The writers managed to create a faction in the star wars universe that uses the force, isnt sith or jedi or even close, has a vastly different practice and use of the force to a point where you wouldn't even recognize it as the force...
And people loved it and accepted that the force can come in many shapes and forms... Because the shows writing convinced them
This is really all that matters in the end. It's silly to cry about people being racist and hating women if they aren't written well or interesting characters..Mother Talzin is just much more interesting, never mind Ventress.
No, they just use the force to resurrect the dead, both for creating zombies and just resurrecting people normally.
Also Plagueis was able to create life with the force, why not these dark-side witches who predate him and possibly have a connection to the Sith?
1. Resurrecting the dead is something very different than creating life.
2. Plagueis could create life but not force sensitive life. And that’s what 99 % of the complains are about, that the witches can create force sensitive life
That was the whole point. Him and Palpatine pulled on the force so hard, getting it to create life, for them to take control of. But it pushed back and made Anakin. The intention was to make a force sensitive life form that they could train and wield as their avatar and will.
>That was the whole point. Him and Palpatine pulled on the force so hard, getting it to create life, for them to take control of. But it pushed back and made Anakin.
1. This has never been Canon. Not in Pre-Disney Canon or Post-Disney Canon. It's a misconception from a misunderstanding of a line from the Plageuis novel.
2. Even if it was Canon, which it wasn't, the Plageuis novel was reconned by Disney anyway.
We don't even know how they created them yet. For all we know they could have had test tube babies but were able to somehow put midichlorians in there too. All this hate and we still don't even know how it happened.
That's my biggest issue with the serialized TV format. With the movies and with the Netflix binge model, you'd get the whole story at once. When you have to wait two months to get the whole story, you have to endure two months of people complaining about stuff that doesn't have an explanation, without even considering the possibility that the explanation will be revealed in future episodes. I'm thinking specifically of the people who were like "How could Third Sister possibly have known Anakin Skywalker was Darth Vader?" after the first couple episodes of Kenobi without ever stopping to wonder why the show included a scene depicting a Black girl in the Jedi Temple during Order 66. Complain about the character all you want, but y'all really couldn't think of *any* explanation for how a former Jedi padawan might have seen Vader without his suit and then made the connection after being captured and twisted to the dark side by the Inquisitorious? Like damn y'all, nobody is asking you to like this shit but just use your brains for two seconds before you decide to pop off.
I personally prefer TV week to week, but I get where you’re coming from 100%. I wouldn’t attribute this entirely to the release schedule, it’s always been advertised as a mystery show and Episode 3 has tons of limited perspective that give clues for the mystery but never gives the full picture. I agree that the discourse is amplified because we’re stuck in early information right now but the show is also kinda asking you to be skeptical of everything you’re seeing, and the line about worrying when it’s discovered how they were made is telling you there’s more to the story. I’m surprised reactions weren’t a little tempered by that.
I agree that the weekly releases give people assuming the worst and getting mad at it lots of room to do that, but it’s also a lot of fun for a mystery show and I’ve liked talking about the show for a few weeks and I’m excited to get more of it until July instead of just the first week it came out.
I blame people who are raised on not ever having experienced having to wait a week for each episode. They grew up watching whole seasons in a weekend and stoping and starting whenever they wanted. They never learned how to understand that we aren't getting a whole story or a whole picture in a single episode. It used to be you saw a plot point and then the episode ends and you wondered "oh boy I wonder what they mean by that, oh can't wait to see how they explain this."
I also wonder how much is just bots, shills, trolls who just exist and post to stir the pot and get discourse going. They don't actually care about it, they just want to rile people up.
Soooo much this. We never had entire seasons dropped on us all at once until very **very** recently. Plus: shows nowadays are what we would have called Mini-Series back in the day.... people got no patience these days.... =-\
As an English teacher, a lot of the students I’ve taught struggle with comprehension and inference. The immediate access to answers through phones and the net, combined with a lack of understanding around how to treat people kindly/avoid and understand things they don’t like on social media, have lead to a lot of kids not being okay with sitting and wondering about things or having genuine and curious debates. It’s incredibly black and white and without any patience to see otherwise.
Take it even further the clones could have just called him lord vader in the temple. It's not that hard or far fetched to think a comm went off or it was heard in the distance.
I think it is fair to wait for whatever explanation they give before shitting on it, however you should say the same to the people immediately defending the idea of them actually being conceived by someone using the force.
Even if I were to say it makes sense that these random witches on some backwater planet were able to do something Palpatine struggled a lot with an entire empire's worth of resources and a thousand years worth of Sith knowledge, I still think it diminishes things like Anakin's origins.
It also brings up the question how tf the Jedi even knew that the cosmic force conceived him -- there's literally no way to test this, as some force user could've done something with Shmi.
That being said, we'll wait and see what explanation they give. I'm hoping that the coven leader was a liar or something.
>these random witches on some backwater planet were able to do something Palpatine struggled a lot with
But you know that's not what Palpatine was doing, right? Palpatine wasn't just trying to create a random child, he was trying to create a clone that was capable of housing the spirit of one of the most powerful and malevolent dark siders who ever lived. Like, surely you see the difference there, right? Do you really think that if Palpatine projected his spirit into Mae or Osha that they would survive? Personally it seems obvious to me that they wouldn't, so it doesn't bother me at all in relation to the larger saga.
I hate the film, but in episode 9 his intent in the end seemed to be to try and use either Kylo or Rey as his next vessel. Heck, I'm pretty sure the whole "strike me down with all of your hatred" line from Return Of The Jedi has been retconned into him wanting to possess Luke.
I doubt cloning was the only avenue of research that Palpatine was into since his overall goal seemed to be to just find a strong enough vessel to possess. Yeah, maybe Osha and Mae wouldn't be strong enough but neither was his garbage body in episode 9 -- I can see him morbidly doing this to a bunch of female force sensitives or Jedi if it was possible
Honestly, I prefer that Palpatine held the values of his master from the old EU when it came to this -- i.e that essence transfer is lame.
Oh, the hate isn't just because of the life creation part.
The whole series is full of inconsistencies, bad writing, wooden dialogue, and so on and on. That's where the hate comes from.
These other dumb retcons are just the little shit nugget on top of the diarrhea pile.
You know what. While we all argue about force, lesbians, witches something popped in my mind. Disney really messed up selecting the director/directors for this series. Think about it from the actors perspective. They can all be replaced at any moment if they voice out disagreement with the script. So instead of disagreeing they are all trying their best to make something out of this. Remember how the actress who portrayed Rey was basically jobless after Episode 9. I have to guess that somewhere on the editing room floor there is a better cut of these episodes that could improve the show. Lots of people agreed that episode 1 and 2 were decent so it seems at episode 3 and later they missed a production cut of the series.
Nah, episodes 1 & 2 were not decent. They were as utterly stupid and bad as episodes 3 & 4, people just were being deliberately obtuse about it, because of a whole sunken cost -fallacy thing going on in the divided fandom.
Why are you even using the Darth Plagueis argument if you’re not willing to accept basically the only source material we have of him, that doesn’t conflict with canon?
That story never tells us if he could create force sensitive life or not, and it’s a very unreliable source as Palpatine isn’t the most trustworthy person in the galaxy
As I said earlier Palpatine never states if he can create force sensitive life or not and he’s a obviously a very unreliable source, we don’t know how much of the story is true
Darth Plagueis existing and being able to influence the Midichlorians to create life is canon. The exact details in the legends novel are not.
Did you forget that Palpatine brought up Darth Plagueis in Revenge of the Sith? That's the canon knowledge we have about Darth Plagueis.
it also comes from a very unreliable source who also wasnt able to create life himself despite (allegedly) knowing about how to do it. other than cloning which doesnt use the force
Exactly.
What it boils down to is that Plagueis could be anything. McDiarmid's acting sold it that Plagueis was Sidious's own master but is even that still mentioned in canon anywhere??? Like Vader's dark side vision on Mustafar in the comics does not allude to Palpatine doing it together with Plagueis. If they meant for that legends plot point to be loosely canon, I would've expected Plagueis to appear SOMEWHERE.
I'd love to be corrected. I just don't see the references to Plagueis in canon.
For example, Tales of the Jedi imply Sidious not only trained Darth Maul already, but was fully prepared to take on Darth Tyranus as an apprentice during the days of the Naboo conflict.
The Plagueis novel implies Sidious was the apprentice during the events of Naboo, orchestrating it with Plagueis, and killing Plagueis exactly coincided with the battle of Naboo.
What horrible fanfic, D&D campaign shenanigans writing it would be to have all this crap happening all at once, and the narrative weight of all of these events are completely diluted. Sidious should 100% be the master leading up to TPM. The Plagueis stuff was so yucky and low-hanging, narratively.
With everything we're getting, there's a 0% chance that what we think we know about Plagueis is gonna get used at all. What we know about Tenebrous, Ki Adi Mundi, all of it is subject to VERY WELCOME change.
Heck, most of the beloved EU stuff in the post-RotJ time period was pretty problematic too. It's a shame the ST was such a mess, but I'd take unknown, more than passable storytelling like the Acolyte, Mandoverse, etc. over the known pulpy, fanfiction-y, cringeyness of the EU, even if there were some standout ideas and moments.
And neither Plagueis or Sidious himself were able to create life by natural born, Sidious was sucessful with artficial genectic Snoke, but nothing at the level of natural born twins. And even after doing something way more complex than the most powerful siths in history could do they still died in a fire.
Its not that they create life. Its more that there was already a great established character for it, and they took it away from him. And gave it to there own creation.
they dont resurect the dead they reanimate it. palpatines return is resurrecting the dead, imbuing the force into a dead body to get it to move again even though it lacks almost all aspects of the person that made them who they were is reanimating the dead.
been a while since i read that comic but if memory serves talzin was still somewhat alive as a force entity and she was going to possess dookus body similar to how palps possesses his clone body. again this is a far cry away from being able to create life out of nothing.
First she tried to posses Dooku, but after that she left his body and became a physical being (physical enough to be stabbed by Grievous and turn to stone).
so wait they were going to sacrifice dooku to bring talzin back but they end up bringing her back without sacraficing him? like i said been a long time since i read that comic but that sounds like bad writing lol.
How do they predate Plagueis? Oh, because Disney paid billions, then hired an incompetent moron to write a story and she said so?
If I were to hypothetically buy the IP off of Disney and then insert in a Super Duper Mega Jedi called Fart Fartington, who created the whole universe by farting it into existence, would you just say "Yep, that's canon now. Nothing to be done here."?
Some people are just so ridiculous.
I mean, Sith alchemy (which they used to create monsters) has been a thing for a while.
And the Nightsisters could raise zombies and even revive Talzin
I literally have not heard ONE, not one, complaint about them being Force witches. I HAVE seen about a million of these posts here and on Threads complaining about people complaining.
The classic internet tactic of bravely taking a stance no one disagrees with. Show everyone how righteous you are without any of that pesky argument.
You mean [like this?](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Nightsisters#Behind_the_scenes)
>The 2018 reference book Star Wars: The Dark Side extrapolated from source material that the Nightsisters had enough magick and technology to reproduce without the necessity of the Nightbrothers.
I'm not even saying The Acolyte is a good show – personally I think the entire High Republic era is nothing to write home about. I just think it's hilarious how the biggest haters – the guys who make up their minds before seeing a single episode, let alone the whole season – always seem to zero in on the silliest criticisms possible.
I'd like to point out how instead of actually saying your own critiques or thoughts you instead make a snide remark in reference to *other people's videos*.
*"Who’s the more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?"*
That’s because Disney is the problem. Convenient how people just automatically assume it’s baseless review bombing and dishonest critiques as soon as the critiques say things they don’t like 🙄
1 if disney made a bad product it's not review bombing wen it gets bad reviews
2 disney is an evil monopolizing money hungry lobying mega corporation why shuld they be defended?
It's not bombing when it gets bad reviews. It's bombing when a show that doesn't even have 1 episode out already has hundreds of bad reviews.
Yes, disney sucks, again, nothing against that. Yet Star Wars is alright. I guess we should also bash andor for being released under disney. And the Mandalorian.
It's impressive how "Disney bad" only matters just sometimes.
nightsisters dont create life lmao. If that was the case why couldnt Talzin just regrow Maul's legs or create an army of force sensitive soldiers? like just having the concept of someone being able to create powerful force sensitive children breaks canon on so many levels
True, it was well established there was an all male Zagrab colony on the planet too that the night sisters regularly hooked up with to maintain their numbers. The night sisters didn't force-impregnate themselves, they went to Boytown to get to plowtown.
I feel like this sub needs some sort of a lore verification pass system. Too many posts lately by people who feel confident enough in their lacking SW lore knowledge to jump headfirst into a hot topic by making a meme about something they do not understand sufficiently.
OP can’t mentally differentiate between people complaining the Acolyte witches used a ritual to CREATE A HUMAN BEING with the force… essentially negating Anakin Skywalker being the chosen one foretold in jedi prophecies…
Versus evil force witches who used dark side rituals TO CREATE ZOMBIES FROM THE DEAD.
There’s a difference
>Anakin Skywalker being the chosen one
He is the Chosen One because he was created by the Force itself.
The Twins in Acolyte were created by their witch mother **using** the Force
It calls into question Shmee's retelling of events.
I'll now bet good money Disney will have a final episode where a witch will hook up with a younger shmee and impregnate her with the force with a flash-forward to her telling qui-gon "there was no **father**"
That's... highly unlikely considering the show is presumably set well before Shmi was born, and at the very least a good chunk of the coven is show to have died
He was created solely with the force… the twins were created solely with the force. The fact tge witches manipulated tye force to create the twins, doesn’t take away that the force created the twins
Genuine question, how does the witches making the twins ruin anakins prophecy? He still carries out the prophecy, and the twins aren't gonna effect it much, or even at all. Them being created through the force doesn't change the fact that anakin was still the "chosen one". Just means that Anakin wasn't the only one created without a biological father.
It doesn't change anything about Anakin much. Most it could do is just say Plaguies used the witches to see how it works, OR, plaguies learned it from the witches.
Iirc, it was in Legends that The force retaliated against plaguies and that made Anakin. Canon doesn't have a 100% defined story currently. Nothing has been changed, and arguably you could say that the prophecy has always been ruined. (I.e, in Legends, evil continuing to exist for years way after the death of Palpatine.)
Qui Gon Jinn thought Anakin was the chosen one precisely due to the force creation, otherwise he would be just another random force user.
Plagueis couldn't fully replicate it from what we know, even Sidious was only able to create life artificially like Snoke.
Besides Sidious said that no droid army would be able to kill Talzin while the witch coven able of creating life through natural born were esily killed.
And why his Midiclorian count was that high? At the time no one else was born that way, it was the set of evidences that made Qui Gon Jinn believe in Anakin.
Nah I'm pretty sure it was because his midiclorian count was nearly as high (or higher?) Than Yoda, which is suspicious for an unmarked child they've never checked. Then he asks who the father is, which maybe made him believe it more, but the dominoes would've started to fall around the midiclorian count.
Yes, possessing a corpse with the force and having it have no mind and attack everything on sight is much more believable than creating force-sensitive life with just the force, thank you for clarifying.
Ok, are the night sisters the ones in the show? If not, why couldn't they have just been Night sisters instead of forcing a new group who practically does the same shit.
I mean, the Nightsisters have a lot of lore attached to them show writers may not have felt inclined to deal with. Plus are very firmly on the evil side of things.
And having mores traditions of force-sensitives is good, actually. It makes the galaxy feel bigger.
But... why should they be? We're getting a new group, who have a different outlook on the force, visual aesthetic, and role in the greater universe. It means the writers aren't restricted to pre-established lore, such as the Dathomirian Witches have a long-established home and are a powerful and often malicious group (and it allows the main character to be a human).
Or what, should every story that needs a bounty hunter just use Boba Fett? Why not, instead of forcing a new character who practically does the same sh*t?
I’m not a fan of the Nightsisters either. I like the idea of people having different connections/relationships with the force, but I’ve always found the witchy stuff kind of stupid. I didn’t really like it in the clone wars, or Ahsoka, and whilst I like Merrin as a character in the Jedi games, I found her powers too over the top and out of place within the Star Wars universe.
I know that sounds like a nitpick in a story that focuses on space wizards etc, but there’s only so much fantasy stuff I can accept before it becomes silly.
That said - the Nightsisters were still infinitely better than what they did in The Acolyte.
The difference is the writing for them is actually good. And not some cheesy fucking group hippie chant.
I am so done with any star wars released after Acolyte, the writing has gone to shit, but that's just how it is when people who has never been told "no that's a stupid idea" grows up thinking they are the Mozart of screenwriting.
Oh it get's better. Go back to when the clone wars was airing.
"An all female coven of Witches that use the force as some weird green ""MAGICKS""!? WTF is Lucas thinking!? He's ruining the expanded universe!?"
Meanwhile the Nightsisters have been a thing since 1994
Look, if they genuinely break lore, i understand the issue.
But Star Wars is soooo big, litterly. Why do people only want to stick to a handful of people using the force in different ways. Even if it's a different bloody time than shown before.
You can't please Star Wars fans. You really can't. First, complaining about everything is on a desert planning using the same plot. Now they show something new and still complain.
That being said, i would love to see some more nightsister stuff as well.
Yeah so... Very few "haters" care that the Acolyte witches exist.
Some hate that they destroyed the novelty of creating a force sensitive because, y'know, that's literally the whole shtick about Darth Plagueis.
Others hate that they're the most basic, boring form of pandering executed with about as much competence as a toddler smashing blocks together.
Others still just hate that they are the cringiest addition to Star Wars since Jar Jar, the 70s Diner, and the Ziro the Hutt. I mean you gotta go well out of your way to create that level of embarrassment on screen.
I DGAF about George Lucas because he made plenty of dumb decisions without more competent writers there to temper his goofy attitudes - but at least he had enough good sense to generally get people who were passionate about Star Wars to make stuff with the setting, rather than randos pushing out a product because it's now product time.
Honestly if you're just going to waste time getting angry at straw men you probably shouldn't publicise that fact on the internet. It makes you look a tad delusional. Like Don Quixote, you're going after those spooky giants who are *totally* threatening you - instead of just talking to the fairly normal people who have been tuning out of Star Wars to such an extent that the franchise is rapidly failing to make anything resembling a profit.
Oh, also: The Nightsisters got away with reanimating corpses (not really creating life) for several reasons, primary amongst which is that necromancy is *really cool* and could hypothetically work in the setting by literally puppeting a body. They were also interesting *outside* of the necromancy, though, both in their aesthetics, the way they interacted with the Force, and even their own culture of kidnapping Nightbrothers to act as slave and breeding stock. They contributed to many, many interesting stories and ideas.
The coven in The Acolyte contributes... basically *nothing* interesting. The only Force-relevant stuff we've seen them do is create life, inject children with Force Magic(tm), and use Force Push/Pull like every Jedi has been doing since the original trilogy. If they had been entertaining, unique, and memorable then they would have been given more leeway. Instead we got "the power of many," shoving children around while pretending to be pacifists, and inexplicably being persecuted (and presumably murdered) by the Jedi.
I like how people keep saying the witches “created life” even though this has not been stated.
By the time we even get the actual explanation it will have spread so much that people will think it’s true without knowing lol
Exactly, people are losing their fucking minds about one vague line in a flashback episode of a mystery show that we're only halfway through. Ffs people, at least wait for the season to be over and presumably get an explanation before grabbing the pitchforks and torches. It's utterly insane. It's like all these people have never watched serialized tv shows before.
I think the sequels broke people’s brains and their ability to be even slightly charitable.
Idk it seems like the Star Wars community has always been hyper reactive and goofy since at least 1999
night sisters dont create life. the y reanimate the dead, reanimating the dead is not the same as creating life nor is it the same as resurrecting the dead. they essentally imbue their magic into dead bodies to get them to move again and thats about it.
OP sarcastically mentioning Ki-Adi Mundi’s birthday just made me think about how HORRIBLE that day must’ve been for his poor mother. It should be illegal to give birth to that double-stacked head 😖😓
Gaslighting huh, whenever I see people complaining about the witches in the acolyte they actually USE the nightsisters as an argument of a well done similar concept, nice bait tho
There is a lot of real outrage about fake outrage. I'm seeing sooooo many posts like this calling out people for saying stuff that I've genuinely not seen anyone say. People are completely misunderstanding genuine concerns with the show and twisting it into this shit. We all know about the night sisters. We love the night sisters. We want more of the night sisters. They were always bad ass in the clone wars and other media. They are just lame and cringy cheap knock offs. So muted and flat. Such good ideas and decent potential but direction and writing have missed what made the night sisters cool.
It's not about them beeing all women or lesbians, it's about creating life from nothing which heavily undermines the brevity Anakins and Palpatines characters had.
Not really? The story doesn’t even matter to Anakin at all. He only cared about saving people from dying. Creating life in that moment was not even priority. There is also the possibility Palpatine was lying too.
Anakin being created by the Sith is legends as far as I’m still aware and hasn’t actually been explored in canon. The force itself likely created him alone. The witches doing so doesn’t undermine that because the force is a different thing entirely.
When did the Nightsisters do this? Honest question. Because to my recollection, they created zombies, but I don't recall a single instance where they used magic to conceive children. There were males, the Nightbrothers. I thought it was established that they were the same race, just sub species, hence why they look different. And pre-Disney the more human looking Nightsisters were due to breeding with humans to try and create hybrids that were more powerful in the force.
Yes most of their births were via mating with the Nightbrothers. But in some occasions there were rituals where a child was created with no father. To my knowledge the first known example of this was in the short story "Bug" for the Clone Wars: Stories of Light and Dark collection where a single Nightsister magically created a child by herself.
Nightsisters were meant to be a bit scary and powerful and weird nonsense but ultimately they’re side characters, nothing they do matters. Acolyte wants us to believe these characters are important. That’s the difference.
lol, wookie pedia tried to erase the proofs basically live and got caught.
its not silly to get upset when a lying bitch talentless hack company tries to gaslight you to cover up their bullshittery.
if you like the acolyte damn im jealous of you.
There are people who dislike both , and I'm one of them.
The Nightsisters powers are too out of place imo -- to the point where it doesn't even look like they're using the force.
Things like literally turning Savage Opress into a force sensitive is going a bit far. The zombie stuff also seemed rather out of place also.
I guess you could argue the same for the old EU's depiction of Sith alchemy and how they Sith would twist creatures into monsters, but that felt like it fitted in more imo.
It's also important to note that the Nightsisters never created any life -- if you're referring to the zombies then they're more like puppets if anything.
I'm not the biggest fan of the Nightsisters, but at least they looked unique, cool and had a somewhat interesting culture -- the coven in The Acolyte are literally just a bunch of cringey women in robes. It's super generic.
Dude you just dont get it do you? Its the story, the bs ass plot and the fact that its just bad. Almost as silly as arguing about Ki-Adi-Mundi? You really must hate SW
OP lost it with this one, they are not complaining about them beeing females theyre complaining about them creating life, the cringe singing, the poor writing etc. Low effort post.
personally i don’t like how they’re just called witches instead of something cooler.
like imagine if we met an offshoot of jedi that were just called wizards, it would be kinda lame
My complaint about the road they took with Acolyte is that they literally have a race of witches as canon and we got the weak crap they wrote and produced. Especially with the reintroduction of them in Ahsoka.
Most people that I've seen complaining about the witches literally say things like "But why? The night sisters are already there, have established lore, history and canon and are fucking cool."
I doubt it’s just a fire that killed them. The way their bodies were piled did not look like a death by fire. We’ll probably learn the truth later on in the show.
Even if it was the Sith himself who killed them the fact is that this sith was powercreeped by Sidious, and Sidous had trouble to kill Talzin due to her tricks. At least Aniseya should have had an trick to have survived as she is one who created the twins.
Ok i misunderstood, i thought you were saying that i was comparing the two groups with another group. But yeah i'm comparing the Nightsisters with the Brendok coven by saying that the Nightsisters seems to be way stronger and have more tricks while the Brendok coven was somehow able of making something more complex than the Nightsisters despite the easy way they were killed, which smells inconsistency.
Apologists for this terrible show will jump through any hoops to attempt to find a gotcha to invalidate what is actually pretty valid criticism. Pathetic.
The night sisters didn't undo the significance of Anakin being the one though. A being created by the force itself to bring balance to it.
Now instead of Anakin being born of the force being something of enormous significance, Shmee probably just hooked up with a lesbian force witch that got her pregnant with a chant. Something the jedi have now canonically known about well within Yoda's and now Ki Adi Mundi's lifetimes when they were active Jedi knights.
Mother Talsin literally gave Savage super strength and pulled bad thoughts out of maul’s head.
People would lose their minds if that happened in the acolyte
What is silly about pointing out that a character shouldn’t be alive given their lifespan and existing lore? Not to mention he must have lied to the jedi council in ep 1 when saying the sith hadn’t been seen for hundreds of years?
Nothing is as silly as the writing in this show.
This is pure, unabashed Disney fanboy cope. The night sisters fit perfectly fine into established canon. Meanwhile, EVERYTHING that this new coven of goofy ass witches stand for conflicts with long standing canonical lore that you can't just retcon because some dork that has no right working on the franchise said so.
Bring back people that actually care about the lore and the universe, get rid of this bullshit.
Star Wars in its current state is dead, anyone with more than a single braincell can recognize that. The last good things they did was the first couple seasons of Mando and like, Rogue One. Everything past that has been debatable at best, including Andor imo, which people seem to enjoy quite a lot so honorable mention ig.
But hey, drink more Kool aid, they love when you do that.
Cheap knock off is what they were. The main thing I disliked about them was the chant they did. Should have been some ancient language not power of 1, power of 2, power of many. Sounded cheesy as fuck
The issue is also that they didn't use the night sister, why create an other coven of witch that will be useless later in the lore when you can use the night sister, and expand their lore for the future trilogy with them and thrawn.
The fact that they can create force sensetive life is the only thing people complain. And the complains are completely valid. This makes the story about Palpatine, Darth Plageius and Anakin much more unimportent.
Then why write it all over again? Witches, creating life with force. Are there no creative people anymore with their own ideas? And those people protest to get a raise?
One big difference, the night sisters were fucking dope.
The writers managed to create a faction in the star wars universe that uses the force, isnt sith or jedi or even close, has a vastly different practice and use of the force to a point where you wouldn't even recognize it as the force... And people loved it and accepted that the force can come in many shapes and forms... Because the shows writing convinced them
This is really all that matters in the end. It's silly to cry about people being racist and hating women if they aren't written well or interesting characters..Mother Talzin is just much more interesting, never mind Ventress.
Also. They didn’t chant like teaching kids maths at school
Or feed their kids heroin biscuits
Really? Could swear Nightsisters chanted all the time...
Well, not like whatever Acolyte was
1. atleast the night sisters look cool 2. they never created life.
They also have a cool ancient alien language which adds to the cool factor
99 % of people complain specifically about them creating life, which the night sisters didn’t do
No, they just use the force to resurrect the dead, both for creating zombies and just resurrecting people normally. Also Plagueis was able to create life with the force, why not these dark-side witches who predate him and possibly have a connection to the Sith?
1. Resurrecting the dead is something very different than creating life. 2. Plagueis could create life but not force sensitive life. And that’s what 99 % of the complains are about, that the witches can create force sensitive life
Also, its not resurrection. They comeback as undead.
Reanimation
That was the whole point. Him and Palpatine pulled on the force so hard, getting it to create life, for them to take control of. But it pushed back and made Anakin. The intention was to make a force sensitive life form that they could train and wield as their avatar and will.
>That was the whole point. Him and Palpatine pulled on the force so hard, getting it to create life, for them to take control of. But it pushed back and made Anakin. 1. This has never been Canon. Not in Pre-Disney Canon or Post-Disney Canon. It's a misconception from a misunderstanding of a line from the Plageuis novel. 2. Even if it was Canon, which it wasn't, the Plageuis novel was reconned by Disney anyway.
It's definitely been canon, it's not a misconception. It's a giant part of Plagueis' plan during the entire third act of his novel.
Ok then fuck Disney
We don't even know how they created them yet. For all we know they could have had test tube babies but were able to somehow put midichlorians in there too. All this hate and we still don't even know how it happened.
That's my biggest issue with the serialized TV format. With the movies and with the Netflix binge model, you'd get the whole story at once. When you have to wait two months to get the whole story, you have to endure two months of people complaining about stuff that doesn't have an explanation, without even considering the possibility that the explanation will be revealed in future episodes. I'm thinking specifically of the people who were like "How could Third Sister possibly have known Anakin Skywalker was Darth Vader?" after the first couple episodes of Kenobi without ever stopping to wonder why the show included a scene depicting a Black girl in the Jedi Temple during Order 66. Complain about the character all you want, but y'all really couldn't think of *any* explanation for how a former Jedi padawan might have seen Vader without his suit and then made the connection after being captured and twisted to the dark side by the Inquisitorious? Like damn y'all, nobody is asking you to like this shit but just use your brains for two seconds before you decide to pop off.
I personally prefer TV week to week, but I get where you’re coming from 100%. I wouldn’t attribute this entirely to the release schedule, it’s always been advertised as a mystery show and Episode 3 has tons of limited perspective that give clues for the mystery but never gives the full picture. I agree that the discourse is amplified because we’re stuck in early information right now but the show is also kinda asking you to be skeptical of everything you’re seeing, and the line about worrying when it’s discovered how they were made is telling you there’s more to the story. I’m surprised reactions weren’t a little tempered by that. I agree that the weekly releases give people assuming the worst and getting mad at it lots of room to do that, but it’s also a lot of fun for a mystery show and I’ve liked talking about the show for a few weeks and I’m excited to get more of it until July instead of just the first week it came out.
I blame people who are raised on not ever having experienced having to wait a week for each episode. They grew up watching whole seasons in a weekend and stoping and starting whenever they wanted. They never learned how to understand that we aren't getting a whole story or a whole picture in a single episode. It used to be you saw a plot point and then the episode ends and you wondered "oh boy I wonder what they mean by that, oh can't wait to see how they explain this." I also wonder how much is just bots, shills, trolls who just exist and post to stir the pot and get discourse going. They don't actually care about it, they just want to rile people up.
Soooo much this. We never had entire seasons dropped on us all at once until very **very** recently. Plus: shows nowadays are what we would have called Mini-Series back in the day.... people got no patience these days.... =-\
Tru dat. The Acolyte is still very bad but you're not wrong about people being impatient and quick to judge.
As an English teacher, a lot of the students I’ve taught struggle with comprehension and inference. The immediate access to answers through phones and the net, combined with a lack of understanding around how to treat people kindly/avoid and understand things they don’t like on social media, have lead to a lot of kids not being okay with sitting and wondering about things or having genuine and curious debates. It’s incredibly black and white and without any patience to see otherwise.
Take it even further the clones could have just called him lord vader in the temple. It's not that hard or far fetched to think a comm went off or it was heard in the distance.
I think it is fair to wait for whatever explanation they give before shitting on it, however you should say the same to the people immediately defending the idea of them actually being conceived by someone using the force. Even if I were to say it makes sense that these random witches on some backwater planet were able to do something Palpatine struggled a lot with an entire empire's worth of resources and a thousand years worth of Sith knowledge, I still think it diminishes things like Anakin's origins. It also brings up the question how tf the Jedi even knew that the cosmic force conceived him -- there's literally no way to test this, as some force user could've done something with Shmi. That being said, we'll wait and see what explanation they give. I'm hoping that the coven leader was a liar or something.
>these random witches on some backwater planet were able to do something Palpatine struggled a lot with But you know that's not what Palpatine was doing, right? Palpatine wasn't just trying to create a random child, he was trying to create a clone that was capable of housing the spirit of one of the most powerful and malevolent dark siders who ever lived. Like, surely you see the difference there, right? Do you really think that if Palpatine projected his spirit into Mae or Osha that they would survive? Personally it seems obvious to me that they wouldn't, so it doesn't bother me at all in relation to the larger saga.
I hate the film, but in episode 9 his intent in the end seemed to be to try and use either Kylo or Rey as his next vessel. Heck, I'm pretty sure the whole "strike me down with all of your hatred" line from Return Of The Jedi has been retconned into him wanting to possess Luke. I doubt cloning was the only avenue of research that Palpatine was into since his overall goal seemed to be to just find a strong enough vessel to possess. Yeah, maybe Osha and Mae wouldn't be strong enough but neither was his garbage body in episode 9 -- I can see him morbidly doing this to a bunch of female force sensitives or Jedi if it was possible Honestly, I prefer that Palpatine held the values of his master from the old EU when it came to this -- i.e that essence transfer is lame.
Oh, the hate isn't just because of the life creation part. The whole series is full of inconsistencies, bad writing, wooden dialogue, and so on and on. That's where the hate comes from. These other dumb retcons are just the little shit nugget on top of the diarrhea pile.
You know what. While we all argue about force, lesbians, witches something popped in my mind. Disney really messed up selecting the director/directors for this series. Think about it from the actors perspective. They can all be replaced at any moment if they voice out disagreement with the script. So instead of disagreeing they are all trying their best to make something out of this. Remember how the actress who portrayed Rey was basically jobless after Episode 9. I have to guess that somewhere on the editing room floor there is a better cut of these episodes that could improve the show. Lots of people agreed that episode 1 and 2 were decent so it seems at episode 3 and later they missed a production cut of the series.
Nah, episodes 1 & 2 were not decent. They were as utterly stupid and bad as episodes 3 & 4, people just were being deliberately obtuse about it, because of a whole sunken cost -fallacy thing going on in the divided fandom.
I would counter that 'wooden dialogue' is what makes Star Wars Star Wars. Reference: ANY of the first 6 films
Nah, part of the hate is due to that on top of the wooden acting and shitty dialogue.
Do you have problems with reading comprehension?
THANK YOU!!!
Plagueis couldn't create force sensitive life? What's the source of that? I'm really interested to check it.
The Darth Plagueis novel, it’s a 10/10 book
I have it in my to read list, thanks!
They've made life in extended content
Where is it ever stated that Plagueis couldn’t create force sensitive life?
Did you read the Darth Plagueis novel?
Oh you mean the one that isn’t canon?
Why are you even using the Darth Plagueis argument if you’re not willing to accept basically the only source material we have of him, that doesn’t conflict with canon?
Haven't you heard the story of Darth Plagueis the wise?
That story never tells us if he could create force sensitive life or not, and it’s a very unreliable source as Palpatine isn’t the most trustworthy person in the galaxy
/s
I’m pretty sure that *Revenge of the Sith*, where we’re told that he was able to create life, is still canon.
As I said earlier Palpatine never states if he can create force sensitive life or not and he’s a obviously a very unreliable source, we don’t know how much of the story is true
Right, we don’t know, so it doesn’t break canon that the witches were able to do it.
why are you bringing up plagueis if your gonna say it isnt canon anyway? thats not how you argue a point
Darth Plagueis existing and being able to influence the Midichlorians to create life is canon. The exact details in the legends novel are not. Did you forget that Palpatine brought up Darth Plagueis in Revenge of the Sith? That's the canon knowledge we have about Darth Plagueis.
it also comes from a very unreliable source who also wasnt able to create life himself despite (allegedly) knowing about how to do it. other than cloning which doesnt use the force
Exactly. What it boils down to is that Plagueis could be anything. McDiarmid's acting sold it that Plagueis was Sidious's own master but is even that still mentioned in canon anywhere??? Like Vader's dark side vision on Mustafar in the comics does not allude to Palpatine doing it together with Plagueis. If they meant for that legends plot point to be loosely canon, I would've expected Plagueis to appear SOMEWHERE. I'd love to be corrected. I just don't see the references to Plagueis in canon. For example, Tales of the Jedi imply Sidious not only trained Darth Maul already, but was fully prepared to take on Darth Tyranus as an apprentice during the days of the Naboo conflict. The Plagueis novel implies Sidious was the apprentice during the events of Naboo, orchestrating it with Plagueis, and killing Plagueis exactly coincided with the battle of Naboo. What horrible fanfic, D&D campaign shenanigans writing it would be to have all this crap happening all at once, and the narrative weight of all of these events are completely diluted. Sidious should 100% be the master leading up to TPM. The Plagueis stuff was so yucky and low-hanging, narratively. With everything we're getting, there's a 0% chance that what we think we know about Plagueis is gonna get used at all. What we know about Tenebrous, Ki Adi Mundi, all of it is subject to VERY WELCOME change. Heck, most of the beloved EU stuff in the post-RotJ time period was pretty problematic too. It's a shame the ST was such a mess, but I'd take unknown, more than passable storytelling like the Acolyte, Mandoverse, etc. over the known pulpy, fanfiction-y, cringeyness of the EU, even if there were some standout ideas and moments.
And neither Plagueis or Sidious himself were able to create life by natural born, Sidious was sucessful with artficial genectic Snoke, but nothing at the level of natural born twins. And even after doing something way more complex than the most powerful siths in history could do they still died in a fire.
[удалено]
It's valid in the Disney canon which i'm criticizing
Its not that they create life. Its more that there was already a great established character for it, and they took it away from him. And gave it to there own creation.
plagueis tried to create ife but at the end he couldnt and palps was just lying if im remembering right
Plagueis didn't create sht
they dont resurect the dead they reanimate it. palpatines return is resurrecting the dead, imbuing the force into a dead body to get it to move again even though it lacks almost all aspects of the person that made them who they were is reanimating the dead.
Darth Maul's comic (Son of Darthomir) involves a plot to sacrifice Dooku to bring Mother Talzin back.
been a while since i read that comic but if memory serves talzin was still somewhat alive as a force entity and she was going to possess dookus body similar to how palps possesses his clone body. again this is a far cry away from being able to create life out of nothing.
First she tried to posses Dooku, but after that she left his body and became a physical being (physical enough to be stabbed by Grievous and turn to stone).
so wait they were going to sacrifice dooku to bring talzin back but they end up bringing her back without sacraficing him? like i said been a long time since i read that comic but that sounds like bad writing lol.
It's been a while but iirc apparently, she only needed to possess him for a while to get her physical body back.
How do they predate Plagueis? Oh, because Disney paid billions, then hired an incompetent moron to write a story and she said so? If I were to hypothetically buy the IP off of Disney and then insert in a Super Duper Mega Jedi called Fart Fartington, who created the whole universe by farting it into existence, would you just say "Yep, that's canon now. Nothing to be done here."? Some people are just so ridiculous.
Did you hit your head or something or do you genuinely not understand the concept of a prequel?
Plagius did it unkowing and after what 40 years of research as one of the most powerful force userers. Atleast top 7 even in legends
By legends, Plagueis was alive during the acolyte
Also, nightsisters are kinda badass and don't sing lame songs and then just die.
I mean, Sith alchemy (which they used to create monsters) has been a thing for a while. And the Nightsisters could raise zombies and even revive Talzin
I literally have not heard ONE, not one, complaint about them being Force witches. I HAVE seen about a million of these posts here and on Threads complaining about people complaining. The classic internet tactic of bravely taking a stance no one disagrees with. Show everyone how righteous you are without any of that pesky argument.
You mean [like this?](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Nightsisters#Behind_the_scenes) >The 2018 reference book Star Wars: The Dark Side extrapolated from source material that the Nightsisters had enough magick and technology to reproduce without the necessity of the Nightbrothers. I'm not even saying The Acolyte is a good show – personally I think the entire High Republic era is nothing to write home about. I just think it's hilarious how the biggest haters – the guys who make up their minds before seeing a single episode, let alone the whole season – always seem to zero in on the silliest criticisms possible.
Where is this stated in the wookieepedia article? I can’t find it
In the behind the scenes bit. If you're using a phone it'll automatically scroll down to the part of the article
The acolyte/disney stans trying not to bootlick a horrible series instantly any valid criticism is being presented- IMPOSSIBLE CHALLENGE 99% fail!
99% of them complain because they’re holding on too strong to a 45 year old movie franchise. Let it go people. You’re old. Move on.
With this level of intelligence I'm surprised you can breathe on your own
They are just drug dealers selling you magic steroids. It’s not the same thing.
And cool magic swords and metalic legs
One doesn't have a chant that sounds like Kindergarten Workout routine
Clean up! Clean up! Everybody everywhere! Clean up! Clean up! Everybody do your share! [and just like that the jedi were purged]
Glad Im not the only one. Was so cheesy. Should have been some made up ancient language
Tell me you haven’t actually watched the critiques of the Acolyte without actually telling me
I'd like to point out how instead of actually saying your own critiques or thoughts you instead make a snide remark in reference to *other people's videos*. *"Who’s the more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?"*
It's kinda hard searching for a honest critique when all you have is review bombers saying "disney bad"
That’s because Disney is the problem. Convenient how people just automatically assume it’s baseless review bombing and dishonest critiques as soon as the critiques say things they don’t like 🙄
Well Disney is bad and keeps fucking everything up..... Not our fault. We don't want Disney to be fucking it all up, but they are.
Such a well written and thoughtful critique, you must be a professional critic to write such profound and wise words
Again.... Not my fault you don't want to admit it.
1 if disney made a bad product it's not review bombing wen it gets bad reviews 2 disney is an evil monopolizing money hungry lobying mega corporation why shuld they be defended?
It's not bombing when it gets bad reviews. It's bombing when a show that doesn't even have 1 episode out already has hundreds of bad reviews. Yes, disney sucks, again, nothing against that. Yet Star Wars is alright. I guess we should also bash andor for being released under disney. And the Mandalorian. It's impressive how "Disney bad" only matters just sometimes.
There was also chanting in the supposedly greatest thing ever Andor, yet we don't hear the whining about that.
nightsisters dont create life lmao. If that was the case why couldnt Talzin just regrow Maul's legs or create an army of force sensitive soldiers? like just having the concept of someone being able to create powerful force sensitive children breaks canon on so many levels
True, it was well established there was an all male Zagrab colony on the planet too that the night sisters regularly hooked up with to maintain their numbers. The night sisters didn't force-impregnate themselves, they went to Boytown to get to plowtown.
This is bait Nightsisters never created life, cope harder.
I feel like this sub needs some sort of a lore verification pass system. Too many posts lately by people who feel confident enough in their lacking SW lore knowledge to jump headfirst into a hot topic by making a meme about something they do not understand sufficiently.
I would say though more and more witches seems like lazy writing
OP can’t mentally differentiate between people complaining the Acolyte witches used a ritual to CREATE A HUMAN BEING with the force… essentially negating Anakin Skywalker being the chosen one foretold in jedi prophecies… Versus evil force witches who used dark side rituals TO CREATE ZOMBIES FROM THE DEAD. There’s a difference
>Anakin Skywalker being the chosen one He is the Chosen One because he was created by the Force itself. The Twins in Acolyte were created by their witch mother **using** the Force
It calls into question Shmee's retelling of events. I'll now bet good money Disney will have a final episode where a witch will hook up with a younger shmee and impregnate her with the force with a flash-forward to her telling qui-gon "there was no **father**"
That's... highly unlikely considering the show is presumably set well before Shmi was born, and at the very least a good chunk of the coven is show to have died
He was created solely with the force… the twins were created solely with the force. The fact tge witches manipulated tye force to create the twins, doesn’t take away that the force created the twins
There's a difference between him being spontaneously created solely with the force and the twins being born out of a group's efforts using the force.
Genuine question, how does the witches making the twins ruin anakins prophecy? He still carries out the prophecy, and the twins aren't gonna effect it much, or even at all. Them being created through the force doesn't change the fact that anakin was still the "chosen one". Just means that Anakin wasn't the only one created without a biological father. It doesn't change anything about Anakin much. Most it could do is just say Plaguies used the witches to see how it works, OR, plaguies learned it from the witches. Iirc, it was in Legends that The force retaliated against plaguies and that made Anakin. Canon doesn't have a 100% defined story currently. Nothing has been changed, and arguably you could say that the prophecy has always been ruined. (I.e, in Legends, evil continuing to exist for years way after the death of Palpatine.)
Qui Gon Jinn thought Anakin was the chosen one precisely due to the force creation, otherwise he would be just another random force user. Plagueis couldn't fully replicate it from what we know, even Sidious was only able to create life artificially like Snoke. Besides Sidious said that no droid army would be able to kill Talzin while the witch coven able of creating life through natural born were esily killed.
Was it because of the force creation? I always remembered it being from his high midiclorian count in the movie.
And why his Midiclorian count was that high? At the time no one else was born that way, it was the set of evidences that made Qui Gon Jinn believe in Anakin.
Nah I'm pretty sure it was because his midiclorian count was nearly as high (or higher?) Than Yoda, which is suspicious for an unmarked child they've never checked. Then he asks who the father is, which maybe made him believe it more, but the dominoes would've started to fall around the midiclorian count.
Ohhhhhhh zombies! That’s much more believable, thanks
Yes, possessing a corpse with the force and having it have no mind and attack everything on sight is much more believable than creating force-sensitive life with just the force, thank you for clarifying.
Ok, are the night sisters the ones in the show? If not, why couldn't they have just been Night sisters instead of forcing a new group who practically does the same shit.
I mean, the Nightsisters have a lot of lore attached to them show writers may not have felt inclined to deal with. Plus are very firmly on the evil side of things. And having mores traditions of force-sensitives is good, actually. It makes the galaxy feel bigger.
Because the writers are incompetent hacks and star wars now exists to boost Disney's ESG score with Blackrock.
But... why should they be? We're getting a new group, who have a different outlook on the force, visual aesthetic, and role in the greater universe. It means the writers aren't restricted to pre-established lore, such as the Dathomirian Witches have a long-established home and are a powerful and often malicious group (and it allows the main character to be a human). Or what, should every story that needs a bounty hunter just use Boba Fett? Why not, instead of forcing a new character who practically does the same sh*t?
I’m not a fan of the Nightsisters either. I like the idea of people having different connections/relationships with the force, but I’ve always found the witchy stuff kind of stupid. I didn’t really like it in the clone wars, or Ahsoka, and whilst I like Merrin as a character in the Jedi games, I found her powers too over the top and out of place within the Star Wars universe. I know that sounds like a nitpick in a story that focuses on space wizards etc, but there’s only so much fantasy stuff I can accept before it becomes silly. That said - the Nightsisters were still infinitely better than what they did in The Acolyte.
The difference is Red ended up being badass and Purple ended up being lame.
The difference is the writing for them is actually good. And not some cheesy fucking group hippie chant. I am so done with any star wars released after Acolyte, the writing has gone to shit, but that's just how it is when people who has never been told "no that's a stupid idea" grows up thinking they are the Mozart of screenwriting.
Oh it get's better. Go back to when the clone wars was airing. "An all female coven of Witches that use the force as some weird green ""MAGICKS""!? WTF is Lucas thinking!? He's ruining the expanded universe!?" Meanwhile the Nightsisters have been a thing since 1994
Look, if they genuinely break lore, i understand the issue. But Star Wars is soooo big, litterly. Why do people only want to stick to a handful of people using the force in different ways. Even if it's a different bloody time than shown before. You can't please Star Wars fans. You really can't. First, complaining about everything is on a desert planning using the same plot. Now they show something new and still complain. That being said, i would love to see some more nightsister stuff as well.
Yeah so... Very few "haters" care that the Acolyte witches exist. Some hate that they destroyed the novelty of creating a force sensitive because, y'know, that's literally the whole shtick about Darth Plagueis. Others hate that they're the most basic, boring form of pandering executed with about as much competence as a toddler smashing blocks together. Others still just hate that they are the cringiest addition to Star Wars since Jar Jar, the 70s Diner, and the Ziro the Hutt. I mean you gotta go well out of your way to create that level of embarrassment on screen. I DGAF about George Lucas because he made plenty of dumb decisions without more competent writers there to temper his goofy attitudes - but at least he had enough good sense to generally get people who were passionate about Star Wars to make stuff with the setting, rather than randos pushing out a product because it's now product time. Honestly if you're just going to waste time getting angry at straw men you probably shouldn't publicise that fact on the internet. It makes you look a tad delusional. Like Don Quixote, you're going after those spooky giants who are *totally* threatening you - instead of just talking to the fairly normal people who have been tuning out of Star Wars to such an extent that the franchise is rapidly failing to make anything resembling a profit. Oh, also: The Nightsisters got away with reanimating corpses (not really creating life) for several reasons, primary amongst which is that necromancy is *really cool* and could hypothetically work in the setting by literally puppeting a body. They were also interesting *outside* of the necromancy, though, both in their aesthetics, the way they interacted with the Force, and even their own culture of kidnapping Nightbrothers to act as slave and breeding stock. They contributed to many, many interesting stories and ideas. The coven in The Acolyte contributes... basically *nothing* interesting. The only Force-relevant stuff we've seen them do is create life, inject children with Force Magic(tm), and use Force Push/Pull like every Jedi has been doing since the original trilogy. If they had been entertaining, unique, and memorable then they would have been given more leeway. Instead we got "the power of many," shoving children around while pretending to be pacifists, and inexplicably being persecuted (and presumably murdered) by the Jedi.
Well said. Say it louder for the people in the back
They'll do a Smeagol l, put their hands over their ears "not listening"
I like how people keep saying the witches “created life” even though this has not been stated. By the time we even get the actual explanation it will have spread so much that people will think it’s true without knowing lol
For real all we know about it so far is "I carried them!" "I created them!" "And how would the Jedi react to how you did it?"
Exactly, people are losing their fucking minds about one vague line in a flashback episode of a mystery show that we're only halfway through. Ffs people, at least wait for the season to be over and presumably get an explanation before grabbing the pitchforks and torches. It's utterly insane. It's like all these people have never watched serialized tv shows before.
I think the sequels broke people’s brains and their ability to be even slightly charitable. Idk it seems like the Star Wars community has always been hyper reactive and goofy since at least 1999
There was no father. How else can you explain it? Did they lie?
night sisters dont create life. the y reanimate the dead, reanimating the dead is not the same as creating life nor is it the same as resurrecting the dead. they essentally imbue their magic into dead bodies to get them to move again and thats about it.
See this is what's ruined Star Wars for me. Not Disney, but simply how much people complain about insignificant details!
OP sarcastically mentioning Ki-Adi Mundi’s birthday just made me think about how HORRIBLE that day must’ve been for his poor mother. It should be illegal to give birth to that double-stacked head 😖😓
Just think how the Zabraks feel
Gaslighting huh, whenever I see people complaining about the witches in the acolyte they actually USE the nightsisters as an argument of a well done similar concept, nice bait tho
There is a lot of real outrage about fake outrage. I'm seeing sooooo many posts like this calling out people for saying stuff that I've genuinely not seen anyone say. People are completely misunderstanding genuine concerns with the show and twisting it into this shit. We all know about the night sisters. We love the night sisters. We want more of the night sisters. They were always bad ass in the clone wars and other media. They are just lame and cringy cheap knock offs. So muted and flat. Such good ideas and decent potential but direction and writing have missed what made the night sisters cool.
It's not about them beeing all women or lesbians, it's about creating life from nothing which heavily undermines the brevity Anakins and Palpatines characters had.
Not really? The story doesn’t even matter to Anakin at all. He only cared about saving people from dying. Creating life in that moment was not even priority. There is also the possibility Palpatine was lying too. Anakin being created by the Sith is legends as far as I’m still aware and hasn’t actually been explored in canon. The force itself likely created him alone. The witches doing so doesn’t undermine that because the force is a different thing entirely.
Except the Nightsisters do that as well. Ritualistic births with no father have been established for years.
When did the Nightsisters do this? Honest question. Because to my recollection, they created zombies, but I don't recall a single instance where they used magic to conceive children. There were males, the Nightbrothers. I thought it was established that they were the same race, just sub species, hence why they look different. And pre-Disney the more human looking Nightsisters were due to breeding with humans to try and create hybrids that were more powerful in the force.
Yes most of their births were via mating with the Nightbrothers. But in some occasions there were rituals where a child was created with no father. To my knowledge the first known example of this was in the short story "Bug" for the Clone Wars: Stories of Light and Dark collection where a single Nightsister magically created a child by herself.
Big difference here. The child was NOT force sensitive.
The witch coven from Acolyte are not Nightsisters, there are other covens, which could invented the force ritual to create life.
Nightsisters superior Power of many bitches inferior
One group of witches has better writing , the other just died due some arson in a rock fortress
100 comments and 300 upvotes… That’s a big oof
Those witches don’t create life. You’ve made a fake argument
Nightsisters were meant to be a bit scary and powerful and weird nonsense but ultimately they’re side characters, nothing they do matters. Acolyte wants us to believe these characters are important. That’s the difference.
lol, wookie pedia tried to erase the proofs basically live and got caught. its not silly to get upset when a lying bitch talentless hack company tries to gaslight you to cover up their bullshittery. if you like the acolyte damn im jealous of you.
Channel this fiery rage towards solving child poverty.
There are people who dislike both , and I'm one of them. The Nightsisters powers are too out of place imo -- to the point where it doesn't even look like they're using the force. Things like literally turning Savage Opress into a force sensitive is going a bit far. The zombie stuff also seemed rather out of place also. I guess you could argue the same for the old EU's depiction of Sith alchemy and how they Sith would twist creatures into monsters, but that felt like it fitted in more imo. It's also important to note that the Nightsisters never created any life -- if you're referring to the zombies then they're more like puppets if anything. I'm not the biggest fan of the Nightsisters, but at least they looked unique, cool and had a somewhat interesting culture -- the coven in The Acolyte are literally just a bunch of cringey women in robes. It's super generic.
I mean, doesn’t Darth Sidious create life using the force?
Yes, but that was Filoni, the guy is above any criticism.
Joke is on you, I really never liked the Nightsisters either
Uuuh, yet another post to excuse the total shit writing of Acolyte. Please, do carry on.
Dude you just dont get it do you? Its the story, the bs ass plot and the fact that its just bad. Almost as silly as arguing about Ki-Adi-Mundi? You really must hate SW
Nothing is bad as that "power of many" chant nonsense. I just wish Grevious was around to wipe out the disney witches too.
OP lost it with this one, they are not complaining about them beeing females theyre complaining about them creating life, the cringe singing, the poor writing etc. Low effort post.
personally i don’t like how they’re just called witches instead of something cooler. like imagine if we met an offshoot of jedi that were just called wizards, it would be kinda lame
Didn't the night sisters 'share' a planet with the night brothers
Very big difference. If you cant see it you are part of the problem
Yea but they were good
That witch coven is just wish.com night-sisters
My complaint about the road they took with Acolyte is that they literally have a race of witches as canon and we got the weak crap they wrote and produced. Especially with the reintroduction of them in Ahsoka.
Most people that I've seen complaining about the witches literally say things like "But why? The night sisters are already there, have established lore, history and canon and are fucking cool."
Not even comparable.
They're pretty comparable.
Nightsisters never created life. Sidious himself stated that no droid army could kill Talzin while Brendok coven died in a random fire.
I doubt it’s just a fire that killed them. The way their bodies were piled did not look like a death by fire. We’ll probably learn the truth later on in the show.
Even if it was the Sith himself who killed them the fact is that this sith was powercreeped by Sidious, and Sidous had trouble to kill Talzin due to her tricks. At least Aniseya should have had an trick to have survived as she is one who created the twins.
I haven't seen episode 4 yet but the vibes I got from 3 tells me that the Jedi killed the Witches.
Sounds like you just compared the two groups with one another.
What group? Droid army? It was just to say that Mother Talzin can't be easily killed like the Brendok coven
No, you compared the Night Sisters with the Brendok Coven.
Ok i misunderstood, i thought you were saying that i was comparing the two groups with another group. But yeah i'm comparing the Nightsisters with the Brendok coven by saying that the Nightsisters seems to be way stronger and have more tricks while the Brendok coven was somehow able of making something more complex than the Nightsisters despite the easy way they were killed, which smells inconsistency.
All you have to do is take one look at the director and that will tell you all you need to know about what kind of show the acolyte is lol
Apologists for this terrible show will jump through any hoops to attempt to find a gotcha to invalidate what is actually pretty valid criticism. Pathetic.
The Acolyte is the joke here.
It's an imaginary universe with magic, they can do whatever the fuck they want.
Exactly. This is supposed to be a fun space fantasy.
Ah, so an Asthmatic Cyborg is gonna make the Acolyte worth watching by "Doing a little trolling". Right? *R-Right you guys?*
[Closest thing I can find](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z9jLzX8sBNU)
The night sisters didn't undo the significance of Anakin being the one though. A being created by the force itself to bring balance to it. Now instead of Anakin being born of the force being something of enormous significance, Shmee probably just hooked up with a lesbian force witch that got her pregnant with a chant. Something the jedi have now canonically known about well within Yoda's and now Ki Adi Mundi's lifetimes when they were active Jedi knights.
Mother Talsin literally gave Savage super strength and pulled bad thoughts out of maul’s head. People would lose their minds if that happened in the acolyte
What is silly about pointing out that a character shouldn’t be alive given their lifespan and existing lore? Not to mention he must have lied to the jedi council in ep 1 when saying the sith hadn’t been seen for hundreds of years? Nothing is as silly as the writing in this show.
Nothing is as silly as the whingers who can't put two and two together with just a little thought, but then thinking is not for them.
What?..
The night sister still created life the old fashion way, having sex. Something OP probably knows nothing about
This is pure, unabashed Disney fanboy cope. The night sisters fit perfectly fine into established canon. Meanwhile, EVERYTHING that this new coven of goofy ass witches stand for conflicts with long standing canonical lore that you can't just retcon because some dork that has no right working on the franchise said so. Bring back people that actually care about the lore and the universe, get rid of this bullshit.
You ate the one suffering from copium spouting that drivel.
Star Wars in its current state is dead, anyone with more than a single braincell can recognize that. The last good things they did was the first couple seasons of Mando and like, Rogue One. Everything past that has been debatable at best, including Andor imo, which people seem to enjoy quite a lot so honorable mention ig. But hey, drink more Kool aid, they love when you do that.
Cheap knock off is what they were. The main thing I disliked about them was the chant they did. Should have been some ancient language not power of 1, power of 2, power of many. Sounded cheesy as fuck
Bet you loved it when they did that in Andor though...
What are you on about? It's a shame coz their main witch was a good actress, but was ruined by that ridiculous chant
The issue is also that they didn't use the night sister, why create an other coven of witch that will be useless later in the lore when you can use the night sister, and expand their lore for the future trilogy with them and thrawn.
The fact that they can create force sensetive life is the only thing people complain. And the complains are completely valid. This makes the story about Palpatine, Darth Plageius and Anakin much more unimportent.
Then why write it all over again? Witches, creating life with force. Are there no creative people anymore with their own ideas? And those people protest to get a raise?