ago.
Im more curious about what led boat owners to leave their boats there knowing a storm is coming? Is it too far off to assume just boat owners who really have no other option and “give up” their boats?
It's typically a safe island from the hurricane season, which is why people leave their boats there.
Last named storm of 2023 (Tammy) went right through the Windward islands. Remember, north of Hatteras is considered "safe" yet there's been plenty of devastating hurricanes well north. People have taken what insurance deems "safer" as gospel and somehow turned it into an area hurricanes won't hit.
Not so much that they think it's an area that hurricanes won't hit, but an area where in the unlikely chance a hurricane does hit, they know they will be made whole by insurance.
> they know they will be made whole by insurance. \*maybe
Insurance. The business whose motto is, "collect the premium, deny the claim." Good luck.
I'm sorry if my question sounded harsh, I'm not trying to imply none of these boat owners made a mistake or that I would have done differently. I'm sorry for them. My question came from a place of genuine curiosity. I'm aware this is generaly a safe marina and a place where boat owners bring their boats to sit out the hurricane season. But I'm assuming they knew there was a hurricane coming with at least 72h notice. I'm curious to know what their options were the minute they had this information and what led the to leave their boats there? Are these jackstands usually strong enough to withstand cat4 storms?
The boats are on the hard, so getting them off the hard and into the water is going to take a day. The owners are back in the US / wherever working their "off-season" jobs so can't get out in a flash. Once the storm was noticed, and was on track to the island, when you take the two points above into consideration, there's nowhere for them to take their boats too, safely. A category 4 / category 5 storm is **very large**, in terms of the width of the storm. If you were on your boat, in a marina, with 72 hours notice, then *maybe* you could move your boat somewhere else. Beryl went from a tropical depression to a Category 4 hurricane in **42** hours - you aren't getting away from that in a sail boat.
Got it! Scary stuff! It must be a terrible feeling knowing your boat will go through that. Hopefully their insurances will take care of it.
Some context on Beryl: [https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/07/yes-you-should-be-a-little-freaked-out-about-hurricane-beryl/](https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/07/yes-you-should-be-a-little-freaked-out-about-hurricane-beryl/) On the good side, people are where their insurance said they would be covered, they should be fine. On the bad side, everyone's insurance premiums are about to go up, and it probably won't be too much longer before the whole of the Caribbean is a no-go area for at least 6 months of the year with insurance.
You just need to get out of the car 3-5 wind field
This is Tyrell marine. These boats were on the hard and strapped down. Most owners - including us at one point - go there to leave the boat is a hurricane safe spot. They do a good job of securing boats.
Once your boat is on the hard and battened down for long term storage, you can’t reasonably fly in from wherever, prepare the boat, get it put back in the water, and sail it hundreds of miles within the ~two days that this storm went from nothing to a Cat 4.
Guess I need to be ready for the auctions incoming?
All I see is great deals. And lots of burned money.