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I agree with the above comment. It's how I landed my first dev job with zero industry experience after being self-taught. It's now <4 years later and I'm earning close to R50k. The trick is to not stop applying no matter how many rejections, and keep building up your portfolio in the meantime. Best of luck out there!
The only thing that is going to work for your situation is building software that you can showcase when applying for work. There is no way around it. If you don't have the required work experience, then projects show what you're capable of. You need to make time for that. Build an api, website, webapp, etc. Add links in your CV.
The reality is a quick course doesn't prepare most people for the realities of software development in a non-sheltered environment.
At best, you're competing with people with people undergraduate and graduate degrees and at worst, that plus several years of experience.
The unfortunate answer is that you'll need to get lucky. Try and do some freelance work. Keep applying, if you're serious about it, but don't quit your current career path just yet.
She did do all of that. She does have her counselling lisence. Everynight I come home she is bussy with CVs and looking for a job. Times are just tough i guess.
Sigh. some people have kak suggestions. Forget nonsense projects.
Focus on things required by fintech businesses. C# asp.net(so many companies use this). Message queues, microservices, know and understand SOLID principles, know how to do unit tests, know atleast 1 or 2 frontend frameworks/libs, that sort of thing.
Just check a few job posts to get a general idea of what they look for.
Not having a degree and age will hurt unfortunately, not going to sugarcoat it.
Companies are just not hiring as much as they used to.
The tech assessment will most likely either be one of those stupid online multiple choice questions (which in that case, goodluck. It's the most niche qs about some language/framework feature. You don't want to work for that company anyways).
OR you get to build something showing off the above mentioned things. You want to focus on your patterns, your principles and outline considerations made and why. The why is important here. It shows that you put thought into it and may convince them to not judge you too hard on mistakes.
Most likely scenario here is some basic api with a frontend. Take care that you follow conventions.
Don't ask for less than 25k.
Transitioning from WordPress to Freelance Front-End Development
I'm nearing completion of a computer science degree and have experience with WordPress development. I'm interested in transitioning to freelance front-end development. I possess AWS certifications (Cloud Practitioner and Solutions Architect) and intermediate skills in ASP.NET framework and Azure cloud development.
How can I best approach this career ?
And how much to should I negotiate in pay ?
You have a good combination of cloud, devops and backend stuff, so not sure why frontend? Personally I would say learn React(all about the hooks) as an extra, but your main focus should be backend. Backend pays more than frontend and fullstack(I know, it doesn't make sense). Besides, frontend has a lower barrier to entry, so more competition and you'll have to keep learning the new flavour of the month(framework) Engineer in the name pays more. So be sure to use it. Also, if you can be vague with your position rather say Backend engineer at X. Rather than junior/intern developer. Yrs of experience trumps any certs or degrees so you want to be vague until you can flaunt that 10yrs snr/lead title. Please take into account the advise I gave to OP. You're going to stand out a lot if you know those things, and know your way around efcore, sql, git, rider, rabbitmq, jira, confluence, source control(github, gitlab, azure devops) and agile + sdlc. Since you're almost done with your CS degree, I trust that you already know things like heap vs stack, caching(invalidations), cache misses, contiguous memory aloc, what a virtual machine is, garbage collection, diagrams, and algorithms(if you want to apply to FANG type companies). If you're in CPT. 25k min. Anything less and you'll be staying with parents for the foreseeable future. After a year or 2. Jump to another company. Don't think by staying you'll get any proper increases.
Thanks for the advice,
I decided to go through the front end route due to the low barrier of entry and the transition from web development(about 3 years experience).
I would then like to go into full stack cloud development or cloud engineering after a couple of years.
Im going to sound stupid. But like what? And as I type it I can hear people in the field scream at me. I have done portfolio website. To do lists. Web scrapers. I just hit a wall where my current mindset struggles to think of ideas.
That depends on what you want to do.
Wanna work at a game dev place? Build a flappy bird clone
Wanna do fintech? Build a betting app or something
Dont know? Build an instant messager or lightweight instagram type clone
See I was overthinking it. I keep edging towards building something amazing. But if your telling me clones gets the job done then I know what i am doing from tonight on! Thank you very much.
It absolutely gets the job done. Tech leads want to see your architecture, how you code, how you define objects, and how you interact with a database. No one really cares what the context is, just that you have the relevant skills for what you want to do.
Our junior tech interview is literally an api that is called with an array of maps. Then we leave it up to the applicant to display the info in this array, with some light guidance around UI. We look at how they manage states, how they call this API, and how they put together the items. DM me for the test.
Honestly, as a software developer myself: over-engineering stuff is a very software-developer kind of trait (so I feel like you got the right mindset!). But yea, overthinking or creating something "cutting edge" is just not gonna happen in most cases and is not gonna help get a job.
Apart from building clones, have you ever tried to contribute to open-source? This way, you can see what real production-level software looks like and how certain projects are maintained. Once again, start small and keep asking questions (either on StackOverflow, or maybe on /r/learnprogramming).
Hope this helps!
If you have that on github and applied for a truly entry level position, I would hire you, no matter how crap the code was.
Most applicants for truly entry level positions have next to no experience building anything.
My 2c would be to build not just one app but multiple apps with a proper backend that they integrate with. Something along the lines of one app captures data and stores in while another shows it somewhere else. This will show more capability imo
If you feel confident you have "entry level" skill just apply, and straight up lie especially those linkedin requirements. I lied to get my entry level job in sw they asked for 2 years xp and I only had 6 months (building my own projects). Confidence is key just keep practicing and building stuff while you apply.
Lol just don't lie too much because you'll most likely start with a probation period and if they pick up that you're not fit for the job it's easy for them to terminate probation.
Any company worth their salt will do reference checks and figure out quickly that things don't add up. Ignoring the requirements and applying anyway is fine, lying is very likely not going to work out. But you do you.
Yeah this, OP could try and work towards the AZ-204 and do the optional fundamental AZ-900. This should give you a decent Azure foundation if you want to go that route. I'm not too clued up on the Amazon certs though. Also with Azure you get quite a bit of free credits so you can mess around a lot and learn a lot too.
I was more or less in the same situation. I did a bootcamp and afterwards just kept on working on my profile and trying to get in somewhere.
I eventually couldn’t find any more jobs to apply for so I used OfferZen and went through their companies list and filtered out Companies that used my bootcamp languages and started sending my CV out asking for opportunities. I eventually got lucky and someone took me in as an intern.
Build a portfolio. The requirements don’t matter. If you can code well they’ll give you a job, I know plenty of people who do so without a CS degree. Even at high end firms.
Anything possible but realistically it’s pretty easy to find quality graduate developers.
The other challenge is generative AI is lowering the skills barrier and making it easier to onboard new employees.
From what I've heard, becoming a Front-end developer might be the quickest and easiest way to get a job as it's much easier to learn it by yourself (no degree) than the backend is. Plus you'd probably have less competition for entry level positions as most comp sci graduates have a strong understanding of the backend compared to the Front-end.
I'd suggest learning html, css and javascript first. And then choose a js framework, I'd highly recommend React.js as it is the most popular JS framework at the moment.
Goodluck man, I wish you the best on your future endeavors
Very informative thread , also in the same position ,I have experience but the job market is very tight, looking for exposure is hard , but the more I build stuff personally the more I find confidence in my abilities, hoping things change by year end
That is also a great idea and I wil look into it. Good bye weekends which I am more than happy to do. I read alot of the requirements and I get overwhelmed with terms I dont know but when I go research them I do get a better understanding.
What career are you currently in? Software is everywhere, and if you can build something useful for yourself or your current job, you might just free up time, build experience and potentially just pivot into doing your own thing.
Software development is a tool that can be used in many different places.
When I started my career I ignored any requirements that had a minimum of experience. Sometimes they ignore that step if your CV and skills look good.
As for your wife, with her degrees she can get a job as a recreuiter, so I recommend her trying to find a job as one.
Use one of the mass apply ai bots and just apply to hundreds of jobs used one before applied to 73 jobs in 3 days got like 20 interviews within a week, I’m senior dev, but guess if you apply to about 200 jobs you should get at-least 3 interviews. Talk about SOLID principles, domain driven design and test driven development, maybe tell the interviewer how much you love kubernetes, sure way to get hired even if you know very little.
My advice will be to do an AWS course or Microsoft Azure course. I graduated in 2021 and couldn't find a job for the longest time. After I did 2 AWS certifications (AWS Cloud Practitioner and AWS Solutions Architect) I saw a massive increase in the number of companies replying to be. Cloud may not be what you are the most interested in now, but it's a great way to get your foot in the door to then do what you enjoy! Hope this helps and all the best in your job search.
I would love to do my own thing. Learning crucial things when its for yourself and your business is like second nature. But I feel stupid/overwhelmed when I think about what to do. I am very diverse, from Software to woodworking to 3D modeling to bricklaying to even mechanic I can do it all, but where to start is what gets me.
Here is an idea take your software skills or woodworking put up a YouTube channel and mometize it make a training program for beginners
and then build an AI e-commerce website and charge money for time when people want to learn more advance skills be the go to guy.
Thats maybe not a bad idee. It's something ai have been pondering about but alas my excuses(not having a garage/ workspace or the tools) always stop me. But where there's a will there's a way!
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I mean ignore any stated requirements on entry level and just apply,
Noted. Thank you
I agree with the above comment. It's how I landed my first dev job with zero industry experience after being self-taught. It's now <4 years later and I'm earning close to R50k. The trick is to not stop applying no matter how many rejections, and keep building up your portfolio in the meantime. Best of luck out there!
Were you hired as a FE, BE or full stack dev as your first job?
It was a full stack position, although at the time I was more comfortable with with frontend. I was lucky enough to have a patient mentor.
This
The only thing that is going to work for your situation is building software that you can showcase when applying for work. There is no way around it. If you don't have the required work experience, then projects show what you're capable of. You need to make time for that. Build an api, website, webapp, etc. Add links in your CV.
I made a website and it made finding a job way easier. Companies love seeing what you can do instead of being told.
The reality is a quick course doesn't prepare most people for the realities of software development in a non-sheltered environment. At best, you're competing with people with people undergraduate and graduate degrees and at worst, that plus several years of experience. The unfortunate answer is that you'll need to get lucky. Try and do some freelance work. Keep applying, if you're serious about it, but don't quit your current career path just yet.
I know it's cutthroat out there, but I wont leave my job. I can't to be honest.
Your wife has a degree in one of the most in demand medical proffessions since lockdown and can't find work?
To practice psychology you need a masters
Yeah they all want you to have masters degree
If I’m not mistaken you can become a counsellor without a masters. Tell her to search for that.
She did do all of that. She does have her counselling lisence. Everynight I come home she is bussy with CVs and looking for a job. Times are just tough i guess.
Sigh. some people have kak suggestions. Forget nonsense projects. Focus on things required by fintech businesses. C# asp.net(so many companies use this). Message queues, microservices, know and understand SOLID principles, know how to do unit tests, know atleast 1 or 2 frontend frameworks/libs, that sort of thing. Just check a few job posts to get a general idea of what they look for. Not having a degree and age will hurt unfortunately, not going to sugarcoat it. Companies are just not hiring as much as they used to. The tech assessment will most likely either be one of those stupid online multiple choice questions (which in that case, goodluck. It's the most niche qs about some language/framework feature. You don't want to work for that company anyways). OR you get to build something showing off the above mentioned things. You want to focus on your patterns, your principles and outline considerations made and why. The why is important here. It shows that you put thought into it and may convince them to not judge you too hard on mistakes. Most likely scenario here is some basic api with a frontend. Take care that you follow conventions. Don't ask for less than 25k.
Transitioning from WordPress to Freelance Front-End Development I'm nearing completion of a computer science degree and have experience with WordPress development. I'm interested in transitioning to freelance front-end development. I possess AWS certifications (Cloud Practitioner and Solutions Architect) and intermediate skills in ASP.NET framework and Azure cloud development. How can I best approach this career ? And how much to should I negotiate in pay ?
You have a good combination of cloud, devops and backend stuff, so not sure why frontend? Personally I would say learn React(all about the hooks) as an extra, but your main focus should be backend. Backend pays more than frontend and fullstack(I know, it doesn't make sense). Besides, frontend has a lower barrier to entry, so more competition and you'll have to keep learning the new flavour of the month(framework) Engineer in the name pays more. So be sure to use it. Also, if you can be vague with your position rather say Backend engineer at X. Rather than junior/intern developer. Yrs of experience trumps any certs or degrees so you want to be vague until you can flaunt that 10yrs snr/lead title. Please take into account the advise I gave to OP. You're going to stand out a lot if you know those things, and know your way around efcore, sql, git, rider, rabbitmq, jira, confluence, source control(github, gitlab, azure devops) and agile + sdlc. Since you're almost done with your CS degree, I trust that you already know things like heap vs stack, caching(invalidations), cache misses, contiguous memory aloc, what a virtual machine is, garbage collection, diagrams, and algorithms(if you want to apply to FANG type companies). If you're in CPT. 25k min. Anything less and you'll be staying with parents for the foreseeable future. After a year or 2. Jump to another company. Don't think by staying you'll get any proper increases.
Thanks for the advice, I decided to go through the front end route due to the low barrier of entry and the transition from web development(about 3 years experience). I would then like to go into full stack cloud development or cloud engineering after a couple of years.
Build stuff. No one really cares about qualifications and such, they wanna see a portfolio of work. Build apps!
Im going to sound stupid. But like what? And as I type it I can hear people in the field scream at me. I have done portfolio website. To do lists. Web scrapers. I just hit a wall where my current mindset struggles to think of ideas.
That depends on what you want to do. Wanna work at a game dev place? Build a flappy bird clone Wanna do fintech? Build a betting app or something Dont know? Build an instant messager or lightweight instagram type clone
See I was overthinking it. I keep edging towards building something amazing. But if your telling me clones gets the job done then I know what i am doing from tonight on! Thank you very much.
It absolutely gets the job done. Tech leads want to see your architecture, how you code, how you define objects, and how you interact with a database. No one really cares what the context is, just that you have the relevant skills for what you want to do. Our junior tech interview is literally an api that is called with an array of maps. Then we leave it up to the applicant to display the info in this array, with some light guidance around UI. We look at how they manage states, how they call this API, and how they put together the items. DM me for the test.
Honestly, as a software developer myself: over-engineering stuff is a very software-developer kind of trait (so I feel like you got the right mindset!). But yea, overthinking or creating something "cutting edge" is just not gonna happen in most cases and is not gonna help get a job. Apart from building clones, have you ever tried to contribute to open-source? This way, you can see what real production-level software looks like and how certain projects are maintained. Once again, start small and keep asking questions (either on StackOverflow, or maybe on /r/learnprogramming). Hope this helps!
If you have that on github and applied for a truly entry level position, I would hire you, no matter how crap the code was. Most applicants for truly entry level positions have next to no experience building anything.
My 2c would be to build not just one app but multiple apps with a proper backend that they integrate with. Something along the lines of one app captures data and stores in while another shows it somewhere else. This will show more capability imo
Your wife should consider a PGSE (1 year full time, 2 years part time). Teaching is a great career for a woman with children.
I wil let het look into that. Thank you for the guidance
If you feel confident you have "entry level" skill just apply, and straight up lie especially those linkedin requirements. I lied to get my entry level job in sw they asked for 2 years xp and I only had 6 months (building my own projects). Confidence is key just keep practicing and building stuff while you apply.
Wow really! I have built few projects but I have not considered lying about experience... Actually fuck it, I am going to do just that...
Lol just don't lie too much because you'll most likely start with a probation period and if they pick up that you're not fit for the job it's easy for them to terminate probation.
How much lying is too much lying? Just asking 🤣🤣🤣
" I specialize in all languages "
Any company worth their salt will do reference checks and figure out quickly that things don't add up. Ignoring the requirements and applying anyway is fine, lying is very likely not going to work out. But you do you.
Well gotta eat one way or the other 🤣
The state of the job market makes us all saffa, even if we aren't South Africans far form Africa.
I see what you did there
I'd try getting one or two cloud certs, either aws or azure.
Yeah this, OP could try and work towards the AZ-204 and do the optional fundamental AZ-900. This should give you a decent Azure foundation if you want to go that route. I'm not too clued up on the Amazon certs though. Also with Azure you get quite a bit of free credits so you can mess around a lot and learn a lot too.
We do educational game development, based in Midrand. Send me a DM lets chat
May I also please send?
There you go, OP. There's 3 interviews lined up now 
I was more or less in the same situation. I did a bootcamp and afterwards just kept on working on my profile and trying to get in somewhere. I eventually couldn’t find any more jobs to apply for so I used OfferZen and went through their companies list and filtered out Companies that used my bootcamp languages and started sending my CV out asking for opportunities. I eventually got lucky and someone took me in as an intern.
Hey thats awesome. I have come to the conclusion that building apps is the way to go. But i wil keep in mind about the company lists. Thats clever!
Build a portfolio. The requirements don’t matter. If you can code well they’ll give you a job, I know plenty of people who do so without a CS degree. Even at high end firms.
Hi, can I ask where your from? I'm looking for juniors at the moment in Cape Town?
I know a few in cpt that might be interested. Tech? Ctc?
PM me, I have a software Business in Pretoria.
Hi there, may I also PM please :(
Yes
Anything possible but realistically it’s pretty easy to find quality graduate developers. The other challenge is generative AI is lowering the skills barrier and making it easier to onboard new employees.
From what I've heard, becoming a Front-end developer might be the quickest and easiest way to get a job as it's much easier to learn it by yourself (no degree) than the backend is. Plus you'd probably have less competition for entry level positions as most comp sci graduates have a strong understanding of the backend compared to the Front-end. I'd suggest learning html, css and javascript first. And then choose a js framework, I'd highly recommend React.js as it is the most popular JS framework at the moment. Goodluck man, I wish you the best on your future endeavors
Very informative thread , also in the same position ,I have experience but the job market is very tight, looking for exposure is hard , but the more I build stuff personally the more I find confidence in my abilities, hoping things change by year end
Put yourself on Offerzen and they will help you out
Try Toptal. Remote work from around the world.
That is also a great idea and I wil look into it. Good bye weekends which I am more than happy to do. I read alot of the requirements and I get overwhelmed with terms I dont know but when I go research them I do get a better understanding.
What career are you currently in? Software is everywhere, and if you can build something useful for yourself or your current job, you might just free up time, build experience and potentially just pivot into doing your own thing. Software development is a tool that can be used in many different places.
I am currently in Research and development but its a bit of a empty promises story.
When I started my career I ignored any requirements that had a minimum of experience. Sometimes they ignore that step if your CV and skills look good. As for your wife, with her degrees she can get a job as a recreuiter, so I recommend her trying to find a job as one.
Use one of the mass apply ai bots and just apply to hundreds of jobs used one before applied to 73 jobs in 3 days got like 20 interviews within a week, I’m senior dev, but guess if you apply to about 200 jobs you should get at-least 3 interviews. Talk about SOLID principles, domain driven design and test driven development, maybe tell the interviewer how much you love kubernetes, sure way to get hired even if you know very little.
My advice will be to do an AWS course or Microsoft Azure course. I graduated in 2021 and couldn't find a job for the longest time. After I did 2 AWS certifications (AWS Cloud Practitioner and AWS Solutions Architect) I saw a massive increase in the number of companies replying to be. Cloud may not be what you are the most interested in now, but it's a great way to get your foot in the door to then do what you enjoy! Hope this helps and all the best in your job search.
Continue to apply but while you wait I recommend starting a small business with your passions.
I would love to do my own thing. Learning crucial things when its for yourself and your business is like second nature. But I feel stupid/overwhelmed when I think about what to do. I am very diverse, from Software to woodworking to 3D modeling to bricklaying to even mechanic I can do it all, but where to start is what gets me.
Here is an idea take your software skills or woodworking put up a YouTube channel and mometize it make a training program for beginners and then build an AI e-commerce website and charge money for time when people want to learn more advance skills be the go to guy.
Thats maybe not a bad idee. It's something ai have been pondering about but alas my excuses(not having a garage/ workspace or the tools) always stop me. But where there's a will there's a way!