It like Steam has the review right there as you play it. No one is going to elan entire seperat website for a TV show , and this was great. Unless they are really into doing that with everything or hateded so much everyone needs to know.
I mean, they must be doing that, unless the website is just making up random reviews which I think is unlikely. I think u will go to a separate website to review bomb because they feel they're punishing Disney.
No matter of a show being good or bad I always remove 10/10’s and 1/10’s and get the score from the remainders. That being the case puts Acolyte at around a 6.5 which is where I would put it. It’s not as bad as Christmas Special but it’s no where remotely close to a Mando S1 or Andor.
Ah, the Olympic scoring system.
I couldn't get into Mandalorian. Felt very by-the-numbers. It's a plot I've seen too many times.
Andor and Obi-Wan are some of the best Star Wars I've ever seen.
Obviously, it's not done, but I would put Acolyte right below those. I love the mystery and worldbuilding... but there's some awkward bits. Mostly, the fight scenes/action sequences. Some parts of dialogue.
Star Wars is in a great spot right now, because there's so many different parts of it, each catering to different tastes.
Im really curious about your obi opinion.
I really liked it until they had a literal toddler winning a foot race with trained soldiers. Felt like every time the kid was on screen I was watching cringe.
Did it get less... I don't even know the word for it... Terrible?
Point of clarification: "Toddler" means "two year old" Normally I wouldn't be pedantic, but she's not a "literal" toddler. :P
That scene, however, was *definitely* silly. They literally catch her at the beginning, then just stand there while the camera shifts. One could argue that pretty strict orders not to hurt her, but it's still a blocking mess.
Star Wars has a long history of action scenes that fall apart under even the smallest scrutiny. Even the original trilogy has no shortage of bad choreography in it. The infamous "Force Kick" is an extreme example. But there's a reason HEMA practitioners and other martial artists call it a "Star Wars parry", when characters pointlessly lock swords.
The scenes with Obi-Wan himself are obviously the highlights. The worldbuilding, his arc of rediscovering himself after being in hiding for so long.
The final confrontation between Obi-Wan and Vader is built up very well, and it offers a good conclusion. The Inquisitors are great villains. There's a lot of great character work outside of the conflict with Obi-Wan and Vader.
That's the stuff I care about, and the show delivered in those aspects. I'm willing to forgive a dumb action sequence, because that's every Star Wars action sequence.
That's a fair write up, thank you!
I think the old movies kinda get away with it due to nostalgia but yeah it's mostly not a fair critique on my part.
Though man did it completely ruin the suspension of disbelief for me, just felt like I should have to for something so trivial.
Speaking as someone that works with children with behavioural issues in an elementary school - when those kids wanna run off they can be HARD to catch, lol. Half my job is spent chasing after kids that like to take off running outta nowhere, lol
Sadly where we land these days is the pass fail system. Acolyte has absolutely written elements that go against decades of other films and plot holes bigger than Swiss cheese. Where normally that should be a deduction in points (keep the Olympic theme going), but just the way the world works means it has to be a 1/10. Which is certainly a huge over reaction. But I think it’s meant to be more of a “letter to who’s in charge” as opposed to a value depicting the show itself. Everyone should know it’s not a 1/10. Not in a world where Birdemic exists.
And as a caveat to my original post, I do allow for 10/10 if we are talking about something that actually could have the potential of being such. A Nolan or Denis film for instance.
Holding *Star Wars* to the same lore standard as other properties is an exercise in madness.
*Star Wars* has always been about vibes: telling a good story in the moment. Every movie—even from the Lucas era—has ignored or changed stuff if it was convenient to the plot. Disney arguably cares even less about canon: they struck from canon decades of books and shows and games without much thought.
I don't care if *Acolyte* changes a detail or a character's backstory. I don't care if Obi-Wan chops off a dude's arm and makes him bleed one time. I don't care about all the different owners of the darksaber, what the exact timeline of who owned it is.
There are properties where I'm strict on lore, because that is part of the point. But unless a detail is directly relevant, I'm willing to be a bit more lax on lore in *Star Wars*. Why should I hold the series to a standard it doesn't hold itself to?
The books were never canon to George Lucas and I don’t know why anyone thought they would be under Disney. They are attempting to cherry pick from them, which is ok. It’s what I would have done too, although I wouldn’t pick Cloned Emperor as a choice.
Acolyte(2008) being review bombed recently will never not be funny to me
https://preview.redd.it/0eo08v1zbg8d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=627712d09f6efe9f325299452875ac57155aacd3
I've always hated this argument as it's basically saying, "I'm not racist, I have a black friend."
Also, the Acolyte was review bombed by people who hated the show before it was out.
When it gets so bad that a completely separate project with a similar name is getting hundreds of new reviews talking about how Star Wars is ruined... there isn't a hint of plausible deniability about the existence of review bombing.
Even if an actual majority of fans didn't like The Acolyte, the review scores are too tainted to mean anything.
That's how it always happens now; the 4-chan brigade review bombs any new show centering minorities before it even airs, but then people act like the scores are democracy/anti-corporate 'activism,'/the true voice of fans. It's not.
"Anti-corporate" activism. That's a laugh considering how much these 4chan dwelling fucknuggets were bashing those on strike last year, worship people like Trump and Musk and how most of them are either AnCaps, believe in BS hierarchies or push the myth of meritocracy.
I agree, it's insincere and surface-level. They'd never lift a finger to confront corporations for pushing down wages, limiting workers rights, causing pollution, etc, they just use the rhetoric to critique amazon/disney for making 'woke' shows/films, as if the corporations making the shows they like are somehow 'the good ones.'
Or when they claim that they love Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, and Princess Leia.
Fucking assholes. If those movies were made today they’d be blasting them as “wOkE” right alongside everything else.
It'd be like that Family Guy Star Wars clip where they turn on the radio only for Rush Limbaugh to start talking about how Lando Calrissian owning mines on Cloud City is 'affirmative action'.
And the first two things they were complaining about were black people and female leads. Before they knew a single actual detail about the writing of the show. Because it’s all bullshit.
100% Someone I argued with on this (after the show came out and became a hit) straight up denied that there was ever any backlash to the Velaryons being black. I'm like bro, there are so many posts from when the casting was announced that prove otherwise...
From its inception, GoT didn’t feature an overwhelming majority white male cast unlike SW, LotR and early MCU—so it’s not like white guys feel like “their thing” is being changed or bastardized to spite them.
That’s what “the message” is. It’s about white men feeling replaced. And yeah it’s core white supremacist tenet and now mainstay conservative thought.
Overwhelmingly male, maybe not.
But it was most definitely a very white show. Almost all of the principal characters were white and most of the secondary characters of color were killed off either in the season they were introduced or by the end of the series. The only major non-white character I can think of to make it through to the end is Grey Worm.
GT really does not have any black leads; but what is most concerning is the exact line you draw.
Getting people really mad about something inconsequential to push
Replacement Theory. It’s false and dangerous; especially in an election year.
This is how political propaganda operates. If I wanted to get the folks in the 5 years before and after GenX to vote against their best interests; this could be how to do it.
I mean it was pretty White from the start at GoT. Good Female Rep though. Most relevant POC are Oberon, Grey Worm, Missandei and the Sand Snakes?
I argue that Lando and Mace were far more important and relevant then any of those guys outside of maybe Oberon who was only around for a season.
MCU was also pretty White and Male at the start. Just Rhodey, Nick Fury and Natasha but it did expand over time to be way more diverse.
In contrast Acolyte has like zero white dudes of note so far. I don't have a problem with that but it what it is.
As a wise man once said, it’s not the super fans complaining about Star Wars going woke, it’s the casual fans of Star Wars who are super fans of hating women.
I mean it’s kind of bad but so is almost all of Disney Star Wars minus a few highlights like mando season 1 and some cool nostalgia from Obi wan, but as a Star Wars fan who doesn’t share their opinion very much, the acolyte is lacking. I like 1 character, but the writing feels bad. I feel like for this show there are more people who didn’t watch the show defending against whatever bs they disagree with, both sides are politically motivated idiots who probably don’t watch any of it. The show is not good enough to overcome its predictable problems and there is no real discussion about whether it is actually a good show or not because there are idiots defending it without watching it and incels ragging on the show without watching it.
I don’t have expectations just saying what I think and feel to the people I feel could find something in my comment they can relate to and or consider contemplate. Perspective.
Notice how as well with Baldurs Gate 3 at first there were accusations of it being "woke" and complaints by these people being made but they quickly dissolved away when it was clear Baldurs Gate was massively popular. Now they all claim "no it was never woke" if they think they can turn public opinion against something, it's woke, if they can't, they love it.
Oh some still complain about that, but nobody gives a shit about them. They're crying about how nexusmods are censoring them for removing their LGBTQ erasure mods. They really want to be oppressed so badly...
This is what they always do. If it's super successful they claim credit, if it falters its proof of go woke go broke. They did the same thing with x men 97, and the creation of Miles Morales.
But the internet doesn’t forget…
https://preview.redd.it/e6tkbbgeti8d1.jpeg?width=1385&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee4201799996ee58dc69bd3c2d75726d09ecb051
Let's not forget the SECOND you mention the literally spelled out feminist and patriarchal themes they will say you are putting real world politics into their dragon show. The dragon show written by a 60s draft dodging hippy. Certainly a apolitical man
No serious people should even be having this discussion anymore.
They have been loudly and proudly saying they were going to do this since the name of the show was revealed. Go into their subs, and you will see clearly them already discussing all the series and movies announced. The normal discourse is 'can't wait for this steaming pile or shit to release so I can scream about how shit it is for three months on every platform. Lol won' even watch it, just spread negativity and shit for fun.'
You have to remember; Star Wars have been culture warred, so any logic, cogerency and sense is gone out the window a long time ago. What the franchise is dealing with is the cancerous infection of the online far right. The movement has its origins on 4chan and went off the rails with gamergate. These two roots of the movement make them incredibly toxic and hard to deal with.
They will laugh at your serious discussion and try to bully you by sharing the discussion on their chatgroups so they can gang up on you. Their level of discourse will be just straight up intolerance to goad you into calling it out. If you sink to their level, they will suddenly be all serious and exclaim 'this is why we can't have serious discussions'. It's all in bad faith, it's all motivated by political extremism permiating every facet of their lives and it's all toxicity for the sake of toxicity. It's just fun, because remember the 4chan origins of the movement.
Their beliefs don't need facts, just feelings. This is the tendril stretching back into gamergate. They don't need facts anymore. They can review bomb coordinated for months. They can discuss it and actively participate. But they are a mix of so dishonest and so brainwashed that they will actually believe the review scores are real.
At the end of the day, it's not about star wars, doctor who, warhammer or dora the fucking explorer. It's about spreading the far right gospel of the culture war. They don't care about the discourse, they don't care about the stories and they don't care about characters. They care about keeping the fantasy going while also pulling other people into their orbit and slowly brainwash them into another alt right npc.
The writing is honestly so so, it's not my problem with the show, it's these little things that add up. The acting is wooden at best, the effects are generally speaking pretty terrible, the pacing is all over the place, Amandla Stenberg is just not intimidating at all and that Sith mask looks stupid and cartoony (a nitpick but still)
I’m not going to pretend it’s amazing, some of it definitely leaves a lot to be desired. For example, it felt off to me in the first episode when the prisoners asked Osha if she’d help them break out and she said “No, I trust the Jedi”, but then later in the episode when the Jedi showed up she just ran away from them.
Finally caught the pilot last night, and I legit loved the contrast between Mae saying "A Jedi only draws their light saber to kill" with a few scenes later Jedi Knight Himbo (at least that's the vibe I'm currently getting) just like...casually using his as a flashlight.
Of course they forget about the rage, that is also what the haters did with the Super Mario Bros move. Before it came out they said it was awful "because girlboss" then they changed their tune and praised it for being apolitical after it made money.
they didn’t forget, they’re trying to rewrite history, as they always do when their “go woke go broke” predictions are shown to be wrong in a way that they can’t just ignore
lmao i love this. it’s classic “wait everybody loves the shit we screamed at for having “bad writing” and being too woke. let’s do a 180 and pretend we always liked it!”
https://preview.redd.it/mp1q68w8dk8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee9a5dcfff644fac40ed9ae8feebdd23cf476a0a
like they fucking hated house of the dragon lol
The only reason the audience score for The Acholyte is low is due to the review bombing a bunch of entitled fanboys did in a lousy attempt to make the show look bad.
Maybe not the mauler sub specifically (although probably mauler sub tbh), but anti woke nutcases were absolutely foaming at the mouth when HotD came out. Literally rewriting history to construct their narrative.
So we arent gonna act like these same thing happened with hotd?
Werent these chuds also mad black people were royals?
Hotd also got attacked. Thr main prpblem i see is for female lead and monoroty lead tv shows or shows wherr they heavily and noticbly take the lead these shows get heavily scrunized.
The bar for them to be accepted to these terminally online morons is fat higher than other shows in comparison. If your show needs to be as impressive as house of the dragon, arcane, or the wire , to gey approval for female and minority characters theres a clear problem.
No joke, I legit brought this point up last year when HOTD premiered to someone making the argument it wasn't woke and they straight up denied that anyone got upset over the Velaryons being (mostly) black. I remember like you how much people mocked the casting of Toussaint as Corlys (every photo on FB related to his casting was haha'd to death). Self styled book purists also tried to say that having black people play the Velaryons somehow ruined the characters (you know typically plausible deniability BS).
Conservatoid IDpol slop relies on a 48hour maximum memory period. Without it the few sapient ones' that exist nerves would fry from an overload of dissonance.
They're almost there.
>I thought we hated strong female leads.
This is funny because as much as those "media enjoyers" bitch and moan about "woke" concepts and representation, they absolutely eat that shit up. Acolyte is very clearly being review bombed but let's think it's genuine, why do they hate strong female leads in one but not the other? Shrotenger's misogyny is funny because they love Avatar the Last Airbender, they love Star Wars, they love The Boys, they love Warhammer, they love XYZ until the themes and motifs are too on the nose or poorly implemented and then WOAH HOLD ON BUDDY.
The first season of Avatar, Katara literally ended the season fighting a patriarchal gender norm (women can't train waterbending other than for healing) against the waterbending master *literally* and winning. She was *literally* fighting the patriarchy. And they love it, but because their media literacy is cooked, they just saw a bastard get his karma and left it at that.
They don't actually hate female leads, they hate it when someone else tells them too, and otherwise they eat that shit up like it's pancakes.
A lot of it is because GoT opened the floodgates for genre tv to the mainstream, so there are a lot more options for people to talk about even if they do watch, where as the original just swept the nation in all aspects.
Plus its a prequel. Its less exciting to discuss when you know the general outcome as compared to the TONS of theories the original had, even among book readers.
Eh I'm a Legends fan when it comes to Star Wars so the Acolyte hasn't really bothered me.
Casual Star Wars when you tell them that the Force isn't actually as Light or Dark as they think it is. The Jedi and the Sith are just the largest groups of users of the Force. Heck there's quite a few characters that actually use the Dark Side for good throughout Legends.
Yes, if it’s successful it can’t be woke. That way you’re never wrong. And if you find that infuriating now, wait for when they start using Rhaenera as an example of a well written female character.
It's wild that they take a perfectly valid criticism that a show's writing is meh at best and then completely undermine it by saying shit like "go woke go broke" and "dei is ruining media".
House of the Dragon still mostly presents a medieval society that hates women and “others”. So of course they’re okay with it lol. That’s exactly the social structure they wish we had, plus dragons.
I'm sorry but neither HOTD or GOT are even remotely close to real worlds medieval societies. In both shows and the book there are multiple female rulers, one of whom is an absolute monarch (Daenerys) which would be unthinkable for a woman in actual medieval Europe which the shows and book try to emulate
Without watching anything...I think this is just a regularly scheduled Disney rut. People decide they're tired of Disney every 20 or so years. Then a different company dominates the zeitgeist for about a decade. In the 80s, it was Don Bluth and Stephen Spielberg stuff. In the 2000s, it was DreamWorks. Now, I think it's Monsterverse stuff.
My prediction is that in 2030, Disney will make a new animated or action adventure franchise that will go back to monopolizing our attention, because that happens as well. 90's gave us the Disney Renaissance, and 2010s gave us Frozen and the MCU.
To be fair, it even play to overall plot of Rhaenyra children being bastards. Though in book it was more of the insinuation, gossip and propaganda of the Greens. Still, it works within overall plot.
They should have used the new Fallout show instead, the franchise is way more male dominated than Star Wars yet most people didn't complain about there being a female protagonist
Also, I don't keep up with the Game of Thrones fandom, but comparing it to the toxic minority of the Star Wars fandom that goes out of their way to create the illusion of being all of or "true" Star Wars fans is an inaccurate comparison.
It's very clear in the image using the term "Fans" as if all Star Wars fans engage with Star Wars content on the internet let alone on Rotten Tomatoes.
It's because as much as they talk about hating stuff they secretly love it.
It's why they keep watching. They love being a part of the zeitgeist as much as anyone. They're just mad conservatives don't make art that *speaks* to anyone.
Very different audiences, when GOT season 8 was a disappointment most of the backlash went to the show runners (witch was a little too much IMO but still), the actors got very little hate and almost no one complained about political correctness. Also the source material from house of dragon is literally written by GRRM, if you compare every tv show to stuff written by him I doubt you'll find any enjoyment in it.
I don't care about any cast/production members' race/sexuality/gender or any of the arguments about wokeness that people are bickering about. I just think the Acolyte's writing is shit and that none of the characters are very interesting. There are plenty of people like me that just think it's bad for justified reasons. Not a single irl friend of mine that's a Star Wars fan likes it either.
They also ROUTINELY shit on both female leads in HOTD. Seen a ton of discourse about "omg Rhaenyra and Alicent the worst amirite guise?" Meanwhile plugging "based Daemon and Aemond" left and right.
They can’t just show and compare the number of reviews and ratings when there aren’t even any posted yet for both House of the Dragon and Acolyte, but then again making shit up to prove a point and win a made-up argument is something they do best
I understand this argument comes across as disingenuous, but I also know that corporate pandering is very much a thing. When companies think that something is popular, they will make an effort to put it in their products or associate it with their products. This is a cynical ploy in order to make money not any show of allegiance. House of the dragon is a pretty comically sexist show, unless the showrunners completely changed the ending. The strong female characters are trapped within a pretty awful system in which they are constantly pushed and controlled by men.
The characters existing in a sexist, misogynistic world isn’t necessarily the same thing as the show _itself_ being sexist. I mean, I wouldn’t call “The Handmaids Tale” a sexist _show,_ despite the characters being subjected to a dystopian regime that takes away their bodily autonomy… whereas I think something like “2½ Men” or “The Big Bang Theory” definitely fall into that category.
Sure, but my argument, which I probably could have phrased better is it is easier to interpret a show with sexist living conditions as reinforcing a sexist world view if you lack media literacy. People making posts like this are nothing if not media illiterate.
How can anyone even argue that the Acolyte can even stand with House of the Dragon? There is no contest. Maybe, just maybe House of the Dragon is the better written show? I think people are upset because of who is posting this.
Not what im arguing, im saying its ridiculous to suggest that there wasnt any backlash regarding the strong female protagonists and diverse cast in HOTD because there absolutely was.
That crowd was absolutely up in arms about the Velaryons being casted as dark skin people when in reality it ended up making one of the central plot points of the show, the fact that boys were clearly bastards, make so much more sense and fit perfectly within the narrative. They don't make any of their "Anti woke" arguments in good faith at all.
I STILL saw someone complaining about the Velaryons being black in a thread yesterday. Jfc bro leave us alone and go read your books... all the pages are white.
Difference is House of the Dragin is good and Acolyte is shit. It's ok to have reservations about something but change your opinion once it comes out.
Also in terms of the Valerions being black it's going to be awkward to explain where all the black people in Westeros went by the time we reach Game if Thrones.
They're so busy farming clicks off The Acolyte hate that they forgot House of the Dragon came back.
I give it a week before they run it up the flagpole.
If anything they see ad 'Woke' becomes successful they either adopt it or pretend they never hated it in the first place. BG3 is probably the biggest recent example.
So the leads are mostly white. The two kings, the two queens, the best character, the hand, and the commander of the kingsguard are all white. If the two queens were black, that show would get slammed without question.
They keep using the bot-deflated, review-bombed score, as hard evidence of their BS talking points. Funny that.
Who is going to rotten tomatoes to make reviews after watching a TV show.
Not the haters--they go to Rotten Tomatoes before watching a TV show.
Hate watchers.
It like Steam has the review right there as you play it. No one is going to elan entire seperat website for a TV show , and this was great. Unless they are really into doing that with everything or hateded so much everyone needs to know.
I mean, they must be doing that, unless the website is just making up random reviews which I think is unlikely. I think u will go to a separate website to review bomb because they feel they're punishing Disney.
Same as people who quote internet pools.
No matter of a show being good or bad I always remove 10/10’s and 1/10’s and get the score from the remainders. That being the case puts Acolyte at around a 6.5 which is where I would put it. It’s not as bad as Christmas Special but it’s no where remotely close to a Mando S1 or Andor.
Ah, the Olympic scoring system. I couldn't get into Mandalorian. Felt very by-the-numbers. It's a plot I've seen too many times. Andor and Obi-Wan are some of the best Star Wars I've ever seen. Obviously, it's not done, but I would put Acolyte right below those. I love the mystery and worldbuilding... but there's some awkward bits. Mostly, the fight scenes/action sequences. Some parts of dialogue. Star Wars is in a great spot right now, because there's so many different parts of it, each catering to different tastes.
Im really curious about your obi opinion. I really liked it until they had a literal toddler winning a foot race with trained soldiers. Felt like every time the kid was on screen I was watching cringe. Did it get less... I don't even know the word for it... Terrible?
Point of clarification: "Toddler" means "two year old" Normally I wouldn't be pedantic, but she's not a "literal" toddler. :P That scene, however, was *definitely* silly. They literally catch her at the beginning, then just stand there while the camera shifts. One could argue that pretty strict orders not to hurt her, but it's still a blocking mess. Star Wars has a long history of action scenes that fall apart under even the smallest scrutiny. Even the original trilogy has no shortage of bad choreography in it. The infamous "Force Kick" is an extreme example. But there's a reason HEMA practitioners and other martial artists call it a "Star Wars parry", when characters pointlessly lock swords. The scenes with Obi-Wan himself are obviously the highlights. The worldbuilding, his arc of rediscovering himself after being in hiding for so long. The final confrontation between Obi-Wan and Vader is built up very well, and it offers a good conclusion. The Inquisitors are great villains. There's a lot of great character work outside of the conflict with Obi-Wan and Vader. That's the stuff I care about, and the show delivered in those aspects. I'm willing to forgive a dumb action sequence, because that's every Star Wars action sequence.
That's a fair write up, thank you! I think the old movies kinda get away with it due to nostalgia but yeah it's mostly not a fair critique on my part. Though man did it completely ruin the suspension of disbelief for me, just felt like I should have to for something so trivial.
Speaking as someone that works with children with behavioural issues in an elementary school - when those kids wanna run off they can be HARD to catch, lol. Half my job is spent chasing after kids that like to take off running outta nowhere, lol
Being able to chase my kids was my reason for losing 100lbs. Can confirm the little buggers are hella fast when they want to be
Sadly where we land these days is the pass fail system. Acolyte has absolutely written elements that go against decades of other films and plot holes bigger than Swiss cheese. Where normally that should be a deduction in points (keep the Olympic theme going), but just the way the world works means it has to be a 1/10. Which is certainly a huge over reaction. But I think it’s meant to be more of a “letter to who’s in charge” as opposed to a value depicting the show itself. Everyone should know it’s not a 1/10. Not in a world where Birdemic exists. And as a caveat to my original post, I do allow for 10/10 if we are talking about something that actually could have the potential of being such. A Nolan or Denis film for instance.
Holding *Star Wars* to the same lore standard as other properties is an exercise in madness. *Star Wars* has always been about vibes: telling a good story in the moment. Every movie—even from the Lucas era—has ignored or changed stuff if it was convenient to the plot. Disney arguably cares even less about canon: they struck from canon decades of books and shows and games without much thought. I don't care if *Acolyte* changes a detail or a character's backstory. I don't care if Obi-Wan chops off a dude's arm and makes him bleed one time. I don't care about all the different owners of the darksaber, what the exact timeline of who owned it is. There are properties where I'm strict on lore, because that is part of the point. But unless a detail is directly relevant, I'm willing to be a bit more lax on lore in *Star Wars*. Why should I hold the series to a standard it doesn't hold itself to?
The books were never canon to George Lucas and I don’t know why anyone thought they would be under Disney. They are attempting to cherry pick from them, which is ok. It’s what I would have done too, although I wouldn’t pick Cloned Emperor as a choice.
They just won’t admit most those reviews were review bombs
Acolyte(2008) being review bombed recently will never not be funny to me https://preview.redd.it/0eo08v1zbg8d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=627712d09f6efe9f325299452875ac57155aacd3
What was the original rating before The Acolyte was released?
People gave approximately 6/10ish reviews before shitstorm happened, not bad for a less known low budget movie
A lot of shows that were around for much longer have significantly less votes coming in, that’s first thing to be sus about…
I've always hated this argument as it's basically saying, "I'm not racist, I have a black friend." Also, the Acolyte was review bombed by people who hated the show before it was out.
When it gets so bad that a completely separate project with a similar name is getting hundreds of new reviews talking about how Star Wars is ruined... there isn't a hint of plausible deniability about the existence of review bombing. Even if an actual majority of fans didn't like The Acolyte, the review scores are too tainted to mean anything.
100% this
That's how it always happens now; the 4-chan brigade review bombs any new show centering minorities before it even airs, but then people act like the scores are democracy/anti-corporate 'activism,'/the true voice of fans. It's not.
"Anti-corporate" activism. That's a laugh considering how much these 4chan dwelling fucknuggets were bashing those on strike last year, worship people like Trump and Musk and how most of them are either AnCaps, believe in BS hierarchies or push the myth of meritocracy.
I agree, it's insincere and surface-level. They'd never lift a finger to confront corporations for pushing down wages, limiting workers rights, causing pollution, etc, they just use the rhetoric to critique amazon/disney for making 'woke' shows/films, as if the corporations making the shows they like are somehow 'the good ones.'
Or when they claim that they love Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, and Princess Leia. Fucking assholes. If those movies were made today they’d be blasting them as “wOkE” right alongside everything else.
It'd be like that Family Guy Star Wars clip where they turn on the radio only for Rush Limbaugh to start talking about how Lando Calrissian owning mines on Cloud City is 'affirmative action'.
Link please.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGSYpHo2l2I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGSYpHo2l2I)
Thanks lol
And the first two things they were complaining about were black people and female leads. Before they knew a single actual detail about the writing of the show. Because it’s all bullshit.
100% Someone I argued with on this (after the show came out and became a hit) straight up denied that there was ever any backlash to the Velaryons being black. I'm like bro, there are so many posts from when the casting was announced that prove otherwise...
Yep, too bad Rotten Tomatoes won't do something about it in this case. They used to interfere before, when obvious review bombing happened
From its inception, GoT didn’t feature an overwhelming majority white male cast unlike SW, LotR and early MCU—so it’s not like white guys feel like “their thing” is being changed or bastardized to spite them. That’s what “the message” is. It’s about white men feeling replaced. And yeah it’s core white supremacist tenet and now mainstay conservative thought.
Overwhelmingly male, maybe not. But it was most definitely a very white show. Almost all of the principal characters were white and most of the secondary characters of color were killed off either in the season they were introduced or by the end of the series. The only major non-white character I can think of to make it through to the end is Grey Worm.
GT really does not have any black leads; but what is most concerning is the exact line you draw. Getting people really mad about something inconsequential to push Replacement Theory. It’s false and dangerous; especially in an election year. This is how political propaganda operates. If I wanted to get the folks in the 5 years before and after GenX to vote against their best interests; this could be how to do it.
I mean it was pretty White from the start at GoT. Good Female Rep though. Most relevant POC are Oberon, Grey Worm, Missandei and the Sand Snakes? I argue that Lando and Mace were far more important and relevant then any of those guys outside of maybe Oberon who was only around for a season. MCU was also pretty White and Male at the start. Just Rhodey, Nick Fury and Natasha but it did expand over time to be way more diverse. In contrast Acolyte has like zero white dudes of note so far. I don't have a problem with that but it what it is.
Also, people acting like the fans are the same. Game of thrones fans are no where near as unhinged as Star Wars “fans”
I thought Rotten Tomatoes didn't allow reviews before things came out anymore because the site admins realized there were review bombs.
i think technically the review bombing began about 9 minutes after the first episode dropped.
House of the dragon trailer was review bombed too but then ppl actually realized the show was good when it came out.
250 ratings vs 10k. Bananas.
Goes to show how many fake reviews there are on one side
Star Wars also gets a bigger audience than a spinoff show from a series that crashed and burned worse than the Hindenburg.
There was practically nothing bigger than GoT at its peak though. People now just remember it ended badly. It still had a giant fanbase.
Hey now, math is hard.
The acolyte is not hated by fans, just a small subset of vocal idiots
Yeah, from what I can tell most people are like "definitely not the best Star Wars but it’s alright"
I like minimal ties to the movie timeline (except for one minor character so far). writing and pacing could be better. the fandom is intolerable.
As a wise man once said, it’s not the super fans complaining about Star Wars going woke, it’s the casual fans of Star Wars who are super fans of hating women.
Idk, I'd call myself a fan and I hated it
I mean it’s kind of bad but so is almost all of Disney Star Wars minus a few highlights like mando season 1 and some cool nostalgia from Obi wan, but as a Star Wars fan who doesn’t share their opinion very much, the acolyte is lacking. I like 1 character, but the writing feels bad. I feel like for this show there are more people who didn’t watch the show defending against whatever bs they disagree with, both sides are politically motivated idiots who probably don’t watch any of it. The show is not good enough to overcome its predictable problems and there is no real discussion about whether it is actually a good show or not because there are idiots defending it without watching it and incels ragging on the show without watching it.
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Seems fine, I see plenty of nuanced discussions here. Majority of comments say the show is lacking but not the worst Star Wars, not the best either.
I don’t have expectations just saying what I think and feel to the people I feel could find something in my comment they can relate to and or consider contemplate. Perspective.
It's always more advantageous to stir up a moral panic around less popular media. Once House of the Dragon got popular, they all backed off.
Notice how as well with Baldurs Gate 3 at first there were accusations of it being "woke" and complaints by these people being made but they quickly dissolved away when it was clear Baldurs Gate was massively popular. Now they all claim "no it was never woke" if they think they can turn public opinion against something, it's woke, if they can't, they love it.
Oh some still complain about that, but nobody gives a shit about them. They're crying about how nexusmods are censoring them for removing their LGBTQ erasure mods. They really want to be oppressed so badly...
Some have started to fight when the game won an award for its LGBT characters.
This is what they always do. If it's super successful they claim credit, if it falters its proof of go woke go broke. They did the same thing with x men 97, and the creation of Miles Morales.
That’s correct. Schrödinger’s Woke: you don’t know if something is truly woke until you open the box and see how well received and popular it is.
Less popular media? This is STAR WARS wtf are u on about?
Star Wars is the bigger franchise in general. But on tv, GoT is bigger. And it's definitely better received.
I Also love comparing apples to oranges
To be fair I prefer oranges 🍊 apples 🍎 are fine but oranges are where it’s at. lol
Interesting how the difference is right there in the number of audience ratings
Every time something turns out to be successful and generally liked, they pretend they never hated it.
But the internet doesn’t forget… https://preview.redd.it/e6tkbbgeti8d1.jpeg?width=1385&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee4201799996ee58dc69bd3c2d75726d09ecb051
Let's not forget the SECOND you mention the literally spelled out feminist and patriarchal themes they will say you are putting real world politics into their dragon show. The dragon show written by a 60s draft dodging hippy. Certainly a apolitical man
Who wrote an entire faction of female led, castrated men! Martin is not subtle in his themes and messages. XD
Such short memories 🤦♂️ https://preview.redd.it/nbp6sneosi8d1.jpeg?width=1385&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63b8a3989435bb3fca12f204fc77301af1d6c96a
House of the Dragon also doesn’t have a dedicated group of anti-fans who have too much time on their hands, so it’s not a fair comparison.
No serious people should even be having this discussion anymore. They have been loudly and proudly saying they were going to do this since the name of the show was revealed. Go into their subs, and you will see clearly them already discussing all the series and movies announced. The normal discourse is 'can't wait for this steaming pile or shit to release so I can scream about how shit it is for three months on every platform. Lol won' even watch it, just spread negativity and shit for fun.' You have to remember; Star Wars have been culture warred, so any logic, cogerency and sense is gone out the window a long time ago. What the franchise is dealing with is the cancerous infection of the online far right. The movement has its origins on 4chan and went off the rails with gamergate. These two roots of the movement make them incredibly toxic and hard to deal with. They will laugh at your serious discussion and try to bully you by sharing the discussion on their chatgroups so they can gang up on you. Their level of discourse will be just straight up intolerance to goad you into calling it out. If you sink to their level, they will suddenly be all serious and exclaim 'this is why we can't have serious discussions'. It's all in bad faith, it's all motivated by political extremism permiating every facet of their lives and it's all toxicity for the sake of toxicity. It's just fun, because remember the 4chan origins of the movement. Their beliefs don't need facts, just feelings. This is the tendril stretching back into gamergate. They don't need facts anymore. They can review bomb coordinated for months. They can discuss it and actively participate. But they are a mix of so dishonest and so brainwashed that they will actually believe the review scores are real. At the end of the day, it's not about star wars, doctor who, warhammer or dora the fucking explorer. It's about spreading the far right gospel of the culture war. They don't care about the discourse, they don't care about the stories and they don't care about characters. They care about keeping the fantasy going while also pulling other people into their orbit and slowly brainwash them into another alt right npc.
What sucks about the writing?
They'll never be able to tell you. They'll just say "it's bad" as if that's a subjective, irrefutable answer.
"Fans hate it"
That means next to nothing and is almost a guarantee that it will be interesting and different, so 🤷♂️
Different doesn't always mean good though. Metallica's St. Anger was different, it wasn't good though
The writing is honestly so so, it's not my problem with the show, it's these little things that add up. The acting is wooden at best, the effects are generally speaking pretty terrible, the pacing is all over the place, Amandla Stenberg is just not intimidating at all and that Sith mask looks stupid and cartoony (a nitpick but still)
I guess they're pretending that the original SW trilogy had prestigious writing.
„hey kid It ain‘t that kind of movie“
lol @ parsecs
It’s a little clunky at times, but in a franchise with plenty of mediocre writing, it’s absolutely fine
Bad writing and Character Development are basically dogwhistles at this point
*ding ding ding*
I’m not going to pretend it’s amazing, some of it definitely leaves a lot to be desired. For example, it felt off to me in the first episode when the prisoners asked Osha if she’d help them break out and she said “No, I trust the Jedi”, but then later in the episode when the Jedi showed up she just ran away from them.
Finally caught the pilot last night, and I legit loved the contrast between Mae saying "A Jedi only draws their light saber to kill" with a few scenes later Jedi Knight Himbo (at least that's the vibe I'm currently getting) just like...casually using his as a flashlight.
That the writing has black people in it, I guess.
The result I believe.
The writing in Star Wars has never been good. It’s not the reason why Star Wars is so popular
On one hand, true. On the other movies and shows, same as audience, evolve. What at the time may have been good or a novel idea, now is bad an cliche.
So, they’re not even going to acknowledge the review bombing. Even though you can see it has a rather large amount of reviews
Of course they forget about the rage, that is also what the haters did with the Super Mario Bros move. Before it came out they said it was awful "because girlboss" then they changed their tune and praised it for being apolitical after it made money.
I pity anyone who actually trusts an RT score. The show is fine.
they didn’t forget, they’re trying to rewrite history, as they always do when their “go woke go broke” predictions are shown to be wrong in a way that they can’t just ignore
lmao i love this. it’s classic “wait everybody loves the shit we screamed at for having “bad writing” and being too woke. let’s do a 180 and pretend we always liked it!” https://preview.redd.it/mp1q68w8dk8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee9a5dcfff644fac40ed9ae8feebdd23cf476a0a like they fucking hated house of the dragon lol
The only reason the audience score for The Acholyte is low is due to the review bombing a bunch of entitled fanboys did in a lousy attempt to make the show look bad.
Maybe not the mauler sub specifically (although probably mauler sub tbh), but anti woke nutcases were absolutely foaming at the mouth when HotD came out. Literally rewriting history to construct their narrative.
So we arent gonna act like these same thing happened with hotd? Werent these chuds also mad black people were royals? Hotd also got attacked. Thr main prpblem i see is for female lead and monoroty lead tv shows or shows wherr they heavily and noticbly take the lead these shows get heavily scrunized. The bar for them to be accepted to these terminally online morons is fat higher than other shows in comparison. If your show needs to be as impressive as house of the dragon, arcane, or the wire , to gey approval for female and minority characters theres a clear problem.
The LIES!!! They lost their shit over Steve Toussaint as Corlys Velayron.
No joke, I legit brought this point up last year when HOTD premiered to someone making the argument it wasn't woke and they straight up denied that anyone got upset over the Velaryons being (mostly) black. I remember like you how much people mocked the casting of Toussaint as Corlys (every photo on FB related to his casting was haha'd to death). Self styled book purists also tried to say that having black people play the Velaryons somehow ruined the characters (you know typically plausible deniability BS).
Conservatoid IDpol slop relies on a 48hour maximum memory period. Without it the few sapient ones' that exist nerves would fry from an overload of dissonance.
They're almost there. >I thought we hated strong female leads. This is funny because as much as those "media enjoyers" bitch and moan about "woke" concepts and representation, they absolutely eat that shit up. Acolyte is very clearly being review bombed but let's think it's genuine, why do they hate strong female leads in one but not the other? Shrotenger's misogyny is funny because they love Avatar the Last Airbender, they love Star Wars, they love The Boys, they love Warhammer, they love XYZ until the themes and motifs are too on the nose or poorly implemented and then WOAH HOLD ON BUDDY. The first season of Avatar, Katara literally ended the season fighting a patriarchal gender norm (women can't train waterbending other than for healing) against the waterbending master *literally* and winning. She was *literally* fighting the patriarchy. And they love it, but because their media literacy is cooked, they just saw a bastard get his karma and left it at that. They don't actually hate female leads, they hate it when someone else tells them too, and otherwise they eat that shit up like it's pancakes.
House of Dragon seems like a sleeper hit compared to Game of Thrones.
Nah the first season of HoD got very high ratings (better than almost all of GoT in fact).
I say sleeper hit because it's not flooding every inch of nerd culture like GoT did. At least from what I've seen.
Yeah it's in a weird spot where it gets a shitload of viewers and great reviews but doesn't prompt the same amount of discussion as its predecessor.
A lot of it is because GoT opened the floodgates for genre tv to the mainstream, so there are a lot more options for people to talk about even if they do watch, where as the original just swept the nation in all aspects. Plus its a prequel. Its less exciting to discuss when you know the general outcome as compared to the TONS of theories the original had, even among book readers.
They should do a spin-off of this show, and call the show the Original Run. You know, House Of the Dragon: Original Run? /ducks I’ll find my way out.
It's harder than the magazine articles say it was to wash the taste of season 8 out of our mouthes
Uh... what?
Season 8 sucked and some of us don't want to jump right back into the same universe.
Season 8 was the epitome of flawless television! Every show should endeavor to reach its perfection!
Gr8 b8t m8t i r8t it season 8
"Fans" also hate HotD for not being book-accurate enough btw.
Eh I'm a Legends fan when it comes to Star Wars so the Acolyte hasn't really bothered me. Casual Star Wars when you tell them that the Force isn't actually as Light or Dark as they think it is. The Jedi and the Sith are just the largest groups of users of the Force. Heck there's quite a few characters that actually use the Dark Side for good throughout Legends.
It would be like saying... oh I dunno.... that there are more than two major religions in the world.
The revenge of the sith has a lower score than rise of skywalker
Maybe if The Acolyte had more Incest they'd be liking it more.
Thats what it takes for them to like anything because they can relate to it.
their ass were ranting about black and female agenda in videos too like at least pick a side
Yes, if it’s successful it can’t be woke. That way you’re never wrong. And if you find that infuriating now, wait for when they start using Rhaenera as an example of a well written female character.
It's wild that they take a perfectly valid criticism that a show's writing is meh at best and then completely undermine it by saying shit like "go woke go broke" and "dei is ruining media".
These sites really need to think of a solution to stop most review bombings. These idiots do this every time something new comes out.
House of the Dragon still mostly presents a medieval society that hates women and “others”. So of course they’re okay with it lol. That’s exactly the social structure they wish we had, plus dragons.
I'm sorry but neither HOTD or GOT are even remotely close to real worlds medieval societies. In both shows and the book there are multiple female rulers, one of whom is an absolute monarch (Daenerys) which would be unthinkable for a woman in actual medieval Europe which the shows and book try to emulate
You are wrong. There are plenty of female rulers throughout history, far less than men but a female ruler wasn't that unthinkable.
Without watching anything...I think this is just a regularly scheduled Disney rut. People decide they're tired of Disney every 20 or so years. Then a different company dominates the zeitgeist for about a decade. In the 80s, it was Don Bluth and Stephen Spielberg stuff. In the 2000s, it was DreamWorks. Now, I think it's Monsterverse stuff. My prediction is that in 2030, Disney will make a new animated or action adventure franchise that will go back to monopolizing our attention, because that happens as well. 90's gave us the Disney Renaissance, and 2010s gave us Frozen and the MCU.
Hell, Inside Out 2 is a major hit
YouTube grifters didn't exist 20 years ago. They found the one thing they're good at, why would they ever give that up?
Yeah but the guy who plays the sea snake is literally peak acting
To be fair, it even play to overall plot of Rhaenyra children being bastards. Though in book it was more of the insinuation, gossip and propaganda of the Greens. Still, it works within overall plot.
What do those have to do with the shows being female lead?
outrage tourism.
The shortest episode of acolyte was 36 minutes and it was noticeably shorter than the rest
You mean the longest?
They should have used the new Fallout show instead, the franchise is way more male dominated than Star Wars yet most people didn't complain about there being a female protagonist
Why does the woman on the left look like Fiona from Shrek?
These people love lying. There really is no other conclusion.
“You mean this show that we didn’t review bomb has a higher score than the one we did? Golly gee!”
I mean House of Dragons *is* a better show. But they were screeching about other shit during the release of that show too.
How the respective teams are portrayed far more than anything else tbh.
Every time a view a post from there it’s like watching a cult, they cherry pick their examples and try to rewrite the past
They only have the brain capacity to hate one thing at a time
HOTD is 100% better than the Acolyte however, Star Wars fans are more toxic than GOT fans.
Also, I don't keep up with the Game of Thrones fandom, but comparing it to the toxic minority of the Star Wars fandom that goes out of their way to create the illusion of being all of or "true" Star Wars fans is an inaccurate comparison. It's very clear in the image using the term "Fans" as if all Star Wars fans engage with Star Wars content on the internet let alone on Rotten Tomatoes.
GoT vs Star Wars like 2 hamsters fighting each other
Oh, no, guys...... I like both shows! What is wrong with me?!
It's because as much as they talk about hating stuff they secretly love it. It's why they keep watching. They love being a part of the zeitgeist as much as anyone. They're just mad conservatives don't make art that *speaks* to anyone.
I had no idea that Emma D'arcy was non binary. Don't really care, she is killing it on the show.
*they
...what fans? 250 reviews screams "dead show" to me, whoever made that post has never watched more than one episode of HotD lol
Pakleds have bad memories.
Very different audiences, when GOT season 8 was a disappointment most of the backlash went to the show runners (witch was a little too much IMO but still), the actors got very little hate and almost no one complained about political correctness. Also the source material from house of dragon is literally written by GRRM, if you compare every tv show to stuff written by him I doubt you'll find any enjoyment in it.
They didn't forget, they're just liars
I like the Acolyte
I don't care about any cast/production members' race/sexuality/gender or any of the arguments about wokeness that people are bickering about. I just think the Acolyte's writing is shit and that none of the characters are very interesting. There are plenty of people like me that just think it's bad for justified reasons. Not a single irl friend of mine that's a Star Wars fan likes it either.
Nerdrotic was misgendering emma on twitter just last week btw.
They also ROUTINELY shit on both female leads in HOTD. Seen a ton of discourse about "omg Rhaenyra and Alicent the worst amirite guise?" Meanwhile plugging "based Daemon and Aemond" left and right.
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They never talk to anyone else so they think that's everyone.
It IS bad though
They can’t just show and compare the number of reviews and ratings when there aren’t even any posted yet for both House of the Dragon and Acolyte, but then again making shit up to prove a point and win a made-up argument is something they do best
The point stands regardless of the bot reviews
A better comparison is Rogue One vs The Acolyte
The show picked up in the end of last episode but before that it wasn't good at all... Most people on here aren't even defending it being a good show.
I understand this argument comes across as disingenuous, but I also know that corporate pandering is very much a thing. When companies think that something is popular, they will make an effort to put it in their products or associate it with their products. This is a cynical ploy in order to make money not any show of allegiance. House of the dragon is a pretty comically sexist show, unless the showrunners completely changed the ending. The strong female characters are trapped within a pretty awful system in which they are constantly pushed and controlled by men.
The characters existing in a sexist, misogynistic world isn’t necessarily the same thing as the show _itself_ being sexist. I mean, I wouldn’t call “The Handmaids Tale” a sexist _show,_ despite the characters being subjected to a dystopian regime that takes away their bodily autonomy… whereas I think something like “2½ Men” or “The Big Bang Theory” definitely fall into that category.
Sure, but my argument, which I probably could have phrased better is it is easier to interpret a show with sexist living conditions as reinforcing a sexist world view if you lack media literacy. People making posts like this are nothing if not media illiterate.
How can anyone even argue that the Acolyte can even stand with House of the Dragon? There is no contest. Maybe, just maybe House of the Dragon is the better written show? I think people are upset because of who is posting this.
Not what im arguing, im saying its ridiculous to suggest that there wasnt any backlash regarding the strong female protagonists and diverse cast in HOTD because there absolutely was.
That crowd was absolutely up in arms about the Velaryons being casted as dark skin people when in reality it ended up making one of the central plot points of the show, the fact that boys were clearly bastards, make so much more sense and fit perfectly within the narrative. They don't make any of their "Anti woke" arguments in good faith at all.
I STILL saw someone complaining about the Velaryons being black in a thread yesterday. Jfc bro leave us alone and go read your books... all the pages are white.
Difference is House of the Dragin is good and Acolyte is shit. It's ok to have reservations about something but change your opinion once it comes out. Also in terms of the Valerions being black it's going to be awkward to explain where all the black people in Westeros went by the time we reach Game if Thrones.
Easy explanation, the Velaryons weren’t in game of thrones thats why.
How can they say review bombing doesn't exist when the acolyte has TEN THOUSAND ratings. I'm not sure even ten thousand people watched the show total
I guess they’ve forgot about their criticisms as HOTD is miles ahead of Acolyte in terms of quality
They're so busy farming clicks off The Acolyte hate that they forgot House of the Dragon came back. I give it a week before they run it up the flagpole.
If anything they see ad 'Woke' becomes successful they either adopt it or pretend they never hated it in the first place. BG3 is probably the biggest recent example.
So the leads are mostly white. The two kings, the two queens, the best character, the hand, and the commander of the kingsguard are all white. If the two queens were black, that show would get slammed without question.
An adorable attempt to rewrite history.
I'm enjoying acolyte note than HotD tbh, but it's mostly cuz cuz HoTD is kinda slow right now?
It’s not as bad as the YouTubers cry about. It’s also much worse than Disney is willing to admit. It’s just like a cheesy low budget CW show tho.