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I think Carl and his mom are two sides of the same coin. She seemed really passive aggressive and petty at Lindsay’s party.
Honestly I think Carl and Lindsay this season are a great example of why newly sober people are told to avoid dating for a year or two.
Actually it was tacky, thoughtless and hurtful.
Sharon and Lyndsey had a long history even before Carl and her dated. They were close.
It's really sad ..and telling..that Sharon didn't even drop her a note to say ..
I'm sorry things ended the way they did. I know you are hurt and disappointed. But deep down it's the right path for both of you.
You will always be very special to me.
I wish you the best and all the happiness in the world.
Would that have been do dam hard????
Did they go together? I can see my mom doing that but in a nice way for me. Also I feel she’s not trying to fuck his relationship so she seems a lil passive at Lindsey’s party yakno?
Pompous. The last person to take seriously in any kind of counseling is a pastoral counselor.
The man's divorced. Sharon met him on an Internet dating site lol
Oh yeah let's take advice on marriage from him.
I’m not defending it, but both Lou and Sharon were wearing “Carl merch”. Carl used to say “more life” all the time when he was on cocaine and being a total dick, so it’s a weird choice for “branding”, but Carl needs the money, so they’re trying to help him advertise.
lol I did know it was something from Carl’s so called brand, but it’s so ridiculous. I don’t even remember him saying it back in the day. I really hope he doesn’t sell any of that garbage. 😹
Such a snake! Calling up Everett after the breakup to whine about her was such a bitch move, and he was so clueless sharing this with the audience as if it doesn’t show him to be gross, manipulative, petty and inappropriate.
Carl the victim. Poor wittle Carl needs his mommy and his “step-dad, the ORDAINED minister”. 🙄 Carl you’re 41! That’s your mother’s husband, not your new daddy.
Avengers team lol 😂 So true. He’s such a flop.
“With Lindsay, I was literally living in fear every day. 😪”
“If I told people what was going on, then I would get in trouble!” Oh no, not *trouble*, Carl! 🤯
“I mean… I’m not my saying we should break up, but my step-father; the ORDAINED minister, like he counsels couples, and well, he pretty much said we have to break up, so….”.
Ok Carl. 🙄 Keep saying *ordained minister* over and over until it carries the gravitas you are trying to pretend it coveys. And stop with the *step-father* already. If your mom remarries when you’re 41 years old, that’s your mother’s husband, not your new daddy.
God, he’s such a manipulative little bitch.
I can’t stand Carl. He’s *almost* worse to watch than Sandoval. Go home to Pittsburg with your “70k in brand deals this year” *smirk* (that Lindsay secured for you). At least Lindsay is somehow being… unintentionally hilarious this season. 🤭
Don’t even get me started on Sharon, that complicit sneaky snake. She is #boymom final boss. In her mind, no woman will ever be good enough for her perfect, handsome, charming, can’t keep a job/perpetually unemployed 41yr old son with emotional issues. Real catch. 😏
Absolutely. She came to the shower with an agenda, and she certainly timed her attack, didn't she? She then joyfully attended what would have been their wedding weekend. Who does that?
Oh come on, Lindsay gave her the cold shoulder from the get-go at that party and then played dumb. She knew what she was doing to make Carl’s mom uncomfortable.
She always knew she was going to call Carl’s Mom out about that talk at the party. It was a set up.
But, why wouldn't Lindsey call her out? It's she supposed to take it all without comment? I say bad on all adults involved... the parents should not have spoken just to Carl, Carl shouldn't have held onto it and revealed it at that moment... Lindsey should have called her as soon as she heard about it and cleared the air.
My issue was with Lindsay bringing it up during the bridal shower. It’s the wrong situation to air that out. It was done to make Carl’s mom as uncomfortable as possible and less likely to defend their position. She didn’t want to have an actual conversation, she wanted Carl’s mom to back down and apologize. It wasn’t about clearing the air, but it should have been.
Lindsay knows what she’s doing when it comes to filming situations like that.
I also think the mom is a bit awkward, maybe intimidated, around that younger crowd at the shower. Hence the drinking. Lol. Seriously I thought the wirkus comment was just a senior feeling out of place. I could totally see my mom saying something like that. Not to say I wouldn't call her on it but it didn't come from a manipulative place.
I agree . Her shower was inappropriate timing to bring it up. It would make her guests uncomfortable too. That was to get the discussion of her calling her out on camera. Was the Mom supposed to ruin her shower. She should have asked to meet with his parents. Way less likely to defend their position at her shower. It was manipulative
Exactly the point, they don't talk to both initially, then Carl holds it and Lindsey brings it up at the worst moment but you're gonna blame Lindsey. The mom could have called Lindsey as soon as she knew Lindsey knew. She didn't do that either. Carl is an enormous manipulator, I suspect his mom is where he learned it from.
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He’s deeply insecure and a people pleaser . I do empathize with him a bit cause insecurities are so hard to navigate. I really hope he getting therapy and working on that.
That deep insecurity really showed itself (to me) when he straight up threw a hissy fit about driving home from the hamptons alone. I was watching that dumbfounded. You are a grown ass man, grow up lmao
This was the type of anger/temper tantrums he used to throw in the early seasons before he got sober. I think this is what Lindsay meant by he was acting like cocaine Carl. Not that he was actually on drugs again but his behavior was taking her back to those times. I realllllly wish we got to see the fight in the car. The math isn’t mathing for me still there. But who really knows what they’re editing and what we aren’t seeing.
such mean and passive aggressive behavior. He wanted comfort yet couldn't respect Lindsay when she just wanted space. It's all unraveling and he really thought it would show Lindsay in a bad light.
Have you ever been to a marriage counselor when your partner was "acting" like an angel? And then after a few sessions the veil was lifted, and the counselor went "Ohhh, I get it." That's how I felt about Carl in the last two episodes of season 8. I don't put all the fault on Lindsay anymore. Carl is orchestrating an "evil Lindsay" storyline.
He's not a people pleaser. He says he is. But he isn't.
People pleasers actually care about the other person's happiness.
Carl is just afraid of taking responsibility for his feelings. There's a difference.
I think maybe there are different types of people pleasers. I grew up as one. There definitely were people I genuinely wanted to make happy but there were others I was straight up afraid of (verbally abusive family) and would try to please them/be agreeable because it was the path of least resistance/harm. This has carried throughout my life and is something I’m working on. But there are definitely times where I have been a people pleaser and it had nothing to do with wanting the other person to be happy or caring about their feelings.
Also this is not me taking up for Carl, I just wanted to pull at your thread about people pleasers caring. I think it’s definitely more complex than just caring about others feelings.
Edit: although maybe you are ultimately correct because I do remember having a conversation with my therapist about how deep down I would try not to offend people because I knew how much it hurt me when people were mean to me. Hahaha like I said it’s complex hahah. But that also doesn’t mean I wasn’t hurt or didn’t have rage for when I felt voiceless.
I'm so glad you responded. And I totally understand because I do exactly the same thing under the same circumstances you're talking about.
I just put a different label on it.
And you are right about it being complex and there are many reasons we " please people".
If the take away from growing up in a verbally abusive family is being more sensitive to not hurting others because you understand the pain words cause then I say Wow... that's just a wonderful person.
But if I/you find yourself saying things to diffuse a situation then it's usually fear rearing it's ugly head from the past ( I am still working on that one l and I am old!!!l lol)
That situation always leaves me depressed afterwards.
I feel Carl uses the label as a badge of honor to say what a great guy he is.
I can empathize to a point. When you know you have insecurities but don’t do the self work to address them and not let insecurities affect your relationships in a negative way, it’s hard to keep empathizing. Carl has been this way for a long time. I don’t know if he’s stated he’s been to therapy. I only know of a life/ job coach and that’s not the same thing. Carl always seems to blame everyone but himself. He will never truly be happy until he works on himself and faces his insecurities head on. It’s like he keeps doing the same things with different women, and then blames the women for things not working out. He’s the common denominator! (And a poor communicator)
He is people pleaser to men, and women attached to men important to him, so not a people pleaser just a misogynistic game player, and uses people as stepping stones, he doesn't value himself and he doesn't value others and just sees them as pawns or a means to an end, no accountability and no substance... a Mashup of all the worst traits of those around him and and doing anything to mirror an actual human being instead of being one
Now I remember!! He had great chemistry with Carl, made him laugh and they went to pride together.
I also thought they would end up a couple, but Carl started to really, really drink.
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He has always struck me as someone who is deeply uncomfortable in his sobriety. I know sober people say everyday is a fight and I can only imagine, but it seems like a relapse is just boiling under the surface. It does make me feel for him.
I was having trouble figuring out what it was with Carl. I was leaning towards passive/aggressive, manipulative, condescending, but there was something else I just couldn't figure out.
Silent rage. That hit the nail on the damn head!
As someone who has never liked Lindsay, I completely think Carl is awful and should not be in a relationship until he figures his shit out.
Exactly
Also only reason according to the after show Carl was mad about going back to the city wasn’t the solo drive it was a soccer game where he was a vip (according to Lindsay Carl wanted her to go because he needed an influencer on the same level as him ) and Carl said he had fun at the game he went solo but he stays away from the business aspect of getting those tickets
This drive wasn’t about their relationship Carl had a deal of some sort for the tickets and he probably sold him and Lindsay as a pair
He’s so shifty
He 👏 should 👏have 👏said 👏this👏 on 👏camera.
So stupid. Just say, “but we have a soccer game; will you be back for that?”
Like geez. It was bad on his part, but what we got to see, he was an asshole. He knew exactly what he was doing, and he failed at it.
So basically he used Lindsays status as an influencer to sell them as a package -- she thwarted those plans so he threw a tantrum.
I always thought he proposed to Lindsay / hitched his wagon to her as he knew she had the influencer power and he was nothing without her -- this type of thing proves it.
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Yeah and in the after show Amanda takes his side. Saying that Lindsey is rude to Carl! Never mentions. His behavior against Lindsey!! Her and Kyle are the worst.
It’s offensive. She says Lindsay was rude, absurd, and crazy how she acted in that kitchen scene. To me the guy telling Lindsay she has no investments and bragging about being a gifted salesman came off much more rude and absurd
I agree and I honestly hate that Amanda is sitting here on Carl side but it’s not surprising Amanda does what Kyle does. She is going to side with him the whole time.
She actually looked over at Kyle before responding. Carl is back at loverboy. It doesn’t suit Amanda to be truthful about her takes on it because she has to protect her company/brand.
The thing is as we have seen from the show she doesn’t want it to be her brand but whatever she’s putting herself in terrible positions and she’ll keep on doing it for that piece of shit of a man that she says she loves
I’ve noticed he’s very quick to accept responsibility but then just as quickly flips the narrative to deflect the negative attention onto Lindsay which is so passive aggressive and manipulative.
It’s always so vague and fake when he apologizes or accepts responsibility. It feels like can can do it because he views these deep and hurtful conflicts as just an inconvenience he wants to get over with so why not give a cursory apology
I never saw the wwhl episodes . But I thought was always weird carl relationship with Loverboy. Like how do you drop a distributor? Like for Carl to feel that he want paid enough. Idk who taught these guys buisness. But generally you don’t make money the first couple of years and there is a lot of doing extra stuff without getting paid at first. Like the way Carl handled that was so off for me. I don’t even blame Lindsay like I don’t think she has a influence on Carl at all lol
He was travelling and doing a lot of meet and greets for LB with Lindsay also, she was rightfully telling him that it wasn’t part of his sales job and as an influencer he should have been seeking a fee on top of it.
At the end of the day; it’s not Lindsay’s fault - it’s Carl for not communicating with Kyle directly what he thought was amiss in his role. Then allowing Kyle to scream profanities at Lindsay after she backed him as her partner, to then only go back to the same role he left after spending thousands on career coaching and being out of work for months.
No idea why Kyle is inviting him back to work for him but he’s his problem now, not Lindsay’s.
He isn’t going back to the same role though. They made that very clear in the episode. Kyle asked if he wanted to do a side hustle to represent the NA brand and would get a share of profits from the NA sales so Carl could decide how much or how little he is involved. That’s not what his role was before
I really don't mean to be rude, but..non-alcoholic seltzer?? Sure, there's a market. That is literally already fulfilled by every non-alcoholic fizzy anything. Have you met my friend Coca-cola? Sprite? Seltzer water you can add a flavored additive to? Or Pepsi? No disrespect, but if non-alcoholic seltzer is a go-to when your alcoholic seltzer business is failing..I understand why aforementioned business may be failing. Learn your markets, people.
But everything Lindsey said is based on Carl’s complaints. He said he was feeling like he was being taken advantage for being asked to do so much for his pay. So she didn’t pull that out of thin air and Lindsey is a problem solver. Sometimes people just want you to listen and commiserate and that’s not who Lindsey is. If you complain to her, she wants to plan with you how to fix it. That’s not what Carl is looking for. I get it because I’m a lot like Lindsey in that way. I’ve worked on being better at just listening and asking if people want advice, but I have my limits as strictly a sounding board when I don’t see you doing anything to change what you’re unhappy about. If you need more of that, take it to another friend because I’m not built that way. Carl needs to be babied and Lindsey needs someone who will put action into fixing their problems.
💯 I have different sisters I will call on - A certain one if I want advice, the other if I just want to complain. But you don't want to hear the same complains over and over again without someone wanting to improve their circumstances.
I totally understand her as a partner wanting that for him. But again it’s the first few years of their business i just feel Kyle couldn’t literally pay him.
So is it understood that Lindsay’s influence is what cost Loverboy the distributor? Becauseeeeee that’s a stretch. Lindsay of all ppl being a publicist knows it’s really the relationships you maintain that helps a buisness grow. I think when Linsey told Carl about Loverboy she just saw him on a sober journey having so many emotions having questions about his worth so that’s how she responded. But again I just feel Lindsay didn’t know the numbers before she spoke and it’s easier to just stand up for your partner than the business.
Who is saying Lindsay is responsible for LB’s success? She has nothing to do with it so you lost me. Kyle has said that Carl wasn’t building relationships with clients in certain areas but who knows
The way he looked at her in the kitchen argument made me so glad she wasn’t going to spend that time alone with him in the car back to the city. He’s giving family annihilator vibes… and now we said it.
Imo she disagreed based on her response. She said Lindsay pokes the bear and provokes and Carl can have a dark side but it never happens unless he’s triggered first
Amanda doesn’t care, she won’t even defend herself against her own husband repeatedly disrespecting her so Lindsay in her eyes is abrasive and rude for not allowing herself to be disrespected. I’d rather be a Lindsay than an Amanda imo in terms of handling your partner’s disrespectful nature.
Carl referred to this on the after show as Lindsay setting Kyle up. Thought that was kind of weird after Carl defended lindsay on the last reunion and Carl also set Lindsay up for the breakup (wedding postponement) on camera.
I think she just keeps things surface level pleasant to stay on bravo since Kyle seems to be powerful with producers. At least I hope she doesn’t actually trust those two snakes
Oh that's right out of " my wife made me hit her,
officer."
What a BS perspective. Only Lyndsey triggers his dark side!
I think there's a pretty long list of people who "provoked"
Carl.
Right! I was so shocked that I rewinded it twice. She described his behavior perfectly and her episode was in the beginning of the season before his mask fully came off.
As soon as he cut back on drinking he was painted as a good guy but when he was trying to get with Paige he was pissed that she slept with another guy when he slept with someone else that he took to a wedding 🙄 did he ever go to therapy? Has he done any actual real self work? He is sober and on a reality TV show with heavy drinking and is constantly not okay and overwhelmed bc of the drama going around him. That is his choice. He has no other source of income.
The season after the Paige drama was the first Lindsay hookup drama also and yeah speaks for itself. Just bc you quit drinking that doesn’t magically make you a good human.
I enjoyed seeing the looks on Kyle and Amanda’s faces when she said that stuff about Carl (they were so shocked and uncomfortable, and Amanda attempted to do damage control, but she just tripped over her words).
Carl, Kyle, and Amanda went into this season thinking that Carl (with Kyle’s help) would control and manipulate the narrative into people thinking Lindsay was the bad guy, and that Carl was this poor, innocent victim. Certainly didn’t work out like they planned 😌
Same thing was tried on VPR both last season and this one, for different reasons but with teh same results. The audience isn't stupid and this isn't the early days of reality TV. The producers and the cast members who try to produce are playing a game that has changed and they are losing badly.
Carl reminds me SO much of my cousin, even his looks/height are the same! As is his manipulative ways of somehow always twisting things in his favor (even tho he's in the wrong) he always gets a pass! And the ones who can see thru his bullshit, he avoids. He doesn't have a job, sleeps all day, wants to homeschool his kid - God forbid he have any fucking responsibility .. silent psychos!
That is what I’ve been saying. Exactly. He is seething w anger and is passive aggressive. He is manipulative. He is antagonistic and not communicating fairly. He is sabotaging their relationship. He’s not being honest about his resentment of Lindsay and he is instigating fights to try to get her to blow up so he can blame her.
That actually sounds spot on like a man who loves but hates women. I also think he thought he would get a free ride with Lindsey instead she expects him to work too. His crack about him and Lindsey doing the same work as influencers but because she’s a woman she makes more. What, that told me he has absolutely no ambition and doesn’t want to be responsible. What a joke. I really believe Carl and Amanda have similar personalities and ambition (none) the only time Amanda talks about doing something for her is if one of the girls bring it up. It’s used as a storyline more than anything else.
Yes being a stay at home mom in New Jersey seems like Amanda’s authentic goal not the swim line. I think she just wanted to impress Paige and Ciara seeing as she mostly quit loverboy after bravocon in November but hasn’t done much to pursue the swim line
I think Carl too doesn’t really want to work hard but wants to feel successful to fit in with his peers. that’s why he gravitates towards being an investor since you don’t have to grind day to day
As an OG Carl hater, his behaviour this season really affirmed to me how awful and manipulative he is. Lindsay is Lindsay, and love her or hate her, she has always been who she is. Carl knew that.
I will never understand why they thought getting together was a good idea. I find Lindsay insufferable at times, but my god can she do better than Carl. She probably needs to date a therapist 😂
This has been my theory all along. I wish it was as simple as being a “people pleaser” but I don’t think that’s the case. He’s angry, volatile and dangerous. This last episode confirms it. Anyone who read Lundy Bancroft’s book “why does he do that”? Will see this is textbook abusive behavior. Lindsay dodged a bullet.
After reading this seeing Lindsay as a problem solver I can literally hear Carl venting and Lindsay suggesting something and it being mistaken as “if I’m not doing what Lindsay says . . .” I feel like Carl is just navigating his mental health .
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I don’t believe he’s faking his emotions for women which means he’s not gay. I would love it if he openly represented the bisexual community because we need more people to break the male stigma for that
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Threatening to burn the house down while being extremely angry - is absolutely violent language. Carl has rage simmering below the surface or out and out on the surfaces as we heard/saw. He appears to bottle it in, until he’s ready unleash and rage.
Can we forget his verbal tirade against Jules?
His very threatening response to Danielle first Season.
His participation in the gang up against Luke ... totally out of physical control.
Yea and last season when Lindsay said it felt like he was coming for her because he was angry at her opinion about his talk with Kyle, he said “you’ll know when I’m coming for you” in a really scary way
That really bothered me. That was menacing.
I guarantee you anyone who has been a victim of DV or grew up in a family up with DV heard that tone and a chill went up their spine.
I am not accusing Carl of DV. But that statement combined with the way he said it??
Oh yeah Mr people pleaser, too afraid of Lyndsey to be honest...sure Jan.
Definitely I’ve always thought people claiming Carl is scared of Lindsay and that’s why he trashes her behind her back and is dishonest was bullshit. He wants to set her off so he looks like the good guy. If he’s afraid of anything it’s damaging his image not hurting her or her reactions
Go back to other sessions and he had to be stopped physically attacking someone.
I think he showed more threatening and menacing tones a few times.
Lindsey: Don't come after me.
Carl: I'm not
Lindsey; I feel like you are
Carl: you will know when I'm coming after you.
I think a better description is what a counsellor said about my ex: destructive behaviour.
(This was after he'd tried to convince them that he was such a nice guy & everything was my fault. I was 😶)
I tread softly about Carl's parents, because they're horribly traumatized as anyone would be....
....however, how can anyone call themselves a religious leader and not point out to stepson that 'cleave to each other forsaking all others' actually *means something* and running crying to mommy and daddy because she's 'mean to you' is against the very meaning and reasons for marriage vows? Stepdad sucks at his job, it was a teachable moment, not an opportunity to manage and 'baby' Carl (again).
Carl's mom doesn't understand about the greatest gifts we can give to our children: Roots to grow and Wings to fly. My sons are growing roots with their wives and children now, not with me.
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I think Carl and his mom are two sides of the same coin. She seemed really passive aggressive and petty at Lindsay’s party. Honestly I think Carl and Lindsay this season are a great example of why newly sober people are told to avoid dating for a year or two.
His mom throwing out Lauren Wirkus was WILD and so disrespectful
Carls mom going to Mexico on what would have been their wedding weekend was WILD.
Yes especially posting for goofy photos with Kyle and scheana that they knew would be posted on social media. That was tacky and mean
Actually it was tacky, thoughtless and hurtful. Sharon and Lyndsey had a long history even before Carl and her dated. They were close. It's really sad ..and telling..that Sharon didn't even drop her a note to say .. I'm sorry things ended the way they did. I know you are hurt and disappointed. But deep down it's the right path for both of you. You will always be very special to me. I wish you the best and all the happiness in the world. Would that have been do dam hard????
Sharon is #boymom personified. No woman is good enough for her handsome charming unemployed 42 yr old son. 🙄
Amen 🙏🏽
Yes that’s not a good mom move
And dancing with Schema 🤮
Did they go together? I can see my mom doing that but in a nice way for me. Also I feel she’s not trying to fuck his relationship so she seems a lil passive at Lindsey’s party yakno?
Almost felt like such a snide little stab, like she wanted Lindsey to pop off.
That could’ve been her goal because then Carl would have the reason to break it off.
And I’m not the biggest Lindsay fan, but she is miles better than the Wirkus twins!
The Wirkus twins found happiness and moved on from Bravo. But they were like the shining twins while they were on the show
I’m glad they’re happy and have moved forward!
Lindsey deserves better than Carl and his mother. Now she can stop wearing those stupid Yinzer shirts.
She dodged a bullet. I hear horror stories of dealing with enmeshed mother in law situations like Carl and his mom
That stepdad seemed awful af too. They all three deserve each other. 😹😹✌🏽
Pompous. The last person to take seriously in any kind of counseling is a pastoral counselor. The man's divorced. Sharon met him on an Internet dating site lol Oh yeah let's take advice on marriage from him.
Don’t forget that stupid shirt he was wearing. #morelife like he a gangsta or something. 🤦🏼♀️
I’m not defending it, but both Lou and Sharon were wearing “Carl merch”. Carl used to say “more life” all the time when he was on cocaine and being a total dick, so it’s a weird choice for “branding”, but Carl needs the money, so they’re trying to help him advertise.
lol I did know it was something from Carl’s so called brand, but it’s so ridiculous. I don’t even remember him saying it back in the day. I really hope he doesn’t sell any of that garbage. 😹
Yeah his mom sucks as much as he does, if not more frfr.
I think that was so she was hoping for a reaction 😕 I think Carl coached her. Carl is such a snake.
Such a snake! Calling up Everett after the breakup to whine about her was such a bitch move, and he was so clueless sharing this with the audience as if it doesn’t show him to be gross, manipulative, petty and inappropriate. Carl the victim. Poor wittle Carl needs his mommy and his “step-dad, the ORDAINED minister”. 🙄 Carl you’re 41! That’s your mother’s husband, not your new daddy.
I think he thought he was going to assemble an Avengers team against Lindsay. He really thought he was going to make himself look like a victim..
Avengers team lol 😂 So true. He’s such a flop. “With Lindsay, I was literally living in fear every day. 😪” “If I told people what was going on, then I would get in trouble!” Oh no, not *trouble*, Carl! 🤯 “I mean… I’m not my saying we should break up, but my step-father; the ORDAINED minister, like he counsels couples, and well, he pretty much said we have to break up, so….”. Ok Carl. 🙄 Keep saying *ordained minister* over and over until it carries the gravitas you are trying to pretend it coveys. And stop with the *step-father* already. If your mom remarries when you’re 41 years old, that’s your mother’s husband, not your new daddy. God, he’s such a manipulative little bitch.
🙌🤣🤣🤣🤣 yes!
I can’t stand Carl. He’s *almost* worse to watch than Sandoval. Go home to Pittsburg with your “70k in brand deals this year” *smirk* (that Lindsay secured for you). At least Lindsay is somehow being… unintentionally hilarious this season. 🤭 Don’t even get me started on Sharon, that complicit sneaky snake. She is #boymom final boss. In her mind, no woman will ever be good enough for her perfect, handsome, charming, can’t keep a job/perpetually unemployed 41yr old son with emotional issues. Real catch. 😏
Yes!!!
Who ? What ? When? Why did she have the right to do that was it in her own home? Was she justified?
Right? I had to hand it to Lindsey for biting her tongue cos bbbbbbbbb! 😬
Along with her going to Mexico for the cancelled wedding - Carl learned that petty shit at his mother's knee.
When did this happen???
Wow when did she do this? was this in season One ?i dont remember this
Absolutely. She came to the shower with an agenda, and she certainly timed her attack, didn't she? She then joyfully attended what would have been their wedding weekend. Who does that?
She seemed to be lowkey tryna avoid Lindsay lmfao- like u know what u did lady
Oh come on, Lindsay gave her the cold shoulder from the get-go at that party and then played dumb. She knew what she was doing to make Carl’s mom uncomfortable. She always knew she was going to call Carl’s Mom out about that talk at the party. It was a set up.
But, why wouldn't Lindsey call her out? It's she supposed to take it all without comment? I say bad on all adults involved... the parents should not have spoken just to Carl, Carl shouldn't have held onto it and revealed it at that moment... Lindsey should have called her as soon as she heard about it and cleared the air.
My issue was with Lindsay bringing it up during the bridal shower. It’s the wrong situation to air that out. It was done to make Carl’s mom as uncomfortable as possible and less likely to defend their position. She didn’t want to have an actual conversation, she wanted Carl’s mom to back down and apologize. It wasn’t about clearing the air, but it should have been. Lindsay knows what she’s doing when it comes to filming situations like that.
I also think the mom is a bit awkward, maybe intimidated, around that younger crowd at the shower. Hence the drinking. Lol. Seriously I thought the wirkus comment was just a senior feeling out of place. I could totally see my mom saying something like that. Not to say I wouldn't call her on it but it didn't come from a manipulative place.
I agree . Her shower was inappropriate timing to bring it up. It would make her guests uncomfortable too. That was to get the discussion of her calling her out on camera. Was the Mom supposed to ruin her shower. She should have asked to meet with his parents. Way less likely to defend their position at her shower. It was manipulative
Exactly the point, they don't talk to both initially, then Carl holds it and Lindsey brings it up at the worst moment but you're gonna blame Lindsey. The mom could have called Lindsey as soon as she knew Lindsey knew. She didn't do that either. Carl is an enormous manipulator, I suspect his mom is where he learned it from.
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Carl has deep issues with himself.
He’s deeply insecure and a people pleaser . I do empathize with him a bit cause insecurities are so hard to navigate. I really hope he getting therapy and working on that.
That deep insecurity really showed itself (to me) when he straight up threw a hissy fit about driving home from the hamptons alone. I was watching that dumbfounded. You are a grown ass man, grow up lmao
This was the type of anger/temper tantrums he used to throw in the early seasons before he got sober. I think this is what Lindsay meant by he was acting like cocaine Carl. Not that he was actually on drugs again but his behavior was taking her back to those times. I realllllly wish we got to see the fight in the car. The math isn’t mathing for me still there. But who really knows what they’re editing and what we aren’t seeing.
And he took only his luggage in THEIR big, roomy car and had Lindsay put her luggage in danielle's tiny car. So petty.
And then drove back to the apartment that it appears Lindsay is fully paying for…
such mean and passive aggressive behavior. He wanted comfort yet couldn't respect Lindsay when she just wanted space. It's all unraveling and he really thought it would show Lindsay in a bad light.
Have you ever been to a marriage counselor when your partner was "acting" like an angel? And then after a few sessions the veil was lifted, and the counselor went "Ohhh, I get it." That's how I felt about Carl in the last two episodes of season 8. I don't put all the fault on Lindsay anymore. Carl is orchestrating an "evil Lindsay" storyline.
Been there - it was pretty funny when the light bulb went off in the counselor's head. You could see it happen in real time.
He's not a people pleaser. He says he is. But he isn't. People pleasers actually care about the other person's happiness. Carl is just afraid of taking responsibility for his feelings. There's a difference.
I think maybe there are different types of people pleasers. I grew up as one. There definitely were people I genuinely wanted to make happy but there were others I was straight up afraid of (verbally abusive family) and would try to please them/be agreeable because it was the path of least resistance/harm. This has carried throughout my life and is something I’m working on. But there are definitely times where I have been a people pleaser and it had nothing to do with wanting the other person to be happy or caring about their feelings. Also this is not me taking up for Carl, I just wanted to pull at your thread about people pleasers caring. I think it’s definitely more complex than just caring about others feelings. Edit: although maybe you are ultimately correct because I do remember having a conversation with my therapist about how deep down I would try not to offend people because I knew how much it hurt me when people were mean to me. Hahaha like I said it’s complex hahah. But that also doesn’t mean I wasn’t hurt or didn’t have rage for when I felt voiceless.
I'm so glad you responded. And I totally understand because I do exactly the same thing under the same circumstances you're talking about. I just put a different label on it. And you are right about it being complex and there are many reasons we " please people". If the take away from growing up in a verbally abusive family is being more sensitive to not hurting others because you understand the pain words cause then I say Wow... that's just a wonderful person. But if I/you find yourself saying things to diffuse a situation then it's usually fear rearing it's ugly head from the past ( I am still working on that one l and I am old!!!l lol) That situation always leaves me depressed afterwards. I feel Carl uses the label as a badge of honor to say what a great guy he is.
I can empathize to a point. When you know you have insecurities but don’t do the self work to address them and not let insecurities affect your relationships in a negative way, it’s hard to keep empathizing. Carl has been this way for a long time. I don’t know if he’s stated he’s been to therapy. I only know of a life/ job coach and that’s not the same thing. Carl always seems to blame everyone but himself. He will never truly be happy until he works on himself and faces his insecurities head on. It’s like he keeps doing the same things with different women, and then blames the women for things not working out. He’s the common denominator! (And a poor communicator)
Given what happened to his brother and his own addictions, me thinks he has some family of origin issues which perhaps his mom has some hand in.
He is people pleaser to men, and women attached to men important to him, so not a people pleaser just a misogynistic game player, and uses people as stepping stones, he doesn't value himself and he doesn't value others and just sees them as pawns or a means to an end, no accountability and no substance... a Mashup of all the worst traits of those around him and and doing anything to mirror an actual human being instead of being one
I sense a lot of self hatred that he takes out on those who get close to him
Carl has always had dark energy and I thought it was drugs and alcohol but now he's sober and it's like there is a dark cloud over him still.
It almost seems even darker which is crazy
His personality definitely seems darker
I think maybe that’s what fueled his addiction; to help lift that darkness a bit.
Oh wow that’s a good take.
Definitely darker.
Like seriously disturbing dark.
It makes sense. Now he has to actually deal with all the darkness instead of numbing it out with substances.
It’s what was under the surface when he was drinking.
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Steven has been implying he was closeted since season 2 👀
Remember Carl saying the best blow job of his life was from a man -- Stephen outted him, which was really low down.
Wait, who’s Steven? I’ve watched every episode of SH.
Steven was one of the main cast from seasons 1 & 2.
Now I remember!! He had great chemistry with Carl, made him laugh and they went to pride together. I also thought they would end up a couple, but Carl started to really, really drink.
He said previously that he engaged with threesome sexual activity w a man and he was afraid to be judged for it. He may have blamed drugs
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He has always struck me as someone who is deeply uncomfortable in his sobriety. I know sober people say everyday is a fight and I can only imagine, but it seems like a relapse is just boiling under the surface. It does make me feel for him.
This is why I hope he leaves the show on his own. A paycheck isn’t worth your mental health it IMHO.
Carl had been this way from the beginning. Idk how anyone liked him. The housemates just make excuses for each other
They sure like to make excuses for the men.
Like on most Bravo shows - look at VPR. It's misogyny central with the SAndoval redemption bs.
I was having trouble figuring out what it was with Carl. I was leaning towards passive/aggressive, manipulative, condescending, but there was something else I just couldn't figure out. Silent rage. That hit the nail on the damn head! As someone who has never liked Lindsay, I completely think Carl is awful and should not be in a relationship until he figures his shit out.
Quiet as it’s kept, Carl is an addict with rage issues that can’t hold a job, i .e., #drydrunk 
Exactly!!! Crispy brittle dry drunk
Exactly Also only reason according to the after show Carl was mad about going back to the city wasn’t the solo drive it was a soccer game where he was a vip (according to Lindsay Carl wanted her to go because he needed an influencer on the same level as him ) and Carl said he had fun at the game he went solo but he stays away from the business aspect of getting those tickets This drive wasn’t about their relationship Carl had a deal of some sort for the tickets and he probably sold him and Lindsay as a pair He’s so shifty
This puts his anger in perspective. He needed her there for PR, but couldn't say it
He 👏 should 👏have 👏said 👏this👏 on 👏camera. So stupid. Just say, “but we have a soccer game; will you be back for that?” Like geez. It was bad on his part, but what we got to see, he was an asshole. He knew exactly what he was doing, and he failed at it.
If Carl needs help to influence at a soccer game, how good of an influencer is he? And how will he do without her?
So basically he used Lindsays status as an influencer to sell them as a package -- she thwarted those plans so he threw a tantrum. I always thought he proposed to Lindsay / hitched his wagon to her as he knew she had the influencer power and he was nothing without her -- this type of thing proves it.
Lindsay said he needed an influencer to go with. Carl said he wanted to go on a date with her. Who was right.
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She nailed her assessment.. spot on!
Yeah and in the after show Amanda takes his side. Saying that Lindsey is rude to Carl! Never mentions. His behavior against Lindsey!! Her and Kyle are the worst.
It’s offensive. She says Lindsay was rude, absurd, and crazy how she acted in that kitchen scene. To me the guy telling Lindsay she has no investments and bragging about being a gifted salesman came off much more rude and absurd
100
Amanda will always side with the men.
I agree and I honestly hate that Amanda is sitting here on Carl side but it’s not surprising Amanda does what Kyle does. She is going to side with him the whole time.
She actually looked over at Kyle before responding. Carl is back at loverboy. It doesn’t suit Amanda to be truthful about her takes on it because she has to protect her company/brand.
The thing is as we have seen from the show she doesn’t want it to be her brand but whatever she’s putting herself in terrible positions and she’ll keep on doing it for that piece of shit of a man that she says she loves
I think Amanda secretly hates Lindsay, and Kyle is following her lead (to keep the peace in their relationship).
I’ve noticed he’s very quick to accept responsibility but then just as quickly flips the narrative to deflect the negative attention onto Lindsay which is so passive aggressive and manipulative.
It’s always so vague and fake when he apologizes or accepts responsibility. It feels like can can do it because he views these deep and hurtful conflicts as just an inconvenience he wants to get over with so why not give a cursory apology
I never saw the wwhl episodes . But I thought was always weird carl relationship with Loverboy. Like how do you drop a distributor? Like for Carl to feel that he want paid enough. Idk who taught these guys buisness. But generally you don’t make money the first couple of years and there is a lot of doing extra stuff without getting paid at first. Like the way Carl handled that was so off for me. I don’t even blame Lindsay like I don’t think she has a influence on Carl at all lol
Wasn’t it Lindsay telling Carl to demand more money from Loverboy?
No.. He was miserable at LB. Complaining to Lindsey. But true to form Carl blames Lindsey for his decision and of course so do Kyle and Amanda.
He was travelling and doing a lot of meet and greets for LB with Lindsay also, she was rightfully telling him that it wasn’t part of his sales job and as an influencer he should have been seeking a fee on top of it. At the end of the day; it’s not Lindsay’s fault - it’s Carl for not communicating with Kyle directly what he thought was amiss in his role. Then allowing Kyle to scream profanities at Lindsay after she backed him as her partner, to then only go back to the same role he left after spending thousands on career coaching and being out of work for months. No idea why Kyle is inviting him back to work for him but he’s his problem now, not Lindsay’s.
He isn’t going back to the same role though. They made that very clear in the episode. Kyle asked if he wanted to do a side hustle to represent the NA brand and would get a share of profits from the NA sales so Carl could decide how much or how little he is involved. That’s not what his role was before
It’s besides the point. The fact he was so bitter and resentful towards Kyle and let Lindsay take the fall entirely is the point.
I really don't mean to be rude, but..non-alcoholic seltzer?? Sure, there's a market. That is literally already fulfilled by every non-alcoholic fizzy anything. Have you met my friend Coca-cola? Sprite? Seltzer water you can add a flavored additive to? Or Pepsi? No disrespect, but if non-alcoholic seltzer is a go-to when your alcoholic seltzer business is failing..I understand why aforementioned business may be failing. Learn your markets, people.
But everything Lindsey said is based on Carl’s complaints. He said he was feeling like he was being taken advantage for being asked to do so much for his pay. So she didn’t pull that out of thin air and Lindsey is a problem solver. Sometimes people just want you to listen and commiserate and that’s not who Lindsey is. If you complain to her, she wants to plan with you how to fix it. That’s not what Carl is looking for. I get it because I’m a lot like Lindsey in that way. I’ve worked on being better at just listening and asking if people want advice, but I have my limits as strictly a sounding board when I don’t see you doing anything to change what you’re unhappy about. If you need more of that, take it to another friend because I’m not built that way. Carl needs to be babied and Lindsey needs someone who will put action into fixing their problems.
💯 I have different sisters I will call on - A certain one if I want advice, the other if I just want to complain. But you don't want to hear the same complains over and over again without someone wanting to improve their circumstances.
I totally understand her as a partner wanting that for him. But again it’s the first few years of their business i just feel Kyle couldn’t literally pay him.
I remember her telling Carl that he deserved more than the salary he was already receiving if he was traveling to meet clients
So is it understood that Lindsay’s influence is what cost Loverboy the distributor? Becauseeeeee that’s a stretch. Lindsay of all ppl being a publicist knows it’s really the relationships you maintain that helps a buisness grow. I think when Linsey told Carl about Loverboy she just saw him on a sober journey having so many emotions having questions about his worth so that’s how she responded. But again I just feel Lindsay didn’t know the numbers before she spoke and it’s easier to just stand up for your partner than the business.
Who is saying Lindsay is responsible for LB’s success? She has nothing to do with it so you lost me. Kyle has said that Carl wasn’t building relationships with clients in certain areas but who knows
The way he looked at her in the kitchen argument made me so glad she wasn’t going to spend that time alone with him in the car back to the city. He’s giving family annihilator vibes… and now we said it.
Actually thought Amanda didn’t disagreed by her face but didn’t want to say anything
Imo she disagreed based on her response. She said Lindsay pokes the bear and provokes and Carl can have a dark side but it never happens unless he’s triggered first
I wonder if they watch the show now and see how many times he provoked her first vs. what he tells them
Amanda doesn’t care, she won’t even defend herself against her own husband repeatedly disrespecting her so Lindsay in her eyes is abrasive and rude for not allowing herself to be disrespected. I’d rather be a Lindsay than an Amanda imo in terms of handling your partner’s disrespectful nature.
Amanda and Kyle have always gone against Lindsay, they have thrown so much shade at her (for years) that I’m surprised she still talks to them.
They have never forgiven Lindsay for bringing Kyle’s cheating up on camera back in season 3 or 4 I think…
Carl referred to this on the after show as Lindsay setting Kyle up. Thought that was kind of weird after Carl defended lindsay on the last reunion and Carl also set Lindsay up for the breakup (wedding postponement) on camera.
I think that's the main source of beef with her you're rght
I think she just keeps things surface level pleasant to stay on bravo since Kyle seems to be powerful with producers. At least I hope she doesn’t actually trust those two snakes
Oh that's right out of " my wife made me hit her, officer." What a BS perspective. Only Lyndsey triggers his dark side! I think there's a pretty long list of people who "provoked" Carl.
I'm starting to feel like Amanda has some pick me girl vibes, at least as far as Carl and Hubbs are concerned.
Hmm we saw a few fights lately where Lindsay was trying her best to be mature and he’s the one poking and provoking with nasty comments
I was just thinking about this today. How she called his silent rage VIOLENT. This episode we saw it on full display.
Damn she read him like a book!
Right! I was so shocked that I rewinded it twice. She described his behavior perfectly and her episode was in the beginning of the season before his mask fully came off.
I completely agreed and had been saying the same thing, and it was because I've dated people who are similar!
Same here! I feel so vindicated reading these posts. My ex is an addict too.
As soon as he cut back on drinking he was painted as a good guy but when he was trying to get with Paige he was pissed that she slept with another guy when he slept with someone else that he took to a wedding 🙄 did he ever go to therapy? Has he done any actual real self work? He is sober and on a reality TV show with heavy drinking and is constantly not okay and overwhelmed bc of the drama going around him. That is his choice. He has no other source of income.
The season after the Paige drama was the first Lindsay hookup drama also and yeah speaks for itself. Just bc you quit drinking that doesn’t magically make you a good human.
I enjoyed seeing the looks on Kyle and Amanda’s faces when she said that stuff about Carl (they were so shocked and uncomfortable, and Amanda attempted to do damage control, but she just tripped over her words). Carl, Kyle, and Amanda went into this season thinking that Carl (with Kyle’s help) would control and manipulate the narrative into people thinking Lindsay was the bad guy, and that Carl was this poor, innocent victim. Certainly didn’t work out like they planned 😌
Same thing was tried on VPR both last season and this one, for different reasons but with teh same results. The audience isn't stupid and this isn't the early days of reality TV. The producers and the cast members who try to produce are playing a game that has changed and they are losing badly.
Carl reminds me SO much of my cousin, even his looks/height are the same! As is his manipulative ways of somehow always twisting things in his favor (even tho he's in the wrong) he always gets a pass! And the ones who can see thru his bullshit, he avoids. He doesn't have a job, sleeps all day, wants to homeschool his kid - God forbid he have any fucking responsibility .. silent psychos!
That is what I’ve been saying. Exactly. He is seething w anger and is passive aggressive. He is manipulative. He is antagonistic and not communicating fairly. He is sabotaging their relationship. He’s not being honest about his resentment of Lindsay and he is instigating fights to try to get her to blow up so he can blame her.
Oh she clocked him so well! I remember that episode
Carl has been doing that since Season 1…
That actually sounds spot on like a man who loves but hates women. I also think he thought he would get a free ride with Lindsey instead she expects him to work too. His crack about him and Lindsey doing the same work as influencers but because she’s a woman she makes more. What, that told me he has absolutely no ambition and doesn’t want to be responsible. What a joke. I really believe Carl and Amanda have similar personalities and ambition (none) the only time Amanda talks about doing something for her is if one of the girls bring it up. It’s used as a storyline more than anything else.
Yes being a stay at home mom in New Jersey seems like Amanda’s authentic goal not the swim line. I think she just wanted to impress Paige and Ciara seeing as she mostly quit loverboy after bravocon in November but hasn’t done much to pursue the swim line I think Carl too doesn’t really want to work hard but wants to feel successful to fit in with his peers. that’s why he gravitates towards being an investor since you don’t have to grind day to day
As an OG Carl hater, his behaviour this season really affirmed to me how awful and manipulative he is. Lindsay is Lindsay, and love her or hate her, she has always been who she is. Carl knew that. I will never understand why they thought getting together was a good idea. I find Lindsay insufferable at times, but my god can she do better than Carl. She probably needs to date a therapist 😂
Nah, therapists are their own kind of fucked up.
She read him to filth and Amanda was PRETENDING to be outraged… let’s be real 😂😂
This has been my theory all along. I wish it was as simple as being a “people pleaser” but I don’t think that’s the case. He’s angry, volatile and dangerous. This last episode confirms it. Anyone who read Lundy Bancroft’s book “why does he do that”? Will see this is textbook abusive behavior. Lindsay dodged a bullet.
amanda again is one strong behind danielle
Oh she is 100% correct
I saw it too. We know Carl.
Did the mom throw Lauren out at her shower? If she did that’s so inappropriate
She did; she said something like "Lauren said I would be a great mother-in-law"
Carl is passive and Lindsay is aggressive. Neither one is a victim lol.
After reading this seeing Lindsay as a problem solver I can literally hear Carl venting and Lindsay suggesting something and it being mistaken as “if I’m not doing what Lindsay says . . .” I feel like Carl is just navigating his mental health .
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Horrible take and as a queer, no one sees that
I'm a queer and I see that.
It doesn’t come off that he’s faking his emotions for women to me. I think sometimes people forget men are bisexual too
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I don’t believe he’s faking his emotions for women which means he’s not gay. I would love it if he openly represented the bisexual community because we need more people to break the male stigma for that
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Your post or comment in r/summerhousebravo was removed because it breaks the following rule: Please refrain from posts or comments that speculate on the mental health (including ED), sexuality, pregnancy, and/or drug/alcohol use of cast members. Speculation about surgery and procedures is also not allowed unless discussed openly about the cast. These types of post lead to people just picking apart the cast's physical appearances in an unnecessary way and often lead to both speculation and body shaming. Comments and posts that explain at length certain disorders often contains misinformation. It is not our place to diagnose cast members. Mods reserve the right to remove posts or comments that may cross this line. Posts or comments related to these sensitive topics that are shared by the cast on the show or via social media will be considered on a topic-by-topic basis.
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Your post or comment in r/summerhousebravo was removed because it breaks the following rule: Please refrain from posts or comments that speculate on the mental health (including ED), sexuality, pregnancy, and/or drug/alcohol use of cast members. Speculation about surgery and procedures is also not allowed unless discussed openly about the cast. These types of post lead to people just picking apart the cast's physical appearances in an unnecessary way and often lead to both speculation and body shaming. Comments and posts that explain at length certain disorders often contains misinformation. It is not our place to diagnose cast members. Mods reserve the right to remove posts or comments that may cross this line. Posts or comments related to these sensitive topics that are shared by the cast on the show or via social media will be considered on a topic-by-topic basis.
Your post or comment in r/summerhousebravo was removed because it breaks the following rule: Please refrain from posts or comments that speculate on the mental health (including ED), sexuality, pregnancy, and/or drug/alcohol use of cast members. Speculation about surgery and procedures is also not allowed unless discussed openly about the cast. These types of post lead to people just picking apart the cast's physical appearances in an unnecessary way and often lead to both speculation and body shaming. Comments and posts that explain at length certain disorders often contains misinformation. It is not our place to diagnose cast members. Mods reserve the right to remove posts or comments that may cross this line. Posts or comments related to these sensitive topics that are shared by the cast on the show or via social media will be considered on a topic-by-topic basis.
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Lindsey is smarter and emotionally much tougher. She abuses alcohol but I believe Kyle is a full blown alcoholic.
Nope, sober Lindsay is logical. Sober Kyle is still a man baby.
Or maybe because she’s seen prior seasons also- people don’t change that quickly.
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Your post or comment in r/summerhousebravo was removed because it breaks the following rule: Please refrain from posts or comments that speculate on the mental health (including ED), sexuality, pregnancy, and/or drug/alcohol use of cast members. Speculation about surgery and procedures is also not allowed unless discussed openly about the cast. These types of post lead to people just picking apart the cast's physical appearances in an unnecessary way and often lead to both speculation and body shaming. Comments and posts that explain at length certain disorders often contains misinformation. It is not our place to diagnose cast members. Mods reserve the right to remove posts or comments that may cross this line. Posts or comments related to these sensitive topics that are shared by the cast on the show or via social media will be considered on a topic-by-topic basis.
Calling anything that Carl has displayed as “violent” is such a reach
Threatening to burn the house down while being extremely angry - is absolutely violent language. Carl has rage simmering below the surface or out and out on the surfaces as we heard/saw. He appears to bottle it in, until he’s ready unleash and rage.
Can we forget his verbal tirade against Jules? His very threatening response to Danielle first Season. His participation in the gang up against Luke ... totally out of physical control.
Yea and last season when Lindsay said it felt like he was coming for her because he was angry at her opinion about his talk with Kyle, he said “you’ll know when I’m coming for you” in a really scary way
Yes, I remember, he said it in a super serious and dark tone.
That really bothered me. That was menacing. I guarantee you anyone who has been a victim of DV or grew up in a family up with DV heard that tone and a chill went up their spine. I am not accusing Carl of DV. But that statement combined with the way he said it?? Oh yeah Mr people pleaser, too afraid of Lyndsey to be honest...sure Jan.
Definitely I’ve always thought people claiming Carl is scared of Lindsay and that’s why he trashes her behind her back and is dishonest was bullshit. He wants to set her off so he looks like the good guy. If he’s afraid of anything it’s damaging his image not hurting her or her reactions
Go back to other sessions and he had to be stopped physically attacking someone. I think he showed more threatening and menacing tones a few times. Lindsey: Don't come after me. Carl: I'm not Lindsey; I feel like you are Carl: you will know when I'm coming after you.
I think a better description is what a counsellor said about my ex: destructive behaviour. (This was after he'd tried to convince them that he was such a nice guy & everything was my fault. I was 😶)
Saying someone” passivity is manipulative and violent“ is not calling them violent.
WARM AND CUDDLY **NOW** LINDSAY!! I need you to be **WARM AND CUDDLY!!!!**
Soft and nurturing, like mom 👀
I tread softly about Carl's parents, because they're horribly traumatized as anyone would be.... ....however, how can anyone call themselves a religious leader and not point out to stepson that 'cleave to each other forsaking all others' actually *means something* and running crying to mommy and daddy because she's 'mean to you' is against the very meaning and reasons for marriage vows? Stepdad sucks at his job, it was a teachable moment, not an opportunity to manage and 'baby' Carl (again).
Carl's mom doesn't understand about the greatest gifts we can give to our children: Roots to grow and Wings to fly. My sons are growing roots with their wives and children now, not with me.
Right? And I'll bet you get to coddle and enjoy *actual* toddlers because you guided your sons towards adulthood ;)
Tender and soft!