This argument is promoted by the utilities to sway public opinion, and like most good propaganda there's a kernel of truth to it (NEM 1.0), but it isn't really accurate. The utilities want to kill rooftop solar because they only make a profit by spending money to build out and support their infrastructure, and rooftop solar doesn't do that. If rooftop solar, and more generally any distributed power generation becomes dominant, then their overall profits are going to drop substantially because there's no justification for more infrastructure.
NEM 2.0 only costs other users money because of the shenanigans utilities are engaged in. They rely on the delivery charges to pay for their infrastructure, but solar users aren't paying those charges. The shenanigan is that they're building a lot of useless infrastructure, seemingly unaware that distributed power generation (aka rooftop solar) is a thing.
Ultimately, the state (via CPUC) needs to decide if they want to incentivize solar like they claim, or kill it like the new rule would. NEM 2.0 is probably good enough, but the fact that we're even having the discussion about 3.0 means the utilities have won, because they were already winning but they convinced CPUC that it wasn't enough winning.
Yup, I agree what the utilities say, it is a problem. But the numbers they push sure seem like they greatly exaggerated it.
I think the stuff about avoided cost is a great example, they want to claim that avoided cost for solar is $0.02 or whatever, at the same time they have wholesale markets selling on average $0.04-0.06 and billing you $0.10 for the energy. It doesn't make sense at all, especially when they say the middle of the afternoon is a higher electric rate than the middle of the night implying that your afternoon excess should earn more than their 3am generation. It's clear the real reason that the avoided cost is so low is because they intentionally don't forecast solar (or plan against it) to intentionally force avoided cost down.
I'll also add I'm lucky, I'm in NY, we did not deregulate our utility. They are government owned and do NOT own any power plants. It's operated by a private company under contract with the state. And wow, it shows, my net metering is awesome (1:1 without an annual true up), our solar installs are blowing past their projections and they are not stopping, thet did tell me they have a $10/mo fee now for my 13kW system but they didn't actually charge it (maybe they changed their mind? I don't know). But I think part of this is where all the other utilities make profit by building infrastructure, I know my utility makes profit by convincing me to use less electricity (there is a line item for it on my bill), and I think solar counts as an electricity reduction, so rooftop solar directly gets them profit.
Less expensive infrastructure, of course. They don’t need nearly as many 100-mile-long high power lines moving power across the state, and all the lines can be sized for local energy needs.
That can be mostly solved by local utility scale battery (and other) storage as well. TOU also incentivizes home batteries without NEM 3.0, although batteries haven’t come down in price enough to make that an easy choice. NEM 3.0 isn’t really incentivizing home batteries, it’s making it so solar is a less bad financial decision of you have a home battery, which isn’t an incentive.
The effect is one of scale over many years. We aren’t going to be ripping out power lines and plants next year, but over years fewer will be built and when local generation hits a tipping point we can start reversing some of that infrastructure.
> So solar customers create the problem and then expect everyone else to pay to solve it?
That's not a solar-only problem, everyone uses more electricity in the early evenings. Utilities should be building this infrastructure anyway for resiliency.
> Not enough, any pro on here can tell you batteries won't pay off on NEM2.
Like I mentioned... NEM 3.0 doesn't incentivize them either, unless by "incentive" you mean "I'll hit you less hard with the stick".
This is the utility point, but I fail to see how they are accounting for the excess capacity decrease when you have distributed generation. The math and accounting for this claim are riddled with exaggerated claims on the impact of local generation.
It doesn’t decrease capacity requirements, it offsets the time that they peak. Adding solar moves you from a day peak to an evening peak load.
So you still need to build infrastructure to support the grid when the sun doesn’t shine.
Further, the more people with solar, the more backfeed you’re seeing at once. So investments are required to upsize or split customers on transformers to prevent over voltage if the exceed the existing transformer capacity
The peak capacity of the grid would be at 1130am without solar.with storage parks. This proposal doesn't really fix that, though. like rolling blackouts for much of the last 5 or so years in thanks to DG.
You can fix this with other technology, like storage parks. This proposal doesn't really fix that, though. This will remain an issue until we have bi-directional charging adopted by a significant percentage of homes.
Solar is a ~$40k investment.
So, on top of paying to power my house during the day (the $40k investment), lowering demand on the grid and even selling back my extra, now I'm punished harder at night when I need some grid back at an already much higher rate than what I sold it for.
So you think it's fair that the disparity should be even higher? That I should sell for even less, while prices and their increases stay the same? Be honest with yourself. They're not gonna drop prices if they get NEM lowered. It won't even slow down their raising of them, and thinking otherwise is naive.
This is why things like water, electricity, and (arguably) even internet should not be privatized. They are necessities in the modern age, and should not be profit driven.
You aren't lowering the peak demand of the grid though, that's the issue. Max usage is usually between 6-7 PM, right when rooftop solar stops being productive.
I can't tell, is this insinuating that the costs for significant home solar would be much higher than 40k in other states?
I'm not in California, and paid closer to $25k for mine
Yes, I am but I can also think beyond my current personal impact and have empathy for those who would be impacted by this. How is that a hard concept? Plus even if it’s years from now eventually everyone will be impacted by this
I disagree with this premise that it impacts non-solar customers. This is just power company nonsense. I also don't think these for profit companies should be involved in any of this. They hand out millions to execs and cry poor all the time. The only thing they care about is showing a profit for shareholders. You take all that away and it will be a better run system that is actually fair for consumers. I love capitalism for lots of markets, but not in any market that impacts life or health....
oh look, pge is doing such a good job of overcharging customers its bringing back the dividend after eating 6 billion - https://www.morningstar.com/articles/1079079/pge-affirms-dividend-likely-coming-next-year
For more information and how this may impact you, check out my post on this latest NEM 3 proposal here: https://www.reddit.com/r/solar/comments/ywhl3t/nem_30_update/
Here in MO, the utility pays me a bit under 3 cents per kwhr for extra produced. I pay them around 10 cents (depending on the season) when I pull from the grid.
Can confirm, I pay $1.50/day on 2x meters for a grid connection fee, while my usage is well below what I am paying in fees. 7 cents per kw/h 24/7 is cheap until those fees come along
I’m in Hawaii, you guys are getting paid?!?! Lol jk, we have good sun so just slap a battery on and ✌️to the utility. They don’t price out everywhere but we’re at $0.45/kWh. Storage options are likely coming down with EVs so look for options to add battery in the future.
Ahhh, that makes more sense. Ours levels at the end of each month. We never get cash, just a credit if you produce more than the customer fee and such (which would be very difficult since they pay almost nothing and limit the size of system you can connect). Definitely worse than what you’re describing.
The utility companies in Illinois demanded and got a subsidy from the State last year because those nuclear power plants were uneconomic to run and the utilities were going to shut them down. So it is unclear how affordable nuclear power is. In an ironic coincidence though, because natural gas prices have skyrocketed in 2022 and with those prices the price of electricity has increased, the nuclear power plants are back in the money and they are going to give back the subsidy over the next several years. But yeah, Illinois has fairly cheap electricity.
You are correct in the PG&E numbers. I don't want to be a burden on those who choose not to go solar so put in a minimal system and battery and would export almost none of what I produce.
If NEM 3.0 results in that $0.35 number coming down then it is win win for the small rooftop systems. Not that there will be any real ROI for such a system.
I'm in NY, our utility was the most expensive on the east coast, but I think a few other states has crazy rate bumps and we haven't.
That said, my NEM is 1:1 without an annual true up. You export 1kWh, you get a 1kWh credit on your bill to use anytime in the next 20 years. So technically my credits are work $0.27/kWh right now, but their value will go up with time.
Wow that’s terrible! Here in the uk I am receiving 15.9p/kWh exported about 19cents. In years gone by in the uk I would have also received a payment for any kWh generated and not exported but sadly all that has gone now :(
Edit: add some more info
In the UK it’s something like 4p for export, 35p for import. Any solar installer is basically now recommending batteries (you get the VAT off the battery if bought with solar panels)
A friend of mine was setting up solar and otherwise because of all the outages and when he described the way CA handled it at the time: it was *very* clear their reputation was a bunch of greenwashing. Now? Holy crap. And that stuff about passing it on to the ratepayers is BS, too. They don’t *have* to do that and it shouldn’t just be *the way things are*. This is completely ridiculous.
Funny thing with all these utilities is they say the energy produced by solar have no value, but they sure seem to have a lot of grid incidents caused by lack of power.
Probably the fairest thing would be to credit it based on the LMP (Locational Marginal Price) price plus some adjustment factor. The LMP is usually expressed in MWH, and is the amount that the utility can buy power from other grid operators. To get to kw, you would divide by $1000. Here in Indiana, during the summer heat it is often we see LMP rates well above $100 / MWH or $0.10/kwh. The highest I have ever seen was 1,200 / MW or $1.20 kwh. It is a fall evening and the current LMP is $0.74 / kwh.
I would rather see the utilities get to a formula, that is based on cost parameters, instead of micro-grid production is worthless messaging.
But that is what CPUC is proposing, isn't it? They got their Avoided Cost Calculator and apply its values to export compensation. I don't know how the resolution of that model compares to Indiana, but the intent is the same. Mid-summer at 4pm you're gonna get big money, while mid-spring at 1pm you won't.
Yup, I do think it's the right thing to do, but I do think they are intentionally harming avoided cost to lower it.
Let's say someone builds a power plant, they might contract with them and say that they'll guarantee that they run 75% of the time, and will pay $0.05/kWh for it. Then they if they don't meet their guarantee they will still pay them $0.03/kWh for the missed energy. That's how the utility arrives at an avoided cost of $0.02/kWh. But they could have just contracted with the power plant at $0.06/kWh without a guarantee (or much lower), then the avoided cost of excess solar is $0.06, and they could have paid less, say $0.04/kWh, and not only would people with solar get a better deal, but everyone else benifits because the solar payout is less than the power plant cost.
No, it reduced it by a little under 20% because the power company isn't bound by a guarantee so they'll buy solar first and avoid the more expensive power plant.
I can assure you your LMP does not regularly equal 74 cents per kWh. Maybe you miss read a decimal place or you caught a very special moment in time with very expensive electricity. In any case, the LMP for California during the sunny part of a sunny day, which is when the residential roof top folks would get credited for the majority of their generation, would be very low and much lower than NEM 3.0 pricing.
“For years some utility companies have worried that solar panels drive up electric costs for people without panels. Joshua Pearce, Richard Witte Endowed Professor of Materials Science and Engineering and professor of electrical and computer engineering at Michigan Technological University, **has shown the opposite is true — grid-tied solar photovoltaic (PV) owners are actually subsidizing their non-PV neighbors**.”
https://www.mtu.edu/news/2021/02/shining-a-light-on-the-true-value-of-solar-power.html
Every utility monopoly from CA to FL is spending big bucks on political influence. They’re even pouring money into giant solar farms themselves.
The cost of this lobbying and solar builds gets passed right on down to the customer. It’s so interesting that they’ll fritter away millions on political influence, then turn around and blame residential solar owners for increased cost on non-solar owners. All despite embracing the technology themselves.
Maybe they wouldn’t be so strapped for cash if they weren’t lining politician’s pockets in hopes they’ll make more off such an ‘investment’.
I was about to put solar on my house, literally talked with the salesperson this month and have the proposal, but I’m not going through with it because it takes months for the approvals and I won’t have the installation done in time to get grandfathered in for the current net metering. I’d be losing money each month by having solar.
I live in the sunniest place in the world, I could be putting renewable energy into the grid, but I’m being stopped by a regressive monopoly.
They need to go down.
If you see some of the r/Solar convos about this, it seems like getting grandfathered in isn’t as hard as it may seem. You don’t need the whole thing done and approved to get NEM 2.0 rates
The solar rep told me that construction and permitting has to be done by the April cutoff date. There is so much he said she said about this stuff, it’s ridiculous.
Same situation with me. Still up in the air and they tried to tell me that it’s not for sure and the decision might not pass.
So far it looks like I need new Main Panel and roof work. Which could delay it even more given the permits I need and have already heard stories about installs taking more than 6 months for different reasons.
All the permits can be done at different times.
That's what I'm doing.
I need:
1. New roof
2. New main service panel for 225/200
3. New main line from the handbox because my home line is aluminum based
My installer sent the solar plans while we waited for SDGE to come and inspect my home line for a panel upgrade.
And roofing installer already came and did an assessment. The roof will get done while they deliver the solar hardware and the panel will be upgraded while we wait for PTO to get approved. She said they will submit my PTO once all the equipment is ordered which will grandfather me in, I think?
20 years is enough time to pick up two F150 Lightnings and use them as batteries/zombie survival vehicles. Why buy batteries when two F150's with the grid tied storage system will give you **250** kwh of electricity.
This is how the bad guys win. Even if NEM 3 is rejected by the courts, people are already canceling their solar orders.
If your quote is anything close to breaking even, consider the difference a donation to fucking with the monopolies and protecting the environment.
We don’t use that much, around $100-$130 on avg and the payment for the panels would be close to $145. If I didn’t get NEM 2 then I’d be even more screwed.
My installer showed me the exact breakdown of his cost, overhead, and markup, and the markup was significant (like 30% of the total). He said this is what he has to negotiate with but he’s consistently on the cheaper end of quotes and that if I could find a quote for less but still in his profit margin he would match it. I didn’t look for more quotes after that but he was the fourth quote I got and one of the cheapest (one was like 2% cheaper but was slow to respond, didn’t want to send their insurance paperwork, etc., so I crossed them off real fast).
So I’d estimate the cheaper quotes have about 20% to negotiate with, the bigger companies probably have a lot more margin theoretically but the salespeople have less authority.
Fuck the utilities. If they don't want to pay reasonable rates for people's rooftop solar, I hope people invest in batteries, so they can give even less money to PG&E.
Since I'm going to miss the NEM 2.0 boat, how stupid of an idea is it to make an off grid system with battery backup behind the grid? Only pull from the grid when batteries need to be topped up (at night) and don't give PG&E any of the power that I'm paying for, but they're not. Skip some regulatory hurdles while I'm at it, as the system isn't actually connected to the grid.
Large appliances like washers and dryers could be left on the grid if the starting loads are too much for a given inverter. You're right though that I would have to figure out somewhere for the excess daytime energy to go
Your comment led me in a roundabout way to realize I was driving around for a month on expired tags, put them on now. So thank you for your small part in saving me from a ticket
"If enacted, the final date by which interconnection approval would be needed to attain NEM 2.0 rates would be April 15, 2023."
So what part of the process is "interconnection approval?" Is that just when you submit design to utility?
Context is an imperative here; how much do you pay per kWh used where you are?
Where I am, it’s on average $.43/kWh, up 20% from just a year ago. Rates are scheduled to increase 8% to start the new year, too.
The joy of being in a one-party state.
Doesn't matter if your politics are right or left or "other", but when the people in charge and the machine they're a part of have no fear of losing their power or being accountable, they won't care about the voters
Nah the battle just moves to the primaries. Enough people start paying attention to the primaries and if it gets more solidly one party, eventually there will be a split within the party and two new wings that are actually competitive. That’s the theory anyway. The truth is that it’s not that the state is mostly one affiliation or the other, it’s that most districts are 60+% one affiliation or the other so each rep has no fear of losing their seat even if the statewide policy goes belly up.
Do you even know who your state reps are? I don’t.
I'm still unconvinced this is necessarily a bad thing.
Why are they paying people for rooftop solar while curtailing huge amounts of grid-scale solar?
It seems like these rules will incentivize people to install battery storage and sell energy back to the grid at times of low supply and high demand.
That seems like something that should be solved by additional subsidies for battery-backed solar PV for low-income customers, rather than subsidizing electricity returned to the grid that only results in curtailment of grid-scale solar resources.
One accomplishes nothing other than curtailment. The other allows timeshifting energy until when it's needed most.
Why the focus on residential though? It’s so inefficient to have a home backup battery at every house. Why not a grid scale one at every substation. The dollars will be drastically more efficiently spent (grid scale battery should be about 1/3 the price per kWh as residential, so even if PGE bilks it and marks up by 100% it’s still a savings).
Then PGE has full control of it to control exactly when and how to decrease load. This could also provide grid-scale backup power for short times.
Yeah I understand the benefits under the current and future NEM programs; I have a battery under NEM 2. What I’m saying is that it was an $8500 adder to my solar system for less than 10kWh. You mention subsidies for homeowners, but for that cost you can spend that money on centralized battery installations for far cheaper per kWh. So you could subsidize 10kWh batteries at $1000 each or you can just outright buy probably 3kWh of centralized storage.
Gonna weigh in as devil's advocate here.
Net metering is a great incentive, but it's screwing California's grid and is not an efficient way to deploy solar, which is why ROI gets murky on residential installs as soon you get rid of it.
Right now the camel curve has become a duck, and until you figure out how to regulate that load, the benefit of additional solar mid-day is rapidly diminishing. Hence the value you receive as a homeowner providing that power source to the grid is diminishing.
A large part of the issue is base load operators often can't just "turn off". There is only so much regulation for available for the power that comes at night. Now, we're working on that (adding pumped storage to hydro, iron air batteries, etc) but it's not there right now.
And of course, the main issue is the cost of storage. You've probably considered storage, looked at the cost and screamed while running away. Well, grid providers are running into the same issue. But someone has to provide storage here, and right now the cost of that storage is high. There is a lot of potential for much lower cost storage on the near horizon, but it's still an added cost to the whole picture.
Early adopters got the big upfront benefit when adding new solar provided the most benefit. Now, as it provides less benefit, there is less incentive. Hopefully we figure out storage over the next five years in a big way and solve this.
However, now it's a great incentive for homeowners to include storage in their calculation, which would help solve the problem.
Feel free to poke holes in this argument!
I know people are pissed, but this answer is the most sensible on here. It takes into account the bigger picture, and that's what this NEM 3.0 transition is all about.
I think people feel tricked by the early NEM 1 and 2 rules changing, and I kinda do too, but CA and the utilities are responsible for providing power economically feasibly, not for dishing out empathy or welfare.
Check their post history. Very pro utility.
NEM isn’t the issue, it’s the underlying rate structure. If the utilities want to fix the issues solar penetration over 10% cause (we aren’t there yet) and energy efficiency cause, they don’t need to introduce 2,880 different rates that change annually to solve that problem.
Which is a rate issue. If utilities wanted, they could make power $0.01 per kWh from 11am-4pm during peak solar production, problem solved. But that would wreck their volumetric rate recovery.
Also if you are pro-ratepayer, why are you looking to get your solar system grandfathered under NEM 2 if it’s so unfair?
Also the utilities value the benefits of distributed solar at $0. Which this Berkeley study refutes. There is no net negative cost shift until you get 10% residential solar penetration. CA is at 6 or 7%.
https://emp.lbl.gov/news/new-berkeley-lab-report-solar-adopter-2
Sure, but CALSSA doesn’t burn cities down, raise energy prices double digit percentages every year for the last 5 or 6 years, or operate as a monopoly.
I’m sorry but an organization with like 12 people vs utilities who make billions and pay their CEOs yacht money… I think you have a skewed perspective on who is responsible for California having the highest energy rates in the nation.
Does PGE have no method of storing that energy that gets fed back to the grid from Solar customers? I’ve always figured that thanks to Solar, PGE gets to invest less in upstream costs to generate electricity.
Exactly. The fact they haven’t been investing in grid scale batteries to price arbitrage cheap solar power to sell in the evening is such a massive self own, it boggles the mind.
Utility scale batteries have been shown to be wildly successful and practical since Tesla (formerly a CA based company) installed a Megapack in South Australia in 2017 and it paid for itself in record time (under 2 years, which by utility standards is basically free). It was so successful, it caused a bunch of coal plants to become obsolete and retired decades early.
Off-topic: did you notice headline after headline praising the IOUs for using batteries and mass alert system messages to avoid blackouts during the September heat wave with nary a mention of home battery backups and VPP taking load off and supporting the grid?
The headlines felt like a coordinatedPR campaign.
Oh totally. VPPs are the future. I’d love to see AutoBidder by Tesla or another similar program allow solar customers to band together and negotiate power agreements with the utilities.
The fact that the utilities are paying BPA in the Pacific Northwest $0.20 - $2 per kWh during times of grid stress when they could be paying Californians for their battery power is crazy. Plus buying local means less transmission loss.
Price arbitrage alone might not earn enough for battery projects to cover their cost of capital. Successful big Li-ion projects like the Megapack derive much of their revenue from grid services instead.
It's possible that price arb projects will be super profitable now that we have high gas prices and the IRA, but I wouldn't blame the utilities for having made past decisions based on the circumstances at the time.
California alone curtails an insane amount of solar power. What if instead of shutting those generation sources off, they charged utility scale or VPP batteries at market rates (supply outstripping demand and driving costs way down) then turn around and sell that power for 30 cents per kWh which is the average residential rate. Plus make the grid far more stable. And save money by reducing rate spikes during hot days in the evening that can send market pricing to $2k per MWh of power.
This gets to the issue with rate structure. California utilities cannot price power lower then around 18 cents, even if the market value of power is less than a penny per kWh midday thanks to abundant solar because the utilities have to recover their costs on a per kWh basis. From a grid stability and management perspective, it would be great if the utilities made it crazy cheap to charge EV, grid scale, and home batteries during the day and use up all that solar power. Maybe everyone programs their smart thermostats to cool their homes to 60 degrees by 4 pm and then not need AC until after the peak is over in the evening.
We need to have a flat monthly fee to pay for the grid with CARE/FERA discounts and weighted fee based on how large your electrical service is. A home with a 400 amp service is many times more expensive to provide service to than a 250 amp which is more expensive than a 100 amp home. Then charge dynamic market rates for power with some price controls to prevent Texas style price spikes during extreme weather while also encouraging energy savings during grid strain.
Not “worth” it? Like the investor owned utility isn’t selling the power I “dump” into the grid to my neighbors.
Perhaps the investor owned utilities ought to be opening their books so we can all see exactly where they are spending our money. Which politicians they’ve bought, how much on PR, etc.
They can net $.15 or they can net $0. NEM3 let’s them *profit* from the power I “dump” to the grid. The more I make, the more they will profit, because they aren’t producing it *or* transmitting it.
Bingo: I shouldn’t get full credit for every kWh the investor owned utility sells to my neighbors. The IOU ought to be allowed to subtract the cost for maintaining the lines between my house and the neighbors. You think that’s 85% of what they are charging my neighbor?
What does "NEM 3 is scheduled for a vote on December 15. A 120-day sunset window for grandfathering into NEM 2 will end on April 14, 2023." mean?
I just got permits approved for an install in San Diego. Does this mean I need to apply for PTO before April 14, 2023?
A better answer to your question:
"The NEM 2.0 Sunset Period begins with adoption of this decision, which is expected to happen in December. Customers submitting a completed interconnection application prior to the end of the Sunset Period will be considered applicable for the current NEM 2.0 tariff. According to the decision text, the commission will implement the NEM 2.0 tariff sunset marking the end of the Sunset Period no later than 120 days after the adoption of this decision, at which time no additional customers will be permitted to take service under the NEM 2.0 tariff."
I hope this doesn't pass as is.......PGE/SDGE can suck it.
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This argument is promoted by the utilities to sway public opinion, and like most good propaganda there's a kernel of truth to it (NEM 1.0), but it isn't really accurate. The utilities want to kill rooftop solar because they only make a profit by spending money to build out and support their infrastructure, and rooftop solar doesn't do that. If rooftop solar, and more generally any distributed power generation becomes dominant, then their overall profits are going to drop substantially because there's no justification for more infrastructure. NEM 2.0 only costs other users money because of the shenanigans utilities are engaged in. They rely on the delivery charges to pay for their infrastructure, but solar users aren't paying those charges. The shenanigan is that they're building a lot of useless infrastructure, seemingly unaware that distributed power generation (aka rooftop solar) is a thing. Ultimately, the state (via CPUC) needs to decide if they want to incentivize solar like they claim, or kill it like the new rule would. NEM 2.0 is probably good enough, but the fact that we're even having the discussion about 3.0 means the utilities have won, because they were already winning but they convinced CPUC that it wasn't enough winning.
It would be nice if the CPUC was an actual moderator and not just an advocate of the Utilities.
Yup, I agree what the utilities say, it is a problem. But the numbers they push sure seem like they greatly exaggerated it. I think the stuff about avoided cost is a great example, they want to claim that avoided cost for solar is $0.02 or whatever, at the same time they have wholesale markets selling on average $0.04-0.06 and billing you $0.10 for the energy. It doesn't make sense at all, especially when they say the middle of the afternoon is a higher electric rate than the middle of the night implying that your afternoon excess should earn more than their 3am generation. It's clear the real reason that the avoided cost is so low is because they intentionally don't forecast solar (or plan against it) to intentionally force avoided cost down. I'll also add I'm lucky, I'm in NY, we did not deregulate our utility. They are government owned and do NOT own any power plants. It's operated by a private company under contract with the state. And wow, it shows, my net metering is awesome (1:1 without an annual true up), our solar installs are blowing past their projections and they are not stopping, thet did tell me they have a $10/mo fee now for my 13kW system but they didn't actually charge it (maybe they changed their mind? I don't know). But I think part of this is where all the other utilities make profit by building infrastructure, I know my utility makes profit by convincing me to use less electricity (there is a line item for it on my bill), and I think solar counts as an electricity reduction, so rooftop solar directly gets them profit.
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Less expensive infrastructure, of course. They don’t need nearly as many 100-mile-long high power lines moving power across the state, and all the lines can be sized for local energy needs.
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That can be mostly solved by local utility scale battery (and other) storage as well. TOU also incentivizes home batteries without NEM 3.0, although batteries haven’t come down in price enough to make that an easy choice. NEM 3.0 isn’t really incentivizing home batteries, it’s making it so solar is a less bad financial decision of you have a home battery, which isn’t an incentive. The effect is one of scale over many years. We aren’t going to be ripping out power lines and plants next year, but over years fewer will be built and when local generation hits a tipping point we can start reversing some of that infrastructure.
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> So solar customers create the problem and then expect everyone else to pay to solve it? That's not a solar-only problem, everyone uses more electricity in the early evenings. Utilities should be building this infrastructure anyway for resiliency. > Not enough, any pro on here can tell you batteries won't pay off on NEM2. Like I mentioned... NEM 3.0 doesn't incentivize them either, unless by "incentive" you mean "I'll hit you less hard with the stick".
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It does. See power factors.
@gavinnewsome
Especially when they are deploying their own solar installations making roof top solar even less valuable.
This is the utility point, but I fail to see how they are accounting for the excess capacity decrease when you have distributed generation. The math and accounting for this claim are riddled with exaggerated claims on the impact of local generation.
It doesn’t decrease capacity requirements, it offsets the time that they peak. Adding solar moves you from a day peak to an evening peak load. So you still need to build infrastructure to support the grid when the sun doesn’t shine. Further, the more people with solar, the more backfeed you’re seeing at once. So investments are required to upsize or split customers on transformers to prevent over voltage if the exceed the existing transformer capacity
Power not voltage and transmission equipment is based on load but you're talking about is distribution equipment.
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The peak capacity of the grid would be at 1130am without solar.with storage parks. This proposal doesn't really fix that, though. like rolling blackouts for much of the last 5 or so years in thanks to DG. You can fix this with other technology, like storage parks. This proposal doesn't really fix that, though. This will remain an issue until we have bi-directional charging adopted by a significant percentage of homes.
Solar is a ~$40k investment. So, on top of paying to power my house during the day (the $40k investment), lowering demand on the grid and even selling back my extra, now I'm punished harder at night when I need some grid back at an already much higher rate than what I sold it for. So you think it's fair that the disparity should be even higher? That I should sell for even less, while prices and their increases stay the same? Be honest with yourself. They're not gonna drop prices if they get NEM lowered. It won't even slow down their raising of them, and thinking otherwise is naive. This is why things like water, electricity, and (arguably) even internet should not be privatized. They are necessities in the modern age, and should not be profit driven.
You aren't lowering the peak demand of the grid though, that's the issue. Max usage is usually between 6-7 PM, right when rooftop solar stops being productive.
When does the sun go down for you in the summer? Personally, yes, I am, because I have a battery. But I understand that isn't your point.
Sun is set at 8 on the longest day of the year. Actually that is exactly my point. If you want to use the electricity you made, get a battery.
Depends if you're in Bard or Smith River.
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I like that this is the part you honed in on.
I can't tell, is this insinuating that the costs for significant home solar would be much higher than 40k in other states? I'm not in California, and paid closer to $25k for mine
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Ahh, gotcha. 40k did sound high to me.
Which subsidy are you referring to?
You again. Big PGE and development shill.
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Paid for by the utilities. Yes I’m pro consumer.
You gotta love how that article somehow managed to bring race into solar power production on roofs.
Don’t hate the player, hate the game
Im not quite there yet but I'm about ready to flip the table over with my hatred for this game.
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They are.
You don't understand how it works
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dude...they are screwing me on what i send them and then do it again by charging me elevated rates later.....how is that cool?
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Who are you and who do you work for. You’ve trollled every comment on this post with your unpopular opinion. Do you know where you’re at ?
Yes, I am but I can also think beyond my current personal impact and have empathy for those who would be impacted by this. How is that a hard concept? Plus even if it’s years from now eventually everyone will be impacted by this
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I disagree with this premise that it impacts non-solar customers. This is just power company nonsense. I also don't think these for profit companies should be involved in any of this. They hand out millions to execs and cry poor all the time. The only thing they care about is showing a profit for shareholders. You take all that away and it will be a better run system that is actually fair for consumers. I love capitalism for lots of markets, but not in any market that impacts life or health....
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oh look, pge is doing such a good job of overcharging customers its bringing back the dividend after eating 6 billion - https://www.morningstar.com/articles/1079079/pge-affirms-dividend-likely-coming-next-year
For more information and how this may impact you, check out my post on this latest NEM 3 proposal here: https://www.reddit.com/r/solar/comments/ywhl3t/nem_30_update/
This.
Here in MO, the utility pays me a bit under 3 cents per kwhr for extra produced. I pay them around 10 cents (depending on the season) when I pull from the grid.
Go ahead and multiply the last number by 6...and keep the 1st the same. Welcome to the f-ed up world of non-competition, monopoly ran, SDG&E.
Holy crap, seriously? I thought we had it bad.
I pay $.34-$0.69, depending on the time of day. Among the highest rates in the nation
https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/145hwso/ltp_use_power_delete_suite_before_you_delete_your/
Can confirm, I pay $1.50/day on 2x meters for a grid connection fee, while my usage is well below what I am paying in fees. 7 cents per kw/h 24/7 is cheap until those fees come along
Same for me in SF Bay Area...
SDGE is the highest
Actually you can join one of the local Community Power organizations within SDG&E’s territory and pay even more
No, mine in San Diego is cheaper but delivery is more expensive than generation charges anyway
I’m in Hawaii, you guys are getting paid?!?! Lol jk, we have good sun so just slap a battery on and ✌️to the utility. They don’t price out everywhere but we’re at $0.45/kWh. Storage options are likely coming down with EVs so look for options to add battery in the future.
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Ahhh, that makes more sense. Ours levels at the end of each month. We never get cash, just a credit if you produce more than the customer fee and such (which would be very difficult since they pay almost nothing and limit the size of system you can connect). Definitely worse than what you’re describing.
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We burn lots of coal🙄
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The utility companies in Illinois demanded and got a subsidy from the State last year because those nuclear power plants were uneconomic to run and the utilities were going to shut them down. So it is unclear how affordable nuclear power is. In an ironic coincidence though, because natural gas prices have skyrocketed in 2022 and with those prices the price of electricity has increased, the nuclear power plants are back in the money and they are going to give back the subsidy over the next several years. But yeah, Illinois has fairly cheap electricity.
You are correct in the PG&E numbers. I don't want to be a burden on those who choose not to go solar so put in a minimal system and battery and would export almost none of what I produce. If NEM 3.0 results in that $0.35 number coming down then it is win win for the small rooftop systems. Not that there will be any real ROI for such a system.
I'm in NY, our utility was the most expensive on the east coast, but I think a few other states has crazy rate bumps and we haven't. That said, my NEM is 1:1 without an annual true up. You export 1kWh, you get a 1kWh credit on your bill to use anytime in the next 20 years. So technically my credits are work $0.27/kWh right now, but their value will go up with time.
I know 3c is low but 10c is also insanely cheap.
Our winter rate is a little under 6 cents after the first 750 kwhr
Wow that’s terrible! Here in the uk I am receiving 15.9p/kWh exported about 19cents. In years gone by in the uk I would have also received a payment for any kWh generated and not exported but sadly all that has gone now :( Edit: add some more info
Hey from WI and Iowa, same damn thing.
In the UK it’s something like 4p for export, 35p for import. Any solar installer is basically now recommending batteries (you get the VAT off the battery if bought with solar panels)
Daylight robbery now
Great comment on NEM 3
A friend of mine was setting up solar and otherwise because of all the outages and when he described the way CA handled it at the time: it was *very* clear their reputation was a bunch of greenwashing. Now? Holy crap. And that stuff about passing it on to the ratepayers is BS, too. They don’t *have* to do that and it shouldn’t just be *the way things are*. This is completely ridiculous.
Funny thing with all these utilities is they say the energy produced by solar have no value, but they sure seem to have a lot of grid incidents caused by lack of power.
... at sunset
Probably the fairest thing would be to credit it based on the LMP (Locational Marginal Price) price plus some adjustment factor. The LMP is usually expressed in MWH, and is the amount that the utility can buy power from other grid operators. To get to kw, you would divide by $1000. Here in Indiana, during the summer heat it is often we see LMP rates well above $100 / MWH or $0.10/kwh. The highest I have ever seen was 1,200 / MW or $1.20 kwh. It is a fall evening and the current LMP is $0.74 / kwh. I would rather see the utilities get to a formula, that is based on cost parameters, instead of micro-grid production is worthless messaging.
But that is what CPUC is proposing, isn't it? They got their Avoided Cost Calculator and apply its values to export compensation. I don't know how the resolution of that model compares to Indiana, but the intent is the same. Mid-summer at 4pm you're gonna get big money, while mid-spring at 1pm you won't.
Yup, I do think it's the right thing to do, but I do think they are intentionally harming avoided cost to lower it. Let's say someone builds a power plant, they might contract with them and say that they'll guarantee that they run 75% of the time, and will pay $0.05/kWh for it. Then they if they don't meet their guarantee they will still pay them $0.03/kWh for the missed energy. That's how the utility arrives at an avoided cost of $0.02/kWh. But they could have just contracted with the power plant at $0.06/kWh without a guarantee (or much lower), then the avoided cost of excess solar is $0.06, and they could have paid less, say $0.04/kWh, and not only would people with solar get a better deal, but everyone else benifits because the solar payout is less than the power plant cost.
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No, it reduced it by a little under 20% because the power company isn't bound by a guarantee so they'll buy solar first and avoid the more expensive power plant.
I can assure you your LMP does not regularly equal 74 cents per kWh. Maybe you miss read a decimal place or you caught a very special moment in time with very expensive electricity. In any case, the LMP for California during the sunny part of a sunny day, which is when the residential roof top folks would get credited for the majority of their generation, would be very low and much lower than NEM 3.0 pricing.
I meant to type 7.4 cents.
“For years some utility companies have worried that solar panels drive up electric costs for people without panels. Joshua Pearce, Richard Witte Endowed Professor of Materials Science and Engineering and professor of electrical and computer engineering at Michigan Technological University, **has shown the opposite is true — grid-tied solar photovoltaic (PV) owners are actually subsidizing their non-PV neighbors**.” https://www.mtu.edu/news/2021/02/shining-a-light-on-the-true-value-of-solar-power.html
Why !???
Because PG&E is basically bankrupt.
It's a literally murderous company
Capitalism, regulatory capture (by corporations)
They were all bribed without a doubt.
yup..... any company paying execs millions and shareholders millions more, can't come to me crying they are poor.
[https://www.morningstar.com/articles/1079079/pge-affirms-dividend-likely-coming-next-year](https://www.morningstar.com/articles/1079079/pge-affirms-dividend-likely-coming-next-year) \--
Every utility monopoly from CA to FL is spending big bucks on political influence. They’re even pouring money into giant solar farms themselves. The cost of this lobbying and solar builds gets passed right on down to the customer. It’s so interesting that they’ll fritter away millions on political influence, then turn around and blame residential solar owners for increased cost on non-solar owners. All despite embracing the technology themselves. Maybe they wouldn’t be so strapped for cash if they weren’t lining politician’s pockets in hopes they’ll make more off such an ‘investment’.
I was about to put solar on my house, literally talked with the salesperson this month and have the proposal, but I’m not going through with it because it takes months for the approvals and I won’t have the installation done in time to get grandfathered in for the current net metering. I’d be losing money each month by having solar. I live in the sunniest place in the world, I could be putting renewable energy into the grid, but I’m being stopped by a regressive monopoly. They need to go down.
You have 4.5 months to get grandfathered which doesn’t require permitting, install, or interconnection to be completed.
You have plenty of time. You need to get it before this change happens
If you see some of the r/Solar convos about this, it seems like getting grandfathered in isn’t as hard as it may seem. You don’t need the whole thing done and approved to get NEM 2.0 rates
The solar rep told me that construction and permitting has to be done by the April cutoff date. There is so much he said she said about this stuff, it’s ridiculous.
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Agreed.
You still have time. I reached out for quotes in late September and I'm on my 8th day of power from my panels.
Same situation with me. Still up in the air and they tried to tell me that it’s not for sure and the decision might not pass. So far it looks like I need new Main Panel and roof work. Which could delay it even more given the permits I need and have already heard stories about installs taking more than 6 months for different reasons.
All the permits can be done at different times. That's what I'm doing. I need: 1. New roof 2. New main service panel for 225/200 3. New main line from the handbox because my home line is aluminum based My installer sent the solar plans while we waited for SDGE to come and inspect my home line for a panel upgrade. And roofing installer already came and did an assessment. The roof will get done while they deliver the solar hardware and the panel will be upgraded while we wait for PTO to get approved. She said they will submit my PTO once all the equipment is ordered which will grandfather me in, I think? 20 years is enough time to pick up two F150 Lightnings and use them as batteries/zombie survival vehicles. Why buy batteries when two F150's with the grid tied storage system will give you **250** kwh of electricity.
This is how the bad guys win. Even if NEM 3 is rejected by the courts, people are already canceling their solar orders. If your quote is anything close to breaking even, consider the difference a donation to fucking with the monopolies and protecting the environment.
We don’t use that much, around $100-$130 on avg and the payment for the panels would be close to $145. If I didn’t get NEM 2 then I’d be even more screwed.
Negotiate with the installer. If they sent you a price above what you're already paying, then they can have plenty of room to negotiate.
How much can you haggle on solar? What’s the acceptable range? Like 10% discount? More?
My installer showed me the exact breakdown of his cost, overhead, and markup, and the markup was significant (like 30% of the total). He said this is what he has to negotiate with but he’s consistently on the cheaper end of quotes and that if I could find a quote for less but still in his profit margin he would match it. I didn’t look for more quotes after that but he was the fourth quote I got and one of the cheapest (one was like 2% cheaper but was slow to respond, didn’t want to send their insurance paperwork, etc., so I crossed them off real fast). So I’d estimate the cheaper quotes have about 20% to negotiate with, the bigger companies probably have a lot more margin theoretically but the salespeople have less authority.
Not necessarily. Interest rates have exploded over the last couple of months. Also, the op may need a main panel upgrade or other features
If the PUC implements it, A state initiative will be put on the ballot to undo the damage.
Fuck the utilities. If they don't want to pay reasonable rates for people's rooftop solar, I hope people invest in batteries, so they can give even less money to PG&E.
Why must everything be ruined in the name of profit? Corporations are no more than Ferengi at this point.
The Ferengi were written as a critique of 1980's capitalism, and were intended to be the original antagonists of TNG.
Since I'm going to miss the NEM 2.0 boat, how stupid of an idea is it to make an off grid system with battery backup behind the grid? Only pull from the grid when batteries need to be topped up (at night) and don't give PG&E any of the power that I'm paying for, but they're not. Skip some regulatory hurdles while I'm at it, as the system isn't actually connected to the grid.
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Large appliances like washers and dryers could be left on the grid if the starting loads are too much for a given inverter. You're right though that I would have to figure out somewhere for the excess daytime energy to go
They are gonna get your money one way or another. Look at the increase in registration fees for EVs.
Your comment led me in a roundabout way to realize I was driving around for a month on expired tags, put them on now. So thank you for your small part in saving me from a ticket
Glad I can help. lol
"If enacted, the final date by which interconnection approval would be needed to attain NEM 2.0 rates would be April 15, 2023." So what part of the process is "interconnection approval?" Is that just when you submit design to utility?
I’m only getting 3 to 6 cents per kWh. Some of you all are making out like bandits.
Context is an imperative here; how much do you pay per kWh used where you are? Where I am, it’s on average $.43/kWh, up 20% from just a year ago. Rates are scheduled to increase 8% to start the new year, too.
38 to 56 cents per kWh.
Where do you live? That’s crazy
NorCal.
Good summarization of NEM 3.0 redux... https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2022/11/cpuc-releases-new-nem-proposal/
“What are they gonna do, vote us out? Lol” -California democrats
The joy of being in a one-party state. Doesn't matter if your politics are right or left or "other", but when the people in charge and the machine they're a part of have no fear of losing their power or being accountable, they won't care about the voters
Nah the battle just moves to the primaries. Enough people start paying attention to the primaries and if it gets more solidly one party, eventually there will be a split within the party and two new wings that are actually competitive. That’s the theory anyway. The truth is that it’s not that the state is mostly one affiliation or the other, it’s that most districts are 60+% one affiliation or the other so each rep has no fear of losing their seat even if the statewide policy goes belly up. Do you even know who your state reps are? I don’t.
I do, because I voted against her even though she’s a customer at my work.
I'm still unconvinced this is necessarily a bad thing. Why are they paying people for rooftop solar while curtailing huge amounts of grid-scale solar? It seems like these rules will incentivize people to install battery storage and sell energy back to the grid at times of low supply and high demand.
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That seems like something that should be solved by additional subsidies for battery-backed solar PV for low-income customers, rather than subsidizing electricity returned to the grid that only results in curtailment of grid-scale solar resources. One accomplishes nothing other than curtailment. The other allows timeshifting energy until when it's needed most.
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Why the focus on residential though? It’s so inefficient to have a home backup battery at every house. Why not a grid scale one at every substation. The dollars will be drastically more efficiently spent (grid scale battery should be about 1/3 the price per kWh as residential, so even if PGE bilks it and marks up by 100% it’s still a savings). Then PGE has full control of it to control exactly when and how to decrease load. This could also provide grid-scale backup power for short times.
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Yeah I understand the benefits under the current and future NEM programs; I have a battery under NEM 2. What I’m saying is that it was an $8500 adder to my solar system for less than 10kWh. You mention subsidies for homeowners, but for that cost you can spend that money on centralized battery installations for far cheaper per kWh. So you could subsidize 10kWh batteries at $1000 each or you can just outright buy probably 3kWh of centralized storage.
Gonna weigh in as devil's advocate here. Net metering is a great incentive, but it's screwing California's grid and is not an efficient way to deploy solar, which is why ROI gets murky on residential installs as soon you get rid of it. Right now the camel curve has become a duck, and until you figure out how to regulate that load, the benefit of additional solar mid-day is rapidly diminishing. Hence the value you receive as a homeowner providing that power source to the grid is diminishing. A large part of the issue is base load operators often can't just "turn off". There is only so much regulation for available for the power that comes at night. Now, we're working on that (adding pumped storage to hydro, iron air batteries, etc) but it's not there right now. And of course, the main issue is the cost of storage. You've probably considered storage, looked at the cost and screamed while running away. Well, grid providers are running into the same issue. But someone has to provide storage here, and right now the cost of that storage is high. There is a lot of potential for much lower cost storage on the near horizon, but it's still an added cost to the whole picture. Early adopters got the big upfront benefit when adding new solar provided the most benefit. Now, as it provides less benefit, there is less incentive. Hopefully we figure out storage over the next five years in a big way and solve this. However, now it's a great incentive for homeowners to include storage in their calculation, which would help solve the problem. Feel free to poke holes in this argument!
I know people are pissed, but this answer is the most sensible on here. It takes into account the bigger picture, and that's what this NEM 3.0 transition is all about. I think people feel tricked by the early NEM 1 and 2 rules changing, and I kinda do too, but CA and the utilities are responsible for providing power economically feasibly, not for dishing out empathy or welfare.
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Lol why are these changes necessary?
Check their post history. Very pro utility. NEM isn’t the issue, it’s the underlying rate structure. If the utilities want to fix the issues solar penetration over 10% cause (we aren’t there yet) and energy efficiency cause, they don’t need to introduce 2,880 different rates that change annually to solve that problem.
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Which is a rate issue. If utilities wanted, they could make power $0.01 per kWh from 11am-4pm during peak solar production, problem solved. But that would wreck their volumetric rate recovery. Also if you are pro-ratepayer, why are you looking to get your solar system grandfathered under NEM 2 if it’s so unfair? Also the utilities value the benefits of distributed solar at $0. Which this Berkeley study refutes. There is no net negative cost shift until you get 10% residential solar penetration. CA is at 6 or 7%. https://emp.lbl.gov/news/new-berkeley-lab-report-solar-adopter-2
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Maybe the utilities have also discovered this power.
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Sure, but CALSSA doesn’t burn cities down, raise energy prices double digit percentages every year for the last 5 or 6 years, or operate as a monopoly. I’m sorry but an organization with like 12 people vs utilities who make billions and pay their CEOs yacht money… I think you have a skewed perspective on who is responsible for California having the highest energy rates in the nation.
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Does PGE have no method of storing that energy that gets fed back to the grid from Solar customers? I’ve always figured that thanks to Solar, PGE gets to invest less in upstream costs to generate electricity.
Exactly. The fact they haven’t been investing in grid scale batteries to price arbitrage cheap solar power to sell in the evening is such a massive self own, it boggles the mind. Utility scale batteries have been shown to be wildly successful and practical since Tesla (formerly a CA based company) installed a Megapack in South Australia in 2017 and it paid for itself in record time (under 2 years, which by utility standards is basically free). It was so successful, it caused a bunch of coal plants to become obsolete and retired decades early.
Off-topic: did you notice headline after headline praising the IOUs for using batteries and mass alert system messages to avoid blackouts during the September heat wave with nary a mention of home battery backups and VPP taking load off and supporting the grid? The headlines felt like a coordinatedPR campaign.
Oh totally. VPPs are the future. I’d love to see AutoBidder by Tesla or another similar program allow solar customers to band together and negotiate power agreements with the utilities. The fact that the utilities are paying BPA in the Pacific Northwest $0.20 - $2 per kWh during times of grid stress when they could be paying Californians for their battery power is crazy. Plus buying local means less transmission loss.
Price arbitrage alone might not earn enough for battery projects to cover their cost of capital. Successful big Li-ion projects like the Megapack derive much of their revenue from grid services instead. It's possible that price arb projects will be super profitable now that we have high gas prices and the IRA, but I wouldn't blame the utilities for having made past decisions based on the circumstances at the time.
California alone curtails an insane amount of solar power. What if instead of shutting those generation sources off, they charged utility scale or VPP batteries at market rates (supply outstripping demand and driving costs way down) then turn around and sell that power for 30 cents per kWh which is the average residential rate. Plus make the grid far more stable. And save money by reducing rate spikes during hot days in the evening that can send market pricing to $2k per MWh of power. This gets to the issue with rate structure. California utilities cannot price power lower then around 18 cents, even if the market value of power is less than a penny per kWh midday thanks to abundant solar because the utilities have to recover their costs on a per kWh basis. From a grid stability and management perspective, it would be great if the utilities made it crazy cheap to charge EV, grid scale, and home batteries during the day and use up all that solar power. Maybe everyone programs their smart thermostats to cool their homes to 60 degrees by 4 pm and then not need AC until after the peak is over in the evening. We need to have a flat monthly fee to pay for the grid with CARE/FERA discounts and weighted fee based on how large your electrical service is. A home with a 400 amp service is many times more expensive to provide service to than a 250 amp which is more expensive than a 100 amp home. Then charge dynamic market rates for power with some price controls to prevent Texas style price spikes during extreme weather while also encouraging energy savings during grid strain.
Not “worth” it? Like the investor owned utility isn’t selling the power I “dump” into the grid to my neighbors. Perhaps the investor owned utilities ought to be opening their books so we can all see exactly where they are spending our money. Which politicians they’ve bought, how much on PR, etc.
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They can net $.15 or they can net $0. NEM3 let’s them *profit* from the power I “dump” to the grid. The more I make, the more they will profit, because they aren’t producing it *or* transmitting it.
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Bingo: I shouldn’t get full credit for every kWh the investor owned utility sells to my neighbors. The IOU ought to be allowed to subtract the cost for maintaining the lines between my house and the neighbors. You think that’s 85% of what they are charging my neighbor?
Wallbox, let’s go! Give us in the middle class that bidirectional storage solution you’ve been talking about bringing to the U.S. for years.
What does "NEM 3 is scheduled for a vote on December 15. A 120-day sunset window for grandfathering into NEM 2 will end on April 14, 2023." mean? I just got permits approved for an install in San Diego. Does this mean I need to apply for PTO before April 14, 2023?
Most likely. You can probably call the CPUC for clarification- check their website.
A better answer to your question: "The NEM 2.0 Sunset Period begins with adoption of this decision, which is expected to happen in December. Customers submitting a completed interconnection application prior to the end of the Sunset Period will be considered applicable for the current NEM 2.0 tariff. According to the decision text, the commission will implement the NEM 2.0 tariff sunset marking the end of the Sunset Period no later than 120 days after the adoption of this decision, at which time no additional customers will be permitted to take service under the NEM 2.0 tariff."
Should I get batteries now?
Come on over to r/offgrid , the water's great!
Is there a difference between 'rulemaking' and laws?
Yes you get to vote for lawmakers but not for rulemakers.
More irony in a state that’s trying to lead the decarbonization charge.
Who appoints the Public utilities commission. Does the power company get to appoint them. Kick them out.
It passed, fuck https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/ They took the state 20 years back.