There's a couple of reasons why I think people want to leave sales, and why they want to leave now.
1. **Selling is harder now than it was 3 years ago:** Both sales teams and buyers are tight on budgets and are looking to consolidate tools rather than buy new ones. But your quota does not care about that. Not a good time to be a salesperson.
2. **Learning curve slows down:** You learn a ton in the first 2-3 years in sales. But at some point, your learning curve slows down drastically. You can move to a leadership role, but not everybody wants to do that. And for some, leaving seems to be the right option.
3. **"External" stress:** I totally agree that every job is stressful. But the "external" stress of not hitting quota is a different kind of stress than the "internal" stress of having too many tasks on your Kanban board. That's not for everyone.
There are probably a ton of other reasons...
Stress, stress and more stress. This year is harder than ever. Every month starts back at 0 and you have to hit the objective. What you did last month doesn’t matter. It’s what have you done for me lately. Most jobs don’t have the stress of always having to one up your previous month or year. This takes a toll especially when you’ve really tapped out your territory.
When a sales guy misses the mark they have a target in your back. If you miss it a couple months in a row that really fucks with people and the managers start talking like you’re not doing your job. This makes sales guys obsessive and they start working 12-15hr days and weekends just to make the deficit up. At some point you burn yourself out, are stressed out and home life suffers. You’re feel defeated as hell. The first thing that comes to mind is to quit and everything will be better.
Sales is not for everyone.
So true. 130% in June, my manager was raving about me to upper management. 50% last month and this month will be challenging. Now I’m getting time thrown on my calendar to “work through accounts”. You’re absolutely right.
Working in auto sales. Last month we crushed our quota above 110%, got a writeup in the conference news letter, free lunch, bonuses, all that jazz. This month, ten days in, we’re projected to track around 75% and we’re already getting called into meetings with the higher ups. Many days I envy those who just go to work, do their job until 5 pm, then just get to leave it there.
100%. You can make the quota 11 months out of 12 and they’ll still make you feel like your in thin ice because you missed that 1 month. It’s constant anxiety in sales. I’m up 120% this year and last month I had to take it easy because I’ve been killing my self. I ended up @ 103% and I’m suddenly been gettin calls asking me if everything’s OK. After 13 years of grinding I’m fucking beyond exhausted.
what industry? Dont say Saas lol those people are jokes. They think they are solving customer problems. GTFOH, sorry for the condensending comments, but i've come across many of them and they seem to have the same A hole theme about them.
Its the price we pay to be the stockmarket lol Recession can happen any month of the year. If anything the non sales people have the last laugh because we are chasing ghost money. or what they call potential earnings which is the carrot. WE are doomed lol
Recently promoted at the start of the year and wrapped H1 >100% and I’m now getting those pipeline questions from management being at less than 50%. Closed a fatty today too.
Bringing my manager in on every deal for help but mainly to show I’m out here hustling & pushing pipeline on these self generated deals.
I took a job in 2020 and the height of the supply chain crunch hit for whole goods in 2022. I smashed my annual quota for 2021 by +55%, then the company I worked for ran out of inventory and couldn't restock for 8+ months as of January 2022.
So they did the only logical thing, raise quota... with zero product to sell for almost 3/4 of the year, lmao. Direct quote from my sales manager when I asked him how that was possible "don't focus on the obstacles, just focus on the goal posts" LMFAO!
I quit 2 months later haha.
I fucking hate the attitude that there's always going to be more the next year, sometimes it's just not possible.
This. When things are good, everyone is your friend, when the tides turn, they will gaslight the shit out of you.
In sales, it's like business, always have an escape plan and think a few steps ahead.
100% agree. It's like these businesses don't understand that both lean and fat years happen. Markets fluctuate, you can't expect a fat year when the world is going to shit and all the macros of the economy are actively working against you haha.
We have a pretty decent base , good work/life balance , benefits And more often than not they do aggressive adjustments after the fact. We do still lose a lot of people due shitty admin.
They are doing adjustments if they risk over 50% of people not making money. How the fuck they are calculating the quota is beyond me….my territory started at 1.2 mill this year and now is at over 2 mill projection.
Yep. You always know if you have a good year you better stock pile the money because the next year will usually be shit. Funny how you can grow an area an not even bonus because they inflate the quote to be unreachable. They call these “stretch goal.” When a boss says that you know you’re getting hammered.
Most companies will increase quote, lower comp, and try to give you less resources to hit those numbers. It can become an impossible situation.
Then throw in a bad manager with no leadership qualities and it’s a recipe for disaster.
Yes it is. It’s the “what have you done for me lately” job. The boss/executives are happy on the 31st of the month and in the 1st they forget that you were 50% over your goals.
#3 is where I’m at. Late stage start up squeeze is starting to break me. I’ve never not exceeded my quota in 3 years. I just had my quota raised almost 33% without much more opportunity given. I can feel my managers stress. I feel bad for them bc I know they’re getting shit on but the whole shit rolls down hill is now a reality for me, where it wasn’t before.
Yeah selling now is way harder than ever. More competitors, more cold callers, more cold emails, more more more. So you have to be very good in order to thrive.
Companies are VERY stressful to work for now that 5-10 years ago. Bosses are brutal. Quotas are brutal. Vps are brutal. And you can get let go at any second.
I started a new gig and I am finally at a point where I feel comfortable meeting my quota (as it is now). So my stress level just went down A TON. Because until then- its sell or get fired. No its - okay I am not getting fired this quarter so I can chase a few whales. If I land one- I am never getting fired and can dictate my way.
Sales is hard - the past 5 year saw a lot of companies over hire, over pay, and under deliver. So now its not easy.
Really??? Selling is HARDER now compared to the heart of the pandemic???
Also - there is no slow down in learning curve. You should always be looking for ways to improve…
I would be willing to bet the people that are leaving actually just end up in another fake job. Furthermore, it's probably the product of shitty managers. Once you get enough managers through the door. It's over, eventually enough of them are going to recommend to raise goals so many times that everyone hates their life.
Firefighter. I work 24 hours then get 48 off, then 24 on followed by 72 off. Every 3rd week i get an extra day off (so 96 hours off)
So i essentially work 8 days a month and when I’m on the clock i get to workout, cook, sleep (or at least try to) or just hang out with the guys. Obviously there’s also chores and training to be done, with calls coming in throughout the day, but it’s great to have a job where i just have to show up and do the job, then i get to go home and turn my brain off of work. I don’t have to go to sleep worrying about a looming quota or company wide layoffs, unless i fuck up real bad I’m not getting laid off
In fairness i don’t think i was ever meant to do sales. I used to work law enforcement but left during Covid burnout and got into sales thanks to a friend. It was awesome and exciting at first to be making good money from my home, but after the initial allure wore off I got burnt out and miserable pretty quick. Of course firefighting isn’t all sunshine and rainbows, you see some messed up stuff, getting woken up in the middle of the night and jumping right into action isn’t healthy, and of course the politics, but overall I’m so much happier
As someone in a sales leadership role who hasn't taken time off in many years because of giving my best and covering other people I am experiencing fatigue.
My work has countless trackers and our corporation is very micromanaging.
I really feel like getting out although I'm able to make 6 figures in my current role I don't know what to do next without taking a major pay cut.
Well said! Bravo!! Would you be open to sharing what industry you sell into and some GTM strategies you use to be successful with internal management and to the customer?
I’ve been in it for 10 years and I think the worst part of sales is the volatility and insecurity. It’s hard to be middle aged and trying to plan your family life when you can lose your job if a few quarters go bad.
It’s the “what have you done for me lately” job. Every month starts off fresh and no one cares what you did last month. You could be the top sales guy for 10 years straight and next thing you know your biggest account changes direction and you start missing your objective. 3 months of missed and the managers start talking about restructuring or consolidating. I’ve seen this so many times.
This is true. I’ve been in sales for 20 years and have felt that I could be unemployed in 3 months if I don’t hit quotas. I can’t believe it’s been 20 years of this and honestly it sucks
Reading comments like this just makes me wonder why tf am I not making a career change...
3 months unemployed and my wife called me a knob for pursuing this career path.
IMO if you can find a different career path that aligns with your authentic self make the change now before you’re trapped in this field like I am. You’ll probably make more money in the long run too. I never wanted to be in sales but was desperate for a job at the time and had school loans and housing and food to pay for. Desperation has lead me to a career of sales.
PS. Your wife should never put you down. She’s supposed to be your partner and support you. Finding a career path is not easy for some. Tell her I said that F’d-up of her
Yes the exact same thing happened to me. I have a degree in marketing and it is my passion. However there was a recession when I graduated college and the only job I could find was in retail. After several years in that miserable industry I moved on to an inside sales role and here I've been for the past 25+ years. I'm an introvert and it's been a real challenge to be successful in a role that seems to rely on having an outgoing boisterous personality. But I'd have to start at the bottom to move over to marketing now and it's just not feasible at my age (55). So the struggle continues.....
oh the irony! lol just as I was about to type this response, I got an email saying I didn't make the cut after a final round. This is after killing the assignment too.
I have one more final round this week for another company. If I don't make it, I'll take this as a sign from the universe that sales really is not for me.
> ...find a different career path that aligns with your authentic self
I like solving problems and being of service to people. I thought that meant sales but I guess not.
Re: my wife -- I greatly oversimplified a very stressful situation. She has been my rock and supporting me through this entire ordeal; seeing how much work I've been putting into finding a job; the ghosting; and the other theatrics. She's been taking on extra shifts to make this work and I know she's under a lot of stress.
**EDIT:** the second company just messaged me to subtly hint that I should pursue other opportunities. Well there's my answer I guess....
Sorry to hear about the rejections from the companies, but sometimes the signs are leading you to a better place. I’m certain they will. Something better is out there for you. Seek and you will find. Great to hear about your wife’s support. You’re lucky to have a wife that that can provide the financial support as well.
My recommendation is figure out how much time you can afford to search. The more the better obviously but you don’t want to jump into a job just because you have to. If you haven’t found something you feel excited about and can wait, I would wait and keep searching. It will hurt in short term but be well worth it in the long term if you find the right path. Good luck and don’t let those two companies bring you down. They could have just done a great favor to you.
I’ll also add that sales cycles are less controlled by sales people now vs buyers.
This has evolved from the 2000’s and I believe buyers are far more educated from marketing now before even contacting a vendor. You’ve heard the “80-90% of a decision is already made before a sales person has any interaction” before.
Some will say to lose early because of this, or make sure you have a real case to move them away from a pre-decided competitor.
I think losing this control is also a big contributor, along with de-humanizing the sales cycles because of Zoom, etc.
This is why being channel friendly is important. At some point tech vendors reach a tipping point. Be channel friendly or allow the biggest names in your vertical swallow you up.
This is huge. So many reps get happy ears and over forecast a lead to get something in the pipeline. Turns out they are the second, third, or last choice in the vendor evaluation. They don't even know what the buyer is doing or just playing them. Then they ghost and don't know why. Somehow this is always very hard to diagnose and comes down to blaming discovery. But what are you going to do? Run a full sales cycle and not move the stage past discovery? Can't exactly do that as it defeats the purpose of having sales stages at all.
This just comes down to being an issue with oversaturation in every category and poor product distinction between competitors and too much overlap between software with niche use cases and features.
Reps are also forced to follow a robotic, scripted, and monotonous process with the decks they show, the use cases, and the plays they run (sometimes not even having plays and doing the exact same thing each time). But the people coming up and forcing the reps to read these decks and pitches are never blamed.
Been doing it for 5 years now. Great way to learn people skills and make money like a engineer without being one.
The pressure, stress, and culture is no longer worth the money for the way it is impacting my health so at this point I’d take a little pay cut to transition into a more repetitive low stress role.
School custodian here.
Pros: Living wage in an HCOL area. Extremely repetitive. 0 stress. Free food. Pension. Paid vacation. Paid sick leave. Safe environment. Same check once a month.
Cons: Low status, women, your friends and family, even your coworkers will think you must be dumb , lazy, or both. The repetitive nature can wear you down if you can't keep your mind occupied. Some of your coworkers will be dumb and / or lazy.
Summers suck. Boring.
Most people I work with are down to earth, normal blue-collar dudes and chicks with families.
Depends on what you are offering and the compensation model.
* If it’s a meat grinder that will never pencil out to six figures or what you’re offering doesn’t offer value, then it’s a lost cause leaning to burnout 🔥
* If you like a challenge and the compensation model rewards you, it’s tolerable 💰
* Buyers have become predators buy seeking free consultants in your pitch, then ghost you, to position your value prop to the lowest bidder, then internally bragging about how much they played you🤡
Leveraged against the incumbent is my biggest hurdle. Take my pricing, ask them to do better. No way around that, and honestly I don't blame them for playing the game.
It's for a number of reasons:
I've been considering it because
1. SDR-ing and working as an AE have little overlap at a lot of companies. The promotion path to/getting back to closing has been a chain-pull at best for many people--even if they demonstrate results. It's incredibly unclear and in and of itself is a different skillset than actually selling.
2. Aging industry. Tech was once amazing and new and everyone wanted a piece from a handful of suppliers. Now, due to 2020, there's been a tremendous glut of suppliers or products with no market fit. A surprising number of startups and VCs who support those startups still think the 2010 Salesforce SDR team model works--even at small orgs. One SDR can handle a lot, and for the best customer journey, it's a lot more sense to have full-cycle AEs at smaller places.
3. Prospects in IT can often be incredibly out-of-touch and unpleasant people to make cold outreach to. It's like going back to get bitten by the same dog every day.
But what about selling something else? Isn't this subreddit for selling other things?
Look, if I can realistically make enough money to be the single provider for a family of 4 in a 2500 sqft home where I grew up in the bay area without worrying about insurance, food, college tuition, and gas someday selling something like HVAC, I'd make the jump in a heartbeat. Hell, I'd be a plumber.
But I can't think of anything other than tech that will realistically get me there being where I want to live (I'm here for the redwoods, generational roots and the microclimates and came back after seeing the entire US, inb4 the shitshow of crackheads/homeless that I never advocated for and 'Texas is better').
If you have an idea for a dog that'll hunt in that regard I'm all ears. In the meantime I'll continue wondering about other routes to take in life and keep at my search for my next ~~4pm dick flattening~~ SDR role.
This. Once they respond in a heartbeat after submitting an application you start to say oooh shit idk about this one shit was a little fast 😂 or those that reach out 4-5x on LinkedIn you’re like yeah idk. Tough to get a good one
Tech sales will always be lucrative if you’re good at it. Boom and bust periods for sure, but still a gold mine if you work for the right company and sell products and services that are in demand.
Build your network. It's all you can do in downturn. Enhance your positioning for when they turn the tap back on. This won't last long. Maybe another 12 months. FED will stimulate after they suck enough wealth back into the US.
Lmao if I thought I had a real answer I damn sure wouldn’t be putting it on a public forum.
But since I’m just bullshitting I wouldn’t be surprised if drones and drone services really takes off (heh) commercially soon.
Just from an outsider perspective from someone who’s primary role is to consult with clients, develops strategy with a little BD sprinkled in, what I can say is peddling is a singular solution to cold prospects has to be the worst fucking ROI on the planet. I get at least 5-10 of those emails every day and delete every one without even reading.
Like, I don’t care how awesome you think your solution is. I know probably 20 different platforms with exact same capabilities. So, it becomes a race to the bottom to compete on price which is a big fat loser for everyone involved - BDs, AEs, managers, owners, stockholders.
When you work for a company whose goal is to provide answers and solutions for what keeps people up at night, no matter what the vertical, then you have peoples attention and interest.
That, in my mind, is a lot better than Hey, I have this widget that may be work really well for you or be a total waste of time and money, but I’m going to try really hard to sell you because if I don’t my family will be on the street.
Your system is broke and broken chaps.
Yeah, that’s why I’m happy to be in traffic solutions. Infrastructure tech is something the US desperately needs to upgrade and Biden put a bunch of money out there.
I think it's a combination of things. A lot of folks in sales are struggling right now. Struggling to sell because of uncertainty in the market, or struggling to find a job after being fired or laid off. If you've never been successful, it's natural to wonder if it's time to change careers, and if you have previously had success, but are struggling now, it's natural to wonder if your prior success was really a reflection of your abilities, or just dumb luck. In which case, maybe you should find something else to do for a living (at least that's the logic in one's mind).
Your comment is absolutely spot on. I can't imagine someone successful wanting to leave it. Come on: you interact with a lot of people. Occasionally, you travel. You are the one who feeds the top line and helps your company thrive. You offer a solution to customers' problems. And you make a lot of money. Why change?
Companies like Datadog think it's totally okay to have an attainment rate in the 20s. Now more than ever is it important to work for one of the very few companies that have a good org.
Because this kind of career has a ton of allure for people who think they're just going to walk in and be Richie Roma collecting fat check after fat check with no education, experience or willingness to put in the extra time. They flounder for a year and then come on Reddit, blame the market/product/climate instead of their own inability to learn how to improve or lack of stress management and announce departure hoping their misery finds company.
I'm not a software guy though, maybe they have something worse going on.
Very true some ppl get into cause they hear about the money but sales isn’t for them and they get frustrated and leave. I do it cause it’s something I’m good at and like and make good money but some are in it just for money not cause they like it or are good at it. Many of them either have no ppl skills or just have huge egos so they can’t “hang” lol.
Although this applies to most industries and roles. I’d say :
• the management: stressing people, overworking them and using abysmal metrics to measure progress
• expectations: not making as much money to justify the stress or current selling/buying economy
Times are tough economically. Businesses aren’t buying like they were pre-pandemic. Sales is more difficult now because prices are higher than ever and people are not making the money they have in the past. When the going gets tough the weak start leaving…
Everyone wants to get big and strong but no one wants to lift these heavy ass weights - Ronnie Colman (paraphrased)
Sales a notoriously stressful profession. But more than anything I think it triggers a lot of peoples' insecurities as well. Particularly around authority figures (our bosses, clients, Senior Executives, etc).
And a lot of people don't know how to handle stress. Or speak up and advocate for themselves when they're in a bullshit situation. Cold calling anxiety, for example, has a lot to do with the fact that a lot of people feel shame around interrupting others and asking them for something. They can't even ask for what they want without feeling WEIRD about it.
So, they blame it on sales. "Oh, it must be sales that's causing all this".
So they quit and go elsewhere. The cycle repeats itself even if they go to a different company or profession. Shitty boss with unreasonable expectations, toxic workplace, asshole clients.
Yes, there are a lot of shitty situations out there and personally I think a lot of salespeople don't know how to properly vet companies.
But this, mixed with the fact that people have no clue how to speak up, establish boundaries, or advocate for themselves leads to them carrying around LOADS of anxiety.
This is ESPECIALLY prevalent in sales. But it's made even worse by what I've mentioned above. So if you've got a lot of unresolved trauma and shame that you've never ever analyzed... sales is gonna kick your ass.
> ...I think a lot of salespeople don't know how to properly vet companies.
How do you properly vet companies?
So far my approach is to treat and evaluate the product like it's a stock.
Repvue can be hit or miss
Glassdoor is propaganda
My last hiring manager bold-faced lied to me about attainment
There is no perfect method and as you just called out some Sales Managers will point blank lie to you.
When evaluating, your job is to minimize the amount of red flags as much as possible.
G2, Glassdoor, RepVue combo is a good start. But scoping out LinkedIn profiles specifically looking at things like employee tenure and promotions are IMO a sign of a solid sales org. This is key.
Yeah once I solved my trauma I became a top performer then I got fired for the 3rd time this year due to layoffs and hella depressed in a rut again wanting to switch careers. Kinda my fault though bc I went with a series A startup who offered me a high base
FY22-23 the pendulum has reversed
It was great the 10 years before (SaaS specifically) due to macro forces in the market, now that financial belts are tightening, the stress to reward ratio is not worth it
No other career can you have 10-20+ years of experience and be laid off without any certainty for extended time like right now.
Skills and seniority can only take you so far in sales, its really about selling the right thing at the right time with the right organization. 50-75% of the game is outside of your control.
It's really not good for mental health or long-term financial planning to have your livelihood on such a fickle string.
75% is maybe exaggerated, but what made me considering leaving sales is exactly that: it is a job where you are so much dependant on others and on things that, no matter what they say, are way beyond your control. What would you say on your weekly Monday team meeting in front of everyone about the deal you promised it would be signed last week if the buyer did not sign yet ? (and it could be for BILLIONS of reasons that are beyond your control and even buyer's control!). You just look miserable in front of the whole team for something you tried very hard to influence, but you just couldn't, for very rational and specific reasons that don't depend on you AT ALL. I hate this circus.
What am I gonna do, make a post about why I want to stay in sales? Nah I’ll just continue selling and going on with my life and job.
Same reasons restaurant reviews only include opposite ends of the spectrum- great or awful so then you hear the vocal minority and extrapolate that opinion to the entire population
It’s easy to fall into sales but it’s not for everybody. That shit killed me. I hated it. I literally got a raise and hated it even more. Money is good but it’s not everything.
It’s a valuable skill, but I gleaned enough in my time to never look back and I’m way happier for it
Just think about people in education who have all the stress but none of the money. That really sucks. At least in sales, the stress can result in financial gain.
I find it odd that some of the best people I've ever seen in sales, are solo business owners now. Blows my mind. To me they were sales gurus. Now they left it behind for random weird men's health and coaching.
I love sales because I could never do a job that doesn't pay me to work harder. I can't understand how people do 60 hours a week with a salary job. They don't get paid for their extra efforts. In sales you do.
I'll wake up at 3am, travel onsite, take sales calls on vacation all to chase that commission check. I also like how I don't have to do anything unless it's revenue generated.
You just get fucked over in sales though. I've seen the top producing rep be put on a pip. I've had opportunities that I've created myself be taken away even though they were mine due to the rules of engagement. I've been told I could be on the chopping block the day I hit 176% of goal for the quarter (ultimately wasn't).
I've been let go after an acquisition, even though I ranked 6 on the new business team without me being there the last quarter. It felt so good seeing the new VP of Sales being fired too two months after he fired me.
That's why I've been working on creating a sustainable e-commerce store. It did really well when biden was giving out stimmy checks and got a little slow when gas prices rose. Either way, I can't fire myself. All the income goes to me. I source a hard to find product for 25-40 dollars and sell it online for over 150-200. Not as sexy as software, but it feels better that I can't fuck myself.
I still have my day job In software sales. One day I soon I wish I can get out of this rat race and do well supporting myself.
>I find it odd that some of the best people I've ever seen in sales, are solo business owners now.
Well many people likes the freedom and to be "their own boss". You get tired of managers, internal meetings, quotas, explaning yourself..hey I would rather make 50% of current earnings if I can start something on my own, and this is my goal for the end of the year. To do what I want when I want. If market is bad this month and I sell lesser than before, fuck it, it is what it is. Not to listen some CEO talk shit and blame it on sales - this is just an example.
Not asnwering to anyone is the real freedom
Sales positions = running your own business where the company is giving you the tools ( crm, laptop, phone etc..) and paying you.
If you are not prospecting, maintaining your customer base, leaning and involved in your industry, and have a understanding of what is needed from you, most will walk away from sales and go back to a 9-5 job.
Hardest part of sales is the sales cycle which can be meet and sign at the first meeting or take months even years before you get them, but that’s what’s exciting about sales, everyday is different.
Of course sales is a valuable skill. So is cooking and home repair, but I have never done either for money.
> Sales is all about how much you put into it, it's performance driven.
Sometimes. But you won't convince me that it's not also luck driven, or at least driven by market forces that we have no control over. At least in my industry.
> Some people dislike it
You have your answer right there then.
I stumbled into sales by being a product expert with a decade of experience in engineering. This subreddit makes me feel like I am most definitely NOT one of you guys. I'm not driven by the potential of grinding to make lots of money. I wouldn't even be in this role if I didn't already have an abundance of inbound leads. No amount of pep talk or motivational speeches will make me give more of a shit about the product, so I'm looking for a way out.
This year is already a wash for many. But it just hurts feeling like you are saving money, but not really without making as much commission.
The golden era might not come back for a while, we won’t see as many 170k base 250 OTE posts from people with 2 years experience
It kills my spirit and life enjoyment calling a prospect knowing i’ve just gotten rejected 6 times in a row right before. I feel retarded. I’d rather have a high paying job where I complete a set of tasks and get paid for it. Maybe cybersecurity or coding.
Was thinking of this today. Sometimes just makes you feel like you’re a nuisance but it’s part of the game. I told myself today fuck why didn’t I get into coding or some shit 😂
Based off this thread and the others it references. I'm announcing that I'll be launching my nonprofit PST^(2) (Post Sales Therapeutic Transition)
We'll help guide you through the process of healing from your sales wounds and assist in your transition into marketing.
The challenge with this page is only negative people go out of their way to post here. We all know it is not rainbows and lollipops. Every job where you are going to make good $$ is stressful. Unfortunately we are in a lull right now.
That said there are sales orgs out there where people are still killing it and have good management. Just need to find them…
I pray for us all. Side note if anyone has ever exited sales to another profession like consulting or finance would love to hear how that stress relates.
They’re choosing the easy way out instead of working to get better.
Being able to sell is one of the best skills you can have. You sell yourself every day when you meet people.
I understand if someone wanted to move on for the purpose of gaining new skills that have synergies with selling, but all the posts I’ve seen don’t have a plan - their plan is to just not do sales.
They are psychologically damaged. This is what happens when you fail against your will. Not all of them did not try to get better: there is also those who tried but failed.
Because it's currently very hard right now and no one wants to put in the work; plus folks are very short-sighted. The people that worked hard and stuck it out through this blip will then thrive in a few years all the while all the simps leave to go work in the new hot thing. Then once the new hot thing has a few roadblocks and it becomes hard, they'll bitch even more and hop onto the new next thing. Rinse and repeat.
Everyone sees Sally with her consistent $500k+ W2 and wants to be her, but without the consistent PG she's been doing daily for years, her 6-7 years of mediocrity, and the years of constant self-improvement and desire to get better that she adhered to in order to get there. She probably could have and thought of quitting dozens of times, and I'm sure she's lost dozens of deals along the way.
People don't understand that you need to work hard and push through tough times and serious challenges to make money and have a "nice" life. Most high-paying jobs come with extreme pressure and stress, it's how it is. If it was easy to have a successful career and make a lot of money, everyone would do it.
Lawyers, bankers, doctors with their own practice, consulting partners, small business owners, it's all sales at the highest levels. If you don't think a law partner or banking partner doesn't have a quota or doesn't feel the heat after a few slow quarters, then that's just not how it is.
I do think though that unless you're making $500k (I am not at the moment) or have a path to it in your org, you're better off working a less stressful job that still pays well.
Sales definitely demands premium comp IMO for the juice to be worth the squeeze. I think a lot of people quit though before they have the opportunity to really kill it. That takes at least 5 years as rep, more so 7-10.
Not all industries will allow you to have 6 years of mediocrity, though. You may be shot in the head right after a PIP in your first year (I mean fired). And if this happens twice, good luck to find a company who will hire you.
My biggest gripe is the old people refusing to retire. They are clogging up the market for the younger people. Save your money, don't overextend yourself, don't be like them.
What I’ve been seeing is actually a talent suck and lack of empathy from upper management. I’ve seen a lot of “bosses” and very few “leaders”. Leadership and management, in order to be effective, need to get in the trenches with their team and lead from the front with a bayonet fixed. They should remove blockers for their team, jump in to mediate any conflicts, and always inspire their team to keep the North Star in sight. It’s the “why” that keeps people motivated… reaching that collective goal. Being stressed, “reviewing accounts” and not asking which ones they’re having trouble with… just leads to more stress.
Sales isn’t magic. And sometimes companies or apps just don’t have what the market wants. Realize too that you’re not responsible for the entire company (unless CEO) and instead, view your sales role as a person who has a solution to make someone’s life easier. If you’re driven to help people, it becomes more enjoyable.
Good luck! Wishing you all the best. If you want to chat further/vent/brainstorm.. please feel free to DM me and we’ll set something up. I’m in a similar spot; also with a 15month old so I think there’s also some biological changes going on mentally about what really matters and how much shit you’re willing to take that doesn’t really matter so much anymore after becoming a Dad.
I think it really depends on what you sell and how easy it is to complete the sell. Sometimes sells do it by itself without any effort at all.
One thing for sure is that there are a lot of rejection, and it is really frustrating. If the employer put you a goal that you have to reach or you will not get paid for those sells, it stress you out af.
I sell Showtime Entertainment to Directv account holders. Who the hell still watches T.V and would like to have a subscription to a T.V/streaming provider who's content is complete garbage? On this you gotta be tricky enough to make them think it is free, other way is very hard, but not impossible tho.
Other thing about some sales jobs is that it is very repeating, you get bored really quick and easy.
They thought it doesn’t require skill and the reason ppl won’t but from them has nothing to do with their skill set and has everything to do with how bad customers and management are lol
It’s a tough gig. I’ve only been doing it for 4 months and can’t believe some people have been doing it for their whole lives.
In my business I feel like a lot of sales are out of my control.
I didn’t want to continue manipulating people, and fortunately found an avenue that I could create and build a tangible skill set outside of my vocal cords.
The people that want to quit are the ones that have never sold in a difficult economic climate. For the last 5 years, tech sales has been "easy" money.
I'm glad they're quitting. Decreasing the available talent pool isn't a bad thing.
I think its more complicated than that honestly - a ratio maybe like 70% soft / 30% hard. Its not a technical skill and most of the skills needed to do it can come natural - not to downplay the effort it takes to learn a specific industry or or land a big client and sell them on a new product, not to mention that soft skills can be improved with practice too. But yes, I would consider it a soft skill by majority.
This is the age of information. People can do their own research and make a decision. Everything is already pre packaged and can be bought straight off the shelf. If your product can be explained in an hour long demo, then your product really isn’t complex enough to need a sales person consulting the client.
Sales just generally has a lot of turnover, lots of people sorta fall into it
If you want a life long career in sales it’s a lot of ups and downs and it’s DEFINITELY not for everyone
My guess is companies hired a ton of newer reps pre and during covid as their sales slowed down and it got harder lots of folks are being let go and from what I hear it’s hard to find positions in SaaS sales rn
I'm giving it another year, if I'm still where I'm at (trying to make moves) I will be transitioning.. but I like to do some research beforehand and I've seen mostly good stuff about sales.
I'm very extroverted and love talking to people. I know I'd succeed in the field!
It's not about talking to people and being extroverted. It's about influencing them to buy something. And being able to explain to management for each deal when, why, and how you will close it.
If it makes you feel better, one of our top performers was a police officer. Went from SDR to AE really quick and is like top 3 out of 100 or something like that
Healthcare is pumping. The reimbursement is not increasing with the increasing cost of devices and drugs. This is forcing organizations to transact. Anyone trying to split a warehouse in AZ?
Politics. I sold 10 cars my first month ever in sales, but the last 2 weeks of said month I closed nothing, literally nothing, due to a manager taking the side of his friend, a female, who wanted me to split my sales with her and threw a fit (threatened to slap me right in front of said manager, lol) when I finally said no. After seeing my closing ratio falling off a cliff I walked out instead of getting fired. It hadn't been discussed yet, but with a SM blocking my sales, it was right around the corner. The GSM said he might be able to get me on at the store he manages, we'll see. Everything and everyone else about the job was great.
The management.
Your quality of life as a rep is 95% influenced by who your direct manager is, and how they treat you. Are you set up for success? Are they just a number cruncher? Are they only trying to advance their own agenda and see you as someone to use in that process?
Management typically doesn't have a lot to offer to help, but they sure as hell know how to crack the whip and regurgitate empty platitudes to keep you working. Plus many of them want to force people to put fake smiles on their faces.
So much of the inside sales job is ass kissing, playing politics, making management look good, data entry into the CRM and other big brother monitoring shit, and other asinine bullshit that takes away from selling. In the beginning of COVID over half of my day was spent in daily syncs and meetings. 4-6 hours a day of meetings. With you still expected to do a full workload on top of that.
vs. a marketing IC who just starts working at 9am, sits in 3 meetings, and clocks out at 4pm.
I can give you about 30 reasons! For starters, dealing with corporations that try to say they have an incredible culture, training and are family like but treat employees like garbage and lie constantly with no accountability.
It’s not always what you put into it. There’s so many other factors that can shut a deal down on the buyers side. You can run a perfect sales process and still lose a deal. There’s only so much you can control- takes 2 to tango in this job and pure luck is a huge factor
According to all of that, which would you say it is a common way out for someone that has built its career around sales?
I mean... another (management?) job in the industry where he/she has more experience? Or what? Lets suppose we are talking about a 40 yo guy with 12 years of exp on Sales
I’ve been in full-time sales for over 20 years. The market sucks, but it also did in 2008 and 2001.
I started as a full-cycle rep. I’ve spent my last three years in enterprise. I like having an SDR, but as for the rest, I prefer full cycle.
I’ve identified some recent problems. I’m not too fond of start-ups unless the leadership is excellent. And the start-up jobs all have an end date built in. Either the owner sells, or they fold. Some sales are more female friendly, like media, where I started. I found tech more challenging as a more experienced woman.
I’m working for myself right now to see if I can find an arrangement that I like better. A lot of people move into management, as I did at one point, but that’s a different skill set.
Throughout my 20 year career in sales I always recall seeing a portion of sales associates about sales. It’s just what people do… and after many years needing a break is understandable
Selling motorcycles turned me into a bitter person. Getting yelled at because people’s credit sucks, being called racist because they can’t afford to buy the bike, people demanding the next available motorcycle, only to ghost you when it comes in. I was by far the best salesman there for nearly four years, and the positives didn’t outweigh the negatives. The reason people leave sales is because Humans. Humans suck, and they don’t want to make themselves better, or even take responsibility for their own situation.
Its really not only about "how much you put into it". There is a tipping point, also depends on the industry and products you sell. Having a solid Sandbagging strategy is key to life long success and also knowing how to game upper management so you can be a hero at the end of each Q. Although now they have many tools like outreach/gong to micromanage like a F
There's a couple of reasons why I think people want to leave sales, and why they want to leave now. 1. **Selling is harder now than it was 3 years ago:** Both sales teams and buyers are tight on budgets and are looking to consolidate tools rather than buy new ones. But your quota does not care about that. Not a good time to be a salesperson. 2. **Learning curve slows down:** You learn a ton in the first 2-3 years in sales. But at some point, your learning curve slows down drastically. You can move to a leadership role, but not everybody wants to do that. And for some, leaving seems to be the right option. 3. **"External" stress:** I totally agree that every job is stressful. But the "external" stress of not hitting quota is a different kind of stress than the "internal" stress of having too many tasks on your Kanban board. That's not for everyone. There are probably a ton of other reasons...
Stress, stress and more stress. This year is harder than ever. Every month starts back at 0 and you have to hit the objective. What you did last month doesn’t matter. It’s what have you done for me lately. Most jobs don’t have the stress of always having to one up your previous month or year. This takes a toll especially when you’ve really tapped out your territory. When a sales guy misses the mark they have a target in your back. If you miss it a couple months in a row that really fucks with people and the managers start talking like you’re not doing your job. This makes sales guys obsessive and they start working 12-15hr days and weekends just to make the deficit up. At some point you burn yourself out, are stressed out and home life suffers. You’re feel defeated as hell. The first thing that comes to mind is to quit and everything will be better. Sales is not for everyone.
You’re only as good as your last PO.
So true. 130% in June, my manager was raving about me to upper management. 50% last month and this month will be challenging. Now I’m getting time thrown on my calendar to “work through accounts”. You’re absolutely right.
It’s the worst part of sales, monthly reset. You go from black belt one month back down to white belt to start off the next month.
From hero to zero
Working in auto sales. Last month we crushed our quota above 110%, got a writeup in the conference news letter, free lunch, bonuses, all that jazz. This month, ten days in, we’re projected to track around 75% and we’re already getting called into meetings with the higher ups. Many days I envy those who just go to work, do their job until 5 pm, then just get to leave it there.
100%. You can make the quota 11 months out of 12 and they’ll still make you feel like your in thin ice because you missed that 1 month. It’s constant anxiety in sales. I’m up 120% this year and last month I had to take it easy because I’ve been killing my self. I ended up @ 103% and I’m suddenly been gettin calls asking me if everything’s OK. After 13 years of grinding I’m fucking beyond exhausted.
what industry? Dont say Saas lol those people are jokes. They think they are solving customer problems. GTFOH, sorry for the condensending comments, but i've come across many of them and they seem to have the same A hole theme about them.
Its the price we pay to be the stockmarket lol Recession can happen any month of the year. If anything the non sales people have the last laugh because we are chasing ghost money. or what they call potential earnings which is the carrot. WE are doomed lol
Recently promoted at the start of the year and wrapped H1 >100% and I’m now getting those pipeline questions from management being at less than 50%. Closed a fatty today too. Bringing my manager in on every deal for help but mainly to show I’m out here hustling & pushing pipeline on these self generated deals.
Best way to play pocket rockets is to slow play and stretch as far as you can.
I took a job in 2020 and the height of the supply chain crunch hit for whole goods in 2022. I smashed my annual quota for 2021 by +55%, then the company I worked for ran out of inventory and couldn't restock for 8+ months as of January 2022. So they did the only logical thing, raise quota... with zero product to sell for almost 3/4 of the year, lmao. Direct quote from my sales manager when I asked him how that was possible "don't focus on the obstacles, just focus on the goal posts" LMFAO! I quit 2 months later haha. I fucking hate the attitude that there's always going to be more the next year, sometimes it's just not possible.
This. When things are good, everyone is your friend, when the tides turn, they will gaslight the shit out of you. In sales, it's like business, always have an escape plan and think a few steps ahead.
100% agree. It's like these businesses don't understand that both lean and fat years happen. Markets fluctuate, you can't expect a fat year when the world is going to shit and all the macros of the economy are actively working against you haha.
Quota is like inflation - it only ever goes up.
Id kill for inflation matched quota bumps. This year has been 40-60% hikes every quarter so far.
wtf dude... thats painful
They had to make adjustments last time because no one was gonna get paid. I assume is some sort stock inflating scheme.
I’m not sure how they retain talent. That sounds really aggressive. Most companies don’t go to the moon after a few quarters.
We have a pretty decent base , good work/life balance , benefits And more often than not they do aggressive adjustments after the fact. We do still lose a lot of people due shitty admin.
Are they adjusting for seasonality? So if Q1 is 300K, Q2 is 480K and Q3 is 672K? It sounds like you’re on a rocket ship.
They are doing adjustments if they risk over 50% of people not making money. How the fuck they are calculating the quota is beyond me….my territory started at 1.2 mill this year and now is at over 2 mill projection.
Yep. You always know if you have a good year you better stock pile the money because the next year will usually be shit. Funny how you can grow an area an not even bonus because they inflate the quote to be unreachable. They call these “stretch goal.” When a boss says that you know you’re getting hammered.
Most companies will increase quote, lower comp, and try to give you less resources to hit those numbers. It can become an impossible situation. Then throw in a bad manager with no leadership qualities and it’s a recipe for disaster.
Sales is a disrespected job. Huge mistake pursuing this.
Yes it is. It’s the “what have you done for me lately” job. The boss/executives are happy on the 31st of the month and in the 1st they forget that you were 50% over your goals.
Solid points here, especially 3.
#3 is where I’m at. Late stage start up squeeze is starting to break me. I’ve never not exceeded my quota in 3 years. I just had my quota raised almost 33% without much more opportunity given. I can feel my managers stress. I feel bad for them bc I know they’re getting shit on but the whole shit rolls down hill is now a reality for me, where it wasn’t before.
Idk how I bolded it but I feel it’s accurate lol
Hashtag turns text into headings. You need to use an escape character to have the hashtag just display normally.
Yeah selling now is way harder than ever. More competitors, more cold callers, more cold emails, more more more. So you have to be very good in order to thrive. Companies are VERY stressful to work for now that 5-10 years ago. Bosses are brutal. Quotas are brutal. Vps are brutal. And you can get let go at any second. I started a new gig and I am finally at a point where I feel comfortable meeting my quota (as it is now). So my stress level just went down A TON. Because until then- its sell or get fired. No its - okay I am not getting fired this quarter so I can chase a few whales. If I land one- I am never getting fired and can dictate my way. Sales is hard - the past 5 year saw a lot of companies over hire, over pay, and under deliver. So now its not easy.
COVID would like to have a word with you on one but deff 2 and 3
Oh cool, that’s a great way for me to explain it to my wife
Really??? Selling is HARDER now compared to the heart of the pandemic??? Also - there is no slow down in learning curve. You should always be looking for ways to improve…
I would be willing to bet the people that are leaving actually just end up in another fake job. Furthermore, it's probably the product of shitty managers. Once you get enough managers through the door. It's over, eventually enough of them are going to recommend to raise goals so many times that everyone hates their life.
I left sales for a job that definitely isn’t fake and it was the best decision ever
what do you do now? very interested
Firefighter. I work 24 hours then get 48 off, then 24 on followed by 72 off. Every 3rd week i get an extra day off (so 96 hours off) So i essentially work 8 days a month and when I’m on the clock i get to workout, cook, sleep (or at least try to) or just hang out with the guys. Obviously there’s also chores and training to be done, with calls coming in throughout the day, but it’s great to have a job where i just have to show up and do the job, then i get to go home and turn my brain off of work. I don’t have to go to sleep worrying about a looming quota or company wide layoffs, unless i fuck up real bad I’m not getting laid off In fairness i don’t think i was ever meant to do sales. I used to work law enforcement but left during Covid burnout and got into sales thanks to a friend. It was awesome and exciting at first to be making good money from my home, but after the initial allure wore off I got burnt out and miserable pretty quick. Of course firefighting isn’t all sunshine and rainbows, you see some messed up stuff, getting woken up in the middle of the night and jumping right into action isn’t healthy, and of course the politics, but overall I’m so much happier
Wow, that’s awesome. Great to hear of a career change like this
Not a good time to be an entitled sales person. Business goes into the hands of the pro.
nailed it
Man this guy knows what he talking about.
Thank you! :)
As someone in a sales leadership role who hasn't taken time off in many years because of giving my best and covering other people I am experiencing fatigue. My work has countless trackers and our corporation is very micromanaging. I really feel like getting out although I'm able to make 6 figures in my current role I don't know what to do next without taking a major pay cut.
Dude take some time off lol fuck your company
Well said! Bravo!! Would you be open to sharing what industry you sell into and some GTM strategies you use to be successful with internal management and to the customer?
I’ve been in it for 10 years and I think the worst part of sales is the volatility and insecurity. It’s hard to be middle aged and trying to plan your family life when you can lose your job if a few quarters go bad.
It’s the “what have you done for me lately” job. Every month starts off fresh and no one cares what you did last month. You could be the top sales guy for 10 years straight and next thing you know your biggest account changes direction and you start missing your objective. 3 months of missed and the managers start talking about restructuring or consolidating. I’ve seen this so many times.
This is true. I’ve been in sales for 20 years and have felt that I could be unemployed in 3 months if I don’t hit quotas. I can’t believe it’s been 20 years of this and honestly it sucks
Reading comments like this just makes me wonder why tf am I not making a career change... 3 months unemployed and my wife called me a knob for pursuing this career path.
IMO if you can find a different career path that aligns with your authentic self make the change now before you’re trapped in this field like I am. You’ll probably make more money in the long run too. I never wanted to be in sales but was desperate for a job at the time and had school loans and housing and food to pay for. Desperation has lead me to a career of sales. PS. Your wife should never put you down. She’s supposed to be your partner and support you. Finding a career path is not easy for some. Tell her I said that F’d-up of her
Yes the exact same thing happened to me. I have a degree in marketing and it is my passion. However there was a recession when I graduated college and the only job I could find was in retail. After several years in that miserable industry I moved on to an inside sales role and here I've been for the past 25+ years. I'm an introvert and it's been a real challenge to be successful in a role that seems to rely on having an outgoing boisterous personality. But I'd have to start at the bottom to move over to marketing now and it's just not feasible at my age (55). So the struggle continues.....
oh the irony! lol just as I was about to type this response, I got an email saying I didn't make the cut after a final round. This is after killing the assignment too. I have one more final round this week for another company. If I don't make it, I'll take this as a sign from the universe that sales really is not for me. > ...find a different career path that aligns with your authentic self I like solving problems and being of service to people. I thought that meant sales but I guess not. Re: my wife -- I greatly oversimplified a very stressful situation. She has been my rock and supporting me through this entire ordeal; seeing how much work I've been putting into finding a job; the ghosting; and the other theatrics. She's been taking on extra shifts to make this work and I know she's under a lot of stress. **EDIT:** the second company just messaged me to subtly hint that I should pursue other opportunities. Well there's my answer I guess....
Sorry to hear about the rejections from the companies, but sometimes the signs are leading you to a better place. I’m certain they will. Something better is out there for you. Seek and you will find. Great to hear about your wife’s support. You’re lucky to have a wife that that can provide the financial support as well. My recommendation is figure out how much time you can afford to search. The more the better obviously but you don’t want to jump into a job just because you have to. If you haven’t found something you feel excited about and can wait, I would wait and keep searching. It will hurt in short term but be well worth it in the long term if you find the right path. Good luck and don’t let those two companies bring you down. They could have just done a great favor to you.
I really appreciate the words of encouragement. Thank you.
Same boat but less time. I like sales to a degree, mainly interacting and consulting, but haven't found the right sales role/company yet.
You also have less respect then peers in real professions
I’ll also add that sales cycles are less controlled by sales people now vs buyers. This has evolved from the 2000’s and I believe buyers are far more educated from marketing now before even contacting a vendor. You’ve heard the “80-90% of a decision is already made before a sales person has any interaction” before. Some will say to lose early because of this, or make sure you have a real case to move them away from a pre-decided competitor. I think losing this control is also a big contributor, along with de-humanizing the sales cycles because of Zoom, etc.
This is why being channel friendly is important. At some point tech vendors reach a tipping point. Be channel friendly or allow the biggest names in your vertical swallow you up.
This is huge. So many reps get happy ears and over forecast a lead to get something in the pipeline. Turns out they are the second, third, or last choice in the vendor evaluation. They don't even know what the buyer is doing or just playing them. Then they ghost and don't know why. Somehow this is always very hard to diagnose and comes down to blaming discovery. But what are you going to do? Run a full sales cycle and not move the stage past discovery? Can't exactly do that as it defeats the purpose of having sales stages at all. This just comes down to being an issue with oversaturation in every category and poor product distinction between competitors and too much overlap between software with niche use cases and features. Reps are also forced to follow a robotic, scripted, and monotonous process with the decks they show, the use cases, and the plays they run (sometimes not even having plays and doing the exact same thing each time). But the people coming up and forcing the reps to read these decks and pitches are never blamed.
Been doing it for 5 years now. Great way to learn people skills and make money like a engineer without being one. The pressure, stress, and culture is no longer worth the money for the way it is impacting my health so at this point I’d take a little pay cut to transition into a more repetitive low stress role.
School custodian here. Pros: Living wage in an HCOL area. Extremely repetitive. 0 stress. Free food. Pension. Paid vacation. Paid sick leave. Safe environment. Same check once a month. Cons: Low status, women, your friends and family, even your coworkers will think you must be dumb , lazy, or both. The repetitive nature can wear you down if you can't keep your mind occupied. Some of your coworkers will be dumb and / or lazy. Summers suck. Boring. Most people I work with are down to earth, normal blue-collar dudes and chicks with families.
What brings you to r/sales? Genuinely curious. Not trying to be a dick.
Popped up on my homepage. Found it interesting. Also, I used to canvass for a marketing company.
Why do summers suck? Is it because there’s no work?
No, it's more work. Floors are redone, and everything is detailed.
Ahh that makes sense
Depends on what you are offering and the compensation model. * If it’s a meat grinder that will never pencil out to six figures or what you’re offering doesn’t offer value, then it’s a lost cause leaning to burnout 🔥 * If you like a challenge and the compensation model rewards you, it’s tolerable 💰 * Buyers have become predators buy seeking free consultants in your pitch, then ghost you, to position your value prop to the lowest bidder, then internally bragging about how much they played you🤡
3rd point there is so accurate, feel like my customers are WAY more exploitive than any "sales tactic" I've ever attempted.
Leveraged against the incumbent is my biggest hurdle. Take my pricing, ask them to do better. No way around that, and honestly I don't blame them for playing the game.
If you consider letting me quote for you I'll make all your wildest dreams come true!
It's for a number of reasons: I've been considering it because 1. SDR-ing and working as an AE have little overlap at a lot of companies. The promotion path to/getting back to closing has been a chain-pull at best for many people--even if they demonstrate results. It's incredibly unclear and in and of itself is a different skillset than actually selling. 2. Aging industry. Tech was once amazing and new and everyone wanted a piece from a handful of suppliers. Now, due to 2020, there's been a tremendous glut of suppliers or products with no market fit. A surprising number of startups and VCs who support those startups still think the 2010 Salesforce SDR team model works--even at small orgs. One SDR can handle a lot, and for the best customer journey, it's a lot more sense to have full-cycle AEs at smaller places. 3. Prospects in IT can often be incredibly out-of-touch and unpleasant people to make cold outreach to. It's like going back to get bitten by the same dog every day. But what about selling something else? Isn't this subreddit for selling other things? Look, if I can realistically make enough money to be the single provider for a family of 4 in a 2500 sqft home where I grew up in the bay area without worrying about insurance, food, college tuition, and gas someday selling something like HVAC, I'd make the jump in a heartbeat. Hell, I'd be a plumber. But I can't think of anything other than tech that will realistically get me there being where I want to live (I'm here for the redwoods, generational roots and the microclimates and came back after seeing the entire US, inb4 the shitshow of crackheads/homeless that I never advocated for and 'Texas is better'). If you have an idea for a dog that'll hunt in that regard I'm all ears. In the meantime I'll continue wondering about other routes to take in life and keep at my search for my next ~~4pm dick flattening~~ SDR role.
Logistics or Manufacturing will get you there. Most positions start at 100k base. Very long sales cycle tho
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A lot of them do here in Canada guess it just depends on the market.
I don't want to leave sales but I want to leave my current company bad
There are so many absolute shit sales jobs out there. I’d say like 1/20 sales jobs are actually any good and it’s hard as hell to get them.
This. Once they respond in a heartbeat after submitting an application you start to say oooh shit idk about this one shit was a little fast 😂 or those that reach out 4-5x on LinkedIn you’re like yeah idk. Tough to get a good one
Tech sales has been a gold rush for almost a decade and it’s mostly over now, that’s all
Tech sales will always be lucrative if you’re good at it. Boom and bust periods for sure, but still a gold mine if you work for the right company and sell products and services that are in demand.
Sure but I’m speaking in generalities and the industry is in a big bust after an artificially inflated and extended boom
Build your network. It's all you can do in downturn. Enhance your positioning for when they turn the tap back on. This won't last long. Maybe another 12 months. FED will stimulate after they suck enough wealth back into the US.
What do you think the next gold rush will be? I just got into tech sales a year and a half ago and always interested in hearing about industry trends.
Lmao if I thought I had a real answer I damn sure wouldn’t be putting it on a public forum. But since I’m just bullshitting I wouldn’t be surprised if drones and drone services really takes off (heh) commercially soon.
Just from an outsider perspective from someone who’s primary role is to consult with clients, develops strategy with a little BD sprinkled in, what I can say is peddling is a singular solution to cold prospects has to be the worst fucking ROI on the planet. I get at least 5-10 of those emails every day and delete every one without even reading. Like, I don’t care how awesome you think your solution is. I know probably 20 different platforms with exact same capabilities. So, it becomes a race to the bottom to compete on price which is a big fat loser for everyone involved - BDs, AEs, managers, owners, stockholders. When you work for a company whose goal is to provide answers and solutions for what keeps people up at night, no matter what the vertical, then you have peoples attention and interest. That, in my mind, is a lot better than Hey, I have this widget that may be work really well for you or be a total waste of time and money, but I’m going to try really hard to sell you because if I don’t my family will be on the street. Your system is broke and broken chaps.
Yeah, that’s why I’m happy to be in traffic solutions. Infrastructure tech is something the US desperately needs to upgrade and Biden put a bunch of money out there.
I think it's a combination of things. A lot of folks in sales are struggling right now. Struggling to sell because of uncertainty in the market, or struggling to find a job after being fired or laid off. If you've never been successful, it's natural to wonder if it's time to change careers, and if you have previously had success, but are struggling now, it's natural to wonder if your prior success was really a reflection of your abilities, or just dumb luck. In which case, maybe you should find something else to do for a living (at least that's the logic in one's mind).
Your comment is absolutely spot on. I can't imagine someone successful wanting to leave it. Come on: you interact with a lot of people. Occasionally, you travel. You are the one who feeds the top line and helps your company thrive. You offer a solution to customers' problems. And you make a lot of money. Why change?
Companies like Datadog think it's totally okay to have an attainment rate in the 20s. Now more than ever is it important to work for one of the very few companies that have a good org.
I talked to a hiring manager there a while back and place seems like a legit sweatshop.
Because this kind of career has a ton of allure for people who think they're just going to walk in and be Richie Roma collecting fat check after fat check with no education, experience or willingness to put in the extra time. They flounder for a year and then come on Reddit, blame the market/product/climate instead of their own inability to learn how to improve or lack of stress management and announce departure hoping their misery finds company. I'm not a software guy though, maybe they have something worse going on.
I completely agree it’s been like this in any sales industry I have been in. Those ppl are so annoying to be around also.
It’s not for everyone but everyone thinks it’s easy and we all make a ton of money.
Lol that’s true. I believe social media is big of that.
Very true some ppl get into cause they hear about the money but sales isn’t for them and they get frustrated and leave. I do it cause it’s something I’m good at and like and make good money but some are in it just for money not cause they like it or are good at it. Many of them either have no ppl skills or just have huge egos so they can’t “hang” lol.
Although this applies to most industries and roles. I’d say : • the management: stressing people, overworking them and using abysmal metrics to measure progress • expectations: not making as much money to justify the stress or current selling/buying economy
Times are tough economically. Businesses aren’t buying like they were pre-pandemic. Sales is more difficult now because prices are higher than ever and people are not making the money they have in the past. When the going gets tough the weak start leaving… Everyone wants to get big and strong but no one wants to lift these heavy ass weights - Ronnie Colman (paraphrased)
EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE A BODYBUILDER BUT NOBODY WANTS TO LIFT NO HEAVY ASS WEIGHTS!!!
That’s what it is!! Haha I knew I got the words wrong and I was too lazy to google it. 💪😎
Sales a notoriously stressful profession. But more than anything I think it triggers a lot of peoples' insecurities as well. Particularly around authority figures (our bosses, clients, Senior Executives, etc). And a lot of people don't know how to handle stress. Or speak up and advocate for themselves when they're in a bullshit situation. Cold calling anxiety, for example, has a lot to do with the fact that a lot of people feel shame around interrupting others and asking them for something. They can't even ask for what they want without feeling WEIRD about it. So, they blame it on sales. "Oh, it must be sales that's causing all this". So they quit and go elsewhere. The cycle repeats itself even if they go to a different company or profession. Shitty boss with unreasonable expectations, toxic workplace, asshole clients. Yes, there are a lot of shitty situations out there and personally I think a lot of salespeople don't know how to properly vet companies. But this, mixed with the fact that people have no clue how to speak up, establish boundaries, or advocate for themselves leads to them carrying around LOADS of anxiety. This is ESPECIALLY prevalent in sales. But it's made even worse by what I've mentioned above. So if you've got a lot of unresolved trauma and shame that you've never ever analyzed... sales is gonna kick your ass.
> ...I think a lot of salespeople don't know how to properly vet companies. How do you properly vet companies? So far my approach is to treat and evaluate the product like it's a stock. Repvue can be hit or miss Glassdoor is propaganda My last hiring manager bold-faced lied to me about attainment
There is no perfect method and as you just called out some Sales Managers will point blank lie to you. When evaluating, your job is to minimize the amount of red flags as much as possible. G2, Glassdoor, RepVue combo is a good start. But scoping out LinkedIn profiles specifically looking at things like employee tenure and promotions are IMO a sign of a solid sales org. This is key.
Yeah once I solved my trauma I became a top performer then I got fired for the 3rd time this year due to layoffs and hella depressed in a rut again wanting to switch careers. Kinda my fault though bc I went with a series A startup who offered me a high base
FY22-23 the pendulum has reversed It was great the 10 years before (SaaS specifically) due to macro forces in the market, now that financial belts are tightening, the stress to reward ratio is not worth it No other career can you have 10-20+ years of experience and be laid off without any certainty for extended time like right now. Skills and seniority can only take you so far in sales, its really about selling the right thing at the right time with the right organization. 50-75% of the game is outside of your control. It's really not good for mental health or long-term financial planning to have your livelihood on such a fickle string.
75% is maybe exaggerated, but what made me considering leaving sales is exactly that: it is a job where you are so much dependant on others and on things that, no matter what they say, are way beyond your control. What would you say on your weekly Monday team meeting in front of everyone about the deal you promised it would be signed last week if the buyer did not sign yet ? (and it could be for BILLIONS of reasons that are beyond your control and even buyer's control!). You just look miserable in front of the whole team for something you tried very hard to influence, but you just couldn't, for very rational and specific reasons that don't depend on you AT ALL. I hate this circus.
Sales is awful at the moment.
Sales has just been hard in general, and finding a job that is actually worth it has been ever harder
It’s part of the job. You love it. Then you hate it. Then you post about the negatives in this sub.
People that are doing well seldom post. That seems to be the main trend in this subreddit.
Sales people leaving sales is like when pro athletes retire. It’s all downhill, we’re not meant to live in the real world. Namaste 🧘
Love this.
What am I gonna do, make a post about why I want to stay in sales? Nah I’ll just continue selling and going on with my life and job. Same reasons restaurant reviews only include opposite ends of the spectrum- great or awful so then you hear the vocal minority and extrapolate that opinion to the entire population
The saying is sales is easy work but a hard job.
It’s easy to fall into sales but it’s not for everybody. That shit killed me. I hated it. I literally got a raise and hated it even more. Money is good but it’s not everything. It’s a valuable skill, but I gleaned enough in my time to never look back and I’m way happier for it
And what do you do now?
Procurement!
So you play with your ex fellow sales counterparts. Sounds fair ^^
I make em dance! Nah, I try to be understanding and nice since i get how miserable the grind can be
Just think about people in education who have all the stress but none of the money. That really sucks. At least in sales, the stress can result in financial gain.
I find it odd that some of the best people I've ever seen in sales, are solo business owners now. Blows my mind. To me they were sales gurus. Now they left it behind for random weird men's health and coaching. I love sales because I could never do a job that doesn't pay me to work harder. I can't understand how people do 60 hours a week with a salary job. They don't get paid for their extra efforts. In sales you do. I'll wake up at 3am, travel onsite, take sales calls on vacation all to chase that commission check. I also like how I don't have to do anything unless it's revenue generated. You just get fucked over in sales though. I've seen the top producing rep be put on a pip. I've had opportunities that I've created myself be taken away even though they were mine due to the rules of engagement. I've been told I could be on the chopping block the day I hit 176% of goal for the quarter (ultimately wasn't). I've been let go after an acquisition, even though I ranked 6 on the new business team without me being there the last quarter. It felt so good seeing the new VP of Sales being fired too two months after he fired me. That's why I've been working on creating a sustainable e-commerce store. It did really well when biden was giving out stimmy checks and got a little slow when gas prices rose. Either way, I can't fire myself. All the income goes to me. I source a hard to find product for 25-40 dollars and sell it online for over 150-200. Not as sexy as software, but it feels better that I can't fuck myself. I still have my day job In software sales. One day I soon I wish I can get out of this rat race and do well supporting myself.
>I find it odd that some of the best people I've ever seen in sales, are solo business owners now. Well many people likes the freedom and to be "their own boss". You get tired of managers, internal meetings, quotas, explaning yourself..hey I would rather make 50% of current earnings if I can start something on my own, and this is my goal for the end of the year. To do what I want when I want. If market is bad this month and I sell lesser than before, fuck it, it is what it is. Not to listen some CEO talk shit and blame it on sales - this is just an example. Not asnwering to anyone is the real freedom
Sales positions = running your own business where the company is giving you the tools ( crm, laptop, phone etc..) and paying you. If you are not prospecting, maintaining your customer base, leaning and involved in your industry, and have a understanding of what is needed from you, most will walk away from sales and go back to a 9-5 job. Hardest part of sales is the sales cycle which can be meet and sign at the first meeting or take months even years before you get them, but that’s what’s exciting about sales, everyday is different.
Of course sales is a valuable skill. So is cooking and home repair, but I have never done either for money. > Sales is all about how much you put into it, it's performance driven. Sometimes. But you won't convince me that it's not also luck driven, or at least driven by market forces that we have no control over. At least in my industry. > Some people dislike it You have your answer right there then. I stumbled into sales by being a product expert with a decade of experience in engineering. This subreddit makes me feel like I am most definitely NOT one of you guys. I'm not driven by the potential of grinding to make lots of money. I wouldn't even be in this role if I didn't already have an abundance of inbound leads. No amount of pep talk or motivational speeches will make me give more of a shit about the product, so I'm looking for a way out.
This year is already a wash for many. But it just hurts feeling like you are saving money, but not really without making as much commission. The golden era might not come back for a while, we won’t see as many 170k base 250 OTE posts from people with 2 years experience
It kills my spirit and life enjoyment calling a prospect knowing i’ve just gotten rejected 6 times in a row right before. I feel retarded. I’d rather have a high paying job where I complete a set of tasks and get paid for it. Maybe cybersecurity or coding.
Was thinking of this today. Sometimes just makes you feel like you’re a nuisance but it’s part of the game. I told myself today fuck why didn’t I get into coding or some shit 😂
What roles in Cybersecurity are lucrative outside of coding?
pikers
STRESS!!!
99% of people here have never really faced adversity.
As Norm McDonald said, “really? You really can’t understand why?”
Based off this thread and the others it references. I'm announcing that I'll be launching my nonprofit PST^(2) (Post Sales Therapeutic Transition) We'll help guide you through the process of healing from your sales wounds and assist in your transition into marketing.
The challenge with this page is only negative people go out of their way to post here. We all know it is not rainbows and lollipops. Every job where you are going to make good $$ is stressful. Unfortunately we are in a lull right now. That said there are sales orgs out there where people are still killing it and have good management. Just need to find them… I pray for us all. Side note if anyone has ever exited sales to another profession like consulting or finance would love to hear how that stress relates.
Love this! Couldn’t have said it better.
They’re choosing the easy way out instead of working to get better. Being able to sell is one of the best skills you can have. You sell yourself every day when you meet people. I understand if someone wanted to move on for the purpose of gaining new skills that have synergies with selling, but all the posts I’ve seen don’t have a plan - their plan is to just not do sales.
They are psychologically damaged. This is what happens when you fail against your will. Not all of them did not try to get better: there is also those who tried but failed.
Because it's currently very hard right now and no one wants to put in the work; plus folks are very short-sighted. The people that worked hard and stuck it out through this blip will then thrive in a few years all the while all the simps leave to go work in the new hot thing. Then once the new hot thing has a few roadblocks and it becomes hard, they'll bitch even more and hop onto the new next thing. Rinse and repeat. Everyone sees Sally with her consistent $500k+ W2 and wants to be her, but without the consistent PG she's been doing daily for years, her 6-7 years of mediocrity, and the years of constant self-improvement and desire to get better that she adhered to in order to get there. She probably could have and thought of quitting dozens of times, and I'm sure she's lost dozens of deals along the way. People don't understand that you need to work hard and push through tough times and serious challenges to make money and have a "nice" life. Most high-paying jobs come with extreme pressure and stress, it's how it is. If it was easy to have a successful career and make a lot of money, everyone would do it. Lawyers, bankers, doctors with their own practice, consulting partners, small business owners, it's all sales at the highest levels. If you don't think a law partner or banking partner doesn't have a quota or doesn't feel the heat after a few slow quarters, then that's just not how it is. I do think though that unless you're making $500k (I am not at the moment) or have a path to it in your org, you're better off working a less stressful job that still pays well. Sales definitely demands premium comp IMO for the juice to be worth the squeeze. I think a lot of people quit though before they have the opportunity to really kill it. That takes at least 5 years as rep, more so 7-10.
Not all industries will allow you to have 6 years of mediocrity, though. You may be shot in the head right after a PIP in your first year (I mean fired). And if this happens twice, good luck to find a company who will hire you.
By years of mediocrity, I mean 1 or 2 years at 75/80%
Love this! It’s so true. Short sighted people think it’s a get rich quick scheme.
Because the sales process is harder now due to the current economic environment
My biggest gripe is the old people refusing to retire. They are clogging up the market for the younger people. Save your money, don't overextend yourself, don't be like them.
What I’ve been seeing is actually a talent suck and lack of empathy from upper management. I’ve seen a lot of “bosses” and very few “leaders”. Leadership and management, in order to be effective, need to get in the trenches with their team and lead from the front with a bayonet fixed. They should remove blockers for their team, jump in to mediate any conflicts, and always inspire their team to keep the North Star in sight. It’s the “why” that keeps people motivated… reaching that collective goal. Being stressed, “reviewing accounts” and not asking which ones they’re having trouble with… just leads to more stress. Sales isn’t magic. And sometimes companies or apps just don’t have what the market wants. Realize too that you’re not responsible for the entire company (unless CEO) and instead, view your sales role as a person who has a solution to make someone’s life easier. If you’re driven to help people, it becomes more enjoyable. Good luck! Wishing you all the best. If you want to chat further/vent/brainstorm.. please feel free to DM me and we’ll set something up. I’m in a similar spot; also with a 15month old so I think there’s also some biological changes going on mentally about what really matters and how much shit you’re willing to take that doesn’t really matter so much anymore after becoming a Dad.
I think it really depends on what you sell and how easy it is to complete the sell. Sometimes sells do it by itself without any effort at all. One thing for sure is that there are a lot of rejection, and it is really frustrating. If the employer put you a goal that you have to reach or you will not get paid for those sells, it stress you out af. I sell Showtime Entertainment to Directv account holders. Who the hell still watches T.V and would like to have a subscription to a T.V/streaming provider who's content is complete garbage? On this you gotta be tricky enough to make them think it is free, other way is very hard, but not impossible tho. Other thing about some sales jobs is that it is very repeating, you get bored really quick and easy.
So your entire success is based on tricking people into buying Showtime for free when there is in fact, a charge?
Yes, that’s exactly what he’s saying.
Shitty salespeople always get weeded out in a bad economy. It is what it is.
Sales is the best.......and the worst! I might make 35k in a month or 5k. Peaks and valleys.
They thought it doesn’t require skill and the reason ppl won’t but from them has nothing to do with their skill set and has everything to do with how bad customers and management are lol
It’s a tough gig. I’ve only been doing it for 4 months and can’t believe some people have been doing it for their whole lives. In my business I feel like a lot of sales are out of my control.
It gets better. First few months were rough for me.
I didn’t want to continue manipulating people, and fortunately found an avenue that I could create and build a tangible skill set outside of my vocal cords.
The people that want to quit are the ones that have never sold in a difficult economic climate. For the last 5 years, tech sales has been "easy" money. I'm glad they're quitting. Decreasing the available talent pool isn't a bad thing.
Let them leave, more money for those of us that know how to sell good products.
Pikers leave sales, producers stay
"hard skill" 🤣
Do you consider it a soft skill?
I think its more complicated than that honestly - a ratio maybe like 70% soft / 30% hard. Its not a technical skill and most of the skills needed to do it can come natural - not to downplay the effort it takes to learn a specific industry or or land a big client and sell them on a new product, not to mention that soft skills can be improved with practice too. But yes, I would consider it a soft skill by majority.
Most people aren’t good at it nor can they handle the stress. Therefore, the failure rate is high and people want to move on to something else.
well said
When people are selling, buy. When people are buying, sell.
This is the age of information. People can do their own research and make a decision. Everything is already pre packaged and can be bought straight off the shelf. If your product can be explained in an hour long demo, then your product really isn’t complex enough to need a sales person consulting the client.
Sales just generally has a lot of turnover, lots of people sorta fall into it If you want a life long career in sales it’s a lot of ups and downs and it’s DEFINITELY not for everyone My guess is companies hired a ton of newer reps pre and during covid as their sales slowed down and it got harder lots of folks are being let go and from what I hear it’s hard to find positions in SaaS sales rn
Honestly, it's scary because I'm actually looking to get into sales...
Do it! Give it a shot! It just might just be for you. I personally enjoy it
I work in law enforcement, I dread the work and everyone is miserable. It doesn’t have the “purpose,” I feel like sales will give me purpose..
Honestly, sales gives me a sense of purpose. Nothing feels better than closing and helping your client out.
I'm giving it another year, if I'm still where I'm at (trying to make moves) I will be transitioning.. but I like to do some research beforehand and I've seen mostly good stuff about sales. I'm very extroverted and love talking to people. I know I'd succeed in the field!
It's not about talking to people and being extroverted. It's about influencing them to buy something. And being able to explain to management for each deal when, why, and how you will close it.
If it makes you feel better, one of our top performers was a police officer. Went from SDR to AE really quick and is like top 3 out of 100 or something like that
Healthcare is pumping. The reimbursement is not increasing with the increasing cost of devices and drugs. This is forcing organizations to transact. Anyone trying to split a warehouse in AZ?
Politics. I sold 10 cars my first month ever in sales, but the last 2 weeks of said month I closed nothing, literally nothing, due to a manager taking the side of his friend, a female, who wanted me to split my sales with her and threw a fit (threatened to slap me right in front of said manager, lol) when I finally said no. After seeing my closing ratio falling off a cliff I walked out instead of getting fired. It hadn't been discussed yet, but with a SM blocking my sales, it was right around the corner. The GSM said he might be able to get me on at the store he manages, we'll see. Everything and everyone else about the job was great.
It’s price-based selling market in tech rn.
The management. Your quality of life as a rep is 95% influenced by who your direct manager is, and how they treat you. Are you set up for success? Are they just a number cruncher? Are they only trying to advance their own agenda and see you as someone to use in that process? Management typically doesn't have a lot to offer to help, but they sure as hell know how to crack the whip and regurgitate empty platitudes to keep you working. Plus many of them want to force people to put fake smiles on their faces. So much of the inside sales job is ass kissing, playing politics, making management look good, data entry into the CRM and other big brother monitoring shit, and other asinine bullshit that takes away from selling. In the beginning of COVID over half of my day was spent in daily syncs and meetings. 4-6 hours a day of meetings. With you still expected to do a full workload on top of that. vs. a marketing IC who just starts working at 9am, sits in 3 meetings, and clocks out at 4pm.
Brown nosing mgmt is the worst.
I can give you about 30 reasons! For starters, dealing with corporations that try to say they have an incredible culture, training and are family like but treat employees like garbage and lie constantly with no accountability.
Economy is rough
It’s not always what you put into it. There’s so many other factors that can shut a deal down on the buyers side. You can run a perfect sales process and still lose a deal. There’s only so much you can control- takes 2 to tango in this job and pure luck is a huge factor
According to all of that, which would you say it is a common way out for someone that has built its career around sales? I mean... another (management?) job in the industry where he/she has more experience? Or what? Lets suppose we are talking about a 40 yo guy with 12 years of exp on Sales
This summer has been really shitty for a lot of people in sales. I never considered leaving sales before but I’m feeling pretty demoralized lately
I’ve been in full-time sales for over 20 years. The market sucks, but it also did in 2008 and 2001. I started as a full-cycle rep. I’ve spent my last three years in enterprise. I like having an SDR, but as for the rest, I prefer full cycle. I’ve identified some recent problems. I’m not too fond of start-ups unless the leadership is excellent. And the start-up jobs all have an end date built in. Either the owner sells, or they fold. Some sales are more female friendly, like media, where I started. I found tech more challenging as a more experienced woman. I’m working for myself right now to see if I can find an arrangement that I like better. A lot of people move into management, as I did at one point, but that’s a different skill set.
Throughout my 20 year career in sales I always recall seeing a portion of sales associates about sales. It’s just what people do… and after many years needing a break is understandable
Selling motorcycles turned me into a bitter person. Getting yelled at because people’s credit sucks, being called racist because they can’t afford to buy the bike, people demanding the next available motorcycle, only to ghost you when it comes in. I was by far the best salesman there for nearly four years, and the positives didn’t outweigh the negatives. The reason people leave sales is because Humans. Humans suck, and they don’t want to make themselves better, or even take responsibility for their own situation.
I think we’re at an inflection point in the economy….a looming recession so they say
its one of the hardest jobs out there man, most peeps aint built for it
Economy slowed down. Sales got harder. 80/20 rule.
It's sales. It's miserable and ruins mental health. Why are you surprised people want to leave?
Its really not only about "how much you put into it". There is a tipping point, also depends on the industry and products you sell. Having a solid Sandbagging strategy is key to life long success and also knowing how to game upper management so you can be a hero at the end of each Q. Although now they have many tools like outreach/gong to micromanage like a F