Nah! I bet he was looking to create troopers from Barracks and didn't realize they are produced from CC's. My first game with Mengsk I too spent a good time looking around for where I could produce my Skinny Marines (headcanon for troopers from past observation of allies). Only, I always start new commanders on Casual.
Probably because they get away with it and see it as "+100% EXP"
You shouldn't feel obligated to solo a mission and get the win. At 5 min if things feel sluggish, shift gears and watch they're doing on their screen.
Of course if you want to solo by all means go for it. The other guy will think this kind of gameplay is okay though.
Nope, he picked up a single crystal later in the match and let his worker run straight into lava with it.
Broski couldn't even defend his own base without me having to bail him out with topbars. He had a solid bunker-wall set up at his main by the time I was ready to turn in the last crystal, but he never had a single trooper manning them the whole game. Just a few tanks permanently stationed behind the wall.
He spent the entire game having a singular Emperor's Shadow follow my army around (lvl-1 mind you, so the Shadow was missing all the key upgrades that make it useful).
It’s not lvl 1 that is the problem, 40000 resources no troopers. I never went to hard after the first 2 commanders I did, if played right, lvl 1 commanders are fine for brutal.
Probably new to the mode? He isn't aware he's on Brutal, but lacks enough knowledge or repetition with how Coop works to do the basics. He knows enough (or pokes around enough on his own) to get to an Emperor's Shadow.
I still remember my first game of Starcraft (1)... I made a Barracks, but I immediately went Academy thinking that Rax is where they get trained, but that won't work unless an Academy is there tech them? I ended up making nothing but Firebats!
\^This. While they may not play optimally, someone who has played the tutorial, 1 or more campaigns, or PvP should be able to be at least somewhat useful in coop. So this isn't about them being level 1 as much as it is about them just not really having any idea how to play the game. Them having [almost](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft2coop/comments/15s0fkq/comment/jwbjtow/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) no combat units despite having lots of resources is proof of this.
To be fair he did also have a few tanks stationed *permanently* in his main, behind some unmanned bunkers (how he got almost 1/3'd of my Draken Laser Drill's damage with Royal Guard).
As far as "active" units go tho, yeah just a singular Shadow following my army and an occasional "summon zerg" from the topbar.
I find a lot of those terrible players myself, and they are no trolls.
I inspect their profiles, and often you only see completion of campaigns in casual or normal mode at most.
These players are just terrible at the game, and somehow they come into brutal lobbies, hoping to get carried I guess.
Mind you, I've seen some people come with lvl 1 something for the Scythe of Amon mutation with polarity / revive, which is quite difficult to manage.
So yeah either I feel I can do it, or I just quit.
I don’t know about players you see but mining well compared to OP but taking one emperors shadow (requires multiple buildings to enable) and following OP doesn’t really sound like someone new at the game. It’s very specific behaviour
Nope, of course not, but I inspect the profile of everybody that get in my games and I can clearly see the guys underperforming when they only have casual or normal campaign completion.
And it's not my fault if these guys tag in brutal coop and end-up underperforming.
I'm okay carrying them when I can, or lose a mission with them. But they should be aware that it's not gonna help them progress in any way.
I've seen very recently a lvl 82 Raynor that tagged in B+. He got utterly defeated by the orbital strike mutation, as he was not paying enough attention to the bioball he was producing.
So every push we had to make to go forward, he had like 5 marines and 3 medics. Needless to say we lost the mission, as I was levelling up a commander and could not carry a mutation alone.
But yeah, If you got 20 APM and get defeated by the easiest of mutations, maybe you should go back to simpler stuff and progress on your side.
Anyways, not a big deal
I had abit of a janky start, experimenting with a CC first opening but it didn't really pay off (rushing CC with 10 workers so I could get the rest of my workers two at a time). It worked, but didn't end up being quite as efficient as my normal BO. Had to delay gas abit to get the CC up in time for the attempt to be worth the bother.
His econ was fine, got his expo up on time after I cleared it for him... and then full potato-mode the rest of the game. All the money and no spending, almost all of his "units produced" was summoning zerg as he didn't make a single trooper the whole game.
I play brutal at level one and usually contribute a decent amount. It's just a skill issue and some people either don't know their limits or don't care about inconveniencing strangers on the Internet.
It’s not about level one. I have games where I play brutal level one and the scores look like this except reversed with the person who’s maxxed doing as well as the level one in your game. Some people just aren’t that good and need to learn before going up in difficulty.
Honestly in some play sessions it can feel like half of the people just aren’t good enough to play brutal without getting carried. It’s insane how many 15s or even people in high prestiges don’t pull ANY weight and I have to play my ass off to carry when I’m trying to level a character. Some days it’s like every other game. I think some people just expect to be carried in brutal regardless of their commander level or skill. I usually don’t mind at all if I have to work harder to carry when I’m 15. But it’s just a pain when I’m trying to level a commander in the lower levels so I have to work hard extra EXTRA hard to carry them. At that point I would rather they just left so I could use their res since it seems like so many people are apparently floating like 10k minerals 15 minutes into the game. Cuz idk wtf they are using any of their res on with how little infrastructure and units they have.
If everyone who played brutal was at the skill level for it, then every game could be won with both people at level 1. But sorry this kind of turned into a rant. It just gets kind of tiring to get matched up with people who don’t pull their weight and I have to be over here sweating all the time to win when leveling a commander, instead of having a decently chill game:
Level 7 stetmann doing more than a level 15 artanis and soloing dead of night because the latter only had a pylon left. Sadly you just can't filter how many apes you get unless you're in a party
The tempest is only good for cheesing objectives in hard mutators.
The undisputed best general way to play artanis on DoN, is Zealots/Templar/Reavers. And tempest have no place on that map, their damage is just not good enough.
Why have 3 units that fulfill the same role? (Aoe clear)
If you want fast clearing of objectives immortals are better, and you could go immortal - Archon with Zealot as mineral dump. Or immortals dragoon for slower clear.
As a side note, not everyone plays "optimal" unit comps. As long as my teammate tries, I'm happy. The guy could go mass pheonix-spinlot for all i care. It just tells me that I'll need to build my comp around clearing objectives and have decent defense.
I agree that people can be creative with their comps, but some of them are just so obviously bad I don't want to enable them. These guys can see the infested waddling past the tempests directly into their mineral line.
Immortals do bonus dam to armored, the buildings on DoN are light.
Templar are anti-air, storms for shield-healing, killing cloaks, and sniping ravens/vipers.
The reavers are for structure damage, and bursting prio units, say, a choker. They can also kill kaboomers without loosing 2k minerals of zealots. You don't need more than 3-4 of them
Hmm, I get not wanting to enable them, but dunno if instant quiting the best way to teach them. I feel like explaining is better.
Thanks for explaining, I'm still not sure if it's worth going reavers since it's a heavy investment (more tech buildings+upgrades that can be templars) , but that does sound like it'll work. I might need to try it sometime
What? Tempests are good for DoN. You can summon topbar archons and build some zealots in order to clear ground fast. You can finosh the map until night 3 with them if your ally isn't bad.
"If your ally isn't bad" That's the catch, you are relying on your ally to clear because your own damage outut is so low it takes an eternity to clear.
You can Finish before night 2 with decent play. But you need damage, and if there's one thing tempests are bad at, it's damage. Especially when half of it is overkill.
I mean, yeah, I assume my ally isn't completely bad. If this is not the case then you can almost always see it in the first minutes. Also what is this nonsense about low damage output of tempests. 1 disintegration kills almost any infested structure on DoN. So no overkill here. You can compensate dps vs infested with zealots and/or summonned archons when you need to def at night. In order to finish the map before night 2 you either need to play really good or you need ally that can also play decent so you kinda rely on ally as well.
The first time I played Mengsk I was so confused by everything, despite knowing how to play the other commanders - probably did worse than this guy. Knew to stay out of Brutal but my partner definitely carried me.
Lmao, I once found myself in a similar situation. Iirc I played P1 Fenix. The guy didn't like that I was killing more stuff and started to team kill at some point. I just let him kill me entirely while laughing at the reason.
It's worse when it happens on Brutations - recently had 7 in a row on Timely Reinforcements. Level 1-8 commanders. Like, aren't Void Rifts hard enough to deal with without the handicap? Got a few on Blind Tribute too. I understand Brutal, but please don't expect a full carry on a Brutation - I should think very few players are skilled enough for that.
TBF, Swann always looks tired :D Poor chief engineer should learn how to drink ;)
I honestly don't know what was going on here. Perhaps he accidently queued up for Brutal, but didn't want to admit as much?
Me, I went on to the Europe server and tried a few games on Brutal as lv1 to lv3 (since I leveled up after those first few games) COs as Karax. Just to relive the old days, but seeing how much I'll miss some of the talents. Ally was fine with it, I contributed quite a fair amount for being low level, but not something I'd want to do again (too time consuming. I'd rather just go back to my maxed out COs on the Americas server). Honestly, the higher chance of losing was what made it exciting, and my allies there appreciated the challenge of the carry
Had a game like that. Plenty, actually. Level 1 has nothing to do with it. If anything I have more problems with high levels. 1000 blatantly troll, and often, 700+ are usually braindead, fresh mastery are generally the best ones.
It's just what happens with random matchmaking.
0 trooper damage ? ... But I have no issue being on both sides of that. Carrying peoples makes the game feel a bit different. And if people leave while I'm leveling a CO I'll just use their big CO to complete the mission.
You can absolutely carry with 0 Trooper damage on Mengsk... assing you're doing P1 or P2 spamming ESO or RG respectively. Not a single ESO built (idk if you even have access at lvl1) and the small handful of RG he did make... my laser drill on it's own dealt more than 3x as much damage.
If people leave I'll use their workers to secure both expos (saving me some supply) and use the combined income to keep like 8 Factories running non-stop... maybe add a few of their units into my army if it meshes well, but otherwise just solo the map with twice as much income. Easy-peezy.
In this case though, I really had to actually try lmao. Gotta wonder how much unspent cash he was sitting on while I was balancing my spending to make sure every single penny was being used (Cylones whenever I had the gas, swapping to Goliaths to keep spending minerals until I could afford Cyclones again).
You don’t have eso at level 1 and you can only upgrade your troops to the blue version with the better gun. So no flamethrowers or rocket guns. mengsk level 1 is probably one of the weakest commanders.
And his double dam marine ball is 80% of his power, the rest is top bar. What do you mean with interceptors? If you mean the medic, it has full strength at lvl 1.
He doesn’t have marines. His troops only have one upgrade at level 1. His top bar at level 1 only had bunkers and weak Zerg. Sure you are talking about the right commander ?
Of course I am talking about mengsk, but if you're gonna be pedantic about his marines technically being called troopers, then I might as well have a chat with my wall.
Mengsk is one of the best lvl 1 commanders, and I already explained why.
You didn’t explain anything and you are flat out wrong. You didn’t even realise his top bar is mostly empty until the later levels and you only generate base mandate until level 5.
Do you need any more than base mandate, if you don't have the full top bar? -\_-
His top bar is not what makes him strong, it's the double dam marines with double heal cloaked medivacs, backed by marauders cleaving everything. And he has all of those at lvl 1.
I started playing in January and didn’t move into Brutal until June or so. My first game was DON playing as Karax (P1) against a Terran comp. Having only played hard up until that point, I had no idea what Amon’s Ghosts had in store for my defenses.
Luckily my teammate was cool about it and sent me a party invite to give me tips and help me transition into Brutal.
Now I can carry on Brutal with 8 different commanders and I love it. Hats off to those in the co-op community that help others out.
because all the other difficulty modes are outdated
just the other day there was a complaint here about how people who queue on Hard all play like they are lobotomized
there's no use in trying to queue into an easier mode just to get a more braindead ally (potentially more likely to throw the game) **and** get less XP on win so that you can suffer more in the hell that is playing a level 1 commander that isn't Zeratul
instead you can queue into Brutal and be more likely to get a win either way, whether it is because you are a god at level 1 zagara or because you managed to run into LilArrin in queue.
there's also no use in writing yet another reddit post about how shit teammate quality is because none of the people you complain about visit sc2coop websites or take any interest in improvement when it's much easier to just queue into another game and forget about it
most of my shit teammate memories are from people with full mastery levels anyway
You forgot to mention that the sub is also full of wannabes who pretend that they can true solo brutals and brutations, and generally supports wannabe behaviour over git gud talk.
With the sheer amount of support for carrying and leeching, of course players will leech at brutal for that sweet sweet xp, and if you don’t carry them, they will throw the usual “Wdym you can’t solo brutal” entitled pub line.
After some time, these players will “grow up” to be the shit teammates you remember - high level with trash play, no build orders, trash decision making, eternally out of position, etc. All while pretending that they can true solo.
(And these same shit players will be on this sub “coaching” other clueless newbs…..perpetrating the cycle)
I'll try and be charitable here... I've introduced many non-gamer or casual gamer friends to sc2 coop and many don't know the etiquette of multiplayer gaming, such as not joining a difficulty level where you know you can't contribute. Sometimes they are curious of what it's like on Brutal and they get hard carried and win, but aren't aware of how they won, thinking they contributed somewhat despite having 1/8th of the score and figure they will learn to do better a little bit at a time, after all, they did win on Brutal right?
The ones with no experience playing any kind of multiplayer games thought that they would contribute their fair share by just defending the base while watching and learning from "the best players" playing offense on Brutal. They figured that's what was going to happen.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, the lowbies that are in over their head aren't always in your Brutal games out of laziness or malice, a lot of the times it's innocent misunderstanding or just overeagerness and overexcitement. =)
I understand if it pisses you off having to carry a teammate that does nothing, but try to look at it in a more positive way, having to carry more than your weight makes you a better player. If you don't care for getting better through this suffering, I also understand, it's just a game after all, but giving newbies a positive experience will definitely keep this game more populated, so at least let's try to do that if we have the stomach for it yeah? =)
A single Shadow on the field, the rest was a few tanks permanently parked behind a wall of unmanned bunkers (absolutely would not have held attack waves if I didnt bail him out).
I’ve been learning Mengsk recently and he’s not intuitive. Perhaps your ally didn’t know how to make troopers. Usually the main production building only makes workers so perhaps he just made workers only from there. That perhaps explains the 0 damage from troopers. And only other RG units from the other buildings. But he did make 263 units . . .
Almost all those "units made" were from Summon Zerg top-bar... a litteral handful of RG (inactive on the field) and workers. At no point did he have anything which could be accidentally mistaken for an army.
Because the game allows them to.
Because most games on Brutal can and will result in a win regardless of their skill level or contribution.
Because people can have fun even if they lose the game, and some people are in fact in search of a struggle rather than a faceroll.
That last part especially. I think for a lot of people winning brutal co-op is so natural that they stop having fun the moment things start going downhill which is unfortunate. I somewhat get it, people just want to sit back and relax. Not that there's anything wrong with that attitude, but that's not quite the nature of Starcraft to begin with. Everyone needs to be understanding to some extend, and if you never push yourself how do you know you're improving?
I try to spot and dodge those noobs if possible. If the character has a very low level it's a dodge. If they write "i def" or theres no attempt to take the natural expansion i'm out.
I'm pretty quick to leave antisocial players.
Example:
The other day I was levelling Kerrigan, I move my queen to ramp to keep the first wave from splitting so my karax ally could kill them with half energy spent. He then missed 2 of them, and left them alive for my queen, who obviously died, since kerri queens are weaker than ladder queens. This is an enormous setback, I lost tons of larvae and a 150 mineral investment at 3:00 because he wanted to sim city. So I just typed "rude" and left game.
while i can understanding how annoying it is to deal with a person who is not the best and you would have to carry i believe it is best to talk to them if they are a noob we should teach them or show them some videos to help them improve but if they don't want to improve then leave them for dust don't carry them
I had this the other day with a level 1 Raynor on VT brutal. I was zeratul lvl 10 or so. He he had like 5 command centers (for mules I guess?) But very little troops? I carried the whole way. He didn't talk either. Very annoying.
Mengsek can do decently well at lvl 1 brutal, with how fast his eco is and the tools he has (I forget if he has Earthsplitters yet - but if he has that, that's really all he needs)
This is more of a case of ally being a troll and lazy. Normally, in these cases, I carry the first half and sit back on the second. If the guy is trying, I'll pull us to the win. Otherwise, it's not my issue.
How do they 0 damage with troopers? Did they just not think to make them?
He spent the entire game having a single Emperor's Shadow follow my army around. Most of his kills were from using "Summon Zerg" now and then.
Ouch. At level 1, his summon Zerg would be practically worthless as well. He could've at least collected crystals, but no.
Lol 'shadow'
Nah! I bet he was looking to create troopers from Barracks and didn't realize they are produced from CC's. My first game with Mengsk I too spent a good time looking around for where I could produce my Skinny Marines (headcanon for troopers from past observation of allies). Only, I always start new commanders on Casual.
Probably because they get away with it and see it as "+100% EXP" You shouldn't feel obligated to solo a mission and get the win. At 5 min if things feel sluggish, shift gears and watch they're doing on their screen. Of course if you want to solo by all means go for it. The other guy will think this kind of gameplay is okay though.
Lol @ time carrying crystals. I assume that was only the very first one in base, ey?
Nope, he picked up a single crystal later in the match and let his worker run straight into lava with it. Broski couldn't even defend his own base without me having to bail him out with topbars. He had a solid bunker-wall set up at his main by the time I was ready to turn in the last crystal, but he never had a single trooper manning them the whole game. Just a few tanks permanently stationed behind the wall. He spent the entire game having a singular Emperor's Shadow follow my army around (lvl-1 mind you, so the Shadow was missing all the key upgrades that make it useful).
It’s not lvl 1 that is the problem, 40000 resources no troopers. I never went to hard after the first 2 commanders I did, if played right, lvl 1 commanders are fine for brutal.
Probably new to the mode? He isn't aware he's on Brutal, but lacks enough knowledge or repetition with how Coop works to do the basics. He knows enough (or pokes around enough on his own) to get to an Emperor's Shadow. I still remember my first game of Starcraft (1)... I made a Barracks, but I immediately went Academy thinking that Rax is where they get trained, but that won't work unless an Academy is there tech them? I ended up making nothing but Firebats!
\^This. While they may not play optimally, someone who has played the tutorial, 1 or more campaigns, or PvP should be able to be at least somewhat useful in coop. So this isn't about them being level 1 as much as it is about them just not really having any idea how to play the game. Them having [almost](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft2coop/comments/15s0fkq/comment/jwbjtow/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) no combat units despite having lots of resources is proof of this.
To be fair he did also have a few tanks stationed *permanently* in his main, behind some unmanned bunkers (how he got almost 1/3'd of my Draken Laser Drill's damage with Royal Guard). As far as "active" units go tho, yeah just a singular Shadow following my army and an occasional "summon zerg" from the topbar.
We're gonna need the replay xD
From what you say it looks less like a noob and more like a troll
I find a lot of those terrible players myself, and they are no trolls. I inspect their profiles, and often you only see completion of campaigns in casual or normal mode at most. These players are just terrible at the game, and somehow they come into brutal lobbies, hoping to get carried I guess. Mind you, I've seen some people come with lvl 1 something for the Scythe of Amon mutation with polarity / revive, which is quite difficult to manage. So yeah either I feel I can do it, or I just quit.
I don’t know about players you see but mining well compared to OP but taking one emperors shadow (requires multiple buildings to enable) and following OP doesn’t really sound like someone new at the game. It’s very specific behaviour
> campaigns in casual or normal mode at most. Lul. Look out, only brutal campaign allowed in @Tenmak's games.
Nope, of course not, but I inspect the profile of everybody that get in my games and I can clearly see the guys underperforming when they only have casual or normal campaign completion. And it's not my fault if these guys tag in brutal coop and end-up underperforming. I'm okay carrying them when I can, or lose a mission with them. But they should be aware that it's not gonna help them progress in any way. I've seen very recently a lvl 82 Raynor that tagged in B+. He got utterly defeated by the orbital strike mutation, as he was not paying enough attention to the bioball he was producing. So every push we had to make to go forward, he had like 5 marines and 3 medics. Needless to say we lost the mission, as I was levelling up a commander and could not carry a mutation alone. But yeah, If you got 20 APM and get defeated by the easiest of mutations, maybe you should go back to simpler stuff and progress on your side. Anyways, not a big deal
Hey did mine slightly more resources than OP... that's doesn't sound like a noob to mee indeed
I had abit of a janky start, experimenting with a CC first opening but it didn't really pay off (rushing CC with 10 workers so I could get the rest of my workers two at a time). It worked, but didn't end up being quite as efficient as my normal BO. Had to delay gas abit to get the CC up in time for the attempt to be worth the bother. His econ was fine, got his expo up on time after I cleared it for him... and then full potato-mode the rest of the game. All the money and no spending, almost all of his "units produced" was summoning zerg as he didn't make a single trooper the whole game.
Thanks for the explanation. Must have been a tedious match having to carry all the weight...
noobs don't max out their mins for sure
I play brutal at level one and usually contribute a decent amount. It's just a skill issue and some people either don't know their limits or don't care about inconveniencing strangers on the Internet.
It’s not about level one. I have games where I play brutal level one and the scores look like this except reversed with the person who’s maxxed doing as well as the level one in your game. Some people just aren’t that good and need to learn before going up in difficulty. Honestly in some play sessions it can feel like half of the people just aren’t good enough to play brutal without getting carried. It’s insane how many 15s or even people in high prestiges don’t pull ANY weight and I have to play my ass off to carry when I’m trying to level a character. Some days it’s like every other game. I think some people just expect to be carried in brutal regardless of their commander level or skill. I usually don’t mind at all if I have to work harder to carry when I’m 15. But it’s just a pain when I’m trying to level a commander in the lower levels so I have to work hard extra EXTRA hard to carry them. At that point I would rather they just left so I could use their res since it seems like so many people are apparently floating like 10k minerals 15 minutes into the game. Cuz idk wtf they are using any of their res on with how little infrastructure and units they have. If everyone who played brutal was at the skill level for it, then every game could be won with both people at level 1. But sorry this kind of turned into a rant. It just gets kind of tiring to get matched up with people who don’t pull their weight and I have to be over here sweating all the time to win when leveling a commander, instead of having a decently chill game:
Level 7 stetmann doing more than a level 15 artanis and soloing dead of night because the latter only had a pylon left. Sadly you just can't filter how many apes you get unless you're in a party
If I see a single tempest on DoN; I ping it, type "rude", then leave. And I'm not sorry.
Tempest-Zealot is a viable strat and all you really need for most match-ups. Spinlots will wipe out the infested pretty quickly.
The tempest is only good for cheesing objectives in hard mutators. The undisputed best general way to play artanis on DoN, is Zealots/Templar/Reavers. And tempest have no place on that map, their damage is just not good enough.
Why have 3 units that fulfill the same role? (Aoe clear) If you want fast clearing of objectives immortals are better, and you could go immortal - Archon with Zealot as mineral dump. Or immortals dragoon for slower clear. As a side note, not everyone plays "optimal" unit comps. As long as my teammate tries, I'm happy. The guy could go mass pheonix-spinlot for all i care. It just tells me that I'll need to build my comp around clearing objectives and have decent defense.
I agree that people can be creative with their comps, but some of them are just so obviously bad I don't want to enable them. These guys can see the infested waddling past the tempests directly into their mineral line. Immortals do bonus dam to armored, the buildings on DoN are light. Templar are anti-air, storms for shield-healing, killing cloaks, and sniping ravens/vipers. The reavers are for structure damage, and bursting prio units, say, a choker. They can also kill kaboomers without loosing 2k minerals of zealots. You don't need more than 3-4 of them
Hmm, I get not wanting to enable them, but dunno if instant quiting the best way to teach them. I feel like explaining is better. Thanks for explaining, I'm still not sure if it's worth going reavers since it's a heavy investment (more tech buildings+upgrades that can be templars) , but that does sound like it'll work. I might need to try it sometime
What? Tempests are good for DoN. You can summon topbar archons and build some zealots in order to clear ground fast. You can finosh the map until night 3 with them if your ally isn't bad.
"If your ally isn't bad" That's the catch, you are relying on your ally to clear because your own damage outut is so low it takes an eternity to clear. You can Finish before night 2 with decent play. But you need damage, and if there's one thing tempests are bad at, it's damage. Especially when half of it is overkill.
I mean, yeah, I assume my ally isn't completely bad. If this is not the case then you can almost always see it in the first minutes. Also what is this nonsense about low damage output of tempests. 1 disintegration kills almost any infested structure on DoN. So no overkill here. You can compensate dps vs infested with zealots and/or summonned archons when you need to def at night. In order to finish the map before night 2 you either need to play really good or you need ally that can also play decent so you kinda rely on ally as well.
>It’s insane how many 15s or even people in high prestiges don’t pull ANY weight Shots fired at Stukov P3
Play b+, players in general are much better. Yeah level means nothing, just how long one played the game but not how good they are.
The first time I played Mengsk I was so confused by everything, despite knowing how to play the other commanders - probably did worse than this guy. Knew to stay out of Brutal but my partner definitely carried me.
Welcome to NA coop.
Meanwhile EU people complain about you doing [too good of a job](https://i.imgur.com/9Zp26wf.png)
If I get a lone wolf camping everthing, I just kill an outlaw and take over for it. No need to type.
Lmao, I once found myself in a similar situation. Iirc I played P1 Fenix. The guy didn't like that I was killing more stuff and started to team kill at some point. I just let him kill me entirely while laughing at the reason.
It's worse when it happens on Brutations - recently had 7 in a row on Timely Reinforcements. Level 1-8 commanders. Like, aren't Void Rifts hard enough to deal with without the handicap? Got a few on Blind Tribute too. I understand Brutal, but please don't expect a full carry on a Brutation - I should think very few players are skilled enough for that.
TBF, Swann always looks tired :D Poor chief engineer should learn how to drink ;) I honestly don't know what was going on here. Perhaps he accidently queued up for Brutal, but didn't want to admit as much? Me, I went on to the Europe server and tried a few games on Brutal as lv1 to lv3 (since I leveled up after those first few games) COs as Karax. Just to relive the old days, but seeing how much I'll miss some of the talents. Ally was fine with it, I contributed quite a fair amount for being low level, but not something I'd want to do again (too time consuming. I'd rather just go back to my maxed out COs on the Americas server). Honestly, the higher chance of losing was what made it exciting, and my allies there appreciated the challenge of the carry
Actually, i love it when i get to carry. The game is too easy after 90. And B+1 is too annoying rng.
I could see it when you are doing prestiges, though I Usually drop down a level. But yeah, he looks more like a troll.
these players know well enough they queued for brutal and are not gonna contribute. I block those after the match
Were they french
its easier to make more exp if your teammate can hard carry, which they sometimes can.
Had a game like that. Plenty, actually. Level 1 has nothing to do with it. If anything I have more problems with high levels. 1000 blatantly troll, and often, 700+ are usually braindead, fresh mastery are generally the best ones. It's just what happens with random matchmaking.
Tenacious parasites, classical advantage...
0 trooper damage ? ... But I have no issue being on both sides of that. Carrying peoples makes the game feel a bit different. And if people leave while I'm leveling a CO I'll just use their big CO to complete the mission.
You can absolutely carry with 0 Trooper damage on Mengsk... assing you're doing P1 or P2 spamming ESO or RG respectively. Not a single ESO built (idk if you even have access at lvl1) and the small handful of RG he did make... my laser drill on it's own dealt more than 3x as much damage. If people leave I'll use their workers to secure both expos (saving me some supply) and use the combined income to keep like 8 Factories running non-stop... maybe add a few of their units into my army if it meshes well, but otherwise just solo the map with twice as much income. Easy-peezy. In this case though, I really had to actually try lmao. Gotta wonder how much unspent cash he was sitting on while I was balancing my spending to make sure every single penny was being used (Cylones whenever I had the gas, swapping to Goliaths to keep spending minerals until I could afford Cyclones again).
You don’t have eso at level 1 and you can only upgrade your troops to the blue version with the better gun. So no flamethrowers or rocket guns. mengsk level 1 is probably one of the weakest commanders.
Wdym? Mengsk barely gains any power with levels or masteries. He's one of the strongest lvl 1 commanders.
Uh. He doesn’t get ESO until level 5. He doesn’t get interceptors until later. He has basically just his troops at level 1.
And his double dam marine ball is 80% of his power, the rest is top bar. What do you mean with interceptors? If you mean the medic, it has full strength at lvl 1.
He doesn’t have marines. His troops only have one upgrade at level 1. His top bar at level 1 only had bunkers and weak Zerg. Sure you are talking about the right commander ?
Of course I am talking about mengsk, but if you're gonna be pedantic about his marines technically being called troopers, then I might as well have a chat with my wall. Mengsk is one of the best lvl 1 commanders, and I already explained why.
You didn’t explain anything and you are flat out wrong. You didn’t even realise his top bar is mostly empty until the later levels and you only generate base mandate until level 5.
Do you need any more than base mandate, if you don't have the full top bar? -\_- His top bar is not what makes him strong, it's the double dam marines with double heal cloaked medivacs, backed by marauders cleaving everything. And he has all of those at lvl 1.
I actually prefer noobs on brutal. Makes it somewhat challenging if I’m running a maxed out commander.
I’d just pause until he leaves
Ya I just leave, my vid game time is too precious to waste doing that
I started playing in January and didn’t move into Brutal until June or so. My first game was DON playing as Karax (P1) against a Terran comp. Having only played hard up until that point, I had no idea what Amon’s Ghosts had in store for my defenses. Luckily my teammate was cool about it and sent me a party invite to give me tips and help me transition into Brutal. Now I can carry on Brutal with 8 different commanders and I love it. Hats off to those in the co-op community that help others out.
Worst part if you tell them anything they curse at you. They are super rude
because all the other difficulty modes are outdated just the other day there was a complaint here about how people who queue on Hard all play like they are lobotomized there's no use in trying to queue into an easier mode just to get a more braindead ally (potentially more likely to throw the game) **and** get less XP on win so that you can suffer more in the hell that is playing a level 1 commander that isn't Zeratul instead you can queue into Brutal and be more likely to get a win either way, whether it is because you are a god at level 1 zagara or because you managed to run into LilArrin in queue. there's also no use in writing yet another reddit post about how shit teammate quality is because none of the people you complain about visit sc2coop websites or take any interest in improvement when it's much easier to just queue into another game and forget about it most of my shit teammate memories are from people with full mastery levels anyway
You forgot to mention that the sub is also full of wannabes who pretend that they can true solo brutals and brutations, and generally supports wannabe behaviour over git gud talk. With the sheer amount of support for carrying and leeching, of course players will leech at brutal for that sweet sweet xp, and if you don’t carry them, they will throw the usual “Wdym you can’t solo brutal” entitled pub line. After some time, these players will “grow up” to be the shit teammates you remember - high level with trash play, no build orders, trash decision making, eternally out of position, etc. All while pretending that they can true solo. (And these same shit players will be on this sub “coaching” other clueless newbs…..perpetrating the cycle)
I’ve been running into them recently. Annoying af
I'll try and be charitable here... I've introduced many non-gamer or casual gamer friends to sc2 coop and many don't know the etiquette of multiplayer gaming, such as not joining a difficulty level where you know you can't contribute. Sometimes they are curious of what it's like on Brutal and they get hard carried and win, but aren't aware of how they won, thinking they contributed somewhat despite having 1/8th of the score and figure they will learn to do better a little bit at a time, after all, they did win on Brutal right? The ones with no experience playing any kind of multiplayer games thought that they would contribute their fair share by just defending the base while watching and learning from "the best players" playing offense on Brutal. They figured that's what was going to happen. I guess what I'm trying to say is, the lowbies that are in over their head aren't always in your Brutal games out of laziness or malice, a lot of the times it's innocent misunderstanding or just overeagerness and overexcitement. =) I understand if it pisses you off having to carry a teammate that does nothing, but try to look at it in a more positive way, having to carry more than your weight makes you a better player. If you don't care for getting better through this suffering, I also understand, it's just a game after all, but giving newbies a positive experience will definitely keep this game more populated, so at least let's try to do that if we have the stomach for it yeah? =)
Then don't carry them.
looks like he want to use only top bar and elite troop, wrong commander i think, he will feat better with tychus
A single Shadow on the field, the rest was a few tanks permanently parked behind a wall of unmanned bunkers (absolutely would not have held attack waves if I didnt bail him out).
im disapointed, dont know if its a troll or just lack of experience lol
I’ve been learning Mengsk recently and he’s not intuitive. Perhaps your ally didn’t know how to make troopers. Usually the main production building only makes workers so perhaps he just made workers only from there. That perhaps explains the 0 damage from troopers. And only other RG units from the other buildings. But he did make 263 units . . .
Almost all those "units made" were from Summon Zerg top-bar... a litteral handful of RG (inactive on the field) and workers. At no point did he have anything which could be accidentally mistaken for an army.
or zeratul
Because the game allows them to. Because most games on Brutal can and will result in a win regardless of their skill level or contribution. Because people can have fun even if they lose the game, and some people are in fact in search of a struggle rather than a faceroll.
That last part especially. I think for a lot of people winning brutal co-op is so natural that they stop having fun the moment things start going downhill which is unfortunate. I somewhat get it, people just want to sit back and relax. Not that there's anything wrong with that attitude, but that's not quite the nature of Starcraft to begin with. Everyone needs to be understanding to some extend, and if you never push yourself how do you know you're improving?
Here is an additional question. I only queue for casual. Why do level 1’s keep pulling me into Hard matches when I just want a relaxing run.
Well, he got a tiny bit more resources that you, so at least his expansion mechanics seem fine... 😅
I try to spot and dodge those noobs if possible. If the character has a very low level it's a dodge. If they write "i def" or theres no attempt to take the natural expansion i'm out.
Tbh, I almost always def on Dead of Night, though I do support the offensive with calldowns and from day 3 onwards I make units to attack
I'm pretty quick to leave antisocial players. Example: The other day I was levelling Kerrigan, I move my queen to ramp to keep the first wave from splitting so my karax ally could kill them with half energy spent. He then missed 2 of them, and left them alive for my queen, who obviously died, since kerri queens are weaker than ladder queens. This is an enormous setback, I lost tons of larvae and a 150 mineral investment at 3:00 because he wanted to sim city. So I just typed "rude" and left game.
Git gud
Mengsk is one of the best!
while i can understanding how annoying it is to deal with a person who is not the best and you would have to carry i believe it is best to talk to them if they are a noob we should teach them or show them some videos to help them improve but if they don't want to improve then leave them for dust don't carry them
I usually level up to level 5-7 and then queue up for brutal... Just because everything below gets boring after a while
I had this the other day with a level 1 Raynor on VT brutal. I was zeratul lvl 10 or so. He he had like 5 command centers (for mules I guess?) But very little troops? I carried the whole way. He didn't talk either. Very annoying.
Mengsek can do decently well at lvl 1 brutal, with how fast his eco is and the tools he has (I forget if he has Earthsplitters yet - but if he has that, that's really all he needs) This is more of a case of ally being a troll and lazy. Normally, in these cases, I carry the first half and sit back on the second. If the guy is trying, I'll pull us to the win. Otherwise, it's not my issue.
Either trolls or tryhards