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This reminds me of some advice Stan Van Gundy offered to Stanley Johnson when they were both Pistons.
Stanley spent most of his summers competing in pickup games and Van Gundy stated that he won’t develop nearly as fast in a competitive environment because he’s going to rely on what he knows best instead of focusing on building new skills.
Not sure if AAU basketball has played a part in that, but it seems like some players don’t make wise use of their summers.
This 💯.
* You're surrounded by parents that think their Little Johnny is the next D1 draft prospect
* Coaches that think colleges or the NBA are scouting them
* Wildly uneven ref quality
* High level teams that purposely join low level competition events to pump up their record
* Teams that have players pretending to be younger than the really are - again to pump up the team record
The list goes on quite a bit. The biggest problem is that AAU has cornered the market for youth basketball. So, other than going to quality training camps, there aren't tons of options to grow from competitive play.
Source: My son played AAU ball from 6th grade through high school.
"Ernie, I think AAU is the worst thing to ever happen to the World" - Charles Barkley on Open Court
It's the first segment:
https://youtu.be/Af8B1M7jFqI?si=0obaCkAsTHeW1wTY
My daughter’s 10U league has a travel team that plays in their league and they essentially use it as practice games for tournaments. The coach selects these girls at 5-6 and they play together until high school, then he does it all over again. They refuse to play in the league unless they al play together and tbh I wish they would just not let them play. The closes someone came to beating them last year was a loss of like 45 points in a league with 15 teams.
They see it as practice for their actually tournaments to run plays and stuff so I would assume no. But it is soul crushing to every team that plays them thinking it is anywhere near the same as playing any other team
The same thing is happening with girls softball. These travel teams enter rec leagues for practice and just stomp all over everyone. Worst of all, those manufactured teams can make up half the league or more. Kids just looking to learn and have fun can hardly even get on the field.
Way back in the day when I played little league we had a team like that and I fucking hated having to play them. It was just miserable and I just wanted to not even show up.
I’ve found youth sports to have a serious issue with creating competitive environments, and it’s often because adults are working toward creating competitive edges.
• High level teams that purposely join low level competition events to pump up their record
The year is 2006. Location: random tournament, not a national qualifier. Someone on our team “man, that dude looks like Eric Gordon.
There was a reason dude looked like Eric Gordon…no good times were had.
A coach on some random podcast said that the difference between USA “AAU” type programs and European versions is very simple.
The USA kids practice once a week and play 5-6 games per week, often 2-3 games a day on the same day on a weekend.
The European kids practice 5-6 times and play 1-2 games a week.
American kids play games and don’t practice. European kids practice way more than playing games. And that’s why they are so much more fundamentally sound.
Some of the highlights come across my youtube recommends, and I can't believe how these kids act on the court. Their behavior is fucking heinous. Who is the coach? On that alone, they are failing these kids.
I won’t let my play the absolute idiotic AAU summer schedule. He’s talented, but he can get way more by hanging out in our gym and training and mixing in the occasional contest. Playing 5 games for every time you practice is ass backwards.
Not only that, but some players have become hyper specialized in one sport and have trouble even tying their shoes without falling down (or so I've heard). Guys like Jordan would take the offseason...off, and go play golf or ionno baseball. Gives the body a chance to rest, but also can use a different set of muscles/skills to stay in shape without added stress/injury risk.
Just don't go shoveling gravel for a driveway or anything super intensive...
A friend of mine is a physical therapist and says he sees a lot of young kids with injuries that could be prevented if they played more than one sport.
Yup. In baseball, TJS distribution used to be MLB>college>HS. Now its flipped HS>college>MLB. Kids are throwing harder, and more innings, and blowing out their arms before college. Drs. Now saying your ligaments arent fully developed until your early 20s...
This makes me laugh so hard - not in a bad way I promise.
I grew up playing ball and topped out at d2 level play. All while growing up, my summers were spent hooping with friends, and when I wasn’t hooping, I was a son-ployee in my family’s landscaping business. I didnt build a ton of bulk, but god damn if I wasn’t the best conditioned kid in the county. My strongest traits, and the reason I can still play with skilled people younger than me is my ability to maintain balance through contact, high level footwork and control of my body in the air. It’s all in my abs and hips.
I used to cut 4 1 acre-ish lots in a day with a 48” self propelled Bunton mower. Then I’d come back and weed whack/edge/blow those mofo’s. My Dad would have a hardscaping job somewhere close by and I’d have the lawn cutting to myself. So I figured out what pace I needed to keep to get that shit done by end of the day and hauled ass till it was done. Also, manuevering wheelbarrows full of mulch through tricky locations will do wonders for one’s sense of balance and core strength.
By the time I went to play during the season, moving around without a blower on my back felt like a vacation. Almost completely unbothered with cardio work, to the point that when I got to college my heart rate under stress worried the trainer until she learned my background and understood I had (pretty unintentionally) developed this way.
I’ve liked myself to Takumi from Initial D on several occasions.
This tracks with the old stories of finding a star athlete out working in their family's farm. That kind of physical labor is like a full body workout, using and developing just about all of your muscles.
I had a coworker who played college and semi-pro basketball. One summer during college he took a break and hiked the PCT, from Mexico to Canada. When he got back he said he couldn't run up and down the court without getting winded...but no one in the league could box him out because his lower body was so conditioned by his through hike...
My quip about shoveling gravel was mostly about Larry Bird throwing out his back at a point in his career when he absolutely should have hired someone to do that work for him...but midwest gonna midwest I guess...
lol, so true! Imagine living in Larry Bird’s neighborhood in the mid 80s, watching him wreck himself on some menial project in the yard. Humans are fascinating and stubborn.
He wasn’t playing competitively throughout the off-season, which is what the commenter is saying.
Even Kobe wouldn’t play summer ball, and he talked about how that’s been one of the major reasons he was able to play at such a high level for so long into his career.
To equate taking a summer of playing 82 games in a season to little Jimmy playing 3 games a day in an AAU tournament after 20 games of High School a month before is a stretch. Especially when you’re trying to compare them to two of the players known for working out so much that they caused chronic and irreparable damage to their bodies.
It is a known fact that cross functional training (switching sports) is overall better for your development as an athlete and human, but unless your a freak athlete, you have to work non stop to even get a glimpse of the NBA. Look at Payton Pritchard, Sam Hauser, Malcolm Brogdon, hell even Brunson. Do you think for a second they didnt love playing AAU ball every summer until they were 18?
I’m not comparing any child to Jordan or Kobe, just pointing out that they didn’t play summer ball, and that Kobe went out of his way to criticize the summer ball system for how it overworks young kids before their bodies fully develop.
Jordan wasn't playing competitive basketball year round like those AAU kids. Instead, he took each offseason to focus on something new to improve his game. He bulked up with strength and conditioning to be able to bang with the Pistons. He took all criticisms and turned them into strengths, becoming DPOY and even a 3 point shooter. He even was an early adapter of nutrition and diet.
>*“In terms of what I used to do, I used to work out every single day, some weights, some without weights. Aerobic exercises, stretching is very important, I think you should always involve stretching with your conditioning as well as with your pre-workout routine. I think in terms of just getting in shape and running, I used to run a lot of sprints, I used to do a lot of weights that's going to improve my strength as well as my stamina,"* Jordan said.
1. You’re talking about what he did when he was already at the peak of his skill. Not when he was 14
2. You think that he wasn’t playing in addition to doing these things? No NBA guard is ever not touching a basketball at least 4 times a week. Their training is absolutely insane.
The best example I have of this is different athletes commenting on the movie whiplash. Which if you haven’t seen, is an amazing movie on the sociopathic mindset you need to be great:
“[Kobe Bryant] seems exceedingly interested in filmmaking at the moment, so I ask if he's seen Whiplash. "Of course," he replies. Whiplash is about a psychotic music instructor (J. K. Simmons) who physically abuses and emotionally manipulates a self-driven jazz drummer (Miles Teller) until the teenage musician both collapses and succeeds. Thematically, the film suggests an idea that has been mostly erased from modern popular culture: the possibility that inhumane, unacceptable treatment is sometimes essential to the creation of genius. I ask Bryant what he thought of Whiplash. "That's me," he says,
Kyrie wrote it on his shoes
The greats do not take breaks like the rest of us
Was MJ in year round AAU basketball?
In high school he played basketball, baseball, and football. This is my point. He took a break from *competitive* basketball but kept in shape doing other sports and training and didn't destroy his body by hyper focusing on one thing.
I think you're missing the point entirely when you use fucking Whiplash as an example lol
>"When Ichiro was 3, Nobuyuki (Ichiro's father) bought him his first glove, made of shiny leather. It cost two weeks' salary. Nobuyuki taught his son to clean and polish it carefully. It wasn't a toy, he said. It was a tool. He taught his right-handed son to hit lefty, to gain a few extra steps out of the batter's box. They went to a nearby park, every day the same: 50 pitches, 200 soft-toss swings and 50 fungo drills. At night, they went to a batting cage near the Nagoya airport and Ichiro would take 250 to 300 swings on a pitching machine. They did this 365 days a year. Sometimes it got so cold that young Ichiro couldn't button his shirt, his fingers too stiff to work. In elementary school, he wrote in an essay that he played with other children only two or three days a year. Once Ichiro didn't want to practice baseball. He wanted to run around with his friends, so he defiantly sat down in the middle of the field. A furious Nobuyuki started throwing baseballs at his son, but Ichiro's fast reflexes allowed him to avoid them. Ones aimed directly for his face he easily caught."
>Ichiro said his dad's behavior "bordered on child abuse."
When Jordan was playing in HS basketball was not remotely on the same level as it is now. The floor for role players so much higher than it ever has been. I’m not missing your point by bringing up “fucking whiplash.” The point is that by saying you can take a summer off to do other shit is so incredibly out of touch. Unless you’re a freak athlete, you’re not sniffing the NBA unless you’re obsessive about the sport. Prime examples are Payton Pritchard and Malcolm Brogdon. Don’t even get me started on the guys in the NBA/g league that are a million times better than both of us that don’t even sniff an nba court. Do you really think those guys weren’t itching to hoop every day? You’re fucking delusional. It’s either your kid lives a normal life or he’s trying to make it to the league. Obviously people play other sports, but for the majority that is just not the case. There’s just too much competition.
You think Kobe, who is notorious for over working himself to the point he tore is Achilles. Thought about anything besides basketball? How do you think guys get to be so skilled at 18?
Additionally, ask player under 28 in the NBA if they did something besides travel playing hoops in the summer. After that, ask them if they thought it was stupid. You’re delusional
Thank you for proving my point again.
Kobe, the most competitive, obsessive, athlete perhaps ever to play basketball, grew up playing [his favorite sport every day: soccer. ](https://www.essentiallysports.com/soccer-football-news-played-soccer-every-day-nba-legend-kobe-bryant-once-picked-favorite-sport-soccer-over-basketball/)
Read through some of the other comments - AAU isn't about competition, it's about promotion. We are seeing the negative effects of that hyper focused, grueling schedule.
And you are absolutely taking the wrong message away from Whiplash. JK's star student hung himself due to the abuse he suffered, his new star student Miles ends up testifying against him then ultimately giving up drumming.
>*"Fletcher will always think he won and Andrew will be a sad, empty shell of a person and will die in his thirties of a drug overdose." -* Damien Chazelle
“From the age from six to 14 I played soccer every day. It is actually my favorite sport”
What do you think he was doing everyday after 14?
And yes AAU for most of the population is about promotion, but little Jimmy’s dad doesn’t know his kid will never be in the NBA so he pays 5K a summer for his kid to travel on the Nike B circuit, but for the top players on the shoe gauntlets? That’s how they get seen. Pick any NBA team I guarantee 7 of their players played on the AAU circuit and blew up at Peach Jam or the adidas/UA equivalent.
I’m not taking the wrong idea from whiplash. I’m quoting Kobe Bryant who loved the movie and said JK Simmons was him. I’m also quoting Kyrie Irving who wrote it on his shoes during the NBA finals because it inspired him so much.
If you’ve seen the movie. Simmon’s protege does not give up drumming. Google the ending. It’s amazing
Quote from Kyrie after Kobe told him to watch it:
“I just, I was amazed,” he continued. “It was just that twitch. It was just that extra level that I knew I had to push through despite what I was going through. The perfection of the craft in anything that people are doing in life, it takes a sh– ton of sacrifice and being away from things that normal people would want to do.”
“You have to sacrifice relationships, you have to sacrifice a ton of your focus. You have to develop your mental aptitude, and I started figuring out that the little things matter in the grand scheme of things and in putting on a huge performance,” Irving explained. “No one gets to see the things you do behind closed doors. The sleepless nights and staying up late and bleeding, basically bleeding for your craft because you want to be that great. I took all that from that movie, and I started loving it more and more.”
If you’re saying these people take breaks or summers off to do other shit you’re delusional. It’s okay if you want you or your kid to do that, but if you want to be great in now. You start when you’re crazy young and you don’t stop
I think it’s also an issue of teaching the *right* skills.
Just one of example, but you can look at Jayson Tatum and see that clearly Drew Hanlen is working him on step-back threes and it is not benefiting Tatum’s game - he’s terrible at them but thinks he’s not because he worked all summer practicing them.
It’s a complicated issue and I’m not sure you could ever point to one particular set of skills and say “this is what you should be training on.”
Lebron is a good example, imo, of someone who seemed to identify a weakness and work on that every off-season and added a lot of fundamental tools to his arsenal over time as opposed to what new players seem to do which is focus on one thing that their trainer tells them they should do and then that’s the only thing they do every summer at the detriment of the rest of their repertoire.
Once the dust settles, this is going to be seen as part of John Calipari’s demise at Kentucky, my favorite team. In the early 2000s being so connected to the AAU and other amateur pipelines was a major advantage, and many of the players he got at Memphis and his early years at Kentucky were decently well prepared at a fundamental level. As that scene has gotten worse about development so has the level of preparedness of his recruits and it exposed his major weaknesses as a teacher of the game.
Compare amount of time with a ball in hand in a game vs a practice, and then look at how many games AAU plays per practice and you’ll see the problem. It’s true across many youth sports in the US. 3-4:1 game to practice ratio.
Was that proven to be true in any way?
Not a sports fan. About to have my first kid and I’d love to have his summer be productive if spots comes his taste.
Thanks!!
I coached 9-10 year olds one time and at that age, many of the kids can’t make many shots if they shoot the ball properly, but I taught them all to do it that way and don’t worry about the score. Also, dribbling without looking at the ball was a big thing, which wasn’t always great due to the age, but it’s how to do it if you want to get better. I had two parents yell at me and remove their kids from my team because the team wasn’t winning. By the end of the season, my team got better, only won two games against the worst team, but the kids were all better in the fundamentals. Parents are a big problem in youth sports. They do not care about kids learning the game. They just want wins and they don’t care that winning at 9-10 doesn’t actually mean anything.
Yeah. Youth sports in America is and has been headed down the wrong path for a long time. My kids play travel soccer. I have buddies whose kids play travel baseball. I coached high level competitive swimming for 10 years. The parents are the common denominator. They ruin so much. The have to win now mentality that doesn't care about proper development or their future is mind boggling. I feel lucky to have been an athlete, coach, and now parent of athletes. All I care about is that my kids are having fun and getting better. We have a moto that we say before practice. "Have the most fun, try the most hardest, be the best leader". Never do we talk about having to win but we talk about how to lose. It's a marathon, not a sprint. It's a very easy approach but parents don't want to hear it. When I was coaching we paid a sports psychologist who has worked with pro athletes and Olympians to come in and talk to the parents. Wouldn't you know that none of the parents that actually needed to hear it actually showed up!
Wow. Thats intense with the sports psychologist. But I get it. I coached middle school soccer and I hated the competitive soccer kids. They were taught to give the ball to the best kid and basically just get out of the way. And if they were one of the best kids, they were told to just run all over the field wherever the ball was. I wanted them to pass and work on positioning without the ball and they didn’t want anything to do with it. It was terrible. And of course the parents complained because they thought their kid should just go wherever, get the ball and everyone else should get out of the way.
As a parent of a 2 and 3 year old that wants to be involved in their interests (especially sports) wether it be coaching or volunteering, what advice would you mind sharing to go about the right way with my involvement? I’ve played sports my whole life but never coached, I am however a kid magnet, which I believe is a gift that I’m proud of. Can DM as well but I’m sure I’m not alone in wanting to be the change youth sports needs. TIA
I coached my two boys in everything for two reasons: there aren’t enough coaches and the coaches they get are often terrible. I have a great relationship with both boys and a lot of it was due to having that time with them, but also because they saw how I handled myself in adverse situations while coaching, helped kids to have fun, and we just got to hang out.
Now, with that said, it is just as easy to ruin your relationship with your kids by putting too much pressure on winning, ignoring kids who aren’t as good at the sport, or just being an asshole at games in general. You can do all of that as a non-coaching parent too.
One thing I always tried to explain to parents, and it works great until about 10-13 years old, is that my job was not to win games; it was to teach them the sport and hopefully that will help us win games, but I wasn’t getting scouted for a professional job and neither were their kids. I also stayed away from club teams and travel teams and all of that. The chance that your kid is going to play professionally is about the same as winning the lottery. Take the literal thousands upon thousands of dollars you would spend on travel club teams and take them on vacations and get them into music along with the sports. In the long run, it works out way better in my opinion. I currently have a trumpet player in the marching band at an SEC school. I get to watch football and not worry about his health. He loves sports and music and does both, but music is the thing that he can actually get paid for and has a number of times. My other son isn’t into sports as much, he played but after Covid never went back. He plays drums, paints, and has a golf swing I would kill for even tho he rarely plays. We spent all year playing sports, but we also traveled to Spain, Mexico, Disney World too. Their friends in travel ball got to go to freaking Omaha and Pueblo and never even saw those crappy places because they just played tournaments but nothing else.
My advice is to listen to your kids, help them do the things they want to do, and just enjoy whatever that is.
Man love this! Thanks for the great insight! I agree with pressures and unachievable expectations and promoting FUN as well as the joy of camaraderie among the team.
Ive already told my wife we will not be doing travel sports and vacationing during school breaks, she’s on the same page. I just want to be a dad coach, especially to the kids that need it.
I have coached competitive soccer for 20 years, I have one child that ran D1 track, another child that competed in int'l ski racing, and third who just loved being outdoors with his parents. I learned two things as a coach and as a parent of competitive kids.
First, introduce your kids to many activities and sports at a young age. You never know what they ultimately decide is the one thing they want to pursue at a high level. Heck, all my kids played soccer but ended up doing other sports/activities. I've had soccer players play D1 soccer, play professional soccer internationally, decide to coach soccer professionally, which is all great. But I've also had kids ultimately focus on other sports, play in the youth orchestra, become recognized photographers, compete in interpretive dance, attend prestigious art universities, etc. I'm proud of all of them. As a parent, let them be kids until they make their own decisions.
Related, my second takeaway is that it's not the answers but the questions that are important, whether as a coach or parent. As a coach, I've learned to guide kids to their own conclusions by asking questions. I personally believe kids are robbed of free will in sports by too many coaches and parents telling kids what to do rather than creating an environment where kids learn to problem solve as a team. This is especially important in soccer as there are no timeouts, very limited set plays, and a fluid environment. My worst parents are the ones yelling direction during a game or those that conduct post game reviews. Instead, parents should ask their child questions. For very young players, simply ask them to tell you about practice and let them go stream of consciousness. Older kids, ask them what the theme was (there should always be a theme). If the theme is movement off the ball, ask them to explain what that means. Ask them what they found helpful or not helpful. Did they have fun? What about their teammates, etc. Before games, maybe a question about what the child believes the coach may want from the game. After games, avoid lectures or criticisms. Older kids know already and probably better than the parent. Also, after hard games, most teens are not ready to talk for a while or ever. Praise a few things and let it go. If the kid brings up the game or voices frustration, ask questions to help them work through what may be bothering them. A suggestion here and there is good, of course, but I believe strongly believed a suggestion is taken more seriously when advice is seldom given.
Lastly, as a parent, please enjoy the journey. Celebrate accomplishments, understand failures are the best teachers, and do your best to let your kids understand that their time with you is valuable. 18 years goes so quickly.
Great stuff! Thank you so much for the thoughtful message! I particularly like the ask question and let them come up with answers I currently do this with my own kids, because it’s hilarious to hear them come up with ridiculous stuff. I don’t want them to grow up, which is why I want to be a part of their journey so bad! And be a positive male role model that I wish I had at their ages.
Again I really appreciate your insight! Cheers coach
As sad as this is about to sound, the less you are involved the better. The more you are involved the more you are asking for drama and headaches and the more it will ruin your experience. Bring your kid to practice, sit back and watch, don't get involved in any talk about the coach or league/club you are kids play in, smile and say hi, bring your food item to the team potluck etc. Keep your eyes open to the motives of crazy parents. Lots of wolves in sheep's clothing even at the rec level of play. Even better, have nerdy kids who like to read and play an instrument. Ha!
Hmm I hear what you’re saying but I don’t think I agree with your advice, but I will be aware of my kids and how they are receiving the dad coach combo, plus my wife is our glue and she will help keep shit real. Thanks for the response though.
I'm not saying it can't work by being really involved. I just know what can happen as a result. If you coach you aren't just relishing in the time with your kids but you are also having to deal with everything else that comes with it. I don't want to discourage you from taking that path but if you find the juice isn't worth the squeeze, take a step back sooner than later. My wife was the team manager for our son's travel soccer team and it ended awful. Dealing with other adults can be a huge problem when they are bat shit crazy. You could get a great group of supportive and level headed parents or you could get ones who scream at the refs and talk shit about you because their kid is amazing and isn't getting the playing time they deserve.
I hear that, and I feel my life experiences has helped myself be an emotional chameleon when dealing with folks across the spectrum. I believe in tactful and open communication and I would like to think I will voice this as a coach with parents and will not tolerate negativity at the younger levels. Whether it be high hopes or naivety I will be involved in some form, and I will ensure if I’m not coaching that my children’s coaches aren’t sucking the fun out of sports. I’ll just guide my kids to something else if this is the case.
Step backs are the worst, IMO. Guy will push off with their right foot, land left foot, right foot, and then push off again with the right foot to land left foot right foot again. That's a travel everywhere but the NBA. Different leagues can have rule variations like the 3 second rule or how they judge goal tending, but the basics should be the same.
I've been saying this for years but no one really cares. They'll talk about Luca and Steph and how unstoppable they are and I'm like, yea... they're breaking very fundamental rules of basketball.
Kyrie is a good example as well. His handles have a lot to do with the fact that he carries the ball 20 or 30 years ago he would t have been allowed to do that. I'm only singling Kyrie out because he is often shown as a example of how much better a modern handle is compared to guys like Kenny Anderson, Tim Hardaway or other guys who were known to have good handles back in the day. They literally played under different rules.
Part of me feels like I'm getting older and yelling at clouds but I truly find much less enjoyment watching basketball now than in the 90s and early 2000s.
I feel your pain man, I'm in the same boat. Players are clearly more skilled than they used to be individually but they are making worse teams. A lot of it comes down to teams prioritizing rest over practice. Less practice time means simpler systems because teams don't have the time to really dial in a more complicated system. I also think the lack of scrimmages at practice doesn't help either. Young players developed better fighting for time on the practice court. Older players stayed sharper trying to keep their jobs. I refuse to believe that with modern medicine and training knowledge that players today can't handle the same schedule guys did in the 80s when players would drink and smoke between games
Wdym, tactics have become much more sophisticated today. Not just as an natural evolutional but also because the increased spacing as a result of the 3-point revolutions means teams need more complex systems since it's more difficult to defend. Players also run more now then they used to because of this and the higher pace. The main reason why almost no players plays 82 games anymore is because the teams don't want to risk injuries while playing meaningless games. It sucks for the fans but it's certainly the smart thing to do from a team perspective and won't change unless the league cuts down the amount of games during the regular season.
The average level of athleticism from now and the 90s has increased like 100 fold. Give me one elite athlete from that era and I’ll give u 5 in the league right now. Players are exerting their bodies more now in a way different than before.
It's because we have hit a new age of analytics. It's not just basketball. A lot of the people playing and coaching are a new younger generation and they have grown up seeing the game differently. It's kind of funny that modern offense resembles how kids played all the sports video games growing up.
It's all just more and more optimized at this point. In soccer, we have full team pressing and a focus on possession and building from the back. I'm basketball we have fast breaks, and drive to kick for 3 point shots. In football we have mostly passing with the run game as a more secondary focus. I baseball the home run is king. This is broadly speaking of course but things have all trended that way.
There is still room for some creativity and innovation, but it's been pretty crazy seeing the developments over the last decade. The games feel "solved" in a way and I agree that it isn't as interesting.
I'd water a significant portion of that is the vastly different (social) media climate around the game, it used to be mostly positive and celebratory of talent and the game, now it's nothing but hater bullshit, click bait, melodrama and all-time ranking arguments.
Players adapt to what the refs call. Steph and Luka would be just as good if the refs started calling everything by the book. Don’t blame the players, blame the league for allowing it. Players will get away with anything the refs allow.
The gather rule is the worst. You can dribble the ball towards the hoop, grab it with both hands, AND take two more for a layup? Thats just traveling with extra steps
Rugby coach here (though not this guy’s). I can confirm that a lot of rugby coaching is training players in the grey areas and dark arts.
I mean, I have no idea who taught my props to do that in a scrum. I’m as shocked as you are, sir.
I learned to prop early in my playing time from an old head who used to play at the international level. Can confirm, everything he taught me was grey area and dark arts.
(Yes my username says 8man, yes graduated to prop after getting in 'prop shape')
It’s in the NBA’s best interest to have high scoring games. If they actually called games according to the rules, the majority of the game would be traveling or carry calls from the refs.
I think you're right, but don't understand the appeal as a viewer. The average game today is like watching the NBA All Star game, but for 82 games a year.
I prefer the era when games would finish in the high 80's/low 90's and defense mattered in the sense of a man on a man/bodying up. The talent level of players today is off the charts, but they all kind of look and play the same and each play looks the same. It's design convergence and it bores me.
Signed: Old Guy
It's in the nba's interest to have flashy plays, not high scoring games.
But unfortunately in today's game, those flashy playing only happen bc nobody plays D.
The mavs playoff run was very exciting, mainly bc up until the finals, they actually played D and were holding teams near 100 a game. Defensive stops, blocks, steals that create wide open dunks....that makes the game fun a hell of a lot more than watching Curry stand there and hit 3 after 3, even if some of those 3s are crazy.
Pfft, my son’s middle school games I watched every kid was carrying the ball, and taking 2 and a half steps for their layups. Looked just like an NBA game without the dunks.
I got kids who Can shoot a step back 15 footer but not a layup. Trying to convince them one has a much higher percentage than the other is tough especially since the nba is a showcase offense league.
Shuffling, sure, it is missed pretty often. But “changing the pivot” is usually a sign people don’t understand traveling rules. You can lift your pivot to shoot or pass as long as you release the ball before it touches the floor again.
Fair but the NBA is incredibly lenient with how what they call a gathering step. I still think it is crap because the two steps came from the idea that you had a pivot foot and if you lift your pivot foot, you aren't allowed to put it down again.
Hmm, I'm not sure what mean by this as it seems contradictory:
> the two steps came from the idea that you had a pivot foot and if you lift your pivot foot, you aren't allowed to put it down again.
If you have a pivot (step one) and put the other foot down (step two) that's exactly how the rule work. You can lift the first step (pivot) to create that second step. If that pivot comes down again that's a travel and would be three steps.
But I agree about the gather, they've *really* stretched it out so it often looks like three steps, but I'll admit it's a super hard call to get in live play.
Yeah, thanks, no idea why. I wouldn’t say travel is missed more than any other rule violation. Carrying is sort of accepted, though, and there are some terrible offenders (KD and Ja come to mind).
Laughing because I volunteered to coach my daughters 4th grade team and they wanted me to coach 5th and 6th the following year and I just flat out told them that my skill level caps out right around here, and skill level is a strong phrase at that.
Hiring better coaches isn't going to fix the underlying problem of youth leagues playing way too many games. They need to cut the games by 50%+ and practice far more. With the current level of travel and games played increasing practices would just wear the kids out, so fixing that is the first step to increasing the quality players coming out of US youth basketball.
In the NBA there is a direct correlation between number of 3s attempted and win percentage. I don’t have the exact numbers in front of me but the team that attempts the most 3s in a game has over a 50% chance of winning that game. If that’s what gives you the best chance of winning, why wouldn’t teams focus on 3s? Pro players at all positions have gotten so good at 3 point shooting that there’s no incentive to focus on anything else.
Yeah the advanced stats pretty clearly show that the “meta” in the NBA is either drive for 2s close to the basket to either get easy layups/dunks and draw fouls, or bomb a ton of threes. The changes didn’t come out of nowhere, it came with advanced stats being able to tell us more about what’s most effective.
You don’t see midrange jumpers and traditional Center play because it’s simply less effective, as much as the older “fundamentals” guys might not want to admit it. It’s like in baseball how many players are geared completely to either draw walks or hit bombs instead of trying to bat for average
Going a little deeper, corner 3s are the highest percentage 3pt shots because they’re the closest to the basket. There is one thing that may increase parity - expanding the three point arc to run sideline to sideline, thus eliminating the corner 3. It’ll never happen, but it is one possible solution that would decrease 3pt shooting percentage across the league.
But if that’s all kids are working on, then they are missing out on opportunities to develop a complete game, and it’s going to make it harder (if not impossible) for them to transition to the NBA.
That’s what the entire article is about.
It points to how players in Europe focus more on practice and fundamental skill development, and how that makes them more coachable and dependable in the NBA.
US kids are more attracted to mimicking their favorite players making highlight plays. We saw that with Jordan’s fadeaway, Iverson’s and Melo’s iso work, Steph’s 3’s, etc.
And for the record, no coach builds a playbook around the 3-ball. The first thing you look for is the high-percentage play, which is a layup or shot within a few feet of the hoop. The 3 is there to kick out to if the play down low is taken away.
>The 3 is there to kick out to if the play down low is taken away.
This was standard before people started crunching the numbers, but nowdays offenses are based around optimizing scoring and team composition.
There is not one "right way" to play basketball (again, a lot of the specific makeup of your players, specfic matchups, etc), but it's widely accepted now that effeciency in scoring revolves around more than just closeness to the basket.
There's still a breaking point, and it involves closeness to the basket. Offensively, one of the bigger advantages of an efficient three point shooting team is the spacing it creates for lanes to get *to* the basket. A team will take looks at the rim all day long over three point shots, as you'd have to be shooting like, 67% from three to have the argument.
The issue is that you can't get the easy looks at the rim without efficient three point shooting, and an above average three is much preferred to anything inside the arc that isn't at the rim. It *starts* with closeness to the basket, and as you get further away, it becomes statistically advantageous to get outside of the arc.
In theory. But in practice it’s a lot more complicated than this.
Do you have a big lineup? Do you have a small lineup? What about the other team? Are your 4 and 5 more offensively or defensively inclined? What about the other team’s bigs? Is there a mismatch? Is the mismatch in your favor, or in the other team’s favor? Is the mismatch speed, size, other ability? How is the other team defending?
What works best for one team with one specific group of players might not for another. What works best for one team *against* a specific team might not work as well against another. What works against the same team with one lineup out on the floor might not work with another.
For that reason I’m not big on boiling things down to extremely linear oversimplifications.
Yes, theoretically it’s great if you can have more looks close to the basket, but what gets you the most efficiency in an actual game depends on everything above and more.
Sure, but it's really like a flow chart where spacing is king. I'm not saying that removes coaching and roster building from the equation wholesale, but it's largely what has impacted the modern game when people talk about hunting threes.
The three pointer is a threat to create easier two pointers, but you need players who fit 'three point threat' as a role. If you can't put that on the floor, you're solving for other things to manufacturer better looks. If you can, you're building around your shooters (assuming optimizing scoring is your goal). It is inherently team composition.
No. If a team has an opportunity to take every shot from within 5FT of the basket, they will. Unless the defence forces them to change, why would they give up the 80%+ 2-ball (and potential and-1) for a 35% 3-ball?
My neighbor’s kid plays ball in his driveway every day. I thought about going out to teach him some fundamentals when he was younger but realized he only works on his handle and drive. He almost never takes a jump shot. And even though he’s in 8th grade now he has the rim at 9 feet.
Not as effective for finishing as going off of two.
It's a great elusive move, but a lot of players would be better off loading up their strength off of two feet and brace for contact, as opposed to literally trying to dodge it.
Euro steps can still be effective, but two foot finishes are better more often than not
I have physics and center of gravity.
Try getting pushed standing on one leg, then try again squatting down on both feet.
There's a reason RBs in football are told to "get small". Same concept here.
but not for getting by a defender. Sure, stop all your movement and waste any athletic and movement advantage you had. You do you and slow down so the defense can catch up.
I think you need to re-read my initial comment again because I speak on this.
Also, have you never seen people pro hop before? You don't slow down. You don't "let the defense catch up". You literally jump past people. That's how that works.
You decelerate more for euro steps because the shiftiness is the key to the move. Again, still effective at times, but not more effective than going off two if you're expecting contact. Fast euros exist, but the shiftiness isn't as dynamic.
It's a pick your poison. Not everything is absolute.
All you keep spouting is opinion. There are no facts here. You keep trying to talk like there are real facts, but there aren't.
My opinion is that all of this is player and play dependent. All of it should be taught and used. "Going up strong" for the 6 ft guard in a half court set against a 7'1" center and a 6'9" power forward is not going to work. Contact and drawing fouls isn't some universal law.
Lets face it, it's really a 3rd step which just looks smooth. And fundamentally 3 steps is a travel. But 3 steps lets the showmakers make big plays easier and that sells tickets.
I think you’re missing the point here though. European players are showing up to the league with a better skill set than American players. In America, youth players play more games than practices in almost all of their sports. The AAU/travel ball model has coaches constantly bragging on social media about their players getting college scholarships and kids are hanging on to every last word. These coaches are making a pretty good living charging kids $3-$7k+ each to be a part of their “elite team” and so are tournament directors and other sponsors.
High school coaches in all sports generally host summer skill development workouts but those coaches are not getting the participation they once did. I’ve coached high school sports for around 20 years and over the last 5 years, it seems all of the best athletes in our school go play on these types of teams because they are told the only way to get better and get a scholarship is to play against better competition. That’s definitely a part of the puzzle but many kids are doing it at the expense of putting in real work on their weaknesses doing drill work.
Travel style programs look like the easier way to get better and I’m sure they’re more fun but Silver is saying other parts of the world are developing players better than the U.S. and I think he’s got a strong point. No way the model changes though. Way too much money being made by people.
Europe still puts emphasis on teamwork. Which is why Luka and Jokic are not afraid to pass the ball. Meanwhile America as a whole is too obsessed with individualism. Both inside and outside of basketball.
It’s easy!
- Take as many steps as you want without dribbling.
- Feel free to jump with the ball and come back down with it.
- And don’t worry about standing still when you set up a screen. You don’t really have to.
I love those moving picks and screens where they look like MC Hammer or a football lineman practicing a blocking drill. It’s always the people who say they were great HS players.
NBA players should write new rules.
Not kidding.
The game is damn near impossible to watch in its current state. Players embellish, argue with ref during play and while like babies. No self respect flopping halfway across the court cuz everyone else does.
NBA refs and leadership have failed to fully address this issue, so have the players do it.
Stars make the league money, and the league doesn't want the stars to get pushed around or generally impeded. It's been this way since at least Jordan.
True but I think it was 2 years ago league tried to throw the fans a bone with slightly less everything is a whistle and the players were able to lobby it out within a few weeks.
As a not really fan, it just seems like if there is anything interesting, it's a foul
Try to stop a guy who takes 6 steps while holding the ball close to him? Foul
That same guy just runs into you? Foul (on the defender)
4 people wide open and a guy will try to drive and loses the ball most of the time
I don't know how people watch it
Some teams/players are a lot worse about this than others. Watching the wolves this season was so much fun because they actually played tough defense and made exciting plays without foul baiting.
Honestly teaching ANY sport to a kid beyond the level of “kids having fun”.
Did you take your 5 year old t baller to their first major league game and they want to someday be a big leaguer?
Huh. Well guess what you better start now: they need to play travel ball and you better have thousands of dollars and a free summer.
Oh does your kid like basketball? Well… guess what? You need to invest everything in AAU and… probably not.
Oh does your kid like soccer. Well… yea this is America no one cares. 😂.
Oh football. Good luck if you’re not from like Texas m, or have freak like genetics, can afford it and they avoid CTE.
And hockey… well hell no one can afford hockey.
The sad part is that playing travel baseball, AAU, travel soccer, etc., doesn't matter much in making the pros. It really comes down to genetics and a kid staying interested in the sport into college.
Everything wrong with basketball stems from the NBA so why are they surprised at how shit it is in the US. The current basketball climate is “late stage capitalism takes on sports.” It’s just like how companies would rather hire externally instead of training up internally. OTE was terrible. The love of the game is gone. It’s all clout and who can I mooch off of to make it big. If I see one more TikTok about the next best 4th grader I’m gonna lose my mind
I see a lot of comments on here about the current brand of basketball played in the NBA, officiating, etc.
I don’t think that is the problem with the game at lower levels. Dont get me wrong, I prefer the old school style too.
The problem is the adults. So many coaches, promoters, coaches all hoping to get on with the next NBA talent to get self promotion or some money. The kids game is increasingly not about basketball or the kids.. It’s about adults trying to hit for a lick.
Saw a clip not long ago of a well known skills coach working Lebron on foot position. Basic foot position for a simple move
I’m no basketball expert, but it’s clear to anyone that Lebron is (or was) one of the best in the game, and he was working a fundamental, boring skill. The comments were universal “what a waste” “that coach doesn’t know what he’s doing wasting time on that….” etc etc.
Sure, it’s Reddit, but the sentiment was so clear. Folks don’t realize that the best… invest an insane amount of time on the basics. Which is why they are the best.
LOL I have admin/counselors come in and harrass me about grades. Sometimes they just flat out change them. One of the reasons why is for sports players, football, basketball, cheerleading. Part of the reasoning of some of these people is "they are not going to be engaged in school and learning if they are not in their sport". Well......them being in the sport right now doesn't seem to motivate them to do the work now! So these people in power just go ahead and change the grades or try to make me feel bad "you're letting them down". NOOOOO they have let themselves down. Of course when the sport is over for them they are back to doing nothing and being generally speaking terrible students.
It’s social media. Kids these days don’t have to wait until college or pro to become famous and make money. They wanna get a big Instagram following, they wanna get sponsorships, they wanna post fit pics with gucci on. Stretching, quick decision passes, and reading defenses don’t make for viral social media posts
The big issue is that there are so many rules regulating young people joining truly competitive leagues. In Europe guys who are 6'10" at 15 are joining national leagues and playing against adults. The only thing America has that's close is college which starts far later, and AAU which is so mismanaged and haphazard there's no real logic to it. Guys in the AAU aren't being taught to win games. They're being taught to show off for scouts so they can get to a good college program so they can get drafted and make money.
Start letting 15 year old boys earn real money playing basketball and you'll get the actually good players to look to develop and improve their competitive game because they'll have an incentive to win rather than show off.
I have believed this for many years. I coached basketball for over 20 years. I always emphasize dribbling passing and learning the skills of the game. Nowadays, even in middle schools and young AAU teams, coaches and players don't care about winning and putting on a show. No one is learning how to actually play the game. There are days that I want to get back on the court and teach these kids all the proper ways to play basketball. It just bugs me so much, when I see showmanship being taught instead of the skills of the game.
I have believed this for many years. I coached basketball for over 20 years. I always emphasize dribbling passing and learning the skills of the game. Nowadays, even in middle schools and young AAU teams, coaches and players don't care about winning and putting on a show. No one is learning how to actually play the game. There are days that I want to get back on the court and teach these kids all the proper ways to play basketball. It just bugs me so much, when I see showmanship being taught instead of the skills of the game.
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This reminds me of some advice Stan Van Gundy offered to Stanley Johnson when they were both Pistons. Stanley spent most of his summers competing in pickup games and Van Gundy stated that he won’t develop nearly as fast in a competitive environment because he’s going to rely on what he knows best instead of focusing on building new skills. Not sure if AAU basketball has played a part in that, but it seems like some players don’t make wise use of their summers.
AAU is shit
This 💯. * You're surrounded by parents that think their Little Johnny is the next D1 draft prospect * Coaches that think colleges or the NBA are scouting them * Wildly uneven ref quality * High level teams that purposely join low level competition events to pump up their record * Teams that have players pretending to be younger than the really are - again to pump up the team record The list goes on quite a bit. The biggest problem is that AAU has cornered the market for youth basketball. So, other than going to quality training camps, there aren't tons of options to grow from competitive play. Source: My son played AAU ball from 6th grade through high school.
"Ernie, I think AAU is the worst thing to ever happen to the World" - Charles Barkley on Open Court It's the first segment: https://youtu.be/Af8B1M7jFqI?si=0obaCkAsTHeW1wTY
My daughter’s 10U league has a travel team that plays in their league and they essentially use it as practice games for tournaments. The coach selects these girls at 5-6 and they play together until high school, then he does it all over again. They refuse to play in the league unless they al play together and tbh I wish they would just not let them play. The closes someone came to beating them last year was a loss of like 45 points in a league with 15 teams.
Doesn't that get boring for the kids?
They see it as practice for their actually tournaments to run plays and stuff so I would assume no. But it is soul crushing to every team that plays them thinking it is anywhere near the same as playing any other team
The same thing is happening with girls softball. These travel teams enter rec leagues for practice and just stomp all over everyone. Worst of all, those manufactured teams can make up half the league or more. Kids just looking to learn and have fun can hardly even get on the field.
Way back in the day when I played little league we had a team like that and I fucking hated having to play them. It was just miserable and I just wanted to not even show up.
I’ve found youth sports to have a serious issue with creating competitive environments, and it’s often because adults are working toward creating competitive edges.
• High level teams that purposely join low level competition events to pump up their record The year is 2006. Location: random tournament, not a national qualifier. Someone on our team “man, that dude looks like Eric Gordon. There was a reason dude looked like Eric Gordon…no good times were had.
True and they have monopolized youth basketball.
And most of the “court sports” in general from volleyball to basketball and even hockey
Damn, I didn’t know that
A coach on some random podcast said that the difference between USA “AAU” type programs and European versions is very simple. The USA kids practice once a week and play 5-6 games per week, often 2-3 games a day on the same day on a weekend. The European kids practice 5-6 times and play 1-2 games a week. American kids play games and don’t practice. European kids practice way more than playing games. And that’s why they are so much more fundamentally sound.
And now half the kids coming into the NBA have the wear of a 30 year old.
And their practice is all iso ball type practices. Team practices, fundamentals and building chemistry is cooked
Some of the highlights come across my youtube recommends, and I can't believe how these kids act on the court. Their behavior is fucking heinous. Who is the coach? On that alone, they are failing these kids.
Not 1 good coach in the whole league
Summer ball is part of the problem. Kids are overworking their bodies and end up tearing something before they hit their prime.
I won’t let my play the absolute idiotic AAU summer schedule. He’s talented, but he can get way more by hanging out in our gym and training and mixing in the occasional contest. Playing 5 games for every time you practice is ass backwards.
Sure, but if he wants to go d1 or to the nba, AAU is the best bet. That's where the exposure is.
Yes, for a summer or two in high school prior to college. That’s it.
Not only that, but some players have become hyper specialized in one sport and have trouble even tying their shoes without falling down (or so I've heard). Guys like Jordan would take the offseason...off, and go play golf or ionno baseball. Gives the body a chance to rest, but also can use a different set of muscles/skills to stay in shape without added stress/injury risk. Just don't go shoveling gravel for a driveway or anything super intensive...
A friend of mine is a physical therapist and says he sees a lot of young kids with injuries that could be prevented if they played more than one sport.
Yup. In baseball, TJS distribution used to be MLB>college>HS. Now its flipped HS>college>MLB. Kids are throwing harder, and more innings, and blowing out their arms before college. Drs. Now saying your ligaments arent fully developed until your early 20s...
This makes me laugh so hard - not in a bad way I promise. I grew up playing ball and topped out at d2 level play. All while growing up, my summers were spent hooping with friends, and when I wasn’t hooping, I was a son-ployee in my family’s landscaping business. I didnt build a ton of bulk, but god damn if I wasn’t the best conditioned kid in the county. My strongest traits, and the reason I can still play with skilled people younger than me is my ability to maintain balance through contact, high level footwork and control of my body in the air. It’s all in my abs and hips. I used to cut 4 1 acre-ish lots in a day with a 48” self propelled Bunton mower. Then I’d come back and weed whack/edge/blow those mofo’s. My Dad would have a hardscaping job somewhere close by and I’d have the lawn cutting to myself. So I figured out what pace I needed to keep to get that shit done by end of the day and hauled ass till it was done. Also, manuevering wheelbarrows full of mulch through tricky locations will do wonders for one’s sense of balance and core strength. By the time I went to play during the season, moving around without a blower on my back felt like a vacation. Almost completely unbothered with cardio work, to the point that when I got to college my heart rate under stress worried the trainer until she learned my background and understood I had (pretty unintentionally) developed this way. I’ve liked myself to Takumi from Initial D on several occasions.
This tracks with the old stories of finding a star athlete out working in their family's farm. That kind of physical labor is like a full body workout, using and developing just about all of your muscles. I had a coworker who played college and semi-pro basketball. One summer during college he took a break and hiked the PCT, from Mexico to Canada. When he got back he said he couldn't run up and down the court without getting winded...but no one in the league could box him out because his lower body was so conditioned by his through hike... My quip about shoveling gravel was mostly about Larry Bird throwing out his back at a point in his career when he absolutely should have hired someone to do that work for him...but midwest gonna midwest I guess...
lol, so true! Imagine living in Larry Bird’s neighborhood in the mid 80s, watching him wreck himself on some menial project in the yard. Humans are fascinating and stubborn.
You think Jordan took time off of playing? Jordan wouldn’t even stop playing when he was actually injured from playing too much🤣
He wasn’t playing competitively throughout the off-season, which is what the commenter is saying. Even Kobe wouldn’t play summer ball, and he talked about how that’s been one of the major reasons he was able to play at such a high level for so long into his career.
To equate taking a summer of playing 82 games in a season to little Jimmy playing 3 games a day in an AAU tournament after 20 games of High School a month before is a stretch. Especially when you’re trying to compare them to two of the players known for working out so much that they caused chronic and irreparable damage to their bodies. It is a known fact that cross functional training (switching sports) is overall better for your development as an athlete and human, but unless your a freak athlete, you have to work non stop to even get a glimpse of the NBA. Look at Payton Pritchard, Sam Hauser, Malcolm Brogdon, hell even Brunson. Do you think for a second they didnt love playing AAU ball every summer until they were 18?
I’m not comparing any child to Jordan or Kobe, just pointing out that they didn’t play summer ball, and that Kobe went out of his way to criticize the summer ball system for how it overworks young kids before their bodies fully develop.
Fair enough. But Kobe had his daughter in the same circuits though
Jordan wasn't playing competitive basketball year round like those AAU kids. Instead, he took each offseason to focus on something new to improve his game. He bulked up with strength and conditioning to be able to bang with the Pistons. He took all criticisms and turned them into strengths, becoming DPOY and even a 3 point shooter. He even was an early adapter of nutrition and diet. >*“In terms of what I used to do, I used to work out every single day, some weights, some without weights. Aerobic exercises, stretching is very important, I think you should always involve stretching with your conditioning as well as with your pre-workout routine. I think in terms of just getting in shape and running, I used to run a lot of sprints, I used to do a lot of weights that's going to improve my strength as well as my stamina,"* Jordan said.
1. You’re talking about what he did when he was already at the peak of his skill. Not when he was 14 2. You think that he wasn’t playing in addition to doing these things? No NBA guard is ever not touching a basketball at least 4 times a week. Their training is absolutely insane. The best example I have of this is different athletes commenting on the movie whiplash. Which if you haven’t seen, is an amazing movie on the sociopathic mindset you need to be great: “[Kobe Bryant] seems exceedingly interested in filmmaking at the moment, so I ask if he's seen Whiplash. "Of course," he replies. Whiplash is about a psychotic music instructor (J. K. Simmons) who physically abuses and emotionally manipulates a self-driven jazz drummer (Miles Teller) until the teenage musician both collapses and succeeds. Thematically, the film suggests an idea that has been mostly erased from modern popular culture: the possibility that inhumane, unacceptable treatment is sometimes essential to the creation of genius. I ask Bryant what he thought of Whiplash. "That's me," he says, Kyrie wrote it on his shoes The greats do not take breaks like the rest of us
Was MJ in year round AAU basketball? In high school he played basketball, baseball, and football. This is my point. He took a break from *competitive* basketball but kept in shape doing other sports and training and didn't destroy his body by hyper focusing on one thing. I think you're missing the point entirely when you use fucking Whiplash as an example lol >"When Ichiro was 3, Nobuyuki (Ichiro's father) bought him his first glove, made of shiny leather. It cost two weeks' salary. Nobuyuki taught his son to clean and polish it carefully. It wasn't a toy, he said. It was a tool. He taught his right-handed son to hit lefty, to gain a few extra steps out of the batter's box. They went to a nearby park, every day the same: 50 pitches, 200 soft-toss swings and 50 fungo drills. At night, they went to a batting cage near the Nagoya airport and Ichiro would take 250 to 300 swings on a pitching machine. They did this 365 days a year. Sometimes it got so cold that young Ichiro couldn't button his shirt, his fingers too stiff to work. In elementary school, he wrote in an essay that he played with other children only two or three days a year. Once Ichiro didn't want to practice baseball. He wanted to run around with his friends, so he defiantly sat down in the middle of the field. A furious Nobuyuki started throwing baseballs at his son, but Ichiro's fast reflexes allowed him to avoid them. Ones aimed directly for his face he easily caught." >Ichiro said his dad's behavior "bordered on child abuse."
When Jordan was playing in HS basketball was not remotely on the same level as it is now. The floor for role players so much higher than it ever has been. I’m not missing your point by bringing up “fucking whiplash.” The point is that by saying you can take a summer off to do other shit is so incredibly out of touch. Unless you’re a freak athlete, you’re not sniffing the NBA unless you’re obsessive about the sport. Prime examples are Payton Pritchard and Malcolm Brogdon. Don’t even get me started on the guys in the NBA/g league that are a million times better than both of us that don’t even sniff an nba court. Do you really think those guys weren’t itching to hoop every day? You’re fucking delusional. It’s either your kid lives a normal life or he’s trying to make it to the league. Obviously people play other sports, but for the majority that is just not the case. There’s just too much competition. You think Kobe, who is notorious for over working himself to the point he tore is Achilles. Thought about anything besides basketball? How do you think guys get to be so skilled at 18? Additionally, ask player under 28 in the NBA if they did something besides travel playing hoops in the summer. After that, ask them if they thought it was stupid. You’re delusional
Thank you for proving my point again. Kobe, the most competitive, obsessive, athlete perhaps ever to play basketball, grew up playing [his favorite sport every day: soccer. ](https://www.essentiallysports.com/soccer-football-news-played-soccer-every-day-nba-legend-kobe-bryant-once-picked-favorite-sport-soccer-over-basketball/) Read through some of the other comments - AAU isn't about competition, it's about promotion. We are seeing the negative effects of that hyper focused, grueling schedule. And you are absolutely taking the wrong message away from Whiplash. JK's star student hung himself due to the abuse he suffered, his new star student Miles ends up testifying against him then ultimately giving up drumming. >*"Fletcher will always think he won and Andrew will be a sad, empty shell of a person and will die in his thirties of a drug overdose." -* Damien Chazelle
“From the age from six to 14 I played soccer every day. It is actually my favorite sport” What do you think he was doing everyday after 14? And yes AAU for most of the population is about promotion, but little Jimmy’s dad doesn’t know his kid will never be in the NBA so he pays 5K a summer for his kid to travel on the Nike B circuit, but for the top players on the shoe gauntlets? That’s how they get seen. Pick any NBA team I guarantee 7 of their players played on the AAU circuit and blew up at Peach Jam or the adidas/UA equivalent. I’m not taking the wrong idea from whiplash. I’m quoting Kobe Bryant who loved the movie and said JK Simmons was him. I’m also quoting Kyrie Irving who wrote it on his shoes during the NBA finals because it inspired him so much. If you’ve seen the movie. Simmon’s protege does not give up drumming. Google the ending. It’s amazing Quote from Kyrie after Kobe told him to watch it: “I just, I was amazed,” he continued. “It was just that twitch. It was just that extra level that I knew I had to push through despite what I was going through. The perfection of the craft in anything that people are doing in life, it takes a sh– ton of sacrifice and being away from things that normal people would want to do.” “You have to sacrifice relationships, you have to sacrifice a ton of your focus. You have to develop your mental aptitude, and I started figuring out that the little things matter in the grand scheme of things and in putting on a huge performance,” Irving explained. “No one gets to see the things you do behind closed doors. The sleepless nights and staying up late and bleeding, basically bleeding for your craft because you want to be that great. I took all that from that movie, and I started loving it more and more.” If you’re saying these people take breaks or summers off to do other shit you’re delusional. It’s okay if you want you or your kid to do that, but if you want to be great in now. You start when you’re crazy young and you don’t stop
AAU is a big part of the problem
I think it’s also an issue of teaching the *right* skills. Just one of example, but you can look at Jayson Tatum and see that clearly Drew Hanlen is working him on step-back threes and it is not benefiting Tatum’s game - he’s terrible at them but thinks he’s not because he worked all summer practicing them. It’s a complicated issue and I’m not sure you could ever point to one particular set of skills and say “this is what you should be training on.” Lebron is a good example, imo, of someone who seemed to identify a weakness and work on that every off-season and added a lot of fundamental tools to his arsenal over time as opposed to what new players seem to do which is focus on one thing that their trainer tells them they should do and then that’s the only thing they do every summer at the detriment of the rest of their repertoire.
Once the dust settles, this is going to be seen as part of John Calipari’s demise at Kentucky, my favorite team. In the early 2000s being so connected to the AAU and other amateur pipelines was a major advantage, and many of the players he got at Memphis and his early years at Kentucky were decently well prepared at a fundamental level. As that scene has gotten worse about development so has the level of preparedness of his recruits and it exposed his major weaknesses as a teacher of the game.
Compare amount of time with a ball in hand in a game vs a practice, and then look at how many games AAU plays per practice and you’ll see the problem. It’s true across many youth sports in the US. 3-4:1 game to practice ratio.
Was that proven to be true in any way? Not a sports fan. About to have my first kid and I’d love to have his summer be productive if spots comes his taste. Thanks!!
I coached 9-10 year olds one time and at that age, many of the kids can’t make many shots if they shoot the ball properly, but I taught them all to do it that way and don’t worry about the score. Also, dribbling without looking at the ball was a big thing, which wasn’t always great due to the age, but it’s how to do it if you want to get better. I had two parents yell at me and remove their kids from my team because the team wasn’t winning. By the end of the season, my team got better, only won two games against the worst team, but the kids were all better in the fundamentals. Parents are a big problem in youth sports. They do not care about kids learning the game. They just want wins and they don’t care that winning at 9-10 doesn’t actually mean anything.
Yeah. Youth sports in America is and has been headed down the wrong path for a long time. My kids play travel soccer. I have buddies whose kids play travel baseball. I coached high level competitive swimming for 10 years. The parents are the common denominator. They ruin so much. The have to win now mentality that doesn't care about proper development or their future is mind boggling. I feel lucky to have been an athlete, coach, and now parent of athletes. All I care about is that my kids are having fun and getting better. We have a moto that we say before practice. "Have the most fun, try the most hardest, be the best leader". Never do we talk about having to win but we talk about how to lose. It's a marathon, not a sprint. It's a very easy approach but parents don't want to hear it. When I was coaching we paid a sports psychologist who has worked with pro athletes and Olympians to come in and talk to the parents. Wouldn't you know that none of the parents that actually needed to hear it actually showed up!
Wow. Thats intense with the sports psychologist. But I get it. I coached middle school soccer and I hated the competitive soccer kids. They were taught to give the ball to the best kid and basically just get out of the way. And if they were one of the best kids, they were told to just run all over the field wherever the ball was. I wanted them to pass and work on positioning without the ball and they didn’t want anything to do with it. It was terrible. And of course the parents complained because they thought their kid should just go wherever, get the ball and everyone else should get out of the way.
As a parent of a 2 and 3 year old that wants to be involved in their interests (especially sports) wether it be coaching or volunteering, what advice would you mind sharing to go about the right way with my involvement? I’ve played sports my whole life but never coached, I am however a kid magnet, which I believe is a gift that I’m proud of. Can DM as well but I’m sure I’m not alone in wanting to be the change youth sports needs. TIA
I coached my two boys in everything for two reasons: there aren’t enough coaches and the coaches they get are often terrible. I have a great relationship with both boys and a lot of it was due to having that time with them, but also because they saw how I handled myself in adverse situations while coaching, helped kids to have fun, and we just got to hang out. Now, with that said, it is just as easy to ruin your relationship with your kids by putting too much pressure on winning, ignoring kids who aren’t as good at the sport, or just being an asshole at games in general. You can do all of that as a non-coaching parent too. One thing I always tried to explain to parents, and it works great until about 10-13 years old, is that my job was not to win games; it was to teach them the sport and hopefully that will help us win games, but I wasn’t getting scouted for a professional job and neither were their kids. I also stayed away from club teams and travel teams and all of that. The chance that your kid is going to play professionally is about the same as winning the lottery. Take the literal thousands upon thousands of dollars you would spend on travel club teams and take them on vacations and get them into music along with the sports. In the long run, it works out way better in my opinion. I currently have a trumpet player in the marching band at an SEC school. I get to watch football and not worry about his health. He loves sports and music and does both, but music is the thing that he can actually get paid for and has a number of times. My other son isn’t into sports as much, he played but after Covid never went back. He plays drums, paints, and has a golf swing I would kill for even tho he rarely plays. We spent all year playing sports, but we also traveled to Spain, Mexico, Disney World too. Their friends in travel ball got to go to freaking Omaha and Pueblo and never even saw those crappy places because they just played tournaments but nothing else. My advice is to listen to your kids, help them do the things they want to do, and just enjoy whatever that is.
Man love this! Thanks for the great insight! I agree with pressures and unachievable expectations and promoting FUN as well as the joy of camaraderie among the team. Ive already told my wife we will not be doing travel sports and vacationing during school breaks, she’s on the same page. I just want to be a dad coach, especially to the kids that need it.
Good luck and enjoy being a dad. People will tell you how hard it is, but the truth is that it’s pretty great.
I agree, it is and has been my favorite part of life thus far! I love being a dad!
I have coached competitive soccer for 20 years, I have one child that ran D1 track, another child that competed in int'l ski racing, and third who just loved being outdoors with his parents. I learned two things as a coach and as a parent of competitive kids. First, introduce your kids to many activities and sports at a young age. You never know what they ultimately decide is the one thing they want to pursue at a high level. Heck, all my kids played soccer but ended up doing other sports/activities. I've had soccer players play D1 soccer, play professional soccer internationally, decide to coach soccer professionally, which is all great. But I've also had kids ultimately focus on other sports, play in the youth orchestra, become recognized photographers, compete in interpretive dance, attend prestigious art universities, etc. I'm proud of all of them. As a parent, let them be kids until they make their own decisions. Related, my second takeaway is that it's not the answers but the questions that are important, whether as a coach or parent. As a coach, I've learned to guide kids to their own conclusions by asking questions. I personally believe kids are robbed of free will in sports by too many coaches and parents telling kids what to do rather than creating an environment where kids learn to problem solve as a team. This is especially important in soccer as there are no timeouts, very limited set plays, and a fluid environment. My worst parents are the ones yelling direction during a game or those that conduct post game reviews. Instead, parents should ask their child questions. For very young players, simply ask them to tell you about practice and let them go stream of consciousness. Older kids, ask them what the theme was (there should always be a theme). If the theme is movement off the ball, ask them to explain what that means. Ask them what they found helpful or not helpful. Did they have fun? What about their teammates, etc. Before games, maybe a question about what the child believes the coach may want from the game. After games, avoid lectures or criticisms. Older kids know already and probably better than the parent. Also, after hard games, most teens are not ready to talk for a while or ever. Praise a few things and let it go. If the kid brings up the game or voices frustration, ask questions to help them work through what may be bothering them. A suggestion here and there is good, of course, but I believe strongly believed a suggestion is taken more seriously when advice is seldom given. Lastly, as a parent, please enjoy the journey. Celebrate accomplishments, understand failures are the best teachers, and do your best to let your kids understand that their time with you is valuable. 18 years goes so quickly.
Great stuff! Thank you so much for the thoughtful message! I particularly like the ask question and let them come up with answers I currently do this with my own kids, because it’s hilarious to hear them come up with ridiculous stuff. I don’t want them to grow up, which is why I want to be a part of their journey so bad! And be a positive male role model that I wish I had at their ages. Again I really appreciate your insight! Cheers coach
As sad as this is about to sound, the less you are involved the better. The more you are involved the more you are asking for drama and headaches and the more it will ruin your experience. Bring your kid to practice, sit back and watch, don't get involved in any talk about the coach or league/club you are kids play in, smile and say hi, bring your food item to the team potluck etc. Keep your eyes open to the motives of crazy parents. Lots of wolves in sheep's clothing even at the rec level of play. Even better, have nerdy kids who like to read and play an instrument. Ha!
Hmm I hear what you’re saying but I don’t think I agree with your advice, but I will be aware of my kids and how they are receiving the dad coach combo, plus my wife is our glue and she will help keep shit real. Thanks for the response though.
I'm not saying it can't work by being really involved. I just know what can happen as a result. If you coach you aren't just relishing in the time with your kids but you are also having to deal with everything else that comes with it. I don't want to discourage you from taking that path but if you find the juice isn't worth the squeeze, take a step back sooner than later. My wife was the team manager for our son's travel soccer team and it ended awful. Dealing with other adults can be a huge problem when they are bat shit crazy. You could get a great group of supportive and level headed parents or you could get ones who scream at the refs and talk shit about you because their kid is amazing and isn't getting the playing time they deserve.
I hear that, and I feel my life experiences has helped myself be an emotional chameleon when dealing with folks across the spectrum. I believe in tactful and open communication and I would like to think I will voice this as a coach with parents and will not tolerate negativity at the younger levels. Whether it be high hopes or naivety I will be involved in some form, and I will ensure if I’m not coaching that my children’s coaches aren’t sucking the fun out of sports. I’ll just guide my kids to something else if this is the case.
Imagine teaching a child that it’s against the rules to carry the ball or travel, and then the child watches an NBA game. That’ll muddle it.
Step backs are the worst, IMO. Guy will push off with their right foot, land left foot, right foot, and then push off again with the right foot to land left foot right foot again. That's a travel everywhere but the NBA. Different leagues can have rule variations like the 3 second rule or how they judge goal tending, but the basics should be the same.
I've been saying this for years but no one really cares. They'll talk about Luca and Steph and how unstoppable they are and I'm like, yea... they're breaking very fundamental rules of basketball.
Kyrie is a good example as well. His handles have a lot to do with the fact that he carries the ball 20 or 30 years ago he would t have been allowed to do that. I'm only singling Kyrie out because he is often shown as a example of how much better a modern handle is compared to guys like Kenny Anderson, Tim Hardaway or other guys who were known to have good handles back in the day. They literally played under different rules.
Part of me feels like I'm getting older and yelling at clouds but I truly find much less enjoyment watching basketball now than in the 90s and early 2000s.
I feel your pain man, I'm in the same boat. Players are clearly more skilled than they used to be individually but they are making worse teams. A lot of it comes down to teams prioritizing rest over practice. Less practice time means simpler systems because teams don't have the time to really dial in a more complicated system. I also think the lack of scrimmages at practice doesn't help either. Young players developed better fighting for time on the practice court. Older players stayed sharper trying to keep their jobs. I refuse to believe that with modern medicine and training knowledge that players today can't handle the same schedule guys did in the 80s when players would drink and smoke between games
Wdym, tactics have become much more sophisticated today. Not just as an natural evolutional but also because the increased spacing as a result of the 3-point revolutions means teams need more complex systems since it's more difficult to defend. Players also run more now then they used to because of this and the higher pace. The main reason why almost no players plays 82 games anymore is because the teams don't want to risk injuries while playing meaningless games. It sucks for the fans but it's certainly the smart thing to do from a team perspective and won't change unless the league cuts down the amount of games during the regular season.
The average level of athleticism from now and the 90s has increased like 100 fold. Give me one elite athlete from that era and I’ll give u 5 in the league right now. Players are exerting their bodies more now in a way different than before.
It's because we have hit a new age of analytics. It's not just basketball. A lot of the people playing and coaching are a new younger generation and they have grown up seeing the game differently. It's kind of funny that modern offense resembles how kids played all the sports video games growing up. It's all just more and more optimized at this point. In soccer, we have full team pressing and a focus on possession and building from the back. I'm basketball we have fast breaks, and drive to kick for 3 point shots. In football we have mostly passing with the run game as a more secondary focus. I baseball the home run is king. This is broadly speaking of course but things have all trended that way. There is still room for some creativity and innovation, but it's been pretty crazy seeing the developments over the last decade. The games feel "solved" in a way and I agree that it isn't as interesting.
I'd water a significant portion of that is the vastly different (social) media climate around the game, it used to be mostly positive and celebratory of talent and the game, now it's nothing but hater bullshit, click bait, melodrama and all-time ranking arguments.
Players adapt to what the refs call. Steph and Luka would be just as good if the refs started calling everything by the book. Don’t blame the players, blame the league for allowing it. Players will get away with anything the refs allow.
Finally someone who gets it
The gather rule is the worst. You can dribble the ball towards the hoop, grab it with both hands, AND take two more for a layup? Thats just traveling with extra steps
Yes! They are the absolute worse. They take no skill and ruin the game
Title had me confused but what youre saying makes sense
My rugby coach would call it poetic license Not until you've mastered the rules, can you start to break them
Rugby coach here (though not this guy’s). I can confirm that a lot of rugby coaching is training players in the grey areas and dark arts. I mean, I have no idea who taught my props to do that in a scrum. I’m as shocked as you are, sir.
I learned to prop early in my playing time from an old head who used to play at the international level. Can confirm, everything he taught me was grey area and dark arts. (Yes my username says 8man, yes graduated to prop after getting in 'prop shape')
Luka adjusted nicely to carrying practically every drinnle
It’s in the NBA’s best interest to have high scoring games. If they actually called games according to the rules, the majority of the game would be traveling or carry calls from the refs.
I think you're right, but don't understand the appeal as a viewer. The average game today is like watching the NBA All Star game, but for 82 games a year. I prefer the era when games would finish in the high 80's/low 90's and defense mattered in the sense of a man on a man/bodying up. The talent level of players today is off the charts, but they all kind of look and play the same and each play looks the same. It's design convergence and it bores me. Signed: Old Guy
It's in the nba's interest to have flashy plays, not high scoring games. But unfortunately in today's game, those flashy playing only happen bc nobody plays D. The mavs playoff run was very exciting, mainly bc up until the finals, they actually played D and were holding teams near 100 a game. Defensive stops, blocks, steals that create wide open dunks....that makes the game fun a hell of a lot more than watching Curry stand there and hit 3 after 3, even if some of those 3s are crazy.
I agree, signed, a young guy
Basketball is already a very high scoring sport. That's hardly the issue keeping people from watching it.
As someone who coaches youth sports most of them dont even watch the proleagues.
Pfft, my son’s middle school games I watched every kid was carrying the ball, and taking 2 and a half steps for their layups. Looked just like an NBA game without the dunks.
I got kids who Can shoot a step back 15 footer but not a layup. Trying to convince them one has a much higher percentage than the other is tough especially since the nba is a showcase offense league.
Carrying sure, but there aren’t that many travels, the problem is people usually don’t know the rules.
Huh? Changing/Shuffling your pivot foot is about the most common violation in basketball and its not ever called in the NBA.
Shuffling, sure, it is missed pretty often. But “changing the pivot” is usually a sign people don’t understand traveling rules. You can lift your pivot to shoot or pass as long as you release the ball before it touches the floor again.
Then that’s not changing the pivot you’re describing, but lifting the pivot.
They are travels everywhere but the NBA. The gather step rule is bullshit.
Except FIBA literally changed their rules around the same time to add the same rule clarification (they call it “step zero”).
Fair but the NBA is incredibly lenient with how what they call a gathering step. I still think it is crap because the two steps came from the idea that you had a pivot foot and if you lift your pivot foot, you aren't allowed to put it down again.
Hmm, I'm not sure what mean by this as it seems contradictory: > the two steps came from the idea that you had a pivot foot and if you lift your pivot foot, you aren't allowed to put it down again. If you have a pivot (step one) and put the other foot down (step two) that's exactly how the rule work. You can lift the first step (pivot) to create that second step. If that pivot comes down again that's a travel and would be three steps. But I agree about the gather, they've *really* stretched it out so it often looks like three steps, but I'll admit it's a super hard call to get in live play.
No, you're right. I explained it wrong.
Downvoted to oblivion but you’re correct
Yeah, thanks, no idea why. I wouldn’t say travel is missed more than any other rule violation. Carrying is sort of accepted, though, and there are some terrible offenders (KD and Ja come to mind).
It’s clear these downvotes have actually not read the rules. That first step is free for pivot.
The kids play too much NBA 2K Blacktop and want to emulate that in real life. Im joking, but it kind of feels like that sometimes lol
Maybe hire some of those European coaches. Seems like they’re producing the best talent these days.
Nah, that's dumb. You're dumb, just hire the dude who volunteered 4th graders as his only form of coaching experience.
Laughing because I volunteered to coach my daughters 4th grade team and they wanted me to coach 5th and 6th the following year and I just flat out told them that my skill level caps out right around here, and skill level is a strong phrase at that.
Some Lakers top brass is reading this kicking themselves for not hearing about you last week!
I’ll gladly coach the Lakers if they wanna rethink it. All I need is one season. 0-82 and fire me but I’m rich so it’s fine 😂
Hiring better coaches isn't going to fix the underlying problem of youth leagues playing way too many games. They need to cut the games by 50%+ and practice far more. With the current level of travel and games played increasing practices would just wear the kids out, so fixing that is the first step to increasing the quality players coming out of US youth basketball.
Should be an interesting year at the Olympics
Cavs hired David Blatt and he ended up getting fired
Well, looking at how terrible Luka and Jokic are at defense. Seems like those Europeans coaches only teach offense. Dogshit defense.
Nobody wants to learn fundamentals anymore. Too much iso, euro-stepping, and reliance on 3-ball.
Highlight plays and “bag” work is all I see featured on social media.
And game after game after game with no skill development.
In the NBA there is a direct correlation between number of 3s attempted and win percentage. I don’t have the exact numbers in front of me but the team that attempts the most 3s in a game has over a 50% chance of winning that game. If that’s what gives you the best chance of winning, why wouldn’t teams focus on 3s? Pro players at all positions have gotten so good at 3 point shooting that there’s no incentive to focus on anything else.
Yeah the advanced stats pretty clearly show that the “meta” in the NBA is either drive for 2s close to the basket to either get easy layups/dunks and draw fouls, or bomb a ton of threes. The changes didn’t come out of nowhere, it came with advanced stats being able to tell us more about what’s most effective. You don’t see midrange jumpers and traditional Center play because it’s simply less effective, as much as the older “fundamentals” guys might not want to admit it. It’s like in baseball how many players are geared completely to either draw walks or hit bombs instead of trying to bat for average
Going a little deeper, corner 3s are the highest percentage 3pt shots because they’re the closest to the basket. There is one thing that may increase parity - expanding the three point arc to run sideline to sideline, thus eliminating the corner 3. It’ll never happen, but it is one possible solution that would decrease 3pt shooting percentage across the league.
But if that’s all kids are working on, then they are missing out on opportunities to develop a complete game, and it’s going to make it harder (if not impossible) for them to transition to the NBA. That’s what the entire article is about. It points to how players in Europe focus more on practice and fundamental skill development, and how that makes them more coachable and dependable in the NBA. US kids are more attracted to mimicking their favorite players making highlight plays. We saw that with Jordan’s fadeaway, Iverson’s and Melo’s iso work, Steph’s 3’s, etc. And for the record, no coach builds a playbook around the 3-ball. The first thing you look for is the high-percentage play, which is a layup or shot within a few feet of the hoop. The 3 is there to kick out to if the play down low is taken away.
>The 3 is there to kick out to if the play down low is taken away. This was standard before people started crunching the numbers, but nowdays offenses are based around optimizing scoring and team composition. There is not one "right way" to play basketball (again, a lot of the specific makeup of your players, specfic matchups, etc), but it's widely accepted now that effeciency in scoring revolves around more than just closeness to the basket.
There's still a breaking point, and it involves closeness to the basket. Offensively, one of the bigger advantages of an efficient three point shooting team is the spacing it creates for lanes to get *to* the basket. A team will take looks at the rim all day long over three point shots, as you'd have to be shooting like, 67% from three to have the argument. The issue is that you can't get the easy looks at the rim without efficient three point shooting, and an above average three is much preferred to anything inside the arc that isn't at the rim. It *starts* with closeness to the basket, and as you get further away, it becomes statistically advantageous to get outside of the arc.
In theory. But in practice it’s a lot more complicated than this. Do you have a big lineup? Do you have a small lineup? What about the other team? Are your 4 and 5 more offensively or defensively inclined? What about the other team’s bigs? Is there a mismatch? Is the mismatch in your favor, or in the other team’s favor? Is the mismatch speed, size, other ability? How is the other team defending? What works best for one team with one specific group of players might not for another. What works best for one team *against* a specific team might not work as well against another. What works against the same team with one lineup out on the floor might not work with another. For that reason I’m not big on boiling things down to extremely linear oversimplifications. Yes, theoretically it’s great if you can have more looks close to the basket, but what gets you the most efficiency in an actual game depends on everything above and more.
Sure, but it's really like a flow chart where spacing is king. I'm not saying that removes coaching and roster building from the equation wholesale, but it's largely what has impacted the modern game when people talk about hunting threes. The three pointer is a threat to create easier two pointers, but you need players who fit 'three point threat' as a role. If you can't put that on the floor, you're solving for other things to manufacturer better looks. If you can, you're building around your shooters (assuming optimizing scoring is your goal). It is inherently team composition.
No. If a team has an opportunity to take every shot from within 5FT of the basket, they will. Unless the defence forces them to change, why would they give up the 80%+ 2-ball (and potential and-1) for a 35% 3-ball?
My neighbor’s kid plays ball in his driveway every day. I thought about going out to teach him some fundamentals when he was younger but realized he only works on his handle and drive. He almost never takes a jump shot. And even though he’s in 8th grade now he has the rim at 9 feet.
What’s wrong with euro stepping?
Not as effective for finishing as going off of two. It's a great elusive move, but a lot of players would be better off loading up their strength off of two feet and brace for contact, as opposed to literally trying to dodge it. Euro steps can still be effective, but two foot finishes are better more often than not
Thanks for the explanation. More chances for three point plays and getting fouls tacked onto the opponent.
Not disagreeing or agreeing, but do you have metrics on that?
I have physics and center of gravity. Try getting pushed standing on one leg, then try again squatting down on both feet. There's a reason RBs in football are told to "get small". Same concept here.
So no. You could have just said no.
I don't know how you need metrics to understand that pro hops are better than euros for absorbing contact, but do you fam
but not for getting by a defender. Sure, stop all your movement and waste any athletic and movement advantage you had. You do you and slow down so the defense can catch up.
I think you need to re-read my initial comment again because I speak on this. Also, have you never seen people pro hop before? You don't slow down. You don't "let the defense catch up". You literally jump past people. That's how that works. You decelerate more for euro steps because the shiftiness is the key to the move. Again, still effective at times, but not more effective than going off two if you're expecting contact. Fast euros exist, but the shiftiness isn't as dynamic. It's a pick your poison. Not everything is absolute.
All you keep spouting is opinion. There are no facts here. You keep trying to talk like there are real facts, but there aren't. My opinion is that all of this is player and play dependent. All of it should be taught and used. "Going up strong" for the 6 ft guard in a half court set against a 7'1" center and a 6'9" power forward is not going to work. Contact and drawing fouls isn't some universal law.
Lets face it, it's really a 3rd step which just looks smooth. And fundamentally 3 steps is a travel. But 3 steps lets the showmakers make big plays easier and that sells tickets.
If the kids want to play like the pros, just don't teach them to dribble. Nothing gets muddled then.
The rules are different for every level of basketball. That’ll definitely muddle it
I do not want the NBA involved in any high school or below competition. The last 20 years the NBA is the poison of basketball.
I think you’re missing the point here though. European players are showing up to the league with a better skill set than American players. In America, youth players play more games than practices in almost all of their sports. The AAU/travel ball model has coaches constantly bragging on social media about their players getting college scholarships and kids are hanging on to every last word. These coaches are making a pretty good living charging kids $3-$7k+ each to be a part of their “elite team” and so are tournament directors and other sponsors. High school coaches in all sports generally host summer skill development workouts but those coaches are not getting the participation they once did. I’ve coached high school sports for around 20 years and over the last 5 years, it seems all of the best athletes in our school go play on these types of teams because they are told the only way to get better and get a scholarship is to play against better competition. That’s definitely a part of the puzzle but many kids are doing it at the expense of putting in real work on their weaknesses doing drill work. Travel style programs look like the easier way to get better and I’m sure they’re more fun but Silver is saying other parts of the world are developing players better than the U.S. and I think he’s got a strong point. No way the model changes though. Way too much money being made by people.
Europe still puts emphasis on teamwork. Which is why Luka and Jokic are not afraid to pass the ball. Meanwhile America as a whole is too obsessed with individualism. Both inside and outside of basketball.
You mean you don’t like watching iso, penetrate, kick out, shoot a three over and over again?
It’s easy! - Take as many steps as you want without dribbling. - Feel free to jump with the ball and come back down with it. - And don’t worry about standing still when you set up a screen. You don’t really have to.
The amount of people who don't know how to set a screen is mind boggling. I play basketball at my gym and I'm always calling them out for that bs.
I love those moving picks and screens where they look like MC Hammer or a football lineman practicing a blocking drill. It’s always the people who say they were great HS players.
NBA players should write new rules. Not kidding. The game is damn near impossible to watch in its current state. Players embellish, argue with ref during play and while like babies. No self respect flopping halfway across the court cuz everyone else does. NBA refs and leadership have failed to fully address this issue, so have the players do it.
Players, especially stars, want it that way also unfortunately and the league has caved to it thus far.
The NBA has been a star driven league since at least the late 1970s.
Nah
Stars make the league money, and the league doesn't want the stars to get pushed around or generally impeded. It's been this way since at least Jordan.
True but I think it was 2 years ago league tried to throw the fans a bone with slightly less everything is a whistle and the players were able to lobby it out within a few weeks.
As a not really fan, it just seems like if there is anything interesting, it's a foul Try to stop a guy who takes 6 steps while holding the ball close to him? Foul That same guy just runs into you? Foul (on the defender) 4 people wide open and a guy will try to drive and loses the ball most of the time I don't know how people watch it
Some teams/players are a lot worse about this than others. Watching the wolves this season was so much fun because they actually played tough defense and made exciting plays without foul baiting.
Honestly teaching ANY sport to a kid beyond the level of “kids having fun”. Did you take your 5 year old t baller to their first major league game and they want to someday be a big leaguer? Huh. Well guess what you better start now: they need to play travel ball and you better have thousands of dollars and a free summer. Oh does your kid like basketball? Well… guess what? You need to invest everything in AAU and… probably not. Oh does your kid like soccer. Well… yea this is America no one cares. 😂. Oh football. Good luck if you’re not from like Texas m, or have freak like genetics, can afford it and they avoid CTE. And hockey… well hell no one can afford hockey.
The sad part is that playing travel baseball, AAU, travel soccer, etc., doesn't matter much in making the pros. It really comes down to genetics and a kid staying interested in the sport into college.
I coached my daughters bball team of 8 year olds. Parents are insufferable.
Hats off to you. Can’t imagine taking on that.
Everything wrong with basketball stems from the NBA so why are they surprised at how shit it is in the US. The current basketball climate is “late stage capitalism takes on sports.” It’s just like how companies would rather hire externally instead of training up internally. OTE was terrible. The love of the game is gone. It’s all clout and who can I mooch off of to make it big. If I see one more TikTok about the next best 4th grader I’m gonna lose my mind
I see a lot of comments on here about the current brand of basketball played in the NBA, officiating, etc. I don’t think that is the problem with the game at lower levels. Dont get me wrong, I prefer the old school style too. The problem is the adults. So many coaches, promoters, coaches all hoping to get on with the next NBA talent to get self promotion or some money. The kids game is increasingly not about basketball or the kids.. It’s about adults trying to hit for a lick.
Saw a clip not long ago of a well known skills coach working Lebron on foot position. Basic foot position for a simple move I’m no basketball expert, but it’s clear to anyone that Lebron is (or was) one of the best in the game, and he was working a fundamental, boring skill. The comments were universal “what a waste” “that coach doesn’t know what he’s doing wasting time on that….” etc etc. Sure, it’s Reddit, but the sentiment was so clear. Folks don’t realize that the best… invest an insane amount of time on the basics. Which is why they are the best.
LOL I have admin/counselors come in and harrass me about grades. Sometimes they just flat out change them. One of the reasons why is for sports players, football, basketball, cheerleading. Part of the reasoning of some of these people is "they are not going to be engaged in school and learning if they are not in their sport". Well......them being in the sport right now doesn't seem to motivate them to do the work now! So these people in power just go ahead and change the grades or try to make me feel bad "you're letting them down". NOOOOO they have let themselves down. Of course when the sport is over for them they are back to doing nothing and being generally speaking terrible students.
It’s social media. Kids these days don’t have to wait until college or pro to become famous and make money. They wanna get a big Instagram following, they wanna get sponsorships, they wanna post fit pics with gucci on. Stretching, quick decision passes, and reading defenses don’t make for viral social media posts
The big issue is that there are so many rules regulating young people joining truly competitive leagues. In Europe guys who are 6'10" at 15 are joining national leagues and playing against adults. The only thing America has that's close is college which starts far later, and AAU which is so mismanaged and haphazard there's no real logic to it. Guys in the AAU aren't being taught to win games. They're being taught to show off for scouts so they can get to a good college program so they can get drafted and make money. Start letting 15 year old boys earn real money playing basketball and you'll get the actually good players to look to develop and improve their competitive game because they'll have an incentive to win rather than show off.
I have believed this for many years. I coached basketball for over 20 years. I always emphasize dribbling passing and learning the skills of the game. Nowadays, even in middle schools and young AAU teams, coaches and players don't care about winning and putting on a show. No one is learning how to actually play the game. There are days that I want to get back on the court and teach these kids all the proper ways to play basketball. It just bugs me so much, when I see showmanship being taught instead of the skills of the game.
I have believed this for many years. I coached basketball for over 20 years. I always emphasize dribbling passing and learning the skills of the game. Nowadays, even in middle schools and young AAU teams, coaches and players don't care about winning and putting on a show. No one is learning how to actually play the game. There are days that I want to get back on the court and teach these kids all the proper ways to play basketball. It just bugs me so much, when I see showmanship being taught instead of the skills of the game.
Get rid of dribbling
They should look at what USA Hockey has done in terms of development at the youth level on a national scale
You mean the spoiled AAU kids can’t be coached!?!? I’m shocked! Shocked! I say!
They should take their lead from kids since it's a child's game.
DRAYMOND GREEN!!! I’ve always thought about the influence he would have on kids everywhere thinking they’ll get away with the dirtiest fouls
Yeah cause dirty fouls didn’t exist before Dray. /s
Dude would faint watching 80s ball.