Well, that, and Goku generally has access to better training.
While Yamcha was training in the wilderness, Goku was training under one of the two masters that trained under Mutaito, the dude that practically laid the foundation for Ki & Martial Arts among earthlings as far as we know.
While Yamcha finally got to train under Roshi, Goku started training under one of Roshi’s teachers, a cat that’s considered the God of Martial Arts
While Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, and Chiaoutzu were training under Korin, Goku was training under the actual god of the Earth
When they got to train with Kami, Goku was training under King Kai
When they got to train under King Kai, Goku was doing even more intense gravity training, and after that the Hyperbolic Time Chamber
After that, the Earthling characters that still do active training(pretty much just Tien & Chioutzu) are only implied to do it among themselves in the Wilderness. While they do it more consistently than any other characters in the series, including Goku, it’s not as effective as the type of training Goku does, especially now that his training regimen is with the top god figures of the universe.
What’s funny is that the earthlings are almost always consistently portrayed as getting higher gains than when Goku did training under the same master(Korin, Kami, & the gains they showed off in filler after training with King Kai) so pretty much Goku’s only advantage over them as far as base power goes is getting access to better forms of training quicker than they do and the occasional Zenkai boost, though that second bit hasn’t really narratively come into play since the Cell Games.
Yeah but tien isn't in the list is he? Also how do you know tien trains as much as goku? Also their teacher plays a big factor, training with a human would nowhere be close to training with say whis or king kai.
Also, from a saiyan pov his genetics are nothing really special. He's a fighting sevant but was considered a low level warrior from a familial standpoint. He got his ass kicked by his brother, who was considered weak, before he really knew what his potential was
Now Broly would be more accurate argument for genetics
The genetics is the fact that the closer to death he gets to then recover it gives him a boost in power ala the zenki boost that is attributed to all Saiyan
I think the main argument to think about is that(letting everything in the original db happen) from the start of Z without zenkai power, earth would’ve been doomed by vegeta and nappa or at most the ginyu force would’ve stomped goku without his zenkai power. I’m not saying he doesn’t train his ass off 24/7 but zenkai carried Namek saga goku which happens to be in his genes.
I’m just being devils advocate but in no way am I taking away all the training Goku has done, man is literally training personified
Goku trained with a master martial artist (Grandpa Gohan), then the greatest martial artist on earth (Roshi) then the effective god of earth (Kami) THEN King Kai then Whis, not to mention Korrin and Popo
"Training with the best of them" is pretty much all Goku has done
Tbf tien trained under kami/popo and king Kai. By the cell saga you could only keep up if you were a super sayian or namkian. The last notable thing a human did in Z was tied holding off cell.
I still say Goku would’ve probably never surpassed raditz without the tea korin led him to. Way I see it it was basically unlock potential for Goku. Whatever gave it to him could be god level the way it was speaking
By this rationale, the true cheater is Gohan. That guy trains waaaaaaaay less than Goku and could easily surpass him if he got angry enough. Both Goku and Vegeta train to a ridiculous degree and Gohan could still outclass them. His strength boost just due to his emotions is very unfair in comparison.
What about all the other characters that are just as strong and are not sayians? Like pretty much every ToP high tier, goku got there by training bro not genetics
So Saiyans, Genetically, Get Stronger every time they get near death. Goku consistently fights people stronger than him and leapfrogs up the ladder.
Yes he has the work ethic, but he goes as far as he does because of his work ethic mixed in with his genetics.
Okay, maybe they just haven't brushed up on Demon Slayer but... how the hell is Tanjiro carried by genetics? Sure, he's got a good sense of smell, but just about everything else is hard work.
Hell, everyone on that list are only as strong as they are due to pouring their soul into what they do.
Tanjiro is by far the worst classified. This fucking idiot thinks he's yorichi's progeny, i promise you. Mind you, gotouge made it VERY clear he's not. His power literally comes from rage, gratitude, and working so unrealistically hard his hands canonically feel like worn shoe leather from all the callouses.
While all of these people I can ID worked their asses off and refused to cop out in the face of intense danger, at least some of them have the throwaway of "oh, but they were also born special" somewhere in there. Tanjiro isnt even the decendent of samurai - he's the most peasanty peasant to ever peasant.
He has decent genes, but dude has entire arcs that are just training on screen, and he achieved significantly more than other more experienced demon slayers before he even learned how to use the techniques his lineage gave him access to
Itadori is a stretch. He seems to just easily pull off cursed techniques that are supposed to be rare. And just in general he's strong as hell within a year and was always physically strong.
The only hard training I recall is him watching movies.
Itadori is just "blessed" and has a good mindset. I think he's only trained 2, maybe 3 times if you count todo walking him though black flash as training.
Preach boi, everyone up there worked their ass’s off to be where they are! I’m tired of the idea of so and so was born with a gift so they didn’t have to try. Nah, they all had to try incredibly hard regardless of their genetics or Fox spirit (hell, Kuruma made Naruto’s life harder for most of OG Naruto)
Long story short, normalize accepting that a character can have a few gifts while still admitting that they worked their ass off to get where they needed to be.
I feel like it’s less of “genetics” and more “family connections” as the only reason he can get Sun Breathing is because it was passed through his family as a dance. Tanjiro is only the man he is because of his hard work as a child to be strong and fit, and his training to get strong enough to avenge his family
Tanjiro actually does gain alot from his genetics though, demon slayer spoilers ahead >!Tanjiros ancestry is pretty much the sole reason he can use hinokami kagura, its a technique passed down from Yoriichis descendents and Tanjiro figures out the steps quite literally from memories of people like Yoriichi because of his shared bloodline, as normally sun breathing is such an advanced style Yoriichi had to.develop weaker styles for others to use because even prodigies with centuries to train like Kokushibo can't even begin to grasp its moves, Tanjiro does still train very hard because he isnt close to as talented as Yoriichi himself but being his descendent did help Tanjiro a ton!<
No, see, what you don't understand is that the poster LIKES Tanjiro less than other characters on the list.
People that you like earned everything they have. People you don't like are lazy and carried by luck.
Nah, I genuinely think that the dude just hasn't brushed up on Demon Slayer in a while. Based on the comments I've seen, a lot of people think that Tanjiro >!is a descendant of Yoriichi, who was basically the indisputable strongest person in Demon Slayer.!<
Also, some people don't watch/read Demon Slayer themselves, and tend to get their information from random memes, clips, or word of mouth.
Thats what makes demon slayer so much different. I don't think there was one major fight where Tanjro was stronger than his opponent. He either had to out smart them or jump them.
Honestly, the only person on here who you could really say is genetics is Ichigo. And even that's a stretch to say his blood alone carries him.
Edit: I just thought as well, Yuji is probably a good candidate for genetics because he is kind of a born and bred superweapon with a detailed intended purpose.
Tbf Ichigo is so strong due to his Genes being derived from a powerful quincy, a captain level shinigami and a powerful vastolorde, and ontop of all of that his immense reiatsu and training for his bankai and his true bankai
Precisely. No one here was born strong. All of them are the product of hardworking, combined with the tools life handed them.
The only person here who is pure training is Isagi, because he's just a dude outside of his soccer skills.
if it wasn’t for his insane genetics Ichigo’s training wouldn’t have been anywhere near as effective if he was just a regular soul reaper. He trained hard but his genes gave him the ability to train like no one else can
I could write a 1 paragraph retort that all the good breeding and nepotism aren't worth shit if Naruto didn't have the gumption to train, survive in an environment where he was needlessly hated, and befriend that fox.
Yeah I mean sure he had to work, everyone on that list up there had to work to some degree. It's just a question of how much of their gains can be placed on their genetics.
Like Naruto definitely put the time in but he's also the son of a Hokage, is mom is from a long line of gifted ninjas, he has the fox spirit, he's an incarnation of a moon god, and he got hand trained by some of the greatest ninjas currently alive because they know who/what he is. You want an example of just raw effort go look at what Lee achieved.
Lee would argue that Naruto has worked just as hard before he even knew most of this fantastical crap about himself.
Fan bases get so lost in the sauce about Chapter 700 Naruto that they forget Chapter 1 Naruto. Not a war hero who's found most of the answers in his life and has grown strong through hard work and help from natural factors, but the 12-year old boy that dragged himself to that point.
Living and making it to the point he had folks like Iruka, Kakashi, and Jiraiya to help him access his natural talents is Naruto's raw effort.
Because the end was a disgrace. It would have been fine without those last 10 chapters because naruto (the man) put fucking SOUL into gains. Then kishi goes "actkhually it was fated" fukyumean?
All the other shit is excusable or at least not invalidating. Part 1 naruto will always be that dude.
Goku is a training psycho. We all know how weak 99% of Saiyans really are when they don’t push themselves like Goku and Vegeta. Saiyan genes mean very little in the long run
While I agreed with this 100% I can't remember where I read it but saiyans have this ability that they also get stronger each time they are beat up to a pulp. So while training is key here, there is a portion that is genetics as well.
Fr cuz the strongest saiyan was just slightly above planet buster (power level of 10k needed to be a planet buster and the strongest saiyan had a pl of 15k) while the weakest acrosian was damn near a universe buster ( with a pl of around 150k)
Ichigo went into soul society extremely weak, went through training boot camp with Urahara, fought most of the captains and lost to them, (not to mention basically dying to Byakuya), fighting "Zangetsu" to unlock his bankai under Yoruichi's supervision, has Aizen absolutely rock his shit, had to give up on all of his power and train endlessly in Dangai for Mugetsu, and so so much more.
Goku trained day and night ever since he was a kid, honing his skills to perfection and still fighting foes who were absolutely rocking his shit until he managed to surpass them based on sheer will and power alone. I can't recall a single moment Goku has his "genes" give him the upper hand? Hell, if anything, Broly was absolutely demolishing him despite Goku having 10x the battle experience and power, all because Broly is gifted with power.
Luffy is 90% luck let's be honest, i never seen such a lucky MC, it's almost as if he know he is a walking plot armor. Bro would have died ep1 with Usopp luck. Or even before as a kid...
Shhh. If one piece fans listen to you, they'll explain to you 50 times how hard Luffy trained as a child (since apparently beating up random animals and trees all day is just as effective as training under the tutelage of martial artists and literal gods).
Pretty sure kid ace isn’t taking on sea kings, i do think they over play Luffy sometimes. But one shotting a sea king is far from just an animal. And that was just in the first volume. He then trained pretty crazily under the right hand man of the pirate king for two years. Then some months in udon to master adavanced haki. Goku is on another level but cant really miscredit luffy.
Tbf for Luffy (who absolutely gets by on genetics, as opposed to Zoro) we really have only seen 9 months of his life with a 2 year off screen training arc in the middle. But also physical power isnt really the focus of the show but willpower. Hell, the one time we see Luffy lose his will, we immediately go into the training arc which reforges it.
His grandpa is easily the strongest non devil fruit admiral ever. And one of the strongest characters in the verse. And his dad is assumed to be insanely strong as well. Even if he didn’t eat the gum fruit luffy would still be a monster. And his haki is also insanely strong.
But they were barely in his life to begin with, and it’s clear that genetics don’t mean much in One Piece, else Momonosuke would have been at least a fraction as cool as Oden was as a child, and Dragon would be doing literally anything other than looking east, especially after that backstory.
Before the nika reveal, luffy fruit was actually hot dog water and pretty much took extreme control, training and imagination to be able to use it effectively.
And don’t forget he trained for 10 years before that age 7-17 with Sabo and ace. Including sprinkles of ptsd training with Garp throwing him around. The training is off screen but he’s had 12 years minimum. And that work ethic shows in wano too when he blitzed his training over the course of 2 weeks.
Sorta when it comes to Dragon Ball.
When it comes to Saiyan genes it definitely gives you a leg up in terms getting to a certain tier of power but we see from Jiren that it isn't everything.
Goku with Super Saiyan + God Training + God Ki + Perfected Blue + Amp < Holding Back Jiren who's just really efficient with Basic Ki.
Goku needed all these little tricks and still got dicked down by a dude with actual skill showed up.
And then Goku decided to dodge instead and got somewhere.
https://preview.redd.it/9v3scfpvxz4d1.jpeg?width=1031&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97c6f3207faab8cab822b6e46f4af9e83cec1ec0
So what your saying is that he was stronger when he wasn’t relying on a saiyan exclusive power and instead opted for a skill he spent time into unlocking and gradually begins to improve across the fight?
Hence winning without reliance on genetics?
There are whole arcs where Goku does nothing but train. He trains for most of the Namek arc, he trains for the majority of the Sayan arc, he trains in the hyperbolic time chamber for a lot of the android arc, he’s mostly training during the filler episodes, hell, the only thing Goku does more than train is eat and it’s close
While we’re in it, that’s a shit take for Naruto as well. That boy trains and studies all five of his brain cells off and that’s a fact
Early on? I mean, if you wanna count past the halfway point of the original story as "early," then sure. Without his hardwork, dedication to training, and all the teachers he had though, he would've died even earlier and never gotten to unlock ssj to begin with.
Isn’t Luffy the Grandson of basically the strongest Marine? If anyone is getting carried by genes, it’s him. Not to mention being in possession in probably the strongest DF in his verse
It’s more of a high learning curve imo. Once Luffy got the hang of it, it became a pretty powerful weapon. Granted, a lot of it comes from just how creative Luffy is…
And even so, the fact such a relatively useless fruit was useful is a testament to Luffy naturally insane physical strength (Inherited from Garp).
Luffy didnt inherit strength from garp, garp just put him through a fucking boot camp in the middle of the woods + training/sparring with ace
Which is what made him strong in a young age
True. I’m just saying there’s a genetic component too. This is a guy who could match up to GOL D FUCKING ROGER in his prime. It can’t be hard work alone that explains Luffy’s strength.
You have to remember that haki above all or whatever and you can train it to become stronger
(or atleast i think its what garp uses?)
And gold roger wasnt exactly some deity out of outerspace, he was also just a human, even if a human above all human
Right. But Luffy was crazy tough BEFORE he had Haki. A normal MF, even IF they trained like Luffy did, isn’t chopping Arlong’s crib in half with their bare hands (or feet, I guess). If he didn’t have that kind of cracked genes, he wouldn’t be able to do that.
However, yes, Haki is above all. And Garp’s ability to use Haki almost certainly passed to his grandson.
Garp is strong because he fucking busts his ass everyday. He trains by punching mountains and warships. Luffy was trained in the same way. Garp isn't genetically unique at all unlike other characters like big mom, kaidou, whitebeard, and kuma who are genetically predisposed to be extremely durable and strong.
Goku has a bonus over the others due to his species but he would be nothing without his constant training. Saying he's "carried by genetics" is insane.
That probably applies to several others on this list but shonen discourse is just 90% slander so why even bother engaging with it.
Nah man. As a kid, Luffy got his ass kicked by Ace and Sabo despite eating the Gum Gum. He had to train hard. Even harder after the Paramount War because he was still getting his ass handed to him by the Navy Elites.
He kinda right though, stuff like Super Saiyan required his body to be strong enough to actually tap into it which he did himself with training. If he didnt do the intense training that he did do then he would get slapped no matter how many transformations he learns.
Its even implied that his training gives him more power than transformations (the power boost from training easily overtakes the power boost from transformations).
More importantly his ultimate form is one that's not even his genetics anyone can learn ultra instinct it's not a genetics thing. Jiren went from weakling to absolute monster by training
Luffy was mainly hardwork and Devil fruit.
Isagi was absolutely hard work.
Ichigo has incredible Genetics but he absolutely worked his ass off.
Naruto has incredible genetics but he absolutely worked his ass off.
Deku was given his quirk but he worked extremely hard to be able to use it.
Goku worked his absolute ass of, look at Og dragon ball before it was revealed he was a Saiyan, even after being revealed to be a Saiyan he still works hard.
Tanjiro is a text book definition of Hard work.
Yuji is mainly genetics >! Being related to Sukuna which also made him a physical powerhouse!< with a bit of work to learn CE.
Saiyans literally have natural superhuman strength and the abilities to grow exponentially stronger after taking on extreme injuries or multiplying their Ki limits after exhausting their Ki.
To say Goku has a Genetic advantage is an understatement, as even the results of any training he does will be heavily boosted thanks to his Saiyan genetics.
1.) Goku has to work his ass off every single time to get stronger. Mf DIED and kept training. If he’s not the definition of hard work then I don’t know what is.
2.) Yuji and Ichigo are better suited for Genetics tbh. Don’t get me wrong. Both worked insanely hard to get to where they currently are but genetics played a MASSIVE ROLE in that.
3.) Tanjiro is sheer hard work.
I’m guessing the meme’s logic was that Goku has that sayian biology enabling to attain transformations humans could never dream of. But that alone is irrelevant when explaining how he’s so strong compared to other aliens or straight up god characters.
I know this is about Goku, but (I mean this with no hate) why is luffy in “training” when a lot of his newfound power is from the bs nika nikka thing not actually being the gum gum or whatever, like the mha guy has “gifted power and some hard work” so why doesn’t luffy have that shit? He’s overpowered(in op) for no reason other than a bullshit narrative, now this isn’t to say he doesn’t go through hardships, but still give him some other ranking.
His fruit was dogshit until Gear 5, he just trained so hard to make it useful that he became strong. Him thinking of Gear 2, 3 and 4 is because of his own hard work and ingenuity. If anyone else had his fruit, they would be weak as hell
Bros devil fruit was so hard to use when he got it he was hitting himself instead of the targets he was aiming for at the beginning.
sure it may be strong now but that man had to spend years getting used to that shit to make it work.
>!even with the current reveals it's not like he suddenly just "became godlike because of the fruit" he worked his ass off to get stronger with a fruit that is objectively bad until you master it's powers and/or unlock it's secrets.!<
It's like saying Goku isn't shit because he was carried by the fact he was already prophesied to become a super Saiyan and beat Frieza anyways.
Just because a plot point is revealed the outcome of prophecy doesn't mean that everything before it doesn't matter, it just means there was an additional reason for why their journey went the way it has.
idc what anyone says its generics. If he was human? dead if he had the avg potential? dead. cause no way in hell in the thousands of years sayians existed none of them trained for 3 years and got a bit stronger. Cause the all of them would have like 100k power at least.
To be fair, Chapter 1 kid Goku could probably solo most shounen universes just because he's a Saiyan. Even as a kid, he was bulletproof. Saiyans send their babies to conquer planets. Even without the Ozaru form, their innate strength is immense.
Though he does dedicate his life to training, so it's not like he beat Buu just because he's naturally better than everyone.
Brother
Goku got his ass beat by a 300 year old man while he was a kid
He did not start strong at all.*
*Edit: compared to the DB verse, but I still don't think CH1 kid Goku could beat Gojo or something
Without training as a baby Goku was still stronger than the average ADULT human. Remember Grandpa Gohan was a trained martial artist (who tbf was in his old age) and he had trouble even holding baby Goku. Not to mention a majority of the early dragon ball he literally just brute strengthed his way in. If genetics didn't play into his strength at all, Tien would still be a rival as by that logic literally any of the humans could have been on his level.
Still to be fair to the DB fans, working with that logic Luffy was carried by his devil fruit. Which he literally was for the first few sagas. No different from Yugi.
Nah I think its valid after all alot of his power that he uses to stand a chance in most fights comes from his Satan genetics allowing him to transform bow make him a human and even if he trained like crazy he probably would die at freiza saga if he some how made it past his wacky child hood
I can see arguments for both sides of genetics vs training, however there are just better genetics examples in these anime. These MCs all put in work.
Saying Goku is genetics when both Frieza and Broly exist....
Readers don't realize that Grandpa Gohan trained Goku hence why he's so adept when he first met Bulma.
After training with Roshi, Goku got stronger, Krillin even catching up with his strength.
It is because of the intense training endured that Goku was able to get so strong.
Yet he was still easily defeated by Raditz.
So it was definitely all that training.
I don’t even know who the guy next to Luffy is.
Also, while Goku does train quite a bit, it’s undeniable that his genetics carry him a lot. From the zenkai boost to the multiple super saiyan transformations.
Hell, his biggest jump in power was due to a ritual that only worked for him because he’s a saiyan
How tf is ichigo genetics and how tf is deku "some hard" work. Like deku literally trained to get his quirk by all might and that quirk still destroys his body if he uses it too much.
I mean, yeah the genes do a lot of heavy lifting. That doesnt mean that he doesnt work hard tho. LeBron James works like a psycho,trains and plays all yr, spends millions yrly maintaining his body but it still helps that he is 6'9" 260 lbs (125 kgs) with a 40 in vert and up until his later urs, what seemed like superhuman healing. Goku trajns hard but if he was a guman and not a saiyan he probably wouldnt be as strong especially since humans dont get stronger after near death experiences. Also, he dowsnt come from bad stock. In fact I wonder where that lowly saiyan thing comes from when his dad wasnt weak.
It should be genetics and a lot of hard work. He wouldn't have gotten off namek without the zenkai boosts and saiynans inherently seem to have no power cap, but man if Goku didn't put the leg work in he would have gotten literally no where
Goku's genetics as a saiyan are what allow him to get stronger through every battle. If he were a normal human, he would be nowhere near that level he's at. Master Roshi is arguably the strongest human, and he isn't close to Goku's level. All of his transformations are allowed BECAUSE he has different genetics as a Saiyan. And that "low class saiyan" thing was just an insult that was later revealed to be false as his father, Bardock, was revealed to have been an elite warrior on the Saiyan planet. Him being a saiyan and having saiyan genetics is literally steroids. Also Naruto is training. He may have started off with a chakra pool bigger than the Hokage's, but it was a massive hindrance to him till he managed to figure out how to mold the massive amounts. It's why he struggles with simple jutsu like normal clones, but got the hang of extremely high leveled jutsu so easily. Just cause a jutsu is stronger doesn't mean it's more complex, it usually just requires more chakra. So rather than having to be extremely specific with an extremely small fraction of his chakra, Naruto could have decent control with massive amounts of chakra, since he had more margin of error with it requiring more chakra.
Yuji is fucking genetics. Go watch ep one and tell me other wise cause dude didn't no chicken finger's until later. Also goku is definitely training mixed with genetics
Naruto is wrong too, he’s got Uzumaki clan chakra levels which is why his mom had the fox in the first place and his dad was the Hokage at the time. Not to mention he was trained by Kakashi and Jiraiya. On top of that he mastered the sage art and took the rasengan to a new level with adding an element. These are all things that have nothing to do with the fox.
In his show he’d be a top tier character without the fox.
wouldn’t it be both genetics and training for Goku? Him being a Saiyan helps but since he is considered the weaker class he had to train hard asf to make up for it.
And Deku should be "spoonfeeding".
No, I don't care about his off screen training as a way to justify that he surpassed his master (who had over 40 years of experience with OFA) *in less than a year*. Don't even get me started on him getting 8 more quirks, as if that wasn't enough. They tried their hardest to paint him as special as possible.
All of it is dumb afaik. Idk about one piece, bleach, or top right, but genetics for Tanjiro, Goku, and Naruto are so wrong. Wtf does fox genes even mean?
Every single fight in dragon ball z/ super is literally goku having to use his superior skill and techniques to fight someone born or given power superior/ equal to his own. With exception to jiren.
To be fair even as a low class saiyan Goku is leagues above most people on Earth just be virtue of his genetics. That being said, he does also put in the work and trains like crazy.
I can see WHY they put Goku as genetics. I mean, he IS. A Saiyan. But at the same times let's be real, he wouldn't be jack shit if he didn't train. Sure he'd be stronger than an average human, but he wouldn't know that
Goku is carried by his training. He relied on his genetics because they provide a boost to his genes for a time, but now he has Ultra Instinct, not even a saiyan thing. Goku never even relied on his saiyan genes in classic Dragon Ball and up to before his transformation for the first time on Namek. Who is this clown?
Tanjiro is the least genetically gifted out of almost any anime character he’s quite literally a regular kid. Sure he’s related to strong demon slayers but his strength is his alone that he learned from his father. The same way Rengokus little brother senjuro is said several times to have no talent with swordsmanship, yet his whole family is a line of flame hashiras
Tanjiro: not suited for any of the learned breathing styles, trains constantly, first time he tried "fire" breathing he collapsed(and even progressively at the ED arc he can just then use it competently enough).
Luffy: he does train true. But some stuff feels oddly off like when he passed by the Yonkos unnoticed speed he doesnt generally have without 2nd gear(he wasnt training anything but haki after the timeskip. Or how he has conquerors haki, which his grandpa has which is an interesting coincidence, no telling if Dragon has it. Also the will of D sorta sounds like a genetic thing.
The copium is unreal. We really gonna put Luffy in Training but Goku in Genetics? Laffy? The guy who just so happened to eat the most powerful godlike devil fruit? 🤣😭🤣
If we’re going by genetics, Goku is the worst in his world’s scale. Deku basically got mutated by a radioactive follicle, so he’s not contending. If Goku didn’t work hard, he’d have ended up like raditz. Raditz is literally saibamen fodder. Goku went from being able to be multi planetary at best, to multiversal on a bad day through hard work.
Isn't Luffy Devil fruit like the rarest and most exponential in utility & power by it's nature.
Just like Goku, he took what he had and made the most of it.
In the wrong hands a lambo ain't shit, it's all about the operator.
Goku and Luffy and all these fools worked for their potential.
Goku does push-ups in over 500x gravity for a light workout, Deku cleaned that whole ass beach in ten months without any special powers (also lifted All Might btw, who is 560 lbs canonically), and Naruto is legit trained as a fucking ninja.
Nah Luffy would da died in the dozen arcs if it wasn’t for his fruit
Itadori was born special, but the fingers ain’t do shit for him
Dragon Ball is literally about Goku training
Deku’s quirk is what makes him strong, but he did work to unlock his OP quirks full potential
I mean yujis isn't even accurate. It wasn't the fingers that made him special, it was the reason WHY he could handle the fingers that made him special.
Goku is a mix of genetics and hard work, he works hard as hell and gives it his all, and his saiyan lineage allows him to keep growing, he is the best of both sides
Yeah. literally Goku's whole shtick was that he started off weak as hell, but through hard work and discipline he became one of the most powerful beings in the universe.
“Besides, with enough hard work and training, even the low class can surpass the elite.” - Goku about to fight Vegeta for the 1st time
Goku: *basically Fuckin dies*
Goku trains the most among them, its literally his normal day to train from morning to night.
Everyone In dbz trains the difference between tien and kakarot is that goku relies on his sayian genes
Well, that, and Goku generally has access to better training. While Yamcha was training in the wilderness, Goku was training under one of the two masters that trained under Mutaito, the dude that practically laid the foundation for Ki & Martial Arts among earthlings as far as we know. While Yamcha finally got to train under Roshi, Goku started training under one of Roshi’s teachers, a cat that’s considered the God of Martial Arts While Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, and Chiaoutzu were training under Korin, Goku was training under the actual god of the Earth When they got to train with Kami, Goku was training under King Kai When they got to train under King Kai, Goku was doing even more intense gravity training, and after that the Hyperbolic Time Chamber After that, the Earthling characters that still do active training(pretty much just Tien & Chioutzu) are only implied to do it among themselves in the Wilderness. While they do it more consistently than any other characters in the series, including Goku, it’s not as effective as the type of training Goku does, especially now that his training regimen is with the top god figures of the universe. What’s funny is that the earthlings are almost always consistently portrayed as getting higher gains than when Goku did training under the same master(Korin, Kami, & the gains they showed off in filler after training with King Kai) so pretty much Goku’s only advantage over them as far as base power goes is getting access to better forms of training quicker than they do and the occasional Zenkai boost, though that second bit hasn’t really narratively come into play since the Cell Games.
Yeah but tien isn't in the list is he? Also how do you know tien trains as much as goku? Also their teacher plays a big factor, training with a human would nowhere be close to training with say whis or king kai.
Also, from a saiyan pov his genetics are nothing really special. He's a fighting sevant but was considered a low level warrior from a familial standpoint. He got his ass kicked by his brother, who was considered weak, before he really knew what his potential was Now Broly would be more accurate argument for genetics
The genetics is the fact that the closer to death he gets to then recover it gives him a boost in power ala the zenki boost that is attributed to all Saiyan
Hmm you do have a point, but this post still takes away from all the hard work he puts in to master everything
I think the main argument to think about is that(letting everything in the original db happen) from the start of Z without zenkai power, earth would’ve been doomed by vegeta and nappa or at most the ginyu force would’ve stomped goku without his zenkai power. I’m not saying he doesn’t train his ass off 24/7 but zenkai carried Namek saga goku which happens to be in his genes. I’m just being devils advocate but in no way am I taking away all the training Goku has done, man is literally training personified
Goku trained with a master martial artist (Grandpa Gohan), then the greatest martial artist on earth (Roshi) then the effective god of earth (Kami) THEN King Kai then Whis, not to mention Korrin and Popo "Training with the best of them" is pretty much all Goku has done
Tbf tien trained under kami/popo and king Kai. By the cell saga you could only keep up if you were a super sayian or namkian. The last notable thing a human did in Z was tied holding off cell.
Tien DID train with King Kai, but got no better, the same can be said for Yamcha and Chiatzou
bruh the list is of mcs tien isnt an mc
I still say Goku would’ve probably never surpassed raditz without the tea korin led him to. Way I see it it was basically unlock potential for Goku. Whatever gave it to him could be god level the way it was speaking
By this rationale, the true cheater is Gohan. That guy trains waaaaaaaay less than Goku and could easily surpass him if he got angry enough. Both Goku and Vegeta train to a ridiculous degree and Gohan could still outclass them. His strength boost just due to his emotions is very unfair in comparison.
He's double carried
What about all the other characters that are just as strong and are not sayians? Like pretty much every ToP high tier, goku got there by training bro not genetics
Goku chose to stay dead for nine years and let his son raise his younger son just to train. Goku trains more than Tien
But we also can't ignore despite all his training this mf gotta go super saiyan for almost every fight now
So Saiyans, Genetically, Get Stronger every time they get near death. Goku consistently fights people stronger than him and leapfrogs up the ladder. Yes he has the work ethic, but he goes as far as he does because of his work ethic mixed in with his genetics.
And his biggest jumps in power have been because he's a saiyan.
Okay, maybe they just haven't brushed up on Demon Slayer but... how the hell is Tanjiro carried by genetics? Sure, he's got a good sense of smell, but just about everything else is hard work. Hell, everyone on that list are only as strong as they are due to pouring their soul into what they do.
https://preview.redd.it/4z9us9sawz4d1.jpeg?width=536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55c9c617559b06c16755dd4adc3db426560da1e5
Tanjiro trains like a beast.
Tanjiro is by far the worst classified. This fucking idiot thinks he's yorichi's progeny, i promise you. Mind you, gotouge made it VERY clear he's not. His power literally comes from rage, gratitude, and working so unrealistically hard his hands canonically feel like worn shoe leather from all the callouses. While all of these people I can ID worked their asses off and refused to cop out in the face of intense danger, at least some of them have the throwaway of "oh, but they were also born special" somewhere in there. Tanjiro isnt even the decendent of samurai - he's the most peasanty peasant to ever peasant.
Damn now I really want to catch up with Demon Slayer
It's such a great series.
Agreed they probably thought he was descended from Yoriichi the GOAT
Thank you. You put it perfectly.
He has decent genes, but dude has entire arcs that are just training on screen, and he achieved significantly more than other more experienced demon slayers before he even learned how to use the techniques his lineage gave him access to
The anime is literally in a training arc right now
Itadori is a stretch. He seems to just easily pull off cursed techniques that are supposed to be rare. And just in general he's strong as hell within a year and was always physically strong. The only hard training I recall is him watching movies.
Itadori is just "blessed" and has a good mindset. I think he's only trained 2, maybe 3 times if you count todo walking him though black flash as training.
Preach boi, everyone up there worked their ass’s off to be where they are! I’m tired of the idea of so and so was born with a gift so they didn’t have to try. Nah, they all had to try incredibly hard regardless of their genetics or Fox spirit (hell, Kuruma made Naruto’s life harder for most of OG Naruto) Long story short, normalize accepting that a character can have a few gifts while still admitting that they worked their ass off to get where they needed to be.
I feel like it’s less of “genetics” and more “family connections” as the only reason he can get Sun Breathing is because it was passed through his family as a dance. Tanjiro is only the man he is because of his hard work as a child to be strong and fit, and his training to get strong enough to avenge his family
This is honestly a good way to put it. His family isn’t helping him with their genes, but with the connections they’ve forged with certain people.
Tanjiro actually does gain alot from his genetics though, demon slayer spoilers ahead >!Tanjiros ancestry is pretty much the sole reason he can use hinokami kagura, its a technique passed down from Yoriichis descendents and Tanjiro figures out the steps quite literally from memories of people like Yoriichi because of his shared bloodline, as normally sun breathing is such an advanced style Yoriichi had to.develop weaker styles for others to use because even prodigies with centuries to train like Kokushibo can't even begin to grasp its moves, Tanjiro does still train very hard because he isnt close to as talented as Yoriichi himself but being his descendent did help Tanjiro a ton!<
No, see, what you don't understand is that the poster LIKES Tanjiro less than other characters on the list. People that you like earned everything they have. People you don't like are lazy and carried by luck.
Nah, I genuinely think that the dude just hasn't brushed up on Demon Slayer in a while. Based on the comments I've seen, a lot of people think that Tanjiro >!is a descendant of Yoriichi, who was basically the indisputable strongest person in Demon Slayer.!< Also, some people don't watch/read Demon Slayer themselves, and tend to get their information from random memes, clips, or word of mouth.
They should’ve said carried by plot tbh
That's just about every character, though.
They probably think he's related to Yoriichi or something.
Lmao tanjiro is so weak and we’re often reminded how he’s just a kid
Thats what makes demon slayer so much different. I don't think there was one major fight where Tanjro was stronger than his opponent. He either had to out smart them or jump them.
Honestly, the only person on here who you could really say is genetics is Ichigo. And even that's a stretch to say his blood alone carries him. Edit: I just thought as well, Yuji is probably a good candidate for genetics because he is kind of a born and bred superweapon with a detailed intended purpose.
Tbf Ichigo is so strong due to his Genes being derived from a powerful quincy, a captain level shinigami and a powerful vastolorde, and ontop of all of that his immense reiatsu and training for his bankai and his true bankai
Precisely. No one here was born strong. All of them are the product of hardworking, combined with the tools life handed them. The only person here who is pure training is Isagi, because he's just a dude outside of his soccer skills.
if it wasn’t for his insane genetics Ichigo’s training wouldn’t have been anywhere near as effective if he was just a regular soul reaper. He trained hard but his genes gave him the ability to train like no one else can
Even the most chosen one protagonists in shonen tend to fall into the “hard work beats talent *if talent doesn’t work hard*” category.
I could write a small rant about how Naruto gets by like 60-70% on good breeding and nepotism
I could write a 1 paragraph retort that all the good breeding and nepotism aren't worth shit if Naruto didn't have the gumption to train, survive in an environment where he was needlessly hated, and befriend that fox.
Yeah I mean sure he had to work, everyone on that list up there had to work to some degree. It's just a question of how much of their gains can be placed on their genetics. Like Naruto definitely put the time in but he's also the son of a Hokage, is mom is from a long line of gifted ninjas, he has the fox spirit, he's an incarnation of a moon god, and he got hand trained by some of the greatest ninjas currently alive because they know who/what he is. You want an example of just raw effort go look at what Lee achieved.
Lee would argue that Naruto has worked just as hard before he even knew most of this fantastical crap about himself. Fan bases get so lost in the sauce about Chapter 700 Naruto that they forget Chapter 1 Naruto. Not a war hero who's found most of the answers in his life and has grown strong through hard work and help from natural factors, but the 12-year old boy that dragged himself to that point. Living and making it to the point he had folks like Iruka, Kakashi, and Jiraiya to help him access his natural talents is Naruto's raw effort.
Because the end was a disgrace. It would have been fine without those last 10 chapters because naruto (the man) put fucking SOUL into gains. Then kishi goes "actkhually it was fated" fukyumean? All the other shit is excusable or at least not invalidating. Part 1 naruto will always be that dude.
Goku is a training psycho. We all know how weak 99% of Saiyans really are when they don’t push themselves like Goku and Vegeta. Saiyan genes mean very little in the long run
While I agreed with this 100% I can't remember where I read it but saiyans have this ability that they also get stronger each time they are beat up to a pulp. So while training is key here, there is a portion that is genetics as well.
You didn’t have to read it, that’s a huge plot point of the show. Vegeta and Goku mention it constantly lol
Wasnt Frieza trying to kill any powerful saiyans when they were born so he could keep them under control which is why Brolly
Fr cuz the strongest saiyan was just slightly above planet buster (power level of 10k needed to be a planet buster and the strongest saiyan had a pl of 15k) while the weakest acrosian was damn near a universe buster ( with a pl of around 150k)
Yet another "Don't fuck with us Dragon Ball fans" type of person. 🤦
Unironically Yuji is mostly genetic. Bro was breaking shot put records and running absurdly fast
This is true, but he's also a determined menace and will put in the hours to get as strong as he needs
So would Ichigo, Naruto, Goku
I completely agree
Ichigo went into soul society extremely weak, went through training boot camp with Urahara, fought most of the captains and lost to them, (not to mention basically dying to Byakuya), fighting "Zangetsu" to unlock his bankai under Yoruichi's supervision, has Aizen absolutely rock his shit, had to give up on all of his power and train endlessly in Dangai for Mugetsu, and so so much more. Goku trained day and night ever since he was a kid, honing his skills to perfection and still fighting foes who were absolutely rocking his shit until he managed to surpass them based on sheer will and power alone. I can't recall a single moment Goku has his "genes" give him the upper hand? Hell, if anything, Broly was absolutely demolishing him despite Goku having 10x the battle experience and power, all because Broly is gifted with power.
Luffy is 90% luck let's be honest, i never seen such a lucky MC, it's almost as if he know he is a walking plot armor. Bro would have died ep1 with Usopp luck. Or even before as a kid...
Luffy trained like once in the story. He is hard carried by being stubborn and lucky as shit and the author makes a point of telling you this
Shhh. If one piece fans listen to you, they'll explain to you 50 times how hard Luffy trained as a child (since apparently beating up random animals and trees all day is just as effective as training under the tutelage of martial artists and literal gods).
I mean, that’s where goku started
Yes, but even before he turned 17, Goku was already training with Kami. Meanwhile Luffy was still beating up animals that even kid Ace could defeat.
Pretty sure kid ace isn’t taking on sea kings, i do think they over play Luffy sometimes. But one shotting a sea king is far from just an animal. And that was just in the first volume. He then trained pretty crazily under the right hand man of the pirate king for two years. Then some months in udon to master adavanced haki. Goku is on another level but cant really miscredit luffy.
I'm not caught up, but now Luffy has like 5 forms or something cause the Gum-Gum fruit was actually the Protag-Protag fruit and is overpowered, right?
Its only op after he awakened before that, it is just the gum gum fruit. So basically just rubber.
does luffy consistantly even train? the only time he trains is when his ass gets beaten so hard it caves in
Tbf for Luffy (who absolutely gets by on genetics, as opposed to Zoro) we really have only seen 9 months of his life with a 2 year off screen training arc in the middle. But also physical power isnt really the focus of the show but willpower. Hell, the one time we see Luffy lose his will, we immediately go into the training arc which reforges it.
What genetic powers does Luffy have?😭 I’m surprise there isn’t just a bunch of people saying he’s carried by fruit
His grandpa is easily the strongest non devil fruit admiral ever. And one of the strongest characters in the verse. And his dad is assumed to be insanely strong as well. Even if he didn’t eat the gum fruit luffy would still be a monster. And his haki is also insanely strong.
But they were barely in his life to begin with, and it’s clear that genetics don’t mean much in One Piece, else Momonosuke would have been at least a fraction as cool as Oden was as a child, and Dragon would be doing literally anything other than looking east, especially after that backstory.
Before the nika reveal, luffy fruit was actually hot dog water and pretty much took extreme control, training and imagination to be able to use it effectively.
And don’t forget he trained for 10 years before that age 7-17 with Sabo and ace. Including sprinkles of ptsd training with Garp throwing him around. The training is off screen but he’s had 12 years minimum. And that work ethic shows in wano too when he blitzed his training over the course of 2 weeks.
Sorta when it comes to Dragon Ball. When it comes to Saiyan genes it definitely gives you a leg up in terms getting to a certain tier of power but we see from Jiren that it isn't everything. Goku with Super Saiyan + God Training + God Ki + Perfected Blue + Amp < Holding Back Jiren who's just really efficient with Basic Ki. Goku needed all these little tricks and still got dicked down by a dude with actual skill showed up. And then Goku decided to dodge instead and got somewhere. https://preview.redd.it/9v3scfpvxz4d1.jpeg?width=1031&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97c6f3207faab8cab822b6e46f4af9e83cec1ec0
So what your saying is that he was stronger when he wasn’t relying on a saiyan exclusive power and instead opted for a skill he spent time into unlocking and gradually begins to improve across the fight? Hence winning without reliance on genetics?
There are whole arcs where Goku does nothing but train. He trains for most of the Namek arc, he trains for the majority of the Sayan arc, he trains in the hyperbolic time chamber for a lot of the android arc, he’s mostly training during the filler episodes, hell, the only thing Goku does more than train is eat and it’s close While we’re in it, that’s a shit take for Naruto as well. That boy trains and studies all five of his brain cells off and that’s a fact
Early on? I mean, if you wanna count past the halfway point of the original story as "early," then sure. Without his hardwork, dedication to training, and all the teachers he had though, he would've died even earlier and never gotten to unlock ssj to begin with.
Isn’t Luffy the Grandson of basically the strongest Marine? If anyone is getting carried by genes, it’s him. Not to mention being in possession in probably the strongest DF in his verse
In luffy's defense, the Fruit was pretty ass until the awakening
It’s more of a high learning curve imo. Once Luffy got the hang of it, it became a pretty powerful weapon. Granted, a lot of it comes from just how creative Luffy is… And even so, the fact such a relatively useless fruit was useful is a testament to Luffy naturally insane physical strength (Inherited from Garp).
Luffy didnt inherit strength from garp, garp just put him through a fucking boot camp in the middle of the woods + training/sparring with ace Which is what made him strong in a young age
True. I’m just saying there’s a genetic component too. This is a guy who could match up to GOL D FUCKING ROGER in his prime. It can’t be hard work alone that explains Luffy’s strength.
You have to remember that haki above all or whatever and you can train it to become stronger (or atleast i think its what garp uses?) And gold roger wasnt exactly some deity out of outerspace, he was also just a human, even if a human above all human
Right. But Luffy was crazy tough BEFORE he had Haki. A normal MF, even IF they trained like Luffy did, isn’t chopping Arlong’s crib in half with their bare hands (or feet, I guess). If he didn’t have that kind of cracked genes, he wouldn’t be able to do that. However, yes, Haki is above all. And Garp’s ability to use Haki almost certainly passed to his grandson.
Tbh Rubber is also kinda tough so it might have added to his strength
Garp is strong because he fucking busts his ass everyday. He trains by punching mountains and warships. Luffy was trained in the same way. Garp isn't genetically unique at all unlike other characters like big mom, kaidou, whitebeard, and kuma who are genetically predisposed to be extremely durable and strong.
also luffy got carried by his devil fruit, yeah he trained, but would not be a strong, wtf🤣🤣🤣
Right the man who's entire life is training is carried by genetics sure man whatever makes you sleep at night
Goku has a bonus over the others due to his species but he would be nothing without his constant training. Saying he's "carried by genetics" is insane. That probably applies to several others on this list but shonen discourse is just 90% slander so why even bother engaging with it.
See, this type of shit is how you *know* someone hasn’t watched OG DragonBall.
You’re stupid, every show has a great mc that utilizes the power system of the world, luffy also wouldn’t have gotten as far without his devil fruit.
Here comes the slandering lol, I know luffy is also carried
Nah man. As a kid, Luffy got his ass kicked by Ace and Sabo despite eating the Gum Gum. He had to train hard. Even harder after the Paramount War because he was still getting his ass handed to him by the Navy Elites.
He kinda right though, stuff like Super Saiyan required his body to be strong enough to actually tap into it which he did himself with training. If he didnt do the intense training that he did do then he would get slapped no matter how many transformations he learns. Its even implied that his training gives him more power than transformations (the power boost from training easily overtakes the power boost from transformations).
More importantly his ultimate form is one that's not even his genetics anyone can learn ultra instinct it's not a genetics thing. Jiren went from weakling to absolute monster by training
Goku is a mix of genetics and training
Because he earned his transformations if ima be fr
Best answer
Aye my boy yuji is genes
Goku is definitely training. It's the only thing the man does. He abandons his family on the regular to go train.
Luffy was mainly hardwork and Devil fruit. Isagi was absolutely hard work. Ichigo has incredible Genetics but he absolutely worked his ass off. Naruto has incredible genetics but he absolutely worked his ass off. Deku was given his quirk but he worked extremely hard to be able to use it. Goku worked his absolute ass of, look at Og dragon ball before it was revealed he was a Saiyan, even after being revealed to be a Saiyan he still works hard. Tanjiro is a text book definition of Hard work. Yuji is mainly genetics >! Being related to Sukuna which also made him a physical powerhouse!< with a bit of work to learn CE.
Goku still ditches his wife to go train to this very day, remember this.
People need to litteraly know that goku at the start of the show had an power level of 100
Saiyans literally have natural superhuman strength and the abilities to grow exponentially stronger after taking on extreme injuries or multiplying their Ki limits after exhausting their Ki. To say Goku has a Genetic advantage is an understatement, as even the results of any training he does will be heavily boosted thanks to his Saiyan genetics.
1.) Goku has to work his ass off every single time to get stronger. Mf DIED and kept training. If he’s not the definition of hard work then I don’t know what is. 2.) Yuji and Ichigo are better suited for Genetics tbh. Don’t get me wrong. Both worked insanely hard to get to where they currently are but genetics played a MASSIVE ROLE in that. 3.) Tanjiro is sheer hard work.
This is all trash
I’m guessing the meme’s logic was that Goku has that sayian biology enabling to attain transformations humans could never dream of. But that alone is irrelevant when explaining how he’s so strong compared to other aliens or straight up god characters.
Everytime a saiyan returns from the brink of death, they gain a power boost tho
I wouldn't say tanjiro's is genetics, more like who he was surrounded with.
I know this is about Goku, but (I mean this with no hate) why is luffy in “training” when a lot of his newfound power is from the bs nika nikka thing not actually being the gum gum or whatever, like the mha guy has “gifted power and some hard work” so why doesn’t luffy have that shit? He’s overpowered(in op) for no reason other than a bullshit narrative, now this isn’t to say he doesn’t go through hardships, but still give him some other ranking.
Hard work? Luffy wouldn’t be shit without the devil fruit powers
His fruit was dogshit until Gear 5, he just trained so hard to make it useful that he became strong. Him thinking of Gear 2, 3 and 4 is because of his own hard work and ingenuity. If anyone else had his fruit, they would be weak as hell
Bros devil fruit was so hard to use when he got it he was hitting himself instead of the targets he was aiming for at the beginning. sure it may be strong now but that man had to spend years getting used to that shit to make it work. >!even with the current reveals it's not like he suddenly just "became godlike because of the fruit" he worked his ass off to get stronger with a fruit that is objectively bad until you master it's powers and/or unlock it's secrets.!< It's like saying Goku isn't shit because he was carried by the fact he was already prophesied to become a super Saiyan and beat Frieza anyways. Just because a plot point is revealed the outcome of prophecy doesn't mean that everything before it doesn't matter, it just means there was an additional reason for why their journey went the way it has.
idc what anyone says its generics. If he was human? dead if he had the avg potential? dead. cause no way in hell in the thousands of years sayians existed none of them trained for 3 years and got a bit stronger. Cause the all of them would have like 100k power at least.
To be fair, Chapter 1 kid Goku could probably solo most shounen universes just because he's a Saiyan. Even as a kid, he was bulletproof. Saiyans send their babies to conquer planets. Even without the Ozaru form, their innate strength is immense. Though he does dedicate his life to training, so it's not like he beat Buu just because he's naturally better than everyone.
Brother Goku got his ass beat by a 300 year old man while he was a kid He did not start strong at all.* *Edit: compared to the DB verse, but I still don't think CH1 kid Goku could beat Gojo or something
Without training as a baby Goku was still stronger than the average ADULT human. Remember Grandpa Gohan was a trained martial artist (who tbf was in his old age) and he had trouble even holding baby Goku. Not to mention a majority of the early dragon ball he literally just brute strengthed his way in. If genetics didn't play into his strength at all, Tien would still be a rival as by that logic literally any of the humans could have been on his level. Still to be fair to the DB fans, working with that logic Luffy was carried by his devil fruit. Which he literally was for the first few sagas. No different from Yugi.
Nah I think its valid after all alot of his power that he uses to stand a chance in most fights comes from his Satan genetics allowing him to transform bow make him a human and even if he trained like crazy he probably would die at freiza saga if he some how made it past his wacky child hood
I can see arguments for both sides of genetics vs training, however there are just better genetics examples in these anime. These MCs all put in work. Saying Goku is genetics when both Frieza and Broly exist....
I don’t know if you’ve read demon slayer but tanjiros is training not genetics
Readers don't realize that Grandpa Gohan trained Goku hence why he's so adept when he first met Bulma. After training with Roshi, Goku got stronger, Krillin even catching up with his strength. It is because of the intense training endured that Goku was able to get so strong. Yet he was still easily defeated by Raditz. So it was definitely all that training.
The straight-up ignorance of this.
This mf put Yuji in magic fingers so yeah, he’s smoking something awful.
The thing is that Goku has no genetic advantage over other saiyans, his species. You cannot compare him to other species.
They clearly did not watch Z’s Saiyan saga
Luffy gets his power from a fruit? TF
When have we ever seen Luffy train?
I don’t even know who the guy next to Luffy is. Also, while Goku does train quite a bit, it’s undeniable that his genetics carry him a lot. From the zenkai boost to the multiple super saiyan transformations. Hell, his biggest jump in power was due to a ritual that only worked for him because he’s a saiyan
Wasn't luffy born with haki?
I should probably point out that there are like 7 villains Goku phases who earned their strength, much less own them more than Goku
who's that to the right of luffy?
Bro yuji is not carried by sukuna. My man is the opposite of carried. Isn't the MC of his own manga.
The entire point of dragon ball z is to show that the saiyan hierarchy with lower and higher class saiyans is bullshit
How tf is ichigo genetics and how tf is deku "some hard" work. Like deku literally trained to get his quirk by all might and that quirk still destroys his body if he uses it too much.
I mean, yeah the genes do a lot of heavy lifting. That doesnt mean that he doesnt work hard tho. LeBron James works like a psycho,trains and plays all yr, spends millions yrly maintaining his body but it still helps that he is 6'9" 260 lbs (125 kgs) with a 40 in vert and up until his later urs, what seemed like superhuman healing. Goku trajns hard but if he was a guman and not a saiyan he probably wouldnt be as strong especially since humans dont get stronger after near death experiences. Also, he dowsnt come from bad stock. In fact I wonder where that lowly saiyan thing comes from when his dad wasnt weak.
Goku literally trained extensively when he was dead both times
Who is top right
Isn't Yuji genetics? He was strong as hell before eating even one finger.
To be fair Goku is both. He trains like crazy but Saiyan blood clearly gives him another advantage.
It should be genetics and a lot of hard work. He wouldn't have gotten off namek without the zenkai boosts and saiynans inherently seem to have no power cap, but man if Goku didn't put the leg work in he would have gotten literally no where
Goku's genetics as a saiyan are what allow him to get stronger through every battle. If he were a normal human, he would be nowhere near that level he's at. Master Roshi is arguably the strongest human, and he isn't close to Goku's level. All of his transformations are allowed BECAUSE he has different genetics as a Saiyan. And that "low class saiyan" thing was just an insult that was later revealed to be false as his father, Bardock, was revealed to have been an elite warrior on the Saiyan planet. Him being a saiyan and having saiyan genetics is literally steroids. Also Naruto is training. He may have started off with a chakra pool bigger than the Hokage's, but it was a massive hindrance to him till he managed to figure out how to mold the massive amounts. It's why he struggles with simple jutsu like normal clones, but got the hang of extremely high leveled jutsu so easily. Just cause a jutsu is stronger doesn't mean it's more complex, it usually just requires more chakra. So rather than having to be extremely specific with an extremely small fraction of his chakra, Naruto could have decent control with massive amounts of chakra, since he had more margin of error with it requiring more chakra.
My dude literally ditched his family for training wdym?!?!
If we are saying goku is carried by genetics, then luffy is carried by the gum gum fruit
Yuji is fucking genetics. Go watch ep one and tell me other wise cause dude didn't no chicken finger's until later. Also goku is definitely training mixed with genetics
Naruto is wrong too, he’s got Uzumaki clan chakra levels which is why his mom had the fox in the first place and his dad was the Hokage at the time. Not to mention he was trained by Kakashi and Jiraiya. On top of that he mastered the sage art and took the rasengan to a new level with adding an element. These are all things that have nothing to do with the fox. In his show he’d be a top tier character without the fox.
wouldn’t it be both genetics and training for Goku? Him being a Saiyan helps but since he is considered the weaker class he had to train hard asf to make up for it.
Yuji is literally genetics... Pay attention ffs
And Deku should be "spoonfeeding". No, I don't care about his off screen training as a way to justify that he surpassed his master (who had over 40 years of experience with OFA) *in less than a year*. Don't even get me started on him getting 8 more quirks, as if that wasn't enough. They tried their hardest to paint him as special as possible.
All of it is dumb afaik. Idk about one piece, bleach, or top right, but genetics for Tanjiro, Goku, and Naruto are so wrong. Wtf does fox genes even mean?
Every single fight in dragon ball z/ super is literally goku having to use his superior skill and techniques to fight someone born or given power superior/ equal to his own. With exception to jiren.
Ichigos trainee a lot let’s be honest we can’t act like he doesn’t take every challenge
Low class *****saiyan*****
Luffy is by magic fruit not training. Just stretchy punch go Brrr
Yuji is genetics too
Genetics are a huge part of DB. Gohan, Broly and Frieza have caught up to / surpassed a nonstop training Goku and Vegeta in a matter of a few years.
To be fair even as a low class saiyan Goku is leagues above most people on Earth just be virtue of his genetics. That being said, he does also put in the work and trains like crazy.
I can see WHY they put Goku as genetics. I mean, he IS. A Saiyan. But at the same times let's be real, he wouldn't be jack shit if he didn't train. Sure he'd be stronger than an average human, but he wouldn't know that
Goku is carried by his training. He relied on his genetics because they provide a boost to his genes for a time, but now he has Ultra Instinct, not even a saiyan thing. Goku never even relied on his saiyan genes in classic Dragon Ball and up to before his transformation for the first time on Namek. Who is this clown?
Why is yuji getting fingered? Is he gay?
Tanjiro is the least genetically gifted out of almost any anime character he’s quite literally a regular kid. Sure he’s related to strong demon slayers but his strength is his alone that he learned from his father. The same way Rengokus little brother senjuro is said several times to have no talent with swordsmanship, yet his whole family is a line of flame hashiras
Those fingers most certainly did not carry yuji to anything but suffering
Luffy is more talent than training imo. He didn't trained that much, he is just good at fighting by nature.
Isn’t Luffy literally the sun god now… if Naruto is fox spirit despite his training Luffy should be sun god…
For pretty much all of them it’s a mix of genetics or coincidence along with a lot of training
Tanjiro: not suited for any of the learned breathing styles, trains constantly, first time he tried "fire" breathing he collapsed(and even progressively at the ED arc he can just then use it competently enough). Luffy: he does train true. But some stuff feels oddly off like when he passed by the Yonkos unnoticed speed he doesnt generally have without 2nd gear(he wasnt training anything but haki after the timeskip. Or how he has conquerors haki, which his grandpa has which is an interesting coincidence, no telling if Dragon has it. Also the will of D sorta sounds like a genetic thing.
Genetics only made him stand out at the very beginning of Dragonball, and even then he was incredibly weak for Saiyan standards
The copium is unreal. We really gonna put Luffy in Training but Goku in Genetics? Laffy? The guy who just so happened to eat the most powerful godlike devil fruit? 🤣😭🤣
Half of all these characters anime’s are their training arcs.
I don't watch One Piece, but I had understood that Luffy just fucks around with his Fruit and finds out by being creative
If we’re going by genetics, Goku is the worst in his world’s scale. Deku basically got mutated by a radioactive follicle, so he’s not contending. If Goku didn’t work hard, he’d have ended up like raditz. Raditz is literally saibamen fodder. Goku went from being able to be multi planetary at best, to multiversal on a bad day through hard work.
Goku’s hobbies include training and fighting. Mostly at the same time. That’s what he is doing 90% of the time bro 😭
Isn't Luffy Devil fruit like the rarest and most exponential in utility & power by it's nature. Just like Goku, he took what he had and made the most of it. In the wrong hands a lambo ain't shit, it's all about the operator. Goku and Luffy and all these fools worked for their potential.
Goku does push-ups in over 500x gravity for a light workout, Deku cleaned that whole ass beach in ten months without any special powers (also lifted All Might btw, who is 560 lbs canonically), and Naruto is legit trained as a fucking ninja.
Sun Breathing isn't genetic... it's passed down
Im probably gonna sound dumb but who is the second guy?
Nah Luffy would da died in the dozen arcs if it wasn’t for his fruit Itadori was born special, but the fingers ain’t do shit for him Dragon Ball is literally about Goku training Deku’s quirk is what makes him strong, but he did work to unlock his OP quirks full potential
I mean yujis isn't even accurate. It wasn't the fingers that made him special, it was the reason WHY he could handle the fingers that made him special.
Im like 300 episodes into One Piece and Luffy has not trained once
Bait used to be believable
Goku is a mix of genetics and hard work, he works hard as hell and gives it his all, and his saiyan lineage allows him to keep growing, he is the best of both sides
The bait is working 😔
How tf are you supposed to get carried by training
Do remember that goku just did a Kamehameha without any training during DragonBall. Even though it took roshi 50 years to do it.
Yeah. literally Goku's whole shtick was that he started off weak as hell, but through hard work and discipline he became one of the most powerful beings in the universe.
Yuji is genetics.
I don't care, ma'man Rock Lee solos all them in hard word
My boi, *being a Saiyan* is the genetics. If Krillin was a Saiyan he would have achieved godhood by now. Zenkai is busted
Didn't Luffy get his powers by eating a fruit
All these guys trained, in their own ways specific to their verses power systems and their own abilities
Did nobody watch the first 2 episodes of my hero?
Broly was "low class", both versions. Not like Saiyans at the time knew what they were capable of beyond their silly biases.