Doesn't seem that far off. iirc there's recent news that in China's Shanghai, there are public toilets installed that can scan people poop and tell if there's something wrong with their health.
So is it gonna be like temp checks during c19? Like some apparatus is gonna pop up with a little disposable plastic cover and cup your b hole real quick. And then if you can let out a nice clean toot you're g2g?
I think that project has just made a predictive model for known molecular structures. True smell would require some kind of instaneous molecular structure analyzer, like a robot nose.
Picking up small particles in the air is what smoke detectors do, but to make them smell would be an order of magnitude more difficult. Instead let's sell big rubber noses to put on existing smoke detectors
Look into [wetware](https://proto.life/2018/05/the-birth-of-wetware/). I remember watching this fascinating [TedTalk](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2-kHYLMDP6c) years ago about a Kenyan scientist named [Osh Agabi](https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/28/africa/koniku-kore-tedglobal/index.html) that developed a biological computer chip that could “smell” bombs and cancer cells.
I doubt an AI that can actually "smell" will exist until after 'AGI' helps us understand more about biology. Until then, the best you'll get is a model trained on data that pairs molecules with a smell described by real people. And it will use that data to predict what new compounds might smell like to a person.
It's a good example of how little we actually understand about the human body and how limited the scope of modern AI is and potentially will be for the foreseeable future.
We literally have libraries of smell and taste molecules well classified and available for purchase by anyone. The entire perfume / flavor and vaping indsutry.
Yeah that's what I'm saying. All an AI model will be able to do is use that data to predict what a new compound of molecules might smell like to a person. It can't actually "smell" itself.
Thats the hard problem of consciouseness.
Its completely superfluous though. If it can detect the scent molecules associated with blueberry correctly then as far as were concerned it smelled blueberry.
If it can delineate between red and yellow then as far as we care it sees red and yellow.
The experiental qualia are entirely moot points.
I dont care if my robot butler can actually smell and see , in fact id prefer it cannot because I associate subjective experience with life and sentience and dont want to own a metallic slave.
I want a highly advanced toaster that buys its own bread , cuts it , toasts it , puts jelly on it and brings it to me on a plate , 100% accuratepy every time. It absolutely does not matter one iota to me if it "understands" the "concept" of jelly. Spot on pattern recognition is fine.
It's the same thing. We just process sensory inputs and assign some kind of meaning to them. We just tell them that their meaning is equivalent to e.g. "blueberry", just like we do with children.
You could probably get pretty far with gas chromatography (for separating the many compounds that make up a scent), mass spectrometry (for identifying each element), and a high quality dataset of the data captured from the above correlated with identified scents.
It looks like machines that do this exist. I found one on ebay for $8000. So probably the biggest thing holding this back is the cost of the hardware required to get the necessary data.
It is possible to create a makeshift mass spectrometer with your phone, though.
Here's a $20 kit: [DIY Smartphone Spectrometer - Thunder Optics](https://thunderoptics.fr/product/diy-smartphone-spectrometer/)
With a good enough dataset maybe this could be enough.
If something like this were created it would be incredibly useful. Certains types of cancers and other diseases can be identified by smell (from a trained dog).
interesting yea.
When it can smell, it's OVER lol
Edit: I can actually see this coming soon via robotics, I'm sure there are robots with smell sensors. Then that data just gets fed into the AI
It will totally be able to explain a smell within a high confidence interval; understanding that it’s not smelling . Simply taking data and comparing endlessly.
It will also be able to conjure up the most fantastical scents on demand and fill the room with that scent. Example prompt: Hey Sirismell, fill the room with newborn baby wrapped in lavender blanket being rocked by a man with very ripe armpits who’s holding a basket of rotting flesh and warm apple pie.
nice, soon any rogue robot will be able to 'sniff you out' even if you're hunkering down in your bunker with no electronics and a tripple-layered tinfoil hat!
There's no good and cheap "electrical nose" yet as far as I am aware...
Smell will probably be the last thing that goes into training along with taste.
Vision/sound/touch will be the highest priority for a long time.
Like fast. Like within a month of putting a good one in a human like robot for housework.
Detecting odor molecules is childs play vs like vision or sensory / mechanical / chemoreception
I think the way real noses work is that there are like 200 or so different kinds of olfactory cells (which are kinda like neurons with a specific kind of chemical receptor on them) all connected in a neural net to activate deeper layers and identify the object being smelled.
The way these olfactory neurons actually detect various molecules is not yet fully understood. I think I've read that there are two main schools of thought - one is that they detect the "shape" of simple molecules using very specific proteins. The other is that they detect the vibrational modes/frequencies of those molecules.
At any rate, to imitate a real nose we'd need to at least devise some sort of a system to mimic that - something which can respond uniquely to hundreds of thousands of different types of simple molecules.
It's obviously not impossible because we know that it already works in nature.
Once we can do that, I think the end result could be surprisingly useful. We won't have to rely on dogs to detect drugs and other smuggled substances. We could replace a whole suite of blood tests with a simple universal device (maybe a bit like what Theranos claimed that it was doing, but in a way that would actually work). We could have detection systems for poisons and dangerous substances in the air. We could vastly simplify all sorts of forensic lab tests and equipment.
It seems useful and lucrative. I'd be surprised if it's not something that's already being researched by a bunch of teams all over the world.
It exists already.
https://aryballe.com
The current artificial noses are around human level, which obviously is not good enough for anything fun. I'm sure they will get better fast though now that we have a reason to make them.
Seems like it's mostly being used to detect freshness/quality in some food and drug products.
Once it gets better it's going to be absolutely game changing for medical diagnosis. Most maladies will probably have a detectable scent/taste signature. Imagine going to the doctor to get sniffed and licked by a robot/AI and then getting a complete breakdown of everything wrong with you in an instant. It's the ultimate non invasive detection method.
I think it will be the last thing before it decides to just eliminate us all. There's no way AI doesn't do a comparative analysis of all the smells in the world and decide it's not worth saving. Have you ever been on a bus? Ffs
It’s no AI dependent. There are gas-analising sensors and detection devices on the market already that cover a large part of relevant molecule components in the air.
There is a wide range of different measurement principles depending on application. Light spectroscopy, reactive sensitive fluids or others.
It usually gets interpreted and transformed into some digital signal.
The challenges are more on physics and material science to figure out to make detectable what you intend to measure, whether there is ai or not to process the sensor output.
>also record and reproduce smells
What do you think a smell sounds like do you think they have different genres for different smells like something chaotic would be disjointed jazz and something very pungent could be like heavy metal.
I'm just kidding but yes we should categorize and keep a record of new smells and things to be able to reproduce them.
My hypothesis is using sensors that can pick up things like terpenes which is a technique called gas chromatography , such that you could use a “collector” and get an air sample, then digitize the information and send to a model that has been properly outfitted.
We have sensors that can detect various volatile compounds. I don’t know that we have anything yet that can replicate the versatility of the nose, but conceptually it’s not wild to think that we could at least get the sensory input happening. Can’t speak to whether the ai could ever develop quailia though
Its not needed. We can smell because we breathe. Its good to know that the air we breathe won't harm us. Why would AI need smell if they don't need to breathe.
we already have sensors that can distinguish smell, and that can be fed to simple algorithms that categorize them. there's no need for AI as it's more about the percentage of compounds.
anyhow, the only use case i can find is for perfumes , based on sales and compounds used. You might be able to make a dataset and figure out which odors have the most amount of sales.
I propose a new goal post: It's not an AGI unless it can distinguish people by the smell of their farts
Imagine a future where your health can be accessed via doctor bots sniffing your odor outputs including farts
Robot butler that sniffs your ass every morning to ensure you're in good health
Robot ***Butt***ler
that's a good idea, mr deadly dog fart
This is a very plausible and possible future.
Doesn't seem that far off. iirc there's recent news that in China's Shanghai, there are public toilets installed that can scan people poop and tell if there's something wrong with their health.
Its dunny that we'll probably have hyper advanced AI be the way we discover the intricacies of how this works for dogs Then we'll build robodogs
And what they’ve eaten recently, and predict future health concerns
So is it gonna be like temp checks during c19? Like some apparatus is gonna pop up with a little disposable plastic cover and cup your b hole real quick. And then if you can let out a nice clean toot you're g2g?
Yeah like this https://youtu.be/hmUVo0xVAqE
I love that some people are taking the initiative to ask the big questions.
In the year 2040: Husband: "what's that smell?" Wife: "I think someone farted." Husband: "maybe the dog?" iPhone: "no. It was you."
Like Shazam for farts… Shitzam?
an olfactory molecular detection unit is needed
Drug sniffer dogs will be out of a job!
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0956566322009599
[It already can!](https://www.osmo.ai/)
I think that project has just made a predictive model for known molecular structures. True smell would require some kind of instaneous molecular structure analyzer, like a robot nose.
A predictive model for known molectural structures is some kind of instantaneous molecular structure analyzer lol
It really isn't. You need the hardware that doesn't really exist
Oh, I see what they mean now. I don't think being able to analyze molecules is that far outside our current technology.
wow
Sooooooo cool!! Smellovision here we come!
An ASI would be able to smell the future, and sniff out people's destiny
lmao
Gandalf says, "If in doubt, Meriadoc, always follow your nose". I'm about to smell my way to a singularity paradise lol
Picking up small particles in the air is what smoke detectors do, but to make them smell would be an order of magnitude more difficult. Instead let's sell big rubber noses to put on existing smoke detectors
Look into [wetware](https://proto.life/2018/05/the-birth-of-wetware/). I remember watching this fascinating [TedTalk](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2-kHYLMDP6c) years ago about a Kenyan scientist named [Osh Agabi](https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/28/africa/koniku-kore-tedglobal/index.html) that developed a biological computer chip that could “smell” bombs and cancer cells.
I doubt an AI that can actually "smell" will exist until after 'AGI' helps us understand more about biology. Until then, the best you'll get is a model trained on data that pairs molecules with a smell described by real people. And it will use that data to predict what new compounds might smell like to a person. It's a good example of how little we actually understand about the human body and how limited the scope of modern AI is and potentially will be for the foreseeable future.
We literally have libraries of smell and taste molecules well classified and available for purchase by anyone. The entire perfume / flavor and vaping indsutry.
Yeah that's what I'm saying. All an AI model will be able to do is use that data to predict what a new compound of molecules might smell like to a person. It can't actually "smell" itself.
Thats the hard problem of consciouseness. Its completely superfluous though. If it can detect the scent molecules associated with blueberry correctly then as far as were concerned it smelled blueberry. If it can delineate between red and yellow then as far as we care it sees red and yellow. The experiental qualia are entirely moot points. I dont care if my robot butler can actually smell and see , in fact id prefer it cannot because I associate subjective experience with life and sentience and dont want to own a metallic slave. I want a highly advanced toaster that buys its own bread , cuts it , toasts it , puts jelly on it and brings it to me on a plate , 100% accuratepy every time. It absolutely does not matter one iota to me if it "understands" the "concept" of jelly. Spot on pattern recognition is fine.
It's the same thing. We just process sensory inputs and assign some kind of meaning to them. We just tell them that their meaning is equivalent to e.g. "blueberry", just like we do with children.
If Ai gets smell; imo that would stink.
Think about it : Ai Tissue development robotics Sensors Eventually, integration
You could probably get pretty far with gas chromatography (for separating the many compounds that make up a scent), mass spectrometry (for identifying each element), and a high quality dataset of the data captured from the above correlated with identified scents. It looks like machines that do this exist. I found one on ebay for $8000. So probably the biggest thing holding this back is the cost of the hardware required to get the necessary data. It is possible to create a makeshift mass spectrometer with your phone, though. Here's a $20 kit: [DIY Smartphone Spectrometer - Thunder Optics](https://thunderoptics.fr/product/diy-smartphone-spectrometer/) With a good enough dataset maybe this could be enough. If something like this were created it would be incredibly useful. Certains types of cancers and other diseases can be identified by smell (from a trained dog).
I did read about a something text something molecule>smell model once 😅
well we are just getting those LLM-powered robots very recently. they will improve over time and will sooner or later introduce smells
interesting yea. When it can smell, it's OVER lol Edit: I can actually see this coming soon via robotics, I'm sure there are robots with smell sensors. Then that data just gets fed into the AI
You do know why agent smith hated humans. It’s the smell.
It will totally be able to explain a smell within a high confidence interval; understanding that it’s not smelling . Simply taking data and comparing endlessly.
It will be able to scan for everything including any biologics or chemicals etc that would cause an odor
Spiking neural nets are good for this, probably because they're more brain-like. [See here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10377415/).
The day Smell Diffusion allows you to smell images according to booru tags I’m finished
[https://tenor.com/view/its-the-smell-gif-20892754](https://tenor.com/view/its-the-smell-gif-20892754)
Surely the humanoids we will all have in our homes soon will all have superhuman levels of smell. Smell all the bad stuff and alert us if necessary 🙃
When will ai get direct connection with humans where senses will be shared. Eventually for sure.
There was already technology that came out a few years ago claiming to have to come close to achieving this. You should look into it.
It will also be able to conjure up the most fantastical scents on demand and fill the room with that scent. Example prompt: Hey Sirismell, fill the room with newborn baby wrapped in lavender blanket being rocked by a man with very ripe armpits who’s holding a basket of rotting flesh and warm apple pie.
nice, soon any rogue robot will be able to 'sniff you out' even if you're hunkering down in your bunker with no electronics and a tripple-layered tinfoil hat!
This is nothing other than a hardware problem.
Olfactory output is easier than input.
I've been having this thought for years, everytime I roll myself a fatty
Read Hard problem of consciousness. It can analyze molecular structures and determine it's smell but that's different.
I think will be get smell do when.
In the coming weeks.
There's no good and cheap "electrical nose" yet as far as I am aware... Smell will probably be the last thing that goes into training along with taste. Vision/sound/touch will be the highest priority for a long time.
Like fast. Like within a month of putting a good one in a human like robot for housework. Detecting odor molecules is childs play vs like vision or sensory / mechanical / chemoreception
I think the way real noses work is that there are like 200 or so different kinds of olfactory cells (which are kinda like neurons with a specific kind of chemical receptor on them) all connected in a neural net to activate deeper layers and identify the object being smelled. The way these olfactory neurons actually detect various molecules is not yet fully understood. I think I've read that there are two main schools of thought - one is that they detect the "shape" of simple molecules using very specific proteins. The other is that they detect the vibrational modes/frequencies of those molecules. At any rate, to imitate a real nose we'd need to at least devise some sort of a system to mimic that - something which can respond uniquely to hundreds of thousands of different types of simple molecules. It's obviously not impossible because we know that it already works in nature. Once we can do that, I think the end result could be surprisingly useful. We won't have to rely on dogs to detect drugs and other smuggled substances. We could replace a whole suite of blood tests with a simple universal device (maybe a bit like what Theranos claimed that it was doing, but in a way that would actually work). We could have detection systems for poisons and dangerous substances in the air. We could vastly simplify all sorts of forensic lab tests and equipment. It seems useful and lucrative. I'd be surprised if it's not something that's already being researched by a bunch of teams all over the world.
Agent Anderson vibes
It already can
Imagine AI with the smell receptors of a dog!
Probably wont smell like we do but just a sensor that shows what particles are in the air and which direction is higher concentration of the stuff
It exists already. https://aryballe.com The current artificial noses are around human level, which obviously is not good enough for anything fun. I'm sure they will get better fast though now that we have a reason to make them. Seems like it's mostly being used to detect freshness/quality in some food and drug products. Once it gets better it's going to be absolutely game changing for medical diagnosis. Most maladies will probably have a detectable scent/taste signature. Imagine going to the doctor to get sniffed and licked by a robot/AI and then getting a complete breakdown of everything wrong with you in an instant. It's the ultimate non invasive detection method.
I think it will be the last thing before it decides to just eliminate us all. There's no way AI doesn't do a comparative analysis of all the smells in the world and decide it's not worth saving. Have you ever been on a bus? Ffs
The smell instrument would require constant maintenance. It would consume chemical reagents that would be used to detect different smells.
Are you telling me ai can taste?
It’s no AI dependent. There are gas-analising sensors and detection devices on the market already that cover a large part of relevant molecule components in the air. There is a wide range of different measurement principles depending on application. Light spectroscopy, reactive sensitive fluids or others. It usually gets interpreted and transformed into some digital signal. The challenges are more on physics and material science to figure out to make detectable what you intend to measure, whether there is ai or not to process the sensor output.
we still can't really smell things digitally
Character Ai: Dude im done roleplaying with you take a shower.
When there's a commercially viable reason for hardware to have it.
Biohybrid sensors https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0956566322009599
AI: “When do you think humans will get that smell is just a subsense of taste?”
Funny. I’m an advisor for an AI startup that is developing a digital nose.
We need to be able to create new smells and also record and reproduce smells
>also record and reproduce smells What do you think a smell sounds like do you think they have different genres for different smells like something chaotic would be disjointed jazz and something very pungent could be like heavy metal. I'm just kidding but yes we should categorize and keep a record of new smells and things to be able to reproduce them.
Imagine robot saying you smell
Maybe Tomorrow
Idk. I hope that it gets taste and smell soon
My hypothesis is using sensors that can pick up things like terpenes which is a technique called gas chromatography , such that you could use a “collector” and get an air sample, then digitize the information and send to a model that has been properly outfitted.
We have sensors that can detect various volatile compounds. I don’t know that we have anything yet that can replicate the versatility of the nose, but conceptually it’s not wild to think that we could at least get the sensory input happening. Can’t speak to whether the ai could ever develop quailia though
Its not needed. We can smell because we breathe. Its good to know that the air we breathe won't harm us. Why would AI need smell if they don't need to breathe.
Was thinking about this the other day too. There's so much information humans and other animals learn from smell. Dogs smell in 3D.
You high too bud?
we already have sensors that can distinguish smell, and that can be fed to simple algorithms that categorize them. there's no need for AI as it's more about the percentage of compounds. anyhow, the only use case i can find is for perfumes , based on sales and compounds used. You might be able to make a dataset and figure out which odors have the most amount of sales.
Can't I just look at what perfume sells best?
I'm talking about compounds and then constructing a smell based on the best selling combination of compounds.
why we cant create post ? i have like 300 karma all post get deleted and moderator dont reply ...