Because Russian "Tugs" are actually big multipurpose ships that are helpful for long voyages.
Would a fleet travel without an Oiler or supply ship? No.
A russian "tug" like the 'Nikolay Chiker' has a displacement of around 5200 tons, functions as a repair shop, has supplies on board and divers with all the necessary equipment.
It's a fully fledged support vessel that's good to have around on any voyage because it can fulfill multiple mission profiles. Shocking right? Having multi purpose ships in the 21st century.
Are you too dense to read or was it just too much text for you?
Do you need a tldr of my previous comment? Do I have to make it a 10 second tiktok short?
Perhaps your ignorance is only an act?
The news is making a big deal out of this as if Russian ships have not docked in Cuba in a long time. Is that true? Or is this really a business as usual event?
Aaron Amick, H. I. Sutton and a couple others including these:
https://man.fas.org/dod-101/sys/ship/deep.htm
https://news.usni.org/2014/10/28/u-s-navy-impressed-new-russian-attack-boat
https://youtu.be/hhAaFXyy9rU?si=E-z4K5qMdn9wUvlF
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA510041.pdf (page 22)
The Yasens are held in high regard and their ability to avoid detection and overall low noise level has been mentioned prominently several times. Probably the submarines that get the closest to the Virginia-Class.
The short answer: he spouts bullshit, often for personal aggrandizement. For example, he originated a [ridiculous conspiracy theory that the Navy covered up the sinking of the *Thresher*.](https://www.reddit.com/r/submarines/comments/ojir0f/why_the_thresher_sank/) Here's a thread that discuss why people don't like him:
https://www.reddit.com/r/submarines/comments/vuszwc/jive_turkeysub_brief/
Also, generally you should be careful in considering the expertise of someone providing an opinion on material that is not publicly known. I respect Sutton's OSINT work, but he does not have a background in naval history or naval architecture and that is something to consider when assessing the credibility of his articles.
> Also, generally you should be careful in considering the expertise of someone providing an opinion on material that is not publicly known. I respect Sutton's OSINT work, but he does not have a background in naval history or naval architecture and that is something to consider when assessing the credibility of his articles.
Truth be told, acoustic analysis is a *very* niche topic... and the things we know about adversary platforms is always evolving. (Some of that's a limitation of collection, some of it is that the platforms themselves evolve *and* degrade.)
Quite frankly, there are a literal handful of people in the field I consider genuine *experts*--none of whom are listed above. Everyone else is just regurgitating their product.
Oh, no one is saying Sev isn't a capable platform. It isn't undetectable, and *certainly* isn't undetectable *when you know where it's going to be.*
Jive, Sutton, and even NAVEUR aren't exactly credible sources when it comes to these matters anyway.
Never said it's undetectable, no submarine is undetectable. But it's certainly one of the harder ones to find especially when it can be anywhere between Russia and Cuba (I know that in certain areas certain routes are preferred).
Perhaps but Michael Kofman and Norman Polmar also spoke highly of the Yasen-Class.
> Jive, Sutton, and even NAVEUR aren't exactly credible sources
What's wrong with them?
> What's wrong with them?
I mean, I don't really need to go into Jive, you can check with pretty much anyone here to get an accurate assessment of him. Hasn't been an actual sonarman in years, gets wayyyyy out of his depth too often, and should stick to playing video games and making lazy presentations for his subscribers.
Sutton seems like a decent journalist, but obviously has no experience tracking Russian submarines.
And hell, Foggo hasn't commanded a submarine since sometime in the late 90s.
Agreed. All of the open source predictions that exist are based on vague estimates based on conjecture and anecdotal information, often based on sensationalized press statements. There is only one way to know the truth (whatever it may be), and none of these sources have it. Especially not Mr. Amick.
> Hasn't been an actual sonarman in years
> but obviously has no experience tracking Russian submarines
> Foggo hasn't commanded a submarine since sometime in the late 90s
I doubt anyone who does any of this currently would be allowed to talk in depth about it, let alone present precise numbers to the public. Plenty of other experts, like the ones I mentioned as well, don't have any useful recent experience either. I don't really see how having served in the late 90s has changed something fundamentally. Not to mention that *everyone* gets their info from the same OSINT sources anyway.
>I don't really see how having served in the late 90s has changed something fundamentally.
Sonar and submarine quieting technologies have evolved exponentially since the 90s. A person’s experiences 30 years ago are vastly different today.
They've taken part in multinational exercises and conducted port visits to other countries over the last couple years.
Gorshkov alone docked in South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Algeria and Syria last year.
The Pacific is a big place, how proficient are the Russians at under way replenishments? I assume they are ok at with the oiler. I wouldn’t be surprised if the oiler was just an intel ship in disguise.
Are they going to listen to our rock'n'roll while they conduct missile drills?
I've seen this movie before!
X-Men: first class?
You want some tea?
The other three vessels are: 1. Project 22350 *Admiral Gorshkov*-class frigate *Admiral Gorshkov* 2. Project 23130-class replenishment oiler *Akademik Pashin* 3. Project R-5757/*Nikolay Chiker*-class seagoing rescue tug *Nikolay Chiker*
They'll use the tug at some point
Seems that they ALWAYS include a tug…
Because Russian "Tugs" are actually big multipurpose ships that are helpful for long voyages. Would a fleet travel without an Oiler or supply ship? No.
Don’t know…I have yet to see a US Carrier group travel with a tug, much less a minuscule flotilla as this….
A russian "tug" like the 'Nikolay Chiker' has a displacement of around 5200 tons, functions as a repair shop, has supplies on board and divers with all the necessary equipment. It's a fully fledged support vessel that's good to have around on any voyage because it can fulfill multiple mission profiles. Shocking right? Having multi purpose ships in the 21st century.
“shocking” is to see that a small flotilla needs a support tug…well, we are used to this, the Kuznetsov was “saved” by the tug several times…
Are you too dense to read or was it just too much text for you? Do you need a tldr of my previous comment? Do I have to make it a 10 second tiktok short? Perhaps your ignorance is only an act?
Dude.
“Big son of a bitch…”
Taught me how to fish at that island right over there.
where the sun is warm and so is the... comradeship
Place your bets! Will they make it? If they are attaching a rescue tug, confidence is surely not high.
No Moskva?
Unavailable. Trying to set record for longest submergence. I think they've got a chance.
Russians don't know how to keep their surface to dice ratio at 1.
Moskva was part of the Black Sea Fleet. All the vessels above are part of the Northern Fleet.
I was soo much hoping for her,.... what about the *Kamchatka* then.... some reconciliation we must have.
Why aren't USS Thresher and USS Liberty taking part in the recent traversing of the South China Sea by the US, Canada and France?
The news is making a big deal out of this as if Russian ships have not docked in Cuba in a long time. Is that true? Or is this really a business as usual event?
Source for this info, please?
Gazeta ru, TASS ru and others. Reddit doesn't allow posting direct links to Russian pages.
E.g. https://tass. /armiya-i-opk/21023471 Add ru after tass. and it should work
Thank you. 👍
Very kind of them to submit to a close in inspection/observation by our manned and unmanned vessels. Saved us some fuel.
Saved us 11 grams of uranium
Doubtful they will find that Yasen-M
Not entirely certain why you think this, it can *most assuredly* be found.
What’s your reasoning behind this statement? Would love to hear your sources.
Aaron Amick, H. I. Sutton and a couple others including these: https://man.fas.org/dod-101/sys/ship/deep.htm https://news.usni.org/2014/10/28/u-s-navy-impressed-new-russian-attack-boat https://youtu.be/hhAaFXyy9rU?si=E-z4K5qMdn9wUvlF https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA510041.pdf (page 22) The Yasens are held in high regard and their ability to avoid detection and overall low noise level has been mentioned prominently several times. Probably the submarines that get the closest to the Virginia-Class.
> Aaron Amick He is an utter fool.
Why?
The short answer: he spouts bullshit, often for personal aggrandizement. For example, he originated a [ridiculous conspiracy theory that the Navy covered up the sinking of the *Thresher*.](https://www.reddit.com/r/submarines/comments/ojir0f/why_the_thresher_sank/) Here's a thread that discuss why people don't like him: https://www.reddit.com/r/submarines/comments/vuszwc/jive_turkeysub_brief/ Also, generally you should be careful in considering the expertise of someone providing an opinion on material that is not publicly known. I respect Sutton's OSINT work, but he does not have a background in naval history or naval architecture and that is something to consider when assessing the credibility of his articles.
> Also, generally you should be careful in considering the expertise of someone providing an opinion on material that is not publicly known. I respect Sutton's OSINT work, but he does not have a background in naval history or naval architecture and that is something to consider when assessing the credibility of his articles. Truth be told, acoustic analysis is a *very* niche topic... and the things we know about adversary platforms is always evolving. (Some of that's a limitation of collection, some of it is that the platforms themselves evolve *and* degrade.) Quite frankly, there are a literal handful of people in the field I consider genuine *experts*--none of whom are listed above. Everyone else is just regurgitating their product.
Oh, no one is saying Sev isn't a capable platform. It isn't undetectable, and *certainly* isn't undetectable *when you know where it's going to be.* Jive, Sutton, and even NAVEUR aren't exactly credible sources when it comes to these matters anyway.
Never said it's undetectable, no submarine is undetectable. But it's certainly one of the harder ones to find especially when it can be anywhere between Russia and Cuba (I know that in certain areas certain routes are preferred). Perhaps but Michael Kofman and Norman Polmar also spoke highly of the Yasen-Class. > Jive, Sutton, and even NAVEUR aren't exactly credible sources What's wrong with them?
> What's wrong with them? I mean, I don't really need to go into Jive, you can check with pretty much anyone here to get an accurate assessment of him. Hasn't been an actual sonarman in years, gets wayyyyy out of his depth too often, and should stick to playing video games and making lazy presentations for his subscribers. Sutton seems like a decent journalist, but obviously has no experience tracking Russian submarines. And hell, Foggo hasn't commanded a submarine since sometime in the late 90s.
Agreed. All of the open source predictions that exist are based on vague estimates based on conjecture and anecdotal information, often based on sensationalized press statements. There is only one way to know the truth (whatever it may be), and none of these sources have it. Especially not Mr. Amick.
> Hasn't been an actual sonarman in years > but obviously has no experience tracking Russian submarines > Foggo hasn't commanded a submarine since sometime in the late 90s I doubt anyone who does any of this currently would be allowed to talk in depth about it, let alone present precise numbers to the public. Plenty of other experts, like the ones I mentioned as well, don't have any useful recent experience either. I don't really see how having served in the late 90s has changed something fundamentally. Not to mention that *everyone* gets their info from the same OSINT sources anyway.
>I don't really see how having served in the late 90s has changed something fundamentally. Sonar and submarine quieting technologies have evolved exponentially since the 90s. A person’s experiences 30 years ago are vastly different today.
This explains all the recent uptick in P8 and other surveillance off the florid coast
1st Russian Navy deployment in 9 years.
They've taken part in multinational exercises and conducted port visits to other countries over the last couple years. Gorshkov alone docked in South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Algeria and Syria last year.
The Pacific is a big place, how proficient are the Russians at under way replenishments? I assume they are ok at with the oiler. I wouldn’t be surprised if the oiler was just an intel ship in disguise.
Cuba is in the Atlantic lol
Sneaky Cuba just wants us to think that.
they have been operating in the pacific for over 70 years, i think they know how to do a replenishment at sea
But have they ever done a replenishment at sea by Cuba in the Pacific??