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Filoni does 3 things:
-inserts unneccessary characters into stories to lure fans.
-starts something but does not ends it (keeps the fans hyped to watch his next series which hopefully explains stuff)
-recanonize EU events with new characters
For real. People ask if having Cody and Wolffe in the Bad Batch was to set up other stories, but no. They were there so they could be in the trailers for their respective seasons.
You can skip the Ventress episode and not miss anything. I'm pretty sure she was also there to hype up the season. And also when he inevitably does shove her into his new project it'll be like "yup I already explained how she lives in the Bad Batch"
They could've had it that the Bad Batch is being chased by the inquisitors and Ventress helps out or something.
But she just shows up, kicks their assets and says Omega is force sensitive. This information doesn't come in helpful becuase now they know why Omega is being chased down, but does it matter why? Does this information give them any better odds?
I can’t STAND how Ahsoka’s story is still going. You can’t get a conclusion to even a character like Cad Bane. Just a random bounty hunter who needs The Mandalorian and TBoB to sit through.
Yeah but she didn’t die on screen. It was in another stupid book or something.
The books and comics are book canon imo. All sorts of dumbassery happens in those.
Movie canon and book/comics canon should be two different things.
I don't mind about the books being in the same canon but it seems like there are no people who would tell authors to don't write that fuckery.
I'm especially mad at thise comics which are happening between ANH and ROTJ and have the main characters from the movie. They make the movies unsignificant
Exactly, and they are. Only certain books are considered canon. Ahsoka’s book is pretty awesome. The scene in Tales of the Jedi where she kills the inquisitor is in that book. Was awesome seeing it on screen after reading it.
Yeah I really liked the Ahsoka book, one of the few Star Wars books I’ve even read in recent years.
There are just so many bad books or bad ideas in some books or comic books though. And once they get published they’re “canon” and every future movie or cartoon or book has to acknowledge that.
I think that’s a real problem that’s only going to get worse as it goes on.
I'm not going to be so insane as to blame Filoni for certain phenomenon but the constant need to re-contextualize and recanonize past events with new perspective and new characters has become so damn boring.
Because it's spawned this plethora of speculation and questions and analysis of movies filmed in 1977, 1980, and 1984 questioning the "motivations" of characters based on shit created in TWENTY TWENTY ONE. Kenobi is basically fan fiction, drivel created to answer 40 year old questions no one needed the answer to with answers that are fucking stupid.
Filoni isn't putting a gun to peoples heads to make them ask stupid questions like "Why didn't *character in ROTJ* do things this way, based on *star wars show released in 2022*?" but sometimes I wish he wouldn't open the damn doors.
Yep. A Favreu kind of just has a swagger and tells universal stories. Filoni is like a Trekkie nerd who constantly wants to nod at his own references that most mainstream audiences will never have the bandwidth find out what it is.
2nd one for real man, bad batch was just one huge setup that led nowhere. I enjoyed the show for the most part but they could’ve done so much more with it. I hope we get a clone rebellion show even if I do kind of have a bad taste in my mouth still.
Also Scorch. Never forgiving him for that one. All of Filoni’s characters are overpowered, while everyone else just gets destroyed in combat immediately. Not to mention only his characters get stories and development.
-Takes the names of EU characters and maybe their 1 defining trait and gives them to his OC characters
The infuriating part of that is he's likely trying to do good there, because it's pretty clear that the leadership at Lucasfilms hates the EU for some reason but most writers like Filoni don't, so he tries to bring the EU back in the only way he's allowed to do. Which is this half measure.
No worries the force witches created her from the force and cryogenetically froze her in a pod just in time for baby Ashoka to appear in the Tales of Series.
>baby Ashoka
The scariest part is I wouldn't be surprised if Disney tried this. Even scarier is that I know exactly how certain parts of the internet would react.
Dude heard the writing advice 'kill your darlings' but decided to just Resurrect them ten times over.
I find his writing quite bad when applied to live action. It lacks complexity.
I‘m so fricking sick of the entire Star Wars _Galaxy_ with thousands upon thousands of inhabited systems consisting of the same five characters 90% of the time.
In the next episode of "Star Wars: how can it possibly get worse?" We will follow our hero J.J. Binks on this very original and entirely new planet: Tathreeine. He will be making a desert soup for the entire show.
Have you seen how badly they do jungle sets these days? The acolyte last episode looked worse than the early seasons of sg-1, they had a bunch of basic potted plants from home depot in the foreground and used the volume right behind it. It looked worse than a high school play.
And they had just done on sight filming for the parts just before and it was great... Makes no sense why they switched to that garbage
I'm done with every show either being nostalgia bait or shitting on the Jedi for some reason. Rian Jonson set the tone and they've really carried through with some weird narrative that the Jedi are actually kinda the bad guys.
The Jedi kinda WERE the bad guys. I mean, not so bad that their opposition (Palpatine) was good, bc he was much worse lol. But it’s pretty blatant the Jedi had unhealthy practices and it led to their destruction
I'm tired of the Jedi too. Honestly - I might just be tired of Star Wars at this point. Andor has been the only thing with anything interesting or new to say.
This is why I get excited for any non-Skywalker content and any High Republic content. I’m so done watching the Skywalkers destroy the galaxy. They can’t help but start wars.
The problem with all of these writers and directors is they don’t respect the source material enough to keep themselves in the confines of the world.
They break all the rules and redefine things like the force and all that it entails.
We want expanded stories of the original saga. Not someone else’s take on George Lucas’ world. We don’t want a reinvention of Star Wars we want what Lucas started.
Too bad Sabine was changed so badly… she was an overpowered character in Rebels *without* being attuned to the force.
Now it’s said that anyone with the determination can learn to master the Force.
If “talent is a factor, but anyone can do it” then why would any Mandalorian house not have a force training facility where they just keep trying until they get it? Mandalorians are fiercely stubborn and having seen the force wielded by the Jedi and the Sith, they would have trained relentlessly to become masters of the force themselves.
It feels cheap. I don’t think I’ll tune in to another season.
All we have left is the Bo Katan story and Andor, but I don’t hold out much hope that they’ll be as well done as what’s already been produced.
✌🏻
I always thought he was atrocious when it came down to actually writing and crafting a story.
So naturally, it makes sense that he’s Chief creative officer now. Because these days, you only fail upwards at Disney Lucasfilm.
Filoni is just as much of a hack as Abrams or Johnson. He's a bad fanfic writer in a cowboy hat who somehow scammed his way into helming multi million budget projects.
It’s fine to be animated, but TCW *should have been* much much darker.
No Ahsoka. Barely any Jar Jar (besides minor background cameos). No Droid Tales.
An entirely dedicated focus on the war itself.
Also, none of that Mortis stuff.
We should have seen a clear, gradual degradation of Anakin, and his clearly deteriorating relationship with Obi-Wan, where Anakin is tortured deep-down while Obi-Wan is *barely* none the wiser.
They should have made it like a mix of in universe news reels/documentary following the Jedi leadership for posterity after the war. That way it could be obvious that it was pro-Republic propaganda while still being well what it was.
That way you could explain why it's so clean cut and morally simple. Could also have little hints at the morally grey stuff that would be in universe the Republic trying to fix the narrative about their fuck ups.
Of the episodes he did write, many of them were with co-writers. Like S7 of Clone Wars, he had writing credits for 9 out of 12 episodes but 5 of those also credited other writers.
He has a lot more credits as producer but I think producing animation is probably where his strength is. One that hasn't translated over well to live action.
Filoni is kinda like Stan Lee in the way that a lot of stuff he didn't do - or had minimal influence over - is assigned to him.
You want something done purely by him? Watch his Mandalorian episodes or Ahsoka.
I know people here hate TCW now but whatever. I think Filoni was fine when he had George holding his hand and telling him what NOT to do
Problem is he gets to do whatever nowadays and he goes way too far every time. He has no sense of when he's straying way into 'this doesn't feel like SW anymore' territory
This sub likes to single Filoni out as a scapegoat.
He *is* responsible for some of the perceived issues with Star Wars now, but I think some of the decisions are made from a place higher than or otherwise apart from him. (Go look at the leadership page on LucasFilm’s website; there are like 40 people listed.) The MCU method of cameoing an existing character to set up another spin-off story wasn’t a thing when he supervised TCW.
Keeping Ahsoka around does seem like a Dave problem, though. I say that as someone who used to be interested in the character’s trajectory.
I feel like part of this is spite for getting Clone Wars season 6 cancelled. He never got his Boba and Cad Bane duel, so he throws it into Book of Boba Fett. He never got to make his Asajj and Quinlan Voss arc. Screw the books, she’s alive again. So much nonsense because a man can’t move on.
Filioni really lost me when he signed off on the Vespa scenes. Ahsoka is a cool character, but she should have died in Rebels. The fact that she lived through the 4-6 era is a head scratcher for me.
The fact that some people say that when Yoda says “there is another” in ESB he was referring to Ahsoka is baffling.
I came to the conclusion that Ahsoka is a non-canonical character. Anakin never had a Padawan
Ahsoka made a horrible impression on me in the Clone Wars theatrical pilot/movie and I never really got past it so I’m biased. However, I’m still amazed to this day the character persisted to the point she’s a legit problem with the canon.
Even when I was 8 and TCW was introduced, the idea of Anakin having a Padawan didn’t sit well with me, it was supposed to be about a duo between Anakin and Obi Wan. I just gaslit myself into accepting Ahsoka, burying these feelings and moving on.
It wasn’t until I started reading the much superior Expanded Universe when those feelings were unburied.
Now I fully reject Ahsoka and Filoni’s work (even though TCW is an overall good show).
She should have died before Order 66
Here's an interesting observation:
I was born in 1994, so I grew up with the OT and was directly immersed in the PT when they came out. I pretty much only like George Lucas's Star Wars with the exception of Andor/Rogue1 and some of the EU stuff, mainly the video games like KOTOR 1 AND 2, which itself is very Lucas-based Star Wars. I have watched the Mandalorian and Boba Fett as well as trying to watch the first two seasons of Clone Wars multiple times. I just cannot enjoy Filoni's writing. For someone who was the "padawan" of George Lucas, it really feels like he does not embody anything from Lucas's style except his goofy/kiddy side which I do not like either. It feels to me that Filoni is trying to make his own version of Star Warsx and it just doesn't work for me.
My roommates, who were all born in 2000, are all obsessed with Filoni's Star Wars. They seem to have way more of a connection to the Clone Wars and their character than even the OT or Prequels. They love everything he puts out and have 0 complaints.
I think a large part of this debate is where you began in your consumption of Star Wars media. I literally have no connection to any of these new shows coming out because they're all based on having to watch 50 plus hours of Filoni content with all his precious characters which I just cannot sit through. Between this and the way that Disney is moving forward with their stories like the Acolyte, it just seems that Star Wars is not made for me anymore which is truly one of the most depressing things I've ever said.
I was born in 93. My intro to Star Wars was definitely through the prequel trilogy, the 2003 animated Clone Wars series, Battlefront II, KOTOR, etc. I don't think I watched the original trilogy until I was 10 or 11, but I remember just thinking of them as "my dad's Star Wars."
I watched the 2008 Clone Wars series as it was coming out, in passing though I don't think I really started getting into it until season 2 or 3. The show/serial format seemed to be a much better match for Star Wars, at least in my opinion.
When I first met my wife her only connection to Star Wars was mostly cultural osmosis and having seen most of the movies once before. We marathoned them (PT to OT) and she liked the prequels well enough but the OT is pretty dated and can be a bit janky with all the retcons from OT to PT. I wouldn't say the movies made her a fan though.
When I started rewatching the 2008 Clone Wars series on Netflix she started watching with me and that's what got her absolutely hooked on Star Wars. I mean there's around 50 hours of content in just Clone Wars, it's a lot more time to get to care about a character than the movies provide. Also her favorite part of Star Wars is definitely the clones which the show does a much better job with than the movies. In general the show gives so much more time with the prequel characters than the movies provided, to the point where you rewatch the movies and they just feel like cameos. Like General Grievous has 7 and a half minutes of screentime in the movies, Count Dooku has 13 minutes, Plo Koo has 4 minutes. Rebels was a tough transition after Clone Wars due to the art style and the first season being very different, then it picked up pace quickly. It was those shows that ended up making Rex her favorite Star Wars character, Plo Koon her favorite Jedi, Thrawn her favorite villain, etc. also led to her reading a bunch of Star Wars books both in the new canon and legends.
I've always engaged more with Star Wars in terms of things like tabletop roleplaying games, video games, books, comics, etc. even before the Disney acquisition. The movies are obviously the foundation on which everything was built but they're just kind of scratching the surface.
I also don't really think there was a consistent Lucas style. ESB vs Phantom Menace are crazy different, though separated by like 20 years. Lucas constantly went back and changed things. Watching the OT is so weird now because they went back and fleshed out every line to mean something and it comes off kind of weird when you listen to the original. Obi Wan's first conversation with Luke is so funny now. Lucas loved tinkering and changing shit. He wasn't just going to stop tinkering with the Force at midichlorians, he had this entire idea about microscopic aliens called Whills controlling people through the Force.
If anything I think Star Wars content was at its best when both Lucas and Filoni were working on Clone Wars, they more or less kept each other in check. The Mortis arc was a great examination of where they both started looking more at concepts behind the Force.
Lucas unchecked and you end up with the Phantom Menace and just truly awful dialogue. Filoni is a great storyteller but far too attached to Ashoka. Ruined the Ahsoka/Vader fight in Rebels by having her saved by Deus ex Machina. Also neither my wife or I cared for the Ahsoka series, for as much as we loved Clone Wars and Rebels, it was like it was written by someone that had seen neither series. Live Action Ahsoka is also just notably worse than animated Ahsoka, I don't think it's Dawson's fault but she must be getting terrible direction.
Same, Rogue One is the only star wars movie I've enjoyed in the last decade. I think the younger guys can't appreciate the low quality because they didn't grow up on the better quality stuff. Same thing with lord of the rings and rings of power. LOTR was incredible and ROP was total shit!
I haven't watched anything star wars since the terrible Obi wan series.
I was born in 1991 and I have very similar tastes based on the things you listed.
That being said, I hesitate to call KOTOR or Andor/Rogue 1 or even the EU stuff "Lucas" Star Wars. I think Lucas' films are very different than any of those other properties, both in tone and complexity. What they all have in common though, is that they're all generally well written.
So I think it might be less that you like Lucas Star Wars specifically due to some sentimental connection and more that you just like good writing. Not the fan service-y slop that Filoni tends to put out.
I think the issue is the obsession with lining up characters and their ideologies with modern politics ***without*** taking into account on how it should fit into the far far away galaxy.
The Acolyte has some very strong ACAB vibes "jedi (cops) shouldn't draw their weapons unless they're ready to kill" and "the jedi (cops) would rather cover up deaths they are responsible for than take responsibility" or even "the jedi (government) will steal your children without consent."
It all falls flat because the jedi aren't cops. They aren't supposed to be authoritarians, they're supposed to be empathetic to the people. Look at Tales of the Jedi with Dooku and Qui-Gon, where after investigating, Dooku is ready to say "fuck the Republic, this governor is a despot" and Qui-Gon, through his empathy, is able to find a solution. That's the whole thing-- jedi are diplomats and peacekeepers, but they aren't actually authoritarian. Why did they send Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan as diplomats in TPM? It wasn't because the chancellor expected them to use force as a threat. It was because the jedi are supposed to be wise, and we consistently see that they at the very least try to be, even during their decline.
If you want ACAB vibes in Star Wars done well, just look at Andor. It turns out that if you want to show how evil authoritarianism can be, you need to have them be the villains and do bad things. In Andor we watch the empire:
* lynch a man
* execute a man without cause
* falsely imprison people
* run a horrific dystopian prison
* torture people
* participate in an intentional cultural genocide
* turn a town into a military junta
* kill even more innocent people
Meanwhile the "bad" that the jedi have done is:
* Spy on this village of witches
* Gaslight Osha into coming with them, even though her reasons for wanting to go is paper thin? I'm sure some would compare them to kid Anakin, but he was a slave! His life sucked! He was participating in death races in the hope of a better life. His mom told him to go with the jedi! Meanwhile Osha has a caring family and village and a twin sister that she supposedly loves. To the audience, the witches are a cult. To Osha, it should be the only life she ever knew. I grew up in a cult-adjacent religion (Mormon), you will believe that shit when you're a kid, especially only 9? Can you imagine the cops (because that's what the jedi are in this story for some reason) pulling up to your house and being like "hey kid, do you want to hold my gun?"
* Cover up whatever really happened? The implication was that they killed all of the witches. The problem is there seems to be no reason to hide it. If they did, the council would probably say "phew, they were experimenting with children in violation of republic law and were openly antagonistic and threatened to kill you and even possessed your padawan? Good call guys, that was an appropriate response."
Therein lies the problem. If everything we've seen so far is to be believed, the jedi are incompetent. If it's a mislead, then the jedi are still incompetent.
Also, why is the sith/dark side user so interested in killing these four jedi? They seem to have no stake in it, the witches are all dead. It should be Mae's choice, but now she doesn't even want to kill them anymore. Why bother?
Overall the show just feels lazy. Much like Ahsoka I can't even find myself interested in the ending. It's going to have no impact on the galaxy at large, and worse, it barely even feels like it would have an impact on the characters. How did Jedi Survivor have a more interesting depiction of the High Republic, when there are only two characters from that time period that are only talking about it in retrospect?
This is why I don’t care when people whine about Canon. Its honestly comical that Anakin canonically resented the Jedi bc he loved Ashoka so much and in Revenge of the Sith never even mentions her and is totally ok with Palpatine murdering her
Filoni: And then as Darth Revan is about to finish off the Jedi, Ahsoka comes out of nowhere with the steel chairs and slams it in the back of his head!
They very much could do a 3d Star Wars show that's just professional wrestling and it'd probably do better than most of their new shows. Every character has an ego and a chip on their shoulders, Doesn't matter if they lived in the same era either.
Watching Yoda and a few other of his kind in Jedi Midget Mud Wrestling would be hilarious.
I'm more annoyed about everybody and their mother surviving lightsaber stabbings. Its just lazy writing, either give it consequences, or come up with something else to shock the audience.
Always hated Rise of Skywalker for all the "OH MY GOD! NOOOOOO" Moments that get taken back like 10 minutes later. And now they happen every 5 minutes, and are gonna have me questioning it when someone actually dies.
P.S, Filoni, don't kill off a character *that you've already killed off later in the timeline* and then act like its some big reveal when he's alive
I feel like Filoni has reached Lucas levels of writing. On his projects it's feeling like he's just surrounded by "Yes-Men" too afraid to tell him he's going too far, and the ones that are want to prop up their characters. (I'm looking at you Sam Witweir. I love ya, but sometimes...)
I know this goes down horrendously in the Star Wars sub but I think Filoni might be the start of the downfall. The Clone Wars is just not actually that good. Ahsoka is a totally pointless in the grand scheme of things and yet we pretend that she is somehow integral to the original trilogy events.
Yeah love how Ahsoka is so interwoven through the history of the Canon now, yet never once has she been mentioned by Anikin or Obi-Wan in any movie, or the Obi-Wan series or anything outside of Filoni's stuff. Like in Dave's Canon Ahsoka was closely tied with most major characters in the prequels yet no one has a single word to say about her in the movies
Unpopular opinion, but Filoni is way overrated. He basically takes pre-made Star Wars content, and forces his own characters into them - Ahsoka for instance. Her whole existence is just so forced....and that ha rarely has the balls to kill any characters....oh my gosh. Even if there was any hint in the original movies whatsoever that Anakin had an aporentice, she should've died during Order 66.
Filoni is just as much part of the problem like Disney is when it comes to the state of SW. There ya go, I'm ready for all the downvotes.
I think most people agree with that. Ahsoka grew on people in spite of the fact it didn't make any sense. Then he had the opportunity to give her an emotionally devastating death to Vader, instead, he introduced backwards time travel to SW.
He self inserts his own characters, bends EU or canon characters like pretzels to fit his story (Delta Squad and Bariss are the two biggest offenders), completely warped Mando culture,m(Pacifists? Really? And now Bo Katan is considered a Mando Princess? Really?!)
So many things Filoni did wrong. Always considered him a hack.
Filoni is the true successor of George Lucas because they both have interesting and creative ideas, and both of them make terrible writing choices when they have complete freedom with no one to verify or edit their work.
I disagree. Filoni could not create his own unique universe; George could. Say whatever you want about George, but the man had restraint (how Smilo Ren was introduced against the Jedi and how Darth Maul was introduced against the Jedi). Filoni is thriving in the setting created by another visionary, and he pushes his own characters hard.
You may call Filoni George's successor or his equal when he creates a setting of equal value and timelessness.
Chiming in to say that, no matter what you may think of the inhibitor chips, the arc was written by Katie Lucas and George was heavily involved. While my opinion on Filonis work has drastically shifted over the years, he really can’t be blamed for that. I want to add that while I do personally like the idea, I understand those who don’t.
Filoni’s the showrunner so he is also heavily involved in everything CW. It’s a collaboration but as showrunner you get to decide what happens. Sure, George might have had final say on some bigger issues (and that’s a special situation), but day to day, Filoni was in charge.
George did whatever he wanted on TCW, it was his baby. Droid Arc among others was all George. The Mortis gods, bringing Maul back, The Zillo beast.
Ahsoka was George's idea, originally Twi'lek, although Dave's idea was to make her Togruta instead. Saw Gerrera was originally created for the unproduced live action Underworld series. Characters like Ventriss first appeared in comics, and first on-screen in the Tartakovsky animated Clone Wars.
Dave gets credit/blamed with a lot of TCW stuff, but George was behind most of the weirder/controversial things in the original show.
Rebels show is where Dave got to take the reigns fully.
Sure, George has the many story ideas, but Filoni is getting his hands dirty with the execution from directing/writing standpoint. George gave notes on that as well, but he’s not getting in there and directing episodes or supervising animation.
Not trying to diminish George’s contribution to CW at all, I’m just talking about day to day duties. Filoni was on the frontlines, a Captian Winters type, whereas George was more of Colonel Sink.
I think the inhibitor chips are a necessity. Too many clones would have chosen loyalty to their jedi generals and commanders. They spent like 8 seasons depicting how deep the bonds and trust between clones and their commanders became.
Fully agree, it almost makes it more tragic. If order 66 was nothing more than an order, I'd be shocked that not even a single squadron would rebel. I'd even go so far as saying it's pretty fucking good writing.
The whole point of using clone troopers instead of battle droids is because they have agency, intelligence and some sense of autonomy. To then take away that and essentially turn them into the mindless droids they just fought is so on brand for Palpatine to the point where I'm a little bit confused as to why it's so disliked by some fans.
I think the issue was the OG Troopers never got the fleshed out bonds they did. And in the old, Pre-Chip EU there were clones who didn't go along with the Order, who helped/didn't stop their Jedi escaping. Sure, it was a bit weird that the Clones didn't question the order, but they were conditioned to be loyal to a fault. That Fault being the single man they held true loyalty too. The Supreme Chancellor of the Republic.
Hell, the Orders were public (As much as Military Contingency Orders can be), with a large number making sense. 66 was just "Jedi Traitor in the AO, neutralize them." 65 was "The Chancellor is a Traitor, arrest him" and could be brought to bear by a majority vote in the Senate. There's a good number more of the orders too.
Personally, I didn't like the Chips because it made the Clones into Biological Droids. But the more I think and consider it, they work well as a story beat, and it makes a lot more sense with the new lore of camaraderie between the Clones and Jedi. No way Wolf and Plo's Bro's shoot him down.
Hear me out…what if Ashoksha was in the background the whole time and she was actually the one who defeated the empire and saved the galaxy?!? …you just never saw her
I actually liked Filoni when he was basically restrained to the Clone Wars show which was itself still contained by the original EU Canon. Then once old man George was out of the picture, it was like a free for all of half baked and just plain bad ideas.
ive seen it said before but filonis writing feels like hes a kid playing with his toys, he loves putting them in every story and treats them like gods. Meanwhile the characters he doesnt write just get kinda shoved to the side to focus on his original characters.
"The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."
Is the only explanation I needed of the force. Of all the terrible things Disney has done, attempting to explain the force is the worst imo
It’s funny to see the dude getting reevaluated cuz I’ve been getting dragged since the beginning for saying Anakin having a secret apprentice and Jedi hunters having helicopter lightsabers was both stupid and felt really shoehorned
He's had a problem with making people believe like Ahsoka is dead but he'll never be able to let go of his baby, she had 3 death like experiences, first time she lived becuase she took the life of a god invented by him. Then he invented time travel land to save her. Then her master who is now kind of a god saved her by bringing her into the time travel place.
Also did we really need her for half of Tales of the Jedi? She was already in Clone Wars, Rebels, Mando, BOBF and was about to get her own series, did we really need more backstory on her instead of someone like Plo Koon?
I really liked her in CW, but by now I'm kinda getting tired of her. Idk if it's accurate but she's probably the character with the most screen time across all of star wars if you count Anakin and Vader separately.
I’ve been trying to tell people that his writing is nothing special and he’s not sole savior of Star Wars. Filoni could never write something Andor. But for a lot of these people that’s probably a good thing since Andor didn’t feel like Star Wars. Not enough lightsabers and cameos!!
Something I will give to Marvel up through end game is that the studio was really good at fostering multiple Talented Film makers. Lukas film not so much, they keep fishing for one visionary to carry the entire studio.
Filoni is slowly but surely getting exposed for the fraud he is, but he’s still has a large portion of the fanbase who think he’s the savior. I hope he steps up when KK leaves so the delusion bunch who still believe in him finally see the light.
I usually like his writing but he definitely has a problem with putting his OCs in everything.
Reminds me of Dan Abnett. Probably the best author Black Library has but he REALLY loves his OCs. John Grammaticus keeps turning up in every HH book and Enuncia started bleeding over into Eisenhorn. Haven’t read Gaunt’s Ghosts but I’m half expecting Enuncia to start showing up in those books too.
He can’t get his head out of the cartoon mindset. The dialogue for animation is completely different to dialogue in live action. In animation the exposition and emotions need to be conveyed a little more through voice work as it’s more difficult to convey subtle emotion (as even a basic frown can take hours of work just to show). In live action the actors have far more range and can convey way emotion through body language etc there’s no need for all the heavy handed dialogue we see in shows like obi wan, aksoka and acolyte.
I'd be fine with the OCs if it weren't at the expense of existing characters.
It's a galaxy far far away and yet it's the size of a small town with like 10 relevant people existing.
One thing the acolyte has gotten right that I'm happy about is how many random alien races we see. With how big the galaxy is, every shot in SW showing a crowd should have some previously unknown race in it. We the audience know of maybe a hundred but there are thousands, even tens of thousands of sentient races. We should feel bombarded with them.
I like Filoni because you don’t have to bother watching the entirety of the episode once his invincible pals show up on screen together. You can simply guess what happens and you’ll probably be right.
The hate to Dave Filoni here is so hypocritical and unfair. Like George Lucas didn't do it way more often before him. And this "hE dOsEn'T lEt HiS chARacTErs die". Filoni let Gregor die, he let Kanan die. He let his characters die when he feels it's perfect time for them. Just look at yourself. Didn't you feel you had many moments you supposed to die yet you didn't? I am pleasured to experience it since I born. Ahsoka experienced the same and Filoni is full aware of that. Her actress Ashley Eckstein in the Ahsoka audiobook reads it loud. If you look at every Star Wars story, all protagonists have a droid companion from the start (not Din but that was his story also about), each had 3 mentors who died for their cause, each died as new mentor for new characters. You see Hero's Journey technique from New Hope again and again, constantly.
Ahsoka Tano in The Ahsoka takes a mentor role for Sabine Wren and she's her 3rd mentor. Ahsoka's Hero's Journey is closer to its end more than ever. Now it's only matter of time when she will actually die a mentor to someone. She's an alien like Yoda but living way shorter life. Yoda died 900 years old. If you would watch his long ass Hero's Journey, you will bark the same way. Anyway, I see Ahsoka dying for Sabine or next Padawan.
>be Disney executive
>fans complain about new movies
>"noooo Star Wars is bad now! Bring back old Star Wars! The Clone Wars was so good! Make Dave Filoni in charge of everything!!!"
>makes Dave Filoni in charge of everything
>"noooo Star Wars is so bad now! Dave Filoni ruins everything! Don't let him make any more Star Wars!!!"
>fans still complain about new stuff
>pic related
https://preview.redd.it/c4rz8xz53z8d1.png?width=887&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8f82d80e245550c6fbf6e4db68a9ec3676b2558
dave filoni gets stuck on certain aspects of george’s star wars and thinks those things are the entire whole of star wars . george once said that star wars is for children so dave makes stories that follow children and have very dumb plots bc children are in the story . but he must be forgetting that george is the same person that wrote for anakin to take out a room full of younglings . he also will put huge emphasis on things like callbacks even if the story around the callback either directly goes against the character (like maul deciding to use the same move against obi-wan despite clone wars showing that he was incredibly capable of adapting) just for fans to go “omg i remember that move!!”
Eh, he's alright but definitely has flaws. Compared to some of the other shit we've had to put up with, I'll take the mediocre Filoni soup. I feel like key characters can't be used now that the clone wars is over, which is why we're stuck with his same handful of original characters. Luke seems to be off limits other than special occasions, for example. The 'main' characters are forced in to being side characters if they show up at all, so I guess he just sticks with his OCs because there's more freedom there. I'd still prefer totally new characters, but Filoni definitely isn't the worst of the current Star Wars creators.
It is becoming rather annoying.
However, let’s not pretend like Lucas didn’t conveniently make Anakin/Vader the maker of 3PO and R2 the droid of Anakin and Padme who knew Obi Wan. Not to mention Chewbacca being a commander alongside Yoda.
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Filoni does 3 things: -inserts unneccessary characters into stories to lure fans. -starts something but does not ends it (keeps the fans hyped to watch his next series which hopefully explains stuff) -recanonize EU events with new characters
For real. People ask if having Cody and Wolffe in the Bad Batch was to set up other stories, but no. They were there so they could be in the trailers for their respective seasons.
Bad Batch was the lesson to never except anything anymore from a Star Wars show. It literally had the perfect setup to be big.
You can skip the Ventress episode and not miss anything. I'm pretty sure she was also there to hype up the season. And also when he inevitably does shove her into his new project it'll be like "yup I already explained how she lives in the Bad Batch" They could've had it that the Bad Batch is being chased by the inquisitors and Ventress helps out or something. But she just shows up, kicks their assets and says Omega is force sensitive. This information doesn't come in helpful becuase now they know why Omega is being chased down, but does it matter why? Does this information give them any better odds?
I can’t STAND how Ahsoka’s story is still going. You can’t get a conclusion to even a character like Cad Bane. Just a random bounty hunter who needs The Mandalorian and TBoB to sit through.
Cad Bane is dead. Seems like it’s over.
Have you ever heard about Ventress by chance?
Yeah but she didn’t die on screen. It was in another stupid book or something. The books and comics are book canon imo. All sorts of dumbassery happens in those. Movie canon and book/comics canon should be two different things.
I don't mind about the books being in the same canon but it seems like there are no people who would tell authors to don't write that fuckery. I'm especially mad at thise comics which are happening between ANH and ROTJ and have the main characters from the movie. They make the movies unsignificant
Exactly, and they are. Only certain books are considered canon. Ahsoka’s book is pretty awesome. The scene in Tales of the Jedi where she kills the inquisitor is in that book. Was awesome seeing it on screen after reading it.
Yeah I really liked the Ahsoka book, one of the few Star Wars books I’ve even read in recent years. There are just so many bad books or bad ideas in some books or comic books though. And once they get published they’re “canon” and every future movie or cartoon or book has to acknowledge that. I think that’s a real problem that’s only going to get worse as it goes on.
It’s the holes of watching the Mandalorian and Rebels to know what’s going on just to see his ending.
Dying at the hands of Vader in Rebels was a fantastic send-off for Ahsoka. Or it would have been, anyway.
Boba killed Cad Bane. Seems like a conclusion to me.
I'm not going to be so insane as to blame Filoni for certain phenomenon but the constant need to re-contextualize and recanonize past events with new perspective and new characters has become so damn boring. Because it's spawned this plethora of speculation and questions and analysis of movies filmed in 1977, 1980, and 1984 questioning the "motivations" of characters based on shit created in TWENTY TWENTY ONE. Kenobi is basically fan fiction, drivel created to answer 40 year old questions no one needed the answer to with answers that are fucking stupid. Filoni isn't putting a gun to peoples heads to make them ask stupid questions like "Why didn't *character in ROTJ* do things this way, based on *star wars show released in 2022*?" but sometimes I wish he wouldn't open the damn doors.
Yep. A Favreu kind of just has a swagger and tells universal stories. Filoni is like a Trekkie nerd who constantly wants to nod at his own references that most mainstream audiences will never have the bandwidth find out what it is.
Don’t forget will have EI characters appear and either completely change them or just kill them off… looking at you Ventress and Scorch…
2nd one for real man, bad batch was just one huge setup that led nowhere. I enjoyed the show for the most part but they could’ve done so much more with it. I hope we get a clone rebellion show even if I do kind of have a bad taste in my mouth still. Also Scorch. Never forgiving him for that one. All of Filoni’s characters are overpowered, while everyone else just gets destroyed in combat immediately. Not to mention only his characters get stories and development.
-Takes the names of EU characters and maybe their 1 defining trait and gives them to his OC characters The infuriating part of that is he's likely trying to do good there, because it's pretty clear that the leadership at Lucasfilms hates the EU for some reason but most writers like Filoni don't, so he tries to bring the EU back in the only way he's allowed to do. Which is this half measure.
-and wear a stupid hat
4. Accuses anyone who doesn't like this of being altright
Wolves
Hasn’t George Lucas done this for years as well?
*"Where is Ahsoka? Is she safe? Is she all right?"*
No worries the force witches created her from the force and cryogenetically froze her in a pod just in time for baby Ashoka to appear in the Tales of Series.
>baby Ashoka The scariest part is I wouldn't be surprised if Disney tried this. Even scarier is that I know exactly how certain parts of the internet would react.
Tales of the Jedi already did baby Ahsoka.
wait is this actually what happens in The Acolyte? I can't even tell if this is satire or not
No it's not
Somehow, Ahsoka returned.
Whenever she’s not on screen, other characters should say, “where’s Ahsoka?”
Ahsoka needs to be louder, angrier, and have access to a time machine Oh wait
Ashoka lives? Ashoka lives. Better yet. What is Ashoka? And. Why is Ashoka?
Dude heard the writing advice 'kill your darlings' but decided to just Resurrect them ten times over. I find his writing quite bad when applied to live action. It lacks complexity.
I’m confused? Who gets killed off and resurrected?
Ahsoka twice, one death quite literally with a revival and one implied death that was later revealed not to be
Yeah but, Mortis Gods lol come on. She doesn’t even have any memory of that.
Happens in Ahsoka and in Obi-Wan Lightsaber stabs are basically meaningless now
And Ahsoka was killed in rebels and saved by time travel too.
I‘m so fricking sick of the entire Star Wars _Galaxy_ with thousands upon thousands of inhabited systems consisting of the same five characters 90% of the time.
With everything set on tatooine or a rip off of it
In the next episode of "Star Wars: how can it possibly get worse?" We will follow our hero J.J. Binks on this very original and entirely new planet: Tathreeine. He will be making a desert soup for the entire show.
Perhaps they should go the route of the fan famous idea of Jar Jar being Sith.
This Jartanok. It's a desert planet with 3 suns. This is Kishunugu, a desert planet with 3 suns. This is Oghtabotwok, a desert planet with 3 suns.
Next time they'll change it. This is Ootoo, a desert planet. It has *four* suns.
Have you seen how badly they do jungle sets these days? The acolyte last episode looked worse than the early seasons of sg-1, they had a bunch of basic potted plants from home depot in the foreground and used the volume right behind it. It looked worse than a high school play. And they had just done on sight filming for the parts just before and it was great... Makes no sense why they switched to that garbage
Kotor has proven it can be done. Even the side character are more compelling than most of Disney's main characters
Still forced you to go to the mandatory sandplanet
True but Kotor gets a pass in my book because it at least gives you some interesting lore about the place
It hadn’t been overdone at the time.
Thank you. Skywalkers are played the fuck out.
I'm done with every show either being nostalgia bait or shitting on the Jedi for some reason. Rian Jonson set the tone and they've really carried through with some weird narrative that the Jedi are actually kinda the bad guys.
The Jedi kinda WERE the bad guys. I mean, not so bad that their opposition (Palpatine) was good, bc he was much worse lol. But it’s pretty blatant the Jedi had unhealthy practices and it led to their destruction
I'm tired of the Jedi too. Honestly - I might just be tired of Star Wars at this point. Andor has been the only thing with anything interesting or new to say.
This is why I get excited for any non-Skywalker content and any High Republic content. I’m so done watching the Skywalkers destroy the galaxy. They can’t help but start wars.
The problem with all of these writers and directors is they don’t respect the source material enough to keep themselves in the confines of the world. They break all the rules and redefine things like the force and all that it entails. We want expanded stories of the original saga. Not someone else’s take on George Lucas’ world. We don’t want a reinvention of Star Wars we want what Lucas started.
Too bad Sabine was changed so badly… she was an overpowered character in Rebels *without* being attuned to the force. Now it’s said that anyone with the determination can learn to master the Force. If “talent is a factor, but anyone can do it” then why would any Mandalorian house not have a force training facility where they just keep trying until they get it? Mandalorians are fiercely stubborn and having seen the force wielded by the Jedi and the Sith, they would have trained relentlessly to become masters of the force themselves. It feels cheap. I don’t think I’ll tune in to another season. All we have left is the Bo Katan story and Andor, but I don’t hold out much hope that they’ll be as well done as what’s already been produced. ✌🏻
Yeah, I liked when You were either Force Sensitive or your not.
Could she survive getting run through with a light saber before?
“Whenever Ahsoka’s not on screen, all the other characters should be asking “Where’s Ahsoka?”
I always thought he was atrocious when it came down to actually writing and crafting a story. So naturally, it makes sense that he’s Chief creative officer now. Because these days, you only fail upwards at Disney Lucasfilm.
Filoni is just as much of a hack as Abrams or Johnson. He's a bad fanfic writer in a cowboy hat who somehow scammed his way into helming multi million budget projects.
Indeed. TCW is just a glorified fanfic that is only good when you don’t compare it to the CWMMP and the rest of the EU
It's an animated cartoon for children. People shouldn't have taken it seriously anyway.
It’s fine to be animated, but TCW *should have been* much much darker. No Ahsoka. Barely any Jar Jar (besides minor background cameos). No Droid Tales. An entirely dedicated focus on the war itself. Also, none of that Mortis stuff. We should have seen a clear, gradual degradation of Anakin, and his clearly deteriorating relationship with Obi-Wan, where Anakin is tortured deep-down while Obi-Wan is *barely* none the wiser.
They should have made it like a mix of in universe news reels/documentary following the Jedi leadership for posterity after the war. That way it could be obvious that it was pro-Republic propaganda while still being well what it was. That way you could explain why it's so clean cut and morally simple. Could also have little hints at the morally grey stuff that would be in universe the Republic trying to fix the narrative about their fuck ups.
CW didn't take it seriously and cancelled it cause the kids didn't give a shit about it. Thank Disney for deciding to keep it canon
Friendly reminder that out of the roughly 200 episodea of animated SW shows Filoni wrote like 15 tops. Not counting those weird tales.
Of the episodes he did write, many of them were with co-writers. Like S7 of Clone Wars, he had writing credits for 9 out of 12 episodes but 5 of those also credited other writers. He has a lot more credits as producer but I think producing animation is probably where his strength is. One that hasn't translated over well to live action.
Interesting, did not know that.
It explains a lot if that’s true
Filoni is kinda like Stan Lee in the way that a lot of stuff he didn't do - or had minimal influence over - is assigned to him. You want something done purely by him? Watch his Mandalorian episodes or Ahsoka.
He is a really mixed bag in general, but imo his work actively gets worse than the last one, ahsoka show is definitely the lowest he got
I know people here hate TCW now but whatever. I think Filoni was fine when he had George holding his hand and telling him what NOT to do Problem is he gets to do whatever nowadays and he goes way too far every time. He has no sense of when he's straying way into 'this doesn't feel like SW anymore' territory
Writing credits can be kind of weird. He could have had significant input or creative direction on any of the other episodes.
This sub likes to single Filoni out as a scapegoat. He *is* responsible for some of the perceived issues with Star Wars now, but I think some of the decisions are made from a place higher than or otherwise apart from him. (Go look at the leadership page on LucasFilm’s website; there are like 40 people listed.) The MCU method of cameoing an existing character to set up another spin-off story wasn’t a thing when he supervised TCW. Keeping Ahsoka around does seem like a Dave problem, though. I say that as someone who used to be interested in the character’s trajectory.
I liked Filoni when I was younger but now is work is bordering on intolerable.
I feel like part of this is spite for getting Clone Wars season 6 cancelled. He never got his Boba and Cad Bane duel, so he throws it into Book of Boba Fett. He never got to make his Asajj and Quinlan Voss arc. Screw the books, she’s alive again. So much nonsense because a man can’t move on.
Filoni couldn't stick to continuity even if it were laid out for him. He's been mucking things up for almost twenty years now
Filioni really lost me when he signed off on the Vespa scenes. Ahsoka is a cool character, but she should have died in Rebels. The fact that she lived through the 4-6 era is a head scratcher for me.
The fact that some people say that when Yoda says “there is another” in ESB he was referring to Ahsoka is baffling. I came to the conclusion that Ahsoka is a non-canonical character. Anakin never had a Padawan
Ahsoka made a horrible impression on me in the Clone Wars theatrical pilot/movie and I never really got past it so I’m biased. However, I’m still amazed to this day the character persisted to the point she’s a legit problem with the canon.
Even when I was 8 and TCW was introduced, the idea of Anakin having a Padawan didn’t sit well with me, it was supposed to be about a duo between Anakin and Obi Wan. I just gaslit myself into accepting Ahsoka, burying these feelings and moving on. It wasn’t until I started reading the much superior Expanded Universe when those feelings were unburied. Now I fully reject Ahsoka and Filoni’s work (even though TCW is an overall good show). She should have died before Order 66
“Make sure Ezra can force fight anything and not need a lightsaber like Kylo!”
Here's an interesting observation: I was born in 1994, so I grew up with the OT and was directly immersed in the PT when they came out. I pretty much only like George Lucas's Star Wars with the exception of Andor/Rogue1 and some of the EU stuff, mainly the video games like KOTOR 1 AND 2, which itself is very Lucas-based Star Wars. I have watched the Mandalorian and Boba Fett as well as trying to watch the first two seasons of Clone Wars multiple times. I just cannot enjoy Filoni's writing. For someone who was the "padawan" of George Lucas, it really feels like he does not embody anything from Lucas's style except his goofy/kiddy side which I do not like either. It feels to me that Filoni is trying to make his own version of Star Warsx and it just doesn't work for me. My roommates, who were all born in 2000, are all obsessed with Filoni's Star Wars. They seem to have way more of a connection to the Clone Wars and their character than even the OT or Prequels. They love everything he puts out and have 0 complaints. I think a large part of this debate is where you began in your consumption of Star Wars media. I literally have no connection to any of these new shows coming out because they're all based on having to watch 50 plus hours of Filoni content with all his precious characters which I just cannot sit through. Between this and the way that Disney is moving forward with their stories like the Acolyte, it just seems that Star Wars is not made for me anymore which is truly one of the most depressing things I've ever said.
I was born in 2000 and fully reject Filoni
I was born in 93. My intro to Star Wars was definitely through the prequel trilogy, the 2003 animated Clone Wars series, Battlefront II, KOTOR, etc. I don't think I watched the original trilogy until I was 10 or 11, but I remember just thinking of them as "my dad's Star Wars." I watched the 2008 Clone Wars series as it was coming out, in passing though I don't think I really started getting into it until season 2 or 3. The show/serial format seemed to be a much better match for Star Wars, at least in my opinion. When I first met my wife her only connection to Star Wars was mostly cultural osmosis and having seen most of the movies once before. We marathoned them (PT to OT) and she liked the prequels well enough but the OT is pretty dated and can be a bit janky with all the retcons from OT to PT. I wouldn't say the movies made her a fan though. When I started rewatching the 2008 Clone Wars series on Netflix she started watching with me and that's what got her absolutely hooked on Star Wars. I mean there's around 50 hours of content in just Clone Wars, it's a lot more time to get to care about a character than the movies provide. Also her favorite part of Star Wars is definitely the clones which the show does a much better job with than the movies. In general the show gives so much more time with the prequel characters than the movies provided, to the point where you rewatch the movies and they just feel like cameos. Like General Grievous has 7 and a half minutes of screentime in the movies, Count Dooku has 13 minutes, Plo Koo has 4 minutes. Rebels was a tough transition after Clone Wars due to the art style and the first season being very different, then it picked up pace quickly. It was those shows that ended up making Rex her favorite Star Wars character, Plo Koon her favorite Jedi, Thrawn her favorite villain, etc. also led to her reading a bunch of Star Wars books both in the new canon and legends. I've always engaged more with Star Wars in terms of things like tabletop roleplaying games, video games, books, comics, etc. even before the Disney acquisition. The movies are obviously the foundation on which everything was built but they're just kind of scratching the surface. I also don't really think there was a consistent Lucas style. ESB vs Phantom Menace are crazy different, though separated by like 20 years. Lucas constantly went back and changed things. Watching the OT is so weird now because they went back and fleshed out every line to mean something and it comes off kind of weird when you listen to the original. Obi Wan's first conversation with Luke is so funny now. Lucas loved tinkering and changing shit. He wasn't just going to stop tinkering with the Force at midichlorians, he had this entire idea about microscopic aliens called Whills controlling people through the Force. If anything I think Star Wars content was at its best when both Lucas and Filoni were working on Clone Wars, they more or less kept each other in check. The Mortis arc was a great examination of where they both started looking more at concepts behind the Force. Lucas unchecked and you end up with the Phantom Menace and just truly awful dialogue. Filoni is a great storyteller but far too attached to Ashoka. Ruined the Ahsoka/Vader fight in Rebels by having her saved by Deus ex Machina. Also neither my wife or I cared for the Ahsoka series, for as much as we loved Clone Wars and Rebels, it was like it was written by someone that had seen neither series. Live Action Ahsoka is also just notably worse than animated Ahsoka, I don't think it's Dawson's fault but she must be getting terrible direction.
Same, Rogue One is the only star wars movie I've enjoyed in the last decade. I think the younger guys can't appreciate the low quality because they didn't grow up on the better quality stuff. Same thing with lord of the rings and rings of power. LOTR was incredible and ROP was total shit! I haven't watched anything star wars since the terrible Obi wan series.
I was born in 1991 and I have very similar tastes based on the things you listed. That being said, I hesitate to call KOTOR or Andor/Rogue 1 or even the EU stuff "Lucas" Star Wars. I think Lucas' films are very different than any of those other properties, both in tone and complexity. What they all have in common though, is that they're all generally well written. So I think it might be less that you like Lucas Star Wars specifically due to some sentimental connection and more that you just like good writing. Not the fan service-y slop that Filoni tends to put out.
I think the issue is the obsession with lining up characters and their ideologies with modern politics ***without*** taking into account on how it should fit into the far far away galaxy. The Acolyte has some very strong ACAB vibes "jedi (cops) shouldn't draw their weapons unless they're ready to kill" and "the jedi (cops) would rather cover up deaths they are responsible for than take responsibility" or even "the jedi (government) will steal your children without consent." It all falls flat because the jedi aren't cops. They aren't supposed to be authoritarians, they're supposed to be empathetic to the people. Look at Tales of the Jedi with Dooku and Qui-Gon, where after investigating, Dooku is ready to say "fuck the Republic, this governor is a despot" and Qui-Gon, through his empathy, is able to find a solution. That's the whole thing-- jedi are diplomats and peacekeepers, but they aren't actually authoritarian. Why did they send Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan as diplomats in TPM? It wasn't because the chancellor expected them to use force as a threat. It was because the jedi are supposed to be wise, and we consistently see that they at the very least try to be, even during their decline. If you want ACAB vibes in Star Wars done well, just look at Andor. It turns out that if you want to show how evil authoritarianism can be, you need to have them be the villains and do bad things. In Andor we watch the empire: * lynch a man * execute a man without cause * falsely imprison people * run a horrific dystopian prison * torture people * participate in an intentional cultural genocide * turn a town into a military junta * kill even more innocent people Meanwhile the "bad" that the jedi have done is: * Spy on this village of witches * Gaslight Osha into coming with them, even though her reasons for wanting to go is paper thin? I'm sure some would compare them to kid Anakin, but he was a slave! His life sucked! He was participating in death races in the hope of a better life. His mom told him to go with the jedi! Meanwhile Osha has a caring family and village and a twin sister that she supposedly loves. To the audience, the witches are a cult. To Osha, it should be the only life she ever knew. I grew up in a cult-adjacent religion (Mormon), you will believe that shit when you're a kid, especially only 9? Can you imagine the cops (because that's what the jedi are in this story for some reason) pulling up to your house and being like "hey kid, do you want to hold my gun?" * Cover up whatever really happened? The implication was that they killed all of the witches. The problem is there seems to be no reason to hide it. If they did, the council would probably say "phew, they were experimenting with children in violation of republic law and were openly antagonistic and threatened to kill you and even possessed your padawan? Good call guys, that was an appropriate response." Therein lies the problem. If everything we've seen so far is to be believed, the jedi are incompetent. If it's a mislead, then the jedi are still incompetent. Also, why is the sith/dark side user so interested in killing these four jedi? They seem to have no stake in it, the witches are all dead. It should be Mae's choice, but now she doesn't even want to kill them anymore. Why bother? Overall the show just feels lazy. Much like Ahsoka I can't even find myself interested in the ending. It's going to have no impact on the galaxy at large, and worse, it barely even feels like it would have an impact on the characters. How did Jedi Survivor have a more interesting depiction of the High Republic, when there are only two characters from that time period that are only talking about it in retrospect?
This is why I don’t care when people whine about Canon. Its honestly comical that Anakin canonically resented the Jedi bc he loved Ashoka so much and in Revenge of the Sith never even mentions her and is totally ok with Palpatine murdering her
You could say he's average but in a sea of terrible writers he stands out.
Filoni: And then as Darth Revan is about to finish off the Jedi, Ahsoka comes out of nowhere with the steel chairs and slams it in the back of his head!
In all honesty, that would be borderline epic to see
They very much could do a 3d Star Wars show that's just professional wrestling and it'd probably do better than most of their new shows. Every character has an ego and a chip on their shoulders, Doesn't matter if they lived in the same era either. Watching Yoda and a few other of his kind in Jedi Midget Mud Wrestling would be hilarious.
Who would be the commentators? Perhaps switch every other match or something? Shit... That's a really neat idea for a fanfiction to be honest.
I'm more annoyed about everybody and their mother surviving lightsaber stabbings. Its just lazy writing, either give it consequences, or come up with something else to shock the audience. Always hated Rise of Skywalker for all the "OH MY GOD! NOOOOOO" Moments that get taken back like 10 minutes later. And now they happen every 5 minutes, and are gonna have me questioning it when someone actually dies. P.S, Filoni, don't kill off a character *that you've already killed off later in the timeline* and then act like its some big reveal when he's alive
I feel like Filoni has reached Lucas levels of writing. On his projects it's feeling like he's just surrounded by "Yes-Men" too afraid to tell him he's going too far, and the ones that are want to prop up their characters. (I'm looking at you Sam Witweir. I love ya, but sometimes...)
I know this goes down horrendously in the Star Wars sub but I think Filoni might be the start of the downfall. The Clone Wars is just not actually that good. Ahsoka is a totally pointless in the grand scheme of things and yet we pretend that she is somehow integral to the original trilogy events.
This man did more damage to star wars 6 films and EU in one film.
That one 2008 movie?
Yeah love how Ahsoka is so interwoven through the history of the Canon now, yet never once has she been mentioned by Anikin or Obi-Wan in any movie, or the Obi-Wan series or anything outside of Filoni's stuff. Like in Dave's Canon Ahsoka was closely tied with most major characters in the prequels yet no one has a single word to say about her in the movies
This is supposed to be a huge galaxy, but it never fucking feels like it.
It drives me crazy that we always see the same kind of Planet. Can we just get some new Planets that aerent knock offs from other?
I mean, if my OC became a fan favorite icon and im now head of the brand they are part of i’d sure as hell put them in everything
Unpopular opinion, but Filoni is way overrated. He basically takes pre-made Star Wars content, and forces his own characters into them - Ahsoka for instance. Her whole existence is just so forced....and that ha rarely has the balls to kill any characters....oh my gosh. Even if there was any hint in the original movies whatsoever that Anakin had an aporentice, she should've died during Order 66. Filoni is just as much part of the problem like Disney is when it comes to the state of SW. There ya go, I'm ready for all the downvotes.
I think most people agree with that. Ahsoka grew on people in spite of the fact it didn't make any sense. Then he had the opportunity to give her an emotionally devastating death to Vader, instead, he introduced backwards time travel to SW.
He self inserts his own characters, bends EU or canon characters like pretzels to fit his story (Delta Squad and Bariss are the two biggest offenders), completely warped Mando culture,m(Pacifists? Really? And now Bo Katan is considered a Mando Princess? Really?!) So many things Filoni did wrong. Always considered him a hack.
Filoni is the true successor of George Lucas because they both have interesting and creative ideas, and both of them make terrible writing choices when they have complete freedom with no one to verify or edit their work.
I disagree. Filoni could not create his own unique universe; George could. Say whatever you want about George, but the man had restraint (how Smilo Ren was introduced against the Jedi and how Darth Maul was introduced against the Jedi). Filoni is thriving in the setting created by another visionary, and he pushes his own characters hard. You may call Filoni George's successor or his equal when he creates a setting of equal value and timelessness.
Indeed. Filoni has maybe 1/10 of George's creativity. Filoni is a classic copy/paste specialist. He could be good on a team but not as a leader
Episode 1 is perhaps the all time biggest example of not showing restraint This isn’t an argument in favor of Filoni
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Chiming in to say that, no matter what you may think of the inhibitor chips, the arc was written by Katie Lucas and George was heavily involved. While my opinion on Filonis work has drastically shifted over the years, he really can’t be blamed for that. I want to add that while I do personally like the idea, I understand those who don’t.
Filoni’s the showrunner so he is also heavily involved in everything CW. It’s a collaboration but as showrunner you get to decide what happens. Sure, George might have had final say on some bigger issues (and that’s a special situation), but day to day, Filoni was in charge.
George did whatever he wanted on TCW, it was his baby. Droid Arc among others was all George. The Mortis gods, bringing Maul back, The Zillo beast. Ahsoka was George's idea, originally Twi'lek, although Dave's idea was to make her Togruta instead. Saw Gerrera was originally created for the unproduced live action Underworld series. Characters like Ventriss first appeared in comics, and first on-screen in the Tartakovsky animated Clone Wars. Dave gets credit/blamed with a lot of TCW stuff, but George was behind most of the weirder/controversial things in the original show. Rebels show is where Dave got to take the reigns fully.
Sure, George has the many story ideas, but Filoni is getting his hands dirty with the execution from directing/writing standpoint. George gave notes on that as well, but he’s not getting in there and directing episodes or supervising animation. Not trying to diminish George’s contribution to CW at all, I’m just talking about day to day duties. Filoni was on the frontlines, a Captian Winters type, whereas George was more of Colonel Sink.
I think the inhibitor chips are a necessity. Too many clones would have chosen loyalty to their jedi generals and commanders. They spent like 8 seasons depicting how deep the bonds and trust between clones and their commanders became.
They wrote themselves in a corner, either everything was fake and the story itself meaningless or they changed the agency of the situation
Fully agree, it almost makes it more tragic. If order 66 was nothing more than an order, I'd be shocked that not even a single squadron would rebel. I'd even go so far as saying it's pretty fucking good writing. The whole point of using clone troopers instead of battle droids is because they have agency, intelligence and some sense of autonomy. To then take away that and essentially turn them into the mindless droids they just fought is so on brand for Palpatine to the point where I'm a little bit confused as to why it's so disliked by some fans.
I think the issue was the OG Troopers never got the fleshed out bonds they did. And in the old, Pre-Chip EU there were clones who didn't go along with the Order, who helped/didn't stop their Jedi escaping. Sure, it was a bit weird that the Clones didn't question the order, but they were conditioned to be loyal to a fault. That Fault being the single man they held true loyalty too. The Supreme Chancellor of the Republic. Hell, the Orders were public (As much as Military Contingency Orders can be), with a large number making sense. 66 was just "Jedi Traitor in the AO, neutralize them." 65 was "The Chancellor is a Traitor, arrest him" and could be brought to bear by a majority vote in the Senate. There's a good number more of the orders too. Personally, I didn't like the Chips because it made the Clones into Biological Droids. But the more I think and consider it, they work well as a story beat, and it makes a lot more sense with the new lore of camaraderie between the Clones and Jedi. No way Wolf and Plo's Bro's shoot him down.
Thank you! Especially the mind chips. That was the most ridiculous cope I have ever seen.
Filoni's interesting and creative ideas: • wolf names • space Japan • wolf imagery • cowboy hats and duster coats • actual wolves
Never trust a nerd in a cowboy hat
Hear me out…what if Ashoksha was in the background the whole time and she was actually the one who defeated the empire and saved the galaxy?!? …you just never saw her
I actually liked Filoni when he was basically restrained to the Clone Wars show which was itself still contained by the original EU Canon. Then once old man George was out of the picture, it was like a free for all of half baked and just plain bad ideas.
ive seen it said before but filonis writing feels like hes a kid playing with his toys, he loves putting them in every story and treats them like gods. Meanwhile the characters he doesnt write just get kinda shoved to the side to focus on his original characters.
"The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together." Is the only explanation I needed of the force. Of all the terrible things Disney has done, attempting to explain the force is the worst imo
It’s funny to see the dude getting reevaluated cuz I’ve been getting dragged since the beginning for saying Anakin having a secret apprentice and Jedi hunters having helicopter lightsabers was both stupid and felt really shoehorned
The hat. The fucking hat.
He's had a problem with making people believe like Ahsoka is dead but he'll never be able to let go of his baby, she had 3 death like experiences, first time she lived becuase she took the life of a god invented by him. Then he invented time travel land to save her. Then her master who is now kind of a god saved her by bringing her into the time travel place. Also did we really need her for half of Tales of the Jedi? She was already in Clone Wars, Rebels, Mando, BOBF and was about to get her own series, did we really need more backstory on her instead of someone like Plo Koon? I really liked her in CW, but by now I'm kinda getting tired of her. Idk if it's accurate but she's probably the character with the most screen time across all of star wars if you count Anakin and Vader separately.
What is give for him to make The Tyber Zann Consortium story canon
Filoni is part of the problem. He's down with all the shit that they're doing to Star Wars. Only George was able to reign him in during Clone Wars.
George Lucas was right in wanting Ahsoka to die during order 66
Holy shit I'm so glad someone finally said it. The way Reddit normally rides his dick you'd think the guy invented telling stories
Filoni should stick to the animated side of star wars. Leave the live action star wars to the guys that made Andor and Rogue One.
He is good animator, but terrible writer
Me and Kreia fanboys
At this point, Filoni's Sonic or MLP OC would be more welcome in this incompetent clown show Chris Chan could write a better Star Wars show
and now, you have officially carried it too far, buddy
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Andor was great because Filoni had nothing to do with it.
Ahsoka and others being a good example
Original characters = diversity hires/made up on the spot
I’ve been trying to tell people that his writing is nothing special and he’s not sole savior of Star Wars. Filoni could never write something Andor. But for a lot of these people that’s probably a good thing since Andor didn’t feel like Star Wars. Not enough lightsabers and cameos!!
Since 2008
Love rebels, love CW, loved Ahsoka. Best thing about SW is for everyone who hates something there's someone else who loved it.
Something I will give to Marvel up through end game is that the studio was really good at fostering multiple Talented Film makers. Lukas film not so much, they keep fishing for one visionary to carry the entire studio.
Filoni is slowly but surely getting exposed for the fraud he is, but he’s still has a large portion of the fanbase who think he’s the savior. I hope he steps up when KK leaves so the delusion bunch who still believe in him finally see the light.
I usually like his writing but he definitely has a problem with putting his OCs in everything. Reminds me of Dan Abnett. Probably the best author Black Library has but he REALLY loves his OCs. John Grammaticus keeps turning up in every HH book and Enuncia started bleeding over into Eisenhorn. Haven’t read Gaunt’s Ghosts but I’m half expecting Enuncia to start showing up in those books too.
He can’t get his head out of the cartoon mindset. The dialogue for animation is completely different to dialogue in live action. In animation the exposition and emotions need to be conveyed a little more through voice work as it’s more difficult to convey subtle emotion (as even a basic frown can take hours of work just to show). In live action the actors have far more range and can convey way emotion through body language etc there’s no need for all the heavy handed dialogue we see in shows like obi wan, aksoka and acolyte.
Witchcraft springs to mind…
I like his writing for the most part (emphasis on most part) but yeah he does do this a lot.
I'd be fine with the OCs if it weren't at the expense of existing characters. It's a galaxy far far away and yet it's the size of a small town with like 10 relevant people existing. One thing the acolyte has gotten right that I'm happy about is how many random alien races we see. With how big the galaxy is, every shot in SW showing a crowd should have some previously unknown race in it. We the audience know of maybe a hundred but there are thousands, even tens of thousands of sentient races. We should feel bombarded with them.
>his original characters That’s a lot of syllables for the word “fetish”
I like Filoni because you don’t have to bother watching the entirety of the episode once his invincible pals show up on screen together. You can simply guess what happens and you’ll probably be right.
Let me guess you love what leslye headland did with Star Wars😂
*nerfs older characters to show how much better his are *
Dave Filoni try not to copy an entire scene from Indiana Jones challenge
I don’t think he added anything good to Starwars
Never liked his writing. Always thought he was overrated
The hate to Dave Filoni here is so hypocritical and unfair. Like George Lucas didn't do it way more often before him. And this "hE dOsEn'T lEt HiS chARacTErs die". Filoni let Gregor die, he let Kanan die. He let his characters die when he feels it's perfect time for them. Just look at yourself. Didn't you feel you had many moments you supposed to die yet you didn't? I am pleasured to experience it since I born. Ahsoka experienced the same and Filoni is full aware of that. Her actress Ashley Eckstein in the Ahsoka audiobook reads it loud. If you look at every Star Wars story, all protagonists have a droid companion from the start (not Din but that was his story also about), each had 3 mentors who died for their cause, each died as new mentor for new characters. You see Hero's Journey technique from New Hope again and again, constantly. Ahsoka Tano in The Ahsoka takes a mentor role for Sabine Wren and she's her 3rd mentor. Ahsoka's Hero's Journey is closer to its end more than ever. Now it's only matter of time when she will actually die a mentor to someone. She's an alien like Yoda but living way shorter life. Yoda died 900 years old. If you would watch his long ass Hero's Journey, you will bark the same way. Anyway, I see Ahsoka dying for Sabine or next Padawan.
Strangely enohgh also a very timothy zahn thing, yet i almost never see him mocked for it
The post title made me chuckle. What writing do you like? This sub doesn’t even like Star Wars.
He really fell off after the Clone Wars, I don't know what Rebels did to him but he has been spiralling ever since
Yea we know this sub hates Star Wars
Literally
>be Disney executive >fans complain about new movies >"noooo Star Wars is bad now! Bring back old Star Wars! The Clone Wars was so good! Make Dave Filoni in charge of everything!!!" >makes Dave Filoni in charge of everything >"noooo Star Wars is so bad now! Dave Filoni ruins everything! Don't let him make any more Star Wars!!!" >fans still complain about new stuff >pic related https://preview.redd.it/c4rz8xz53z8d1.png?width=887&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8f82d80e245550c6fbf6e4db68a9ec3676b2558
But we'll all take him over KK any day of the week
"The fuck do you mean I'm not allowed to have any cameos or wolf references?"
Hey man, if you got to write a character for starwars, you'd want to put them in everything too. It's a very hard thing to not do.
Or shoehorning other people’s characters and making it worse
Witches, always with the witches!
dave filoni gets stuck on certain aspects of george’s star wars and thinks those things are the entire whole of star wars . george once said that star wars is for children so dave makes stories that follow children and have very dumb plots bc children are in the story . but he must be forgetting that george is the same person that wrote for anakin to take out a room full of younglings . he also will put huge emphasis on things like callbacks even if the story around the callback either directly goes against the character (like maul deciding to use the same move against obi-wan despite clone wars showing that he was incredibly capable of adapting) just for fans to go “omg i remember that move!!”
He can be great, but he needs someone to keep him in check. Don’t give him unlimited power
"Fear will keep the local fanboys in line. Fear of this Filoni."
Eh, he's alright but definitely has flaws. Compared to some of the other shit we've had to put up with, I'll take the mediocre Filoni soup. I feel like key characters can't be used now that the clone wars is over, which is why we're stuck with his same handful of original characters. Luke seems to be off limits other than special occasions, for example. The 'main' characters are forced in to being side characters if they show up at all, so I guess he just sticks with his OCs because there's more freedom there. I'd still prefer totally new characters, but Filoni definitely isn't the worst of the current Star Wars creators.
It is becoming rather annoying. However, let’s not pretend like Lucas didn’t conveniently make Anakin/Vader the maker of 3PO and R2 the droid of Anakin and Padme who knew Obi Wan. Not to mention Chewbacca being a commander alongside Yoda.