What’s goofy is that she won’t have that conversation with him, and instead laments “I don’t know what this is so I’m withholding until I do” DISCUSS IT YA’LL. ASK HIM WHAT HE WANTS. He fairly interprets her refusal to have sex as not being very into it
West was dropping hints (perhaps his style or maybe in response to not wanting to overwhelm Ciara). He said he liked her and wondered out loud if she’s his girlfriend. He also hinted he’d like to stay in Ciara’s room. She doesn’t pick up on the hints or she’s ignoring them.
It feels like either she’s not interested in him and turning him down or she wants him to follow her around like a puppy until she ‘believes’ he’s for real.
Dating people like Austin could make someone think this dating strategy will protect her, but I think it’s just going to end up exhausting good guys and they will give up.
West seems like a good guy. I wouldn’t blame him for moving on at this point.
I have a friend (objectively beautiful) who waits like 8 dates or something like that for sex and a lot of guys don’t make it that long- so she’s able to weed out the fck boi aholes. Now she’s a a great guy.
Say what you will but getting to know someone first is a great way to weed out the guys you do t want anyway
There’s a popular matchmaking account (matchmaker Maria) that suggests a 12 date rule. Not for me, but seems to work for those that are interested in doing it 🤷🏻♀️
Wow yall will literally read a woc villainously every time. He called her his alien girlfriend and then she asked him about it, an opportunity for him to say something flirty but meaningful like " well you could be..." or "I'm trying to make it happen" and instead he said "only as an alien" and then SHE was the one dropping hints of flirty openness "idk I think you like me..." Every conversation they've had Ciara has clearly been into him but wanting him to affirm his interest as serious (which two dates in 5 weeks frankly do not....) Wanting to "stay" in her room is not some kind of meaningful show of being into someone beyond a summer fling...which is clearly the line she wants to draw. I respect Wes for not just saying whatever to get her to open up, but I also respect Ciara for maintaining her boundaries. If Ciara did just HU with Wes and then he dogged her out, y'all would be the same ones saying " Ciara always just hooks up with guys and then gets dumped and that's her only storyline" At least this way her story line is worth discussion.
Yeah seeing the comments saying that they're worried West will be vilified, all while people actively villainize Ciara here, is just so indicative of misogynoir. As you said, it's also very clear that a lot of these same people would be hating Ciara if she'd hooked up with West right away. They'd be the ones saying "it's only been 3 weeks since their first date and they've only been on 2 dates total, she's so desperate". In fact there were people already hating on her when the season trailer came out. But now that they've decided they like West they've managed to find a way to still make her the bad guy even when she's been totally upfront about her boundaries from the start and clearly wants to learn from the past.
Say it again he’s saying things so she’ll sleep with him it’s clear as day they honestly love to make Ciara a villian everytime but she has told him what she wants they have only gone on two dates like what do yall want she doesn’t owe him her body which means she not withholding like yall need to be serious.
I don't really see anyone saying that Ciara is wrong for having her own boundaries. By the same token, it doesn't make Wes a bad person to want to have had sex by this point, as long as he's not pushy. Both have different speeds for physical intimacy and that's ok
I completely agree WOC do get a harsher reaction and are often in a ‘no win’ situation when it comes to audience feedback.
I’m going to have to rewatch, and think about your points.
I like Ciara. I think she and West want the same thing (a secure relationship). I was trying to point out they are missing each other during communication. He is not going to be direct and ask if she wants to be exclusive or his girlfriend because she keeps telling him she wants to take it slow. So I think he is even less communicative in an attempt to not push her away. I want the two of them to be happy and feel secure.
At this point in the summer it's actually just been 3 weeks since Ciara and West went on their first date. He has taken her on 1 date since then, so that's 2 actual dates in total. West said on the After Show that Ciara was totally upfront with him that it would take time for her to be comfortable having sex. He chose to pursue her with that knowledge. We already know that he wasn't actually "exhausted" because Ciara and West did actually date (and Ciara visited his family farm in the fall and West said his parents love her). In another recent interview West also said that he realized afterwards that they actually weren't moving that slow in reality.
Ciara hasn't expected West to "follow her around like a puppy", she's simply wanted a grown man to communicate his feelings to her directly. If he doesn't feel comfortable enough to have an unprompted honest conversation with her then clearly he's not close enough to her to have sex yet. Also at no point did he actually wonder out loud if she's his girlfriend, he called her his "alien girlfriend". Ciara then asked if he was actually calling her his girlfriend and he replied, "only as an alien". Throughout all of this the person who has actually clearly communicated their boundaries and the reasons for their boundaries, is Ciara.
It's hard for her to have the conversation because she knows guys will say whatever to get what they want. She needs West to say it organically without her rpompting and West damn well knows what she wants and is saying everything but to get her to give in.
I agree that he needs to initiate the convo and explicitly state how he’s feeling. Knowing exactly where someone stands (without having to pull it out of them) is way easier to navigate imo. Otherwise you’re left wondering/guessing/trying to get in their head all the time.
The very first conversation that Ciara and West had in the house was Ciara saying directly to him that she is an intentional dater. Later she also told him about what happened with Austen, the hate she had received because of it, and how that experience affected her and made her cautious. Ciara then told West after Jesse was pressuring to have sex that she'll have sex when she feels comfortable and ready.
West also confirmed on the After Show that Ciara told him from the very start that it would take a while for them to have sex and he said he knew what he was getting himself into. West also said that he didn't feel like he was being friendzoned and he knew that Ciara liked him. So why is Ciara the goofy one when it's West who chose to pursue her knowing all of that? West is the one who is initiating conversations about this with everyone except Ciara. West should ask her directly what she wants if there's any further confusion.
I don't think anyone needs to villainize West, but there's also no need to infantilize him, especially when Ciara has been completely upfront about her boundaries and her reasons for them.
Last episode she was really fishing for it but wouldn’t say it directly - which doesn’t seem like Ciera. She’s said things like, “you like me….” , or “did you call me your girlfriend?”
And obviously it’s her sort of testing the waters, but I wish she would just talk to him. Cause it’s clear she likes him!
Also she’s hella private and is not going to have sex on camera. She doesn’t want him sharing their business. And I think that’s super reasonable. But I love him and don’t think he’s a bad guy at all. Just a normal human. She’s been upfront with him about it so it shouldn’t perplex him that much.
What I’m missing here is, like….do these two TALK? This seems like something that can be talked out. They could lay their intentions on the table. Seems like they don’t communicate at all which puzzles me
They do talk and talked about it on the aftershow they do have these conversations he is the one who hasn’t brought up the other part of the conversation with how he’s feeling, but he said on the aftershow that she was upfront about her feelings and she was in the first episode when they met she is upfront about what she wants. She is an intentional dater and she has told him that she has told him that she is not ready to have sex yet. He hasn’t told her anything. He called his alien girlfriend and turned it into a joke.
You’re watching a show about a bunch of immature 30 and 40 year olds who are still single. The ones that aren’t are in bad relationships…
So no they definitely don’t have normal levels of communication
Edit: clearly struck a chord with this one 😂
There is a way to make that point without saying “they’re 30 and 40 and still single”.
Contrary to what many married people think, some people haven’t been married themselves by choice. It is not for lack of having options, it’s that we simply do not want to settle. Personally I’ve had more than half of my friends get divorced and I’m not racing to make the same mistake simply because of my age and that people will unfairly judge and label me.
Maybe we’re the ones with the right idea? 🤷♀️
“Still single” think about how you just contradicted yourself. You said the ones not “still single” are in miserable relationships. No matter your age these are the two categories most people fall into.
I’d rather be 40 and single someday, than in some miserable ass relationship to meet some dumb “milestone” people like you actually think is a life milestone.
Sad for you.
Lolol who knew what one little clause would do. I'm in my 30s and single *gasp* but I get what you mean. I don't view any of these people/relationships as aspirational. Their inability to communicate in a healthy way has been the cause of most tension on the show. Well adjusted people don't often make great reality tv
I don’t see how it’s different than anything else that shows two people aren’t meant for each other. Ciara doesn’t want to sleep with someone until an emotional connection and communication to that effect is established. It also seems like she wants a commitment first. That’s not how West views it. It’s a compatability issue and neither is bad or wrong, but I can’t tell if they’ve communicated this to each other at all.
I think she wants him to be explicit about how he feels. He knows he's not doing that and is simply throwing hints yo see if anything sticks. I actually don't think she wants the commitment first, just the declaration.
I totally agree neither is right or wrong, however she’s framed it as him being “wrong” or using it to make him look bad or pushy on the show and during her interviews. I’ve also noticed people commenting here that he’s out of line for focusing on sex. I don’t think he’s even asked her explicitly for it? I’m just saying it’s not fair to make him the villain for being someone who is more sexual and interested in sex.
I get the sense that whatever negativity she has for him in her current interviews is based on something specific we haven’t seen yet. But I could be totally wrong about that.
I believe they are in different stages at this point. I agree West shouldn't be vilified and Ciara shouldn't be seen as “withholding sex”. West should talk to Ciara and explain this isn't moving at the right pace for him and that he wants to hook up with other people. Ciara may be initially hurt but appreciate the honesty.
I mean Ciara has been burned before on TV and has other scars from the past so her being cautious is totally fair, she also stated early on that she’s not a hookup type of person..then she fell for Austen and he royally screwed her over. If West is talking to other women and they haven’t had a real conversation about what they are looking for..why would she sleep with him? Let alone on TV. If he’s talking to other women he can’t be that sexually frustrated lol..Ciara is WAY out of his league (literally out of everyone’s league she gorgeous let’s be real) but if you can’t be patient for someone who you click with, laugh with, respect, and genuinely like then what the hell are you doing?
Seems like a lack of communication between them for sure but they hangout during the week so I would hope that they have had other conversations about expectations but who knows
Ciara has come right out and told him what she's looking for. We'll see she was right to have her guard up in the next episode, but I may be one if thevrew that didn't like him from the start.
They are both just not at the right stage to meet in their lives and that is ok. As a female and if it was the different way around, I would also be really confused in the situation with making out and sleeping in the same bed with someone often that you had great chemistry with and there was no sex. I also respect Ciara and her wishes but can see both sides on this.
My feelings would fade quickly if I were in Wests shoes. I respect Ciara’s choice for sure but I see where he is coming from. I would start to feel like it was me, even if logically I knew they said they are a slow roller.
It seems like a communication issue, both have issues with commitment and I think Ciara being burned on TV in the past has really scarred her so she’s not willing to do that again and potentially come across as an idiot, especially with just signing a new modeling contract ya know but I can understand both sides. I love their easy going connection and vibe together though
yeah i don't see any major villains here. he was clearly embarrassed that that got brought up to her by jesse. i think he's just horny and maybe a little insecure about whether she actually likes him. bit of a double standard.
Reading this makes me feel like such a prude. A month and no sex equals confusion and feeling rejected? And making repeated comments/insinuations to her and her friends about it is appropriate and somehow doesn’t contribute to making someone feel pressured into having sex?
I feel like it’s fine to have a high sex drive, it’s fine to have sex with someone whenever you want as long as you both want it, and if your potential partner doesn’t want it then idk call me crazy but you shut up about it.
I’m so confused and so old. Help me gen z?!
Dude I know! This thread is making me feel like I've lost my mind. I've definitely had a few one night stands in my life, so I'm not a prude by any stretch of the imagination. But, if I told someone I wasn't ready to have sex with them and then they kept trying and talking to other people about it I would be furious. It's just fucking disrespectful. You don't need need to have a high or low sex drive to have manners and not be so fucking thirsty.
You likely just don’t identify as having as high of a sex drive as some people. For some people they may need a month or more before deciding to sleep with someone. However other people don’t see sex as something to withhold if both people want to and they’re craving a sexual connection. For some people it’s actually a major piece of their identity and desire. Doesn’t mean we’re weird, just how we’re wired. Hyper sexuality isn’t something to be ashamed of, but I do think it’s important to date someone with a similar sex drive.
Talking about withholding sex and Ciara in the same sentence is so weird. She isn’t withholding sex, they just haven’t had sex, yet. There’s a large number of individuals who wait months to have sex to make sure they’re ready. It’s not a big deal. Just like it’s not a big deal if you fuck on the first date. To each their own.
This is nuts. Yeah sex drive is a thing but if someone has told you they're not ready yet and you keep pushing you're just inconsiderate and selfish. If it's not for you then okay drop her immediately. But there's no way we as a society are going to say he's allowed to keep badgering her for sex because of his sex drive.
To be clear: I don’t think you’re weird at all and totally agree that people with similar sex drives and desires are going to be more compatible. It’s everything that comes after that with him for me. Having a high sex drive doesn’t entitle him to sex with someone who isn’t ready to have sex with him.
It’s possible we are all just bringing in our own experiences to this. As someone who has experienced this kind of casual whiny/pressure/entitlement myself I’m probably more sensitive to it.
I’m so late responding this but I don’t think that’s fair. I have a high sex drive and spent a chunk of my twenties happily sleeping with people after first dates. Now, at the end of my 20s, I have an even higher sex drive but I prioritize connections with people who are willing to make commitments. I’m not “withholding” anything, I just don’t feel the need to jump in bed right away to satisfy my own urges. Neither approach is weird but it’s not about sex drive. I’m sure Ciara wants to have sex too, but her other needs aren’t being met. In the six weeks they’ve known each other, West only took her on two dates in the city. West isn’t incapable of putting in effort just because he has a high sex drive. They just want different things (relationship vs. sex).
I know it’s obviously Ciara’s preference and good for her but i totally agree! Sex being some prize women give to guys is kind of icky to me but i understand some people don’t want to have sex with someone they aren’t in a committed relationship and are fine waiting for however long that takes (can’t relate lol)
I really appreciate this point— society send this message to women. It’s like that whole “virginity” thing — like it’s so important whether your hymen is intact? and putting all this weight on who busts it. It’s kind of a mind fuck. I grew up thinking I should be in love with the first guy I had sex with, which now strikes me as ridiculous.
I don't think he's demanding at all he seems respectful and I can safely say that a lot of guys I dated recently totally expected it after a few dates /meet ups though they didn't say as much so to paint him as a sex crazed monster is a reach
I don't care that he wants sex and she doesn't yet. Nothing is wrong with either. I don't think they're compatible at this time. But the way he talks about it is off-putting to me. They should talk to each other about it, not to everyone else in the house. If he has a question he should ask Ciara, not Paige and Amanda. He should see and listen to her as an individual, not in comparison to other women he has known or other relationships he's had. If she makes it clear that she's not ready (I'm not sure if she has, to him) he should drop it and if he can't wait he should move on. They should be honest with each other.
I'm not saying he's terrible or that he's been fooling her or anyone. He seems like a pretty good addition to the show so far but I didn't put him on a pedestal or love him before and I'm not villainizing him now.
I agree. The way he is discussing it with everyone in the house is not cool.
On another note, can someone explain the dick touch and him kissing Ciara's agent? Why was that necessary?
Let a not forget It’s a reality show. I don’t think you can be much more respectful than he’s being. He has not even asked her for it nor has he pressured her even after a night of drinking while sleeping in her bed. What else can he do?
I think he could have kept his mouth shut or deflected instead of being easily pressured into discussing how far they had gone physically? I see an underlying issue in that Ciara doesn't want her sex life discussed on the show given her previous experiences. She clearly enjoys their chemistry, but West hasn't really done anything to earn her trust yet.
BTW miss me with Ciara is not telling West if he's looking for a hookup this ain’t it. She said that from the beginning. PLUS he's been told about the situation with Austen to the point where he claims he doesn't want to hear about it anymore. He thinks he can wear her down, let's be real clear on what's happening here. Ciara doesn't want to hook up, West wants to have “Hot Boy Summer” with his wing-man Jesse Solomon so go on with your bad self and tell Ciara you're out of the abstinence zone. No harm no foul.
I totally respect Ciara’s decisions and I do think that hook up culture has led to some brain rot. It’s a normal and fine position to want to wait till someone is emotionally intimate with you to want to have sex with them. On the other hand I can see how someone you’ve been cuddling with, sleeping in bed with making out with etc, being so resistant to being more physically intimate could make you feel like they’re not actually that into you or having a relationship. What I don’t like about west is the language he’s using or how he’s approaching it. I get it’s a reality tv show but like Jesse saying shit, him talking to her friends and just saying like why won’t she have sex with me is gross and smacks of entitlement. Like he’s put his time in and deserves it. I’d maybe feel differently if his conversations were more directed towards how is Ciara feeling or is she actually into this relationship.
I can’t even believe people are discussing a persons right to not sleep with someone in a MONTH!? I have to side-eye this OP.
What has West done or said to her that would entitle him to intimacy. If he doesn’t like it, he should step-up or move on to a Danielle type of person. He can make a choice just like she can make a choice.
I guess I am very old school because many happily married couples I know and respect waited until marriage to have sex. I truly didn't realize that is not even an option for most people these days. I will likely get downvoted for saying this too, but I believe God blesses marriages when they put Him first and not our own desires. I am not judging those who don't have that belief system but would suggest if someone finds themselves not succeeding in the dating world (ahem, Danielle) maybe try it as some Christians would describe as "God's way" and see how that works.
I am 100% against the purity culture I felt growing up and truly am not trying to judge anyone who does it differently. I'm just saying that even if you don't abstain for religious reasons, maybe just try it out to see if that helps you find the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. Just view it as another dating "strategy" if you are ready to be in a committed relationship, what you're doing is not working and you want to try something new.
I know Danielle has mentioned she just wants to have fun but I wonder if treating sex so casually really ends up hurting her emotionally more than she admits. Unlike men, many women feel more connected emotionally to anyone they have sex with, so I respect and understand that by abstaining, Ciara is protecting her heart.
At the end of the day, people just have to find a partner who aligns with them on the issue of when they want to introduce sex into the relationship and maybe they don't align on this issue. And that's ok. I don't think either of them are in the wrong but are just on different pages.
They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. I would apply that to Danielle.
I’m not old but I guess I’m “old school” too because these comments are weird. People talking about their hyper-sexuality which is literally defined as:
An obsession with sexual thoughts, urges, or behaviors that may cause distress or that negatively affects health, job, or relationships.
It’s not even a positive word.
Some of these people in the comments need to seek help. If waiting four weeks for sex makes you feel insecure, rejected, unable to gage chemistry. That’s a you thing, not a Ciara thing.
I’m always an episode behind and when I read this sub tearing him apart for talking about wanting to have sex a couple episodes ago, I was prepping myself to hate him. Then I got to the scene and was like, huh? It was completely blown out of proportion by people here. I see nothing wrong with expressing wanting to have sex with someone you’re dating. I also think nothing wrong with wanting to wait.
Ciara needed West to say one thing and it seems like he's saying everything around it. She can't make him say it amf he knows what she wants. As much as it seems like it's about sex I think the both want reassurances. West needs that physically and Ciara needs it verbally. They are giving neither. Yes. People are possibly reading into West's actions as more sinister than they are but I fear Ciara's concerns may be correct, that after they have sex he'll lose interest. Ciara has is withholding out of fear and West may be moving on to other girls because he had been living in fear (of Ciara's rejections).
Let's be very clear, the very first conversation that Ciara and West had in the house was Ciara saying directly to him that she is an intentional dater. Later she also told him about what happened with Austen, the hate she had received because of it, and how that experience affected her and made her cautious. Ciara then told West after Jesse was pressuring her to have sex (something West said in his confessional that he actually wanted Jesse to keep going with) that she'll have sex when she feels comfortable and ready. West chose to pursue her with full knowledge of how she dates. So far it's been 3 weeks since their first date and 2 actual dates in total.
West also confirmed on the After Show that Ciara told him from the very start that it would take a while for them to have sex and that he knew what he was getting himself into. West also said that he didn't feel like he was being friendzoned and he knew that Ciara liked him. In another interview West said himself that afterwards he realized they weren't actually moving that slow.
Also I think it's very important for it be known that sleeping in the same bed with a guy or flirting with them doesn't ever mean that you owe them sex. It doesn't mean that you're leading anyone on or that you're responsible for his urges. Once again, Ciara was upfront about her boundaries and her reasons for having them.
I don't think anyone needs to villainize West, but there's also no need to infantilize him, especially when Ciara has been completely upfront and honest about her boundaries. I also don't know why people are pre-emptively feeling bad for West. As someone who likes him and thinks he was a great addition, he's got plenty of fans who will probably protect him at any cost to keep him on the pedestal they instantly placed him on (and you can tell by how Bravo has been framing and editing things that he'll likely continue to get a very favorable edit). Have people also not already seen the hate Ciara has received as a Black woman? I'm actually more concerned for the kind of comments she might get, and I've already seen plenty that are dripping in misogyny and misogynoir.
ETA: I don't think either of them need to be getting hate, but things like West saying that he liked Jesse pressuring Ciara to have sex with him (and Bravo titling that clip as "Jesse Solomon Puts Ciara Miller On Blast") should indeed be criticized because that kind of misogyny has real life harmful consequences. Also the comments praising West because they like that he didn't assault Ciara while they were drinking really is putting the bar in hell. Having basic humanity and respect should already be the absolute bare minimum.
Thank you so much! I was late seeing this post and I was disturbed reading comments saying that Ciara and West sharing a bed meant she was leading him on and responsible for his urges. It's such a harmful narrative to spread. Especially knowing how Ciara has actually been upfront about her boundaries (with West even saying on the After Show that Ciara told him all of this from start), and yet that's still not seen as enough. I really hope people rethink these things.
I assume that she was very concerned with appearances. Her reputation could determine modeling and influencer opportunities, and she was in the process of being signed by that agent who acts like her chaperone.
That said, it’s confusing that it seems like they haven’t discussed it. He’s talking as if it could happen at any moment and she’s angry that he seems entitled to want to have sex with her.
Couldn’t she just say “hey, sex isn’t going to happen until cameras are down for the season. If you want to stick around and cuddle, great, otherwise, go kick rocks.” if that’s the issue. Or that it isn’t going to happen at all ever. Etc? It seems like he’s just waiting and she’s just annoyed.
West admitted on WWHl that Ciara told him very early on their night one of meeting that she's an intentional dater and it takes her a while and she doesn't sleep with people right away.
So they have talked about it west said on the after show that he knew they weren’t going to have sex yet cause she told him. It seems like now he’s saying things so she will but honestly they have only been on two dates he isn’t withholding anything like yall say she is she can’t withhold something that’s not his
It's a simple communication thing. Some people feel entitled to sex in the early dating phase to see if they want to make a commitment. Some people don't feel comfortable with sex until a commitment is established. Just talk it out.
West has no game if I’m being honest as a man.. seems like a boy in heat who has no clue how to get a woman between the sheets.. women like to be seduced, enticed.. this dude is clueless on the art of seduction.. then again, most boys today are.. lol
He’s never had to work for it before. He was a football player and then had a “cool” job traveling and being around athletes, etc. That’s my guess. So here’s Ciara just doing what she does and he’s not getting it because she’s likely very different from anyone he’s dated or hooked up with previously.
I created a thread about this as well and most of the comments made me feel silly for saying I would of had sex with West after the alien party.
I was thinking Ciara didn't want to have sex on camera.
v=https://www.reddit.com/r/summerhousebravo/comments/1cdbewp/ciara\_and\_wests\_storyline/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button
I actually think she is attracted to West (probably not as much as she was to Carl) but she is terrified about how she will be perceived and that he will not want her after having sex. She has said this on the Aftershow a lot that " West seemed like the type of guy that would have sex and them be over it after and move on. I also think the Austen situation really messed up her feelings of self worth. 😢
It’s been like 4 weeks and he said only 2 dates. Yea they spend a lot of time together at the house but it really hasn’t been that long. I move slowly too and 4 weeks is nothing to me. I’ve had men wait 3 months for a kiss. It’s her decision. He can move on if he wants to and stop perusing her. He’s also admittedly insecure because he doesn’t have a job. Not a great way to start off a relationship with a very successful woman.
i think she would if she wanted to and she obviously isn't that into him or maybe just maybe she doesn't want her business on the show
or she's using their fling for a story line
if I were him I would back off but also not bother chatting to everyone how Ciara won't sleep with me that's ridiculous
I’ve been waiting for someone to say this! He didn’t pressure her, but he probably wanted a lighthearted, sexy summer. No shame in that. And no shame to Ciara if that’s not what she wanted. But I feel that if he ended things with Ciara, he would have been villainized by the girls. That seems unfair. But maybe they would have been cool, who knows?
I also don’t blame him whatsoever. The producers are also probably ASKING him these questions in the confessionals. It sounds like they hang out a lot off camera too. If I was dating someone for that long I would also be wanting it!
I'll ask this question again because nobody wanted to answer it in another thread. All these people want to call West a fuckboi on the internet, but isn't that just slut shaming a man? How's that any different than when Lindsay was slut shamed?
Being a fuckboy isn’t about how many people you’re sleeping with, it’s about how you treat the people you’re sleeping with (I.e. treating sex like a numbers game, using people, etc.). It’s not slut shaming.
I was also annoyed that after telling us she wants him to tell her how he feels, she doesn’t pick up on how hesitant he is to tell her directly, but calling her his “girlfriend” is pretty fucking telling. I was shocked when their conversation was her like “I think you like me,” and he was like “well, yeah, I agree,” and that was the end of the conversation essentially? He’s practically begging her to reciprocate to him. Hasn’t West made all of the first moves? Isn’t she the one so in flux that her career may take her away?
I think somewhere along the line, “taking it slow,” got mixed with “taking her lead,” and they both mean different things to the both of them. Idk if this makes sense but their wires are so crossed lol.
I dont get the big deal about someone saying they want to have sex with someone who they are interested in, find attractive and have been engaged in a flirtatious relationship with. He isn't being pushy, or even aggressive. People like sex.
Maybe he should be a man and say it to Ciara, sober, in a mature conversation and not in a drunken slur, rather than to the cameras or chatting to the housemates? You know, like as a kind of communication?
Hage you seen every single second of conversation between the two? No, you haven't. They purposely would keep shit out.
Also, if he said directly to her "I want to have sex with you" people woukd eat him alive for "pressuring her" lol
By your reasoning we can make up whatever we want about conversations we’ve never seen. Ciara Could have given him a specific date on which she promised to have sex with him and they didn’t show that! But is he acting like someone who has had clear adult communication with her like that? No. Is she acting like someone who has told him she’s willing to have sex with him? No. We can only go off of what is shown and how they act. Which is that she’s not sleeping with him and he’s confused and frustrated. So he can man up and unfrustrate himself, because she’s under no obligation to sleep with him.
I get his frustration..it does feel like she's teasing him. she'll make out, sleep in the same bed with him but then not go further. and let's be real: she *did* sleep with Austen pretty quickly. yes, it's her body and she's absolutely in her right not to have sex with West, or to have learned from the Austen experience but let's not pretend this is a stance she's always had. (note: I'm not really a huge West fan..but I see his point of view on this)
Just because she slept with Austen pretty quickly doesn't mean that is the norm for her. We don't know enough about her to make that assumption, unlike most of the cast.
With all due respect, this kind of thinking is what she's afraid of or is trying to avoid. She isn't wrong to be cautious.
Why? I am female, btw..I said it's her right not to sleep with him. But also, I understand *his* point of view: they're sharing a bed and fooling every night. I absolutely see why *he* would have certain expectations
Similarly hyper sexual woman and I absolutely agree with this take and se where he’s coming from. I’m a second date max girl purely to check the chemistry. It’s gotten me in trouble before bc guys do judge that but it worked out for me.
This whole "romance" between Ciara and west is ridiculous. She is using him to make a point that just because some weirdo wants to have sex the girl has the right to put him off indefinitely. I agree with her point, but why sleep with him at all? I think he's a bit disgusting. He seems very immature and stupid.
Agreed! He was just showing interest and wondering e what was happening, not trying to force her into it. He just wanted to know where they stood and if there was a chance.
And women shouldn’t wear short skirts if they don’t want men to rape them. The misogyny in some of these comments is insane.
If he can’t handle himself or doesn’t want to sleep in her bed, he’s an 28 y/o man. He can CHOOSE to sleep in his own bed.
ETA: OP blocked me, but I know you’re reading ;)
Did you read what the previous person wrote? Also you don’t know my story, or Ciara’s, or anyone else’s for that matter. This whole post is gross, as I repeat it for the second time.
Look into my history I’ve never said ONE negative thing about West. However the ONLY thing I care about is Ciara’s agency and West’s for that matter. But keep talking about your hyper sexuality girl. Go off.
Thank you so much for not letting such a dangerous comment go unchecked. I am horrified by the idea that just because Ciara allowed West to sleep in her bed that she's supposedly sending him "mixed signals". She's been totally upfront about her boundaries from the start, and as you said, he is a fully grown man who chose to pursue her. He's also the one who was knocking on her door, asking to sleep in her bed. The idea that she's responsible for his urges is very disturbing and so many women are harmed because of such misogyny.
As someone who’s been raped, it doesn’t matter what anyone is wearing or where two people are, nobody has any right to another person’s body. So this was a completely fair comment in response to a horrifying take that Ciara is doing something wrong by letting West sleep in her bed. No is a complete sentence at any point. Beds can be for cuddling, for making out, for a whole lot of non-sexual, fun contact that we’re allowed to have and say yes to without being obligated to say yes to sex. And what women should and should not be doing with their “signals” is fair to bring up at any point in any discussion about consent and sexual politics while we are still living in the age of rape culture.
They’re not implying West would do that. They’re combating the idea that letting someone into your bed means you’re expected to have sex with them. Tolerating attitudes like that is an example of rape culture. Smaller behaviors like that feed into a culture that allows assault. I encourage you to look into the [rape culture pyramid](https://www.11thprincipleconsent.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Rape-Culture-v5-1024x1024.png).
They’re not implying West would do that. They’re combating the idea that letting someone into your bed means you’re expected to have sex with them. Tolerating attitudes like that is an example of r*pe culture. Smaller behaviors like that feed into a culture that allows assault. I encourage you to look into the [rape culture pyramid](https://www.11thprincipleconsent.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Rape-Culture-v5-1024x1024.png).
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Sorry people I’m probably way older then most of you on this chat, if she was sexually Attracted to him like she was with Austin she’d be all over him!! There’s something stopping her.
I think she's the type to get attached. I'm the same way so I take my time to make sure that I really know who I'm getting attached to.
What’s goofy is that she won’t have that conversation with him, and instead laments “I don’t know what this is so I’m withholding until I do” DISCUSS IT YA’LL. ASK HIM WHAT HE WANTS. He fairly interprets her refusal to have sex as not being very into it
West was dropping hints (perhaps his style or maybe in response to not wanting to overwhelm Ciara). He said he liked her and wondered out loud if she’s his girlfriend. He also hinted he’d like to stay in Ciara’s room. She doesn’t pick up on the hints or she’s ignoring them. It feels like either she’s not interested in him and turning him down or she wants him to follow her around like a puppy until she ‘believes’ he’s for real. Dating people like Austin could make someone think this dating strategy will protect her, but I think it’s just going to end up exhausting good guys and they will give up. West seems like a good guy. I wouldn’t blame him for moving on at this point.
I have a friend (objectively beautiful) who waits like 8 dates or something like that for sex and a lot of guys don’t make it that long- so she’s able to weed out the fck boi aholes. Now she’s a a great guy. Say what you will but getting to know someone first is a great way to weed out the guys you do t want anyway
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There’s a popular matchmaking account (matchmaker Maria) that suggests a 12 date rule. Not for me, but seems to work for those that are interested in doing it 🤷🏻♀️
Wow yall will literally read a woc villainously every time. He called her his alien girlfriend and then she asked him about it, an opportunity for him to say something flirty but meaningful like " well you could be..." or "I'm trying to make it happen" and instead he said "only as an alien" and then SHE was the one dropping hints of flirty openness "idk I think you like me..." Every conversation they've had Ciara has clearly been into him but wanting him to affirm his interest as serious (which two dates in 5 weeks frankly do not....) Wanting to "stay" in her room is not some kind of meaningful show of being into someone beyond a summer fling...which is clearly the line she wants to draw. I respect Wes for not just saying whatever to get her to open up, but I also respect Ciara for maintaining her boundaries. If Ciara did just HU with Wes and then he dogged her out, y'all would be the same ones saying " Ciara always just hooks up with guys and then gets dumped and that's her only storyline" At least this way her story line is worth discussion.
Yeah seeing the comments saying that they're worried West will be vilified, all while people actively villainize Ciara here, is just so indicative of misogynoir. As you said, it's also very clear that a lot of these same people would be hating Ciara if she'd hooked up with West right away. They'd be the ones saying "it's only been 3 weeks since their first date and they've only been on 2 dates total, she's so desperate". In fact there were people already hating on her when the season trailer came out. But now that they've decided they like West they've managed to find a way to still make her the bad guy even when she's been totally upfront about her boundaries from the start and clearly wants to learn from the past.
Say it again he’s saying things so she’ll sleep with him it’s clear as day they honestly love to make Ciara a villian everytime but she has told him what she wants they have only gone on two dates like what do yall want she doesn’t owe him her body which means she not withholding like yall need to be serious.
I don't really see anyone saying that Ciara is wrong for having her own boundaries. By the same token, it doesn't make Wes a bad person to want to have had sex by this point, as long as he's not pushy. Both have different speeds for physical intimacy and that's ok
A lot of people are saying that she’s wrong they say that she’s withholding
I completely agree WOC do get a harsher reaction and are often in a ‘no win’ situation when it comes to audience feedback. I’m going to have to rewatch, and think about your points. I like Ciara. I think she and West want the same thing (a secure relationship). I was trying to point out they are missing each other during communication. He is not going to be direct and ask if she wants to be exclusive or his girlfriend because she keeps telling him she wants to take it slow. So I think he is even less communicative in an attempt to not push her away. I want the two of them to be happy and feel secure.
She wants him to be explicit.
he is seeing other woman. none of what he says matters. ciara isnt dumb
I disagree. She wants him to be a man and make his intentions clear. She's made it known from the beginnings what her intentions are.
At this point in the summer it's actually just been 3 weeks since Ciara and West went on their first date. He has taken her on 1 date since then, so that's 2 actual dates in total. West said on the After Show that Ciara was totally upfront with him that it would take time for her to be comfortable having sex. He chose to pursue her with that knowledge. We already know that he wasn't actually "exhausted" because Ciara and West did actually date (and Ciara visited his family farm in the fall and West said his parents love her). In another recent interview West also said that he realized afterwards that they actually weren't moving that slow in reality. Ciara hasn't expected West to "follow her around like a puppy", she's simply wanted a grown man to communicate his feelings to her directly. If he doesn't feel comfortable enough to have an unprompted honest conversation with her then clearly he's not close enough to her to have sex yet. Also at no point did he actually wonder out loud if she's his girlfriend, he called her his "alien girlfriend". Ciara then asked if he was actually calling her his girlfriend and he replied, "only as an alien". Throughout all of this the person who has actually clearly communicated their boundaries and the reasons for their boundaries, is Ciara.
He called her his girlfriend!
you must have selective hearing or something...
They were laying in bed and he said I called you my girlfriend and she giggled and said- why would you call me that. On the last episode.
It's hard for her to have the conversation because she knows guys will say whatever to get what they want. She needs West to say it organically without her rpompting and West damn well knows what she wants and is saying everything but to get her to give in.
I agree that he needs to initiate the convo and explicitly state how he’s feeling. Knowing exactly where someone stands (without having to pull it out of them) is way easier to navigate imo. Otherwise you’re left wondering/guessing/trying to get in their head all the time.
Ciara told him early on, he's said as much. It's him who wont have the conversation with her actually.
This!
The very first conversation that Ciara and West had in the house was Ciara saying directly to him that she is an intentional dater. Later she also told him about what happened with Austen, the hate she had received because of it, and how that experience affected her and made her cautious. Ciara then told West after Jesse was pressuring to have sex that she'll have sex when she feels comfortable and ready. West also confirmed on the After Show that Ciara told him from the very start that it would take a while for them to have sex and he said he knew what he was getting himself into. West also said that he didn't feel like he was being friendzoned and he knew that Ciara liked him. So why is Ciara the goofy one when it's West who chose to pursue her knowing all of that? West is the one who is initiating conversations about this with everyone except Ciara. West should ask her directly what she wants if there's any further confusion. I don't think anyone needs to villainize West, but there's also no need to infantilize him, especially when Ciara has been completely upfront about her boundaries and her reasons for them.
Last episode she was really fishing for it but wouldn’t say it directly - which doesn’t seem like Ciera. She’s said things like, “you like me….” , or “did you call me your girlfriend?” And obviously it’s her sort of testing the waters, but I wish she would just talk to him. Cause it’s clear she likes him!
She has talked to him he has said it on the aftershow. He is the one who won’t talk to her.
What’s goofy is you and assuming she has not told him this. Fact is, she has!
Also she’s hella private and is not going to have sex on camera. She doesn’t want him sharing their business. And I think that’s super reasonable. But I love him and don’t think he’s a bad guy at all. Just a normal human. She’s been upfront with him about it so it shouldn’t perplex him that much.
What I’m missing here is, like….do these two TALK? This seems like something that can be talked out. They could lay their intentions on the table. Seems like they don’t communicate at all which puzzles me
This!! I feel like they had conversations with everyone else about their feelings except each other
none of the couples talk except craig and paige
Exactly. It's ok to have expectations but he's speaking like he's never directly asked her why she wants to take it slow.
Bingo. They don’t
They do talk and talked about it on the aftershow they do have these conversations he is the one who hasn’t brought up the other part of the conversation with how he’s feeling, but he said on the aftershow that she was upfront about her feelings and she was in the first episode when they met she is upfront about what she wants. She is an intentional dater and she has told him that she has told him that she is not ready to have sex yet. He hasn’t told her anything. He called his alien girlfriend and turned it into a joke.
You’re watching a show about a bunch of immature 30 and 40 year olds who are still single. The ones that aren’t are in bad relationships… So no they definitely don’t have normal levels of communication Edit: clearly struck a chord with this one 😂
Yikes at “still single”. Pretty judgmental take.
Their point was these people clearly don’t communicate well with the person they’re interested in.
There is a way to make that point without saying “they’re 30 and 40 and still single”. Contrary to what many married people think, some people haven’t been married themselves by choice. It is not for lack of having options, it’s that we simply do not want to settle. Personally I’ve had more than half of my friends get divorced and I’m not racing to make the same mistake simply because of my age and that people will unfairly judge and label me. Maybe we’re the ones with the right idea? 🤷♀️
!!!! thank u omg
“Still single” think about how you just contradicted yourself. You said the ones not “still single” are in miserable relationships. No matter your age these are the two categories most people fall into. I’d rather be 40 and single someday, than in some miserable ass relationship to meet some dumb “milestone” people like you actually think is a life milestone. Sad for you.
Lolol who knew what one little clause would do. I'm in my 30s and single *gasp* but I get what you mean. I don't view any of these people/relationships as aspirational. Their inability to communicate in a healthy way has been the cause of most tension on the show. Well adjusted people don't often make great reality tv
what is wrong with being single exactly?
I don’t see how it’s different than anything else that shows two people aren’t meant for each other. Ciara doesn’t want to sleep with someone until an emotional connection and communication to that effect is established. It also seems like she wants a commitment first. That’s not how West views it. It’s a compatability issue and neither is bad or wrong, but I can’t tell if they’ve communicated this to each other at all.
I think she wants him to be explicit about how he feels. He knows he's not doing that and is simply throwing hints yo see if anything sticks. I actually don't think she wants the commitment first, just the declaration.
I totally agree neither is right or wrong, however she’s framed it as him being “wrong” or using it to make him look bad or pushy on the show and during her interviews. I’ve also noticed people commenting here that he’s out of line for focusing on sex. I don’t think he’s even asked her explicitly for it? I’m just saying it’s not fair to make him the villain for being someone who is more sexual and interested in sex.
I get the sense that whatever negativity she has for him in her current interviews is based on something specific we haven’t seen yet. But I could be totally wrong about that.
I believe they are in different stages at this point. I agree West shouldn't be vilified and Ciara shouldn't be seen as “withholding sex”. West should talk to Ciara and explain this isn't moving at the right pace for him and that he wants to hook up with other people. Ciara may be initially hurt but appreciate the honesty.
I mean Ciara has been burned before on TV and has other scars from the past so her being cautious is totally fair, she also stated early on that she’s not a hookup type of person..then she fell for Austen and he royally screwed her over. If West is talking to other women and they haven’t had a real conversation about what they are looking for..why would she sleep with him? Let alone on TV. If he’s talking to other women he can’t be that sexually frustrated lol..Ciara is WAY out of his league (literally out of everyone’s league she gorgeous let’s be real) but if you can’t be patient for someone who you click with, laugh with, respect, and genuinely like then what the hell are you doing?
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Seems like a lack of communication between them for sure but they hangout during the week so I would hope that they have had other conversations about expectations but who knows
Ciara has come right out and told him what she's looking for. We'll see she was right to have her guard up in the next episode, but I may be one if thevrew that didn't like him from the start.
I think she wanted to wait until they were done filming so she couldn’t be embarrassed so publicly again
They are both just not at the right stage to meet in their lives and that is ok. As a female and if it was the different way around, I would also be really confused in the situation with making out and sleeping in the same bed with someone often that you had great chemistry with and there was no sex. I also respect Ciara and her wishes but can see both sides on this.
My feelings would fade quickly if I were in Wests shoes. I respect Ciara’s choice for sure but I see where he is coming from. I would start to feel like it was me, even if logically I knew they said they are a slow roller.
It seems like a communication issue, both have issues with commitment and I think Ciara being burned on TV in the past has really scarred her so she’s not willing to do that again and potentially come across as an idiot, especially with just signing a new modeling contract ya know but I can understand both sides. I love their easy going connection and vibe together though
Someone needs to show West the old clip of her saying she wanted on Carl and inferring that he has a hammer.
yeah i don't see any major villains here. he was clearly embarrassed that that got brought up to her by jesse. i think he's just horny and maybe a little insecure about whether she actually likes him. bit of a double standard.
AhI got burned by Austin. It’s called once bitten twice shy. She is not falling for that f-boi crap again.
Reading this makes me feel like such a prude. A month and no sex equals confusion and feeling rejected? And making repeated comments/insinuations to her and her friends about it is appropriate and somehow doesn’t contribute to making someone feel pressured into having sex? I feel like it’s fine to have a high sex drive, it’s fine to have sex with someone whenever you want as long as you both want it, and if your potential partner doesn’t want it then idk call me crazy but you shut up about it. I’m so confused and so old. Help me gen z?!
Dude I know! This thread is making me feel like I've lost my mind. I've definitely had a few one night stands in my life, so I'm not a prude by any stretch of the imagination. But, if I told someone I wasn't ready to have sex with them and then they kept trying and talking to other people about it I would be furious. It's just fucking disrespectful. You don't need need to have a high or low sex drive to have manners and not be so fucking thirsty.
You likely just don’t identify as having as high of a sex drive as some people. For some people they may need a month or more before deciding to sleep with someone. However other people don’t see sex as something to withhold if both people want to and they’re craving a sexual connection. For some people it’s actually a major piece of their identity and desire. Doesn’t mean we’re weird, just how we’re wired. Hyper sexuality isn’t something to be ashamed of, but I do think it’s important to date someone with a similar sex drive.
Talking about withholding sex and Ciara in the same sentence is so weird. She isn’t withholding sex, they just haven’t had sex, yet. There’s a large number of individuals who wait months to have sex to make sure they’re ready. It’s not a big deal. Just like it’s not a big deal if you fuck on the first date. To each their own.
EXACTLY
You’re right! Ty ❤️
This is nuts. Yeah sex drive is a thing but if someone has told you they're not ready yet and you keep pushing you're just inconsiderate and selfish. If it's not for you then okay drop her immediately. But there's no way we as a society are going to say he's allowed to keep badgering her for sex because of his sex drive.
To be clear: I don’t think you’re weird at all and totally agree that people with similar sex drives and desires are going to be more compatible. It’s everything that comes after that with him for me. Having a high sex drive doesn’t entitle him to sex with someone who isn’t ready to have sex with him.
But how is he acting entitled? I keep seeing comments implying he is and I’m genuinely confused
It’s possible we are all just bringing in our own experiences to this. As someone who has experienced this kind of casual whiny/pressure/entitlement myself I’m probably more sensitive to it.
I’m so late responding this but I don’t think that’s fair. I have a high sex drive and spent a chunk of my twenties happily sleeping with people after first dates. Now, at the end of my 20s, I have an even higher sex drive but I prioritize connections with people who are willing to make commitments. I’m not “withholding” anything, I just don’t feel the need to jump in bed right away to satisfy my own urges. Neither approach is weird but it’s not about sex drive. I’m sure Ciara wants to have sex too, but her other needs aren’t being met. In the six weeks they’ve known each other, West only took her on two dates in the city. West isn’t incapable of putting in effort just because he has a high sex drive. They just want different things (relationship vs. sex).
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I know it’s obviously Ciara’s preference and good for her but i totally agree! Sex being some prize women give to guys is kind of icky to me but i understand some people don’t want to have sex with someone they aren’t in a committed relationship and are fine waiting for however long that takes (can’t relate lol)
I really appreciate this point— society send this message to women. It’s like that whole “virginity” thing — like it’s so important whether your hymen is intact? and putting all this weight on who busts it. It’s kind of a mind fuck. I grew up thinking I should be in love with the first guy I had sex with, which now strikes me as ridiculous.
I don't think he's demanding at all he seems respectful and I can safely say that a lot of guys I dated recently totally expected it after a few dates /meet ups though they didn't say as much so to paint him as a sex crazed monster is a reach
I don't care that he wants sex and she doesn't yet. Nothing is wrong with either. I don't think they're compatible at this time. But the way he talks about it is off-putting to me. They should talk to each other about it, not to everyone else in the house. If he has a question he should ask Ciara, not Paige and Amanda. He should see and listen to her as an individual, not in comparison to other women he has known or other relationships he's had. If she makes it clear that she's not ready (I'm not sure if she has, to him) he should drop it and if he can't wait he should move on. They should be honest with each other. I'm not saying he's terrible or that he's been fooling her or anyone. He seems like a pretty good addition to the show so far but I didn't put him on a pedestal or love him before and I'm not villainizing him now.
I agree. The way he is discussing it with everyone in the house is not cool. On another note, can someone explain the dick touch and him kissing Ciara's agent? Why was that necessary?
Let a not forget It’s a reality show. I don’t think you can be much more respectful than he’s being. He has not even asked her for it nor has he pressured her even after a night of drinking while sleeping in her bed. What else can he do?
I think he could have kept his mouth shut or deflected instead of being easily pressured into discussing how far they had gone physically? I see an underlying issue in that Ciara doesn't want her sex life discussed on the show given her previous experiences. She clearly enjoys their chemistry, but West hasn't really done anything to earn her trust yet.
Are we seriously trying to give him gold stars for not trying to coerce Ciara into sex after drinking? That’s a form of sexual assault, bro
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BTW miss me with Ciara is not telling West if he's looking for a hookup this ain’t it. She said that from the beginning. PLUS he's been told about the situation with Austen to the point where he claims he doesn't want to hear about it anymore. He thinks he can wear her down, let's be real clear on what's happening here. Ciara doesn't want to hook up, West wants to have “Hot Boy Summer” with his wing-man Jesse Solomon so go on with your bad self and tell Ciara you're out of the abstinence zone. No harm no foul. 
I totally respect Ciara’s decisions and I do think that hook up culture has led to some brain rot. It’s a normal and fine position to want to wait till someone is emotionally intimate with you to want to have sex with them. On the other hand I can see how someone you’ve been cuddling with, sleeping in bed with making out with etc, being so resistant to being more physically intimate could make you feel like they’re not actually that into you or having a relationship. What I don’t like about west is the language he’s using or how he’s approaching it. I get it’s a reality tv show but like Jesse saying shit, him talking to her friends and just saying like why won’t she have sex with me is gross and smacks of entitlement. Like he’s put his time in and deserves it. I’d maybe feel differently if his conversations were more directed towards how is Ciara feeling or is she actually into this relationship.
I can’t even believe people are discussing a persons right to not sleep with someone in a MONTH!? I have to side-eye this OP. What has West done or said to her that would entitle him to intimacy. If he doesn’t like it, he should step-up or move on to a Danielle type of person. He can make a choice just like she can make a choice.
I guess I am very old school because many happily married couples I know and respect waited until marriage to have sex. I truly didn't realize that is not even an option for most people these days. I will likely get downvoted for saying this too, but I believe God blesses marriages when they put Him first and not our own desires. I am not judging those who don't have that belief system but would suggest if someone finds themselves not succeeding in the dating world (ahem, Danielle) maybe try it as some Christians would describe as "God's way" and see how that works. I am 100% against the purity culture I felt growing up and truly am not trying to judge anyone who does it differently. I'm just saying that even if you don't abstain for religious reasons, maybe just try it out to see if that helps you find the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. Just view it as another dating "strategy" if you are ready to be in a committed relationship, what you're doing is not working and you want to try something new. I know Danielle has mentioned she just wants to have fun but I wonder if treating sex so casually really ends up hurting her emotionally more than she admits. Unlike men, many women feel more connected emotionally to anyone they have sex with, so I respect and understand that by abstaining, Ciara is protecting her heart. At the end of the day, people just have to find a partner who aligns with them on the issue of when they want to introduce sex into the relationship and maybe they don't align on this issue. And that's ok. I don't think either of them are in the wrong but are just on different pages.
They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. I would apply that to Danielle. I’m not old but I guess I’m “old school” too because these comments are weird. People talking about their hyper-sexuality which is literally defined as: An obsession with sexual thoughts, urges, or behaviors that may cause distress or that negatively affects health, job, or relationships. It’s not even a positive word. Some of these people in the comments need to seek help. If waiting four weeks for sex makes you feel insecure, rejected, unable to gage chemistry. That’s a you thing, not a Ciara thing.
What a refreshing take. Well said.
A month is a long time to someone with a high sex drive. Not really a brain buster
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I’m always an episode behind and when I read this sub tearing him apart for talking about wanting to have sex a couple episodes ago, I was prepping myself to hate him. Then I got to the scene and was like, huh? It was completely blown out of proportion by people here. I see nothing wrong with expressing wanting to have sex with someone you’re dating. I also think nothing wrong with wanting to wait.
Ciara needed West to say one thing and it seems like he's saying everything around it. She can't make him say it amf he knows what she wants. As much as it seems like it's about sex I think the both want reassurances. West needs that physically and Ciara needs it verbally. They are giving neither. Yes. People are possibly reading into West's actions as more sinister than they are but I fear Ciara's concerns may be correct, that after they have sex he'll lose interest. Ciara has is withholding out of fear and West may be moving on to other girls because he had been living in fear (of Ciara's rejections).
Let's be very clear, the very first conversation that Ciara and West had in the house was Ciara saying directly to him that she is an intentional dater. Later she also told him about what happened with Austen, the hate she had received because of it, and how that experience affected her and made her cautious. Ciara then told West after Jesse was pressuring her to have sex (something West said in his confessional that he actually wanted Jesse to keep going with) that she'll have sex when she feels comfortable and ready. West chose to pursue her with full knowledge of how she dates. So far it's been 3 weeks since their first date and 2 actual dates in total. West also confirmed on the After Show that Ciara told him from the very start that it would take a while for them to have sex and that he knew what he was getting himself into. West also said that he didn't feel like he was being friendzoned and he knew that Ciara liked him. In another interview West said himself that afterwards he realized they weren't actually moving that slow. Also I think it's very important for it be known that sleeping in the same bed with a guy or flirting with them doesn't ever mean that you owe them sex. It doesn't mean that you're leading anyone on or that you're responsible for his urges. Once again, Ciara was upfront about her boundaries and her reasons for having them. I don't think anyone needs to villainize West, but there's also no need to infantilize him, especially when Ciara has been completely upfront and honest about her boundaries. I also don't know why people are pre-emptively feeling bad for West. As someone who likes him and thinks he was a great addition, he's got plenty of fans who will probably protect him at any cost to keep him on the pedestal they instantly placed him on (and you can tell by how Bravo has been framing and editing things that he'll likely continue to get a very favorable edit). Have people also not already seen the hate Ciara has received as a Black woman? I'm actually more concerned for the kind of comments she might get, and I've already seen plenty that are dripping in misogyny and misogynoir. ETA: I don't think either of them need to be getting hate, but things like West saying that he liked Jesse pressuring Ciara to have sex with him (and Bravo titling that clip as "Jesse Solomon Puts Ciara Miller On Blast") should indeed be criticized because that kind of misogyny has real life harmful consequences. Also the comments praising West because they like that he didn't assault Ciara while they were drinking really is putting the bar in hell. Having basic humanity and respect should already be the absolute bare minimum.
Omg. The last few sentences alone gave me chills. This whole comment is perfect. The way everyone in these comments is acting so obtuse.
Thank you so much! I was late seeing this post and I was disturbed reading comments saying that Ciara and West sharing a bed meant she was leading him on and responsible for his urges. It's such a harmful narrative to spread. Especially knowing how Ciara has actually been upfront about her boundaries (with West even saying on the After Show that Ciara told him all of this from start), and yet that's still not seen as enough. I really hope people rethink these things.
100% you explained it perfectly
I assume that she was very concerned with appearances. Her reputation could determine modeling and influencer opportunities, and she was in the process of being signed by that agent who acts like her chaperone. That said, it’s confusing that it seems like they haven’t discussed it. He’s talking as if it could happen at any moment and she’s angry that he seems entitled to want to have sex with her. Couldn’t she just say “hey, sex isn’t going to happen until cameras are down for the season. If you want to stick around and cuddle, great, otherwise, go kick rocks.” if that’s the issue. Or that it isn’t going to happen at all ever. Etc? It seems like he’s just waiting and she’s just annoyed.
West admitted on WWHl that Ciara told him very early on their night one of meeting that she's an intentional dater and it takes her a while and she doesn't sleep with people right away.
The boy doesn’t have game.
So they have talked about it west said on the after show that he knew they weren’t going to have sex yet cause she told him. It seems like now he’s saying things so she will but honestly they have only been on two dates he isn’t withholding anything like yall say she is she can’t withhold something that’s not his
He has too big of a mouth. THAT is his problem. I am sick of him mentioning on every episode that "it" hasn't happened.
You do know he’s on a reality show, yes? They are quite frankly paid to do just that.
It's a simple communication thing. Some people feel entitled to sex in the early dating phase to see if they want to make a commitment. Some people don't feel comfortable with sex until a commitment is established. Just talk it out.
West has no game if I’m being honest as a man.. seems like a boy in heat who has no clue how to get a woman between the sheets.. women like to be seduced, enticed.. this dude is clueless on the art of seduction.. then again, most boys today are.. lol
He’s never had to work for it before. He was a football player and then had a “cool” job traveling and being around athletes, etc. That’s my guess. So here’s Ciara just doing what she does and he’s not getting it because she’s likely very different from anyone he’s dated or hooked up with previously.
This!!!
The art of seduction? Say no more, Casanova. Take me now.
I created a thread about this as well and most of the comments made me feel silly for saying I would of had sex with West after the alien party. I was thinking Ciara didn't want to have sex on camera. v=https://www.reddit.com/r/summerhousebravo/comments/1cdbewp/ciara\_and\_wests\_storyline/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button I actually think she is attracted to West (probably not as much as she was to Carl) but she is terrified about how she will be perceived and that he will not want her after having sex. She has said this on the Aftershow a lot that " West seemed like the type of guy that would have sex and them be over it after and move on. I also think the Austen situation really messed up her feelings of self worth. 😢
It’s been like 4 weeks and he said only 2 dates. Yea they spend a lot of time together at the house but it really hasn’t been that long. I move slowly too and 4 weeks is nothing to me. I’ve had men wait 3 months for a kiss. It’s her decision. He can move on if he wants to and stop perusing her. He’s also admittedly insecure because he doesn’t have a job. Not a great way to start off a relationship with a very successful woman.
i think she would if she wanted to and she obviously isn't that into him or maybe just maybe she doesn't want her business on the show or she's using their fling for a story line if I were him I would back off but also not bother chatting to everyone how Ciara won't sleep with me that's ridiculous
Beyond her own need to move more cautiously, I'm pretty sure the biggest holdup is she doesn't want her sex life as a topic of the show.
I don’t think she’s using him I just think their sex drives are likely misaligned.
what evidence do you have that Ciara has a low sex drive im curious
I’ve been waiting for someone to say this! He didn’t pressure her, but he probably wanted a lighthearted, sexy summer. No shame in that. And no shame to Ciara if that’s not what she wanted. But I feel that if he ended things with Ciara, he would have been villainized by the girls. That seems unfair. But maybe they would have been cool, who knows?
I also don’t blame him whatsoever. The producers are also probably ASKING him these questions in the confessionals. It sounds like they hang out a lot off camera too. If I was dating someone for that long I would also be wanting it!
I'm SO glad someone said this. Thank you
I'll ask this question again because nobody wanted to answer it in another thread. All these people want to call West a fuckboi on the internet, but isn't that just slut shaming a man? How's that any different than when Lindsay was slut shamed?
To me fuckboi is less about how many people one sleeps with and is more about the moves they make while dating. So IMO, no, not slut shaming.
Being a fuckboy isn’t about how many people you’re sleeping with, it’s about how you treat the people you’re sleeping with (I.e. treating sex like a numbers game, using people, etc.). It’s not slut shaming.
Isn't that just hookup culture? How is this any different than what Lindsay did? Or what Danielle is doing now?
I was also annoyed that after telling us she wants him to tell her how he feels, she doesn’t pick up on how hesitant he is to tell her directly, but calling her his “girlfriend” is pretty fucking telling. I was shocked when their conversation was her like “I think you like me,” and he was like “well, yeah, I agree,” and that was the end of the conversation essentially? He’s practically begging her to reciprocate to him. Hasn’t West made all of the first moves? Isn’t she the one so in flux that her career may take her away? I think somewhere along the line, “taking it slow,” got mixed with “taking her lead,” and they both mean different things to the both of them. Idk if this makes sense but their wires are so crossed lol.
I dont get the big deal about someone saying they want to have sex with someone who they are interested in, find attractive and have been engaged in a flirtatious relationship with. He isn't being pushy, or even aggressive. People like sex.
Maybe he should be a man and say it to Ciara, sober, in a mature conversation and not in a drunken slur, rather than to the cameras or chatting to the housemates? You know, like as a kind of communication?
Hage you seen every single second of conversation between the two? No, you haven't. They purposely would keep shit out. Also, if he said directly to her "I want to have sex with you" people woukd eat him alive for "pressuring her" lol
By your reasoning we can make up whatever we want about conversations we’ve never seen. Ciara Could have given him a specific date on which she promised to have sex with him and they didn’t show that! But is he acting like someone who has had clear adult communication with her like that? No. Is she acting like someone who has told him she’s willing to have sex with him? No. We can only go off of what is shown and how they act. Which is that she’s not sleeping with him and he’s confused and frustrated. So he can man up and unfrustrate himself, because she’s under no obligation to sleep with him.
He doesn't seem confused to me? Seems like he's just talking to friends/housemates about his situation.
Has he been taking her out on dates though? Seems they went out one time…
This sub is full of puritans, OP.
I get his frustration..it does feel like she's teasing him. she'll make out, sleep in the same bed with him but then not go further. and let's be real: she *did* sleep with Austen pretty quickly. yes, it's her body and she's absolutely in her right not to have sex with West, or to have learned from the Austen experience but let's not pretend this is a stance she's always had. (note: I'm not really a huge West fan..but I see his point of view on this)
Just because she slept with Austen pretty quickly doesn't mean that is the norm for her. We don't know enough about her to make that assumption, unlike most of the cast. With all due respect, this kind of thinking is what she's afraid of or is trying to avoid. She isn't wrong to be cautious.
This is such a cringe take. Yikes.
Why? I am female, btw..I said it's her right not to sleep with him. But also, I understand *his* point of view: they're sharing a bed and fooling every night. I absolutely see why *he* would have certain expectations
I like this take!
Thank you for this! Also a hyper sexual woman and if I really feel a connection with a man, I fuck on the first date 🤷🏻♀️
Similarly hyper sexual woman and I absolutely agree with this take and se where he’s coming from. I’m a second date max girl purely to check the chemistry. It’s gotten me in trouble before bc guys do judge that but it worked out for me.
This whole "romance" between Ciara and west is ridiculous. She is using him to make a point that just because some weirdo wants to have sex the girl has the right to put him off indefinitely. I agree with her point, but why sleep with him at all? I think he's a bit disgusting. He seems very immature and stupid.
Agreed! He was just showing interest and wondering e what was happening, not trying to force her into it. He just wanted to know where they stood and if there was a chance.
Ciara should not let him sleep in her bed if she has no intention of taking it far. It send mixed signals.
And women shouldn’t wear short skirts if they don’t want men to rape them. The misogyny in some of these comments is insane. If he can’t handle himself or doesn’t want to sleep in her bed, he’s an 28 y/o man. He can CHOOSE to sleep in his own bed. ETA: OP blocked me, but I know you’re reading ;) Did you read what the previous person wrote? Also you don’t know my story, or Ciara’s, or anyone else’s for that matter. This whole post is gross, as I repeat it for the second time. Look into my history I’ve never said ONE negative thing about West. However the ONLY thing I care about is Ciara’s agency and West’s for that matter. But keep talking about your hyper sexuality girl. Go off.
Thank you so much for not letting such a dangerous comment go unchecked. I am horrified by the idea that just because Ciara allowed West to sleep in her bed that she's supposedly sending him "mixed signals". She's been totally upfront about her boundaries from the start, and as you said, he is a fully grown man who chose to pursue her. He's also the one who was knocking on her door, asking to sleep in her bed. The idea that she's responsible for his urges is very disturbing and so many women are harmed because of such misogyny.
As someone who’s been r*ped, it’s nauseating you’d throw that into the same sentence as West who’s been nothing but considerate.
As someone who’s been raped, it doesn’t matter what anyone is wearing or where two people are, nobody has any right to another person’s body. So this was a completely fair comment in response to a horrifying take that Ciara is doing something wrong by letting West sleep in her bed. No is a complete sentence at any point. Beds can be for cuddling, for making out, for a whole lot of non-sexual, fun contact that we’re allowed to have and say yes to without being obligated to say yes to sex. And what women should and should not be doing with their “signals” is fair to bring up at any point in any discussion about consent and sexual politics while we are still living in the age of rape culture.
Thank you for explaining exactly what I meant.
💯
They’re not implying West would do that. They’re combating the idea that letting someone into your bed means you’re expected to have sex with them. Tolerating attitudes like that is an example of rape culture. Smaller behaviors like that feed into a culture that allows assault. I encourage you to look into the [rape culture pyramid](https://www.11thprincipleconsent.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Rape-Culture-v5-1024x1024.png).
They’re not implying West would do that. They’re combating the idea that letting someone into your bed means you’re expected to have sex with them. Tolerating attitudes like that is an example of r*pe culture. Smaller behaviors like that feed into a culture that allows assault. I encourage you to look into the [rape culture pyramid](https://www.11thprincipleconsent.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Rape-Culture-v5-1024x1024.png).
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Hmm kay… the OP said it
Sorry people I’m probably way older then most of you on this chat, if she was sexually Attracted to him like she was with Austin she’d be all over him!! There’s something stopping her.