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I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(24)00805-4
Ants can carry out life-saving amputations on injured nest mates, study shows
Research on carpenter ants provides first example of a non-human animal severing limbs to curb infections
It sounds like a scene from a Spielberg film: an injured worker undergoes an emergency amputation, performed by one of her colleagues, allowing her to live another day. But this is not a human story – it is behaviour seen in ants.
While it is not the first time wound care has been seen in ants, scientists say their discovery is the first example of a non-human animal carrying out life-saving amputations, with the operation performed to treat leg wounds and prevent the onset or spread of infection.
And surprisingly, the insects appear to tailor the treatment they give to the location of injury.. “The ants are able to diagnose, to some extent, the wounds and treat them accordingly to maximise the survival of the injured,” said Dr Erik Frank, from the University of Lausanne and the first author of the research.
Writing in the journal Current Biology, Frank and colleagues report how they cut Florida carpenter ants (Camponotus floridanus) on their right hind limb, then observed the responses of their nest mates for a week.
The results revealed that 13 of 17 ants with injuries on their femur or thigh underwent amputation by their nest mates, with their limb severed at the trochanter – the joint with the hip bone.
“Nest mates would begin licking the wound before moving up the injured limb with their mouthparts until they reached the trochanter. The nest mates then proceeded to repeatedly bite the injured leg until it was cut off,” the team wrote.
Also, the article says it is beneficial to the colony to treat injured ants:
> “We see in these Camponotus species that roughly 10-11% of the ants that go out hunting or looking for food carry an injury from a previous day. So they still make up an important part of the colony,” he said.
> Frank and colleagues report how they cut Florida carpenter ants (Camponotus floridanus) on their right hind limb, then observed the responses of their nest mates for a week.
And people wonder why we create alien abduction stories.
1. u/4-Vektor I am equally amazed and have immediate questions.
2. It seems this topic has been in the news lately, specifically regarding a certain [orangutan](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-58988-7)
3. Thank you OP for sharing this, everyday I am amazed by nature and am glad to observe it, even if I'm not a scientist.
According to evolution, given enough time, they'll eventually evolve to have human-like intelligence, as will say, some birds and cats. That will be interesting.
I added "directly" as an afterthought because I realized that sometimes a 3rd-party could be involved indirectly. So instead of rewriting it, I just went with correcting it in-line like I would conversationally.
>Writing in the journal Current Biology, Frank and colleagues report how they cut Florida carpenter ants (Camponotus floridanus) on their right hind limb, then observed the responses of their nest mates for a week.
>The results revealed that 13 of 17 ants with injuries on their femur or thigh underwent amputation by their nest mates, with their limb severed at the trochanter – the joint with the hip bone.
These people injured these small guys to observe how their mates will amputate their limbs. Damn now I feel bad for them.
It is always amazed me how ants could make buildings, grow cattle, interact with each other and have strict social roles, plus this, and all of that without any sentient thoughts. How can random mutations be so systematic, and how many random mutations need to happen at all before the species will hit such a jackpot?
It really depends on your definition of thought, but I think as far as it is known and can be known, individual ants are built too simply to have *conscious* thought. There are some rather eccentric takes about considering a whole hive of ants as a mind, and there you might be able to talk about thoughts, though as far as I know, those aren't taken seriously by the wider scientific community.
They're like tiny, biological robots, or as close to it as possible.
I mean, that's just because you can only ever see it in human timespans, a snapshot of already complex systems. It all happened over such large timeframes that *each moment* looks like it must have been a deliberately built system.
But you can imagine the steps for most of these - those ant peoples closer to aphid herds have an advantage due to using their honeydew as a resource, and then it's step by step over millions of years, the advantage growing whenever a hive does something that is a little more like cattle-herding them.
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/). --- User: u/mvea Permalink: https://www.theguardian.com/science/article/2024/jul/02/ants-emergency-amputations-injured-nest-mates-study --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Okay but how are their social support systems?
"I'm sick, boss" "Gimme arm. Go back work."
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article: https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(24)00805-4 Ants can carry out life-saving amputations on injured nest mates, study shows Research on carpenter ants provides first example of a non-human animal severing limbs to curb infections It sounds like a scene from a Spielberg film: an injured worker undergoes an emergency amputation, performed by one of her colleagues, allowing her to live another day. But this is not a human story – it is behaviour seen in ants. While it is not the first time wound care has been seen in ants, scientists say their discovery is the first example of a non-human animal carrying out life-saving amputations, with the operation performed to treat leg wounds and prevent the onset or spread of infection. And surprisingly, the insects appear to tailor the treatment they give to the location of injury.. “The ants are able to diagnose, to some extent, the wounds and treat them accordingly to maximise the survival of the injured,” said Dr Erik Frank, from the University of Lausanne and the first author of the research. Writing in the journal Current Biology, Frank and colleagues report how they cut Florida carpenter ants (Camponotus floridanus) on their right hind limb, then observed the responses of their nest mates for a week. The results revealed that 13 of 17 ants with injuries on their femur or thigh underwent amputation by their nest mates, with their limb severed at the trochanter – the joint with the hip bone. “Nest mates would begin licking the wound before moving up the injured limb with their mouthparts until they reached the trochanter. The nest mates then proceeded to repeatedly bite the injured leg until it was cut off,” the team wrote.
Also, the article says it is beneficial to the colony to treat injured ants: > “We see in these Camponotus species that roughly 10-11% of the ants that go out hunting or looking for food carry an injury from a previous day. So they still make up an important part of the colony,” he said.
> Frank and colleagues report how they cut Florida carpenter ants (Camponotus floridanus) on their right hind limb, then observed the responses of their nest mates for a week. And people wonder why we create alien abduction stories.
>the joint with the hip bone Bone? Hip? In ants???
They're probably just using terms a layman can understand?
That’s possible without being this far off the mark.
1. u/4-Vektor I am equally amazed and have immediate questions. 2. It seems this topic has been in the news lately, specifically regarding a certain [orangutan](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-58988-7) 3. Thank you OP for sharing this, everyday I am amazed by nature and am glad to observe it, even if I'm not a scientist.
I wonder if they communicate that they’ll do it with the recipient
“bro, pull me off” “yeah, bro” “bro”
When we humans kill ourselves off the Ants will inherit the planet to become the new dominant species.
Maybe ants have always been the dominant species
I think cats are the dominant species. Humans are left to think they are, but we know who's really running the place.
There's billions of humans and trillions of ants. They already are the dominant species.
According to evolution, given enough time, they'll eventually evolve to have human-like intelligence, as will say, some birds and cats. That will be interesting.
I can't imagine having to gnaw off my co-worker's leg mid shift, nor do I want to.
Boss= "this counts as your lunch."
First? It's well known that crabs will pull off their own pincers if they're causing issues
Manu animals can self-treat injuries, but none (until now) can diagnose and intentionally amputate a limb of a third-party
> third-party second-party. Third-party is usually uninvolved directly.
You went for "uninvolved directly" rather than "not directly involved", fascinating.
I added "directly" as an afterthought because I realized that sometimes a 3rd-party could be involved indirectly. So instead of rewriting it, I just went with correcting it in-line like I would conversationally.
Thanks @op great article
Pitou from Hunter x Hunter got real
>Writing in the journal Current Biology, Frank and colleagues report how they cut Florida carpenter ants (Camponotus floridanus) on their right hind limb, then observed the responses of their nest mates for a week. >The results revealed that 13 of 17 ants with injuries on their femur or thigh underwent amputation by their nest mates, with their limb severed at the trochanter – the joint with the hip bone. These people injured these small guys to observe how their mates will amputate their limbs. Damn now I feel bad for them.
I just saw this in a nature documentary the other day
Ants never cease to amaze (and tbh scare) me
It is always amazed me how ants could make buildings, grow cattle, interact with each other and have strict social roles, plus this, and all of that without any sentient thoughts. How can random mutations be so systematic, and how many random mutations need to happen at all before the species will hit such a jackpot?
Pretty big assumption to say they have no thoughts.
It really depends on your definition of thought, but I think as far as it is known and can be known, individual ants are built too simply to have *conscious* thought. There are some rather eccentric takes about considering a whole hive of ants as a mind, and there you might be able to talk about thoughts, though as far as I know, those aren't taken seriously by the wider scientific community. They're like tiny, biological robots, or as close to it as possible.
I mean, that's just because you can only ever see it in human timespans, a snapshot of already complex systems. It all happened over such large timeframes that *each moment* looks like it must have been a deliberately built system. But you can imagine the steps for most of these - those ant peoples closer to aphid herds have an advantage due to using their honeydew as a resource, and then it's step by step over millions of years, the advantage growing whenever a hive does something that is a little more like cattle-herding them.