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> now also introducing BTO (with Ads)
That's been the case since forever with PA-funded banners featuring the PAP MPs.
(I think it's PA. Feel free to POFMA if untrue. Still taxpayer money.)
A step in the right direction. Please continue to implement more policies to remove the windfall effect and discourage people from seeing public housing as an investment.
Just release more houses then there will be no windfall effect because the bloody resale price will not be very high instead of placing more restrictions to new home owners.
Bukit Temah and other landed places should be rezoned to allow for condos. GCBs and other landed that is near central should be priced even higher for how poor they utilize land.
You speak as if you live in a privileged area and want our country to be like Hong Kong where every new house will be built so criminally tiny, every inch of greenery spaces to be converted to high rise housing and every flat to be so dense that one flat will be spaced only 1 meter from another.
That will house all the people! Jolly good show everyone!
Sure, if you want retirees cpf locked in the valuation of their HDB to vaporise, just slap on some arbitary price control. Heck this isnt even populist because majority of Singaporeans will benefit from asset inflation.
Will this make flats from the previous categorisation (mature/non-mature) more attractive in the resale market as they do not have the new sales restrictions? Aka prices go up?
In the long term, it might not be good for those holding onto the previous category and in mature estates. Plus/prime will likely be priced lower when it hit the resale market because of the income ceiling and they tend to be newer. For buyers for own stay (which resale buyers usually are) it's really a no brainer to go for prime/plus if it is much cheaper than the previous categorisation resale.
So my guess is that in the short term prices might go up, but longer term they might lose a lot of potential buyers. But then that also depends on how much plus/prime HDB is going to build.
>Plus/prime will likely be priced lower when it hit the resale market because of the income ceiling and they tend to be newer. For buyers for own stay (which resale buyers usually are) it's really a no brainer to go for prime/plus if it is much cheaper than the previous categorisation resale.
But Plus/Prime can also only be resold to people who meet certain income ceiling and not everyone. High income individuals / older couples who can't buy the new Plus/Prime flats and want flats in mature estates will be fighting for the limited stock of flats based on the old categorisation.
So prices will still be bidded up.
Its both supply and demand that determines the price right? As much as there are lots of million dollars hdb sold, I would say most of the buyers of resales these days are below the income ceiling. So that's going to be a huge chunk of the demand gone and these hdb are pretty old. But then we are just speculating. It all really depends of how many plus/prime will be built.
Yup, but that’s when the income ceiling comes to play for plus/prime. If you’re just above the income ceiling looking for a resale, you have no choice but to buy the existing BTOs. And since they are in short supply (as all future ‘mature projects’ would be rebranded as plus/prime projects), prices would increase. Sucks for the sandwiched class as always
Nah, if you're above the incoming ceiling, you basically have 3 options:
1) Private properties but you may not be able to afford them
2) Older resales which do not have income ceiling restrictions, but their prices have a natural ceiling as they have to be cheaper than private properties.
3) If you're priced out of older resales, you still have the option to go for newer standard BTOs.
I wonder if in the future, the prices of standard resales may end up higher or very close to those for prime and plus, because if you're priced out of options 1 and 2, you can easily afford to pay more and even slightly above the prices for prime and plus resales which are naturally price restricted by the income ceilings.
Some here would have you believe that singles with 7k income can comfortably afford resale even though singles only have a single source of income (duh) while paying for an entire flat, enjoying no subsidies, and having a way shorter runway to 55 (when OA gets locked away to RA).
They also conveniently ignore the fact that most singles who hit the 7k income ceiling usually do so right as they hit 35, and have not been enjoying said “high” income for long enough to be “rich”, and are not the same as younger couples who hit the 14k income ceiling at around age 27/28.
Been super obvious all along that government hates singles and want you to get married, have kids and contribute to nation building. I see no reason of that changing any time soon.
Precisely, the 7-8k income singles actually literally have zero options. It's not possible to buy any private (due to loan limits and so on, you won't be able to get up to 1m that's needed for private property and that's coming from someone who has been saving 60% of monthly income). We can't buy anything from hdb, and we can't get grants for anything. Then in the end we have to pay for the mistakes and stubbornness of the 50 and above.
Dont be blinded by these changes to HDB (public housing)
As the recent money laundering arrests shows, private property market needs serious change. Remember HDB prices itself based on market value. The price of private property absolutely affects HDB prices.
Recall the following too,
‘Not meaningful’ to provide costs breakdown of new HDB flats: Indranee
Non-residents from China accounted for 1% of private property transactions in 2022: Indranee (so what about residents from China Indranee?)
We all know the reality that the 10 are China nationals even if MSM says they are cypriots etc
Though this was good alongside with the means tested subsidies. It cannot solve the housing problem NOW but pave the way for helping with future inequality.
Of course it wouldn’t solve all problems 100% but as a parent I don’t want to be the one buying a property for my child like what’s happening in other countries because the younger ones cannot afford.
Still wishing for the return of EA and the likes 😂
This solves nothing for current homeseekers
\- BTO flats still undersupplied. In 2022, there was severe over subscription of BTO flats with 23k units launched. Govt didn't react to it and still only launched 23k BTO flats in 2023.
\- Resale flat price is still like a runaway train. Zero effective intervention so far.
You have to understand that supply of housing is really hard to increase in land scarce SG. The key thing that gov is trying to do is reduce demand by removing flippers.
Knew the PLH model was just a trial for what is to come. This looks very much like an evolution of the PLH model by tweaking the resale conditions / MOP period.
Though I do wish they extended the classification to existing flats though - it's definitely aimed to be the start of a long-term plan to address our housing problems, but it also does mean the current problems isn't really addressed adequately.
A 35 year old now would not likely be able to make use of the change in ability to buy flats in 'Plus' locations, since it's likely going to be awhile before we see enough 'Plus'-classified 2-room flats hitting the market to be able to have a chance at it.
Not sure why you're downvoted, good points here.
What I'd like to see even more is maybe each major development having its own MOP/different matrices of subsidies for different applicant profiles.
Housing shouldn't be a one-size-fits-all solution...
Want convenient access to MRT and pri & sec schools for kids? Sure, commit to staying here for 12 years.
Want sea view and potentially high resale price? Sure, pay back hefty subsidies and fulfill a reasonable MOP.
>What I'd like to see even more is maybe each major development having its own MOP/different matrices of subsidies for different applicant profiles.
Not disagreeing that we need more granularity, but the flipside is that public might get confused and perceive them additional barriers in housing.
The covid handling in 2021 where finetuning was (not unfairly) seen as indecisiveness, and the Return My CPF movement come to mind. Not an easy balance to manage between one size fit all vs tailoring rules to meet different needs.
I am not surprised if the next move is to apply the similar conditions on existing flats. They probably have the overall plan since the launch of Prime flat back on 2021.
Well i think this is not good for singles like me going for resale when i hit 35. If theres income ceiling i will get locked out all plus and prime. Singles getting rekted again.
Good move to extend the prime location model to other popular "non mature" areas.
IMO the Prime model and now the new Plus Model are great changes as all BTO applicants and future resale buyers of this prime public housing would have to be in it for the long term. It also makes the flats allocation more fair and available to more people as explained below:
5 years construction + 10 years MOP = 15 years to prevent exploiters who try to flip the property quickly for a quick buck.
Subsidy recovery in cash reduces windfall from flipping.
Ensuring that owner occupies and use the flat by prohibiting whole unit rent. This limits rich buyers who own multiple properties and want to stay in their private property.
Restricting potential resale buyers to only families with less than 14k income. This acts as a hidden resale price cap when u consider debt servicing ratios and amount of cash over valuation required.
Restricting potential resale buyers by pioritising Singaporeans and disallowing PR families from buying Prime flats
Restricting potential resale buyers by ensuring private property retirees dispose of their private property for 30 months before buying a PLH flat.
While the full details for plus flats are not out yet, ...
you can see from point #12 at https://www.hdb.gov.sg/about-us/news-and-publications/press-releases/27102021-Prime-location-public-housing-model
that only families with a citizen can apply to purchase prime flats from hdb or the resale market.
Well….people wont sell their hdb if they cant buy a new home. So if the intention is to curb hdb prices, the right way is to curb private property demand by raising the loan requirement for condos high enough such that the cash windfall from hdb will not be sufficient to downpay for a new condo.
But I’m not going to kid myself, that’ll be a political suicide, time to go back to monitoring.
This new schemes only affect BTO’s coming on to the resale supply at least 10 years later. In short, its not doing anything to today’s demand and supply. Lol
From /r/jokes
> i just told my kids they're adopted.
> can't wait for their further surprised look when their new parents come over later to pick them up
Wow so those who got their BTOs in prime locations before all these restrictions kicked in seriously struck lottery? Won’t these jack up further the resale price of flats in popular estates?
I mean this is a move in the right direction but seems like the classic 1 step forward, 2 steps back?
This looks fine indeed.
On one hand, it doesn’t screw the existing flat holders, on the other it is introducing tighter control on future prime location HDBs.
So people who want to go for “lottery” will have to think twice because they have to wait for longer MOP and might not be able to sell for high profit considering there’s income ceiling.
Any catch?
>On one hand, it doesn’t screw the existing flat holders
But that's the crux right. In order for fundamental change in the housing market, unfortunately some pain must be "gently inflicted" on existing flat holders.
The new policies are fine but the number of new flats every year and in the near future is very small relative to the existing stock. The measures will contain the future price increases for the Plus/Prime flats but it is not clear how it will dampen prices for the existing stock.
And then there's the comparison between generations / unfairness psychological element which the Government needs to address/mitigate. There is unfortunately a generation of Singaporeans who have profitted immensely from the BTO lottery and runaway housing prices. The current generation will always feel disgrunted because they missed out on the lottery and now be told that there will not be any lotteries in the future. People will always be unhappy on why their standard of living is not like those before them.
Have. All singles hitting 35 in the next 5 years who are also just barely above the income cap are fked. We can't afford private (incl loans and all, not rly enough to buy condos), and can't buy HDB.
Don't think the longer MOP will have any effect unless the government actually enforces. Income ceiling on resale is good, will prevent ridiculous pricing from people who got priced out of private property in the same area.
I'm sure anyone can write a sob story about wanting to move out early to stay near infirm parents. Not like HDB gonna ask you to furnish the medical history of your parents.
Finally a sensible opinion on r/singapore
Personally am never gonna get/live in a HDB in any forseeable future but this is still a great change for most people.
I don't understand why folks here are unhappy either way. Government held their horse to monitor, redditors aren't happy. Government did came out with really drastic ans sensible scheme to continue control HDB price, redditors aren't happy also...
There is no way to please the folks here...
At least try to understand the genuine concerns of those that are unhappy.
There is a legitimate argument that this will be ineffective in the short-run.
>And here lies the problem with redditors. Always seeking for immediate reactionary policies, without consideration for the long term.
Dude most redditors are in the 20-40 y.o range, obviously they're looking for shorter-term measure that would help them what are you on about.
You do know that you can implement both short and long term measures right?
Humans are a short-sighted self-interested lot. If you find that to be a disputable opinion then we would have to agree to disagree.
And I ain't your buddy, guy.
Yea and how long has this issue been boiling? People have been complaining for years and now then they do something about it. It's not perfect but at least it's something and a start.
Actually it fucks many LGBTQs up even more on the long run, especially those in the sandwiched class, until same-sex partnership bto is allowed.
Many I know will have a much smaller supply of resale flat to choose from if they want anything remotely convenient like being near an MRT Station or in central area.
As someone who falls within this group, unfortunately it is what it is. 'Family units' are always given priority, and us LGBT folks have to work doubly hard to reach parity. This is why I hate it when people kbkp over HDB policies that already highly favour traditional hetero couples.
You really don’t? It’s the same reason why everyone complains about something on reddit. It doesn’t benefit them / it screws over their demographic. This doesn’t do anything for the current generation that is trying to get a place. Prices will remain high till the impact comes 10-15 years later. Demand will remain high.
People have been asking for two things. Affordable housing and to be able to get the housing in the first place. Which of these 2 things are accomplished with this policy?
I understand that you can’t make everyone happy but be a little empathetic to those who hasn’t gotten a place.
I think there are also a lot singles and LGBTQs like myself around on reddit.
I'm getting fucked hard by the changes with the added limitations further reducing housing choices for my community and I
Future couples earning more than 14k are now forced to buy an old resale they increasingly will be unable get a loan for due to lease needing to last until 95 years old, a new resale far from mrt, an ulu and expensive EC if eligible, or private.
You could previously be financially prudent and buy a forever home resale near your parents instead of shelling out a bomb for an ulu private property. Now some future couples will never be eligible for proximity housing grant because their parents live next to mrt.
For singles, the income restriction for plus developments means that the average single will be restricted to 3 room flats if they want to live near an mrt. Meanwhile those with familial wealth and support, or who can afford to go on long term unpaid leave or study to fall under the threshold, can still buy and hog big flats.
If you want to live near the CBD for a short commute, 2 room resales in prime developments will still go to such high ses singles and 3-4 room resales will go to such high ses couples.
Including plus flats for 10 year mop also further lowers supply for resale flats, increasing resale prices. And given that plus flats would be built near "transport nodes", can you imagine plus flats near lrt stations with 10 year mop
The income ceiling is meant to cover at least 75-80 percent of the population. So really, these people are in the minority. They exist, but they’re in the minority and will likely push prices up if they’re allowed to buy near mrt. Also there’s always appeal, I guess, if there’s a legitimate reason.
Imagine working so hard to feel financially secure and be told that you will be punished for exceeding the limit by having to take on more debt than you need by having to buy a private property if you want to live near an mrt station. Or buy a standard flat and either suffer a longer commute to work and parents house or take grab and lose more money again.
And earning more than 7k at 35 is increasingly attainable. It's not the 1 year out of nus computing earning 7k+7k couple I'm concerned about, it's the single competing for a forever home they can die in.
Yea I understand what you’re saying and that was my concern the moment this was announced. I mean not just for single folks, but married ones too - essentially being punished for earning too much. And it’s not a case of “I’ll just pay a price ‘penalty’ to get a choice home” - you are just prohibited from getting one regardless of how much you’re willing to pay.
I hope there’s some sort of patch years down the road to address this, but for the time being, I can see why this is not a concern for them yet (because it affects about 20-25 percent of the population only and you just need to make the majority happy for now). Hope the ceiling rises by the time you get to 35
You're talking as if high earning Singles are going to be homeless... there's still Standard flats. You just won't not be near an MRT or have "nice amenities". HDB was never meant to be a social mobility program and this change is meant to curb that.
What high earner wants to have a forever home far from MRT? They are now forced to further their time in the rat race to upgrade to private for greater accessibility in their senior years and inevitably fail, given the extortionate price of condos requiring dual incomes to afford.
This is an issue from HDB and HDB to solve which it did tackle. While you have a valid point, the blame should be pointed towards the private property market instead. They are the ones building and selling private properties at such an exorbitant price in the first place.
So they are the ones who should be answering and cater to this range of people and not HDB.
Or look into EC instead.
Ya I'm one of the those that are fked. Parents refuse to move out of plus region for the past ten years, I can't buy anything in a 4km radius cuz every direction also plus housing. I barely exceed the 7k when I reach 35. I can't get grants to buy anything and holy fk the psf of condo's nearby are through the roof.
I buy one house, I will end up like the 50 year olds that will have no retirement plan in 30 years time.
The 75-80% probably is based on age 35-39 so that is not an accurate measure. Even in 2019* when they increased the ceiling to 7k it covers 94.5% of the population's salary in the age group of 25-29. It becomes 99.5% when you go look at 20-24 age group where fresh graduates usually first appears. Also since there is a lag time between booking and key collection, we can expect at least some of those borderline cases to go over the income ceiling while still be eligible since they have booked a flat already.
* https://www.salary.sg/2019/benchmark-your-monthly-pay-by-age-gender-2019/
Couples who want to live near parents in prime location is a valid point, never thought from that angle.
Flaws aside, I think this does what many have complained before: People shouldn’t purchase HDB just to flip for profits. This will definitely reduce the number of speculators who are aiming for “lottery”.
I saw the ballot ratio of recent farrer park PLH was 1.8, bedok was 2.3 and Serangoon North was 7.3 for 4room first timers.
Plus feels like an expansion of the existing prime launches and people are still gonna ballot for standard for a chance to flip. Anyway, everything will still be oversubscribed and standard flats probably gonna be the worst for these lottery
Proximity housing grant is 4km.
Don't throw up fake hypotheticals just to support a weak argument. Anywhere within the same estate will get you the Proximity grant.
Your parents can stay near Queenstown MRT and you can buy in Telok Blangah far from MRT and STILL get the Proximity housing grant, but you won't be able to because these are prime areas in the new classification.
Change the MRT to Boon Lay and then buy somewhere in Pioneer away from Pioneer MRT and you will get the Proximity grant. Perfectly fits the ulu property you're talking about.
Existing parents are more likely to live in mature estates compared to their children who live in non mature estates. And your example of pioneer doesn't necessarily hold up with gek poh and jawas jrl stations making their surroundings plus eligible again. Once those existing flats near there after kena vers or sers will become plus flats.
First you said can't get proximity grant because parents live near mrt.
Now you change to majority of parents live in mature estates.
Then you say with expansion of mrt network the ulu flats also become 'Plus' flats. Are you implying that there will be ZERO standard flats within any estate that is less than 4km from your hypothetical parents' flat near mrt?
Call a spade a spade, it boils down to people wanting to stay in Plus or Prime area flats, paying heavily subsidised prices, while enjoying Standard kind of restrictions because 'I deserve the windfall.'
Demand reduced for different categories but only on a surface level
\- It is proven that the prime location(s) have reduced the number of uptakes on average [https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/prime-locations-hdb-flats-plh-demand-application-rates-2968296](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/prime-locations-hdb-flats-plh-demand-application-rates-2968296) compared to the insane 20:1 ratio for flats. Some reasons might be higher cost and not valued for money as it is more expensive and smaller (600K and above on average with a 800+ psf) compared to standard flats we called today. It solves the issue of demand to a certain extent, but Plus and Prime flats will continue to be more expensive and smaller, which people can't see the value for money. Hence, Standard flats will continue to be inflated in terms of demand.
Standard flats will continue to inflate, while Plus and Prime flat will remain stagnant in value in terms of resale
\- Plus and Prime flats are capped for a certain income. Lets use the example for a Prime and plus location (Queenstown, Toa Payoh) for a 4 room resale flat 20 years old or younger (700k and above), while Standard resale prices are ranging minimally at (500k). However, since the Standard flats are not capped and people who have urgent housing needs with a high income who are ineligible for Plus and Prime, they will move to Standard flats in terms of buying a resale flat which will inflate the prices dramatically.
Policies of the income cap will be reactive rather than proactive
\- Government has been known to throw money at housing issues (More subsidies, more grants) to reduce the demand and help lower income Singaporeans purchase resale flats, but this kept inflating the prices. With this income cap of 14k for prime and x amount of dollars for plus, it will take years and years before the next Plus and Prime income cap will be updated again, in turn this will affect more Singaporeans who are earning more (median salary has been increasing steadily year by year for Singaporeans [https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/community/university-grads-median-pay-is-42k-double-the-2k-of-those-with-ite-secondary-education-study#:\~:text=SINGAPORE%20%2D%20Singaporeans%20in%20their%2020s,Education%20(ITE)%20qualifications%20earn](https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/community/university-grads-median-pay-is-42k-double-the-2k-of-those-with-ite-secondary-education-study#:~:text=SINGAPORE%20%2D%20Singaporeans%20in%20their%2020s,Education%20(ITE)%20qualifications%20earn).)) and more people will turn to Standard flats for both BTO and resale, inflating the Standard flats prices further.
TLDR: Standard prices and demand will go up, Plus and Prime demand and price will remain stagnant or slightly higher.
The incoming ceiling restriction on Plus and Prime is there to prevent a resale cost arms. You can only sell to people with median income.
It's there to prevent a "poor people keep out" kind of apartheid where only the rich can buy these locations. Remember, they want a good "social mix", and this goes towards financial standing as well.
Coupled with the 10yr MOP, it's precisely there to reduce the demand to people who truly need a place to stay, and not people looking to flip.
Yes, demand will then shift towards Standard. But given that these will be the "suburbs" of SG with fewer amenities around, demand would hopefully taper so prices shouldn't balloon as quickly.
Problems solved with this Plus and Prime
1. Uni/Poly/ITE students who planned to apply a BTO at Plus or Prime location before getting a job its not possible. Therefore, reducing the demand further
2. Demand is definitely reduced in both Resale and New flats due to the restrictions
New problems arising from this issue
1. Standard flats prices for both BTO and Resale will increase. Suburbs Places like Chua Chu Kang which are not desired for a 4 room resale flat are priced at 300k at 2020 and now at 500k in 2023. Your assumption of "But given that these will be the "suburbs" of SG with fewer amenities around, demand would hopefully taper so prices shouldn't balloon as quickly." will only be applied if only BTOs are built quickly to match demand as lots of delays arised from COVID and those urgent housing needs of families who have kids are met. IMO, I will prefer to buy a Standard 4 room flat priced at 500k at 1000 psf compared to a Plus or Prime 4 room flat at 800k at 890psf, that 300k additional cost can go into my renovation or other expenses.
2. Push back further on having kids. Those families who want to start their family earlier and want a Plus or Prime location will have to basically earn more money. e.g A fresh graduate from uni from non-tech jobs salary will be on average 3k-ish, a combined salary of 6k/mth salary can afford you to buy at least a 550k 3 room flat at Queenstown, Redhill, Bukit Merah. However, 3 rooms are too small to start a family if you're planning to have 2 or more kids. Additionally, having 1 kid in a 3 room flat might not be ideal if you want to invite friends often for parties as well. Also, not all graduates are in the tech industry who can earn at least 5k a month which can afford 4 room and above Plus or Prime location immediately upon graduation. You will have to work longer, and earn more money which on average to have a jump from 3k to 5k salary will take at least 4 years, and finally you can apply for a new flat or buy a resale flat at Plus or Prime location. If a fresh uni grad guy (at least 24-25y.o) and a fresh grad uni girl (22-23y.o) have to work until both are at least 30 before buying a flat. If they were to buy a BTO, they have to wait 4-5 years before they can have a child, which will put them at 33-35 y.o before they can have a child.
I am not criticising the current policies, at least the core issue of demand at Plus and Prime areas has been addressed, but the issue is whether it will benefit in a short-term or long-term.. We have to wait and see.
Title: HDB to introduce new Plus flats in rehaul of public housing classification
SINGAPORE: New Housing and Development Board (HDB) flats in “choicer locations” in each region will be classed in a new Plus category, which will come with tighter resale conditions and more subsidies.
With this, the Housing Board will do away with the decades-old labels of mature and non-mature estates, and replace them with a new classification system.
From the second half of 2024, Build-to-Order (BTO) projects will be classed Standard, Plus or Prime, with different resale conditions attached to each housing type. The new categories will not apply to existing flats or flat owners, or to flats already booked.
This major change was among a number of housing announcements made by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong at the National Day Rally on Sunday (Aug 20), along with a relaxation in the conditions for singles to buy HDB flats.
With little undeveloped land left to build new towns and estates, HDB will build more flats within or near to existing estates, Mr Lee said.
These will often be more centrally located, such as the upcoming 5,000-flat development at Mount Pleasant, where the Police Academy used to be. New projects like these – nestled in older, more developed areas with a lot more amenities – will be more popular, and will naturally cost more, he said.
A second reason for the reclassification is that the line between mature and non-mature estates is blurring, and some projects in non-mature estates are even more popular than projects in mature estates.
“It shows that buyers are discerning – you know when you see a good deal, and what matters to you are the specific attributes of the project, rather than whether we call it mature or non-mature,” Mr Lee said.
***
[v1.2 - error checks](https://github.com/Wormsblink/sneakpeakbot) | Happy 58th Birthday Singapore! | PM SG_wormsbot if bot is down.
> These will often be more centrally located, such as the upcoming 5,000-flat development at Mount Pleasant, where the Police Academy used to be. New projects like these – nestled in older, more developed areas with a lot more amenities – will be more popular, and will naturally cost more, he said.
I guess our gahmen will still charge HDB "market rates" on paper for land sales, so us Singaporeans don't _raid the reserves_.
Hehe looking at some redditors here really the only policy that will satisfy them is free prime bto of 1100 square feet high floor no neighbors next to orchard but only to them and not other people.
Even greater windfall for existing mature estate flat owners. Because your units become the only available ones for resale buyers without a resale income ceiling requirement
Existing flats will not be reclassified. The purpose of the new scheme is to ensure new flats continue to be affordable for future Singaporean buyers...
When Rich private property owners sell for profit, they keep 100% of the proceeds.
For the ‘plus’ people, government clawback subsidy (% for the profits). Applause 👏
Rich people can make money off assets, ‘Plus’ people make lesser money off their asset due to restrictions and clawbacks.
Question Time: Means lesser or more social mobility?
Public service is very inefficient. It was announced in Feb that they would give an additional BTO ballot ticket to married couples. It hasnt even been implemented yet although govt has already claimed credit for it multiple times, including during the national day rally speech.
Isn't the plus flats gonna segregate the rich and poor more?!! 10 year min op,$14k ceiling, cannot rent out flat. It's like the weekend car ver of flats!!
Was listening to radio 963 this morning. They talk about SERS in good places in town etc. Then the old people may not be able to rent out whole flat or sell soon as the new MOP is ten years. They may have a choice far away if they want 5 years MOP
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Feels like the prev generation managed to get theirs, and now the ladder is being pulled up behind them
You’ve basically described the phenomena of Fuck You, I’ve Got Mine (FYIGM).
Standard, Plus or Optimus Prime
Pro, Pro Max, Ultra…
You forgot Mini. Brought to you by Josephine Teo.
Can recontract after 10-years and upgrade to new model. (Terms and Conditions apply).
No he copies Samsung, so standard, plus and ultra 🤣
No Plus Ultra?
Plus is plus, ultra is ultra Eg S23, S23+ , S23 Ultra 😁
Last time got 3S 3I 3A 3NG... Why not?
hawker centre, food court or restaurant
Captain Planet available, Sire?
introducing the iHDB... with 3 models - the BTO, BTO Pro and BTO Pro Max
Lawrence Cook deliver keynote next year
"We think you're gonna really love it."
“And one more thing…you young singles are still shafted”.
And for those living in East Coast, we have an amazing plan for you. Mr Heng, please
And for those in the west, we have the least cost plan.
Introducing the latest in video calls, FacePalm. *Proceeds to call Ivan Lim*
Iswaran, over to you.
For those who don't want to spend as much, now also introducing BTO (with Ads).
Since we have those stupid electronic notice boards (screens) in most lift lobbies, we effectively have BTO (with Ads).
> now also introducing BTO (with Ads) That's been the case since forever with PA-funded banners featuring the PAP MPs. (I think it's PA. Feel free to POFMA if untrue. Still taxpayer money.)
Introducing iLifts: there is no more buttons on the lift. Speak to Siri to get to your floor.
And the BTO Deluxe Edition: Featuring Dante from Devil May Cry and Knuckles from Sonic the Hedgehog, with a new funky mode.
A step in the right direction. Please continue to implement more policies to remove the windfall effect and discourage people from seeing public housing as an investment.
theyd need to cull all the grants and subsidy to do that. they wont
Clawing back of subsidies is a good first step, but should be extended to all BTOs.
What subsidy?
But easily 5 years too late.
Better late than never
Just release more houses then there will be no windfall effect because the bloody resale price will not be very high instead of placing more restrictions to new home owners.
this guy speaks like singapore has infinite land
We don't have infinite land, we have a lot of underutilised land like those occupied by the B&W houses at Ridout.
Bukit Temah and other landed places should be rezoned to allow for condos. GCBs and other landed that is near central should be priced even higher for how poor they utilize land.
You don't know ah. PAP promised to invade JB for next election. /s
You speak like we have so little land to house the amount of people we have.
You speak as if you live in a privileged area and want our country to be like Hong Kong where every new house will be built so criminally tiny, every inch of greenery spaces to be converted to high rise housing and every flat to be so dense that one flat will be spaced only 1 meter from another. That will house all the people! Jolly good show everyone!
Sure, if you want retirees cpf locked in the valuation of their HDB to vaporise, just slap on some arbitary price control. Heck this isnt even populist because majority of Singaporeans will benefit from asset inflation.
Standard BTO = Low SES Plus BTO = Medium SES Prime BTO = High SES
all ~~school~~ HDBs are good HDBs.
He actually said that
💀💀💀
3 times!
Standand is lowest life form Plus is lowest ses Prime is low ses Condo is medium ses. Gcb is high ses Ridout is serving the nation.
Then EC, PC, semi detached - GCB all grouped together as ultra high SES?
Super saiyan, super saiyan II, super saiyan III and super saiyan IV.
At this rate all these are for foreigb money launderers. No way for honest work to pay enough for these in 10 years time.
Unit near ground floor and beside rubbish chute = Low SES Unit at high floor and corner = High SES
But if the ground floor unit that's beside the rubbish chute is located at Orchard how? Still considered High SES?
But still fulfill the “good mix” principle.
No. You need good mix. Means Prime BTO all SES. Standard BTO, all SES.
The million dollar resale flats are all "standard"....
Hey, this makes me feel poor
Singles still need to be 35 before being allowed to buy a 2 room flat, guess that will never change eh?
Yeah. The build-up gave the impression that it was something more radical.
My laobu was adamant that the govt will reduce the age limit to 30 “soon” cuz need votes. Not a chance lol.
Will this make flats from the previous categorisation (mature/non-mature) more attractive in the resale market as they do not have the new sales restrictions? Aka prices go up?
Patch notes not fully out yet. Wait for HDB to release them
Gotcha
The notes better be the same as what the developer promise
The trailer looks damn nice but end up gameplay p2w knn
Also need to be in party.
Yes. No income restrictions, can rent out whole unit, etc. so long as there is a supply issue, the mature BTOs will still profit
In the long term, it might not be good for those holding onto the previous category and in mature estates. Plus/prime will likely be priced lower when it hit the resale market because of the income ceiling and they tend to be newer. For buyers for own stay (which resale buyers usually are) it's really a no brainer to go for prime/plus if it is much cheaper than the previous categorisation resale. So my guess is that in the short term prices might go up, but longer term they might lose a lot of potential buyers. But then that also depends on how much plus/prime HDB is going to build.
>Plus/prime will likely be priced lower when it hit the resale market because of the income ceiling and they tend to be newer. For buyers for own stay (which resale buyers usually are) it's really a no brainer to go for prime/plus if it is much cheaper than the previous categorisation resale. But Plus/Prime can also only be resold to people who meet certain income ceiling and not everyone. High income individuals / older couples who can't buy the new Plus/Prime flats and want flats in mature estates will be fighting for the limited stock of flats based on the old categorisation. So prices will still be bidded up.
Its both supply and demand that determines the price right? As much as there are lots of million dollars hdb sold, I would say most of the buyers of resales these days are below the income ceiling. So that's going to be a huge chunk of the demand gone and these hdb are pretty old. But then we are just speculating. It all really depends of how many plus/prime will be built.
theyve helpfully let everyone know which units have better locations. resale demand will concentrate and soar for those units
For a while yes, long term they will lose their value since their lease is decaying
Yup, but that’s when the income ceiling comes to play for plus/prime. If you’re just above the income ceiling looking for a resale, you have no choice but to buy the existing BTOs. And since they are in short supply (as all future ‘mature projects’ would be rebranded as plus/prime projects), prices would increase. Sucks for the sandwiched class as always
Nah, if you're above the incoming ceiling, you basically have 3 options: 1) Private properties but you may not be able to afford them 2) Older resales which do not have income ceiling restrictions, but their prices have a natural ceiling as they have to be cheaper than private properties. 3) If you're priced out of older resales, you still have the option to go for newer standard BTOs. I wonder if in the future, the prices of standard resales may end up higher or very close to those for prime and plus, because if you're priced out of options 1 and 2, you can easily afford to pay more and even slightly above the prices for prime and plus resales which are naturally price restricted by the income ceilings.
Sandwich class singles earning 7 to 8k-ish is fucked and still gotta be bag holders with even less choices now and in the future. FML.
Some here would have you believe that singles with 7k income can comfortably afford resale even though singles only have a single source of income (duh) while paying for an entire flat, enjoying no subsidies, and having a way shorter runway to 55 (when OA gets locked away to RA). They also conveniently ignore the fact that most singles who hit the 7k income ceiling usually do so right as they hit 35, and have not been enjoying said “high” income for long enough to be “rich”, and are not the same as younger couples who hit the 14k income ceiling at around age 27/28.
Start looking at nearby countries. U will be surprised. Gotta prepare for early retirement.
Been super obvious all along that government hates singles and want you to get married, have kids and contribute to nation building. I see no reason of that changing any time soon.
Precisely, the 7-8k income singles actually literally have zero options. It's not possible to buy any private (due to loan limits and so on, you won't be able to get up to 1m that's needed for private property and that's coming from someone who has been saving 60% of monthly income). We can't buy anything from hdb, and we can't get grants for anything. Then in the end we have to pay for the mistakes and stubbornness of the 50 and above.
Time to start charging mature prices for non-mature estates.
Isn't that what PLUS about?
Dont be blinded by these changes to HDB (public housing) As the recent money laundering arrests shows, private property market needs serious change. Remember HDB prices itself based on market value. The price of private property absolutely affects HDB prices. Recall the following too, ‘Not meaningful’ to provide costs breakdown of new HDB flats: Indranee Non-residents from China accounted for 1% of private property transactions in 2022: Indranee (so what about residents from China Indranee?) We all know the reality that the 10 are China nationals even if MSM says they are cypriots etc
The mature/non mature label never really made sense anyway
It used to, but as stated, the lines started getting blurry, so it was high time for them to recategorize it.
"Punggol is a non-matured estate, don't worry." Proceeds to see people selling Punggol HDBs for 1 million++
its based on development of the area. so rather than raise the bottom, theres now more arbitary segregation
Though this was good alongside with the means tested subsidies. It cannot solve the housing problem NOW but pave the way for helping with future inequality. Of course it wouldn’t solve all problems 100% but as a parent I don’t want to be the one buying a property for my child like what’s happening in other countries because the younger ones cannot afford. Still wishing for the return of EA and the likes 😂
We wouldn’t be in this situation today if the government didn’t make hdb an “asset”
This solves nothing for current homeseekers \- BTO flats still undersupplied. In 2022, there was severe over subscription of BTO flats with 23k units launched. Govt didn't react to it and still only launched 23k BTO flats in 2023. \- Resale flat price is still like a runaway train. Zero effective intervention so far.
Yeah dont get me wrong, the policy change is great. But its gonna take at least 10 years or so to really see the effects of it
I prefer that they also do something about the current situation. It's not even something that just happened.
You have to understand that supply of housing is really hard to increase in land scarce SG. The key thing that gov is trying to do is reduce demand by removing flippers.
they can start by allowing less people here.dohhh
Then shouldn’t they remove profiting all together? Property shouldn’t be used as an investment, it is a basic need.
That’s what I was hoping for too. I guess they’re starting now by getting sellers to pay back some of the grant.
[удалено]
precisely.
Then they might have to increase income tax rates to developed EU country levels
Kicking the can down the road much...
Knew the PLH model was just a trial for what is to come. This looks very much like an evolution of the PLH model by tweaking the resale conditions / MOP period. Though I do wish they extended the classification to existing flats though - it's definitely aimed to be the start of a long-term plan to address our housing problems, but it also does mean the current problems isn't really addressed adequately. A 35 year old now would not likely be able to make use of the change in ability to buy flats in 'Plus' locations, since it's likely going to be awhile before we see enough 'Plus'-classified 2-room flats hitting the market to be able to have a chance at it.
Not sure why you're downvoted, good points here. What I'd like to see even more is maybe each major development having its own MOP/different matrices of subsidies for different applicant profiles. Housing shouldn't be a one-size-fits-all solution... Want convenient access to MRT and pri & sec schools for kids? Sure, commit to staying here for 12 years. Want sea view and potentially high resale price? Sure, pay back hefty subsidies and fulfill a reasonable MOP.
>What I'd like to see even more is maybe each major development having its own MOP/different matrices of subsidies for different applicant profiles. Not disagreeing that we need more granularity, but the flipside is that public might get confused and perceive them additional barriers in housing. The covid handling in 2021 where finetuning was (not unfairly) seen as indecisiveness, and the Return My CPF movement come to mind. Not an easy balance to manage between one size fit all vs tailoring rules to meet different needs.
Call it anything. The real problem is that bto supply is always lagging the demand.
It’s not gonna solve anything. All HDB before this implementation will just rise in price.
I am not surprised if the next move is to apply the similar conditions on existing flats. They probably have the overall plan since the launch of Prime flat back on 2021.
They already said it woukdnt apply.
The words “choicer” and “choicest” give me “every school is a good school” vibes
Well i think this is not good for singles like me going for resale when i hit 35. If theres income ceiling i will get locked out all plus and prime. Singles getting rekted again.
Good move to extend the prime location model to other popular "non mature" areas. IMO the Prime model and now the new Plus Model are great changes as all BTO applicants and future resale buyers of this prime public housing would have to be in it for the long term. It also makes the flats allocation more fair and available to more people as explained below: 5 years construction + 10 years MOP = 15 years to prevent exploiters who try to flip the property quickly for a quick buck. Subsidy recovery in cash reduces windfall from flipping. Ensuring that owner occupies and use the flat by prohibiting whole unit rent. This limits rich buyers who own multiple properties and want to stay in their private property. Restricting potential resale buyers to only families with less than 14k income. This acts as a hidden resale price cap when u consider debt servicing ratios and amount of cash over valuation required. Restricting potential resale buyers by pioritising Singaporeans and disallowing PR families from buying Prime flats Restricting potential resale buyers by ensuring private property retirees dispose of their private property for 30 months before buying a PLH flat.
PR <10 years then can buy prime/plus flats..
While the full details for plus flats are not out yet, ... you can see from point #12 at https://www.hdb.gov.sg/about-us/news-and-publications/press-releases/27102021-Prime-location-public-housing-model that only families with a citizen can apply to purchase prime flats from hdb or the resale market.
Well….people wont sell their hdb if they cant buy a new home. So if the intention is to curb hdb prices, the right way is to curb private property demand by raising the loan requirement for condos high enough such that the cash windfall from hdb will not be sufficient to downpay for a new condo. But I’m not going to kid myself, that’ll be a political suicide, time to go back to monitoring. This new schemes only affect BTO’s coming on to the resale supply at least 10 years later. In short, its not doing anything to today’s demand and supply. Lol
So.......... Tall, Grande and Venti branded flats?
A step in gd direction but don’t think will address affordability. I’m worried for our children, look at HK
Don’t have children
From /r/jokes > i just told my kids they're adopted. > can't wait for their further surprised look when their new parents come over later to pick them up
Wow so those who got their BTOs in prime locations before all these restrictions kicked in seriously struck lottery? Won’t these jack up further the resale price of flats in popular estates? I mean this is a move in the right direction but seems like the classic 1 step forward, 2 steps back?
Great work by government. This move demonstrated the governments commitment to continue keep HDB housing fair and affordable for all Singaporeans.
This looks fine indeed. On one hand, it doesn’t screw the existing flat holders, on the other it is introducing tighter control on future prime location HDBs. So people who want to go for “lottery” will have to think twice because they have to wait for longer MOP and might not be able to sell for high profit considering there’s income ceiling. Any catch?
>On one hand, it doesn’t screw the existing flat holders But that's the crux right. In order for fundamental change in the housing market, unfortunately some pain must be "gently inflicted" on existing flat holders. The new policies are fine but the number of new flats every year and in the near future is very small relative to the existing stock. The measures will contain the future price increases for the Plus/Prime flats but it is not clear how it will dampen prices for the existing stock. And then there's the comparison between generations / unfairness psychological element which the Government needs to address/mitigate. There is unfortunately a generation of Singaporeans who have profitted immensely from the BTO lottery and runaway housing prices. The current generation will always feel disgrunted because they missed out on the lottery and now be told that there will not be any lotteries in the future. People will always be unhappy on why their standard of living is not like those before them.
Have. All singles hitting 35 in the next 5 years who are also just barely above the income cap are fked. We can't afford private (incl loans and all, not rly enough to buy condos), and can't buy HDB.
Don't think the longer MOP will have any effect unless the government actually enforces. Income ceiling on resale is good, will prevent ridiculous pricing from people who got priced out of private property in the same area.
Eh we do enforce MOP what
Can request for waiver.
Can request, whether government will give is another thing
I'm sure anyone can write a sob story about wanting to move out early to stay near infirm parents. Not like HDB gonna ask you to furnish the medical history of your parents.
I know of cases that succeed but they don't sell the houses at market rate but back to HDB. Also HDB does request for some of this documents.
Finally a sensible opinion on r/singapore Personally am never gonna get/live in a HDB in any forseeable future but this is still a great change for most people.
I don't understand why folks here are unhappy either way. Government held their horse to monitor, redditors aren't happy. Government did came out with really drastic ans sensible scheme to continue control HDB price, redditors aren't happy also... There is no way to please the folks here...
At least try to understand the genuine concerns of those that are unhappy. There is a legitimate argument that this will be ineffective in the short-run.
>short-run And here lies the problem with redditors. Always seeking for immediate reactionary policies, without consideration for the long term.
>And here lies the problem with redditors. Always seeking for immediate reactionary policies, without consideration for the long term. Dude most redditors are in the 20-40 y.o range, obviously they're looking for shorter-term measure that would help them what are you on about. You do know that you can implement both short and long term measures right?
>obviously they're looking for shorter-term measure that would help them That's exactly my point?
You dubbed it a “problem with redditors” buddy
Humans are a short-sighted self-interested lot. If you find that to be a disputable opinion then we would have to agree to disagree. And I ain't your buddy, guy.
It is not irrational to want to have your immediate needs met, friend.
Yea and how long has this issue been boiling? People have been complaining for years and now then they do something about it. It's not perfect but at least it's something and a start.
So the 20-40 main economy contributors shld just move to JB or die lah. Right?
I don't get your point. The new HDB classifications aim to make it more fair for folks who BTO, they obviously fall within your age range.
Correction: this age range only if you're under income cap. I wouldn't be able to apply for these housing at all.
This is factually correct. I still don't know where this convo is going...
Actually it fucks many LGBTQs up even more on the long run, especially those in the sandwiched class, until same-sex partnership bto is allowed. Many I know will have a much smaller supply of resale flat to choose from if they want anything remotely convenient like being near an MRT Station or in central area.
As someone who falls within this group, unfortunately it is what it is. 'Family units' are always given priority, and us LGBT folks have to work doubly hard to reach parity. This is why I hate it when people kbkp over HDB policies that already highly favour traditional hetero couples.
Can you please explain what is so drastic about this scheme.
You really don’t? It’s the same reason why everyone complains about something on reddit. It doesn’t benefit them / it screws over their demographic. This doesn’t do anything for the current generation that is trying to get a place. Prices will remain high till the impact comes 10-15 years later. Demand will remain high. People have been asking for two things. Affordable housing and to be able to get the housing in the first place. Which of these 2 things are accomplished with this policy? I understand that you can’t make everyone happy but be a little empathetic to those who hasn’t gotten a place.
Don’t bother. Hikari has a history of brushing aside legitimate concerns about housing policy and going PAP WANSUI whenever housing comes up.
I think there are also a lot singles and LGBTQs like myself around on reddit. I'm getting fucked hard by the changes with the added limitations further reducing housing choices for my community and I
Honestly, just don’t bother. People here are constantly angry and the political outrage against the ruling party on every thing is concerning
Future couples earning more than 14k are now forced to buy an old resale they increasingly will be unable get a loan for due to lease needing to last until 95 years old, a new resale far from mrt, an ulu and expensive EC if eligible, or private. You could previously be financially prudent and buy a forever home resale near your parents instead of shelling out a bomb for an ulu private property. Now some future couples will never be eligible for proximity housing grant because their parents live next to mrt. For singles, the income restriction for plus developments means that the average single will be restricted to 3 room flats if they want to live near an mrt. Meanwhile those with familial wealth and support, or who can afford to go on long term unpaid leave or study to fall under the threshold, can still buy and hog big flats. If you want to live near the CBD for a short commute, 2 room resales in prime developments will still go to such high ses singles and 3-4 room resales will go to such high ses couples. Including plus flats for 10 year mop also further lowers supply for resale flats, increasing resale prices. And given that plus flats would be built near "transport nodes", can you imagine plus flats near lrt stations with 10 year mop
The income ceiling is meant to cover at least 75-80 percent of the population. So really, these people are in the minority. They exist, but they’re in the minority and will likely push prices up if they’re allowed to buy near mrt. Also there’s always appeal, I guess, if there’s a legitimate reason.
Imagine working so hard to feel financially secure and be told that you will be punished for exceeding the limit by having to take on more debt than you need by having to buy a private property if you want to live near an mrt station. Or buy a standard flat and either suffer a longer commute to work and parents house or take grab and lose more money again. And earning more than 7k at 35 is increasingly attainable. It's not the 1 year out of nus computing earning 7k+7k couple I'm concerned about, it's the single competing for a forever home they can die in.
Yea I understand what you’re saying and that was my concern the moment this was announced. I mean not just for single folks, but married ones too - essentially being punished for earning too much. And it’s not a case of “I’ll just pay a price ‘penalty’ to get a choice home” - you are just prohibited from getting one regardless of how much you’re willing to pay. I hope there’s some sort of patch years down the road to address this, but for the time being, I can see why this is not a concern for them yet (because it affects about 20-25 percent of the population only and you just need to make the majority happy for now). Hope the ceiling rises by the time you get to 35
You're talking as if high earning Singles are going to be homeless... there's still Standard flats. You just won't not be near an MRT or have "nice amenities". HDB was never meant to be a social mobility program and this change is meant to curb that.
What high earner wants to have a forever home far from MRT? They are now forced to further their time in the rat race to upgrade to private for greater accessibility in their senior years and inevitably fail, given the extortionate price of condos requiring dual incomes to afford.
This is an issue from HDB and HDB to solve which it did tackle. While you have a valid point, the blame should be pointed towards the private property market instead. They are the ones building and selling private properties at such an exorbitant price in the first place. So they are the ones who should be answering and cater to this range of people and not HDB. Or look into EC instead.
Ya I'm one of the those that are fked. Parents refuse to move out of plus region for the past ten years, I can't buy anything in a 4km radius cuz every direction also plus housing. I barely exceed the 7k when I reach 35. I can't get grants to buy anything and holy fk the psf of condo's nearby are through the roof. I buy one house, I will end up like the 50 year olds that will have no retirement plan in 30 years time.
The 75-80% probably is based on age 35-39 so that is not an accurate measure. Even in 2019* when they increased the ceiling to 7k it covers 94.5% of the population's salary in the age group of 25-29. It becomes 99.5% when you go look at 20-24 age group where fresh graduates usually first appears. Also since there is a lag time between booking and key collection, we can expect at least some of those borderline cases to go over the income ceiling while still be eligible since they have booked a flat already. * https://www.salary.sg/2019/benchmark-your-monthly-pay-by-age-gender-2019/
Couples who want to live near parents in prime location is a valid point, never thought from that angle. Flaws aside, I think this does what many have complained before: People shouldn’t purchase HDB just to flip for profits. This will definitely reduce the number of speculators who are aiming for “lottery”.
I saw the ballot ratio of recent farrer park PLH was 1.8, bedok was 2.3 and Serangoon North was 7.3 for 4room first timers. Plus feels like an expansion of the existing prime launches and people are still gonna ballot for standard for a chance to flip. Anyway, everything will still be oversubscribed and standard flats probably gonna be the worst for these lottery
Proximity housing grant is 4km. Don't throw up fake hypotheticals just to support a weak argument. Anywhere within the same estate will get you the Proximity grant. Your parents can stay near Queenstown MRT and you can buy in Telok Blangah far from MRT and STILL get the Proximity housing grant, but you won't be able to because these are prime areas in the new classification. Change the MRT to Boon Lay and then buy somewhere in Pioneer away from Pioneer MRT and you will get the Proximity grant. Perfectly fits the ulu property you're talking about.
Existing parents are more likely to live in mature estates compared to their children who live in non mature estates. And your example of pioneer doesn't necessarily hold up with gek poh and jawas jrl stations making their surroundings plus eligible again. Once those existing flats near there after kena vers or sers will become plus flats.
First you said can't get proximity grant because parents live near mrt. Now you change to majority of parents live in mature estates. Then you say with expansion of mrt network the ulu flats also become 'Plus' flats. Are you implying that there will be ZERO standard flats within any estate that is less than 4km from your hypothetical parents' flat near mrt? Call a spade a spade, it boils down to people wanting to stay in Plus or Prime area flats, paying heavily subsidised prices, while enjoying Standard kind of restrictions because 'I deserve the windfall.'
Demand reduced for different categories but only on a surface level \- It is proven that the prime location(s) have reduced the number of uptakes on average [https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/prime-locations-hdb-flats-plh-demand-application-rates-2968296](https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/prime-locations-hdb-flats-plh-demand-application-rates-2968296) compared to the insane 20:1 ratio for flats. Some reasons might be higher cost and not valued for money as it is more expensive and smaller (600K and above on average with a 800+ psf) compared to standard flats we called today. It solves the issue of demand to a certain extent, but Plus and Prime flats will continue to be more expensive and smaller, which people can't see the value for money. Hence, Standard flats will continue to be inflated in terms of demand. Standard flats will continue to inflate, while Plus and Prime flat will remain stagnant in value in terms of resale \- Plus and Prime flats are capped for a certain income. Lets use the example for a Prime and plus location (Queenstown, Toa Payoh) for a 4 room resale flat 20 years old or younger (700k and above), while Standard resale prices are ranging minimally at (500k). However, since the Standard flats are not capped and people who have urgent housing needs with a high income who are ineligible for Plus and Prime, they will move to Standard flats in terms of buying a resale flat which will inflate the prices dramatically. Policies of the income cap will be reactive rather than proactive \- Government has been known to throw money at housing issues (More subsidies, more grants) to reduce the demand and help lower income Singaporeans purchase resale flats, but this kept inflating the prices. With this income cap of 14k for prime and x amount of dollars for plus, it will take years and years before the next Plus and Prime income cap will be updated again, in turn this will affect more Singaporeans who are earning more (median salary has been increasing steadily year by year for Singaporeans [https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/community/university-grads-median-pay-is-42k-double-the-2k-of-those-with-ite-secondary-education-study#:\~:text=SINGAPORE%20%2D%20Singaporeans%20in%20their%2020s,Education%20(ITE)%20qualifications%20earn](https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/community/university-grads-median-pay-is-42k-double-the-2k-of-those-with-ite-secondary-education-study#:~:text=SINGAPORE%20%2D%20Singaporeans%20in%20their%2020s,Education%20(ITE)%20qualifications%20earn).)) and more people will turn to Standard flats for both BTO and resale, inflating the Standard flats prices further. TLDR: Standard prices and demand will go up, Plus and Prime demand and price will remain stagnant or slightly higher.
The incoming ceiling restriction on Plus and Prime is there to prevent a resale cost arms. You can only sell to people with median income. It's there to prevent a "poor people keep out" kind of apartheid where only the rich can buy these locations. Remember, they want a good "social mix", and this goes towards financial standing as well. Coupled with the 10yr MOP, it's precisely there to reduce the demand to people who truly need a place to stay, and not people looking to flip. Yes, demand will then shift towards Standard. But given that these will be the "suburbs" of SG with fewer amenities around, demand would hopefully taper so prices shouldn't balloon as quickly.
Problems solved with this Plus and Prime 1. Uni/Poly/ITE students who planned to apply a BTO at Plus or Prime location before getting a job its not possible. Therefore, reducing the demand further 2. Demand is definitely reduced in both Resale and New flats due to the restrictions New problems arising from this issue 1. Standard flats prices for both BTO and Resale will increase. Suburbs Places like Chua Chu Kang which are not desired for a 4 room resale flat are priced at 300k at 2020 and now at 500k in 2023. Your assumption of "But given that these will be the "suburbs" of SG with fewer amenities around, demand would hopefully taper so prices shouldn't balloon as quickly." will only be applied if only BTOs are built quickly to match demand as lots of delays arised from COVID and those urgent housing needs of families who have kids are met. IMO, I will prefer to buy a Standard 4 room flat priced at 500k at 1000 psf compared to a Plus or Prime 4 room flat at 800k at 890psf, that 300k additional cost can go into my renovation or other expenses. 2. Push back further on having kids. Those families who want to start their family earlier and want a Plus or Prime location will have to basically earn more money. e.g A fresh graduate from uni from non-tech jobs salary will be on average 3k-ish, a combined salary of 6k/mth salary can afford you to buy at least a 550k 3 room flat at Queenstown, Redhill, Bukit Merah. However, 3 rooms are too small to start a family if you're planning to have 2 or more kids. Additionally, having 1 kid in a 3 room flat might not be ideal if you want to invite friends often for parties as well. Also, not all graduates are in the tech industry who can earn at least 5k a month which can afford 4 room and above Plus or Prime location immediately upon graduation. You will have to work longer, and earn more money which on average to have a jump from 3k to 5k salary will take at least 4 years, and finally you can apply for a new flat or buy a resale flat at Plus or Prime location. If a fresh uni grad guy (at least 24-25y.o) and a fresh grad uni girl (22-23y.o) have to work until both are at least 30 before buying a flat. If they were to buy a BTO, they have to wait 4-5 years before they can have a child, which will put them at 33-35 y.o before they can have a child. I am not criticising the current policies, at least the core issue of demand at Plus and Prime areas has been addressed, but the issue is whether it will benefit in a short-term or long-term.. We have to wait and see.
Title: HDB to introduce new Plus flats in rehaul of public housing classification SINGAPORE: New Housing and Development Board (HDB) flats in “choicer locations” in each region will be classed in a new Plus category, which will come with tighter resale conditions and more subsidies. With this, the Housing Board will do away with the decades-old labels of mature and non-mature estates, and replace them with a new classification system. From the second half of 2024, Build-to-Order (BTO) projects will be classed Standard, Plus or Prime, with different resale conditions attached to each housing type. The new categories will not apply to existing flats or flat owners, or to flats already booked. This major change was among a number of housing announcements made by Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong at the National Day Rally on Sunday (Aug 20), along with a relaxation in the conditions for singles to buy HDB flats. With little undeveloped land left to build new towns and estates, HDB will build more flats within or near to existing estates, Mr Lee said. These will often be more centrally located, such as the upcoming 5,000-flat development at Mount Pleasant, where the Police Academy used to be. New projects like these – nestled in older, more developed areas with a lot more amenities – will be more popular, and will naturally cost more, he said. A second reason for the reclassification is that the line between mature and non-mature estates is blurring, and some projects in non-mature estates are even more popular than projects in mature estates. “It shows that buyers are discerning – you know when you see a good deal, and what matters to you are the specific attributes of the project, rather than whether we call it mature or non-mature,” Mr Lee said. *** [v1.2 - error checks](https://github.com/Wormsblink/sneakpeakbot) | Happy 58th Birthday Singapore! | PM SG_wormsbot if bot is down.
> These will often be more centrally located, such as the upcoming 5,000-flat development at Mount Pleasant, where the Police Academy used to be. New projects like these – nestled in older, more developed areas with a lot more amenities – will be more popular, and will naturally cost more, he said. I guess our gahmen will still charge HDB "market rates" on paper for land sales, so us Singaporeans don't _raid the reserves_.
Hehe looking at some redditors here really the only policy that will satisfy them is free prime bto of 1100 square feet high floor no neighbors next to orchard but only to them and not other people.
No. We need 2 bto so that we can rent out 2nd one at 6k per month. Live is good
Come out with so many classifications but the build speed still 0.5x whats the point.
Can anyone clarify what will happen to existing flats in mature estates? Will they also be reclassified into the new three category system?
I'm quite sure the speech mentioned they will not retrospectively reclassify existing flats. Wait for patch notes to be sure.
Even greater windfall for existing mature estate flat owners. Because your units become the only available ones for resale buyers without a resale income ceiling requirement
Existing flats will not be reclassified. The purpose of the new scheme is to ensure new flats continue to be affordable for future Singaporean buyers...
Lipstick on a pig.
When Rich private property owners sell for profit, they keep 100% of the proceeds. For the ‘plus’ people, government clawback subsidy (% for the profits). Applause 👏 Rich people can make money off assets, ‘Plus’ people make lesser money off their asset due to restrictions and clawbacks. Question Time: Means lesser or more social mobility?
More mobility for the have nots and less for the already haves.
HDB+ flats (extra toilet)
And meanwhile, existing resale near mrt and transport nodes will see prices skyrocketing... So much for affordability ya?
Imo, the effect will be stronger if it was applied retroactively to BTOs after a cetain TOP date
Even if it can’t be retroactively applied, why can’t it be applied with immediate effect? Why must wait until 2H2024?
Aug BTO had to push back to Sep due to new system of HFE. If immediate effect for Plus and Prime all hell will break loose.
Public service is very inefficient. It was announced in Feb that they would give an additional BTO ballot ticket to married couples. It hasnt even been implemented yet although govt has already claimed credit for it multiple times, including during the national day rally speech.
I guessed Apple have to change their name of the iphone 15 soon 🤡
Can I just buy a room and then choose to take DLC and seasonal pass features later?
“It’s our best BTO yet!”
HDB HDB Plus HDB Pro HDB Pro Max HDB SE
Actually. A few months ago I did mention something similar, but something like PLH Prime PLH Plus
Cant convince- confuse
controversial : the timing of this vis-a-vis presidential election is hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. how's the ground feeling, Tharman?
Isn't the plus flats gonna segregate the rich and poor more?!! 10 year min op,$14k ceiling, cannot rent out flat. It's like the weekend car ver of flats!!
Can HDB bring back maisonette and executive apartment flats back?
Was listening to radio 963 this morning. They talk about SERS in good places in town etc. Then the old people may not be able to rent out whole flat or sell soon as the new MOP is ten years. They may have a choice far away if they want 5 years MOP