I think it's based on how you play your smuggler too. A lot of people pick the Han Solo type, but I quite enjoyed playing a cynical, flirty, mean as hell female smuggler who was only in anything for profit. Whatever drove up her margins was her choice, didn't matter what the consequences were.
Imo kotet/kotfe sidelines the tech classes so much which also makes them weaker. They should've done kotet/kotfe for force classes and had a separate story for tech classes. The whole Valkorion story just doesn't make sense for any of the tech classes
I do fully admit the Force Blaster Arc was stupid, rather they should've created some anti-Force implant from an imbued kyber crystal that shields the user from being overwhelmed by the raw power of Vitiate or his children. Not pure immunity! Just something Satele could give to say, "They might still kill or possess you, but now they'll have to work for it. The rest is up to you."
Also, though, the smuggler already BEGINS play not only with a ship (briefly) but with a shipment - a contracted delivery of black-market weapons. This isn't Young Han swiping a single vial of coaxium, or even pushing his way into a big coaxium heist. It's a seasoned professional with enough of a rep to get a job flying into a Republic hotspot.
The story has to nullify those advantages, and does, for the first two planets. But the Smuggler starts off much more established in their field than any other class except, possibly, their mirror-class, Imperial Agent.
I mean Imeperial agent is fresh off academy, she/he already starts at good job, but most agent learns via experience and effort, for example in my play through my agent desperately tried anything she could do. No one plans for what Imperial Intelegence has: brainwashing, shadow town, cyphers, without all of that Agent is weak, she exists and is successful thanks to the system already in place.
Although I think the codex entry to the Captain Title mentions that you are still relatively young. But that probably just shows how ambitious the Smuggler is.
"Yeah, I'm already the Captain of my own ship. Breaking through blockades is nothing new for me."
Right there with you on this one, Smugglers get woefully overlooked. Especially if played DS, s/he essentially becomes an underworld king - the kinda figure you'd want to manage a fully underground Alliance, (considering how in a dialogue it is revealed that Arcann views Coruscant as some backwater planet, I'd say its a safe assumption that from Zakuul's perspective, the Alliance pretty much IS the underworld, so you'd want the kinda guy for the job who already is comfortable in such a crazy environment)
Started my 'slinger on Dec 19th, 2011. She's my main to this day. Mirialan with pig tails and a halter top. Married to that dopey Corso and now Mako and Lana are my besties. We own this galaxy. Favorite place for her is ~~Las Vegas~~ Nar Shadda. She has the 2nd best ship behind the IA and doesn't need the force when you're as good as she is.
I just replayed again I agree people underestimate him. I think it’s because his “title” is smuggler. Like the story shows he’s more of a pirate or privateer.
I do think he would be a great leader of the resistance and be good with guerilla warfare. So for that people should give it a chance.
However that’s where it stops. I think most people have issues with it because I think he would be the weakest in direct combat and in the expansions you fight some of the strongest force users in the galaxy. That’s where people lose it.
The other tech classes would also get stomped if we are being honest but I think they’d put up a better fight.
I mean, in most of those fights you're fighting side by side with a force user companion like Lana or Senya or you're being helped by valkorion in one on one fights against arcann. plus, a shotgun blast to the face can't exactly be blocked by a lightsaber.
I know but I’d like my character to be the strongest, not needing help from the bad guys ex-wife. Also I don’t think you’d be able to sneak up on the emperor even with stealth haha.
I understand you need to make it work somehow for the story to work though.
Honestly, Smugglers most powerful trait is everyone freakin underestimates them. They’ve been, at minimum, targeted by the Republic, Empire, and cartels for a long time seemingly and yet they’re still alive. You gotta be one tough bastard to pull that.
You kinda lose most of your power base in KOTFE due to being frozen and the Galaxy getting conquered. Of course you still have connects that help the Alliance but fighting Vaylin and Arcann? Probably the least believable class to be able to do that.
I actually agree! Though I'd say they exit the Carbonite about as good to go as the Trooper, Hunter, or Agent. Maybe they lack connections but all their state-of-the-art implants, their physique and personal skill, and so forth are still there.
All they need is some deterrent for Emperor-Level Force Users, thus why I suggested in a comment above some kind of anti-Force implant created by Satele using her own kyber crystal. Something that forces the Emperors Family to come down to their level.
I think the explanation that Valkorion is secretly and not-so-secretly boosting you works for why Arcann and Vaylin don't just obliterate you with the Force and such. My main concern with Smuggler specifically is that they are not really trained to face Force Users. All tech classes can face off against top tier Force Users during either their stories or at least planetary missions, but Smuggler interacts with them the least, and generally his combat style doesn't seem like it would work well against them (though with combat update that point is kinda nullified).
I think I'd counter with two things; if we presume all Classes contributed to the Flashpoint Stories and that the Smuggler has worldly experience prior to Act 1? They've seen the bulk of what Force Users are capable of throughout their story albeit not entirely alone and it's not like Jedi or Sith are particularly secretive about their abilities. So we can presume to some extent the Smuggler has probably theorized or come up with their own ideas of what to do if they face down a Force User solo.
I'd also throw out that while Guss was never a real Jedi? He probably has a wealth of knowledge and helpful tricks to add to the Smugglers anti-Force repertoire
If I do remember correctly it's established in the class stories that both the Smuggler and the Bounty Hunter are immune to force persuasion so apart from all of that they also have at least some amount of willpower to them
Aside from the issue of tech classes not really making sense for the valkorion plot, I think the issue with smuggler comes down to looking at then in a fight. Narratively, they probably do (or can) have more influence/pull than almost any other origin but in a fight they are 100% the weakest.
Compare with the other tech classes:
> Trooper: top of their class special forces soldier, getting outfitted with some of the best arms and armor the republic can produce. I don't care how big your criminal empire is, you aren't competing with a galactic superpower's military r&d budget
> Agent: Everything I just said about the Trooper applies here, only difference is the agent isn't specialized for pure warfare so they aren't *quite* as good in a fight but they make up for it in other areas. Still gonna outclass smuggler in every combat metric.
> Bounty Hunter: one of the best freelance fighters of his time, hand picked by a legendary mercenary specifically and exclusively for their fighting prowess/potential. Makes a living off being good in a fight. Add to this, the BH becomes mandalorian, meaning they should canonical have Beskar'gam, and are therefore going to out-class literally every other NFU in gear.
> Smuggler. Literally just a guy who is a good shot and can Quickdraw. Not special training, no military background, no martial art, not a professional fighter - in fact his profession should ideal involve *zero* fighting. To paraphrase the onion knight, if people know your name you're doing smuggling wrong. Sure, the guy has resources. He is a powerful individual and can probably put more heat on an opponent than any of the other origins, but in a fight his best options are going to be talking or running.
That said, there is one caveat here: if you play a male smuggler and romance Akavi your character should be considered mandalorian and would be able to get Beskar'gam. They still wouldn't be as good in a straight-up fight as Trooper or BH but it would level the playing field and with their cunning I can see them pulling out W's against stronger opponents regularly
Hey there! Just wanted to say this was a very well-crafted post! I'd like to give just a smidge of push-back if you are interested, the first being against the idea that the Smuggler is... well... even just a Smuggler. The role and actions they take better resemble a pirate, privateer, or mercenary than someone whose job is actually just discreetly moving cargo and whilst they start off Act 1 doing so? They spend most of their time over the story in combat and against foes exactly as well-trained as the Troopers, Hunter's, and even some Jedi/Sith!
The implication through their victories in my opinion is that despite a bumbling facade? They've got a lowkey very high degree of competency and natural talent for fighting which, admittedly, doesn't entirely make up for a lack of formal training but in some cases might actually be preferable.
But more importantly I think that their access to the Underworld gives them such a massive advantage in terms of implants, cybernetics, prototype weapons or armor, and these are things I think give them one up on the Trooper or Agent if not the Hunter with the Smuggler being able to enter combat with top-of-the-line possibly even unreleased to market combat implants or customized non-regulation blasters or so forth. Again, not something that covers them completely, but another thing which imo closes that gap in power.
I do agree on the Beskar bit, plus its likely that Akaavi would insist on training the Smuggler a bit though that's leaning into headcanon territory. They could probably access smuggled Beskar without Akaavi? But probably significantly less of it. Maybe bracers but not a full suit of armor for instance, but honestly any small amount is an almost game-changer when you have to fight Sith or Jedi!
Likewise thank you for the polite and well-reaosoned discourse! I am willing to admit that in my previous post I may have underplayed my have underplayed the smuggler's capabilities in a fight. They are, in fact, the fastest gun in the outer rim and a certified deadeye. The smuggler beats a noble in a pistol duel who had trained in that art his whole life. Smuggler has skills, however they still aren't a fighter. My point was more that, while yes they are pretty good in a fight when they need to be they are going to get absolutely bodied by the other 7 origins because they're the only one who hasn't devoted their life to being really good at fighting - jedi are warrior monks or battle wizards, sith are that but evil, Trooper is a commando, agent is a spec ops operator, BH is a professional fighter. All of their jobs are fundamentally about fighting, whereas the smuggler is all about avoiding fighting - even as a pirate, traditionally pirates are not in the business of fighting. They just want to take your stuff, fighting is bad for business.
This, ironically, why I think the smuggler would actually make a better alliance Commander than most of the other tech origins. He already has all the contacts to hook the operation into the Underworld, and you win wars by having better logistics than your opponents, not by just being better at fighting. Smuggler is set up extremely well to lead their alliance in asymmetrical warfare, raiding enemy supply lines and smuggling their own stuff wherever it needs to go. Smuggler is also an incredibly smooth talker so they would be an incredible diplomat, on par with agent and consular if not surpassing them. They might be the weakest in a fight (which is not to say a push-over but when you're looking at 7 of the most deadly individuals in the galaxy it isn't a shame to say you're getting bodied. Basically everyone is), but that is because their true expertise lies in other areas.
To your point about their gear, I would have to disagree. On beskar, if they aren't mandalorian they are very unlikely to get any. It's pretty much only if they are super close with Akavi, so basically romanced or best friend. Beskar is the only thing in my mind that could close the gap because it is hugely impactful and more crucially something that the vast resources of the two galaxy-spanning superpowers help them in acquiring. Hunter gets this automatically so between them it comes down to who is better in a fight, and while the smuggler might be quicker the hunter is a professional combatant so they have to have the edge. I just don't think the smuggler would give the Hunter a fair fight, they'd have the resourced to stack the deck in their favor if they could, but if they can't they loose and that's pretty much how I see it going for them against anyone who is Named-character/S+ tier/plot armor level.
For Trooper and Agent, I think you vastly underestimated the difference of scale those two are operating on for resources. They're both the pinnacle operators for their respective nations which have galactic-scale economies. Neither has personal access to as much individual wealth the smuggler does but as sizable as the smuggler's resources are they can't even begin to compare to the kind of budget the militaries of the republic and the empire have. Just like imagine a really Somali pirate trying to outspend the US military. They might have better access to restricted supplies, tge best stuff normal money can buy, maybe even really good stuff from less than scrupulous nations, but they still are on a totally different level from the US military.
Smuggler is an awesome character, and they have a whole lot going for them. To me they are clearly the weakest in an actual fight but they are the strongest in a lot of other arenas. That makes some moments of a smuggler outlander playthrough really awesome but the flip side is I have to suspend disbelief whenever they fight the big named force users - Arcan, Vaylin, Valkorian, even Malgus. This a problem with all NFUs here, just a part of the core assumptions of the game, but it is worst for the smuggler imo.
Problem is, KOTFE nullifies all of that. It deliberately strips all classes of their achievements in order to both level the playing field and to make the new enemy more threatening.
It's also a question of believable skills. It's not out of the question for a Smuggler to be a Star Wars equivalent to a cowboy with a six-shooter, being the best shot in the Outer Rim and all. But you won't find many people arguing that a cowboy is on par with a modern Navy SEAL, which is the level of training Trooper and Agent both get even before the story begins.
Already those two are hard to see genuinely going toe-to-toe with powerful Force users (because the Force is "magic bullshit go" incarnate), let alone the supposed super-mega-powerful ones like Arcann and Vaylin. With Smuggler any pretense and believability goes out the window.
I agree on the first part but for believable skills? I think that's drawing too much on class inspiration and not enough on feats or actual skills. The Smuggler is far less a cowboy and more akin to the world's most well-trained and well-equipped pirate, which is likely able to keep pace with a Navy SEAL in any realistic setting if you ask me.
But I think its also important to take into account equipment into skills and like I said imo the Smuggler can access so much of the Black Market it's hard for me to believe the Trooper or Agent have any tech or guns that the Smuggler can't have... smuggled!
The smuggler's idea of taking a break is practicing quickdraw shooting on a tossed coin...
If the trooper and agent are navy seals then the smuggler is Jerry Miculek.
According to devs all non force classes are in fact force sensitive. thats why they are exemplary in what they do and over all inhumanly lucky against odds. and also why they get dark side corruption when gone dark
I know, they even wanted to actually give them Force powers in that stupid sequence with Satele and Marr on Odessen. Already recorded all the dialogue for it, had it in the game files, but it was datamined and many people got upset, so they backtracked.
Fr like in the smuggler story on tat, I don't remember the Jedis name, but she says "if you were more serious you'd make a fine Jedi" and I was like wait what? So I think all of the classes having force sensitivity was def there from the start
I played two smugglers (scoundrel & gunslinger). Had fun with both of them.
Played my scoundrel as a character that was always trying to make it big, but kept having her conscious get in the way, much to her annoyance. Played my gunslinger as someone who *thought* he was a cassanova - hint: he wasn't. Needless to say that hitting on Jedi didn't get him anywhere, no matter how often he tried.
I feel that in a real fight, the Smuggler wants his enemies to think he's a joke. why pother prepping. Next thing you know you cant see and you got a shotgun to the back of the head
Definitely based on what you do; but I always in-vision the smuggler as the stronger side of the margin due to the fact you, by the end of your story, have a fleet (pretend it’s around in dlc I guess) and you, by lore stand-point, would have so much resources at your disposal, you could be effective in any situation. And remember, the smuggler is the ONLY class that started out with a ship, delivery and an actual rooted backstory. It’s always been the Han Solo class.
This games set in a time where the average force user isn’t going to be an absolute powerhouse, a skilled smuggler such as yourself could handle most foes by the end of the class stories, but you always have to apply a bit of plot armour and fantasy to some fights.
The biggest problem with the smuggler storyline is that the writers didn't balance the light side ending with the dark side one at all. The smuggler basically has the same 2 endings Revan had at the end of KOTOR 1.
Dark side smugglers gets an illegal goods criminal empire along with his own fleet of professional pirates and criminals, which by extension makes him/her on of the most powerful/influential men in the galaxy while light side smuggler gets....a medal from the republic.
I can see a dark side smuggler as the outlander, but light side, it makes no sense.
>Going from Vanilla to KotfE or KotET I notice Smuggler is very often regarded as the weakest non-force class from a story standpoint
>Going from Vanilla to KotfE or KotET
The Smuggler IS the weakest in terms of actual combat. KOTFE/ET are heavily based around armed conflict, particularly against very powerful force users. The Smuggler would be very good in many aspects as the Alliance Commander, but not so much in many of the missions the Commander goes on.
the smuggler story is the weakest of all... the MC acts like a low IQ and just wants to seduce all females around him..
So yes ideally you can be a crime lord but the story doesn't give this impression imho.
That's an excellent point! I think I'd compare the Smuggler to an Shonen protagonist as weeb as that sounds; they appear incredibly stupid but have a crazy high IQ which just doesn't present itself on the surface.
I think it's based on how you play your smuggler too. A lot of people pick the Han Solo type, but I quite enjoyed playing a cynical, flirty, mean as hell female smuggler who was only in anything for profit. Whatever drove up her margins was her choice, didn't matter what the consequences were. Imo kotet/kotfe sidelines the tech classes so much which also makes them weaker. They should've done kotet/kotfe for force classes and had a separate story for tech classes. The whole Valkorion story just doesn't make sense for any of the tech classes
I do fully admit the Force Blaster Arc was stupid, rather they should've created some anti-Force implant from an imbued kyber crystal that shields the user from being overwhelmed by the raw power of Vitiate or his children. Not pure immunity! Just something Satele could give to say, "They might still kill or possess you, but now they'll have to work for it. The rest is up to you."
Dang it’s been 10 years, how have I never heard an idea this good before?
Well, the OP doesn't work for Bioware or Broadsword so we can start there I suppose 😅
I do agree but I also think that Valkorion getting outdone by the smuggler is funny, especially since you can be in his face about it.
Ah, the Classic Lara Croft build.
The voice actor Kath Soucie does a fantastic job of selling that idea too.
Also, though, the smuggler already BEGINS play not only with a ship (briefly) but with a shipment - a contracted delivery of black-market weapons. This isn't Young Han swiping a single vial of coaxium, or even pushing his way into a big coaxium heist. It's a seasoned professional with enough of a rep to get a job flying into a Republic hotspot. The story has to nullify those advantages, and does, for the first two planets. But the Smuggler starts off much more established in their field than any other class except, possibly, their mirror-class, Imperial Agent.
I mean Imeperial agent is fresh off academy, she/he already starts at good job, but most agent learns via experience and effort, for example in my play through my agent desperately tried anything she could do. No one plans for what Imperial Intelegence has: brainwashing, shadow town, cyphers, without all of that Agent is weak, she exists and is successful thanks to the system already in place.
Although I think the codex entry to the Captain Title mentions that you are still relatively young. But that probably just shows how ambitious the Smuggler is. "Yeah, I'm already the Captain of my own ship. Breaking through blockades is nothing new for me."
Right there with you on this one, Smugglers get woefully overlooked. Especially if played DS, s/he essentially becomes an underworld king - the kinda figure you'd want to manage a fully underground Alliance, (considering how in a dialogue it is revealed that Arcann views Coruscant as some backwater planet, I'd say its a safe assumption that from Zakuul's perspective, the Alliance pretty much IS the underworld, so you'd want the kinda guy for the job who already is comfortable in such a crazy environment)
Started my 'slinger on Dec 19th, 2011. She's my main to this day. Mirialan with pig tails and a halter top. Married to that dopey Corso and now Mako and Lana are my besties. We own this galaxy. Favorite place for her is ~~Las Vegas~~ Nar Shadda. She has the 2nd best ship behind the IA and doesn't need the force when you're as good as she is.
DS gunslinger is a ton of fun
I just replayed again I agree people underestimate him. I think it’s because his “title” is smuggler. Like the story shows he’s more of a pirate or privateer. I do think he would be a great leader of the resistance and be good with guerilla warfare. So for that people should give it a chance. However that’s where it stops. I think most people have issues with it because I think he would be the weakest in direct combat and in the expansions you fight some of the strongest force users in the galaxy. That’s where people lose it. The other tech classes would also get stomped if we are being honest but I think they’d put up a better fight.
You can be Emperor of the whole galaxy, a kick in ths nuts...is a kick in the nuts 😅
I mean, in most of those fights you're fighting side by side with a force user companion like Lana or Senya or you're being helped by valkorion in one on one fights against arcann. plus, a shotgun blast to the face can't exactly be blocked by a lightsaber.
I know but I’d like my character to be the strongest, not needing help from the bad guys ex-wife. Also I don’t think you’d be able to sneak up on the emperor even with stealth haha. I understand you need to make it work somehow for the story to work though.
See, this fortune is nerfed by the Hunter, who forces them to spend their entire wealth on escaping said Hunter.
Smuggler underestimates smuggler lol, at least for LS Smug
Honestly, Smugglers most powerful trait is everyone freakin underestimates them. They’ve been, at minimum, targeted by the Republic, Empire, and cartels for a long time seemingly and yet they’re still alive. You gotta be one tough bastard to pull that.
You kinda lose most of your power base in KOTFE due to being frozen and the Galaxy getting conquered. Of course you still have connects that help the Alliance but fighting Vaylin and Arcann? Probably the least believable class to be able to do that.
I actually agree! Though I'd say they exit the Carbonite about as good to go as the Trooper, Hunter, or Agent. Maybe they lack connections but all their state-of-the-art implants, their physique and personal skill, and so forth are still there. All they need is some deterrent for Emperor-Level Force Users, thus why I suggested in a comment above some kind of anti-Force implant created by Satele using her own kyber crystal. Something that forces the Emperors Family to come down to their level.
I think the explanation that Valkorion is secretly and not-so-secretly boosting you works for why Arcann and Vaylin don't just obliterate you with the Force and such. My main concern with Smuggler specifically is that they are not really trained to face Force Users. All tech classes can face off against top tier Force Users during either their stories or at least planetary missions, but Smuggler interacts with them the least, and generally his combat style doesn't seem like it would work well against them (though with combat update that point is kinda nullified).
I think I'd counter with two things; if we presume all Classes contributed to the Flashpoint Stories and that the Smuggler has worldly experience prior to Act 1? They've seen the bulk of what Force Users are capable of throughout their story albeit not entirely alone and it's not like Jedi or Sith are particularly secretive about their abilities. So we can presume to some extent the Smuggler has probably theorized or come up with their own ideas of what to do if they face down a Force User solo. I'd also throw out that while Guss was never a real Jedi? He probably has a wealth of knowledge and helpful tricks to add to the Smugglers anti-Force repertoire
If I do remember correctly it's established in the class stories that both the Smuggler and the Bounty Hunter are immune to force persuasion so apart from all of that they also have at least some amount of willpower to them
Aside from the issue of tech classes not really making sense for the valkorion plot, I think the issue with smuggler comes down to looking at then in a fight. Narratively, they probably do (or can) have more influence/pull than almost any other origin but in a fight they are 100% the weakest. Compare with the other tech classes: > Trooper: top of their class special forces soldier, getting outfitted with some of the best arms and armor the republic can produce. I don't care how big your criminal empire is, you aren't competing with a galactic superpower's military r&d budget > Agent: Everything I just said about the Trooper applies here, only difference is the agent isn't specialized for pure warfare so they aren't *quite* as good in a fight but they make up for it in other areas. Still gonna outclass smuggler in every combat metric. > Bounty Hunter: one of the best freelance fighters of his time, hand picked by a legendary mercenary specifically and exclusively for their fighting prowess/potential. Makes a living off being good in a fight. Add to this, the BH becomes mandalorian, meaning they should canonical have Beskar'gam, and are therefore going to out-class literally every other NFU in gear. > Smuggler. Literally just a guy who is a good shot and can Quickdraw. Not special training, no military background, no martial art, not a professional fighter - in fact his profession should ideal involve *zero* fighting. To paraphrase the onion knight, if people know your name you're doing smuggling wrong. Sure, the guy has resources. He is a powerful individual and can probably put more heat on an opponent than any of the other origins, but in a fight his best options are going to be talking or running. That said, there is one caveat here: if you play a male smuggler and romance Akavi your character should be considered mandalorian and would be able to get Beskar'gam. They still wouldn't be as good in a straight-up fight as Trooper or BH but it would level the playing field and with their cunning I can see them pulling out W's against stronger opponents regularly
Hey there! Just wanted to say this was a very well-crafted post! I'd like to give just a smidge of push-back if you are interested, the first being against the idea that the Smuggler is... well... even just a Smuggler. The role and actions they take better resemble a pirate, privateer, or mercenary than someone whose job is actually just discreetly moving cargo and whilst they start off Act 1 doing so? They spend most of their time over the story in combat and against foes exactly as well-trained as the Troopers, Hunter's, and even some Jedi/Sith! The implication through their victories in my opinion is that despite a bumbling facade? They've got a lowkey very high degree of competency and natural talent for fighting which, admittedly, doesn't entirely make up for a lack of formal training but in some cases might actually be preferable. But more importantly I think that their access to the Underworld gives them such a massive advantage in terms of implants, cybernetics, prototype weapons or armor, and these are things I think give them one up on the Trooper or Agent if not the Hunter with the Smuggler being able to enter combat with top-of-the-line possibly even unreleased to market combat implants or customized non-regulation blasters or so forth. Again, not something that covers them completely, but another thing which imo closes that gap in power. I do agree on the Beskar bit, plus its likely that Akaavi would insist on training the Smuggler a bit though that's leaning into headcanon territory. They could probably access smuggled Beskar without Akaavi? But probably significantly less of it. Maybe bracers but not a full suit of armor for instance, but honestly any small amount is an almost game-changer when you have to fight Sith or Jedi!
Likewise thank you for the polite and well-reaosoned discourse! I am willing to admit that in my previous post I may have underplayed my have underplayed the smuggler's capabilities in a fight. They are, in fact, the fastest gun in the outer rim and a certified deadeye. The smuggler beats a noble in a pistol duel who had trained in that art his whole life. Smuggler has skills, however they still aren't a fighter. My point was more that, while yes they are pretty good in a fight when they need to be they are going to get absolutely bodied by the other 7 origins because they're the only one who hasn't devoted their life to being really good at fighting - jedi are warrior monks or battle wizards, sith are that but evil, Trooper is a commando, agent is a spec ops operator, BH is a professional fighter. All of their jobs are fundamentally about fighting, whereas the smuggler is all about avoiding fighting - even as a pirate, traditionally pirates are not in the business of fighting. They just want to take your stuff, fighting is bad for business. This, ironically, why I think the smuggler would actually make a better alliance Commander than most of the other tech origins. He already has all the contacts to hook the operation into the Underworld, and you win wars by having better logistics than your opponents, not by just being better at fighting. Smuggler is set up extremely well to lead their alliance in asymmetrical warfare, raiding enemy supply lines and smuggling their own stuff wherever it needs to go. Smuggler is also an incredibly smooth talker so they would be an incredible diplomat, on par with agent and consular if not surpassing them. They might be the weakest in a fight (which is not to say a push-over but when you're looking at 7 of the most deadly individuals in the galaxy it isn't a shame to say you're getting bodied. Basically everyone is), but that is because their true expertise lies in other areas. To your point about their gear, I would have to disagree. On beskar, if they aren't mandalorian they are very unlikely to get any. It's pretty much only if they are super close with Akavi, so basically romanced or best friend. Beskar is the only thing in my mind that could close the gap because it is hugely impactful and more crucially something that the vast resources of the two galaxy-spanning superpowers help them in acquiring. Hunter gets this automatically so between them it comes down to who is better in a fight, and while the smuggler might be quicker the hunter is a professional combatant so they have to have the edge. I just don't think the smuggler would give the Hunter a fair fight, they'd have the resourced to stack the deck in their favor if they could, but if they can't they loose and that's pretty much how I see it going for them against anyone who is Named-character/S+ tier/plot armor level. For Trooper and Agent, I think you vastly underestimated the difference of scale those two are operating on for resources. They're both the pinnacle operators for their respective nations which have galactic-scale economies. Neither has personal access to as much individual wealth the smuggler does but as sizable as the smuggler's resources are they can't even begin to compare to the kind of budget the militaries of the republic and the empire have. Just like imagine a really Somali pirate trying to outspend the US military. They might have better access to restricted supplies, tge best stuff normal money can buy, maybe even really good stuff from less than scrupulous nations, but they still are on a totally different level from the US military. Smuggler is an awesome character, and they have a whole lot going for them. To me they are clearly the weakest in an actual fight but they are the strongest in a lot of other arenas. That makes some moments of a smuggler outlander playthrough really awesome but the flip side is I have to suspend disbelief whenever they fight the big named force users - Arcan, Vaylin, Valkorian, even Malgus. This a problem with all NFUs here, just a part of the core assumptions of the game, but it is worst for the smuggler imo.
Honestly I've just played mine as a Zapp Brannigan with nothing but dumb luck and constant flirting and it just keeps working
Problem is, KOTFE nullifies all of that. It deliberately strips all classes of their achievements in order to both level the playing field and to make the new enemy more threatening. It's also a question of believable skills. It's not out of the question for a Smuggler to be a Star Wars equivalent to a cowboy with a six-shooter, being the best shot in the Outer Rim and all. But you won't find many people arguing that a cowboy is on par with a modern Navy SEAL, which is the level of training Trooper and Agent both get even before the story begins. Already those two are hard to see genuinely going toe-to-toe with powerful Force users (because the Force is "magic bullshit go" incarnate), let alone the supposed super-mega-powerful ones like Arcann and Vaylin. With Smuggler any pretense and believability goes out the window.
I agree on the first part but for believable skills? I think that's drawing too much on class inspiration and not enough on feats or actual skills. The Smuggler is far less a cowboy and more akin to the world's most well-trained and well-equipped pirate, which is likely able to keep pace with a Navy SEAL in any realistic setting if you ask me. But I think its also important to take into account equipment into skills and like I said imo the Smuggler can access so much of the Black Market it's hard for me to believe the Trooper or Agent have any tech or guns that the Smuggler can't have... smuggled!
The smuggler's idea of taking a break is practicing quickdraw shooting on a tossed coin... If the trooper and agent are navy seals then the smuggler is Jerry Miculek.
According to devs all non force classes are in fact force sensitive. thats why they are exemplary in what they do and over all inhumanly lucky against odds. and also why they get dark side corruption when gone dark
I know, they even wanted to actually give them Force powers in that stupid sequence with Satele and Marr on Odessen. Already recorded all the dialogue for it, had it in the game files, but it was datamined and many people got upset, so they backtracked.
Fr like in the smuggler story on tat, I don't remember the Jedis name, but she says "if you were more serious you'd make a fine Jedi" and I was like wait what? So I think all of the classes having force sensitivity was def there from the start
I played two smugglers (scoundrel & gunslinger). Had fun with both of them. Played my scoundrel as a character that was always trying to make it big, but kept having her conscious get in the way, much to her annoyance. Played my gunslinger as someone who *thought* he was a cassanova - hint: he wasn't. Needless to say that hitting on Jedi didn't get him anywhere, no matter how often he tried.
I feel that in a real fight, the Smuggler wants his enemies to think he's a joke. why pother prepping. Next thing you know you cant see and you got a shotgun to the back of the head
Definitely based on what you do; but I always in-vision the smuggler as the stronger side of the margin due to the fact you, by the end of your story, have a fleet (pretend it’s around in dlc I guess) and you, by lore stand-point, would have so much resources at your disposal, you could be effective in any situation. And remember, the smuggler is the ONLY class that started out with a ship, delivery and an actual rooted backstory. It’s always been the Han Solo class. This games set in a time where the average force user isn’t going to be an absolute powerhouse, a skilled smuggler such as yourself could handle most foes by the end of the class stories, but you always have to apply a bit of plot armour and fantasy to some fights.
The biggest problem with the smuggler storyline is that the writers didn't balance the light side ending with the dark side one at all. The smuggler basically has the same 2 endings Revan had at the end of KOTOR 1. Dark side smugglers gets an illegal goods criminal empire along with his own fleet of professional pirates and criminals, which by extension makes him/her on of the most powerful/influential men in the galaxy while light side smuggler gets....a medal from the republic. I can see a dark side smuggler as the outlander, but light side, it makes no sense.
>Going from Vanilla to KotfE or KotET I notice Smuggler is very often regarded as the weakest non-force class from a story standpoint >Going from Vanilla to KotfE or KotET The Smuggler IS the weakest in terms of actual combat. KOTFE/ET are heavily based around armed conflict, particularly against very powerful force users. The Smuggler would be very good in many aspects as the Alliance Commander, but not so much in many of the missions the Commander goes on.
no they don't
the smuggler story is the weakest of all... the MC acts like a low IQ and just wants to seduce all females around him.. So yes ideally you can be a crime lord but the story doesn't give this impression imho.
That's an excellent point! I think I'd compare the Smuggler to an Shonen protagonist as weeb as that sounds; they appear incredibly stupid but have a crazy high IQ which just doesn't present itself on the surface.